บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Elle Macpherson on Her Celebration Phase

go against her doctor's 34 00:02:11.629 --> 00:02:16.620 suggestions for conventional treatment, opting for a holistic approach. Today, 35 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:20.759 Elle is in clinical remission and celebrating wellness in all 36 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:24.280 aspects of her life, saying she has never felt better 37 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:28.180 than she does now. Elle's humor, honesty, and open heart 38 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:32.479 are inspiring. Her story is one of authenticity, transformation, and 39 00:02:32.539 --> 00:02:36.360 real beauty. And of course, the importance of always trusting yourself. 40 00:02:36.900 --> 00:02:39.740 I know you'll love this conversation and Elle as much 41 00:02:39.780 --> 00:02:42.520 as I do. I'm Hoda Kotb. Welcome to my podcast, 42 00:02:42.900 --> 00:02:43.599 Making Space. 43 00:02:43.620 --> 00:02:54.949 Two seconds of. 44 00:02:57.360 --> 00:02:59.060 How was that two seconds? Was it good? 45 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:03.810 That centering breath before you do anything important, and I 46 00:03:03.819 --> 00:03:06.870 believe being here with you is important. Gosh, it's changed 47 00:03:06.930 --> 00:03:07.349 my life. 48 00:03:07.770 --> 00:03:10.550 When did that start? When did you become aware that 49 00:03:10.569 --> 00:03:12.030 you needed something more than. 50 00:03:12.050 --> 00:03:12.710 Go, go, go? 51 00:03:13.129 --> 00:03:17.159 When go, go, go wasn't working. You know, like it's 52 00:03:17.180 --> 00:03:19.199 a bit like a bull in a china shop. And 53 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:21.460 then I realized that if I just take a beat, 54 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:25.639 take a breath, a long, slow, deep breath, connect to 55 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:29.689 my heart. It calms me down and I'm able to 56 00:03:29.849 --> 00:03:32.750 center myself and I'm able to speak from that place 57 00:03:32.830 --> 00:03:34.629 instead of the frenetic noise. 58 00:03:34.689 --> 00:03:35.349 Yeah, spinning. 59 00:03:35.370 --> 00:03:38.110 And especially, you know, you're an intelligent woman, you're a 60 00:03:38.150 --> 00:03:41.990 career woman. When you're used to managing so much, it's 61 00:03:42.050 --> 00:03:45.740 really easy just to be stuck in your head. And 62 00:03:46.250 --> 00:03:47.860 that's not a comfortable place to. 63 00:03:47.860 --> 00:03:50.479 Be a lot of the time. I was talking to 64 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:52.180 a friend of mine and he was saying, you know, 65 00:03:52.930 --> 00:03:55.069 After I had told him about my decision to move 66 00:03:55.169 --> 00:03:56.169 on from the stage show. 67 00:03:56.250 --> 00:03:57.349 Courageous decision. 68 00:03:57.370 --> 00:03:59.650 Thank you. He said, the first part of your life's 69 00:03:59.710 --> 00:04:03.219 about learning. The second part's about earning. And the third 70 00:04:03.250 --> 00:04:07.060 part's about something different. It's about giving back or service, 71 00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:10.599 your spiritual awakening, all these things that come in the 72 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:13.199 third portion. And I was a little afraid of the 73 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:16.449 third portion of my life. But I'm realizing that the 74 00:04:16.470 --> 00:04:20.589 third portion is like rich and exciting. And how did 75 00:04:20.629 --> 00:04:24.029 you find that part of your life? Or how are 76 00:04:24.069 --> 00:04:24.769 you finding it? 77 00:04:25.310 --> 00:04:30.220 I'm finding this phase, this new rebirth, let's call it, 78 00:04:30.819 --> 00:04:37.980 in my 60s, just beautiful, joyful, alive, inspiring. And service 79 00:04:38.019 --> 00:04:40.720 is a huge part of it. And that is one 80 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:43.160 of the reasons that I wrote my book. and why 81 00:04:43.300 --> 00:04:47.730 I founded Wellco in my 50s. And I've found that 82 00:04:48.259 --> 00:04:54.670 helping others and expressing my true uniqueness and essence has 83 00:04:54.790 --> 00:04:58.269 been really liberating after having spent so much of my 84 00:04:58.310 --> 00:05:01.370 life sort of being something for somebody else. 85 00:05:01.550 --> 00:05:02.189 Oh, that's good. 86 00:05:02.209 --> 00:05:02.750 Yeah. 87 00:05:03.029 --> 00:05:03.569 Oh, that's it. 88 00:05:03.649 --> 00:05:04.839 That's the whole thing, isn't it? 89 00:05:04.850 --> 00:05:05.170 Yeah. 90 00:05:05.449 --> 00:05:09.350 You finally got to do something for yourself. Wellco, I 91 00:05:09.389 --> 00:05:11.870 want to hear about this company because I admire, first 92 00:05:11.889 --> 00:05:14.949 of all, that you started it in your 50s. People 93 00:05:14.990 --> 00:05:17.470 know you, they know you well, they think they know 94 00:05:17.490 --> 00:05:19.949 you well, but they know a part of you. To 95 00:05:20.029 --> 00:05:23.050 embark on starting a new company, how did you have 96 00:05:23.089 --> 00:05:25.750 the confidence? How did you, you know, because I'm starting 97 00:05:25.769 --> 00:05:27.990 something new. I'm like, there's so many things I don't know. 98 00:05:28.470 --> 00:05:30.569 But how did you decide that this was the right 99 00:05:30.629 --> 00:05:31.180 move for you? 100 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:34.000 It wasn't really a decision to start a company. It 101 00:05:34.060 --> 00:05:37.399 was a decision to share what I had learned along 102 00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:40.300 the way. And so When I turned 50, my body 103 00:05:40.339 --> 00:05:43.430 sent me a signal. And that was that the things 104 00:05:43.459 --> 00:05:46.750 that I'd always been doing were not working anymore. And 105 00:05:46.829 --> 00:05:52.529 I wasn't feeling vibrant, alive. My skin changed. My hair changed. 106 00:05:52.589 --> 00:05:55.589 I was putting on weight. I realized I couldn't rely 107 00:05:55.610 --> 00:05:58.329 on genetics anymore. I had to make some changes in 108 00:05:58.350 --> 00:06:00.769 my life, not only lifestyle, but the way I was 109 00:06:00.829 --> 00:06:06.009 nourishing myself, nourishing myself in my

environment, my relationships with people. 110 00:06:06.730 --> 00:06:10.560 nourishing myself, how I was speaking to myself about myself. 111 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:15.199 And as I'm going through this journey, realizing I need 112 00:06:15.220 --> 00:06:18.519 to find a solution to this phase in my life 113 00:06:18.699 --> 00:06:21.079 that may or may not have been menopause, I suppose 114 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:24.069 it was. I wasn't focusing on that at the time. 115 00:06:24.089 --> 00:06:27.009 I had to find solutions because I didn't want to 116 00:06:27.050 --> 00:06:30.410 just feel like this was the decline. I wanted a rebirth. 117 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:33.939 I wanted to find new ways of doing things and 118 00:06:33.980 --> 00:06:36.439 new ways of being in my life. And as I 119 00:06:36.500 --> 00:06:39.800 went down that road of discovery, I found that my 120 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:42.879 body was very malnourished. And I went to see a 121 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:46.709 nutritionist and a naturopath and I saw such a turnaround 122 00:06:46.949 --> 00:06:50.250 in everything. Not only my body, but in my attitude 123 00:06:50.290 --> 00:06:51.949 to life. And that was the thing that I wanted 124 00:06:51.970 --> 00:06:55.230 to change. I wanted that sense of vitality. And so 125 00:06:55.269 --> 00:06:57.329 when I experienced that, I thought to myself, there must 126 00:06:57.370 --> 00:06:59.110 be other women that must be going through this. 127 00:06:59.129 --> 00:06:59.410 Yes. 128 00:07:00.290 --> 00:07:02.970 And that's when I set about saying, okay, I'm going 129 00:07:02.990 --> 00:07:05.990 to form a business that shares the tools and the 130 00:07:06.269 --> 00:07:09.250 knowledge and the inspiration that I found along the way. 131 00:07:09.689 --> 00:07:13.990 In my 50s was recognizing the importance of or the 132 00:07:14.050 --> 00:07:17.970 connection between beauty and wellness as opposed to beauty and youth. 