บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ EP18 Learning Safety - Literally: Making Sense of Mixed Messages with Brit Dias

an opening semisextile to your ascendant. Which I find really interesting given what you just shared. Because Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: even though the moon moment and awareness came online around two, it harkens back and connects and touches directly back to the birth story, which is what the ascendant can often represent. Right? Now the moons and Gemini, you got here quick. Right. That is interesting. And you got here quick because something Viv: Yeah, I took, yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: physical happened to your mother. Also, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: the dependency. You were born with an addiction. You were born with a dependency. And that to me is also this moon in the second house. Right? We're we're talking about pillar four meets pillar two here. So pillar Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: four is the support pillar, it's the moon, it's the cancer, the fourth house, and the opening or waxing square aspect all carry this under. Tone that I call support. But I Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: also can't also throw like they'll throw in protection into that. Defense is a really big part of it, too. Right. And so Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: that's the that's where mom comes in. This is where the caretaking comes in. So that checks out, checks out. Now pillar two, however, is the pillar I call anchor. and it has a lot to do with the body and it has a lot to do with regulation and with consistency, and stability. And so Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: that is Ceres, the planet Ceres, Taurus, which is your rising sign, right? We can see how this Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: came out with a crutchy Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: thing, And obviously the second house and the Viv: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: opening Semi-sextile right? which Viv: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: we have the support pillar meeting the dependency pillar, essentially, at the very, very Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: early onset here. This does speak directly in a pillar two relationship to a pillar two ascendant sign, Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: and in a pillar two house, like it amplifies this essence around. Consistency, dependency, stability, the body in itself, regulation of the body, feeling good in one's body is a pillar two topic. satisfaction, Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: food, right? These resources later in your life, this would have definitely trans, in my opinion, would have horrifically translated into money and worth things Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: because it those are resources, right? Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: how's that landing? how's that feel? Viv: No, yeah, that definitely is making sense too. Like I I really feel like you explained a lot of it for me where like I mean, I've always looked at it one way and then I'm hearing you speak and then like, my god, those pillars do make some sense too. So it's like Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: yeah, and then I do work with Ceres in a whole other way, but to hearing it in like a whole other facet, I was like, yeah, that I that aligns, that checks out. Laurel Kassor: So another thing that you had said about that that I really wanted to connect in that would have come online. And I'm wondering if we can pick just a little bit to see if there is any specific memory that comes up. And it's okay if there isn't. You are young. You know, we can move Viv: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: along to the next ones if nothing comes up. But it is interesting too, because although this harkens to the birth story, this event Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: is not the birth story. Like this event is almost like a spin-off of it. this Viv: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: event or this bubble of time could have certainly been very directly related to grandmother. There the moon Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: is in a waning semi to Jupiter Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: and to Chiron, who also Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: gets a s a kind of special treatment in my system. And I will mention that in a second. so there's something going on here at this like two year old marker around care, around ideas of care specifically, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: s consistency, safety are mixed together and to an extent given Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: the moon's position in the second house. But there's also something about like a a dissolve going on because the waning semi is Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: a pillar twelve aspect. The more I talk this out loud, the more I'm wondering if this wasn't maybe one of the points where you recognized your mother wasn't actually the one taking care of you, and that grandmother was. Because Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: the moon dissolving Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: connection into Jupiter and dissolving into Chiron, Viv: Yeah, so it was very apparent early on that Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: my mom wasn't the one who I could rely on for any care or support or even nurturing at all. And she I mean throughout my whole entire life was there and tried to be a friend, but she wasn't a mom. My grandmother always was. But she also was like very Gemini, but also had that Virgo moon where she was like, I can do better. I'm gonna teach you how to do it perfect. I'm gonna teach you how to be a little perfect standout human. Even as like I remember two, three, four, five years old, like she was trying to teach me how to be a mini adult all the time. Like Laurel Kassor: Mm. Viv: even at two, like I was being taught like how to do things w Like way ahead of time. Laurel Kassor: the Gemini learning. You were learning. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: this is connecting Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: to also the Jupiter bits where there's a concept. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: You're dissolving into this concept. Also the Chiron bits where there is a training. I believe that training fits with Chiron in all pillar six. the attunement pillar, the refinement pillar, the service pillar. But this is also when the moon's opening quincunx Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: to s your exact Saturn-Neptune

