บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Low-Demand Parenting for Very Type-A People

and he has this, we, yeah- Oh, my... he had to go down to this, the basement fridge. 16 00:02:36.180 --> 00:02:48.220 And but yeah, so I said, "No. You do it." And I should've said, "I b- I believe in you, you can do it," but I was so annoyed that he was like, so the laziness is so extreme. Oh, the laziness is real. It's horrible. 17 00:02:48.420 --> 00:03:00.040 It's horrible. It's like I just took, and we'll probably talk about this, but I just took four 14-year-olds to Disneyland, and I will never do it again. I will never do it again. Oof. 18 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:07.380 It was, it was a horrible experience. And I was like, "I'm not supposed to feel this way here," you know what I mean? This is my bubble. Mm-hmm. Happiest place on Earth. 19 00:03:07.380 --> 00:03:15.980 Um, just because of, like, how ridiculous they are. I mean, I have to go, I think we have to dive right into this, and we can circle back to our setup and everything, but talk, go r- go to where- Sure, sure... 20 00:03:16.020 --> 00:03:23.620 you thought taking fourt- four 14-year-olds to Disneyland would not be bad. Tell me where your head space was when you were- Mm-hmm... like, thinking, this might be fun. 21 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:29.360 Well, I've been taking, you know, my kids both since they were born, so Desmond knows the park. 22 00:03:29.480 --> 00:03:38.040 There's two parks, Disneyland, for those not familiar with Disneyland in Anaheim, there's Disneyland, and then there's Disney California Adventure. 23 00:03:38.060 --> 00:03:50.020 And you can walk in between them, and he's been going since he's been born, so he knows them very well. And for the past two years, so over Martin Luther King Jr. 24 00:03:50.100 --> 00:03:57.280 weekend, I, we've taken both of our kids and then one of Desmond's friends. And I mean, they were goofy. 25 00:03:57.340 --> 00:04:07.380 They were, like, laughing all the time and just being, you know, inside jokes and just being really annoying, but it was never bad. I would, it was never something where I was like, "This has gotten bad." 26 00:04:07.380 --> 00:04:24.260 It was horrible. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It did not ruin- Age appropriate... my time or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. This time it was those same two, another friend who is a year older and much more mature, so there's hope. Mm-hmm. 27 00:04:24.300 --> 00:04:35.580 And we kinda just let them run around, and we would have them come back for, to meet with us for a meal or a certain ride or whatever, and they were constantly late. We could track them. 28 00:04:35.620 --> 00:04:46.960 We were seeing that they were, like, running all over the place. They were, one of 'em got banned on a ride for taking off his sweatshirt, ripping it around on this rollercoaster [laughs]. 29 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:53.320 Just, you know, things like that, where we're just like- And-... what are you thinking? You know. Just what are you thinking? Um, so- I tell Claire this all the time. 30 00:04:53.460 --> 00:05:01.400 I'm, half the time I'm not even mad, I'm just going, "Talk to me about how we got here." Why? Like, why? Right. Right. What made you think- Like, why did you choose to do this? Yeah. Yeah. 31 00:05:01.460 --> 00:05:10.040 So it was, it was definitely one of those where I just was kind of like, this is not what I, how I wanna feel here. This is not why I come here. Mm-hmm. 32 00:05:10.500 --> 00:05:20.420 So I mean, and my husband wants to deal with them, and it was just me, another mom, and these three boys, and I, I do think, unfortunately, that they would not have done all of this with my husband. 33 00:05:20.500 --> 00:05:30.900 He just scares them more, quite frankly. Mm-hmm. And so I think there was a level of, we can get away with this, you know, too, so that's not- Yeah... cool. Well, I hope that you can re- I am. 34 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:38.260 I'm- You know, we'll talk more about Disney a little, but I hope you can redeem the trip, um, and then- I will. I'm going back in two months with no children, so. Okay. [laughs] Nice. 35 00:05:39.100 --> 00:05:48.300 So Erika, I was trying to remember, explain to Quinn, like, how we first got in touch, 'cause you- Yes... I knew you before- It was Mark Brown... I think we were... Okay, yes. Who we've had on the podcast. 36 00:05:48.380 --> 00:05:55.760 He and his wife Megan- Yeah... and their kids- Yes... have a great movie review podcast. Yes. Yes... so, uh- Back in the day... yeah, you went to Michigan with Mark. Yeah. 37 00:05:55.940 --> 00:06:02.940 So, um- I went to preschool and elementary school and junior high with Mark. I've known Mark since second grade. Wow, okay. Oh, wow. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 38 00:06:03.340 --> 00:06:12.764 And we both write, wrote about TV and pop culture and things like that in Chicago, and then we both had our first... sons around the same time. 39 00:06:12.884 --> 00:06:21.964 You were like a couple months ahead, which meant that you were a wonderful hand-me-down pipeline. It was like, it was great. I would- I forgot about that. Yeah... drive up to your house, load up. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 40 00:06:22.004 --> 00:06:29.204 That was amazing. We still have a lot of huge Tupperwares that al- also, nobody talks about how much you need huge Tupperwares when you become a parent for- Yeah... 41 00:06:29.324 --> 00:06:40.804 hanging onto clothes, storing clothes, anything like that. So- Bins, the bins. Yes. Uh, evil witch, original evil witch, you know, Fart Cops fan. Yeah, OG evil witch. Keeping it real. Yes. Yeah. 42 00:06:40.804 --> 00:06:52.004 [laughs] So, you had talked, so you sent me a text saying, "I wanna come on Not Right Now, and I wanna talk about m- how important, how strongly I feel that moms should take solo trips, and also-" Yes... P- PDA." 43 00:06:52.124 --> 00:06:57.224 And I was like- Yes... why not both things? I feel like they have to be sort of intertwined. They're very connected. Yeah. It is. Yeah. It is. 44 00:06:57.264 -->

00:07:06.464 Quinn, before we dive in, Quinn, talk about, have you heard of PDA before I mentioned it to you, do you think? I put, I put it in the notes. I thought this was like, 'cause so we just did a whole bit on- Yeah... 45 00:07:06.984 --> 00:07:18.064 on high school dances and middle school dances. I was like- Oh... "Oh, and now we're talking about PDA. We are, we are do- like, what is acceptable now? I don't know. Is anything, are they still under bleachers? 46 00:07:18.124 --> 00:07:30.364 Is it outsi- I don't understand." Like most things, I was incorrect. So no, tell me what PDA is. I have no idea. Yeah, I mean, I do think, I do think most people still think it's public displays of affection. 47 00:07:30.444 --> 00:07:36.044 And- And it, it, I mean, it, it, this is very niche thing that you wouldn't know unless you needed to know it. 48 00:07:36.144 --> 00:07:47.864 So the term, or I guess the definition they're trying to get away from, 'cause it's not the most PC for PDA, is pathological demand avoidance. 49 00:07:48.064 --> 00:07:55.164 And so anytime you hear the word pathological, you're gonna be like, "Oh my God, your kid's really bad and knocks- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm... down stuff." So they're trying to, 50 00:07:56.064 --> 00:08:07.524 and it's not really all about demand avoidance, it's really more what they now prefer, which is pervasive drive for autonomy, meaning control. True. 51 00:08:08.064 --> 00:08:18.624 So, you know, the demand avoidance is really more like they want, people with PDA want to be in control of all of their decisions. They want autonomy. 52 00:08:18.684 --> 00:08:28.924 They don't want anybody telling them anything, pretty much including society and just even norms like going to the bathroom, brushing your teeth, stuff like that. So- Like baby libertarians... 53 00:08:28.964 --> 00:08:37.204 um, that's kind of the definition. [laughs] That's, yeah, it's like perhaps. But yeah, so it's kind of the, kind of the, 54 00:08:39.364 --> 00:08:53.304 it's, it's usually, and so I mean, it's usually paired with autism, so I mean, it's, it's usually not its own thing. So my daughter has autism level one, which is, which is like very low. 55 00:08:53.384 --> 00:09:03.084 You know, there, it's a spectrum- Mm-hmm... they say. So you know, she was getting all A's in school. She has a, uh, she's popular. She has a big group of friends. You know, she has eye contact. 56 00:09:03.144 --> 00:09:14.564 She does not do a lot of the stereotypical things, you know, like flapping her hands or anything like that. But again, PDA is normally associated, it, they call it like a profile of autism. 57 00:09:15.264 --> 00:09:27.004 A lot of times when I describe what it is, the f- and I, this happened just last week with one of my old classmates. He was like, "Well, do you know what oppositional defiant disorder is?" 58 00:09:27.744 --> 00:09:40.264 And I was like, "I do know what that is," and that they're similarly presenting sometimes, PDA

