บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Creating Space for Healing and Community

keeps us in alignment with our own goals and our own, you know business model that we want to be that space where people feel like even if they don't purchase a cup of tea, they sit down and have a glass of water, they just sit and cry it out or th you know, think about something that they need to process, that that space is there for them to hold ⁓ hold them carefully ⁓ and intentionally while they, you know, this life. Yeah, I think that's the word that resonates most for me is intentional. Everything about the space. And the business feels very intentional. I'm curious if you could take me back to what drew you to this healing work in herbal medicine. Like, was there a moment that set you down this path? So, yes, great question. So, ⁓ a couple of things about me, I'm a Milwaukee native, was born and raised here till seven, moved to Mississippi, country, dirt, dark roads of caciesco, Mississippi. ⁓ when I was seven years old, my dad moved my brother and I, my fa our family to Mississippi. where he and my mom are both from. And ⁓ I just saw folks reaching for things in the kitchen cabinet and and other pla not just going to the pharmacy. You know, here in Milwaukee we could hop down to Walgreens, you know, quickly. But I I saw different things. You know, my grandmother I remember being a kid and having a ear infection and she's like, baby, just put some sweet oil in that baby's ear. You know, so sweet oil is olive oil and it's very soothing, very healing for the inner ear. And so things like that really inspired me to know that there was something outside of allopathic medicine that was available to us. And so I really wanted to lean into that. And I wish at the time, you know, I was definitely very well influenced by, you know, those those ⁓ remedies that were shared in my childhood. But most kids, you know, we're we're running in and out, we're not necessarily really paying attention. But I think those things planted a seed, right? And then ⁓ at fifteen I had a pretty traumatic experience. ⁓ I had an ovarian cyst that had grown the size of a five month old fetus. Like so my belly was protruding. It was it was interesting and it was very much an emergency situation. My mom or I, we didn't know it was there, ⁓ ended up in the emergency room and my experience ⁓ in the emergency room was kinda traumatic. ⁓ and I think just from that point and different experiences within medicine. I wanted to find other things, other ways to avoid poor health, you know, maintain good health and to find a way to balance the in-betweens. And so I ⁓ from a very early age, relatively speaking, early teens, started to look into herbal medicine as my own personal practice for healing. Of course I do find that there is value. I like to be very clear about the fact that there is value in allopathic medicine and the technologies that are available to us of course today. at the same time I think when we're talking about maintain like I have a little bit of a sore throat today. I don't need an antibiotic at this moment, right? I this cup of tea is soothing me perfectly fine. And it'll probably get me through this little little bit of a storm, right? So it's just been a personal practice and then as I was learning things for myself, so began to g become more confident with sharing that with other people. And so I became what's considered a community herbalist. Yeah. That's so interesting to me that you had the origins even from when you were little. and of course I think anyone that's had a negative experience in maybe traditional medicine tends to reach for other modalities. I think that's sort of like a natural outgrowth to just sort of say, Well, what else is there? You know what I mean? 'Cause it does not it doesn't seem like something I can really depend on. And even when I've been through very traditional protocols, the number of times that a doctor has said, like, well, we don't really know I mean, I feel like sort of stunned by that. You know what I mean? Like, what do you mean you don't know? Well, we're gonna give you this medication. Just let's try it. We don't really let's just try it. Which you know what I mean, I feel like 'cause they're in a white lab coat and you're in a very clinical setting. Yeah. Expect that it's going to work. ⁓ and of course, like we are multi dimensional beings. ⁓ and so and there are lots of different inputs and outputs that have to you know can can help us get well. Yeah. I'm curious, like you have worn a lot of many, like a lot of hats, you know, massage therapist, Reiki Healer, Doula, Herbalus, Moore. What what's the like through line with all of those for you? Like how how are they connected for you? Or are they not? Do you have them distinctly compartmentalized? ⁓ I feel like they all v the the through line is is love. So my very, very first business, ⁓ I was thrust into entrepreneurship. I say that because it came after a layoff back in 2009. And it wasn't honeybee sage. It wasn't massage. It wasn't any of those things. But I had said in 2008, working in a classroom, excuse me, and kind of getting growing ⁓ exhausted with the traditional education kind of pathway. You know, I wasn't finding that a friend of mine and I at the time, she was a teacher, I was a paraprofessional, and we were finding that we were just the system wasn't a of space that where we felt like we could be the most effective. And so we both in her classroom at the end of the year declared that we were gonna become entrepreneurs. She had a craft. She is a crochet artist, ⁓ and she's also a hairstylist. So she that summer dived dove right into that. I didn't have anything. I didn't have any offerings or anything like that. And so I had no idea like how what I was gonna offer. But the next summer I actually moved to a different position as a youth program coordinator for a non profit in the city. And economic downturn came a little bit later after shortly after. Well, ⁓ like a year after I took that

