บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Neil Forsyth

--> 00:01:48.099 stories like that. when you do what I do. You 39 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:49.930 get offered a lot of stories that people say, oh, 40 00:01:49.939 --> 00:01:52.180 there's this amazing true story and there's some sort of connection. 41 00:01:53.269 --> 00:01:56.909 And when you look into it, often it's like a film, really, 42 00:01:56.930 --> 00:01:58.989 because just not enough happens. So you think that would 43 00:01:59.010 --> 00:02:00.750 be a great film. But for me, I like writing 44 00:02:00.950 --> 00:02:04.849 six episodes, ideally a second series. You need a lot 45 00:02:04.890 --> 00:02:07.230 to happen to keep the pace up. Otherwise, you run 46 00:02:07.250 --> 00:02:11.860 out of story, basically. So After the Gold... we'd spoke 47 00:02:11.939 --> 00:02:14.659 to people who'd, they'd actually tried to make Legends as 48 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:17.409 a documentary series and hadn't managed to get it away 49 00:02:17.469 --> 00:02:21.449 as a documentary. So I just looked through the research 50 00:02:21.469 --> 00:02:23.449 that they'd done. They'd done a kind of initial burst 51 00:02:23.490 --> 00:02:27.270 of research. And I thought it sounded really interesting, but 52 00:02:27.530 --> 00:02:29.210 I wasn't sure I wanted to do another kind of 53 00:02:29.229 --> 00:02:31.490 true crime thing. And then I had lunch with Guy. 54 00:02:32.330 --> 00:02:35.069 So Tom Burke's character, the main legend, if you like, 55 00:02:35.090 --> 00:02:36.819 the one who goes really undercover in the first series. 56 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:43.069 So he's still alive, lives, you know, completely anonymously. It 57 00:02:43.110 --> 00:02:46.669 still doesn't use his real name, still takes lots of precautions. 58 00:02:47.250 --> 00:02:51.689 So I had lunch with him and I was probably 59 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:54.280 50-50 about doing it. And then when I sat and 60 00:02:54.300 --> 00:02:56.180 had lunch with him, I was sitting at the table 61 00:02:56.259 --> 00:02:57.379 and he came in. He said, do you mind if 62 00:02:57.400 --> 00:02:59.060 I sit there? He sits on his leg or whatever. 63 00:02:59.099 --> 00:03:01.379 So he sat down and then it was during the 64 00:03:01.419 --> 00:03:04.479 lunch where I realised that he'd actually sat there so 65 00:03:04.500 --> 00:03:07.210 he could see the door of the restaurant. And I 66 00:03:07.629 --> 00:03:10.710 thought it was really powerful. You know, he's 30 years later. 67 00:03:11.539 --> 00:03:12.840 And I said to him, is that why you sat there? 68 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.060 And he said, yes. And I thought, God, when it's 69 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:19.250 had that effect on someone, you realise just how significant 70 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:21.189 it was and that kind of just got me really interested. 71 00:03:21.330 --> 00:03:22.870 And then he introduced me to a few of the 72 00:03:22.909 --> 00:03:26.830 others and I just drove around meeting these people that 73 00:03:26.870

--> 00:03:28.009 lived totally. 74 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.479 What you see as normal lives, they're all retired, they're 75 00:03:31.860 --> 00:03:34.020 all basically retired. So the characters in that first series, 76 00:03:34.180 --> 00:03:35.039 you've met them? 77 00:03:35.060 --> 00:03:36.620 I met a lot of them, yeah, some of them 78 00:03:36.659 --> 00:03:38.599 are composite characters based on two or three, but I 79 00:03:38.620 --> 00:03:41.009 met half a dozen that did it, you know, they 80 00:03:41.030 --> 00:03:43.689 worked as a team, went undercover, very, very dangerous work, 81 00:03:44.650 --> 00:03:47.229 and I met the boss character as well, who's sort 82 00:03:47.250 --> 00:03:50.330 of retired, but yeah, it's crazy, you sit in these 83 00:03:50.349 --> 00:03:52.810 houses and, you know, they talk about playing golf and 84 00:03:53.099 --> 00:03:55.219 bowling or whatever and then they'd say oh yeah I 85 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:58.280 also went undercover to Liverpool Drugs Gang in 1992. 86 00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:00.520 You must constantly live an edge though that you're saying 87 00:04:00.539 --> 00:04:02.159 about that guy having to see the door. 88 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:04.979 Yeah well it affected them, it definitely affected them and 89 00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:06.919 that's something we tried to convey in the show and 90 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:08.990 I think we'll probably get even further into in the 91 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:14.530 second series is that it had real kind of integral 92 00:04:15.150 --> 00:04:17.529 shift within them as a result not all positive you 93 00:04:17.569 --> 00:04:22.490 know in some ways they never recovered because I think 94 00:04:22.509 --> 00:04:24.750 what was really interesting about the people in Legends, being 95 00:04:24.810 --> 00:04:27.839 customs officers, what I found exciting was that they're not 96 00:04:27.899 --> 00:04:31.139 police and they're not intelligence services. So they don't have 97 00:04:31.180 --> 00:04:34.339 this massive framework of support at all. And they don't 98 00:04:34.379 --> 00:04:36.959 have much money. They have a terrible budget. So they 99 00:04:36.980 --> 00:04:41.269 just go and do this stuff on the cheap, basically. 100 00:04:41.850 --> 00:04:44.129 And then they'd go home to their families and they'd 101 00:04:44.149 --> 00:04:46.990 have people checking in them here and there, but they very, very. 102 00:04:46.810 --> 00:04:47.970 Rarely had anyone watching. 103 00:04:48.050 --> 00:04:48.230 Yeah. 104 00:04:48.529 --> 00:04:50.709 They'd be going into these situations totally on their own, 105 00:04:50.810 --> 00:04:54.170 into like pubs to meet drug dealers and things. And 106 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.480 minimal training, just living off their wits really. So it's 107 00:04:57.899 --> 00:04:59.959 a brilliant story. I was very glad to kind of 108 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:00.319 find it. 109 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:03.259 How long does that take for you to write then, usually? 110 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:05.759 It's kind of about, a rule of thumb is about 111 00:05:05.790 --> 00:05:10.810 a year's writing and a year's production. So two years cycle. 112 00:05:10.910 --> 00:05:12.889 And it's a long time. And it's kind of. 113 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:15.300 we'll still get a wee bit of a wait for the. 114 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:18.660 Series yeah yeah I think it'll be probably get on 115 00:05:18.740 --> 00:05:20.699 to TV in about 18 months probably by the time 116 00:05:20.730 --> 00:05:23.370 I've written it and made it but it's kind of 117 00:05:24.689 --> 00:05:27.050 as you get older I mean very lucky to have 118 00:05:27.069 --> 00:05:28.430 got to this point it's taken me a long time 119 00:05:28.470 --> 00:05:29.769 to get to this point in terms of writing and 120 00:05:29.790 --> 00:05:33.509 things but equally you do think because two years for 121 00:05:34.019 --> 00:05:36.550 six hours of television is that in that statistic as 122 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:38.569 you get older you think god is this why we 123 00:05:38.589 --> 00:05:41.310 want to do the next decade that's only five series 124 00:05:41.850 --> 00:05:43.889 you start parceling your life out a little bit but 125 00:05:44.350 --> 00:05:46.509 yeah i can't complain and i think it just takes 126 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:48.319 a lot of work to get it right. 127 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:50.959 And then the production you know it must be so 128 00:05:50.980 --> 00:05:54.220 rewarding though with the finish yeah you know how it's 129 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:55.959 been perceived as well. 130 00:05:55.779 --> 00:05:58.060 Yeah definitely then when you get a nice reception to 131 00:05:58.139 --> 00:05:59.870 it just makes such a difference because you kind of 132 00:05:59.889 --> 00:06:03.459 think It's really a reward for hard work. People work 133 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:07.170 so hard on it. Obviously, you're not going down the 134 00:06:07.209 --> 00:06:09.230 mines and everything else, and it's well rewarded and things, 135 00:06:09.269 --> 00:06:13.629 but it's proper hard graft when you're making shows and 136 00:06:14.009 --> 00:06:17.610 your long days. And then the weekends, I'm always working 137 00:06:17.649 --> 00:06:19.250 on the scripts in terms of things that are coming up. 138 00:06:19.290 --> 00:06:21.550 So it's seven days a week for a few months, 139 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:26.949 and it becomes completely all consuming. So you're, it's, but 140 00:06:27.129 --> 00:06:28.569 you put in that work and then hopefully get the 141 00:06:28.589 --> 00:06:31.110 payoff of people enjoying it. And it's brilliant. 142 00:06:31.209 --> 00:06:33.370 And the people that actually done it. 143 00:06:33.829 --> 00:06:34.050 Yeah. 144 00:06:34.290 --> 00:06:36.629 You know, because they wouldn't have got recognition at the time. 145 00:06:37.089 --> 00:06:37.550 Well, definitely. 146 00:06:37.569 --> 00:06:40.189 So all

