บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Episode 143: Be Kind to Yourself (ft. Mark Wick)

challenging. 00:01:52.525 --> 00:01:54.156 we're all really good at helping others out. 00:01:54.635 --> 00:01:56.236 We'll, we'll do anything for anybody else. 00:01:56.775 --> 00:01:59.835 But asking for the help, that's what we struggle with. 00:02:00.131 --> 00:02:06.444 And in this case, if, if you fell off that curb, and I saw you, I'd be like,"Wow, what can I do? 00:02:06.704 --> 00:02:08.625 I can help you." Because I can see it, right? 00:02:08.625 --> 00:02:13.615 Somebody gets in an accident or you see, you know, blood or something, it's like,"Hey, what can I do?" We see it. 00:02:14.235 --> 00:02:17.735 We wanna help, but we can't see the mental health things. 00:02:17.965 --> 00:02:20.074 We can't see what you're living and experiencing. 00:02:20.830 --> 00:02:32.300 but we don't wanna reach out either,'cause what do you think the most common thing when, when somebody's struggling and I say,"Have you shared this with anybody or have you told your close friends?" Um, what do you think their answer is? 00:02:32.330 --> 00:02:33.300 They don't wanna be what? 00:02:33.911 --> 00:02:34.330 Judged. 00:02:34.871 --> 00:02:36.830 They don't wanna be judged and they don't wanna be a burden. 00:02:38.646 --> 00:02:40.456 But yet they'll help anybody else out. 00:02:40.937 --> 00:02:46.217 And when I help people out, I don't look at them as a burden, I feel better- Yeah after I help'em out, right? 00:02:46.217 --> 00:02:51.457 And if somebody asks, you would, and, and especially with this, wouldn't we all say,"Absolutely. 00:02:51.457 --> 00:02:52.258 How can I help you? 00:02:52.277 --> 00:02:52.927 Let's chat. 00:02:53.344 --> 00:02:54.264 let's get together." Yeah. 00:02:54.854 --> 00:02:59.044 And, um, the guys at Face It, you might know them, I don't know. 00:02:59.044 --> 00:03:00.115 A little bit, Mark and Bill. 00:03:00.134 --> 00:03:00.435 Yeah. 00:03:00.435 --> 00:03:00.784 Yeah. 00:03:01.103 --> 00:03:02.652 you know, they, they shared this. 00:03:02.902 --> 00:03:07.233 Um, instead of phrasing it as a burden, right? 00:03:07.733 --> 00:03:12.468 Um, if we look at it this way, that I'm struggling, and you know what? 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:17.019 I'm gonna ask you for help because I know at the end of the day, you'll feel better helping me. 00:03:17.799 --> 00:03:21.308 If I don't ask you, I'm denying you that opportunity to feel good about yourself. 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:28.170 And if we can just kind of change that narrative, but changing that narrative is not just about that. 00:03:28.181 --> 00:03:34.445 There's about so many things in the mental health area that we have to change the narrative, um, and the way we change it is we talk about it. 00:03:34.656 --> 00:03:34.885 Yeah. 00:03:34.925 --> 00:03:36.165 You know, we understand it better. 00:03:37.786 --> 00:03:45.186 And time and again, when something bad happens in terms of suicide, we were all at a funeral together a couple weeks ago. 00:03:45.445 --> 00:03:45.765 Mm-hmm.

00:03:46.116 --> 00:03:50.616 And the recurring theme from everyone,"Didn't see it coming." Absolutely. 00:03:50.626 --> 00:03:51.855 "Why didn't he say something? 00:03:52.205 --> 00:03:57.016 What I wouldn't have given to have helped." I, I know hindsight's 20/20, and you'll never know. 00:03:57.236 --> 00:03:57.516 Mm-hmm. 00:03:57.866 --> 00:04:01.576 But the rest of us that remain deal with that. 00:04:01.576 --> 00:04:03.236 The, the pain is just transferred. 00:04:03.849 --> 00:04:14.520 And yet that person, and again, I, I can't read their minds and those types of stuff, I know from, from personal experience, the thought is, though, that everybody'll be better off without me. 00:04:14.530 --> 00:04:14.849 Yeah. 00:04:15.069 --> 00:04:35.190 Like- I'm doing them, I'm doing a favor I'm doing everybody a favor- Yeah when in hindsight it's the other way, but that's the way our mind works, and that's the really tough thing about this, about mental health, is, um, that is a common thing that people will say,"I didn't see this coming." And the reason is the people that live it, we get really good at hiding it. 00:04:35.963 --> 00:04:41.663 Because we don't want people to, to see it because it's always been looked at as something negative. 00:04:41.863 --> 00:04:48.254 So I, I don't wanna show that, and over time that gets really, really heavy, and then we see the consequences of that. 00:04:50.916 --> 00:05:01.641 I saw Jimmy Carr, a comedian, sharing a rather unexpected aspect in his standup routine where he addressed that, and I wanna read what he said. 00:05:03.021 --> 00:05:04.471 "Suicide doesn't work. 00:05:05.278 --> 00:05:10.377 People commit suicide because they wanna get rid of the pain, but you can't get rid of the pain. 00:05:10.997 --> 00:05:20.603 All you can ever hope to do is redistribute the pain to people that loved you." He called that a terrifying realization. 00:05:20.613 --> 00:05:25.584 And then if one person listened to that and goes,"Okay, yeah, I, I can't do that." Mm-hmm. 00:05:25.584 --> 00:05:26.634 I hadn't thought about it that way. 00:05:26.673 --> 00:05:29.374 That, that pain that someone's feeling is just getting... 00:05:30.684 --> 00:05:32.973 It's a tidal wave onto the people you leave behind. 00:05:33.033 --> 00:05:34.334 There's no favor being done. 00:05:34.603 --> 00:05:34.824 No. 00:05:36.613 --> 00:05:39.204 Mark Wick, we are happy to have you in studio today. 00:05:39.204 --> 00:05:42.863 We have mutual friends, as you mentioned, Bill and Mark from Face It Foundation. 00:05:43.274 --> 00:05:46.983 You have quite a- Friends is a- Well, it's a loose- I mean, acquaintances Depends on the day. 00:05:47.014 --> 00:05:47.314 Yep. 00:05:47.434 --> 00:05:47.564 No. 00:05:47.564 --> 00:05:48.624 There's a lot of teasing that goes. 00:05:49.374 --> 00:05:54.427 Isn't that the thing, that we, we tease and, and give each other a hard time are those we love the most? 00:05:55.605 --> 00:05:58.415 You have quite an