position and I was laid off. I I was inspired standing on the street one day. ⁓ not standing, driving down the street. There was a young man standing on the street and he by all means, ⁓ you know, stereotypically looked like, you know, a gangster. You know, like hoodie, saggy pants, but you know, the the stereotype, right? Was holding a baby in his arm, holding, you know, another baby by the hand. He looked very nurturing in that moment. And I decided in that moment, that's my mission to spread love. That's it. Two thousand eight, around the time that I kinda declared I'd become an entrepreneur, having no idea what l what path I would take towards that. fell out ⁓ towards the end of two thousand nine I kinda lost my religion, if you will, still very much ⁓ spiritually grounded. You know, I was raised ⁓ in Christianity, so that's still foundational for me. But ⁓ I just decided that love was gonna be my religion because love is it doesn't separate you from anybody. And so I even in the space that we've curated in Honeybee Sage, I'm always so amazed. I still stand in awe and humility when I observe the different types of people coming in and out of our doors and sitting at the bar together or sharing a table or the tables are kinda close, right? So they're really close together on a church pew intentionally, right? And they're talking about what tea the other person has in there. So for me curating a space, being a person that hopefully my presence presence is a space where people feel love, where they experience God, you know, authentic divine love in human form. I think that's the through line for me. That's the long story. Not so I love that so much. We have a very similar p timeline, to be honest with you. I ⁓ I started my first business in two thousand nine. I also lost my religion that year too. Okay. ⁓ and that's interesting. Maybe there was like a yeah, I don't know, something in the in the ether, I guess. Maybe we were all just disillusioned by like, you know, the fallibility of all the institutions that promised us things would be different. Yeah. ⁓ that's really Really amazing. And you know, I I have felt it when I'm in your space and I really appreciate like the closeness of all of it. You know what I mean? Sitting at those little bistro tables and being right next to other people. It feels like you're in Europe. You know what I mean? Like that sort of like grand cafe sensation. And I don't think there's enough spaces, not just in Milwaukee, but in the United States, where you can have that sort of serendipitous run in. You know what I mean? It's very easy to go to a l much larger space and not have to even make eye contact with people, let alone like sit next to them and actually engage with them. I'm curious, you know, as a business, obviously you sell tea, you tea accoutrement, etc. But you're as ⁓ just as much like a gathering space as you are a business. What kind of community have you seen form around that space? I mean you've created a platform for people to convene and being a a person who works in the creation of space through Milwaukee. And honestly I like to think of myself as a platform artist. Yeah. I'm always sort of mesmerized about how you can have a very intentional intention for a space, but then the community will fill in the color for you. You know what I mean? ⁓ and it it is always sort of surprising. Like maybe in spite of what you originally intended. Yeah. So when I came home to open Honey Be Saved. I said to myself that I would be here for three years, you know, young, ambitious entrepreneur. I'm gonna get this business settled, and I'm gonna go back out into the world and I'm gonna curate community conversations with white women and black women around racial reconciliation. Mm-hmm. That was supposed to happen if I opened in two thousand eighteen, two thousand twenty one, I should have been out on the road. Like and so the community that I've seen, I bring that up because one of my goals in establishing Honey Bee Sage on King Drive. And that was my goal even before we got our our humble beginnings in in the Sherman Phoenix, which was by by the way, very divinely orchestrated. Like that path was so divine. But landing back on King Drive was was a dream come true, pun intended. And my goal in being on King Drive was that I thought, you know, it's one of those railroad tracks in the city. Obviously Milwaukee unfortunately has, you know, we have the stigma that you know, we're notorious for being one of the most racially segregated cities in America. And I feel like King Drive is again one of those those lines in the same. You know, on across the street from