the years later, they're like starting to go, wow, 147 00:06:40.550 --> 00:06:43.449 it's actually an incredible job that we've done. Yeah. You know, 148 00:06:43.490 --> 00:06:44.300 for a little reward. 149 00:06:44.829 --> 00:06:46.720 Yeah. And that's definitely been one of the nicest things 150 00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:50.279 for it is undercover, old undercover customs agents. Once I've 151 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:52.220 not met, get in touch one way or another. Yeah. 152 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:54.819 and say that they really enjoyed it and we got 153 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:56.300 it right. And that kind of means a lot, I think. 154 00:06:56.920 --> 00:06:57.120 Right. 155 00:06:58.819 --> 00:07:01.699 So would you say that's your most noticeable piece of 156 00:07:01.740 --> 00:07:04.220 work just now? Is it just because it's been Netflix? 157 00:07:04.819 --> 00:07:07.889 Well, I mean, it's interesting. So, I mean, the most 158 00:07:07.930 --> 00:07:10.709 significant things in my career would have been I started 159 00:07:10.750 --> 00:07:13.029 off in kind of comedy. Well, I started off writing 160 00:07:13.069 --> 00:07:15.779 and journalism and things and then got into comedy. And 161 00:07:15.819 --> 00:07:17.779 then I made a show called Guilt, which was an 162 00:07:18.379 --> 00:07:20.879 Edinburgh-based Scottish drama. That made a huge difference to me 163 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:25.139 because that got me into writing drama, one-hour drama. That 164 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:27.899 was the BBC Scotland channel. Part of their launch, they 165 00:07:27.939 --> 00:07:30.600 commissioned Guilt and took a real chance on me. I'd 166 00:07:30.620 --> 00:07:35.139 never done drama before. So that was really significant for me, 167 00:07:35.939 --> 00:07:38.889 three series of that. And then The Gold was, they've 168 00:07:38.910 --> 00:07:41.990 all been significant in different ways. The Gold was BBC One, primetime, 169 00:07:42.189 --> 00:07:44.149 Sunday night, nine o'clock, the kind of big slot in. 170 00:07:44.889 --> 00:07:46.490 That got, you know, the first series of Gold ended 171 00:07:46.550 --> 00:07:49.220 up getting about 10 million viewers, which is one in 172 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:51.980 five of the British adult population. I always think every 173 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:56.220 five-a-side team, one of them watched it. And then, so that, 174 00:07:56.259 --> 00:07:59.350 you got that proper, you know, hard people talking about it. 175 00:07:59.379 --> 00:08:01.459 I heard people talking about it on Tube and things 176 00:08:01.490 --> 00:08:03.230 like that, so that was kind of mad, you know. 177 00:08:04.050 --> 00:08:06.129 And then the big thing with Netflix was, it's the 178 00:08:06.149 --> 00:08:09.769 international side of it, because that was just crazy, you know. 179 00:08:09.829 --> 00:08:12.689 Day one, it gets released in every single country at 180 00:08:12.730 --> 00:08:16.680 the same time, you know. So you get this, I 181 00:08:16.699 --> 00:08:18.500 get sent, I got sent every day these sort of 182 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:21.560 top 10 charts from 63 countries and it's funny you're 183 00:08:21.579 --> 00:08:24.220 watching it go up and down. And no real rhyme 184 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:26.430 or reason, you can't, you don't understand the countries it's 185 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:30.329 done well in and, you know, and kind of drop down. 186 00:08:30.370 --> 00:08:33.269 So it was that feeling of like, God, around the world, 187 00:08:33.330 --> 00:08:35.629 and then you're up to, I don't know, probably internationally 188 00:08:35.870 --> 00:08:37.929 up to about 40, 50 million, I'd say, for legends 189 00:08:37.980 --> 00:08:39.519 in terms of, so it's hard to get your head 190 00:08:39.539 --> 00:08:43.029 around that really. But I think that, I think the, 191 00:08:43.889 --> 00:08:46.919 BBC and Netflix are kind of they both offer different 192 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:51.100 things Netflix gives you the international aspect you can't ignore 193 00:08:51.139 --> 00:08:55.679 that it's huge but then BBC I still really like 194 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:58.519 that time slot because obviously Netflix it just all gets 195 00:08:58.580 --> 00:09:01.960 dropped but I always think with the BBC with the 196 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:05.100 gold 9 o'clock on a Sunday I'm like right now 197 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:08.600 however many people are watching that I still find it 198 00:09:08.620 --> 00:09:11.210 kind of mind blowing really So. 199 00:09:11.289 --> 00:09:14.009 When you left school, was that your career path of choice? 200 00:09:14.269 --> 00:09:15.789 It would have been, but I didn't really... I mean, 201 00:09:15.830 --> 00:09:19.570 a school... How did you come to where you are? 202 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:22.080 I read that you did a wee bit of sports journalism. 203 00:09:22.100 --> 00:09:23.879 Yeah, it was football writing and things. Well, when I 204 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:26.320 was at school, you know, English was by far my 205 00:09:26.379 --> 00:09:28.580 better subject, my history as well, when you wrote essays 206 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:31.000 and things. But it's definitely what I wanted to do, 207 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:34.659 was be a writer. I wrote for... When I was 208 00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:36.559 a teenager, I wrote for Dundee United fanzine, so that 209 00:09:36.580 --> 00:09:38.360 was kind of what I started writing, and that was 210 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:40.700 really exciting. I was 13. 211 00:09:40.700 --> 00:09:41.440 What year was that then? 212 00:09:41.460 --> 00:09:42.120 What team was that? 213 00:09:42.460 --> 00:09:47.700 Well, it would have been sort of 92-ish. So you're 214 00:09:47.740 --> 00:09:50.470 kind of building up to the 94 team that won 215 00:09:50.490 --> 00:09:54.429 the Scottish Cup. So 92, you would be, you know, 216 00:09:54.450 --> 00:09:57.049 when I started, yeah, when I started Sporting United,

it 217 00:09:57.070 --> 00:09:59.929 was the sort of, just after the sort of championships. 218 00:10:00.029 --> 00:10:01.679 winning team really I was obviously very aware of them 219 00:10:01.700 --> 00:10:04.500 so you still had through the 80s you still had 220 00:10:05.580 --> 00:10:08.259 Hegarty and Nary and Luggy Holt Ralphie Mill and people 221 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:11.779 like that and then you saw the team came a 222 00:10:11.820 --> 00:10:14.259 little bit after them into the UEFA Cup team the 223 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:16.840 Gothenburg team which was sort of more like Davey Bowman 224 00:10:17.379 --> 00:10:19.940 Mack and Ali McKinley players like this who kind of 225 00:10:20.379 --> 00:10:21.559 sort of merge those two teams. 226 00:10:21.580 --> 00:10:25.299 I actually played before that game for a Dundee United 227 00:10:25.340 --> 00:10:28.159 select when I was a kid. Oh really? 228 00:10:28.179 --> 00:10:29.360 In the Gothenburg? 229 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:32.700 Before the Gothenburg game at Tannadice, which is bizarre then 230 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:34.840 you end up obviously years later being the manager, but 231 00:10:34.860 --> 00:10:37.750 I used to train with Dundee United at a training 232 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:42.690 centre in Edinburgh at Rickerton, which is where Hart's trained now. 233 00:10:43.529 --> 00:10:45.529 And then I got asked up to play in that 234 00:10:45.570 --> 00:10:47.190 game before the Gothenburg game. 235 00:10:47.700 --> 00:10:50.629 You know just on the pitch there's a little. 236 00:10:50.450 --> 00:10:56.909 Pitch before it yeah yeah we lost that's yeah Gothenburg 237 00:10:57.740 --> 00:10:59.980 famously the pitch was so up-polling because there'd been a 238 00:11:00.019 --> 00:11:03.059 Bruce Springsteen concert a few days before David Bowman still 239 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:06.700 talks about that and er But that run, so that's 240 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:07.360 where I kind of came in. 241 00:11:07.460 --> 00:11:09.070 You know, one of my first games at Talladega is 242 00:11:09.090 --> 00:11:10.710 we beat Barcelona in the UEFA Cup. 243 00:11:10.789 --> 00:11:10.990 Yeah. 244 00:11:11.009 --> 00:11:11.710 Kevin Gallagher won. 245 00:11:11.909 --> 00:11:12.450 John Clarke. 246 00:11:12.470 --> 00:11:13.169 Kevin Gallagher. 247 00:11:13.190 --> 00:11:15.830 Yeah, Gallagher. Clark scored over in Camp Nou, yeah. In 248 00:11:15.889 --> 00:11:17.990 Camp Nou, yeah. So, you know, I think that's... So 249 00:11:18.009 --> 00:11:19.049 that was one of your first games? I think my 250 00:11:19.090 --> 00:11:21.029 first game, we drew Neil and Neil Hamilton. Don't get 251 00:11:21.049 --> 00:11:22.169 any better than that. I think we drew Neil and 252 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:27.019 Neil Hamilton in my first game and beat Barcelona. Wow. Yeah, 253 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.820 and that Barcelona game, you know, my grandad got tickets 254 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:33.259 for us all and my uncle came

up from, England, 255 00:11:33.299 --> 00:11:34.759 he was a big United fan from when he was young. 256 00:11:34.820 --> 00:11:36.440 There was about 10 of us there as the family, 257 00:11:36.460 --> 00:11:38.879 my brother and my dad and everything. And it's just unbelievable. 258 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:43.610 I still remember it so clearly, Gallagher's Gold. So that was, so, 259 00:11:43.669 --> 00:11:45.429 you know, writing for the fanzine was my big kind 260 00:11:45.470 --> 00:11:48.250 of start in writing. And that's what I wanted to do. 261 00:11:48.289 --> 00:11:50.070 And I used to write it and sell it outside Tannadice. 262 00:11:50.090 --> 00:11:54.690 It was brilliant fun. Largely taking like Roy of the 263 00:11:54.710 --> 00:11:57.129 Rovers comic strips and then I'd tip X out the 264 00:11:57.169 --> 00:11:59.679 speech bubbles and just write in something offensive about Jim 265 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:02.460 Duffy or something like that. So it wasn't a tall story, 266 00:12:02.500 --> 00:12:05.500 but that was kind of my start in writing. And 267 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:12.279 that was a big part of, you know, anything extra 268 00:12:12.299 --> 00:12:13.970 at school in a little media department, I'd go and 269 00:12:14.149 --> 00:12:15.830 do extra stuff there. I remember I went and interviewed 270 00:12:15.990 --> 00:12:18.009 wee Jim as part of that. Jim McLean. 271 00:12:18.029 --> 00:12:19.070 I had a minute experience. 272 00:12:19.269 --> 00:12:24.830 Yeah, exactly. Well, my uncle Bill, my grandfather Bill, played 273 00:12:24.850 --> 00:12:25.379 bowls with Jim. 274 00:12:25.409 --> 00:12:25.580 Right. 275 00:12:26.490 --> 00:12:29.210 In the bowling club on Albert Road, which Jim famously 276 00:12:29.250 --> 00:12:34.110 got banned from for abusing the referees. I remember my 277 00:12:34.149 --> 00:12:36.169 Uncle Bill said he was involved in, I think, the 278 00:12:36.190 --> 00:12:38.029 meeting where they had to tell Jim that he was banned. 279 00:12:38.289 --> 00:12:40.090 And my Uncle Bill said it was the scariest thing 280 00:12:40.129 --> 00:12:42.470 he'd ever done. And my Uncle Bill fought in Italy 281 00:12:42.490 --> 00:12:46.429 in the Second World War. He said that disciplinary meeting 282 00:12:46.460 --> 00:12:49.879 at the bowling club was far worse than the Italian campaign. So, 283 00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:52.860 you know, it went up and interviewed Jim for the 284 00:12:52.899 --> 00:12:56.009 school media thing and and I remember I went in 285 00:12:56.049 --> 00:12:58.330 and I was I was 14 and he said right 286 00:12:58.450 --> 00:13:00.149 and it was just a girl from my class with 287 00:13:00.190 --> 00:13:02.210 a video camera and me and he said right so 288 00:13:02.230 --> 00:13:04.110 take us in the boardroom I said show me your 289 00:13:04.149 --> 00:13:06.159 questions and I went oh right I gave him my 290 00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:10.659 questions scored like half of them I really said I 291

