บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Richard Donner's Superman with Lauren Shuler Donner | Missing Frames #0.78: Celebrating Superman

about Dick as a human being 68 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:29.959 and a filmmaker, about the legacy of this film and 69 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:33.120 his legacy as a director. Seriously, this was such a treat. 70 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:35.480 What an amazing joy to be able to talk about 71 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:39.000 this movie and this incredible filmmaker and his legacy with 72 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:42.519 the person who knew him best. So actually, Lauren and 73 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:47.600 I recorded our conversation the day after Dick's birthday, which 74 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:50.920 is April twenty fourth. I had no idea we ended 75 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:54.199 up scheduling on that day. It just happened to turn 76 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:57.439 out that way, which was an amazing coincidence. So let's 77 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:01.959 go ahead and celebrate Superman and Richard Donner with Lauren 78 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:17.120 Schuler Donner now available to oh Non video cassette. Well, Lauren, 79 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:20.399 it is awesome to have you here. First and foremost. 80 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:22.720 I feel like I would be remiss if I did 81 00:05:22.759 --> 00:05:26.800 not mention that we are recording this the day after 82 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:30.759 Dick's birthday. So first and foremost, happy birthday to him. Yeah, 83 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:35.000 April twenty fourth, beautiful, beautiful day in the history of 84 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:38.519 the world. But before we get into celebrating Dick in 85 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:40.079 his life, I want to learn more about you and 86 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:42.959 your love of movies and how you got into producing. So, 87 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:45.800 from what I understand it, you were a big Abbott 88 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:48.519 and Costello fan. Used to go see those films. Tell 89 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:49.079 me about that. 90 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:52.199 Yes, when I was very very young and still I 91 00:05:52.279 --> 00:05:53.800 used to go with my cousin and I love them. 92 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:55.680 I loved them because they were scary and they were funny, 93 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:59.240 they were fantastic. We also liked Jerry Lewis and Dan 94 00:05:59.279 --> 00:05:59.879 Martin filmed. 95 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:03.079 Hmmm, anyone in particular that stands out to you. 96 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:05.800 No, I know there was one called Partners that we 97 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:09.360 would we would like imitate them afterwards and we would 98 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:15.879 be hell partners, partners like little girls. But yes, yeah, 99 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.199 I love I love movies from the moment I could 100 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:18.639 see them. 101 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:21.680 Did you decide early on, like at that young age, 102 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:23.160 that you're like, you know what, this wouldn't be so 103 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:25.120 bad to do for a living? 104 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:28.800 No, I shaw. I'm from Cleveland, Ohio, and there you know. 105 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:32.680 It's not like I understood there was an industry and 106 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:35.279 that you could make movies. I just had a great 107 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:37.759 love of them. And it wasn't really until college that 108 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:40.240 I decided that, oh, yeah, I'm going to go major 109 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:42.079 in film. I'm going to I'm going to make movies. 110 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:44.399 Did you know that, Like, were you going to college 111 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:46.000 to go to film school or was it something you 112 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:47.040 decided in school? 113 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:51.079 I decided in school second year. Yeah, I decided. I 114 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:56.279 looked down the t tracks MTA, and I saw the 115 00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:00.279 College of Communications, and I thought movies, Yeah, that would 116 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:02.519 because I sort of combined everything that I loved. I 117 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:06.920 loved writing, I love photography, I love storytelling, and I 118 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:09.040 love movies, and it was suddenly, oh, my god, that 119 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:11.600 would be great. I have no idea why, but I 120 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:17.279 was very lucky. I just had a burst of fortuitous genius. 121 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:20.519 For me, and when you moved into the industry after school, 122 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:23.519 what was that like, because I mean, even nowadays it 123 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:28.560 is still a very male dominated industry, but back then 124 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:32.120 even more so. Yeah, tell me, tell me even about that. 125 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:34.879 I literally had blind us on. I mean, of course 126 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:39.480 I heard stupid comments, but I just persevered. I didn't realize. 127 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:43.519 It's only looking back that I realized how rare it was, 128 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.519 how early I was in trying to make movies. I 129 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:50.639 just wanted to So I just kept marching forward, and 130 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:54.040 I just ignored all the bullshit that I heard, and 131 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:56.439 somehow was succeeded. 132 00:07:56.759 --> 00:08:01.399 And you kind of moved from TV the camera operation. 133 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:04.199 From what I understand, you were a pioneer of camera 134 00:08:04.279 --> 00:08:05.160 operation in time. 135 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:08.519 I started, Yes, I started. I got a lot. I 136 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:11.959 was driving around and you know, with my resume of 137 00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:17.120 things I'd done in college, which was nothing, and looking 138 00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:18.759 for work and I having to get lost. I got 139 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:22.079 lost in Burbank, which is where NBC is,

and I 140 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:25.079 had a desire to be in movies and not in television. 141 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:28.519 But there it was. So I went in and they said, oh, 142 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:30.680 we'll take your resume, and I just sort of had it, 143 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:32.720 you know, and I just know, I've been giving my 144 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:35.919 resume everybody. I want to see somebody, and for some reason, 145 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:39.000 they let me see this woman and she said, thank you. 146 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.639 You know, we will be in contact with you. So 147 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:45.240 finally I got a job at a very small post 148 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:49.360 production company and they were actually they were a production company. 149 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:52.480 They were a full thing and sidewalk. So he was 150 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:56.840 making medical and educational films and that was great, and 151 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:00.480 I talked my way into editing because I'm loved it, 152 00:09:00.679 --> 00:09:03.279 and they had me negative cutting. Now do you know 153 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:06.240 negative cutting. We don't do it anymore, the whole film 154 00:09:06.519 --> 00:09:09.039 and you cut it into you know, you take the 155 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:11.679 work print and you match it to the original film. 156 00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:15.799 You can literally take your movie and ruin it if 157 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:18.120 you cut in the wrong place, it's the original film. 158 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:20.440 Some reason they let me do it. And there was 159 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:23.000 a wonderful woman there who was the head editor, who 160 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:27.440 looked over my shoulder and helped me thankfully. And during 161 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:29.639 that time, I don't know how many months later, I 162 00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:32.519 got a call from NBC and they said, we have 163 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:36.320 a vacation relief program. Would you like to come and 164 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:39.759 work at NBC on our shows? And I said, well sure, 165 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:42.840 And it turned out they have vacation relief where their 166 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:46.440 people go away for vacation and we come in and 167 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:49.320 relieve them. And I was a token woman. There were 168 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:56.000 three women three hundred men, and you know, I learned everything, everything, everything, 169 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:58.840 and I realized the best thing that I could do 170 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:02.320 there would be camera, because I had always I started 171 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:06.039 off with the love of photography. So I asked to 172 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:08.799 be transferred into the local studio and the guys taught 173 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:11.519 me how to use the camera. First time it was 174 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.759 live and I didn't mistake everything was out of focus. 175 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:17.840 I quickly learned how not to do that again, and 176 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:19.799 that's how I started. I started shooting the weather in 177 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:24.440 the news and then some of their local shows, and 178 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:27.399 then I left to freelance. One advantage to being a 179 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:29.440 woman of being the only woman out there doing it. 180 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:32.639 Everybody knew me, you know, everybody watching over my shoulder. 