and, you know, ODD, but they're coming from very different places. 59 00:09:40.284 --> 00:09:55.984 So like PDA is fully driven by, you know, anxiety and this fear, almost like a primal fight or flight fear of losing autonomy or control, whereas oppositional defiant disorder is driven by anger. 60 00:09:56.544 --> 00:10:00.544 Anger, they wanna challenge authority, like that's their thing. 61 00:10:00.744 --> 00:10:13.944 So ODD is a formal recognized diagnosis, like that's been around for a long time, and even in the beginning, like some are, they originally were like, "Oh, does she have ODD?" Yeah. PDA is not an official diagnosis. 62 00:10:14.604 --> 00:10:28.604 It's relatively kind of like new and, you know, talking about it in kind of the autism comm- community, and it's also usually not identified as like a standalone. It's usually paired, you know, with, with autism. 63 00:10:28.724 --> 00:10:46.044 So I feel, you know, PDA is a lot of, you know, using like social strategies and manipulation to like kind of still be in control, whereas ODD in like directly arguing, you know, conflicting, blame shifting, it's much more about anger. 64 00:10:46.304 --> 00:10:57.864 That makes sense. So talk a little bit about, 'cause I don't imagine you knew about PDA up until- No... your daughter- Not a-... was a certain age. So talk a little bit about how- Yes... 65 00:10:57.924 --> 00:11:00.624 you came to know what it is and see it in your, in your kid. 66 00:11:01.724 --> 00:11:15.604 I mean, we really lucked out and, and this is something that I feel like kind of breaks my heart when I think about other parents who might just have no idea about this because we just had a great therapist who was, who, who knew about this. 67 00:11:15.684 --> 00:11:25.844 She knew about certain other things like vision therapy, which I'd never heard of, which is, you know, just something having to do with a child's control of their eyes. 68 00:11:25.944 --> 00:11:39.604 Like, but not necessarily about like problems with your eyes. It's, was really crazy. But she also knew about PDA and kind of as time went on with her seeing my daughter, she was like, "You know what? 69 00:11:40.284 --> 00:11:53.844 I think you need to look into this." And then we actually had to transition away from her as our therapist because she did not, she didn't feel like a traditional therapist, and this is a very big issue. Mm-hmm. 70 00:11:54.384 --> 00:12:06.444 Or like a hard part of this. Traditional therapy does not work for PDA kids. Pretty much no traditional parenting strategy or anything works for PDA kids. 71 00:12:06.484 --> 00:12:16.844 Like rewards and consequences are literally the worst thing that you could do for, because both of them feel like demands and threats to like a PDA child. So kind of like- 72 00:12:17.804 --> 00:12:25.244 All these parenting books, you know, my husband and I had read, like, out the window, nothing Nothing applies here. So br- bribes don't work? No. 73 00:12:25.364 --> 00:12:37.144 Oh, bribes, bribes can sometimes work, because again, it's a very, like, manipula- and they're not trying to be manipulative. Like, this is their strategy. No, I wanna manipulate them. I want to bribe them. Right. 74 00:12:37.924 --> 00:12:47.964 Right, right. Yes. Yeah. Yes. No, no, no, no. That can sometimes work. So right now, my daughter is not wanting to go out of the house, but she is down for donuts and sweets. 75 00:12:48.204 --> 00:12:58.524 So my husband wanted to go see a friend who was running the Chicago Marathon. He's like, "I will take you to Stan's. It's right there where we watch them," and she went. Okay. So it's, you know, sometimes... 76 00:12:58.724 --> 00:13:07.384 But then again, it's kind of like she wants that, so that's her choosing, "I want a donut," and then there you go. Feels like Inception. 77 00:13:08.044 --> 00:13:11.844 It's totally- And truly, like, where you're constantly going, like, the different levels of- Oh, you're so right there. 78 00:13:11.904 --> 00:13:17.744 I gotta tell my husband Or what's the end of, what's the end of Unusual Suspects, right, where he walks away with the, in the limosine? Yes. Exactly. Yeah, and you're looking around you're like, "What?" 79 00:13:17.744 --> 00:13:31.284 Right, where you're just like, wait, I gotta rewatch the movie now, and I imagine that's gotta be exhausting. It is, and so one of the main things for parents to do with PDA, since nothing can really be a demand, 80 00:13:32.304 --> 00:13:41.764 is completely change how you talk. And so as Clare knows, I'm a very blunt person. So your ch- your daughter's is your second kid. So- Yes... 81 00:13:41.824 --> 00:13:54.764 talk a little bit about what you were seeing in her that made you and the therapist r- realize that she was approaching demands or requests or things like that differently than your son or other kids that, that you had been around. 82 00:13:55.884 --> 00:13:56.164 Sure. 83 00:13:56.344 --> 00:14:11.424 Well, now, you know, in retrospect, like they always say, "Hindsight's 20/20," but so one ex- one example n- I now know is 100% PDA is, so there are kids that, all kids, I mean, that I've ever met might have issues, like with potty training. 84 00:14:11.464 --> 00:14:16.164 Maybe they, like, hold poop or they're scared to go poop or, you know, whatever. But 85 00:14:17.244 --> 00:14:29.764 PDA kids often see things like going to the bathroom, taking a shower, brushing your teeth as, like, demands, kind of like societal demands. They don't even realize it, but they know, "I'm supposed to do that." Mm-hmm. 86 00:14:29.964 --> 00:14:44.464 So one time, Summer would not go to the bathroom. It was like 16 hours, and we had... So we had gotten up in the morning, gone to O'Hare or Midway, whatever, taken a flight to Arizona, and it was now like nighttime. 87 00:14:44.684 --> 00:14:55.244 In Arizona, which was, you know, two, two hours later in Chicago, she had not gone to the

bathroom that entire time. I called the pediatricians. They're like, "Take her to the ER. She's gotta go." You know? 88 00:14:55.284 --> 00:15:07.864 And then when we were about to do that, all of a sudden, like, now she doesn't wanna go to the hou- so it was, like, extreme, like it was extreme withholding. Like, not healthy, you know? 89 00:15:08.064 --> 00:15:13.704 So that was kind of one, one early thing that I d- you know, I didn't realize then. 90 00:15:14.444 --> 00:15:26.904 Later on, she was in pre-K and kindergarten during COVID, and there was a lot of just, you know, slamming do- I mean, again, I don't know, you know, in retrospect if this is that different, but there was a lot of, like, 91 00:15:28.144 --> 00:15:36.904 she, if she was asked something directly, she would just slam down, you know, th- like, there was no kind of putting her on the spot if she didn't wanna talk. 92 00:15:37.064 --> 00:15:53.104 We learned that, you know, unless she raises her hand, like, we could not have a teacher call on her. What started happening later, and, and so this is really, like, a, a, a main issue of PDA is school refusal. So 93 00:15:54.704 --> 00:16:00.044 we started seeing in third grade, and it kind of breaks my heart, 'cause she knows. She's like, "Third grade's when everything changed." 94 00:16:00.344 --> 00:16:08.144 So I mean, a lot of this behavior, we di- did not really present itself until third grade and later. So for example, 95 00:16:09.364 --> 00:16:23.584 she accidentally kicked a ball into, you know, at recess, like, onto Broadway, which is a major street here in Chicago, and she ran after it. And the recess aides, as they should have, were like, "Hey, don't do that." 96 00:16:24.564 --> 00:16:36.443 She immediately went in, called home sick. I came and got her not knowing what had happened. And this is the other problem. Like, she won't tell us stuff a year later when the threat is gone. So- Hmm... 97 00:16:36.544 --> 00:16:47.644 we found out later that they had, you know, she had gotten af- or she had gotten in trouble by the recess aides, and she then didn't go to school for three days after that. 98 00:16:47.804 --> 00:16:59.984 And to this day, s- three, four years later, she will not look at them. She will not talk at them. It's like extreme, you know, fight or flight like type of thing. Hmm. And then same with school refusal. 99 00:17:00.164 --> 00:17:16.064 Like, school refusal is very, very common in the PDA community, because it's a, it's a demand, and not only is just going to school, leaving the house, getting dressed on time, all these things a demand, but then at school, you know, line up. 100 00:17:16.104 --> 00:17:18.884 I mean, think about school. Like, every- literally everything's a demand. Yeah. Yeah. 101 00:17:18.904 --> 00:17:49.464 And so when she started, like, not going a few days a week, a f- few more days, and then, like, straight up stopped, that was, you know, when I really got into it, because that's, you know, when we kind of sought out PDA North America, we're very lucky, it was founded by a woman here in Chicago, and it's a great, great, great nonprofit that has webinars about all of this, you know, speakers all the time, and that's when I started realizing, whoa, she has every single one of these- Hmm... 102 00:17:49.884 --> 00:18:00.524 you know, every single one of these kind of like definitions of the symptoms or traits or whatever. But it's, you know, I can see why parents might think, "Oh, they're just being stubborn." 103 00:18:00.764 --> 00:18:09.024 One of the things that I realized was definitely a PDA thing is when the child actually wants to do something but will not do it. 104 00:18:09.644 --> 00:18:20.704 So for example, she asked us to sign her up for a Taylor Swift camp at School of Rock, and then it, the time comes around to go, she wouldn't go. You know, so like she wants- Did she give a reason why? 105 00:18:21.264 --> 00:18:30.536 It's like she will say, "I can't. I, I c- my body won't." Let me go, you know? And so, I mean, a lot of people are like, "Well, why don't you just do that?" Why... It's not helpful. 106 00:18:30.716 --> 00:18:41.516 Like, you can't take a 80-pound child or, you know, however much, and just, like, ta- you know, drag 'em. I mean, it's not... And that's, you know, very, very traumatic, like, as well. Sure. 107 00:18:41.556 --> 00:18:52.076 An- another thing with PDA about the whole fight or flight, and this is before she started taking certain medication, but she would run away. Because again, if she felt like 108 00:18:53.596 --> 00:19:04.676 we were having her do something she didn't wanna do, she would just leave. So I mean, she would, she ran out- 'Cause-... in traffic in, in Tokyo, in New Zealand. 109 00:19:04.776 --> 00:19:15.016 She ran away and got two miles at my parents' house in Michigan, had to be, like, caught by the police b- and strung up by, like, her ankles and- And-... wrists because yeah, it was horrible. 110 00:19:15.136 --> 00:19:25.056 I mean, a- and, and so then we did, you know, start, like, a mood stabilizer medicine that changed all of our lives. Like, it was, it was great, but it was really tough. 111 00:19:25.096 --> 00:19:30.096 Like, there, there was a period there where we were just terrified. Oh, that's horrible. 112 00:19:30.236 --> 00:19:39.976 Well, at that point, you guys are, are, not to simplify, but sounds like she, she sees and experiences you the same way she does those people at school who asked her to do that thing- Mm-hmm... which is, like, avoid. 113 00:19:40.016 --> 00:19:46.256 Yes. Yeah. Well, yeah. And, and so one of the things is that- Sorry. She's-... you have to, yeah, it's just really tough. 114 00:19:46.296 --> 00:19:58.496 And so one of the things is that you, so part of the reasons with re- rewards and consequences is that there's a lot of shame in rewards and consequences, and it's kind of like, 115 00:19:59.536 --> 00:20:10.156 you

