บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ A Conversation with 1st CD Democratic Nominee Cliff Johnson

Colom or other people who are running for office can impact things. I'm a firm believer in the power of each of us as individuals. jim newman: One of the things that I was really impressed by when we talked to former Senator Trent Lott, he made the comment we well, we'd we'd been talking about the balanced budget that Bill Clinton and and Senator Lott got passed and it's the only b balanced budget we've ever had since nineteen sixty eight, I guess. But he made the comment that a lot of times he would just cross the aisle and sit down next to one of the Democrats and just have a conversation. And just one on one. and generally would finish up, he said, by saying, Who else do you think I should talk to? Is that what you're going to do? Cliff Johnson: Yeah, you know, and not only do I talk about that in describing what I'm gonna do, but I talk about it with my students an awful lot, and that is this notion that you you have to stay in the room is the way I put it. You have to stay in the room with people who disagree with you. I I taught my children, you know, not to vilify everyone who disagrees with you, that you'll miss out on rich friendships and opportunities. And so I've always had friends who disagree with me. And I like the playful banter that you get with somebody like Senator Lott or or, you know, others who who are willing to engage. And I think it's good for you. And I think, Jim, it's it's one of the things I worry about as far as muscles that have atrophied in the in recent years. And and that's the the muscles it requires to be together in a room to disagree respectfully and professionally. To have a fight sometimes if you have to fight. This happens with lawyers sometimes, right? And then afterward you ask, you know, how's your mama doing? And are your kids still okay? And and and there's there's I think there's r it's really important, it's been it's been good for me, this campaign, to be around people with whom I disagree and to and to have conversations with you know, with people who are who are pushing back a little bit on me. But I think I think it's intentional. And I think one of the things that's important about that is, you know, Senator Lott's description of being the person who takes the step across the aisle. Right. I think we can't be passive. If we believe in that, that means that we have to step out and step forward and and seek out those opportunities. And I'll do that. And I do think it's important. And and you know, one of the things I've said too, Jim, throughout this campaign is. You know, I'm a first-time candidate at age I started at fifty-eight, now fifty-nine. I am very clear-eyed about the priorities here. And the priorities start with local folks in North Mississippi. I I sue the state of Mississippi and try to reform systems in Mississippi, not because I hate Mississippi, because I love this hot mess of a place. I mean, I deep you David Olds: Yeah. Cliff Johnson: know, I dearly, deeply love this place. And

we're a mess, and we know that. And I think it's part of what we all love about it. And Mississippi comes first. And so I was at a fundraiser and Jamie Raskin was there from from Maryland, right? And and Congressman Raskin fought alongside Benny Thompson in the January 6th hearings. But I said in front of him, I said, look, it you know, when I get to Congress, if Jamie Raskin is trying to grab too much money for already wealthy Montgomery County, Maryland, to the expense of Saltella or Iuka or Hernando, I'll fight Jamie Raskin, right? It's this willingness to know people, have a relationship with them and and be willing to and able to disagree with them and and maintain connection and relationships. That's work. It's easier not to do that, but I think it's something worth investing in. jim newman: It's it's what makes the world go round. And if you're not part of it, you're left. Cliff Johnson: Yeah, I think that's right. And I think I think it's it's an interesting jim newman: Yeah. Cliff Johnson: conversation to have with twenty somethings who I'm really optimistic about. You know, there's a lot of folks who want to run jim newman: Yeah. Cliff Johnson: these young folks down. I do not. I think they're smart and I think they're I think they're thinking a lot about the future and engaged. But I think part of what we want to encourage them to do, I do, now that I'm, you know, the older guy giving advice, whether they ask for it or not, i is just that, Jim. It's like, you know, stay hang in there, stay in that room. Go to the meeting that's the club that doesn't represent your thoughts but represents the other side of the argument and listen. You know, be willing to listen. jim newman: For just just to kind of you David mentioned that you were running in the f for the first C D and your opponent is Trent Kelly. But just to for our o listening audience, the counties that are included essentially are the northeast twenty one counties of Mississippi. So you've got from the Tennessee border down to gosh, Monroe and Cliff Johnson: Lowndes Clay jim newman: Quite, yeah. Cliff Johnson: all the way over to Tishamingo in the corner, and seven hundred and fifty-three thousand people in ten thousand square miles. This is what's interesting. Those congressional districts in Manhattan are 10 square miles. Ours are 10 mine's 10,000. It only averages 75 people per square