conjunction, who is also Tightly conjunct Venus. So we have Saturn and Neptune at 10, Venus at 9, and Viv: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Uranus at 3. And so even though he's not technically Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: part of that stellium, he might as well be. Might as well be. And it's in I would I wouldn't not count him. I wouldn't not count him. Viv: Yeah. I count him at least, so yeah, so like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: it's all in Capricorn too. let me. mentioned that since this opening quincunx is a Pillar Six aspect. It's sourcing from Chiron Virgo six house qualities, which Viv: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: Doubles as health stuff. I know we're gonna pull that in. I know that's gonna come in eventually, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: but also doubles as training. But Saturn's involved. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: So we're training and cat and Capricorn is involved. So we are literally Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: at two, was likely To baby Viv's brain. That was when you probably clocked. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Okay, there's a lot of different moving parts here. And that's Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: early as fuck to realize there's a lot of different moving parts, and I really do look at the pillar six energy as very much a tinkering a diagnosing and assessing. So it was almost like if your mom was like, I you're not doing that right, I can do it better. And in the and my hunch is that she was almost doing this is just my hunch. This is just hit me like an intuitive like little tap tap. that she Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: might have been doing that just to be like, see mom, I I'm I am capable after all. See I am a capable mother after all, mom to her mom. Viv: Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: You know what I mean? And so I don't know if that was true or not, but that's like how it came Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: in and it would make sense with the way your chart is set up for that to be part of the flood down from the adults. Viv: Yeah. And yeah, and it was constant like arguing between them of like who's doing the better job? And I'm like, can can you not? And then when I try to get in involved, it's just like the focus became like onto me and I was like, I just can we not? And like my grandmother, Gemini Through and through, but that that Virgo moon and my mom is a Sagittarius with a lot of freaking Sagittarius, Jupiter, Mars, Mercury, Sun, like all there. It's great. they're literally the opposite of one another and they exacerbated one another. And they they I I felt like a toy half the time. And I that's what I like literally was just thinking to myself all the time. I was like, I felt like a little toy. Laurel Kassor: Can we talk about how you're we're talking about this moon moment and this moon is in the second house of possessions? I mean, Viv: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: this is why this system is like continues to rock my world. Cause I'm like, damn, you're using the words to describe this stuff, this like be feeling like an item. Like you Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Laurel Kassor: were just a a baby doll. Almost, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: right? I can imagine that you would have felt like that. And that's the thing about these quincunx is because your moon is in a we haven't even gotten to the Pluto bit yet, but like your moon Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: is in a very tight what it's called a Yod for anyone listening Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: or watching, but when a planet is in a quincunx when it's in an quincunx to some planets and a quincunx to other planets, that can create this like little very acute triangle in the chart. And it puts a lot of pressure on the apex planet, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: which in Viv's case is the moon here. And remember, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: anything that's happening at this early phase of this chart is our first rodeo. We don't have reference Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: points. These formative points become reference points for both us consciously and unconsciously. They become part of the operating system and they get integrated in a certain way. And then as we move through our life story, we start to witness. Those same energies through new eyes, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: higher perspectives. And here comes some Pillar 11 philosophy at you, right? But when you move Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: into I've gotten far enough away to see the bigger picture of what was going on, then you can make different choices, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: et cetera, et cetera. But there was a lot of pressure going on you that made you feel Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: like you were a plaything. I didn't say it out loud yet, but as you were speaking it, they were like opposites. there's the Gemini moon. The duality of caretakers to caretakers, Viv: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: right? I called the third pillar the echo pillar. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: this Mercury Gemini third house opening sextile qualities have this echo Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: thing. And so it's Like they're echoing similar shit, but it's different at me. I'm two years old and I'm being asked to understand too much. And there's Viv: Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: the dissolving into the Jupiter, which Jupiter does have to do with concepts and making a world view. Viv: Mm-hmm. Right. Laurel Kassor: And you're at two years old, you were asked, you were asked to like fucking sacrifice one of the caretakers and opt and then enact, because there's the Chiron, enact, implement, practice. what the caretakers, but how are you gonna do that w t with both of them? You know? Viv: Right. Yeah. And my grandmother won out, like my mom, Laurel Kassor: Mm. Viv: like we'll get to it eventually. I think we put it down for us to talk about, but like my mom at like nine years old, I had a surgery, like I had tonsils, adenoids, and a cyst removed my throat or a tumor removed. And then my mom dropped me off after my surgery and just didn't come back. She had her own

apartment, like like two minutes down the road, and like would try to be a mom, but like my grandmother from there on out was my full caretaker. So it's like my mom was like peace out all the time. So Laurel Kassor: Mm. Mm. Mm. Well yeah, we're gonna definitely Viv: Ha ha ha. Laurel Kassor: That's how that's part of our next set of plot points, I think, actually, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: here. But I did Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: wanna mention, because it is really important, and obviously you've already been alluding to this. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: We just haven't named it yet, but the moon was in a waning quincunx to Pluto in Scorpio. This is Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: major major because this is A lot of pillar eight at once on a very Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: already pretty sensitive and vulnerable planet. So we have Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: the moon in Gemini the second making a pillar eight aspect to a pillar eight planet in a pillar eight Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: sign, right? This this is a very full stack. If it was in the eighth house, we'd have a we'd have a flush, basically, you know. Viv: Yeah. Yeah. I win. Laurel Kassor: we still do, because this Viv: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: energy introduced you. And I think Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: with a lot of what we've already picked and kind of pointed out and and offered up, it's not that hard to see how that energy would have required a alchemical process to metabolize. