บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Father Malone's Weekly Guest Spot - 24 Hour Party People (2002) - The Projection Booth

00:04:37.560 I had had a debate about who was better New 77 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:41.399 Order or Joy Division our entire lives. He knew that 78 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:43.759 I loved Joy Division, but he also knew that I 79 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.639 hated the Happy Mondays. I did not. I could not 80 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.720 embrace the acid house scene that was going on in 81 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:53.720 Manchester in the late eighties. But he was convinced that 82 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:57.120 this would change my mind about that, and yeah, it 83 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.240 really did. I mean as soon as I saw this movie, 84 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:01.519 when I got out of there, I went and bought Pills, 85 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:05.399 Throws and belly eggs. This movie to me not to 86 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:07.360 bury the lead. I think it's the perfect ideal of 87 00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:12.720 a bio pick music bio pick and could not wait 88 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:16.000 for it to come out on DVD. Was was shattered 89 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:18.800 shattered watching the movie when they mentioned DVDs. As a 90 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:21.879 matter of fact, that was it, and all I could 91 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:24.160 think about was getting one as soon as it came out, 92 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:26.519 so which I've dug up and watched a number of 93 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:28.879 times leading up to this, so I'm excited to talk 94 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:31.240 about the movie. I think it's it's just one of 95 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:32.079 the best out there. 96 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:35.079 This was a first time watch for me. I had 97 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:36.879 never seen it before, and I kept trying to think 98 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:40.959 of why why had I not watched this, and came 99 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:43.680 up with a couple theories. One was, I think I 100 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.120 told you this before father alone. I might have gotten 101 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:48.360 mixed up with Party Monster. 102 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:51.360 The Macaulay Culkin, Yes, and. 103 00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:54.120 I guess that has something to do with rave culture, 104 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:58.879 those kind of things. Also, I was not a big 105 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:01.560 fan of the Manchester scene when it came to the 106 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:05.360 stuff that was going on in the late eighties early nineties. 107 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:08.920 For some reason, it just felt like too much like 108 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:14.920 here's Charlaton's UK, Here's what was the uh this reds One, 109 00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:19.079 Stone Roses, Hot Dragons, Thank. 110 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:22.439 You, House Flowers, And I just was like, oh. 111 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:24.360 Man, this is a lot of stuff that I really 112 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:28.319 am just not into. And now Stone Roses total exception 113 00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:32.319 loved Stone Roses. Don't know why exactly. I liked them 114 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.240 and didn't really like the rest of these bands. I 115 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:38.199 had never heard of the Happy Mondays until I started 116 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:40.759 watching this movie, and I thought at first that it 117 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:43.399 was made up. That's how much I didn't know. And 118 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.000 even when they played their songs, I was like, I've 119 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:48.360 never heard these in my life, because I mean even 120 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:51.519 the title song twenty four Hour Party people. Nope, no 121 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:54.879 idea that that was a song before. So I just 122 00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:58.040 felt completely out of the loop with this. I was 123 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.040 somewhat familiar with Factory Record just from what they were 124 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:04.160 putting out, but was not aware of Tony Wilson, was 125 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:08.720 not aware of the Hacienda, so this was really brand 126 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:12.199 new for me. And man, oh Man, Tony Wilson, What 127 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:17.800 a fascinating character this guy is. After a while watching 128 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:21.079 this movie, was Steve Coogan playing this role? I just 129 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:23.480 wanted to yell, will you shut up at the TV 130 00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:26.759 because he just won't stop talking. But I'm like, this 131 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:29.680 is a great compelling protagonist for a film. 132 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.519 Peter Hook from Joy Division and New Order described this 133 00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:39.720 film as about Manchester's biggest cunt portrayed by Manchester's second 134 00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:43.240 biggest cunt, and yes, I do think Tony Wilson is 135 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:46.800 one hundred percent of fascinating character. He describes himself as 136 00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:50.000 a journalist first and foremost did until the day he died, 137 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:54.959 not you know, not record a company owner, not record promoter, 138 00:07:55.160 --> 00:08:00.319 not nightclub owner. And this movie is kind of in 139 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:04.240 a bottle in that they have him as their central character, 140 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:09.439 a character removed from the creative process while central to it, 141 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:14.560 and my god, how lucky that not only do they 142 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:16.360 was he just sort of a fascinating character, but he 143 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:20.040 was on camera like so he's part of the media. 144 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:23.120 Like in the opening sequence where where they're showing one 145 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:25.399 of his little bits that he would do for Granada 146 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:29.279 Television where he's hang gliding, we're actually seeing Tony Wilson 147 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:32.879 in

that sequence. Steve Coogan described it as I had 148 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:35.919 Tony Wilson as my stunt double for my portrayal of 149 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:39.360 Tony Wilson in the movie. He doesn't shut up ever, 150 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:41.039 and you want him to shut up. And at the 151 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:44.159 same time, I could continue listening to him talk as 152 00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:48.840 smug as he could get. He's always funny and always informative, 153 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:52.200 like the best narrator I've ever seen for a biopic. 154 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:56.679 There's a scene in the movie where Steve Coogan as 155 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:00.399 Tony Wilson, turns toward the camera and says, this isn't 156 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:03.679 about me, this is about the Manchester scene. And I 157 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:09.559 couldn't disagree more. This is Steve Coogan's movie in my mind, 158 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:13.279 and this is the story of Tony Wilson, a guy 159 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:16.840 who was at the right place at the right time, 160 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:21.360 with the right attitude and kind of captured lightning in 161 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:25.720 a bottle. And yeah, it's a character study in Steve 162 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:27.639 Coogan is amazing in this movie. 163 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:32.840 Cougan is fantastic. I really like Steve Coogan. I can't 164 00:09:32.840 --> 00:09:35.000 say I'm familiar with all of the stuff that he's 165 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:38.960 done over the years, because he's done a ton I'm 166 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:42.120 not familiar with the Alan Partridge character. But I'm curious 167 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:45.480 how close Alan Partridge and Tony Wilson are because I know, 168 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:51.480 isn't Alan Partridge kind of unaware of himself and like 169 00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:53.840 so full of himself but yet also unaware at the 170 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:54.399 same time. 171 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:59.279 I likened when Alan Partridge to the Larry Sanders character 172 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:01.759 when he firstart air and we were seeing him on 173 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:05.200 his talk show. He's evolved over time. He just had 174 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.840 a movie recently, actually, and yes, he's kissing cousins with 175 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:16.039 Tony Wilson in the sort of egotism, but completely unaware 176 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:18.960 of it. Like the Tony Wilson as a character in 177 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:22.279 this movie is knowing that he's in the movie. But 178 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:24.960 you know, Steve Coogan said, like it only makes sense 179 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:26.840 for him to talk about the movie while he's in 180 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:29.720 the movie. A character of Tony Wilson would be aware 181 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:32.480 that he was in the film. So that self awareness 182 00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:35.320 is lacking with Alan Partridge completely. He's more of a 183 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:36.159 buffoon that way. 184 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:39.159 Alan Partridge, from what I've seen of him, reminds me 185 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:41.639 a lot of Jimmy Glick. I don't know if that's 186 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:43.159 a fair assessment or not. 187 00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:48.600 In the fawningness and the sarcasm, definitely the bitterness that's 188 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:50.600 lying just underneath all that happiness. 189 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:54.480 Yeah, I do love that Steve Coogan as Tony Wilson 190 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:57.519 is a character in his own movie. That he does 191 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:00.320 speak to the camera like you're saying, and that he's 192 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:03.240 so aware. You know, from the very first scene you're 193 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:05.559 talking about the hang gliding stuff and when he's like, 194 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:08.320 this movie isn't about this, it's more about this, and 195 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:11.279 it just like lays out and by breaking that fourth 196 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:14.840 wall in the very first scene, you're like, oh, Okay, 197 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:17.360 this is what I'm in for. And there are times 198 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:20.440 where I'm like, are other people hearing him talk to 199 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:23.159 the camera or is it just us? Are we the 200 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:25.240 only ones hearing this dialogue? 201 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:29.279 What's funny is it wouldn't be removed if people were listening. 202 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:31.960 There might as well be somebody just standing off camera 203 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.080 who he's just talking to. You get the notion that 204 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:35.879 Tony never shut the fuck up ever. 205 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:41.480 Yeah, and he's so grandiose with his whole thing. I mean, 206 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:45.879 the idea of the wheel that comes up constantly through 207 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:49.000 this whole movie, and you're like, Okay, yeah, I can 208 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:52.080 see him being very into you know, Greek philosophers, and 209 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:54.080 I love too. At one point he says like. 210 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:55.960 You're gonna be saying a lot more of that sort 211 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:59.120 of thing in the film, although that actually did happen, 212 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:00.639 obviously symbolic. 213 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:01.720 It works on both levels. 214 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:03.519 I don't want to tell you too much, don't want 215 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:07.480 to spoil the film, but I'll just say, Icarus, okay 216 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:09.360 if you know what I mean, right, if it doesn't matter, 217 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:10.720 but you should probably read more. 218 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:15.080 I am so intellectually superior to everyone around. 219 00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:17.279

Me, you know. And that's part of that opening scene. 220 00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:20.080 It's the I just want to say Icarus and then 221 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:23.159 the credits role it's like a declaration like I'm going 222 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:25.440 to be this smug to you for the rest of 223 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:27.720 the film. I'm your lead character. 224 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:31.360 It's very smart the way that they blend. You talked 225 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.919 about how Tony Wilson is Steve Coogan's stunt double by 226 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:38.399 them reusing the old footage from Granada. I don't know 227 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:41.679 if it's Robbie Mueller, the DP or who it was 228 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:44.519 that was in charge of this, but to blend the 229 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:48.720 footage of Cougan with Wilson, I could not tell the 230 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:52.399 difference between the footage because it looked like it was 231 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:56.000 shot on the same stock, shot on the same day, 232 00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:59.759 the same lighting. I mean, it just looked perfect. And 233 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.039 you also start to add in like the footage of 234 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:06.600 the six pistols at the Hall in Manchester, now that 235 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:09.799 is very different the you know, it looks like super 236 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:13.360 eight of the sex pistols, and then it's much better 237 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.639 film quality or digital quality of the people in the hall. 238 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:18.879 But I love those like quick pans that they'll do 239 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:21.360 to go from the pistols to the people in the hall, 240 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:24.480 and you're really getting introduced to so many of the characters, 241 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:27.519 just in this very first scene where it's like, oh, well, 242 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:31.679 here's Andy Serkis, and here's Constantine, and here's all these 243 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:34.080 other people that you're going to see through this whole film, 244 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:36.320 and it's just like, wow, this is really a smart 245 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:40.320 way to introduce this and to integrate that older footage. 246 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:45.320 That opening scene, I know was filmed on a sixteen millimeter, 247 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:48.519 so it matches perfectly there and you needed to do that. 248 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:52.519 Going in the rant obviously was shot digitally, and of 249 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:54.639 course this was made in like two thousand and two. 250 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:56.320 When it came out in two thousand and three, so 251 00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:59.960 everyone was kind of reeling from twenty eight days later 252 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:01.919 and the fact that Danny Boyle went and made a 253 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:05.799 movie with video cameras. But it's my understanding what they 254 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:10.080 did here was they then transferred this to film and 255 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:13.279 then transferred it back to video so it would have 256 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:16.559 this pass through film so it could match a little 257 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:19.919 bit more. Because the scene you're talking about the Manchester 258 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:23.639 Free Trade Hall, the Sex Pistols first show where they 259 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:27.759 are blending it in some shots rather seamlessly, where we 260 00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:29.120 get to a close up of the band and it's 261 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:32.279 clearly Johnny Rotten and then it switshpans so fast to 262 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:36.960 somebody in character sitting there watching that you could believe 263 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:38.840 that they had cameras there that night. 264 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:43.240 The thing I loved about these transitions between the real 265 00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:47.320 footage and then the film footage is it never felt 266 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:51.159 to me like a gimmick or it ever felt like 267 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:54.720 the film was winking at me. It felt very natural, 268 00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:59.840 not like say a Forest Gump where where they're trying 269 00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:01.519 to show you how clever they are. 270 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:04.559 Yeah, I didn't get that. I did like two when 271 00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:07.320 they go I think it's also in that same opening 272 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:10.240 sequence with the sex Pistols where it's like all of 273 00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:12.679 these people are here watching this show. It's kind of 274 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:15.000 like when people talk about the Velvet Underground. Like when 275 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.879 people went to see the Velvet Underground, they went out 276 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.159 and they formed bands. And it was very similar to 277 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:24.240 this particular concert in Manchester Free Trade Hall where people 278 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:27.440 are seeing the sex Pistols and then pretty much everybody 279 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:29.440 that you see, what was it like all thirty eight 280 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:32.240 people or whatever forty five they all go off and 281 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:35.120 they do their things and we could see John the 282 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.399 Mailman again. You get to see, you know, all of 283 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:40.519 these different people show up. You know, the Andy Serkis 284 00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:43.559 character Martin, Like they're all there and it's just kind 285 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:47.399 of this fire that gets lit under everybody. But even 286 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:50.720 during that sequence, it's like, you know, oh, you know, 287 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:52.639 this movie is about this, and it's about this, and 288 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:54.480 we'll talk

about New Order and then they cut to 289 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:57.240 like a stadium scene of New Order playing and it's 290 00:15:57.279 --> 00:15:59.720 the actual New Order. They'll show like the real Happy 291 00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:02.759 Monday playing. I love that they do that. And yeah, 292 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:05.440 to your point, Axel doesn't feel like it's that we're 293 00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:08.879 gonna stop dead and try to trick you with this stuff. 294 00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:11.120 It's not cutesy or anything. It's just no, this is 295 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:13.159 a matter of fact. Like here we are at this 296 00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:16.600 shitty little hall watching this band, and look at what 297 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.679 it leads to. Here's the stadium concert that New Order 298 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:21.679 put on. However, many years later. 299 00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:25.000 It flat out tells you those guys over there, they're 300 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:27.960 way ahead of everybody. They're the Buzzcocks, and like there's 301 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:30.120 forty two people in the thing. The Buzzcocks are one 302 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:30.399 of them. 303 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:31.000 Back there. 304 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:33.759 Those guys they're wars Are they're going to become Joy Division, 305 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:35.919 They're going to become New Order. These guys over here 306 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:37.320 are going to be a huge band of that, and 307 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:40.159 the amount of people who did become bands on that 308 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:43.440 night is spectacular. I'm going to keep saying lightning in 309 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:45.679 a bottle with this movie, but like you have this 310 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:48.840 amazingly charismatic narrator, you can hang the whole thing on 311 00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:51.559 who was present at this event where all of these 312 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:55.559 other bands proliferated all in Manchester. I don't know, I'm 313 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:58.720 getting ahead of it, but it's just it's spectacular, like 314 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:01.080 that all of these things came together in this one moment, 315 00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:03.559 and that it's not the end of the movie. 316 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:06.200 Well, and people are familiar with like Liverpool and everything, 317 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:10.119 but not necessarily familiar with the Manchester scene. And just 318 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:14.920 how again another city that was made by industry. And 319 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:16.720 I love that this is very much a love letter 320 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:19.640 to Manchester because we hear about the history of Manchester. 321 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:22.359 You know, you get that sequence with the canals and 322 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:25.880 all those things and that old guy who was working 323 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:28.720 on them back in nineteen hundred. But yeah, you get 324 00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:30.920 like all of this stuff about Manchester and how it 325 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.279 was once this thriving industrial city and now it's completely 326 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:34.960 run down. 327 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:35.359 You know. 328 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.039 I think there's a reason why House was so popular 329 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:42.079 in places like Chicago and especially Detroit and Manchester because 330 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:45.079 we kind of had similar vibes as far as once 331 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.680 a great city, now really run down, kind of turning 332 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.279 to the music as somewhat of a salvation. And just 333 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:56.960 to have this whole idea of like the Pistols playing Manchester, 334 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.640 having like so few people showing up just makes sense. 335 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:04.000 But then to have this guy turn around and be 336 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:06.359 able to show them on television, be able to book 337 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:10.000 them on television, this little regional show. You know, I'm 338 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:12.720 sure it wasn't that little, but you know, we forget 339 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:15.680 about how like even though England is a pretty small place, 340 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:19.039 it's like, Okay, you got Granada TV over here, You've 341 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:22.960 got this television company over here, and just people in 342 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:24.880 the area were able to see this. It wasn't like 343 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:28.599 it was being broadcast across the entire country, much less 344 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:29.559 the entire continent. 345 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:34.559 It's like Tony Wilson had this little fiefdom. He was 346 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:38.759 a big fish and had a lot of gravitas. It 347 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.839 makes him a unique character. He's not Elvis Presley, He's 348 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:46.359 not an international hero. He's the right guy at the 349 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:47.079 right time. 350 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:49.640 No, the right guy at the right time, and then 351 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:53.720 bringing this music, this brand new music that really wasn't 352 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:56.119 getting I want to say punk was banned from a 353 00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.799 lot of the BBC, So him showing this stuffing bands 354 00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:04.319 on Granada Television was a huge deal and it was 355 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:06.400 one of the few ways that people could actually hear 356 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:08.799 this new music. It's kind of like, you know, we're 357 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:12.640 talking a few months ago about college radio and just 358 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:16.279 how tough it was to hear new music when you 359 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:19.640 were younger and before you know, the advent of the