133 00:07:18.850 --> 00:07:21.110 And that was my 50s kind of revelation. 134 00:07:21.290 --> 00:07:24.670 Can we go back? So you were an alcoholic. Is 135 00:07:24.709 --> 00:07:25.889 that fair to say? 136 00:07:25.930 --> 00:07:26.850 Yeah, that's what you say. 137 00:07:26.930 --> 00:07:27.490 I'm Ellen. 138 00:07:27.550 --> 00:07:29.829 I'm an alcoholic. That's what you say at an AA meeting. 139 00:07:31.009 --> 00:07:34.649 I was feeling disconnected with myself, disconnected with my life. 140 00:07:34.829 --> 00:07:36.949 I wanted to find a higher purpose. I wanted to 141 00:07:37.009 --> 00:07:41.100 find a true essence within myself. When you're drinking and 142 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:44.740 you're numb to your feelings, it's very difficult to find anything, 143 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:47.939 let alone be in the present. So I think that 144 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:53.759 I was trying to fix myself emotionally and spiritually so 145 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:58.019 I didn't have to do it physically. But ultimately, in 146 00:07:58.139 --> 00:08:01.860 order to have that also rebirth, it is an emotional, physical, 147 00:08:01.899 --> 00:08:06.459 and spiritual kind of change that needs to occur in 148 00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:07.720 order to be free. 149 00:08:08.379 --> 00:08:10.420 Isn't it funny that I was thinking about when I 150 00:08:10.459 --> 00:08:12.209 was younger, and I'm sure you too, like you were 151 00:08:12.230 --> 00:08:14.029 on top of the world or so it seemed. It 152 00:08:14.089 --> 00:08:17.310 must have felt like, my gosh, I mean, we went 153 00:08:17.329 --> 00:08:19.949 through all of your accolades at the top of the show, 154 00:08:20.029 --> 00:08:22.850 including like the first supermodel to ever host SNL and 155 00:08:23.069 --> 00:08:26.060 all the other things. I mean, everyone wanted to be 156 00:08:26.180 --> 00:08:30.069 near you, just around you in your orbit. How did 157 00:08:30.129 --> 00:08:32.990 you feel yourself during that time? 158 00:08:33.009 --> 00:08:38.080 Like I was juggling, just trying to do a good job. 159 00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:43.019 I wasn't standing back and going, wow, look how amazing 160 00:08:43.100 --> 00:08:47.480 my life is. I do that today. Every day I'm going, wow, 161 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:51.820 what an extraordinary life I'm having in the simplicity of it. 162 00:08:52.940 --> 00:08:55.419 At that time, I think I was just really focused 163 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:58.419 on doing a good job and Being the best I 164 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:01.519 could in every situation and putting myself under enormous amount 165 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:05.139 of pressure in order to perform not only for myself, 166 00:09:05.220 --> 00:09:05.840 but for others. 167 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:08.070 Were you a pleaser then? 168 00:09:08.529 --> 00:09:12.269 Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. People pleaser until I became a pleaser 169 00:09:12.309 --> 00:09:14.070 of my own. Dreams. 170 00:09:14.330 --> 00:09:17.570 I feel like women listening are in that trap of 171 00:09:17.610 --> 00:09:20.129 people pleasing. Because I mean, for myself too, I don't 172 00:09:20.169 --> 00:09:23.000 think I knew what I was worth into my 50s. 173 00:09:23.690 --> 00:09:26.519 I think in every job I ever had, I was 174 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:31.259 always making less, if not half as much as my 175 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:34.960 male counterpart. And thinking that that was good enough. Good 176 00:09:34.980 --> 00:09:38.950 enough was my enough at that time. But how does 177 00:09:39.110 --> 00:09:42.679 one go from like, feeling like you want to please everyone, 178 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:44.580 just saying, now it's my turn. 179 00:09:45.059 --> 00:09:48.220 I think it's a cyclical thing. We go through phases. 180 00:09:48.299 --> 00:09:53.690 There's puberty and then adolescence and then womanhood and motherhood 181 00:09:53.809 --> 00:09:57.710 and then wise woman, which is where we are today. 182 00:09:57.809 -->

00:10:00.419 It's a beautiful phase to be in. I felt that 183 00:10:00.460 --> 00:10:03.539 it was my, and I still do believe in nurturing. 184 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:06.639 And so I nurtured all the relationships I was in 185 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:10.259 except the relationship with myself. And it's taken a long 186 00:10:10.340 --> 00:10:16.350 time for me to incrementally weave self-nurturing habits into my 187 00:10:16.379 --> 00:10:21.340 life and I wasn't really in the situation that you 188 00:10:21.379 --> 00:10:24.820 were in because being a model, it's the opposite. We 189 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:26.159 earn twice as much as the guys. 190 00:10:27.779 --> 00:10:28.240 You go. 191 00:10:28.820 --> 00:10:31.679 So that was not, you know, but I did feel 192 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:36.039 that I owed, I had to show up and be 193 00:10:36.649 --> 00:10:40.190 amazing because I was paid to do that. And I 194 00:10:40.230 --> 00:10:42.850 didn't know what amazing was, but I gave it my 195 00:10:42.889 --> 00:10:43.370 best shot. 196 00:10:43.730 --> 00:10:46.649 How did you do all the things like please everyone 197 00:10:46.690 --> 00:10:51.879 there you had, You have, you know, life outside. How 198 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:53.419 did you work all of that? 199 00:10:54.019 --> 00:10:56.480 One day at a time. Yeah. Yeah. The kids were 200 00:10:56.519 --> 00:11:00.279 always my priority. And you know that now you see 201 00:11:00.460 --> 00:11:03.799 how the love that you feel for your children and 202 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:06.700 unconditional love that you feel for your children and the 203 00:11:06.740 --> 00:11:10.539 responsibility we have to be a wise guide for our children. 204 00:11:10.620 --> 00:11:12.539 And that doesn't mean being there 24-7 with them. Mm-mm. 205 00:11:14.029 --> 00:11:18.029 I remember leaving the boys often and I would never 206 00:11:18.110 --> 00:11:20.350 say to them, I'm so sad, mommy has to go 207 00:11:20.389 --> 00:11:23.710 away to work and this is not gonna be a 208 00:11:23.710 --> 00:11:27.519 good time for us. I always would celebrate leaving. I 209 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:30.960 would say, okay, here's the scoop. I'm going away doing 210 00:11:30.980 --> 00:11:33.379 what I love. And while I'm gone, you're gonna be 211 00:11:33.419 --> 00:11:35.620 doing lots of the things that you love. And together, 212 00:11:35.899 --> 00:11:37.799 when we come back, we're gonna share what we learned 213 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:38.659 while we were gone. 214 00:11:38.750 --> 00:11:39.320 Oh, I love it. 215 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:43.539 And so the kids had this sort of excitement anticipation 216 00:11:43.740 --> 00:11:46.419 for the time where they were going to be learning 217 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:49.759 new things without me sort of helicopter mumming above them, 218 00:11:49.779 --> 00:11:54.259 where they learned, you know, what their own boundaries were 219 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:57.799 without a parent or me particularly telling them what and 220 00:11:57.840 --> 00:11:58.639 how to do things. 