บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ David Bertok

for Peter Gabriel? 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:34.560 Keyboardist, he was a keyboardist. 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:36.879 Um Larry Fast. 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:38.079 Oh, okay, yeah. 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:44.560 Larry Fast was there, so we connected finally, and I've we've known about each other because I've worked with Renaissance and Annie Haslum. 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:54.720 I did I've recorded with Annie uh many times, and um well I've recorded with her a couple times, but I opened for Renaissance back in uh uh 2009 on their 40th anniversary tour. 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:55.519 Oh, nice anyway. 00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:57.279 So yeah, I have a foot Renaissance. 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:01.439 Yeah, yeah, I have a foot in that in that whole world, you know, in that whole rock world. 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:12.160 So I wanted to have you on because you you're such a versatile composer and musician, and uh you have such an interesting, I mean I I love the music, you know. 00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:18.000 I've been listening to it on the so the hour that I spend before taping, I spend listening to the artist whoever I'm gonna talk to. 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:25.759 Oh, nice the music, and you know, and I take notes and I I I prep and and uh I was loving it, I was really enjoying it. 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:28.079 It was so soothing and calming. 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:28.879 Oh, thank you. 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:29.839 This is great. 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:32.079 Yes, you know, this is totally up my alley. 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:36.720 So yeah, thanks to your uh publicist for connecting us to Impact 24. 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:38.959 They send me a lot of great talent over here to the show. 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:42.800 Yeah, they're also and um yeah, it's um it's a beautiful fall day here in New York. 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:44.800 What's the weather like in LA and what are the vibes? 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:46.639 Uh it's it's surprisingly warm. 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:51.920 I mean, you know, sometimes in November you get um a little bit of the cool air already. 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:58.879 Um we're closer to the water, not not directly at the water, but we get a good breeze here in the South Bay. 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:00.000 So I like that. 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:01.920 Um what's the vibe? 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:23.519 Well, I mean, we're in California, I mean we we don't want to get into politics, but I think you know, people are still kind of both reeling here from like the the election, obviously, and as German or Germans, you know, there's stuff going on in Germany too, so everyone's a little bit like, oh, what's we should point this out. 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:48.639 So yeah, uh, yesterday was an election, uh, Trump won and uh in a landslide victory, and uh in Germany at the same time on the same day, the uh the Ampel Coalition, the the coalition of the of the Social Democrats, the Green Party, and the FDP, the free democrats. 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:59.279

So, you know, Germany is not a republic, we're a republic here, so we have a binary election system, more or less, um, and balance and and uh uh division of power, which I think is great. 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:10.240 And uh in Germany there's it's a parliamentary system, and the ruling coalition, because one party can't get enough votes in Germany anymore, that used to be different back in the day. 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:20.720 And uh uh now uh the the FTP got fired, uh which I think is the wrong person to fire, in my opinion, but that's just my opinion. 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:24.560 Um so now they're gonna what's uh yeah, what what's gonna happen? 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:25.600 What do you think is gonna happen? 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:29.279 We're gonna have uh uh elections, early elections in Germany, then I think. 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:30.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:44.319 I mean I read uh it's gonna be in March, but now uh some people are saying even earlier because the the opposition party doesn't want it to allow to drag on, and then you know, not gonna uh support the interim uh government. 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:46.560 So yeah, we'll have early election. 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:47.839 I mean it's not that early. 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:52.079 I mean it's like gonna be a couple months earlier than it was gonna be anyway in September. 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:58.720 But yeah, um yeah, I mean it's lots of stuff going on. 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:09.439 Um hey, you know, we uh every day is a new day, and if if you uh you nothing much is gonna change for us, I think we're gonna I'm for me anyway. 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:10.480 I'm gonna speak for myself. 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:16.079 I'm not gonna assume anything for you, but you know, I I live my life the way I want to live my life, you know. 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:19.439 So um I'm uh I'm I'm all about that. 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:20.480 So okay. 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:21.759 Well let's see. 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:22.959 Let's see what happens. 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:23.519 We never know. 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:24.399 What happens? 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:28.160 Um I think it's gonna be all it's gonna be changes. 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:28.879 Good sometimes. 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:32.799 So this is what it is, and this is what we have now, and then and there you go. 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:33.759 Moving on. 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:40.480 Um, but moving on back to you to music, I want to ask you about growing up in München and Munich. 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:53.200 Um, do you remember the first time you had this moment of oh music is is my path? 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:54.960 And how early did you know? 00:08:55.120 --> 00:09:00.799 Because I mean you're you're a composer, you know, like there what what was playing in your head? 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:18.399 It wasn't one distinct you know experience or one distinct moment, but as a teenager, I started piano at around age nine, and I went to my

piano lessons uh uh dutifully every week and didn't like my piano teacher. 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:22.399 She was Did you ask to have lessons, or were was it a family thing that you're doing? 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:35.120 My parents said, Hey, uh we think you have an ear for music, and and we got this uh piano from my grandmother, and um so I started piano and I I was doing okay. 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:41.120 I wasn't someone who was like obsessively practicing at a young age, at least that came later. 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:45.200 But I didn't like my piano teacher uh in my early teens. 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:50.159 She would hit me on the hands and say I didn't practice my Bach. 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:53.039 Yeah, it was she she was from the old school. 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:59.759 Anyway, all the speaking of Bach, I was just hooked on Abarmedish. 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:04.000 Oh what a beautiful I mean it's such a beautiful, endlessly beautiful piece. 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:05.519 That piece never gets boring. 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:19.679 And when I think about how much how many pop music chord progressions of ballads in rock music and pop music from that progression, yes, but sorry to distract. 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:22.879 So she was script with you, and and that was okay. 00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:30.480 Well, I don't know if it was okay, but what I found myself doing a lot is I would want to like listen to the records I liked. 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:34.240 So I liked rock music growing up as a teenager and film music. 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:41.120 So, you know, I would listen to my rock metal bands and like try to figure out what they are doing or playing it on a keyboard, you know. 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:45.360 So, speaking of chord progressions, that's something that I very early on loved doing. 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:46.720 Like, what is this chord? 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:47.759 What is this voicing? 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:48.639 What is this? 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:50.080 Like, I need something new. 00:10:50.159 --> 00:11:00.159 So that's why after a few years I I uh felt like the the whole rock music and metal uh genre just wasn't enough. 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:01.519 I loved progressive rock. 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:12.399 I I kind of took that from my parents because they loved Genesis and all all decades of the Genesis, not not just the um 80s, which I love by the way. 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:15.120 I love the 80s Genesis just as much as the 70s. 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:21.679 So I love the commercial phases of the bands, whether it's Genesis, Rush, or or Queen. 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:23.200 What about Peter? 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:24.639 Did you get into Peter Gabriel's stuff? 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:26.080 Oh absolutely, absolutely. 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:26.960 I love Peter. 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:28.879 I mean, I was just at the concert here. 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:32.879 Well, just it's a year ago now, but I just saw him here at the

