บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Literary Screening: The Wild Robot with Tricia Springstubb

book. And how did you first encounter this story, and what draws you to it? Tricia Springstubb (03:15): So I have a nine-year-old granddaughter who is a voracious reader, and up until THE WILD ROBOT, she'd read a lot of good books, but much more happy endings -- sweetness and light books. And so, when she found THE WILD ROBOT and she was, in her own words, "obsessed with it," I thought, "I really need to check this book out." And so, I read it, and I knew Peter Brown as an illustrator, and I had never known him as a writer before. But I thought this book was just extraordinary. And sorry if I talk more about the book than the film but I think they're both terrific. The book has an omniscient voice that actually addresses "Dear Reader," so it's probably most kids' introduction to breaking that fourth wall. It gives the reader a sort of a power, too, because they know things that the characters in the book don't know. I think kids love that, and it also has sweetness to it and a gravity to it that I think is what my granddaughter -- they're fairly dark, both the film and the book. They deal with all kinds of pretty heavy-duty issues. So, I was just so happy to see her step into that world, you know, take a step forward into her reading life. And so, we read the next two books together, and I had the great pleasure of reading along with somebody who was really opening her eyes to what books can be for the first time, and how deeply she could feel everything in the story. So that was a real, extra treat for me, too. And then, of course, we had to go see the movie, which I was very relieved to see, took the story and changed it, but only made it a different animal, but likewise, a wonderful exploration of this circumscribed world of an island, but it's universal in all the lessons and all the characters and all the feelings that it evokes. So, yeah. What did you like about it, Laura? Laura Maylene Walter (05:08): Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, I think that's really special to think about a child and watching their reading evolve and be able to get into something a little deeper, maybe meta, something a little darker. And I was looking at the book as well, and I loved that narrator and I loved how it does give children the ownership. Like, Roz is our robot, right? Like, we're watching her. Yes. She's our robot. I thought that was really lovely, and that is something that I feel can be special to the book. You know, the film is a Dreamworks film. It's wonderfully animated. It's very touching. The emotional scene when Brightbill the goose has to fly away was really affecting. But to get that kind of narrative voice, I feel like that can come across so much more strongly in a book, which I thought was interesting. And when I was looking at the book, I was looking at an edition published after the film came out, and Peter Brown had an author's note kind of explaining that the book includes his original illustrations, which by the way, I love that style. I loved how he stylized the robot in the woods. It was wonderful. But at the end, they included stills from the film, because, of course, the film was so popular, and he had to explain that you might see some scenes in the film -- images that aren't in the book, you know? Because that's what happens with adaptation, right? Even if it's mostly faithful to the book, they have to make a lot of changes to make it into a film. Tricia Springstubb (06:33): Right. And the pacing is really sped up, I think. In the book, there's so many small details of Roz slowly relating to the animals. Laura Maylene Walter (06:42): And more animals. Tricia Springstubb (06:43): And there are more animals. But then again, in the movie, the possum, Pinktail, gets to add that little bit of snark, you know? Laura Maylene Walter (06:52): And her children Tricia Springstubb (06:53): Which is fun. Laura Maylene Walter (06:54): Yeah. Tricia Springstubb (06:54): Yes, and all those children. And Pink becomes, you know, this sidekick. So, it gets a little Disney-esque, but it was all done so well, and like you say, the animation is so beautiful. And there's little hints in there about the second book, which is going take on more, like climate change. He's such a proponent of appreciating the natural world and sort of sinking into it. And I think that's in both the film and the book. And kind of this Garden of Eden, too, that Roz makes, and she takes everybody into the lodge, the prey and the predators, and they all lie down together. Yeah. And those themes of kindness being a survival mechanism, you know? All of that. Laura Maylene Walter (07:37): Yeah. That's one of the themes that stands out in the movie, about whether kindness is a survival skill. Spoiler everyone, by the end it might be Can you imagine if the message was, "No, don't be kind" ? Tricia Springstubb (07:50): Right. Every man for himself Laura Maylene Walter (07:54): Well, you talked about the darkness in the book and the film. And you know, I was a little surprised and delighted that the film, when I watched it, has so much death in it, and Pinktail, Catherine O'Hara, the possum has all her children, of course, clinging to