360 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:21.839 Internet and everything, where it's just like, well, where can 361 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:24.720 I even hear these records? Where can I see these bands? 362 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:29.799 And here's this guy showcasing these bands every single week 363 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:32.759 before he ends up, you know, getting fired from that. 364 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:35.079 I think it was because of Iggy Poppy got fired 365 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:38.759 from Granada or from that particular show, I should say. 366 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.960 So it goes and then kind of goes into more 367 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:44.640 of the music business itself, the music, the clubbing, those 368 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:47.759 kind of things. Still working at Granada Television. I think, 369 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:50.559 I don't know how many years after that. So when 370 00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:54.519 they show those little, you know, slice of life clips 371 00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:58.400 of him interviewing people, and just like those you know, 372 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:02.039 five minutes before the evening uses over type of segments, 373 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:05.440 like the local color segments, and it's like that's how 374 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:07.920 he made his living for a long time. And I 375 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:10.799 love that. I was watching a documentary about Wilson and 376 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:14.000 they would call those the let's kill Tony moments where 377 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:17.519 they're trying to get him, you know, involved in very 378 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:21.319 dangerous things like hang gliding, like you know, the elephant washing, 379 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:22.839 those kind of things. 380 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.960 They gave him his own segment called Kama Cosney. The 381 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:29.079 hanglining segment was comic cowzy. We're just going to keep 382 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:32.279 circling around Tony Wilson because he's unavoidable here. But the 383 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:36.200 love of the movie of Manchester is completely born out 384 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:39.519 of Tony Wilson's love of it. Like, you know, he 385 00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:42.640 very easily could have shuffled off to London and made 386 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:44.640 a career there. You could have come to America and 387 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:47.240 been huge, I think as a presenter of something or other, 388 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.440 and he always stump in that town. He was always 389 00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:53.480 presenting bands from the town. And then when he becomes 390 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:57.039 from when he becomes a promoter and starts hosting nights, 391 00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.839 when he becomes when it becomes factory, before the hac 392 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:03.799 even it's all local talent, and I mean to his 393 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.079 dying day, he stayed. He you know, he tried to

394 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:09.440 get a film festival going in Manchester. He was always, 395 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:13.880 you know, just the biggest booster of that town. So 396 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:16.880 that's really admirable. The other thing, I think we watched 397 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:20.920 the same documentary what sort of came home for me? 398 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:23.880 Watching that was as much as we're talking about Steve 399 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:27.599 Coogan and his performance here Patty Constantine as Rob Bretton, 400 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:30.680 who is the manager of Joy Division and eventually New Order, 401 00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:36.119 it is unchanny. I don't think anyone here is doing 402 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:38.559 a caricature. No one's doing an impression here. I don't 403 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:41.279 think even Patty Considine is doing an impression here. But 404 00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:45.039 he just absolutely ooses that guy. That's my favorite character 405 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:49.559 in the movie, Rob Bretton, and what a fucking performance 406 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:52.119 from I sat up and took notice a considign like 407 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:55.920 right then and there, and I've been happily following so 408 00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:57.839 much so that, like I remember, two years after this 409 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:01.039 movie came out, him almost quitting because he was having 410 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:03.880 a crisis of conscience and just thinking please, no, not, 411 00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:06.319 you don't you've wit Wow. 412 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:09.279 I had no idea. I mean, I see him show 413 00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:12.759 up so often. He always just nails it. I mean 414 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:16.839 even in small, relatively thankless roles, like when he's one 415 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:19.279 of the two is he are they book called Tony 416 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:24.079 in Sean in Hot Fuzz where they're the two cops 417 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:27.839 with the mustache and just some of the looks that 418 00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:32.000 they give to Nicholas Angel and just them being completely thick. 419 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:34.319 I thought that he was wonderful in that because it 420 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:37.640 takes so much to play a dumbass like that. 421 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:41.000 He's got range. I mean, he was just recently on 422 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:42.799 House to the Dragon, that first he is He was 423 00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:45.119 the king on that series. I think most people are 424 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:47.759 going to recognize him from that. He's fantastic in that, 425 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:50.200 but he's mainly frail during that, so you don't get 426 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:52.680 to see how vital the man can be. Rob Bretton 427 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:56.559 was nothing if not vital. He's either completely bemused or 428 00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.720 ready to punch you in the fucking face with the 429 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:03.519 same vigor. It's a hell of a performance and a 430 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:04.319 hell of a character. 431 00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:07.359 It's funny because that documentary that we're talking about, and 432 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:09.400 I wish I could remember the name of it right offhand, 433 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:14.319 but it's like this movie. It hits so many of 434 00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:17.079 the same beats where it's like, Okay, we're going along, 435 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:20.519 and now here's the signing of Joy Division and they're 436 00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:24.200 about to go on tour in America and Ian kills himself, 437 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.680 and then there's New Order, and then there's Happy Mondays, 438 00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:30.799 and there's Factory Records, and just like gives you all 439 00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:35.599 those steps. Here's the Hotcienda, but it focuses on Wilson, 440 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:39.920 of course, but it doesn't spend as much time as 441 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:43.240 this movie spends. But it's very funny to me that 442 00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:46.839 it's like, Okay, here's the straight documentary and then here's 443 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:50.680 the biopic. I think that the biopic just adds so 444 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:53.640 much more because you get to really feel like you 445 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.599 know these characters and to have these stories and to 446 00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:58.440 have some of these things, and I know it's not 447 00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:01.559 one hundred percent true, and Tony Wilson will definitely tell 448 00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.279 you that if you listen to the audio commentary. How 449 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:06.759 cool is it that they have an audio commentary with 450 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:10.319 Tony Wilson just constantly. I never wore a quote like that. 451 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:12.880 Oh my god, I'm so excited. When I saw it. 452 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:16.200 I'm like, wow, he agreed to do it. What's great 453 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:19.000 about the entire movie. It's hard for people to get 454 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:21.400 a regular bio pick made because they have to like 455 00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:24.119 count out to so many masters. They you know, who 456 00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:26.680 owns the music rights, they they gotta clear it with them, 457 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:30.200 and who owns like the person's biography rights. The family 458 00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:32.079 got to clear it with them. Like there are some 459 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:36.720 there are made up stories in this movie regarding real people, 460 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:40.000 and they're just like, go ahead, you know, do Howard 461 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:43.680 Devoto never slept with Tony Wilson's wife in the bathroom 462 00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:47.039 of the of the club, And rather than say you 463 00:24:47.079

--> 00:24:49.680 can't use my image or my music, he shows up 464 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:52.960 in the movie and says this didn't happen, and it 465 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:56.039 only makes the movie any better. So it's another marvel 466 00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:59.920 of this film in that everyone signed off except the 467 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.119 Stone Roses, and only because they signed on too late. 468 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.680 Well and also them being what was it managed by 469 00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:11.119 his ex wife. Yeah, like all the people who he 470 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.440 didn't associate with anymore were the ones behind the Stone Roses. 471 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:16.480 I'm like, well, that's kind of a shame, because, like 472 00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:18.160 I was saying earlier, they're the ones I like the 473 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:21.799 best out of that whole Manchester scene, not including New 474 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:25.119 Order and Joy Division of course, and having seen the 475 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:28.759 anti Ironton Corbin film, I was like, Okay, that's a 476 00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:32.480 really good companion piece with this, where you really get 477 00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:34.920 some great you know, Ian Curtis and what was going 478 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:36.880 on with him and his wife and all those things. 479 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:40.599 But it complements it. It's not like, well, you can 480 00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:42.880 like one er, you like the other, you can't like both. 481 00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:45.880 I think that both of them tell very good stories. 482 00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:50.200 The scene where Tony Wilson's wife is having sex with 483 00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:54.559 the guy in the bathroom and then the actual man 484 00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:58.519 speaks up and says, this never really happened. It's a 485 00:25:58.599 --> 00:26:01.960 brilliant case of having cake and eating it too. The 486 00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:05.359 quote that comes up after that is if you have 487 00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:08.880 to choose between the truth and the legend, print the legend, 488 00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.480 and I think that this movie plays it down the 489 00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:15.920 middle and it gets to tell us the legend and 490 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:19.039 the truth at the same time, which I think is 491 00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:23.680 a more expansive view. And it's a way that film 492 00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:27.680 can sometimes tell the truth more than the facts. You know, 493 00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:30.799 some of these stories, they may not be factually correct, 494 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.119 but they're the truth of what people believed. 495 00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:38.319 I imagine that people who were familiar with this scene 496 00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:42.400 probably knew a lot of these stories. I wasn't familiar 497 00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:44.960 with Factory, I wasn't familiar with So It Goes, or 498 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.960 any of these things. Tony Wilson. I wonder if people 499 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.440 who were following this whole thing or other Man Unions, 500 00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:56.359 if they're just like, well, this is one hundred percent bullshit, 501 00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:58.839 or if they were just like, yeah, pretty close, you know, 502 00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:01.759 this is the best we're going to get and combining 503 00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:05.839 like different stories like oh, this guy fired at Tony 504 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:09.000 with a gun, but no, it was actually this incident 505 00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:11.400 over here, But they combined the two because that's what 506 00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:14.680 we do. That works for me. And I'm just curious 507 00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:18.839 what the general Man Union reaction to this one was. 508 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:24.200 I can only imagine that they have embraced this movie wholeheartedly, 509 00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:28.039 Like I can't think of a better love letter to them, 510 00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:32.880 with all the unsavoriness sort of laid bare. It doesn't 511 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:35.440 flinch for it from anything, you know. During the height 512 00:27:35.480 --> 00:27:39.720 of the Madchester scene, they were also called Gunchester because 513 00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:43.920 there was much gun violence that erupted around the scene, 514 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:47.640 and they absolutely portray it here. This film is a 515 00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:50.920 celebration of all of this joyousness and the music and 516 00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.720 the place and everything, but never once, does it not 517 00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:58.759 give us the underbelly of the things driving it, Like, 518 00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:02.519 you know, start with like just Ian Curtis's like epilepsy 519 00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:04.599 and you know, the sort of casual in the nature 520 00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:06.799 that his friends are treating him with, you know, and 521 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:09.720 just that the depressing nature of Manchester in general. 522 00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:13.440 Yeah, that whole scene is really tough when he has 523 00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:18.680 the first big fit and I think they again talking 524 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:23.559 about mixing fact and fiction, that they had that whole 525 00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:25.640 thing with the riot that was going on at the 526 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.400 same time, and I think Wilson was like, well, actually 527 00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.799 the National Front didn't come in and do this, but 528 00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:34.079 you know, it makes for good drama. And I'm like, yeah, okay, 529 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.440 exactly do what makes sense dramatically. It feels like you're 530 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:40.240 holding the spirit of it close to you and you 531 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:41.799 just need to move

the story along. 532 00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:44.119 Yeah, and you know what, the movie is sort of 533 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:48.480 obsessed with semionics, signs and signifiers, so oh yeah, So 534 00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:53.359 why not combine the minor controversy of Joy Division's name 535 00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:56.240 with a controversy that was also going on at the 536 00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:59.240 time in England, which was the Nationalist Front And there 537 00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:01.680 was a Ryan that occurred at a Joy Division show. 538 00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:04.400 So putting them all together there. It is like it 539 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:06.640 only makes sense, Like who would be offended by it? 540 00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:08.000 I don't understand? 541 00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:11.920 Are you not familiar with situationalism? I love when he's 542 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:15.119 like lecturing the journalists, who why am I blanking? 543 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:15.599 Un Rob? 544 00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:17.200 Rob Crydon Crydon? 545 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:20.880 Oh god. I always love them show up and man 546 00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:25.200 oh man, just him and Kogan together. Always the movies 547 00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:28.240 that they've made together, the appearances I've seen them do together. 548 00:29:28.359 --> 00:29:30.759 It's always such a pleasure. He's barely in here, but 549 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.160 whenever he shows up, I'm like, all right, this is 550 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:34.240 this is going to be good. 551 00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:39.880 You're just fucking wrong. That conversation between those two, by 552 00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:43.359 the way, the George Epstein Brian Martin Bucker real conversation, 553 00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:45.559 is one of my favorite moments in the movie because 554 00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:50.160 it not only Lanesbaar the egotism of Tony Wilson. He's 555 00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:53.319 mad because the behind the scenes guy they can't remember 556 00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:55.119 his name, and he's worried that that's going to happen 557 00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:59.039 to himself. But on a basic music nerd level, journalists 558 00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:02.039 suck and and this is a fucking music journalist he's 559 00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:05.039 talking to who doesn't know the difference between Brian Epstein 560 00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:08.279 and George Martin and has their names confused. I love 561 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:09.480 that exchange. 562 00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:11.519 You know, we were talking about the way that the 563 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:15.359 film looks before and things like the way that they 564 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:19.359 use black and white during the Joy Division scenes, the 565 00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:22.640 way that they have those real shaky titles that will 566 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.000 come up over things like when they have their first 567 00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:29.799 night with Joy Division and it says fact one on there, 568 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:32.440 and I like that they don't have to explain that, 569 00:30:32.599 --> 00:30:35.119 or they don't explain it where it's just like, yeah, 570 00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:39.640 they they labeled everything at factory and everything had like 571 00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:43.240 a FAC number before it, Like that's really smart. But 572 00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:46.079 they never take the time to say, Okay, the reason 573 00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:48.279 we're doing this. It's just like you know or you 574 00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:50.759 don't know, And it really doesn't matter if you don't know. 575 00:30:50.839 --> 00:30:52.559 It's not like they're hiding stuff from you. 576 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:55.079 If you're intrigued by it, you're gonna go fucking read 577 00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:57.359 about it and find out about it anyway. Yeah, what's 578 00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:00.000 funny is it's the movie that is the most spoonful, 579 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.119 or potentially could be, because we have a narrator breaking 580 00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:06.359 the fourth wall and addressing us, so this could be 581 00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:09.960 a hat on a hat, but it never is. It's 582 00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:11.799 always innovating and interesting. 583 00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:16.279 I'm curious about one scene how you guys felt about this, 584 00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:18.920 the scene where he goes and visits his ex wife 585 00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:22.200 and his kid. That seemed to kind of come out 586 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:24.000 of nowhere for me, and I'm curious what you guys 587 00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:24.880 thought about that one. 588 00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:29.359 I loved it. I thought the truth of something and 589 00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:32.960 the facts of something are different. And you know, the 590 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:38.680 story of Tony Wilson is this heroic, arrogant character, and 591 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:45.039 then there's this this part of who he is, with 592 00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:48.480 his wife being ill and him looking like he doesn't 593 00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:52.920 have the best relationship with his son, and you realize 594 00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:57.079 that to get the narrative of him being this big 595 00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:01.119 fish in a little pond, you're leaving out well some 596 00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:05.039 of the places where he missed and where the legend 597 00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:09.200 doesn't apply. And it's a really awkward moment because I 598 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:14.119 think sadly it gives the impression that his family just 599 00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:16.400 didn't fit into what he was doing. 600 00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:19.640 I don't think we needed to show what a prick 601 00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:23.400 Tony Wilson could be, but I think it's perhaps a 602 00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:27.359 counterpoint to because they do that a couple of