accomplished hockey coaching career. 00:05:58.425 --> 00:06:00.095 We're gonna talk about that a little bit. 00:06:01.375 --> 00:06:04.625 Men's mental health has been a big focus for the Minnesota Freemasons. 00:06:05.735 --> 00:06:09.954 We've embarked on a partnership with Face It Foundation for the next five years. 00:06:09.954 --> 00:06:19.475 We are bringing the BEHIVE initiative to lodges across our state, with the goal being: how can we connect on a deeper and more authentic level? 00:06:20.427 --> 00:06:28.108 Masons use a lot of these descriptions of brotherhood and friendship, personal growth, accountability to one another. 00:06:29.197 --> 00:06:32.067 We wanna see that become something that is tangible. 00:06:32.088 --> 00:06:34.677 Brotherhood is a verb felt in the heart. 00:06:35.978 --> 00:06:51.048 You can say the words all day long, but if they're just platitudes, and if they're not felt, if they're not-- if there's not that authentic connection of trust and love, we're missing the mark in a world that is lonely, isolated. 00:06:51.735 --> 00:06:58.437 We've gone through the stats so many times, the friendship recession, people struggling in, in silence. 00:06:59.858 --> 00:07:07.247 Why are we going through this journey of life and not leaning on those who we know care about us and love us? 00:07:07.266 --> 00:07:09.697 And you talked about that reciprocal relationship. 00:07:10.430 --> 00:07:15.511 I, I wish we could just find that answer, but it's, like you said, talking about it is the start. 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:16.930 Yep, normalizing it. 00:07:17.091 --> 00:07:19.201 Because, this is what I do now. 00:07:19.651 --> 00:07:22.641 I try to talk about it, because I'm one of the lucky ones. 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:24.701 You talk about all those stats, right? 00:07:25.141 --> 00:07:27.730 Um, that could've been me, right? 00:07:27.740 --> 00:07:28.540 Can you share your story? 00:07:29.411 --> 00:07:34.252 I've lived with, I'll say I li- I've lived with depression probably my whole life. 00:07:34.802 --> 00:07:44.908 And I know, you know, for 30 years my wife tried to tell me, I had depression and tried to, you know, get me help. 00:07:45.249 --> 00:07:49.067 But it's a really tough thing, to identify, right? 00:07:49.177 --> 00:07:49.966 What's she gonna do? 00:07:50.026 --> 00:07:51.747 Like, blood test, X-ray, MRI? 00:07:51.757 --> 00:08:01.663 Like- Right it was her word against mine kinda thing, and she could say it, but I didn't wanna believe it because, that's a label, the way I looked at it. 00:08:01.762 --> 00:08:05.333 So I denied it, I hid it, I did all those things. 00:08:05.333 --> 00:08:10.163 And like I said, when we hold those things in and we don't share them with other people, they get really, really heavy. 00:08:10.682 --> 00:08:21.240 And, you know, I don't have to go through the whole thing, but the 2014-'15 season when I was coaching, we were on a, playing in a tournament out in New York, out in Oswego,

New York. 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:29.000 And, um, after a event on Friday night, a loss, you know, I kinda lost it on the team. 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:30.060 I went out in the parking lot. 00:08:30.060 --> 00:08:31.310 I kinda had a panic attack. 00:08:31.310 --> 00:08:33.080 I got all these racing thoughts. 00:08:33.299 --> 00:08:35.210 but I had to go back in, watch the rest of the game. 00:08:35.210 --> 00:08:36.970 I sent the team off by themselves. 00:08:37.220 --> 00:08:39.649 Um, told them I'd meet them back at the hotel. 00:08:40.019 --> 00:08:46.090 It was upstate New York, January 2nd of 2015, so just like northern Minnesota, not a great night, blustery. 00:08:46.620 --> 00:08:51.149 I decided to walk back to the hotel that night, and all these thoughts running through my head. 00:08:51.149 --> 00:08:51.809 I was crying. 00:08:51.809 --> 00:08:56.178 It's like,"I can't do this anymore." Why is my wife still with me? 00:08:56.188 --> 00:09:00.239 My poor kids drew the short straw with me as a dad." All these thoughts. 00:09:01.621 --> 00:09:09.096 And our hotel just happened to be on the, other side of the Oswego River, which is kinda like the Mississippi that runs into Lake Ontario. 00:09:10.418 --> 00:09:21.104 And, uh, as I stood on the bridge that night, the best thing for me to do as I stopped there and looked over the edge was to jump, that everybody'd be better off without me. 00:09:22.649 --> 00:09:26.899 obviously I didn't jump that night, and it wasn't because I said to myself,"Oh, that's a dumb idea. 00:09:27.139 --> 00:09:29.739 What are you thinking?" It just wasn't the right time. 00:09:29.999 --> 00:09:32.418 See, we're out in New York, I'm already a burden to my wife. 00:09:32.448 --> 00:09:35.528 Now she's gotta find, they gotta find my body, get it back to Minnesota. 00:09:36.028 --> 00:09:42.668 You know, the team probably doesn't know,'cause we were headed to New York City the next day, um, probably don't know where we're staying. 00:09:42.668 --> 00:09:43.749 I got the school credit card. 00:09:43.749 --> 00:09:52.515 Like, all these thoughts that to me at the time were rational, just like jumping was a rational thought, it, um, you know, just wasn't the right time. 00:09:52.515 --> 00:10:02.318 Had we been closer to Duluth that night, I don't know what would've happened, fast-forward to January 31st, a really tough month, our last home game of the year, we lost. 00:10:02.318 --> 00:10:03.139 An event happened. 00:10:03.139 --> 00:10:05.139 I went after the other coach on the ice. 00:10:05.339 --> 00:10:06.349 Um, they separated us. 00:10:06.349 --> 00:10:13.345 I went back to the locker room, and I was kind of in a state of just, um- I was locked. 00:10:13.345 --> 00:10:14.815 Like I, I, I was non... 00:10:15.174 --> 00:10:16.024 I couldn't do anything. 00:10:16.054 --> 00:10:17.115 Was that in the handshake line? 00:10:17.475 --> 00:10:18.975 no, it was after the handshake line. 00:10:19.014 --> 00:10:21.924 It was

a stick salute, and we did our stick salute. 00:10:21.965 --> 00:10:29.434 The other team did a stick salute in front of our fan- in front of their fans on the ice, and my captain turned around and looked at me. 00:10:30.436 --> 00:10:36.176 What he was asking was,"Hey, where's the volleyball coach?"'Cause it was her birthday and we always stick salute her on her birthday. 00:10:36.905 --> 00:10:38.905 I took it as,"Hey, Coach, look at them. 00:10:38.905 --> 00:10:41.255 Are you gonna do anything?""Yeah, sure. 00:10:41.255 --> 00:10:42.166 I'd love to." Right? 00:10:42.166 --> 00:10:42.515 So I went... 00:10:42.525 --> 00:10:43.956 That's when I went after their coach. 00:10:44.836 --> 00:10:45.806 Get to the locker room. 00:10:45.895 --> 00:10:47.466 I was non-functional. 00:10:47.666 --> 00:10:49.416 Sat in a chair, had my hands. 00:10:49.816 --> 00:10:56.265 Um, our assistant coaches were in there, radio people, and our women's hockey coach. 00:10:57.066 --> 00:11:00.046 And Jackie McMillan, the women's coach, said she was leaving. 00:11:00.466 --> 00:11:02.706 She left, but she didn't really leave. 00:11:02.706 --> 00:11:11.846 She called my wife and, um, she waited till everybody left and she came back in the room and said,"You know, Mark, what the hell's going on?" And then my wife walked in. 00:11:12.426 --> 00:11:13.405 And that was it. 00:11:13.645 --> 00:11:14.586 That's when I got help. 00:11:15.225 --> 00:11:23.826 I will say this, if Jackie didn't call my wife that night, I probably wouldn't be here today either, because we hide it, I, I would've gone home. 00:11:24.235 --> 00:11:25.135 It would've been normal. 00:11:25.135 --> 00:11:26.405 I got home at 3:00 in the morning. 00:11:26.456 --> 00:11:28.035 Everybody would've known,"Dad lost. 00:11:28.035 --> 00:11:28.905 Stay away from him. 00:11:28.926 --> 00:11:36.076 Just give him some time." And it got worse and worse every year, and there was gonna be a point that it did happen. 00:11:37.035 --> 00:11:41.916 And at that point, I really couldn't argue the getting help piece because now I was... 00:11:42.566 --> 00:11:46.327 I, I couldn't do it anymore, That was my rock bottom. 