บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Mission Evolution with Gwilda Wiyaka Interviews - SANDE HART - The Liminal Odyssey

creative spark. So there was 69 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:39.839 no state of compassion before now California is a state 70 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:44.839 of compassion. There was no women's organization that looked anything 71 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:47.800 like us, and now we became the world's largest in 72 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:53.199 you know, grassroots interfaith organization. There was nothing like any 73 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:56.639 of the initiatives that I have ever you know, brought 74 00:04:56.680 --> 00:05:02.639 forth or you know, and door led further. And so 75 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:06.920 I came to realize this that all of that happened 76 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.759 in these spaces, but I didn't have a framework for 77 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:12.240 it until I've heard this word liminal that meant threshold. 78 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:15.800 So I discovered it's really what I'm doing in those 79 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:21.759 spaces in between you know, dilemma and choice, crisis and action, 80 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:26.279 you know. Hearing something that catalyzed me into what am 81 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:29.480 I going to do next with this? I wasn't just 82 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:32.319 happy sitting there and letting it pass by me. So 83 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:39.120 that is that liminal space is what informs me of 84 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:42.639 what the next thing to do. Is slowing down, asking 85 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:46.920 the question what wants to happen here and then doing it. 86 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:54.120 Now, that's fascinating. So how do your roles as a mother, grandmother, author, 87 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:58.079 and community leader shape your perspective on social change? 88 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:02.360 First of all, becoming a changes everything because now you 89 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:05.800 see the world through the lens of how it's impacting 90 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:08.680 my child, how I'm impacting my child, What am I 91 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:12.560 contributing to in the world, Where is my dollar going, 92 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:16.879 Who am I supporting? What corporation am I feeding? You know? 93 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:24.879 And so it changed everything for me at some cellular level. 94 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:28.279 You know, I really didn't really come to understand that 95 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:31.000 until I've been doing this study, which is really more 96 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:34.920 intense in the last five years, and I'm okay, that 97 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:39.519 is what was driving me to always show up into 98 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:45.240 different spaces were my kids? Interfaith? Oh gosh, Well, the 99 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:49.279 beauty of interfaith community building is that you get to 100 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:53.480 learn about all these different traditions and pathways which really 101 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:58.240 do more for deepening the roots of your own tradition 102 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:04.040 and belief system. And so the interfaith, you know, adding that, 103 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:07.600 you know into the mix, you know, into the cauldron 104 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:09.959 that it was stirred up, you know, being a mother 105 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:12.800 and seeing the world to that archetypal understanding of who 106 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:18.240 I was as a mother, and also being becoming to 107 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:22.800 become more connected to the child, to the maiden in me, 108 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:26.920 you know, if you're looking at these archetypal identities of maiden, 109 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:32.879 mother crone, and so these perspectives have changed over the 110 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:36.240 years as I grow into that crone, into that wisdom 111 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:43.560 of being a woman. And so all of these understandings 112 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:50.079 every day evolved my belief system and my fiber and 113 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:53.160 rearrange the DNA every day because I'm learning different things 114 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:54.920 every day. 115 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:56.519 Never a dull moment, then. 116 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:58.879 Huh, never a dull moment. 117 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:02.439 What eded you to create Global Women's Village and how 118 00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:03.279 has it evolved? 119 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:10.360 So the Global Women's Village having trans the reason why 120 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:14.639 it transformed when we knew this is what the name 121 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:20.120 and the destiny of what Sarah would become, that which 122 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:22.000 is the mother of all nations. That's what we called 123 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.439 her Sarah. The spiritual religious lines for hope that you know, 124 00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:27.680 soon after nine to eleven, when we were all convening. 125 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:33.480 And then in twenty twenty three, I found myself back 126 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:35.919 on the Women's Task Force for the Parliament of the 127 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:45.360 World's Religions, which is the world's largest convening of clergy, theologians, seekers, environmentalists, 128 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:50.120 social impact or you know, organizers' safety net organizations, everyone 129 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:56.159 who really could you know, focuses on their highest and 130 00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:00.840 deepest value system to heal our world from whatever perspective. 131 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:04.519 With all these different tracks of programming and workshops four 132 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:10.159 hundred workshops, plenaries, you know, observances of other people's rituals 133 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:16.679 and interactive and engagement and you know, experiences for a 134 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:20.679 whole week, eight to ten thousand people come from eighty 135 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.639 different countries

around the world. It's imagine walking the halls 136 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:30.039 everyone in the regalia and the different languages and just 137 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:34.879 heaven on Earth really. And so having been on the 138 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:37.919 task force before, and also having been to the parliaments 139 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:41.000 because they're every few years, going back to two thousand 140 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:47.240 and nine at Melbourne, Australia's Parliament, I started noticing women 141 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:50.639 and I wasn't alone that women have very little room 142 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:54.360 in that space. Over the course of the week, and 143 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:57.440 then we get this Women's Task force in twenty fifteen, 144 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:04.159 and the the privilege to have forty of those four 145 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:09.039 hundred workshops dedicated to the topic of women, the dignity 146 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:13.960 of women, women's empowerment, women, and you know, impressing culture, 147 00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:19.399 all different ways of conversing on the topic of women. 148 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:24.159 But even that wasn't enough. Come twenty twenty three, I 149 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:27.039 just raised my hand and said, you know, how about 150 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:32.039 we create a space within the Parliament of the world's religions, 151 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:35.639 right in the middle of the world's religions, and call 152 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:41.039 it the Women's Village, and design it for everyone, but 153 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:45.840 by women, in the design of the divine feminine, if 154 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:48.759 you will. We had an earth alter, We had a 155 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:51.559 mother tree. We had a water fountain. We had circles 156 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:54.279 for dialogue, spontaneous dialogues. We had what we call a 157 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:56.200 red tent room where you could go in and close 158 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:58.440 the door and it was a sacred space. Women might 159 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:00.679 just want to sit in silence. We also did a 160 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:03.600 lot of very loud programming in there. We had all 161 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:07.480 kinds of these different fixtures. But women were coming up 162 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:10.120 to us all week and saying, I feel safe here. 163 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:15.840 The era is different. In here. We were solving problems differently, 164 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:19.240 and we were coming up with real critical solutions to 165 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:24.000 real old problems. We were doing this work in a 166 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:27.639 different way in circle. Really, we were doing it differently. 