know, and I mean, this is kind of interesting to me because it's actually been proven that rewards and consequences don't actually work. 116 00:20:10.216 --> 00:20:20.756 That's not actually how your brain works, so it's kind of like the message you're giving is, like, good people earn good things, but the bad people, you know, don't. 117 00:20:21.436 --> 00:20:31.736 And, and that has been a very, same with learning how to not say things in a demand. "Time to get up, time to go to school." I mean, these are just things that come out of your mouth. Sure. 118 00:20:31.976 --> 00:20:42.916 And I'm hor- I'm horrible, like I have- The stuff we say to ourselves... zero filter. But my husband is very good at it. So if it's, you know, time to go somewhere, he won't be like, "Come on, we gotta go." 119 00:20:43.336 --> 00:20:53.036 He'll be like, "Race you to the door." Mm-hmm. And then she'll do it. So it's really, and, and like you said, it's like an inception. It's like you're always having to think, how do I say this? 120 00:20:53.456 --> 00:21:01.876 And so they recommend, and again, there's whole- Yeah... you know, there's whole, like, webinars and, and classes on this and whatever to retrain yourself. But 121 00:21:02.776 --> 00:21:15.356 you often have to be like, "It looks cold outside," and then hope they put on their coat. Yeah. "It, it seems, you know, it might be getting close to the time I'm hungry." 122 00:21:15.516 --> 00:21:29.396 You know, to see if, like, they'll, or whatever, you know? Yeah. So it's kind of like l- learning- Yeah... relearning how to speak. And, and once you try and do it, you'll realize how many things are actually demands. 123 00:21:29.596 --> 00:21:41.256 Sure. It's literally almost everything for a child, right? That's funny- Oh... 'cause I feel like there was a while where I had to train myself to stop asking James to do stuff 'cause that was his ADHD. 124 00:21:41.456 --> 00:21:46.596 You know, we were like- Yeah. Right, right, right... actually I did this when I was potty training, where you'd be like, "Let's go to, do you wanna go to the bathroom?" 125 00:21:46.716 --> 00:21:53.756 And you have to stop yourself from saying that 'cause of course they're never gonna say yes, especially if they're doing something fun, you know? I have two questions, I guess. 126 00:21:53.816 --> 00:22:05.696 One, one is, that sounds so, like having a k- for me, having a kid with ADHD, it sounds like it's really hard to, as they grow older, to be like what is typical versus what is PDA, you know? 127 00:22:05.776 --> 00:22:12.196 What is a, you know- Yeah, yeah... like, and, and so that just sounds really hard. Yeah. I have no question around that, I guess. That's more of an observation. 128 00:22:12.296 --> 00:22:24.636 But for those- No, it's just, and I mean, again, yeah, the, the, the reason that it became more obvious that it was PDA was one, she was diagnosed with autism. So I mean, they're usually paired. 129 00:22:24.716 --> 00:22:29.536 Some people will say not always, and that's of course true. But they are usually paired. 130 00:22:29.976 --> 00:22:40.596 And so once we finally got the autism diagnosis, then we were like, yes, you know, like this, she is on the spectrum, but she has a PDA profile is what they call it. Yeah. 131 00:22:40.616 --> 00:22:52.116 And again, like you meet one PD, it's like they always say, you meet one PDA kid or we meet one kid on the spectrum, you've met one kid on the spectrum. That doesn't mean that every PDAer is going to present the same. 132 00:22:52.376 --> 00:23:03.176 And, you know, when I've been on these various webinars, that's when I've kind of realized, like, we're actually in the whole span of what it could be with PDA. 133 00:23:03.416 --> 00:23:10.936 I feel very lucky, and I also feel, like, lucky that, you know, both my husband and I have to, happen to work from home. I mean, there's people- Right... 134 00:23:10.956 --> 00:23:23.136 on these chats and the webinars that are like, "I have, you know, two jobs. Like, my kid- Sure... goes to public school. Like, I can't, like, what am I supposed to do?" And I mean- Ever... nobody has an answer. 135 00:23:23.356 --> 00:23:30.076 Nobody has an answer. You know, my daughter went from public, to public school from ages 3 until last year at 10. 136 00:23:30.816 --> 00:23:45.316 And, you know, like I said, always did well, always had friends, but like many, many or almost all autistic, you know, people do, she masked, meaning like mask, M-A-S-K, like pretended. 137 00:23:45.716 --> 00:23:48.116 She would tell her therapist, "I'm pretending to be somebody else." 138 00:23:48.196 --> 00:24:00.856 But the problem is, is that that gets exhausting, and then that is what leads to the school refusal and what's called, like, PDA or autistic burnout is, like, they just get to a point where like they're like, "We are done." 139 00:24:01.616 --> 00:24:14.416 And then the very- Mm... very hard thing to wrap your head around when that happened, so this was for my daughter that was, like, like mid fifth grade. She would only want to play Minecraft 140 00:24:15.316 --> 00:24:27.536 and watch the same YouTube videos over, and over, and over, and over. And that's a very autistic child thing. It brings them comfort to watch the same thing over and over and know what's gonna happen. 141 00:24:27.636 --> 00:24:38.956 Again, it's also control, right? Sure. I know what's gonna happen in this video. And she would also want us to watch these videos, and that is very much- Oh, man... as we realized as time goes on. 142 00:24:39.608 --> 00:24:47.228 Yeah, that is the main way to bond with her. And so you ask me anything about Five Nights at Freddy's, the video game, and the lore- Oh, man... 143 00:24:47.388 --> 00:24:59.188 of the video game or Minecraft or like that she watches certain comedians on YouTube, and I watch these videos again and again. I could mem- you know, I have them memorized, and

so that's... But that is the way. 144 00:24:59.348 --> 00:25:10.688 That's the way you bond with a PDA child, is you take interest in their thing that they are doing over and over and over. So she did that for four months straight. Am I, in the whole scheme of things, lucky? 145 00:25:10.908 --> 00:25:21.148 Yes, because there were people on these webinars whose kids had been doing it for a year. One kid who would only eat goldfish for 15 months. Oh, man. Can you live? 146 00:25:21.428 --> 00:25:29.848 Apparently, apparently you can live if you only eat goldfish for- Oh, wow. That's, that's some real super sad- Like that and then not pooping for 16 hours. Yeah. Jesus. Yeah. 147 00:25:30.048 --> 00:25:38.888 Kids that were 15 years old and who would only sleep in their parents' bed. You know, I mean, a lot. It was, like, really, really sad to hear. 148 00:25:39.128 --> 00:25:45.528 So I feel like in the whole scheme of things, you know- But also doesn't make it easy. I mean, perspective is always nice- No, no. Uh, right, right, right, right, right... 149 00:25:45.528 --> 00:25:49.948 uh, and, and, and the generous thing to do, but that doesn't mean you guys aren't fucking exhausted. 150 00:25:50.148 --> 00:26:03.568 Just for my own context for the conversation, how self-aware is she of the, the entire sort of diagnosis as it were, and all the context you just explained and in the moment? And then that's really my main question. 151 00:26:04.088 --> 00:26:17.088 Sure. She's, she's 100% aware now. Okay. Uh, and that was a really, that was another of, like, very tough thing to decide to do, is do you tell your child about this? 152 00:26:17.608 --> 00:26:29.388 My daughter has a really, really complicated birth story. She was adopted and so from the beginning she knew. And from the beginning, you know, and my son we used a donor egg for. 153 00:26:29.488 --> 00:26:42.108 He's always known that, like, a special lady helped put him in mommy's belly or whatever. My husband was adopted, you know, back in the day when nobody, you know, knew who the birth parents were, whatever. 154 00:26:42.188 --> 00:26:52.328 We did an open adoption, so you know, we knew the birth parents. We met them. We were there for her birth. I was the first person, you know, to hold her skin to skin, all that stuff. 155 00:26:52.988 --> 00:27:05.968 And they say you want the kid to know, you want them to know so early that they didn't ever not know. Yeah. Because otherwise it's becomes a shame thing. "Well, why didn't you tell me? Well, what's wrong?" 156 00:27:06.108 --> 00:27:17.368 You know, why is this a secret type thing. So she's always known that she was adopted, and eventually the time came to kind of talk to her about PDA. 157 00:27:18.168 --> 00:27:33.928 You know, she's got a lot of diagnoses, so she also has ADHD, like a m- she has many, many diagnoses. And so we have talked to her about it. We've gotten books, which she won't read. But it's been a... 158 00:27:34.908