mile. So it's not easy to get that message out. jim newman: Well, you could have David Olds: Mm-hmm. jim newman: Benny Thompson's problem. Tennessee to Cliff Johnson: Whoa. jim newman: the to Have you got ten thousand miles on your car yet? Cliff Johnson: Stay tuned. I d I I definitely do, my man. and then some. and then some. jim newman: David, you're awfully quiet. David Olds: No, I'm I'm I'm listening and learning and making notes, Cliff, one of the things that you mentioned, you're talking about the criminality of the poor. Would you tell us more about that? Cliff Johnson: Criminalization of poverty. Yeah. So we look at situations, David, where people who commit the same offense, same facts, come out worse because they don't have money, right? And so that throws you into conversations about things like our public defender system, right? Eighty-five percent of people in the criminal legal system are gonna need a public defender. Lawyers are expensive, right? And they They rely on people in most counties in Mississippi, seventy-six counties in Mississippi are doing this part-time, who have their own private practice, have other things going on. And Mississippi is one of only five states in the country without a statewide public defender system where there are real challenges around the independence of our public defenders, the caseloads, the resources, oversight. So, you know, that's an example where you know, whether you can hire a private lawyer or public defender in in some cases really has an impact on outcomes because of the workload public defenders are dealing with and other challenges. You have situations where simple things like going to justice court or municipal court and you get a fine on a misdemeanor or a traffic offense, but you can't pay it, right? Because most sixty plus percent of Mississippi don't have a thousand dollars, thirty-eight percent of Mississippians don't have a penny in savings. So if you get a five hundred dollar fine, there's no way. And and and then if those add up over time, a thousand, fifteen hundred for a lot of us, you know, asking for fifteen hundred, you might as well ask for fifteen million. I just ain't got it. And what we have seen for years is judges around Mississippi locking people up, putting them in jail solely because they don't have the money to pay a misdemeanor fine or a traffic fine. And we have sued a number of cities and courts around that practice. And then you have something like bail, right? You're charged with a crime. The court imposes money bail as a requirement for release, even though the presumption, of course, is that you are innocent. Bail is supposed to be the exception if you're a flight risk or a danger to the community. But in Mississippi, we impose money bail in every felony case, 99% of felony cases. So what happens, David and Jim, right? People with money pay up. pay the bail bondsman or pay the cash and get it back at the end of the case if they pay it into the court. Never get it back if they pay a bail bondsman, by the way, the ten percent. And people, jim newman: Mm-hmm. Cliff Johnson: you know, and and they go home and wait for their trials while people who are poor are stuck in jail for months or years while they wait for the process to work out. All just because they're poor. So we're challenging jim newman: But if Cliff Johnson: those jim newman: but if you commit a felony, what is what is the guarantee that the state has that you'll even show up for court? Cliff Johnson: Well, the the the what you look at, the factors you look at is is this a person

who's ever been involved in the criminal legal system before? Do they have a history of not showing up? D you know, you can you can put limitations on what people do, you can put limitations on their travel, but Jim, I think the the question is better framed in what evidence does a court have that you won't, right? If we take the presumption of innocence seriously, which we must. We say we do, right? 'Cause 'cause all jim newman: Mm. Cliff Johnson: you have is a charging document from a police officer when you first get arrested. And many times the facts turn out to be different and the charges are not ultimately felony charges, they're misdemeanor charges. So we have innocent people in those jails. Everybody in those jails is innocent, right? Prior t to a jury trial. And the question is, what justification do we have for detaining innocent people? in America prior to a conviction. So we have ankle monitors, we have ways of tracking people, but the notion of you have to buy your liberty simply because you've been charged with a crime is upside down and backwards. David Olds: Wow, very yeah, very interesting. n jim newman: Just different. David Olds: and to be quite honest, I know I've never thought about that. I've never thought about it that way. jim newman: Well then not not disagreeing with you, because I I I do, but it seems like the justice system, most of the people that I read about who have committed murders or attempted murder or some heinous crime have got at least two or three previous convictions and are out on bond. Cliff Johnson: Right. And so the the question for all of us, right, is do we take the presumption of innocence seriously? And if the answer is we want to err on the the side of public safety over the presumption of innocence, then we can lock everybody up until their trial and never let anyone out. We'll have to build more jails, right? But but you know, if