her, and of course, with possums pretending to be dead, is kind of a theme in the film. And her children are often talking about death or joking about it or joking about animals that very well might actually die or have died. So it's dark, but you know, kids need that, and they like that, you know, to try to explore their own feelings about death. So, I thought that was a special part of the film and the book as well. Tricia Springstubb (08:34): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there definitely are questions that children are thinking about, and it provides a safe place where they can consider it on terms other than very personal and think about it and and even maybe discuss it. So I think that's a huge service that books and films for kids can provide. Yeah. Laura Maylene Walter (08:53): There's a

quote from one of the baby possums. "Death's proximity makes life burn all the brighter." It's this little line of poetry just shared by a baby possum. So, I thought that was really great. And then other themes, some of the major themes, of course, are, Brightbill is this orphan goose. Roz the Robot accidentally kills Brightbill's parents and siblings, his entire family. I mean, this is horrible. It's horrifying. And Brightbill is the runt and ends up being raised by Roz, a robot who is an alien figure in their world, and can't really fit in with the other geese when he meets other geese. So, you know, themes of belonging, of fitting in, of finding your place in the world, and feeling safe are all really universal themes that this touches on, that I thought was done in a creative and beautiful way. Kind of an updated "Ugly Duckling" sort of story. Tricia Springstubb (09:49): Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I hadn't thought of that, for sure. Brightbill's finding his people. Laura Maylene Walter (09:54): Yeah, exactly. So in the film version when Roz is kind of shipwrecked in this wilderness and wakes up and is trying to find her task, her assignment -- how she could help, because that's what she's designed to do. But she can't speak to the animals at first, and has to -- the way it's depicted in the film is, she absorbs all of the animals over time, all of their language, and then is able to speak with them. In the book, it's a little bit different. But this made me think, in your life, if you had this ability to learn how to speak an animal language, is there a certain animal that you would most want to be able to speak to? Tricia Springstubb (10:34): Well Laura, you'll like my answer, because it's cats Laura Maylene Walter (10:36): Yes. Tricia Springstubb (10:38): When my kids were little, I used to tell them -- I made this up completely -- that at midnight on Christmas Eve -- we always had cats -- they could speak, and I would ask the kids, "Are there any questions you want me to ask?" Laura Maylene Walter (10:49): That's adorable. Tricia Springstubb (10:50): And then I would report the next day. So yeah and of course, cats are inscrutable. It would be wonderful to be able to penetrate a cat brain. Although maybe we wouldn't really want to know what they're thinking. Laura Maylene Walter (11:02): I was going to say it might be, we might regret it, it might be a little intimidating But no, I agree with you, because I also have cats. So, of course the animals in your life, you'd want to be able to talk to. But it's really fun how Roz ends up being able to speak to everyone. Tricia Springstubb (11:17): Yeah. In the book, her skills of observation really take her so far, and there's so many tiny moments when she's watching what these different animals do and how they live in this. She thinks this is her home, only to find out later that it really isn't, which is shocking for both her and for Brightbill. Her creation story is something she has to discover herself, which is another cool kind of theme. Laura Maylene Walter (11:40): Yeah. That the parental figure is also going through this identity issue. Tricia Springstubb (11:45): And also when Brightbill is ready to leave, his own hesitation to do that, that's a huge theme in all of middle grade literature. You know, the wanting to be safe and the wanting to have independence. And so that tug of war is done so well in the book and the movie, too. Laura Maylene Walter (12:02): Yeah. I also thought, especially for perhaps parents who took their children to see the film, there are themes of parenthood in general, or motherhood, and sometimes, it's quite funny. Catherine O'Hara's possum character I think at one point, uses the phrase "crushing obligation" to discuss motherhood. Tricia Springstubb (12:23): I'm pretty sure all of her lines were put in there to keep the parents watching the film, of course. And laughing. Yeah. Laura Maylene Walter (12:31): But I appreciated that. Yes. Tricia Springstubb (12:33): She's hilarious. I saw it, actually, with my grandchildren and my daughter, their mom. And she and I were exchanging lots of raised eyebrows and smirks. Laura Maylene Walter (12:41): Of course. Yeah. I like that they had to put that in there for the parents watching to show them that this is not all idealized. Right. You choose to raise this orphan goose. And I also thought this scene was very sweet when Roz is building them their home with these giant