Honey Bee Sage is how ⁓ is Brewers Hill. We're on the side of how zipper really. Yeah. Yeah. We're on the side of how you park, you go a few blocks north. You're in ⁓ you're in Haram Bay. And then you go a few blocks south, you're downtown. And right two blocks south of us on the intersection of Walnut and King Drive. King Drive used to turn into Old World Third. Walnut still turns into pleasant. So there's some still to me obvious lines of delineate. There's some there's there's some separation there. And so for me, what I wanted to create in the Honeybee Sage was an intersection of b of health and wellness. Like When you are when you're sick, when you need when you're ailing, if you're fall there there are a few people I think in the world who are so ignorant that if they're ailing, that they wouldn't that they would allow their ideas of about somebody's sexuality, somebody's race, somebody's culture, somebody's those things to separate them if they needed help. And so for me, the community has helped. They've they've responded I responded to the call to create the space, but the community has filled that in. It I love how you said, you know, they color they color in the spaces and they they really have done that. And I just again sometimes I'll sit outside the cafe and I'll just observe the

different people coming in and out, you know. I'll come in the cafe and I'll see very different people seemingly ⁓ you know, ⁓ b visually sitting together and talking. you know, my my staff interacting. My somebody told me and I forgot the name of she said something I forget the name. But she was just saying how colorful my staff looks, you know. We took a picture and she's like, ⁓ it's amazing how that shows up. But I feel like, you know, Milwaukee has within Honeybee Sage realized something that I think we're all hoping for and that space to be seen, be different and be appreciated for our differences. We don't have to ignore our differences or act like they don't exist. We just have to be accepting of one another in a way that allows every one of us to thrive and be happy and be in joy and experience good things in life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All over a cup of tea. Yeah. It's really it's really magnificent. So I've heard you say that Honey Bee Sage is a resource for homegrown healers. Yeah. What does that phrase mean? So we our our tagline is that we're a global community of homegrown healers. And so I am not a certified herbalist. And I love to I love to like tell people that. ⁓ you know, philosophy when we show up at the doctor's office, we turn off a lot of us turn off all our sensory, all of the intuition that's flowing within us to Surrender ourselves to the doctor and say, This is what I'm experiencing. Tell me what's wrong. And nobody knows better what's going on in your body and in your human experience than you. No, nobody. You know, even as a massage therapist, I think Hippocrates is quoted and saying something like, you know, massage is a great place to start if you want to get into medicine. Because we're actually we're touching places that some people's intimate partners don't touch. We're probably touching everything except for the places that they do, right? And so you're actually feeling things whether that's some a a physical manifestation, energetically, tension, stress. And so I feel like we have created the the goal is to get folks in tune with their bodies. One of my favorite scriptures is when Jesus told the disciples like the kingdom of God is within you. And so I say that to people often. that you know more intuitively about your health and your wellness experience than I do intellectually. And anybody who stands outside of your body, outside of your experience and tells you that they know better than you know or can sense if you tune in, like what's going on with you. You may not be able to put a clinical ⁓ name or a term with it. You may not be able to diagnose or or or treat it without some insight or some, you know a mirror kind of reflecting back to you kinda but that's what we've become is a space where we kinda hold up the mirror and say, Hey, okay, these are the things that you're you're discussing that you're feeling. These herbs have been here since the beginning of time before mankind, if we if we honor the creation story, right? And there are things here that are available for you. And I can tell you how folks have used them in the past. But what we think it was the creator intention creator's intention on how they can help us find balance in our bodies and I'm promoting wellness. I'm not treating disease. Sure, sure. So the homegrown healer piece is like within yourself, I am again, I do not discount the the value of the information that we receive from allopathic medicine and and ⁓ you know, traditional Western medicine. But I do find that we are more we can be more intuitively inclined to what our bodies need to heal if we just have the space to acknowledge what we're experiencing and have somebody who's knowledgeable to kinda point us in the direction of some things that might help that the health of, you know, a particular organ or system or or what have you. Yeah. You know, you know, that's making me think is I just feel like we don't as a society talk about like consciousness. In the same way. And what you're describing is