somebody, Jim, is already out on another bond and then they get arrested again, they those people aren't even eligible. For release. There is a lot of people who who are not going to be released because of the seriousness of the charge or because of history of violence. Those stories that you're talking about where people are out on a bond who are accused of murder or attempted murder often aren't the cases where people have long criminal histories. And and have a you know, there's a real sense that they might hurt somebody. Those are the stories that make the news because the the tough on crime crowd, rather than what I would call smart on crime crowd, likes to seize on those, right? And they wanna you know they want to point out a situation where somebody was released. But but there are very few cases where you're not eligible for bond. Now, in Mississippi have thousands and thousands of people who stay in jail pretrial. And Mississippi gym is a place where there's no time limit on how long you can be held post-arrest, pre-indictment. So the DA decides, you know, if

if he or she wants to wait three years to bring an indictment, that happens all the time in Mississippi. You you sometimes serve more time pre indictment than you would serve if you get convicted of the underlying charge. So we have to figure out where the balance lies. For some people, their view is we can't jim newman: Yeah. Cliff Johnson: risk it. I don't want any of these people out on the street, and I want more people held. For other people, they come down on the side that says we don't assume guilt, we assume innocence, we don't assume the police officer is correct. We make them prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And the one thing everybody agrees on, of course, is we all want to be safe. We wanna have safe communities. We don't want to put our loved ones and our neighbors at risk. So, you know, it's a serious conversation that I think comes from a place where people who advocate my position certainly agree that public safety has to be of utmost concern. David Olds: Let's talk a little bit about your platform. what's the number one thing on your list? Cliff Johnson: Working folks. Regular folks, David Olds: Okay, talk to us about that. Cliff Johnson: regular folks who just right are living in a world where they've been promised for a long time that folks were going to take them seriously. They were going to think about the challenges they have making ends meet, not unrelated, David, to the issues we've talked about before. People who just don't have it, whether it's have it to pay a fine in the municipal court and wind up going to jail because they're poor. Whether it's they don't have it because you go buy two of those little plastic bags of groceries at Kroger and you come out and it's eighty dollars somehow and you don't know what just happened to you, because of insurance cost, electricity costs, because of tariffs, taxes that have occurred during the Trump administration. But we have to we have to focus on the reality, economic reality of working folks in North Mississippi who just can't make the math work. And David, those are Republicans, independents, Democrats alike who are struggling. So we've got this, you know, HB one so-called big beautiful bill that we still haven't felt all the implications of yet that we have to fight back against. So that's that's one. The second thing is we've got to deal with a corrupt system, you know, that's a rigged system where, you know, the president making billions with a B, he and his family where corporations have disproportionate impact. You know, my opponent, Congressman Kelly, half his money, campaign money comes from corporations, nearly three million dollars. and the influence that those people have in Congress, Congress, members of Congress trading individual stocks, becoming becoming lobbyists the minute they walk out of Congress and getting rich. People don't like people don't like that. And and then we've, you we've course post Post the Supreme Court Calais opinion, David, we really have to protect fundamental rights, including the right to vote. people there's a lot of folks out there who are are at risk of being gerrymandered out of out of their voice. And and that's a that's a serious concern. We're gonna have to revisit, I think, the Voting Rights Act. I think Dave, when you're talking about these issues of economic opportunity, you know, it it it's one of the areas I think where we have serious opportunities and challenges to reach across the aisle to our earlier conversation, where you know the question becomes w you know whether Folks who don't traditionally vote Democratic will recognize that Democratic candidates, the Democratic Party is focused on working folks in a different way and can pull the lever for a Democrat when they've said that you know they think they never can because of some other, you know, social issues that have been, you know, in the forefront of politics. So I I think I think this is a very interesting cycle. Because I think a lot of those folks who are hurting are our Republican brothers and sisters. And the question is, can you now, based on the fact that what President Trump promised didn't come to pass, can you now make change and elect people who are committed to reversing the impacts of these of these policies that are that are hurting our regular working folks here in Mississippi? David Olds: When you talk about voter suppression, tell