บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ A Conversation with Gaurav Sharma, MD, FCAP

00:05:44.000 So it was in your blood? 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:47.680 In a way, you can say, yeah, I was uh born into it. 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:54.079 Um did you know you were gonna go into pathology when you started medical school then? 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:57.199 It sounds like it it was a likely possibility. 00:05:57.759 --> 00:05:59.439 Well, you're absolutely right. 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:09.600 You know, in fact, when I graduated, uh my medical school offered me uh a resident spot in dermatology. 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:17.439 And somehow, after much uh thinking, I chose a different path to come back to pathology. 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:22.160 So to answer your question, yes, I had a strong inclination of going towards that. 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:25.839 Now you describe like your father actually seeing patients. 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:26.160 Yes. 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:33.279 The patients would come to the to the lab, they'd be referred for studies, and he he would actually know the patients. 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:33.759 Yes. 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:43.439 That that you know seems uncommon today that the pathologist actually has a face-to-face interaction with patients. 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:45.759 Yes, you you're absolutely right. 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:48.399 And it's a different way of practice. 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:56.319 So, like you have a primary care physician that you go with every problem, big or small. 00:06:56.560 --> 00:07:14.000 Um, in that model, if you needed a blood test, you or or any kind of test, you would go to a pathology clinic and get seen by a pathologist, and the pathologist would make sure that the test that was ordered was the right one for the disease. 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:19.519 Uh, and call the doctor and say, hey, maybe you want to change this. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:30.879 Um now, 20 years later, I say on the spot utilization management, if you think about it, making sure that the right patient is getting the right test. 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:36.879 Um, but that is how pathology is practiced in other parts of the world. 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:49.199 With your um informatics background, I think this is a fascinating kind of marriage of, you know, you talked about the data being held in the labs and the the transition to electronic medical records. 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:51.040 So you you live through that transition. 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:51.600 Oh, yes. 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:54.560 When you started, the rec records were paper. 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:55.519 Absolutely. 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:56.560 You're right. 00:07:56.800 --> 00:08:11.920 When I started off uh during President Obama's term, there was a great incentive to transition to electronic health record, and we went from 14% to I think more than 90% in a few years. 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:20.160 While that was mandated as part of that legislation, I think what it led to is this great adaptation. 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:22.000 Uh, and I lived through it. 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:30.800 Not only that, I also saw the difference in the data that not all healthcare data is the same. 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:35.200 For example, a lot of it is qualitative data. 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:52.159 So when you write a clinic note, you are describing, you are a human being describing what you saw, what you observed, compared to billing data, which is very objective and very factual, compared to lab data, which is an intersection of both. 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:53.919 So, yes, I lived through it. 00:08:54.000 --> 00:09:05.840 And now we actually see the power of data with all the new companies coming in and you know, trying to find on mine insights of this data that has accumulated over the last decade or so. 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:14.399 Tell me a little bit about where AI is going to fit in all this and where you see things going, and how maybe you're using AI today. 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:23.360 So I would describe myself as a realist, neither an optimist nor a pessimist. 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:35.440 Because I think we have to understand the fact that AI is a technological tool which is augmenting human intelligence. 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:43.279 People always frame this as well, AI take over medical work, the physician's work. 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:46.159 I would say most probably not. 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:55.440 I would say that a physician with AI would definitely outperform a physician with no AI. 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:57.759 So that's the paradigm. 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:12.799 I think what AI does is it has tremendous ability to do repetitive work with high fidelity, which we were previously using humans for. 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:21.039 A clinician's time was spent flipping through the records, trying to get the last imaging study or the last clinic note. 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:24.399 And I think AI can automate much of that. 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:31.039 Having said that, I'm also a realist because AI is intelligence. 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:34.879 It's not contextualization. 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:38.000 So sometimes AI misses the mark on that. 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:39.919 And I think we have to be careful. 00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:44.240 So President Reagan used to say, trust but verify. 00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:49.440 And I think AI is a partner that you can trust, but you need to verify. 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:51.120 Yeah, I think that makes sense. 00:10:51.200 --> 00:11:09.360 And I'm wondering if there's an analogy, and maybe this is isn't quite fair, but I'm sure there was a time when pathologists, you know, read blood smears with a microscope by hand and they counted the cells in the field to determine whatever a count of a certain kind of cell. 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:12.399 And then a machine came along that could do it. 00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:18.000 And I'm sure there was some anxiety over, you know, should we can we trust the result from the machine? 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.399