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: It would have also maybe felt very scary because, like, shit, apparently one of apparently caretakers can want you and not want you. So Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: what does that mean for me? It creates a fear, I think. of to a young child's brain around consistency Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: and what that means and that it can be destroyed and that and your Pluto is in the seventh Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: house. Therefore we do for the f pretty early get a pull in to the polarity pillar to pillar seven with by via that seventh house aspect and immediately says like depending on who you listen to or how you listen to them, which by the way, I think that listening is a function of the moon. Because when we Viv: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: care about people, we listen to them, right? That's one of the big Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: things. What a men and women fight about. I don't feel like you're listening to me. You know, it's a ver it's a and it's emotional. So anyway, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: so I do think that it be it could have become to the child's brain, how like if I depending on who I choose to listen to, might destroy Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: or threaten or create danger around not just whether I'm getting what I need to survive and Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: getting love and c and and care. but also the relationships, these agreements, are very The word finicky is actually what wants to come to mind, although it does feel like Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: it should be a heavier word than that in some extent, but Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: finicky is what wants to come forward. So that's the last one I wanted to talk about on this particular aspect. So before we jump into the next ones, any anything come up for you around that? Viv: I could definitely see the the finicky nature of it all. I like the word. It's good. Where Having to sit there as a a a very young child just trying to figure out who had the most authority. And like you you like have to sit there and think about what does authority mean to me? I don't know. I'm two, three, four, five. Like I have no idea. I'm just going based off of what the world's showing me. I'm going based off of what TV is showing me. I have no clue. And like the oldest person, I guess, the elder, you gotta listen to them. So I was like, clearly I have to listen to. my grandma more but then there were times where my mom's like well I'm your mom and then my grandma's like well I'm the one that takes care of her and it was just even from a very young age I was like I don't know what any of this means. I'm just gonna try to do me as best as I can but I couldn't. Which we would get to later on, but like until they both died six months apart, like I didn't even get that release of like who is Brittany? Well, who's Viv? Laurel Kassor: Mm. Viv: Well, I'm sure you guys like you know I use a pseudonym for my my business. But yeah, so like Viv is I was gonna share it later on, but I it honors my other grandmother who is also a psychic and medium and astrologer as well, so it's second generation. So that's why I use it. It's not like I'm trying to hide or anything, it's just legacy and whatnot. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: No, it's legacy, which a p which rolls right into the next set. It no, this is perfect, like 'cause you're rolling us right into this next set and you Jupiter in Cancer. And by the way, so this next set of planets, w odds are when I see them cluster like this, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: odds are pretty good you you aren't gonna be able to separate them so well in the memories Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: themselves because they're all very close together. But Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: Remember when you were a kid, years felt much longer. So they would have set felt maybe more like separate incidences, but looking back, it's like, that all happened around that time. So Viv: Right. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: So our next set, and it rolls into grandmothers and it rolls still into care. So we're really staying Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: on the same theme, but we're evolving what we're seeing Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: from it. So the next set of planets in your formative template setting years, we have Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: in your third house. So let's orient ourselves to our childhood education. Educational school age brain. We're Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: at ages between The planets themselves land at age five Viv: Yeah.

Laurel Kassor: through basically it looks like eight is where the planets hit. But remember these Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: do tend to be a little bit like spiraling little bubbles of events that Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: all correlate. Cause like you shared with us an exact event that I was like, holy crap, let's pick that apart and see how it's everything here. But also Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: there are probably multiple other things. That you could have Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: memories that you could have shared that would have hit all those marks because astrology is ever this multifaceted kaleidoscope ever turning, So Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: we have Ceres, Jupiter, Chiron, all in Cancer, Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: all retrograde, which means for sure they're gonna show up, but in a way that makes you go, huh? Interesting. and Viv: Yeah, no, it is Laurel Kassor: it's not technically a stellium in that they are not in close aspect, Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: but it is a stellium by sign. For sure. So Ceres shows up first. She shows up at right about age five. She activates Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: it will have obviously we we already know probably very much something to do with mom caretaking and learning Viv: Mm-hmm. Yep. Laurel Kassor: siblings potentially cousins potentially neighborhood potentially as other third house things but Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: it is very tight. look at your Ceres 444. I love that for her. it's really cute. That's my favorite four is my favorite number. Viv: It's cute. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: but she's opposite Uranus Like tightly opposite Uranus. So we Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: know this is going to be a disruptive moment in time. And then about age six almost exactly is Jupiter. And Jupiter's exact opposition to Saturn to Neptune to Venus in Capricorn. