บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ David Corry: Squadron Commander and Insurance Executive

the field, go anywhere, deploy the radar, you have your own power generators, um uh communications devices, the radar that you set up, the operational vans. 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:41.600 Um and once you get all that set up, you have the ability to basically uh scan about 250 miles out uh to control uh airplanes and uh monitor airspace. 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:48.399 So this type of radar, I assume, then you know, is to detect enemy uh plane movement? 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:50.480 We did we did a lot of that. 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:56.879 So um uh ultimately went uh three years or four years later, I got my undergrad degree, I I decided to stay in. 00:04:57.040 --> 00:05:00.000 I thought the six years was went by pretty quick. 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:14.800 I was four years into it, and uh so I expressed an interest to become an officer, and some vacancies came up, and I uh I uh uh met a board and tested and physically and was selected from the board to go to officer school. 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:18.480 Uh and at that time, then but then I became an actual controller. 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:23.680 So what we we were special, I was at an air battle manager at that time I entitled switched over. 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:30.399 I was gone for about a year between uh officer school and specialty school for the Air Force to learn how to become a controller. 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:34.720 Um but we could do we do air-to-air missions, so air control missions. 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:46.319 So your classic, like you see in the movies where you know two fighter jets chase a fighter and and intercept, uh, and then uh a lot of air refueling missions and then air-to-ground missions. 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:46.800 Wow. 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:50.879 And was your officer training school at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama, or where did you go from the US? 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:52.800 Actually, it was Air National Guard. 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:54.480 They have their own Air Force school. 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:56.959 Uh it's down in Tennessee in Knoxville, Tennessee. 00:05:57.279 --> 00:05:58.000 Okay, gotcha. 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:03.199 And so while you were at USC, I see that you were a finance and insurance double major. 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:08.480 So, you know, a lot of folks that I talked to in the insurance industry, they didn't necessarily start out there. 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:10.399 They found their way to insurance. 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:14.000 But it seems like you developed an interest pretty early on in your career. 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:15.279 How did that come about? 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:23.839 So I was majoring in finance, and I didn't see at that time envision myself going to work in banking. 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:38.399 Um, not that it didn't attract me, but I felt like in the early mid 80s, I thought it was, and I guess it's even more so true today, but I thought specialization was important uh and and really being lasered in in a certain

area of finance. 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:44.800 Uh and uh I had an opportunity to get exposure to some insurance professionals. 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:47.040 I thought it was very interesting. 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:50.879 Uh you know, when I go on-campus recruiting, the banks were there, right? 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:54.319 The large investment companies, and everybody signed up for those interviews. 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:59.199 And he kind of looked over at the insurance companies, and there's not a few, not too many people signed up. 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:01.120 So uh it attracted me. 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:05.439 And I I um I set I you know seeked out that opportunity. 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:15.839 Uh and while while I was in college in Cincinnati, I actually met an individual, introduced myself, and ultimately uh worked that he owned an insurance agency in Cincinnati. 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:20.399 And so I I offered to go work for him part-time, and he accepted. 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:27.439 And he was gracious enough to send me uh during one of the uh winter breaks to license agent licensing school. 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:36.160 So I studied the exams and passed actually passed my property casuality and life and health insurance broker license for Ohio just to get more exposure to the industry. 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:45.600 I mean, straight out of undergrad, you were launched into an insurance career, which which really kind of set a path for you through uh and a trajectory for you. 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:58.240 You know, it did because I at the time when I ultimately found a job in um so I graduated undergrad and I was gone for a year, so I couldn't really join an insurance company because I was I was I told everybody I'd love to work for you, but I had to go away for a year. 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:01.680 Like, we'll come back at a year and see if it's still a job for you. 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:08.399 Um but when I ultimately got back uh from all that training, uh I was able to find a job pretty rapidly. 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:26.639 And the company I worked for initially, there was they hired 30 across the United States, they fired or hired 30 college trainees in the class and put you through about a six to nine month uh I guess to use an analogy to military, like a basic training of insurance, right? 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:40.720 Um and yet I had so I had to your earlier comment, a lot of the folks in my class were uh maybe a liberal arts major or Spanish major or you know, political science major and decided to get an insurance. 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:43.360 So I had already had that licensing background. 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:53.919 I had the uh court club college courses and actual science and and and uh insurance uh uh classes, and so uh it allowed me really to excel pretty quick. 00:08:54.320 --> 00:09:08.720 Yeah, you know, a few months back we had a fifth third uh associate general counsel Mike Keefe on the show, and I think a

