บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Ep. 46 - Building from the Back Door (BOGOTÁ)

and to the 79 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,220 sort of desire or lens or perspective. 80 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:57,220 And so I really wanted to kind of, you know, 81 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,120 be frontal about that and kind of situate ourselves there. 82 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,580 I think in the word millennial or in how I connect to the 83 00:04:05,580 --> 00:04:07,340 word, I think I, you know, 84 00:04:07,340 --> 00:04:10,720 see myself as a sort of new generation of artists, 85 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,180 a new generation of thinkers, of creators, 86 00:04:14,180 --> 00:04:16,560 where for me it's really not just about the work, 87 00:04:16,660 --> 00:04:17,339 but the how. 88 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:19,839 So not just what are we creating? 89 00:04:20,060 --> 00:04:20,800 What is the work about? 90 00:04:20,899 --> 00:04:21,839 What is the art about? 91 00:04:21,959 --> 00:04:23,880 But like how is it being made? 92 00:04:24,460 --> 00:04:25,700 I think for me, you know, 93 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,740 the choreographic practice is something that really 94 00:04:27,740 --> 00:04:31,700 requires a lot of reconsideration and deconstruction. 95 00:04:31,900 --> 00:04:35,900 And I would go as far as saying like decolonializing the 96 00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:36,680 practice itself. 97 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,200 I think it's a practice that has certain hierarchies 98 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:41,860 embedded to it, certain ways of seeing. 99 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:46,000 And I and what we're trying to do with APNA is sort of take 100 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,240 the responsibility to reflect on what does it mean to do 101 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:50,040 choreography today? 102 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,400 What does it mean to gather people, to lead people, 103 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:52,980 to build these things? 104 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:53,580 shows? 105 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,240 What do the shows talk about? 106 00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:57,660 How do they talk about them? 107 00:04:57,660 --> 00:04:59,340 What is at stake inside of a work? 108 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,300 And then, more importantly, like, 109 00:05:03,420 --> 00:05:05,760 how do these people come together in community to build 110 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:06,500 these pieces? 111 00:05:08,380 --> 00:05:10,840 I think what we're trying or what I've been trying to do 112 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:12,260 with an AP&A and, you know, 113 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,440 first it started as something utopic and a goal and little 114 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,040 by little, it's reframed itself. 115 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,020 But it was really important for me to kind of approach 116 00:05:20,020 --> 00:05:24,140 choreographic works from a different lens. 117 00:05:24,340 --> 00:05:24,460 I mean, 118 00:05:24,460 --> 00:05:26,480 I used to be a professional dancer and I think it was 119 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:34,040 important to both bring Bring my own values as somebody 120 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,240 who's Latin American Colombian who has indigenous Latin 121 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,160 American Backgrounds to bring some of those values into not 122 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,900 just how we make her work, but what is a company today? 123 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:48,260 so everything from bylaws internal communication things 124 00:05:48,260 --> 00:05:51,560 that try to kind of make us reframe and rethink what does 125 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:56,160 Company and leadership mean as well Obviously these things 126 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,960 are not always easy because having a company There are 127 00:05:59,960 --> 00:06:03,640 certain structures framework systems that you operate under 128 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,160 But I think for me that millennial aspect is sort of giving 129 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,720 space for those internal tensions to exist and also to 130 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,540 reflect on You know, 131 00:06:12,540 --> 00:06:15,780 what is the future of choreography from today forward? 132 00:06:15,780 --> 00:06:17,660 What do we want to build as a community? 133 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,180 what do we want to build as a practice for each other for 134 00:06:21,180 --> 00:06:24,020 Publix and Yeah, 135 00:06:24,020 --> 00:06:26,880 and and kind of what that looks like so it's it's really an 136 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,760 amalgamation of a lot of those questions and reflections I 137 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,260 think that are simply situated in that word Millennial is 138 00:06:33,260 --> 00:06:36,200 like it's today meaning we're looking at the past the 139 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,620 history of Choreography in the past the history of 140 00:06:38,620 --> 00:06:41,640 companies in the past and trying to reimagine like what do 141 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:42,720 we want this to look like? 142 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:43,500 In the future. 143 00:06:43,620 --> 00:06:44,380 Yeah, I get it. 144 00:06:44,420 --> 00:06:46,960 So excited hearing you speak about this and I remember in 145 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,680 one of our first conversations Almost exactly a year ago at 146 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,160 par cordonce in Montreal we we thought we had a 147 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,260 conversation and you spoke a bit about this as well like 148 00:06:55,260 --> 00:06:58,440 how you're How your company is working and how you're 149 00:06:58,440 --> 00:06:59,100 thinking about? 150 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,220 democratizing the choreographic process and as you 151 00:07:03,220 --> 00:07:09,000 referenced you've danced with ballet BC and other Other 152 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,600 high caliber technical Great. 153 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:13,440 Thank you. 154 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,000 Yes Company is with you know, 155 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:22,300 like a more classic hierarchical environment It's quite, 156

