บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Michael Stewart

world so people you know talk and at that 39 00:02:08.629 --> 00:02:11.789 age prior to going down to Man United I'd you 40 00:02:11.810 --> 00:02:13.860 know I'd been round all the sort of Scottish clubs 41 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:17.479 and again you know the same sort of everything's changed 42 00:02:17.500 --> 00:02:20.620 since You guys are a wee bit older than me. 43 00:02:20.659 --> 00:02:25.800 But it was that stage where there wasn't any professional 44 00:02:26.060 --> 00:02:29.780 clubs in the youth football. You'd go and train with them. 45 00:02:30.699 --> 00:02:33.490 So it was exactly the same. I'd been and trained 46 00:02:33.530 --> 00:02:38.310 with all the Scottish clubs and then you quickly narrow 47 00:02:38.349 --> 00:02:40.370 it down to ones that you enjoy the training and 48 00:02:40.530 --> 00:02:45.819 things like that. And then when I was 11... I 49 00:02:45.860 --> 00:02:48.159 went down to Spurs for the first time. They'd had, like, 50 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:52.349 a big game at Cathigan Park, old Third Lanark's ground, 51 00:02:52.669 --> 00:02:56.889 through in Glasgow. There was a game of... The Scouts 52 00:02:56.930 --> 00:03:01.129 must have pulled together a group of Scottish players to 53 00:03:01.150 --> 00:03:05.590 go and play against each other. And then there was 54 00:03:05.620 --> 00:03:07.840 a few... I didn't go down with anyone, but I 55 00:03:07.860 --> 00:03:09.319 think there was a few of us who'd been asked 56 00:03:09.340 --> 00:03:14.979 to go down to Spurs. I went down and... I 57 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:20.460 fucking hated it it was staying in digs where like 58 00:03:20.939 --> 00:03:23.550 you know I was 11 probably just turning 12 maybe 59 00:03:23.849 --> 00:03:26.530 staying with like youth team players who were like 16 60 00:03:26.530 --> 00:03:29.629 so I went to get on the public bus in 61 00:03:29.710 --> 00:03:33.050 London to get to White Hart Lane to jump on 62 00:03:33.090 --> 00:03:35.270 a coach to go to the training ground and then 63 00:03:35.289 --> 00:03:37.469 I was training with the youth team and you know 64 00:03:37.490 --> 00:03:40.439 at that age that gap of like 4-5 years is 65 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:45.409 huge so like you know I'm on my tod you're like, 66 00:03:45.710 --> 00:03:48.330 you know, lingering about. The youth team boys... How long 67 00:03:48.349 --> 00:03:50.370 were you down for this period? It was the school holidays, 68 00:03:50.389 --> 00:03:52.169 so I'd been down for like a week, maybe, you know. 69 00:03:52.590 --> 00:03:56.250 And you just feel like a complete add-on. You've got 70 00:03:56.289 --> 00:03:58.780 nobody really to, like, you know, hang about with. You're 71 00:03:58.789 --> 00:04:00.990 at the training ground and you're just like, this is... 72 00:04:01.340 --> 00:04:04.120 So I really didn't enjoy it at all. And then 73 00:04:04.139 --> 00:04:06.580 I went down to, you know, a few other clubs 74 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:09.460 that was... But, you know, obviously going down to the 75 00:04:09.500 --> 00:04:11.659 English clubs, it's only school holidays you can go, so 76 00:04:11.740 --> 00:04:14.759 you're limited. Mm-hm. I ended up going to West Ham 77 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:20.560 at one point, which was enjoyable. I liked that. Blackburn, Newcastle, Chelsea. 78 00:04:20.620 --> 00:04:24.029 And then at 12 years old, I got asked to 79 00:04:24.050 --> 00:04:26.509 go down to Man United. And that just came about 80 00:04:26.790 --> 00:04:30.769 because they had a network of scouts everywhere. They had 81 00:04:30.910 --> 00:04:31.850 a scout in the. 82 00:04:31.949 --> 00:04:33.990 So who was your team up here at that time? 83 00:04:34.029 --> 00:04:37.389 So at that time, I'd have been playing for either 84 00:04:38.470 --> 00:04:43.680 Liberton or... Everyone at Liberton had moved over to Tyne Castle. 85 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:47.899 I eventually ended up playing with Hutchie. But at that time, 86 00:04:47.939 --> 00:04:50.560 I probably would have been... I'd started out with my 87 00:04:50.699 --> 00:04:55.180 local boys club, Tall Oaks, who were basically just in Crestorfin. 88 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:57.660 That was just the same thing as everybody would be. 89 00:04:57.699 --> 00:05:00.430 It's just your local club with all your mates. And 90 00:05:00.459 --> 00:05:04.269 then I moved to Liberton, who were the best team 91 00:05:04.329 --> 00:05:07.209 at that age. But the biggest thing, from my parents' perspective, 92 00:05:07.230 --> 00:05:11.509 was that the coaches were really good. and I've got 93 00:05:11.529 --> 00:05:13.629 to give them a lot of credit because obviously when 94 00:05:13.649 --> 00:05:15.600 you're a wee man you don't even think about that 95 00:05:15.939 --> 00:05:20.120 but I think they recognised the importance of good coaches 96 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:24.250 so I'd moved to them and then everybody for Liberty 97 00:05:24.259 --> 00:05:25.670 and I don't know why, I don't know what the 98 00:05:25.730 --> 00:05:29.129 issue or the story was but they all went to tiny, 99 00:05:29.410 --> 00:05:33.129 the coaches the whole team so I was probably either 100 00:05:33.189 --> 00:05:35.149 one of them when I went down to United for 101 00:05:35.170 --> 00:05:35.889 the first time. 102 00:05:36.569 --> 00:05:37.000 And it was a. 103 00:05:38.949 --> 00:05:42.060 Scout in the east of Scotland, Andy Pirrie, and there 104 00:05:42.069 --> 00:05:44.420 was a scout in the west, Jimmy Dickey. You may 105 00:05:44.459 --> 00:05:45.519 well know these boys. 106 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:45.860 Aye. 107 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.050 I actually went down a year, I was 13 and 14, 108 00:05:50.050 --> 00:05:53.970 right when I went down to Madden. My era was the, 109 00:05:53.970 --> 00:05:55.189 92 team. 110 00:05:55.370 --> 00:05:56.089 Right, aye. 111 00:05:56.110 --> 00:05:58.529 So it was seven years for Scotland. Aye. So the 112 00:05:58.550 -->

00:06:00.110 same experience. It was the guys that picked it through. 113 00:06:00.129 --> 00:06:00.370 Aye. 114 00:06:00.730 --> 00:06:02.689 I went down two years, I didn't get the third 115 00:06:02.730 --> 00:06:03.089 year done. 116 00:06:03.370 --> 00:06:03.589 Right. 117 00:06:03.709 --> 00:06:04.750 The other ones they signed for me. 118 00:06:04.750 --> 00:06:06.779 So you just went down to the school holidays as well? 119 00:06:07.259 --> 00:06:10.220 Aye. We stayed in Halls of Residence. 120 00:06:10.420 --> 00:06:11.660 Oh, did you stay in Halls of Residence, right? 121 00:06:11.899 --> 00:06:14.660 And then we trained at the club. 122 00:06:14.699 --> 00:06:17.740 Just around the corner from the cliff there was Littleton Road, 123 00:06:18.100 --> 00:06:20.180 which was like more, there was more pitches there. 124 00:06:20.779 --> 00:06:27.839 It was Sir Alex and Archie would have been there. 125 00:06:27.860 --> 00:06:31.600 The boys from Seventh Year Scotland, you had the ones 126 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:37.319 from England, Ireland, Wales, but that was in 92. The 127 00:06:37.339 --> 00:06:43.540 only one from that group, Gary Locke was down, Alan Johnson. 128 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:45.000 Colin McKee. 129 00:06:45.420 --> 00:06:45.620 Yeah. 130 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:47.839 Tommy Harrison. Yeah. 131 00:06:48.339 --> 00:06:51.079 And Tommy, what did they sign? Tommy was in their house. 132 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:51.939 He stayed in their house. 133 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:53.339 Colin McKee signed. 134 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:54.860 Was there a group of yous down at that time? 135 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:59.819 So there was, aye, there was a lad from through 136 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:03.560 the west who became my, like, roommate when we were 137 00:07:03.579 --> 00:07:07.019 in digs, a guy called Stephen Cosgrove, Cosy, who, big 138 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:10.949 Celtic man, he ended up going back up to to 139 00:07:11.009 --> 00:07:14.129 Motherwell unfortunately it was just when they went into administration 140 00:07:15.509 --> 00:07:18.500 and then obviously you'd get sort of different ages as 141 00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:23.420 well so latterly Fletch would come down John Rankin was 142 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:26.120 you know would be down as well so there wasn't 143 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:27.779 as many as like seven of us were going down 144 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:31.269 but there was like across the spread in different age 145 00:07:31.310 --> 00:07:33.509 groups there was maybe four or five that would go 146 00:07:33.550 --> 00:07:36.209 down but it was brilliant like you know what you're 147 00:07:36.230 --> 00:07:39.069 describing there you then the difference I'm trying to you 148 00:07:39.089 --> 00:07:41.769 know Gave the example of contrasting it with what we 149 00:07:41.810 --> 00:07:45.019 experienced at Spurs, which was just like... And then you 150 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:47.040 go down to United and you've got all your peers. 151 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:51.620 So you've got guys from all over Ireland and Wales 152 00:07:51.660 --> 00:07:54.279 and Scotland and England. And then there's folk from the 153 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:57.819 continent as well. Maybe a couple that they've scouted. So 154 00:07:57.839 --> 00:07:59.850 you're playing amongst each other. So there's that wee bit 155 00:07:59.870 --> 00:08:03.129 of competition as well where you're wanting to show. But 156 00:08:03.350 --> 00:08:08.250 it was brilliant because we used to stay... It was 157 00:08:08.269 --> 00:08:11.970 the Castlefield Hotel, not the Copthorn. And it had a 158 00:08:12.050 --> 00:08:14.089 big indoor hall at the side of it. So you're 159 00:08:14.110 --> 00:08:16.370 just being mucking about at the end of the night 160 00:08:16.410 --> 00:08:18.689 as well. So it just felt like a big holiday. 161 00:08:18.810 --> 00:08:21.670 It became like your mates. Because you got to know 162 00:08:21.689 --> 00:08:25.089 each other after a few times. And the first time 163 00:08:25.110 --> 00:08:29.639 we went down around Lyttelton Road, the gaffers stand and 164 00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:31.610 watch him. That's what I was about to say. He's 165 00:08:31.629 --> 00:08:34.169 standing watching. Unbelievable. 166 00:08:34.210 --> 00:08:34.649 Hands on. 167 00:08:34.909 --> 00:08:38.539 That just is not, like, again, like, we've beaten the game, 168 00:08:38.659 --> 00:08:41.039 you know, you get to first team level, that's not normal, 169 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:43.340 you know, and you're talking about the biggest club about, 170 00:08:43.899 --> 00:08:47.600 and he's standing watching, like, 12-year-olds playing football, chatting to 171 00:08:47.620 --> 00:08:50.090 the scouts, you know, finding everyone out, coming over and 172 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:52.389 speaking to you afterwards, and you're just sort of like, 173 00:08:52.909 --> 00:08:56.629 oh my word, just making you feel like 10 foot tall. 174 00:08:57.110 --> 00:08:59.690 And then, thankfully, just, you know, doing well enough that, 175 00:08:59.830 --> 00:09:02.820 you know, keep getting asked to come back down. And 176 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:04.919 then quite quickly, you sort of get a feel for, 177 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:12.320 I think, there'll probably be an offer to join for school. 178 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:17.299 And then, yeah, there was early enough. I had a chance, 179 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:21.710 I think, when I was probably about 13, Hearts had 180 00:09:22.230 --> 00:09:25.809 wanted me to sign S forms. And I just remember 181 00:09:25.870 --> 00:09:29.049 being in there and my dad was just like, you're 182 00:09:29.090 --> 00:09:31.110 not signing. And I was just like, why? Like, why? 183 00:09:31.350 --> 00:09:33.690 You know, and he was like, he went, S form's just, 184 00:09:34.210 --> 00:09:37.539 it's ridiculous. He was like, they've got no obligation to like, 185 00:09:37.659 --> 00:09:40.220 do