forum. 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:36.480 Oh my god, is is I do you know Io the latest? 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:38.240 I love I love IO God. 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:41.519 I love I have goosebumps thinking about it. 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:43.759 Yeah, I mean, it took a while. 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:52.559 I mean, I know his uh previous record was uh 21 years earlier, but um and you know, such a distinct tone in his voice. 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:55.600 He there's like no one who sounds like him. 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.399 Yeah, so that was kind of my my growing up. 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:06.879 Uh, you know, I had this kind of I love progressive rock, especially with you know keyboards that were doing more than just like you know, in rock metal. 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:11.039 If you had a keyboard at all, you would have like, okay, here's one chord and you hold it. 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:14.559 So I loved that kind of keyboard at all, my goldfield. 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:15.519 I love my goldfield. 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:17.200 Oh, yeah, I love my goldfield. 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:21.200 It's so popular in uh in Germany too, Europe, and you know, oh yeah. 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:23.279 I think you and I are about maybe the same age. 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:24.320 Are you 40 something? 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:26.480 Like, I I I am 40 something. 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:28.000 I'm 40. 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.080 Holy moly, I'm 42. 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:32.080 Um okay, we're 29. 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:32.960 Anyway, moving on. 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:33.519 Okay. 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:34.159 Thank you. 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:34.559 Thank you. 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:35.200 Yeah, thank you. 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:36.799 Yeah, I'm gonna touch up my appearance. 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:40.799 David, yeah, uh Mike Oldfield. 00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:43.840 I mean, as you can see, I also uh play a little bit of guitar. 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:48.240 This is not just uh just uh uh fake background. 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:59.600 So I I had this phase where I like speaking of that piano teacher, I turned away a little bit from from piano, like oh I and my parents like insisted, no, you go to her and she's great. 00:12:59.919 --> 00:13:05.919 And I'm like, okay, well, I'll smack your your wrist, hands, or yeah, she would, yeah, yeah. 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:14.879 I mean, it's kind of like yeah, it's kind of like you know, only when I played the wrong notes, so I have to give her credit for that. 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:22.720 So it's it's not like uh it was okay only because it was my fault, it was my fault. 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:32.240 But you know, I I I had this conversation one time with with someone who said, Well, first of all, she didn't ruin your love for music at all. 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:40.559 So it's not you know, like it's and and and secondly, you know, maybe that was one of the reasons where I'm like, you know, kind of shoved that away. 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:44.000 That kind of like, oh, go practice your Bach and go practice. 00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:55.600 And by the way, I love Bach, but uh, when I was a teenager, I didn't have a connection to learn the next uh fuga and the next polyphonic piece because I didn't understand it, so I didn't know what it means. 00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:00.720 Once we speak about my album, we can talk about that because I have a polyphonic piece on there. 00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:14.399 But this is I think what's important when we speak about music education and and about understanding music that you know there's the saying you only you only hear what you know. 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:21.360 So when when you don't know what's going on in that music and there's maybe like just too much information, it's a different thing. 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:24.320 I've never heard anyone say that. 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:25.200 This is interesting. 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:26.879 You only hear what you know. 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:28.240 Can you elaborate on that? 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:29.200 I I can, yeah. 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:36.000 It's it's actually, I think, a quote from a book about music uh oral training, gehörbildung, as we call it in Germany. 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:49.519 So it means let's say you you listen to a to a jazz court, but but you're not aware that like in jazz you have four voices instead of three in a chord, right? 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:59.360 So it maybe sounds like almost to say in the voicing you were saying we're for those that don't understand or are new to this, four notes rather than three notes. 00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:00.159 Exactly. 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:10.879 So you have that extra layer, you have a seventh in each chord, and you wouldn't really know like what to listen for or for that extra layer if you didn't know that that part of information. 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:13.360 You maybe hear, oh yeah, that sounds a little bit different. 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.320 I always thought jazz is a little bit different than classical music. 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:21.840 Well, there's many aspects to it, but one of them is the different layers of harmonies, right? 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:23.440 And that goes for everything. 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:49.360 So I think once you like start having maybe like an analytical mind for it, or like analyzing music, like trying to figure out what are these people playing in different genres, and you you start kind of like mapping it out, and I think you know, on a piano it's uh easier than on a guitar because on the piano you see everything before in front of you, and you can kind of see okay, okay, this is it, this is the extra voicing, you see the exact notes, right? 00:15:50.000 --> 00:16:04.879 So I think that's the reason why you only uh uh hear what you know because if you uh can't um you know pinpoint what is that extra layer, yeah, then you don't really know what you're listening for. 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:08.879

Yeah, no, that that's uh that makes makes total sense. 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:13.600 Um all right, so let's get back to uh to what we were talking about earlier. 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:17.120 So you're you're how how old were you when you started playing piano? 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:18.399 I was nine. 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:21.279 I was uh I think in third grade, so nine. 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:23.120 Yeah, you said yeah. 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:33.039 You know, like I said in München in the city or uh in München in the city, yes, in München in the city, and um I picked up the guitar. 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:41.200 My older brother started playing guitar years later, and I'm like was secretly always like uh looking over there, like what is he doing? 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:43.679 Like, this sounds like a cool instrument too. 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:54.559 And I like kept he was taking guitar lessons, and I I was dutifully doing my piano lessons, but I would like secretly always pick up the guitar and then we went on the skiing trip with my parents. 00:16:54.639 --> 00:17:01.279 I think I was 14 or something, and I had been you know secretly like taking his guitar and trying to figure out chords. 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:16.240 So we're sitting at the skiing trip by the campfire or whatever, and and I'm like taking the guitar, and like no one had an idea I ever even picked up the guitar, and I I learned all these songs because I figured out like the basic chords, right? 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:23.839 The open chords, and and I was like accompanying song, and people were singing along, and everyone's like, We had no idea you played the guitar. 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:29.839 So that was an uh interesting kind of because you asked uh how soon did you know you want to do music? 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:35.119 And I I loved kind of that learning songs, learning something by listening. 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:40.480 So that was like my first many years, uh, and I think I I benefited from it. 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:53.359 From uh we talked about music theory from that standpoint of like figuring things out and mapping everything and like finding the the next thing, like I need some new new new language, I need some new chords. 00:17:53.440 --> 00:18:00.319 That's why I love progressive rock because you weren't like uh stylistically and harmonically so limited, right? 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:12.799 You didn't have just like okay, there's major and minor and good night, but you had like a vast array of modes and harmonies and and scales, and I I just found that fascinating. 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:18.960 Yeah, that's uh once once you get that bug, you know, you can't really get away from it. 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:22.240 I mean, I I went through a lot of changes when it came comes to music, you know. 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:50.319 I I when I discovered I every time I discovered a band that like I fell in love with, um I I kind of pursued it as like a book, and I would