181 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.519 It was I had to be better than everybody else. 182 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:37.519 Not that it was, but I had to really be 183 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:41.480 at the top of my game. And it was incredible, 184 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:46.240 you know. I shot game shows and commercials and sitcoms 185 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.840 and all kinds of things and carried my own equipment. 186 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:53.000 I did everything so that nobody could ever say a 187 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:55.240 woman can't do it because they can't do this. There 188 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:56.960 were a lot of older guys who do want me. 189 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:59.039 There a lot of younger guys who were super nice. 190 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:04.919 And then eventually I'd been writing all along and eventually 191 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:08.320 I just I was growing tired of it, and I 192 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:12.600 was asked to do Easter Sunrise services at the Hollywood Bowl. 193 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:17.399 The Hollywood Bowl is the most beautiful structure in Hollywood. 194 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:21.039 It was Frank Lloyd Wright outdoor auditorium and for the 195 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:24.639 Easter Sunrise services, I was the top camera. That is 196 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:27.840 about I don't know, five hundred steps. I carried the 197 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:32.159 equipment up there shut services, and on the way down, 198 00:11:32.200 --> 00:11:33.639 I thought to myself, you know what, this is it, 199 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:35.799 this is it. I'm not doing this. I want to 200 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:37.879 tell other people what to shoot. I'm not doing this. 201 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:41.399 You've done your part, you were good. 202 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:43.200 So I moved on. I did. I was able to 203 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:46.240 be a social producer on a show. And then during 204 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:49.000 that show I got in a car accident. A woman 205 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:51.519 ran a red light. She came around the blind corner, 206 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:57.399 so I hit her, smashed my kneecap and you know, concussion, 207 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:00.440 the whole thing. So that took me out for months. 208 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.240 And I then started writing my own thing. And I 209 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:05.480 had a lot of friends who were writers, and I 210

00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:09.000 really liked working with them editing, helping them, collaborating. And 211 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:13.000 a friend of mine knew Motown Productions and Nancy Myers, 212 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:18.200 the writer director, was a creative development executive there and 213 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.960 she was leaving. So my friend said, knew Nancy and said, well, 214 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:23.759 Nancy's leaving this position, maybe you want to go. So 215 00:12:23.799 --> 00:12:25.960 I went in and they gave me a script, and 216 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:29.200 I gave him back five pages of constructive criticism and 217 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:33.320 they said, this is good. You're hired. Script. Yeah. That 218 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:37.440 was thank god his Friday, and I ended up being 219 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:41.240 associate producer and thank god his Friday. And I was 220 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:45.799 very young at the time. And then there was a 221 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:49.080 guy nam Joe Schumacher, who was a wonderful writer and 222 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:51.600 head of NBC who said to him, if you write 223 00:12:51.639 --> 00:12:53.919 me a good script, I'll let you direct it. Figure 224 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:55.879 out a production company you want to meet with, and 225 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:58.200 he picked Motown because he was friends with the guy 226 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.279 who ran it, and she loved the script, but the 227 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:04.960 guy ran Motown was off producing the Whiz. So Joel 228 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:08.679 got me and we went off and neither of us 229 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:10.559 kind of knew what we were doing, but we just 230 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:13.840 made a little feature film for television and it was 231 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:18.240 incredibly well received that Washington Post Tom Shales, who was 232 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.840 their critic, was the best critic in the country, and 233 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:23.200 they loved it. And I was twenty seven years old, 234 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:28.159 you know, at that point, and Joel moved on to produce, sorry, 235 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.480 to write and direct movies. I joined a company that 236 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:34.840 I didn't agree with because they wouldn't make the movies 237 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:37.480 that I thought they should have left and I went 238 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.639 on my own, and I felt if I could set 239 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.600 up five different, five different projects in development, which you 240 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:46.360 could do back then, I could live on that income. 241 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:51.720 And Lady Hawk was my first movie. Actually, mister Man 242 00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:53.480 was my first movie. I'm sorry. Mister Mom was my 243 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:56.240 first movie, which I developed on the phone with John Hughes. 244 00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:58.279 I know you were friends with them, weren't you, John Hughes. 245 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:00.759 I didn't know to pull them up, and we just clicked. 246 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:04.840 We're both from the Midwest, we had similar somewhat similar 247 00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:08.919 life experiences in terms of our fathers, and I don't know, 248 00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:10.840 we just hit it off. And one day his wife 249 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:13.799 was in Arizona and he was in charge of the 250 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:17.000 boys and it became pretty clear that I think he 251 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:19.720 met her either in high school or college. But you know, 252 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:22.720 he never was on his never was on his own. 253 00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:26.200 And when she was gone, he had no idea what 254 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:28.879 to do, no idea what's And I was laughing at 255 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:30.519 what he was telling me. He said, you know, I 256 00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:33.159 have like eighty pages of this script. Would you read it? 257 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:36.679 And that was eighty pages of mister mom. And I 258 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:38.399 read it and I loved it, and I gave him 259 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:41.639 some notes and he flew out and forty as he 260 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:45.200 wrote the rest of it, and then we had a 261 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:47.120 hard road to set it up, but we did set 262 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:47.440 it up. 263 00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:49.600 You got it done, and look at that, and it's 264 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:52.559 a beloved movie. I know people love love love it. Yeah, 265 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:53.840 Michael Keaton's great. 266 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:57.600 And after Lady Hawk, Joel called me again and said, oh, 267 00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:01.639 I have the scripts Santam's Fire. Will you directed? And 268 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:04.799 I loved it? I did. And then John called me 269 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:07.480 and said, I have pretty in Pink and I have 270 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:10.759 a new director who's never directed a movie. Would you 271 00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:15.000 produce it? And I did, and that was it. I 272 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:15.720 was on my way. 273 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:19.120 That's amazing. And Lady Hawk was, of course where you 274 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:23.360 met Deck and I literally just watched Lady Hawk for 275 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.639 the first time before I got on this call, and 276 00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:30.519 it was incredibly Well, it's long, but it's like, I mean, 277 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.320 compare it to the films of this day and age 278 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.080 of like two and a half hours. So I am good. 279 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:37.840 I am a seasoned I can sit there for two 280 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:40.399 hours and handle it. But it was so sweet and 281 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:42.840 so much fun, and even more fun just to