167 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:30.519 Men were coming in and engaging too. It's for men too. 168 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:35.919 Yet when women play on, when women design, when women organize, 169 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:40.600 we have a different way and our solutions are swift 170 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:45.840 and sustainable. And this all came to light and kind 171 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:48.759 of came right into focus while standing in the middle 172 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:53.000 of the Women's Village, and I know what's next for Sarah, 173 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:56.639 And here we became the global women's village, focusing on women, 174 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:59.080 futuring a new paradigm. 175 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:02.960 How did you help cultivate California as a first official 176 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:04.799 compassionate state in the world. 177 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:10.960 Well, long before everything I just shared with you, Compassionate 178 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:16.759 California happened, I was on the volunteer staff of the 179 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:20.720 Charter for Compassion International, which is a global organization that 180 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:25.120 at the time was really focused on creating cities of compassion. 181 00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:30.759 And that means bringing together not only civic leaders, but 182 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:35.799 also social impact organizations and safety net organizations like the 183 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:40.440 food bank and the domestic violence shelters, and youth programming 184 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:45.279 and you know, bringing together the Department of Education and teachers, 185 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:48.960 bringing together grassroots and of course also the interfaith community 186 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:51.679 and all kinds of you know, all the stakeholders of 187 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:55.720 a community. We got together in one room and we said, 188 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:01.240 can we all agree to these four basic, very elegant, 189 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:06.639 very simple paragraphs that are known as the Charter for Compassion, 190 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:10.559 which really reminds us to come down to the golden 191 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:13.879 rule treat others as you treat themselves. But really, how 192 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:17.320 do we solve problems? How do we communicate? How do 193 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:20.200 we build community in a compassionate way? And when it 194 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:24.399 comes from all these different sectors, because we are all interrelated, 195 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:29.000 interconnected and mutually beneficial. When we do solve our problems collectively, 196 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:33.720 then we're not I'm not creating a solution for the 197 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:40.480 environmental community that is wrecking another community. Right, How do 198 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:43.440 we work this out in this room? And that's what 199 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:44.320 a city today. 200 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:46.600 I'm sorry time, We're going to have to take it 201 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:49.759 a station break, Sandy,

and I will return very shortly, 202 00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:53.879 So don't you go away. This is Mission Evolution www. 203 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:56.279 Dot Mission evolution dot org. 204 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:11.080 Are you ready for a tale that will leave you 205 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:13.320 on the edge of your seat? Get ready to dive 206 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:17.360 into the gripping memoir by Bart Sebral titled Moonman. Bart 207 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:20.399 Sebral takes you on a heart pounding journey unmasking the 208 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:24.639 truth behind America's famous Apollo missions. Prepare yourself for hair 209 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:29.080 raising encounters with agents from the US government's top secret agencies. 210 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:34.039 In Moonman, Sibrel fearlessly reveals his real life espionag's adventures, 211 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:37.360 shining a light on one of the CIA's best kept secrets. 212 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:42.240 Brace yourself for shocking revelations, including Sibrell's discovery of privately 213 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:46.639 recorded audio exposing an Apollo astronaut's chilling plot, a plot 214 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:51.039 orchestrated by the CIA. That's right. As Sobrail unveils it's 215 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:54.240 ground breaking evidence, it becomes clear that there is much 216 00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:57.120 more to the Apollo missions than meets the eye. Could 217 00:14:57.159 --> 00:14:59.919 it be that we've been deceived all along? Moon Man 218 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.759 and as a gripping page turner that challenges everything you 219 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:05.600 thought you knew, It's a mind bending journey into the 220 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:09.000 unknown where the line between truth and fiction becomes blurred. 221 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:13.279 Don't miss this opportunity to uncover the secrets hidden for decades. 222 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:16.600 Let your curiosity guide you as you joined Bart Sibrel 223 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:20.159 on his quest to find the truth moon Man available 224 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:25.919 now at sibrel dot com. That's sib r el dot com. 225 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:34.159 Prepare to have your beliefs shaken to the very core. 226 00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:40.440 With this is our discussing feminine leadership. Is Sandy Hart, 227 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:44.000 the author of The Liminal Odyssey and Alchemical Power of 228 00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:49.039 the Spaces in Between. Sandy, how has feminine wisdom influenced 229 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:51.440 your inner faith and community building efforts? 230 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:56.360 Oh, it's everything, because it's wired in me as it 231 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:00.919 is in every woman, and I've only recently learned how 232 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:05.799 to utilize it, how to honor it and have reverence 233 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:10.559 for it and then listen to it. That's a big one. 234 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:14.879 How many times do we get a nudge or a 235 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.720 pain or a you know, our throat tightens up or 236 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:23.559 heart light separate titans. That's feminine wisdom. That's our body 237 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:26.399 talking to us. We are not separate from our body. 238 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:30.480 And that was a big revelation for discovery for me. 239 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:34.559 And it shows up in my body. Lets you know 240 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:38.440 right away, without a doubt. I can always count on it. 241 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:42.159 It's like my bff, can you share an example of 242 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:44.480 a time when you identified a gap in a system 243 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:47.639 and turned it to an opportunity for change. 244 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:55.799 Oh yes, all the time. As my fact, here's one, 245 00:16:56.120 --> 00:17:00.279 the here's one. It's like picking our favorite child. Right. 246 00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:05.559 I was on a call co hosting a panel. I 247 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:09.920 was at the Charter for Compassion, actually with someone at 248 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:12.640 a department at the UN, it doesn't matter who they were. 249 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:16.799 And I asked the question because we were talking about 250 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:20.519 the Sustainable Development Goals, these eighteen goals that are designed 251 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:26.240 to mark critical change across all these different critical issues 252 00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:31.319 on our planet. And so I asked them, why is 253 00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:36.039 it taking so long to achieve these goals? Why is 254 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:40.799 it taking so long for the United Nations to accomplish 255 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:44.960 these goals? I mean they're markers, there's improvements, but it's 256 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:51.720 been fifteen years. Why so long? And the response woke 257 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:57.720 me up. It said, he said, good policy requires good people, 258 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:02.440 and most people are not even conscious of the choices 259 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:06.359 they make while sitting in their seat at the United Nations. 260 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:12.319 I mean they're consciously considering everything, but are we truly 261 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:16.640 living it in that way? So this is not to 262 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:20.200 discourage the United Nations, because they do remarkable work, but 263 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:23.680 it's not fast enough when you have the resources the 264 00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:29.720 United Nations has, And so that led me to thinking 265 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:32.720 about a big friend. There are seventeen goals. I thought 266 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:37.680 of an eighteenth a personal responsibility and self agency. What 267 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.039 if we had an eighteenth goal that threaded through every 268 00:18:41.119