logs, and Brightbill is a little baby and just wants to contribute twigs and she's sort of exhausted, like, letting him do it but it's not helping, you know Yeah. I thought that was cute. Tricia Springstubb (13:06): Oh, I'm so glad you liked it. Laura Maylene Walter (13:08): Yeah, it was fun. It was definitely fun. So, THE WILD ROBOT is clearly a science fiction story, so it's science fiction, and your writing tends to be more realistic. I would love to transition to talk about your writing a bit, give our listeners an overview of your career as a children's book author, and because I remember when I first met you, I think you were writing some short stories for adults, if I'm remembering correctly. Tricia Springstubb (13:34): So, I have known you a long time. Laura Maylene Walter (13:36): Tell us how you became the children's author that you are today, how that evolved. Tricia Springstubb (13:43): I've always written for both audiences, really. My first published things were for children, and they were more like, in Highlights for Children. And then I did some un-agented books early on. I feel like I have two sections to my career as a kid writer. And early on, I was just submitting into slush piles, and I was lucky enough to have a few editors at different houses take an interest in my work, and then I could send directly to them. So that was way back in the days of typewriters and putting your book in a box and standing in line in the post office to mail it off. So that was the

'80's, the '90's. I had a fairly good career then. At the same time, I was still publishing some fiction -- short fiction and essays for adults. Again, un-agented and just wherever -- some literary magazines. That was in the heyday, when there were magazines like McCall's and Redbook who published pretty, fairly good quality fiction, but that's all gone. Laura Maylene Walter (14:44): Yeah. Tricia Springstubb (14:44): So I have three kids. They were approaching college age. I went back to work in a library, which was a wonderful, wonderful job, a public library in the children's room. So, I had less time to work on my writing. And also the whole publishing scene changed during those years. And so it became pretty much untenable to try to submit, even for children, without an agent, though I kept writing. I really wasn't publishing, but I kept doing both. But I found myself gravitating more and more towards writing middle grade, which I really feel is the best of it, takes everything that I love about writing for adults and everything I love about kids. Pretty much every paid job I've ever had has been working with children and blends the two things together. I was working on a book called, which eventually was called, WHAT HAPPENED ON FOX STREET during those years. And I got it to a point where I felt like, this is good I really want to get this out there. I understood that I had to get myself an agent. That was a big task, as you know, and not much fun. But I did, and I found myself at Greenhouse Literary with an agent who loved WHAT HAPPENED ON FOX STREET, but right off, told me she wasn't sure she'd be able to sell it because it was kind of a quiet book. But she was a huge ally and proponent of my work and went out there, and she got me a two-book contract. And once that happened, I was back That was 2010. Since then, I've published, I think, twelve or thirteen books for kids. I'm the phoenix that rose from the ashes Laura Maylene Walter (16:31): That's amazing. Tricia Springstubb (16:32): And it is a whole new field. I've had to learn a lot, but my faith is still in the power of a good story finding a home. Laura Maylene Walter (16:41): Yeah. So, you mentioned that FOX STREET, your agent called it a quiet book. I know you've used that term before to discuss some of your books, which I just want to stress for listeners, it's not quiet as if nothing happened it's just not a robot being shipwrecked, it's not this big science fiction premise. So, do you want to talk about that a bit? About the place for different kinds of books in the kid-lit world? Like, what would you say to other authors right now working on middle grade that might be, quote-unquote, "quiet" in comparison? Tricia Springstubb (17:11): There are wonderful, quiet, literary books still being published. You know, it's kind of funny to talk about the kids' lit world versus the adult world, because there are so many similarities. I mean, sometimes kids want to read, you know, they're having a really big friendship drama, their best friend has turned her back on them. They really want to read a book that they find themselves in, and they find what they're going through in a story. Other times, you know, they're all up for big-time adventure, a quest, a murder mystery. I mean, it's all available in kids' fiction and in middle grade fiction -- now there's horror, there's everything. It's just like adult fiction, you know, whatever you're looking for on a certain day, you're going to be able to find. I hope my books are in the niche where when kids are feeling kind of alone with something that's going on in their lives, they're going to find that they're not, because they're going to find characters who are going through very similar things. You know, maybe a family divorce, maybe grief, maybe