lot of people, you know, of course, because of the old Johnny Bench commercials with Fifth Third and everything, they associate Fifth Third and banking with Cincinnati. 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:14.480 But Cincinnati is also, you know, quite has quite the insurance presence with Great American Insurance. 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:25.519 You know, the Cincinnati Reds Stadium is named after Great American and the you know, the tower, the largest, you know, building in Cincinnati right across the street, as well as uh the Cincinnati Insurance Company. 00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:29.600 I may have messed up the name there a little bit, but there is quite an insurance presence there as well. 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:38.240 Well, across the entire state, it's a very large employer in the state of Ohio, everything from Cleveland, progressive and progressive corporations based in Cleveland. 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:44.240 Um Columbus, Ohio has several insurance companies that are based there, corporate offices. 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:50.639 Uh so yes, and not only is Cincinnati but across the state, it's a large employer uh in the insurance industry. 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:59.039 Well, and it sounds like the where you started, it was like you kind of said, your your training grounds into the into the insurance industry. 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:08.240 And from there, it sounds like um you moved to Chubb and were there for the better part of two decades and really experienced a lot of growth there. 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:09.679 Can you tell us about that? 00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:11.120 I did, I did. 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:24.879 So that that was one of the companies actually, when I was uh just wrapping up my undergrad degree in that spring, I interviewed with Chubb at Cincinnati, and then um I was very excited to wanted to join them. 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:27.279 They're extremely fine company. 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:38.000 Uh and when I said I had to go away for a year, that's one of the companies that said, uh, come back next year, you know, we can't hire you, subject to kind of thing, which may I, you know, I respected that. 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:45.279 Um, but um ultimately I found a job in another company, and ultimately I I did uh move on to my career to chubb. 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:55.519 Um and what allowed me to do is uh um very large company, a global company, uh very diverse in the product lines that they offer. 00:10:55.840 --> 00:11:00.960 And uh I so professionally I was able to grow rapidly uh in that working for that company. 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:01.679 Yeah. 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:06.080 And you know, your career has focused on underwriting. 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:11.919 For listeners out there that may be fam unfamiliar with that, would you explain to them generally what is underwriting? 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:23.440 In the insurance industry, uh the job function of an insurance underwriter, uh, think of it as like any business, there's dollars in and dollars out, right? 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:30.559 Uh the dollars in part, the risk-taking uh part of the industry, that's an insurance underwriter. 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:42.480 They are the ones that are looking over and reviewing insurance submissions that come in from uh insurance brokers or agents to the company. 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:49.200 And they're the underwriters are the ones that are evaluating and underwriting the exposures associated with it. 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:59.279 And that could be anything from property insurance to liability insurance to uh specialty lines, for example, like directors and officers or errors and admissions insurance. 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:11.759 So, for instance, here at Collins and Lacey, you know, we represent um a lot of tractor trailer companies that have presence throughout the United States, um, large construction companies that that may be sued. 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:29.759 So, for instance, right, uh for by way of example for listeners, if they want uh to be covered by a certain insurance company, um, I assume that underwriting is going to assess this company and try to figure out what are appropriate levels of coverage and what do premiums look like. 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:32.240 Do you talk about that process a little bit? 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:33.200 Exactly. 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:46.720 So typically um when the insurance company operates with insurance agents and brokers, uh the submissions, the the brokers bring the business to the carriers and they represent multiple carriers. 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:54.559 And they will represent that that policy holder or that insured and represent their interest in seeking out the insurance. 