times, 603 00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:31.480 like after the Howard Devoto sequence in the bathroom with 604 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:35.559 his wife Shirley Henderson, who we should mention the cast 605 00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:36.720 is just fucking incredible. 606 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:37.519 You know. 607 00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:39.720 He says, yeah, we had crazy moments like that, but 608 00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:41.920 often we were just a normal couple. So we get 609 00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:45.720 shots of them just being normal and hanging out and whatever. So, 610 00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:48.920 you know, and that's when things are coming up, when 611 00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:51.680 things are bad, we get a view of his you know, 612 00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:54.559 how neglectual he was as a human. I think it's 613 00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:56.759 just part of the movie's philosophy of laying all the 614 00:32:56.799 --> 00:32:59.359 facts out for us so we can design for ourselves 615 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.440 how much we like or don't like someone. 616 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:06.599 I also find it fascinating because of the Julie Henderson character. 617 00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:09.720 Most people will know her as moaning Myrtle, which is 618 00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:12.799 very unfortunate because she's so much more than moaning Myrtle. 619 00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:17.160 He keeps talking to her about having kids, and you know, 620 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:20.079 we want to start family, and it'd be great if 621 00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:22.680 we had a couple kids running around. And when you 622 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.920 find out that he did have kids, it's like, oh, 623 00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:31.599 how disingenuous that feels, or just like he wants to 624 00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:35.359 start kids, start families with all of these different women. 625 00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:38.759 I mean, because he's got her, he's got Lindsey, he's 626 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:41.079 got the ex wife, and then eventually he's going to 627 00:33:41.160 --> 00:33:44.160 have and I can't remember the other lady's name that 628 00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:47.240 comes in later in the film when he does that 629 00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:51.960 very awkward let's say flirting but he has to tell 630 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:53.680 her that he's flirting with her and. 631 00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:55.720 Just very post thing. 632 00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:00.359 Yeah, very postmoderny. I think he even says that, right, yeah, like. 633 00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:03.400 He's setting up franchises around the United States, you know, 634 00:34:03.640 --> 00:34:06.559 or or I mean it's I like that we get 635 00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:08.880 that part of him where you can see that this 636 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:13.960 is a man who was looking for a home life 637 00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:18.280 that he could use as stability for his you know, 638 00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:23.119 for his crazy work life, and eventually

got that because 639 00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:26.719 they're still or we're still together until his death. Like so, 640 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.000 but you know, obviously he had drunk the kool aid 641 00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:33.039 as far as it's you've got to have the kids 642 00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:35.440 in order to make it be happy. 643 00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:38.679 Yeah, that is pretty creepy when he's doing the commentary 644 00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:41.559 and says, you know, oh yes, because he says in 645 00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:45.079 the movie, yes, we're still together, and then the commentary 646 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:47.960 on top of that, I mean talk about like levels, right, 647 00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:50.679 the commentary is just like oh yeah, and we are 648 00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:54.039 still together like the few months or years or whenever 649 00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:57.840 he recorded that commentary, Yes, we're still together. And then 650 00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:00.440 Tony Wilson is not with us anymore. So hearing this 651 00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:02.880 voice from beyond the grave and I had to go 652 00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:04.320 look it up and I was like, yep, they were 653 00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:05.960 still together when he died. 654 00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:09.920 So yeah. But in the commentary he's saying like, I'm 655 00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:12.760 not sure if we will be He's saying like so contentious, 656 00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:15.239 like you know she can leave me in any second now. 657 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:17.920 Yeah, it must take a lot to be with him. 658 00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:21.760 I was a little taken in by his flirting in 659 00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:25.119 that scene because I think when I was single, that 660 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:28.800 was kind of my approach. It's just I wasn't as successful, 661 00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:34.360 but using irony and self deprecation to try to sneak 662 00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:37.519 past defenses, I thought he was onto something there. 663 00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:40.000 It doesn't hurt that he can also say I look 664 00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:42.800 after a new order and the hacienda is my place. 665 00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:44.920 Yeah, I never had that one. 666 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:48.360 That's the thing though, when she says and you are, 667 00:35:48.519 --> 00:35:50.039 or like what do you do and he just goes, 668 00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:54.400 I'm Tony Wilson. Hello, you know Tony Wilson here. You 669 00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:57.239 know that's my job. My job is to be Tony Wilson. 670 00:35:57.239 --> 00:36:00.480 That's all I do all the time. Yeah, just that 671 00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:04.280 whole thing too, where Tony Wilson wasn't in it for 672 00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:07.039 I mean, he's in it for himself. But at the 673 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:09.679 same time, that whole contract that they draw up, you know, 674 00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:12.280 that really gets brought back, you know. He does that 675 00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:14.960 at minute thirty of the movie, so right as we're 676 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:18.280 switching from the first act to the second act, and 677 00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:21.400 then it comes back as the third act where Keith 678 00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:24.320 is it. Keith Allen is the guy who I just 679 00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:27.360 every time he shows up in anything, I just absolutely 680 00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:31.960 love him. He was the guy who dies in Shallow Grave. 681 00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:35.280 He did a whole series of commercials for the World 682 00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:38.199 Cup when the World Cup came to America back in 683 00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:41.199 the I want to say like ninety three, ninety four, 684 00:36:41.400 --> 00:36:45.559 maybe ninety five. They were fucking amazing commercials. And ever 685 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:47.960 since then I've just been like, Oh, this guy's somebody 686 00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:51.119 to watch, and just to have him show up at 687 00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:55.760 the very end as this complete prick music producer radio 688 00:36:55.960 --> 00:37:02.079 or sorry, album label guy, label executive and just figure 689 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:05.199 out that he doesn't need to deal with these assholes 690 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:08.239 at factory whatsoever. That he can just go directly to 691 00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:13.000 the bands. It's so fascinating because you're basically watching Tony 692 00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:15.800 slid his own throat because they're not going to get 693 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:19.840 any fucking money from this at all now because the 694 00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:24.559 bands own their own catalog, the bands own everything, so 695 00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:27.519 he's got nothing. He doesn't have a leg to stand on. 696 00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:30.679 And even when when Keith is like, oh, you know, 697 00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:33.840 I'm going to pay five million pounds for all of this, 698 00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:38.320 and Wilson's character is like, oh, you know that princely sum, 699 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:42.280 and I'm like, really, that's a princely sum. Five million 700 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:45.559 pounds for everything they've built feels like a drop in 701 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:47.239 the bucket. Feels like an insult to me. 702 00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:49.400 I think it would have been an insult if he 703 00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:52.320 had the rights to any of those artists music and regrets. 704 00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:53.840 I knew he had to say he was going to 705 00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:56.599 have to tell element in that next moment, and you know, 706 00:37:56.920 --> 00:38:02.639 obviously that really happened. And it what it does for 707 00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:07.400 me is it allows me to appreciate how smug and 708 00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:11.679 egotistical Tony Wilson is. Because if you're going to do 709 00:38:11.760 -->

00:38:17.360 that basically a gentleman's agreement that will work together until 710 00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:19.920 we don't want to work together on it anymore, and 711 00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:22.199 you go your way and I go my way, and 712 00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:24.280 then stuck to it and didn't fight it, didn't try 713 00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:26.880 and didn't try to take to court the validity of 714 00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:30.480 the blood napkin. You know, like it makes me love 715 00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:34.079 that guy honestly, and you know, and you know, I'm 716 00:38:34.119 --> 00:38:36.079 sure you listen to the commentary as well, where he 717 00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:38.639 said it didn't quite happen that way. He went to them, 718 00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:42.079 So he's in their office and it's like a ring 719 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:45.000 of executives watching him, and then they had to explain 720 00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:48.320 to him that he didn't known the rights because he 721 00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:51.480 thought he had. It's even worse than what they gave 722 00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:52.559 us in the movie. 723 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:58.480 Around that thirty thirty thousand pound table that they're at 724 00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:02.320 where I just love how Paddy Consadine is like attacking 725 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:08.360 him and apparently Kugan didn't know exactly when he was 726 00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:09.320 going to get attacked. 727 00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:14.599 Steve Coogan said, like, yeah, he always felt around Patty 728 00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:16.840 Conson and like, I didn't know if he was going to, 729 00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:20.119 you know, attack me at any moment. But evidently that 730 00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:22.960 is in keeping with character with Rob Breton, So he 731 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:24.800 was just that explosive. 732 00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:27.400 With the way the scene plays out in the movie, 733 00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:34.039 with the different narrative of them coming to Tony Wilson, 734 00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:39.119 that scene is is an amazing performance by Steve Coogan. 735 00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:45.559 You're watching this guy with a great amount of pride 736 00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:53.800 and also just the sinking feeling of having lost everything. 737 00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:57.199 So he's you can in the scene, you can tell 738 00:39:57.199 --> 00:40:00.360 that he's still proud that he made this decision, and 739 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:03.880 he's impressed with himself. He's stroked his own ego, and 740 00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:08.079 he's also very aware that he lost a lot of money. 741 00:40:08.840 --> 00:40:10.679 And Coogan just plays it perfectly. 742 00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:18.800 I never literally nor metaphorically sold out. I protected myself 743 00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:22.239 from having to have the dilemma of having to sell 744 00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:24.840 out by having nothing to sell out. 745

00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:28.039 He eventually did get fired by Granada for that Iggy 746 00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:31.639 Pomp show, but the one he almost quit over was 747 00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:34.400 they made him put on the Stranglers, which is this 748 00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.239 British punk men. They're fucking terrible and so he didn't 749 00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:39.599 want to put them on. They so they did. Here's 750 00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:42.239 another clever thing in the movie. So there's a montage 751 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:44.840 of the artists that showed that were shown on Granada, 752 00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:47.000 where they showed Susie and the Banshees and The Fall 753 00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:50.039 and the Jam, and the last one is The Stranglers, 754 00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:53.039 which they then cut to introducing us to Sean and 755 00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:55.800 Paul Ryder of the Happy Mondays long before they're the 756 00:40:55.840 --> 00:40:59.760 Happy Mondays sitting and watching television and Sean Rider going, oh, 757 00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:02.679 they're fucking terrible. Turn that off. So they even get 758 00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:04.840 to get like Tony Wilson that gets a little bit 759 00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:09.119 of revenge through the film because of that moral standing. 760 00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:10.119 So it was there. 761 00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:13.920 I've never heard a certain ratio. Are they any better 762 00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:16.079 in real life than they are in this movie? Because 763 00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:18.760 I thought they were absolute shite in this movie. 764 00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:21.480 Yeah, they are the butt of the joke in the film. 765 00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:25.239 They are before the Tropicalia kind of thing. They were 766 00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:29.559 kind of a pale imitation of joy Division. They're okay, 767 00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:34.360 but yeah, they're kind of They deserve the jokes that 768 00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:37.880 are being sort of levied against them, not Nick Hucknall 769 00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:41.400 from simply read like that he deserves better and they 770 00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:42.800 really should have signed the Smiths. 771 00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.599 Yeah. I love that God talks to Tony at the end. 772 00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:49.639 I mean that is so appropriate that he has a 773 00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:53.519 conversation with God, and of course God looks exactly like him, 774 00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.920 and I never really thought about that whole God made 775 00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:58.079 man in his own image, So if you talk to God, 776 00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:00.239 he looked like you, but it was me, you know. 777 00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:02.000 And then there was a line that they cut out 778 00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:07.760 after Patty's last line at where Coogan as Wilson says, well, 779 00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:09.519 except for the beard and the long hair. 780 00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:13.320 He's so self assured when he says, well, he looks 781 00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:17.400 like me, just like, of course, I'm this is my 782 00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:19.119 expectation for seeing God. 783 00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:20.760 Can I get that in writing? 784 00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:21.719 Yeah? 785 00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:24.000 And I loved our final scene is you know, just 786 00:42:24.039 --> 00:42:27.119 sort of another hangout moment, like even after everything everyone's 787 00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:28.719 been so they can just still hang out on the 788 00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:32.000 roof and smoke out and you know, just be friends. 789 00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:33.039 Where do you go in? 790 00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:36.239 The record's over right, and here they're closing the club 791 00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:39.880 and you get to see just it's funny because another 792 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:42.920 movie would be very sad at that point, and it 793 00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:45.920 is kind of melancholy. But you don't feel like they've 794 00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:48.760 been defeated. You know, you feel like, Okay, the system 795 00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:51.719 has defeated them, but at least they had a really 796 00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:53.880 good run, and at least they did make all of 797 00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:56.880 this great music and the whole thing that Wilson talked 798 00:42:56.920 --> 00:42:59.800 about with the Sex Pistols concert as well as all 799 00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:02.119 of the music that they were putting out from Factory, 800 00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:05.079 was Hey, somebody's going to listen to this and they're 801 00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:07.199 going to start a band, and then this other band's 802 00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:09.039 going to start, and then this other band's going to start. 803 00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:11.840 And he's just so much about the music. So it 804 00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:15.840 does make me question that line that we're talking about before, 805 00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:18.679 where he's like, it's not about me, it's about the music. 806 00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.599 And yeah, it does feel very disingenuous, but at the 807 00:43:21.639 --> 00:43:23.719 same time, there is a little bit of truth there. 808 00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:26.440 It is about the music. I mean, we do take 809 00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:30.519 the time to spend the time with Joy Division, we 810 00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:33.159 do take the time to spend the time with the 811 00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:37.679 Happy Mondays and with New Order, So there is that 812 00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:40.320 to it. You know, could you cut Tony Wilson out 813 00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:43.800 from this movie? No, absolutely not, because he is just 814 00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.760 such that driving force behind it. But you know, well, 815 00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:49.960 I thought about that other documentary and it's like, yeah, 816 00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:53.639 you can