00:13:11.539 --> 00:13:13.019 asked I remember I asked him a question in an 292 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:15.559 interview where I said um do you think United should 293 00:13:15.580 --> 00:13:19.070 spend a bit more on transfers? And he just went potty. 294 00:13:19.110 --> 00:13:20.909 And he said to me, I remember he called me 295 00:13:21.009 --> 00:13:25.009 hopelessly naive, and I was 14 at the time, because 296 00:13:25.029 --> 00:13:28.830 I didn't understand what United's transfer budget should be. So 297 00:13:29.009 --> 00:13:33.620 lots of little writing things, always around football. But I 298 00:13:33.649 --> 00:13:36.299 think it was difficult, because it was kind of like pre-internet. 299 00:13:37.220 --> 00:13:39.620 And same for you, I'm sure. Pre-internet, the world always 300 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:43.039 seems much bigger and scarier, and you felt so far 301 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:43.940 from all these things. 302 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:44.120 Yes. 303 00:13:44.740 --> 00:13:47.679 Growing up in Dundee, didn't know anyone that had worked 304 00:13:47.779 --> 00:13:50.500 in creative arts. You're sometimes reading The Courier about maybe 305 00:13:51.059 --> 00:13:53.419 Brian Cox or Ricky Ross or someone like that. So 306 00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:57.120 you see that people had done these things. So I 307 00:13:57.139 --> 00:13:59.019 kind of drifted about a little bit. I went to university, 308 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:00.940 but I didn't quite have the guts to do writing. 309 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:04.200 Went down to London for a couple of years. And 310 00:14:04.659 --> 00:14:07.100 then I thought, I want to be a writer. I 311 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:09.919 think I've got a chance here. So I went back 312 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:12.700 to Scotland, went back to Edinburgh. and just worked in 313 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:14.059 a pub, worked for Kenny Waugh Jr. 314 00:14:14.059 --> 00:14:15.200 You probably know Kenny Waugh. 315 00:14:15.340 --> 00:14:18.200 Yeah, so Kenny had all the pubs around the Cowgate 316 00:14:18.220 --> 00:14:20.490 and things, so worked in the Three Sisters and places 317 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:24.659 like that. Yeah, yeah, and so well into my 20s, 318 00:14:24.850 --> 00:14:29.789 worked for Kenny and around, he had a nightclub, Faith 319 00:14:29.870 --> 00:14:33.129 nightclub in Cowgate I worked at and I was just 320 00:14:33.149 --> 00:14:35.309 working every night and then during the day trying to 321 00:14:35.330 --> 00:14:38.409 write and trying to get work of some sort of nature. 322 00:14:39.549 --> 00:14:42.649 So it was things like football websites and Wednesday, Saturday 323 00:14:42.700 --> 00:14:45.299 comes little football magazines and then the Scotsman and the 324 00:14:45.340 --> 00:14:48.899 Herald started giving me a little bit of work doing 325 00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:50.000 match reports and things. 326 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:52.340 Was it articles or more match reports? 327 00:14:52.379 --> 00:14:54.919 It started with match reports, which were brilliant. I mean, 328 00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:57.379 that was, first of all, I find it incredibly exciting 329 00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:59.539 as a big football fan to be in the press 330 00:14:59.570 --> 00:15:02.950 box and things. But equally, as a writing discipline, match 331 00:15:02.970 --> 00:15:06.529 reports are really, really good because you have X amount 332 00:15:06.549 --> 00:15:09.590 of words published you know, 300 words or something like 333 00:15:09.590 --> 00:15:12.529 400 words. So every single word has to count. So 334 00:15:12.710 --> 00:15:15.980 it teaches you to be so kind of interrogate yourself 335 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:17.879 with your choices and kind of tell this in a 336 00:15:17.899 --> 00:15:20.840 more succinct way. And then you obviously have to get 337 00:15:20.860 --> 00:15:23.139 the report in 15, 20 minutes after the final whistle. 338 00:15:24.139 --> 00:15:27.730 And this was just before, you know, everyone had Wi-Fi 339 00:15:27.789 --> 00:15:29.350 and you just emailed over. I was still phoning, you'd 340 00:15:29.370 --> 00:15:31.230 phone in, you'd phone in the match report. 341 00:15:31.389 --> 00:15:32.649 What year that would have been then? 342 00:15:33.429 --> 00:15:39.830 So that would have been, I would have been around 2003. 2003-ish, probably. 2003, maybe. 343 00:15:39.850 --> 00:15:45.769 Early noughties. Yeah, about then. So sort of starting to do... 344 00:15:45.690 --> 00:15:48.529 So yeah, 2003, 4, 5, 6, I'd be working in 345 00:15:48.549 --> 00:15:52.120 the pub, doing some match reports, doing some magazine things. 346 00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:55.159 I remember the first game I did was Motherwell Dundee, 347 00:15:55.299 --> 00:15:58.240 and then I did a lot of lower division games. 348 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:02.519 But I remember there was a game that I did, 349 00:16:03.100 --> 00:16:06.100 and I'd written the whole report, and one team were 350 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:07.320 very on top, I think it was like Ross, Kent, 351 00:16:07.340 --> 00:16:10.080 St Mirren, one team were totally on top, and I 352 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:12.240 was feeling pretty pleased with myself, pretty much written it, 353 00:16:12.289 --> 00:16:15.889 and the whole report was abdominal, it was too late goals, 354 00:16:15.990 --> 00:16:17.769 and I was completely fucked, and I was like, oh 355 00:16:17.789 --> 00:16:19.990 my god, so I'm frantically, 15 minutes to try and 356 00:16:20.009 --> 00:16:23.269 rewrite it, and this old school report was next to me, 357 00:16:23.450 --> 00:16:24.909 cool as you like, just having this cup of tea, 358 00:16:24.980 --> 00:16:26.980 and I phoned it in, and he said to me, 359 00:16:28.059 --> 00:16:30.379 listen sir, I'll give you a tip, you write the 360 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.570 first paragraph last, right, So what you do is you 361 00:16:33.590 --> 00:16:35.840 write the story of the game

quite kind of neutrally, 362 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:38.320 just what happened. And then the final whistle, you'd go 363 00:16:38.340 --> 00:16:42.080 and write the first paragraph and say, Ross County dominated today. 364 00:16:42.100 --> 00:16:44.940 And then you're covered, you know? And I'd also have 365 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:48.220 the ups and downs. And I remember the other one was, 366 00:16:49.230 --> 00:16:51.750 because I had no qualifications with these things. I just 367 00:16:51.789 --> 00:16:53.789 kept talking myself to the next stage of writing. And 368 00:16:53.809 --> 00:16:57.389 then I remember I did a Livingston game and they'd 369 00:16:57.549 --> 00:17:03.330 just signed... Fernandes so you'll know the punchline to this 370 00:17:03.389 --> 00:17:05.569 but I so I wrote this and I was like 371 00:17:05.589 --> 00:17:07.569 who the fuck is this guy and I thought someone 372 00:17:07.589 --> 00:17:10.910 said oh he's French right so anyway they won 1-0 373 00:17:11.190 --> 00:17:16.819 and I said won 1-0 the Gaelic typical Gaelic arrogance 374 00:17:16.859 --> 00:17:18.799 with the finish by the Frenchman or something like that 375 00:17:18.819 --> 00:17:22.119 anyway sent it in and really pleased myself I think 376 00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:23.940 it was Scotland Sunday hadn't really done anything for them 377 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:26.940 before and they're this really tough sports sport that used 378 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.359 to edit the games very pleased myself, got the paper 379 00:17:29.380 --> 00:17:31.900 the next day, sub-editor obviously got in, and it said 380 00:17:31.940 --> 00:17:34.240 a neat finish from the Spaniards, and I was like, oh, 381 00:17:34.259 --> 00:17:37.140 this is fucking hell. So all week I'm thinking, that's it, 382 00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:40.900 and it's over. How did you survive it? So you 383 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:43.240 had to phone up, I think you had to phone 384 00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:44.759 up on a Thursday to see if they'd give you 385 00:17:44.779 --> 00:17:46.680 a game at the weekend, so I phoned up, waited 386 00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:48.519 all week, so I phoned up on Thursday, could I 387 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:50.789 speak to the guy who got put through, just ringing, ringing, ringing, 388 00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:53.329 and he picked up the phone and he just went, Bonjour! 389 00:17:55.690 --> 00:17:58.329 And then he said, you know, Reith Rove or whatever. 390 00:17:58.349 --> 00:17:59.470 So Reith Rove was in his second. 391 00:17:59.490 --> 00:18:02.150 Did you have to mark the players as well at 10? 392 00:18:02.150 --> 00:18:05.019 Because that used to be the thing back then. 393 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:06.619 Dressing rooms, you got into that. 394 00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:07.960 I never quite did. 395 00:18:08.019 --> 00:18:09.380 I got a friend. 396 00:18:09.859 --> 00:18:13.940 Now everybody has a, you know, social media, everybody has 397 00:18:14.619 --> 00:18:15.400 a voice. 398 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.309 To tell you you were cheating. I know, you must 399 00:18:18.329 --> 00:18:20.089 have hated that fives and sixes. 400 00:18:20.170 --> 00:18:23.920 I mean, it's like there, but then... and then you're 401 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.539 playing in there going, I don't pay any attention to it, 402 00:18:26.579 --> 00:18:27.380 but you did. Yeah. 403 00:18:27.740 --> 00:18:28.980 You know what I mean? 404 00:18:29.019 --> 00:18:30.900 Yeah, you played, put me a five. 405 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:32.579 That's the guy who watched the game. 406 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.559 No, you must have hated it. I don't, well, luckily, 407 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:35.980 I don't think I ever did that, but it was, 408 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:38.400 but then, you know, and then they started to give 409 00:18:38.420 --> 00:18:41.450 me like more, go and interview people and things. I'll 410 00:18:41.470 --> 00:18:44.829 tell you, actually, one of my first interviews was Phil O'Donnell. 411 00:18:45.089 --> 00:18:46.390 You would have been with him down in Sheffield. 412 00:18:46.450 --> 00:18:46.650 Right. 413 00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:48.940 You came to Sheffield? You were there together, weren't you? 414 00:18:48.950 --> 00:18:49.089 Yeah. 415 00:18:49.170 --> 00:18:50.589 Yeah, so I came down for the day in the train. 416 00:18:50.609 --> 00:18:54.079 Did you? Surprised I wasn't there, we were joined to 417 00:18:54.099 --> 00:18:54.359 the hip. 418 00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:58.019 Yeah, well he picked me up, but this is incredible, 419 00:18:58.039 --> 00:18:59.599 so he picked me up, took me to somewhere, and 420 00:18:59.619 --> 00:19:04.309 I was so nervous, because I hadn't really done one-on-ones before. 421 00:19:05.289 --> 00:19:06.750 And it was like this, and I remember sitting there, 422 00:19:06.829 --> 00:19:10.529 and I remember recording everything, and chatting away, so filthy, 423 00:19:10.670 --> 00:19:13.410 and I was probably 23, 24 at the time, and 424 00:19:13.609 --> 00:19:15.430 just so nervous, you're such a nice guy, which you'll 425 00:19:15.450 --> 00:19:17.829 know better than me, and chatting away. Ten minutes in, 426 00:19:17.829 --> 00:19:20.150 I had that horrible thing, I was like, not press 427 00:19:20.170 --> 00:19:22.930 the record I'm not gonna and that horrible moment I 428 00:19:22.950 --> 00:19:26.109 said oh my god and it's building so anyway he 429 00:19:26.150 --> 00:19:28.910 sought he sought a guest right because I was going 430 00:19:29.069 --> 00:19:30.589 oh and he could see me play all the colours 431 00:19:30.650 --> 00:19:32.769 right from my face and I was going and he 432 00:19:32.789 --> 00:19:35.630 went have you forgotten to thing and what was so 433 00:19:35.710 --> 00:19:38.630 incredible he went just start again he said don't worry 434 00:19:38.650 --> 00:19:40.210 about it and I said well and he went no 435 00:19:40.230 --> 00:19:42.380 no ask exactly the same questions