think 282 00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:45.399 about it being the production where the two of you met. 283 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:48.240 Is it true? The wedding anniversaries November twenty seventh? 284 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:48.799 Yes? 285 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:53.159 Was it eighty six? Or I was born November twenty seventh, 286 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:56.039 nineteen eighty six? No way, I am not kidding. 287 00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:58.200 What a good date. 288 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:01.279 It's the best Thanksgiving Day? 289 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:02.039 How cool? 290 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:02.320 Is that? 291 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:02.639 All right? 292 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:02.919 Great? 293 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:06.399 I just wanted to because we had invited the whole 294 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:09.960 family for Thanksgiving and we knew that they everybody would 295 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:11.720 be in town, so that was a good time to 296 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:12.039 do it. 297 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.159 I read that and I was like, no way, So 298 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:16.919 I just wanted to, just wanted to put that out there. 299 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:20.759 That's amazing. Of course, we are here to celebrate Dick's 300 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:23.879 life and just what a wonderful, beautiful filmmaker he is, 301 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:29.399 but specifically through his film Superman, which is the seminal 302 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:33.519 superhero film, but also, in my not so humble opinion, 303 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:37.039 one of the great pieces of cinema of all time. 304 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:39.559 And I tell people this a lot, and I would 305 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:40.960 love to get your in So maybe you're a little 306 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:43.559 bit biased like I am, but I'm sure you will agree. 307 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:49.080 I think when we talk about seventies blockbuster cinema, it's 308 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:52.879 always you know, Jaws opened the doors for the blockbuster, 309 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.559 you know, yeah, and it's I mean and rightfully so 310 00:16:56.600 --> 00:16:59.080 it's a classic, it made tons of money. Star Wars 311 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:01.960 kicked it up to another level, and these films are 312 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:05.200 usually like recognize as hand in hand. This is what 313 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:09.880 kicked off the blockbuster era. For whatever reason, we don't 314 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:13.079 talk about Superman in that conversation, and we one hundred 315 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.880 percent should because to me, it's not just those two films. 316 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:19.920 I feel like Superman cemented not just the superhero genre, 317 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:24.039 but like what blockbusters for the future would be. But 318 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:28.559 do you remember seeing Superman when it came out in 319 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:30.039 nineteen seventy eight. 320 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:31.440 Yes, I do, absolutely. 321 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:32.279 What was that like? 322 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:35.119 Well, it was astounding. I mean, you know, firstly, I 323 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:37.319 took the material and he grounded it for the movie, 324 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:40.720 which was very important so that you could believe, you 325 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.599 could believe that a man could fly. He was obsessed, 326 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:47.839 evidently with making it very realistic when Chris flew and 327 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:51.680 I know that Star Wars and eighteen, I mean Star 328 00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:54.640 Wars is very different because Star Wars is all lights 329 00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:55.839 and sound, and. 330 00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:58.000 It's also it's a fantasy world. 331 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:03.240 Yeah, fantasy, which is to its credit, it is amazing 332 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:06.039 that way, and Eat in the same way. But here 333 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:09.079 you have a man, a human being, and you have 334 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:11.240 to believe that he's going to fly. So Dick had 335 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:13.680 all kinds of tricks. I know that he told me. 336 00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:16.920 One trick was that he thought that everybody would be 337 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:19.960 looking for the cables that would be holding him, and 338 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:23.160 therefore sometimes he flew him upside down so that Chris 339 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:25.400 would be like this upside down, and that they had 340 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:29.160 a wire removal, but you never look you never would 341 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:33.759 look there. Obviously, it was I think a terrific feet 342 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.440 and all the more so because he's stuck with the 343 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.640 sort of old fashioned Americana in which the comics were 344 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:45.279 written in the thirties, I think thirties and thirties and forties, 345 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.319 and that was you know it was the sweetness of America. 346 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:53.119 It was the simple here is a hero that saves 347 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:56.480 all of us, who will help the little person against 348 00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.799 the big evil. And he stayed true to that, influenced 349 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.920 Lucas and Spielberg, by the way, not his movie, but 350 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:05.519 that that comic book. 351 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:07.240 Yeah, it was all I mean, all of it came 352 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:09.440 up together, and all of it inspired and spoke with 353 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:11.799 the films that were coming out at the time. So 354 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:14.920 I remember one of the questions when I spoke with 355 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:17.839 Dick a few years ago for the fortieth anniversary of Superman. 356 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:23.119 I'd always wondered,

in that era, it would have made 357 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:27.720 perfect sense to make Superman kind of a jokey parody 358 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:32.119 Adam West Batman of a film. Everything indicated that's the 359 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.240 direction you probably should have gone in, based on what 360 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:38.759 you were seeing and what people were saying about that character. 361 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:42.880 And I was always amazed at him coming in looking 362 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.720 at that interpretation and saying that's not right. No, no, no, 363 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:49.599 that we don't make Yeah, we don't make fun of Superman. 364 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.920 Superman is American, Like you're saying, he's part of America, 365 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:55.680 the mythology of this country, and we're gonna take it seriously. 366 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:58.400 And I asked him, I said, why why that when 367 00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:02.119 everything else it to the contrary, And he said, because 368 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:04.960 that's how I grew up on it. I believed in 369 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:07.160 it as a kid. And I was so I was 370 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.519 so moved and touched by that, because what a simple answer. 371 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:12.920 I was trying to complicate my brain, like was there 372 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:15.160 a creator done? It was just like no, it's because 373 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.839 I knew how much it meant to me as a kid, 374 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:21.400 and I knew how important that character was to other kids, 375 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.359 and that's why I wanted to respect it. I went 376 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:27.559 back and I've read the the Mario Puzo draft, and 377 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:33.440 it is, uh, it is. It's a massive it's like 378 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:37.359 five hundred pages, and it is when you read it. 379 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.599 When you read it, you're like, oh my god, Like 380 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:43.359 there's some good stuff in there. But for the most 381 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:47.359 part it is it's very hokey. It's very silly. You 382 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:49.480 do get the sense Puozzo is like, how much am 383 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:51.559 I getting paid for this? Okay, sure, I'll give you 384 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:55.119 a script, all right. So I admire so much that 385 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:59.319 Dick called his buddy Tom Mankowitz and said, we've got 386 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:01.799 to We've got to stop this. We've got to rescue 387 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:05.559 this character. This is too important. From what I understand, 388 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:09.920 like the production had already been going. Guy Hamilton I 389 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:13.599 think was yes, I think that's yeah. Dick was brought 390 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:15.680 in after Guy Hamilton. There was some sort of tax 391 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:18.680 issue in the UK or something that kicked him off. 392 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:21.440 But it was only a couple months of prep for 393 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:24.559 Dick to get prepared for the film, for pre production 394 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.920 and then to cast the roles. Like as a producer yourself, 395 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:32.000 give me some insight into like just the sheer stress 396 00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:34.680 and insanity of trying to Yeah, I. 397 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:38.200 Mean, prep is all encompassing, all necessary. The more you're 398 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:39.920 prepped and the more you know what you're doing, the 399 00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:42.720 more you can have those ideas, more time to cast 400 00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:46.640 exactly the right person and to design and particularly because 401 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:48.279 they had to figure out how to make a man fly, 402 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:50.839 so they needed a lot of development, a lot of 403 00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:53.480 