anything for you. As soon as you finish school, 186 00:09:40.580 --> 00:09:42.500 they don't need to keep you. And he was like, 187 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:45.299 if you do well enough, they'll still want you. He said, 188 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:47.990 so all that does is basically the benefit of the club. 189 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:52.269 He says, it doesn't benefit you at all. So again, 190 00:09:52.450 --> 00:09:55.590 you know, good advice for, you know, folks, because otherwise, 191 00:09:56.149 --> 00:09:58.289 and he was like, you just think, he was like, 192 00:09:58.330 --> 00:10:01.049 sort of, He was like, you've got, three or four 193 00:10:01.090 --> 00:10:04.649 years until you finish school it's nothing and he was 194 00:10:04.669 --> 00:10:07.370 like in that three or four years you continue to 195 00:10:07.409 --> 00:10:10.700 do well offers will be there from all the clubs 196 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:14.529 so there's no point pinning yourself down to one club 197 00:10:15.419 --> 00:10:19.090 and then once it got can't remember exactly but it 198 00:10:19.110 --> 00:10:21.090 was obvious at that point you know I'd been going 199 00:10:21.110 --> 00:10:23.610 for so long and I knew that in my sort 200 00:10:23.629 --> 00:10:25.850 of mind that it was the best place to go 201 00:10:25.870 --> 00:10:28.389 because it was like everything like we just explained it 202 00:10:28.409 --> 00:10:31.129 was the most enjoyable it was the best coaches it 203 00:10:31.149 --> 00:10:34.409 was the best like club for actual genuine like getting 204 00:10:34.429 --> 00:10:37.350 an opportunity because that's what the gaffer was doing. 205 00:10:37.210 --> 00:10:39.649 Yeah yeah looking at the Man United team at that 206 00:10:39.690 --> 00:10:41.039 time as well all the youth that came. 207 00:10:40.909 --> 00:10:44.460 Through of that exactly so like you know obviously when 208 00:10:44.509 --> 00:10:51.950 I when I was going down in 98 97, 98 209 00:10:51.950 --> 00:10:56.590 when I had finished school and I went down. I 210 00:10:56.610 --> 00:11:01.090 would have been 97. So a lot of your age 211 00:11:01.110 --> 00:11:03.190 group you're talking about there, they were on the cusp 212 00:11:03.210 --> 00:11:05.850 of coming through, so it wasn't that they were established 213 00:11:05.950 --> 00:11:10.950 full blown. They were there. But you could already see 214 00:11:11.210 --> 00:11:14.549 prior to that that that's what the gaffer was doing, 215 00:11:14.629 --> 00:11:17.129 you know? And the difference with United to everywhere else 216 00:11:17.149 --> 00:11:19.090 as well is you'd go into the training ground and 217 00:11:19.190 --> 00:11:24.070 everybody spoke to everybody. Nothing was like sectioned off. It 218 00:11:24.090 --> 00:11:25.889 wasn't like the youth team there and the reserves there 219 00:11:25.909 --> 00:11:27.529 and the first team over there. It was like school 220 00:11:27.549 --> 00:11:30.350 boys chatting to reserves, first team chatting to youth team. 221 00:11:31.230 --> 00:11:32.509 And a lot of it was due to the fact 222 00:11:32.549 --> 00:11:34.289 that the manager had created that. 223 00:11:34.409 --> 00:11:36.370 I think that's a great point because just as you're 224 00:11:36.389 --> 00:11:38.720 talking about, I remember when I first went into Celtic, 225 00:11:38.769 --> 00:11:41.500 it was similar. You had your reserves, you're under 18, 226 00:11:41.500 --> 00:11:44.879 your reserves in your first team, but there was... you 227 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:47.519 were mingling. You were mingling. You were sometimes, if you 228 00:11:47.570 --> 00:11:50.549 were to the reserves, some of them were with you. 229 00:11:50.970 --> 00:11:52.830 You were always aspiring to try and get into that 230 00:11:53.129 --> 00:11:56.669 first team shake-up, but you felt part of it. Whereas nowadays, 231 00:11:57.669 --> 00:11:59.470 I don't think, the youths might not even be training 232 00:11:59.529 --> 00:12:02.230 in the same hemisphere as the first team. You know, 233 00:12:02.269 --> 00:12:05.669 different places. I know Celtic, Barrowfield and different things like that. 234 00:12:05.690 --> 00:12:06.990 So that was a big thing for you. 235 00:12:07.009 --> 00:12:10.289 Aye. But, you know, it becomes a bigger thing, I think, 236 00:12:10.370 --> 00:12:11.049 when you get older. 237 00:12:11.070 --> 00:12:12.870 You're watching pros and how they deal with it day 238 00:12:12.909 --> 00:12:13.070 to day. 239 00:12:13.090 --> 00:12:14.799 Yeah, totally. Do you know what I mean in terms 240 00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:16.899 of you're aware of it more when you're older and 241 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:19.360 you're like, because at that time you've got nothing, you've 242 00:12:19.379 --> 00:12:21.539 got no experience, you don't know how to, but it 243 00:12:21.580 --> 00:12:23.899 feels good. You know, I think you sort of get 244 00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:24.740 a feeling for. 245 00:12:26.110 --> 00:12:26.289 It. 246 00:12:27.169 --> 00:12:30.230 But there's also like a huge respect. It's not like, 247 00:12:30.309 --> 00:12:32.570 you know, you're not like mucking about and, you know, 248 00:12:32.649 --> 00:12:34.610 taking the piss or anything like that. It's just a 249 00:12:34.870 --> 00:12:37.789 feeling of like, of course you respect. I think you 250 00:12:37.830 --> 00:12:40.440 said it there. like that aspiration of like, that's where 251 00:12:40.460 --> 00:12:43.059 I want to get to, but it doesn't feel unattainable, 252 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:45.480 because it's like, well, that's Jimmy, I know Jimmy, and 253 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:49.559 that's so-and-so, they're good guys, you get a sense, well, 254 00:12:49.580 --> 00:12:53.580 they're just like me, you know, which definitely was, it 255 00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:57.960 was definitely a positive, and I don't know whether it's just, 256 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:00.440 you know, a sign of the times as

well, that 257 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:04.259 I'm not sure, because I think we would all recognise 258 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:08.389 and feel that nowadays, that they're definitely that sort of, 259 00:13:10.820 --> 00:13:13.379 rights of passage or you know sort of path of 260 00:13:13.460 --> 00:13:16.899 getting to there like in one hand we're talking about 261 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:19.279 where it feels detached there isn't that same sort of 262 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:21.360 like you know connection with all of them but it 263 00:13:21.379 --> 00:13:24.879 also feels like certain like in society as a whole 264 00:13:25.419 --> 00:13:28.610 that youth they're just getting to there without any real 265 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:31.009 path you know it's just like they expect to be 266 00:13:31.049 --> 00:13:33.529 there right now and if they're not it's like what 267 00:13:33.549 --> 00:13:36.190 the fuck's going on I demand this I need that 268 00:13:36.250 --> 00:13:37.250 right now and. 269 00:13:37.210 --> 00:13:40.690 It's that's not great It's not healthy either. 270 00:13:40.889 --> 00:13:41.730 No, no. 271 00:13:43.470 --> 00:13:47.190 So you obviously signed there then. How does that then 272 00:13:47.769 --> 00:13:51.309 kick on for you? Because you're in against some top 273 00:13:52.210 --> 00:13:54.350 players there to try and break through. As a young 274 00:13:54.389 --> 00:13:55.330 boy coming through. 275 00:13:55.730 --> 00:13:59.820 It's a challenge for you. Yeah, so I mean... Joining 276 00:14:00.379 --> 00:14:02.740 at 16 years old, all you're thinking about is just 277 00:14:02.980 --> 00:14:05.080 what's at the end of your nose, really. The same 278 00:14:05.139 --> 00:14:09.000 as when you're 12 and you're playing football with the 279 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.590 folk that are from all over Scotland and Ireland and 280 00:14:13.649 --> 00:14:16.990 England and Wales and often mainland Europe. It's like what's 281 00:14:17.090 --> 00:14:20.610 right there in front of you. It's like, Wayne from Wales, 282 00:14:20.769 --> 00:14:25.409 he's a good player. I've got to compete. You're learning 283 00:14:25.429 --> 00:14:28.740 how to compete. And then bit by bit, you know, 284 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:30.730 you're just sort of making your way through and then 285 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:33.909 it's like into the, because again, I don't know what 286 00:14:33.929 --> 00:14:35.789 the set up in Scotland was at the time, but 287 00:14:35.809 --> 00:14:37.710 obviously down there it was like A team, B team. 288 00:14:37.909 --> 00:14:40.090 It was like first year, second year, then it was reserves, 289 00:14:40.370 --> 00:14:42.230 and then it was first team. So there was like 290 00:14:42.289 --> 00:14:46.129 a clear, you know, stepping stones. And then you're getting 291 00:14:46.169 --> 00:14:49.210 into the reserves and then, you know, you're starting to 292 00:14:49.230 --> 00:14:53.450 see folk just like drifting away and you