--> 00:27:44.388 It was interesting because when she started not going to sc- refusing to go to school in fifth grade, one of the days it was like 159 00:27:45.348 --> 00:27:56.868 they have this every year, PDA North America has a two-day annual conference, and you can do it online. So I was doing it online, and she was in the room playing Minecraft. And so I was like, I'm gonna tell her. 160 00:27:56.928 --> 00:28:06.008 I'm on this thing. We had already talked about what PDA was and, and you know. And it was so funny 'cause I'm just like, all right, I'm gonna listen to these things and she can be in the background. 161 00:28:06.048 --> 00:28:16.048 And you know, so she's playing Minecraft pretending like she is not hearing any of this. And one of the things they did is they interviewed a 14-year-old with PDA. She was, my daughter was 10 at the time. 162 00:28:16.848 --> 00:28:30.828 And this kid was talking about two things that made my jaw drop. One was how he doesn't, he wants everything in his room to be in sight because then he knows where it is, 163 00:28:31.748 --> 00:28:46.428 and also how he does not like to be watched in any way because they feel like it's, like, judgment and, you know, again, like, control, all the stuff. And so she's playing Minecraft and she's like, "See?" And 164 00:28:47.508 --> 00:29:04.508 this is because in her bedroom she has approximately 3,215 stuffed animals. All of them are on display. None of them can be out of sight. Hmm. And when somebody moves something and puts it in a drawer, that is bad. 165 00:29:04.908 --> 00:29:11.408 So- Yeah... I was like, oh, okay. This is not just her. This is part of it too. And then with the watching thing, 166 00:29:12.468 --> 00:29:22.728 she is very, very d- does not want anybody in the same room with her when she's playing Minecraft or watching her YouTube videos or whatever, and that might not necessarily be just PDA. 167 00:29:22.788 --> 00:29:30.948 That might also be just like a s- you know, autism thing. But it made me feel better 'cause I was like, what is she doing that she doesn't want me to see? Sure, yeah. 168 00:29:30.968 --> 00:29:41.868 And of course, we do go on and we check, you know, we have trackers on everything. We know how to check. Watching anything bad. She just doesn't want us to be judging. You know, it's very much- Mm-hmm... 169 00:29:41.988 --> 00:29:49.948 the PDA is very much like a, yeah, like a, a paranoia, anxiety, a social anxiety of, of- Sure... you know, judgment based, what are people doing? 170 00:29:50.048 --> 00:30:03.908 So, so that was, you know, very eye-opening to me as well, is that a lot of these, what I, I thought were really quirks just for her, were not. Was that a relief? Um, yes, it was a huge relief. 171 00:30:04.008 --> 00:30:14.828 I think it was a relief for her, you know, too, to hear I'm not alone. You know- Sure... this is, like, a thing. But it is also kind of sad though because, you know, 172 00:30:15.968 --> 00:30:25.368 a few times when we've talked to her about it, she'll be like, "Oh, well, you know, that's what's wrong with me," or, "That's what..." You know, and so I mean, she's aware that she has differences. 173 00:30:26.288 --> 00:30:39.648 A great breakthrough just came this past Friday. She had always wanted me on all of her therapy calls, and we had to switch therapists after the one who had known she had PDA, you know, said, "I'm not trained in this." 174 00:30:40.368 --> 00:30:48.572 So we switched to another therapist and she's been kind of like, you know, kind- Building up rapport with this woman, so she's always had me with her. 175 00:30:48.612 --> 00:30:56.852 And a lot of times she will lock herself in the bathroom or hide under her bed covers and, and so I'll have to start the call. 176 00:30:57.432 --> 00:31:11.252 And so she'll be able to hear it, and so then I will inevitably, this is how I became a master in the lore of the video game Five Nights at Freddy's, is 'cause I would bring this up because this therapist also has a daughter who is into all this. 177 00:31:11.412 --> 00:31:22.832 We'd start talking about the lore. I would purposely get something wrong. Mm-hmm. And so we're like, pop out and be like, "No, no," and then she'd start talking. That's amazing. So this last Friday- That's veteran shit. 178 00:31:22.832 --> 00:31:36.312 Yeah. So this, this last therapy session, she ended up being alone with the therapist for 30 minutes of the 60 minutes, and they started talking about, like, what PDA feels like in her body. 179 00:31:36.492 --> 00:31:44.912 Kind of this resistance- Oh... to, like, even if she wants to do it, she physically cannot make herself do it. And so that was, like, a huge breakthrough. That's wonderful. 180 00:31:44.932 --> 00:31:53.772 And she has been really, like, opening up to this woman, so I mean, there is hope, but I mean, that's been like a two, three-year process of therapy so far. That's great. You know? 181 00:31:54.572 --> 00:32:03.772 First of all, that Five Nights at Freddy's thing is, makes me laugh, and it makes me think of my friend Lauren, whose son is obsessed with creepy doll babies, like haunted dolls. It is so dark. 182 00:32:04.412 --> 00:32:14.392 And she, and she's such a good mom- Mm... that she's like, "Bring on the haunted ghost." She hates it, to be clear. Yeah. But she's such a nice person that- It's so dark too... she didn't care. Yeah. 183 00:32:14.712 --> 00:32:18.672 But- It's really messed up. So two questions. 184 00:32:18.732 --> 00:32:32.232 First of all, I, again, I'm not comparing ADHD to, but there's a little bit, I know Paul, my older son, sometimes feels like, "Why do you let the other one get a- get away with so much bullshit that I would never get away with?" 185 00:32:32.652 --> 00:32:44.752 Oh. Yeah. And I feel that a lot as an oldest well-behaved child, and I'm like, I just, I cannot hold him accountable for every single thing that I would like to, 'cause

it's not gonna work for any of us. 186 00:32:44.792 --> 00:32:51.752 And I, I see you- Yep. Yep... that this is hard and it stinks, and you will get your reward in heaven- Yeah... or whatever it is, you know? 187 00:32:52.252 --> 00:33:03.412 But, you know, and my deserts, you know, I, he, Paul gets a little extra ice cream and candy, things like that. So anyway, do you, has that been an issue with your firstborn son? Mm-hmm. And does he get- Oh, big time... 188 00:33:03.452 --> 00:33:11.852 does that issue ever different rules for? Yeah. No, big time it has been. And so finally we had to just tell him the whole story too. 189 00:33:12.332 --> 00:33:19.572 So one night, shortly, it was like the day after I kind of explained to her, her various diagnoses and I drew a little, 190 00:33:20.472 --> 00:33:26.272 I drew, because she has so many, and again, that would take five hours to talk about, but like I drew basically 191 00:33:27.392 --> 00:33:37.432 two circles and then a interlapping circle of like kind of the ADHD and its related diagnoses and the autism and PDA and then some of the other stuff. 192 00:33:38.072 --> 00:33:49.712 And was like, you know, these are kind of all the things, and what's, what's interesting or I guess interesting with my daughter is that she actually has some conflicting diagnoses. 193 00:33:49.772 --> 00:33:57.812 So like things that technically are opposite. And so sometimes like one will take over and sometimes the other one will take over. 194 00:33:57.972 --> 00:34:16.952 And I'm sure every psychiatrist tells every parent this just to make them feel better, but our psych- psychiatrist has said that she's, my daughter's like one of the most complex cases she's ever seen because of this, like, dichotomy and like almost, you know, like crisscrossing diagnoses that seem to cancel each other out sometimes. 195 00:34:16.992 --> 00:34:31.132 So once we had told her everything, then I took my son out for, you know, just a walk and kind of told him the whole story, and he cried, and I was shocked- Mm... to be honest. Mm. 196 00:34:31.172 --> 00:34:37.912 Because I always thought he had zero, you know, kind of- How much older is he than her? He's three years older. Okay. 197 00:34:37.932 --> 00:34:46.492 And you know, I look back at videos of them when they were little and it breaks my heart 'cause they were so, they were, they were closer at least, you know. 198 00:34:46.612 --> 00:34:57.572 They were pla- you know, they were like both playing guitar and singing, you know, something or, you know, at, at, in a, a, one of our vacations in a hammock together or whatever. I mean, that would never happen now. 199 00:34:57.652 --> 00:35:11.332 They barely speak now. And- Oh, sure... um, that's, that's mostly, you know, because she won't, you know, really talk. The only time that they come together is when they are both making fun of me. 200 00:35:11.732 --> 00:35:19.252 You know, that's a big bonding moment. So I mean, again, I

just have to take it. Yeah. They'll send back and forth memes. You know, they'll- Oh... they'll send back and forth memes. 201 00:35:19.352 --> 00:35:31.212 We went to Australia a few Christmases ago and they were, like, trying to figure out where, my son likes to game and he wanted to go to a gaming station or something, and I was like, "If it's in Sydney, it's in Sydney." 202 00:35:31.512 --> 00:35:36.352 And they thought that was hilarious. They're like, "If it's in Sydney, if it's..." You know, they still say it to this day. 203 00:35:36.912 --> 00:35:52.192 There was one time where we were on a ride in Disneyland where it's the Winnie the Pooh ride, and at the very end they do this evil thing where they have a fake beehive and it, and it sounds like a bunch of bees are about to come at you, and I've seen people freak out thinking- Sure... 204 00:35:52.212 --> 00:36:01.932 there's a bee by them. And I, so one time we got off the ride and I said something like, "What is that? A swarm of bees?" And you know, they continually always are saying that together. 205 00:36:02.492 --> 00:36:13.332 So I'm like, hey, if that's, if that's what it takes for them to bond- Bees... that's fine. I'm convinced that she might end up being like a, a standup comedian. Yeah. 206 00:36:13.352 --> 00:36:18.172 And it's very interesting 'cause during COVID I read the memoirs of a lot of female standup comedians. 207 00:36:18.372 --> 00:36:29.952 Almost all of them were late diagnosed autistic, you know, like Hannah Gadsby, a lot of people, and I was like, she's gonna end up- Yeah... being a standup comedian, and I am going to be the routine. Love it. 208 00:36:30.052 --> 00:36:36.472 I'm gonna be the butt of all the jokes. Right. Do you know Janet McNamara, by the way? She's like an up and... She's like- No... 209 00:36:36.532 --> 00:36:44.672 a hot re- like, she's been floated in Vulture as like a com- comedian to watch, but she's, I think she's autistic- Cool... and she's queer, and she always wears like a puffy vest. Yeah. 210 00:36:44.692 --> 00:36:50.352 And anyway, so she's a- Yeah, yeah... neuro- yeah, a neurodiv- anyway, for, that's hilarious. I, Paul roasted me. 211 00:36:50.512 --> 00:37:00.684 I told him- I, I think it might happen At the Sox game, because I was like walking around during the game, and then they came down right when the other team hit a home run, so everyone was booing, but I didn't see it happen. 212 00:37:00.804 --> 00:37:10.124 And I asked Paul, I was like, "Why is everyone booing?" He's like, "Probably because you came down." Nice. I again was like- Right... I don't know why. God bless. I know. 213 00:37:10.464 --> 00:37:13.184 So one last question before we switch to Disney, but I- Sure... 214 00:37:13.284 --> 00:37:28.144 or maybe at least from me, maybe Quinn has more, but I presume that the internet is such a double-edged sword for PDA, parents of kids with PDA, in terms of like fighting each other, but also finding either pseudoscience, you know, or judgment. 215 00:37:28.304 --> 00:37:31.824 Just, "Why don't you just spank them?" You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. 216 00:37:31.964 --> 00:37:41.024 What, what, if you, say there's a parent out there who's just like finally got a diagnosis, is pretty sure their kid has PDA, what would you say to avoid, you know, things that you've, that- Mm-hmm... 217 00:37:41.084 --> 00:37:51.484 people claim help or, you know, I don't know if there's- Oh... like a lot of snake oil kind of stuff going on, but talk about the dangers of what's out there in terms of what's supposed to help these kids. Yeah, sure. 218 00:37:51.564 --> 00:38:05.484 I mean, first I would recommend two sites. The first is PDA North America. I think it's literally just pdanorthamerica.org. Maybe we can put the links in after. And then the other one is, I think it's PDA UK Society. 219 00:38:05.624 --> 00:38:14.204 So in the UK, they're much further ahead than the US is for as far as diagnosis and just research and, and everything else. 220 00:38:14.344 --> 00:38:32.784 And so those two sites have been an extreme- extremely helpful resource for my husband and I, and just for anybody out there, if, if you want to do one of the webinars at PDA North America, and it's 39 bucks or something, and you can't make it, they will, they will do it free. 221 00:38:32.964 --> 00:38:45.704 They are not wanting to prevent anybody from, from help, you know, or whatever. So just know that, that there's a lot of great free resources out there from both of those sites. 222 00:38:45.904 --> 00:38:57.364 When, I think how we first got into me coming to talk about this was that you had forwarded an article that was like, "PDA: Is it real or just another case of permissive parenting?" I was like, "Oh." Yeah. 223 00:38:57.704 --> 00:39:09.244 Many swear words came out. Y- you know, I don't wanna be like thinking of every single thing I need to say before I say it. I don't wanna be doing any of that. You know, I mean, it's, it's very, very tough. 224 00:39:10.004 --> 00:39:23.404 And I am the most Type A person you will ever meet. I do not want to be somebody that has no rules. It has challenged me to my very core. My husband feels the same way. 225 00:39:23.524 --> 00:39:27.324 So we are not people that just want our kids to run wild. 226 00:39:27.524 --> 00:39:39.264 But this concept of low-demand parenting is what we've both really had to embrace, and that is something that, you know, again, I learned through those sites and online as well. 227 00:39:39.884 --> 00:39:46.064 You gotta, you know, my husband like hated that my daughter would literally never eat at the table. 228 00:39:46.324 --> 00:39:58.804 She will always take it and eat in front of the computer while she's watching the YouTube videos, or she'll have it on our bed, where the only TV is right now or the, in this apartment, and, you know, inevitably spill all over the stuff. 229 00:39:59.424 --> 00:40:10.364 And,

