บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Beyond Us vs. Them: Understanding Polarization with Dr. Sarah Gaither

00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:15.599 Um, it doesn't only apply to politics. 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:20.160 Of course, that's how we talk about it a lot, especially in our two-party system here in the US. 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:25.360 Um, it can apply to what your favorite music is, it can apply to the best place you want to hang out with with your friends. 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:29.040 You like this place, they like this place, and that creates a division in your friend group. 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:38.720 So, really, it's these strong attitudes that end up getting stronger over time because we have this bias as humans to actually hang out with others who believe the same things we do. 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:44.160 And so this increases our beliefs, making polarization uh much more likely to happen. 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:49.360 And for adolescents, does polarization start during these formative years? 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:53.920 Or is that does it start for in these formative years for everybody? 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:56.240 Or is it kind of different for every individual? 00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:01.439 And how does our polarization develop if we're kind of in this weird foundational like stage? 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:01.920 Yeah. 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:04.079 So polarization can happen at any stage in life. 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.560 It could even happen with before adolescence, right? 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:13.199 Young kids start forming really strong attitudes and beliefs, um, depending on what your parents are teaching you, what your teachers are teaching you. 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:15.519 So polarization can happen at any point in time. 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:22.079 Where we see it happen more often than not is if you live in a much more um homogenous society or neighborhood, right? 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:32.000 If you surround yourself by people who look like you, think like you, talk like you all the time, you're gonna be more likely to have these stronger beliefs linked to one side versus the other. 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:37.199 Um, so the the biggest thing that I always try to push to people is to try and expose yourself to something different. 00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:46.240 Um I'm from California myself, like you, and growing up in California is a very different lived experience than I have now living in North Carolina, which is a political state. 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:46.399 Yeah. 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:46.720 Right. 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.160 So I'm exposed to a lot more attitudes here than I was living in California. 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:51.759 And I actually think that's really healthy. 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:56.319 So yeah, at any point in time, you can increase or decrease this polarization. 00:05:56.720 --> 00:05:59.680 And does polarization have different levels? 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:02.160 And I know that you say it can grow over time. 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:06.319 Can you have a really strong polarization for something in particular? 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:12.000 And then it kind of just flatlines, or does all polarization kind of grow over time? 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:15.759 So it's really dependent on where you're living, who you're around. 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:17.519 Um, attitudes can change all the time. 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:22.319 This is one thing I love about being an identity scholar is your identities are also changing over time. 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:25.439 You may be born thinking one thing and you learn something else. 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:32.319 And as you make new friends, you experience new things in life, this is gonna shift your attitudes and beliefs in lots of different ways. 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:42.480 Um, but again, the more often you expose yourself to the same exact type of people, the less likely you are to be open to other beliefs or interpretations on any given topic or issue. 00:06:43.360 --> 00:07:02.160 And in the situation where maybe an individual can't be surrounded by people who don't have different views than them, maybe they're in a small town in the middle of the state and they just don't have access to people or technology or some way to communicate with others that have different points of views, but they want to learn more. 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:10.399 What can these individuals do to try to get a better grasp on maybe what the other side is thinking if a certain topic is really polarized? 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:18.000 Yeah, so we actually have a lot of evidence now that even for rural communities across the US, almost everyone has access to a computer or internet somewhere. 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:20.720 It might be at a community center or a library. 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:28.800 Um, so even though it's not as equitable as it should be still across the US, um, what I always encourage people to do is to get outside of your comfort zone. 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:32.160 Uh, one of my favorite phrases is find comfort in your discomfort, right? 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:37.600 Go to that community event, go check out that book from the library that represents a different viewpoint than yours. 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:47.040 Or for younger kids, I think pen pals and getting things in the actual snow slow snail mail is actually a really great, great way for you to learn about where someone else is living. 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:50.480 Um, so you could even start a pen pal yourself, no matter what age you are. 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:56.800 Well, that is so wonderful to hear because I haven't even really discussed the idea of pen pals in a really long time. 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:01.360 And I think it was a bigger thing when even I was younger 10 years ago or so. 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:08.560 But but pen pals are such a good way to just write as a young child to somebody who may have completely different point of view than you. 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:10.319 So I really love that you mentioned that. 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:14.399