tell a documentary story about Factory Records and 817 00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:55.960 about the Hacienda and all these things and not have 818 00:43:56.039 --> 00:43:58.920 Tony Wilson front and center. But he's got to be there. 819 00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:03.400 And especially this movie where he is just so charismatic 820 00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:06.480 and and just driving you crazy. I mean, he's he's 821 00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:09.119 almost like an anti hero in his own film. 822 00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:13.800 I know half a dozen nicknames from Manchester, England because 823 00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:18.239 of Tony Wilson, like the scene that he created out 824 00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:21.719 of a love for that city, did exactly what he 825 00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:24.960 wanted to do and continues to to this day. Because, 826 00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:27.519 like you said, the albums are out there. People are 827 00:44:27.559 --> 00:44:30.400 still listening to Joy Division, they're still listening to New Order. 828 00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:32.079 I don't know if they're listening to The Happy Mondays, 829 00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:36.000 but at least those two. And they're watching this movie 830 00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.679 and they're, like you said that that movie control about 831 00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:42.599 Joy Division. Kids are discovering these bands in this town, 832 00:44:43.159 --> 00:44:45.599 and it's in thanks to a large to a large 833 00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:47.119 part to Tony Wilson. 834 00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:49.800 I love the whole thing of them producing the album, 835 00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:54.119 and that whole the arc of the Andy Circus character, 836 00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:57.280 and especially as he starts to move from Heroin to 837 00:44:57.320 --> 00:44:59.400 Booze and he gains all that weight and they've got 838 00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.199 him in the fat suit, which looks really good. It 839 00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:04.920 doesn't look like, oh, we're going to put Andy Serkis 840 00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:06.400 in a fat suit and it's going to be funny. 841 00:45:06.920 --> 00:45:10.000 It works really well. I mean, Joy Division is such 842 00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:12.840 a strange band when you listen to them, I mean, 843 00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:15.920 it's so dark so often, but then there's little poppy 844 00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:19.400 moments to it. The way that Peter Hook plays the 845 00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:23.440 bass and is so different from anything else that you 846 00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:26.400 were hearing at the same time. And then yeah, the 847 00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:29.719 drum sound, and I love those little joking moments, like 848 00:45:29.719 --> 00:45:32.079 where they put the drummer up on the roof and 849 00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:34.360 Circus is like, don't worry, I'll come get you when 850 00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:36.719 we're done, and then they all pile into the car 851 00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:38.760 to listen to one of the songs. They leave and 852 00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:40.760 then you get to see the drummer still on the roof. 853 00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:43.280 They had completely forgotten them. I'm just like, yeah, there's 854 00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:47.360 little moments. I mean, this movie is fucking hilarious. Even 855 00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:51.440 though it deals with things like Ian Curtis's suicide, you know, 856 00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:54.320 you still get the funny moments around it, and it 857 00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:58.199 feels very proper when they stop and have a serious 858 00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:01.400 moment versus when they have those comedy moments. 859 00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:04.000 I'd love to get a look at this screenplay because 860 00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:07.159 it is kind of a wonder that it's able to 861 00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:10.039 compress as much time as it does and doesn't seem 862 00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:13.880 to skimp on any characterization here. I never felt like, oh, 863 00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:16.360 why didn't we spend more time with Joy Division, you know? 864 00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:19.639 Or Martin Hannett, like he's only given two or three scenes, 865 00:46:19.719 --> 00:46:23.280 but each one is so impactful that they last. But 866 00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:26.559 at the same time, it's come to my understanding that 867 00:46:26.599 --> 00:46:29.079 a lot of this is improvised, like a lot of 868 00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:31.239 the dialogue back and forth, and not just like the 869 00:46:31.239 --> 00:46:34.599 comedic guys who are known for it, Like everyone in 870 00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:37.400 every scene was encouraged to do it. So now what 871 00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:41.440 you've got is people improvising as lead characters, being true 872 00:46:41.480 --> 00:46:44.719 to those people that they're playing, while at the same 873 00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:47.119 time having to navigate their place in the scene. And 874 00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:50.400 then the greater movie and the fucking movie works, like 875 00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:52.079 how is that even possible? 876 00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:59.239 The way they introduce Joy Division is brilliant. It's very natural. 877 00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:03.679 You know, we're just we're in the club. There's these 878 00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:09.440 guys there. One of them starts getting in Tony Wilson's face, 879 00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:13.920 Oh that's going to be and Curtis, and then it 880 00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:18.360 keeps developing from there, so you feel like you've watched 881 00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:23.639 them come into their own in a very economical way. 882 00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:27.400 It doesn't take them very long to set that up. 883 00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:31.639 No, the editing in this movie is fantastic for what 884 00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:33.960 they show us and what they don't show us when 885 00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:36.880 they take those little breaks and we'll cut to

like 886 00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:40.159 the duck herding sheep and you're like, oh, yeah, he's 887 00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:44.199 still doing these segments on TV, Like this is kind 888 00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:46.480 of what's paying the bills right now? Is him doing 889 00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:49.519 all this TV stuff? And then later on with the 890 00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:54.159 Wheel of Fortune sequence, and just like bringing us back 891 00:47:54.199 --> 00:47:57.360 to those things just to remind us that what is 892 00:47:57.400 --> 00:47:59.719 going on outside of the story of the music and 893 00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:02.639 what's going on with the story of Tony Wilson, because 894 00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:05.559 especially later on, there's like we're running out of money. 895 00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:07.760 We don't know where we're going to get any money from. 896 00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:10.599 And then boom cut to him on Wheel of Fortune 897 00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:12.960 and you're like, oh, okay, so he's still doing all 898 00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:15.679 of this posting stuff just to get the money to 899 00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:19.639 probably pour right into the club. And the way that 900 00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:23.039 they're talking about, like you know the famous story about 901 00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:26.800 the first New Order single where it's you know, every 902 00:48:26.840 --> 00:48:31.639 time they sell one, they lose five pence and he's 903 00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:33.800 just like Oh, don't worry, it's not going to sell 904 00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:37.159 that much. And then immediately his voice over this was 905 00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:41.280 the best selling single in UK history. You're like, and 906 00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:44.159 you're losing money on every fucking one of them. 907 00:48:44.679 --> 00:48:46.800 But that's another part of his character that I kind 908 00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:49.639 of ignore, where he's you know, he sees the prototype 909 00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:52.280 and it's told this is going to be expensive. It's 910 00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:55.159 a trifle and you know, three color printing, and he says, 911 00:48:55.159 --> 00:48:58.239 I don't care. It's beautiful. Beauty should have no cost. 912 00:48:58.760 --> 00:49:01.280 And yes, they did lose sentence per thing, which is 913 00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:04.800 crazy considering New Order never had a hit single bigger 914 00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:07.679 than Blue Monday. But at the same time, don't you 915 00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:10.840 love that it's out there? Don't you know that he 916 00:49:11.079 --> 00:49:11.679 put it out? 917 00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:15.280 I love when they bring in the posters late and 918 00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:17.920 he's just like, you know, hey, the gig is tonight, 919 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:21.519 the gig is right now, and you're bringing me the posters. 920 00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:25.000 But then you get to see the Factory Records logo 921 00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:28.320 on there and just that yellow and black color scheme 922 00:49:28.360 --> 00:49:30.199 and you're like, oh, okay, so he's going to take 923 00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:33.199 from this and be able to build on top of that, 924 00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:35.639 And that's just what the whole movie feels like he's 925 00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:38.800 just taking little ideas and like building, building, building, Like, well, 926 00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:40.559 they've got these clubs in New York, why don't we 927 00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:43.079 have this club over here in Manchester. So that's why 928 00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:46.320 we're going to do the Hacienda. By the way, New 929 00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:48.599 Order wasn't getting any of their royalties because we were 930 00:49:48.599 --> 00:49:51.760 plunking them right back into this club. It's like, oh boy, 931 00:49:51.800 --> 00:49:55.000 I'm sure that wasn't very appreciated at the time, but 932 00:49:55.199 --> 00:49:57.000 at least you're being very honest about it. 933 00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:02.360 That scene where Peter Savile, who was that for Factory Records, 934 00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:04.360 He was their main designer, and he pops up every 935 00:50:04.360 --> 00:50:07.199 once in a while, always late, which is I love. 936 00:50:07.719 --> 00:50:10.000 And there are so many lines from this movie that 937 00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:12.119 now live in my head, starting with that one, which 938 00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:14.800 is when he unfolds the posters says it's beautiful, but 939 00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:18.159 it's useless, and as we know, nothing useless can truly 940 00:50:18.199 --> 00:50:21.920 be beautiful. Nothing useless can truly beautiful lives in my head. 941 00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:26.920 The line from Boethius, the Roman philosopher, the mutability is 942 00:50:26.920 --> 00:50:29.559 our greatest tragedy, but it's also our hope that lives 943 00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:32.480 in my head, Like so much of what Tony Wilson 944 00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:35.480 like just sort of spews and maybe it's Steve Coogan improvising, 945 00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:39.920 but like just lodged right in here. Oh yeah. 946 00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:42.559 To have the quote from Boethius both with the Wheel 947 00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:45.400 of Fortune thing obviously the wheel, and then to have 948 00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:49.159 Eckleson show up as the drunk or the street person 949 00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:52.199 and he's shouting about Boethius and the whole thing where 950 00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:55.360 he's talking about, you know, the wheel turning around and 951 00:50:55.400 --> 00:50:57.639 you're at your greatest heights and then pretty soon you're 952 00:50:57.679 --> 00:50:59.400 going to be right off of that. And I'm like, well, 953 00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:01.760 that's this movie. You know, that's the whole thing with 954 00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:02.840 this movie, where it's like. 955

00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:05.519 That's Tony in this movie. Yeah, he's referring to the 956 00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:07.599 hacienda like that's the thing that kept us all grounded, 957 00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:09.760 and just like you're saying that that is to Tonson. 958 00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:11.679 He's the center of the of the wheel. 959 00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.239 Exactly, and when he's at his greatest sight, he's going 960 00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:16.519 to come crashing down again and he's going to get 961 00:51:16.519 --> 00:51:19.480 back up there again. And that's this whole thing of like, okay, 962 00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:22.320 factory records, all right, the hacienda, Okay, you know, like 963 00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:27.239 as they're about to have their biggest victory with Joy 964 00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:30.199 Division going to the United States and having this big tour. 965 00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:33.440 That's when he and Curtis kills himself and it's just boomed. 966 00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:36.360 The wheel comes down again and then you move back 967 00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:38.519 and it's okay, now time to rebuild. Now we're going 968 00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:40.360 to be a new order, and we're going to do this, 969 00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:42.480 and you know, we're going to open up the club. 970 00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:46.400 And it's just this constant repetition of him trying these 971 00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:49.079 different things, and I, you know, I love it. I 972 00:51:49.239 --> 00:51:54.519 love when people are that creative or that determined because 973 00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:57.400 you know, I talk about how he feels self deluded, 974 00:51:57.440 --> 00:51:59.400 but I think you need to be a little self 975 00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:01.880 deluded in order to push yourself to do some of 976 00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:05.719 these things. And not ever question is nobody going to 977 00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:08.440 like this, What if I'm doing the wrong thing? You 978 00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:10.320 just think it's the right thing, and you make it happen. 979 00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:12.679 And it feels like he had the right people talking 980 00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:14.800 about all of these other actors that are in here, 981 00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:18.719 these characters, these real people, had the right people around 982 00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:22.000 him in order to make these things really come true. 983 00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:26.920 I think a lesser movie that wasn't as well directed 984 00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:30.920 and as well edited would not have been as cohesive 985 00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:35.320 as twenty four hour Party People is because it's really 986 00:52:36.280 --> 00:52:40.280 two stories. It's the story of the guy who discovered 987 00:52:40.360 --> 00:52:42.719 Joy Division and then it's the story of the guy 988 00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:48.159 who discovered the Happy Mondays. And it could easily be 989 00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:54.800 two movies sort of jammed together, but they actually use 990 00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:59.400 that to make the movie better. And with those metaphors 991 00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:04.079 of the wel you know it's the whole is more 992 00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:05.400 than the sum of its parts. 993 00:53:06.199 --> 00:53:08.119 When I had heard that they were making a movie 994 00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:12.599 about Joy Division and Happy Mondays and a New Order, 995 00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:15.840 I got really really scared, because it's very easy to 996 00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:18.800 fuck up a movie about any one of those subjects, 997 00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:22.039 never mind the total short shriftedness that could come with 998 00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:28.800 an anthology. Basically, but did you ever feel like anyone 999 00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:32.559 was less important or more important than anything else, including 1000 00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:35.679 our lead Like I mean, he is our lead character, 1001 00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:38.800 and he is the center of the film, but it 1002 00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:42.320 could just as easily have him fade in the background. 1003 00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:44.119 And this could have been about Rob Bretton if they 1004 00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:46.480 wanted to make it like that's the feeling I get, 1005 00:53:46.519 --> 00:53:49.119 Like anyone who's been involved from a factory from beginning 1006 00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:51.360 to end, like Albert Erasmus, it could have been his 1007 00:53:51.400 --> 00:53:54.039 story just as easily, and I think probably with the 1008 00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:56.360 footage they were given, they probably could have cut it 1009 00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:58.920 in that way. Speaking of the editing mic, like, you know, 1010 00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:01.840 there are some deleted scenes on the DVD. So there's 1011 00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:05.079 a sequence where Happy Mondays are performing or rehearsing for 1012 00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:06.840 the first time, and then they get into a fight, 1013 00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:09.440 and then they end up doing ecstasy for the first time. 1014 00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:12.320 So that's the scene that was cut together from who 1015 00:54:12.400 --> 00:54:14.760 knows how many tanks, and then what ends up in 1016 00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:17.800 the movie is basically what two shots it's just bez 1017 00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:20.280 going anyone wanted to have the best experience of their life, 1018 00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:22.320 and then shots of them taking the thing. And that 1019 00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:25.320 was like a three or four minute scene. So bravo 1020 00:54:25.480 --> 00:54:28.039 to the editor of this movie, who, like who probably 1021 00:54:28.239 --> 00:54:30.880 edited like how many versions before we got the version 1022 00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:31.360 we got. 1023 00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:34.760 Here's a sequence of the Happy Mondays and concert, cut 1024

00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:39.239 to Tony Wilson doing the news segment about the canals, 1025 00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:41.519 you know, and then like cut back to the Happy Mondays. 1026 00:54:41.559 --> 00:54:44.079 I'm like, this is great. Like the way that you're 1027 00:54:44.119 --> 00:54:46.920 pacing this thing out, it doesn't feel like like you 1028 00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:49.559 were saying nobody seems to get short shrifted. It is 1029 00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:52.800 very like, all right, now here we are on the 1030 00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:55.159 tour bus for the Happy Mondays. Now we're going to 1031 00:54:55.239 --> 00:54:56.920 cut to this other thing, and just to keep all 1032 00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:59.239 of those balls in the air at the same time 1033 00:54:59.719 --> 00:55:04.320 and integrating the real footage, integrating the footage that they 1034 00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:07.639 shot for this. I mean, during that Happy Monday scene, 1035 00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:10.039 it's like, Okay, here's one of their first club gigs. 1036 00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:13.559 Now here's when they're fully formed, and that might be actual, 1037 00:55:13.639 --> 00:55:15.880 real concert footage for all I know, because the way 1038 00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:18.920 that they integrate it so flawlessly. 1039 00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:21.480 Like I don't know one more thing about Bez than 1040 00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:25.199 I did before seeing this movie. They basically hit on 1041 00:55:25.239 --> 00:55:28.599 what you need to know about Bez. He can make ecstasy, 1042 00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:31.039 he can give you ecstasy, and he can teach you 1043 00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:33.599 how to dance to the music you're listening to. And 1044 00:55:33.639 --> 00:55:36.599 that's all I needed to know. And I didn't feel 1045 00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:39.719 coming away like why didn't we know more about Bez's 1046 00:55:39.719 --> 00:55:40.599 home line? 1047 00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:43.719 So you're not clamoring for the Bez theme sequel. 1048 00:55:44.199 --> 00:55:47.000 I would not say no to any Bez related entertainment. 1049 00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:49.960 By the way, speaking of great introductions of a character, 1050 00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:53.800 there was a UFO siding in Manchester at that time 1051 00:55:54.039 --> 00:55:56.480 to integrate that into the movie, and as it pulls away, 1052 00:55:56.679 --> 00:56:00.119 there's Bez. If you look at the spaceship itself, it's 1053 00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:02.360 made to look like numbers and symbols, but it just 1054 00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:03.039 as BEZ. 1055 00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:08.280 I'm hoping that Frank Control Boyce will be on this episode. 1056 00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:10.480 We've been going back and forth via Twitter, but it's 1057 00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:12.480 been a few weeks since I've heard from him, so 1058 00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:15.480 as I've moved away from Twitter, I don't know if 1059 00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:18.079 he's moved away as well. I sent him an email, 1060 00:56:18.119 --> 00:56:20.960 So hopefully he'll actually be on the show, because I 1061 00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:23.840 think that'd be a real cupe to hear those stories 1062 00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:27.159 that Wilson is telling, and even the stuff that Cougan 1063 00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:31.000 says on his commentary track, it sounds like Boyce was 1064 00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:35.239 right there at the beginning, like with Cougan even saying Okay, 1065 00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:38.000 we're going to do this, and so like getting ideas 1066 00:56:38.039 --> 00:56:40.639 from Cougan even and Cougin's what was it His. 1067 00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:44.519 Brother was in He was in a band that was 1068 00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:47.880 produced by Martin Hannett, so like they knew John the Postman, 1069 00:56:48.039 --> 00:56:50.519 so he's like deep. I mean Steve Coogan himself, his 1070 00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:53.360 one of his first stand up gigs was at the Hacienda, 1071 00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:57.320 so like he knew Tony Wilson like, yeah, you know, 1072 00:56:57.440 --> 00:56:59.920 if that interview goes off, Mike, keep all the prey 1073 00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:02.639 you can on Frank Control Boys for the screenplay and 1074 00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:04.880 his line of children's books, which are very very good. 1075 00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:05.639 Well. 1076 00:57:05.719 --> 00:57:08.559 Yeah, to know that he worked with winter Bottoms so 1077 00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:11.159 many times, and the last time I talked with contrump 1078 00:57:11.360 --> 00:57:14.000 Voice it was four code forty six, and you couldn't 1079 00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:17.880 think of a different movie than this one compared to 1080 00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:18.320 that one. 1081 00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:22.239 I mean, can they follow this with a Western? Yeah? 1082 00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:25.400 I mean the array of things that winter Bottom works 1083 00:57:25.400 --> 00:57:29.000 on is just spectacular. And I do appreciate that he 1084 00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:31.840 doesn't do these audio commentaries that He's just like, no, 1085 00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:34.960 I'll stay behind the scenes, you know, and just let 1086 00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:37.880 the actors and the actual subjects speak for themselves. 1087 00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:39.119 Yeah. 1088 00:57:39.159 --> 00:57:42.360 I was reading some of the literature you sent along 1089 00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:47.639 with the film, and the way they were describing winter 1090 00:57:47.679 --> 00:57:50.840 Bottom's work, I thought, this, this does not sound like 1091 00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:53.719 the director of twenty four hour Party people. This sounds 1092 00:57:54.079 --> 00:57:56.400 you know. I felt like it was Michael Hannikey or 1093 00:57:56.880 --> 00:58:00.159 you know, Werner Herdzog or someone like that, you know, 1094 00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:04.480 twenty four Hour Party People has such a playful