00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:12.080 Um the underwriter will look at a plethora of information from applications to claim uh experience of that particular insured, safety practices, uh, you know, for example, let's say for liability, and then you get into the property insurance aspect of it. 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:22.159 The underwriter is gonna look at the type of building, the occupancy, the construction type, the sprinkler system, fire protection system, all those data points. 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:35.360 That's what's reviewed by the underwriter, and ultimately uh making a decision on the rating plans, the rates that they charge for those different lines of insurance, and ultimately quoting the insurance out back out to the broker. 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:35.759 No. 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:46.320 Myself as a litigator, a lot of the times I'm dealing with an adjuster or c you know from an insurance company or a claims manager and my c and the client, right? 00:13:46.639 --> 00:14:02.159 Because let's say that um you have a construction project, something goes wrong, um, the construction company gets sued, they call their insurance company, the insurance company says, Hey, we're assigning this case to Collins and Lacey in Columbia, South Carolina. 00:14:02.480 -->

00:14:07.600 And so I'm working with the client, but the insurance company is going to pay the bill. 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:14.879 And of course, the the client is always concerned about any type of settlement and how that's going to affect their premiums. 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:21.360 Um, can you talk to folks about how that, you know, the effects of litigation on underwriting? 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:27.039 Oh, well, it's it's a huge issue across our industry. 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:30.960 Uh well, number one, let's just talk about the actual process. 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:35.440 So contractually, contractually, that's what an insurance policy is, right? 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:37.600 An insurance policy is a contract. 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:39.759 It's a it's a signed contract. 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:45.279 Um, I'm at, you know, in addition to running the casualty lines, I'm also president of our paper companies. 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:47.200 I call I refer to them as the paper companies. 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:51.759 So when you get your insurance company policy, there's a name on the policy. 00:14:51.840 --> 00:15:01.039 Uh in the insurance company name, uh I am the president of those paper companies for our firm, and you actually see my wet signature on the policy. 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:05.039 You'll see the president in the signature and the secretary in the signature. 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:08.320 Um it's a contract, it's a legal binding contract. 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:20.000 In those policies uh are clauses that the insurance company reserves the right to adjust and settle the claims on behalf of the policyholder. 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:32.720 Um and so that that gives the legal aspect of the carrier, the insurance company, and how they negotiate, let's say, the with the claimant, and then yourself representing the company on the settlement. 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:39.039 You can get in a situation where the policyholder may feel like, I don't see liability here. 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:55.279 I don't understand why you're accepting liability, uh, or I don't necessarily agree with the amount that may be needed for the settlement because that's going to affect my loss experience and ultimately perhaps cause my rates to go higher in the future. 00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:57.919 That's a that's a constant dialogue. 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:14.159 And I think what happens is ultimately, in most in most situations, in the vast majority of situations, the the policy holder, the the company who's the person that they insurer that's buying the policy, maybe a private company, privately held. 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:32.320 So uh if the words it could be a public company, but if the individual ultimately, if that's the CFO, the comptroller, or the risk manager that is purchasing the insurance, ultimately they they typically buy in once they they understand perhaps the the jurisdiction they're in. 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:35.200 Uh prior to the potential nuclear verdicts. 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:37.679 Yeah, case case law. 00:16:37.840 --> 00:17:07.039 Uh and then nuclear verdicts, which is now basically uh a phrase you thrown around in the last three or four or five years in our industry, where the claim amounts, the actual amounts settling on claims is escalated so high that it in in several jurisdictions, multiple jurisdictions and states across the United States, where you can escalate a claim quickly into that five, ten, fifteen million dollar range. 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.039 Um, and that's for example, in an automobile accident. 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:12.160 It can happen pretty quick. 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:16.960 Yeah, and I think a lot of times, you know, clients are concerned about the settlement amount. 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:29.519 But my understanding is it's just not the settlement amount that um underwriters would look at in assessing what their premium should be in the future, but it's also defense cost. 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:45.359 It's you know the whole package there of how much does it cost to defend it from you know how much are we paying a law firm to defend the case, plus how much is the settlement in order to assess the total value that that went into defending any certain claim. 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:47.200 Um any thoughts on that? 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:48.480 Absolutely. 