the simple thing of changing, shifting relationships in their friendships or their family, like Amber. And HOW TO TELL A TRUE STORY, a feeling of being like an amoeba, a blob, and searching for her identity and who she really is. So I hope my books are -- kids will, you know, read along and feel like, "Oh, wait a minute, here I am," "and so I'm not alone." And like we were saying earlier, some of these really difficult issues, kids can come through them in a safe way because it's on the page but it's them. Laura Maylene Walter (18:50): Absolutely. I was thinking a lot when I read Amber's story and HOW TO TELL A TRUE STORY about my own being in a trio of girlfriends in sixth and seventh grade. Amber is a seventh grader, and all those social dynamics, and the drama, and the tension, and the joy, and the misery And so for listeners who aren't familiar with HOW TO TELL A TRUE STORY, the premise is that Amber, a seventh grader, her house burns down. She has an older brother named Gage and a little sister, Clancy. And one night their house burns down. Gage ends up saving Amber by going up to the attic where she's asleep and getting her. So, there is quite a dramatic incident that happens in the book when they lose their house, and then they have to kind of rebuild, and there's family tension, and they don't have their home and their stuff anymore, their clothes. And I will just say, this is a little bit connected to THE WILD ROBOT in terms of joking about death. One of my favorite parts is, they have a pet hamster. And this is sad, but the hamster doesn't make it out of the fire. But the little sister Clancy keeps saying that he was "insinuated" by the fire, instead of incinerated And I just thought, how wonderful to make me laugh at a beloved pet hamster going down in a fire, but I'm laughing at it. Tricia Springstubb (20:06): Yeah, thank you. Because you know, when I write my books, I always try to have some humor in them. And a lot of times, people will say, "Oh my God, your book, I was crying." And I'm like, "Yeah, but weren't you laughing a little bit too?" So, I'm glad you picked up on that. Laura Maylene Walter (20:21): What

was the hamster's name? Iggy -- Iggy the hamster. I mean, Iggy the hamster, R.I.P., I don't know Well, there's also a lot of really fun wordplay that I loved. Like, one of Amber's nicknames is, I think, Lamborghini. You know, stuff like that. And Clancy, the little sister, is obsessed with the musk ox. Like, that's her obsession, which is just so fun. You know how little kids get hooked on one thing. And so that was really great. But at large, it's a story about telling the truth -- being truthful. You know, Amber also has a lot of complications with her friend group. She's got two best friends. There's always something about girls that age in threes, I feel like. But can you talk about that a bit, about Amber and her friendship dynamic? Tricia Springstubb (21:08): Yeah, I did want this story to take into account, of course, friendship, and like you say, the ebb and flow of friendship during those years. I also wanted to reflect how social media nowadays affects kids' identities and their friendships, how they view themselves and how they are viewed by others. And so, I think one of the ideas of HOW TO TELL A TRUE STORY is that Amber has had this pretty traumatic event in her life and she shared it with her brother. But the story starts to get out of her control, because her friends and her school community start to want to raise money for her. And she becomes sort of a celebrity in the school, and they cast her brother as a hero, and her as this member of this strong family that came through this tragedy. And the truth, that Amber starts to slowly notice, is a lot more complicated than that. So Amber is, besides all the old classic pull and tug of friendships at this age, she's got to deal with a viral kind of definition of who she is, and what her friendship is, and who her family is. I really wanted to talk about that. And I think truth is maybe a little bit more complicated than it used to be when I was growing up. I wanted to give Amber all that to deal with. And the idea of truth being, you have your own truth, but it might not be the truth that every -- and I think that's also just in general a part of this age. When you're younger, you think -- little kids think they're the center of the universe, and a big part of growing up and maturing is understanding that no, , you're not. There's a wider world out there, and you're going to be viewed differently by different people. I wanted to put all of that in there, too. Laura Maylene Walter (22:54): Yeah. Speaking of social media and Amber, what are your methods? So you're writing contemporary middle grade, so how do you stay up with keeping it current and relevant and believable for kids reading it today? Because we didn't have to worry about these things when we were twelve, with social media and everything. So how do you stay up on what the kids are doing? Tricia Springstubb (23:17): I'm not that up, to tell you the truth. And actually, I think one of the perils of writing about these kinds