221 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:01.580 Who taught you how to be a mother? Life? 222 00:12:02.899 --> 00:12:05.860 Well, I mean, my mother was a very young mother. 223 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:08.980 She was 17 when she became pregnant. She was 18 224 00:12:08.980 --> 00:12:10.620 when she had me. She had three kids by the 225 00:12:10.659 --> 00:12:13.659 time she was 22. Wow. She had her hands full. 226 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:17.440 There was a whole bunch of barely coping, I think, 227 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:19.840 with so many kids. Well, not so many kids, but 228 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:24.500 being a young mom. And also my father was away working. 229 00:12:25.100 --> 00:12:27.559 My mother helped my father in his work. So she 230 00:12:27.620 --> 00:12:31.419 had her hands full. And I learned that multitasking doesn't 231 00:12:31.460 --> 00:12:36.799 really work with kids or life in general. You know, 232 00:12:36.820 --> 00:12:40.399 we think multitasking is so brilliant. I can do this 233 00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:44.690 and I can do that. But ultimately, Focused attention is 234 00:12:44.789 --> 00:12:47.169 really where the joy and the magic is in no 235 00:12:47.190 --> 00:12:50.129 matter what we're doing. Being in the present, in the now, 236 00:12:50.169 --> 00:12:53.679 being focused exactly on what you're doing. So when I'm 237 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:57.759 with my kids, there's no phones. I'm not trying to 238 00:12:57.799 --> 00:13:00.559 do business at the same time. I'm not having a 239 00:13:00.580 --> 00:13:02.720 phone call with a friend. I'm not having a secondary 240 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:05.120 conversation with somebody else. I'm not trying to get dressed 241 00:13:05.139 --> 00:13:07.639 going for work. I'm actually just with them. 242 00:13:07.659 --> 00:13:08.710 That's so important. 243 00:13:09.049 --> 00:13:12.570 And even if it's for three minutes, that focused time 244 00:13:12.830 --> 00:13:17.610 is so valuable. And I think women feel so guilty 245 00:13:17.629 --> 00:13:23.029 that they're not spending enough time with their children when 246 00:13:23.230 --> 00:13:25.529 really it's quality, not quantity of time. 247 00:13:26.230 --> 00:13:29.909 How do they describe you as a mother, your kids? 248 00:13:30.769 --> 00:13:31.710 I don't know. 249 00:13:31.730 --> 00:13:36.110 So now they're men, right? 22 and 27. Yeah. And 250 00:13:36.690 --> 00:13:42.590 I think they have really enjoyed the celebration phase that 251 00:13:42.629 --> 00:13:45.730 I'm in at this point in my life where I 252 00:13:45.830 --> 00:13:50.820 sort of don't care so much. You know, I can 253 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:54.139 throw caution to the wind and, you know, they might 254 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:56.399 think I'm a little wackadoodle or whatever like that, but 255 00:13:56.740 --> 00:13:59.679 there's a freedom that I think they witnessed me experiencing

256 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:03.470 that freedom and the willingness to think outside the box 257 00:14:03.529 --> 00:14:07.730 and try new things and And not really be so 258 00:14:07.779 --> 00:14:11.990 concerned that everything has to be perfect. And for me, 259 00:14:12.629 --> 00:14:15.529 demonstrating that in my life gives them permission to be like. 260 00:14:15.389 --> 00:14:22.759 That as well. More with Elle McPherson after the break. 261 00:14:34.529 --> 00:14:38.389 Treacherous ring roads lie ahead on our mission to reach Nannas. 262 00:14:38.769 --> 00:14:39.129 We must. 263 00:14:39.149 --> 00:14:41.820 Go to Mackey's for black pepper and garlic McNuggets. 264 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:43.419 Navigation rerouting. 265 00:14:44.220 --> 00:14:47.039 The main mission can wait. Take a side mission to McDonald's. 266 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:51.610 Available until the 29th of September from 11am. 267 00:14:52.590 --> 00:14:56.929 The hidden hearing seven-step hearing assessment is reassuringly thorough. 268 00:14:58.470 --> 00:14:59.490 It's thorough, so. 269 00:14:59.490 --> 00:15:03.610 Background noise never steals the spotlight, letting every conversation take 270 00:15:03.649 --> 00:15:04.309 center stage. 271 00:15:04.789 --> 00:15:06.049 It's thorough, so. 272 00:15:05.970 --> 00:15:08.990 You can step back into the world with confidence. Book 273 00:15:09.009 --> 00:15:12.769 your seven-step hearing assessment at hiddenhearing.ie today. 274 00:15:13.350 --> 00:15:16.769 Running a business isn't easy, but accessing support should be. 275 00:15:17.230 --> 00:15:20.590 The National Enterprise Hub is a free service that simplifies 276 00:15:20.730 --> 00:15:24.960 access to business supports. With over 250 supports in one place, 277 00:15:25.340 --> 00:15:28.960 it's easier than ever to find grants, advice, training and more. 278 00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:32.039 And don't worry about not knowing what you need. Our 279 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:34.379 helpful team will guide you every step of the way. 280 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:39.120 Visit neh.gov.ie to learn how we can help. The National 281 00:15:39.179 --> 00:15:42.639 Enterprise Hub. Support starts here. An initiative of the Government 282 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:43.159 of Ireland. 283 00:15:49.490 --> 00:15:53.590 Do you have... Is there a guru... person, somebody who 284 00:15:53.610 --> 00:15:56.600 you look toward as like your kind of spiritual guide 285 00:15:56.649 --> 00:15:59.279 or someone who helps you along the way? 286 00:15:59.299 --> 00:16:02.720 I work with a guy called Paul Walsh, and he 287 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:04.879 wrote a book from Adams to Angels. And I talk 288 00:16:04.940 --> 00:16:07.340 about that in my book. And I've worked with him 289 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:09.600 for about 20 years on and off in all sorts 290 00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:12.360 of areas in my life. And I check in with 291 00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:16.730 him regularly. And he's been a wonderful guide