--> 00:18:44.200 single one of those to remind everyone working on any 269 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.839 one of those goals to really stop and think about 270 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:52.319 what's my personal responsibility and my self agency in addressing 271 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:54.759 issues and brings it right down to the personal. It 272 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:58.240 got tractions traction, and it was never intended to really 273 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:02.680 get a designated as an eighteenth goal. I mean, this 274 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:05.559 is a big system, a big machine. It was really 275 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:11.160 a grassroots effort to grab the imagination of people, and 276 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:16.160 it got it, got made a lot of you know track, 277 00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:19.200 It had a lot of traction, It got places, but 278 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:23.720 it got it. I realized that it was much more 279 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:27.880 than I could manage, and it eventually went away. But 280 00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:33.519 the intention there was that the other and that is 281 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:39.279 and this came from a challenge. Being an interfaith organization 282 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:43.799 we were there was a contest coming up, and that 283 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.039 contest for this global organization that we are part of 284 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:52.839 was called the United Religions Initiative was to come up 285 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:58.279 with a project that exemplified our collectivision, which is at 286 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:01.440 the r I the United Religions and should have the 287 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:05.599 principal and preamble of the United Religions Initiative, which are 288 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:08.160 these universal goals that we all want to reach, you know, 289 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:12.480 ultimately ending up with the everyone living the Golden rule 290 00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:15.640 UH doing to under others as you will have done 291 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:21.440 unto yourself. And so immediately it dawned on me what 292 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.480 our projects should be that we wanted to present and 293 00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:31.680 submit as a prize winning or submission. And because we've 294 00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:34.720 done panel discussions, we convene the community in circle. We 295 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:38.559 have we have spoken on podiums across all the different 296 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:42.119 faith traditions at the universities, at every university in On County. 297 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:45.920 We've done programming on campus and a number of them 298 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:51.559 for nearly ten years at the time. But what weren't 299 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:55.000 we doing. We weren't reaching the critical mass of our community. 300 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:58.039 What will people show up for? They will show up 301 00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:02.799 for community service. So

I convene my circle and we 302 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:06.039 created the Weekend of Community Service, inter fifth Weekend of 303 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:09.920 Community Service where we pulped cross pollinated our different faith 304 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:13.400 traditions to go out and do service together. Now that 305 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:18.200 was ten years ago, that was at least ten years 306 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:22.400 ago because we did it for seven years and oh 307 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.599 and we won the award you're actually looking at it 308 00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:26.880 for the top of the one up there, and we 309 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:29.119 got to accept it in India. That was our prize. 310 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.759 We've received a cash award plus this trip to India 311 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:36.039 to receive it. A global assembly to a global assembly 312 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:42.599 at any rate. The impact from that was so profound 313 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:47.160 that a mosque and a synagogue that would never step 314 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:52.160 into one another's place of worship got together and now 315 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:57.440 they to this day still sponsor a homeless a homeless 316 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:00.960 transition home for families. 317 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:01.319 It is. 318 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:05.559 So that's that's just one of the you know, impacts 319 00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:07.519 from the work that we have done. But you know, 320 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.599 taking a problem what aren't we doing and finding you know, 321 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:17.599 stopping in that liminal space and asking what else could 322 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:21.440 what aren't we doing? What questions aren't we asking? And 323 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:24.319 that's where we came up with that. And by the way, 324 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:26.240 we still have that money in our account. We don't 325 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:29.839 we don't really do a lot to spend money here. 326 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:31.720 So and that was ten years ago. 327 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:36.079 So what global shift do you believe is necessary for 328 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:39.000 women to move into equal leadership roles? 329 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:42.079 Thank you for asking that question. It's absolutely about remembering 330 00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:46.160 who we are. We and ask ourselves, how am I 331 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:49.319 perpetuating the system? Where is my dollar going? How am 332 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.359 I treating my sister? Am I wounded? Do I have 333 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:54.960 the sister? When do I have some trauma that could 334 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:59.920 be addressed? And how am I living? That we fund them? 335 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.759 Only believe that women are the answer to all of 336 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:08.039 humanity's issues right now? And what about the men or 337 00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:11.640

the We need our men, we need our partners. We 338 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.079 can't fly. We need the two wings of the bird 339 00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:16.759 to be in balanced. But sometimes you want to turn 340 00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:19.920 a corner, you want to change directions, You got to 341 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:22.599 shift which wing is up here and which wing is 342 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:25.680 going to be taken care of down here. And so 343 00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:33.000 we know that when we do our work, everyone is healed. 344 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.519 And that's what happened at the women's village at the Parliament. 345 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:40.079 Everyone was welcoming the space. We didn't do it just 346 00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:42.720 for ourselves, but we did it through how women heal, 347 00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:45.880 how women sell problems, how women design. 348 00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:49.680 So what is liminality. 349 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:55.799 Liminal means threshold, liminality means what we do in that space. 350 00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:59.559 And how does the concept of liminality relate to expanded 351 00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:01.319 conscious in spiritual awakening. 352 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:04.599 I think it's everything. It's where we start, It's where 353 00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:08.039 we can slow down the speed of on wonder. Right, 354 00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:11.599 this is just standard fundamental that should be the default 355 00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:17.519 on wonder because when you're in wonder, you're in curiosity. 356 00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:20.279 Right when you're in curiosity, there's not a lot of 357 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:24.359 room for vulnerability or fear, and fear is usually what 358 00:24:24.519 --> 00:24:27.799 keeps us in place. That's why we continue. We might 359 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:30.799 be spiraling as an evolution, but we keep coming back 360 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:35.880 around because I think this is great spirit God. However, 361 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:39.599 you want to identify whatever force is moving this, moving us, 362 00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:44.119 moving through us, which is not I can't even find 363 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:45.960 a name. There is no name for it. That which 364 00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:49.480 cannot be named. It continues to put this back in 365 00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:51.559 front of us. Look at the conditions in the United 366 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:54.880 States right now. How is it so fragile that so 367 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:58.119 much is getting rolled back and so many are agreeing 368 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:02.599 to it? Is that possible? We haven't learned, we haven't 369 00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:06.319 asked the right questions, and we that's what we are 370 00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:09.720 in search of that We're in search of the right answers. 371 00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:12.880 But first you have to have the right questions. 372 00:25:13.480 --> 00:25:17.240