you know, stuff like that is just, you gotta let it go. It's not the end of the world. You have to pick your battles. And so I curate who I follow very, very carefully. 230 00:40:10.944 --> 00:40:20.884 There were a few people in my life, you know, whose kids have, you know, are on the spectrum or have various things that are like, you know, "Oh, it's vaccines," or it's this or that. 231 00:40:20.964 --> 00:40:31.564 I'm just like, I'm not, you know, I'm not here for that, so I just don't follow that. [laughs] So I'm probably not the best person to ask about any snake oil out there, but I think that it's, you know, 232 00:40:32.624 --> 00:40:42.324 always, to me, the rule of thumb is if somebody's selling something, like a supplement or something, that's usually a big, big warning sign. They're profiting off of... 233 00:40:42.464 --> 00:40:53.264 You know, and that's why I think with PDA North America and the UK Society, I mean, they will, you know, let anybody access kind of these, these experts, and all of them have degrees. 234 00:40:53.324 --> 00:41:04.244 You know, this isn't like some rando coming on there being like me. [laughs] I'm not a doctor, guys. Right. But like all of these people are, you know, certified doctors or therapists or pediatricians or whatever. 235 00:41:04.364 --> 00:41:15.344 So I mean, I'd say kind of to anybody, look, look for that first. And none of this should be costing you any money, you know- Yeah... to, to get information about it. 236 00:41:15.664 --> 00:41:25.204 Well, without asking a single other question, I'm pretty sure I understand at least why I would go to Disneyland by myself all the time. Oh, yeah. Love it. Uh-huh. 237 00:41:25.204 --> 00:41:38.304 Like I don't, I mean, perhaps you have other incentives, but- I wanna say two things before we specifically get into Disney, because one, I want to tell people that it is not specifically about Disneyland. 238 00:41:38.664 --> 00:41:43.964 I will get up on my high horse and say to anybody who will listen that 239 00:41:45.124 --> 00:41:57.824 if you have a daughter and you are trying to raise her to be a strong, independent woman, or if you have a son and you are trying to raise him to respect strong, independent women, we absolutely must mirror this. 240 00:41:58.224 --> 00:42:10.464 We must show them this. So when my husband goes off to see Metallica at the Sphere with his best friend, nobody says a damn word if- Of course... when he is gone for five days. If I go 241 00:42:11.384 --> 00:42:19.384 to Disneyland or wherever I'm gonna go, I was just in New York to see Harry Styles, that brought me joy, people will be like, "Oh, who's watching the kid?" "Oh, what, who's staying home with," you know, "my daughter?" 242 00:42:19.444 --> 00:42:35.184 Like whatever. Everybody will always ask that. And so I take great pride in, in convincing like dozens and dozens, I hope to get to hundreds, hundreds of women to leave. Leave and go on a trip. 243 00:42:35.944 --> 00:42:46.484 If you cannot afford a full trip, I've done stayca- like during COVID, I did staycations. I blocked out an enti- I blocked off like a whole place and, you know, a whole area in our apartment. 244 00:42:46.524 --> 00:42:53.184 It was like nobody's coming in here for two days, and they respected it. I mean, I'm lucky because my husband, I, I say we're both selfish. 245 00:42:53.664 --> 00:43:02.224 The reason we've been married 23 years is because like we both like to do these kind of trips, and we both- Sure... you know, let each other do them. 246 00:43:02.924 --> 00:43:13.828 So I just feel very strongly that you cannot tell your kid that- You know, a mom is more than a mom and has her own life and all this stuff, if you, if you yourself don't actually do it. 247 00:43:14.528 --> 00:43:29.308 And I've found that a lot of women do not like the idea of not being needed. Like of, of, "Well, if I leave, every- no- nobody's gonna eat. Nobody's gonna know how to do this. He doesn't..." Well, you enabled that then. 248 00:43:29.328 --> 00:43:39.848 Yeah. Trust me, they're not gonna die. Go. Yeah. And so one t- one time I went with one of my best friends, and we're there, you know, and it's just, it's three of us from college, and she's, "Oh." 249 00:43:40.288 --> 00:43:50.488 She's like, "Your kids know you're here?" And I'm like, "Yeah." And she's like, "And they don't get mad, and they don't..." And I was like, "Get your kids on the fricking FaceTime right now." 250 00:43:50.608 --> 00:43:59.928 So we did, and she told them, and I was like, I was like, "T- just tell them you're gonna bring them back something." And so at first they were very startled. 251 00:43:59.968 --> 00:44:06.688 These are, her family is like big, big Disney people, and they were like, "What? You're-" Oh. But I was just like, "Just tell them-" So this was like a real stab in the back... 252 00:44:06.688 --> 00:44:13.728 you know, "You're gonna bring them something back." Oh, I love that. Oh. But I was like, "No, no, no, no." That's fantastic. I was like, "You must let them know you can do this on your own." 253 00:44:14.288 --> 00:44:25.468 And then the second thing I'll say is that, like, I'm not, like I have traveled far and wide. I don't just go to, I don't want people to think I'm like a crazy Disney adult, though I am. 254 00:44:25.628 --> 00:44:30.748 But like, I, you know, like- You're so much more than that... I would like to think I'm a little bit more cultured than that. 255 00:44:30.828 --> 00:44:43.688 But, but- No, I, well- Going back to, like Disney is my favorite place because for a lot of people, it is, for me, it's the bubble. I will delete all news apps w- while I'm there. 256 00:44:43.928 --> 00:44:55.208 I will not know anything that's going on in the real world. Everybody that knows me knows to not tell me anything that's going on in the real world. And I think that it just brings a lot of... 257 00:44:56.008 --> 00:45:02.908 During COVID, I