00:17:48.640 --> 00:18:01.359 You could you can get in a situation and and uh in most jurisdictions where the the plaintiff has a lot of rights and they're you know they hire smart attorneys too, right? 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:12.240 And so you know they can have the ability to um file, file motions, drag out cases, discovery, uh, and really string something out. 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:26.880 So again, when when we're working, when the insurance company is is working with their adjusters and their panel council firms across the United States, the the key is I I believe that to really know that local jurisdiction very well. 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:42.720 For example, we have not only our house council, but then we have panel firms, I refer to them as panel firms that we work with uh from New York out to California, uh from Illinois, you know, all the way across the United States down to Texas and Florida, et cetera. 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:51.279 And so uh we believe you know, we have to have faith in the firms that we work with and the attorneys that know those little those areas and those jurisdictions. 00:18:51.519 --> 00:19:02.640 And ultimately, if um let's say it's a property damage claim, and we can approach the claimant and resolve it perhaps quicker than dragging out certain claims. 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:19.839 Now, maybe bodily injury or or or soft tissue or a traumatic brain injury claim allegation could take a longer process, but sometimes uh you may get quick quicker settlement and you do avoid the long litigated expenses, which that also impacts a policy holder. 00:19:20.160 -->

00:19:20.799 Yeah, absolutely. 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:27.279 Sometimes it's just in the client's best interest to negotiate a quick resolution so that they can move on. 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:42.000 Um, but other times you have inflated claims, like you were mentioning, sometimes the TBI cases where the medical records really have to be scrutinized to see does the demand line up with what the claim damages are. 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:47.119 Um now with Chubb, that brought you to Chicago, I believe, in about 2010, is that right? 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:47.759 It did. 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:54.880 I I relocated to Chicago uh for a promotion opportunity and and worked uh started working in the Chicago area. 00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:00.640 But up to the and I think that kind of coincides with around the time that you retired from the Air National Guard, is that right? 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:02.640 It basically did. 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:05.279 At that point, I had 29 years in total. 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:15.759 Um and um uh I was a um at a fighter, I I transitioned um up to a fighter wing. 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.119 Um there was an F-16 fighter wing in Ohio. 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:29.519 So when I got promoted to lieutenant colonel, I had to find a better I had to find a different job because I was over my I was one rank over my authorized rank into my radar unit. 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:43.440 So uh I ended up going up to a fighter wing in Ohio um and uh took a position and ultimately became commander uh of the red logistics readiness squadron in the fighter wing. 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:46.079 And I was there for nine years. 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:58.079 And uh at the same time I was relocating in 2010, uh we got bracked uh like the third time, and the F we were an F-16 training wing. 00:20:58.160 --> 00:20:59.920 So we had 22 jets, 11 U.S. 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.039 and 11 Dutch jets. 00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:02.480 We were a schoolhouse. 00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:07.920 And um, so uh we trained a lot of the Dutch pilots and how to fly an F-16. 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:10.480 We also were a transition for our own U.S. 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:20.720 pilots that were transitioning uh into F-16s from a let's say an F-14 or an F-18 or an F-15, uh, or perhaps a transport. 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:25.039 So we were a lot of different students in different situations in their flight training. 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:29.759 Um the um we lost that mission and went out to Hill Air Force Base. 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:37.920 And so we trans we transitioned the wing into an intelligence surveillance reconnaissance, and some of the pilots stayed. 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:42.720 And today they they starting back then and and today, they they fly drones. 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:56.960 So uh they do a series of uh uh intelligence evaluations, and they also uh which is really current in today's world, um, they are flying drones based in Ohio. 00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:05.519 And

uh so what the what the loss of Jets and uh my time in I just in and transferring to Chicago. 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:09.839 I thought it was good timing for me to to pass the baton and and retire out. 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:16.960 And I had a very strong captain that worked for me, and I thought he he would do very well uh in the future, and I decided to retire. 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:19.920 Now that wing is it based out of Wright Pat in Dayton? 00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:21.039 It was near Wright Pat. 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:27.519 It's the 178th wing there in Springfield, Ohio, which is about 10 miles from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. 00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:41.200 And isn't that amazing to think that you know you had this uh demanding profession going on in the insurance industry, and at the same time, your part-time job was helping to train F-16 pilots, including Dutch pilots. 