in business, 292 00:16:17.029 --> 00:16:21.149 in my own emotional, spiritual, and physical development. And I 293 00:16:22.059 --> 00:16:25.080 He's wonderful because he has an incredible sense of humor. 294 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:28.700 He takes life seriously, but not solemnly. And he's taught 295 00:16:28.740 --> 00:16:31.850 me the value of that and many other things. And 296 00:16:31.929 --> 00:16:34.669 so I urge listeners to check him out and to 297 00:16:35.370 --> 00:16:37.909 read about how he's influenced my life in my book. 298 00:16:39.929 --> 00:16:42.830 I know breast cancer is part of your journey, as 299 00:16:42.909 --> 00:16:44.909 it was part of mine. And when I was reading 300 00:16:44.990 --> 00:16:49.340 about your breast cancer journey, that sort of diagnosis hit 301 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:51.620 you out of left field. So left field. 302 00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:52.299 Right? Yeah. 303 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.000 It's like the phone call that comes and you go, 304 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:56.740 this can't be, right? I mean, how can you be 305 00:16:56.820 --> 00:16:59.500 perfectly fine on Monday? And then on Tuesday, someone tells 306 00:16:59.539 --> 00:17:01.779 you there's a wrecking ball going through you. It made 307 00:17:01.820 --> 00:17:05.380 no sense. How did you handle the initial diagnosis? Oh, gosh, 308 00:17:05.420 --> 00:17:06.069 it was a shock. 309 00:17:06.869 --> 00:17:11.210 And also, remember, I had been sober for 10 years 310 00:17:11.230 --> 00:17:17.720 or more, maybe 15 years. My lifestyle seemed quite And 311 00:17:17.980 --> 00:17:20.940 I felt like I was sporty and, you know, I 312 00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:25.109 had a healthy lifestyle. So wait a second, how me 313 00:17:25.349 --> 00:17:29.009 of all people? And then I went into sort of 314 00:17:29.450 --> 00:17:31.609 let's fix it mode. How can I fix it? Mm-hmm. 315 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:37.400 And that was a whole other sort of A-type personality 316 00:17:37.460 --> 00:17:41.369 and being absolutely rigorous in research and trying to make 317 00:17:41.380 --> 00:17:44.130 the best decision I possibly could for myself and for 318 00:17:44.170 --> 00:17:47.369 my children along the way. And it's confusing. Yeah. 319 00:17:47.730 --> 00:17:50.390 Well, the world is full of confusion. I went through 320 00:17:50.430 --> 00:17:52.630 the breast cancer journey and they kind of flippantly said, well, 321 00:17:52.809 --> 00:17:54.130 you're not going to be able to have kids. So, 322 00:17:54.170 --> 00:17:57.380 you know, like, you know, like as if it's like whatever. Anyway, 323 00:17:57.390 --> 00:18:01.190 sorry about that. And I remember after my diagnosis, I 324 00:18:01.230 --> 00:18:04.490 went to three other specialists. I had a mastectomy and 325 00:18:04.730 --> 00:18:07.309 one doctor said, you need chemo. One said, you don't 326 00:18:07.329 --> 00:18:09.650 need chemo. And one said, you can't make a mistake 327 00:18:09.710 --> 00:18:12.710 either way. And I looked at these three people. One 328 00:18:12.730 --> 00:18:14.220 person said, you'll be dead if you don't do it. 329 00:18:14.390 --> 00:18:16.049 Yep. I had a lot of that. 330 00:18:16.750 --> 00:18:18.769 I couldn't believe it. I mean, I have chills right 331 00:18:18.789 --> 00:18:22.150 now thinking about it. And I remember thinking, if I 332 00:18:22.190 --> 00:18:25.180 can put my head on the pillow and sleep, it 333 00:18:25.220 --> 00:18:28.180 wasn't in my lymph nodes. And my decision was clear. 334 00:18:29.009 --> 00:18:30.910 I went to sleep on my pillow. I did not 335 00:18:30.970 --> 00:18:34.450 do chemotherapy and it was right for me. 336 00:18:34.730 --> 00:18:35.009 Yes. 337 00:18:35.430 --> 00:18:37.279 You did what was right for you and everyone seemed 338 00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:40.859 to want to weigh in, but I totally understood everything 339 00:18:40.900 --> 00:18:41.359 you said. 340 00:18:41.539 --> 00:18:44.180 I loved that, that you had had that experience and 341 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.640 you understood because very few people have. There's been a 342 00:18:47.660 --> 00:18:51.759 lot of judgment around my decision, but I had to 343 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:55.339 live with the decision that I made, not anybody else. 344 00:18:55.579 --> 00:18:57.460 And it was right for the kind of cancer that 345 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:02.049 I had and for my character and for my body. 346 00:19:02.369 --> 00:19:05.319 I felt that very deeply, but the hardest part was 347 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:08.839 the indecision prior to making the decision. Once I made 348 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:11.799 the decision, then it was just a question of executing 349 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:16.140 the protocols and they were numerous, 110%. And that I'm 350 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:19.420 good at, you know, I am disciplined and I am 351 00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:22.559 very rigorous, you know, give me a task to do 352 00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:26.380 and I will do it. But I was very confused. 353 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:28.319 I didn't know what was the right thing to do, 354 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:30.859 and there wasn't a clear path forward. There was no 355 00:19:31.099 --> 00:19:34.119 one doctor said, if you do this, you'll be 100% okay, 356 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:36.920 whether it was chemo, whether it was radiation, whether it 357 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:40.809 was mastectomy, whether it was more natural. So you have 358 00:19:40.849 --> 00:19:45.130 to check in with yourself and listen to your heart 359 00:19:45.289 --> 00:19:48.230 because your heart will never lead you astray. It will 360 00:19:48.329 --> 00:19:49.509 know what is right for you. 361 00:19:49.529 --> 00:19:49.869 Mm-hmm. 362 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:53.980 And it's just trusting that. And that takes time to 363 00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:57.960 build a relationship with your heart, with your inner knowing, 364 00:19:58.019 --> 00:20:01.089 with your

intuition, so that you can trust it. 365 00:20:01.789 --> 00:20:02.789 How do you feel, by the way? 366 00:20:03.049 --> 00:20:07.430 Amazing. I have been, you know, no signs of cancer 367 00:20:07.450 --> 00:20:10.680 in the last eight years, seven years. So And I 368 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:14.119 keep a very, very healthy lifestyle based on the protocol 369 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:16.579 that I learned. It was such a catalyst for me. 370 00:20:16.859 --> 00:20:20.819 It was really one of the most wonderful experiences. And 371 00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:22.960 I know people might be having a knitted brow going, 372 00:20:23.009 --> 00:20:26.289 how can you say that? But it was so, I 373 00:20:26.390 --> 00:20:29.450 learned so much during this period. And a lot of 374 00:20:29.509 --> 00:20:34.750 what I learned during my diagnosis and the remedies, I've continued. 375 00:20:34.829 --> 00:20:37.690 And I have a very, very healthy, happy life and 376 00:20:37.910 --> 00:20:38.670 lifestyle now. 377 00:20:39.049 --> 00:20:41.609 So it changed a lot of how you live your life. 378 00:20:41.670 --> 00:20:46.049 How did it change you completely other than those physical things? 379 00:20:46.490 --> 00:20:49.059 Well, I vowed I would never speak badly about myself again. 380 00:20:49.710 --> 00:20:54.180 You know, like, how mean have I been to myself? 381 00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:57.160 And when I saw the incredible capacity of my body 382 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:00.940 to heal, I have such respect for it now. And 383 00:21:00.980 --> 00:21:04.339 I would never treat it or speak to it badly 384 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.079 like I have done in the past. And... And all 385 00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:11.819 the things that I thought was so important paled into 386 00:21:12.700 --> 00:21:16.539 insignificance when you are faced with the potential life and 387 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:20.220 death situation, whether it was real or not, but it was. 388 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:20.970 It puts you there. 