us a little bit more about that. What what what I hear, what what a lot of us hear what we see is what's the big deal with having I mean, just showing an ID, you know, showing your driver's license, you know, what's the big deal? Cliff Johnson: Yeah, and so there are two things going on. There's the question of partisan gerrymandering that was the Calais opinion, and that was, you know, whether or not race still has any function in considerations of how we draw our our districts. Then there's the question you raised, David, about suppression, voter ID, voter integrity. And I think the first place you have to start on that conversation is there's just no evidence. To support the claim that there's some sort of widespread voter fraud. That that statement gets made a lot with certainty, and it's just not true. Right? So we're we're solving for a problem that doesn't exist. But but look, I mean the the the the question of what's the problem with having an ID, what's the problem with making sure that the voter rolls are accurate? You know, nobody is nobody's trying to undermine the integrity of elections or allow people to vote multiple times or people to vote who aren't eligible. The question becomes in the same way we ask how seriously do we take the presumption of innocence is how committed are we that every person has a right to vote? One person, one vote. It's part of what makes us great as a country. And And if you're going to require things like an ID, then who can attain an ID easily? Who can access that? How do you access it? What are the barriers to

the requirements that exist that you impose on voters? And and we know that disproportionately, you know, again, poor folks, rural folks, folks who are older are impacted by Requirements like this. So do we all want integrity in our election? Absolutely. Is there evidence that we haven't had it, that there's been widespread fraud? Absolutely not. There's just no evidence of that. So what happens is you scare people and you say you're gonna have agents there, you're gonna have federal agents at polling places in Mississippi. And now everybody who owes the furniture store money and is behind or owes the court some fines. Or has any sort of other issue out there that they they think, you know, the phone with electric bills been unpaid for a while, they get worried about they're gonna be, you know, they're gonna be hassled. There's gonna be problems, that they're, you know, somebody who is a documented immigrant but just doesn't want the hassle and their last name is Gonzalez, just says, you know, golly, if this is how this is gonna go down, I'm just gonna skip it. Right. And then and then you have then you have the kind of suppression that impacts outcomes. and changes elections. and I'm you know, I'm worried about that because just the threat of it, just the threat of it, David, keeps people at home. And and I think we, you know, we want to hear from as many people as possible. And voter turnout's been a huge problem in Mississippi and beyond. Folks ain't voting, right? And I think and I think that makes us weaker as a country and as a state. And I think people need to take that right very seriously or they may soon w wake up and realize that they have far less impact and influence than they once did. jim newman: What along David Olds: Thank you for that. jim newman: along with that, there's been thought or Trump has spoken about having ICE agents or federal agents at voting precincts. And apparently they had half a dozen or so up in Michigan. What is your opinion of ICE as an immigration tool? Cliff Johnson: Yeah, you know, it's it's this ver this version of ICE that we're seeing now where, you know, that w you know, we saw last year and that has continued, this very aggressive militarized force that comes in with masks, that's been engaged in violence, that does these aggressive sweeps. I don't think people like the optics of that or the reality of that, right? I I the notion that we would have secure borders and that that's a that's important. Of course it is. We can't have open borders, and I don't I don't talk to many serious people who think that we can. if you have laws, should you enforce them? Sure. You have to exercise discretion as always the case, but yes, you have to have people to enforce it. This militarized, poorly trained, aggressive version of ICE that we see now, I don't think that's what people h had in mind. You know, you know, Jim, I remember specifically those debates. when in Trump was running in twenty-four about the type of people who were going to be detained, right? We're gonna be murderers and rapists. And then he takes office and announces that every immigrant is a criminal because they're undocumented and and and because they came here without approval. And I not only do I not like that bait and switch, but I think there's a lot of Republicans Who know these people, who know them from their local communities, who work alongside them, who admire what they've done for their families, the fact that they go to work every day, they go to mass, they send money back home to wherever they came from. They didn't think this is what was gonna happen. And then to see this force, this ice meted out and turned loose on jim newman: Yeah. Cliff Johnson: people we know and we've known for a decade. across North Mississippi, working in these furniture factories and working in all these condos are being built in Oxford and houses. all that