visual effects development. They didn't have the tools that we 404 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:57.680 have today, so it's insanity to have like that. 405 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:00.480 And apparently all the test footage for the lying was 406 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:02.880 just atrocious. When you got there, the s all kinds, 407 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.480 the producers of the film said it's great, We're good 408 00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:07.960 to go, and came in and said no, it's. 409 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.400 Not no, no, And that was their point of contention, 410 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:12.440 by the way, Yes, that was it. I mean he 411 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:14.720 in order to do it right, you had to spend money, 412 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:17.200 and they didn't want to spend money, and therefore they 413 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:19.240 didn't want to do it right. And Dick did, I 414 00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:22.279 mean he was He was a perfectionist, like every great 415 00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:22.960 director is. 416 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:26.920 And they were constantly uh let's say they played KOI 417 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:28.799 with the details of what the schedule and. 418 00:22:28.759 --> 00:22:30.920 The shut down the film at a certain point when 419 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:33.279 I mean when they still had I think about it, 420 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:35.960 a quarter of it left to do. Yeah, and they 421 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:38.799 kept they kept taking the they took they were terrible. 422 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:41.960 Yeah, And I can't imagine coming in it was it 423 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.920 was two films being shot back to back. So this 424 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.119 is an enormous production. It is a hundreds of millions 425 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:49.880 of dollars are being put into it. And what's clear 426 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.039 to me just and I'm looking, I have the benefit 427 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:54.359 of

hindsight, you know, I can read all the material 428 00:22:54.519 --> 00:22:56.920 and see all of the material living through it as 429 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:01.039 a completely different experience, imagine, but you can see, like 430 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:02.720 looking at it from the outside, it's like, Okay, what 431 00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:06.640 happened is you have these producers get this very There's 432 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:10.279 a lot of financial potential here. They attached Marlon Brando, 433 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:13.960 they attach Gene Hackman to continue to boost that budget 434 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:16.799 a little bit. But there's there isn't the integrity of 435 00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:19.599 a great storyteller coming in. And when the great storyteller 436 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:22.319 comes in and knows exactly what needs to be done, 437 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:25.319 the moneymakers who are trying to crunch pennies and things 438 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:27.400 like that are saying, well, wait a second, why do 439 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:29.400 we have to do it like that. Let's cut corners 440 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:31.440 and let's do that. And Dick was not like that. 441 00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:34.039 Dick was like, We're going to do this the way 442 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:35.559 it needs to be done now. 443 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:37.519 It was terrible. I mean, listen, it's hard enough to 444 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:40.400 direct that kind of movie because you're figuring it out 445 00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:42.920 as you go. You're figuring out the visual effects as 446 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:46.480 you go. And it's hard enough to direct any movie 447 00:23:46.759 --> 00:23:50.880 with personalities and you know, getting a performance ride and 448 00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:55.039 getting everything working without having producers over your shoulder threatening 449 00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:57.559 to you know, to pull the film to not pay 450 00:23:57.559 --> 00:23:57.839 for it. 451 00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:00.240 Yeah, and effects that had never been done before were 452 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:02.720 things that were being basically just like. 453 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:04.559 You had to do research and development. 454 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:08.119 Yes, yeah, So what I am always struck by with 455 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.640 the film itself is the level of integrity to it. 456 00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:15.799 There is humor to it, it's very funny, it's borderline 457 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:18.799 camp be at points. But the thing that Dick never 458 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:21.759 made fun of, and it's very clear this was almost 459 00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:24.799 a mandate. You can make fun of everything except the 460 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:27.240 character of Superman himself. 461 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:30.240 Did you see Dick's recut of Superman two? 462 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:33.079 Of course, yeah, that was the best. I know, it 463 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:35.640 was very very happy that he got to be involved 464 00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:35.920 with that. 465 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.640 We do, you know it would Lester did not use 466 00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:42.480 the footage that Dick had shot with Brando and also 467 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:46.440 the romantic footage with Superman and Lois. Yeah, so he 468 00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:50.920 eliminated their love story, their love story into and eliminated 469 00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:52.279 the father and son's story. 470 00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:55.240 But I can't imagine how frustrating that was for Dick. 471 00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:57.480 I know it really broke his heart when they fired 472 00:24:57.559 --> 00:24:59.839 him from the film. You know, Superman one sets of 473 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:02.400 everything up, and the miracle of that film is that 474 00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:06.359 despite the production issues and all of the trouble that 475 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:08.200 they went through, and the fact that the production at 476 00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:13.039 every stage was compromised schedule wise, budget wise, and then 477 00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:16.119 they decided like seventy five percent like you were saying, 478 00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:17.599 they decided to cut it and said, we're going to 479 00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:19.960 finish the first film and we're just gonna slap an 480 00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:22.480 ending on it. So the fact that he got to 481 00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:25.319 tell half of his story, but then the other half 482 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.880 was taken away. And yeah, and you can see it 483 00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:31.480 in the sequels too. I loved Roger Eberts's review of 484 00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:34.720 Superman three. Roger Eberts's review of that film was, this 485 00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:37.720 is the movie I was afraid the first Superman. 486 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:42.559 Movie that is that great? Isn't that great? 487 00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:44.000 And I love that. There's a lot of you know, 488 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:45.720 in the world of film, you can speculate a lot. 489 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:48.599 You can say, oh, you know, we'd thank goodness, We'll 490 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:50.720 never know what would have happened if so and so 491 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:54.160 hadn't made, if George Lucas hadn't made Star Wars, We'll 492 00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:56.240 never know what that would have been like. But with 493 00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:59.759 Dick and Superman, we know what happened to that franchise 494 00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.799 and he was let go, and there is a significant 495 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:08.119 drop in quality in those sequels. Yeah, oh yeah. Do 496 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:10.920 you think it was primarily because of that, like his 497 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:14.359 ability as a filmmaker, but more importantly his devotion to 498 00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:18.279 really really

committing to the virus, similitude and all of that. 499 00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:21.839 Yes, because he wanted the very similitude because he wanted 500 00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:23.640 to make it real if you're going to have a 501 00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:27.839 man fly, and it was very difficult. Yes, he wanted 502 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:30.400 to do it perfectly in the right way, and they 503 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:32.519 didn't want to and they were afraid that he was 504 00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:34.279 going to cost them too much money on too. 505 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:37.960 So in what ways do you think that film reflects 506 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:41.680 Dick's personality? Are there moments that stand out to you? 507 00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:45.400 I believe, and I've taught this to everybody who were 508 00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:51.000 work for me, that the movie does reflect the director's personality. 