And briefly, a couple minutes ago, you mentioned identity. 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:18.639 And during adolescence and young adulthood, identity plays a big role. 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:28.399 It plays a big role throughout our entire lives, but because these years are so formative and foundational, we're growing our identity very, very strongly during these years. 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.439 So why do people become so attached to their beliefs? 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:38.559 And what role does identity play in making disagreements feel personal rather than simply intellectual during adolescence? 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:41.039 Yeah, your identity is everything, right? 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:47.840 And something I often try and stress during sessions with students here at Duke is no one can take your identity from you, right? 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:49.039 You are your own person. 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:54.399 You should be able to hopefully live in a context where you can believe in yourself the ways you want to. 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:57.279 Um, because humans, we're not just information processors. 00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:00.799 We're constantly looking for ways we can belong, right? 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:04.399 We have this human tendency to want to belong socially to others. 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:08.240 And so adolescence is this really important developmental period. 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:12.720 Um, psychologists like to define certain age points as being periods of shifting, right? 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:14.000 When we learn about ourselves. 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:16.159 And adolescence is complicated, right? 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:21.519 You're questioning who you are, maybe romantic interests for partners start coming into play. 00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:28.960 And your peers also start becoming slightly more judgmental because we're all trying to figure out who we are versus who we aren't, right? 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:33.679 This division starts exacerbating amongst the adolescencyers in particular. 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:38.240 The other critical period we study a lot is that first year transition into college. 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:44.320 So if you think adolescence is a lot, once you get to college, you're now those student groups. 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:47.600 Yeah, you've left all of your family and friends and your high school life, right? 00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:55.360 And so these are two very critical periods where we know there's a lot at play and we're asking questions about ourselves and about others. 00:09:55.440 --> 00:10:02.399 And that's how our identity ends up reinforcing itself, or perhaps you discover a new part of yourself that you didn't once know existed. 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:12.960 And during adolescence, we respond to things really drastically sometimes and not so much with the rise in emotions and a lot of different hormonal changes. 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:24.000 The way that we interact with one another can seem

a little bit more intense than maybe if we were a fully developed adult or a younger kid who hasn't yet developed those types of things yet. 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:31.519 So, how does that developmental stage influence the way teenagers and young adults respond to differing opinions or social groups? 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:38.080 I think what's really hard during the adolescent years is you're still growing up and learning how the world works, right? 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:42.799 And so things are still very new, even though a lot of adolescents think they know everything, right? 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:45.440 But you're still figuring out how the world works. 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:47.759 You haven't voted yet here in the US, right? 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:50.320 So there's a lot of things that you're piecing together. 00:10:50.399 --> 00:11:00.960 And so I think when you come across disagreement, we often don't have enough practice, even as college-age students, on how to navigate talking about difficult topics, right? 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:03.039 We tend to avoid those things generally in life. 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:05.039 No one wants to have a bad conversation. 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:07.919 Most humans want to have a good social interaction. 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:18.480 So we avoid hard conversations, which then means when that hard conversation comes up, particularly for a young teenager, we don't usually have enough experience to navigate those things effectively. 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:25.200 Um, so the biggest piece of advice I always give adolescents when I work with them is to really think through your response, right? 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:28.000 You want to respond and not react when something happens. 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.799 Like take a moment to think about who that person is. 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:36.879 Um, and a lot of my research on multiple identities would suggest that that person is more than just that one belief, right? 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:41.039 They have a lot of components to themselves that I think we forget about quite often. 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:52.240 And before we go deeper into the multiple identities and the influence of that, I really want to jump back into what you said about kind of experiencing these conversations. 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:59.519 During adolescence, we don't really get all of those nitty-gritty conversations because we just don't experience them. 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:05.519 They're not in our school life, they may not be in our hobbies, and we tend to avoid them because, as you said, they're uncomfortable. 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:09.600 They make us nervous, and they may just not be appealing. 