tone 1095 00:58:05.159 --> 00:58:09.239 to it, even as it deals with some very serious things. 1096 00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:12.480 There's one line in the movie that really caught me 1097 00:58:12.800 --> 00:58:16.400 when I was rewatching it yesterday, which was when he 1098 00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:21.159 starts talking about the shift from you know, the bands 1099 00:58:21.480 --> 00:58:24.519 to the DJ and the DJ culture and he's just like, 1100 00:58:24.840 --> 00:58:29.119 people in this club are applauding the DJ. And I'm like, Okay, 1101 00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:31.320 why is that so strange? But then I'm like, all right, yeah, 1102 00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:33.920 I guess when you think about it, the DJ's not 1103 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:36.480 doing jack shit other than playing records. I mean, I 1104 00:58:36.519 --> 00:58:38.119 know there's a lot more to it. You know, I've 1105 00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:41.159 got friends who are DJs. Obviously being in Detroit, I 1106 00:58:41.239 --> 00:58:44.880 know people that are DJs. But it's like, you're not 1107 00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:48.119 making the music, you're not the band, you're playing the 1108 00:58:48.159 --> 00:58:52.079 band's music. And so that foreign concept for Wilson. When 1109 00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:55.599 he's just like people are applauding the DJ, I'm like, yeah, 1110 00:58:55.639 --> 00:58:58.639 that's a real thing here. This is kind of wild 1111 00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:02.000 for you to be experiencing this, and that whole shift 1112 00:59:02.159 --> 00:59:06.159 of the band on stage to the DJ on stage. 1113 00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:09.280 They were again able to roll with that no problem, 1114 00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:13.159 but it just becomes this whole different mindset, and that's 1115 00:59:13.159 --> 00:59:15.840 the way that so many clubs are now where it's like, oh, 1116 00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:19.239 DJ so and so is playing or doing the music 1117 00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:22.760 this night, and it's like, okay, you know, like I 1118 00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:26.119 other than like some of the old school Detroit you 1119 00:59:26.119 --> 00:59:29.280 know DJs. I wouldn't be able to tell you anybody 1120 00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:31.760 who's a DJ these days and what they bring to 1121 00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:32.280 the party. 1122 00:59:33.119 --> 00:59:35.800 I'm in Las Vegas. The city is a lousy with DJs. 1123 00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:39.960 Every single club is advertising specifically their DJ come to 1124 00:59:40.280 --> 00:59:43.599 come here. For that I mentioned movies the lines that 1125 00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:45.920 live in my head. Another one is from that scene, Mike, 1126 00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:49.639 the beification of the beat, the idea that now the 1127 00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:53.639 music is is the medium being worshiped as it always 1128 00:59:53.719 --> 00:59:57.360 had been. So it sort of points to a misplaced 1129 00:59:57.559 --> 01:00:01.159 sort of celebration or

some misplaced you know when it 1130 01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:04.519 comes to these bands. But it is, as he said, 1131 01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:10.000 like obviously Manchester, the whole acid house scene was pulled 1132 01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:12.960 mainly from the house scene in Chicago. It was like 1133 01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:16.079 a mashup of their sensibilities in those so it's not 1134 01:00:16.119 --> 01:00:20.599 like they created that sound, but it is instructive that 1135 01:00:20.599 --> 01:00:23.480 that's where we are. I mean, look the Electric Daisy 1136 01:00:23.480 --> 01:00:26.480 Carnival comes here every year and the entire city shuts down. 1137 01:00:26.559 --> 01:00:28.960 So it is a way of music, and it is 1138 01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:32.960 a massive fan base for that kind of music, and 1139 01:00:33.079 --> 01:00:35.119 in many many ways, it began right there. 1140 01:00:35.639 --> 01:00:38.760 I won't fight with you about Chicago versus Detroit, but 1141 01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:41.920 you know, I just wanted to say Detroit's right in 1142 01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:42.320 the mix. 1143 01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:45.159 I guarantee you they were pulling from Detroit as well. 1144 01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:47.599 How about that? Can I just agree with you? 1145 01:00:48.079 --> 01:00:49.960 That's fine, We can agree to agree. 1146 01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:55.800 Father Malone, you said that this movie brought you into 1147 01:00:55.880 --> 01:01:00.880 the Happy Monday's camp. Yeah, how solidly did you join 1148 01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:01.480 that camp? 1149 01:01:02.440 --> 01:01:04.920 I will listen to a mix of their music that 1150 01:01:05.119 --> 01:01:08.079 I have made a playlist. Not all of their stuff 1151 01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:12.480 is fantastic, And obviously Tony Wilson is a man of 1152 01:01:12.599 --> 01:01:16.320 much hyperbole because Sean Ryder, I'm of the camp that 1153 01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:20.599 Seawan Ryder is mainly a fucking idiot, but on occasion 1154 01:01:21.119 --> 01:01:23.800 weaves a little bit of genius. That that song Kinky 1155 01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:27.519 Afro I can put on anytime, any day, any night, 1156 01:01:27.559 --> 01:01:31.159 and it's it. It is actually slightly genius when you 1157 01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:34.119 listen to those lyrics, which which I only like really 1158 01:01:34.360 --> 01:01:37.639 understood after hearing Tony Wilson sort of described them to me, 1159 01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:40.800 which is on that audio track, like once you once 1160 01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:44.280 you've deciphered the Shawn Ryder code, that the songs do 1161 01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:45.440 get a little bit deeper. 1162 01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:48.840 Weirdly, see, I don't know. I thought this time might 1163 01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:52.360 be the time that that I would catch the bug, 1164 01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:55.599 and I tried to listen to some Happy Mondays. I 1165 01:01:55.679 --> 01:02:00.880 find them fascinating, you know, as characters. I just never 1166 01:02:01.599 --> 01:02:05.000 never got the bug. I remember my friend Dave had 1167 01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:10.440 I think it was the Live CD, and periodically when 1168 01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:13.199 we were all hanging out in his basement, that would 1169 01:02:13.239 --> 01:02:17.639 just kind of come on. And I think most of 1170 01:02:17.719 --> 01:02:20.119 us did not side with Dave in that choice. 1171 01:02:20.800 --> 01:02:23.239 Well, I wouldn't listen to Live anything other Happy Mondays. 1172 01:02:23.239 --> 01:02:24.920 They're lucky they were standing up right. 1173 01:02:25.880 --> 01:02:26.119 Yeah. 1174 01:02:26.159 --> 01:02:29.000 And when it comes to the whole Joy Division New 1175 01:02:29.119 --> 01:02:33.000 Order debate, I'm usually much more in the Joy Division camp. 1176 01:02:33.159 --> 01:02:35.880 There are a few New Order songs that I really 1177 01:02:36.039 --> 01:02:40.440 like a lot, but that's not nearly as much as 1178 01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:44.519 even with what the two albums that Joy Division had. 1179 01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:46.960 Those to me are much more solid than the entire 1180 01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:50.840 catalog of New Order. But that could just be a 1181 01:02:50.840 --> 01:02:53.639 personal problem that I have no I'm with you. 1182 01:02:53.719 --> 01:02:55.800 See, I was part of the Joy Division is better 1183 01:02:55.840 --> 01:02:58.960 than New Order camp. Then after this movie, to this day, 1184 01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:01.960 I do like New Order and I love the story 1185 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:03.639 of New Order because I mean they say it in 1186 01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:06.320 the in the film like no band ever survives the 1187 01:03:06.639 --> 01:03:09.559 death of their lead singer. Well this one did, and 1188 01:03:09.679 --> 01:03:12.360 they were just as vital. They're still performing today for 1189 01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:12.960 Fox's sake. 1190 01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:16.679 I remember there was a concert that I can't remember 1191 01:03:16.719 --> 01:03:19.639 why I couldn't go to, but it was New Order, 1192 01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:23.519 Sugar Cubes and Public Image Limited, and I really wanted 1193 01:03:23.559 --> 01:03:26.280 to go to that. Yeah. Talk about a powerhouse, right. 1194 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:31.280 Yeah, that's that's absurd. That's Sugar Cubes. That's not even 1195 01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:33.639 Beewer just birthday. 1196 01:03:33.679 --> 01:03:38.360 Man, this movie musically changed my life because I had 1197 01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:42.039 not been familiar at all with Joy Division before this. 1198 01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:43.199 You know why. 1199 01:03:43.519 --> 01:03:47.320 When I saw it, my impression was that all punk 1200 01:03:48.360 --> 01:03:55.760 was sex, pistols, ramones, snotty bands with guitar riffs, and 1201 01:03:56.719 --> 01:03:59.400 so that's what I was expecting going into it. When 1202

01:03:59.400 --> 01:04:03.360 I'm like, oh, you know, punk post punk, and then 1203 01:04:04.159 --> 01:04:07.960 they got to the Joy Division songs and I realized this, 1204 01:04:08.239 --> 01:04:12.320 I like this, this is speaking to me here and it. 1205 01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:16.199 It kind of got me more into post punk and 1206 01:04:17.079 --> 01:04:22.559 then other musical bands that I was fond of, like 1207 01:04:22.800 --> 01:04:26.840 industrial stuff, Got Stuff. I kind of started to see 1208 01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:29.880 where the roots of that were and see how they 1209 01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:34.079 were all connected. So very grateful for this movie for 1210 01:04:34.679 --> 01:04:36.639 opening my eyes to a lot of great music. 1211 01:04:37.360 --> 01:04:39.000 You Know, one other thing I want to say real 1212 01:04:39.039 --> 01:04:42.079 quick before we head over to a break is I 1213 01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:47.039 also appreciate that they are putting in cameos by some 1214 01:04:47.119 --> 01:04:49.960 of the real people that were engaged with this, and 1215 01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:54.239 that they take the time at one point for Coogan's 1216 01:04:54.320 --> 01:04:57.480 character to recognize that and then go back through and 1217 01:04:57.519 --> 01:04:59.960 show you all of the cameos that they've had through 1218 01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:02.920 this movie. Because like when Mark from the Fall showed up, 1219 01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:05.039 I was just like, Hey, that's Mark from the Fall. 1220 01:05:05.119 --> 01:05:07.320 But they don't put a button on it, and they 1221 01:05:07.360 --> 01:05:11.079 don't even like have it pause and like a close 1222 01:05:11.159 --> 01:05:13.519 up of him or anything. It's just like, yeah, these people, 1223 01:05:13.599 --> 01:05:15.559 Like every once in a while it'd be like, well, 1224 01:05:15.559 --> 01:05:18.280 that feels like that must be somebody. Because the other 1225 01:05:18.320 --> 01:05:21.360 thing is, you know we've said this before, this movie 1226 01:05:21.400 --> 01:05:24.679 is littered with people who are familiar faces. You know, 1227 01:05:25.039 --> 01:05:28.400 so many of these actors that we've seen in other things, 1228 01:05:28.480 --> 01:05:31.920 and they just they're everywhere. I mean, everybody in this 1229 01:05:32.039 --> 01:05:34.480 movie is somebody, and if they're not, they end up 1230 01:05:34.519 --> 01:05:38.199 being part of the actual original bands or scene, which 1231 01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:40.440 was really cool to be able to see, like, oh, 1232 01:05:40.519 --> 01:05:43.119 this dude that just walked by that was the you know, 1233 01:05:43.239 --> 01:05:46.039 the guy who's playing the doorman who's taking all the money, 1234 01:05:46.519 --> 01:05:48.320 is the guy who was the doorman who was taking 1235 01:05:48.360 --> 01:05:50.599 all the money back then. Or like they even have 1236 01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:53.400 somebody who is a stand up comedian or an actress. 1237 01:05:53.679 --> 01:05:56.519 She's working the door at another point and she actually 1238 01:05:56.599 --> 01:05:59.360 worked the door at the hacienda originally. It's just like 1239 01:05:59.840 --> 01:06:02.559 that's great to be able to mix again this fact 1240 01:06:02.599 --> 01:06:03.760 in fiction altogether. 1241 01:06:05.079 --> 01:06:07.800 Yeah, and I'll say again, and nobody ever had a 1242 01:06:07.840 --> 01:06:09.960 problem that nobody was bitching about the way that they 1243 01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:12.719 were going to be portrayed or you know, you know, 1244 01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:17.280 their legacy. Everyone just sort of like rolled with it here, 1245 01:06:17.440 --> 01:06:21.199 which is just I don't know, like this movie just 1246 01:06:21.239 --> 01:06:23.679 continues to just impress, Like. 1247 01:06:25.199 --> 01:06:28.920 And it happens so late in the movie too. Things 1248 01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:32.199 are winding down and they by the way, you've seen 1249 01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:36.159 these people, here's this person, here's this person, and so 1250 01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:38.599 it kind of felt to me like, I don't know 1251 01:06:39.239 --> 01:06:41.880 what I'm supposed to do with that information because we're 1252 01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:47.000 we're rapidly approaching the end. I think it works sort 1253 01:06:47.079 --> 01:06:52.119 of to destabilize the narrative. So it's the movie's way 1254 01:06:52.119 --> 01:06:55.599 of saying, you know, don't be so sure what's real. 1255 01:06:56.480 --> 01:06:59.400 And I think that's a good message for any biopicked 1256 01:07:00.199 --> 01:07:01.679 sneak in there at the end. 1257 01:07:02.519 --> 01:07:04.440 They basically put a button on it in that scene 1258 01:07:04.440 --> 01:07:06.480 with Coogan sort of going like, this was him, this 1259 01:07:06.599 --> 01:07:09.920 was her, this was him, this was her, whereas they 1260 01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:12.519 needn't have done that and just let the music nerds 1261 01:07:12.679 --> 01:07:15.000 sort of geek out about it afterwards. Did you see 1262 01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:17.400 so and so and such and such. But like, if 1263 01:07:17.440 --> 01:07:20.199 like a regular biopick, if like Little Richard was going 1264 01:07:20.280 --> 01:07:21.360 to be in a scene, it would be like, and 1265 01:07:21.440 --> 01:07:23.880 here's the little Richard and. 1266 01:07:23.920 --> 01:07:27.559 So many of these folks we know their faces from 1267 01:07:27.760 --> 01:07:30.079 the music videos, and I like that there's just a 1268 01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:32.639 little bit of nods to some of the music videos 1269 01:07:32.639 --> 01:07:34.880 that they have, like when he goes into the hacienda 1270 01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:37.519 and it's all the little kids there and it's just like, oh, okay, 1271 01:07:37.559 --> 01:07:40.119 this is part of one of these videos and just 1272 01:07:40.159 --> 01:07:42.679