keep, you know, progressing. 293 00:14:54.509 --> 00:14:57.809 So for me, it was just like, it just felt 294 00:14:57.830 --> 00:15:02.850 like a constant sort of progression, upward trajectory to breaking 295 00:15:02.889 --> 00:15:07.929 in and making a debut for the first team. And 296 00:15:07.970 --> 00:15:10.389 there was always that, like United as well was never, 297 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:14.299 it was never somewhere where, you know, I could have 298 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:21.159 gone to many other clubs and earned more money, but again, 299 00:15:21.399 --> 00:15:24.559 sort of projecting slightly here, but with a certain degree 300 00:15:24.580 --> 00:15:27.639 of knowledge that I think what he was doing was, 301 00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:31.240 and he would say it subtly as well, for you 302 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:33.559 to get something, you're not going to be given it. 303 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.960 You get to there, you'll get what you deserve. You're 304 00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:39.740 not going to get it in advance because it sort 305 00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:44.539 of neuters that hunger and that drive. So going into 306 00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:46.840 the youth team, you could go to other clubs and 307 00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:49.519 get more money, but you don't mind United. There was 308 00:15:49.539 --> 00:15:52.139 an element of that. This is the best place, so 309 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:54.100 this is what you need to do. you get to there, 310 00:15:54.340 --> 00:15:59.070 you'll get rewarded. Get there, you'll get rewarded. And also 311 00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:02.269 that was how it panned out until such time as 312 00:16:02.330 --> 00:16:04.429 obviously going to the first team and then it was like, 313 00:16:04.570 --> 00:16:08.389 there's a first team contract. Obviously, it's a first team 314 00:16:08.429 --> 00:16:10.820 contract which is brilliant, but it's not like the top. 315 00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:12.500 It's the same thing. You get into the first team, 316 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:16.679 you continue to develop, you'll get another. So, it was just, 317 00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:23.049 there was no, again, like, I think it's once you 318 00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:26.340 get older and you leave and you've got a certain 319 00:16:26.539 --> 00:16:30.980 sense of, you've got something else to compare with. Because 320 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:34.600 I remember looking back and folk would ask, oh, that's unbelievable. 321 00:16:34.620 --> 00:16:38.200 You were doing that and you were like, well, you 322 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:42.039 don't know anything different. So it was what it was. 323 00:16:43.419 --> 00:16:46.690 But there was never any, at that point, I don't 324 00:16:46.710 --> 00:16:50.970 think I ever contemplated or thought about how am I 325 00:16:50.990 --> 00:16:55.230 going to, get to there just like well aye I'm 326 00:16:55.250 --> 00:16:58.409 listening to the gaffer I'm listening to those folk it's just. 327 00:16:58.289 --> 00:17:00.610 Like that's just youth kind of taking in your stride 328 00:17:00.690 --> 00:17:01.370 a wee bit. 329 00:17:01.169 --> 00:17:03.950 Totally there totally is but also like I'm saying you're 330 00:17:03.970 --> 00:17:05.769 listening to these folk and they're saying you keep doing 331 00:17:05.970 --> 00:17:08.680 this you'll get there you keep doing you know so 332 00:17:09.579 --> 00:17:12.000 aye but there is there's 100% there's an element of 333 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:17.180 innocence of youth you know well I suppose erm one 334 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:19.599 of the sort of problems I had, especially once, you know, 335 00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:23.200 getting to that stage, the gaffer, I remember him saying 336 00:17:23.220 --> 00:17:24.819 to me, he says like, your fucking problem is you've 337 00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:27.099 got too many brains in your head. So it was like, 338 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:29.950 you know, you start to overthink it. You know, once 339 00:17:29.970 --> 00:17:33.930 you get, so you're getting to that stage where, you know, 340 00:17:34.589 --> 00:17:37.349 things are getting more difficult. You're in the first team 341 00:17:37.390 --> 00:17:43.970 squad and it's, opportunities are, you know, they're more difficult 342 00:17:44.369 --> 00:17:46.839 and then you're starting to like, think like, how's that right? 343 00:17:46.900 --> 00:17:48.720 Where am I fitting in here? How am I getting that? 344 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:51.460 Where am I getting to there? And, to a certain degree, 345 00:17:51.589 --> 00:17:55.130 you've just got to be oblivious to that. And that's, 346 00:17:55.529 --> 00:17:56.430 you know, that's an act. 347 00:17:56.470 --> 00:17:58.670 Rather than being instinctive where you'd been a wee bit before. 348 00:17:58.750 --> 00:18:02.029 Totally. And, I mean, one of the big problems that 349 00:18:02.509 --> 00:18:07.579 I faced at that point was that when I'd just signed, 350 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:12.859 or around about that point, I'd signed a new first 351 00:18:12.940 --> 00:18:19.930 team contract, Roy's lawyer, Michael Kennedy, it was almost a 352 00:18:20.430 --> 00:18:23.210 conveyor belt. When I speak to the gaffer, right, there's 353 00:18:23.230 --> 00:18:26.910 the first, right, okay, brilliant, right, go and speak to Roy, right, okay, 354 00:18:26.950 --> 00:18:28.670 I'm going to speak to Roy, right, I'll get Michael 355 00:18:28.690 --> 00:18:31.529 to phone you, so speak to Michael, Michael goes in, 356 00:18:31.849 --> 00:18:35.150 gets a better deal. So Roy's lawyer, never had an agent, 357 00:18:35.349 --> 00:18:37.269 Roy's lawyer basically done the contract. 358 00:18:39.289 --> 00:18:42.390 I think recently, even like Sir Gary, I'm sure there 359 00:18:42.430 --> 00:18:45.059 was always Speak to Roy. It seemed to be he 360 00:18:45.099 --> 00:18:45.509 was kind of. 361 00:18:45.769 --> 00:18:46.460 Well, he was. 362 00:18:47.230 --> 00:18:51.650

Yeah, he was the man. And there was like, I 363 00:18:51.910 --> 00:18:53.349 think there was four or five of us around about 364 00:18:53.369 --> 00:18:55.710 the same sort of time. Wes had not long, previous 365 00:18:55.769 --> 00:18:59.650 Brown had signed a new deal. Chad, remember Luke Chad? 366 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:03.980 Chad had done it. Shazy, myself. So that was, you 367 00:19:04.019 --> 00:19:07.740 could see effectively what the gaffer was, he was looking, right, 368 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:10.339 that's the next group of guys that I'm moving on. 369 00:19:10.940 --> 00:19:13.819 The problem was for me at the same point, was 370 00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:18.509 the gaffer was meant to be retiring the end of 371 00:19:18.549 --> 00:19:21.150 that year when a member of the Champions League final 372 00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:25.609 was at Hampden. Real Madrid v Bayer Leverkusen. So that 373 00:19:25.650 --> 00:19:29.109 had been about 2002 or 2000, around about that time. 374 00:19:29.329 --> 00:19:30.549 So he was talking about retiring? 375 00:19:30.569 --> 00:19:32.450 Well, he was. He announced he was going to retire. 376 00:19:32.470 --> 00:19:37.450 But at the start of that season, he had signed 377 00:19:37.990 --> 00:19:42.670 Juan Sebastian Varane. So I look at it and I 378 00:19:42.690 --> 00:19:47.079 think to myself, that feels a bit like the Van 379 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:49.819 Persie at the end, where it was like signing somebody 380 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:52.859 to try and get an end result but a bit 381 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.519 of a short term fix which was not really what 382 00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:58.730 he was doing so he signed up all the young 383 00:19:58.769 --> 00:20:00.450 boys and here's a bit of a short term fix 384 00:20:00.470 --> 00:20:03.130 but the problem for me was obviously playing in midfield 385 00:20:03.150 --> 00:20:07.509 that's even more difficult first game of the season where 386 00:20:07.529 --> 00:20:10.190 I was a Champions League qualifier against a Hungarian team 387 00:20:10.230 --> 00:20:14.980 called Zalagorzeg, and we were out in Budapest, playing, and 388 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.700 I was on the bench, and so was Skolze and Butty, 389 00:20:20.099 --> 00:20:21.960 and I'm sitting there thinking to myself, that's when it 390 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.589 was dawning on me, thinking like, fucking hell, like, like, fuck, 391 00:20:26.730 --> 00:20:30.549 you know, broken in, making your debut, signing a new deal, 392 00:20:30.730 --> 00:20:33.230 and then it's like, you're still sitting there as well, aye, 393 00:20:33.809 --> 00:20:35.130 And you know what it's like in football at that 394 00:20:35.190 --> 00:20:38.130 point in particular, like the longer it takes to make 395 00:20:38.210 --> 00:20:41.220 that net and become established, the more difficult it becomes, 396 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:44.200 you know? You can't really afford to be sort of, 397 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.299

you know, not wasting, but plateauing. 398 00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:49.920 So what was the standard? Obviously, when you played in 399 00:20:49.940 --> 00:20:51.529 the first team, you played the reserve games. 400 00:20:51.950 --> 00:20:52.309 Ah, yeah. 401 00:20:52.329 --> 00:20:54.970 Was it similar to Scotland where you play when the 402 00:20:55.009 --> 00:20:55.789 first team's playing? 403 00:20:56.750 --> 00:20:57.970 Not at the weekends, no. 404 00:20:58.150 --> 00:20:58.849 It was during the week. 405 00:20:58.890 --> 00:21:01.500 It was during the week, but... Yeah, so you'd just 406 00:21:01.539 --> 00:21:03.369 be training with the first team and then you'd be 407 00:21:03.549 --> 00:21:06.710 in the squad and you'd be primarily, your games were, 408 00:21:06.750 --> 00:21:07.970 you'd be playing in the Razzies. 409 00:21:07.990 --> 00:21:08.509 So a good standard. 410 00:21:08.529 --> 00:21:10.609 Oh, but the Razzies, I mean, you're talking about a 411 00:21:10.650 --> 00:21:12.750 good team. I remember some games, there was a game 412 00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:13.470 in particular. 413 00:21:13.490 --> 00:21:16.559 Is that side of it similar then? So you're senior pros, 414 00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:16.960 you're going to. 415 00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:20.420 Aye. Well, I mean, yeah, so I remember one game 416 00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:23.640 playing with the Razzies, we were playing Liverpool and our 417 00:21:23.660 --> 00:21:27.339 team was like, it was the likes of, say, Roy 418 00:21:27.380 --> 00:21:33.099 Carroll was in goals. it was like Shazy, me, Davey May, 419 00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:42.380 and then you had like Butty, Ollie, Teddy, remember Jonathan Greenan? 420 00:21:42.460 --> 00:21:43.019 Jonathan Greenan? 421 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:43.119 Yeah. 422 00:21:43.569 --> 00:21:47.150 Jonathan was playing, Healy, David Healy, it was that sort of, 423 00:21:47.150 --> 00:21:48.509 you know, you're looking at a team and you've got 424 00:21:48.529 --> 00:21:54.289 a basketball team. Liverpool was like Kirkland and goals, Redknapp, Smeitzer, 425 00:21:54.859 --> 00:21:58.640 I think Fowler was coming back from an injury. You know, like, 426 00:21:58.819 --> 00:22:02.539 the two teams that you're calling, like, that's, like, two 427 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:05.420 proper teams. And it wasn't like that every week, but, 428 00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:09.039 you know, there was definitely, there was scope for guys 429 00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:09.880 to be playing. 430 00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:13.670 But at that point, your thinking is, were you already thinking, 431 00:22:13.690 --> 00:22:15.089 I might need to move here to get. 432 00:22:15.130 --> 00:22:18.349 No, I wasn't thinking about moving, no, but you're starting 433 00:22:18.410 --> 00:22:20.809 to just question, because up until that point, I never 434 00:22:20.829 --> 00:22:22.809 thought about anything else other than just playing at my night. 435 00:22:22.869 --> 00:22:23.470 Yeah. 436 00:22:24.529 --> 00:22:30.250 No, I was starting to think, I'm not sure. Whereas before, 437 00:22:30.269 --> 00:22:34.890 I didn't have any. There was no doubt. At the 438 00:22:34.910 --> 00:22:37.400 start of the next season, I went to Forrest on 439 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:42.359 loan because it was like a season of not doing enough. 440 00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:45.660 You're saying he announced his retirement. How did that manufacture again? 441 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:46.289 Did he just.... 442 00:22:48.950 --> 00:22:50.250 I don't, I don't know. 443 00:22:52.569 --> 00:22:56.269 Well, I think he's obviously, I think he's obviously, I 444 00:22:56.309 --> 00:22:58.650 think he's obviously spoken about it publicly in terms of, 445 00:23:00.450 --> 00:23:03.920 I think in large part, he said that, you know, 446 00:23:03.980 --> 00:23:07.259 his message was like, you know, you've got too much, 447 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:09.640 you know, you need to keep going. And I think 448 00:23:09.900 --> 00:23:11.420 he was also feeling it himself. 449 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:11.660 Yeah. 450 00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:15.819 So, I think there was possibly maybe an element of 451 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:17.579 the fact that the Champions League final was at Hampden 452 00:23:17.619 --> 00:23:21.029 that year he maybe just thought imagine that finish at 453 00:23:21.049 --> 00:23:25.210 Hampden and just sail off into the sun but I 454 00:23:25.230 --> 00:23:27.589 don't know but what I do just remember was that 455 00:23:28.329 --> 00:23:31.950 it was probably the first time you know being at 456 00:23:31.970 --> 00:23:35.529 the club where there was an element of uncertainty surrounding 457 00:23:35.549 --> 00:23:38.589 the club as a whole and the season if my 458 00:23:38.630 --> 00:23:42.690 recollection is correct the season didn't start particularly well it 459 00:23:42.710 --> 00:23:45.880 was a bit shaky Carlos Queiroz had come in as 460 00:23:45.940 --> 00:23:49.279 like assistant manager his coaching was different as well everything 461 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:54.250 just felt like it was unsure and he reverted back 462 00:23:54.289 --> 00:23:56.950 to you know playing a lot of the like but 463 00:23:56.970 --> 00:23:59.650 he started playing a lot more that season yeah so 464 00:23:59.670 --> 00:24:01.250 that would have been 2002 I'll tell you why I 465 00:24:01.250 --> 00:24:03.170 remember because at the end of the season he went 466 00:24:03.190 --> 00:24:05.329 to the World Cup England and ended up being like 467 00:24:05.529 --> 00:24:08.349 England's best player at the start of the season it 468 00:24:08.369 --> 00:24:10.849 was didn't know what was going to happen yeah And 469 00:24:10.869 --> 00:24:11.950 I think a lot of it was down to the 470 00:24:11.970 --> 00:24:14.690 gaffer was like he needed to get back to folk 471 00:24:14.710 --> 00:24:18.940 that he could trust, starting to build back up. So 472 00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:22.319 it was