00:07:22,380 --> 00:07:25,800 you know common as you're mentioning that These companies 157 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:26,920 operate in a certain way. 158 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,260 So I would love to just hear a little bit more about 159 00:07:30,260 --> 00:07:32,520 democratizing the choreographic process like, 160 00:07:32,860 --> 00:07:35,860 how does that differ from the norm? 161 00:07:36,340 --> 00:07:38,080 And what is the impact on the work itself? 162 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:38,620 So maybe like, 163 00:07:38,620 --> 00:07:40,440 what does that look like in the studio and a rehearsal 164 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:40,880 process? 165 00:07:41,220 --> 00:07:45,280 And is that translated into the finished work? 166 00:07:46,660 --> 00:07:48,780 Yeah, I mean, I think for us that kind of, 167 00:07:48,780 --> 00:07:50,640 it's a bit twofold. 168 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,780 The notion of democratizing is kind of both internally for 169 00:07:53,780 --> 00:07:54,400 us as a team, 170 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,900 but also externally in terms of community and our public. 171 00:07:58,740 --> 00:07:59,480 For me, 172 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,540 my kind of first goal is how do I de-center the choreographic 173 00:08:04,540 --> 00:08:04,960 role? 174 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,820 There's a really amazing book that I forget her name. 175 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,260 She's a Spanish author and she talked about everything that 176 00:08:11,260 --> 00:08:13,520 is the sort of tension between the periphery and the 177 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:13,860 center. 178 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:14,640 So, 179 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,760 embodiments of the peripheries versus embodiments of the 180 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,860 center and the sort of boundaries that lie between the 181 00:08:22,860 --> 00:08:23,540 periphery and the center. 182 00:08:23,700 --> 00:08:26,120 And I think that's just always something that's kind of, 183 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:26,160 you know, you know, 184 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,980 as someone who's immigrated Latin American in Canada, 185 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:31,500 it's tensions that I've always had. 186 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:32,720 And so, yeah, 187 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,620 I think I became really curious about how do I de-center 188 00:08:35,620 --> 00:08:36,919 the choreographic role? 189 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,880 I think the choreographer or choreography is sort of this 190 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,660 like role that is often put on a pedestal as something that 191 00:08:45,660 --> 00:08:47,280 is mysterious and amazing. 192 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:47,700 It's like, 193 00:08:47,740 --> 00:08:50,340 no choreography is just a lot of trial and error and a lot 194 00:08:50,340 --> 00:08:50,860 of failure. 195 00:08:50,940 --> 00:08:53,780 And you happened to choose some ideas that you feel like 196 00:08:53,780 --> 00:08:56,220 works in community with your people and you put a

show, 197 00:08:56,340 --> 00:08:56,540 you know? 198 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:57,660 But it's often, 199 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,700 very often do we talk about the fact that it's just trial 200 00:09:00,700 --> 00:09:03,720 and error and that it's not that mystic, you know, 201 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,360 or like genius. 202 00:09:06,540 --> 00:09:09,820 And so, yeah, I kind of was fascinated to like, 203 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:11,680 how do we de-center that role? 204 00:09:12,980 --> 00:09:14,960 And, you know, we're not a collective. 205 00:09:15,220 --> 00:09:16,560 AP&A is not a collective. 206 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,340 There's companies that work as in a collective 207 00:09:19,340 --> 00:09:19,920 infrastructure. 208 00:09:20,660 --> 00:09:21,920 For us, we're not a collective, 209 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,280 but I see myself sort of as like a facilitator, 210 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:26,060 team leader. 211 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:26,900 For sure, 212 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:31,180 I'm proposing a project or a concept or a research idea 213 00:09:31,180 --> 00:09:34,800 that I'm bringing to the table of my collaborators. 214 00:09:35,140 --> 00:09:37,820 But what we've realized that we've been doing kind of 215 00:09:37,820 --> 00:09:39,400 little by little through time, 216 00:09:39,950 --> 00:09:43,260 I would say is to de-center the choreographic process. 217 00:09:43,420 --> 00:09:45,900 One of the things we've done is sort of democratize the 218 00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:47,320 dramaturgical practice. 219 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:51,860 I've been working with the same sort of group of artists, 220 00:09:51,860 --> 00:09:55,100 both from designers to performers for many, many, 221 00:09:55,100 --> 00:09:55,840 many years. 222 00:09:56,500 --> 00:09:57,040 And together, 223 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,740 we've sort of been building these sort of hybrid practices 224 00:09:59,740 --> 00:10:04,940 that allow all of us to hold a dramaturgical key in what we 225 00:10:04,940 --> 00:10:08,600 do, meaning that it gives us like codes, information, 226 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,480 angles to kind of each one of us, them, 227 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,900 also to bring the sort of own agency to the work, 228 00:10:15,900 --> 00:10:17,900 questions, point of views, perspective. 229 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,940 A lot of the times, the dramaturgy, 230 00:10:22,100 --> 00:10:25,980 which is the sort of internal thread or like overstating. 231 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,980 structuring intelligence or network of information of a 232 00:10:28,980 --> 00:10:30,880 piece is really between the choreographer and the 233 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:31,580 dramaturge. 