00:11:46.868 --> 00:11:50.538 But a lot of people don't get, get that second chance. 00:11:50.998 --> 00:12:06.892 That's why I'm a lucky one I have to believe that your line of work made that even more difficult because you're the coach, it's hockey- Mm-hmm it's tough, it's rough, it's play through the pain like we talked about a few minutes ago. 00:12:08.044 --> 00:12:10.955 How can you be the one that said stop to say,"I need help. 00:12:11.475 --> 00:12:14.995 I need to go address a very serious situation in my life right now"? 00:12:16.373 --> 00:12:21.482 Except at that point, I didn't have any other choice because I, I couldn't also do what I was doing. 00:12:21.753 --> 00:12:29.092 I was so far down the line, and that's where we normally lose people, and that's why I say I'm, I'm the lucky one to be here. 00:12:29.332 --> 00:12:35.721 And that was the first time I took it seriously, and, I wish I would've li- listened to my wife 30 years earlier. 00:12:37.624 --> 00:12:39.114 But there was this whole stigma. 00:12:39.114 --> 00:12:40.374 We don't talk about this stuff. 00:12:40.394 --> 00:12:40.413 Yeah. 00:12:40.423 --> 00:12:41.683 It's, it's not real. 00:12:42.214 --> 00:12:51.746 And, you know, when we even talk about depression, like, what are the signs and symptoms, It's, you know, sad, withdrawn, lonely, hopeless, all that, right? 00:12:51.777 --> 00:12:51.927 Mm-hmm. 00:12:51.927 --> 00:12:52.927 That's what I thought. 00:12:53.712 --> 00:13:04.419 Well, another sign, especially in men, can be anger, rage, lack of focus, um, self-medication. 00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:08.070 all these things screamed my name. 00:13:08.577 --> 00:13:10.658 But I didn't associate that, right? 00:13:10.658 --> 00:13:11.898 You ever seen a coach get upset? 00:13:12.587 --> 00:13:13.888 It's what we do, right? 00:13:13.998 --> 00:13:15.488 I, I always- It's what you get paid for, right? 00:13:15.488 --> 00:13:23.357 Well, I, I always joke, like my wife being a nurse, like, what happens if she sees, um, a doctor at the nurse's station and says,"Is this your patient? 00:13:24.888 --> 00:13:26.278 You came up with this diagnosis? 00:13:26.697 --> 00:13:30.307 My God, did you even go to med school?" And throws a chart at him and storms out. 00:13:30.307 --> 00:13:31.238 What happens to her? 00:13:31.788 --> 00:13:32.538 She gets fired. 00:13:33.467 --> 00:13:34.988 I always tell people, like, I'm a helper. 00:13:35.518 --> 00:13:35.888 Mm-hmm. 00:13:35.888 --> 00:13:40.248 And we know in my sport who needed to be helped the most, the referees, and I would help them. 00:13:40.967 --> 00:13:46.427 And I might tell them that that's the worst call I've ever seen in my 30 years of coaching, and I might drop an F-bomb or five. 00:13:47.138 --> 00:13:48.557 And what would generally happen to me? 00:13:49.317 --> 00:13:50.077 People would cheer. 00:13:50.298 --> 00:13:50.548 Yeah. 00:13:50.548 --> 00:13:50.836 People cheer. 00:13:50.836 --> 00:13:51.658 They love seeing that stuff. 00:13:51.658 --> 00:13:53.538 You, you might get a bench minor or something, right? 00:13:53.538 --> 00:13:53.827 Yeah. 00:13:53.937 --> 00:13:54.618 But who cares, right? 00:13:54.618 --> 00:13:55.687 But, but two minutes. 00:13:55.908 --> 00:13:56.057 Yeah. 00:13:56.118 --> 00:13:56.437 Right? 00:13:56.538 --> 00:14:00.827 But mostly people cheered, Go, go to Major League Baseball back in the day, right? 00:14:00.888 --> 00:14:05.868 Everybody loved watching a manager go, go out there and kick dirt and get in the umpire's face. 00:14:05.868 --> 00:14:07.317 Like, yeah, you know? 00:14:07.327 --> 00:14:07.357 Mm-hmm. 00:14:07.677 --> 00:14:13.413 And, and in hockey we, we fight, People don't lean over and say,"Huh, I wonder if those guys got some mental health issues," right? 00:14:13.793 -->

00:14:14.604 It's part of the game. 00:14:14.714 --> 00:14:14.864 Yeah. 00:14:14.903 --> 00:14:15.994 And the team gets fired up. 00:14:16.053 --> 00:14:16.563 Absolutely. 00:14:16.563 --> 00:14:22.714 I was in the perfect profession to hide my illness because other coaches were doing it, too. 00:14:23.855 --> 00:14:24.323 But I didn't... 00:14:24.524 --> 00:14:25.774 At the end, I didn't control it. 00:14:26.203 --> 00:14:28.244 I didn't wanna act that way, but I... 00:14:28.313 --> 00:14:30.205 my mental health was controlling me. 00:14:30.664 --> 00:14:31.903 I didn't have control of it. 00:14:33.284 --> 00:14:37.943 And in your line of work, there's almost a hall of fame of coaches that behave that way. 00:14:37.955 --> 00:14:40.703 Don Cherry- Oh Barry Melrose. 00:14:40.734 --> 00:14:40.903 Go... 00:14:41.065 --> 00:14:42.203 There's a long, long list. 00:14:42.205 --> 00:14:44.804 Oh, you can go all the way down to Bobby Knight in basketball. 00:14:44.804 --> 00:14:46.163 You can pick out any sport- Oh, yeah full of those guys. 00:14:46.164 --> 00:14:46.674 Throw the chair. 00:14:47.014 --> 00:14:47.644 Oh, yeah. 00:14:47.644 --> 00:14:47.894 Yeah. 00:14:47.894 --> 00:14:48.195 You know? 00:14:49.434 --> 00:14:52.235 You said a few moments ago that that's not real. 00:14:53.414 --> 00:14:53.654 Mm-hmm. 00:14:53.695 --> 00:14:55.914 And I bet people would also,"Oh, it'll pass." Yeah. 00:14:55.924 --> 00:14:58.174 I may be in rage. 00:14:58.205 --> 00:14:59.144 I may be not... 00:14:59.215 --> 00:15:02.815 My, my thought process is all scattered, but that'll pass. 00:15:02.825 --> 00:15:03.914 It's just a thing, right? 00:15:03.914 --> 00:15:04.315 Yep, yep. 00:15:04.325 --> 00:15:13.264 And- But it b- but it won't a- and we can always justify it because there isn't that X-ray, that MRI, that blood test, right? 00:15:13.315 --> 00:15:16.365 You, you can't, you can't talk your way out of a broken arm. 00:15:16.894 --> 00:15:19.745 Well, you don't have to get help, but that's what the X-ray shows, right? 00:15:19.784 --> 00:15:22.485 Here, you just don't get it, right? 00:15:22.554 --> 00:15:33.514 There's a reason for it, like I got mad because somebody did something that made me mad, Um, there was always a reason for my actions, I want... 00:15:33.644 --> 00:15:35.544 You know, I'd sleep a lot. 00:15:35.575 --> 00:15:37.485 Well, it's because I'd been on the road recruiting. 00:15:37.485 --> 00:15:39.115 I'm working these 100-hour weeks, right? 00:15:39.514 --> 00:15:40.985 I didn't sleep, right? 00:15:41.075 --> 00:15:41.764 Well, there was a reason. 00:15:41.914 --> 00:15:43.384 Huh, look at our power play. 00:15:43.764 --> 00:15:45.245 Like, you wouldn't sleep either, right? 00:15:45.254 --> 00:15:45.274 Mm-hmm. 00:15:45.284 --> 00:15:50.115 So, I always had these reasons on why I was acting that way, the justifications. 00:15:50.585 --> 00:15:55.154 Because it was a lot easier to justify than look at myself and say something might be wrong. 00:15:56.538 --> 00:16:02.308 That is a tangled web when your behavior can be directly linked to the job you were hired for. 00:16:02.318 --> 00:16:02.328 Oh. 00:16:03.788 --> 00:16:19.379 What are some other common signs, or maybe not common signs, that would indicate, you know, when it's time for someone to seek help, whether that's through- Mm a therapist or even having a conversation through our friends at Face It Foundation or, say, at our Beehive Initiative? 