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:46.240 Yeah, I mean I did a dual, I call it a dual career career. 00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:52.400 So um we you know, even in I I thought it was very exciting to be in a National Guard. 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:53.279 We deploy a lot. 00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:58.480 We you know, when I was in the 80s and 90s and up and through today, constant deployment. 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:07.759 Um, and uh whether that's airlift, air refueling, uh, air uh radar combat radar uh uh you name it. 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:10.799 Um, you know, I was Logistics Readiness Squadron Commander, right? 00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:16.559 Under me, part of the uh area of the base under me was base fuels, the fuels uh division. 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:32.240 And many, many times I got uh requests coming down from the National Guard Bureau where they would need four or five airmen to go over the cutter or someplace else in the Middle East to complement another unit to work on the flight line to gas jets. 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:38.400 And um example, or vehicle maintenance was another area that was under me for under logistics. 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:45.920 So um Yeah, the National Guard is a big contributor to our national defense and deploy a lot. 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:49.759 And I did a lot of that uh in the radar unit and also in the F-16 wing. 00:23:50.079 --> 00:24:03.359 Well, and with the number of folks that you help train, I'm sure the reverberations of that are still being felt in the military, especially, you know, right now with the operations we have going on in Iran and throughout the Middle East. 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:07.039 And obviously, our our thoughts are with those that are involved with that right now. 00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:13.039 Um so I'm sure that you just know plenty of folks that are still in the fight and who helped you who you helped train. 00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:26.640 Well, in Ohio too, unfortunately, three of those airmen that were uh the six that were k killed in the KC-135 accident were from the 121st Air McCilling Range by Rickenbacker Air National Guard

Base in Ohio. 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:28.400 Wow, I did not know that. 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:29.759 Yeah, that's horrible. 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:36.720 And um, as an aside, one of the captains, his undergrads from the University of Cincinnati, he uh aerospace engineer. 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:44.240 Yeah, well, you know, Neil Armstrong uh was a professor at uh in aerospace engineering at UC for for quite a while. 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:48.400 Now, the w the the cap the captain did did he pass? 00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:49.200 He did. 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:56.240 He was it was a major, a captain, and um an airman, uh boom operator that were air guard. 00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:07.440 So, you know, the the folks that are out there listening, um, you know, this is obviously a a very challenging time uh what's going on in the world right now. 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:22.960 Um for those folks that are are veterans that may be looking for some type of transition, maybe they're on active duty, maybe they've already transitioned off of active duty, um, and they're they're listening to you and they're like, hey, you know, actually insurance sounds interesting. 00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:28.400 You know, it's a you know, in in business, insurance has to be part of your strategy. 00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:34.640 Um it's a key component, and and it's interlinked with finance, kind of how you were talking about earlier. 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:40.559 Are there certain types of backgrounds that make for a good transition to the insurance industry? 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:41.839 Well, absolutely. 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.160 There there are there is a plethora opportunity. 00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:48.000 The insurance industry is a very large employer. 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:53.839 We we talked about the state of Ohio recent earlier, but uh it's across the United States. 00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:58.720 And it actually spans the um globally, of course. 00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:15.839 Uh you know, our industry started out as the Lloyds of London, the send, you know, the old Lloyds of London in London and the tea house and the sign up for percentages of uh risk on cargo shipments uh, you know, as they've sailed across the world. 00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:19.680 London, that London market is still very vibrant, very large. 00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:23.359 Uh, I also run our business uh in our in Bermuda. 00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:28.880 We have a uh division in uh in Bermuda, and I'm responsible for running that division. 00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:31.279 Um and then across the United States. 00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:47.440 And then I would just say that um there is a lot of different jobs in the insurance insurance industry that could be fit filled by veterans who uh come in off of active duty um and and want to pivot their their careers. 00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:56.000 Let's say let's say you you know you join the military in your early 20s, you you come out in, let's say you're mid-40s, and you got