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: So we can as and remember everyone's retrograde down here in Cancer. So we can assume that this has to do with another very large polarization around authority and care. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: and a big we can imagine Neptune's involved too grief and loss. I'm gonna bet that's Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: when we have some of our first early losses. And then Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: about a year ish maybe plus a little more later is Chiron. And my hunch is that it's a little less about like, yeah, that's when they left me and they left me and they left me. Like this is probably more about you realizing I have to solve the care problem now for me. Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: and almost a little bit of that quasi-adultification or something we can say. But I would love to obviously not just speculate and hear from you. Viv: Yeah. Yeah, no, yeah, it brings up quite a few things. Like the first thing, my grandfather passed away when I was five Laurel Kassor: Mm. Viv: and I was the closest to him. And so wonderful, wonderful human being. Like his son was right on my north node. So it's like we it's great. And of course I'm like he was great, I was five. Everyone's great when you're five, but like we just we connected very well. He was also a Taurus moon, so I mean his moon was on my like my rising. So it's just we connected so well and Laurel Kassor: Was he like your safe person in that like I mean I can Viv: he was. Laurel Kassor: imagine baby baby Viv at that time, like Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: the other adults were not being very reliable or were being very intense. If Viv: No. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: he was like the soft heart. Viv: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: And like the lap you sat in, you know what I mean? Then I can totally see this being an a representative of him and in and you you mentioned like the Taurus thing, right? Like this is Ceres, this is Ceres, this is Pillar Two. This is about Viv: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: like, this is the one person who might be actually fucking consistent for me. Viv: Mm-hmm. And then passed away. And like the like you brought up cousins earlier and the the small thing that came up, which is really funny, was like my cousin was like I I'm very close with all of them, but she was so upset when I was born because I became the favorite grandchild to both my grandmother and my grandfather, and my grandmother's the one who took care of me. And my grandfather was like I was the apple of his eye type of thing. And even till this day, like it's still a thing. But you like I have my grandmother's wedding band, like, and my cousin's still mad about it. Like, side note, but like, yeah, but like Laurel Kassor: wow, yeah. Viv: since I was five, I've known that my cousin is upset, but like it's because my grandfather and my grandmother loved me like I was their own kid because they understood my mom kind of the fuck up of of like her siblings. So Laurel Kassor: Mm. Mm-hmm. Well that makes sense to me too for this grouping that we're seeing here, which is of course I mentioned Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: the retrograde planets are gonna come through usually in a way you don't Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: it's hard to predict because they Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: Well, that's right. They did do the thing, but they're doing it in a way that is forcing Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: a an alternative approach to the theme. You brought up owning the ring. Ceres is possessions. Straight up. Like Viv: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: she represents things and stuff and ownership. And so Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: it's interesting because this is obviously Ceres in Cancer and it's retrograde, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: and she's still retro, you're still mad about this. You're still Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: you still are in a mood about this. Like really, babe? Like it's just a thing, but it's obviously a sentimental. thing which brings our cancer Viv: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: and our family and then the cousin part is the third house, right? Filling in Viv: Yeah.

Yep. Laurel Kassor: it's like astrology is fucking plugging in like code, man. It's nuts. It's fucking nuts. It's Viv: It all the time. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: crazy town. But yeah, so that makes a lot of sense too, even even like still to this day being one of the themes, but being the favorite. Like also like I think that when it comes to Ceres, she creates a lot of various opportunities for learning for people. And one of the things that Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: she does bring is this sense of permanency, right? It's like Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: it's a we know it's an illusion. The the access she exists on reminds us. but Viv: Yeah. Right. Laurel Kassor: but it's interesting that that came through too with some of the the death stuff. And so this is fascinating for a couple of different reasons because did you say that was this a sudden loss? Viv: It was, yeah, he had a random Laurel Kassor: It was. Viv: heart attack right in the front of our house. So on the on the steps that he built, like he built our house, like he was a stonemason. It was like really ironic and like if we wanna but like Laurel Kassor: Shut the front Ironic or in the chart, bro, because like opposite Uranus in Capricorn on his own steps that like on the and it's Viv: Mm-hmm. And Laurel Kassor: air is in possession, his own steps, his own physical thing that he built brick by bri my god. Viv: Yeah. And Taurus Moon he he fell into a cactus. Like that he planted himself. Like it was just like it was like sitting on the step. He fell into it. And it's just it's one of those things where it's like I will never forget that day. Like I was with my Laurel Kassor: no. Viv: mom. Like my mom, like we were out at her friend's house and like we find out, well, she's actually getting a psychic reading that night. I forgot the woman's name, but like 'cause we're we're all we're like a woo-boo family, you know, so it's fine. but since my grandmother, my dad's side had already passed away, which is where I get my lineage from in that way for being like a psychic medium and doing all Laurel Kassor: Mm. Viv: of that stuff. my mom used to see her, but now s we used to see this other person and was like, Berta, you're about to get a phone call. And then my mom was like, That's weird. Like, no. Literally like twenty minutes later she gets a phone call from my grandmother that my grandfather passed away. We end up going back to the house and I kid you not, Like there was already 40 cars there, and I was like, How did this happen? We were like 10 minutes down the road. Like 40 cars were like already there, and I was like, Where what is happening? Are we having a party? Like I had no idea what the heck was going on. And like it is one of those things that I still remember in like so much detail where they tried to distract me, and then I remember eating an apple, and like I fell asleep, and that was pretty much about it. Laurel Kassor: Okay, it's so interesting that though this this is also what's blowing my mind about doing this work right now is like it's really interesting what people do remember. The little Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: details people do are do manage to atta like their attention attached to and plucked out Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: because Ceres has to do with food. Why is food the only thing why is the apple Viv: Right. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: the only thing that you're remembering here, right? About this specific memory that I'm like, this Viv: It's true. Laurel Kassor: energy around Things like food, which I didn't even name it as that, but like is part of the whole Torin thing, as we know. Viv: Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yep. Laurel Kassor: It's really wild. And it's also interesting too that you're bringing in all these cars. I just remember all these cars being here. This was in the third house. I didn't mention it because I just it just slipped my mind too, but but the cars and transportation, and I did mention neighborhoods are part of that Viv: Mm-hmm. Neighborhood, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: third house. And so it's like, wow, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: where did all these cars come from in our neighborhood? Like, what are they here for? And they were there to care. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Right, but i it was all very still confusing and s like Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: abrupt and disruptive and there's that Uranus, also there's something that's coming through about like learning the rules of of this. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: the Capricorn side of it. It's like, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: what Wait, and there is also, I gotta say, something else going on that's like almost buried Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: in there. But it comes from the psychic because to me it sounds like that psychic had a download and had a Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: sudden spark of something, relayed that that didn't change everything, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: but like immediately it did. And that Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: seems a little uranium too. Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: to me, like that getting that sudden burst of the insight delivered first. And then there being this like follow-up of weird whoa. And now I also want to something else. My fire hose is open. is Viv: You're good. You're good. You're good. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: it makes me wonder because I'm thinking about like the the the spectrum, I always have to think in that spectrum with the opposition because the opposition pulls in pillar seven. It pulls in Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: this idea of vows and bonds and agreements, etc. But I look at Ceres very much as a manifestation planet. And granted, I've said this before, all planets are manifestation. Like all planets are manifestation planets. I know, I know Viv: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: they are manifest. But when it comes to talking about like physical, tangible, dense, three-dimensional, sustained, condensed stuff, we're talking about this pillar too. We're talking

about Ceres. And so Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: I almost wonder in the in the kind of disruption of what happened is like you as a kid, If receiving the insight before receiving the news Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: had something to do with like, huh, there's some weird stuff that goes on Did they know that what's gonna happen? Because this is in the third house still. So there is something about learning going on. Viv: Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Now Uranus is actually in your eighth house still. So there's our death. There's because I was like looking at Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: this and I was like, Pluto's not actually being touched by this yet, but it doesn't matter. Pillar eight came in anyway. So Uranus, like sudden death. Viv: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: What are you gonna do? Like, how are you going to anchor to reality now that this is suddenly gone, how are you gonna start making sense out of that? Also it was literally a psychic pulling from the ethers telling you something was about to happen, something actually happened. So what does that mean about how we anchor into like what is real? And are words Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: enough to make something real? Are thoughts enough to make something real? I know that might not be exactly what you were saying, but it just wanted to come through. So I'm curious if anything for you is coming up around Yeah. Viv: Yeah, so like even as a kid I would kind of speak things into existence where like I have that claire cognizant where I just know things, don't know how I know it, just know. And then all the time I would have family and friends be like, How did you know that? And I would be like, this is gonna happen, so I don't wanna do this and then the thing happens and then they're like acting out about I'm like, why you had time to prepare. I knew this thing was gonna happen. And even at a young age I could do that. And it was the first time I saw that outside of myself. Where someone else could do the thing that I could do. Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Someone else did it. That's why I that's why. Thank you for saying that because that just connected the dot for like why I was like, why won't I stop talking about it? is the opposition. Other. You saw it reflected out in other. for the first time and it attached to a very significant event as well. So like so it again very multifaceted, multi-dimensional, which I do associate with outer planets. And I do associate like Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: I feel like once we hit Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, things get very multi We leave the 3D very much then. we head Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: into other spaces. So okay. I'm sorry for that loss and thank you for sharing. Jupiter was the next plot point here. So this is only a little bit Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: later. This is the exact opposition to Saturn and to Neptune and Capricorn in your ninth. This also reactivates the moon. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: So we're seeing the moon from