And that happens in the liminal space when we quiet 373 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:24.160 and realize and just realize real with real eyes, turn 374 00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.799 on your inside eyes, you know, your internal eye, your 375 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:30.720 inner eye, and what haven't but we've been asking, get real. 376 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:32.759 We have to go general on ourselves, but we get 377 00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.839 to be real, real with ourselves in that space. And 378 00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:39.440 that's where I did. That's when, that's when I discovered 379 00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:41.319 this one chapter I thought it was writing for the 380 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:44.200 Liminal Odyssey turned out to be eleven or twelve chapters. 381 00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:47.200 And I say eleven or twelve because the twelfth is 382 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:50.400 barely a chapter, but it's packs a punch, if you will. 383 00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:55.920 And it basically unfolded because I started slowing down in 384 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:59.519 that space and thinking about what does this story really mean? 385 00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:01.359 That happened me in my life, but I thought was 386 00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:04.160 a mundane experience, kind of cool Monday and experience, but 387 00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:07.799 a mondane experience. What was happening there? And oh my gosh, wait, 388 00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:10.799 there's another story. Suddenly all these stories started just like 389 00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:16.279 rolling out of me, each with and you know, anchored 390 00:26:16.359 --> 00:26:22.160 with a methodology or or a mythology or a philosophy 391 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:28.319 or some science that that you know in some quantum 392 00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:33.200 science as well. That really made sense of what was 393 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:35.759 going on in that story? And then I started seeing 394 00:26:35.799 --> 00:26:40.119 a web developed and that web then became my safety net. 395 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:43.319 So we when we do this, when we write our stories, 396 00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:48.640 we start seeing not only how they are not mundane, 397 00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:55.200 they are some juicy full story is worth writing. We 398 00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:57.240 can start saying, what was a live in me? What 399 00:26:57.319 --> 00:27:00.720 was going on in that moment? And that's our gift 400 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.880 that makes up all of our beautiful parts. The wounds, 401 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:07.920 the scars, the joys, all of our parts are beautiful 402 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:10.920 when we can take the time and on wonder in 403 00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:13.279 the liminal space to see them. 404 00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:16.319 So what does it mean to call yourself a woman? 405 00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:20.519 Futurer to future a new paradigm is to know that 406 00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:24.960 we we were doing our work, but we're looking into 407 00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:28.039 the future, I should say, and we are looking into 408 00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:31.319 the future right, we're keeping our eye on what's ahead 409 00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:36.599 of us. And three rules of futuring. There's no blaming, 410 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:42.839 there's no shaming, there's no victimizing. Right when my five 411 00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:48.079 year old child at the time threw a fit and 412 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:52.559 treated me poorly, I didn't carry that on. I'm like, wait, 413 00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:55.279 I'm a mother here, I see what's going on. I'm 414 00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:58.319 here to love you back into wholeness. And that's what 415 00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:03.400 women who future do. Recognize our rules and responsibility as 416 00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:09.640 the biological woman who flows in the in the same 417 00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:14.200 system as the moon who bleeds just like the rivers flow. 418 00:28:16.759 --> 00:28:20.319 And when we stop that and we move into our crone, 419 00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:25.119 that let stays in our womb to nurture our wisdom. 420 00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:28.039 So when we see the nature of who we are 421 00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:35.000 and honor it with reference, then we will move this needle. 422 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.799 A lot of your We're about out of time in 423 00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:43.359 this segment, but I've noticed you use I assume a 424 00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.799 lot of ceremony in what you do. 425 00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:49.599 I do, and I've never thought of myself as a 426 00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:54.279 ceremonious person. I love ceremony. I'm Jewish, and being Jewish 427 00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:56.799 there is ritual and a lot we like the candles. 428 00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:00.799 We you know, there are certain things that sanctify that moment. 429 00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:09.200 So it ceremony means lighting a candle, right and keeping 430 00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:12.559 water and having something to smell ding that's pleasurable. 431 00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:16.160 Well, fortunately we're going to have to talk about ceremony 432 00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:18.519 on the other side of a station break. Sandy and 433 00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:21.039 I will be right back to continue our discussion. Please 434 00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:25.319 stay right there. This is Mission Evolution, Mission evolution dot org. 435 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.160 What are the in between spaces? This is Mission Evolution, 436 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:33.400 Mission evolution dot org. With us discussing the power of 437 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:40.160 liminal space is Sandyheart her website sandyheart dot com. Sandy, 438 00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:42.839 we were talking a little bit about ceremony, and through 439 00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:49.559 what you've said to me so far, I see whiffs of, 440 00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:53.359 if you will, the aroma of various different

cultural ceremonies 441 00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:55.839 from Native America and you're talking about the Red Tans 442 00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:58.319 or the Red Lodge to all sorts of different ones. 443 00:29:58.359 --> 00:30:03.680 Have you drawn on all different uh traditions? And is 444 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.680 that giving you the power to sit in the center 445 00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:10.440 of that liminal space? 446 00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.039 Oh? Absolutely Yeah. Ceremony brings us back to who we 447 00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:17.519 are and engages our body. It brings us our body 448 00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:20.279 to the table when we think when we're in that space, 449 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:25.640 and that's what ceremony does. And ceremony is all about reverence. 450 00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:29.680 So when when you can truly have reverence for what 451 00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:33.200 you're doing, whether you're seek and you're you know, brushing 452 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:37.720 your scriptures, if you are reading scriptures or whatever with 453 00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:41.680 the with this soft brush, or if you are you know, 454 00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:46.240 standing shoulder to shoulder like the like my Muslim brothers 455 00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:50.599 and sisters, do you know, to signify community and putting 456 00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:53.200 your forehead this yoga post, to put your yoga, your 457 00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:57.599 forehead to the floor, to just demonstrate your humility and 458 00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:02.079 reverence for earth and for for all living things. Whether 459 00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:07.119 it's lighting the Shabbat candles in my Jewish tradition, which 460 00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:10.240 Jewish women all over the world are doing, so it's 461 00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:12.359 going round the clock. We're all saying the same prayer 462 00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:16.000 at once. It takes five minutes maybe, or it could 463 00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:21.240 take a minute, you know, yes, absolutely, and especially the 464 00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:29.119 ancient traditions that our indigenous people have carried on in circle. 465 00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:32.359 They brought us circle, as did our you know, ancient 466 00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:36.839 grandmothers brought us circle. The first way forms of sitting, 467 00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:41.240 you know, unearthed by archaeologists dating back to early Mesopotamia. 468 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:44.759 Our communities were a circle, and there were also no 469 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:47.519 heads of the table. The chair was between the male 470 00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:50.400 and the female leaders were at the same height. So 471 00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:55.359 we have reverence for those symbols that just bring us 472 00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:58.400 deeper into who we are. And there's no right or 473 00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:00.559 wrong combination. So yes, all bring. 