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Neil Callanan: Hey, it's Neil. Welcome back to the Measured Impact Pod. One of the best parts about doing this show is asking a bunch of smart people the same question and hearing how differently the answers are, the challenges, the obstacles that they face, the inspiration that drives them to do the things that they do. So we've been pulling these episodes together to use as a compilation episode just like this one. I find these episodes really interesting when we put all these answers side by side. I think you'll hear them differently than you will the first time around. And if you haven't, this is a great place to start. Let's dive in. You were a big part of advocating for investigating and pushing our team identify the concept of a halo effect. So tell me What you define a halo effect as for brand like Aspen and, or Ben and Jerry's and what does it mean for you when you walk into a meeting and you have that kind of data.
Chris Miller: I mean, it is making the case that values drive value, that by associating your product or service with an authentic point of view on the world, you boost both things. Everything's lifted. The data that we had access to at Ben & Jerry's showed during the, was it the 20 2022 midterms, or maybe it was the '24 general election, the work that we did doing voter turnout in Georgia, which had nothing to do with ice cream, was targeted at a specific low propensity voter, hitting them with messages from our partners that had been designed specifically to ⁓ increase propensity to participate in the election. So these were issues around things like common sense gun reform, access to reproductive health services, et cetera. Those paid advertisements significantly outperformed from a short-term sales growth ROI perspective an ice cream advertisement. It's a double whammy. Correct. Correct. And I
Neil Callanan: Yeah. So they're doing both. They are literally performing better on the front end and giving you a prospect of having long-term growth over time.
Chris Miller: And I get like, you know, it takes a little bit of, trust that, you know, I mean, we put, several million dollars into that work focused in Georgia. You know, and it takes a little bit of courage to say, okay, I'm not gonna run the $3 million cookie dough campaign. We're gonna go focus on turning out young, low propensity voters in Georgia. And that in doing that, there is this incredible side benefit, which is it sells even more ice cream. But if we
Neil Callanan: Yeah.
Chris Miller: had designed the get out the vote campaign to sell ice cream, it would have failed on both fronts.
Jay Tandan: So we've noticed that on balance, the stuff we post about our advocacy is more potent than our product stuff. That's not always the rule, but on balance over the course of a year when you look at social performance. it's only expected that, you know, when we post stuff after a high visibility moment that the algorithm's gonna juice that a little bit. And so we've tested
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both the approach of unintentionally posting a product thing after an advocacy thing, or if we had an advocacy thing that got a lot of traction, all right, what's the next thing we want them to know about that issue? We'll post that organically next, even though it's not gonna perfectly reach the same group of people, we know algorithmically that will have legs. And so it can also help us sort of double down on our advocacy initiatives as well.
Alan: Yeah, and I think it came from a moment where James and I sort of, you know you get a lot of people who say, don't touch this issue. Don't touch it. Don't do it. Don't go anywhere near it. There's too many risks. And I think at a certain level as human beings, like, James and I looked at each other and said, if we don't do this, like we're bullshitters. we're totally like we're not who we say we are to other people, like our brand is not that if we had stayed silent and we stayed silent for a long, long, long, long, time. You know, that's an eternity when you know you have this, this project that you're working on. And just to put it out there in the world. All we did was launch a beer, a collaboration beer. The headline of it is, that's what it really was. But it went all around the world. It went to the States, it went to Australia. People kind of understood that what we were doing was much more of a statement of solidarity. And I think that's really how we treated it. And we almost had built a brand that was willing to, but also capable of carrying that collaboration, that humanitarian spirit of collaboration. And I think that's what, if I'm reflecting, most proud of, right, that we were also trusted by those guys to do that program, that collaboration with them and on their behalf at a really, really delicate time, which exposes them to more scrutiny in a very, very difficult situation. because they're in the Middle East and their whole thing since 1994 was like they wanted to make the world a better place through beer, right? I mean, you could literally not make it up that there was this other Brewgooder albeit not in a, know, wrapped in the same business model, but ultimately existed for the exact same reason. And if we could get a platform for them or anybody where there could be this little fraction of solidarity being shared over a beer or through beer, Yeah, mean, online sales were the highest they were ever were, right? I mean, it was the equivalent of a Christmas over lockdown where that's just like a totally skewed, you know, picture because that was the main method for lots of people with buying craft beer. there was millions of eyeballs on the campaign for sure. And then there was inbounds from 16 different countries Saying, like, we don't have enough beer in our supply chain, I guess, to even meet that demand, right? Like we were kind of caught off guard and we were prepared for the absolute worst. We were prepared for people to say, sorry guys, you made such a political statement here, even though it wasn't. I mean, check it out. Like it was all about humanity, solidarity. the tolerance for failure or existential threat that that thing did was significant, but also be like, well, if we can't make an impact through that type of campaign, not that this was designed in order to make that impact. But then there was absolutely no chance that the Brewgooder concept could work in the beer industry. You know, we almost had to put the sort of like edge case way, way out there.
James: I guess so far we know it's successful in as much as that campaign, that initiative raised a significant sum in the immediate term for Taybeh and the chosen charities, which was the primary purpose for doing it. Beyond Alan and I's personal values and saying that that was the right thing to do, we saw a immediate outcome there that was positive for those people ultimately. I think going back to Alan's point around, we would die on this decision. You know, it was almost that getting off the fence moment, I think, for us. You we've done a lot of positive things. We've given a lot of money away to various charities, both on a global and a local level. But I think this one was quite defining in terms of that particular issue. and a lot of people, a lot of businesses have stayed very quiet, you know, despite the fact ⁓ maybe they are built in a similar way to us or have particular values. I was quite alarmed by just how much silence there was out there. ⁓ And I think, you know, going back to Alan saying in five years time, looking at ourselves and saying, you know, would we be proud of the fact if we were also stayed silent or not? I think it was that decision to get off the fence and commit and Truthfully, we did not know what the repercussions of that were going to be, particularly on a commercial level. As much as we think we connect with consumers that align to us, there's a lot of people that just buy our beer because it's on deal or they like the look of it that potentially don't align with that, whether you see it morally or politically or otherwise. ⁓ And ⁓ there could have potentially been negative implications of that. We might still see that play out in years to come if that story and campaign continues to bubble out there.
Peter Dering: And so the line item that shows up on an actual balance sheet is called goodwill. And that is what we have been developing over the past 16 years. Now, that's not entirely the environmental story or the incredible employee retention that we have here. It is also just found in the how do people feel about the company. You describe yourself as a fanboy. And if I had a nickel for every time, I kind of see someone in the airport with a peak bag. I just like, hey, how do you like your backpack? And they just get profusely into how much they like their backpack. But not only that, like the brand. And then about half the people go like, hey, do I recognize you? And of course I get that little dopamine hit there. I'm like, yes, we made a cool brand where there are fanboys
Neil Callanan: Ha ha.
Peter Dering: and here's one out here in the wild. And I still, I get such satisfaction out of that because it's people who like have really connected with a company in a way that's unique. And I have that connection with only a few companies myself, you know? And I know that Peak Design is one of those brands that's capable of that. And I can't tell you precisely what component of that is our willingness to stand up for what we believe in and our willingness to put a good amount of our money toward environmental causes, but it ain't nothing. That's for sure.