again and stuff and 436 00:19:42.390 --> 00:19:46.710 he just um what a good he's a good boy 437 00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:50.000 so yeah lots of things like that and um and 438 00:19:50.019 --> 00:19:51.819 then from there i got into the sort of um 439 00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:56.259 men's magazines and sort of maximum fhm and stuff you 440 00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:58.180 know it was kind of they believe it or. 441 00:19:58.140 --> 00:20:00.559 Not breaks for you or was it just a natural. 442 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.000 Yeah well what you would do is you you know 443 00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:04.160 once i've done a few things like that i would 444 00:20:04.180 --> 00:20:07.609 then send a little you know email, like, try and 445 00:20:07.690 --> 00:20:10.369 find out the email address for, like, a features editor 446 00:20:10.430 --> 00:20:11.970 at a magazine and say, look, I've done this and that. 447 00:20:11.990 --> 00:20:13.670 Can you give me a chance? I've got the story idea. 448 00:20:13.730 --> 00:20:15.130 And he'd say, well, go and do that. We'll give you... 449 00:20:15.049 --> 00:20:16.829 And I was always just trying to get to the 450 00:20:16.869 --> 00:20:20.509 next level, you know, and the next opportunity, if you like. 451 00:20:20.769 --> 00:20:23.910 And then when I was working with these, the magazines 452 00:20:23.930 --> 00:20:26.849 were great. And I did, you know, it's funny, Neil Lennon, 453 00:20:28.109 --> 00:20:29.589 because I saw you had him on there, which I 454 00:20:29.589 --> 00:20:32.099 really enjoyed, on here, sorry. And he was brilliant with 455 00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:34.589 me as well, because I remember... What I used to 456 00:20:34.609 --> 00:20:36.599 do a lot of is just sell Scottish stories that 457 00:20:36.630 --> 00:20:39.359 we all knew, but to these English magazines. So I'd say, oh, 458 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:41.609 Neil Lennon's got this incredible story, everything that's happened to him. 459 00:20:41.619 --> 00:20:44.200 This one, he was captain at Celtic. And I remember 460 00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:47.200 I went and interviewed him for FHM at Parkhead. And 461 00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:49.339 then I think I went and interviewed for Maxi a 462 00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:51.779 few months later. And he said, all right, that's the same. 463 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:53.839 And then I went back a few months later for 464 00:20:54.339 --> 00:20:56.680 Front Magazine or something, just trying to get another 500 quid. 465 00:20:56.980 --> 00:20:59.299 I remember when he came out to the reception part, 466 00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:03.480 he went, are you taking the fucking page? And he went, 467 00:21:03.500 --> 00:21:06.000 do you get paid every time? And I went, yeah. 468 00:21:06.019 --> 00:21:07.299 And he went, oh, come on then. And just told 469 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:10.079 me the same anecdotes again. So yeah, there's lots of 470 00:21:10.099 --> 00:21:13.309 things like that. And then when I was doing those magazines, 471 00:21:13.349 --> 00:21:15.119 I found my first story became my first book. So 472 00:21:15.150 --> 00:21:17.490 I wrote about seven books in the end, but half 473 00:21:17.539 --> 00:21:19.920 a dozen before I did television. A couple of novels. 474 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.460 A true story of a young Glaswegian credit card fraudster. 475 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:27.039 A really interesting story. A guy called Elliot Castro from 476 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.859 Battlefield in Glasgow. It was a bit like Catch Me 477 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:31.640 If You Can. I mean, he just basically came up 478 00:21:31.660 --> 00:21:33.460 with this credit card fraud and he went around the world. 479 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:39.099 Went through a couple of million pounds. Incredible. And that 480 00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:42.380 was a good example whereby... I was just walking down 481 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:44.990 Leith Walk in Edinburgh where I lived, and there was 482 00:21:45.029 --> 00:21:48.970 a tiny bit in a Scottish newspaper saying, teenage Scottish 483 00:21:49.029 --> 00:21:53.269 con man jail. And it just said this teenage kid 484 00:21:53.289 --> 00:21:55.869 had stolen quite a lot of money using credit card fraud. 485 00:21:56.130 --> 00:21:58.180 And I was thinking, this is mad. There's got to 486 00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:00.640 be a lot more to it than this. And this 487 00:22:00.700 --> 00:22:02.119 is the thing at the time, because it was always 488 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.660 about finding stories, finding stories, and selling stories. So I 489 00:22:04.700 --> 00:22:07.119 was like, right, where did he get convicted? I think 490 00:22:07.180 --> 00:22:08.940 it was Isleworth, because he got caught. 491 00:22:09.009 --> 00:22:09.269 He threw. 492 00:22:10.269 --> 00:22:12.170 And then I worked out the local prison would have 493 00:22:12.190 --> 00:22:14.990 been Remand, probably Wormwood Scrubs. And I just wrote to 494 00:22:15.029 --> 00:22:18.319 Wormwood Scrubs, Elliot Castro, no prison number or anything. And 495 00:22:18.339 --> 00:22:20.619 about two weeks later, I got a reply. And he said, 496 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:23.180 you know, interesting, why would you like to tell my story? 497 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:24.700 I went back and forth. And then he got moved 498 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.039 to an open prison in Sussex. And I went down 499 00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:30.160 for the day, interviewed him. And that was an article 500 00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:32.569 in Maxim. And then I sent that article to publishers. 501 00:22:32.609 --> 00:22:35.190 And that became my first book deal, writing his story. 502 00:22:35.250 --> 00:22:37.619 So It's almost finding things. 503 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:41.509 You said you started with novels, and then you obviously 504 00:22:41.529 --> 00:22:44.789 got into that sort of stuff, finding stories, bringing them 505 00:22:44.829 --> 00:22:47.970 to the fore. Is that what you prefer to do? 506

00:22:48.029 --> 00:22:51.690 Yeah, so I've done two novels, which I find incredibly hard, 507 00:22:51.710 --> 00:22:56.769 to be honest. It's like you're making it. It sounds obvious, 508 00:22:56.789 --> 00:23:00.380 but it's the tyranny of possibility. If anything can happen, 509 00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:03.779 how do you decide what's going to happen? How do 510 00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.079 you feel confident you've made the right best choice? And 511 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:10.140 Guilt was fictional drama on TV. We did three series 512 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:14.119 of that and again, found it very difficult. And actually 513 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:16.829 they're kind of inspired by true events, kind of shows 514 00:23:16.869 --> 00:23:19.430 I do now. I do find them easier to be honest. 515 00:23:19.690 --> 00:23:21.130 I do find, yeah. And I think maybe because I 516 00:23:21.150 --> 00:23:23.309 started as a journalist, I quite enjoy the research period. 517 00:23:23.329 --> 00:23:25.630 I don't find it daunting. I like doing interviews and 518 00:23:26.130 --> 00:23:28.750 pulling stories out of people. And then I quite like 519 00:23:28.789 --> 00:23:31.410 piecing that together. And then the creative license is all 520 00:23:31.450 --> 00:23:35.049 there in terms of making a television show. But knowing 521 00:23:35.069 --> 00:23:39.119 the stories there, I kind of relax a bit so 522 00:23:39.140 --> 00:23:42.299 like Legends 2 for example the researcher I'll have a 523 00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:44.200 few meetings with him point in the right direction and 524 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:46.839 he'll give me this massive document of research. 525 00:23:47.019 --> 00:23:49.849 Alright guys we are here at the Drygate Brewery in 526 00:23:49.910 --> 00:23:53.089 Glasgow filming a couple of podcasts we'd just like to 527 00:23:53.130 --> 00:23:56.549 tell you about the 29th of November Drygate is throwing 528 00:23:56.589 --> 00:23:59.250 a massive St Andrew's Day party and trust us you 529 00:23:59.269 --> 00:24:01.849 don't want to miss this one we're talking proper Scottish 530 00:24:01.869 --> 00:24:04.630 celebrations brilliant entertainment 10. 531 00:24:04.410 --> 00:24:07.289 Inch stout have you tried that? Not yet. 532 00:24:07.930 --> 00:24:10.549 Sponsoring the day, charity involvement in an atmosphere that will 533 00:24:10.569 --> 00:24:11.210 be hard to beat. 534 00:24:11.230 --> 00:24:13.410 I think they've been giving St Paddy's Day one for 535 00:24:13.430 --> 00:24:14.890 their money, sir. They will be. 536 00:24:15.230 --> 00:24:17.759 So get your pals together, get your Scottish pride. 537 00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:19.640 Out and get yourselves down to the Drygate. 538 00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:25.380 Email hello at drygate.co.uk on at drygate on Instagram as well. 539 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:28.059 So get yourselves down And it's quite daunting because you've 540 00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:29.640 got to get six episodes of TV out of that.

541 00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:31.339 But at the same time, I know it's in there. 542 00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:32.859 So I can look at that document and say, I 543 00:24:32.900 --> 00:24:35.180 know the show is in there, the story is in there. 544 00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:38.049 And it partly relaxes because I don't have to come 545 00:24:38.109 --> 00:24:40.309 up with it. I have to join it together and 546 00:24:40.549 --> 00:24:43.190 work out how to tell it. But with fiction, that 547 00:24:43.230 --> 00:24:45.589 thing starting with a blank page, I do find it 548 00:24:46.390 --> 00:24:48.990 quite daunting. I'm glad I did it. I feel really 549 00:24:49.029 --> 00:24:50.990 pleased I did it and I've done it, but I 550 00:24:51.029 --> 00:24:51.710 don't feel any need. 551 00:24:51.630 --> 00:24:54.910 To do it. what was the comedy. 552 00:24:54.470 --> 00:24:59.950 Bob Servant Brian Cox yeah so that was and that 553 00:24:59.970 --> 00:25:02.390 was you know I'd written a couple of basically humour 554 00:25:02.410 --> 00:25:05.359 books based in Dundee kind of to make my mates 555 00:25:05.410 --> 00:25:08.059 laugh really you know and then managed to get the 556 00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:11.559 book to Brian that was a united connection to that 557 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:14.920 actually that was I was in New York for a 558 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:20.410 period doing some journalism and studying screenwriting and I'd written 559 00:25:20.430 --> 00:25:22.779 this Bob Servant book and it kind of so well 560 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.049 basically in Dundee and they'd been and gone and I 561 00:25:26.069 --> 00:25:27.950 went to watch United play Rangers so there's a Celtic 562 00:25:27.970 --> 00:25:29.450 pub and a Rangers pub in New York you probably 563 00:25:29.470 --> 00:25:32.539 know this and er We were playing Rangers in the 564 00:25:32.619 --> 00:25:35.220 quarter-final of the Scottish Cup. So it's a game when... 565 00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:38.640 I'm trying to think of you guys. It came off 566 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:41.180 Davey Robertson's arse, basically, and we won 1-0. I don't 567 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:43.160 think it was... The first one was... Yeah, your first game. 568 00:25:43.180 --> 00:25:44.250 That was 1-3-1. 569 00:25:44.289 --> 00:25:44.690 First game. 570 00:25:44.690 --> 00:25:47.309 19 seconds we scored. Yes. I remember that game. But 571 00:25:47.329 --> 00:26:02.829 just quickly, so this game in New York, one other 572 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.069 United fan in the bar and then Rangers fans and 573 00:26:05.130 --> 00:26:06.849 we United won so I had a couple of beers 574 00:26:06.869 --> 00:26:08.569 with this guy and we had kind of mutual friends 575 00:26:09.509 --> 00:26:12.849 and he anyway he'd been given this Bob Sutherland book 576 00:26:12.890 --> 00:26:14.690 by his mum for his Christmas so bizarrely he knew 577 00:26:14.710 --> 00:26:16.289 about it and knew about me and I said well 578 00:26:16.309 --> 00:26:17.569 we're maybe going to try and do it for radio 579 00:26:17.589 --> 00:26:19.950 or TV but I don't know it'll only work if 580 00:26:19.970 --> 00:26:22.089 you because I've never done anything and it'll only work 581 00:26:22.130 --> 00:26:25.490 if I get a decent actor and really and he 582 00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:27.559 said well who would you what would your ideal choice 583 00:26:27.619 --> 00:26:29.440 be and I said well Brian Cox he said I 584 00:26:29.460 --> 00:26:33.230 know Brian And I was like, I thought this is ridiculous. 585 00:26:33.250 --> 00:26:35.549 But Brian did live in, you know, he lives in Brooklyn. 586 00:26:36.589 --> 00:26:38.190 So I kind of called this guy Smuff, gave him 587 00:26:38.210 --> 00:26:41.609 the book, and didn't hear anything. And then about three 588 00:26:41.630 --> 00:26:45.009 weeks later, Owen Bell, who was at BBC Scotland Comedy, 589 00:26:45.049 --> 00:26:46.450 called me up and said, I've just had the oddest 590 00:26:46.490 --> 00:26:48.950 phone call from Brian Cox's manager. He said, when do 591 00:26:48.970 --> 00:26:51.829 you want to make this podcast? And I was like, 592 00:26:51.849 --> 00:26:54.509 this is crazy. So he came and did it. And 593 00:26:54.529 --> 00:26:57.930 then Brian later told me that in his apartment in Brooklyn, 594 00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:00.720 his son Alan, who's also an actor, he's actually in 595 00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:03.799 The Gold, great guy, he was over visiting. And Brian 596 00:27:03.819 --> 00:27:06.440 had a big stack of scripts and books in his 597 00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:08.329 thing that he'd been sent and he was never going 598 00:27:08.349 --> 00:27:11.930 to get round to looking at. And Alan grabbed the 599 00:27:11.950 --> 00:27:15.210 Bob Servant thing, basically got the toilet, right? So then 600 00:27:15.230 --> 00:27:19.289 he was in the bathroom reading, and Brian heard him laughing, 601 00:27:20.250 --> 00:27:21.630 and he came out and said, what are you up 602 00:27:21.670 --> 00:27:23.710 to in there? And he said, oh, you should do this, 603 00:27:23.730 --> 00:27:26.480 this looks funny, and gave him it, and that's how Brian... 604 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:29.630 So it was the choice of his son's bathroom reading 605 00:27:29.650 --> 00:27:32.829 material basically it's probably where it belongs but so that 606 00:27:32.849 --> 00:27:33.329 was that. 607 00:27:33.190 --> 00:27:35.029 Was your first thing it went to screen went to. 608 00:27:34.990 --> 00:27:37.430 Tv yeah so that made a big thing and then 609 00:27:38.210 --> 00:27:41.450 and then a few years of you know trying and 610 00:27:41.509 --> 00:27:45.299 failing to get another short way in comedy but really 611 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:47.960 kind of wanting to do drama and then it was 612 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.420 uh it was kind of guilt that kind of that 613 00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:52.000 kind of made that that difference really. 614 00:27:52.259 --> 00:27:54.500 It's