234 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,400 And we've sort of tried to sort of evenly, not evenly, 235 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,160 but like spread that reflection across the team, 236 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:42,720 meaning that we really prioritise like, you know, 237 00:10:42,820 --> 00:10:45,260 even if sometimes we're a team of 25 people, 238 00:10:45,660 --> 00:10:48,660 hour and a half conversations after rehearsal to make sure 239 00:10:48,660 --> 00:10:51,560 that this the sort of conceptual frameworks, ideas, 240 00:10:52,140 --> 00:10:54,040 political standings, questions, 241 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,520 reflections are shared across everybody and that those 242 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:57,420 conversations are, 243 00:10:57,420 --> 00:11:02,520 yeah, like approached from a very collective point of view, 244 00:11:02,820 --> 00:11:05,680 even with our designers as well. 245 00:11:05,860 --> 00:11:08,900 So I think it allows, I call it like a sort of ecosystem. 246 00:11:09,340 --> 00:11:10,580 When we create works, 247 00:11:10,580 --> 00:11:13,600 it allows the sort of ecosystem to create a work together, 248 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:15,820 specifically building Bogota. 249 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:17,440 I remember saying to the team, 250 00:11:17,700 --> 00:11:19,880 I really want to build a piece from the back door. 251 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,160 And everyone's like, what the hell does that mean? 252 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:23,140 I was like, I don't know. 253 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,040 Just metaphorically, it feels right. 254 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,780 Like, how do we build a piece from the back door? 255 00:11:28,340 --> 00:11:30,200 How do we build a piece from the bottom up? 256 00:11:30,620 --> 00:11:31,420 What does that mean? 257 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:32,500 What does that look like? 258 00:11:32,740 --> 00:11:34,980 And through two years of research, 259 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:37,740 what we did was we realized that together we were sort of 260 00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:41,180 building tools, systems, language, 261 00:11:41,620 --> 00:11:45,020 putting words onto things we've done for years to help us 262 00:11:45,020 --> 00:11:47,500 understand the sort of tools that we've been co-building 263 00:11:47,500 --> 00:11:48,060 together. 264 00:11:49,260 --> 00:11:52,020 And so in order to do that, you know, we, I mean, 265 00:11:52,060 --> 00:11:53,300 specifically for Bogota, 266 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,540 we had about two years of research before we actually 267 00:11:57,540 --> 00:12:00,760 started Bogota or knew that that's what we were doing. 268 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:01,960 It was about two years, 269 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,440 year and a half of trying to research practices and methods 270 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,680 that would allow us to be all equipped with tools that gave 271 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:15,280 the team agency and the ability for everybody to kind of 272 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:16,440 bring in their point of view. 273 00:12:17,180 --> 00:12:19,020 I don't know if you heard me what I was saying about trying 274 00:12:19,020 --> 00:12:22,380 to create a piece from the back door, from the bottom up. 275 00:12:22,580 -->

00:12:25,240 And so it was how do we, what are those tools? 276 00:12:25,420 --> 00:12:26,280 What are those practices? 277 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,920 What are those methods in order for us to build a piece 278 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,540 from the back door or from the bottom up? 279 00:12:33,460 --> 00:12:34,580 And, you know, intrinsically, 280 00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:36,980 some of that stuff may have looked like, you know, 281 00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:40,560 having like prioritizing time for conversation. 282 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,060 That's something we do a lot, 283 00:12:42,180 --> 00:12:44,420 is that the dancers and the artists, 284 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,300 performers are very much in tune in line with everything 285 00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:50,600 that's happening in the production side from conceptual 286 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,960 choices, artistic choices, materials choices. 287 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,380 There's a lot of conversations that we have as a team where 288 00:12:56,380 --> 00:12:58,540 we share, you know, what is at stake in the work? 289 00:12:59,220 --> 00:13:02,400 What are the sort of social political questions of the 290 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:02,640 work? 291 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:03,720 How do people feel? 292 00:13:04,540 --> 00:13:06,320 I think for myself as well, 293 00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:11,240 I realized that if for me to build a work and be this 294 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,380 facilitator as a team leader, 295 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,480 I also had to get really comfortable with being vulnerable. 296 00:13:16,860 --> 00:13:18,880 And I think that sometimes the choreographic role were 297 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,800 expected to be the with the answers and it's often that I 298 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,320 come to my team and I'm like guys I feel really overwhelmed 299 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,420 we're making work about the Anthropocene what does that 300 00:13:28,420 --> 00:13:31,600 mean who are we to make a work about the Anthropocene like 301 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,420 and to share those vulnerabilities um those discomforts 302 00:13:35,420 --> 00:13:38,860 those insecurities places where I don't have answers I have 303 00:13:38,860 --> 00:13:41,440 no idea so that together we can find answers and together 304 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:46,980 we can build uh doesn't have to be a homogenous point of 305 00:13:46,980 --> 00:13:49,460 view but build a common language and a common understanding 306 00:13:49,460 --> 00:13:52,880 to have a direction together that holds a space for 307 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,640 multiple points of view so yeah we've been building 308 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:02,340 different practices um we work a lot on trying to use 309 00:14:02,340 --> 00:14:07,420 language it's strange but like we work a lot with Post-its 310 00:14:07,420 --> 00:14:10,660 a lot with like not just about the creation itself but 311 00:14:10,660 -->