read the whole thing, you know, like when I discovered Prince or when I discovered Led Zeppelin, uh you know, certain certain artists, I just I couldn't, I would, I would, I would keep listening to their records until I got bored. 00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:54.319 And with those two groups, for instance, you know, that never really happened. 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:58.559 You know, there was yeah, it's limitless, you know, the the the catalog is so strong. 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:22.480 And you know, it's interesting you say that because I I you know now as a working musician and composer and getting so much into music production, which you have to when you do film music, you go back to a record you maybe haven't heard two or three or four years, and you start hearing totally different things, you know, because you like tune your ears to like also mixing and equalizers and production. 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:45.759 And I think what you said, limitless, it's interesting when you listen to really good music catalog of an amazing artist of an amazing band, and you keep like discovering new details, and then maybe there's some like new remix or remaster, you know, like how they did with the whole Beatles catalog, and then sometimes you're like, Oh, I don't even like this better, I like the old one, or now I hear stuff I never heard before. 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:55.920 So that's so interesting to really have that kind of appreciation and and passion for music to really uh go deep, right? 00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:22.160 And I think that's maybe something that uh is disappearing a little bit because uh our music habits are uh turning into streaming, and streaming becomes this like a little bit less mindful um process of like, you know, it used to be I was just telling someone, you know, I still have like 4,000 um CDs at home, yeah. 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:44.880 And and it used to be like you buy a record, you've been waiting for months for this new record to drop from your favorite artist uh or or band, and then you put it on, you listen with headphones, and you study the whole booklet, and each time you hear you listen to it, you discover new uh layers and something newer you you kind of it opens up to you, yeah. 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:49.519 That guy, especially with progressive music where sometimes you hear something, you I don't get it. 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:57.759 I need like two or ten or twenty spins until I finally uh sorry, I was just checking the mic, so uh but we're good. 00:20:57.839 --> 00:20:58.960 That's why I made that noise just now. 00:20:59.200 --> 00:20:59.599 No worries. 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:01.519 Um so so that that that's great. 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:04.559 You know, you're bringing up a lot of really interesting subjects. 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:28.079 So when you are a film composer, you you really feel like it's necessary if you want to work in that genre and in that field to understand recording software and having and being able

to record at home and being able to uh program, being able to um use technology, current technology. 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:37.599 Absolutely, absolutely what do what do people do that don't know how to use that or how did what what do they do? 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:44.160 Well, I'm I'm sure they have there's probably two two answers to that. 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:48.640 One is like what do they do now that we have an AI app that does it for you? 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.079 But you know, up until this point you had to learn it. 00:21:52.240 --> 00:22:06.960 I mean there's no there's no way around because uh look thirty, forty, fifty years ago it was like maybe you're Great at orchestrating, and you can write a melody and you outsource the rest to your orchestrators. 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:33.039 You know, there's this uh you know, not rumor, but kind of like this this this um uh known fact that like certain composers in in there a couple decades ago in the business or so-called the humming composers, they would just hum something into uh uh you know, here's the melody, and the team of orchestrators puts it on the page, they go record it, and and it's all good. 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:41.359 You know, there are different uh approaches to it, but it has changed significantly because you can do so much with samples in your home studio. 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:46.799 You you don't need to go and uh book the Sony stage and hire a 70-piece orchestra. 00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:52.960 I mean, there's obviously different styles of and genres, and you can do so much on your computer. 00:22:53.359 --> 00:23:04.720 It sounds like on your computer, but you still have to know the software, the DAW, you still have to know plugins, sample libraries that have evolved massively. 00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:10.640 And you know, something I always push for trying to include live instruments. 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:27.839 So even if I work on a score that's very electronic, I try to bring in at least either a vocalist or one-string player or one of those guitars that you actually have to play to give it some kind of organic element because samples are developing and they're becoming really good. 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:34.640 Yeah, and uh if it's a percussive sound, but something like a string instrument, you just can't program it. 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:37.440 It's it's never never gonna sound like a real life player. 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:38.160 So yeah. 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:42.559 I mean, if it's an orchestral, that may be different, but if it's a single instrument, you know. 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:46.559 Uh by the way, DAW folks stands for digital audio workstation. 00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:48.160 I never knew that until just now. 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:48.720 Oh, okay. 00:23:48.799 --> 00:24:00.480 Yeah, so basically it's not it doesn't make any sense because we call it DAWs, or we call it the DAW with the unsharing musicians, and it's sweet, it's software, but it's actually a digital audio workstation. 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:04.000 I think of something actually that's hardware, but anyway, it's maybe it's not the greatest. 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:05.920 You would you would think that um anyway. 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:13.599 You would call it something else, but yeah, you know, so like logic or pro tools, etc., is is that kind of cube I work with. 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:15.279 You work use cubease, okay. 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:15.680 That's cool. 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:16.160 Yes. 00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:26.079 So so um so we just uh um uh what you just said, which is interesting, you know, we there's a lot of samples that you can use that sound amazing. 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:30.960 Um uh this uh a new single that I have out called The Lost Kingdom with Rachel Flowers. 00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:33.920 That's what we did at uh at uh Proxtalk. 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:35.839 Uh wrote it with Annie Haslam. 00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:42.400 We used some digital and we used some live, so we did a mixture of it in just to add texture. 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:53.279 Yes, and we had uh uh a Cretin Lyra on on the track, uh by a Greek musician that I've never met, uh called Dimitris Menexopoulos. 00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:57.200 Nice, and he he played on a couple of uh songs of mine now. 00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:04.400 My producer Marcus Dombinsky discovered him, and we've been using him on stuff because he's a beautiful musician, and he does everything remotely. 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:07.039 I've never met him, I've never even talked to the guy. 00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:16.640 Yeah, yeah, you know, we just we just communicate, and it's amazing to me how we do that as musicians sometimes, you know, like we're never not even in the same room. 00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:27.440 And and I think that uh during the pandemic, of course, it was the only way you could do it unless you had you know you made a conscious decision to say, okay, screw this, you know, uh let's work together, which I did as well with some people, yeah. 00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:42.799 Um, and but I mean we I think that do you think that this now, you know, first of all, the working remotely, which is very easy to do now, and uh AI are changing the landscape and how fast are they changing? 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:52.880 Like, do you do you run into situations where you know you you get a call for for a job and and it it falls off because they're like you know what? 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.119 No, we're gonna actually have I AI do it. 00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:58.160 I mean, this is like I'm asking a serious question, obviously. 00:25:58.400 --> 00:25:59.200 This is not no last. 00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:01.839 Yeah, no, and it is it is it is a serious question. 00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:03.039 How are we with that? 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:13.200 Those are uh two big uh subjects, and and the the AI subject is I think even bigger one than I have never had that happen so far.