a lot of life ahead of you, right? 00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:57.759 A lot of excitement ahead of you. 00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:00.880 And the you come out with a lot of skill, right? 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:02.960 And there's a lot of jobs. 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:13.359 Not only we talked a little bit about underwriting, but there's you know, I mentioned, I think I said that earlier there's it's a dollars in, dollars out business, like everything else. 00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:15.599 But dollars out is the claim adjusters, right? 00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:21.839 So uh our underwriters bring them money in, and our claim adjusters, or the ones I work with our attorneys. 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:25.920 We talked about this where they settle the claims, and ultimately that's the money out. 00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:34.799 Well, you know, there's a lot of opportunities for folks that have uh backgrounds and a variety of specialties that could come into the claims department. 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:39.680 We have, for example, we have a special investigations unit. 00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:48.400 Most insurance companies do, that uh at times have to get involved in some claim experience or claim settlements and investigations. 00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:50.480 Uh that's one area. 00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:55.279 Uh also the operation side of the business, the IT side. 00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:59.599 Most insurance companies, if not all, have very large IT. 00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:09.519 And and and and now uh like every other industry, AI is uh is is coming into our industry and being deployed. 00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:19.039 And there are folks coming out that have backgrounds in AI and and cyber and how to protect IT systems from cyber attacks, et cetera. 00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:27.519 So uh there are a lot of opportunities uh for veterans who wish to choose uh occup uh a career in the insurance industry. 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:36.400 Yeah, so for instance, next month in April, I believe it's Shook Hardy and Bacon is a law firm in Washington, D.C. 00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:38.400 They're hosting jobs for JAG. 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.200 So I'm sure a lot of folks that are out there listening, please look into that. 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:43.119 I think that's something that you'd be interested in. 00:28:43.440 --> 00:29:00.000 But for the folks that are interested in going into insurance, whether um it sounds you know like the the more interested in the underwriting side or the adjuster side, um, where are some good resources for them? 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:23.599 Like a if you know, for instance, we got a lot of folks that they do their four years, they get some great training, um, and then they come out, or you know, they they do 20 to 30 years, they retire, and at that point in time, sometimes those can be hard fits because they may be a battalion commander and be a great generalist and a great leader, but not necessarily have the technical skill and need to be trained on that.

00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:28.799 So, what resources do you recommend for for people across the span of their careers? 00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:32.240 Well, I get you're 100% right. 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:45.119 So let's let's let's assume that somebody spends you know four to seven, eight years, let's say, in an enlistment, uh, or they do their initial commitment as an officer and decide it's it's not for me and I want to come out. 00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:55.759 You know, I think the time the time to be thinking about that transition is not when you not when you your enlistment comes up or your commission uh commitment expires, right? 00:29:55.839 --> 00:30:01.359 You should be thinking about this probably two years or 18 months at least before that date, right? 00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:02.880 So that's number one. 00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:08.319 Number two is I would explore uh all kinds of databases. 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:16.720 So there are there's recruiters out there that can help you, there's uh websites that can help you, there's social media sites that can help you. 00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:23.440 Uh, and then I think part of it variable would be where do you want to be physically uh post-military? 00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:24.960 Where would you like to be? 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:29.920 Uh you mentioned South Carolina for yourself, um, you know, is a place to be. 00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:35.440 So I think once you get grounded, like, okay, I'm gonna I want to be in stay in, I'm in Florida, I'm gonna stay in Florida. 00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:40.880 Or I'm stationed in Florida and I'm retiring out and I want to come back up to the north. 00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:44.640 Or, you know, I think that that kind of points you in the right direction. 00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:49.759 Uh and again, if it's the insurance industry, there there's there's tremendous opportunities. 00:30:49.839 --> 00:31:02.880 And just because you don't necessarily have uh the correct background, you know, what I look for, and we hire a lot of, I call it mid-career professionals that pivot in the in our industry. 00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:09.680 For example, we have house counsel and had house counsel, uh uh, you know, our general counsel at one time. 00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:12.000 She's no longer with the firm, but she pivot. 00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:15.279 She was not in insurance, the insurance industry. 