of things is that somebody who's going to pick up this book two years from now is going to see a whole different landscape out there of what viral life is. So I try to be somewhat vague-ish about it, but I do think that texting and that method of communication is going to be there, and also that there are going to be more and more -- I mean, our lives are going to be on screens. I really think -- no doubt about that. I just tried to really work that in without being too specific. And like I said, to put it in the larger framework of this is how it always has been, that we are, during these years, self-identity -- Amber, at one point, she has changed over the course of this story, but a little symbolism of the amber and something's trapped inside. She's wondering, "Am I still the same person I was, or am I new person, or am I both?" So, putting all of that and bringing the lens of social media on it a little bit. Laura Maylene Walter (24:21): And another big theme is guilt, of course, as Amber starts to discover maybe things aren't as they seem in terms of her brother being the hero in this house fire. And also pride, because her father absolutely doesn't want any of what he calls charity at all, of people trying to help them. And of course, I'm thinking, just take the help. You lost everything in the fire But we all know that not everyone has that point of view. And she's just grappling with her family basically being torn apart. She and her mother and Clancy go to live with an aunt, which is this really fun house full of people and kids and animals, and just everyone's running around and yelling. But having this new kind of family dynamic while she lost everything, I thought that was really great too. You write the bustling house very well, in terms of keeping track of everyone and everyone's running around, you can really feel the loving, chaotic energy, I would say. Tricia Springstubb (25:15): Amber finds out more about herself during that experience of living with these other people, too. I mean, she's always wondering who she is. Her best friends, one is a genius, one is a soccer star. You know, who is she? What are her strengths? And she slowly starts to realize that she's very tuned in to other people and the nuances of other people's experiences. And that can be hard, very hard, 'cause she's always sizing up where her parents are with each other at the same time. It's a real strength. Laura Maylene Walter (25:45): Even the antagonists are treated as full people who maybd have backgrounds or reasons why things are difficult for them. The really popular, snotty girl, it turns out she has a difficult father. One of the boys who seems to always act out, it turns out his brother just went to juvenile detention. Things are really tough. So, maybe you'd like to talk about kindness, or about how Amber is able to get a glimpse at how people aren't just all bad or all good. They have complicated lives and histories. Tricia Springstubb (26:17): The

theme of the fundraiser is kindness. And I think kids of all ages are just capable of such incredible and deep empathy. It's really one of their strengths. My same granddaughter that turned me on to THE WILD ROBOT books when she was really small, and I would hold her on my lap and we would read together, she would point at a boy or a child of color, or an old lady, you know, somebody obviously not her, in a book that she was really drawn into. And she goes, "Oh, that's me." . And I think that's, like I said, that's such a natural thing for kids. I really wanted to honor that, and the idea of kindness. But kindness is, I almost hate to say this, but it's almost become a buzzword and somewhat in schools. You see these signs, "Be kind," "Just be kind," you know? And of course, everybody can endorse that, but it's a little harder than you think to be truly, truly kind. These kids, you mentioned Kelly B. and Maxwell, and then there's another girl, Jessie, who's a real loner. And Amber has never really -- as sweet and lovely a character as she is, she's never really -- it's always been "them," you know, and then "me." She's never bridged that they could have anything in common until she herself becomes someone who's lost everything and suffered some real heavy-duty stuff and whose parents are in danger of splitting. And so, little by little, she comes to understand, even her best friend, Lottie, who lost a parent when they were young, Amber starts to realize, "Whoa, I never really understood what she was going through." So, I think one of the things that I want to come out in the book is, true kindness takes a kind of curiosity and a kind of courage to really try to put yourself in other people's shoes. You know, not just loan your pencil to the kid that doesn't have one, or smile at the kid that nobody else wants to hang out with. But really to extend yourself and to recognize yourself in that other person. So that was another one of the themes that I really hoped that kids would come away thinking about a little more, and maybe talking about. Laura Maylene Walter (28:35): Yeah. And I think it does that beautifully. HOW TO TELL A TRUE STORY, I believe I saw on the publisher's website that it's recommended for ages twelve to fourteen, and I was just curious about that, because it strikes me as maybe a slightly in-between space, like in between middle grade and YA. I wonder if you can talk about that for our listeners who maybe are writing for younger kids. You