00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:22.079 That you know, I work with filmmakers and clients who 90% of the time I have worked with before, right? 00:26:22.160 --> 00:27:14.640 So they are repeat clients and they are artists and they wanna do something meaningful with their film or or um TV show or whatever medium I'm working on, and so I have not had that happen, and I think one of the reasons is besides you cultivate this relationship and you let them be a part of the process and show them you know what it really means to to have a human work on it, you know, because an AI can never do that what a what a human does with a filmmaker, uh a composer in this case with a filmmaker, when they you know they they they um try to express what they are going for, they try to express what they want kind of music, and you know, our language isn't perfect, especially with describing something like music. 00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:34.079 You know, music is a universal language, and that's why you know you you work with this Greek musician and you have never met them, but you maybe don't even need to explain that much because you send them the track and you can even say add your magic, and they can you know just listen to it and get a sense for it. 00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:50.400 You know, in film there there is a lot of talking, there's a lot of communication, and I think the the filmmakers uh they are humans and they don't want some machine where they just type, hey do something emotional. 00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:59.119 I mean it's a way uh more profound uh uh conversation about like what does it mean emotional for this person or for this other person, you know. 00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:04.559 You need you need to know them, you need to know you need to have been on that journey with them, you know. 00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:08.160 This this uh film you you just mentioned, Daughter of the Sun. 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:13.119 I worked with Ryan on six films, you know, and we've known each other for 10 years. 00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:18.240 Right Ryan Ward, the director of uh Daughter of the Sun. 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:20.400 So this is the I'm working now. 00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:42.160 We're working on a sixth film together, and it has been a journey, and we've got to know each other artistically and and and musically, and um we got to know each other in the sense that uh when he expresses something with our imperfect medium, the the uh language, right? 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:48.000 He's using words to describe something that is supposed to be transformed into music. 00:28:48.319 --> 00:29:00.559 I understand him because I've known him and we worked so many times before, and it's not something so simple as you know you type it into a machine and it spits out the thing that you want. 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:08.720 I mean, the process is basically you you cannot accelerate the process because you have to get to know the human being. 00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:17.359 So that's my take on AI, and I have not had this happen, but on a larger scale, I'm sure it will it is happening already. 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:24.240 I see this in in composer forums that people say, Oh, I was about to get this job, and now they said they're just gonna use AI. 00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:36.880 And besides the many legal implications, and that would probably the explode uh now here to to talk about all of that, but you know, you you can't prevent it. 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:39.200 We cannot put the genie back into the bottle. 00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:43.279 But I think now is the time to put guardrails on. 00:29:43.440 --> 00:30:01.839 We know now that these AI companies they just swiped everything, they just fed everything into those machines without asking the right holders, without any uh regard for intellectual property, and you know it's not right crazy, you know. 00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:41.279 And and when you think back to if you when you think back to when uh this really kind of I would say started, um you mean you you can probably go as far back as the sixties and seventies when synthesizers uh came on the scene and the beginning of electronic music, you know, the beginning of you know using uh using a click track and incorporating uh electronic sounds in popular music, and then the 80s and sampling and you know rights management becoming a real issue with that, you know. 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:48.319 So and we're and we're at this all over again now, except it's going so fast that it's hard to keep track. 00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:55.359 And I think the idea of putting guardrails on sooner rather than later that makes sense, you know. 00:30:55.440 --> 00:31:06.000 You can't overdo that either because you know you have to allow for creative for people to use be to work creatively, and some people want to choose to do that, you know, they want to absolutely I agree with you. 00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:23.519 I think with the I mean it's a different it's it's a different thing if I use something as a tool or if I use something to steal and you know, look we we have AI, and if if we I use it as a tool to illustrate something, okay, okay, whatever. 00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:31.200 But if I would have hired a human being to do this, and now I just spit it into this thing, besides that, it will not have an identity. 00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:33.920 I mean, that that's a much larger point for me. 00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:50.079 Like an AI doesn't have an identity, it doesn't have an aesthetic, it has not been on a journey, so it doesn't have any possible way of doing something new because it can only do all the things that it was fed into it. 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:56.400 But us humans, we are trying to express something that hasn't been said before, that hasn't been told before. 00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:09.279 So this is my pitch for uh yeah, humans and look, AI, AI, and that's that's a much larger disc uh discussion we could have now about the dangers of AI. 00:32:09.839

--> 00:32:12.960 And I'm not someone who's like anti-progress. 00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:20.640 Uh look, when what you mentioned the 80s and and and you know, synthesizers and in the earlier already in the 60s, 70s. 00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:26.720 In the 80s, we had the drum computer, and and some people were saying, Oh, now all the drummers will be out of work, you know. 00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:34.240 And it didn't happen, they they got even more because people were like, It's awesome to have a drum computer, but how much better it is to have a real drummer? 00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:38.240 So we still have drummers, maybe some lost some work, yes. 00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:53.839 And look, you you cannot prevent uh a progress when it you know benefits people, um you know, benefits an industry, but I don't see the benefit here yet. 00:32:54.079 --> 00:33:03.359 I I I can tell, you know, for someone to like do a quick cheap mock-up of hey, mix these two styles together and then think oh cool. 00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:05.200 Using it as a tool, so to speak. 00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:08.400 It doesn't have an identity, it doesn't have distinction. 00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:19.839 And as far as I know, all the things that, for example, going back to film music, the the majority of being a film composer is not writing music but rewriting music. 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:22.079 So you write music, you get notes. 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:28.000 Either it's hey, I don't like this, write something else, or it's I like this, but can we change this? 00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:29.680 What about if we did this? 00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:43.279 Yeah, these kind of like um organic changes, or you get a new cut, you get a new cut from the filmmakers, like, hey, we entirely changed the scene, and this part that was here is now here, and so like make it work with your music. 00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:47.119 So that whole rewriting process, you know. 00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:50.319 Can AI help with that as a tool? 00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:53.519 I don't know, maybe it can, but I haven't seen it yet. 00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:59.920 But I think the the whole creative spark and the creative identity coming up with a new aesthetic. 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:09.360 You know, when I work on a film, I'm trying to find the tone of the film, I'm experimenting with instruments, I'm trying different textures, all of these things. 00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:16.639 That's a it's a process that I think cannot be linear as in I type something in, and I wouldn't even want it to be. 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:31.519 You know, I'm surprised sometimes that and even though it might sound elitist, but I'm surprised sometimes that people who like use MIDI packs, like oh, I got here all the chord progressions, like finding it. 00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:33.599 Explain what MIDI explain what MIDI packs are. 00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:37.599 Well, MIDI packs are like these MIDI files that like you can like buy. 00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:42.079 Apparently, people buy that to uh and I'm sure there's use for it. 00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:54.320 And well, it's it's actually uh uh they can be samples, but it's oftentimes even like a MIDI pack that has like pre-made core progression, like oh, I know I don't have to come up with the core progression myself. 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:57.119 I'm like, this is the whole fun of making music. 00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:29.519 You come up with your own thing, like what and to the larger point about the AI, all of it is like, oh, I just want to be able to click here and get uh you know, the the implication is for uh for the big companies to to make maybe a big profit of something that's you know where you would have hired a human creative for it, and we're losing so much so much creativity and identity and and uh human depth if we do that, if we go on that road and we're like cool, let's just have a machine that does everything for us. 00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:32.079 Well, why are we humans then, you know? 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:41.039 So anyway, yeah, no, you're making some great points, and I think we tend to, you know, like you were saying about talking about the drum machine and the panic drummers. 00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:42.960 Oh no, but we tend to panic, right? 00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:47.760 We tend to like go, oh no, this is uh change is uh change is is negative. 00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:50.159 I I always think and I don't like change, you know. 00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:59.440 I love when things just stay the same and there's no you know no nobody I'm a cancer, you know, by uh uh my my star sign, like yes, my my sign apparently doesn't like change. 00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:09.199 I don't, but I think change is good, you know, because it it it does bring on uh not just it you don't know what it's gonna bring on, it can be positives. 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:11.199 So um it it can, yeah. 00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:17.280 It can and and and most likely it will if we pursue that, you know. 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:24.400 If you if nothing you can if if you can only think negatively about something, then maybe it's your problem. 00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:30.800 Maybe you need to have a look at your thinking and can and change your thinking about something, you know. 00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:32.880 Like you were saying, why would I want that? 00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:34.960 Why would I want a machine to do that work for me? 00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:37.840 That's the fun, that's half the fun for me, you know. 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:43.599 So that kind of thinking, yes, but that kind of thinking, you you can learn that kind of thinking for you. 00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.800 It may it may come natural, for me it does as well. 00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:58.079 But I think you can, you know, I work with talent as well, and I I try to get them to think for themselves, A, you know, which is also a lost art, right? 00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:01.440 You know, just following, you know, what someone