00:16:20.171 --> 00:16:23.480 I think it's changes in people, Um, changes that we see. 00:16:23.500 --> 00:16:38.903 I was a different person around everybody on campus, um, around neighbors than I was at home, than I was in the locker room, Because again, kind of like when we talked about f- facing, like who are the, we the meanest to, right? 00:16:38.903 --> 00:16:40.604 Who do we joke with the most sometimes? 00:16:40.683 --> 00:16:40.783 Mm-hmm. 00:16:40.854 --> 00:16:45.254 Well, who do you think saw my depression, anxiety the most? 00:16:46.014 --> 00:16:47.634 My wife, my kids, my team. 00:16:48.645 --> 00:16:56.739 the entities that I love the most, right, were the worst two, because I think we feel kind of safe, I didn't act like that to the neighbors. 00:16:56.999 --> 00:16:59.078 I didn't like that, act like that to other coaches. 00:16:59.078 --> 00:17:04.125 I didn't act like that to students or professors across campus, because I didn't feel as safe. 00:17:05.025 --> 00:17:08.204 But in this area, my wife and kids would always be there. 00:17:08.375 --> 00:17:10.005 The team was always there. 00:17:10.105 --> 00:17:11.285 We take it out on them. 00:17:11.484 --> 00:17:27.454 So to see those changes and ask, like,"Are you doing okay?" You know, I, I remember after my incident when I took a leave from the team that year, um, the first p- coach I talked to after a week, I first talked to Mike Sertich because he was my... 00:17:27.825 --> 00:17:31.434 He worked with me for a couple of years, and a, a great friend. 00:17:31.444 --> 00:17:35.555 He was a great coach, but more importantly, just a great person I could talk to. 00:17:36.095 --> 00:17:53.343 Um, and he said to me,"You know, I was at a game a couple weeks ago, and I just noticed something, and I wish I would've said something." And I told him,"I'm glad you didn't," because I wasn't ready for the help, and I would've just denied it, I would've hit it deeper figuring,"I gotta hide this more," right? 00:17:53.353 --> 00:17:55.442 It's a panic of, uh-oh, is it visible? 00:17:55.452 --> 00:17:55.823 Right. 00:17:55.823 --> 00:17:58.502 I don't want people to see this, Because it's not a good sign. 00:17:59.222 --> 00:18:06.863 And then the next person a week later was Dana Moore, our volleyball coach, and Dana said to me,"Mark, I've known you for 20 years. 00:18:07.423 --> 00:18:14.042 I would have never guessed you had depression." And when she said that, it was like, it's out there. 00:18:14.553 --> 00:18:15.282

The gig's up. 00:18:15.810 --> 00:18:20.230 I don't have to carry this around anymore, It was such a freeing thing, you know? 00:18:20.230 --> 00:18:23.050 And I told her,"I know," because we don't want people to know. 00:18:23.050 --> 00:18:23.840 We hide it. 00:18:24.381 --> 00:18:32.980 But it had gotten so heavy that I couldn't carry it anymore, and that was just a freeing thing, and at that point, it's like, I don't have to hide this anymore. 00:18:33.867 --> 00:18:38.978 like I said, I was a lucky one to be able to, to share that because I was still around. 00:18:42.887 --> 00:18:45.678 You are from the old school of coaching. 00:18:46.077 --> 00:18:46.248 Yep. 00:18:47.377 --> 00:18:49.278 Has the culture changed a little bit? 00:18:49.448 --> 00:18:58.479 Or how has it evolved in the locker room if a, if a player notices something either in a teammate or even someone on the coaching staff that is a bit of a red flag? 00:18:59.689 --> 00:19:04.679 Are, are people feel more freely to talk about that, acknowledge that in private and, and be discreet about it? 00:19:04.679 --> 00:19:09.115 Or is it still a h- is it a really one-way power vacuum? 00:19:09.964 --> 00:19:10.194 Yep. 00:19:11.185 --> 00:19:11.875 yes to both. 00:19:11.935 --> 00:19:12.346 Okay. 00:19:12.556 --> 00:19:16.439 Be- because, um, you talked about the old school coaches, right? 00:19:16.951 --> 00:19:21.568 Where do we learn a lot of things, Well, people don't necessarily teach us how to coach. 00:19:22.028 --> 00:19:23.759 They model it. 00:19:24.298 --> 00:19:39.009 So who are our models, you know, I wasn't the type of coach I wanted to be, But I didn't have the training on how to be that coach, If you looked at my office, I saw I had books from, Tony Dungy, Phil Jackson. 00:19:39.009 --> 00:19:39.980 Phil Jackson, I was gonna say. 00:19:39.990 --> 00:19:40.009 Yeah. 00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:40.269 Yep. 00:19:40.390 --> 00:19:41.869 Tho- those kind of coaches, right? 00:19:41.869 --> 00:19:49.970 The, the coach that, you know, I admired maybe the most,'cause I was a grad assistant at Bowling Green, when he was still coaching, that was Jerry York, right? 00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:52.930 And this is a coach that all-time winning-est college coach. 00:19:53.940 --> 00:19:55.289 Players never heard him swear. 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:56.259 Is he Boston? 00:19:56.460 --> 00:19:57.539 He was Boston College. 00:19:57.680 --> 00:19:57.920 Yep. 00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:08.555 Um, he beat UMD, for the national title at Bowling Green in the four overtimes, and then, um, went to Boston College, his alma mater, won another handful of national titles. 00:20:08.555 --> 00:20:11.684 But you know, his thing was he was calm. 00:20:11.855 --> 00:20:13.184 He couldn't tell anything, right? 00:20:14.404 --> 00:20:21.365 I had that, But I was more like the, um, Mike Keenan, um, Bobby Knight, right? 00:20:21.775 --> 00:20:25.505 Um, you know, in tennis I remember being young, I wanted to be Björn Borg. 00:20:25.704 --> 00:20:27.154 I was Ivan Lendl, right? 00:20:27.184 --> 00:20:28.345 You don't know those guys, but- I do. 00:20:28.345 --> 00:20:31.335 I know those guys but, but Ivan, uh- Wimbledon in the early'80s? 00:20:31.335 --> 00:20:31.347 Absolutely. 00:20:31.347 --> 00:20:33.744 Yeah, and, and Björn was the guy that you couldn't tell how he was doing. 00:20:33.775 --> 00:20:33.884 No. 00:20:33.904 --> 00:20:35.744 And Ilie would be the one breaking rackets. 00:20:35.775 --> 00:20:36.015 Mm-hmm. 00:20:36.611 --> 00:20:37.840 Because we weren't taught that way. 00:20:37.891 --> 00:20:39.631 Now, I will say this. 00:20:39.800 --> 00:20:49.121 There's some young coaches out there and, um, and some of the older coaches that have transitioned, they get it, and they're having these, right? 00:20:49.161 --> 00:20:53.750 I work with a handful of, um, Division I teams right now on mental health. 00:20:54.270 --> 00:20:54.641 Great. 00:20:54.651 --> 00:20:55.941 On c- mental performance, right? 00:20:55.941 --> 00:21:01.141 They have me in the locker room to talk about this stuff because they understand the importance of it, right? 00:21:01.141 --> 00:21:12.571 We always talk about the importance of the mental game, but we don't do anything with it, we have coaches, you know, hollering, screaming,"Focus, relax." Well, A, they're screaming, they're not relaxed themselves. 00:21:13.092 --> 00:21:19.071 But we don't teach kids how to do that stuff It's like telling a child,"I'm going to give you something to cry about" while a child is crying. 