possibly an element of he didn't feel like 473 00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:24.420 it was going to end up what he wanted it. 474 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:27.380 And it was like, I'm not leaving on a low. 475 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:31.000 And obviously he stayed. And I think everybody at that 476 00:24:31.059 --> 00:24:34.680 point felt, this is definitely the right decision. And it 477 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:39.799 took away an element of, uncertainty that hadn't never really 478 00:24:39.819 --> 00:24:43.359 been there before as long as I'd known so you kind. 479 00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:44.619 Of got to the start of the next season and 480 00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:46.440 then what's your thought process. 481 00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:49.849 I saw the gaffer was wanting me to go he 482 00:24:49.869 --> 00:24:52.769 wanted me to go on loan to Burnley I remember 483 00:24:52.829 --> 00:24:58.430 Stan Ternan he was he was the gaffer's mate and 484 00:24:58.970 --> 00:25:03.390 he wanted me to go there but I wasn't too 485 00:25:03.450 --> 00:25:08.730 sure and I had quite a few guys that I 486 00:25:08.750 --> 00:25:11.950 knew that were down at Forest, and Forest had got 487 00:25:11.990 --> 00:25:15.549 to the playoffs the year before, and they played some 488 00:25:15.589 --> 00:25:18.670 good football, but this is just my ignorance and my 489 00:25:18.730 --> 00:25:25.170 stupidity when I look back on it all. So I 490 00:25:26.829 --> 00:25:29.049 ended up going down, I was like, no, no, I 491 00:25:29.069 --> 00:25:31.190 want to go, so I went there, and. 492 00:25:34.089 --> 00:25:36.789 Like Ian Jester was there so that's where I got 493 00:25:36.809 --> 00:25:38.069 to he was the manager there so it was a 494 00:25:38.089 --> 00:25:40.880 guy called Paul Hart he was the youth team manager 495 00:25:41.019 --> 00:25:43.339 he was the youth team manager and became the first 496 00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:50.140 team manager and he ended up didn't he start you 497 00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:55.680 know the team didn't start particularly well he had a 498 00:25:55.799 --> 00:26:01.380 great propensity for just you know focusing all his ire 499 00:26:01.460 --> 00:26:04.069 on young boys he'd been the youth team manager couldn't 500 00:26:04.109 --> 00:26:06.869 really deal with experienced players, so it was like, you 501 00:26:06.890 --> 00:26:09.569 start to get this sort of split of like, they're 502 00:26:09.589 --> 00:26:12.009 getting blamed for everything, they can do whatever they want, 503 00:26:12.109 --> 00:26:15.380 and it's like, that's fucking bullshit, you know, so it 504 00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:18.200 started to become quite a sort of fractured, but I mean, 505 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:19.819 it was a good team for us, you know, I 506 00:26:19.819 --> 00:26:26.039 had like, big Michael Dawson, centre half, Andy Reid, midfield, Jester, 507 00:26:27.220 --> 00:26:31.569 who was still just a class player, they had quite 508 00:26:31.589 --> 00:26:35.549 a few other boys that, Irish boys that were like 509 00:26:35.630 --> 00:26:39.460 good good players and some other sort of foreign guys 510 00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.599 I mean it was a good team but just didn't 511 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:45.220 it wasn't a particularly good season and by the end 512 00:26:45.259 --> 00:26:47.460 of it What year was this? That would have been 513 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:49.519 like 03, 04 I'm. 514 00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:53.130 Just trying to remember if I played against I think 515 00:26:53.190 --> 00:26:55.650 Jess was at Was Jess at Bradford before that? 516 00:26:56.029 --> 00:26:57.650 That was way before, aye, because that was when the 517 00:26:57.730 --> 00:27:00.130 jet was down at Bradford. And then after Bradford, did 518 00:27:00.170 --> 00:27:02.799 Jess still not come back up to Aberdeen? I think 519 00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:07.299 he did. No, no, no. That was Coventry back to Aberdeen, 520 00:27:07.619 --> 00:27:14.660 down to Bradford. He maybe went Bradford to Forest, possibly. So, 521 00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:19.000 and at that point, you know, so it hadn't been 522 00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:24.910 a good season. And I remember going back to United 523 00:27:24.970 --> 00:27:26.119 at the start of the season and I was like, 524 00:27:26.130 --> 00:27:30.720 this is not good. It's not the way it should 525 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:35.960 have been. And at that point, I think it was 526 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:38.849 in pre-season, I remember having a meeting with the gaffer 527 00:27:39.460 --> 00:27:42.130 and it was just like, right, you're going to need 528 00:27:42.150 --> 00:27:47.549 to leave. And I just wanted to go home. So 529 00:27:48.349 --> 00:27:48.519 I had. 530 00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:53.539 But the last part of the season, I hadn't played much, 531 00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.839 so it was a case of, I had a chance 532 00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.960 to come back up, and go into Rangers, but they 533 00:27:59.980 --> 00:28:02.930 were like, just want, obviously big, Alec McLeish was the 534 00:28:02.970 --> 00:28:05.150 manager at the time, and it was like, come back up, 535 00:28:05.190 --> 00:28:08.250 but come and do pre-season, make sure, fitness wise, and 536 00:28:08.269 --> 00:28:10.369 I was like, fine, no problem, anyway, I went in, 537 00:28:11.230 --> 00:28:15.940 I'd agreed, outlining our contract, but I had to obviously, 538 00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:20.000 and I went out to do pre-season, and on the 539 00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:24.349 plane out, I remember whoever it was, some official saying, 540 00:28:24.470 --> 00:28:26.650 we can't get clearance for you to play. And I 541 00:28:26.670 --> 00:28:29.359 was like, oh, right, okay. So then I'm trying to 542 00:28:29.390 --> 00:28:34.039 speak to United because it was an international cross-border transfer, effectively. 543 00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.140 And then it was like, oh, you're going to have 544 00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:43.819 to sort

out a severance then be able to play. 545 00:28:44.539 --> 00:28:47.529 And I was like, right, okay. And then I'm trying 546 00:28:47.549 --> 00:28:51.819 to negotiate a severance to be able to play And 547 00:28:51.859 --> 00:28:58.259 it was just, it wasn't happening. It was, like anything, 548 00:28:58.299 --> 00:29:00.359 negotiations are taking a bit of time and I'm trying 549 00:29:00.380 --> 00:29:02.660 to speed this up. I had a wee problem, it 550 00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:05.460 wasn't a problem, but I had a niggle in my 551 00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:08.619 ankle as well. And effectively, by the end of this 552 00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:13.269 trip out to, I think it was in Austria, Slovenia, 553 00:29:14.849 --> 00:29:17.170 Big Heck had said, look, I'm not comfortable doing this. 554 00:29:17.549 --> 00:29:22.220 Because what I was getting offered from United was... not 555 00:29:22.420 --> 00:29:24.519 what I should have been. And I was like, I 556 00:29:24.539 --> 00:29:26.599 was actually willing to do it in the end and 557 00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:30.269 do the deal. And he was like, look, you can't 558 00:29:30.309 --> 00:29:32.609 do that. Like, it's not like that. 559 00:29:32.690 --> 00:29:35.369 Is that because you're getting your last year of the contract? 560 00:29:35.369 --> 00:29:36.680 No, no, it's not three years. 561 00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:37.009 Oh, wow. 562 00:29:37.009 --> 00:29:39.079 It's not three years. So, I mean, this was it 563 00:29:39.099 --> 00:29:41.900 was big money yeah but I was like I just 564 00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:44.599 wanted to go home and play football at that point 565 00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:46.920 and he was like I'm not comfortable so they basically 566 00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:50.009 said no we're not going to do this so I'm 567 00:29:50.089 --> 00:29:52.009 like thinking like what am I going to do like 568 00:29:52.670 --> 00:29:54.890 at this stage I was honestly like psychologically I was 569 00:29:54.930 --> 00:29:57.450 like I don't want to go back down to Manchester 570 00:29:57.470 --> 00:30:00.279 I was like and do what like I'd already got 571 00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:01.920 it in my head. I was like, I'm going home. 572 00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:06.539 I'd just bought a place in Edinburgh. I was like, 573 00:30:07.740 --> 00:30:09.680 I'm going home. I'm going to play football back home 574 00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:14.339 and I'll start again. So I was like, I don't 575 00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:20.049 know what I can do. Eventually, I was humming and 576 00:30:20.089 --> 00:30:24.430 honing about what to do. And at that stage, through 577 00:30:24.470 --> 00:30:28.069 somebody I know, that was where I'd said, well, why don't, 578 00:30:28.730 --> 00:30:30.210 try and speak to Hearts and I'll go on loan 579 00:30:31.490 --> 00:30:33.059 so I reached it didn't have any money I was 580 00:30:33.099 --> 00:30:37.920 like that's fine I'll basically take whatever United will pay 581 00:30:38.380 --> 00:30:40.319 and then whatever you're meant to pay I'll just take 582 00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:43.319 effective wage cut so I took a 40% wage cut 583 00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:46.400 just to come home to go and play at Hearts 584 00:30:47.289 --> 00:30:51.950 and then obviously that didn't go to the other because 585 00:30:52.950 --> 00:30:55.269 the naivety of me was just like I just want 586 00:30:55.289 --> 00:31:00.029 to go like and That's where I think, in terms 587 00:31:00.089 --> 00:31:05.829 of proper advice, proper experience, and I'm going into somewhere 588 00:31:05.849 --> 00:31:10.559 that just was the complete wrong place. Who's the manager there? Levine. Hi, guys. 589 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:13.539 As you probably well know by now, we have signed 590 00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:18.599 up for the London Marathon next April, and we have 591 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:21.880 some fantastic people supporting us, groups supporting us. We're doing 592 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:24.079 it for a fantastic cause, or two causes. Who are 593 00:31:24.099 --> 00:31:24.500 we doing it for? 594 00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:28.890 We're doing it for Headway UK. And the Consilium Sports Foundation. 595 00:31:29.150 --> 00:31:33.119 Yeah, so we're going to have some updated videos of 596 00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:36.440 our progress and our training and everything else it takes 597 00:31:36.539 --> 00:31:39.559 to get us over the line. He's emphasised that time 598 00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:40.259 doesn't matter. 599 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:41.640 It doesn't, not in a marathon. 600 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:45.160 As long as we complete it. There'll be a link 601 00:31:45.299 --> 00:31:49.740 in the bio for any charity donations. We're going to 602 00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:51.599 be raising as much money as we can over the 603 00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:56.059 next period of time. Our training starts very soon. And yeah, 604 00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:58.089 look forward to some updates on here. 605 00:31:58.269 --> 00:32:03.430 Hopefully no injuries. So you're, you know, just total wrong character, 606 00:32:03.450 --> 00:32:07.670 total wrong football. Everyone's wrong about it, but I'm blind 607 00:32:07.710 --> 00:32:10.670 to it. Because all I'm thinking is, going home, going 608 00:32:10.690 --> 00:32:13.380 to go and play. And like, I'm just thinking, I'll 609 00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:15.420 go and play anyway. It's not a problem. 610 00:32:15.700 --> 00:32:18.839 So you're still a lawyer with your kind of agent? 611 00:32:19.220 --> 00:32:19.980 Not really. 612 00:32:20.059 --> 00:32:22.079 No, not at that point. I'm doing it, you know, 613 00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:26.970 effectively myself, you know, um, Which is another thing of, like, 614 00:32:27.309 --> 00:32:29.329 you know, coming through the ranks at United, never had 615 00:32:29.369 --> 00:32:32.400 an agent, never wanted an agent, also almost fearful of 616 00:32:32.410 --> 00:32:36.299 them because the gaffer, like, saying,