else says, you know. 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:03.519 I mean, in politics we see this all the time. 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:11.519 It's like, no, no, if I'm gonna hire someone, I'm doing that, um, you know, because I bel I like what they have to offer. 00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:15.679 But you know, you're not you're not in charge, you're not in control of me. 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:17.519 I am, I am, okay. 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:18.800 I make those choices. 00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:29.920 If I want to write a song about about um uh you know, if I want to write a rap song, it may be shit, but I'm still gonna try doing it if I if I want to do it, if I feel like doing it. 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:41.039 So so you know the the staying uh keeping an open mind is and that means also that it can come along and something in uh you know uh in AI can be useful, like you were saying. 00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:44.159 So I think there's gonna be a balance just like there was with drum machines. 00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:46.000 You know, some people like to use them, some people don't. 00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:47.039 Look, absolutely. 00:37:47.119 --> 00:38:02.320 I think I I I don't want to dismiss that it can be a useful tool, and I kind of to the point of what you just said, as long as people just keep expressing themselves, and you know, part of creativity is trying and failing, and this is maybe not always the fun part, but I think it is. 00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:04.880 Sometimes the best things happen from accidents, you know. 00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:11.360 Sometimes I accidentally shift something in my DAW or door somewhere in the wrong spot. 00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:13.280 I'm like, hey, this is much better. 00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:23.119 So you know, yeah, and AI probably won't do uh mistakes on purpose, or maybe they will later program and update, like hey, do something uh unexpected. 00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:40.000 But I think I I liked your point about hey, if I want to do a rap song, which I personally won't do because I I I I I can't do it, but hey, if someone wants to do it, that that's great, let them do it and let them try to express themselves, and that's how we learn anything, you know. 00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:42.639 Right, right. 00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:59.519 Okay, but you know, uh I think, and again, this is one of the those dangers, but I think this these young kids, the this young generation that grows up, unfortunately, I think, because I grew up with music, and pu music was so precious. 00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:09.199 Like I said, you go and buy a record, you listen to it exclusively for weeks and weeks, and you develop a an in-depth relationship with it, right? 00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:12.000 And unfortunately, and I'm I'm streaming too. 00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:19.760 I we we have uh uh in our household three different streaming subscriptions for for a variety of reasons, but uh for music. 00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:23.119 But I stream 99% of the time. 00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:31.519 I still have my CDs, I have my record collection, I sometimes put on a vinyl, but 99% of the time I stream music. 00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:32.559 So I'm not saying streaming. 00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:38.559 I personally use title uh because I high resolution audio. 00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:53.280 Yeah, and I just stuck with it since and they pay a little bit more to the artists, and in and that you you mentioned Dead Mouse earlier and worked on a project with uh Dead Mouse is a DJ, so for people that don't know who Dead Mouse is, he's yeah, he's quite known. 00:39:53.760 --> 00:40:05.039 It's not also not my world electronic um uh dance music at all, but I was brought in because of my uh expertise in orchestral music, and he did this one orchestral record. 00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:30.159 But anyway, we we worked on this thing, and I think it was financed by title, uh, and then they gave us a free subscription for like I think three months or something, and I'm like, I like this platform, and uh yeah, but my wife has uh Spotify for for her work, and I also have Apple Music, and we use that mostly for the kids because did you know in Apple Music you can turn on the lyrics and it shows you those lyrics anyway? 00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:36.239 Yeah, so what I'm trying to say is it's convenient, that's great. 00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:49.920 AI will do a lot of things maybe more conveniently us, but I think if we have a button for everything and we don't need to do anything ourselves anymore, it will not only make us stupid, but also lose our agency. 00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:53.119 And this is kind of to my my larger point. 00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:54.880 I don't think that's going to happen. 00:40:54.960 --> 00:41:04.480 I I think uh there will be it will be some people will go that route because but I don't think they they might not have the necessary necessary talent anyway. 00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:06.239 Yeah, nothing personal. 00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:07.039 Sure, sure. 00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:22.159 Uh but uh you know uh I think most uh you know if you if you're uh if you are a creative, you want to keep making stuff up, and I've always that's that's been the greatest uh joy in my life, you know, to to create. 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:24.159 Yes, saying stay in that space. 00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:29.039 Speaking of creation, so you have a new album that just came out called One. 00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:31.360 Now, why didn't you just call it two? 00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:36.320 Uh very good question, and there's two two answers to it. 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:38.000 See how I did that. 00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:44.000 On this album called One, there's a trilogy of piano pieces um where I switch the letters. 00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:53.920 So the first one is called Eno, E-N-O, like the famous music producer who worked with Peter Gabriel and Eno and Brian Eno, yeah. 00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:59.199 Second one is Eon, you know, like an Eon, like a long period of very long

period of time. 00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:02.000 And the third one is Neo, like new. 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:07.440 Anyway, and then when I was looking at that, and I had that trilogy first, I didn't know what the album title. 00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:11.280 I have a bunch of other uh tracks uh or pieces on the album. 00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:12.719 I was thinking about the title. 00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:13.760 I'm like, what else? 00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:20.079 There's one more thing you can do with this slip switching the letters, and the result is one O N E. 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:31.599 I'm like, that's amazing, and one is also a good title because it's my first uh neoclassical album that's came out where I didn't work to picture, you know. 00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:34.480 Uh I didn't have a film that I scored. 00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:50.880 Uh, I mean, I've released music with uh my bands uh obviously over the years, but I've never released an album of neoclassical music that's just for the purse of you know the music for the music and not serving a picture. 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:57.920 Yeah, I'm totally you're gonna have to write a song called Toe for your next uh album if you I shall do that, yes. 00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:00.320 Um no, that's great. 00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:05.280 You know, I I I started listening to it, and there was a song there called Fontana dell'anima. 00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:11.679 All right, a gorgeous piece, and uh you got nominated for something for that. 00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:13.920 So uh wait it just came in. 00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:16.000 It's polyphonic, right? 00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:18.480 It just came in the mail, so let me hold it up here. 00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:19.360 Look at that. 00:43:19.599 --> 00:43:20.880 You got a Hollywood uh music award? 00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:22.559 Hollywood Indi Independent Music. 00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:24.239 Independent music awards, yeah. 00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:26.559 So congrats, congrats. 00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:28.800 Okay, they even gave you a like nice shiny thing. 00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:30.400 That's the the nice plaque, yeah. 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:31.360 It's not nice to have a lot of it. 00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:32.960 Did they make you pay for it? 00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:41.440 Uh I don't I don't really there might have been uh uh some some small fee, but yeah, I have it's so nice and shiny, so like come on. 00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:46.719 I know I have my Grammy plaque on the wall, and when they offered it to us, they were like, You're gonna have to play, you're gonna have to pay for it. 00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:47.760 I was like, What? 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:52.320 You mean what so but hey, that's that's how it goes. 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:55.199 So uh just a little trade secret there, everybody. 00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:58.480 Yeah, cost money. 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:00.559 Yeah. 00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:02.559 Nothing is free in this business. 00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:03.440 Nothing is free.