a pinch yourself moment that in it really yeah 615 00:27:54.819 --> 00:27:58.349 you mentioned brian You mentioned Ricky Ross earlier on at 616 00:27:58.450 --> 00:28:00.490 Big United fans. You were going to the game with 617 00:28:00.529 --> 00:28:03.599 Ricky the night Brian was there. Would you ever think 618 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.640 of considering doing a football themed? 619 00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:09.559 I don't know. I mean, I think it's hard with 620 00:28:09.579 --> 00:28:12.130 football because it's like... I tried it. You tried it. 621 00:28:12.329 --> 00:28:15.589 I had Gary Lewis as my manager. 622 00:28:15.609 --> 00:28:16.170 Yeah, brilliant. 623 00:28:16.589 --> 00:28:17.829 He was brilliant. 624 00:28:17.849 --> 00:28:20.430 I've never watched it. Was that a fun experience though? 625 00:28:20.609 --> 00:28:23.869 I absolutely loved it. Even though it was, you know, 626 00:28:24.089 --> 00:28:27.289 we had all these people came along and script, so 627 00:28:27.450 --> 00:28:32.339 we'd done a pilot and it was 30 minutes. It 628 00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:36.440 was 30 minutes, like, being extras, all my pals, you know, 629 00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:40.400 and I would say Gary Lewis was the main manager 630 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:43.400 and the main person. But then the whole concept was, 631 00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:46.400 like the therapy room it was called, So it was 632 00:28:46.420 --> 00:28:50.579 like a video diary. So it would change every episode. 633 00:28:51.220 --> 00:28:53.039 You know, it would be one player, then it goes 634 00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:56.609 to another player, and you're getting to... Basically, you see 635 00:28:57.109 --> 00:29:00.250 what really happened. Because when we go to the television, 636 00:29:00.630 --> 00:29:03.339 as a manager and a player, we speak to the journalist. 637 00:29:04.180 --> 00:29:06.180 You say, well, what happened in the dressing room? Eh, manager, 638 00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:10.440 it was great. But then you actually, the camera goes in, 639 00:29:10.460 --> 00:29:12.950 it's like a fly on the wall. And you, you 640 00:29:13.029 --> 00:29:17.589 fucking useless bastard. It's the reality of what you see 641 00:29:17.630 --> 00:29:20.609 when you're watching the telly and what really happens behind, 642 00:29:21.130 --> 00:29:23.329 because everybody wants to know what the manager says. I 643 00:29:23.349 --> 00:29:27.529 know there's different TV, you know, sports channels. When I 644 00:29:27.549 --> 00:29:30.049 was managing Dundee United, they wanted to put the camera 645 00:29:30.069 --> 00:29:30.789 in the changing room. 646 00:29:31.069 --> 00:29:31.410 Did they? 647 00:29:31.589 --> 00:29:33.380 Without the sound, but then I was like. 648 00:29:33.380 --> 00:29:34.869 Not the club or the TV channel? 649 00:29:34.869 --> 00:29:35.730 No, the TV channel. 650 00:29:35.730 --> 00:29:38.450 They do it better now, don't they? 651 00:29:38.529 --> 00:29:40.150 Everything we do, we follow America. 652 00:29:40.490 --> 00:29:40.970 Right, yeah. 653 00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:44.440 You know, even doing the subs, we'll be talking about 654 00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:48.440 earlier on, the VAR and commercial breaks, hydration breaks, everything 655 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:55.519 we do in football and substitutions, it's just getting so American. Refcams. Refcams. 656 00:29:56.809 --> 00:29:59.039 How did you two handle halftime? How were you divvied up? 657 00:29:59.309 --> 00:30:00.190 Did you go in first? 658 00:30:00.210 --> 00:30:02.130 Good cop, bad cop? 659 00:30:02.579 --> 00:30:06.940 I don't really... Good cop, bad cop. I think sometimes 660 00:30:06.980 --> 00:30:10.980 if you rant and rave, it hits the target once. See, 661 00:30:11.019 --> 00:30:14.180 if you do it over and over, it doesn't become effective. 662 00:30:14.660 --> 00:30:17.299 If you lose it all the time, it's the same 663 00:30:17.380 --> 00:30:19.720 on your side of the park. If you're shouting and 664 00:30:19.779 --> 00:30:23.279 screaming at every decision, whether it just be a throw-in 665 00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:26.400 or it's a penalty... It's like the boy that cried wolf, 666 00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:29.960 because you're the same the whole time. But when you 667 00:30:30.299 --> 00:30:36.049 do react, it's people's like, oh, it must be something there. 668 00:30:36.140 --> 00:30:38.750 I think we were quite calm on the side. I 669 00:30:38.789 --> 00:30:41.809 got sent off a couple of times, one against Tommy Wright, 670 00:30:43.109 --> 00:30:45.670 when they were kicking me goldie. Me and him, we 671 00:30:46.250 --> 00:30:49.619 were coming together, and he's like, is that what you're doing? 672 00:30:49.630 --> 00:30:52.480 You're teaching your guys to kick young players? Brilliant, well done. 673 00:30:52.539 --> 00:30:55.799 He's like, you're fucking Brazil. I said, no, I'm trying 674 00:30:55.819 --> 00:30:57.640 to get them to play football the right way, trying 675 00:30:57.660 --> 00:31:01.079 to make them better. You're a stopper. I'm trying to 676 00:31:01.099 --> 00:31:04.559 stop them and kick them. And he was just, the 677 00:31:04.579 --> 00:31:06.079 two of us got sent off. He was like, you 678 00:31:06.099 --> 00:31:08.099 wee prick. And I was like, you fat bastard. And 679 00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:11.299 the two of us got sent off. And my dad, 680 00:31:12.039 --> 00:31:14.619 my dad's actually the side of the pitch in the 681 00:31:14.660 --> 00:31:17.549 boxes at Tanadise. My dad's like, you all right, son? 682 00:31:17.589 --> 00:31:21.450 He's coming down, he's going to fight Tommy Ride for me. Honest, honest. 683 00:31:22.130 --> 00:31:24.740 But then I said to Simon, you do the press 684 00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:28.700 after it. Because I'll end up saying something about it. 685 00:31:29.140 --> 00:31:32.069 And he went in and just kind of diffused it. 686 00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:35.180 And then Tommy's like, I've never been

so insulted in 687 00:31:35.220 --> 00:31:37.119 all my life. I was like, I can do a 688 00:31:37.140 --> 00:31:40.240 lot better than that. But it was just that wee 689 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:41.059 thing and that was the. 690 00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:42.359 Ah, quite right, yeah. 691 00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:43.680 You know, you're trying to protect your voice. 692 00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:44.720 They were so young, those lads. 693 00:31:44.859 --> 00:31:47.940 Yeah. And they were gifted, they were different. And you're, 694 00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:51.440 I think... in football week the easiest thing to do 695 00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:52.640 is stop. 696 00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:54.319 You see the wee boy we were talking about it 697 00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:56.859 last night Fleetwood played Arsenal last night and the wee 698 00:31:56.900 --> 00:32:00.079 boy Max Dowman gets sent off now he has a 699 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.750 little lash out after it probably shouldn't do it it's 700 00:32:02.789 --> 00:32:06.210 not much but the potential it's a leg breaking tackle 701 00:32:06.349 --> 00:32:08.500 you know the guy tries to take him out he's 15, 702 00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:12.170 16 so there's a balance there but you know the 703 00:32:12.190 --> 00:32:13.289 wee guy ends up getting sent. 704 00:32:13.210 --> 00:32:16.450 Off that's bizarre it was like he's now the manager 705 00:32:16.490 --> 00:32:19.579 at Dundee United So when we were playing St Mirrage. 706 00:32:19.940 --> 00:32:21.900 Yeah, I remember that. It was a challenge on... Stuart Armstrong. 707 00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:26.740 Stuart Armstrong. So, like, at the time, right, I actually 708 00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:29.859 changed the start and 11 for the first... I said, see, 709 00:32:29.900 --> 00:32:31.420 for the first 10 minutes, because I knew he would 710 00:32:31.460 --> 00:32:33.680 do it to Goldie. I knew he would try and 711 00:32:33.700 --> 00:32:36.799 intimidate or kick me, Goldie, Jim Goodwin. So I put 712 00:32:36.819 --> 00:32:38.900 Goldie in the right to start with, and I put 713 00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:41.400 Stuart in the middle and GMS on the left, and 714 00:32:41.529 --> 00:32:44.829 obviously Nads up front. And I said, just for 10 minutes, 715 00:32:44.890 --> 00:32:47.490 till the game settles, I says, then you'll go back 716 00:32:47.509 --> 00:32:50.740 to You know, GMS on the right, Goldie in the 717 00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:54.549 middle and Stewart on the left. And what happens? Jim Goodwin, boof, 718 00:32:54.970 --> 00:32:58.650 elbows Stewart and he breaks his cheekbone. Red card and 719 00:32:58.690 --> 00:33:01.549 I'm driving back to Edinburgh after the game and Chick 720 00:33:01.589 --> 00:33:03.970 Young's on the radio, they're opening all mics, the BBC. 721 00:33:05.150 --> 00:33:09.930 Jackie McNamara targeted Jim Goodwin today. I was like, fuck. 722 00:33:09.950 --> 00:33:11.329 So I phoned them while they were on the show 723 00:33:11.349 --> 00:33:13.190 and I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? 724 00:33:13.900 --> 00:33:15.829 I said, you're making out to be the victim, you 725 00:33:15.849 --> 00:33:16.640 could have put. 726 00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:18.150 The boy's cheekbone. I said, I actually moved, the young 727 00:33:18.170 --> 00:33:21.710 kid was meant to start there, I moved him there 728 00:33:21.769 --> 00:33:24.049 to start the game. I said, you're making him out 729 00:33:33.809 --> 00:33:36.069 And he came back on the radio check and said, 730 00:33:36.089 --> 00:33:39.710 I've just spoke to Jack, he didn't target Jim Goodwin. 731 00:33:41.490 --> 00:33:45.180 For that team, the players you had there are exciting, 732 00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:46.140 isn't it, that crop? 733 00:33:46.740 --> 00:33:47.680 It's a good. 734 00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:50.980 Team for a spell, but inevitably you can't keep them. 735 00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:54.680 It's hard to get that level. When you were there, 736 00:33:54.700 --> 00:33:57.440 who was so... So we came in in the January. 737 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:03.140 We came in in January. My first game was the Rangers. 738 00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:08.500 And then Johnny Russell and Don Dele went to the Rangers. 739 00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:12.389 Johnny Russell went to Derby. Obviously with the debt, the 740 00:34:12.429 --> 00:34:15.730 bank took that. And Barry Douglas went to Poland. 741 00:34:15.750 --> 00:34:17.530 That's right. For decent money as well. 742 00:34:17.750 --> 00:34:23.610 So we brought in Robertson. Nadir was in trial. Shifty 743 00:34:23.630 --> 00:34:25.860 was in trial. All the wee boys were coming in. 744 00:34:26.579 --> 00:34:28.440 Then we brought the other ones through, but we had 745 00:34:28.460 --> 00:34:30.900 to slice it all down with the budget, getting everything 746 00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:33.519 getting cut, which is why Peter Houston resigned, because he 747 00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:35.579 couldn't live with the budgets. The kids weren't ready, and 748 00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:38.300 they weren't ready. So we had to live with that 749 00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:41.239 and then grow it. But just as you're getting somewhere, 750 00:34:41.260 --> 00:34:44.190 that first six months with Robertson, we thought he was 751 00:34:44.230 --> 00:34:46.969 going in desperate to try and keep him in the January, 752 00:34:47.469 --> 00:34:49.570 because everybody was coming up to watch him, everyone would 753 00:34:49.590 --> 00:34:51.909 come up to buy him. But we did well to 754 00:34:51.929 --> 00:34:54.610 keep him for the season. And then he went, obviously, 755 00:34:54.679 --> 00:34:57.300 to Hull at the end of that season. Then Goldie went. 756 00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:00.699 So they too went. Spain. 757 00:35:00.739 --> 00:35:04.679 It was Portugal, wasn't it? And then the following year, 758 00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:08.800 it was, sorry, following January. So you're building another team. 759 00:35:08.820 -->