really like giving people permission to listen to their own bodies. Yes. But in order to do that, you have to be self-conscious. Yes. And I wonder actually like the way you're describing how you see all your guests. You know what I mean? And you give them a chance to like slow down. Yeah. And just sit still with their tea timer. Right? Like you're giving them a portal really to be more in touch with their inner world. So that they can get to all the things you're talking about, which is like, no, actually I've been having this ache for a while. You know what I mean? Whatever it is. And of course you have a myriad of different herbs at your disposal that may help with those. But you can't you can't even really offer that to someone unless they are more conscious. And so I feel like yeah, I like I like thinking about this as like a portal for someone's entry into their own elevated consciousness. I love that. And I'm I'm gonna adapt that as a new descriptor. For Honey Bee Sage because it it is it it is exactly that. I tell people that, you know, the hospital sometimes people just need space and quiet. When I was in Nashville for I I lived there for six years prior to coming home and and building Honey Bee Sage and I spent so much time in the woods hiking. Just so much. In fact, I went I the first time that I went hiking in Nashville, I was working at Lane Bryant as a part time job and I went into working my boss was like, did you come in here high? And I'm like, no, I've just been hiking all day, you know. I'm elevated, you know, just from nature. And I think the space that is created, like that is where God lives in the quiet space, the moments the a pause that we take, spirit creator, whatever you like to call it, consciousness, right? That is where that lives when we get quiet, ground ourselves in the moment we can hear things that we've been researching and trying to discover for months and months and years and years. If

you just get a moment where you can just in a safe environment, get quiet, get still, like the downloads that can happen are ⁓ are amazing. And I've experienced that myself. You know, I had an experience I was eating mints at ⁓ Massage Envy and I was just like before, you know, fresh into my breath, we gave ⁓ the guests and I was there's a little soft mints that your granny kept in her purse, right? a a pad of sugar, really. And so at the end of the night I'd be terribly, terribly sleepy. And I'm like, God, what's happen like why am I so sleepy at the end of the shift? And I went to sleep one night and I dreamt about cinnamon. I was like, cinnamon, cinnamon. Why did I dream about cinnamon? Cinnamon helps to regulate blood sugar. I've been popping these mints. I stopped popping the mints. I stopped having the spikes and drops. Right? That sleep. That moment that asking the question. Taking the moment to listen, the answer came. And I think we all have that ability when we intentionally get still, get quiet, in a safe space, we can hear more clearly the intuition, ⁓ the inner guidance that's available to us all the time. Yeah. That's really, really lovely. Yeah, I'm I'm proud of you for creating this. Like I think because some people might just go You know, 'cause they get invited to meet there. But that this is like a p ideally like a place for people to start that journey. Yes. ⁓ because I think what you're describing is a lifetime of practice. And for anyone that's listening to this, they might even be like a little intimidated, like, well how the hell would I even start something like that? You know what I mean? And it's hard and it requires you to be vigilant. Yes. To yourself. But yeah, you're right. It's just a little bit of quiet sitting still, figuring out what you need. I actually came into work today and I sat down and I was feeling really agitated and I asked myself, like, why am I feeling agitated? You know, I don't have anything really stressful happening. And I couldn't quite I just couldn't quite like come up with an answer. So I like, all right, before I like get into my email, I'm just gonna go sweep and wash the floor in the office. Like I'm gonna do something physical, but I know that I self regulate by doing an act but two things. One, moving my body and you know the space is big enough that like you gonna get a little like a little bit of a sweat on trying to like do all that quickly. But then two, by doing something that has like a start, a middle and an end. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. Ha and so like but I I have learned that that that's like a ritual for me, a micro ritual. You know what I mean? That like, yeah, okay, sweeping the floors doesn't always sound like ⁓ I think some people think like wellness like ⁓ I have to put a face mask on. Like you know what I mean? Like it's something like that. But it's not always like that. Like what will make you feel well in this moment? And I felt like completely restarted. Like