to like get that. And then even when it comes 1273 01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:45.719 to like you mentioned the spaceship or the scene with 1274 01:07:46.360 --> 01:07:49.320 God at the end of it, it feels so natural 1275 01:07:49.480 --> 01:07:51.639 when it's just these odd moments show up. And at 1276 01:07:51.639 --> 01:07:54.480 first I thought like, at least with the spaceship, I 1277 01:07:54.559 --> 01:07:56.880 was just like, is this a music video? Are we 1278 01:07:57.079 --> 01:08:01.119 like suddenly inside of a music video? No, but again 1279 01:08:01.199 --> 01:08:04.880 it's like they're they're even playing with the forms in 1280 01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:09.159 the movie. After Ian Curtis is dead, Wilson comes on 1281 01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:12.559 and he gives us a flashback of here's a better 1282 01:08:12.639 --> 01:08:15.559 time with Ian, like remember the good times with Ian, 1283 01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:18.279 and they flash back to a scene inside in the movie, 1284 01:08:18.319 --> 01:08:21.800 and I'm just like, oh, okay, like we haven't done 1285 01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:24.520 flashbacks in this movie at all, and now suddenly we're 1286 01:08:24.520 --> 01:08:27.800 going to do this, and it works. It works really well. 1287 01:08:28.399 --> 01:08:32.079 And while he's sitting like a video editing deck, like 1288 01:08:32.239 --> 01:08:36.560 just another meta once removed well, and. 1289 01:08:36.640 --> 01:08:39.399 He changes his hair is different in that scene because 1290 01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:41.880 he's right around the time he gets a new hairstyle 1291 01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:44.720 in the movie, and so I was like, oh, how 1292 01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:47.000 far in the future is this, But it's like, no, 1293 01:08:47.079 --> 01:08:50.880 it's however long between when he last saw joy Division 1294 01:08:50.920 --> 01:08:54.159 and when he's going to the funeral, he gets this haircut, 1295 01:08:54.239 --> 01:08:56.319 but yet there's that shot of him, yeah to your 1296 01:08:56.319 --> 01:08:58.840 point in the editing bay. And then it's like, well, 1297 01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:01.600 how long? How many months have passed? No, it's just 1298 01:09:01.640 --> 01:09:04.720 a few days. But things have changed, and now he's 1299 01:09:04.760 --> 01:09:07.880 going to show us this little flashback before we go 1300 01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:10.079 into the funeral sequence. 1301 01:09:11.279 --> 01:09:15.000 Doesn't it work out that we see Ian Curtis commit suicide. 1302 01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:20.880 Doesn't it cut from that to Tony with the duck 1303 01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:21.760 hurting the sheet. 1304 01:09:22.399 --> 01:09:24.680 No, because it's one of my favorite moments in the movie. 1305 01:09:24.800 --> 01:09:28.319 It's first of all, Ian Curtis's suicide is handled so 1306 01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:32.600 tastefully and packs such a punch that it made me 1307 01:09:32.720 --> 01:09:38.079 laugh and actually cry simultaneously.

The next scene is, which 1308 01:09:38.159 --> 01:09:41.439 is a scene invented for the film. Tony is interviewing 1309 01:09:41.479 --> 01:09:44.760 a town crier and then has the town cry that's right, 1310 01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:49.399 call out his death, which that's me crying over Eden 1311 01:09:49.439 --> 01:09:52.920 Curtis's actual suicide is nothing compared to what a beautiful 1312 01:09:53.000 --> 01:09:55.119 memorial that would be for anyone. 1313 01:09:55.399 --> 01:09:58.239 Yeah, that was great, and that was surprising when they 1314 01:09:58.239 --> 01:10:00.079 said that it was made up whole cloth, because I 1315 01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:03.079 was like, that just feels so real, and to have 1316 01:10:03.159 --> 01:10:06.920 that moment with Tony and his girlfriend together and she's 1317 01:10:06.960 --> 01:10:08.880 just like, oh, that was such a beautiful tribute. I 1318 01:10:08.920 --> 01:10:11.000 was like, oh, yeah, wow, that's amazing. And then when 1319 01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:13.000 I heard in the commentary that it wasn't real, I 1320 01:10:13.039 --> 01:10:16.439 was like, Wow, Okay, what an amazing thing for them 1321 01:10:16.479 --> 01:10:17.159 to come up with. 1322 01:10:18.239 --> 01:10:20.359 Tell mister Boyce if you speak to him that it's 1323 01:10:20.479 --> 01:10:23.279 just a fucking incredible screenplay, because that was the one 1324 01:10:23.319 --> 01:10:26.720 thing that I assumed was true. Like I knew the 1325 01:10:26.720 --> 01:10:29.399 hang gliding thing because you knew that they were mixing footage, 1326 01:10:29.439 --> 01:10:33.680 but like, did he interview the elephant elephant Kenny Baker 1327 01:10:33.760 --> 01:10:36.680 watching elephants? Maybe maybe not? Did he do the guy 1328 01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:40.159 with the canals? Maybe maybe not? This one totally sure 1329 01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:41.600 that it was it had happened. 1330 01:10:42.079 --> 01:10:45.239 Well, if we play our cards right, we're gonna hear 1331 01:10:45.319 --> 01:10:49.359 from screenwriter Frank control Boyce right after these brief messages, 1332 01:10:49.479 --> 01:10:51.399 come on back and hear the second part of her 1333 01:10:51.439 --> 01:10:52.279 discussion after that. 1334 01:10:58.159 --> 01:11:00.520 Hello, this is Aaron West. I am the author of 1335 01:11:00.560 --> 01:11:03.600 the A twenty four New Wave. In this book, I 1336 01:11:03.640 --> 01:11:05.640 look at A twenty four's output and I make the 1337 01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:08.159 argument that we are in a new wave movement right now. 1338 01:11:08.640 --> 01:11:11.880 A twenty four plays a major role. This book has 1339 01:11:11.920 --> 01:11:15.239 a supplemental podcast where each episode is a brief conversation 1340 01:11:15.359 --> 01:11:19.560 about an A twenty four related topic, whether an actor, director, 1341 01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:22.960 or even a genre. As I continue research for the 1342 01:11:22.960 --> 01:11:26.399 book and conduct interviews, I expect to record podcasts episodes 1343 01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:29.359 with people involved with the company. You can find the 1344 01:11:29.399 --> 01:11:33.239 podcast at sindjourneys dot com or wherever you find podcasts. 1345 01:11:33.640 --> 01:11:35.960 And we are proud to be members of the Someone's 1346 01:11:35.960 --> 01:11:37.960 Favorite Productions podcast network. 1347 01:11:40.720 --> 01:11:41.039 Hello. 1348 01:11:41.119 --> 01:11:42.840 My name is Kevin Tudor, and I'm one of the 1349 01:11:42.880 --> 01:11:47.319 three hosts of Almost Major Film podcast, dissecting many major 1350 01:11:47.359 --> 01:11:50.439 indie studios in the films they release. Every week, Myself, 1351 01:11:50.600 --> 01:11:54.560 Charlie Nash, and Brighton Doyle discuss overlooked, forgotten or bona 1352 01:11:54.600 --> 01:11:58.560 fide classic indie films via studio specific mini series. We've 1353 01:11:58.600 --> 01:12:02.399 previously covered numerous films from Artists and Entertainment, Lionsgate films 1354 01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:05.680 and New Line Cinema titles, including The Blair Witch Project, 1355 01:12:05.760 --> 01:12:09.680 American Psycho, Dogville, But I'm a Cheerleader, Saw Record for 1356 01:12:09.720 --> 01:12:14.479 a Dream, and Ring Master. You know the Jerry Springer Film. Anyways, 1357 01:12:14.520 --> 01:12:16.479 we have a fun time every week and we hope you. 1358 01:12:16.479 --> 01:12:17.159 Will join us. 1359 01:12:17.239 --> 01:12:20.199 Subscribe to almost major wherever you get your podcast now 1360 01:12:20.239 --> 01:12:23.920 proudly a part of the Someone's Favorite Productions Podcast Network. 1361 01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:29.439 If you're looking for more horror outside of the mainstream, 1362 01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:33.640 look no further than Unsung Horrors, a podcast about underseen 1363 01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:34.600 horror movies. 1364 01:12:35.319 --> 01:12:37.239 I'm Lance and I'm Erica. 1365 01:12:37.560 --> 01:12:40.039 Every other week we'll cover a horror movie with fewer 1366 01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:43.039 than one thousand views on letterbox. We'll even give you 1367 01:12:43.079 --> 01:12:46.000 double feature recommendations to pair with the movies we discuss. 1368 01:12:46.840 --> 01:12:50.239 From gothic to shot on video, from slashers to comedies, 1369 01:12:50.319 --> 01:12:53.880 from Giallo to jay horror, We'll cover all the subgenres. 1370 01:12:54.119 --> 01:12:56.880 So join us as we unearth these hidden gems of horror. 1371 01:12:57.359 --> 01:13:01.119 Follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. All at Unsung 1372 01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:05.159 Horrors available wherever you listen to podcasts and part of 1373 01:13:05.199 --> 01:13:08.319 the Someone's Favorite Productions Podcast Network. 1374 01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:19.079 Hello everyone, this is Malcolm McDowell. 1375 01:13:19.680 --> 01:13:22.840 I just want to say that this is a request 1376 01:13:23.479 --> 01:13:28.760 to

listeners of the Projection Booth podcast to become patrons 1377 01:13:28.840 --> 01:13:33.159 of the show via Patreon dot com, p A t 1378 01:13:34.199 --> 01:13:39.319 R e o N dot com, slash projection booth. 1379 01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:40.880 That's pretty simple. 1380 01:13:41.039 --> 01:13:42.039 I think you can do that. 1381 01:13:42.680 --> 01:13:46.000 It's a great show, and Mike, he provides. 1382 01:13:45.720 --> 01:13:49.800 Hours of great entertainment. So now it's time to give 1383 01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:53.600 back my little drovies. Settle down and take a listen 1384 01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:57.000 and have a sip of the old molocco and then 1385 01:13:57.039 --> 01:13:59.359 you'll be ready for a little of the old in 1386 01:13:59.520 --> 01:14:01.800 out and out real horror show. 1387 01:14:02.319 --> 01:14:03.720 Bye bye. 1388 01:14:06.880 --> 01:14:09.399 All right, we're back and talking about twenty four hour 1389 01:14:09.520 --> 01:14:12.399 Party people. I know we've really talked about this one 1390 01:14:12.479 --> 01:14:14.079 quite a bit, but there's a few other things I 1391 01:14:14.119 --> 01:14:18.319 want to talk about, especially the whole drug sequence with 1392 01:14:18.520 --> 01:14:22.439 the cocaine where Tony's not a big cocaine guy, but 1393 01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:25.680 he definitely is very high in this movie on cocaine 1394 01:14:25.680 --> 01:14:29.520 when he is going to interview somebody from Thatcher's government, 1395 01:14:30.159 --> 01:14:33.439 and the way that they shoot his story where he's 1396 01:14:33.520 --> 01:14:35.720 telling you know, I talked about before the break about 1397 01:14:35.760 --> 01:14:39.359 how he gave us a flashback to Ian Curtis after 1398 01:14:39.399 --> 01:14:42.399 he had committed suicide. But this whole thing where you 1399 01:14:42.439 --> 01:14:46.680 see these white lines of the freeway but they're actually 1400 01:14:46.960 --> 01:14:49.439 like white powder going down. I mean, talk about the 1401 01:14:49.800 --> 01:14:52.880 old Grand Master flash song, right, we've got the white 1402 01:14:52.880 --> 01:14:57.640 lines and just he's out of control the way that 1403 01:14:57.720 --> 01:15:00.880 the car is being covered in snow. But then when 1404 01:15:00.920 --> 01:15:03.800 you like look at the larger scene, it's just around 1405 01:15:03.800 --> 01:15:06.079 the car. I just love the way that they put 1406 01:15:06.079 --> 01:15:09.600 together that whole segment and how out of control he 1407 01:15:09.720 --> 01:15:13.520 is when he's trying to kit around but also not 1408 01:15:13.680 --> 01:15:16.640 kid around. It's like he's trying to do a one 1409 01:15:16.680 --> 01:15:20.399 of those journalistic attack journalism type things where it's like, oh, yeah, 1410 01:15:20.439 --> 01:15:22.640 I've got this government guy. I'm really going to give 1411 01:15:22.640 --> 01:15:25.000 it to him, but he fucking blows it before the 1412 01:15:25.039 --> 01:15:25.920 cameras are even on. 1413 01:15:26.920 --> 01:15:29.000 Yeah, the whole sequence is pretty incredible. It reminds me 1414 01:15:29.079 --> 01:15:32.960 of the helicopter sequence and Goodfellows. It keeps doing the 1415 01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:35.239 saw and it keeps tearing the sauce, and the editing 1416 01:15:35.279 --> 01:15:38.479 picks up here just to sort of match this frenzy 1417 01:15:38.319 --> 01:15:42.439 that comes on it with a good cocaine binge. But yeah, 1418 01:15:42.600 --> 01:15:46.600 the mixed media kind of approach here, the jumping from 1419 01:15:46.640 --> 01:15:48.319 this to that and the other and not only them, 1420 01:15:48.399 --> 01:15:51.720 gets really impressionistic, where you know, he's trying to get 1421 01:15:51.760 --> 01:15:54.920 to London by train, so the train becomes this metaphor 1422 01:15:55.199 --> 01:15:58.239 for the drug use. And at one point they're using 1423 01:15:58.239 --> 01:16:00.560 a tiny model and we pull out from the model 1424 01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:03.000 to see like the real scene, and like the train 1425 01:16:03.079 --> 01:16:06.239 tracks themselves become covered in snow, whereas the rest of 1426 01:16:06.279 --> 01:16:08.760 the landscape. It's yeah, it's pretty remarkable. 1427 01:16:09.680 --> 01:16:13.479 Yeah, all the metaphors for cocaine all right in one sequence, 1428 01:16:14.039 --> 01:16:20.720 doing rails, white lines, snow. Yeah, the whole thing of 1429 01:16:20.840 --> 01:16:23.520 him being on the train and the conductor like, no, no, 1430 01:16:23.560 --> 01:16:26.119 you're not allowed on here, but yet there's no way 1431 01:16:26.159 --> 01:16:29.319 he could get onto the train. And I like that 1432 01:16:29.399 --> 01:16:32.600 Cougan was saying that the train that they showed going 1433 01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:35.439 fast wasn't even there. That's like probably one of the 1434 01:16:35.439 --> 01:16:37.760 few digital effects at this well that probably had a 1435 01:16:37.800 --> 01:16:40.960 lot more digital effects than I'm even aware of. But yeah, 1436 01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:43.079 just to be like, no, no, that wasn't that thing. 1437 01:16:43.079 --> 01:16:45.079 And yeah, the model train, And I love how we're 1438 01:16:45.159 --> 01:16:47.680 following the model train and just go up to Steve 1439 01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:49.840 Coogan and it's like, I don't know if that was 1440 01:16:49.840 --> 01:16:52.640 two shots or one, if they just blended that perfectly, 1441 01:16:52.720 --> 01:16:55.199 or if they actually were following a model train on 1442 01:16:55.279 --> 01:16:58.159 a table and then brought the camera up to Cougan's face. 1443 01:16:59.000 --> 01:17:02.439 Boy sing it up. I mean, you know, a winter Bottom. Really, 1444 01:17:02.560 --> 01:17:05.359 you know, he's the I haven't praised that guy. I 1445 01:17:05.439 --> 01:17:08.159 keep praising the screenwriter just because that knocks me out. 1446 01:17:08.239 --> 01:17:11.279