00:14:14,300 trying to name how we work so that we're all aware of what 312 00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:16,620 are the tools we've been developing together can we put 313 00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:20,240 language on those tools so that um Yeah, 314 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:21,300 people can feel empowered, 315 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,540 like here's this random tool that we're using, 316 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,080 but this tool means this to me, 317 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:26,500 even if that means something else. 318 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:27,760 But we have a common understanding. 319 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,920 So trying to build ways that we can share, I think, 320 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:33,140 choice making. 321 00:14:33,420 --> 00:14:34,980 Can you give an example of a tool? 322 00:14:35,980 --> 00:14:36,480 For example, 323 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:41,200 I think one thing that will help make sense of that is so I 324 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:42,700 finished my master's last year. 325 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:47,940 It's a master's in design and it's a master's that looks at 326 00:14:47,940 --> 00:14:51,880 how the choreographic practice is actually situated within 327 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,440 the everyday built environment. 328 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,620 So like for me, a chair, a handle, a car, 329 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,460 anything that is the built environment is the sort of 330 00:14:59,460 --> 00:15:02,460 choreographic proposition that our body has to interact 331 00:15:02,460 --> 00:15:02,760 with. 332 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,460 And I realize that a lot of the times our bodies are 333 00:15:06,460 --> 00:15:08,200 interacting with the built environment, 334 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,520 but they're not necessarily in a negotiation. 335 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:12,760 And so a lot of my work, choreographically, 336 00:15:12,820 --> 00:15:17,200 are these tools are about putting systems of negotiation in 337 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,300 place, which for me means the position for two people, 338 00:15:20,580 --> 00:15:21,060 two things, 339 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,620 two entities to propose their own point of view and 340 00:15:23,620 --> 00:15:25,760 actually have a sort of push and pull, 341 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,700 meaning a negotiation or where we're not just interacting 342 00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:31,660 or interpreting or receiving or reacting, 343 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:33,020 but there's actually a negotiation. 344 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:35,120 So, for example, 345 00:15:35,420 --> 00:15:38,820 some of those tools we call it like an example of a tool is 346 00:15:38,820 --> 00:15:41,300 like a container state that comes to mind. 347 00:15:42,180 --> 00:15:46,280 So where we use a lot of words in creation. 348 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,700 So, for example, the container could be a word like. 349 00:15:53,060 --> 00:15:57,140 I'm trying to find a reference like grotesque and the

state 350 00:15:57,140 --> 00:15:58,420 is maybe liberation. 351 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,640 And so the body is in a container of grotesque and the 352 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,960 individual is trying to find a state of liberation. 353 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,860 And so what we're trying to do is we kind of put these two 354 00:16:07,860 --> 00:16:11,160 words together and the artists are exploring what does it 355 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,000 mean to be in a container of grotesque and in a state of 356 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:14,460 liberation. 357 00:16:14,460 --> 00:16:18,900 That doesn't for me or we play with these sort of tools 358 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:19,860 because. 359 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,860 creates a sort of language that we understand what we're 360 00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:23,380 playing with, 361 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,720 but the interest is not the succession of that. 362 00:16:26,020 --> 00:16:30,760 It's not how well is it received, how well is it literal, 363 00:16:30,980 --> 00:16:33,400 it's just kind of being able to see a person in negotiation 364 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,500 with these two elements and the point of view that is 365 00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:36,200 brought forward. 366 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,440 We also have things like we've named it like all supports 367 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:41,800 one, 368 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,680 one supports all and those are just like tools where we 369 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,240 know okay whatever situation we're in choreographically, 370 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,540 what does it mean to be in a situation where one is 371 00:16:49,540 --> 00:16:51,260 supporting all or all are supporting one. 372 00:16:51,660 --> 00:16:58,440 So trying to name sort of bigger picture tools where it's 373 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,740 vague enough that there's room for interpretation and for a 374 00:17:01,740 --> 00:17:04,420 situation to guide what is happening in that moment, 375 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:09,000 but clear enough I think in what we're just in our own 376 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,260 comprehension together of these things so that we can move 377 00:17:11,260 --> 00:17:12,119 forward in a direction. 378 00:17:12,339 --> 00:17:15,220 So a lot of the works are built with these sort of larger 379 00:17:15,220 --> 00:17:21,220 picture tools that were yeah trying to find language for. 380 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,380 Thank you that's really fascinating to just get a little 381 00:17:25,380 --> 00:17:28,880 more clarity about what that means and it's like so rich 382 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:29,860 already with imagery. 383 00:17:30,780 --> 00:17:36,260 You describe Bogota as queering death or that one aspect of 384 00:17:36,260 --> 00:17:41,120 the work is queering death and when we met and had our 385 00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:44,800 conversation last year you also introduced me to Sarah 386 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,720 Ahmed's queer phenomenology and I'm wondering if you can 387 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,160 talk about what queer as a verb means to you, 388 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,840 to your practice, to Bogota specifically. 