I could six minutes later sit down and felt like, ⁓ yeah, that was the reboot I needed. I just needed to like reset. Yeah. I'm curious, do you have any like ⁓ Yeah, go ahead. Do you have rituals that you practice every day? You know what I mean? Because obviously you create this space for everyone else, but like how do you keep, you know, filling your own well? Yeah, I will say that I like I'm always I I'm not always, but I try to my intention is to be honest. And there are times, you know Where I am so hourly focused that I do skip on rituals. But for me, the practice of putting water in my tea kettle, letting turning the stove on, letting it come to that whistle, right? While I'm my water is boiling, I'm preparing my tea, I'm getting my cup ready, just taking that moment. And for me, I like to check out a bit, you know. It what you did to me is what I describe as checking out to tune in. Right, when you're less focused on the problem and you're not on that wavelength anymore, the solution has an opportunity to kinda float in. And I think going back to the conversation about Honey Bee Sage becoming a portal or being a portal, it it is it's that. The T is set in front of you. You know, you're taught y how to engage the process, take the strainer out, watch the sand, take the strainer out. Add your honey. That's kind of you know, a beautiful practice to watch. And then stirring the sound of stirring your tea, sitting there, letting it cool. And then now, you know, all of the things that I have a a plaque on my wall that says healing is a practice of pause. It was a gift from a friend. And I think for me, when I find myself doing too much externally, the pause, the the shower, the cup of tea, the five moments of stillness, I'm not gonna tell you that I have like a religious meditation practice, although I've been felt a personal conviction for many years to really dive more deeply into that. In fact now I'm feeling even greater conviction because I feel like honeybee sage has kind of we've been on a bit of an ascent and I feel like we're like at this plateau that can sometimes feel like you're you're regressing. But then, you know, you you're there to get used to kind of a new normal before you start to, you know, ascend again. And or sometimes that can look like what feels like a regress, but you know, ultimately you're you're gonna be on the up at some point. And so Well it is always so interesting when you actually achieve a dream. You know what I mean? I feel like I've had multiple points in my life where I think, all right, this next hurdle will be the biggest thing we've ever done. And when you actually materialize it, realizing like, Okay, now what? Yeah. Now what's next? You know what I mean? Like there is a little bit of a I hear that. It's it's a feels like a plateau or even maybe like a letdown. Yes. So tell me, I the reason I reached out to you because I was because I saw you putting a dream out there into the ether of wanting to do some sort of expansion. Wha wha how do you think about the future? Like what feels exciting, what feels possible right now? I wanna I wanna know where are you going next? Thank you. It's interesting because I I told you I find myself in an interesting space right now where I do feel like I am feeling called or led to kind of really do some very intentional pausing. When you share your vision with folks and the vision is greater than you and you need you know that it's gonna require other visionaries or people who can get behind the vision to support it, to bring it to fruition, you kinda open yourself up to there's a lot of exposure that can feel like vulnerability that and and vulnerability is a requirement of growth and and if you're gonna be loved you have to take a chance on experiencing pain and that is literally what you know what vulnerability is your capacity to you know to deal with pain the pain that comes with you know being authentic and and true to yourself and so The goal for Honey Bee Sage, even before we took space to step foot in our first brick and mortar, was always to franchise. So that these little portals, pieces of heaven, were deposited all around the planet. Not just the country, the planet. Global community of homegrown healers. And when I share these things, I like to qualify them with the fact that they come in mo like the downloads come in moments of pause. I can be coming from a hike and hear global community of homegrown healers. I heard it one time. And if I hear something and it sticks, then I'm like, write that down. You know, because that came from somewhere, another dimension. And so I said all that to say, ⁓ I've I've been questioning the vision lately. Like, girl, you've done this. It's great. Like, can we just let's just be a great store in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on King Drive. Why do you have to plant many of these around the world? And I'm like, I have to ask myself, I have a I have the the option to stay here and dream about what that could be or to actually go. Have you read The Alchemist? One of my favorite books. So the crystal shop owner, right? He always dreamed of Mecca. He always wanted to go. And you know, Santiago's like, hey, you can go. Like, let's go. And he's like, No, I just want to hold the dream. you know, that feels better to me than the actual manifestation of it. And so I think I have the option. We all have the option when we come to these fourths in the road to say, Well, this is it. I'm just gonna it this is good enough. I'm just gonna land here. But every time I get there, Santiago was the same way. You know, he got to the crystal shop and before he, you know, and and and he's like, Well, I'm just gonna buy my sheep again and I'm gonna go back out and and then he's like, No I'm gonna stay at this crystal shop and I'm work. And I'm just I'm just gonna stay here. And like, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna buy my sheep and I'm gonna go back out. And he's like, no. He bought he got money and he