know, obviously, you tell the story you want to tell, the way you want to tell it. But in terms of those age breakdowns, how much are you thinking about that when you're working on a book? Tricia Springstubb (29:08): You're exactly right. I mean, you write the voice that comes to you and the story that comes to you, and that's how you tell it. And fire is pretty scary stuff. Primal, you know, there's a lot of primal fear around fire and I wanted that to be central to the story. And Amber does suffer a little bit of post-traumatic stress, as she naturally would. But I knew that was at the heart of the story, that there was going to be this really destructive force right off the bat in the book. That made me feel like, well, maybe this does shift a little bit older, and that's what I wrote. And then I came, to my delight, I came to find out exactly what you're saying afterwards, that there's a real push now in schools and in libraries. Teachers and librarians see this need for books that fall in that hinge that you're talking about. You know, kids don't really want to read THE WILD ROBOT anymore, but they're not really ready for a Mindy McGinnis, HEROINE story. They actually gave it a name now. It's called "young teen lit." Laura Maylene Walter (30:07): Okay, interesting. Tricia Springstubb (30:09): Yeah. It's going to be for those kids that are in older middle grade and younger high school that we assume would be the audience for these books. So that was really nice to find out that I had written for a genre that I didn't yet know existed Laura Maylene Walter (30:23): I think that's a good lesson too, of not thinking too much about what you're writing or how it would be categorized, because that sort of isn't our job, right? It's a marketing thing that has nothing to do with us, and you just have to write the authentic story. Tricia Springstubb (30:36): And of course, younger kids than that are going to read this book, I hope, and older kids too. So yeah, the where does it fit on the shelf thing is a real question that librarians have to ask and teachers have to ask. But kids, I hope kids will just go where they need to go and want to go. Laura Maylene Walter (30:53): Can you give us some insight into your writing process or routine, either for this book specifically, or your writing practice overall? Because you said you published, what, twelve books since 2010, which is a lot. So tell us about your process. Tricia Springstubb (31:08): My process is extremely messy. This book specifically started with an idea that came to me when I was at an assembly where a child who had suffered a fire -- a family fire, they lost everything. And the school had raised money to give this girl a whole new home library. So it was wonderful, you know, everybody felt so happy, and the child was so grateful, and I was sitting in the audience, a little bit teary, but also thinking, "Hey, maybe she didn't really want books," you know? Maybe she'd rather have a new collection of stuffies, or games...so, it got me thinking a lot about kindness and the give and take of all that. So, there's always some kind of moment that gets me thinking and asking questions and making notes, but there's always, at the same time, an impatience. So it's almost like, I feel like I don't want to let this get away from me, so I just start writing . That means that I do tremendous amounts of revising. I start out with a character in mind, but I don't really have the character

until, like I said, that voice comes to me. I find the only way to get that is to write. I just write my way into it. You know, I write and I write and then I find my character saying something or doing something in a certain situation that I'm like, "Oh yeah, okay, okay." My characters don't appear full-form. They're like one of those Kodak photos, you know, like, slowly the image comes out Laura Maylene Walter (32:52): I like that. Tricia Springstubb (32:52): And then, even then, I kind of hope I know where I'm going, but I don't, often. So I'm one of those people who would say I'm not that good a writer, but I'm an excellent rewriter. So revision is really, really key. And I love revision. HOW TO TELL A TRUE STORY -- I tried -- I'm always being categorized as somebody with character-driven books, which I'm fine with, but I wanted this to be a little more plotty, if possible. So, I really worked hard on keeping the sections short and trying to have each scene end with a "let's turn that page." Tried to keep a little bit more suspense going. So that was a big part of revising it, too, and trying to keep it short. Laura Maylene Walter (33:33): I really love what you said about not wanting it to get away from you, so you just start writing it even when you don't know where it's going or what it is. I'm very similar, but yeah, this is something I tell people all the time when they're anxious about writing or worried about a project that they haven't even started yet. And it's like, well, you can't really worry about it in the abstract. Just get in there and start writing it. You know, and it won't be what you think it should be at first, but that's the life of a writer, I suppose. Tricia Springstubb (34:00): I have also been lucky, very lucky with my agent, and I have a second agent now, because the first