00:35:10.929 So that was three teams in two and a half years. 760 00:35:10.949 --> 00:35:12.869 Take rid of a lot of debt. 761 00:35:13.510 --> 00:35:16.739 Yeah, difficult. It's a selling club, but it's, it's almost 762 00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:18.579 your victim of your own success in terms of those 763 00:35:18.619 --> 00:35:20.940 players because it's so unusual to sell that many in 764 00:35:20.980 --> 00:35:23.280 such a short period it was five and twelve was 765 00:35:23.300 --> 00:35:25.409 it Stephen Thompson at that point was it yeah and 766 00:35:25.429 --> 00:35:27.809 he was just trying to pay down. 767 00:35:27.050 --> 00:35:30.750 But then it became the only bit of regret I've 768 00:35:30.769 --> 00:35:33.969 got personally is not leaving when my contract broke I 769 00:35:33.989 --> 00:35:37.179 should have just resigned and walked out but part of 770 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.360 me was because I thought I could do it again 771 00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:43.019 and I didn't obviously my staff you're looking after your 772 00:35:43.059 --> 00:35:45.840 staff and everything else I thought Because I'd done, that 773 00:35:45.860 --> 00:35:48.210 was my 13, two years, two and a half years. 774 00:35:48.230 --> 00:35:50.829 And I thought, I can do it again. It's going 775 00:35:50.849 --> 00:35:53.150 to take time. You know, like the ones I was 776 00:35:53.170 --> 00:35:55.650 bringing in, because you couldn't afford to buy it, so 777 00:35:55.670 --> 00:35:56.489 you've got to grow it. 778 00:35:56.769 --> 00:35:56.989 Yeah. 779 00:35:57.210 --> 00:35:58.869 And that was my point with Stephen. I was like, 780 00:35:59.510 --> 00:36:01.530 this is when I brought Andy Robertson in a year ago. 781 00:36:02.429 --> 00:36:04.920 We could afford him. 12 months on, we can't. 782 00:36:05.610 --> 00:36:08.619 Hi guys, as you probably well know by now, we 783 00:36:08.659 --> 00:36:13.800 have signed up for the London Marathon next April and 784 00:36:13.820 --> 00:36:17.139 we have some fantastic people supporting us, groups supporting us, 785 00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:19.420 we're doing it for a fantastic cause, or two causes, 786 00:36:19.460 --> 00:36:20.059 who are we doing it for? 787 00:36:20.260 --> 00:36:24.460 We're doing it for Headway UK and the Concilium Sports Foundation. 788 00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:28.679 Yep, so we're going to have some updated videos of 789 00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:32.000 our progress and our training and everything else it takes 790 00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:35.130 to get us over the line. He's emphasised that time 791 00:36:35.150 --> 00:36:35.809 doesn't matter. 792 00:36:35.829 --> 00:36:38.889 I probably agree. As long as we complete it. 793 00:36:39.070 --> 00:36:44.650 There'll be a link in the bio for any charity donations. 794 00:36:44.969 --> 00:36:46.389 We're going to be raising as much money as we 795 00:36:46.429 --> 00:36:49.539 can over the next period of time. Our training starts 796 00:36:49.659 --> 00:36:53.619 very soon. And yeah, look forward to some updates on here. 797 00:36:53.860 --> 00:36:54.639 Hopefully no injuries. 798 00:36:55.219 --> 00:36:57.480 Right, because he went for £ 3 million. Yeah, yeah. And 799 00:36:57.559 --> 00:36:58.960 that's what you've got to do. You've got to teach 800 00:36:59.019 --> 00:37:01.800 and grow. Because we can't back... That's why the club 801 00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:04.960 was in... the position it was in before because they've 802 00:37:04.980 --> 00:37:06.130 overspent and overdone it. 803 00:37:06.219 --> 00:37:07.590 Well, we bought a lot of players that were just 804 00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:09.690 towards the end of their careers and spent a lot 805 00:37:09.710 --> 00:37:10.630 of money on them. 806 00:37:11.010 --> 00:37:12.869 The cup final never helped things. 807 00:37:13.030 --> 00:37:16.610 St Johnson. St Johnson. One game can change everything. One game. 808 00:37:16.630 --> 00:37:17.929 They were our bogey team that year. 809 00:37:17.949 --> 00:37:18.610 We beat them, I think. 810 00:37:18.650 --> 00:37:20.230 We beat them in the first game of the season. 811 00:37:20.369 --> 00:37:22.010 And we weren't that great. We couldn't beat them again. 812 00:37:22.090 --> 00:37:24.730 They were our bogey team. When you look back at 813 00:37:24.750 --> 00:37:29.289 that final, the four or five superstars never really. 814 00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:32.559 Yeah, it was a strange game that. It didn't really 815 00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:33.079 get going. 816 00:37:33.139 --> 00:37:34.219 Hit the underside of the bar. 817 00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:36.219 That's right. It was Dow. 818 00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:42.469 Who hit the inside of the post. But they were 819 00:37:42.530 --> 00:37:45.849 the better team of the day. But without, you know, 820 00:37:45.869 --> 00:37:48.050 the first goal comes from the corner just at half-time. 821 00:37:48.230 --> 00:37:50.750 Rado comes out and misses it and he's got the 822 00:37:50.769 --> 00:37:52.349 head at the back post and then they get the 823 00:37:52.369 --> 00:37:56.059 breakaway which kills the game. When we were playing them, 824 00:37:56.099 --> 00:37:58.929 you really had to get the first goal to make 825 00:37:58.949 --> 00:38:01.730 them come out because there were a lot of experienced 826 00:38:01.769 --> 00:38:03.809 players that was a big day. 827 00:38:04.469 --> 00:38:07.980 The Celtic semi-final that was a good Celtic team isn't it? 828 00:38:08.389 --> 00:38:11.610 It was but again when you go back to it 829 00:38:11.650 --> 00:38:13.860 when Dillow got sent off but he actually. 830 00:38:13.579 --> 00:38:15.559 He was off for ages getting his do you know 831 00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:18.019 I remember screaming probably at you too. 832 00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:20.539 What's going on? I still remember that he was off 833 00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:22.199 He was away for about 10 minutes or something and 834 00:38:22.219 --> 00:38:28.679 then he came

back off Because he had stitches in 835 00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:29.139 his shin. 836 00:38:29.179 --> 00:38:29.760 That's right. 837 00:38:30.070 --> 00:38:31.869 And then he comes in and he gets a red card. 838 00:38:31.889 --> 00:38:33.230 That's exactly what happened. 839 00:38:33.250 --> 00:38:35.889 Because I kept turning around the bench for the technical 840 00:38:35.929 --> 00:38:39.550 area because you're so far away. I went, fuck is he? 841 00:38:39.630 --> 00:38:41.070 I remember you doing that because I was in the, 842 00:38:41.110 --> 00:38:42.800 for some reason I was in the main stand bit down, 843 00:38:42.909 --> 00:38:44.860 I was just behind and I still remember going, this 844 00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:46.659 is not mine. Because we're actually, there's nothing in the game. 845 00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:48.440 And then he brought it back on and within a 846 00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:50.579 minute he's back down. I mean the guy must have 847 00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:53.059 been putting away his stitches as he came back in 848 00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:55.099 at the chain. I don't know. But that was, what 849 00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:56.409 was the semi we had with Celtic? 850 00:38:56.469 --> 00:38:56.809 It was 4-3. 851 00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:01.800 That was the first season. That was an incredible game. 852 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:05.170 That was that lovely breakaway goal with Gold and Castiel 853 00:39:05.210 --> 00:39:08.210 and they just kept giving it to each other. I 854 00:39:08.230 --> 00:39:10.289 might watch that in New York actually. 855 00:39:10.610 --> 00:39:14.250 Who's your favourite United team then? 856 00:39:14.969 --> 00:39:18.750 Well, the 94 Cup final for me was a huge 857 00:39:18.809 --> 00:39:22.030 focus because we hadn't won the Cup before then. It 858 00:39:22.050 --> 00:39:25.269 was our seventh. I'd been to a number of the 859 00:39:25.329 --> 00:39:28.309 ones that were so miserable before. a really tough one 860 00:39:28.349 --> 00:39:30.510 was Motherwell 91 do you remember that? I was there 861 00:39:30.530 --> 00:39:35.099 you were there and Motherwell Phil scored. 862 00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:37.679 Phil scored Darren Jackson scored went on to be my 863 00:39:37.699 --> 00:39:41.480 team mates Stevie Kirk Stevie Kirk but with a Motherwell 864 00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:44.840 supporting friend who took me I was just a kid, 865 00:39:44.860 --> 00:39:46.960 it was a year before I signed for Celtic it 866 00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.579 was a hell of a final obviously not for you guys. 867 00:39:50.380 --> 00:39:52.380 I went with my uncle Jimmy and I just couldn't 868 00:39:52.420 --> 00:39:54.900 believe it, it was swinging end to end 4-3, did 869 00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:59.159 it finish 4-3? Yeah after extra time so that was 870 00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:05.250 heartbreaking and then 94 you're like, strangers everything about that 871 00:40:05.289 --> 00:40:06.949 game was so mad the fact it was even goal 872 00:40:07.250 --> 00:40:09.889 actually we Jim had gone after all those years he 873 00:40:09.909 --> 00:40:14.619 had this kind of borderline lunatic, who was just like 874 00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:17.590 night and day. David Bowman always says it was from 875 00:40:17.610 --> 00:40:20.030 McLean to Golatch was going like cold hits to Bucklands. 876 00:40:20.469 --> 00:40:22.489 Because it was like Golatch was just taking for walks 877 00:40:22.530 --> 00:40:25.090 in Camberdown Park and stuff, you know, and tell them 878 00:40:25.110 --> 00:40:29.539 to smell the flowers. And then we went through there. 879 00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:32.420 So you went through, you know, with very little hope, 880 00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:35.369 you know, hope rather than expectations. I remember going to 881 00:40:35.389 --> 00:40:37.530 the post office bar on the ferry, but you maybe know, 882 00:40:37.550 --> 00:40:39.250 like at eight in the morning and you knocked on 883 00:40:39.269 --> 00:40:41.030 the back door and you'd get a pint and the bus, 884 00:40:41.210 --> 00:40:45.969 bus three and 16 there would have been. And we 885 00:40:45.989 --> 00:40:49.250 just played so well. I watched the extended highlights of 886 00:40:49.269 --> 00:40:51.369 that recently and I was like, we're just brilliant. And 887 00:40:51.389 --> 00:40:55.110 that Rangers, they were up for double treble. They were 888 00:40:55.130 --> 00:40:58.449 up for it. And their team is unbelievable. And I 889 00:40:58.809 --> 00:41:00.730 think by the end of the game, I think they 890 00:41:00.750 --> 00:41:06.030 had up front... from memory, McCoy, Haley, Duncan Ferguson, and Mikhailochenko, 891 00:41:06.269 --> 00:41:09.110 you know, all just, they banged the floor up, and 892 00:41:09.329 --> 00:41:13.570 it was, and we just, just, just so composed, and confident, 893 00:41:13.610 --> 00:41:16.969 knocked it about, like, if you watch those highlights, and that, 894 00:41:17.090 --> 00:41:21.030 and also, Craig Brewster's scoring, as a childhood, childhood United fan, 895 00:41:21.829 --> 00:41:26.159 so that was a, the Barcelona game, that game, stand out, 896 00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:28.469 you know, a lot for me, you know, in terms 897 00:41:28.510 --> 00:41:31.889 of just, brilliant, but then you have these, There was 898 00:41:31.909 --> 00:41:33.670 other games like when we were in the playoffs against 899 00:41:33.710 --> 00:41:35.780 Partick Thistle. Don't know if either of you, you wouldn't 900 00:41:35.820 --> 00:41:37.820 have been involved in that in any way, but it was, 901 00:41:38.179 --> 00:41:41.280 Dunfermline won the league. So we went down, Billy Kirkwood 902 00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:45.260 was the manager. Big Leash took Dunfermline up. and do 903 00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:48.000 this aeroplane stuff and win the pitch and then we 904 00:41:48.019 --> 00:41:49.760 got because you weren't doing film you were. 905 00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:51.500 Playing were you not playing that game