389 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,880 So I think in that notion of you know both also millennial 390 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,100 artists the APNA is the team is predominantly queer doesn't 391 00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:06,260 mean everybody has to be your is queer but there's a big 392 00:18:06,260 --> 00:18:09,720 part of from the people that work in production to 393 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,020 designers to the performers to our grand writers are people 394 00:18:14,020 --> 00:18:18,420 who identify as queer which for me means without defining 395 00:18:18,420 --> 00:18:20,620 it because we always say like who are we to define what 396 00:18:20,620 --> 00:18:23,040 queer it is what is a queer aesthetic that's not the goal 397 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,340 like it's queer it for us is more of a lens a point of view 398 00:18:26,340 --> 00:18:30,680 like glasses that you put on that that you see the world in 399 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,080 a certain way so definitely we use a lot the term queering 400 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,060 in APNA. 401 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,680 I was recently talking to Jonathan Sosier designer and he's 402 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,880 like you know every time I'm thinking about the sonography 403 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,520 I feel that the way I think about the materiality is how am 404 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,680 I on the edge or how am I queering this materiality what 405 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,740 does it mean to queer that materiality it's a very 406 00:18:51,740 --> 00:18:56,100 metaphorical metaphysical word but I think we try to 407 00:18:56,100 --> 00:19:01,740 approach from lighting to sonography to costumes to our 408 00:19:01,740 --> 00:19:08,080 writing like how do we queer and in Bogota specifically and 409 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,980 in the notion of like looking at death I didn't know we 410 00:19:12,980 --> 00:19:14,860 were going to make a piece about death or I didn't know 411 00:19:14,860 --> 00:19:16,640 that was going to be what I was going to propose to the 412 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,940 team but I started being fascinated with death as a notion 413 00:19:20,940 --> 00:19:24,440 of like cycles of transformation and deaths outside of 414 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,220 maybe more western notions of death like the end of life, 415 00:19:27,220 --> 00:19:30,940 but rather looking at death as like the multiple deaths and 416 00:19:30,940 --> 00:19:34,140 rebirths that we have in our lifetime, 417 00:19:34,420 --> 00:19:36,540 like in a human lifetime here on this earth, 418 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,700 and other alternative notions of what those cycles mean. 419 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,460 So that was kind of a way of queering that question. 420

00:19:47,260 --> 00:19:49,120 And then specifically, somehow, 421 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,700 this notion of death and life cycles brought me back to 422 00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:55,160 Bogota, my hometown, 423 00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:01,000 and I've never made a work that is super rooted in my 424 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,560 culture in such a tangible way and my ancestors and the 425 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:05,540 place where I was born. 426 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,140 But I realized that a lot of the history of Colombia is 427 00:20:10,140 --> 00:20:12,920 rooted in these notions of different cycles of life and 428 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,060 from the colonial era, you know, 429 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,840 like the colonization and taking a lot of our ancestral 430 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,820 heritage to contemporary notions of life and death, 431 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,900 to the way we mythologize life and death. 432 00:20:28,180 --> 00:20:30,800 I don't know if you've heard of magical realism, 433 00:20:31,020 --> 00:20:34,580 but in Colombia, magical realism is both in literature, 434 00:20:34,580 --> 00:20:38,240 but it's like extremely rooted into everyday life stories 435 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:39,440 and ways of living. 436 00:20:42,140 --> 00:20:46,020 And through this mythological research, 437 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,820 I became fascinated with what I found out is the Latin 438 00:20:51,820 --> 00:20:54,220 American Baroque or the Andean Baroque. 439 00:20:55,280 --> 00:21:00,100 And Baroque paintings are all about the Renaissance, death, 440 00:21:01,140 --> 00:21:03,300 rebirth, resurrection, 441 00:21:03,780 --> 00:21:07,420 all of these European perspectives on the notion of death. 442 00:21:08,060 --> 00:21:12,860 And in Latin America, when Latin America was colonized, 443 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,120 a lot of churches and paintings, 444 00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:18,980 obviously all of this infrastructure came with, 445 00:21:19,580 --> 00:21:22,880 but a lot of the craftsmen and artisanal people of Colombia 446 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,700 who were building these things, not just Colombia, 447 00:21:24,780 --> 00:21:26,380 but other countries in Latin America, 448 00:21:26,860 --> 00:21:31,360 started to hybridize a lot of these Baroque architectures, 449 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,580 paintings that were being imposed by infusing them with 450 00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:40,740 Latin American ancestral, I would say, aesthetics, 451 00:21:40,940 --> 00:21:41,880 qualities, and narratives. 452 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:43,160 So for example, in Bogota, 453 00:21:43,340 --> 00:21:48,500 you have a small church that is super Baroque, 454 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,800 extremely exaggerated, covered in gold, 455 00:21:51,140 --> 00:21:54,420 but all the paintings of these religious Catholic saints 456 00:21:54,420 --> 00:21:58,680 that the local people painted are actually painted in the 457