learned the term collective exuberance from a, a Professor Adam Grant. He's wonderful. 258 00:45:02.928 --> 00:45:11.048 He has many bestselling books, but he's a Wharton professor, and he wrote an article during COVID that said what we're all missing is collective exuberance. 259 00:45:11.068 --> 00:45:23.388 And so what that is is basically if you're like me and like a extroverted introvert, I often lose energy around a lot of people or if I have to be on and stuff like that. 260 00:45:23.688 --> 00:45:35.728 But I gain energy from collective exuberance, which is when you don't have to talk to anybody else, but you're all, you're in a huge group- Harry Styles... of people experiencing joy from the few, same thing. Yes. 261 00:45:36.208 --> 00:45:43.828 100% Harry Styles. So I went- Yep... to that concert by myself. This is also something I would highly recommend. I love going to concerts by myself. One, because, yeah. 262 00:45:44.088 --> 00:45:54.308 One, because you can wait till the last minute and get like way less, way less money. Yeah. 'Cause there's always like that one random single. That's how I get a lot of like really great seats. 263 00:45:54.368 --> 00:46:06.428 So I go to Harry Styles by myself. I show up there. There's a group of women from Toronto next to me. This is at Madison Square Garden. And they have a sign that says, "My, our husbands think we're at book club." 264 00:46:07.328 --> 00:46:15.768 And so like, they immediately took me in. Like I've made so many, you know, friends that way. Sure. But I feel, you know, it's why I like to go to Comic-Con in San Diego. 265 00:46:15.828 --> 00:46:31.168 It's why I like to go to movies, theme parks, anywhere that kind of has that, you know, everybody is experiencing the same thing, but you don't necessarily need to talk to anybody else. That is what I want. Mm-hmm. 266 00:46:31.168 --> 00:46:53.188 And so, you know, that's why I just feel like at Disney, you know, be it you're on the ride, same ride as everybody, and you're experiencing the thrill of the ride, or you're all watching fireworks together, or, you know, whatever, to me, it is the ultimate place of just like being in the bubble and kind of recharging myself. 267 00:46:53.828 --> 00:47:02.688 I think it's awesome. So what do you do at Disney when you're there? I mean, there's no doubt, there's no question. I was just talking to, talking to Priyanka Mathur the other day. 268 00:47:02.788 --> 00:47:08.228 She has a book out about how to be less useful. It's coming out soon, but she talks also about- Yep... the pleasures of traveling solo. 269 00:47:08.968 --> 00:47:19.588 And so I was just saying how great, I, I, I think we can all figure out when it's better to be solo and not be, for instance, dealing with the kids' boredom for an, a long line, you know? 270 00:47:19.688 --> 00:47:27.588 But what are other experiences- Yeah. Right, right, right... that you do only solo and not when the kids are there? Well, I do a lot of sit-down meals. 271 00:47:27.828 --> 00:47:37.248 So for anybody who hasn't been to any theme park in a long time, they, at least the Disney parks have come a long way. They have Michelin-starred restaurants. So I would go to the Michelin-starred restaurant. 272 00:47:37.488 --> 00:47:51.908 One time I did, on a recent trip, I was with two sorority sisters, and we did a new thing at, in Disneyland, which is called Chef's Table. So it, it's like you're in The Bear. You're sitting there at the kitchen. 273 00:47:51.968 --> 00:48:03.588 They're going, "Hams. Chefs. Yes, chef." All that stuff. And it's great food. It's great, great, great food. So I'm not gonna waste my money on taking a kid to that who's not gonna appreciate. No. You know? 274 00:48:03.768 --> 00:48:15.908 Fuck those kids. There's, yeah, yeah. There's also a lot of, in the, in Star Wars Land in Disneyland, there's, you know, Oga's Cantina, which is the bar, right? So I mean, I'm not gonna take my kids into the bar. 275 00:48:16.048 --> 00:48:27.408 Then they can. There's, you know, you can take your kids in there, but I don't. You know, so a lot of the, the more sit-down experiences are what I like to do on my own. 276 00:48:27.948 --> 00:48:36.568 Shop, you know, just really just do whatever I want. Just ri- you know, I am a person that actually likes rides. A lot of people don't, you know, once you get older. Mm-hmm. 277 00:48:36.568 --> 00:48:45.208 But I will be riding the roller coasters until my body can't take it anymore. So again, when you're there on your own, you can get in everything so fast. 278 00:48:45.508 --> 00:48:53.768 There's either single rider lines, or they say, "Anybody who's single," and then they pull you up. So I mean, it's just, you know, you can get through everything. 279 00:48:54.448 --> 00:49:07.268 But a lot of times, you know, I, I do go with just local friends in LA or friends that fly in, and it's just a different experience to go with all adults versus yourself, versus your family. 280 00:49:07.528 --> 00:49:18.548 So I'd, I'd recommend both solo, only if you like Disney, but solo for other trips, and then, you know, just meeting up with friends is great. I have never taken the kids to Disney. 281 00:49:18.868 --> 00:49:29.748 I just, it's not the monoculture for them the way it was when we were kids. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. True. And so, you know. Yeah. But I get pleasure from your pleasure of Disney and your knowledge of it. Sure. Correct. 282 00:49:29.748 --> 00:49:31.628 And, and you're a self-aware kind of Disney adult. 283 00:49:31.648 --> 00:49:41.668 Well, it's really- But, uh- Yeah, it's really interesting just on that note, like the woman, so this one I just took, the 14 teenagers, or the, or the three 14-year-olds. The one mom- That's great... 284 00:49:41.708 --> 00:49:51.188 the one mom and, and son that were with, grew up, they were not Disney people. He had seen no Disney movies. He hasn't even seen Pixar movies. He basically is like

285 00:49:52.468 --> 00:50:01.768 a, a child who should've been a Gen X-er and watches like all John Hughes movies. [laughs] Right. It was pretty cool. Yeah, and the, the mother had never been to any Disney park. 286 00:50:02.148 --> 00:50:12.028 D- it was not, you know, her, her parents were both professors. They did not grow up watching any Disney things. So I was kinda like, "Is she gonna even like this?" And she loved it, you know? 287 00:50:12.048 --> 00:50:22.608 And then she was just like, "I see," you know, "I see why you like it." And again, I'm not saying this is for everybody. I'm just saying make time for yourself to physically leave. 288 00:50:22.868 --> 00:50:35.248 Where- whatever it is you wanna do, again, even if it's just a staycation in your town, get yourself away so that your kids can see that they can survive and that they can see you're like a real person. Mm-hmm. 289 00:50:35.688 --> 00:50:46.788 But yeah, she still enjoyed it. Yeah. If anybody goes with me, they're going to enjoy it 'cause they don't have to do anything. I have a spreadsheet. I've got it all planned out, that you will not wait in any lines. 290 00:50:46.948 --> 00:50:59.288 It's the best to go with me. So like it was funny when other of my friends heard that this woman had never been to any Disney park, and they're like, "Does she unders- does she fully understand, like who she's-" Right. 291 00:50:59.288 --> 00:51:04.268 "... going out with?" Yeah. Right, right, right. I was like, "Yes, she does." That's a whole other- If anybody unsends you-... career for you... 292 00:51:04.268 --> 00:51:11.668 a spreadsheet beforehand with all the, all the specialty churros locations, she probably knows that I'm not normal. 293 00:51:12.588 --> 00:51:26.148 When did you lock into Disney as a recurring destination, and when did you realize that it was a sort of a mental health balm for you? Yeah, really late actually. I grew up going to C- I grew up in Michigan. 294 00:51:26.308 --> 00:51:37.268 I was g- we were always going to Cedar Point, 'cause that was just a three-hour drive, and I had a bunch of aunts and uncles who were only 14 years older than me, so it was our big family fun thing to go to Cedar Point. 295 00:51:37.888 --> 00:51:45.928 We went to Disney World, which was just a straight drive down, I think I-75 from Michigan to Florida, a few times growing up. 296 00:51:46.148 --> 00:51:56.448 But I didn't go to Disneyland until I was in high school, and that was like for some club I was in, the national, the national competition was there. 297 00:51:57.008 --> 00:52:12.148 I went again in 2007 for a friend's baby shower, and then the next time I went was after my in-laws had moved to Arizona and my son was about, you know, two or three, 298 00:52:13.228 --> 00:52:21.188 because we could drive there from Arizona. Mm. And so- Okay... once we were, once we were there, I was like, "Wait a second, I love this." 299 00:52:21.828 --> 00:52:33.488 And then I started realizing that I had all these other friends who were either local in LA or, you know, down to meet up there. And then I started pr- going maybe once a year. 300 00:52:33.668 --> 00:52:39.548 Now I go four or five times, you know, a year. I already have four more trips between now and April booked. 301 00:52:39.648 --> 00:52:50.948 And so I have [laughs] an annual pass even though I live in Chicago, and it's financially worth it to do that if you're, you know, again, going to go often. 302 00:52:51.008 --> 00:53:06.708 But yeah, I just think, again, I've traveled all over the world internationally, and nothing, there is not... That is the place that, that is kind of, I, I immediately, as a very high-strung type A person, I immediately 303 00:53:08.028 --> 00:53:17.608 deflate, you know, and am normal. Whereas, you know, if I go somewhere else, it takes me three to four days to even feel like I can rest, you know? 304 00:53:18.508 --> 00:53:30.208 Do you, how has, 'cause you s- started kind of getting into Disney, I feel like, right, especially when social media was heating up in general. So how has, especially Instagram, 305 00:53:31.108 --> 00:53:45.868 you know, and Reddit, im- g- made the experience better and/or made it, I don't know, maybe were not great? For me it's only been better. Just at my very last trip, I got to meet, for the second time, a cast member. 306 00:53:45.988 --> 00:53:48.368 So that's what they call Disney employees, they call them cast members. 307 00:53:48.868 --> 00:54:00.588 If you are ever at Disneyland, you see somebody that's in a vest, they're like the high-end people that take around, you know, the superstar, you know, the stars and, or the people that pay a lot to be taken around on a private tour. 308 00:54:01.348 --> 00:54:08.028 So there's this guy named Philander who works there. He is one of the high-end tour guides that... And 309 00:54:09.528 --> 00:54:22.868 I started following a lot of these Disney influencers during COVID because I was just missing, you know, the experience, and he was doing this thing called Imagineering Mondays, was, when he was telling all these crazy behind-the-scenes secrets every Monday. 310 00:54:22.968 --> 00:54:35.308 He was doing polls. It, it just a lot of engaging content when none, a- all the parks were shut. And so I, and his daughter is the same age as my daughter. My daughter wears glasses. 311 00:54:35.368 --> 00:54:46.188 His daughter wore the same ki- [laughs] So I, I was like always writing him, and he would write back. And so I've gotten to meet him two times. One was this very last trip I just got back from. So that's been amazing. 312 00:54:46.408 --> 00:54:57.288 There are two influencers who live in Chicago who, one has kids, one is a member of the LGBTQ community, which is kind of where I live in Chicago. 313 00:54:57.908 --> 00:55:08.548 And, you know, I've met or seen them in real life, become friends with them. And then there's one other woman who lives in