You know, there was a transition period. 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:25.279 And, you know, I see this in my own specialty, anesthesiology, you know, uh, too. 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:29.519 I mean, we have automatic blood pressure cuffs, we take them for granted now. 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:34.559 But when they first came out, it was like, I don't know, I better, you know, I'm gonna check that by hand just to make sure. 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:37.440 Now we've become accustomed to it and we don't really question it. 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:46.559 Um, so I'm I'm I mean, I'm sure that you know that this this is a a repeating theme where new technology comes out, we're suspicious of it. 00:11:46.720 --> 00:12:02.000 There are some issues, you know, but over time you you know, we we we make improvements and um uh then you know then then we adopt it and we recognize its limitations and we use it, you know, hopefully appropriately. 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:09.679 But it seems like there are analogies, there would be other analogies, you know, that have occurred from time to time, you know, in the field of pathology before. 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:25.440 Um my brother-in-law is a radiologist, and we often joke that 30 years back it was said that we won't need any radiologist and we won't see need any cars because everybody will be driving an electric car. 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:31.440 And now we joke that he is a radiologist who goes to work every day driving a car. 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:36.799 So I I think what you are pointing to is the way we as a society think. 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:50.320 We always buy into a very optimist, hyped up future, but then we actually when get to it and we adapt it, we know its pros as well as its cons. 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:57.039 And sometimes unexpected and powerful capabilities. 00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:06.960 And as we go through it, we sort of titrate down to a level that is realistic and reproducible, and most importantly, safe for patients. 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:09.200 Don't you think that is very important? 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:14.240 Patient safety comes first, and we only get to know it after we have adopted technology. 00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:22.799 What um what do you advise your medical students and residents, you know, when they ask about the future of your field and about medicine in general? 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:30.559 I would say, first of all, medicine was and is a noble profession. 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:40.559 Um the reason why they should, and I hope they will continue to come into this profession, is to help the fellow human being. 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:53.120 And I think that need for empathy and understanding will never go away, whether you have AI, either as artificial intelligence or augmented intelligence in your clinic or not. 00:13:53.679 --> 00:14:02.720 I think they should always have an open mind and adapt, learn the new systems, and then process it. 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:07.679 What I caution most of them is know your niche. 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:10.879 Not everybody can be everything. 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:30.879 You know, I I read Indic philosophy, and there is a quote in that, and it says, it is better for a person to be the best in what they are supposed to do compared to be better at what somebody else is supposed to do, right? 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:35.759 So I'm a pathologist, my first job is to be a great pathologist. 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:45.759 Can I be more knowledgeable than somebody in family medicine or radiology or allergy? 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:48.720 Maybe yes, maybe no, but that's not my job. 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:59.519 So knowing our niche is really important because then once you know what you are good at and what you are being asked to know about, you can really drill down. 00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:05.440 And I think in this world where everything is a big distraction, people sort of dilute their focus. 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:10.879 So they're doing this now, but then they move on to something else, then they move on to something else. 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:13.200 So I think knowing your natural home is important. 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:15.440 That's the third piece of advice I give them. 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:24.240 I know you must be a good teacher, and I know that because one of your residents uh won the Joseph Weiss Essay Award. 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:24.399 Yes. 00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:39.759 And I saw it in the Wayne County Medical Society's um magazine, uh the Detroit Medical News, um, and and his essay touches on some of these themes, you know, uh the human touch versus technology. 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:44.960 And I I couldn't help but wonder if you had inspired part of that. 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:45.679 So Dr. 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:48.720 Baba is an incredibly talented physician. 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:55.440 Uh before he did residency, he in fact did uh two years of informatics training. 00:15:55.679 --> 00:16:19.279 And you know, it might look as a paradox that here are two informatics people talking about empathy, but that's what we really understood after the end of the training that informatics is understanding, it is the tool to get to what you really need to do, which is help the human have a better life. 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:21.519 So I I just I think that's fascinating. 00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:32.159 So the two of you have this informatics background, but really it leads you to uh an appreciation of the human touch that's required in medicine. 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:33.120 Exactly. 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:46.879 You you're absolutely right, because you know, at the end, what is to be a physician uh it's less about our degree, it's more our more about our ability. 00:16:47.759 --> 00:17:01.120 So my grandmother used to teach me a very simple fact of life, which is what should a person pursue and it boils down to three pursuits that must run in parallel. 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:16.480 The