389 00:21:21.109 --> 00:21:23.430 It was right there. And so suddenly things that I 390 00:21:23.450 --> 00:21:27.349 thought was so important became not so important. And it 391 00:21:27.690 --> 00:21:29.849 focused on what truly was important in life. 392 00:21:30.509 --> 00:21:32.369 You know, it's funny. I was diagnosed when I was 393 00:21:32.410 --> 00:21:35.839 working at Dateline and nobody ever saw me as anything 394 00:21:35.859 --> 00:21:38.700 other than hop on a plane, go to Rikers, interview 395 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:42.480 the person, you know, blah, blah, blah. And after the 396 00:21:42.539 --> 00:21:46.160 diagnosis and after the surgery, I literally woke up from 397 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:50.390 my bed, like in a start, and I got, you 398 00:21:50.470 --> 00:21:53.950 can't scare me. I was like, what am I afraid 399 00:21:54.009 --> 00:21:58.819 of now? So I went to 30 Rock. I hit 400 00:21:58.819 --> 00:22:00.859 52 on the elevator bank. I went up to where 401 00:22:00.900 --> 00:22:03.259 those guys are that I've never seen because they all 402 00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:05.519 sit up there. And I said, I don't know if 403 00:22:05.539 --> 00:22:07.660 you even know me, but let me tell you what 404 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.500 happened to me. And I went on this whole spiel. 405 00:22:09.980 --> 00:22:11.980 I go, they're starting a new hour of the Today Show. 406 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:14.720 I want that. I think I could do that. He 407 00:22:14.900 --> 00:22:17.519 was like kind of looking at me like, what? Three 408 00:22:17.539 --> 00:22:20.980 weeks later, I'm walking on 6th Avenue. My phone rings 409 00:22:21.140 --> 00:22:22.279 and they offer me the job. 410 00:22:22.460 --> 00:22:24.000 I was like, so what? 411 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:29.079 It unleashed courage and things like, what was I waiting for? 412 00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:32.490 Someone to notice me? I'm working at my desk. Are 413 00:22:32.509 --> 00:22:34.049 they going to see me? Of course not. 414 00:22:34.369 --> 00:22:37.490 I've just got chills. That's such a beautiful story. And 415 00:22:37.569 --> 00:22:41.170 that's what it does when you realize that the biggest 416 00:22:41.230 --> 00:22:45.009 fear we have is cancer and death. And so when 417 00:22:45.049 --> 00:22:49.730 you can get through those two things, nothing is a problem. 418 00:22:50.130 --> 00:22:52.460 And so if you want that job, go and ask 419 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:53.339 for that job. 420 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:53.640 Yes. 421 00:22:57.950 --> 00:23:00.170 More ahead with Elle MacPherson. Stay with us. 422 00:23:07.789 --> 00:23:11.650 Treacherous ring roads lie ahead on our mission to reach Nana's. 423 00:23:12.029 --> 00:23:12.390 We must. 424 00:23:12.410 --> 00:23:15.069 Go to Mackey's for black pepper and garlic McNuggets. 425 00:23:15.490 --> 00:23:16.670 Navigation rerouting. 426 00:23:17.470 --> 00:23:20.210 The main mission can wait. Take a side mission to McDonald's. 427 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:26.319 Available until the 29th of September from 11am. The Hidden 428 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.109 Hearing 7-Step Hearing Assessment is reassuringly thorough. 429 00:23:31.730 --> 00:23:34.710 It's thorough, so you can enjoy dinner at your favourite 430 00:23:34.769 --> 00:23:38.750 restaurant or conversation is back on the menu. It's thorough, 431 00:23:39.130 --> 00:23:41.769 so you can step back into the world with confidence. 432 00:23:42.230 --> 00:23:46.299 Book your 7-Step Hearing Assessment at hiddenhearing.ie today. 433 00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:49.960 Running a business isn't easy, but accessing support should be. 434 00:23:50.500 --> 00:23:53.839 The National Enterprise Hub is a free service that simplifies 435 00:23:53.980 --> 00:23:58.220 access to business supports. With over 250 supports in one place, 436 00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:02.200 it's easier than ever to find grants, advice, training and more. 437 00:24:02.809 --> 00:24:05.289 And

don't worry about not knowing what you need. Our 438 00:24:05.349 --> 00:24:07.650 helpful team will guide you every step of the way. 439 00:24:08.150 --> 00:24:12.390 Visit neh.gov.ie to learn how we can help. The National 440 00:24:12.450 --> 00:24:15.920 Enterprise Hub. Support starts here. An initiative of the Government 441 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:16.359 of Ireland. 442 00:24:21.019 --> 00:24:22.839 I want to talk a little bit more about Welco. 443 00:24:23.539 --> 00:24:25.720 There are things that you are putting into your body 444 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:28.990 that your body was lacking, whether through menopause or something. 445 00:24:29.670 --> 00:24:31.769 What was the depletion and what did you need? 446 00:24:32.430 --> 00:24:38.869 So Welco is a plant-based nutritional collection of powders that 447 00:24:38.910 --> 00:24:42.029 you can add to water or to milk to supplement 448 00:24:42.369 --> 00:24:46.509 your body. And we have 11 systems in our body 449 00:24:46.549 --> 00:24:50.829 that need nutrients. And especially as you go through menopause, 450 00:24:50.970 --> 00:24:57.549 we need more protein, more collagen, more vitamin C. We 451 00:24:57.609 --> 00:25:02.029 really need supplementation because our body's going through a huge 452 00:25:02.130 --> 00:25:05.910 change and we need to support it. And I wasn't 453 00:25:05.950 --> 00:25:10.039 doing that. And I didn't realize I was unwittingly sort 454 00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:15.480 of malnourished. And I had never really thought about nutrition 455 00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:22.119 as fuel for change or fuel for growth. I just 456 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:25.000 sort of thought calories in, calories out. That was what 457 00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:28.400 nutrition was for me. And it wasn't really a source 458 00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:33.329 of fuel for the body to function optimally. And if 459 00:25:33.390 --> 00:25:37.130 we are functioning, if our body's functioning well, our emotions 460 00:25:37.730 --> 00:25:43.309 and our mental capacities and our spiritual well-being becomes also 461 00:25:43.390 --> 00:25:46.809 more aligned because we're not struggling with trying to just 462 00:25:47.589 --> 00:25:51.369 get through the day, our bodies are more balanced and 463 00:25:51.529 --> 00:25:52.950 everything else comes into balance. 464 00:25:52.970 --> 00:25:57.609 What do you do with thoughts? Do you chase them away? 465 00:25:57.630 --> 00:25:59.349 Do you let them come? What do you do? 466 00:25:59.779 --> 00:26:02.299 Thoughts are just like clouds. That's the way I see them. 467 00:26:02.339 --> 00:26:07.200 They come and they go. And I remember always many 468 00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:13.579 wise philosophers and sages and wise people have said, what 469 00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:17.589 you focus on grows. So if you're focused, You know, 470 00:26:17.609 --> 00:26:19.910 for me, it's like focus on what you want in 471 00:26:19.950 --> 00:26:23.170 your life, not what you don't want. And so if 472 00:26:23.309 --> 00:26:31.450 I find myself relentlessly thinking about something that is painful, scary, worrying, 473 00:26:33.490 --> 00:26:38.240 I know that I'm creating it by obsessing about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 474 00:26:38.259 --> 00:26:41.500 Because we are the ultimate creators. Yes, yes. So when 475 00:26:41.539 --> 00:26:44.509 I catch myself doing it, I go, oh. That's interesting. 