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:23.279 But are there ways that maybe external influences such as schools or hobbies or parents can kind of influence adolescents to experience these difficult conversations in a good positive way? 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:31.759 And do you think that would be a beneficial kind of tactic or a method for adolescents to get that experience before they go into adulthood or young adulthood? 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:32.320 Yes. 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:35.840 I mean, I think exposure, again, is the biggest thing anyone can do, right? 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:40.480 Exposing yourself to new ways of thinking, new cultural groups and cultural festivals. 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:49.759 Um, so parents who are able to take their kids to different experiences are gonna have more opportunities for that kid to be like, oh, I've never seen this type of drumming style before. 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:51.679 And then they want to go look it up afterwards. 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:54.720 Um, so creating opportunities is by far the best thing. 00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:00.080 Now, now all parents have the means to do that, or the training to also talk with their kids about difference. 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:04.320 Schools would be a wonderful place for this to take to take shape. 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:12.639 Um, however, as we're seeing right now, is there's lots of pushes and curriculums from the Department of Education on what it is we're allowed to teach kids versus not teach kids. 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:17.919 Um, and so I actually think this is a big threat to the overall development for our entire country. 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:24.000 Uh, we need more opportunities in safe structured spaces for us to hear about different lived experiences. 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:27.840 Because if we don't hear about those experiences, then we think they don't exist. 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:37.600 So I'm really hoping that we can continue to foster these dialogue and exposure opportunities within formal school settings, because that's the broadest way to reach the most youth across the country. 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:53.759 Yeah, and education really is key because if we don't know something, the only way that we're gonna gain a better understanding of that thing is learning about it, whether that is through looking it up on your own or having a productive common conversation with different individuals. 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.320 Uh, you have to learn in some process. 00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:05.200 And as you said, with a lot of changes in our education system right now, that in the school schools in specific is getting a little bit more difficult. 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:15.759 However, there's maybe a couple of ways, including clubs or after school events or just having those difficult conversations with friend groups outside of school that adolescents could sneak those conversations in. 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:24.480 However, you're gonna want to take that initial step and it may feel a little uncomfortable yet again, but doing that will prove to be more beneficial. 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:41.840 And we're gonna kind of lead into your multiple social identities because much of your research about explorers belonging and this idea of most multiple

social identities, especially because identity is a very broad thing and we can resonate with a lot of different parts of who we are, and they can shape us over time. 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:49.840 So, how can recognizing the the very different parts of our identity make us more open to understanding people who are different from us? 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:59.759 Yeah, so I think my research really again stems from growing up as this multiracial person and having these multiple salient racial ethnic identities as a core part of myself, right? 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.799 But we're not just our race, we're our gender, our occupation. 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:05.919 Maybe you're a brother or a sister, an athlete, right? 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:10.000 All of these identities combine to make what we call a self-concept in psychology. 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:16.080 And what our work is really trying to argue is that psychology to date has really focused on an in-group versus an out-group. 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:22.960 So you have one group that's like you, one group that's not like you, but really you have 20 different groups that make you you. 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:36.159 Um, and so the more I think we start leaning into this idea that we have multiple facets of ourselves, um, our work shows it can boost flexible thinking with test-taking abilities, better problem-solving outcomes, starting even at age six. 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:43.039 Um, so the more we can lean into this less fixed thinking about our sense of identities, we are this expansive self. 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:49.440 I think it's going to lead to a much more inclusive space and a much more willingness for people to talk across different lines. 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:55.279 Cause if I end up discovering I have this California identity in common with you, it's like, oh, now we have this thing in common. 00:15:55.440 --> 00:16:01.039 So even if you have different on something else, I can now anchor on the fact that you and I are both Californians. 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:01.600 Right. 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:24.720 And for a lot of adolescents, though, taking that step to kind of maybe resonate with a different part of your identity that isn't as strong as another thing, or if an external influence, including a friend or maybe a peer, is kind of saying, leaning into that thing may be a little weird, or the judgment of kind of chasing that part of your identity may be a little high. 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:31.600 Are there kind of methods that adolescents can take to pursue all of their social identities and kind of who they are? 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:36.799 Or is it kind of impossible to go through each one? 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:44.159 What are kind of tactics so that adolescents can pursue each one of those things while also having a productive kind of growth? 00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:44.639 Yeah. 