was that the 906 00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:54.699 game that we beat you that was what got you 907 00:41:54.739 --> 00:41:56.619 up we staved the elevation at Tanadar. 908 00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:58.260 That was the aeroplane so you staved the elevation and 909 00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:00.260 that was the aeroplane and then. 910 00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:03.099 I set Gary Mason up in big leash. 911 00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:06.860 That's right for the aeroplane celebrations and I think he 912 00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:08.980 did a little callback of it anyway so they won 913 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:11.010 the league when we were in the first division so 914 00:42:11.610 --> 00:42:15.449 we were in the playoff with Thistle Won 1-0 through there. 915 00:42:16.909 --> 00:42:21.559 Tannis went down 1-0. Ian Cameron, was it, the full-back? Yeah, 916 00:42:22.099 --> 00:42:25.440 I think so. Anyway, Thistle went 1-0 up. And that was, 917 00:42:25.460 --> 00:42:34.409 you know... And then... Brian Welsh... Sorry, we drew it 918 00:42:34.429 --> 00:42:36.550 for a 1-0. Christian Daly scored. So when they went 919 00:42:36.570 --> 00:42:39.309 1-0 up at Tannis, they were winning. Deep, deep in 920 00:42:39.349 --> 00:42:43.429 injury time. Tannis packed... And that's like, God, if we 921 00:42:43.449 --> 00:42:45.030 don't go up here, we're in real trouble. That was 922 00:42:45.050 --> 00:42:46.769 the stage where a lot of clubs were hitting proper 923 00:42:46.829 --> 00:42:51.409 financial problems. And Andy McLaren kind of gets the ball 924 00:42:51.429 --> 00:42:53.909 in front of the executive boxers on that right wing. 925 00:42:54.389 --> 00:42:57.030 And only Andy McLaren would have done it. He could 926 00:42:57.070 --> 00:42:59.920 have gone back to the full-back, he was wide open, 927 00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:03.980 and he's just spun the full-back, hit the thing, chipped 928 00:43:04.019 --> 00:43:07.829 over Brian Welsh... Big centre half, stayed forward, got on 929 00:43:07.869 --> 00:43:10.530 a diving header and that celebration I think was probably 930 00:43:10.550 --> 00:43:12.420 the best ever at Tannan. It's just the relief of 931 00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:15.320 it and then Owen Coyle got the winner in extra time. 932 00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:18.460 So I think those three games, Barcelona, 94 Cup final 933 00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:20.300 and beating Parted this on the play-off to kind of 934 00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:22.539 save ourselves a bit and get back up. 935 00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:25.920 It's funny how you remember things. As you're talking about celebrations, 936 00:43:25.940 --> 00:43:29.239 remember to make top six that first season? 937 00:43:30.340 --> 00:43:34.940 United against Aberdeen yes yeah. 938 00:43:33.849 --> 00:43:36.090 Rory Bolden it was the only time I seen Stephen 939 00:43:36.130 --> 00:43:40.269 Thompson smile Rory Bolden that's right Rory Bolden scores and 940 00:43:41.130 --> 00:43:42.650 he cuddles me in the tunnel. 941 00:43:42.429 --> 00:43:45.570 Because it was a huge financial you get the money 942 00:43:45.610 --> 00:43:49.130 right away if you in the bottom six you don't 943 00:43:49.170 --> 00:43:51.329 get to the end of the season then the club. 944 00:43:51.179 --> 00:43:54.059 Was in trouble financially at that point. 945 00:43:53.900 --> 00:43:57.000 When we were there yeah and that was the only 946 00:43:57.019 --> 00:43:58.940 time it was the only time we had any emotion 947 00:43:58.980 --> 00:44:01.820 from him But it was relief, you know. 948 00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:04.639 Those young lads you had, who do you think was 949 00:44:04.659 --> 00:44:07.219 the most exciting day in, day out at training? 950 00:44:08.099 --> 00:44:11.929 I would think, I mean, technically, I think wee Goldie. 951 00:44:12.250 --> 00:44:17.349 I loved watching him because he was three steps ahead. 952 00:44:17.369 --> 00:44:20.610 I think it was, for me, I was frustrated a 953 00:44:20.630 --> 00:44:23.239 wee bit with him because sometimes you want to shake him. 954 00:44:23.900 --> 00:44:24.519 You know, he was just. 955 00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:29.079 Very laid back and if you look at his career 956 00:44:29.099 --> 00:44:34.840 he's had a good career for what he had he 957 00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:38.050 was three moves ahead on the pitch it's tough you 958 00:44:38.070 --> 00:44:42.429 can't teach it's why you try to build a team 959 00:44:42.469 --> 00:44:44.570 around him put him in the 10 and give him 960 00:44:44.610 --> 00:44:49.769 that freedom the game you're talking about at Hampden the 961 00:44:49.809 --> 00:44:53.739 semi-final with Mackay Steven. So we were in the dressing 962 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:56.239 room at half time and they had the goal up 963 00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:58.699 on the telly. And I'm saying to him there, cause 964 00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:02.179 it was Effie Ambrose who was playing centre half for Celtic. 965 00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:03.840 And I said to him, I said, I thought you 966 00:45:03.860 --> 00:45:07.059 were going to just go and shoot yourself. Eh, me man. 967 00:45:07.179 --> 00:45:09.659 He went, he said, I seen Ambrose take a step there. 968 00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:12.050 So I knew if I put it there, he couldn't 969 00:45:12.090 --> 00:45:14.750 get there. And that's, I went, aye, good, well done. 970 00:45:14.769 --> 00:45:17.849 See what I mean? But that was his wee football, 971 00:45:17.989 --> 00:45:21.019 you know, stuff you, they see things and they go 972 00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:25.550 in that split second. But he'd wait a pass, his 973 00:45:25.570 --> 00:45:27.289 decision making for a young kid was. 974 00:45:27.710 --> 00:45:30.429 And Robertson obviously with the desire and hunger. 975 00:45:31.510 --> 00:45:33.769 For us, I'd rather... Every day. Right. 976 00:45:34.010 --> 00:45:36.469 Just every day. You knew he was going to... I 977 00:45:36.489 --> 00:45:39.869 didn't quite anticipate the levels he'd get to in

European 978 00:45:40.710 --> 00:45:41.489 Champions League winner. 979 00:45:41.690 --> 00:45:41.809 Yeah. 980 00:45:42.110 --> 00:45:44.219 But you knew he was going to work hard. 981 00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:46.019 Reminds me a bit of Christian Daly, you know, just 982 00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:49.420 the work, you know, an athlete, basically. 983 00:45:49.619 --> 00:45:51.800 Max and I is different than they've got, you know, 984 00:45:51.860 --> 00:45:55.449 and just be that determination, you know, maybe that was 985 00:45:56.250 --> 00:45:58.170 the kind of change for him was getting released from 986 00:45:58.210 --> 00:46:01.010 Celtic to just go, I'm going to prove you wrong. 987 00:46:01.409 --> 00:46:03.409 You know, you see it with so many kids, that's 988 00:46:03.429 --> 00:46:05.929 what I'd say to all the lads that have been 989 00:46:05.969 --> 00:46:09.280 released or there, and that's why in management, that's what 990 00:46:09.300 --> 00:46:13.590 I went after, because they were hungry. So all the 991 00:46:13.630 --> 00:46:16.989 kids that were released from other worlds, from Hearts, from Hibs, 992 00:46:17.780 --> 00:46:20.139 you're sort of giving them that second chance to go, right, 993 00:46:20.900 --> 00:46:22.860 here's your opportunity, go and prove them wrong. 994 00:46:23.260 --> 00:46:25.119 And they know it's their last chance as well, it 995 00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:27.139 makes a big difference. I think what's interesting with those 996 00:46:27.179 --> 00:46:30.559 players as well, that half dozen or so, almost all 997 00:46:30.579 --> 00:46:33.519 of them went on and achieved. You know, so many 998 00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:35.840 of the times, teams like United, they'll go to Celtic 999 00:46:35.900 --> 00:46:37.619 or Rangers and it's the end of them, really. Yeah. 1000 00:46:38.150 --> 00:46:42.000 I think the biggest one that didn't for me was 1001 00:46:42.199 --> 00:46:43.320 Nads Nadir. 1002 00:46:43.340 --> 00:46:44.340 No, that's true, yeah. 1003 00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:46.340 So Nads, if you look at Nads' career, it was 1004 00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:49.130 only his best spell was that year with us. 1005 00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:50.380 Yeah, definitely. 1006 00:46:50.380 --> 00:46:54.059 23 goals. But he was a maverick for us. You know, 1007 00:46:54.619 --> 00:46:56.900 he got treated differently. He got away with a lot. 1008 00:46:57.159 --> 00:46:57.920 He needed managed. 1009 00:46:57.940 --> 00:46:59.019 He needed managed. 1010 00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:01.440 I mean, was he light off the pitch? 1011 00:47:01.460 --> 00:47:01.820 Good lad. 1012 00:47:02.019 --> 00:47:02.889 Yeah. 1013 00:47:03.139 --> 00:47:04.110 Respectful. 1014 00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:05.869 Great lad. Just lost the plot. 1015 00:47:05.889 --> 00:47:06.730 But in the first. 1016 00:47:06.769 --> 00:47:09.300 He'd see red on the... It was hard to manage, 1017 00:47:09.380 --> 00:47:10.260 but it was worth it. 1018 00:47:10.429 --> 00:47:11.969