476 00:26:44.549 --> 00:26:46.829 There you go again, trying to create the future you 477 00:26:46.849 --> 00:26:50.369 don't want. Let's create the future you do want. And 478 00:26:50.430 --> 00:26:56.940 so I transmute it. I alchemize it into, I know 479 00:26:56.980 --> 00:26:58.819 today's going to go really well with Hodder. We're going 480 00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:02.059 to have a great conversation. And what a joy to 481 00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:04.680 be asked to be on your show rather than going, 482 00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:06.529 oh gosh, what if I can't answer the questions? 483 00:27:06.549 --> 00:27:07.250 Yeah, I see. 484 00:27:07.329 --> 00:27:11.730 What if I sound stupid? So I just, I'm constantly 485 00:27:11.950 --> 00:27:15.579 diverting my thoughts. And also the other thing is that 486 00:27:15.619 --> 00:27:18.680 we're not our thoughts. They're not reality. They're just passing. 487 00:27:19.420 --> 00:27:20.819 So don't get attached to them. 488 00:27:21.579 --> 00:27:23.420 A friend of mine was trying to lose weight and 489 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:24.559 she kept saying, I got to lose weight. I got 490 00:27:24.579 --> 00:27:26.880 to lose weight. I got to lose weight. And she 491 00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:30.230 said that somebody said to her something similar. And she goes, 492 00:27:30.730 --> 00:27:33.470 I'm going to get healthy. It's like, what are you getting? 493 00:27:33.549 --> 00:27:36.069 Not what are you losing? It's like skiing and saying, 494 00:27:36.089 --> 00:27:37.269 I hope I don't fall. I hope I don't fall. 495 00:27:37.289 --> 00:27:40.500 It's like, I hope I glide. I hope I glide. 496 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.680 Or even put it into the present. I am getting healthy. 497 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:47.839 I am choosing to make healthy choices in my life. Yes. 498 00:27:48.369 --> 00:27:49.950 I am gliding through the snow. 499 00:27:49.970 --> 00:27:52.009 Yes, look at me. I'm doing it. 500 00:27:52.170 --> 00:27:52.529 Yeah. 501 00:27:52.730 --> 00:27:54.730 It is once you get that mindset going. 502 00:27:54.809 --> 00:27:57.630 And bringing it into the present, not as a wish 503 00:27:57.690 --> 00:27:58.829 or a dream or a hope. 504 00:27:59.210 --> 00:28:01.619 Ah, like it's happening right now. It's happening right now. 505 00:28:01.630 --> 00:28:02.380 Yeah. 506 00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:06.240 Is this your favorite decade? Oh, by far. Is it really? 507 00:28:06.259 --> 00:28:09.490 Yeah, it really is. I was, I mean- I was 508 00:28:09.730 --> 00:28:11.609 speaking with someone the other day and I

was saying, 509 00:28:11.630 --> 00:28:14.059 you know, I saw pictures of me, you know, when 510 00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:16.559 I was in my 20s and 30s, when I didn't 511 00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:22.240 appreciate myself. And I look and I think, I was 512 00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:28.009 a bombshell. I was so gorgeous. But I didn't realize 513 00:28:28.089 --> 00:28:31.349 it at the time. I just felt awkward and inadequate 514 00:28:31.509 --> 00:28:35.589 and out of place and inexperienced. And today, I feel... 515 00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:46.390 so alive and vibrant and excited by life that I'm 516 00:28:46.430 --> 00:28:50.009 not focused on my skin texture necessarily. I'm focused on 517 00:28:50.470 --> 00:28:53.410 the energy I feel and that I can give and 518 00:28:53.509 --> 00:28:57.390 share with other people. And it's way more rewarding, let 519 00:28:57.410 --> 00:29:00.690 me tell you, than looking at old photographs of myself. 520 00:29:01.170 --> 00:29:03.369 It's funny. I'm sure a lot of women listening will, 521 00:29:03.579 --> 00:29:06.880 because we all in some way look back to the 522 00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:09.180 days that we thought, oh gosh, you know, I'm wearing 523 00:29:09.220 --> 00:29:11.880 two sweatshirts thinking that I'm heavy and I look and 524 00:29:11.900 --> 00:29:13.660 I'm like, oh my God, I was skinny then. I 525 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.019 was worried about it. But do you think that you're 526 00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:18.039 in that number with the rest of us who felt 527 00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.289 that way about their bodies, even a supermodel, even you? 528 00:29:21.509 --> 00:29:24.230 Absolutely. You know, there have been so many times that I, 529 00:29:24.349 --> 00:29:26.710 and now what I do is I remember when I 530 00:29:26.769 --> 00:29:28.829 see something, even I saw something the other day, I 531 00:29:28.829 --> 00:29:31.930 was like, man, I'm really looking 61 at the moment. 532 00:29:33.250 --> 00:29:35.859 I said to myself, you know, when I'm 65, I'm 533 00:29:35.900 --> 00:29:37.809 going to be looking at those pictures when I was 534 00:29:37.809 --> 00:29:39.589 61 and going, I looked pretty good back then. 535 00:29:39.630 --> 00:29:39.910 I looked hot. 536 00:29:40.829 --> 00:29:45.910 It's to remind ourselves that, you know, there's always phases 537 00:29:45.970 --> 00:29:50.049 of our life where we can be our most beautiful 538 00:29:50.230 --> 00:29:52.910 if we choose to see it that way. And that's 539 00:29:52.930 --> 00:29:54.150 what I'm choosing to do today. 540 00:29:54.549 --> 00:29:58.130 When you give talks to women, I was just sitting 541 00:29:58.170 --> 00:29:59.650 here thinking, God, I would love to, I mean, I 542 00:29:59.670 --> 00:30:02.950 feel like I'm obviously in one, but when you're giving, 543 00:30:02.970 --> 00:30:05.509 I don't know, a commencement address or speaking to women 544 00:30:05.589 --> 00:30:08.450 or whatever, what's the, what do you try, what's the 545 00:30:08.470 --> 00:30:10.549 thing you try to impart upon people? 546 00:30:10.569 --> 00:30:16.619 That's such a good question. I encourage, I wish to 547 00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:23.400 encourage and inspire people to be their unique self and 548 00:30:23.500 --> 00:30:26.039 bring their unique gifts into the world. 549 00:30:26.059 --> 00:30:26.319 Mm-hmm. 550 00:30:26.710 --> 00:30:29.970 And to trust themselves and to see the beauty within 551 00:30:30.029 --> 00:30:32.970 themselves and bring that into the world because the world 552 00:30:33.029 --> 00:30:37.769 needs that. We need all the diversity we can get 553 00:30:38.650 --> 00:30:45.980 and all the open-hearted, open-minded people we can get. And 554 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:48.460 I try to inspire people to, well, I choose to 555 00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:51.279 inspire people to find that within themselves and to bring 556 00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:52.920 it forward and to trust it. Mm-hmm. 557 00:30:53.900 --> 00:30:56.240 You were talking about life and you sometimes see it 558 00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:58.819 in decades, which I thought was interesting. And I was 559 00:30:58.859 --> 00:31:03.430 thinking the same because my 50s was where I got 560 00:31:03.470 --> 00:31:06.769 my kids and figured out my relationship status and all 561 00:31:06.809 --> 00:31:09.609 those kinds of things. And my 60s, I had this 562 00:31:09.769 --> 00:31:14.750 whole kind of repotting thing. And I remember when I 563 00:31:15.470 --> 00:31:18.380 was working here and it was my 60th birthday and 564 00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:19.339 they threw a big party. 