Arizona who gives all these great tips who, you know, I've, I've bonded with. 314 00:55:08.648 --> 00:55:11.948 So it's, it's only been a positive experience for me. 315 00:55:12.528 --> 00:55:24.948 There has been a few mainstream articles about Disney adults, and this mom went to Disney without her kids, and she's a pry, and all the stuff that Just make me mad, but you know? Yeah. Or make me laugh. You know? Yeah. 316 00:55:24.968 --> 00:55:30.468 Like, I'll post them on my Instagram and be like, "That's me." And, and you know, whatever. I'm not... 317 00:55:31.048 --> 00:55:42.608 It's, it's just so funny to me because I'm like, all right, there's people that like NASCAR, there's people that like WWE wrestling, there's people that like... I mean, I am a fan of fandoms. If you- Yeah... 318 00:55:42.648 --> 00:55:53.028 love something and it is not hurting somebody else, if you are really into Marvel or Fortnite or Minecraft or Five Nights at Freddy's or, you know, whatever it is. 319 00:55:53.168 --> 00:56:02.228 I mean, I'm not a sports person, but people do a lot of crazy shit for sport. [laughs] You know, for their football team- Yeah... that they're not playing on. You know, so it's like the same thing to me. 320 00:56:02.228 --> 00:56:11.568 You know, it's funny- And then, but for whatever reason, people do not get that. They don't associate the fandom of football with the fandom of Disney or something, you know? 321 00:56:12.148 --> 00:56:20.968 Well, I went to the Gorillaz show last week with Steve and I, or actually- Oh, cool. Yeah... I tried to get Paul to come and he said he didn't like them, and I was like, "I hate you." 322 00:56:21.068 --> 00:56:30.488 But I was surprised by how there were so many kids there, and a lot of kids who seemed like non-binary. Kids who kind of like- Yeah... 323 00:56:30.528 --> 00:56:34.168 identified as a cartoon character or whatever, and I was like, oh, that's interesting- Yeah. Yeah... 324 00:56:34.168 --> 00:56:42.968 'cause I'd never been to a Gorillaz show and I'd never seen their audience before, and I was like, that has a little hint of hip hop Comic-Con to it that, that I thought was- Absolutely... was cool. 325 00:56:43.008 --> 00:56:56.168 And speaking of that, speaking of that real quick, my, my daughter is very into Japanese culture and there is this crazy, it's a Vocaloid called Hatsune Miku. So this is literally just a voice, 326 00:56:57.748 --> 00:57:07.868 and the voice had a concert at the Auditorium Theatre, sold out two nights. I took her to it. It is the happiest I've ever seen her in my life. 327 00:57:08.128 --> 00:57:20.408 Everybody was like cosplaying as one of these Vocaloids, and like the concert was literally just a projection of this cartoon. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which was like- And so you could see not even humans... it's eerie. 328 00:57:20.408 --> 00:57:30.728 First of all- It was crazy. But she loved it. Quinn, I have two questions for you. First of all, have you heard the term Vocaloid prior to right now? I have not, but, 329 00:57:31.987 --> 00:57:44.248 but last ye- last year, my wife and I were in London and some friends talked us into going to the all projection ABBA concert in like the custom-built fucking stadium they made for it. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah. 330 00:57:44.288 --> 00:57:53.328 And it is both amazing 'cause it's fucking ABBA, and also so weird- Terrifying... 'cause it is projections and everyone's cheering. Yeah. And there's also a real band and the whole thing, and you're like... 331 00:57:54.008 --> 00:58:02.788 I don't know, 'cause I am- Yes, there was a real band at Hatsune Miku. Yeah... I am very similar to you, and this is how I feel about organized religion, whatever it is. Which is essentially like- Yeah. Yeah... 332 00:58:02.848 --> 00:58:13.528 look, man, if it's bringing you some comfort and escape, but it's not- Yeah... inadvertently much less purposefully like harming someone, great. I don't, I don't care. Let your- No... let your flag fly, man. Go. 333 00:58:13.568 --> 00:58:24.288 If it's a voice- Yeah... great. Great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Quinn, my, my second question was did, did you guys go to Disney a lot when you guys lived in LA or did you guys take the kids to Disney? 334 00:58:24.348 --> 00:58:34.788 What's your kids and Dana's Disney professional actions? Really great question. Thanks for asking. Never went once in LA. We were there for 15 years. I think part of that was probably COVID hit and the kids were... 335 00:58:35.448 --> 00:58:40.508 What, what was it? They were like three, four, and five or four, five, and six or whatever. Mm-hmm. And we were like, enough. Yeah. Nah. Fuck that. Yeah. 336 00:58:40.968 --> 00:58:52.348 And we were just so underwater anyways at that point that the idea of going somewhere for pleasure was not really gonna happen. Yeah. But then a couple years ago we surprised them and we went to Disney World. 337 00:58:52.408 --> 00:59:04.288 So we're in Virginia now, and we went down there 'cause we were like, look, if we're ever gonna do it, we should just do it once. Who knows? Maybe it'll be fun. I had a friend who's like you, and she, they go every year. 338 00:59:04.368 --> 00:59:13.328 Basically, her parents were like, "Hey, we're gonna take the kids to Disney World every year and you guys, and that's our fucking thing." I know. And they were like, "Okay." And now they- Yeah... 339 00:59:13.348 --> 00:59:20.328 they've been 12 times, whatever, and they've gone. And she's, you know, a, a ninja with it all. And so I said, "Great. Tell me all the buttons to push." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't care. 340 00:59:20.728 --> 00:59:29.588 Like you said, you get there and you experience it and it's very easy, and Disney World's four times the size of Disneyland, so it, there's a lot, right? Yeah. 341 00:59:29.628 --> 00:59:37.228 But you get there and you're like, they're really good at this. They're really fucking good- They really are. Yeah... at the

bubble, especially if you proactively turn the shit off. 342 00:59:37.248 --> 00:59:42.288 'Cause like you said, you can go- Yeah... to a staycation, you can go to a hotel, you can go to a this and that. 343 00:59:43.747 --> 00:59:53.528 They're, those places are not specifically designed, unless it's like the all-inclusive resort spa thing where you're supposed to turn it all off, right? Mm-hmm. For- Right... to take you somewhere else. 344 00:59:53.608 --> 01:00:00.948 It's the same reason I read only fiction at night. Right. That is 1,000 years in the future or 1,000 years in the past, and that's like my barometer. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. 345 01:00:01.468 --> 01:00:10.648 At the end of the trip, we were like, "Goddammit. Yeah, it's really, it's really great. It's really great." You get it. It's all the money. Yeah. But it was really great. So we've done it once. It's all the money. 346 01:00:10.648 --> 01:00:24.708 It was two years ago. And yeah, I don't know if we would do it again, but we're not like we would only- Sure... do this once. You know? It's like- The, the, the plug I'll put for Disneyland versus Disney World. Please. 347 01:00:24.728 --> 01:00:34.388 So I grew up going to Disney World, but like you said, one, not the biggest fan of Florida overall, but two- Sure... like there's four parks there and- It's so big... 348 01:00:34.648 --> 01:00:45.708 they are widely spread out, so you cannot walk between them. You cannot walk from any hotel to any park. You have to either take a boat, a monorail, drive, or whatever to go in between them. 349 01:00:46.208 --> 01:00:57.288 And I also feel like for the majority of the year, Florida or Orlando, Kissimmee has some hardcore bad weather as far as like you're going to get rained on at least once. It's going... 350 01:00:57.428 --> 01:01:03.408 When, the last time I went there was June 2025, and I could barely breathe with like the humidity. So, yeah. It was just like ugh. 351 01:01:03.448 --> 01:01:13.008 So we basically, I was like, if we're doing this, we, I am gaming this to within an inch of its life. And we went, the kids happened to have- Yeah... they were all still in elementary school, I think. 352 01:01:13.608 --> 01:01:21.888 And so like no real rules. Public school was great. And they had the four-day weekend in late January. And- Yep... 353 01:01:21.968 --> 01:01:33.388 so we were like, one, we'll just take off the other days, and two, it's late January, so no like, the weather can't get better th- in Orlando than it really is right now Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 354 01:01:33.388 --> 01:01:41.008 Yeah Because like you said, the rest of the time it's like a horror show. It's I'm not doing it. Yeah. It's- Everyone's gonna be miserable. It's, they're gonna complain I, yeah I'm gonna fucking complain. No, so- Yeah... 355 01:01:41.148 --> 01:01:49.068 the odds of us like striking lightning twice p- Yeah... on purpose are slim, so maybe leave it that way. But yeah. No, I