474 00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:05.119 Me meaning very beautiful. Can you describe a personal limital 475 00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:06.759 moment that deeply changed you. 476 00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:16.559 Yes. Chapter one, it's known as the What About the 477 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:19.960 Dog is the title of the chapter. And in nineteen 478 00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:24.720 eighty two, I found myself at a a music festival, 479 00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.960 cause concert called Peace Sunday. It was a No Nuke's 480 00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:33.880 rally and music festival, and one hundred thousand people gathered 481 00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.319 at the Rose Bowl, which many people know if you 482 00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:39.920 watch football, is in Pasadying in California, and with stadium 483 00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.160 seating and everyone on the grass makes about a room 484 00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:46.279 for about one hundred thousand people, and it was packed 485 00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:49.519 and early on in the day, you know, we're all 486 00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:52.720 there for the music, right at least I was. I 487 00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:55.079 was twenty one years old at the time, nineteen eighty two, 488 00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:58.839 and I was there for the music, and you know, 489 00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:03.599 you know, there was something about this perhaps being my woodstock, 490 00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:06.480 but also being you know, my I was just on 491 00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:09.640 the other side. Too late too. It's born too late 492 00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:11.759 to be a hippie, and that was a I was 493 00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:15.720 a frustrated hippie. So that spoke to me too. About 494 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:18.160 ten o'clock in the morning, before the program began, the 495 00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:20.680 MC came to the microphone and said, you know, it's 496 00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:22.279 going to be a hot day and somebody left their 497 00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:24.799 dog in the car, and if that's your dog and 498 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:27.680 your car, go roll the window down. And you know, 499 00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:31.480 everybody kind of expressed booze and hushes or there's a 500 00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:35.119 hush around the crowd. But I couldn't unhear that. And 501 00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:37.400 so when I had a moment when I found a 502 00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:41.279 moment of silence between a speaker and the band, because 503 00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:43.640 that's how the day went. Speaker band, speaker band all 504 00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:49.480 the way through, and environmentalists and politicians and celebrities, Mike Ferrell, 505 00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:53.440 Jane Fonda, Yoko Ono. These are all the speakers that 506 00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:57.559 peppered in between the bands. As soon as there was 507 00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:00.640 a space between speaker and band, I started shouting, what 508 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:02.759 about the dog? You know, I'm sitting stage left. I

509 00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:06.559 they'll hear me, for sure, over one hundred thousand people. 510 00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:09.719 But I realized I've got a chance, so they'll it'll 511 00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:12.199 be repetitive, and they'll hear what about the dog? Because 512 00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:16.519 I want to report back stat And you know, I 513 00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:19.039 got drowned out. And now my friends on the next time, 514 00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:22.960 the next turner, the next time around joined me, and 515 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:28.280 then by noon and I was regentless and enchanting. I 516 00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:32.840 started every chance until it took a life of its own. 517 00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:37.559 The entire stadium by noon was chanting what about the dog? 518 00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:42.480 Every moment they could in between the spaces, and I 519 00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:46.039 realized in that moment, oh, there's something here. But it 520 00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:51.079 was seated in me. I didn't have I hadn't lived 521 00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:53.320 enough to know that. That was a moment for me 522 00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:56.719 until I started writing this story. And there's much more 523 00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:59.199 to that story to even get to douse here. But 524 00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:01.920 it was until about four o'clock that day. I was 525 00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:04.239 walking in from the concession stand and I heard it, 526 00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:09.199 and I'm like, wait, I didn't start this. I started something, 527 00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:12.840 but it wasn't that round of chanting, and it went 528 00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:15.679 until the MC had to make an announcement that the 529 00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:19.880 dog is fine, and that was only so mister Stevie 530 00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:22.400 Wonder could get five minutes of silence to pray, because 531 00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:28.840 they probably knew he won it. Anyway, that that then 532 00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:33.000 informed my psyche somewhere, my soul was rejoicing that finally 533 00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:35.840 there might be an outlet for my divine purpose, my 534 00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:39.000 sacred task here on this planet. And it did as 535 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:41.800 soon as I started writing this book. And that was 536 00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:45.199 this first story that I realized, oh, what was anchoring me? 537 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:47.719 There was and that was exactly the same time I 538 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:50.599 heard the word liminal and I'm like, okay, what was 539 00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:54.440 going on? And that's how I, uh, that's how I 540 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:57.159 wrote that book. It wrote me, It wrote me. 541 00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:02.360 What practical tools do you teach individuals or organizations to 542 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:04.800 help them navigate liminal transitions? 543 00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:08.320 Yeah, there's a series,

there's a process, and I use 544 00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:13.559 a lot of my compassion integrity training on secular ethic compassionate. 545 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:19.119 It's trauma informed training, although I don't call that when 546 00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:21.199 I step into the room, but it does really tap 547 00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:24.320 into those spaces where we can start to question who 548 00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:28.679 we are, and we start with questioning assumptions. What assumptions 549 00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:32.199 do you carry through the day? And that's not something 550 00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:34.559 you can answer just the first time you hear it. 551 00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:38.519 You have to start paying attention and being willing to 552 00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:42.519 ask the question. And starting with certain practices, they start 553 00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:45.079 creating different neuropathways in our mind. 554 00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:46.480 Every day. 555 00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:48.679 If I ask myself, why am I flipping this light 556 00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:52.920 switch before going out of the room? Am I why 557 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:56.639 am I getting in my car and doing these things 558 00:36:56.719 --> 00:37:01.159 that I'm doing? Some regular thing that you do every 559 00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:05.239 single day, set a president of practice, set a practice 560 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:10.280 for it, and before you know it, that'll start cultivating 561 00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:13.840 different awareness centers will start firing off. It's like, why 562 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:15.960 do I believe that? Why do I think I have 563 00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:19.079 to buy that product? Why do I watch TV commercials 564 00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:21.320 that tell me I'll be thin and prutty and smart 565 00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:24.599 if I buy their product. That's not right. We start 566 00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:27.000 to become more aware when we start paying attention to 567 00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:31.079 the patterns that we carry on in our life and 568 00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:33.400 we don't even know it. So I'll just say that 569 00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:35.679 I start with questioning assumptions. 570 00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:40.000 It's like taking yourself off autopilot. It sounds like it's 571 00:37:40.039 --> 00:37:40.719 exactly right. 572 00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:42.599 It's exactly right. 573 00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:48.079 So how does the moinality apply to larger scale societal 574 00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:52.000 changes such as climate justice, cultural division? 