But yeah, the level of craft of filmmaking here is 1447 01:17:11.319 --> 01:17:14.720 just out of hand. People keep praising Christopher Nolan for 1448 01:17:14.800 --> 01:17:18.680 all of his bullshit, Like look at this movie, Like 1449 01:17:19.359 --> 01:17:23.079 if he had only done this, I would retire proudly go, yeah, 1450 01:17:23.119 --> 01:17:25.000 I made that twenty four hour Party People movie. Now 1451 01:17:25.399 --> 01:17:27.399 just do nothing. What else do I need to do? 1452 01:17:27.560 --> 01:17:27.720 Right? 1453 01:17:27.960 --> 01:17:30.960 But yeah, this is just one of dozens of films 1454 01:17:31.000 --> 01:17:34.159 that he's made, and each one has its own unique 1455 01:17:34.159 --> 01:17:36.000 stamp to it. I mean, the I want to say, 1456 01:17:36.039 --> 01:17:37.800 I can't remember if it was right after this one. 1457 01:17:37.840 --> 01:17:39.680 You talked about how he did a Western, but pretty 1458 01:17:39.680 --> 01:17:43.479 soon after this they did that whole Tristan and Shandy 1459 01:17:43.560 --> 01:17:45.640 or Tristan Shandy film. 1460 01:17:46.119 --> 01:17:46.560 That's right. 1461 01:17:46.600 --> 01:17:49.880 It was twenty four hour Party People in this World 1462 01:17:50.039 --> 01:17:53.760 code forty six nine songs, which I have heard a 1463 01:17:53.800 --> 01:17:55.840 lot about that and I haven't watched it yet. And 1464 01:17:55.840 --> 01:17:58.800 then Tristan Shandy, which I remember when that played at 1465 01:17:58.840 --> 01:18:03.000 the Toronto Film Festival, and that's like another you know, 1466 01:18:03.119 --> 01:18:06.239 we're making this film, but it's the behind the scenes 1467 01:18:06.279 --> 01:18:10.159 of the film, and you've got Coogan and Brydon both 1468 01:18:10.199 --> 01:18:12.520 in there, and I'm just like, yeah, give me more 1469 01:18:12.560 --> 01:18:16.239 of these two together. And they're both playing like, you know, 1470 01:18:16.359 --> 01:18:19.439 one's playing Shandy, the other one's playing another Shandy, and 1471 01:18:19.479 --> 01:18:22.800 it's just like all right and yeah, also playing themselves 1472 01:18:22.880 --> 01:18:26.000 at the same time. I can't wait to check that 1473 01:18:26.079 --> 01:18:27.079 one out again. 1474 01:18:28.000 --> 01:18:29.760 That one has eluded me. Now I'm going to do 1475 01:18:29.800 --> 01:18:31.760 that immediately when we stopped talking there. 1476 01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:33.880 For some reason, I was getting that mixed up with 1477 01:18:33.920 --> 01:18:37.520 the one where it was Simon peg who's in this 1478 01:18:37.680 --> 01:18:41.840 movie for like a hot second, him and Andy Serkis 1479 01:18:41.920 --> 01:18:43.560 where they are grave robbers. 1480 01:18:44.239 --> 01:18:46.920 Oh, the Burken Hair movie, Burke and Hare, thank you, 1481 01:18:47.119 --> 01:18:48.439 the John Landis film man. 1482 01:18:48.600 --> 01:18:50.840 Okay, I wondered why I turned that off right away? 1483 01:18:51.720 -->

01:18:52.479 It was not good. 1484 01:18:52.880 --> 01:18:56.560 That's that makes sense. Then that makes sense. Okay, So yes, 1485 01:18:56.680 --> 01:18:59.399 Tristram Shandy good, Burkenhair bad. 1486 01:18:59.479 --> 01:19:02.600 All right, we solved it. Yes, yeah, So it's. 1487 01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:04.760 Kind of like this. I haven't seen Party Monster yet, 1488 01:19:04.760 --> 01:19:07.880 but Party Monster very different movie, I imagine than twenty 1489 01:19:07.880 --> 01:19:09.000 four hour Party People. 1490 01:19:10.039 --> 01:19:12.439 I keep saying, what I marvel this film as as 1491 01:19:12.479 --> 01:19:16.199 far as biopicks go, often my go to when it 1492 01:19:16.199 --> 01:19:18.600 comes to a musical biopick is I say, as long 1493 01:19:18.640 --> 01:19:21.079 as it doesn't do anything that they do and walk 1494 01:19:21.119 --> 01:19:24.399 hard the Dewey Cox story, then you're on the right track, 1495 01:19:24.600 --> 01:19:26.720 Like if you don't fall into any of those cliches. 1496 01:19:26.960 --> 01:19:29.680 But what people really need to be doing is aiming 1497 01:19:29.840 --> 01:19:34.600 for this level of biopick, the willingness to go in 1498 01:19:34.640 --> 01:19:38.960 any direction to get the story told. It needs to 1499 01:19:39.000 --> 01:19:41.159 be first and foremost with anyone trying to do this 1500 01:19:41.279 --> 01:19:43.039 kind of a thing. I would think, I mean, obviously, 1501 01:19:43.479 --> 01:19:46.079 this has is such a sprawling story that it lends 1502 01:19:46.119 --> 01:19:52.000 itself to a fractured kind of narrative storytelling. But good god, 1503 01:19:52.439 --> 01:19:54.840 I saw one of the last movies I saw in 1504 01:19:54.880 --> 01:19:58.920 a theater was a test screening for that Whitney Houston biopick. 1505 01:20:00.039 --> 01:20:02.199 Happened to get tickets to it and went to it, 1506 01:20:02.560 --> 01:20:05.800 and my god, man, it was punishing. I was angry 1507 01:20:05.880 --> 01:20:08.800 by the end of that movie. So I'm glad this 1508 01:20:08.880 --> 01:20:11.800 movie exists as a balm at the very least. 1509 01:20:12.119 --> 01:20:17.359 I just get so sick of regular biographies, like book biographies, 1510 01:20:17.399 --> 01:20:19.960 where it's like, Okay, we're going to start with the person, 1511 01:20:20.079 --> 01:20:24.000 and then we're going to hear all about their parents, 1512 01:20:24.079 --> 01:20:27.199 their grandparents, their great grandparents. You know what, I don't 1513 01:20:27.239 --> 01:20:29.920 give a shit unless it has something very pertinent to 1514 01:20:29.960 --> 01:20:32.720 do with their life. But you know what, blend it 1515 01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:36.239 in don't stop the whole thing cold by chapter two 1516 01:20:36.760 --> 01:20:39.119 and bore me to fucking tears, and I'm just like 1517 01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:43.039 fast forwarding quote unquote flipping pages to get to the 1518 01:20:43.039 --> 01:20:45.000 next chapter where it's just like, please just give me 1519 01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:47.119 the person's life. I want to know more about them, 1520 01:20:47.199 --> 01:20:49.239 not their parents and their grandparents. 1521 01:20:49.880 --> 01:20:53.239 Yeah, it's the Larry Karazewski Scott Alexander think. Don't tell 1522 01:20:53.279 --> 01:20:56.279 the whole persons. The person's whole life get picked. Why 1523 01:20:56.279 --> 01:20:58.319 are we talking about the person to begin with? Tell 1524 01:20:58.399 --> 01:20:59.119 us about that. 1525 01:21:00.079 --> 01:21:02.920 Give me that Joan Baiez biography where it's like, okay, 1526 01:21:03.159 --> 01:21:07.119 you know it's here's the return of Joan Baiez, and 1527 01:21:07.159 --> 01:21:08.920 now we're going to talk about her life up to 1528 01:21:08.960 --> 01:21:10.520 this point and then we're going to see the big 1529 01:21:10.560 --> 01:21:15.000 triumphant concert and off we go. There you go. Problem solved. 1530 01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:16.960 Don't give me everything. 1531 01:21:18.079 --> 01:21:18.520 I don't know. 1532 01:21:18.920 --> 01:21:22.840 I kind of appreciate a kitchen sink approach, but I 1533 01:21:23.039 --> 01:21:27.520 like it when it's framed like twenty four hour party 1534 01:21:27.560 --> 01:21:32.640 people in you know, we're printing the legend and the 1535 01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:33.439 truth at. 1536 01:21:33.359 --> 01:21:35.000 The same time. I don't mind. 1537 01:21:35.800 --> 01:21:40.039 I don't mind getting all the bits and pieces, especially 1538 01:21:40.119 --> 01:21:44.199 if they're contradictory, and that's I think that's fascinating when 1539 01:21:44.920 --> 01:21:48.000 there are elements of a person's biography that we still 1540 01:21:48.199 --> 01:21:48.680 don't know. 1541 01:21:49.640 --> 01:21:51.920 Oh, I'm absolutely fine with that, Like, you don't have 1542 01:21:52.039 --> 01:21:55.159 to tell me everything, Like that's why I don't need 1543 01:21:55.199 --> 01:21:58.399 to see like, oh, little Tony Wilson grew up here 1544 01:21:58.399 --> 01:22:01.199 in the suburbs of Manchester and when he was a kid, 1545 01:22:01.279 --> 01:22:04.199 he was so precocious. It's like, no, just start me 1546 01:22:04.279 --> 01:22:07.560 off with that hang gliding sequence and just kind of 1547 01:22:07.600 --> 01:22:10.159 show the shit that he had to put up with 1548 01:22:10.199 --> 01:22:13.640 and that he was stuck doing for this little TV station. 1549 01:22:14.399 --> 01:22:16.640 And then it becomes the full movie and give me 1550 01:22:16.720 --> 01:22:19.439 that like breaking of the Fourth Wall where he's just like, Okay, 1551 01:22:19.600 --> 01:22:21.439 this is what you're going to see in this film. 1552 01:22:21.479 --> 01:22:24.680 I'm like, that works for me. So of course, there 1553 01:22:24.680 --> 01:22:28.720 are going to be biographies that are completely different, something 1554 01:22:28.800 --> 01:22:31.399 like The Complete

Beetles, where they do go into the 1555 01:22:32.399 --> 01:22:35.760 growing up of Paul and George and John and Ringo. 1556 01:22:35.840 --> 01:22:38.159 But with that it seems to make a lot more sense, 1557 01:22:38.279 --> 01:22:41.319 especially because they were kids when they got together, and 1558 01:22:41.359 --> 01:22:45.319 to see Lennon and McCarthy didn't have that much time 1559 01:22:46.159 --> 01:22:49.479 before they met, you know what, they were like fourteen fifteen, 1560 01:22:49.560 --> 01:22:51.960 sixteen years old, and then they stayed with each other 1561 01:22:52.039 --> 01:22:55.840 for you know, another fourteen fifteen sixteen years after that, 1562 01:22:55.960 --> 01:22:58.560 it's like, yeah, this was half of their life is 1563 01:22:59.439 --> 01:23:02.800 being together and forming this band, and there was just 1564 01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:05.039 that little bit of time beforehand. So you can give 1565 01:23:05.079 --> 01:23:07.720 me that little bit of time beforehand before they met. 1566 01:23:07.760 --> 01:23:09.920 But it makes sense in a story like that, I 1567 01:23:09.920 --> 01:23:12.279 don't need young Tony Wilson and a story like. 1568 01:23:12.239 --> 01:23:16.119 This, Yeah, well with that that movie The Complete Beatles, 1569 01:23:16.199 --> 01:23:19.319 it's essential to know what they were like as kids. 1570 01:23:19.359 --> 01:23:22.439 And it's briefly done and lightly done. But in any 1571 01:23:22.479 --> 01:23:26.159 other biopink, can you really think of something they show 1572 01:23:26.199 --> 01:23:30.119 in that person's childhood that actually affects what they end 1573 01:23:30.199 --> 01:23:33.159 up doing as adults, or more often than not, we 1574 01:23:33.199 --> 01:23:36.479 get a scene that will foreshadow, like we see them 1575 01:23:36.520 --> 01:23:39.760 behaving like we know they're going to behave right right. 1576 01:23:39.680 --> 01:23:42.600 Like a young Elton John and that Elton John movie 1577 01:23:42.720 --> 01:23:43.960 Rocketman or whatever. 1578 01:23:43.680 --> 01:23:47.199 That was, right, or Tina Turner at you know choir 1579 01:23:47.359 --> 01:23:52.239 practice like blowing the doors off the place, or Whitney Houston. 1580 01:23:53.239 --> 01:23:55.520 Yeah they had they had a young women Houston. They 1581 01:23:55.520 --> 01:23:59.119 certainly did. It's just like it's I don't know, just silly. 1582 01:23:59.119 --> 01:24:00.680 Oh yeah, you know what I was actual thinking. Speaking 1583 01:24:00.680 --> 01:24:03.319 of Scott Alexander and Mark Karazuski in The People Versus 1584 01:24:03.399 --> 01:24:06.680 Larry Flint, they give us him as a young boy, 1585 01:24:06.880 --> 01:24:10.000 like selling moonshine and knocking out his father because they're 1586 01:24:10.039 --> 01:24:12.800 drinking my profits. Like, oh, he's gonna be a cutthrow businessman, 1587 01:24:12.960 --> 01:24:13.319 got it? 1588 01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:16.239 That makes total sense.