00:21:19.342 --> 00:21:19.751 Really? 00:21:19.751 --> 00:21:20.241 Exactly. 00:21:20.261 --> 00:21:20.412 Yeah. 00:21:20.422 --> 00:21:20.451 Right? 00:21:20.461 --> 00:21:27.261 When you're peeling the paint off the walls, screaming at your team, telling them to mentally focus and, and relax. 00:21:27.866 --> 00:21:28.916 but that, that's the way... 00:21:29.866 --> 00:21:33.156 We don't have enough time to talk about this, but that's the way our mental health system is set up. 00:21:33.686 --> 00:21:34.787 We wait till crisis. 00:21:35.237 --> 00:21:39.166 It's like, I always say, it's like giving swimming lessons when somebody's drowning. 00:21:39.910 --> 00:21:41.329 It doesn't work that well, right? 00:21:41.329 --> 00:21:43.579 We have to be on the front end and be more proactive. 00:21:43.928 --> 00:21:47.928 I think that's what, you know, you're doing with this initiative, is you're being proactive. 00:21:47.928 --> 00:21:52.518 You're giving the out- the, the platform for people just to talk about it. 00:21:52.887 --> 00:21:56.719 Because I think at the end of the day, there is a stigma. 00:21:57.798 --> 00:22:09.038 But I also think, especially guys, my experience, is we wanna talk about it, but we also wanna know, and I don't like this term, but we also wanna know it's safe. 00:22:09.517 --> 00:22:14.227 That we're not gonna be judged, that it's not gonna be held against us. 00:22:14.797 -->

00:22:21.994 But, you know, one of the things a lot of times, and I felt this way, and, and people always say,"Nobody gets what I'm going through." Yeah. 00:22:22.444 --> 00:22:25.154 Um,"I feel like I'm on an island.""I'm the only one." Yep. 00:22:26.275 --> 00:22:37.345 And man, that island is packed because, you know, we know all, of, you know, get in a room and have people count off by three or four and stand up. 00:22:37.345 --> 00:22:43.424 You know, you got 100 people in a room, 25% of them have a mental illness. 00:22:43.684 --> 00:22:44.545 They're diagnosed. 00:22:46.285 --> 00:22:50.214 And another large handful have it also, they're just not diagnosed. 00:22:50.535 --> 00:22:53.845 Like, I wasn't one of that stat 30 years ago. 00:22:54.555 --> 00:23:01.261 You know, right now it's, it's been 11 years, I wasn't one of those stats'cause I never got diagnosed,'cause guess what? 00:23:01.261 --> 00:23:02.632 If you don't go in, you don't get diagnosed. 00:23:02.672 --> 00:23:03.721 Mm-hmm. 00:23:03.961 --> 00:23:05.041 Doesn't mean I didn't have it. 00:23:05.311 --> 00:23:11.291 So when we know of the numbers, they're that much higher because people aren't willing to do it. 00:23:11.301 --> 00:23:19.382 Yet you get in an environment where you know that it's safe and people start to share their stories, it's like, what? 00:23:20.192 --> 00:23:21.201 I feel that same way. 00:23:21.692 --> 00:23:23.311 I didn't think anybody else felt that way. 00:23:23.362 --> 00:23:28.211 Or especially the guy across the room that I assumed had his life was- Absolutely perfect. 00:23:28.372 --> 00:23:28.481 Yeah. 00:23:28.481 --> 00:23:30.751 Ab- like, you got it all together. 00:23:30.761 --> 00:23:31.551 I'm like, really? 00:23:32.162 --> 00:23:33.142 Not even close. 00:23:33.172 --> 00:23:33.432 No. 00:23:33.829 --> 00:23:35.190 but what do we show people? 00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:36.700 What we want them to see. 00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:37.690 Wear a mask. 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:38.779 Absolutely. 00:23:39.172 --> 00:23:46.724 and, and that's where when they know it's safe to talk about, boy, you'd be amazed at the things that they're willing to share. 00:23:47.224 --> 00:23:50.924 And once you share it, take some of that burden off. 00:23:51.704 --> 00:23:52.275 You're not alone. 00:23:52.684 --> 00:23:53.275 Absolutely. 00:23:56.426 --> 00:24:03.126 If you want a calmer or happier life, you need to address small problems while they're still small. 00:24:04.186 --> 00:24:07.676 The cost of dealing with an issue rarely gets cheaper with time. 00:24:08.517 --> 00:24:12.807 Procrastination turns uncomfortable things into unavoidable things. 00:24:14.527 --> 00:24:18.116 That could even apply to a home project I don't wanna do just yet. 00:24:18.586 --> 00:24:18.967 Yep. 00:24:19.217 --> 00:24:29.323 When it's forced upon-- But as far as that applies to our mental health And not worrying about being gossiped about or judged. 00:24:30.353 --> 00:24:44.025 A big part of our motivator in partnering with the FACE IT Foundation is that we had a number of members of our Masonic fraternity seeking help or guidance on the things you and I are talking about today elsewhere. 00:24:44.545 --> 00:24:54.404 Which is great, but their feedback was,"I'm not comfortable sharing this, even privately, with someone I, I know and trust in my, in my lodge." Mm-hmm. 00:24:54.454 --> 00:25:15.116 And that's a big warning sign to me, or a red flag, that we are the purveyors of brotherhood and friendship, and the goal of the beehive initiative is to make brotherhood something we can, like I said earlier, it's not an abstract concept or a buzzword that we just say because it's in the script or it's part of the fraternity. 00:25:16.028 --> 00:25:17.848 how can we be there for each other? 00:25:19.108 --> 00:25:46.852 And to your earlier point, when you see the signs in someone, not calling them out in a gotcha sort of manner- No but in a,"Hey, how are you doing?" And then when we get past the platitudes,"How are you really doing?" And answering honestly D- did we miss any things that other misconceptions that m- m- men specifically have before they'll say,"Hey, I need to talk"? 00:25:47.301 --> 00:25:56.780 Well, I, I think it's, it's breaking down those barriers that something's wrong with you, that, um, that it is weakness. 00:25:57.351 --> 00:26:00.221 It's being vulnerable is, is weakness. 00:26:00.911 --> 00:26:08.960 And, you know, ju- just, just like I tell people that we all have physical health, You ever been sick? 00:26:09.549 --> 00:26:09.940 Yeah. 00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:11.630 You ever been injured, hurt? 00:26:12.019 --> 00:26:12.250 Right. 00:26:12.299 --> 00:26:30.624 That ha- And what happens when that happens, is that we either stay home and rest or eat our chicken soup, or we maybe go see a doctor if it goes on for a period of time, Or we have to go in for other things, But it goes on this continuum, and we wanna get it back to healthy, right? 00:26:30.903 --> 00:26:36.784 Well, understand that mental health doesn't necessarily mean mental illness. 00:26:38.463 --> 00:26:42.854 if you have somebody lose a loved one, they're gonna be depressed. 00:26:43.644 --> 00:26:47.163 It doesn't mean they have depression, but they're gonna be depressed. 00:26:47.314 --> 00:26:55.445 Now, what do they do with that, Well, they can talk to somebody, or they can go out and get drunk and- Mm-hmm ignore it, deny it. 00:26:55.445 --> 00:26:55.965 Self-medicate. 00:26:55.996 --> 00:26:59.709 Self-medicate, Numb it, And it's... 00:26:59.729 --> 00:27:04.439 We, we all go through those things, and that's normal because we all have mental health. 00:27:04.989 --> 00:27:10.288 I think sometimes we don't admit it because I don't wanna have mental illness. 00:27:10.288 --> 00:27:12.179 I don't wanna be diagnosable, right? 00:27:12.179 --> 00:27:14.469 That's one of the things I don't like about our mental health system. 00:27:15.308