565 00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:19.700 Yeah. 566 00:31:20.180 --> 00:31:22.500 And I was on the plaza and I remember Elle 567 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:25.579 with all clarity in the world, feeling like I was 568 00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:27.359 on top of the wave. 569 00:31:27.700 --> 00:31:27.980 Yeah. 570 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:34.059 And this was the top. Like, I knew it. I 571 00:31:34.180 --> 00:31:38.029 cried during that party because I knew it. I knew 572 00:31:38.089 --> 00:31:39.710 this is as good as it gets. I'm not, I 573 00:31:39.730 --> 00:31:42.589 wasn't like, but maybe next year, this was the, you know, 574 00:31:42.609 --> 00:31:45.230 when you're at the mountaintop and then you also know 575 00:31:45.250 --> 00:31:48.430 that it's time for something else. So I was kind of, 576 00:31:48.769 --> 00:31:51.269 I was celebrating and mourning. Like I could feel both 577 00:31:51.329 --> 00:31:55.259 things happening. And I started, Maria said to me, you're repotting. 578 00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:58.220 You're pulling yourself up by the roots. You're scared. Of 579 00:31:58.259 --> 00:32:00.599 course you're scared. And I said, I wonder if I 580 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:01.960 could do it. And she said, let me tell you 581 00:32:01.980 --> 00:32:04.930 about your history of repotting. I said, tell me. She goes, 582 00:32:04.950 --> 00:32:06.990 you've

done it a million times. You moved from city 583 00:32:07.029 --> 00:32:11.099 to city. You repotted into motherhood in your 50s. You've 584 00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:13.859 repotted into and out of relationships. Don't tell me you 585 00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:14.460 can't do it. 586 00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:15.119 You've done it. 587 00:32:15.700 --> 00:32:18.759 This is just a big one in this moment. So 588 00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:22.170 my 60s feels like a whole repotting era for me. 589 00:32:22.180 --> 00:32:23.930 I don't know what my 60s is going to hold, 590 00:32:23.970 --> 00:32:26.549 but I think it's in that lane. When you think 591 00:32:26.589 --> 00:32:30.630 about your 60s, how do you see this decade or 592 00:32:30.690 --> 00:32:33.089 how do you hope to see it unfold as you go? 593 00:32:33.109 --> 00:32:38.190 Yeah, it's a continual rebirth. I'm discovering parts of myself 594 00:32:38.670 --> 00:32:42.769 that I... I didn't know existed or didn't choose to 595 00:32:42.809 --> 00:32:49.869 see in the past. I feel incredibly free. I love 596 00:32:51.269 --> 00:32:55.829 inadvertently sort of being in this place where I'm doing 597 00:32:56.029 --> 00:33:00.630 way more podcasts. I'm openly sharing about things that I 598 00:33:01.029 --> 00:33:03.309 never really shared about before because I didn't think they 599 00:33:03.349 --> 00:33:06.529 were valuable or meaningful or had any purpose to them 600 00:33:06.630 --> 00:33:09.880 or they were too personal or you know, my job 601 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:12.700 was just to look good and not to really speak 602 00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:16.900 about anything, you know, create strong businesses for people or myself. 603 00:33:18.299 --> 00:33:22.400 And so these years for me, well, I'm 60, it's 604 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:28.380 only been a year. But it's been amazing because I 605 00:33:28.420 --> 00:33:33.230 launched my book. I am in a loving relationship. I've 606 00:33:33.250 --> 00:33:35.390 been in a loving relationship for the last few years, 607 00:33:35.470 --> 00:33:38.730 but Every day is like a rebirth. My children are 608 00:33:38.849 --> 00:33:44.000 out of the home. My son graduates from university in 609 00:33:44.059 --> 00:33:46.460 May and my other son is working. They both have 610 00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:51.970 their own apartments. And I feel free to explore all 611 00:33:51.990 --> 00:33:55.420 the things that I never knew I could do. And 612 00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:59.130 I'll tell you a funny story. So I got a 613 00:33:59.150 --> 00:34:03.670 call the other day from, oh, I probably can't say 614 00:34:03.710 --> 00:34:05.880 it because it might come out before. I have to 615 00:34:05.890 --> 00:34:07.680 keep it a secret. But I did get a call 616 00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:12.179 to do a TV show doing something that I don't do. Okay. 617 00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:13.320 I already like it. 618 00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:14.659 And it's really out of. 619 00:34:14.659 --> 00:34:17.989 My comfort zone. And I just went, I'll give it 620 00:34:18.030 --> 00:34:20.809 a go. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And my kids laughed at me. 621 00:34:20.849 --> 00:34:22.929 It was like, mom, you can't do that. And I'm like, 622 00:34:23.070 --> 00:34:23.489 watch me. 623 00:34:23.789 --> 00:34:24.340 I'm doing it. 624 00:34:24.369 --> 00:34:27.369 Yeah. And just for fun, you know, for the joy 625 00:34:27.469 --> 00:34:29.190 of doing it because it moved my heart. 626 00:34:29.269 --> 00:34:30.550 I love that. I love that. 627 00:34:30.590 --> 00:34:34.550 And so I love being that woman that can have 628 00:34:34.570 --> 00:34:37.409 a laugh about life, realize that life is not laughing 629 00:34:37.590 --> 00:34:41.400 at me, that I'm laughing with life. And I love 630 00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:44.539 being the woman that can, as I said before, take 631 00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:46.559 life seriously, but not solemnly. 632 00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:49.360 And also, I think what you said that you're in 633 00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:54.250 a loving relationship, I think the idea of loving again 634 00:34:55.630 --> 00:34:59.050 is for many women who are listening, especially women of 635 00:34:59.170 --> 00:35:01.429 our age, because I've thought about it too. It's like, 636 00:35:02.090 --> 00:35:04.820 is that chapter still available to me? 637 00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:04.909 Yes. 638 00:35:05.019 --> 00:35:05.460 You think? 639 00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:06.659 Yes. Absolutely. 640 00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:11.219 But how does, after you've been through things in life, 641 00:35:11.260 --> 00:35:14.960 sometimes you're thinking, My life feels rich and full. Is 642 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:18.699 there room? How much room do I have? Should I 643 00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:22.969 make more room? What's your advice when it comes to 644 00:35:23.070 --> 00:35:24.409 dating at this stage? 645 00:35:25.130 --> 00:35:27.329 Well, you're in your head if you're trying to put 646 00:35:27.349 --> 00:35:29.329 it into some sort of equation of time. 647 00:35:29.369 --> 00:35:30.210 Yeah, forget that. 648 00:35:30.730 --> 00:35:34.989 What it is, is I'm feeling so open-hearted. And if 649 00:35:35.030 --> 00:35:37.409 there's somebody there that wants to share in my joy, 650 00:35:38.420 --> 00:35:40.019 And wants to bring joy. Yeah. 651 00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:41.219 Bring it on. 652 00:35:41.260 --> 00:35:41.550 Bring it on. 653 00:35:41.579 --> 00:35:44.619 Because that is what, you know, it doesn't mean that 654 00:35:44.659 --> 00:35:46.909 the only way to enjoy life is to be with somebody. 655 00:35:47.010 --> 00:35:49.909 In fact, I met my partner when both of us 656 00:35:50.050 --> 00:35:55.429 were absolutely sovereign in our autonomy. We were having a 657 00:35:55.469 --> 00:36:01.889 relationship with ourselves independently with God. And there was absolutely 658 00:36:01.949 --> 00:36:05.889 no need for a you complete me type of scenario 659 00:36:05.969 -->