Yeah, But then when you get 1589 01:24:16.279 --> 01:24:18.279 to ed Wood, it's like, I don't need to see 1590 01:24:18.399 --> 01:24:20.199 ed in the Army. I don't need to see any 1591 01:24:20.199 --> 01:24:22.880 of this stuff before he starts his whole Hollywood venture. 1592 01:24:23.439 --> 01:24:25.640 That's the movie. And then we don't get to see 1593 01:24:26.039 --> 01:24:29.000 everything after that either, which is absolutely fine. You know, 1594 01:24:29.039 --> 01:24:32.279 it's a slice of just a few years of this 1595 01:24:32.319 --> 01:24:34.680 guy's life. That's all I needed. 1596 01:24:35.720 --> 01:24:38.079 You can go out on a triumph because everyone has 1597 01:24:38.079 --> 01:24:38.920 them in their lives. 1598 01:24:39.119 --> 01:24:42.800 You just stop the story there. That's all one way 1599 01:24:42.920 --> 01:24:47.720 the film keeps Tony Wilson in check and keeps him 1600 01:24:47.760 --> 01:24:53.720 from becoming too saintly. Is frequently, even after he's done 1601 01:24:53.760 --> 01:24:59.359 amazing things, he will be insulted by a coworker or 1602 01:24:59.399 --> 01:25:04.279 a strain for his day job as a journalist, like hey, 1603 01:25:04.479 --> 01:25:09.199 nice job. You know you're a wanker, And you know 1604 01:25:09.279 --> 01:25:14.159 it's peppered throughout the movie, So anytime you know Tony's 1605 01:25:15.399 --> 01:25:19.399 getting to a point where you're starting to think very 1606 01:25:19.479 --> 01:25:22.760 highly of him, the movie knocks him back a bit 1607 01:25:23.159 --> 01:25:27.560 because it just shows that the people who see him, 1608 01:25:27.840 --> 01:25:29.520 most of them or a lot of them, see him 1609 01:25:29.520 --> 01:25:30.079 as a joke. 1610 01:25:31.039 --> 01:25:34.439 They have little to no respect for mister Wilson, including 1611 01:25:34.560 --> 01:25:37.119 Rob bretton who's I think delivers the best one where 1612 01:25:37.119 --> 01:25:38.960 he's drunk and he says, you know your problem. I 1613 01:25:39.000 --> 01:25:41.720 know your problem, and you don't. You're a cunt, Like 1614 01:25:41.760 --> 01:25:44.199 that's basically his business partner. 1615 01:25:44.600 --> 01:25:47.520 And then Wilson tries to get one up on him like, oh, 1616 01:25:47.560 --> 01:25:50.319 I already knew that, so you're not telling me anything. 1617 01:25:52.159 --> 01:25:56.359 You had written on the thing about the the hedonistic 1618 01:25:56.439 --> 01:26:00.800 debauchery of the Happy Mondays as they're traveling about. That 1619 01:26:01.000 --> 01:26:06.439 is a scene Father Malone that is directly from the 1620 01:26:06.479 --> 01:26:11.840 dewey Cox playbook, but I feel like to reference another 1621 01:26:12.960 --> 01:26:15.920 music movie. I feel like that scene goes to eleven 1622 01:26:16.560 --> 01:26:21.600 and it takes it further than a lot of debaucherous 1623 01:26:21.720 --> 01:26:22.319 scenes go. 1624 01:26:22.439 --> 01:26:28.279 And I appreciated that in dewey Cox. No let that. 1625 01:26:30.359 --> 01:26:35.079 This is my debaucherous period moment is also in a 1626 01:26:35.119 --> 01:26:36.520 dewey Cox type parody. 1627 01:26:37.239 --> 01:26:39.600 Oh, like when the Happy Mondays are on the island 1628 01:26:39.640 --> 01:26:41.800 and you get that title card that comes up that 1629 01:26:41.880 --> 01:26:45.199 says like the Adventures of Ryderson Crusoe. 1630 01:26:46.039 --> 01:26:48.399 Oh, I was thinking of when they're in the buses 1631 01:26:48.800 --> 01:26:52.199 and there's all the girls and all the drugs, and. 1632 01:26:53.000 --> 01:26:55.520 Yeah, when they talk him into doing cocaine. 1633 01:26:55.800 --> 01:27:01.560 With a little bit of Charleston's year above that Tony. 1634 01:27:01.960 --> 01:27:05.079 And I like how Tony and the commentary is just like, ah, 1635 01:27:05.279 --> 01:27:08.119 you know, music wasn't good when it was fueled by cocaine. 1636 01:27:08.319 --> 01:27:12.319 Grass and acid, yes, great, you know, especially ecstasy, but 1637 01:27:13.079 --> 01:27:16.319 cocaine was not good for the music industry. I'm like, okay, 1638 01:27:17.119 --> 01:27:21.119 all before the whole heist of the lyrics, which I 1639 01:27:21.119 --> 01:27:25.199 thought was just that whole thing when they are getting 1640 01:27:25.239 --> 01:27:28.760 held up by their own band for stealing the tapes, 1641 01:27:29.680 --> 01:27:31.720 the whole thing where he comes in like he's some 1642 01:27:31.760 --> 01:27:34.159 sort of gangster, the guy from the Happy Mondays, and 1643 01:27:34.199 --> 01:27:36.800 Tony's like, okay, listen, I'm going to give you all 1644 01:27:36.800 --> 01:27:39.279 the money in my wallet. I've got fifty pounds here. 1645 01:27:41.159 --> 01:27:43.039 He just folds completely. 1646 01:27:43.159 --> 01:27:46.600 It's like all right, great, and you know, again another 1647 01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:49.239 thing invented for the movie. Like you know, Tony Wilson 1648 01:27:49.239 --> 01:27:51.720 has said there was no ransom involved. It was just 1649 01:27:51.800 --> 01:27:53.800 that they sent them the tapes with nothing on it. 1650 01:27:54.399 --> 01:27:57.119 But there was a scene where there was an event 1651 01:27:57.159 --> 01:27:59.359 where he fucking came in and shoon up the place. 1652 01:27:59.399 --> 01:28:02.479 So like put the two together, Like just the inventiveness 1653 01:28:02.479 --> 01:28:03.920 of the screenplays fantastic. 1654 01:28:04.680 --> 01:28:06.800 But got he gets shot up, shot at by the 1655 01:28:06.800 --> 01:28:08.680 guy from the Happy Money He's he gets shot at 1656 01:28:08.760 --> 01:28:12.520 by Martin the producer. It's just like, and this is 1657 01:28:12.560 --> 01:28:17.399 not even the Gunchester sequence of the movie, which is crazy. 1658 01:28:18.319 --> 01:28:21.239 During the Gunchester sequence, guns became very very easy to 1659 01:28:21.359 --> 01:28:24.439 get in England. But but you really had to

want 1660 01:28:24.479 --> 01:28:26.640 to go get a gun to kill Tony Center at 1661 01:28:26.720 --> 01:28:27.479 least scare him. 1662 01:28:27.880 --> 01:28:30.960 Yeah. I love when when Andy Serkis is like, oh, 1663 01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:33.520 I've got something for you Tony and he reaches into 1664 01:28:33.560 --> 01:28:35.760 his pocket like he's pulling out a gun and instead 1665 01:28:35.800 --> 01:28:39.640 he like flips in the bird. It's like, piss off. 1666 01:28:39.880 --> 01:28:42.760 I was like, that's great. It's always great to see 1667 01:28:42.800 --> 01:28:46.199 Andy Serkis in these little roles like before he got 1668 01:28:46.279 --> 01:28:49.600 big with Gullum and everything, just because he always brought 1669 01:28:49.760 --> 01:28:52.840 so much to these performances and he still does. I mean, 1670 01:28:52.880 --> 01:28:55.159 I love the guy as an actor, and I just 1671 01:28:55.479 --> 01:28:58.560 think that he just goes all out whenever he's in anything, 1672 01:28:58.640 --> 01:29:00.560 especially when it's this tiny like this. 1673 01:29:01.520 --> 01:29:04.239 Yeah, he's so fucking versatile because we know he can 1674 01:29:04.279 --> 01:29:07.800 go really hard with the performance. But Martin Hannett is 1675 01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:12.640 pretty sedate and incredibly funny, like he's the funny part 1676 01:29:12.680 --> 01:29:16.159 of the movie nearly every or memorable funny line as 1677 01:29:16.199 --> 01:29:20.319 that is like playing fasta busloa And yeah, this is 1678 01:29:20.359 --> 01:29:23.439 the first time I think I saw Andy Serkis because 1679 01:29:23.880 --> 01:29:26.199 the Fellowship of the Ring had already come out by 1680 01:29:26.199 --> 01:29:27.600 the time that this would this one was. 1681 01:29:28.079 --> 01:29:29.600 Yeah, I forgot that it was that late. 1682 01:29:30.159 --> 01:29:31.880 I saw his name in the credits and watching the 1683 01:29:31.880 --> 01:29:33.439 movie going like where is he? Where is he? Where 1684 01:29:33.479 --> 01:29:35.279 is he? Just trying to find where Gollum is. 1685 01:29:35.760 --> 01:29:37.720 All right, guys, let's go ahead and take another break, 1686 01:29:37.760 --> 01:29:40.000 and we're going to play a preview from next week's show. 1687 01:29:45.039 --> 01:29:49.119 Hello Philthy movie lovers, my name is Gentry Austin. 1688 01:29:49.520 --> 01:29:51.600 Now on in case he'scott, and we're. 1689 01:29:51.319 --> 01:29:55.359 The hosts of the Sin Syndicate Film podcast. For Something 1690 01:29:55.399 --> 01:30:02.359 Weirdos Anti Criterion Bros. And Joseph Sarno Sionados join us 1691 01:30:02.399 --> 01:30:05.840 semi weekly as we peer into the adults only theaters 1692 01:30:05.880 --> 01:30:09.880 in sticky floored cinemas of the golden age of sexplitation, 1693 01:30:10.880 --> 01:30:14.319 when the morals were loose, the laws were murky, and 1694 01:30:14.359 --> 01:30:18.680 the intercourse was all simulated. Find us now on the 1695 01:30:18.720 --> 01:30:26.159 Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network. 1696 01:30:30.039 --> 01:30:32.880 The story of the two young reporters who cracked the 1697 01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:34.279 Watergate conspiracy. 1698 01:30:34.359 --> 01:30:37.359 They stumbled into leads. Certainly it comes into a surprise 1699 01:30:37.439 --> 01:30:38.960 to human counts of the cida. 1700 01:30:39.399 --> 01:30:40.760 No no surprising. 1701 01:30:40.800 --> 01:30:42.640 All they tripped over clues. 1702 01:30:42.760 --> 01:30:45.279 We like to see all material requests of the White 1703 01:30:45.279 --> 01:30:46.640 House following. 1704 01:30:46.399 --> 01:30:48.079 Has transactions and confidation. 1705 01:30:48.760 --> 01:30:50.720 This holding as a coverup is run on our notes. 1706 01:30:51.239 --> 01:30:58.439 They saw the greatest detective story in American history, all 1707 01:30:58.520 --> 01:30:59.199 the presidents. 1708 01:30:59.479 --> 01:31:01.319 That's right. We are back next week. With a look 1709 01:31:01.359 --> 01:31:05.199 at something very different all the President's men just in 1710 01:31:05.279 --> 01:31:07.880 time for the inauguration. Until then, I want, I think 1711 01:31:07.920 --> 01:31:10.920 my co host Father Malone and Axel. So, Father Malone, 1712 01:31:11.039 --> 01:31:12.159 what is the latest with you? 1713 01:31:12.239 --> 01:31:12.439 Sir? 1714 01:31:13.319 --> 01:31:16.039 You can find me over on my show Midnight Viewing 1715 01:31:16.079 --> 01:31:18.960 over on the weirding Way Media Network. That's a twice 1716 01:31:19.000 --> 01:31:22.600 a week program when we look at horror anthologies. Mike, 1717 01:31:22.680 --> 01:31:24.960 you're one of our co hosts where we're looking at 1718 01:31:24.960 --> 01:31:27.439 talents from the dark side. We do that with the 1719 01:31:27.520 --> 01:31:30.840 Chris Daisho and Antonio Lapour filmmaker drops by once a 1720 01:31:30.840 --> 01:31:34.239 week to talk about horror or anthology movies. And then 1721 01:31:34.239 --> 01:31:36.239 I've got Father Malone's Weekly round Up, which is a 1722 01:31:36.279 --> 01:31:39.079 weekly show I do with my dog Very. 1723 01:31:38.920 --> 01:31:41.079 Cool and Axel. What's going on in your world, sir? 1724 01:31:41.920 --> 01:31:45.199 Well as every time I'm on this show, I'm still 1725 01:31:45.239 --> 01:31:50.119 debating pulling the trigger on my own podcast, and every 1726 01:31:50.159 --> 01:31:52.920 time I get on the show, I think this is 1727 01:31:52.920 --> 01:31:58.000 the time, hopefully this is the time. I'm currently rewatching, 1728 01:31:58.319 --> 01:32:02.600 not rewatching. I'm watching Myammivice the show for the first 1729 01:32:02.640 --> 01:32:08.760 time and posting episode updates on my social media, which 1730 01:32:08.840 --> 01:32:13.239 is delighting me because I grew up. I was born 1731 01:32:13.279 --> 01:32:17.960 in nineteen seventy seven, So seeing things from the eighties 1732 01:32:19.000

--> 01:32:24.079 presented unronically, it's balm. It's very nice. 1733 01:32:25.119 --> 01:32:29.159 I love your screen grabs and your descriptions of these things, 1734 01:32:29.520 --> 01:32:32.119 especially seeing some of these actors that I just had 1735 01:32:32.199 --> 01:32:35.840 no idea they were in Miami Vice. So thank you 1736 01:32:36.039 --> 01:32:37.079 so much for doing that. 1737 01:32:37.159 --> 01:32:37.399 Sir. 1738 01:32:38.560 --> 01:32:41.560 Hey, it's the Lord's work. In the episode that I'm 1739 01:32:41.600 --> 01:32:45.399 watching right now, the guest star is Miles Davis. 1740 01:32:45.439 --> 01:32:47.800 Wow, I remember that episode. 1741 01:32:48.119 --> 01:32:49.000 I've heard of him. 1742 01:32:49.800 --> 01:32:53.680 I was listening to his music after I started watching 1743 01:32:53.720 --> 01:32:57.560 it and thinking, this is an amazing American innovator. This 1744 01:32:57.680 --> 01:33:03.680 is someone whose name will be remembered forever. And he 1745 01:33:04.119 --> 01:33:06.279 played a sex trafficker on Miami Ius. 1746 01:33:07.199 --> 01:33:09.000 As Father Malone said, if you want to hear more 1747 01:33:09.039 --> 01:33:12.800 of my voice, please go on over to Waterwaymedia dot com, 1748 01:33:12.840 --> 01:33:14.600 where you can check out all of the shows that 1749 01:33:14.640 --> 01:33:18.439 I work on. You can also make a donation to 1750 01:33:18.520 --> 01:33:21.960 the Projection Booth over at patreon dot com slash Projection Booth. 1751 01:33:22.279 --> 01:33:25.000 Every donation we get helps the Projection Booth take over 1752 01:33:25.039 --> 01:34:01.000 the world. 1753 01:34:06.520 --> 01:34:07.199 Should you be. 1754 01:34:14.800 --> 01:34:22.840 Sweat potting, guys can't smile? The one song the twitching 1755 01:34:23.000 --> 01:34:30.000 four love putting, the blessing their scouts. Sometime I'm going 1756 01:34:30.039 --> 01:34:38.439 to church, So why you choyday yet can robbery church? 1757 01:34:40.239 --> 01:34:42.000 So why don't you charge. 1758 01:34:44.439 --> 01:34:52.079 Such a twitter pot lay their scout smile that sound 1759 01:34:52.520 --> 01:34:57.159 the chatting. 1760 01:34:56.520 --> 01:34:58.800 Blasting their scout smoll the. 1761 01:34:58.960 --> 01:35:03.079 What sop see you through the pitch? 1762 01:35:03.199 --> 01:35:05.079 You went on your tip. 1763 01:35:07.279 --> 01:35:08.760 And there's a brood. 1764 01:35:09.920 --> 01:35:12.560 You you know the not art have. 1765 01:35:14.840 --> 01:35:20.560 They'll be running on the race track. They're running on 1766 01:35:20.800 --> 01:35:26.039 the race track. But that mother to fay to fad, 1767 01:35:26.960 --> 01:35:37.119 but that money to race to talk how pats of 1768 01:35:37.279 --> 01:35:43.600 people lasting fans cats ways the way by. He's at 1769 01:35:43.640 --> 01:35:48.680 a good dress, a pie and the self destroyed. 1770 01:35:49.560 --> 01:35:55.840 But an PA's a people lasting friends cat smile the 1771 01:35:56.119 --> 01:36:00.039 lights out Winter twenty follow up Patter. 1772 01:36:08.600 --> 01:36:09.399 The One. 1773 01:36:34.119 --> 01:36:39.880 Time Time. 1774 01:36:43.199 --> 01:36:55.479 Time No Days. 1775 01:37:13.479 --> 01:37:17.279 A talk by Pa Laster 1776 01:37:17.640 --> 01:37:19.439 For its kind smile or b