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:56.000 So I think if it, if you're trying to sort of use your identities to your advantage to help difficult conversations be easier, um, I always view having difficult conversations just like going to the gym and working out, right? 00:16:56.080 --> 00:17:00.240 Like you have to work out your muscles, and those first couple workouts are gonna be a lot harder, right? 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:02.720 You're gonna be breathing harder, your muscles are not ready. 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:06.799 Your brain and your ability to talk in difficult situations is the same thing. 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.759 Your brain is a muscle just like a muscle you're working out at the gym. 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:11.279 So if you start small, right? 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.279 Don't jump right in with your racial or sexual or gender identity. 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:20.160 Maybe start with a different identity that you might have in common with someone and see how that works first, right? 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:28.559 And sort of warm up these muscles over time with talking about identities that might be not as polarizing or as essentializing for you as a person. 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:33.440 And then see how that can also get you to learn more about someone who maybe you thought differently about. 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:39.599 But now that you've learned you both love mac and cheese, you can start talking about where to get the best mac and cheese in the study, right? 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:48.720 And maybe you can go to those places together and you can learn more about someone than just that individual belief that might make them seem very different from you when they're really not so different. 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:56.880 Yeah, taking baby steps and whatever it may be, as we see in education, you don't start by going straight into calculus. 00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:03.039 You start by doing addition and subtraction and slowly making your way up to a division and multiplication. 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:05.680 And things are gradually increasing. 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:11.119 And as you said, our brain is a muscle, so we can't just force everything upon it because then it's going to overload. 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:19.200 So taking those baby steps and starting with the things about you, like them, maybe you enjoy mac and cheese with somebody else who also enjoys mac and cheese. 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:25.279 And then eventually your relationship grows and you feel more comfortable discussing the more polarizing and intense topics with them. 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:28.240 But as you said, it's kind of a tortoise in the hair situation. 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:29.839 Slow and steady wins the race. 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:36.319 Taking it gradually and not forcing it upon yourself and another individual is really going to create the most productive outcome. 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:46.079 And right now, with the changing sphere of technology and social media and all of these different things online, adolescents see a lot. 00:18:46.799 -->

00:18:49.680 However, there's positives and there's negatives to that. 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:56.640 With algorithms, we see things that are appealing to us, which may lead us to believing that that is the only view out there. 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:02.240 And social media often encourages quick reactions instead of thoughtful conversations. 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:07.359 So with these algorithms, how does that shape our polarization currently in society? 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:13.279 And how does that environment contribute to everything, especially for adolescents and young adults? 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:15.599 And how does it shape our point of view? 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:19.440 Yeah, so social media is a double-edged sword sometimes. 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:24.079 I think there's amazing, I want to start by saying there are positive benefits to social media, right? 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:30.000 Especially if you are the only person with a certain type of identity or lived experience and you live in a small town. 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:36.880 Social media is a way for you to connect with people to find more information, right, about what it's like to live with a disorder or whatever the case may be. 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:40.799 So there are amazing positive connection benefits that can come from social media. 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:45.519 That said, bullying, those things also are a con from social media. 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:51.599 And then from a polarization standpoint, your internet browsers are scanning what you're searching all the time. 00:19:51.839 --> 00:20:02.079 So if you're searching certain types of things, your Instagram, your TikTok, Snapchat, whatever it is that you use, that's continually feeding on what you're clicking on and what you're watching. 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:07.279 So you're gonna keep seeing the same types of beliefs or ideologies based on what you're clicking. 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:09.680 And most of you don't want to click something you don't believe in. 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:10.319 I get that. 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:20.160 But the more you click on things you might not believe in, the more varied the algorithms are gonna be and showing you a more mixed, nuanced view of whatever the issue is that you might be interested in. 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:23.759 Um but the the big thing with social media is it is so instant, right? 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:25.680 It's this instant gratification. 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:29.279 You see something, you click it, you like something, you see something in response. 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:34.319 And it is that speed that I think it's training this current generation in a really negative way. 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:41.839 Um, we need more time to process information and to look for a fuller picture before we make these judgments about people. 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.920 Um, we see this with lots of cases when there's a murder, for example, right? 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:51.359