If you know what I mean. And we got, what, 1019 00:47:11.969 --> 00:47:14.230 20 plus goals at him? 1020 00:47:14.230 --> 00:47:14.369 23. 1021 00:47:14.369 --> 00:47:16.289 I actually thought he'd be a big success at Celtic, 1022 00:47:16.329 --> 00:47:19.250 but went there and just kind of got lost in 1023 00:47:19.269 --> 00:47:20.469 the size of the place a wee bit. 1024 00:47:20.889 --> 00:47:25.039 When he first signed pre-season, he had a thing in 1025 00:47:25.059 --> 00:47:28.119 the training ground with Andy Robertson. The two of them 1026 00:47:28.139 --> 00:47:31.639 were squaring up to fight, fighting with each other. And 1027 00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:35.300 I sent him in. I sent him off in training. 1028 00:47:35.860 --> 00:47:37.730 And then they carried on the training and I walked 1029 00:47:37.809 --> 00:47:41.230 in to the pavilion at St Andrews and he's sitting 1030 00:47:41.250 --> 00:47:42.869 there like that in the changing room and I says 1031 00:47:42.889 --> 00:47:48.050 right into my office and I was like what the 1032 00:47:48.190 --> 00:47:50.349 fuck are you doing and he's sitting in my office 1033 00:47:50.929 --> 00:47:53.090 and he's put his head down but I knew he 1034 00:47:53.130 --> 00:47:55.250 thought I was just going to come in from where 1035 00:47:55.269 --> 00:47:58.349 maybe he'd been before so I started laughing I went 1036 00:47:58.369 --> 00:48:01.130 what are you doing and he looked at me and 1037 00:48:01.190 --> 00:48:04.170 he went oh what am I like you know sorry 1038 00:48:04.190 --> 00:48:06.889 Gaffer and he went round to see Andy and apologised 1039 00:48:06.949 --> 00:48:10.599 but he'd just go to red so quickly, you know, 1040 00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:15.090 but then he realised it's like, you know, just calm down, 1041 00:48:15.690 --> 00:48:19.090 it's not worth fighting over your team mate. 1042 00:48:19.289 --> 00:48:22.230 I remember he used to just, at kick-offs, just dribble. 1043 00:48:22.250 --> 00:48:24.829 I remember he'd just go straight off. Down that slope. 1044 00:48:24.889 --> 00:48:25.639 He was good for us. 1045 00:48:25.690 --> 00:48:27.690 He was a really good boy, deep down, although he 1046 00:48:27.710 --> 00:48:37.829 had a lot of anger issues, shall we say, but 1047 00:48:38.010 --> 00:48:42.590 he was, even the, his last game for us, the derby, 1048 00:48:42.659 --> 00:48:48.059 the 3-0 one at Tenedyce against Dundee. So, it's the 1049 00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:53.260 one where he's came out after the game and he's, 1050 00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:57.230 that gaffer, they're saying I bit their player. I said, well, 1051 00:48:57.250 --> 00:49:00.070 did you? He went, no, no, I swear, I never, 1052 00:49:00.670 --> 00:49:02.730 I said, well, what you worried about then? He said, no, honestly, 1053 00:49:02.769 --> 00:49:04.710 I never bit him. So I went out to do 1054 00:49:04.730 --> 00:49:09.269 the press after the game And that's like, Nad's just 1055 00:49:09.309 --> 00:49:13.099 not done anything. My player's innocent. And I get a 1056 00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.360 call later on, Nad's phone's me at night. I might 1057 00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:18.130 have had a wee chunk of him. It's like. 1058 00:49:18.699 --> 00:49:19.719 you're a. 1059 00:49:19.739 --> 00:49:23.190 Fucking bastard I'm defending you you know what I mean 1060 00:49:23.269 --> 00:49:26.360 I said Gaffer I'm really sorry he's like right into 1061 00:49:26.380 --> 00:49:28.519 me and he caught me and then he's like I 1062 00:49:28.659 --> 00:49:34.349 had a wee nibble so obviously transpired the forensic stuff 1063 00:49:34.409 --> 00:49:37.090 on with the teeth marks and pushing it I think 1064 00:49:37.130 --> 00:49:39.389 he got and then we obviously sold him to Celtic 1065 00:49:39.409 --> 00:49:43.250 then because Stephen Thompson's like he'll not play he's suspended 1066 00:49:43.269 --> 00:49:45.090 we'll not get all the money and da da da 1067 00:49:45.110 --> 00:49:48.539 da and he got 8 games banned for Celtic yeah. 1068 00:49:48.619 --> 00:49:51.980 I remember that it's the lunatic great player though brilliant 1069 00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:54.420 guy just exciting players he had then Well. 1070 00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:55.940 Neil, you've been a great guest. I want to touch 1071 00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:58.559 on one thing before we wrap it up. 1072 00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:01.699 The soundtrack for Legends. Yeah. Your choice. 1073 00:50:01.820 --> 00:50:05.260 Yeah, yeah. And others, you know. 1074 00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:08.920 Obviously that timeline, but any of your favourites in there? 1075 00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:11.119 What a great period of music. But no, it's a 1076 00:50:11.159 --> 00:50:15.619 conversation with directors and producers and story producers and everything else. 1077 00:50:16.659 --> 00:50:19.860 I tend to make a playlist up when I'm writing. 1078 00:50:21.590 --> 00:50:23.469 and some of them will make sometimes when I write 1079 00:50:23.510 --> 00:50:26.050 the script I think of a song then sometimes you 1080 00:50:26.110 --> 00:50:28.130 just wait and see what happens in the edit but 1081 00:50:28.710 --> 00:50:31.090 yeah great period for music The Gold as well was 1082 00:50:31.110 --> 00:50:32.909 good but getting into the 90s and then the second 1083 00:50:32.929 --> 00:50:35.940 series of Legends moving a bit more into the 90s 1084 00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:39.039 that's when it gets even more exciting for me Can 1085 00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:42.800 you walk on parts going for us? Leave me your 1086 00:50:42.820 --> 00:50:45.159 details Before. 1087 00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:47.969 We let you go we normally get a recommendation off 1088 00:50:48.010 --> 00:50:51.300 our previous guest who was George Bowie and it's an 1089 00:50:51.409 --> 00:50:54.329 album a film and a song and funnily enough the 1090 00:50:54.369 --> 00:50:57.630 song features on legends set you free in. 1091 00:50:57.550 --> 00:50:59.690 Trance oh

really yeah that was what he picked that's 1092 00:50:59.710 --> 00:51:01.929 how he picks this song is it good song do 1093 00:51:01.949 --> 00:51:05.230 you know it's funny with that song so that uh 1094 00:51:05.369 --> 00:51:07.489 i love that exactly it takes you back to probably 1095 00:51:07.510 --> 00:51:10.070 some nightclub clubs yeah yeah so for me the mardi 1096 00:51:10.090 --> 00:51:12.849 gras and dundee yeah been in it yeah yeah and 1097 00:51:12.989 --> 00:51:18.230 um yeah and uh uh just really liked it anyway 1098 00:51:18.510 --> 00:51:21.130 it was it i think they we still open legends 1099 00:51:21.170 --> 00:51:23.710 see this one as 91 and i think the song 1100 00:51:23.809 --> 00:51:25.929 was 93 or something came out and i'm going to 1101 00:51:25.989 --> 00:51:29.489 use it and it has i'll get i'll get messages 1102 00:51:29.530 --> 00:51:31.889 about this because it's amazing what people message about they 1103 00:51:31.909 --> 00:51:34.250 get angry about things being out of time or whatever 1104 00:51:35.230 --> 00:51:39.139 anyway sure enough came out great reception to legends and 1105 00:51:39.219 --> 00:51:42.820 i probably get contacted by maybe a dozen people you 1106 00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:46.559 know strangers oh, that song didn't come out tonight. Three-week player, 1107 00:51:46.599 --> 00:51:48.219 and I'm really angry about it. 1108 00:51:48.440 --> 00:51:49.199 You got the years wrong. 1109 00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:51.500 But what I always reply to these people, I always say, yeah, 1110 00:51:52.139 --> 00:51:54.920 what it is, is the guy that had the party 1111 00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:58.380 in the scene, his dad's a janny at a sound studio, 1112 00:51:58.460 --> 00:52:01.449 and he got a bootleg copy. I send this long story, 1113 00:52:01.550 --> 00:52:03.780 and they're obviously like, take it at best, but I'm 1114 00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:06.469 so serious about the song. It's like I've given this 1115 00:52:06.510 --> 00:52:11.730 guy a whole backstory. So anyway, that just fitted brilliantly. 1116 00:52:11.750 --> 00:52:12.389 It's a good tactic. 1117 00:52:12.510 --> 00:52:12.690 Yeah. 1118 00:52:13.650 --> 00:52:17.460 So that's his song. Film is Private Parts with Howard Stern. 1119 00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:19.519 Right, okay, yeah, yeah. Have you seen it? Yeah, biopic 1120 00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:20.179 of Howard Stern, yeah. 1121 00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:22.699 And his album was Kev and Perry Go Larch, the 1122 00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:25.059 soundtrack for that, which I stuck on in the car 1123 00:52:25.099 --> 00:52:25.760 after he'd woken up. 1124 00:52:25.780 --> 00:52:26.739 It was the 90s as well. 1125 00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:29.170 With some good tunes on. So we need a film 1126 00:52:29.250 --> 00:52:32.590 off you, a song and an album for our next guest. 1127 00:52:32.769 --> 00:52:35.510 Well, film, I think film I'll go Trainspotting, a very 1128 00:52:35.590 --> 00:52:39.050 obvious choice, but

Trainspotting for me and Irvine in general, 1129 00:52:39.150 --> 00:52:42.179 Irvine's work, you know, like growing up in Dundee, it's like, 1130 00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:44.360 it was just that voice of it and I read 1131 00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:46.800 Trainspotting when I was very young and it was like 1132 00:52:46.820 --> 00:52:49.019 this is this is mad and the film just such 1133 00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:52.199 confidence and humour you know that's the big thing got 1134 00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:54.900 humour within it you can have one scene where there's 1135 00:52:54.940 --> 00:52:58.079 a baby dying as a result of neglect and the 1136 00:52:58.099 --> 00:53:00.559 next scene is darkly humorous and getting that mix right 1137 00:53:00.820 --> 00:53:04.639 so hard so John Hodge writing Danny Boyle and Irvine 1138 00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:06.619 you know masterpiece. 1139 00:53:06.099 --> 00:53:10.789 I think for me Trainspotting good one a song and 1140 00:53:11.690 --> 00:53:14.940 an album album I'll say Blonde on Blonde Bob Dylan 1141 00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:17.559 so because I love that. 1142 00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:20.380 Yeah my dad my influence from my dad oh right 1143 00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:22.489 did he give you yeah the tapes and so that 1144 00:53:22.780 --> 00:53:25.690 I bought that from Groucho's record shop in Dundee Blonde 1145 00:53:25.710 --> 00:53:27.630 on Blonde it's got my favourite Bob Dylan song on 1146 00:53:27.670 --> 00:53:28.989 it Visions of Johanna which. 1147 00:53:29.090 --> 00:53:32.449 Is like six and a half minute epic so Blonde 1148 00:53:32.489 --> 00:53:37.050 on Blonde for me and then song because yeah Legends 1149 00:53:37.050 --> 00:53:39.400 2 I'm listening to creeping a bit more into the 1150 00:53:39.820 --> 00:53:42.579 90s and also it was such a huge band for 1151 00:53:42.619 --> 00:53:46.380 me I'll go for Oasis and I can't decide between 1152 00:53:46.420 --> 00:53:48.980 Champion Supernova or Don't Look Back in Anger so I 1153 00:53:48.980 --> 00:53:51.920 think I'll go Don't Look Back in Anger but those songs, 1154 00:53:51.980 --> 00:53:54.019 that album at the time was like for me I 1155 00:53:54.039 --> 00:53:58.239 was with my mates in Broughty Ferry in my pal's 1156 00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:01.260 house you know drinking and waiting to get a taxi 1157 00:54:01.300 --> 00:54:03.139 up to the Mardi Gras and the excitement of it 1158 00:54:03.659 --> 00:54:07.130 but I've been I don't think it'll be I can 1159 00:54:07.170 --> 00:54:09.809 pretty confidently say there'll be some sort of oasis I'd 1160 00:54:09.829 --> 00:54:11.409 hope in Legends 2 and I've been listening to the 1161 00:54:11.429 --> 00:54:13.849 playing up today it's a lot of those tracks and 1162 00:54:13.869 --> 00:54:16.269 those areas as I write the script so great band 1163 00:54:16.329 --> 00:54:19.719 and such a kind of exciting exciting time 1164 00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:23.320 Looking forward to even more now thanks for coming on 1165 00:54:23.340 --> 00:54:25.119 sorry again about the defeat tonight