shuts down if these folks go away. People know it and it's not what they were promised. It's not what they were told. So I've got grave concerns about it, deeply troubled by this version of ICE. jim newman: One of the interesting things that actually brought me to tears last night was on the NBC News at the end of the broadcast, there was a young man from Rio de Janeiro. I don't know if you saw it, but he Cliff Johnson: I didn't. jim newman: he lived in the wrong part of Rio Cliff Johnson: Yep. jim newman: and left, came to the United States, as a teenage as I think he was maybe a barely a teenager, but the long and short of it was he got a job at Wendy's, wanted to go to college, couldn't make it on a Wendy's payroll, and the Wendy's management said, We got your back, you make the grades. And he's going to Yale. Cliff Johnson: Yeah, that's amazing. jim newman: If that's David Olds: Wow. jim newman: not the American story, I don't know what is. And when I saw that, I wanted to cry. Cliff Johnson: Yeah, and I think that's who we are, right, Jim? I mean, I th I jim newman: Yes. Cliff Johnson: think that's who we are. And I s and you're not the only one who wants to cry when they see those stories. It is so much the American story. And and you know, I we think we see those images of people coming through Ellis Island looking for a better way, looking for hope. Our grandparents and great grandparents, and it makes us proud of To be a part of this country. And we used to embrace this idea of the melting pot, and that was good news, right? Like, look at us, look at our diverse selves and how we all come together. And somehow that's been turned into something dirty and something wrong and something sinister by certain people. And President Trump is the main offender. And that kind of xenophobia leads to very dangerous things. It's bad for us, it's beneath us. We're better than that. And for all the church folks out there, you know, there's all kinds of texts, like, you know, show kindness to the strangers in your land because you yourselves are

once strangers in the land of Egypt, right? Like be careful out there. there's there's some gospel stuff that is inconsistent with the notion of of these big aggressive, violent ice sweeps against people who would just want something better. Yes, yes, we have to control our borders. Nobody disagrees on that. What we're doing is beneath us. jim newman: How about gun control? How about the Second Amendment? What do you think? Cliff Johnson: Look, I mean I I have I have guns at my house. I inherited my pap papa, James Clifton Johnson the first. I have couple guns that he had, huh? jim newman: You know a flint lock? Does he did he have a flintlock? Cliff Johnson: No, they did not have no. But but you know, I I think that people in Mississippi recognize that, you know, guns are part of our lives in in when it comes to hunting, generational connections people have, that and I think people I hope people realize that there's not been any big effort to come in and take that away. What I what we know what I know as a civil rights lawyer and someone who's done criminal defense work, right, is where you run into big problems is when you've have young people, disproportionately young people with semi automatic weapons that are altered to be automatic weapons. We're not talking about, you know, nobody's getting in fight in the playground anymore, right? And and they're now we're not just talking about carrying a thirty eight special. We have kids who have access to military grade weapons who are wreaking havoc. And, you know, I I have found it difficult to understand why we don't want to make sure that we know who has these weapons, why they have these weapons, what's their background, and we have a and we cause people to to take a beat or three or four. before they are able to access those weapons and they can't buy them in the heat of any moment. So, you know, n obviously jim newman: Yeah. Cliff Johnson: support the Second Amendment, also support limits on who can get guns and and very much supportive of background checks and regulation of these high power weapons that that are now moving through the streets. makes me makes me nervous because you know we represented a ton of young people, Jim, who who committed homicide offenses and juvenile life without parole cases. And what we know is young men in particular, our brains come in slow, right? Like we don't our brains not fully functional until we're about twenty seven. And ever all the women who dated us will tell well, you know, will will will tell us that. And it's true. David Olds: Ha ha. Cliff Johnson: It's absolutely true. And so what happens when your brain is slick as a cue ball, doesn't have a wrinkle in it, is you behave impulsively. You don't control your actions in the same way. And so we would see kids who had access to weapons, who had access to big guns, who behaved impulsively. And if they'd just gotten in a fight, you know, that'd be one thing, but they wound up killing somebody and at 14, 15, 16. They go to prison for the rest of their lives because they because they were involved with gunplay and not a fight on the playground. Serious problem. Serious problem. jim newman: There's a big article in this morning's Daily Journal about the foster care program in Mississippi. not that it's a national issue, but I suspect that it is. It seems like Mississippi matched twenty two of the hundred and seven requirements for foster