--> 00:27:16.669 And again, it's different for different people. 00:27:16.669 --> 00:27:20.278 Some people, it gives them an understanding on,"Well, there's nothing wrong with me. 00:27:21.068 --> 00:27:22.068 This is an illness. 00:27:22.388 --> 00:27:23.048 I didn't cause this. 00:27:23.048 --> 00:27:28.319 I didn't want this," But for other people, it's that label, but I think we're getting past that. 00:27:28.700 --> 00:27:32.839 But when you go to therapy, they have to diagnose it, or they're not gonna get paid for it. 00:27:32.930 --> 00:27:33.299 Yeah. 00:27:33.430 --> 00:27:33.809 You know? 00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:53.539 Uh, we don't do as much of the preventative stuff, Now, there's ways that we as therapists can get around that, and we do, but people don't understand that, and it's, it's the, the comfortableness of talking and then understanding you're not alone and hearing stories from others that gives us the power. 00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:55.650 But it, it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you. 00:27:55.769 --> 00:27:57.680 It doesn't mean that you have a mental illness. 00:27:58.450 --> 00:27:59.799 I think that just nailed it, though. 00:28:01.180 --> 00:28:09.240 I would assume so many men equate just the concept of mental health with, uh-oh, it equals mental illness, which it does not. 00:28:09.250 --> 00:28:14.500 Mental health is just dealing with life and the rollercoaster that we all experience every day. 00:28:14.529 --> 00:28:14.950 Absolutely. 00:28:15.049 --> 00:28:21.019 Day in and day out, the stress of relationships and kids and jobs and finances. 00:28:22.220 --> 00:28:30.170 Mental health is no different, or is parallel to our physical health or the other aspects that we address No, no, I, I, I think you're dead on. 00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:38.247 Like, you're gonna go for a job interview, would you be willing to have somebody look at your resume to say,"Hey, how can I spice this up? 00:28:38.287 --> 00:28:39.727 How can this really help me?" Right? 00:28:39.866 --> 00:28:40.747 Yeah, another set of eyes. 00:28:41.007 --> 00:28:41.166 Yeah. 00:28:41.717 --> 00:28:46.987 Are you okay with going to somebody and saying,"Hey, I get so anxious at these things, I freeze up"? 00:28:47.752 --> 00:28:48.992 That's, that's your mental... 00:28:48.992 --> 00:28:55.303 That, that means you- your anxiety gets so high that you can't perform the way you want to. 00:28:55.923 --> 00:28:57.413 Well, there's ways to deal with that. 00:28:57.883 --> 00:29:01.863 That doesn't mean you have anxiety, a diagnosable anxiety. 00:29:02.242 --> 00:29:03.522 It just means that's normal. 00:29:03.663 --> 00:29:04.633 We get super anxious. 00:29:04.653 --> 00:29:05.252 You're human. 00:29:05.363 --> 00:29:05.923 Exactly. 00:29:06.153 --> 00:29:09.363 but we look at it as differently, like, I don't wanna do that. 00:29:09.373 --> 00:29:14.319 When I work, I say I work with these teams, It is really tough on what's my title. 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:22.210 'Cause if you say mental health- Yeah we're having somebody come in and speak about mental health- Coach is gonna think I'm- a lot of the kids tune out. 00:29:22.250 --> 00:29:22.410 Yeah. 00:29:22.460 --> 00:29:22.720 Right? 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:31.809 Because,"Well, I don't have a mental illness." I know, but you have mental health, and we wanna give you these tools, But it's got this negative connotation, like- So what do you call it then? 00:29:32.269 --> 00:29:33.180 Mental performance. 00:29:33.289 --> 00:29:33.559 Okay. 00:29:33.650 --> 00:29:52.740 Mental skills coach, We're just talking about tools to regulate ourselves, I wish, if I'da had these tools, Um, I always tell people, if I'da had these tools and known these things I know now 30 years ago, man, I would've been a much better coach. 00:29:53.590 --> 00:29:55.161 I would've been a much better husband. 00:29:55.971 --> 00:29:57.411 I'd have been a much better father. 00:29:58.026 --> 00:30:01.976 But more importantly is, I would've l- lived life a lot happier. 00:30:02.395 --> 00:30:03.526 I would've enjoyed life more. 00:30:04.994 --> 00:30:12.919 And that's what we have to understand, that our mental health affects everything that we do, You can have a broken ankle and still go to class. 00:30:12.929 --> 00:30:19.148 You can still be a good husband, father, son, brother, um, those things. 00:30:20.199 --> 00:30:28.288 But if your mental health is bad, then it's tough to be a good husband, father, son, brother, all those things. 00:30:29.008 --> 00:30:37.448 that's why the mental health piece we really have to talk about and be willing to work on and share what we are experiencing'cause people can't see it. 00:30:40.348 --> 00:30:44.328 I love one of your quotes that said,"Depression is not your problem. 00:30:44.848 --> 00:30:49.989 Your problem is you don't do anything about your depression." It's one of the first things my therapist said to me. 00:30:50.384 --> 00:30:56.295 I, I was very blessed because my wife, an amazing woman, is well-connected in the medical field. 00:30:57.005 --> 00:31:00.305 my incident happened January 31st on a Saturday night. 00:31:00.934 --> 00:31:05.015 Monday morning, I was in to see a psychiatrist at the University of Minnesota. 00:31:06.164 --> 00:31:06.964 That doesn't happen. 00:31:08.096 --> 00:31:10.747 If I'd had an appointment in March, I would've gone. 00:31:11.207 --> 00:31:15.346 I'd have talked my way out of it by then, or at least when I went, I wouldn't have been honest, right? 00:31:15.356 --> 00:31:15.386 Mm-hmm. 00:31:16.027 --> 00:31:19.317 Um, Wednesday I went to see a therapist in Duluth. 00:31:19.426 --> 00:31:20.696 I told my wife,"I'll start here. 00:31:20.696 --> 00:31:35.750 I got this name from somebody, but it's a starting point, but I gotta wait to find somebody I can be open and honest with." Um, I ended up seeing that guy from February of 2015 till, April of 2018 when I left Duluth. 00:31:36.320 -->