00:21:58,680 --> 00:21:59,720 backdrop of the Amazon. 458 00:21:59,980 --> 00:22:02,620 So you have these religious saints that are coming from 459 00:22:02,620 --> 00:22:05,700 colonization, but they're being painted in the Amazon. 460 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,820 And so you have these sort of tensions between what is 461 00:22:08,820 --> 00:22:11,780 local and what is being imposed and the subverting of the 462 00:22:11,780 --> 00:22:13,700 Baroque by the Latin American people. 463 00:22:15,340 --> 00:22:16,980 So this was really fascinating for us. 464 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,320 realize that the Baroque is not just something European but 465 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,440 it was something that was subverted subverted many many 466 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,820 years ago and in that we were thinking wow well what does 467 00:22:25,820 --> 00:22:28,400 it mean to queer the Baroque as well like a lot of the 468 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,860 times the Baroque representation and everything that is 469 00:22:30,860 --> 00:22:33,580 religious is obviously has a long-standing history with 470 00:22:33,580 --> 00:22:37,660 queer bodies and notions of body so we also took a lot of 471 00:22:37,660 --> 00:22:42,660 these paintings and we tried to queer those paintings so 472 00:22:43,540 --> 00:22:50,680 find ways of representing hinting at playing with these 473 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,500 hybrid Baroques but through the queer body what is it i 474 00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:57,520 mean we have a movement called the Double Gate Jesus and 475 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:04,020 it's two men on top of each other like back to chest in a 476 00:23:04,020 --> 00:23:06,940 sort of Jesus position in this really beautiful tender 477 00:23:06,940 --> 00:23:13,120 embrace so trying to kind of subvert these notions through 478 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,200 queering of image of like images that are so embedded in 479 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,140 our social cultural history and I think Colombia in 480 00:23:20,140 --> 00:23:23,960 particular a country that is sort of highly influenced by 481 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:24,900 Catholic culture, 482 00:23:25,340 --> 00:23:29,160 Catholic religion and how that's intention in the country 483 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:29,580 itself. 484 00:23:31,740 --> 00:23:36,100 To imagine this sort of queer landscape and when we talk 485 00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:38,580 about death you know you're asking me about queering death 486 00:23:38,580 --> 00:23:43,400 Bogota is also this sort of we call it a sort of post-human 487 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:49,160 and post-colonial space where we're trying to imagine you 488 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,520 know what does it mean what is the future of of a colonial 489 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,420 I don't think we're in post-colonial times at all but like 490 00:23:55,420 --> 00:23:57,920 our role as artists is to imagine what this looks like and 491 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,800 imagine these sort of places so we're using I always say 492 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,720 Bogota is a piece about Bogota but it's not about Bogota 493 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,560 Bogota I'm using it as a sort of trampoline that is very 494 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:13,360 personal to me my culture my ancestry to talk about like 495 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:16,040 post-colonial landscapes and what that looks like and how 496 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,380 do we queer those imaginaries by how bodies inhabit each 497 00:24:20,380 --> 00:24:23,660 other in space and for us to queer some of that stuff was 498 00:24:23,660 --> 00:24:26,980 also like there's a lot of chaos and complexity in Bogota 499 00:24:26,980 --> 00:24:32,780 and it was important that we create visual aesthetic 500 00:24:32,780 --> 00:24:36,140 choreographic spaces that make space for complexity and non 501 00:24:36,140 --> 00:24:40,840 -uniformity and non-homogeneity so that we as people I 502 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,860 think society is not really comfortable with complexity we 503 00:24:43,860 --> 00:24:48,380 really like order and we like to understand and so for us 504 00:24:48,380 --> 00:24:52,800 as artists like how do we make space for us to sit with 505 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,980 complexity on stage as a way of building different visual 506 00:24:55,980 --> 00:24:59,260 landscapes that become part of social culture After Push 507 00:24:59,260 --> 00:25:01,980 Balibisi will be presenting choreography they've 508 00:25:01,980 --> 00:25:04,720 commissioned from you and I would love to hear you talk 509 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,060 about the through lines of your choreographic inquiry so if 510 00:25:08,060 --> 00:25:12,760 people see Bogota and then your work with Balibisi what 511 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,820 might they see as an ASIMS that carries through? 512 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,500 I think it's a really good question. 513 00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:19,300 I mean, you know, 514 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,240 I'm really excited to work with Ballet BC. 515 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,360 It's like coming back to like one, 516 00:25:23,740 --> 00:25:25,180 a place where I started working. 517 00:25:25,380 --> 00:25:28,400 So it's like a massive full cycle and we've never been to 518 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,840 Vancouver and Vancouver was my home for such a long time. 519 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,080 So I'm so excited for all of this. 520 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,060 I think it's wonderful that the artists of Ballet BC can 521 00:25:39,060 --> 00:25:40,560 come see APNA, you know, 522 00:25:40,580 --> 00:25:42,800 because we work on a piece for three years, 523 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,960 we're able to build practices, methods, 524 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,400 kinship and ecology that helps us dream of these other 525 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,840 universes that are pluriversal and complex. 526 00:25:53,280 -->