like, fucking agents are Satan, 617 00:32:36.500 --> 00:32:38.299 you know, even though my son's one. 618 00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:40.460 I know, I'm going to say that. My son's going 619 00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:41.619 to be a pleasure woman, my boy. 620 00:32:42.059 --> 00:32:44.759 But you got the sort of, you know, the essence 621 00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:47.000 of there are good guys and then there's a lot 622 00:32:47.019 --> 00:32:50.569 of absolute, like, charlatans. So, like, that was just the 623 00:32:50.609 --> 00:32:53.640 feeling of, like, hmm. I didn't want didn't need one 624 00:32:53.660 --> 00:32:56.400 because I'm here on Roy's lot perfect you know I 625 00:32:56.420 --> 00:32:59.059 was like that sorts it but then that's all well 626 00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:01.640 and good until such point is like right now we're 627 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:04.700 going and then it's like so I just basically came 628 00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:06.940 back up the road and I've often said it's the 629 00:33:07.019 --> 00:33:08.859 best thing I could have ever done in terms of 630 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:10.789 like for my life it's the worst thing I could 631 00:33:10.809 --> 00:33:13.009 have done in terms of like football you know I 632 00:33:13.029 --> 00:33:16.490 could have stayed down south and done you know other 633 00:33:16.549 --> 00:33:20.009 things it would have been far better but no best 634 00:33:20.029 --> 00:33:23.599 decision I've ever made for my life so I don't 635 00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.779 regret at all even though it didn't work to begin with. 636 00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:29.660 Yeah so it was just obviously the style of play 637 00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:33.619 and you're saying different characters characters the real conflict of 638 00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:34.819 character totally. 639 00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:36.819 I mean I think we'll all have experienced it at 640 00:33:36.859 --> 00:33:38.839 some point in our career where it just like you 641 00:33:38.859 --> 00:33:42.109 know you're just feels like you're trying to push water 642 00:33:42.130 --> 00:33:45.029 up a hill you know and you're grating and it's 643 00:33:45.049 --> 00:33:49.529 just like I don't understand this like I really don't. 644 00:33:49.369 --> 00:33:52.089 Understand I exactly the same when I came back for 645 00:33:52.250 --> 00:33:57.140 Wolves to Aberdeen with Jimmy Calderwood exactly the same came 646 00:33:57.160 --> 00:33:59.960 back and the right reasons wanted to get back home 647 00:34:00.220 --> 00:34:02.039 and the family and everything else had the chance to 648 00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:07.839 go other places and you just know I lasted eight 649 00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:11.929 months and the boys used to go can't believe you 650 00:34:11.949 --> 00:34:15.170 lasted eight months travelling up to Edinburgh to Aberdeen but 651 00:34:15.309 --> 00:34:19.230 it was just you just know like the personality everything 652 00:34:19.250 --> 00:34:22.090 that we're doing it's no you and it's when you've 653 00:34:22.110 --> 00:34:24.789 been in certain places and worked with different people as well, 654 00:34:25.190 --> 00:34:28.090 and you go to that, you go, you know, do 655 00:34:28.110 --> 00:34:30.699 you bite your tongue when you bit and you don't say, 656 00:34:30.739 --> 00:34:34.059 but then sometimes you're going to explode at some point, 657 00:34:34.179 --> 00:34:35.460 and that's what happens. 658 00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:37.079 Aye, aye. 659 00:34:37.340 --> 00:34:39.380 I mean, there was just, there was a number of 660 00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:41.300 sort of things that just sort of happened along the 661 00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:44.739 road that were just like, but I'm still young at 662 00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:47.079 that point as well, you know, and I'm still like, 663 00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:50.000 it's been, everything's up, up, up, up, up, and then 664 00:34:50.059 --> 00:34:52.110 it's like, and then now I'm doing this and I'm 665 00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:54.389 like going, Jesus Christ, man, I like this. 666 00:34:54.489 --> 00:34:57.829 Your frustration must be getting built there because you've united, 667 00:34:58.170 --> 00:35:00.889 you've been through that kind of period where it's so 668 00:35:00.929 --> 00:35:07.769 exciting and you're progressing quite happily. Then it's plateaued out, 669 00:35:07.849 --> 00:35:10.550 as you describe it. Then you're at forest and it 670 00:35:10.590 --> 00:35:12.289 doesn't quite work and then all of a sudden you're 671 00:35:12.309 --> 00:35:15.150 back home with heart. So where do you get to 672 00:35:15.190 --> 00:35:16.150 your happy place there? 673 00:35:16.309 --> 00:35:20.090 So the Great Island and all that is at the time, though, where, 674 00:35:20.389 --> 00:35:23.260 you know, Like, subconsciously when I was down the road, 675 00:35:23.460 --> 00:35:26.340 like laterally when you, you know, like, I've got other 676 00:35:26.380 --> 00:35:29.099 things that interest me away from football. But when you're young, 677 00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:31.420 you're still sort of learning about stuff. And it got 678 00:35:31.460 --> 00:35:33.420 to a stage where I felt quite sort of suffocated 679 00:35:33.460 --> 00:35:36.179 by it all because everybody you knew was connected to 680 00:35:36.219 --> 00:35:39.070 football in some capacity. Even folk that were like, you know, 681 00:35:39.110 --> 00:35:42.329 really nice people. It may have been like, you know, 682 00:35:42.510 --> 00:35:45.250 the family of your landlady or whatever. They're all nice folk. 683 00:35:45.289 --> 00:35:47.250 And I used to gravitate to them. But I'd still 684 00:35:47.269 --> 00:35:50.849 feel like, I only know them because of football. You know? Whereas, like, 685 00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:55.059 you know, you're at home, you know, a million folk, 686 00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:58.860 none of them were football. And it just, there was 687 00:35:58.900 --> 00:36:02.929 that

side that, so away from the football, I was like, 688 00:36:02.949 --> 00:36:07.070 it was great. You know, everyone like, just the fact 689 00:36:07.110 --> 00:36:08.909 of being able to like, you know, like have a 690 00:36:08.929 --> 00:36:13.269 life away from football. And that definitely was great. But 691 00:36:13.309 --> 00:36:16.550 in terms of the football, it was like, you know, 692 00:36:16.570 --> 00:36:20.389 it was a challenge, it was a battle. And, yeah, 693 00:36:22.099 --> 00:36:23.239 I mean, Christ, I can't say. 694 00:36:23.260 --> 00:36:29.059 Where were you most happiest when you were playing? Probably 695 00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:29.679 at United. 696 00:36:30.019 --> 00:36:31.139 Aye. Aye. At the start. 697 00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:31.519 Aye. 698 00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:33.820 I mean, and don't get me wrong, there was periods of, like, 699 00:36:33.860 --> 00:36:36.940 you know, where I enjoyed it, like, when I was 700 00:36:36.980 --> 00:36:43.510 home as well. But I definitely, you know, there's different 701 00:36:43.989 --> 00:36:47.190 chapters there. I enjoyed elements when I was at home 702 00:36:47.230 --> 00:36:47.489 as well. 703 00:36:48.889 --> 00:36:52.110 So the United stuff was it the quality of football 704 00:36:52.210 --> 00:36:53.889 round about you that you were playing with you were 705 00:36:53.909 --> 00:36:55.969 training with every day you know what it's like you 706 00:36:55.989 --> 00:37:00.280 play with better players it's easier it's easier so there 707 00:37:00.300 --> 00:37:02.400 was I mean coming home there's still loads of great 708 00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:06.460 guys you're playing with there is but there sometimes there's 709 00:37:06.940 --> 00:37:11.260 there would be a level of frustration at certain things 710 00:37:11.300 --> 00:37:13.710 where you just felt like there'd be a few folk 711 00:37:13.730 --> 00:37:16.570 that understood or were on your wavelength but there's some 712 00:37:16.590 --> 00:37:21.650 that you know just like you know just frustration but 713 00:37:22.730 --> 00:37:26.030 I mean somebody was asking the other day about how 714 00:37:26.050 --> 00:37:30.630 did going to Hibs come about and like it was 715 00:37:30.670 --> 00:37:33.210 that I think you know that season at Hearts where 716 00:37:33.530 --> 00:37:37.030 like somebody like Levine it just it took the joy 717 00:37:37.050 --> 00:37:40.469 out of football you know and like I want to 718 00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:41.590 enjoy and. 719 00:37:41.570 --> 00:37:45.460 Play proper football the way I would envisage it and 720 00:37:45.500 --> 00:37:48.420 that just sucked the life out of it And then, 721 00:37:48.619 --> 00:37:52.139 even though he'd left, it really, like, scunnered me. So, 722 00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:55.119 Vlad was coming in, they'd offered me a deal to stay, 723 00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:58.619 but I was like, I didn't enjoy it. And I 724 00:37:58.639 --> 00:37:59.949 was at a stage where I was like, I need 725 00:37:59.969 --> 00:38:03.070 to actually, like, enjoy playing football again. And obviously, Hibs 726 00:38:03.110 --> 00:38:04.570 at the time was mogger. 727 00:38:05.690 --> 00:38:06.389 He played football. 728 00:38:06.610 --> 00:38:08.869 I know latterly, didn't he work at Celtic, but if 729 00:38:08.889 --> 00:38:09.869 you speak to anybody that was. 730 00:38:09.889 --> 00:38:10.969 No, his teams were. 731 00:38:10.989 --> 00:38:12.349 He tried to play the right way, yeah. 732 00:38:12.449 --> 00:38:15.199 Aye, it was a good young team, but he was just, fundamentally, 733 00:38:15.219 --> 00:38:18.599 he was a good person, you know? And... it just 734 00:38:18.619 --> 00:38:20.980 came about, like, obviously they were in Edinburgh as well, 735 00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:23.340 and they were just like, nipping away, just saying, come 736 00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:25.639 and speak, come and speak, so, I think it was 737 00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:26.840 just at the point where I just wanted to go 738 00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:29.300 and talk to somebody on a level that understood or 739 00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:32.170 spoke the same language, you know, and started speaking away, 740 00:38:32.190 --> 00:38:34.250 and I was like, I like that, you know, I 741 00:38:34.250 --> 00:38:37.369 like them, I like that, you know, what they're saying, 742 00:38:37.389 --> 00:38:39.650 and it was a, you know, obviously it was a, 743 00:38:39.849 --> 00:38:41.349 it was a young team, a lot of good players, 744 00:38:41.389 --> 00:38:43.929 but there was folk like Classy as well, good experience guy, 745 00:38:43.969 --> 00:38:49.699 great guy, and, Gaz Caldwell, who's still young, not too 746 00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:52.429 dissimilar age-wise to me as well, but there was just 747 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.119 a lot of good folk. And then I was like, 748 00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:56.940 I need to go and enjoy football. I need to 749 00:38:56.960 --> 00:38:58.280 go and play and enjoy football. 750 00:38:58.300 --> 00:39:00.420 Was there ever the Harts Hips thing with you? 751 00:39:00.619 --> 00:39:02.940 Of course there was. Of course that was there. I mean, 752 00:39:03.019 --> 00:39:05.920 that was the only thing to begin with. It was like, 753 00:39:06.019 --> 00:39:08.780 you know, sort of, aye. But then my old man, 754 00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:13.420 you know, again, I remember him just saying, like, go 755 00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:15.409 and speak to him. You know, so I think when 756 00:39:15.429 --> 00:39:19.219 you get that sort of like validation to say like, 757 00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:22.989 go and speak to him, you know, and it just 758 00:39:23.010 --> 00:39:27.610 took off from there and then really enjoyed, you know 759 00:39:27.650 --> 00:39:29.369 I did, I really enjoyed that, that was that was 760 00:39:29.449 --> 00:39:35.300 good enjoyable football that was definitely and then unfortunately when 761 00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:41.480 Mokka left