went to buy his ticket to go on a caravan. And at every every level, he there was a a plateau where he's like, he has the decision, you know, the road less travel, right? Which way are you gonna take? And my dream is to help facilitate, curate these spaces around the planet. Right, where where black and brown people, forgotten people, you know, marginalized population, like have access to this level of of curation that this is done, especially for you to be be able to access it, but also beyond that global community, it is it is created as a space for all people to gather and experience the the beauty of one another. without all the things that we've been taught to allow to divide us. So I would love to create a garden, social garden and market ⁓ in the lot adjacent to Honeybee Sage. And we've already opened a second location where we are transitioning from a grab and go model because that's just not us. We tried it. We thought it was gonna be cool because we were in the Marshall Building. We thought we'd just serve the beautiful people there. But we are an experience. We are a destination. We curate space. And so that's what we're gonna do, ⁓ teaching classes there. But ultimately w the goal is to create a model that can be replicated throughout the globe. That's what honeybees do. You know, they go where the land is barren and they pollinate it and they make beautiful things come to life. Yeah. ⁓ I love the way you just ended with that. Honestly, I had been thinking about honey bee but honey because of the tea service itself. But that's exactly right. That's what honeybees do. They pollinate the earth. And they give us all of the flowers and the fruit and I mean just what a beautiful, what a beautiful vision. Yeah. Yeah. And that's honeybee sage. A lot of people, you know, they you know, honeybees can be romanticized. You see honeybee stuff everywhere. And you come in our store and people think they're gonna come and get honeybee trinkets. And we we're we're probably gonna carry more of those things, you know, in the future. But it's about the the the ankh, right? ⁓ is ⁓ in the logo in here. And it's an ancient Egyptian symbol and this represents the the female principal, so the womb. This represents the fallopian tubes. ⁓ the where the egg and the s ⁓ the seed ⁓ meet. And then this is the phallus, the male principal, and they come together to create life. And they're you social creatures. They're focused on, you know, the worker bees are mostly all women. And or for female, and they they work themselves to death to make sure that the next generation can live and do and be as you know they've always been pollinators. They're called messengers of love def affectionately because they pollinate the earth. And so it for me, the the love of honey bees is not about the honey that they produce, even though that's a beautiful, beautiful bride product, it is the way that they engage in community and all parts are necessary. I would say there's a queen and you know, there's no king and that you know, my ego early on was like but then I learned that a queen cannot reproduce herself without a male. Right, exactly. So every as much as we might like to. Yeah. No. We got no like the worker bees are asexual and they can create male bees. But the queen who actually like is reverenced in the hive for the life that she gives, she has to work with everybody. You know, the w she needs the worker bees to take care of her, to take care of her babies. She needs the male bee to help her impregnate her with the babies. Like they all need each other. So such is life. God, you're so great. This is so, so great. This podcast series explores creativity in s in all of its different facets, but the conversations I get to have with other entrepreneurs are some of my absolute favorite because I just think you're so inspiring to me and I'm so excited about how far you've come and I cannot wait to see. I cannot wait to travel the globe and see Honey Beach City well done wellness all over the globe. And and that will happen because you are saying it into truth and so it'll be that that'll be. Thank you. And you can say that we built this together. You know, we for me that's the thing, right? You asked me how community has contributed. There's no way that I could have this beautiful vision of community without engaging community to build or to manifest the vision. Right. we've all the the energy that folks feel when they come in, the energy that they they they share the w in the words that they speak. All of that I feel like is the momentum that helps propel Honey Bee Sage into its next level. So I never feel like, you know, I'm just doing all this hard work myself. No, I'm I am a steward of a vision and of a community that we've all created, together. That is, you know, leadership through stewardship. That is my role. That's the role that I'm humbled to receive and to take in this vision. Well, keep going and growing. You're absolutely amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the program today. Absolutely. This has been beautiful. Thank you.