00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:07.280 Yeah, the music is free, right? 00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:07.519 Yeah. 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:09.119 Like just download it on Appster. 00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:09.920 Exactly. 00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:21.119 We keep paying, but uh, you know, it here and there and and you know, knock on wood, you know, it's great to get paid for doing what you love and being a creative. 00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:37.760 So so tell tell me a little bit about the experience of of moving away from having visual inspiration and having so how many of these pieces had you written already and and uh why did you choose them? 00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:39.920 Like what what made you want to do this? 00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:45.360 Um so some of these pieces uh I had for a couple of years, you know. 00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:52.159 I I don't only write two picture, I all my life I've been creating just because of creating. 00:44:52.400 --> 00:45:06.400 And um, you know, sometimes you write something and you know you're not working on a film, you're like, hey, I I love this piece, I'm gonna uh pursue working on it, or I'm gonna hopefully record it one day with with live musicians. 00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:11.440 So some were uh when I got this idea, okay, now it's time to do this album. 00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:28.320 It was in the pandemic, and I was uh briefly in Germany, and I got this uh grant from the German PRO performing rights organization GEMA that they represent me in Europe um and Ascape does in the rest of the world. 00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:35.280 And GEMA gave me this um little grant to do this album and record these live musicians. 00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:37.760 So I thought like, okay, this is the perfect time. 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:41.360 I have some pieces that I always wanted to record with live musicians. 00:45:41.519 --> 00:45:46.159 Yeah, they're a couple of years old, some was um even like 10 years old or so. 00:45:47.199 --> 00:46:05.440 And the other half of the album, like, yeah, and I'm gonna write a couple new pieces, of course, because hey, I I have this opportunity to record uh uh you know on Fontana dell'Anima that you just mentioned, uh uh live string orchestra I recorded in Bratislava, where I was actually born. 00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:07.760 Yeah, I came to Germany when I was six years old. 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:09.599 Oh, I didn't know that. 00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:12.960 So you were born in Bratislava, in Slovakia. 00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:14.400 That's now Slovakia, right? 00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:18.239 Yes, and when I was six, that was before the regime changed. 00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:32.880 So I was born in a socialist Czechoslovakia, and um my parents were not uh fans of the regime, and um you know I always joke about people because I I'm a double immigrant. 00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:37.440 I emigrated when I was six years old from Czechoslovakia to Germany. 00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:54.480 Then when I was 30, I am immigrated to the US from

Germany, so I know a little bit about being an immigrant, but sometimes people don't don't know what they got, you know. 00:46:54.880 --> 00:47:00.800 Living in a and I say free country now, with regards to you know, my parents fled a regime. 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:13.599 Um they they couldn't speak up, you know, you couldn't say something against the government in in socialist Czechoslovakia, you we'd be in big trouble, and my dad always did get in trouble doing that. 00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:17.840 So, you know, um dad was a rebel. 00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:21.679 He he was and is a rebel, yeah, for sure. 00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:24.159 Yeah, I mean he would have wear long hair. 00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:30.400 I mean, uh in school, he would like the principal would call him into the office every day, like, uh, why are you not cutting off the hair? 00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:40.400 Like, no, I want to listen to Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix, which by the way, in check uh socialist Czechoslovakia, you couldn't officially listen to Jimi Hendrix and Led Zeppelin. 00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:43.280 He had to buy the record on the black market, you know. 00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:52.320 So just just politics aside, it's a wide field, but like, hey, can we at least listen to music that we want to listen to? 00:47:52.400 --> 00:48:00.000 Like, what the actual um so this this is I mean, people forget, people forget, and it's not that long ago. 00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:01.280 It's not that long ago. 00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:05.360 Late 80s is when things started to really ch shift over there. 00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:07.199 Yes, you know, it's not that long ago. 00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:11.840 So long ago, so yeah, so but that's a whole different discussion. 00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:18.400 But uh I'm I'm in LA now, but I did go uh to Bratislava to record uh Fontana dell'Anima. 00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:31.679 I had some film projects there uh to record as well, so I booked a recording session, allocated like some hours for the films, and uh and I think one hour to record Fontana dell'Anima because it's a complex piece and it's polyphonic. 00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:37.360 We talked about polyphony earlier, and uh there's a lot happening, so I wanted to have enough time. 00:48:37.679 --> 00:49:03.519 In simple terms to the listeners here, uh what uh homophobic okay, so in very simple terms, is uh uh polyphonic music is different than uh homophonic music where you have a melody and that's being accompanied in polyphonic music of Baroque uh of the Baroque period, uh, Bach and Handel, you have a melody, and there's a melody imitating it, and and there's a counterline, yeah. 00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:11.840 So there's a lot of lines happening musically at the same time, and to make all of that work and it still sound good, that's it's quite a skill. 00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:26.559 I mean, Bach is someone who was able to improvise that, and he would like improvise pieces on the harpsichord back then that like you know probably we couldn't even compose if we sat down and sat there for three years. 00:49:26.800 --> 00:50:00.079 But um it was a different time, and and he he the this was the style of the time, and it is a very it's quite complex, but there's like so much skill and so much beauty in it, and um yeah, you know, um it's just fascinating, and to you know, it was fascinating for for me to you know try my hands on that stuff, but also knowing that hey, you're gonna have these fantastic players, and you know, these session players, they they show up there, they haven't seen this piece before, they're gonna side read it, right? 00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:02.800 So they're like, Okay, you okay, here comes the click. 00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:04.480 One, two, three, four. 00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:09.519 Okay, I've never seen this piece in my life, but so that that was inspiring to know okay. 00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:12.719 I'm gonna have this uh string orchestra which did you have on it? 00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:14.480 Uh 21 strings. 00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:27.280 So we had um I had on that recording session six, six, four, four, one, which means six first violins, six second violins, four violas, four celly, and one double bass. 00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:28.960 Okay. 00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:33.679 Um and uh the no, go ahead, keep keep keep going. 00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:36.480 Alright, yeah, so that that that was just exciting. 00:50:36.559 --> 00:50:40.559 So this is uh one of the pieces that had the I was looking something up here, but go ahead. 00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:51.280 Yeah, uh I had that string orchestra on one other piece called June, uh, which is a more of a film music adjacent um sounding piece. 00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:56.880 Uh so I had the string orchestra on that, and some grand piano that I played. 00:50:57.119 --> 00:51:25.280 Um I had and the other pieces, uh, the the trilogy I mentioned earlier at solo piano, um, ion neo, and then some other pieces had I like doing like a wild mix, so like for example, on the first piece, the opener loon dance, I had a soprano, a singer, I had a string quartet, I had an oboe, I had a French horn, I had um a harp. 00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:38.719 So it's like an unusual ensemble, but I loved kind of the textures, and here kind of to to uh uh go back to an earlier point, samples and also you know, tools can be helpful. 00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:54.800 I wrote this piece when I got this like new sample library, like when I started, you know, going more into the direction of film music, and then just became fascinated of like, oh wow, I have this whole orchestra and I play on my keyboard, and here's a harp, and here's a French horn. 00:51:55.280 --> 00:52:19.920 And um I've always wanted to record it live because you know I've I really l like this piece, and uh I I loved uh the arc of it and the melodies, and it's a very you know kind of random ensemble, and I just never had that ensemble booked, you know, because