your former colleague teammate had come in and 762 00:39:41.659 --> 00:39:45.400 that was that was that was the enjoyable you were 763 00:39:45.420 --> 00:39:49.949 talking about JC John I actually tried to come back 764 00:39:49.989 --> 00:39:51.670 then to Hibs. 765 00:39:51.690 --> 00:39:55.570 Right I put myself out three times I tried to 766 00:39:55.590 --> 00:39:58.190 get to Hibs from Wolves aye from Wolves before I 767 00:39:58.190 --> 00:40:02.440 went to Aberdeen right and J.C. wouldn't take me he 768 00:40:02.460 --> 00:40:06.179 had the wee boy McCann be right back Kevin McCann 769 00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:09.239 Kevin McCann he said no Kevin McCann he's gone into 770 00:40:09.260 --> 00:40:13.500 big things and that was blockies and looking at it 771 00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:16.320 there it's probably I don't think it was probably a 772 00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.579 good thing I didn't go with J.C. I remember it 773 00:40:18.860 --> 00:40:22.019 was like one of the start of the season and 774 00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:25.199 we were playing Hibs at Easter Road and he was 775 00:40:25.219 --> 00:40:29.260 standing there at the tunnel and I went over and 776 00:40:29.510 --> 00:40:32.030 I've digged him one like in his stomach and you 777 00:40:32.050 --> 00:40:34.889 know he's like I said oh you've let yourself go 778 00:40:34.909 --> 00:40:37.250 we were out there dad he's like do it again 779 00:40:38.309 --> 00:40:40.690 he's tensing up I just walked into the. 780 00:40:40.550 --> 00:40:43.809 Road you're talking football wise I think he talks really 781 00:40:43.849 --> 00:40:46.440 well about football I always thought that and obviously he 782 00:40:46.460 --> 00:40:49.269 was a cracking player top class player but it never 783 00:40:49.449 --> 00:40:51.269 worked for you I don't know it wasn't just me 784 00:40:51.710 --> 00:40:53.869 I mean obviously you know I. 785 00:40:53.829 --> 00:40:58.030 Think his thing with John he expects everybody to be 786 00:40:58.110 --> 00:41:01.619 like him like I remember when we were younger at 787 00:41:01.699 --> 00:41:04.699 Celtic we would have a night out and John would 788 00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:07.780 you know he wouldn't or if you were going away 789 00:41:07.820 --> 00:41:11.539 with Scotland or whatever and that was always my impression 790 00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:14.800 everybody should be like him and how. 791 00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:18.460 He trains how he sit ups or press ups or whatever. 792 00:41:18.449 --> 00:41:21.289 I just I mean there was definitely an element of 793 00:41:21.349 --> 00:41:25.690 that but it it just disintegrated you know it was 794 00:41:26.489 --> 00:41:30.329 I just I mean I'm not you know like I'm 795 00:41:30.369 --> 00:41:33.190 not going to sit here and like character assassinate him 796 00:41:33.230 --> 00:41:38.000 but it didn't work I don't think his interpersonal skills 797 00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:41.860 worked don't think they were successful. 798 00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:43.260 And I think. 799 00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:44.969 Who did they have with them there? 800 00:41:45.030 --> 00:41:47.510 I think it was Tommy Craig. And I think it 801 00:41:47.530 --> 00:41:50.510 just basically, like, eventually just grated on folk. And it just, 802 00:41:50.530 --> 00:41:52.409 you know, it was bit by bit, it broke down. 803 00:41:52.429 --> 00:41:56.530 It became quite, you know, accusatory of, like, the players 804 00:41:56.789 --> 00:42:00.110 doing certain things. And boys were like, what? Like, no. 805 00:42:00.710 --> 00:42:02.639 So there was the remnants of what was there, which 806 00:42:02.679 --> 00:42:05.599 was very successful and very good. And that sort of, 807 00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:07.500 you know, took a bit of time to sort of 808 00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:08.300 wash away. 809 00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:08.679 Mm-hmm. 810 00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.840 They obviously won the League Cup when John was there. 811 00:42:13.139 --> 00:42:16.360 And I don't want to undermine what he... But I 812 00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:20.260 view that as... That was Mogger. That was Mogger's team. 813 00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:24.840 And it just disintegrated and fell away. I mean, I'll 814 00:42:24.860 --> 00:42:29.730 give you a quick synopsis. John had come to me 815 00:42:30.110 --> 00:42:33.010 and I just basically had signed one-year deals. I was 816 00:42:33.030 --> 00:42:37.449 there for two seasons with one-year deals. And he was 817 00:42:37.469 --> 00:42:40.539 there the second season and he'd come and said just 818 00:42:40.579 --> 00:42:44.119 prior to sort of January and said like I want 819 00:42:44.139 --> 00:42:47.380 to build the team around you I want to obviously 820 00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:50.320 new deal and I was like hey great and I 821 00:42:50.340 --> 00:42:52.969 was being honest and I said look I'm in no 822 00:42:52.989 --> 00:42:57.110 rush to geographically move I'm settled I'm happy but I 823 00:42:57.150 --> 00:42:59.190 want to basically because at this point I've had you 824 00:42:59.230 --> 00:43:02.269 know getting back into enjoying football I was like I'm 825 00:43:02.289 --> 00:43:04.650 going to take my time and see what's out there 826 00:43:04.989 --> 00:43:09.050 I'm just being my biggest thing is and I think 827 00:43:09.110 --> 00:43:13.579 he's maybe seen and know me enough that, like, I'm 828 00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:16.260 not a bullshitter. I didn't try and play games. I'm 829 00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:19.199 just quite straight. Yeah. To my fault. Because I think 830 00:43:19.219 --> 00:43:21.300 most people think, what the fuck's he up to? What's 831 00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:24.139 he working on? So, I said to him, I says, look, 832 00:43:24.340 --> 00:43:25.780 I'm just being straight with you. I'm not in a 833 00:43:25.820 --> 00:43:30.159 rush to leave. I'm happy, settled where I am, but 834 00:43:30.179 --> 00:43:34.280 I want to, like, just make sure and see what's

available. Right, 835 00:43:34.300 --> 00:43:36.480 but obviously, I want to build a team range, so 836 00:43:36.500 --> 00:43:37.820 I want to, like, you know, you need to give 837 00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:40.199 me an answer. I was like, Look, what I'll do is, 838 00:43:40.489 --> 00:43:43.440 if I speak to anybody, I'll keep you informed. I'll 839 00:43:43.460 --> 00:43:45.760 let you know what's going on. Like, I'm trying to be, like, 840 00:43:45.820 --> 00:43:49.559 as fair as possible. Right, right, right. As soon as 841 00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:55.239 that meeting left, atmosphere changed completely. Within about three weeks, 842 00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:58.079 he dropped me off the team. Like, the whole, it 843 00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:01.329 was just a friction. So I genuinely believe he thought 844 00:44:01.610 --> 00:44:04.690 that I had almost, like, been speaking to people, I 845 00:44:04.929 --> 00:44:07.389 had something lined up, and I was just, like, stringing 846 00:44:07.409 --> 00:44:10.630 him along. Yeah, And I was just being straight. So 847 00:44:10.650 --> 00:44:12.889 then he changed to me. And at the time, this 848 00:44:12.949 --> 00:44:15.099 is where the whole club was falling apart as well. 849 00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:20.039 So there was definitely an atmosphere. I went to speak 850 00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:23.119 to Stoke in January. I said to them, I didn't 851 00:44:23.139 --> 00:44:24.679 want to leave because I want to finish the season 852 00:44:24.699 --> 00:44:29.639 with Hibs and that as well. And obviously, the whole 853 00:44:29.659 --> 00:44:32.949 thing blew up. He tried to position everything on me, 854 00:44:33.409 --> 00:44:36.829 even though it was the whole team. way to speak 855 00:44:36.849 --> 00:44:39.670 to the chairman but it became very comfortable and easy 856 00:44:39.730 --> 00:44:45.190 to be like and I've just I've not got I 857 00:44:45.230 --> 00:44:47.869 just like to try and be straight you know so 858 00:44:47.969 --> 00:44:49.809 yeah go back to it I'm not going to character 859 00:44:49.849 --> 00:44:54.329 assassin him but it didn't like the interpersonal skills did 860 00:44:54.449 --> 00:44:56.889 not work did not work at all and one of 861 00:44:56.929 --> 00:44:58.590 the biggest issues that a lot of folk had as 862 00:44:58.610 --> 00:45:00.989 well was and this was I think flew in the 863 00:45:01.110 --> 00:45:03.480 face of what I think the perception was because a 864 00:45:03.539 --> 00:45:06.639 lot of people thought that John's training techniques were hard 865 00:45:06.739 --> 00:45:11.059 and difficult. Folk were like, we didn't do anything. We 866 00:45:11.079 --> 00:45:13.880 just stretched for about an hour. And it was like, 867 00:45:14.019 --> 00:45:17.360 we're not working hard enough. But the perception in the 868 00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:20.500 public was the exact opposite. We were like, we're not 869 00:45:20.539 --> 00:45:24.519 doing enough. We're not actually doing enough. We're doing a 870 00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:26.380 short bit of that, stretching for an hour. 871 00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:30.239 When it comes to the game, you're not on it. Aye, aye. 872 00:45:30.889 --> 00:45:33.269 So, and at the end of that season, like I knew, obviously, 873 00:45:33.289 --> 00:45:35.010 I was like, I wanted to, well, I wasn't going 874 00:45:35.030 --> 00:45:39.619 to stay. There was a few sort of sniffs. There 875 00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:45.019 was a wee, Gordon was in at Celtic at the time, but, 876 00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:49.099 and John Park, who was at Hibs, had gone to Celtic, 877 00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:51.460 and there was a few Hibs boys had gone, like 878 00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:54.019 wee Deke had gone, big Chris Kelly, remember the striker, 879 00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:57.929 had Kiwi, big Kipper had gone as well, and Gaz 880 00:45:57.949 --> 00:46:01.530 had gone previously. So there was a wee chance of that, 881 00:46:01.889 --> 00:46:06.079 but they were talking about they would need to move on, like, 882 00:46:06.179 --> 00:46:09.239 Big Yarrisick and Graveson. So they were like, we'd need 883 00:46:09.260 --> 00:46:11.659 to get them moved and off the wage bill before. 884 00:46:12.460 --> 00:46:15.280 And they were like, you know, if you can hang 885 00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:18.530 about and wait. And I was like, well, don't know, maybe. 886 00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:22.269 And in between, hearts had come back in, and I 887 00:46:22.309 --> 00:46:24.449 felt like I wanted to go back. You know, I 888 00:46:24.469 --> 00:46:27.550 felt like unfinished business and I wanted to go back. 889 00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:32.579 So I decided to go back to Hearts. And. 890 00:46:33.480 --> 00:46:34.820 Who was back manager then? 891 00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:38.760 Nobody. It was just like this void. You know, it 892 00:46:38.780 --> 00:46:43.659 was still, it was Vlad times. And there effectively wasn't 893 00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:45.739 a manager. It was mental. 894 00:46:45.780 --> 00:46:46.699 Just before Chabba? 895 00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:49.099 It was before Chabba, yeah. It was just before Chabba. 896 00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:50.599 But you were there with Chabba? 897 00:46:50.659 --> 00:46:52.760 Yeah, yeah, I was, aye. And by the way, I 898 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:55.519 really liked Chabba. I really liked him. And he was very, 899 00:46:55.559 --> 00:47:00.969 very good. like could talk like but he was like 900 00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:04.119 Chapa was very good but this was before and it 901 00:47:04.139 --> 00:47:07.119 was just like there was nobody we went away pre-season 902 00:47:07.179 --> 00:47:10.360 and there was like still a lot of the boys 903 00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:14.489 that are you know big very good players on big 904 00:47:14.550 --> 00:47:17.469 big money but there was no manager and they had 905 00:47:17.789 --> 00:47:22.489 there was a sporting director a boy called Karabochka Anatoly 906