00:36:08.550 because we were just working on our stuff and really 660 00:36:08.610 --> 00:36:11.610 enjoying it. And then when you meet two people who 661 00:36:11.650 --> 00:36:15.070 are on a similar frequency that have done the work 662 00:36:15.110 --> 00:36:21.579 within themselves and feel complete, the complete masculine, the complete 663 00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:26.019 feminine within themselves, and you meet each other where it's 664 00:36:26.099 --> 00:36:29.159 not a question of I needed him and he needed me, 665 00:36:29.179 --> 00:36:34.050 but you meet On a soul level, there is nothing 666 00:36:34.110 --> 00:36:36.840 more beautiful than that. And we don't need each other. Look, 667 00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:39.980 we're not creating a family together. We're not creating a 668 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:43.320 business together. Our parents are not suggesting it's a good time. 669 00:36:43.340 --> 00:36:47.530 I'm not procreating years. So it's like we're purely together 670 00:36:47.550 --> 00:36:51.900 because we enjoy each other's company. And we share everything. 671 00:36:52.179 --> 00:36:54.860 How would you describe the love? You've had different loves 672 00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:56.400 in your life, but how would you describe it? 673 00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:58.510 The greatest love of my life, other than my children 674 00:36:58.670 --> 00:37:04.349 and alongside my children, because it is unconditional. And I 675 00:37:04.389 --> 00:37:07.510 learned about unconditional love with my children, and I know 676 00:37:07.550 --> 00:37:10.800 you know what that feels like, because nothing feels like 677 00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:15.199 the love that you have for your children. And so 678 00:37:15.260 --> 00:37:19.469 there is complete... Allowance, allow him to be who he is, 679 00:37:19.570 --> 00:37:24.750 allow me to be who I am. Kindness, patience, non-judgment. 680 00:37:25.909 --> 00:37:29.280 It's so freeing to be in a relationship like that. 681 00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:32.079 But I couldn't be there unless I'd done the work 682 00:37:32.139 --> 00:37:38.369 on myself. And it's worth it. Love is always worth it. Yes. 683 00:37:38.389 --> 00:37:41.829 God, I feel so good. I feel really good. That's 684 00:37:41.849 --> 00:37:44.150 been the one little corner of my life that I've 685 00:37:44.269 --> 00:37:46.409 thought a lot about recently. And I said, I feel 686 00:37:46.429 --> 00:37:50.880 like my buckets are filling up, but not that one. 687 00:37:50.900 --> 00:37:53.300 No, I really believe just because of the place you're in, 688 00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:56.119 you're going to meet somebody and they're just going to 689 00:37:56.139 --> 00:37:57.699 come into your life and it's going to fit like 690 00:37:57.719 --> 00:37:59.900 a glove. And you're going to go, wow, to think 691 00:37:59.980 --> 00:38:01.980 I was scared of this, like to think I was 692 00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:04.280 scared of going up to the 52nd floor and asking 693 00:38:04.300 --> 00:38:06.360 the guys for the job. to think I was scared 694 00:38:06.579 --> 00:38:09.030 that I might die of cancer. And you'll say, I 695 00:38:09.090 --> 00:38:11.570 was scared of love. I didn't think I had place 696 00:38:11.610 --> 00:38:15.409 for love. I wasn't going to find the right love person, 697 00:38:15.469 --> 00:38:18.849 love match. I'm going to find it. Universe is going 698 00:38:18.889 --> 00:38:22.269 to send you such an incredible soul that is going 699 00:38:22.349 --> 00:38:24.849 to be with you and walk with you on this 700 00:38:24.909 --> 00:38:27.289 journey for as long or as little as you want. 701 00:38:27.469 --> 00:38:28.889 And it is going to be so fulfilling. 702 00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:34.849 That is so beautiful. God, I loved our conversation. Okay. Um, 703 00:38:35.570 --> 00:38:39.550 So let me, I usually end our conversations with this question. 704 00:38:40.230 --> 00:38:43.849 So this podcast is called Making Space. So if you 705 00:38:43.869 --> 00:38:46.250 had a day that was only for you, there were 706 00:38:46.269 --> 00:38:48.449 no obligations. You could do whatever you want. You could 707 00:38:48.469 --> 00:38:49.690 fill it the way you want. You could wake up 708 00:38:49.730 --> 00:38:51.329 when you want. You could do nothing all day, stay 709 00:38:51.349 --> 00:38:53.369 in your pajamas or whatever and end the day the 710 00:38:53.389 --> 00:38:55.690 way you liked it. How would you, how would you 711 00:38:55.710 --> 00:38:56.289 fill that day? 712 00:38:57.420 --> 00:39:00.260 I believe every day is like that for me. You know, 713 00:39:00.300 --> 00:39:03.239 I really live through my heart every day and I 714 00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:06.690 never feel that I have obligations or even though I 715 00:39:06.730 --> 00:39:08.889 have things that I love to do, you know, whether 716 00:39:08.929 --> 00:39:11.710 it's going to work or showing up in New York 717 00:39:11.769 --> 00:39:15.110 to be with you. Every day feels like it is 718 00:39:15.250 --> 00:39:18.809 a ceremony and a celebration of life. No matter what 719 00:39:18.849 --> 00:39:22.210 I'm doing, it isn't dependent on what I'm doing. It's 720 00:39:22.250 --> 00:39:27.239 dependent on the attitude I have. And the gratitude, the 721 00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:29.929 attitude and the gratitude, like that's going to bring me 722 00:39:30.010 --> 00:39:34.139 to tears because when you feel that everything feels beautiful 723 00:39:34.659 --> 00:39:37.480 no matter what you do no matter how you spend 724 00:39:37.539 --> 00:39:41.679 it and that part about being in your heart is 725 00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:45.199 just such a joyful freeing place to be. 726 00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:49.320 My gosh that was beautiful Thank you so much. I 727 00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:50.469 really appreciate it. 728 00:39:50.530 --> 00:39:50.929 Thank you. 729 00:39:57.920 --> 00:39:59.699 Hey, guys, thank you so much for listening and for 730 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:01.780 coming on this journey with me. If you like what 731 00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:04.039 you heard, and I hope that you do, please give 732 00:40:04.179 --> 00:40:08.250 Making Space a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. 733 00:40:08.769 --> 00:40:10.630 And make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on 734 00:40:10.690 --> 00:40:14.869 Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now. Making 735 00:40:14.929 --> 00:40:17.489 Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Alison Berger and 736 00:40:17.550 --> 00:40:22.039 Alexa Kasabekia, along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer 737 00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:26.650 is Juliana Mosterilli. Our audio engineer is Katie Lau. Original 738 00:40:26.670 --> 00:40:29.829 music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of 739 00:40:29.949 --> 00:40:34.139 audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby 740 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.380 Leicht is the executive vice president of Today and Lifestyle. 741 00:40:53.420 --> 00:40:57.239 Treacherous ring roads lie ahead on our mission to reach Nannas. 742 00:40:57.639 --> 00:40:58.000 We must. 743 00:40:58.019 --> 00:41:00.670 Go to Mackey's for black pepper and garlic McNuggets. 744 00:41:01.110 --> 00:41:02.289 Navigation rerouting. 745 00:41:03.090 --> 00:41:05.909 The main mission can wait. Take a side mission to McDonald's. 746 00:41:07.469 --> 00:41:09.150 Available until the 29th of September from 11am.