575 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:57.280 I think every day every one of us, including every 576 00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:01.880 system on the planet, experiences limental spaces where there's a 577 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:06.840 challenge and a choice right, and we all contribute up 578 00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:09.719 and down the scale from the from what happens in 579 00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:12.840 the home to what happens in the White House or 580 00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:17.360 any parliament or wherever you are in the world. It 581 00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:21.599 all begins like that gentleman from the United Nations says, 582 00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:25.400 it all begins here. That's how change happens. So we 583 00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:29.800 are in this incredible time. It's an incredible time to 584 00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:33.239 be alive right now. And I thank your listeners for 585 00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:36.679 tuning in to this conversation because there's something in them 586 00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:39.639 that says, ah, I have a role here to play. 587 00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:42.559 And that's true. We all have a role here to play. 588 00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:45.280 And this you know, the world is speeding up to 589 00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:48.800 with technology and now AI we don't know what to 590 00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:52.199 wrap our minds around. It's being manipulated in a lot 591 00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:55.039 of political spheres. Give them too much, give them too much, 592 00:38:55.039 --> 00:38:56.559 they won't know where to turn. And all this stuff 593 00:38:56.559 --> 00:39:00.119 can happen right let's face it, that's what's happening, especially 594 00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:03.199 here in the United States. So how do we say, ah, 595 00:39:03.239 --> 00:39:08.199 I'm stepping out of the noise, slowing down to the 596 00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:10.960 speed of onlander. What's going on? What's my role in it? 597 00:39:11.239 --> 00:39:12.599 And where do I find my center? 598 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:20.000 How can creatives and media makers use liminality to influence 599 00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:21.360 culture in positive ways? 600 00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:24.880 Well they do. Liminal was a word that was really 601 00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:29.760 is really well understood in the world of photography. It's 602 00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:33.400 thought of. If you look up the definition of liminal 603 00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:37.960 you'll get a few different things. One would be it's 604 00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:42.280 a place of transition. If you ask a photographer what 605 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:44.920 it means or an architect what it means, you'll get 606 00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:49.800 two more answers. To a photographer, these are artists, right. 607 00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:56.599 To a photographer, a liminal space is what you feel 608 00:39:56.639 --> 00:40:00.679 when you see a particular picture, see a picture of 609 00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:06.280 a shipyard. A shipyard, for example, immediately evokes a series 610 00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:09.400 of you already know exactly what that space is all 611 00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:11.519 around it, and what it means to be there, what 612 00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:14.039 it smells like. You can probably almost get the taste 613 00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:17.239 of metal in your mouth. You know. That's

what liminal 614 00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:21.639 means to a photographer, right, The emotions, the feelings that 615 00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:24.880 the space between your eyes seeing the picture and what 616 00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:29.400 it brings back to you, and what that means to you. 617 00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:34.800 To an architect, and there's a bigger field of discussion 618 00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:39.000 and even different language around this is the space where 619 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:46.519 they're creating movement, right, and whether they're creating how a 620 00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:51.880 home with a stairwell which is a transitionary place, right, 621 00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:57.960 or a hallway and how it's lived within, or a 622 00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:01.320 public park or a shop out of a shopping center, 623 00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:03.599 to see how do people move in this space? How 624 00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:06.559 do we create community in this space? How do we 625 00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:10.559 have the right lighting in these different places? So liminal 626 00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:14.199 really means what we do with the space that we've got. 627 00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:21.360 How do you integrate the concept of seven generations thinking 628 00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:22.440 into your work? 629 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:25.400 Everything? What am I doing today that's going to affect 630 00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:30.480 seven generations? Period? That's it. 631 00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:33.880 Do you know where the term or the concept of 632 00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:35.440 the seventh generation comes from? 633 00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:40.079 Comes from our indigenous elders. Yeah, it's definitely a construct 634 00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:44.239 of their cultures. Yeah, I think it's a I do believe, 635 00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:48.159 and I am actually you know, I sound like a colonizer. 636 00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:51.480 That's a question for an indigenous person. But that's where 637 00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:56.079 I learned it, and I do believe. It transcends all traditions, 638 00:41:56.320 --> 00:41:58.039 all different nations. 639 00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:00.719 All the amazing treasures one can find there right. 640 00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:07.960 Oh yes, the earth based, Earth based traditions are all 641 00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:13.800 foundational to the patterns of the cosmos and to the 642 00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:17.280 dirt and what's below it and everything in between. The 643 00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:20.599 winged ones, the thin ones, four legged as, two legged, 644 00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:24.400 the trees, everything is part of the human family. 645 00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:29.800 What keeps you grounded is your work gains recognition and awards. 646 00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:36.519 Oh well, at first it was humility because I was 647 00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:38.800 getting a little full of myself. I was like, oh, 648 00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:40.800 well look at me, Look what I can do. And 649 00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:44.480 I'm like, oh no, there's And then I learned how 650 00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:46.599 much I didn't know. And every day I learned how 651 00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:48.840 much I don't know. So I just see in that 652 00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:52.719 on wonder and what keeps me grounded on my sisters, 653 00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:58.000 my circles. I thrive on being in women's circles, and 654 00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:01.360 I'm in all kinds of different circles having different conversations. 655 00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:05.760 Well it's that magic moment again. We've taken up the 656 00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:08.280 station break, but please stay with us. Is Sandy and 657 00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:14.000 I explore cross culture collaboration. This is Mission Evolution www 658 00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:19.400 dot Mission evolution dot org. Can we transcend religious divides? 659 00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:24.119 This is Mission Evolution, Mission evolution dot org. We're continuing 660 00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:29.239 our discussion with Sandyheart. Sandy, how do you encourage collaboration 661 00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:32.559 across cultural, generational or religious divides? 662 00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:38.760 You know, my work has moved out of the community based, 663 00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:44.679 you know, interfaith community building, and what we've done before 664 00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:49.400 is bring people together. The question is are they willing 665 00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:52.000 to sit at the table. And I will tell you 666 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:57.599 that what I discovered after nearly two years of interfaith 667 00:43:57.639 --> 00:43:59.920 community building at the grassroots where I'm in the room 668 00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:04.880 from where it happened, I discovered it isn't religion that 669 00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:11.119 divides us. What it is is nationalism and the rigid 670 00:44:11.239 --> 00:44:17.719 edges of religion that are manipulated if you will to 671 00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:21.719 have us believe that we are divided, right for power 672 00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:25.960 for my way right and there at last I look, 673 00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:29.760 there were eight point one five billion people on the planet, 674 00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:35.239 but that was a while ago. And while there's a 675 00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:39.840 finite amount of faith traditions and definitely a smaller more 676 00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:49.519 world religions collection of belief systems, there are infinite ways 677 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:53.719 of living and being in that faith. So I am 678 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:56.079 informed by all of those things we talked about, Right, 679 00:44:56.119 --> 00:45:00.920 I have all these life experiences and all these you know, 680 00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:04.840 I've learned from so many different perspectives and experiences that 681 00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:08.199 have happened to me.