509 00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:54.440 The director in ninety eight percent of the directors. There 510 00:26:54.759 --> 00:27:00.440 are some exceptions, but Dick Superman really really reflects who 511 00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:03.319 he was because it was, you know, big and larger 512 00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:09.079 than life. He was incredibly charismatic, incredibly engaging, had a 513 00:27:09.160 --> 00:27:11.920 really sort of sweet and goofy side, a little bit 514 00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:15.480 like Clark Ken, but he also had a very very 515 00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:21.559 serious side like Superman. He took things really serious into heart, 516 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:24.359 and he was and he loved fun, and he loved 517 00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:25.920 to have a good time and he loved to make 518 00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:29.319 people laugh. And the movie reflects all of that. 519 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:33.119 Yeah, I really really love that sense of innocence and fun, 520 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:37.599 and I think a more egotistical director couldn't have handled 521 00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:41.000 that in a way. You know, Superman requires that level 522 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:43.240 of being able to give yourself over to the material. 523 00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:46.599 And honestly, I remember reading and making movies by Sidney 524 00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:51.119 Lumet how sometimes he would kind of be a little 525 00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:55.200 turned off by the idea of a director's style, like, oh, 526 00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:57.640 a director. There are certain directors where you can say, oh, 527 00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:00.880 that's a Quentin Tarantino movie, that's a Way Anderson film, 528 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:04.240 and it's a very obvious, overt style that you can 529 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:08.480 recognize immediately. And Lumette always felt personally as a filmmaker 530 00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:12.759 that there was a different approach that a director could 531 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:16.240 take that wasn't as highly valued for whatever reason, but 532 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:19.599 deserved to be recognized as such. And it was getting 533 00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:22.839 inside the material and really bringing that script to life. 534 00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:25.480 And the script, no, I agree with one hundred percent. 535 00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:27.640 It shouldn't look like every other film that he or 536 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:31.319 she did. It should look like what the script says. 537 00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:33.720 It should look like, you know, it should it should 538 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.200 have If it's a dark script, it should be dark 539 00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:38.920 and not necessarily light because your other movies were light. 540 00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:42.359 Yeah. So I actually last year I was in LA 541 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:46.440 and I saw a it was they screened Superman with 542 00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:52.599 a live orchestra, and yes, yes, and that was an experience. 543 00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:56.440 Oh that's awesome. Elia Salkind was there and I met him, 544 00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.519 and my buddy and I are massive fans of Dick movie. 545 00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:03.160 We are very, very familiar with the behind the scenes 546 00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:06.000 turmoil on this film. And it was like, you know, 547 00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:08.039 it's just very nice to meet Ilia and talk to 548 00:29:08.119 --> 00:29:11.039 him about the film. And Ilia the whole time, like 549 00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:12.319 we were talking to him like, oh, you know, we 550 00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:14.480 love this movie, and Ilia the whole time would not 551 00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:18.319 stop saying Richard Donner is the reason this movie is 552 00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:21.880 as magical as it is good. And I love hearing 553 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:24.839 that again without prompting. We we didn't want to trudge 554 00:29:24.920 --> 00:29:27.359 up any bad memories, but to hear him like say 555 00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:31.079 that and like old, that is the truth. It's the truth. 556 00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:34.599 A hard movie to make it everybody going, but everybody 557 00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:39.000 from Stuart Bair to you know, everybody would say that, 558 00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:43.599 you know it is he. He He was a magnetic person, Dick, 559 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:49.839 and he would absolutely his will was easy to bend 560 00:29:49.880 --> 00:29:52.839 to and in a very good way. And I'm sure 561 00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:56.519 when everything was, you know, depressing because they didn't have 562 00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:58.880 money and it's all kinds were coming down that he 563 00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:02.000 just like threw will move that movie forward, and he 564 00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:02.640 really did. 565 00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:05.880 I don't think there's anyone who could have gotten you know, 566 00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:08.960 Brando and Hackman. You can tell before Dick signed on 567

00:30:09.079 --> 00:30:11.880 that it was a paycheck for them. But there are 568 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:14.799 stories I hear about the way Dick won them over. 569 00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:19.000 One of my favorite stories is convincing Gene Hackman to 570 00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:21.079 shave his mustache. 571 00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:21.119 For the role. 572 00:30:21.319 --> 00:30:22.240 You're over this one. 573 00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:23.960 I love it. 574 00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:26.880 So Hackman had the mustache, didn't want to shave it, 575 00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:31.880 and Dick had a fake mustache attached, yes, and he said, oh, 576 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:32.960 go ahead, you tell the story. 577 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:36.240 Well. Also he didn't want to shave his head either, 578 00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:39.200 so but he knew that Hacken didn't want to shave 579 00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:43.319 his mustache. And Gene happened was a marine. You know, 580 00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:47.279 he's very big, very tough man. So Dick went up 581 00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:50.839 to the to Barney and I don't remember Barney's last 582 00:30:50.839 --> 00:30:52.920 I think his name was Barney, who was the key 583 00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.519 makeup man, and said to him, make me a mustache, 584 00:30:56.599 --> 00:30:58.640 make me a nice fake mustache. Okay, So it made 585 00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:01.799 him a nice fake mustache. And now Jeane comes into 586 00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:04.319 the makeup trailer and Dick says, hey, this is great. 587 00:31:04.359 --> 00:31:07.240 You're ready to shave off your mustache. And Jeans said, 588 00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:09.400 I'm not shaving off my mustache. He goes, come on, 589 00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:11.200 you got it, you know a character. No, no, no, 590 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:13.960 he said. Dick said, I'll tell you what. I'll shave 591 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:18.000 my mustache off. I feel shave off yours. So Hackman goes, 592 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:21.960 all right, okay, all right, good, Dix's great, great, all right, 593 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:23.799 he said, I hate to do it, but okay, I'll 594 00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:26.119 do it. He goes, all right, gene you first. So 595 00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:28.559 he says, Barney, shave off his mustache, and he said. 596 00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:32.960 Barney said, hands over shaking because he was. And he 597 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:36.799 shaved off Jean's mustache, and Jeans said, okay, your next, Dick, 598 00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:39.519 and said okay, And Dick grabbed one end of the 599 00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:43.839 mustache and pulled it off, and he said that HEP's 600 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:47.400 neck was throbbing, and he thought he was going to 601 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:51.319 get bumbled, but all of a sudden happened burst out laughing, 602 00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:54.400 and he definitely that point on he got along. They 603 00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:57.359 got along really well. He also said it happened who 604 00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:01.000 was a very complicated man, had good days and bad days, 605 00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:03.720 and Dick was the kind of this is the kind 606 00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:07.200 of director he was. He said to Hackman, look, I'll 607 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:10.559 tell you why. I understand, and I understand those days, 608 00:32:10.599 --> 00:32:13.279 so you and I will have a signal when I 609 00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:16.279 come on the set if it's one of those days, 610 00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:19.400 you'll give me the signal. I was touching his nose 611 00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:22.759 whatever the signal was. He said, you'll give me the signal, 612 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:26.160 and if it's a bad day, we'll find a cover 613 00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:29.400 set or something something else to shoot. We'll make it 614 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:33.039 work for you. And you know, that was everything that happened. 615 00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:36.240 It was terrific and it worked very smoothly, very smoothly, 616 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:40.119 to the point that when Hackman did Postcards from the Edge, 617 00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:43.720 he played a terrific director in it, and he said 618 00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:44.799 he based it on Dick. 619 00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:47.519 Oh, I love to hear that so much. I love 620 00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:50.400 it so clear watching behind the scenes, like the on 621 00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:53.119 set footage, how much they loved working with him, and 622 00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:56.279 how crucial that was. There's a reason Gene didn't want 623 00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:58.480 come back for Superman too, when they were going to 624 00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:02.759 reshoot it. There's a reason practically nobody on that crew 625 00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:05.200 or you know, Margo I know is going to bat 626 00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:08.759 for him, and as a punishment, her role was reduced 627 00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:11.720 in Superman three. But it's you know, there is no 628 00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:15.839 question what he brought to that first film. And also, 629 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:18.079 I mean he was so crucial to the decision to 630 00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:21.279 cast an unknown for Superman. When I think they were 631 00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:25.759 looking at Robert Redford and Sylvester Stallone was another name 632 00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:29.880 for that, Dick said, no, it's yeah, Neil Diamond, right right. 633 00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:32.279 I mean, I mean, well, maybe we did miss out 634 00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:35.640 on a great Superman movie starring Neil Diamond, but you 635 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:38.400 know it was that Dick was the one who said, like, no, 636 00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:40.880 we when the screen, when the curtains open and you 637 00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:42.799 see it, You're not gonna look up on the screen 638 00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:45.359 and see, oh, Robert Redford in a