00:47:23.179 --> 00:47:25.480 And he didn't want to be the manager because he's 907 00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:27.599 like sort of just been the director of football. 908 00:47:27.619 --> 00:47:28.860 He was effectively taken. Aye. 909 00:47:29.099 --> 00:47:32.059 But then Shaggy, Stevie Frail was like the coach. So 910 00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:35.280 Shaggy was basically like, that's who you're sort of gravitating towards. 911 00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:38.699 And he's going like, I don't fucking know. It was 912 00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:41.800 just this void. And then this boy called Angle, who 913 00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:46.949 was a Bulgarian boy, he sort of was like parachuted 914 00:47:46.989 --> 00:47:48.730 in from nowhere to be like the manager. Didn't he 915 00:47:48.750 --> 00:47:53.949 speak English? Didn't he really? It was like, who's the 916 00:47:53.989 --> 00:47:56.230 manager and then do you remember there was a boy 917 00:47:56.250 --> 00:47:59.190 like I think a year or two previously it was 918 00:47:59.230 --> 00:48:04.110 called Edward Malafief yes right so Malafief he'd been in 919 00:48:04.150 --> 00:48:06.510 charge for like 10 games he lost them all in 920 00:48:06.550 --> 00:48:09.719 a row right but he's like a really big name 921 00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:15.039 back in Russia he was at hearts for a brief 922 00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:18.400 bit right he was an absolute lunatic right and all 923 00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:21.110 the sort of all the liths were petrified of him 924 00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:24.619 he appeared back in pre-season as well. And they were 925 00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:26.920 all just like, oh no, my God. And they were 926 00:48:26.940 --> 00:48:28.639 doing like training and they would do like, they'd just 927 00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:33.030 like play handball and tag and like wheelbarrow races. Remember like, 928 00:48:33.269 --> 00:48:36.710 remember Soccer AM? And there was like the segment of the, 929 00:48:36.829 --> 00:48:40.590 like the Eastern European subs. That was literally what pre-season 930 00:48:40.630 --> 00:48:44.469 was like. And he just used to scream Russian at 931 00:48:44.510 --> 00:48:47.650 the side of the pitch and just be like, this can't, 932 00:48:47.670 --> 00:48:52.699 this can't be. So, When Shaba came in, that was 933 00:48:52.739 --> 00:48:58.039 enjoyable because it was a good team and good manager 934 00:48:58.300 --> 00:49:00.559 and it sort of just like, you know, it clicked 935 00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:02.780 together for that period. 936 00:49:03.139 --> 00:49:05.679 See, before we kind of wrap it up, obviously we're 937 00:49:05.699 --> 00:49:07.739 not even touched on his punditry. 938 00:49:08.340 --> 00:49:08.909 His politics. 939 00:49:09.409 --> 00:49:10.190 His politics. 940 00:49:10.510 --> 00:49:14.929 Maybe for another episode. What do I want to say here? See, 941 00:49:15.210 --> 00:49:18.010 if you had your time again, I think if everybody 942 00:49:18.050 --> 00:49:19.969 had their time again, you know, you talk about your 943 00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:23.000 your parents giving you good advice and stuff and everything 944 00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:25.440 seemed to be going well till that little bit of 945 00:49:25.460 --> 00:49:29.179 uniting stuff would you look back on would you have 946 00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:30.400 done anything differently. 947 00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:32.820 Well I think it goes back to what I was 948 00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:35.230 saying before in terms of like you know I don't 949 00:49:35.289 --> 00:49:39.650 regret anything because, like, I'm happy. I'm happy. No, even then, 950 00:49:39.690 --> 00:49:41.690 because I think, like, you know, if you change something that's, like, 951 00:49:41.710 --> 00:49:44.219 sliding doors, you know, what else changes? So, no, no, 952 00:49:44.300 --> 00:49:47.039 I'm happy with where I am. If I'm looking, you know, 953 00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:50.900 exclusively at my football career, I've never done anything, you know, 954 00:49:51.420 --> 00:49:52.559 for what I feel like I could have. 955 00:49:52.579 --> 00:49:53.219 You could have done. 956 00:49:53.460 --> 00:49:55.659 No, I didn't do anything. I did nothing, you know? 957 00:49:56.340 --> 00:49:59.079 But what could I? I could have done, like, a 958 00:49:59.119 --> 00:49:59.599 load more. 959 00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.519 Do you think, like, maybe the guidance at that point, 960 00:50:04.019 --> 00:50:06.099 that someday... It's huge. Helped me. 961 00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:07.260 Huge. 962 00:50:07.300 --> 00:50:11.510 Because it's... I mean, your way from home, mentally, is 963 00:50:11.820 --> 00:50:12.429 hard enough. 964 00:50:12.550 --> 00:50:12.699 Yeah. 965 00:50:13.239 --> 00:50:16.429 But when everything's going well and you're playing and you're 966 00:50:16.570 --> 00:50:19.610 playing at one of the biggest clubs in the world, it's... 967 00:50:20.349 --> 00:50:20.969 Everything's there. 968 00:50:21.010 --> 00:50:22.070 You're in a bubble. 969 00:50:22.289 --> 00:50:22.449 Yep. 970 00:50:23.510 --> 00:50:26.190 You know, to have somebody there to, you know, put 971 00:50:26.210 --> 00:50:28.530 their arm around you and say, like, here's a wee bit, 972 00:50:28.550 --> 00:50:28.889 so then. 973 00:50:28.909 --> 00:50:31.530 Aye, cool. Handle all the decisions that you make. 974 00:50:31.889 --> 00:50:32.349 Aye, don't worry. 975 00:50:32.369 --> 00:50:37.519 Aye, but you're mentally... That's a lot to kind of... 976 00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:38.400 My football is all mental. 977 00:50:38.659 --> 00:50:41.949 I mean, you're 21, 22-year-old. Like, you know, Chris, you 978 00:50:41.969 --> 00:50:46.349 get to this age now and you think to yourself, like, 979 00:50:46.369 --> 00:50:49.909 for men, your brain's not even fully formed. Yeah. You know, 980 00:50:49.929 --> 00:50:51.449 at that stage. So, like. 981 00:50:52.210 --> 00:50:54.409 And you're making decisions on your career. 982

00:50:54.130 --> 00:50:54.550 At the time. 983 00:50:54.610 --> 00:50:57.369 Totally. So, again, I go back to it because it 984 00:50:57.409 --> 00:51:00.389 is important, like, to recognise that the world's not going 985 00:51:00.409 --> 00:51:03.889 to end like you still have. like enjoy yourself and 986 00:51:03.909 --> 00:51:06.130 have a good life and everything like that. But in 987 00:51:06.170 --> 00:51:09.230 terms of career wise, it was, you know, separate the 988 00:51:09.269 --> 00:51:13.000 two out. This is the most important part, but obviously 989 00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:16.380 like the actual career did nothing in terms of what 990 00:51:16.659 --> 00:51:19.679 I should have, but I don't regret it because I'm happy. 991 00:51:19.599 --> 00:51:23.219 With how everything's ended up where I am. For a reason. 992 00:51:23.780 --> 00:51:26.449 What about management? Did you never fancy that? Well. 993 00:51:27.250 --> 00:51:31.659 Again, not a conscious decision. See, when I came home, 994 00:51:31.699 --> 00:51:34.260 I don't know whether it was a conscious decision either. 995 00:51:34.280 --> 00:51:36.159 It was like subconscious. It was almost like just a 996 00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:38.719 feeling of that sort of like, I need to just 997 00:51:38.739 --> 00:51:43.039 go home just now. And with management, it wasn't a 998 00:51:43.099 --> 00:51:47.039 conscious decision. It was more, I started doing badges, but 999 00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:50.840 those things are like, they take a bit of time. 1000 00:51:50.940 --> 00:51:53.059 You've got to be in the system. You've got to 1001 00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:55.840 go and work somewhere. So while I was doing that, 1002 00:51:55.960 --> 00:52:01.039 I'd started doing some sort of punditry work. And that's now. 1003 00:52:01.059 --> 00:52:02.969 So you just end up starting to do things. And 1004 00:52:03.050 --> 00:52:07.750 very quickly from doing that, it got quite sort of 1005 00:52:07.789 --> 00:52:11.929 apparent that, well, I can keep doing this and do 1006 00:52:12.010 --> 00:52:15.949 a bit more. And then without a great deal of time, 1007 00:52:15.969 --> 00:52:19.880 it was like, well, I quite enjoy this balance. I 1008 00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:22.650 started doing it just purely to... engage your brain otherwise 1009 00:52:22.690 --> 00:52:24.449 you're vegetating you're not doing it so it gives you 1010 00:52:24.469 --> 00:52:26.199 a bit of focus and you can think about things 1011 00:52:26.219 --> 00:52:28.139 and then you're involved in the game and the more 1012 00:52:28.159 --> 00:52:29.780 I think about it the more I think this is 1013 00:52:29.820 --> 00:52:32.719 actually quite good because you've still got like a finger 1014 00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:35.400 on the pulse you're still like getting that feeling for 1015 00:52:35.420 --> 00:52:37.380 the game but you're not having to deal with all 1016 00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:39.380 the shite you're not having to deal with the politics