00:31:42.711 Had I known what I know now with Zoom, I'd probably still be seeing him, but we didn't have that back then. 00:31:42.711 --> 00:31:52.961 So, um, in my first meeting, one of the first things he said to me was,"Depression is not your problem." I'm like,"Yes." He's like,"The fact you don't take care of your depression, that's your problem. 00:31:53.641 --> 00:31:58.785 Like deal with it," If you, if you have diabetes and don't deal with it, you're probably gonna have health conditions, right? 00:31:59.287 --> 00:32:00.346 A lot of people have this. 00:32:00.787 --> 00:32:01.336 Deal with it. 00:32:02.207 --> 00:32:07.497 And I decided to take control of my depression because before that, my depression controlled me. 00:32:08.386 --> 00:32:11.396 So that, that's a message that I give to everybody. 00:32:11.406 --> 00:32:12.267 That's so solid. 00:32:12.686 --> 00:32:24.770 And I think one of the things that Faces stress is that I appreci- appreciate about them is that- We can talk about it, but we have to do more than talk about it. 00:32:24.840 --> 00:32:25.931 We have to work on it. 00:32:26.320 --> 00:32:27.371 We have to do the work. 00:32:27.381 --> 00:32:33.707 We were talking about that earlier, my office at the school, I had to walk by the weight room for 15, 14 years. 00:32:34.446 --> 00:32:35.727 I never got in better shape. 00:32:36.446 --> 00:32:37.886 Apparently, you had to use equipment. 00:32:38.126 --> 00:32:38.797 Huh, weird. 00:32:38.797 --> 00:32:39.287 You have to do the work? 00:32:39.396 --> 00:32:39.596 Yeah. 00:32:39.636 --> 00:32:39.936 What? 00:32:39.936 --> 00:32:43.676 Exactly, we have to do the work, and it's not always easy. 00:32:44.452 --> 00:32:48.133 because sometimes we gotta look in that mirror, and sometimes we don't like what we see. 00:32:49.083 --> 00:32:50.673 But we have to understand, we can change that. 00:32:51.413 --> 00:32:52.673 That doesn't mean that's who we have to be. 00:32:53.090 --> 00:33:00.750 I can say it's well worth it deferring reality and being stuck in that rumination trap. 00:33:01.709 --> 00:33:08.388 It's like a case study in how bright people can be capable of not seeing what they don't wanna see. 00:33:08.828 --> 00:33:09.068 Mm-hmm. 00:33:10.227 --> 00:33:14.957 And the way you explained it, that it's-- this is just another facet of our overall health. 00:33:15.287 --> 00:33:19.359 It doesn't mean somebody is not well overall. 00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:21.869 It, it's just going through the rigors of life. 00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:28.480 But it's the one thing we cling to and just so reluctant to just have a conversation. 00:33:29.630 --> 00:33:31.729 This has been super helpful today. 00:33:31.769 --> 00:33:37.038 I re- can't thank you enough for, for coming in and sharing some of your, your own story. 00:33:37.068 --> 00:33:39.098 And as you look back on... 00:33:40.038 --> 00:33:45.939 Like, what other piece of advice would you give your younger self, or if you go back to

2015 or before that even? 00:33:47.548 --> 00:33:52.968 Be open and honest with yourself and share the way you feel. 00:33:53.438 --> 00:33:54.698 It's okay to be vulnerable. 00:33:55.683 --> 00:34:15.952 um, we're gonna look at things differently because of our lived experiences But at the end of the day, how do we want it to be, If I wanted to be like a Tony Dungy, like a Phil Jackson, like a Jerry York, I should have learned how to be like that. 00:34:17.092 --> 00:34:19.262 I just thought I could do all this stuff myself. 00:34:19.572 --> 00:34:21.833 Yet there's other things we don't do ourselves. 00:34:21.833 --> 00:34:26.512 We get help for our taxes, we get help to fix our cars, we get help from a doctor, right? 00:34:27.282 --> 00:34:32.262 Teach me how to control my emotions'cause I, I couldn't control my emotions. 00:34:32.822 --> 00:34:33.262 Okay. 00:34:34.262 --> 00:34:35.233 Learn how to do that. 00:34:36.043 --> 00:34:40.172 I wasn't willing to reach out because now that's a weakness on my part. 00:34:40.753 --> 00:34:45.833 you know, reach out, be open, be honest with yourself and with others. 00:34:46.472 --> 00:34:49.601 but at the same time, for some of us, we do have an illness. 00:34:49.672 --> 00:34:50.922 I do have an illness. 00:34:51.342 --> 00:34:53.572 I'm not here to, to push this or not. 00:34:53.762 --> 00:34:56.161 Um, I'm on medication. 00:34:57.311 --> 00:34:59.371 I know some people that have been on medication, got off medication. 00:34:59.402 --> 00:35:00.501 That's fine, right? 00:35:00.961 --> 00:35:04.242 People have told me,"Well, I, I don't wanna take medication." Okay. 00:35:05.132 --> 00:35:05.802 But what now? 00:35:06.702 --> 00:35:14.905 'Cause doing nothing is an option, and I tried that option for many years, and I wouldn't say it's a good one, But do something. 00:35:15.865 --> 00:35:17.925 this isn't a choice of mine. 00:35:18.025 --> 00:35:19.686 I didn't choose to have depression. 00:35:19.686 --> 00:35:21.686 I didn't say someday,"God, I hope I get depression. 00:35:21.686 --> 00:35:23.235 That'd be so cool." Wouldn't that be swell? 00:35:23.335 --> 00:35:23.516 Yeah. 00:35:23.516 --> 00:35:24.076 Woo-hoo. 00:35:24.577 --> 00:35:29.197 but it doesn't have to define me either, but it did for a long time. 00:35:29.197 --> 00:35:31.277 Now I, you know, I control it now. 00:35:31.407 --> 00:35:33.556 I define myself what I wanna do. 00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:48.679 And, you know, for me, I wish we would've had these messages, I wish we would've had these podcasts, you know, when I was younger, and I wish I would've listened to them, because the one thing about this is this does not discriminate. 00:35:49.369 --> 00:35:52.619 Mental illness does not discriminate. 00:35:53.019 --> 00:35:57.269 Young, old, rich, poor, male, female, white, Black, it doesn't matter, right? 00:35:57.269 --> 00:36:03.989 And again, we talked about this earlier off, um, the podcast about, you know, pro athletes, right? 00:36:04.409 --> 00:36:09.110 Just'cause they sign a$10 million contract doesn't mean they're immune from getting injured now. 00:36:09.860 --> 00:36:20.414 Doesn't mean they're immune from not having mental health challenges, But yet everybody looks at them or, or we look at ourselves and say like,"How could I have mental... 00:36:20.943 --> 00:36:22.313 Why would I have depression? 00:36:22.693 --> 00:36:23.614 I got a great life. 00:36:23.664 --> 00:36:26.833 I got great kids, a great wife." Like,"I don't have that." You have everything. 00:36:27.143 --> 00:36:27.164 Yeah. 00:36:27.193 --> 00:36:27.333 Right? 00:36:27.574 --> 00:36:30.583 Or,"Well, I shouldn't be sad. 00:36:31.373 --> 00:36:32.684 I have it better than other people. 00:36:32.684 --> 00:36:40.583 They have it worse than me." Well, they do, but this isn't a competition, and it doesn't mean you're immune to this. 00:36:40.853 --> 00:36:48.244 This is an illness, and it's a, it's a very tough illness, but you can control it too. 00:36:48.784 --> 00:36:59.286 80, you know, um- 80% of people that get help for depression, now we're talking about the diagnosable piece, 80% of people that get help for that recover. 00:37:00.795 --> 00:37:01.606 It's a pretty good stat. 00:37:01.635 --> 00:37:02.096 That's big. 00:37:02.596 --> 00:37:02.865 You know? 00:37:02.865 --> 00:37:32.760 I mean, if, if we said,"Hey, 80% of people that have this disease or that disease rec- uh, recover," we'd be like,"Okay, I'm gonna get through this." but I think the first step is talking about it, and that's what you guys are doing at The Masons, and that's what I appreciate so much, that, as a person that lives with this, I think hearing the things that you're doing, even having this podcast, means so much because it moves the needle, that it's making change. 00:37:33.443 --> 00:37:36.188 Face It, again, um... 00:37:37.202 --> 00:37:41.172 Well, just for transparency, Mark and Bill, you know, they, they run the place. 00:37:42.132 --> 00:37:55.003 I go there, and, Since I moved to the cities in 2018, I got introduced to Face It by an old college teammate of mine, and I've been going to Face It every other week since 2018. 00:37:55.612 --> 00:37:59.742 Um, I've been in, you know, two or three groups at a time'cause I'm a mess. 00:38:00.264 --> 00:38:14.967 but it's so rewarding to go there and be able to be honest and open with other guys that get me, that get it, and, and I think there's nothing stronger than that peer support, right? 00:38:14.998 --> 00:38:21.648 And again, hey, there's, there's professional support and that stuff, but that peer support is so important to realize you're not alone. 00:38:22.748 --> 00:38:26.418 And that's the culture shift that we are seeking in our Masonic circles. 00:38:27.027 --> 00:38:27.807 And you're creating. 00:38:28.909 --> 00:38:39.882 So I appreciate that If a stranger had to live your life for 24 hours, what would they probably screw up the most? 00:38:41.318 -->