Superman suit. You've 639 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:47.839 got to see Superman. So he was so crucial to 640 00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:52.279 bring Chris on board. And there was another great prank 641 00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:56.400 he played on Chris with Marlon Brando. Do you remember 642 00:33:56.599 --> 00:34:00.799 that one? This one I found out about more recently, 643 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:05.599 and this is almost as good as the Hackman mustache. 644 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:09.280 But apparently, you know, Chris and Marlon Brando did not 645 00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:12.599 have a lot of scenes together, and there was one 646 00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:15.800 exchange they had where it was something in the fortress 647 00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:20.159 where Chris was, Yes, Chris is talking like to his 648 00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:24.000 father and like Brando was there, and Chris's line was 649 00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:27.280 who am I? Like who am you? Know? Talking to Jorel, 650 00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:30.960 and Chris apparently was off in the corner practicing it, 651 00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:34.719 like repeating who am I? Like different inflections who am I? Who? 652 00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:37.800 Who am I? And Dick caught wind of how nervous 653 00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:40.480 Chris was, because you know, this is this big line 654 00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:43.280 in front of Brando, the only line they would have together. 655 00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:48.920 So he he and Brando conspired and they rolled cameras 656 00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:52.159 they started the scene. Chris says his line, who am I? 657 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:56.039 And Brando just goes, is that really? How You're gonna 658 00:34:56.039 --> 00:35:06.360 say that? Apparently he and Dick nick Chris's face, but 659 00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:09.800 you know it, it makes all the difference in the world, 660 00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:12.960 and the joy is palpable in the film. I remember, 661 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:16.960 growing up as a kid, you gravitate more towards Superman 662 00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:19.480 two because it's got the punching and the fights and 663 00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:22.159 the villains and stuff. But I remember there was a 664 00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.000 point as I was starting to learn more about film 665 00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:28.280 and starting to understand technique and what made a great 666 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:32.880 film great. I went back and watched Dick Superman, comparing 667 00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:35.679 it to Superman Too, and suddenly it was like a 668 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:40.159 light had been switched on, just learning and seeing like 669 00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.719 we were saying the personality of a filmmaker, how crucial 670 00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:45.559 it is to a film. But the sheer joy and 671 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:50.199 the exuberance and the work of Jeffrey Unsworth and all 672 00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:54.400 of these things, it really made all the difference. And 673 00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:56.840 just kind of looking at that and learning like it 674 00:35:56.840 --> 00:35:59.239 was an incredible film school for me, just comparing the 675 00:35:59.239 --> 00:36:01.880 two films and learning from a great master. 676 00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:05.880 By the way, there's there's another scene with Brando and 677 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:09.440 Chris Reeves at a diner and Dick is in that 678 00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:10.000 scene too. 679 00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:15.440 Oh yeah, in the diner in Superman Too. Yes, I 680 00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:15.920 didn't know that. 681 00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:19.039 One of the stools there is a stool. They're sitting 682 00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:23.039 on the stools and Brando was talking to Chris. 683 00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:26.559 Yes, Oh that's great, I need to stool. Yeah, I 684 00:36:26.599 --> 00:36:28.760 need to go back and rewatch that. See, you're giving 685 00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:31.239 me perfect excuses to go back and rewatch the murders. 686 00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:35.000 I think what's interesting about this film to me is 687 00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:37.199 because of where it was placed, how it was released. 688 00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:40.559 I don't know if people give Superman the movie enough 689 00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:44.519 credit for what it did to save that character, to 690 00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:47.800 save like it kind of legitimized the entire genre of 691 00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:51.760 superhero films, which didn't exist prior to Dick's film. But 692 00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:53.400 I wanted to get your thoughts on that. You are 693 00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:57.599 an extraordinary producer. You have been involved with many, many 694 00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:02.199 superhero films. How often do you hear people talking about 695 00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:05.559 this film and what a major change it did for 696 00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:06.360 that genre? 697 00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:12.440 Oh? Everyone, everyone loves it. Yeah, it totally opened it 698 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:16.920 up and let us enjoy the com characters, brought them 699 00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:19.519 to life and gave us these films absolutely. 700 00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:21.079 What do you think it is? Like? Why do people 701 00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:23.960 kind of I don't know why, but in some ways, 702 00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:26.760 like I was saying earlier, with Star Wars and Jaws, 703 00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:29.000 people are very quick to jump on that bandwagon and 704 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:32.199 say like, yes, these are great films, But the superhero 705 00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:34.920 genre in general is almost like looked down upon or 706 00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:38.039 frowned upon in some ways. And I wanted to get 707 00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:40.119 your thoughts like, what is it about? It? 708 00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:40.400 Is it? 709 00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:44.480 Because it's like people just don't

want to admit that 710 00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:46.800 they love this stuff, don't take it seriously because it's 711 00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:48.360 like not real people and ET. 712 00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:51.280 You had the real kids, right, and then you had 713 00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:54.360 a character of ET. I mean, Star Wars the same thing. 714 00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:57.360 They were real, but then you had other worlds. And 715 00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:00.840 I think maybe you know, in Super or Man, they're 716 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:05.440 all really comfortable characters that you bring to life. But nonetheless, 717 00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:08.639 I think people feel like they don't take it as seriously. 718 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:11.519 Yeah, do you think it's that level of arrogance maybe 719 00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:14.880 of like, well, it's a superhero thing, but I'm I'm 720 00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:18.719 a mature film connoisseur or whatever you want to call it, Like, 721 00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:22.039 I yeah, I think it's silly. I think it's dumb, 722 00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:25.400 and I give so much kudos to Dick for being 723 00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:28.280 better than that. You know, I think it's too easy 724 00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:30.960 to be cynical and egotistical when it comes to a 725 00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:32.679 film like this, But to leave your ego at the 726 00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:35.960 door and honor something like this and recognize the power, 727 00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.800 that's the brilliance, and that's the brilliance of his entire filmography. Really, 728 00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:45.239 you know, it's it's the popularity versus credibility conversation where 729 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:48.000 it feels like the more popular something is, the less 730 00:38:48.039 --> 00:38:51.239 credible it is. And I saw this happen a lot 731 00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:53.800 with Dick's career. Where it's something like something as beloved 732 00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:56.599 as The Goonies or Lethal Weapon, they do get some 733 00:38:56.760 --> 00:39:00.480 critical acclaim, but sometimes there's a snobbishness that comes with 734 00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:04.039 like maybe the film community or the critical community, and 735 00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:06.599 I think it's foolish, like why can't we have both 736 00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:09.639 the entertainment value and the cinematic value? And he brought 737 00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:10.519 both to the table. 738 00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:12.039 Yes, absolutely he did. 739 00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.719 Do you think it's kind of crazy that nobody and 740 00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:18.880 this is with Look, I saw Brian Singer Superman Returns. 741 00:39:18.920 --> 00:39:22.960 I think I saw that twelve times in theaters. Yeah, 742 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:25.679 I'm a crazy person. Well, I mean, I mean I 743 00:39:25.719 --> 00:39:27.639 loved it. But you know why I saw it was 744 00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:29.840 because