1017 00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:41.880 of the internal football and I've got a life away 1018 00:52:41.900 --> 00:52:45.449 from football which is ideally what I think I've always 1019 00:52:45.469 --> 00:52:48.469 been trying to manufacture I. 1020 00:52:48.429 --> 00:52:50.639 Was going to say it was less stressful but You've 1021 00:52:50.659 --> 00:52:52.699 managed to get yourself banned for a couple of weeks. 1022 00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:53.440 So maybe it's not. 1023 00:52:53.619 --> 00:52:55.199 Well, there is, I mean, there is degrees. I mean, 1024 00:52:55.219 --> 00:52:57.739 don't get me wrong, there is absolutely. And not just 1025 00:52:57.780 --> 00:53:00.119 for me, it's like, you know, your family around you, 1026 00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:03.320 they've got to deal with, you know, elements of stress 1027 00:53:03.340 --> 00:53:04.019 that come from that. 1028 00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:04.639 Yeah, of course. 1029 00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:10.599 Absolutely. And there's always politics in any industry. But coaching 1030 00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:17.360 and management, it's a fraught business. It is. And it's 24-7. 1031 00:53:17.619 --> 00:53:21.469 Whereas what I do now, I've got time and space 1032 00:53:21.510 --> 00:53:23.710 to be able to, you know, I've got a young family, 1033 00:53:23.730 --> 00:53:27.469 obviously growing up, they're getting older now, but the whole 1034 00:53:27.489 --> 00:53:30.110 time I've been doing this, I've got loads of time 1035 00:53:30.150 --> 00:53:33.360 to be around them. I've got time to be able to, like, 1036 00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:36.519 I like snowboarding. I go to the Alps, like, you know, 1037 00:53:36.800 --> 00:53:39.739 every year. I like going into the, you know, up 1038 00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:43.059 north and, like, just out in the hills. I've got 1039 00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:46.179 time and space to do other things. Because if you're 1040 00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:48.210 in coaching and management, you can't do that. 1041 00:53:48.230 --> 00:53:51.670 You're immersed in it. Well, mate, you've been a great guest. 1042 00:53:51.789 --> 00:53:54.929 We've not even touched on anything else really other than football. 1043 00:53:54.949 --> 00:53:58.369 What we do is we've got recommendations from our previous guest. 1044 00:53:59.289 --> 00:54:01.590 Our previous guest was James Gardner, Comedy James. I don't 1045 00:54:01.610 --> 00:54:02.650 know if you're familiar with him. 1046 00:54:02.750 --> 00:54:03.289 I know of him. 1047 00:54:04.010 --> 00:54:07.989 And he's recommended, so we want a film off you, 1048 00:54:08.460 --> 00:54:11.099 a song and an album. So his film was Heat. 1049 00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:13.940 with De Niro and Pacino. Heat. Heat. 1050 00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:14.289 Aye, aye. 1051 00:54:14.300 --> 00:54:15.289 That's a good film, aye. 1052 00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:16.119 It's a decent film. Aye. 1053 00:54:16.260 --> 00:54:19.429 His song, which I'm not as familiar with, Rain in 1054

00:54:19.469 --> 00:54:21.750 the Summertime, Mike Peters and the Alarm. 1055 00:54:21.769 --> 00:54:25.739 I don't know. I don't know. See, I'm terrible at... 1056 00:54:25.769 --> 00:54:27.650 You're not good at music? No, I mean, I listen 1057 00:54:27.670 --> 00:54:29.349 to loads of music. Are there people who recommend it 1058 00:54:29.369 --> 00:54:31.530 to you? No, but I'm terrible at, you know, like, going, like, 1059 00:54:31.750 --> 00:54:34.539 name that tune and be like, oh, I have no idea. 1060 00:54:34.579 --> 00:54:35.940 It's one of the ones you maybe hear it and 1061 00:54:35.980 --> 00:54:39.079 recognise it. And his album was... It's more of a 1062 00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:41.179 single thing. Future Islands singles. 1063 00:54:41.659 --> 00:54:41.960 Oh, right. 1064 00:54:41.980 --> 00:54:42.539 I don't know that. 1065 00:54:42.579 --> 00:54:44.969 Again, I wasn't too familiar with that. So we're looking 1066 00:54:44.989 --> 00:54:48.030 for a film, a song and an album for our 1067 00:54:48.070 --> 00:54:48.670 next guest. 1068 00:54:50.969 --> 00:54:51.280 Here we go. 1069 00:54:51.289 --> 00:54:53.610 Right. Rather than a song and an album, I'll give 1070 00:54:53.630 --> 00:54:55.570 you a book. Right, okay. I'll give you a book. 1071 00:54:55.849 --> 00:54:58.150 I was just talking about this this morning, actually. So 1072 00:54:58.170 --> 00:55:00.010 this is what I'm going to give you. So have 1073 00:55:00.030 --> 00:55:05.510 you heard of the author Malcolm Gladwell? I haven't. So 1074 00:55:06.010 --> 00:55:06.769 one of his... Are you a reader? 1075 00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:11.820 Audio books I used to I would only read things 1076 00:55:11.900 --> 00:55:14.929 that I was really interested in like the Paul Ferris 1077 00:55:14.989 --> 00:55:20.150 conspiracy things like that or something that's real I'm no into. 1078 00:55:19.849 --> 00:55:25.650 Like fiction go on Malcolm Gladwell he's done a number 1079 00:55:25.690 --> 00:55:27.159 of books one of them one of his first ones 1080 00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:29.179 was like Tipping Point and it was all about like 1081 00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:33.099 how phenomenons become phenomenons so an idea what is the 1082 00:55:33.139 --> 00:55:35.179 tipping point that explodes it right but the one I 1083 00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:38.059 was talking about this morning was, it's called David and Goliath. 1084 00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:43.309 It's all about the underdog and how things that happen 1085 00:55:43.329 --> 00:55:48.429 to people or things like an ailment or something, but 1086 00:55:48.570 --> 00:55:52.510 there's positive benefits that come from it. For example, like 1087 00:55:52.789 --> 00:55:57.789 Jackie Stewart, heavily dyslexic, cannae read, but hyper-focused and understanding 1088 00:55:57.829 --> 00:55:59.889 on the mechanics of a car. So the way that 1089 00:55:59.909 --> 00:56:03.320 the brain functions is a little bit different. Inger Kamper, 1090 00:56:03.340 --> 00:56:07.789 who set up IKEA, Same thing, Richard Branson. So, Engler Camper, 1091 00:56:07.809 --> 00:56:13.070 when he was setting up IKEA, he basically went to Poland, 1092 00:56:13.110 --> 00:56:15.670 which was behind Iron Curtain at the time, and got 1093 00:56:15.849 --> 00:56:18.289 all his wood for the forest there. Cheaper, ship it 1094 00:56:18.329 --> 00:56:20.389 back to Sweden. But when he was doing that, people 1095 00:56:20.409 --> 00:56:23.329 were going, you can't do that. You can't go behind. 1096 00:56:23.570 --> 00:56:26.530 He was like, why? Because his brain thinks differently. So, 1097 00:56:26.550 --> 00:56:29.190 even though you wouldn't want somebody to have that, it's 1098 00:56:29.389 --> 00:56:35.110 actually a positive. So, underdog. even though David and Goliath, 1099 00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:37.659 there are ways of being able to win. Is the 1100 00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:40.260 book called David and Goliath? The book's called David and Goliath. 1101 00:56:40.619 --> 00:56:44.260 And the subheading is about the underdog and the art 1102 00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:48.670 of winning type thing. So there's a book for you. 1103 00:56:49.110 --> 00:56:52.630 And a movie. This is one I really need to 1104 00:56:52.650 --> 00:56:55.449 think about because I like movies. I like documentaries and 1105 00:56:55.469 --> 00:56:58.820 stuff like that. What's a good movie? Heat's a good one, actually. 1106 00:56:58.960 --> 00:56:59.360 Very good. 1107 00:57:04.179 --> 00:57:11.039 Scorsese's top drawer. Donnie Brasco's good. 1108 00:57:11.199 --> 00:57:12.179 Real stuff. 1109 00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:12.840 Departed. 1110 00:57:13.179 --> 00:57:13.760 There we go. 1111 00:57:13.900 --> 00:57:14.539 Departed. 1112 00:57:15.039 --> 00:57:15.239 Yeah. 1113 00:57:15.579 --> 00:57:18.489 There you go. Departed. What else can I give you? 1114 00:57:18.510 --> 00:57:21.670 What are you substituting book for? Either song or album? 1115 00:57:21.849 --> 00:57:27.550 What's your favourite song? I don't really have a. 1116 00:57:27.630 --> 00:57:34.130 Favourite song, but... Album. What can we do? Album. I 1117 00:57:34.150 --> 00:57:39.909 don't want a song. Too many good songs isn't there? 1118 00:57:40.349 --> 00:57:42.690 I was just trying to think what kind of music 1119 00:57:42.710 --> 00:57:44.409 do you think Michael would be? 1120 00:57:45.070 --> 00:57:46.949 I know you try and stereotype people. 1121 00:57:46.989 --> 00:57:48.230 What would you think? 1122 00:57:48.590 --> 00:57:53.610 I don't know. I think he'd be like Blur or something. 1123 00:57:53.699 --> 00:57:54.739 Blur would be good. 1124 00:57:55.239 --> 00:57:55.320 Aye. 1125 00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:59.099 No, there's the other one, the other wee guy, Javis Cocker. 1126 00:57:59.659 --> 00:58:00.500 Pulp? Pulp. 1127 00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:01.340 Nah. 1128 00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:04.949 See, I'm fucking hopeless at music. 1129 00:58:06.489 --> 00:58:08.710 I listen to an eclectic mix of it all, but 1130 00:58:08.730 --> 00:58:10.690 I've got to say, Blur and Pulp. 1131 00:58:11.710 --> 00:58:15.429 Nowhere near. Try it at your age as well. 1132 00:58:15.469 --> 00:58:18.949 We're more our age. We're more our age. Aye, but 1133 00:58:18.969 --> 00:58:21.889 I'm not far off. Oasis was obviously the big thing. 1134 00:58:21.949 --> 00:58:22.539 Normally Oasis were. 1135 00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:24.059 Influenced by our parents. I like a lot of.... 1136 00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:31.940 Jazz and stuff like that as well aye but like 1137 00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:36.639 you know like even like funk jazz like stuff like 1138 00:58:36.659 --> 00:58:39.329 that like jamiroquai and things like that that type of 1139 00:58:39.449 --> 00:58:43.619 yeah that type of stuff jamiroquai is good yeah You 1140 00:58:43.639 --> 00:58:44.179 dressed up. 1141 00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:47.719 As him one time. Aye, was it a party? 1142 00:58:47.739 --> 00:58:49.300 Somebody fought it, didn't you? 1143 00:58:49.460 --> 00:58:51.420 It was Sam's, my missus, 30th, aye. 1144 00:58:51.440 --> 00:58:52.269 30th, was it? 1145 00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:53.480 God, I remember saying 30th. 1146 00:58:53.539 --> 00:58:55.920 I got the hat and the wee body warmer and 1147 00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:56.639 all that jeans. 1148 00:58:57.199 --> 00:58:57.599 JK. JK. 1149 00:58:57.639 --> 00:59:00.929 He didn't have a nose, but he did have a nose. 1150 00:59:01.489 --> 00:59:02.329 A bit slimmer then. 1151 00:59:02.769 --> 00:59:04.610 Mate, he's an album. Do you mind if I? There 1152 00:59:04.630 --> 00:59:05.969 you go, aye. Go with that. 1153 00:59:06.329 --> 00:59:08.429 Mate, you've been a great guest. Thanks for coming on. 1154 00:59:08.449 --> 00:59:09.150 Cheers, mate. Cheers, guys. 1155 00:59:09.170 --> 00:59:09.909 Thank you so much.