00:38:46.668 Uh, n- probably not much,'cause I screw most of it up myself, so that would probably be an improvement for them. 00:38:47.009 --> 00:38:49.688 Um, what would they screw up the most? 00:38:50.188 --> 00:38:55.608 Maybe being late for things, but I do that myself, so that's a, that's a tough one. 00:38:56.028 --> 00:38:59.864 You stumped me What's been your favorite age? 00:39:02.001 --> 00:39:04.518 You know, that, that's a great question. 00:39:04.518 --> 00:39:07.329 We-- Somebody asked that the other day. 00:39:07.329 --> 00:39:11.028 We were talking, a group of us, what age would you like to go back to, if you could? 00:39:11.416 --> 00:39:15.646 Cause I'm in my, um, 60s. 00:39:16.195 --> 00:39:25.052 I would say, my late 50s to early 60s, since 2015, the last 11 years, because I've been healthy. 00:39:25.612 --> 00:39:29.211 Now, I would l- that's been my favorite time. 00:39:29.211 --> 00:39:42.032 Now, I had experiences in all those other ones, but I'm doing things now where I can actually enjoy them,'cause I wasn't enjoying things back then, and that gets into a whole nother thing we don't have time to talk about, but being present. 00:39:43.141 --> 00:39:47.681 I'm able to be much more present now and enjoy these things because I got the help. 00:39:48.130 --> 00:39:51.240 But I would say the last 10 years I've really enjoyed. 00:39:52.641 --> 00:39:56.222 The flip side of the card says: What's been your least favorite age, and why? 00:39:57.195 --> 00:40:20.251 probably my 40s because at that time I was so busy I opened up a gym and then I got back into coaching I was so busy and I wasn't in a good mental spot that, I just wasn't around as much and I wasn't the person that I wish I could have been at that point What is the best thing you've ever splurged on? 00:40:21.913 --> 00:40:27.822 I, I would say for me, my, my wife would la- laugh at this because splurge for me takes a long time. 00:40:28.362 --> 00:40:33.592 I bought a fishing boat, probably about'14, 2014. 00:40:34.242 --> 00:40:35.313 I just love going out... 00:40:35.362 --> 00:40:39.152 Uh, we were living up in Duluth at the time, just going out on lakes. 00:40:39.367 --> 00:40:41.106 that, that was something just for me. 00:40:41.347 --> 00:40:43.737 You know, I was the only one in our family. 00:40:43.737 --> 00:40:44.697 The kids didn't fish. 00:40:44.706 --> 00:40:46.927 My wife didn't like to go out, you know, fishing all the time. 00:40:46.927 --> 00:40:48.126 She liked to go out and sit in the boat. 00:40:48.157 --> 00:41:09.081 But, probably that fishing boat, and it was the toughest thing to get rid of when we moved down to the cities in 2018 because that was kind of my way to get out at the time and just be by myself and, and have some, some quiet time What's something you'd like to learn how to do at this point in life? 00:41:11.271 --> 00:41:11.922 Oh, man. 00:41:12.411 --> 00:41:13.231 play the guitar. 00:41:14.581 --> 00:41:21.221 And I bought a guitar in Probably 1993 I was coaching at Augsburg at the time. 00:41:21.221 --> 00:41:22.240 We were living in the cities. 00:41:22.740 --> 00:41:29.141 I went to one of these, Schmidt or something, to take some lessons or whatever, but never really learned how to play it. 00:41:29.181 --> 00:41:32.710 And, you know, I was coaching, recruiting, busy, and then kids came and all that stuff. 00:41:32.951 --> 00:41:48.735 I have that guitar, and we've moved with it, and my wife's like,"Can we just get rid of this?" I'm like,"Nope, I'm gonna learn how to play it." I go on YouTube every now and then and look up for some stuff and, and I'll practice for a little while, and my fingers don't work that way, and I get so frustrated, but I'm not getting rid of that thing. 00:41:49.115 --> 00:41:51.175 Um, I'm gonna learn to play that guitar. 00:41:51.858 --> 00:41:54.639 You won't be Eddie Van Halen overnight- but you gotta keep at it. 00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:55.188 I know. 00:41:55.568 --> 00:41:56.139 I know. 00:41:56.438 --> 00:41:59.358 But one of my strengths isn't patience. 00:41:59.675 --> 00:41:59.755 Uh-huh. 00:41:59.755 --> 00:42:00.976 I wanna play it, and I wanna play it now. 00:42:00.976 --> 00:42:01.266 Right. 00:42:01.826 --> 00:42:02.076 With anything. 00:42:02.085 --> 00:42:14.639 But, I am gonna learn how to play that guitar Mark Wick, this has been a fantastic conversation and very enlightening for all of us to realize this takes work. 00:42:15.219 --> 00:42:15.440 Mm-hmm. 00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:16.179 It takes commitment. 00:42:16.820 --> 00:42:23.449 We can talk about it or we can do something about it and really help one another through this journey of life. 00:42:23.952 --> 00:42:38.793 And I appreciate being on here and having this opportunity just to talk about it, like I said before, and hopefully start the conversations when, you know, people listen to this, they can go to somebody else and say,"Hey, I heard, you know, these guys talk, and it made me think about this. 00:42:38.833 --> 00:42:42.298 How are you doing?" if I can just end with a couple messages. 00:42:42.298 --> 00:42:55.911 Number one, I think that, we don't always know how many people care for us and love us, and it doesn't always feel that way, but that is true, and people would be devastated if anything happened to you. 00:42:56.474 --> 00:42:59.704 you know, try to remember that and reach out to those people and let them know. 00:43:00.005 --> 00:43:05.228 And I think the other thing that we need right now in this world is we need much more kindness. 00:43:05.838 --> 00:43:13.757 We don't know what that person next to us is going through, and our, ability to be kind to them might make a difference in their world. 00:43:14.518 --> 00:43:23.737 But at the same time, I challenge people to try to be kind to themselves because that's the one person that sometimes we're really, really mean to. 00:43:24.456 --> 00:43:28.215 So give yourself some grace, give yourself some compassion. 00:43:28.346 --> 00:43:31.556 So be kind to others, but more importantly, be kind to yourself.