I loved Dick's film so much. That was my 745 00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:33.760 first experience. You can tell, you can tell. 746 00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:37.440 If it was all right that he did another one. 747 00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:39.760 And I loved that so much. I appreciated so much 748 00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:42.360 that he respected Dick so much to do that. But 749 00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:46.159 I remember seeing that movie and be thinking like, it's 750 00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:50.559 very beholden to Dick's film, And then the next one 751 00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:53.320 they made after that is almost going so far in 752 00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:56.920 the other direction that it completely misses the point of Superman. 753 00:39:57.079 --> 00:40:00.199 So do you think as we're moving into Jane his 754 00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:03.480 guns interpretation of the film. And he loves Dick's movie too. 755 00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:05.880 I remember he said something on Twitter about how much 756 00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:07.880 he loved the film, and I was like, I was like, 757 00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:10.159 this is the guy. He's right, He's the right guy 758 00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:12.159 for the job. But what is it? Why do you 759 00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:15.599 think it's so hard for people to get that combination right? 760 00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:19.239 Like I really truly believe that that first Superman film 761 00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:22.920 might be the only great, masterful Superman film. 762 00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:25.800 Well, I mean, of course I think it is, but 763 00:40:25.880 --> 00:40:28.400 we'll see. What do you hear about James Gunn's film? 764 00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:29.239 Do you hear anything? 765 00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:32.599 I know exactly what everyone else knows, which I've been 766 00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:34.599 watching the footage. I can tell you this story. 767 00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:34.840 Though. 768 00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:37.559 I've always been a James gun fan. You know, I 769 00:40:37.639 --> 00:40:40.480 really enjoyed his Guardians of the Galaxy films. Yeah, and 770 00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:45.360 he's like, I love them. Aren't they great beauty film? Oh? 771 00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:49.000 That that would have been very, very good. And I 772 00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:52.599 love his personality and I love his heart. Just watching 773 00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:54.760 interviews with him, I'm like, this just seems like a 774 00:40:54.840 --> 00:40:57.840 really cool guy. And I was, you know, I'm I've 775 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:00.519 been a massive Superman fan. It's all Dick's fault. I 776 00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:02.760 told him when I interviewed him that Warner Brothers in 777 00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:04.840 DC have a lot of my money and it's all 778 00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:08.679 his fault. But I have grown up loving that character 779 00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:11.639 and being more than a little disturbed I think by 780 00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:13.960

the darker take on the character that. 781 00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:15.000 We've seen in recent years. 782 00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:17.559 But yeah, you know, it's to each their own. 783 00:41:17.559 --> 00:41:20.199 But I was like Batman, I understand, you know, he 784 00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:24.519 had a tragic childhood and it should be dark absolutely. 785 00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:28.280 You know, it takes place in Gotham. I mean, you know, 786 00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:29.559 it's a different world. 787 00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:33.480 But like super Superman has to be that. He's the 788 00:41:33.519 --> 00:41:36.880 flip side of Batman. He's the other side of the coin. 789 00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.639 It needs to be more simplistic. I need to reflect 790 00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:42.199 the America that it was written in exactly. 791 00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:46.079 So I spent a lot of time exactly and I 792 00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:47.920 spent a lot of time explaining, like, you know, Superman 793 00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:49.920 is the guy who saves the cat from the tree 794 00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:53.559 after saving the President from crashing an Air Force one. 795 00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:57.079 Batman doesn't do that. Kids. Kids need to love Superman. 796 00:41:57.119 --> 00:41:59.079 They need to feel like like Superman wants to give 797 00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:00.239 a kid a hug like a you. 798 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:04.280 Okay, but you're not gonna want to hug him exactly. 799 00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:07.599 You're gonna want to run away from him. But but 800 00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:11.280 I I remember James when they announced that he was 801 00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.000 taken over DC and that he would be producing films. 802 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:18.880 Not long after, he tweeted about the anniversary of Dick's 803 00:42:18.920 --> 00:42:22.239 Superman film, just like, happy anniversary to this incredible film. 804 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:24.960 And someone wrote to him and said, like, I remember 805 00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:27.800 seeing this in the theater and how much it changed 806 00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:30.599 my life. And James wrote back to me, this film 807 00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:34.039 is as important as Star Wars. This film is as 808 00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:37.519 crucial to my career as Star Wars. And I remember thinking, 809 00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:41.280 that's the guy I want making Superman movies. Somebody who 810 00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:44.719 it's not just the nostalgia factor. It's not just growing 811 00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:47.039 up with the film. It's not just that you know 812 00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:50.400 the bygone era. I wish Dick's film is a masterpiece. 813 00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:53.280 I put it on the same level as any great 814 00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:56.320 film of all time. It doesn't matter if it's The Godfather, 815 00:42:56.480 --> 00:43:00.159 Raging Bull, or Star Wars. To me, Superman belonged in 816 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:04.119 that category. So I want somebody who recognizes beyond the 817 00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:07.320 fact that it's a wonderful interpretation of a great character, 818 00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:12.639 that it is one of the crucial landmarks of cinema, 819 00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:15.760 and that was really really exciting. So Ever since then, 820 00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:18.719 seeing all the stuff James has been releasing about the film, 821 00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:22.320 all the interviews and what they say about Superman, that 822 00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:24.880 he brings hope, that it's a movie about hope and 823 00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:28.719 love and humanity rising up. All of these things are 824 00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:31.920 so crucial to the character. But also these are things 825 00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:35.400 that I think Dick really emphasized about the character. I 826 00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:41.239 think his Superman film reinvented how we perceive Superman, and 827 00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:44.599 it's because he instilled it with his love, his joy, 828 00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:47.320 who he was as a human being. He brought that 829 00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:49.599 to the movie, and I think it became part of 830 00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:53.519 Superman's DNA in a crazy way. I don't know if 831 00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:56.440 people respect that as much as they should. 832 00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:58.039 Yeah, I agree. 833 00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:00.519 Have you gotten a chance to see any of the 834 00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:03.280 James Gun the trailers or anything. 835 00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:06.239 No, not yet. Actually, when we're done, I'm gonna go check. 836 00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:09.440 You should they're using they're using the John Williams theme too. 837 00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:12.119 Which oh yeah, they have to do that, they too. 838 00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:13.559 It's like James Bond. 839 00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:15.920 Williams said to him that he was going to get 840 00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:18.599 the music to say Superman, Superman. 841 00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:22.400 I love that, and Dick tells that story. I remember 842 00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:24.039 watching one of the behind the scenes and I was like, 843 00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:26.800 I never thought about it, but you do you hear it? 844 00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:28.480 You feel it? You do? 845 00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:31.360 Yes, exactly. 846 00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:31.920 Well. 847 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:37.239 I think what's clear is that through Superman, it kind 848 00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:40.400 of shaped Dick's career, but it also shaped the future 849 00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:44.159 of that character. And I mean, I don't know many 850 00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:47.239 people who have written for Superman who have done whether 851 00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:51.559 it's comics or films, who weren't influenced by that film 852 00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:52.440 in some way. 853 00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:55.559