Things come out, then you learn later on, oh, maybe we should have been so quick to judge that situation. 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:55.119 Um we need time to process and to find the correct information. 00:20:55.200 --> 00:21:02.160 And the current social media landscape, I think, is creating a very negative effect on us being able to process things thought. 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:09.200 And are there ways that adolescents and young adults can slow down their mind while still being involved in social media? 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:22.000 Because it's really difficult when that feed is only videos that are 30 seconds long and you scroll and you scroll, and eventually an hour's gone by and other things gone by and you've seen hundreds of videos. 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:31.200 Are there ways that we can kind of slow down the way that we analyze things and involve ourselves in the social media and online media world? 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:31.680 Yeah. 00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:38.000 So I think the biggest thing you sort of hinted at this already is the scrolling obsessive nature that we have right now. 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:43.440 Um you need to give yourself time limits first off on how often you're looking at social media. 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:45.680 You just simply can't do it all day. 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:50.319 Um, maybe it's like the thing you want to do after you've had breakfast before you're headed off to school. 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:55.599 You give yourself 10 minutes, or maybe it's the thing you do when you get home from school is like your 10 minutes. 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:59.680 Doing it more than that every day is just gonna train you in bad ways. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:05.759 Um, you'll end up wasting your life, I think, in a lot of ways, rather than having real social interactions with people face to face. 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:08.000 We just sit there scrolling all day long. 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:11.039 Liking things doesn't count as a social conversation. 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:22.000 Um, that said, I do think if you're using social media as a way to inform yourself about new things that are happening in the world or whatever the case may be, it can be a very different type of educational experience. 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.440 But I don't think that's what most people are using social media for. 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:28.559 They're just sitting there scrolling blindly, right, all day. 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:34.640 Um, so I try to tell people to ask themselves, are you trying to learn something right now or are you just bored? 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.839 Or are you trying to escape something difficult in your life? 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:39.680 And that's why you're sitting there scrolling. 00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:54.240 So, really giving people a chance to think about why it is they're motivated to go to that social network platform and trying to assess, well, what else could I be doing to get rid of that sensation of me needing to go to TikTok in order to find that sense of belonging? 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:54.960 Exactly. 00:22:55.119 --> 00:23:02.559 There's so many other activities and things out there that anyone can pursue instead of going on social media. 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:13.519 While it might be a very easily accessible, quick, fast gratification platform, there's other things that may give you that same amount of joy and happiness. 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:20.799 And there's things that'll have a much better positive effect instead of that kind of doom scrolling effect out there. 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:29.759 So pursuing those things and kind of finding out what that is could maybe lead you on a positive identity track and could become a part of you as well. 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:32.799 So pursuing those other things is as important. 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:36.799 And you said it yourself, there are positive benefits of social media. 00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:42.000 So it's not saying that social media in general is this awful place that if you go online, you're just gonna get sucked into it. 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:46.319 But being aware and understanding that, okay, I'm setting my limit. 00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:47.279 This is my limit. 00:23:47.519 --> 00:24:04.720 After that, I'm gonna go read a book, or I'm gonna go sit outside, I'm gonna go hang out with my friends and not bring my phone, whatever it may be, finding those things to take a step back will really prove to be influential and beneficial and crucial to kind of development and understanding social media on a positive basis. 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:14.400 And a lot of the times people don't pursue other opinions or beliefs because they don't want to be judged for having the opposite one. 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:27.839 But in the situation where maybe you want to have a good conversation about polarized views, is it possible to strongly believe something while also remaining genuinely curious about another person's perspective? 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:31.920 What does your research suggest about these types of interactions? 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:36.799 Yeah, I think it's important to remember that curiosity doesn't mean agreement, right? 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:45.359 You you again signing up to go to a talk that's a little outside of your normative talk circle to learn something new doesn't mean you have to agree with what anyone is saying. 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:46.880 The same thing goes in the classroom, right? 00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:49.759 You're sometimes forced to take certain classes as a high school student. 00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:58.079 You might not agree with that what that teacher is saying, but you should still give yourself the opportunity to hear what they're saying and then figure out why you might disagree, right? 00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:01.440 Um, use that as a way to make you a more informed thinker. 00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:07.599 Um so I think you always want to then use that