00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:27.599 And and I believe it was like 20 years or 15 years in something like that in her wall career, she decided to pivot and come into the insurance industry and ultimately rose up to become our general counsel. 00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:41.839 Yeah, and I have a few uh UC law school classmates that um uh started out as adjusters and have worked their way up to become vice president of claims management and you know, similar type jobs at insurance companies. 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:47.680 So it seems like the legal background is a good fit for those that are interested in insurance. 00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:49.440 It is, it is. 00:31:49.519 --> 00:32:00.720 And and and you'll find in a lot of insurance companies, uh uh a lot of the senior leaders, inclusive of CEOs, have undergrad or have law, excuse me, law degrees. 00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:03.599 Uh and certainly the claims department does. 00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:07.039 Um usually, usually you're ahead of corporate claims. 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:11.039 Uh uh, you know, ours went to Villanova law school. 00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:16.480 Um, you know, um our general counsel went to NYU uh course, right? 00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:23.440 So there's a lot of opportunities, and I refer to the house council, our in our employee council opportunities. 00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:32.400 Um and I I would say that doesn't necessarily require any uh experience per se in in the insurance industry. 00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:35.200 It's certainly helpful, but not necessarily a prerequisite. 00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:48.240 Um and then there's a lot of opportunities in underwriting also uh with with law degrees, um, and especially in the areas of um there's some niche, neat really niche lines of insurance. 00:32:48.319 --> 00:33:09.519 Uh for example, I mentioned earlier directors and officers insurance, errors in admissions insurance, um, lawyers professional insurance, uh, where you'll find individuals um that uh have law degrees and choose to uh be adjust claims or underwrite that business. 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:13.839 Well, and well, I I guess first we we haven't touched on this. 00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:18.640 Like now that you're the head of casualty at Argo, what are your responsibilities there? 00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:37.200 Yeah, so my my day-to-day job, I'm responsible for managing our primary general liability line of insurance, our excess liability insurance, our environmental insurance policies, all the policies, the liability policies we we focus in on one industry vertical called construction. 00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:45.039 So we write primary and excess liability policies across the plethora of construction exposures. 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:58.559 Uh I have uh mentioned our Bermuda business, that's all excess liability, high excess limits out out of the Bermuda business, uh Bermuda market, and then I also manage all of our workers' compensation insurance across the United States. 00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:04.480 So it's a book of business that's probably hundreds of millions of dollars that you're responsible for, I would assume. 00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:08.320 And how roughly how many people are you supervising? 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:10.559 I've got about 135. 00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:22.239 And you know, you were saying at the beginning, when you went into underwriting, you kind of went through insurance boot camp, but that there were folks there with liberal arts backgrounds also going, you know, through that with you. 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:41.440 So I assume insurance companies still

have this type of training for those that may not have the mathematical background that you did, that they can make that folks that you know went through the military, they may have a degree in English, but there's a pathway for them to make that transition into underwriting or into claims management if they're interested. 00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:47.119 There's opportunities for search sure, and there's also opportunities to learn on the job. 00:34:47.280 --> 00:35:00.480 And uh, you know, just you if you take you know, I take applicants all the time in different, you know, uh points in their career, and some have pluses and some have minuses, right? 00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:11.199 So let's say, for example, you were, you know, uh, you know, one one of my, you know, I've I've got underwriters that were in the Marine Corps, active duty, and have done extremely well for us. 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:17.199 Um and uh they were maybe infantry or you know, artillery or something, you know. 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:28.639 So it it's it's part of it is is that it's is we you know, and I know it's probably a lot of people come onto your podcast and say this, but it's the you know, it's what we learn in the military, right? 00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:41.199 It's discipline, it's being focused, um, and and and being able to bring ability to accomplish tasks that mean a means a lot. 00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:48.000 You know, I've I've I've worked with people, uh I've had friends and work with people that are really quote unquote book smart, right? 00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:57.280 And they can't uh open an umbrella in the rain, you know, and and they can't run a business or you know, so there's there's a there's always a balance though, right? 00:35:57.360 --> 00:35:57.920 Always a balance. 00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:06.159 Well, and I think you can have a great educational background, and you may be a great worker, you may not, you know, and somebody with a a different educational background. 