first pursuit that every person should do is the pursuit of knowledge or saraswati, which means to learn about things that better us and help us better others. 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:27.200 So, for example, a doctor goes to a medical school to gain the knowledge, then does a residency or a fellowship to gain the skills to be a good physician. 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:34.000 The second pursuit is the pursuit of prosperity or luxury. 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:47.440 That is a pursuit that once you have the skills that can help society, hopefully society will give you the resources and means to have a prosperous and comfortable living. 00:17:48.960 --> 00:18:12.000 There is a third pursuit, which is pursuit of security and wellness, that is durga, which means once you are knowledgeable, once you have a comfortable living, you should still feel secure that whatever you have accumulated in terms of your knowledge is still useful, and in terms of with your means is still secure. 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.279 So that comes with the power of influence. 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:29.680 And if you think back, don't you agree that as a physician, when you become a doctor, you automatically put yourself on a pursuit that hits all the three ideas that I gave you. 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.960 We have knowledge that can help patients. 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:35.359 Nobody else has that. 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:42.720 We have the means, or we are respected in society that most of us have a comfortable living. 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:49.279 And lastly, our profession with AI, without AI, without anything, the world will still be needed. 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:51.440 So we'll have a security. 00:18:51.759 --> 00:19:02.079 So I think medicine is a profession that fulfills this natural human need for knowledge, prosperity, and security. 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.799 And to me, that's the best profession still. 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:09.839 That's a kind of a wonderful way to um to consolidate it. 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:12.880 I hadn't thought of that, but it seems to be a fundamental truth. 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:19.039 So, yeah, so if you're sharing that with your students and residents, I think they would they would find that very inspiring. 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:23.599 And can I can I can I share a very core idea that comes out of it? 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:24.880 By all means. 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:33.839 Once you're trained as an anesthesiologist, that is the saraswati you have, no one in this world can take that knowledge from you. 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:34.880 Agreed? 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:39.839 Once you have built your reputation and your influence, that's your durga. 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:45.279 Unless you do something bad, nobody else can take it away, right? 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:47.359 And finally, prosperity, right? 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.799 Prosperity is a waxing and waning cycle, right? 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:55.759 But that is an outcome that comes from the year that you have invested. 00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:02.480 What I see in today's generation is this oh, we want to get the return on investment fast. 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:05.680 And sometimes, you know, we want it too fast. 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:15.119 We just don't want to invest that much in getting that core knowledge base in place, getting those frameworks in place or qualifications in place. 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:20.559 So sometimes that's an interesting philosophical discussion that I have, like the one we are having. 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:30.640 Uh but uh I think there are many other ways to look at what you want in life, and I think being a physician opens your mind to a lot of probabilities. 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.640 So your grandmother was one of your mentors, you know. 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:42.480 Are there were there any other people that were really influential in guiding your pathology career? 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:44.640 You mentioned your father and your grandmother. 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:45.440 Yes. 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:49.440 So my father was uh the one who set me on the path. 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:52.400 Um, I would like to give a lot of credit to Dr. 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:53.359 Richard Zarbu. 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:56.720 He's the chairman of the Department of Pathology at Henry Ford. 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:01.680 He was the one who hired me as a first-year resident in pathology. 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:05.440 Uh wow, about 20 years back. 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:09.359 And now I serve uh with him as his vice chair. 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:11.839 Uh, he's been incredibly supportive. 00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:23.839 Uh we work in a medical group, and the medical group invests a lot in the physicians at Henry Ford, and uh we have great CEOs, uh including Dr. 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:33.839 Steve Palcanis, who invests a lot of resources in making sure that everybody, including pathologists, are able to grow in their field. 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:37.599 And I would give a lot of credit to College of American Pathologists. 00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:38.319 Why? 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:41.759 Because it is organized medicine and pathology. 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:52.880 That is one organization in the last 20 years has supported and trained me with the skills that are not traditionally taught in medical schools. 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.359 For example, going and meeting a senator. 00:21:55.599 --> 00:22:07.039 I'm sure as a former senator yourself, you You would agree that it's a skill and an art that we must inculcate, and it's incredibly influential. 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:11.839 Yeah, that's a good segue into your work in organized medicine. 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:12.559 Yes, we do. 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:18.640 And so it started with the College of American Pathologists, and you've served on at least one of their committees. 00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:19.200 Yes. 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:23.440 But then you also became