So how I'm going to address 682 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:11.960 my faith tradition is going to be different than another 683 00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:14.039 Jewish person sitting right next to me, even if they 684 00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:16.320 were born on the same day as me. We have 685 00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:18.159 a different way of seeing the world, and we have 686 00:45:18.199 --> 00:45:25.719 different life experiences. So yet, if your conversation is about 687 00:45:25.960 --> 00:45:31.039 the survival of a religion which is due to nationalism 688 00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:37.360 or a form of manipulation that causes conflict, genocide. You know, 689 00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:42.119 then that's a completely different room. That's a whole different conversation. 690 00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:47.199 Faith traditions, who people who really I've discovered that those 691 00:45:47.239 --> 00:45:55.000 who really understand their faith and it applies to them 692 00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:02.119 in a way of love and not fear, then it's 693 00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:05.440 an easy conversation to have. The difficult dialogues are when 694 00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:10.480 it's about conflict, war, division, lines in the sand. 695 00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:17.039 So with your exposure it's all sorts of different faith 696 00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:19.719 traditions and religions. Have you found they have more in 697 00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:21.440 common than not totally? 698 00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:25.280 You know the golden rule which I mentioned a few times, 699 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:28.880 Now do unto others as they would have done unto you. 700 00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:37.440 Every faith tradition the world, religions right, those that are 701 00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:41.920 commonly known, from Sikhism to Islam, to Judaism, to Christianity 702 00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:46.599 to the high of Buddhism and so on, including indigenous, 703 00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:51.280 they have a golden rule too as well. The Indigenous 704 00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:55.679 isn't necessarily spoken and it's felt out a little differently actually, 705 00:46:56.199 --> 00:47:00.199 but they all have the same unto the idea as 706 00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:02.920 I would do under myself you know, for an example, right, 707 00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:05.760 But they all, you know, they just rearrange the words 708 00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:11.719 so that we all share that construct of I am 709 00:47:11.719 --> 00:47:14.199 my beloved, and my beloved is mine and you are 710 00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:14.840 my beloved. 711 00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:21.960 What upcoming project initiative are you most excited about right now? 712 00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:27.280 Yeah, the Global Women's Village is working on a global 713 00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:31.079 conference and I'm referring to it as an unconference. It's 714 00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:36.360 a convening of women that was inspired because all those 715 00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:40.280 women tugging on our sleeves or grabbing my shoulders and saying, 716 00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:42.800 we need our own conference, we need our own convenient, 717 00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:48.280 we need this in our own space. Right. One thing 718 00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:52.719 I hadn't said yet about that configuration of building a 719 00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:55.440 village and what the greatest inspiration was is that the 720 00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:59.719 world's religions, the rigid edges of world's religions, dating back 721 00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:03.679 to the the written word, have been responsible for perpetuating 722 00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:10.559 systems of domination otherwise known as patriarchy, and women contribute 723 00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:12.880 to that too. So this isn't a man bashing moment. 724 00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:16.840 There's never a man bashing moment in my world, but 725 00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:20.599 this is not one of them, for sure. And so 726 00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:24.039 here in the middle of the world's religions. We put 727 00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:29.360 a village for women and men, designed by women. There 728 00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:33.159 was something significant there and that is what I think 729 00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:37.679 alchemized the air. So that's what we've got coming up. 730 00:48:37.719 --> 00:48:43.079 It's called Destiny Ignited and you can stay tuned by 731 00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:46.360 joining our newsletter at Global Women's Village Network. Yeah, it's 732 00:48:46.480 --> 00:48:50.079 come in November twenty twenty six. We're waiting for our 733 00:48:50.119 --> 00:48:52.679 first run to funding, so bring it on. 734 00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:57.679 That is exciting. What question would you ask your future 735 00:48:57.719 --> 00:48:59.719 self about the impact of your work? 736 00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:08.719 Not a great question, That's a good question to ask 737 00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:14.280 it because it helps me chart my path. What have 738 00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:18.199 I learned? There? It is what have I learned? But 739 00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:19.119 good question? 740 00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:24.079 How can listeners begin to recognize limital opportunities in their 741 00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:24.960 own daily lives? 742 00:49:26.199 --> 00:49:30.599 Awareness their every day, between every breath, between a crisis 743 00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:36.760 and action, the limit and choice. Question and answer. There's 744 00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:40.840 never a moment I mean, and there's never a moment 745 00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:44.679 where not we don't have these opportunities. A liminal space 746 00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:48.280 can be a hot second, or it can be thirty years. 747 00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:50.880 And I have some stories in there, that one which 748 00:49:51.800 --> 00:49:55.880 demonstrates how things happen over a course of thirty years 749 00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:59.440 that did not dawn

on me until I was writing it. So, 750 00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:03.039 like I said, l it wrote me. So yeah, it's 751 00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:07.320 that practice, that awareness, practice awareness with that little, with 752 00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:10.840 that little those steps I gave you earlier. 753 00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:15.079 The it seems like you know, when you're talking about 754 00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:18.679 the liminal space, it's that space between, like you said, 755 00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:23.280 thought and action, et cetera, et cetera. How can we 756 00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:25.960 maximize that? How can we take advantage of it? Because 757 00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:28.239 we tend to right over the top of it and 758 00:50:28.679 --> 00:50:31.039 never take that moment. How how can we how can 759 00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:32.199 we take advantage of it? 760 00:50:32.519 --> 00:50:34.920 Well, we have full agency over what we do, right, 761 00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:37.880 I mean we might be we might be confined by 762 00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:40.639 it or you know, restricted by time we have to 763 00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:42.519 get to work, But that doesn't mean we have to 764 00:50:42.519 --> 00:50:47.920 stop thinking about what what we're stepping over. Right, stay 765 00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:51.960 with it, government, journal about it. You'll be surprised what 766 00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:54.320 comes out of the bottom of your pen, the end 767 00:50:54.320 --> 00:50:56.840 of your pen. I'll tell you. I've grabbed my head 768 00:50:56.840 --> 00:50:59.239 a few times with where did that come from? So? 769 00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:01.400 How do we make the most of it? And I 770 00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:04.079 love that question because I'm all about making the most 771 00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:09.199 of everything. It's just like unpacking it, unpack it, keep 772 00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:12.320 asking yourself questions about it, Well, why do you think 773 00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:15.719 that is? Where did that come from? What prevented me 774 00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:19.760 from doing that in the first place? Yeah, stay with it, 775 00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:23.639 breathe into it. Yeah. 776 00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:25.960 So when we're in one of those liminal spaces and 777 00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:30.480 we're getting new information, where is it coming from? 778 00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:34.840 That's another great question. And I don't know that anybody knows. 