get it. Yeah. I get it. 356 01:01:49.208 --> 01:02:01.488 And so whereas Disneyland, I c- I describe it as the best of the four parks of Disney World smushed into two parks- Mm-hmm... that you can walk between- Mm-hmm... and you can walk from the hotel. 357 01:02:01.528 --> 01:02:06.948 So like I've timed from where I stay, it takes four minutes to get to, you know, security. It's like very close. 358 01:02:07.708 --> 01:02:17.588 People laugh if they've been to Disney World and they go to Disneyland because like the castle's like mini, it's like really neat. Everything is just, they just don't have, you know, as much space- Yeah, no... 359 01:02:17.688 --> 01:02:26.408 and it's just... You know, but I, I think I read something like up to 80% of people in Disneyland at, at any given day are local. Mm-hmm. 360 01:02:26.428 --> 01:02:35.468 Whereas at Disney World it's, you know, tourists, international, like whatever, just 'cause like you said, it is bigger, it's more well-known, it's, it's- Well, I've got, this is a much smaller version, but we've got Busch Gardens- Yeah... 361 01:02:35.488 --> 01:02:41.768 Williamsburg is less than five minutes from my house. Oh, yeah, yeah. Busch Gardens. I've been there. Yeah. And it is I think 31 years in a row has been rated the most beautiful- Yeah... 362 01:02:41.828 --> 01:02:49.988 theme park in America 'cause it's in the middle of a fucking forest. Yeah. And same thing. Yeah. Locals go all the time- Yeah... 'cause it is just a nice- Yeah... little escape. It's so close. 363 01:02:50.028 --> 01:02:58.288 Like you said, the annual pass pays for itself in a heartbeat. Yeah. You know, it could be w- it could be like one of the concrete jungle ones, and which would be like, I- Yeah... I don't wanna do it. 364 01:02:58.728 --> 01:03:02.228 But it's pretty great. Yeah. So yeah. No, I get it. I get it. Totally. 365 01:03:02.428 --> 01:03:13.388 I, like you, well, again, I love when someone is enthusiastic about something and, and talks about it, and also it hel- it is helpful to my personal philosophy, you're call to, you know, call to arms from moms traveling alone. 366 01:03:13.568 --> 01:03:24.548 But I have- Yeah... a question for you about kid travel that is very specific- Yeah... but you might be the right person to, to ask. We have not dealt with taking the kids to Europe or incurring- Mm-hmm... 367 01:03:24.588 --> 01:03:37.368 jet lag in general because of James' ADHD medicin- medicine. And I wanna know how- Sure... you have hacked timing ADHD medicine on inter- international flights with a kid who needs to be medicated. 368 01:03:37.408 --> 01:03:46.988 Like when, the timing of the flight, when you give them the pill, you know, all those things. 'Cause James has to have his in the morning, and skipping it is awful for everyone. And we have done that- Right... 369 01:03:46.988 --> 01:03:54.228 where we got up so early for a flight that, that I, I just don't, don't even wanna think about it. It was so unpleasant. Yeah. So yeah, how do you guys handle that? 370 01:03:54.668 --> 01:04:03.148 Yeah, I mean, my daughter takes, I think, four or five different medications, always in the morning. And so 371 01:04:04.148 --> 01:04:12.548 one thing I learned very early, because we were traveling with them when they were very young internationally, is it's really hard to force certain things. 372 01:04:12.588 --> 01:04:18.168 So we used to try and force them to take naps and force them to, and then we just- Oh, yeah... gave up on all of that. 373 01:04:18.388 --> 01:04:33.808 And now, you know, if we have a long flight, I used to freak out if she was on the iPad the entire time and did not sleep 'cause I'm like this, but now I'm just like, "You can't make somebody sleep," just like before I couldn't make her go to the bathroom. 374 01:04:33.828 --> 01:04:46.088 Yeah. So on the flights, I just kind of let them do whatever they're going to do. With the medicine timing, what I've normally d- done is just quickly switch over to the time of where we are. 375 01:04:46.888 --> 01:05:01.588 So, you know, there might be one rough day in there, but also you can, you can sometimes time it so that maybe it's not exactly when they took it at home, but it's a few hours off on either side, and then get closer as you go on. 376 01:05:02.268 --> 01:05:11.108 So, you know, we've always had to take her meds. We've always had to have her eat them, you know, take them with food. We kind of have to hide a lot of them in food. 377 01:05:11.128 --> 01:05:20.008 I mean, she knows she's taking them, but it's like she can't swallow pills still. Mm-hmm. So it's, you know, we have all these methods, and I think just, you know, kinda trying to slowly 378 01:05:21.368 --> 01:05:31.748 get to that next time zone and, and start, you know, giving up your time zone and just be like, "All right, if you're supposed to take it in the morning, we're now taking it in the morning in France." 379 01:05:31.848 --> 01:05:43.688 And there might be that 24 hours that's rough, but you know, trying just... And I also usually try and keep everybody awake as long as we possibly can anywhere we get to. Mm-hmm. 380 01:05:43.728 --> 01:05:55.088 And, and then crash kind of at, you know, maybe it's a little bit earlier than we normally would- Okay... at their time, but then you can, you know, if you kinda make it through that miserable first day- Yeah... 381 01:05:55.428 --> 01:06:02.848 then it'll be a lot better for everybody. That was another... When I went to Sweden, that was another time that I was so glad I didn't have the kids with me when I was jet lagged, but I was like, "That's only on me." 382 01:06:02.908 --> 01:06:10.708 Right, right, right. So I'm just gonna take myself out to dinner- Yeah... and read and stay awake and walk around until I... Yes, and I was like, "I'm so glad I'm not- And we kind of just-... dealing with another body." 383 01:06:10.768 --> 01:06:15.908 Yeah, we, again, we,

yeah, we very much learned the hard way not to pack itineraries. 384 01:06:16.308 --> 01:06:33.308 My daughter has a very, very, very hard time with, with traveling internationally, very hard, to the point where we've stopped doing it, you know, like we used to do it every break, and now we, we just know that that is gonna send her into another burnout spiral that will be horrible. 385 01:06:33.948 --> 01:06:38.128 So now it's like we're doing very low-key, you know, itineraries. 386 01:06:38.228 --> 01:06:47.648 We had gone to Hong Kong for spring break, and I spent about 80% of the time, maybe even 90% of the time, in the hotel room with her, while my son and husband ran around. 387 01:06:47.668 --> 01:06:53.468 And I just had resigned myself to, "I wanna go to Hong Kong Disneyland." Yeah. "And I wanna do this, this." 388 01:06:53.988 --> 01:07:04.448 And I got to do those things, but the rest of the time I was pretty much looking out the window at, you know, Hong Kong and not experiencing it. Yeah. And it's just like, "I want to go. This is how it has to be." Yeah. 389 01:07:04.528 --> 01:07:13.828 You know, and that's fine. It's fine. Yeah. And, and, and the other thing I would say to parents is nothing is forever. It's very hard to remember when you're in the thick of it. 390 01:07:13.908 --> 01:07:24.468 It's very hard to remember and not have total despair over, "Is this my life forever?" Or, "Is this this moment forever?" And it's nothing is forever, and with every, 391 01:07:25.408 --> 01:07:37.076 you know, kind of milestone of a, of a kid growing up, things, some things might get better, some things might get a little bit worse, but in general it tends to get better, so. Good advice. 392 01:07:37.476 --> 01:07:40.176 Thank you for coming on and talking about PDA, which is, I... 393 01:07:40.556 --> 01:07:52.515 There's another evil witch who has twins who I believe, based on what she had told me, also has, they also have it, and she talked the same thing about having to kind of let them, and how much it went against every grain in her body. 394 01:07:53.196 --> 01:08:02.016 But I feel like that's a lot of- It's really tough... I mean, I'm not saying this in a hooray way. I wish this wasn't the case, but there's so much of parenting that's like that, and- Yeah... you know. Right, right. 395 01:08:02.076 --> 01:08:12.356 So yeah, so I, you know, she's a lucky kid that she has parents who are so curious, and obviously can, you know, meet her where she's at. But I'm sure, you know- Yeah... 396 01:08:12.396 --> 01:08:21.196 I don't blame you for, for needing your, your breaks, you know, and anything like that. Yeah. Right. Right. Quinn, did you have any questions or anything like that? No. No. 397 01:08:21.316 --> 01:08:31.176 It's makes my day seem a little easier, and my kids are idiots. So yeah. Mm-hmm. Thanks for being a great mom. It's, it is fucking- Yeah. Yeah. It is fucking hard work, man. No, no, it's... Are you publishing right now? 398 01:08:31.376 --> 01:08:41.896 Anything that people should find you at? Erika is an OG blogger and writer, but I don't know if you have stuff you've been- No, no, no. I mean, I'm, if, if anybody wants to follow, like, all of my... 399 01:08:42.076 --> 01:08:55.196 I, I usually only post when I'm traveling, because otherwise, yeah, I'm just here. Or I pars- post very sarcastic things. But I'm Erika, E-R-I-K-A, S-O-L-S-O-N on Instagram. 400 01:08:55.496 --> 01:09:07.116 I'm working on stuff, but nothing like publishing right now. Okay. And how's high school, being a high school parent going so far, by the way, before we sign off? Oh, yikes. Yeah, that's definitely another- 401 01:09:08.116 --> 01:09:10.956 That's fair for two... that's definitely another... Yeah. 402 01:09:11.516 --> 01:09:24.456 I, you know, both of my kids were in Chicago Public Schools since they were three, and now my son is in a private Catholic high school that he's going to get Saturday detention already, like back in the day Breakfast Club. 403 01:09:24.556 --> 01:09:32.216 I mean, they're known as like one of the strictest high school. If you don't have your ID, it's a demerit. If you don't, you know, have... 404 01:09:32.256 --> 01:09:44.496 Does, he got a demerit 'cause another kid left his tray on the same lunch table they all sat in. So I mean, they're trying to really instill the it takes a village or community looking out for each other. Wow. 405 01:09:44.535 --> 01:09:59.436 So there's just demerits flying all over the place. But once I learned, and this might not be fair, but once I learned that some of my friends with older girls also got Saturday detention, then I'm like, "Okay." Right. 406 01:09:59.556 --> 01:10:07.116 If even, even the girls are getting detention, then I can't come down too hard on him, 'cause it's a huge transition. I mean, he- Sure. Yeah... 407 01:10:07.136 --> 01:10:13.176 was tardy 29 times, you know, at his last school, and they don't do anything. You know what I mean? Yeah. 408 01:10:13.196 --> 01:10:22.876 So it's hard to go from that, you know, they got bigger issues to wor- But where as here, it's if you forget your ID, you get a demerit. It's like- Got it. But you guys are really living like such different universes. 409 01:10:22.876 --> 01:10:31.216 ... a rough transition. Can you imagine your daughter, you know, having to live w- by those rules? You guys probably have- Oh, that, no. She would not- Yeah... live by those rules. Yeah. So. 410 01:10:31.736 --> 01:10:42.376 Well, if it makes you feel better, I have another child in my family who has had detention this year, but I won't name names. But so yeah, just living that- Yeah... bad boys only life. Poor moms. 411 01:10:42.376 --> 01:10:53.436 Erika, thanks for raising your hand and, and telling, and coming on to talk. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I like, and, and I feel, I love that you contain such multitudes as Disney, and then, you know, speaking up on this. 412 01:10:54.256 --> 01:11:04.176 Right. But yeah, it was great to talk to you. We, we started this because we were like, "This cannot be an advice show." It is truly a commiseration show from, from, from the top and to the bottom. Yeah, it's, it's true. 413 01:11:04.176 --> 01:11:21.436 Yeah. And that's, that's important to keep that. And so thank you for sharing your commiseration with us. Of course. Yeah. That's it for this week. 414 01:11:21.616 --> 01:11:32.696 You're gonna make it. You're doing great. Or you're just doing it, or just you, period. Just stop right there. But for more, you can hit subscribe right in your podcast player of choice. 415 01:11:32.876 --> 01:11:39.256 Please share our show with another parent in your life, or anyone who might get a kick out of listening to what the hell we're going through. 416 01:11:39.556 --> 01:11:47.696 And if you have literally three seconds, just push your thumb against the five-star review button wherever you might be listening. But no pressure. Honestly, we know you're busy. 417 01:11:47.876 --> 01:12:13.536 Head to notrightnow.show for more, or send us feedback, questions, horror stories, doxing, whatever it is, at questions@notrightnow.show. 418 01:12:15.676 --> 01:12:25.876 [echos]