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I mean I do hear it 854 00:44:55.639 --> 00:45:00.639 all the time really to this day, enthusiast about the 855 00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:02.840 movie and appreciative about the movie, and it's nice that 856 00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:04.159 they share it with me. I love it. 857 00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:06.480 Yeah. Do you think Dick really did? Do you think 858 00:45:06.519 --> 00:45:09.719 he recognized or fact? He strikes me as a very 859 00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:13.320 very humble person, Like he was very very averse to 860 00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:17.199 like somebody saying you're amazing, and he'd be like, ah, yeah, he. 861 00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:20.159 Didn't believe his own I mean, he was a confident man, 862 00:45:20.559 --> 00:45:23.239 but he didn't, you know, get all excited about his 863 00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:23.800 own press. 864 00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:24.239 Right. 865 00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:28.119 It's nice to be appreciated and then move on. That's 866 00:45:28.199 --> 00:45:29.239 that was his attitude. 867 00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:32.480 I hope he knew what he gave to this character. 868 00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:34.719 I think I think I'm good. 869 00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:38.239 I mean, everybody loved it. Everything tells him good. I'm 870 00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:40.440 glad everyone. 871 00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:42.559 Loves the Goonies. I mean, how like, if you make 872 00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:44.599 one of these movies, you've had a great career. But 873 00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:46.800 he made that, He made the Omen, he made Lethal. 874 00:45:47.039 --> 00:45:50.000 You know what a wonderful, wonderful career. Are there any 875 00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:52.599 movies like there are plenty of his films that I 876 00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:54.159 haven't seen, and I know there are films that he 877 00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:57.920 really loved that people were either unkind to or maybe 878 00:45:58.039 --> 00:46:00.199 just haven't been as noticed. Are there any film you 879 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:02.679 would recommend that, you know, he really really loved that. 880 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:05.119 Maybe somebody hasn't heard of Inside Moves? 881 00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:08.440 Yeah, he loved Inside Moves. And Inside Moves is a 882 00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:11.480 different film for him. It was it was just a 883 00:46:11.559 --> 00:46:15.679 straight drama. You have to remember that before he did 884 00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:19.960 the Omen, and actually before X fifteen, before his features, 885 00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:24.000 he was a huge television director and he did a 886 00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:26.159 lot of really great work. I mean, you know, the 887 00:46:26.199 --> 00:46:29.159 Twilight Zones that he did, yes were terrific. And if 888 00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:31.800 you look back on I have Gone travel. I mean, 889 00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:34.960 he just did tons of stuff that was fantastic. You 890 00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:36.760 could

see what a great director he was. 891 00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:39.079 I think a lot of people don't realize he did 892 00:46:39.079 --> 00:46:42.599 that episode with Shatner for the Toilet. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. 893 00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:46.599 So when it came to Inside Moves, it was it 894 00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:48.760 was a drama and it was and you can see 895 00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:52.400 it's full of heart, it has humor. It's still The 896 00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:56.199 movie starts off. I think it starts off with John 897 00:46:56.320 --> 00:47:00.920 Savage jumping from a building, right kettle, little trick which 898 00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:05.400 is show the distance. Okay, do you remember the omen? 899 00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:06.000 Yeah? 900 00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:11.039 Okay, do you remember there was a scene where Lee 901 00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:15.920 Remick is up in the second story, you know, of 902 00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:20.000 her house, and there's a little not a balcony, but 903 00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:22.760 she's looking she was able to look down to the 904 00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:26.199 bottom part of the house fixing some flowers and something 905 00:47:26.239 --> 00:47:29.480 knocks off. Oh there there's a bowl with a with 906 00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:32.199 a goldfish, and it knocks off the railing of the 907 00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:35.599 of the guardrail and you follow it down and it 908 00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:38.639 smashes on the floor and you realize how high up 909 00:47:38.679 --> 00:47:41.480 you are and you're like, whoa, you're the audience And 910 00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:43.920 then here comes Damien on his bike, and here he's 911 00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:47.000 coming towards her and she's up fixing the flower and 912 00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:49.559 working with the flowers, and here he comes, and here 913 00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:52.920 he comes and boom you when she goes over your 914 00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:57.840 heart leaves John Savage inside the same thing you saw 915 00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:02.519 the distance down. And then John's age junks, but he 916 00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:06.599 doesn't make it, doesn't kill himself, and that's how the starts. Yeah, fantastic, 917 00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:09.760 and it garnered a nomination for Diana Scarwitt. 918 00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:10.320 That's right. 919 00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:15.239 So his performances were excellent. It wasn't a showy film 920 00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:18.199 as his other films were. It was a quieter film. 921 00:48:18.199 --> 00:48:20.360 But it was really good and it was very Nerrod. 922 00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:23.199 It was heart. It was never it was never given 923 00:48:23.239 --> 00:48:26.280 the marketing campaign. It was never. They never spent the 924 00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:28.760 money to sell it, and therefore it didn't do as well. 925 00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.400 Yeah, and Radio Flyer was another one. I know that, 926 00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:34.159 you Yeah, I watched that as a kid and I 927 00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:35.920 adored it, and I didn't know. You know, as a kid, 928 00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:37.719 you don't think about who's directing the film. 929 00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:40.679 But I know it's a tough subject. A lot of 930 00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:42.480 people don't want to go to the movies to see 931 00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:44.199 something about child abuse. 932 00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:46.440 Yeah, it was a hard That was a hard cell too. 933 00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:48.360 I mean, like the script from what I understand, the 934 00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:51.280 script is very popular in Hollywood, and you and Dick 935 00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:54.760 were very, very attached to it. And it's that it's 936 00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:58.079 that hard line to walk of fantasy versus reality. And 937 00:48:58.840 --> 00:49:00.800 I think this speaks to dict because I think he 938 00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:04.280 had a sense of childlike understanding, like he he could 939 00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:07.719 get into the I think of my reaction as an 940 00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:11.000 eleven twelve year old watching it, like registering with it, 941 00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:12.519 like I understand. 942 00:49:12.199 --> 00:49:14.800 Superman what you said. You know, he read it as 943 00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:16.639 a child. He saw it in a certain way, and 944 00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:18.159 he filmed it in the way that he saw it 945 00:49:18.199 --> 00:49:20.400 as a child. Oh yes, when it came to ay 946 00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:22.280 a flyer, he wanted to shoot the movie from the 947 00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:23.239 child's point of view. 948 00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:24.239 Yeah he did. 949 00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:26.400 He often did. It was often looking up from a 950 00:49:26.440 --> 00:49:27.360 child's point of view. 951 00:49:27.519 --> 00:49:29.880 And all his films, even if they were things like 952 00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:31.679 Lethal Weapon where it was like, oh, it's a bit 953 00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:34.800 like you know, fun exciting explosions, But he still imbued 954 00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:36.519 it with his heart and soul. 955 00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:38.920 And Dick was just a big kit. He happened to 956 00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:42.920 be in a grown up man's body. He was just 957 00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:44.159 a great big kid. 958 00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:46.199 Right, and you see that in all his movies, and 959 00:49:46.239 --> 00:49:50.320 they're all wonderful. Well, I absolutely am so so grateful 960 00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:53.679 to you for hanging out with me, celebrating. 961 00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:54.559 Your love of Dick and his movies. 962 00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:59.079 Yeah, of course, and thank you for celebrating Superman. More importantly, 963 00:49:59.199 --> 00:50:02.920 thank you for celebrating Dick's life with me. He's wonderful, wonderful. 964 00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:05.360 I'm so glad that these films exist in your films too. 965 00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:06.719 They will continue to live on. 966 00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:08.480 Thank Sean, Best of luck, team,