as a way of thinking, well, how did I come to believe what I believe? 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:12.319 Why is it that I disagree with this teacher or this TikTok influencer or whoever it may be? 00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:15.680 What is my own lived experiences that taught me to believe this? 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:19.599 And what might be their lived experiences that taught them to believe that, right? 00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:22.559 We're we're not born learning to hate each other, right? 00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:29.039 When we pop out, we are just tiny little dependent creatures with no basis of hate at all. 00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:36.160 Over time, we learn these group identity belonging issues, and that's what creates this division between people because we are social beings. 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:40.480 So the more we can remind ourselves that curiosity is 100% okay. 00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:43.039 And it doesn't mean you have to change your beliefs. 00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:48.240 But I do encourage people to at least sit and think a little bit about the things that you you may have heard. 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:59.599 And I love that you said curiosity doesn't mean agreement because you don't always have to pursue a topic or kind of a genre of something or whatever it may be that you completely agree with. 00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:08.319 Involving yourself in things that you don't agree with can actually prove to be more educational because maybe you're just not as informed about that thing or you haven't heard that perspective yet. 00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:11.200 So I love that you said that curiosity doesn't mean agreement. 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:27.680 It's something that you're curious about and wondering about and asking these questions about, but it doesn't mean that you solely believe in that thing, which is really, really important because adolescents should go pursue those things that they are genuinely curious about, even if it isn't something that they resonate with deep within. 00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:37.279 When we're also kind of down this road of trying to learn about polarization and maybe learning about the other point of view and things of that nature, there might be bumps in the road. 00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:44.240 There might be mistakes that we make or things that we say that genuinely might be an honest mistake. 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:47.920 There's things that are common and maybe there's things that aren't. 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:54.960 But are there actually common psychological mistakes when we are trying to understand people that we disagree with? 00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:57.440 And do we see this in your research? 00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:02.160 Yeah, so I think the biggest mistakes that people make is that instant fixed judgment. 00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:14.880 I think the number one mistake we make as humans is once you and I feel like we have a very different belief, especially about something like politics or religion or something that's very deeply intertwined with our sense of self and identity. 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:19.200 I make the mistake as a human and now view you in a category, right? 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:21.039 You can't be anything else. 00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:22.319 I have this instant judgment. 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:27.039 And this is a term in psychology we call the fundamental attribution error or the FAE. 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:36.799 So when I mess up on something, I'm really good at coming up with all kinds of excuses for myself about why I may have failed that test or failed in that relationship with someone. 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:42.559 But if someone else fails that test of like, oh, well, they're just a lame studier, they're just not good at studying. 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:43.920 They're just a bad student, right? 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:51.440 So we're really good at looking at contextual or situational explanations for ourselves, but we're less good at considering that for other people. 00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:56.000 And I think that's honestly one of the biggest mistakes we make as humans on a daily basis. 00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:09.359 And are there methods that adolescents and young adults can do so that they maybe don't put that first place judgment ahead of getting the contextual evidence about the situation, about someone else? 00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:16.799 Yeah, I think the biggest things is really, again, reminding yourself that the person across from you is still a person. 00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:24.160 The polarization literature really emphasizes what's known as dehumanization, or you see someone who's not like you as less human. 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:29.279 When you see someone as less human, that leads to all kinds of negative repercussions for that person. 00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:35.200 And so the first thing is to remember that whoever you are arguing with, disagreeing with, they are still a human. 00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:36.880 They still deserve respect. 00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:45.359 You two don't have to come to an agreement, but remembering that you are both humans in this encounter is actually what makes being a human a human. 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:49.440 We're supposed to disagree, we're supposed to agree, we're supposed to learn from each other. 00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:51.759 Um I think that's the biggest thing. 00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:56.799 Um and then knowing that every belief is more complex than you think it is. 00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:04.160 I think when you're in difficult conversations, we have this tendency to think that that belief is just the single fixed belief. 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:10.000 But actually, the the whole picture surrounding whatever that belief may be is much more complicated. 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:21.519 And the person behind it is also much more complicated too, which is why if we can get ourselves out of thinking we're just boys and girls or black people and white people, we are lots of different