one retired, but both of them were previously editors, so I work pretty much to get something to the point where I don't think I can make it any better. I never show drafty things to my editor, but once I do, she will give me a lot of editorial feedback. That's really crucial, too. And of course, my writing group Laura Maylene Walter (34:27): I was going to ask about -- you live in Cleveland -- how being in Ohio, being in Cleveland, how that has been a part of your writing life, affected your writing life? What does it mean to you to do all your writing in Cleveland? Tricia Springstubb (34:41): Well, as you know, Laura, it's a very generous and very generative writing community in Ohio in general, and in Cleveland for sure. And especially, they're wonderful people to learn from and who are themselves looking for feedback, like in our group, and I'm almost in another writing group, so there's that. And then in Ohio, generally, I know your podcast covers the whole state. There's a huge children's writing community, and sometimes I wish I lived in Columbus, 'cause there's a real big clump of people there that support each other all the time. I can't really compare to other places, but maybe compared to some -- maybe, we're East-Coasty communities. I feel like people here are just -- they extend themselves. And sure there's some competition, but I think the generosity is the main thing. Laura Maylene Walter (35:35): Absolutely. Well, I think as we start to wrap up, I do want to ask you just broadly, we won't give any major spoilers about the end of HOW TO TELL A TRUE STORY, because one thing I loved about the ending is, it's a little bit ambiguous. Just not everything is wrapped up, or not everything is projected out about exactly how things will fall out. Maybe you have an idea, but you don't know. So I'm wondering if you could talk about that a bit, about having an ending with a little room for leaving space for the reader to think about it, and how you worked on that ending, or just any philosophies you might have about endings in books for kids. Tricia Springstubb (36:12): I'm happy if you liked the ending, because it gave me a huge amount of trouble and headache trying to end it. I hope there's a lot of suspense and there's a buildup to a big climactic moment. But then, I had all kinds of loose ends that were still out there that I couldn't just leave, but I didn't want the ending to feel tidy, and I didn't want it to feel anticlimactic, like, "Then A, B, C happened." And I think the nature of the book is that there's ambiguity about a lot of things and how life changes, and I worked towards that. Giving the themes of the book their due, but not saying "and they all lived happily ever after." This is a sister-brother book at heart. To me, that's one of the things that I felt deeply as I was writing it. I really wanted to give those last moments to Amber and to Gage. That was kind of a natural place to end. Laura Maylene Walter (37:13): Is there anything you can share with us about what you might be working on next? Tricia Springstubb (37:18): I have a book out on submission right now. Laura Maylene Walter (37:20): So, I'm sure you want to talk about that at length Tricia Springstubb (37:24): Yeah, I have nothing more to say than that. Laura Maylene Walter (37:27): Gotcha. New Speaker (37:27): And I'm also working on another, I guess it's a young teen -- whoops, now that I know that term -- novel that's a comic romance and it's based on a clueless, hopeless crush that I had in eighth grade So I'm having a lot of fun writing about that and trying my best to keep it light which is hard for me, 'cause I always want to go into the nuanced, dark places, but I'm really trying to just keep it a fun, Judy Blume-ish voice. That's in process. Laura Maylene Walter (38:01): That sounds like a lot of fun. Clueless, hopeless eighth-grade crushes. What a dream Tricia Springstubb (38:06): Yeah, right? Laura Maylene Walter (38:07): Who hasn't had one of those? Who hasn't? Well, this has been lovely, Tricia. Thank you. I thought as we wrap up, I wanted to share a quote from Mrs. O., who is one of Amber's teachers, and she says, "When I retire, there are things about teaching I won't miss, but puzzling out the world alongside you children -- that I will miss very, very much," which I just thought was really touching and sweet. And thank you for helping kids puzzle out the world through your books. Tricia Springstubb (38:40): Aw, thank you for this and for everything you do. I mean, for your own work, number one, but also for everything you do to just spread the news about this amazing writing community that we have in Ohio. And to spur readers on. Laura Maylene Walter (39:04): Page Count is presented by the Ohio Center for the Book at Cleveland Public Library. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and leave a review for Page Count wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more online, or find the edited transcript for this episode at cpl.org/podcast/page-count. Follow us on Instagram at Ohio Center for the Book, or find us on Facebook. If you'd like to get in touch, email ohiocenterforthebook@cpl.org, and put "podcast" in the subject line. Thanks for listening, and we'll be back in two weeks for another chapter of Page Count.