it's it's such a peculiar, you know, uh collection of musicians on that piece Lunden. 00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:40.079 So this was the opportunity where I'm like, okay, I have a budget now, and I'm I have the musicians booked for these other pieces, but I'm gonna bring in the harp just for this one piece, and I believe the the French horn also just came in for that one piece, and uh and and then the rest can stay for the other pieces. 00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:45.039 So, you know, sometimes you have to be a little bit uh practical with these recording sessions. 00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:51.119 Okay, who can go home earlier and then we we save a little bit of money, and um yeah. 00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:52.400 Yeah, wow. 00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:55.039 That's a that's a massive project to take on. 00:52:55.119 --> 00:52:58.639 I mean, it's uh but you did it very fast, it seems. 00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:01.920 You know, fast is a relative uh term. 00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:09.519 I I did it relative fast once I got the budget, and I had some of the pieces or and some pieces I wrote very quickly. 00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:13.360 So the last piece on the record is a piece called Prayer. 00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:32.960 And not to get into politics again, but you know, I I told you I was born in Bratislava, and when the Ukraine war started, um the war in Ukraine, the war against Ukraine, I I guess you have to say, I you have to say anything, it is it's a war which is so it is a war, it's it's it's horrible. 00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:54.320 And you know, and I was in Germany uh actually at that point when when it started, and I I um and my mom, and you have to remember she grew up in in Czechoslovakia, she was 12 years old when the Soviet Union came with their tanks and uh to slash down the protest, the the peaceful protest against the regime. 00:53:54.480 --> 00:54:34.000 Yeah, so she was 12 years old, so that uh obviously left a mark on her, and and she was crying when when in in February 2022, like you know, yeah, the where the Ukraine was invaded, and um it that really resonated with me because you know of course it's a big world, and we have enough problems over here, and you know, for someone maybe who who doesn't have that kind of historical perspective of like, hey, what is it like you you get invaded, you know, and now it's don't say anything against the government, don't say anything against the regime, you know. 00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:59.599 It's it's you know quite quite haunting, and the the this piece just came out of me, you know, this like peaceful, meditative, um contemplative piece, uh, and I was just playing on the piano in this very slow, um almost like Arvo paired uh kind of vibe of very uh prolonged notes. 00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:18.639 And I brought in this wonderful cellist, Eva Brenner, who had a similar journey than me because she's from Prague, she's from the Czech Republic, but she lives in Germany and has has lived all almost her you know whole adult

life in Germany, and and we connected interestingly through Spotify. 00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:39.840 So here Spotify also has good good things through uh and and uh she added uh one of my pieces to her playlist uh from a film music uh score, and we then like started like sending messages back and forth, and I thanked her and and she's like, Hey, why why don't we ever do a collaboration, you know? 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:41.679 You on the piano, me on the cello. 00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:56.559 And so I of course thought of her that that would be and she has such a wonderful, beautiful tone, and she could of course relate to the you know, in particular to how this piece came about, how it came out of me. 00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:09.679 So um, yeah, so uh that was uh I think you know a very rewarding and also resonating uh experience to have this piece on there, and it's that's the last piece on the record. 00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:10.480 Yeah. 00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:14.559 Um I would highly recommend uh uh listening to this. 00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:16.079 I I really enjoyed it. 00:56:16.239 --> 00:56:19.360 Um and and you do you perform live? 00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:25.280 Uh how much live performing do you do with either do you have do you still play in a in a like a band? 00:56:25.679 --> 00:56:30.960 You still do I have a I have a band project, but we we so far it was only a studio project. 00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:51.119 Um but there's plans for the future and I do miss it, you know, and kind of like you know, life kind of goes in cycles, and I've been at this um uh kind of 12 years ago when I moved to the US, I almost left this like life life aspect of my uh musicianship behind. 00:56:51.280 --> 00:57:08.800 I mean, it not a lot as a conscious choice, but I was so wrapped up in the film music world, but I do miss it, and I uh I have plans to get back on the stage, uh whether it be with a band or solo or in whatever context, because you know it's it's it's uh we need it. 00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:12.960 We need both as performers and as audience, we need the life experience. 00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:19.599 We we need to connect to other humans, and there's nothing to connect us better than music, I think. 00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:23.760 I always say like the the best thing about music is music. 00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:32.079 Uh it's great to get paid for it and and uh live that kind of uh you know professional life as well, but it's still the best thing about music. 00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:32.960 Oh, for sure. 00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:39.599 You know, none of us who went into music for the for the creativity or for what how it resonated with you, you know. 00:57:39.679 --> 00:57:47.840 I I never thought about okay, so how am I gonna pay my rent with like sitting here on this uh little instrument or or big instrument or whatever? 00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:57.199 That was never until very much later when I made the choice as a grown-up, like, hey, well, yeah, I don't want

to do anything else, so there's no choice. 00:57:57.679 --> 00:58:00.719 Yeah, so how what is the practical implication of that? 00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:05.760 But I the the whole many years before that, it was never a consideration. 00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:41.119 So let me first think about whether I could, you know, how much money I could make, which but and also to wrap it up again in our in our debate about AI and all that, I think it's important to point out there needs to be money going into the arts, and there needs to be money going to the musicians and to the creators who create the pieces, because if we grew up in a world, if I grew up as a young musician in a world where that would not be an option where you like you would never get paid anything for doing anything music related, I would still be very passionate about it. 00:58:41.199 --> 00:58:50.400 I know that because of what I just said, but you would hit a dead end, you would hit like the end of the road and be like, well, this is as far as I can take it, you know. 00:58:50.480 --> 00:59:01.360 But then if everyone is forced to work in some kind of job that's non-music related, and we have no one, we have no creatives ever being able to spend time with the art, you know. 00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:18.880 Yeah, and this is not the 1980s kids, you know, where uh people when and I have to I have to bring up uh Quincy Jones who just passed away at 91, and I had the chance to meet him and work on a I was on a we were on the same uh on the same project uh together. 00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:24.880 Uh amazing called uh um One Little Finger, which came out in 2019. 00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:36.320 And I went to the LA premiere and I met Quincy and you know he had a he had a couple songs on it, and I had a song on it, and um, so I got to hang out with him a little bit and talk, and you know, he was a great guy. 00:59:36.400 --> 00:59:37.119 He was a great guy. 00:59:37.360 --> 01:00:03.440 But the his time, you know, like he's a he's kind of like the perfect example because when uh when he produced he produced Michael Jackson's Thriller, um several uh Michael Jackson albums, and but when Thriller came out and people were switching over from uh albums and tapes to CDs when the CD came up, people bought the same product, the same record, a second time, or even a third time. 01:00:03.679 --> 01:00:05.599 So which was the heyday. 01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:13.599 The 80s was the heyday where where you didn't have the internet and there was no there was pirating, but you know, you'd have to sit there and make a copy of the tape. 01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:17.519 It took a long time, you know, to to pirate something. 01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:26.639 And uh we're living in a totally different time, but but during that age, you know, you there was a lot more money to go around in in the music business. 01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:35.280 Um, but I think I think we're we're coming to a we're coming to a new generation, a new time, and uh you have to get creative, folks. 01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:41.199 If you want to make money in music, you can't just be creative with music, you have to be creative with the business of music. 01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:47.920 So oh yeah, I mean that's a whole different conversation, but like you just said, the business part of the word. 01:00:48.320 --> 01:00:59.599 Um and for me it was a journey that very much had to do with moving to the US because the mindset in a good way here in the US is so much more about business. 01:00:59.679 --> 01:01:02.079 And I went to USC for a one-year program. 01:01:02.320 --> 01:01:20.320 You know, I studied piano in Germany, and not that no one ever mentioned the word business, but not to the extent of like, hey, look, when you're out of college as a musician, you are a business, you know, you are your own, you know, company or your own brand. 01:01:20.559 --> 01:01:21.760 No one ever talked about that. 01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:36.079 And you know, my natural inclination was not to think about that that much because I'm like, I'm so wrapped up in music and learning and development, creating, and to be on that side of like, okay, who are you? 01:01:36.239 --> 01:01:37.039 What's your identity? 01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:38.159 How can I market this? 01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:39.039 What's your brand? 01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:54.960 You know, like that never occurred to me as a young musician to think about that, and I think I think they should they they should have had at least had like a class or a discussion group about it in music college in Germany about that at any point, you know, and it was so much more in the US, you know. 01:01:55.039 --> 01:02:25.840 I did this one-year program at USC, film music, um and besides being a wonderful program and you being right next to the best film school in in the world, uh, and USC, and you connecting with the young filmmakers, but just your mentors and teachers speaking so much about you know, how do you go out there and and uh sell yourself, or how do you go out there and you know, sell your brand, sell your business, build your business, build your identity. 01:02:26.159 --> 01:02:29.840 That people say, Hey, no, I want to work with David, I want to work with Jan. 01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:32.159 You know, that's that's who I want to work with. 01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:34.159 So that's such an important part. 01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:36.880 Again, how do those two mix together? 01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:40.719 I don't know, they are totally different uh pairs of shoes, as we say. 01:02:40.800 --> 01:02:43.440 Uh we can practice it, we can practice right now. 01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:45.360 Speaking of selling yourself, all right. 01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:49.280 Yes, how do you how you know I did that? 01:02:50.239 --> 01:02:51.679 Brilliant! Thank you. 01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:54.079 Uh, I'll be here uh all afternoon. 01:02:54.639 --> 01:02:59.519 Um, how do you uh sell yourself, uh