00:25:55,980 And that's like in the, it's in the ecritsir, 527 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:57,620 like it's in the choreographic writing. 528 00:25:58,780 --> 00:25:59,260 Of course, 529 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,580 bringing that to Ballet BC is a challenge in five, 530 00:26:02,660 --> 00:26:04,480 six weeks, but that's the goal is like, 531 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,360 how much of that point of view can we bring to a company 532 00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:10,220 who does repertoire? 533 00:26:10,940 --> 00:26:14,440 How much of those ways of working and seeing can... 534 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,080 Can I transfer and bring into conversation with the artists 535 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:18,760 of Bali, BC? 536 00:26:19,540 --> 00:26:20,280 I think in particular, 537 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,100 one of the things that really excites me and we were 538 00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:27,040 talking with Mehdi about this the other day is I think this 539 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,040 notion of negotiation for me really comes from my design 540 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:30,500 background. 541 00:26:32,380 --> 00:26:35,440 So we were trying to imagine how can I bring a sort of 542 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:35,900 design, 543 00:26:36,140 --> 00:26:39,580 let's call it loosely intervention or a design situation 544 00:26:39,580 --> 00:26:43,560 that allows for the work that we'll do at Bali, 545 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,940 BC to have some form of negotiation. 546 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,080 So that's kind of what we're thinking about is trying to 547 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:50,720 imagine, 548 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,000 I call it loosely a design intervention not to give too 549 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,140 much away because it's there but I don't know if I'm gonna 550 00:26:56,140 --> 00:26:59,060 go in that direction but something that allows for the 551 00:26:59,060 --> 00:27:00,200 choreographic work at Bali, 552 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,120 BC to be a negotiation between these people. 553 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,960 The goal is to make a piece on the full company so it's a 554 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,980 lot of performers to transfer some of those ideas over. 555 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,180 But yeah, I think that would be it. 556 00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:17,300 My goal is to sort of transfer these notions of negotiation 557 00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:21,100 and also the sort of hybrid practices between design and 558 00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:23,180 dance movement. 559 00:27:23,660 --> 00:27:25,920 I always say for us, sonography is not, 560 00:27:26,660 --> 00:27:27,860 I never call it sonography. 561 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,680 Usually I call it more like landscapes of interaction 562 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,840 because it's important to see how the body is in dialogue 563 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:35,880 with its environment. 564 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,600 So we're trying to find what's possible to do with Bali, 565

00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:42,600 BC in that regards. 566 00:27:43,220 --> 00:27:45,580 And with regard to design, because yeah, 567 00:27:45,580 --> 00:27:49,120 you've mentioned you're a design artist and that's a big 568 00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:49,980 part of your practice. 569 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:52,300 And in Volkata, 570 00:27:52,300 --> 00:27:55,860 you reference Baroque which we've spoken about, brutalism. 571 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,960 Are these aesthetics thematic to your work or are those 572 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,160 really specific to Volkata? 573 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,540 No, actually they're really, it's interesting we were, 574 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,560 there's currently actually a research group at UCAM, 575 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,940 the University of Quebec Amor et al that is studying like AP 576 00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:15,560 &A practices. 577 00:28:16,300 --> 00:28:18,940 So it's really interesting from like a ecological 578 00:28:18,940 --> 00:28:23,280 sonography from a decolonial dramaturgy with Angelie Rilke 579 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:28,200 to two students in the theatre department. 580 00:28:28,220 --> 00:28:30,860 There's a sort of research group that is meeting for a year 581 00:28:30,860 --> 00:28:35,460 to understand the sort of decolonial and design practices 582 00:28:35,460 --> 00:28:38,560 of AP&A and what are like you asked me to name some tools 583 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,060 it's like we're trying to name these things so that we can 584 00:28:42,060 --> 00:28:45,540 also democratize like the things we create to like build 585 00:28:45,540 --> 00:28:49,040 discourse around practice like what are artists making 586 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,580 today in 2024 and what is choreography and how can we also 587 00:28:52,580 --> 00:28:57,940 make some of those thoughts tools trial and error available 588 00:28:57,940 --> 00:28:58,480 at large. 589 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,040 So there's a an interesting group working on that at UCAM 590 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,020 at the moment and they asked me, they were like, 591 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:06,140 what do you mean by industrial? 592 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,860 And me, Ugo, the lighting designer in Jonathan, 593 00:29:08,860 --> 00:29:10,780 the sonography were like, whoa, we've never, 594 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,420 we just take that word for granted, 595 00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:15,380 because we've been working for so long together. 596 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,920 And it was interesting, because I said, for me, 597 00:29:18,980 --> 00:29:21,380 the industrial refers to the past and the future. 598 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,040 And it's a word why I'm trying to encompass both past and 599 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,000 future notions of the industrial, 600 00:29:27,140 --> 00:29:30,500 where obviously the past is like the industrial revolution 601 00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:33,180 and the industrialization of humanity, where like, 602 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,120 you know, we live in a very industrialized society, 603 00:29:36,140 --> 00:29:39,160 whether we're aware of it or not, you know, 604 00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:42,580 from everything from cars nine to five, 605 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,240 like the industrial revolution really affected the sort of 606 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,020 mechanized lifestyle of humanity. 