things at the same time. 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:21.839 Yeah. 00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:28.960 Most research would suggest that that common identity experience should reduce the anxiety that we're facing in these difficult conversations. 00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:36.000 Yeah, the the tip of the iceberg is one belief, or a belief is only the tip of the iceberg. 00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:39.200 There's so many different things into why that person believes that. 00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:44.559 Maybe an event that happened when they were younger kind of shaped them to go down that road. 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:48.799 Or maybe their family or their friends have kind of led them down that path. 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:55.279 And there's so many different, as we've discussed, contextual kind of pieces that lead people to believing a certain way. 00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:06.000 So not judging them the first time you see them and hear their belief about something and taking a second to kind of step back and understand them and say, huh, they're just a human. 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:07.200 I'm gonna listen. 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:15.759 They probably have a reason for this that's a good reason in their mind, and giving them the benefit of the doubt is gonna prove to be more beneficial for the whole conversation. 00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:20.799 And it's gonna make it a productive one where it feels like everybody's guard can kind of be let down. 00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:28.720 Cause when you're having a conversation that might be difficult or polarized, or there's multiple polarized views, you don't want it to feel tense. 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:40.480 You want it to feel that everybody can share kind of openly with one another because that makes those conversations go easy easier, which for adolescents, stepping out of that comfort zone is much harder. 00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:47.599 So, kind of setting those boundaries and making it an open space where everybody says, you know, that's just another human across from me. 00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:48.880 Their view is their view. 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.920 I'm gonna listen to it and try to understand it for what it is. 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:54.000 If I disagree, that's okay. 00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:55.599 But that's how it's gonna be. 00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:00.319 And that's how we're gonna move through this so that it can be a productive, good conversation in the end. 00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:12.960 So finally, if every teenager and young adult listening could remember one thing the next time they disagree with someone or face a polarized conversation, what would you hope that it would be? 00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:18.559 I think I would just remind people that disagreement is about ideas, right? 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.240 And we're supposed to be able to disagree and to learn from each other. 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:29.839 Polarization is when that disagreement becomes so extreme that you're usually less likely to want to listen to someone who thinks differently from you. 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:38.160 So once you're at that point where you're really not willing to listen to anything someone else has to say, you've gone a little too far in one direction, right? 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:41.200 So remember, disagreeing is 100% okay. 00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:43.519 Curiosity, 100% okay. 00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:47.920 But don't forget that there's always that human on the other side of that disagreement. 00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:58.720 Well, that was such a wonderful way to wrap up our episode in a really good way to kind of group everything that we said together because we're just humans and having disagreements is normal. 00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:17.119 And understanding that disagreeing with someone can prove to be actually really informational and educational is also a good way to just open everyone's minds to things and make things a little bit more communal and community-based so that we can have these difficult conversations that are really good for us. 00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:17.920 So, Dr. 00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:21.359 Gaither, thank you so much for sharing your insights with us today. 00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:24.960 Your research reminds us that our identities are powerful. 00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:31.119 They shape how we connect with others, how we interpret the world, and how we respond when our ideas are challenged. 00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:37.599 But it also shows that understanding those identities can help us build stronger conversations and instead of deeper divisions. 00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:41.200 So, thank you so much for giving your perspective on such a wonderful topic. 00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:43.039 Thanks for having me. 00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:43.920 Be good, everyone. 00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:54.799 And to everyone listening, growing up means forming your own opinions, but it also means learning how to engage with people whose experiences and opinions and beliefs are different from your own. 00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:59.440 Listening isn't the same as agreeing, and asking questions isn't a sign of weakness. 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:04.480 It's often where we understand that everything begins and that understanding grows. 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:12.240 So, in a world that sometimes encourages us to speak first and listen later, choosing curiosity can be one of the most courageous things we can do. 00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:17.359 And choosing curiosity that is a kind curiosity can really prove to be the better decision. 00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:21.200 So thank you for joining me on another episode of Growing Forward. 00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:28.160 I'm so grateful that you are here as we continue to explore the science behind growing up, connecting with others, and understanding ourselves. 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:36.480 Until next time, this is Sadie Sunabore Maliki signing off as always with loads of positivity from this episode of Growing Forward.