involved in the Wayne County Medical Society. 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:26.799 You served as the president-elect, the president, you're cycling through. 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:34.240 So I want I want to tell me a little bit about your involvement with Wayne County Medical Society, how you got started. 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:48.400 You know, you you you had this introduction, apparently, through the pathology uh uh uh society, um, but how you transitioned or how you moved from that and and and became so involved in your county medical society. 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:52.400 So you will find it interesting. 00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:58.319 It all started with me opening an email. 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.160 You know, we get a hundred emails every day. 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:08.400 Many of them are from state societies, many of them are from county medical society from our respective colleges. 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:26.960 So one fine day I opened an email from Wayne County Medical Society that our medical group uh sponsors us for, and it had an invitation called Young Physician Essay Competition in the honor of Dr. 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:27.680 Wise. 00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:31.440 I'm sure you're familiar with it. 00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:37.759 Here is the thing: you know, because of my early upbringing, I have this philosophy friend of mind. 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:55.599 And if you remember those dark days of 2020 when COVID was everywhere, I asked myself, this isn't the first time that there has been a calamity of this scale in human history in terms of disruption of society. 00:23:55.839 --> 00:24:01.680 So let's find out uh how did people react, how did leaders react? 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:05.279 And I came across the story of Marcus Aurelius. 00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:36.400 So Marcus Aurelius was the last of the good Roman emperors, and he was a stoic, and he was known to be extremely capable, but extremely balanced, because he was taught and practiced Stoicism, and he kept the Roman Empire through a plague, through an economic uh ruin, and numerous rebellions. 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:42.400 So I thought he had something that I need to learn about, and that was Stoicism. 00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:48.000 So I started writing about Stoicism, and that's why I ended up becoming an essayist on the weekends. 00:24:48.160 --> 00:25:02.319 So I wrote an essay for Wayne County Medical Society, Wayne County Medical Society accepted it, published it, and I thought, so they are not talking about pathology, but they're talking about things that relate to medicine. 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:06.880 And that's when I started writing more and more about their newsletter. 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:14.079 I got an editorial board and eventually made it through the board and was elected the president. 00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:20.720 So, as I said in the beginning, life is a series of detours, never planned, but you're delighted to reach where you are. 00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:35.920 You know, it's interesting, and um I just make the observation that in the journal of the American Medical Association, Ojama, which AMA members get, there's a regular feature, a piece of my mind. 00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:36.319 Yeah. 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:45.200 And it is a usually a story written by a physician, uh, you know, maybe about a patient or experience, or it's often very philosophical. 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:51.039 But I know for many years that was the most commonly read piece in JAMA. 00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:54.559 And so I think you've, you know, you've hit on something interesting. 00:25:54.640 --> 00:26:18.720 And I'm wondering, did your writing and your involvement in the Wayne County Medical Society, is that, I mean, I know it's important to you, but do you see that as maybe a way to avoid burnout or a way to you know enhance your your professional uh satisfaction, you know, by reaching out and being involved with other physicians? 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.240 I think you have the answer in your question. 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:25.119 So let's look at the term society. 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:29.359 So medical society is a society, but what is society? 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:34.160 So society is a collection of people who have something in common. 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:40.240 So physician society is a medical society, but it is a deeper concept of fellowship. 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:53.200 So if a group of people believe in something and their interests are to get somewhere, they form a fellowship, and that is a society in the modern context. 00:26:53.519 --> 00:27:05.359 So when you do that, you have conversations like you and I are having, and I learn from you, and you learn from me, and we also correct each other, right? 00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:18.000 So that dialogue is the basic thing that separates humans, that ability to dialogue with another person is what separates us from everybody else on this planet, right? 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:23.599 And that helps has helped us become better and better with every generation. 00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:35.359 What we have often lost, I think, in the last 20 years with the rise of social media, is we are connected more, but we are more isolated. 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:41.039 Because we are speaking at each other, but not with each other, right? 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:56.960 So if you think about it, won't you agree that state medical societies, county medical society, and national medical society is your professional home, your fellowship, your society where you can go and speak to like-minded people, discuss your problems. 00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:01.359 Just discussing the problem is, I think, getting a relief of 50%, right? 00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:03.519 And then maybe you get solutions. 00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:06.880 So I think you have it right. 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:17.119 The society is not just about a subscription, the society is about fellowship, about some common goal that we all