779 00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:36.880 It can be spirit, it can be your womb, it 780 00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:40.679 could be your heart, it could be your soul. I 781 00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:43.960 have a perspective that it's my soul talking to me. 782 00:51:44.840 --> 00:51:47.719 And I also have the perspective that my soul's purpose 783 00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:51.440 is to be free, and it will only be free 784 00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:55.519 when I have learned all my lessons on the and 785 00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:58.599 I am on the other side whenever that might be. So, 786 00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:02.360 I I don't know where we're going, but I know 787 00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:04.960 we're on our way. I say this all the time. 788 00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:06.760 I don't want to poison the water hole when I 789 00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:09.000 get there. What can I do to clean up my act? 790 00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:10.679 What can I do to look at the baggage I 791 00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:12.760 might be bringing with me and I don't want to 792 00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:15.159 do that. What can I heal today? 793 00:52:16.840 --> 00:52:17.239 Yeah? 794 00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:20.800 And what happens is it just turns into this joy 795 00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:24.159 ride and I do a course on liminality which I 796 00:52:24.199 --> 00:52:27.400 refer to it as a joy ride into the liminality 797 00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:28.320 of your life. 798 00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:34.239 Yeah, if you have a vision of what the world 799 00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:36.320 would look like if more of us take time in 800 00:52:36.360 --> 00:52:38.599 that in between space, what would it be? 801 00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:43.119 I think it would be a beloved community. I think 802 00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:47.280 it would be the beloved community where everyone takes what 803 00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:50.079 they need and there's enough for everyone and the world 804 00:52:50.199 --> 00:52:57.039 works for everyone. It's important to say here that fear 805 00:52:57.159 --> 00:53:02.960 is a primary motivator in our lives today. So how 806 00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:07.280 do we are? We motivated from love? And to understand, 807 00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:12.000 fear is nothing more than love of something we are protecting. 808 00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:15.079 So there really is no fear, It's just love that 809 00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:16.559 needs a little more attention. 810 00:53:18.400 --> 00:53:20.599 Can fear exist in those liminal spaces? 811 00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:24.000 It does exist in those liminal spaces until we realize it, 812 00:53:24.239 --> 00:53:26.760 until we love it back into wholeness, and that wholeness 813 00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:29.880 is love. We take it, we start pulling it apart, 814 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:32.079 making a bite size What am I really afraid of here? 815 00:53:32.079 --> 00:53:36.039 Where did that come from? Who taught me that? No 816 00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:39.800 victimizing here? But let's learn from it. Okay, I've got agency. 817 00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:42.119 Personal agency is the answer. 818 00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:46.599 Yeah, do you see victimization or self victimization is a 819 00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:50.440 major problem in staying keeping us from staying in that 820 00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:52.199 liminal space and getting the info there. 821 00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:54.679 Yeah, it's really easy to blame someone, so we really 822 00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:57.719 don't have to

take the time. There's a certain comfort 823 00:53:57.800 --> 00:54:00.559 level and just whoa, it's me And in the end, 824 00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:06.199 man did this to women? And you know and no, darling, no, 825 00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:10.960 we've we are the divine feminine embodied we birth life. 826 00:54:11.159 --> 00:54:17.599 We've we we are the healers and the nurtures and 827 00:54:17.639 --> 00:54:22.159 the keepers of life and the keepers of tradition. And men. 828 00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:24.480 We need our men and they contribute greally. 829 00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:32.119 For generations. In the indigenous cultures, there were matriarchal societies. 830 00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:35.360 What do you see is the advantage of matriarchal society 831 00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:36.000 that we're missing? 832 00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:41.159 Well, I think that I'm not. I don't propose that 833 00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:47.400 we move into a matriarchal society because that takes us 834 00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:53.440 back out of balance. Right. We need a system of partnership, right, 835 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:58.119 and there is an entire system of partnership scaffolding. There's 836 00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:05.039 there's visit doctor Leon Eisler, E I s L E R. 837 00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:09.760 Or reach out to me and I will I will 838 00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:11.920 put you in touch with that and then direct you 839 00:55:11.960 --> 00:55:16.119 to what it means for a system of partnership to 840 00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:19.760 thrive that she is the architect of. And we're also 841 00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:23.719 speaking this Friday on a call nice. 842 00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:26.000 It's that time, Sandy, when I have to ask you, 843 00:55:26.039 --> 00:55:27.199 what's your mission. 844 00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:34.639 To future a new paradigm? Simple as that, Yeah, and 845 00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:36.760 to be a good mom and grandmother. 846 00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:42.440 Being the elder. That's a challenge, isn't it. 847 00:55:42.440 --> 00:55:44.599 It is, and that's why it's so important that we 848 00:55:44.679 --> 00:55:48.280 remember it. And then it's not a challenge anymore. Then 849 00:55:48.280 --> 00:55:49.480 you just know who you are. 850 00:55:52.719 --> 00:55:55.920 Well, it's been absolutely wonderful having you on the show. 851 00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:58.840 Unfortunately we are out of time, but Sandy, thank you 852 00:55:58.880 --> 00:56:01.119 so much for being here and during your wisdom. 853 00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:03.480 It was a delight. Thank you so much for having 854 00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:05.320 me and asking such great questions. 855 00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:10.199 My pleasure, our thanks to Sandyheart for an inspiring and 856 00:56:10.280 --> 00:56:15.079 profoundly insightful conversation. Her workman reminds us that real change 857 00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:18.760 doesn't happen in moments of certainty. It happens in the unknown, 858 00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:23.719 the unseen, and the unclaimed spaces between what is and 859 00:56:23.800 --> 00:56:28.559 what will be. To learn more about Sandy's book, upcoming programs, 860 00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:34.079 or the Global Women's Village visit sandyheart dot com. Until 861 00:56:34.119 --> 00:56:37.159 next time, may you walk boldly through your own liminal 862 00:56:37.239 --> 00:56:41.559 spaces and discover the transformation waiting on the other side. 863 00:56:42.440 --> 00:56:45.199 As always, thank you for joining us on Mission Evolution 864 00:56:45.320 --> 00:56:48.639 with Gildoviyeka. For more information or to enjoy our past 865 00:56:48.760 --> 00:56:54.760 archived episodes, visit www Mission evolution dot org. But please 866 00:56:55.320 --> 00:56:57.880 be sure to join us right here next time, as 867 00:56:57.920 --> 00:57:02.199 this mission will continue bringing in information, resources and support 868 00:57:02.679 --> 00:57:04.400 to our evolving world.