David? 01:02:59.679 --> 01:03:05.519 Where can people find you and your music and where can they pick up this new album called One O and Hey? 01:03:05.679 --> 01:03:06.880 That's a very good question. 01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:14.480 They can find me anywhere in the on the internet on all streaming platforms, whether it's Spotify, Apple Music, Title, Deezer. 01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:23.199 You just type in my name and you listen to my music and give it a few spins, and you know, listen. 01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:28.159 Listen really with with headphones and um take take some time. 01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:34.559 You know, we we need these this time to really let music work in us reflect. 01:03:34.639 --> 01:03:38.800 Yeah, but if you need that sort of thing, if you if you want, yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:46.079 Some yeah, and you know, some pieces are more upbeat and some are more contemplative, but you know that I think there's a variety variety on it. 01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:53.119 If you are old school and want a CD, then email me through my website and we'll get you covered. 01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:53.760 Brilliant. 01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:55.119 And what do you have coming up? 01:03:55.199 --> 01:03:56.320 What do you what do you have coming up? 01:03:56.400 --> 01:03:57.280 What are you working on now? 01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:09.840 I have another uh album release coming up actually of a film score of Daughter of the Sun that I mentioned earlier, and it also just won an award for best score at FilmQuest in in uh Utah in Salt Lake City. 01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:14.800 Um so this is coming out, it looks like December. 01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:18.800 December 6th uh of this year. 01:04:18.880 --> 01:04:51.519 So soon this is a film score, and um yeah, and I'm currently working on uh two film uh well, one film and one TV uh things that I can't speak about yet, but I'm excited to just to have work because it's you know, as as uh a creative and self-employed person, it's just you know, you take it as it comes, and I you know it's it's a difficult time for the film and TV industry, and there's been the strikes, and there's been a lot of realignment, and the streamers are producing less content. 01:04:52.239 --> 01:05:02.559 But I'm just happy to be making music and to get to record live musicians on projects because I think that's the always the the game changer, yeah. 01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:04.960 Real real humans, real musicians. 01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:14.159 Well, I am I am you seem like a really cool guy, very creative and a and a good person, and uh you know it's good to have people like you in this business. 01:05:14.559 --> 01:05:20.960 And thank you, and and being here in the US, you know, and and working in in the big cities here, LA, New York. 01:05:21.199 --> 01:05:22.559 So so that's great. 01:05:22.639 --> 01:05:25.760 I'm gonna quickly uh uh I hope people will check you out. 01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:26.800 I'm sure they will. 01:05:27.039

--> 01:05:33.360 I want to quickly announce uh one or two things, and I don't even now I don't even know what it was that I wanted to say. 01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:39.760 Oh, I have a show in uh Germany coming up in uh Hamburg, my my old stomping grounds. 01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:42.559 We're playing at Birdland Birdland, Hamburg, January 30th. 01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:43.440 Oh, I love it. 01:05:44.639 --> 01:05:45.280 Nice club. 01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:46.320 I love that place, man. 01:05:46.480 --> 01:05:51.360 They are I played there, I played there when I lived in in uh in Hamburg. 01:05:51.519 --> 01:05:53.360 I lived there for two years and I actually played one time. 01:05:55.440 --> 01:05:59.119 I lived in in uh Otensen, so near Altuna. 01:05:59.360 --> 01:05:59.519 Yeah. 01:05:59.760 --> 01:06:02.000 On Toastiek, yeah, yes. 01:06:02.079 --> 01:06:03.920 I lived in Eimsbuttel and I lived in Weinz. 01:06:04.159 --> 01:06:05.119 Oh, nice, nice. 01:06:05.199 --> 01:06:09.599 So uh and my best friend uh uh Marco, he's a uh guitar player. 01:06:09.679 --> 01:06:12.159 Uh he lives in Hamburg, so I'll send him to your concert. 01:06:12.239 --> 01:06:13.440 Uh please do, please do. 01:06:13.519 --> 01:06:15.519 We're gonna keep in touch when we're once we're up the air. 01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:17.199 We're gonna I want to get your contact info. 01:06:17.360 --> 01:06:17.519 Yes. 01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:19.840 Um, NAM show in LA, folks. 01:06:19.920 --> 01:06:27.599 I'm playing at the Anaheim Marriott uh on January 22nd in oh, you're in LA, you should come to this. 01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:30.719 I will, I'll be at NAM, so I will definitely see you then. 01:06:30.800 --> 01:06:31.440 I'll see you January. 01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:32.159 Well meet. 01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:32.800 I love it. 01:06:33.360 --> 01:06:35.039 Yes, that's wonderful, fantastic. 01:06:35.199 --> 01:06:35.760 Uh thank you. 01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:42.480 And then uh we will be, I think, at the Venice West with um uh Marky Lennon from Venice that weekend. 01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:45.039 Uh, we're still trying to confirm that show. 01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:53.679 Uh Port Washington Library in On Long Island, February 21st, and then I'm gonna be back in South Africa in April, I think, to play Splashy Fen. 01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:55.599 I'm hoping that's gonna happen. 01:06:55.920 --> 01:06:58.239 We're working on that, my agent working on that. 01:06:58.559 --> 01:07:03.039 So, and then other than that, folks, you know, just uh stay tuned. 01:07:03.119 --> 01:07:11.760 Thanks for all the lovely feedback on the new single, and uh thanks to my guest, uh David David Batock Burtalk, B-E-R-T-O-K. 01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:15.599 Check out his new album, one available everywhere now. 01:07:16.400 --> 01:07:21.599 And uh you can support the show at making sound podcast.com if you like value for value. 01:07:21.679 --> 01:07:23.840 If you like what you hear, give something back. 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:25.119 That's how it works. 01:07:25.360 --> 01:07:28.320 And I will see you next time, everybody. 01:07:28.639 --> 01:07:29.280 Bye. 01:07:29.599 --> 01:07:30.480 Thank you, everyone. 01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:46.559 Thank you, Janet.