want to attain. 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:23.920 What um what comes next as you pass through the presidential cycle at Wayne County? 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:34.319 And if you want to say a few words about what the Wayne County Medical Society is up to, this would be a good time, but especially like what what what you see coming next. 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:56.000 So I was uh very fortunate to serve as the president of Wayne County Medical Society, and I say fortunate because I follow in the footsteps of people who were invested in the health of Southeast Michigan, and that is one of the oldest counties in the United States. 00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:58.720 So there is a weight of history there. 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:02.000 Um let's talk about history. 00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:14.400 Heraclitus, he was a Greek writer, and 2,500 years ago he wrote a line that is so profound that change is the only constant in the world. 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:16.640 Nothing else. 00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:31.119 So I did my term, we adapted new ways of communicating, new aims to pursue, but then change is the only constant. 00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:34.000 So I finished my term, and we now have Dr. 00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:37.279 Fletcher who has taken over, a very capable leader. 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:47.279 What I hope is there are a few things that we started, such as podcasts, that will help a newer generation of clinicians connect with us. 00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:52.880 And I'm so incredibly impressed that MSMS is starting this podcast series. 00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:54.319 Because guess what? 00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:56.799 People now consume digital media. 00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:02.240 And that is, if we have to have a future of fellowship, much of it would be digital. 00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:11.119 Doesn't mean that AI will replace this, it'll just mean that we'll be reaching out to far more people with better electronic means. 00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:12.400 That works for them. 00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:18.559 And your podcast through the Wayne County Medical Society is Clinical Connections, right? 00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:19.680 Yes, yeah, absolutely. 00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:24.319 That can be found on their website and on YouTube, right? 00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:25.279 Yes. 00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:46.319 So we decided to host our long-form podcast on the on our YouTube channel, WCMSSM, or you can just Google Wayne County Medical Society podcast, and you will have the opportunity to hear from leaders in Wayne County and talk about their different journeys. 00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:56.160 So we have someone who became a CEO, we have someone who is a chair of radiology, different paths, right? 00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:59.839 You know, and and you know what, as I said, life is detours, right? 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.000 So if someone has walked that path before you, why not learn from them? 00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:09.039 Um well, thanks so much, Guara, for joining me, you know, on our podcast. 00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:10.400 It's been a delight. 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:19.279 And I want to give a quick MSMS update, you know, to our viewers on some things that are happening uh within our organization. 00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:25.759 I know our members, uh, if they followed things, they know we've done some restructuring within the last year. 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.960 And it it has led to a more important role that our committees are playing. 00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:41.200 So if you're an MSMS member and you want to be more involved in our processes and our decision making, then I would encourage you to consider joining one of our committees. 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:43.039 We have several, they can be found on our website. 00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:49.839 We have a committee, for example, that reviews legislation a policy committee, a public health committee, a CME committee. 00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.920 We need help from our membership with driving, though. 00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:58.160 So please consider uh joining one of our committees. 00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:06.960 I wanted to give an update too on an issue that we have that's pending in the legislature that I think is important to our members. 00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:08.400 It's one we've been working on. 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:16.559 Kind of relates to you know what we talked about a little bit with um uh some of the you know burdens that physicians face. 00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:20.160 And it has to do with the relicensure process in Michigan. 00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:31.680 If you've been here for a while, you might have noticed that Michigan has one of the higher bars for relicensure requiring 150 CME credits in a three-year cycle. 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:33.440 That's at the extreme end. 00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:37.200 The national average is about 25 credits per year. 00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:38.960 That's 75 in a three-year cycle. 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:41.839 So we have a bill that's in the legislature to do that. 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:44.079 It's House Bill 5313. 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:56.400 So if you're meeting with your legislator, tell them to support this bill, which would which would put our standard uh you know with the other states and would help reduce a little of the burden from relicensure. 00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:58.480 Well, thanks for viewing. 00:32:58.640 --> 00:32:59.200 Thank you, Dr. 00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:00.960 Scheimer, for joining me. 00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:09.279 And um, you can catch us next time on protecting physicians and preserving medicine.