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:12.239 What one of the best attorneys I ever worked with was enlisted, and his undergrad was from American Military University. 00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:25.920 Um, but he was a you know, he did that while he was on active duty, and so he didn't go to an Ivy League uh school undergrad or for a law school, but he was amazingly smart and just a hard worker with drive. 00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:36.000 And that's what you don't necessarily get on paper is what is this person's drive and willingness to just you know accomplish the mission and take care of the people, right? 00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:40.000 The two the two things that we uh always focus on in the military, right? 00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:46.159 Mission first, people always, and making sure that you're finding the people that are are wired to do that. 00:36:46.239 --> 00:37:05.679 Uh and you know, I I I think that's the thing with veterans that are looking to hire other veterans, you know, we expect them to bring that

to the table, and we understand that maybe they don't have the exact technical competencies that we're looking for on paper, but we expect that they'll be able to come through the door and throw themselves into it and get up to speed quickly. 00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:08.079 I I can't I agree with you 100%. 00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:09.920 That's exactly how they do it. 00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:16.800 Now, for those that may be interested in opportunities at Argo, where all um do you all have a presence throughout the U.S. 00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:19.840 and any certain things that they should look for with Argo? 00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.800 So we have offices all across the United States. 00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:29.519 We have a we have specifically, you know, we have office in in New York City, midtown area here in downtown Chicago in the Loop. 00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:31.679 We've got offices in Texas. 00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:34.880 Uh we have an office in Omaha, Nebraska. 00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:35.920 We have a physical office. 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:40.400 We opened up that's uh nine months ago now in downtown Los Angeles. 00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:45.519 Um and you know, so there's opportunities all across the United States. 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:52.159 Uh, and all of our job postings, obviously, it's on our public website, so it's on Argo, our Argo Group. 00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:56.400 If you look Argo Group and you'll see career opportunities, there's job postings there. 00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:57.039 Great. 00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:02.320 And as we uh wrap up here, David, any parting words of wisdom for those listening? 00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:14.400 Well, specifically, if they're if they're uh still in the military looking to transition or they're veterans, uh, number one is you, you know, thank you for your service, thank you for your commitment. 00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:22.000 Uh and there's opportunities, whether that's the insurance industry or any other industry, you have a lot of skills. 00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:24.719 Whether you may not think you do, or you do. 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:28.800 And um, you know, there's great opportunity for you in the future. 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:40.559 Hey, David, I really appreciate the, you know, like you said, the dual career you were able to manage for basically three decades, and you know, the opportunities that you're hoping to create for other veterans. 00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:44.239 I see what looks like an F-16 model in the background behind you there. 00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:47.119 So I'm glad to see that you're still fired up about your service. 00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:48.000 Absolutely. 00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:48.880 Thank you very much. 00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:50.159 Thank you for this opportunity. 00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:51.599 I really enjoyed our conversation. 00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:52.880 Thanks a ton, David. 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:53.679 And today's St. 00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:55.599 Paddy's Day, and you're in Chicago. 00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:57.920 I'm sure the the river's flowing green there. 00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:01.360 I hope you find the time uh to get out and get yourself a green beer today. 00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:03.199 I might have to stop on the way home. 00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:04.960 Thanks a ton, David. 00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:15.360 Uh for those listening, please give the show a five-star review and invite folks to join our LinkedIn group to make it easier for others to find us so that we can help as many people as possible. 00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:20.159 Thank you for listening to the Military Veterans in Law Podcast, where we continue to serve together. 00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:34.239 You've been listening to the Military Veterans in Law Podcast from the Civil and Criminal Defense Team at Collins and Lacy Law Firm in South Carolina, with your host, Jared Fosknecker. 00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:39.039 For more information, visit Collinsandlacey.com. 00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:43.920 Not associated with the United States government or any of the military branches. 00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:47.519 All statements on the podcast are made in a personal capacity.