care. And I don't think that's a very good record, but and I don't know all the ins and outs of it. But Is there a place for the Cliff Johnson: Yeah, it's a question of jim newman: yeah, is is there a place for the federal government to be involved in things like this that seem to be states issues, but states aren't doing the job, so the federal government will step in and create some Cliff Johnson: Yeah. I think we've recognized that for a very long time, right? I mean, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, you know, we have programs that that recognize that the state of Mississippi doesn't have the capacity to fund the retirement for all of its three million citizens without help. And so for those with a you know of us who who focus on basic human rights and certainly the Ability to care for children. We've been under that Olivia Y consent decree around our foster care system for years and years and years. And and so when you think about what is the role of government, the federal government, part of that is to step in in those places where the government can promote. jim newman: Yeah. Cliff Johnson: Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right? Where there's the opportunity for us to on a large scale ensure that our citizens have their most basic needs met. That is not to say that everybody is going to be able to have everything they want provided by the government. And again, I don't run into many serious people who take that position. But to But collectively, we have the ability to step in to dire situations where people's lives really are at stake. And I think if the federal government fails to step in there, it's a it's a real shows a real lack of leadership, vision, and compassion. And we've made, I think, Jim and David, I don't know what y'all think, but we've made that. kind of historic effort coming out of the New Deal where the government does jim newman: Yeah, you know. Cliff Johnson: step in to provide help and assistance and programs. When it when it's focused on poor folks, it's bad news. When it's a bailout for big corporations or it's tax breaks, tax cuts for the wealthy, when it's welfare for the upper class, we think that's we we put that in the category of economic development. are good business and but but government assistance is government assistance and the question is who do we want to focus on? For me in my house, as I said at the top of the show, I want to focus on working folks, regular folks who are having struggle, you know, hard time making it. And goodness knows that includes

our babies who are in the foster care system. jim newman: Another issue that Mississippi faces, of course, is Healthcare and let's see, Trump or I I keep saying Trump. The administration, which is kind of an all inclusive term, but it's pretty much the heads that he departments that he's appointed. they want to do away with the subsidies that came in under COVID for Part D, which will probably take, I don't know, a hundred thousand plus Mississippians off of the that. It will raise health care insurance premium costs for Medicare and Medicaid and then when it finally gets done we'll have more hospital closures. At what point at what point does the government step in and support hospitals? Or is that an Cliff Johnson: Yeah. jim newman: option? Cliff Johnson: Well, I I mean I jim newman: Okay. Cliff Johnson: yeah, I think that I think now, I mean, I think w we can't wait, right? We think we talk about how rural our district is, right? How rural Mississippi is. And I jim newman: Right. Cliff Johnson: know from my parents living in Tylertown, right? Walthall General, you might not wanna have brain surgery at Walthall General. But let me tell you what, if you have a stroke, heart attack, an automobile accident, and you have the ability to be stabilized at Walthall General. before you go on to Macomb or Hattiesburg, you know, you're mighty glad to have it there and you want that access. Or if you know, if Mama needs to be in a swing bed, it makes a huge difference if she can be in the local community where you can see her and tend to her and love on her, as opposed to everybody having to go off to Jackson or Memphis if you live in North Mississippi, or Tupelo if you live, you know, down Lowndes County, or in the Delta. So I mean it it it is it's the reality in Mississippi that there is help that's actually available where the government tried to step in with the opportunity for Medicaid expansion and we just rejected it. there's opportunities to feed 320,000 children this summer, right? With funds for kids who get free and reduced lunch during the school year to make sure they're okay in the summer. Thirty-eight million dollars. Mississippi said no to it, right? It's a it's a it's this it's this Notion that if it comes from the government, it's bad. It's this notion that people somehow need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and that people don't want to work. And there's all this maligning of people who struggle and making claims that they don't want to do better and they are somehow. addicted to government assistance that I find to be untrue and unkind. And I think, Jim, the time for stepping in and making sure those hospitals stay open is is right now. That's why we've got to elect Democrats in November who will stand up to the Trump administration and turn that big, beautiful bill, as they call it, around. And look, No, Republicans aren't gonna do it because we we've seen what happens to Republicans who step out of line with President Trump,