607 00:29:48,660 --> 00:29:50,300 And everything that is industrial, 608 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,200 we call that also the body of labor. 609 00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:55,300 So in APNA, we name different bodies. 610 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,900 So we have bodies of mythology, bodies of labor, 611 00:30:00,420 --> 00:30:05,180 bodies of like bodies of anthropology, bodies of non-human, 612 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:06,980 like we try to name different bodies. 613 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,340 So those are also just to insert the tools. 614 00:30:10,700 --> 00:30:13,380 And this notion of bodies of labor for me really comes from 615 00:30:13,380 --> 00:30:13,800 Colombia, 616 00:30:13,860 --> 00:30:16,440 like a lot of the countries that exist in the peripheries, 617 00:30:16,580 --> 00:30:16,640 right, 618 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,820 countries that are not the center like North America, 619 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,280 but a lot of countries of the periphery, 620 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,700 you see a lot of bodies of labor, right, 621 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,920 you have a lot of industries that are still active, 622 00:30:26,060 --> 00:30:27,520 even in Quebec or in Canada, 623 00:30:27,820 --> 00:30:30,460 like the moment you step out of Montreal and you go to 624 00:30:30,460 --> 00:30:32,900 Rimsky or like these outside cities, 625 00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:36,140 you see industry and you see these bodies who through 626 00:30:36,140 --> 00:30:38,480 industrialization, they become bodies of labor. 627 00:30:39,740 --> 00:30:40,100 So for us, 628 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,100 the word industrial hints at this sort of body of labor, 629 00:30:44,100 --> 00:30:47,200 and also the resilience and the humility of most of those 630 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,880 bodies of labor that exist outside of the center or the 631 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:50,540 city center. 632 00:30:51,420 --> 00:30:53,560 And at the same time, now for us, 633 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,360 the word industrial also is sort of hinting at everything 634 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,280 that is the artificial. 635 00:30:58,620 --> 00:31:01,760 So let's call it like the post-human and thinking about the 636 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,840 digital environment, the digital era, artificial. 637 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,240 intelligence we just did a piece called replica that looks 638 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,760 at the sort of notions of replication of body through time 639 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,620 and because i was quite quite

fascinated with like how we 640 00:31:14,620 --> 00:31:17,420 represent bodies in the digital sphere today with the 641 00:31:17,420 --> 00:31:20,680 metaverse and tiktok and all this stuff um so yeah the 642 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,280 industrial sort of teeters between everything that is this 643 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,920 body of labor that comes from the industrialization and 644 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,640 things that are maybe most more post-human or artificial or 645 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,720 artificial intelligence um in terms of digital digital 646 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:40,580 culture thank you andrea we are very blessed to have you 647 00:31:40,580 --> 00:31:43,780 coming you and apna the artist you work with coming to 648 00:31:43,780 --> 00:31:46,700 share this work with us here i am so thrilled i'm so 649 00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:50,500 excited um and i imagine that our listeners are too after 650 00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:53,900 hearing you paint this rich picture of the kind of 651 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:57,880 influences and tools that you're using to devise this work 652 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,660 no we're super excited i mean i think for me coming back to 653 00:32:01,660 --> 00:32:04,880 vancouver like i mentioned is It's quite precious. 654 00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:07,880 There's a community there that I still feel connected to. 655 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,980 We haven't been to Vancouver yet. 656 00:32:11,420 --> 00:32:12,640 And I think, again, 657 00:32:12,740 --> 00:32:14,960 just to be in conversation through practice, 658 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,600 I think is really, really interesting for all of us. 659 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,580 You just heard Gabriel Martin's conversation with Andrea 660 00:32:23,580 --> 00:32:24,080 Pena. 661 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:25,500 Her show, Bogota, 662 00:32:25,660 --> 00:32:28,380 will be presented at the Push International Performing Arts 663 00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:31,500 Festival on January 31st and February 1st, 664 00:32:31,580 --> 00:32:34,020 2025 at the Vancouver Playhouse. 665 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,460 The festival will run from January 23rd to February 9th. 666 00:32:39,340 --> 00:32:40,160 I'm Ben Charland, 667 00:32:40,260 --> 00:32:43,420 and I produce this podcast alongside the wonderful Trisha 668 00:32:43,420 --> 00:32:43,880 Knowles. 669 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,080 Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. 670 00:32:47,940 --> 00:32:50,860 New episodes of Push Play are released every Tuesday and 671 00:32:50,860 --> 00:32:53,080 Friday, wherever you get your podcasts. 672 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,000 And for more information on the 2025 festival and to 673 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,540 discover the full lineup of more than 20 works of theater, 674 00:33:00,540 --> 00:33:03,100 dance, music and multimedia performances, 675 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,760 visit pushfestival.ca. 676 00:33:07,260 --> 00:33:08,460 And on the next Push Play. 677 00:33:09,180 --> 00:33:09,940 When I was little, 678 00:33:10,260 --> 00:33:13,000 I thought that one day I would feel like an adult, 679 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,020 but that day never came. 680 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,080 I'm just I'm still the same person. 681 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,380 I just have a little bit more of responsibilities than when 682 00:33:20,380 --> 00:33:21,260 I was 11.