right? They get massied, right? I mean, somebody comes in. This is the problem that Trent Kelly has. Trent Kelly understands that if he steps out of line with President Trump, he's scared to death that he's not gonna get a chairmanship of committee. There's retribution, right? There's consequences. He's not gonna he's gonna have a primary opponent next time. And so he's voted one hundred percent of the time with the president in Trump two point zero because like so many other Republicans, they don't want to make him mad. And and that's why when it comes to keeping rural hospitals open, providing access to health care, voting rights, these basic fundamental needs, right now it's the Democrats who are in a position to provide those things because we'll stand up against President Trump. It's it's a it's a critical time. November third is so you know, so important because of because of where we are on very basic issues like David Olds: As we kind of close in on all of this and bring it all together, Cliff, why should voters choose Cliff Johnson? Cliff Johnson: Yeah, I you know, I think again, I think voters need to understand that I want to do this at age fifty-nine as a first time candidate, not because it's my goal to build a twenty-year political career, become the president of the United States. I I have spent a career standing up for regular folks, standing up to power, and now is a time where More than ever, I think we need people who have a proven track record of doing that, know how to do it. And we need, goodness knows, we need in Mississippi people who will do that on behalf of Mississippians first. I have been very clear and I wanna I wanna repeat it in saying that when I say I'll stand up to bullies, that doesn't just mean Donald Trump and J.D. Vance, it doesn't just mean Republicans. If it's not good for North Mississippi, I'm gonna fight it. And there can be situations, y'all, we know this, where within the Democratic Party, when there's limited resources being spread around, that we get shortchanged. And we need folks in those rooms who will fight Democratic fat cats as well. And I think if if you know if people want a strong, independent voice who will stand up for working folks, then they should. support me. I don't take corporate PAC money. I've committed to that and that's made it a lot harder. I've had to get all my contributions from individuals and I have pledged not to trade individual stocks. I've pledged that I will not become a lobbyist. I'm not going to stay up there until I'm, you know, 90 years old. You know, my my my expectation is that you go up there and you you do three good terms And you turn it over to somebody who's young and eager, and you go up there and fight like hell at a time when we need fighters and you don't stay forever. And so I think I think there are people who want it. The question, David, I think, is that D beside my name, when people show up at the polls on November 3rd, the question for a lot of people is, can they support a Democrat? And and what I would say to them in in all seriousness is. We don't have to agree, I believe, on every single issue to agree on the most important things. And the fact that we have so many folks herding and and so much work to do around economic fairness, economic opportunity, and just giving people a shot and relief, I think is all the reason someone needs to send me to DC and let me fight for that. Because what we have now, David, isn't working, and that's not the focus of the guy we have in the in the first district right now. David Olds: Understood. Jim, you got any closing remarks for us? jim newman: well, yes, I do. These podcasts are not free. Somebody has to pay for we are a five one C three, so contributions to support these broadcasts are a tax deduction. And we think it's important that the public hear from so many different people about all the different issues. And have an opportunity not to hear David's opinion or my opinion, but hear the other individual's opinion because that's the only way you're gonna get any any intelligence. Not that David and I aren't smart, but you don't need to listen to us. Need to listen to the person that sees David Olds: Just smart aleck jim newman: well, of course. We need to listen to the person we're interviewing because that's the whole point of the the the operation. So if you've got any extra funds, and I know it's hard to make ends meet every month, but if by chance somebody's got some extra money out there, we would appreciate a small donation. And David can tell you how to do it. David Olds: Absolutely. yes, we do excuse me. Yes, we do need donations. Yes, we do want your support. Yes, we do want to hear from you. As far as donations, you can make Cash App, The dollar sign Mississippi Happenings or PayPal, which is the at sign. Mississippi happenings. So and please our email contact us it's MS Happenings one at gmail dot com. and also you can leave your comments on where you subscribe, especially YouTube. YouTube. So Cliff, once again, thank you so much. It's great to see you. good luck and You what you got a hundred days, ninety days, you count Cliff Johnson: Less than ninety. We're down to like eighty seven. It's it's it's closing in. David Olds: Good luck and we do appreciate it. And as always, may we indifferent to the suffering of others. Cliff Johnson: Amen. Thanks, guys. David Olds: Thank you.