a different angle now. Your consciousness has changed, your awareness has changed, you have grown, but you're looking back at the moon and it's still making a dissolving aspect. But now you're Jupiter instead of the moon. Now you're Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: seeing through the concept, understanding, making sense. This could be religion too. There could be a lot of religious stuff going on. I know you had mentioned that as part of your story. I know we barely even touch any of the health stuff. It's funny, like Viv: Okay. Laurel Kassor: I and that's a big thing going on in the background through all of this, but I'm Viv: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: just throwing out a few different ideas there around some of this. and I wanna say that this also has a pillar eight tone to it because it pulls in Pluto. It Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: also pulls in Mars. So this could be a health thing too in you, in other people, but what was going on around that six, seven-ish? Viv: so definitely I don't think I mentioned it earlier, but English is not my first language, so it's Portuguese. So I had to go Laurel Kassor: Cool. Viv: through ESL growing up and I thought that I was just yeah, yeah. And I thought Laurel Kassor: third ho this full third house. Yeah. Viv: I was just dumb because I was like, why do I gotta get pulled out of class? And then they put me in an IEP program and then they realized that I don't need an IEP. They couldn't name it then, but now we know it's ADHD. And autism because they couldn't diagnose me because I'm obviously I have both, so they couldn't figure it out because it's only Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: a modern thing now where you can have both ADHD and autism. So I didn't Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: present in a way that they needed. So I was both in an IEP program and the gifted program at the same time. Laurel Kassor: mixed messages again this is a fuck this is I'm so sorry to cut in I know you're not even remotely finished with your story but like Viv: Mm. No, you're good. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: this is the echo to the moon right you see that right like holy shit Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: this is literally like what the fuck like like what duality Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: am I bros like can someone clear this up for Viv: Yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: me I Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: don't understand and the irony that you literally were in ESL at the same time of literally being like I d literally don't understand Viv: Mm-hmm. Of all of it, yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: And man. Viv: And like the the funniest part is is I remember this like it's was like the ESL aide. I was like I don't I don't get why I'm an ESL. I ha about the gifted program, I'm I have an IEP, like what's going on? And this she's probably no more than like maybe twenty five at the time. And you know, this is the nineties, so she's looking at me dead in my face. Little frickin' six year olds, seven year olds just like, well it's because you're smart, but

you're very slow. And I was I will never forget that. And I was like, that was the rudest shit. Like she's like, You're smart, but you're very slow. And just kept nodding at me. And then I was like, Okay, so what does that mean? Do you want me to run faster? Like and i the autism just didn't understand. And she was like, No, so you are a brilliant child. You're just kinda dumb. And I remember going home and I was like bawling my eyes out and my grandmother who doesn't understand English nuance because she speaks only Portuguese, I'm trying to tell her from little six-year-old freaking seven-year-old Lens and just never felt understood. I was like, I don't she's like, you're smart. I was like, I that's not what I okay. And it just like I feel like throughout most of my childhood I didn't have much of resolution when I tried to go say this happened at school because my grandmother didn't understand. She was born in 1930. Laurel Kassor: Mm. Viv: Like she did not get it type of thing. Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah. This makes so much sense with these placements. Everything Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: you just described, cause this is a Jupiter Saturn opposition here. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: it does have to do with these authorities saying you're slow. It's taking you too long to understand to make sense out Viv: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: of something because they're looking at a different way of scaffolding and scaffolding information. And you're Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: with these retrogrades again, processing them differently. Everyone with Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: retrograde planets processes them differently. Some of us have a bunch, some of us don't have that many. But these retrograde planets are saying that you're gonna process how to make sense. in different ways, but authority Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: is not going to understand that because they have a set way of doing it, especially Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: with like curriculums and regulations. And it's really about like what are the rules? Like the rules are saying that you're taking too long. And also you have Ceres Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: in the third house too. I feel like wherever Ceres is, she slows it down there because she's like, make it easy. We don't need to rush. It's not an area where we rush. It's an area where we root. She roots. Viv: Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: That's what she does. I feel like with having her in the third house, she was really rooting into like, wow, there's so much information. And Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: what's funny is like the audience doesn't know this because I'm gonna pull pull the veil a little bit behind the scenes here. But when I was writing up your introduction, I made the conscious decision to say a cornucopia of modes instead of listing them all out. Because you had Viv: I I love that Yeah. Laurel Kassor: listed them all out, and I was like, girl, that's too many for me to say on air right now. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: And I share that to say to Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: illustrate this point of like, no, there's you anchor in to understand Viv: Hm. Laurel Kassor: that there are many multiple ways to learn and to process information and to connect Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: dots together, which is the essence of the third house. It's the essence of these Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: planets in there. And it's also saying like, I don't have to hurry. I'm gonna instead make sure I have a deep rooted, careful. safe understanding, protected understanding, so that things can't be misinterpreted. And it's like Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: it sounds like it was in these early phases of learning and the school experience that some of that got obviously activated of in an uncomfortable way. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: But based on the work that you're doing now, we also know that it could have, and again, I say this as someone who with some similar r like retrograde planets, later in the game this comes in handy. Like because you also were learning how to Viv: It does. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: translate. And I feel like that's a feature of the third pillar of this echo pillar. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: And you were learning how to echo in many multiple different languages to multiple different Audiences at the same time. Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it I mean like we'll get to it when we get to that age, but like eventually it became my brain's going way too fast and I'm taking in information. Like as you can see, I have like so many certifications, I have twenty plus certifications and things. I triple majored and triple minored in college. My brain loves information. I love to learn, that's just how it is. But I for most of my childhood I thought I was dumb. I thought I couldn't do the things, I thought I'd never excel at school and then it wasn't that I was slow it was that I was taking in so much information and I needed to freaking pause in the way you were Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: teaching which is why when I became a teacher I emphasized a lot in learning styles. You have to sit there and realize not everyone's gonna learn the same way. And they in the 90s you know they taught us all the same way. Like we learned everything the same way. It didn't work for me. I went into middle school and high school and realized that works for me. There are different teachers, different modalities. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you it's so funny, we were sitting here, like we were yapping and yapping before we started recording about this topic, Viv: Okay, yeah. Laurel Kassor: There are so many different ways to understand astrology and the world around us. And it's like, why can't people Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: just see these multi fractal lenses and blah blah blah? And now here we are unpacking very much like where this energy almost like resisted in a sense. And it was like, no, fuck you. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: I feel like that's how we experience

retrograde planets a lot of the time. Like when we get to meet them, they they are Viv: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: resistant to whatever the external thing is in some way because Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: they're like, that is not it. That is not the process I'm going through. And I've got to find my own Viv: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: way through this process. And it's not gonna look like this. And so I think when we have retrograde Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: planets up top in our lived stories, it can feel even a little bit more crunchy than having them later, although that doesn't negate the crunch, you it's everything. Spectrums and individually Viv: Mm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: experience, But yeah, that I think very much relates to why you know so many modalities, the ways that you're able Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: to connect dots between them with people, and use that in your transformative work and really sit and be with these people as you partner, and there's our opposition the opposition is bringing in all of this Capricorn Stelly. up in the ninth house is literally looking at wisdom systems. It is literally like, Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: let me be become a master of various sacred studies that include both like a patron and a practitioner because there's the Venus in here too. So we are pulling in pillar seven and relationship. You know, you mentioned your relationship astrologer. So anyway, I know Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: we could keep poking at just even that placement but Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: this is where I feel like maybe there's a opportunity to talk a little bit more about some of the health things potentially, if that's part Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: of the story. But the next part of the cluster is Chiron, who shows Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: up at, and I mentioned about eight. And I said, this might to me looks like maybe the place where we're like, shit, we gotta figure this out. We gotta figure out this, how to create space. And that's another thing about just having this be a cancer stellium versus a Capricorn stellium. It's very much a conversation about holding space creating structures that can hold. softness, you know, and sensitivity Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: and vulnerability, but protect you but also progress you. It's like it's the work-life balance kind of vibe, right? We we Viv: Mm-hmm. No, yeah. Laurel Kassor: know this. So yeah, Chiron on deck, it's about age eight. It's retrograde still, so we're, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: you know, a little different. All of the same aspects that Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: Jupiter made, Chiron makes. So we're just we're basically playing rinse and repeat here, but with a lens Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: of fixing, of problem solving, of tweaking, adjusting here. So take it away, my friend. Viv: Yeah, so as I said before, is like I I had a surgery around this time. Like and I chose to go mute for three months after my surgery. And I just I liked the idea.

Like after my surgery I couldn't talk 'cause I had my tonsils, adenoids, and tumor removed. I couldn't talk, it hurt. And I just was like Not talking feels kind of cool. They everyone has to talk to me more. They have to like actually give me detailed explanations. yeah, like you have to actually and this is like part of the autism too, where it's like you have to be a lot more direct now. Okay. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: You went nonverbal later in life and that is something very interesting and retrogradey. Keep going. Viv: Yeah. And I was like I like this. I'm doing it. And I found so much peace in those three months that I did not feel again till I was like what twenty-six, twenty-seven. So it's like I was like, this is this is beautiful. can I have another surgery? I don't want to talk some more. And it was also third house here where I started school early. I forgot to mention that part. Like I started kindergarten and everything early. And Because I wasn't speaking, I was they didn't want me to go to school because I wasn't really participating, so I had to stay home. So they made me stay back, and it wasn't because like I wasn't doing the work, it was because I chose to be mute and I wanted to write everything down. And of course I'm a writer now, so like I love to write. They didn't want that. They want me to actually use my voice and they thought I was being insubordinate. So I was like, I had to stay back not Not because I didn't know the material, but because they thought I wasn't playing by their rules. So I repeated third grade. And the funny part about that is I started third grade that second time late because my mom took me on vacation and she didn't want to come home from New Jersey because we have famil Laurel Kassor: Shut the fuck up. Viv: like we have family in New Jersey, so I didn't start school until October. Laurel Kassor: my gosh, dude. Viv: And I already like I already knew the material. I felt like the master in the class and I was like this is dumb, but I was actually in the right age group now because I started school early. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: This is like really mind-blowing. There's so much in that story. I know I'm gonna not Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: even get to all of the significations that you just named, I gotta point out that the the the third house to the ninth house and the schooling to vacation axis there. Like literally, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Starting school early is really interesting. Getting on Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: track by being held back. this is exactly what I mean when I'm like these retrograde Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: planets do the thing, but they do it weird. And so it's so fascinating that I'm like, tell us about this fix it energy in your life. And Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: it showed up as literally fixing the academic discombobulations. It showed up with you Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: making the your own decisions like, no, this is how this motherfucker is gonna be for me now. Protecting yourself more. And it's this is all happening boom, boom, boom. this is several years where you were learning very intense formative lessons and plot points around rules, around authority, around care, around how you wanna be taking care of your shit, around learning and exchanging in the world. I really do view Chiron as a trial and error energy. It's where we do a lot of Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: adjusting in our life. And so it would be clear that at this time, which by the way again harkens back to that moon stuff, We already had in our awareness this idea of we might need to dissolve some of our ideas around care. okay, yeah, let's do that and actually put it into practice. What happens when we implement these ideas or these new ways of exchanging without some of those other things I say without because of the twelfth house quality of the waning semi happening Viv: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: in that story that you mentioned the surgery too. It does have to do with health, Chiron is this trine to Pluto. So while Jupiter Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: was making all these oppositions a year ago, or you were living in the focal point of the Jupiter stuff, and it was trine to Pluto. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: And it was like, okay, there is transformation that is happening here, but it's big and s and scary and what the fuck's going on. This is still like that, but we're a little bit more fine-tuned. And I think that's because and stick with me on this, that's because Chiron has a naturally more agreeable relationship with Pluto than Jupiter does. Viv: Mm. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Laurel Kassor: Naturally. Like very just Chiron and Pluto are like buds. The same way that I would say that the moon and Ceres are buds. I look at v at Pluto and Chiron as friends. They support Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: each other greatly. You know? If Pillar Viv: Yeah. I use them both in conjunction as well, so Laurel Kassor: it is like the field medic talking to the surgeon. You know? They're Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: like, We brought him in, here's what's wrong. Here's what we gave them already. Here's what we tried already. Here's how we stabilized Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: them. And then it's like, okay, I'm the doctor. I'm the healer. Here I'm Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: going to now tr you made them functional enough to be here. I'm gonna change them so they can ascend beyond the thing. You know what I mean? And so Viv: Yeah. Yep. Laurel Kassor: this is a nice thing for people born in our little like subset of generation here, that there Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: is different parts where Chiron and Pluto, since they're both relatively slow movers, kind of hung close together in a trine. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: but this is when that came online. And as a fellow haver of the Chiron Pluto Trine, what I have Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: observed it in others and in myself is that, learning the practical processes of alchemy, of how

do you actually move through the steps of transmutation? Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: The closing trine is got a pillar nine quality to it. So it has Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: like a Jupiter, Sagittarius, ninth house quality. So it's like, let me teach, let me teach that, I'm gonna teach that, let me teach that, let me teach it. So this Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: is also where that's coming online. And so it's really interesting to hear that this actually sounded like a time where things were moving a lot better for you. Not necessarily easy. But Viv: Yeah. No, yeah. Laurel Kassor: it sounds like, and if you notice, like the oppositions are no longer in play from Chiron at that time. So it's really the focus is not on Saturn's. polarity of rules or Neptune's confusion of the rules and what they fucking mean in the ninth house. Like literally Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: what does authority mean? You had mentioned that earlier, right? When we were talking about the like the the moon at two, this Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: that was something that would have been very live during this time. But when we're talking about this particular towards the end of that cluster of early schooling, that opposition is now not directly being felt in the present. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: And instead it the real focus is on the connection to the moon and the connection to Pluto over there. And so it's really like, yeah, no, I started to actually turn around some of those things around this point. So that's really cool too, which tells us you were Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: really practicing and honing and I'm think that masking might be a little part of what was being developed here too. But it's Viv: Yeah, I was just gonna say that. Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: clear that it was even if still difficult useful. It felt productive. It was like, finally, a way to protect myself. You Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: know, is how does that feel? Viv: Yeah, like it's I masked so hard all the time. And like I hid in school. When I realized I was good at school and I'm smart, that everyone were just like they're calling me slow. I'm like, no, you are the slow ones. I know information. I figured out how to do this. Like when I was mute, I was reading books, I was doing the things. I was like I realized I was like, I I am really smart and it was one of those things where it's like it's a little scary that I'm and like understanding concepts so fast. And that's when I started to actually speak a lot more. And then in school I'm volunteering more. I'm doing the thing. The leadership's coming in. And I'm like confident because like I'm smart. I'm confident this is a way I can mask because you think I'm smart. But I'm like, I know Laurel Kassor: Hmm. Viv: I'm smart. You think I'm smart. This is all cohesive. Now I can sit there and it's not like I needed to hear that I was smart. It was like I feel like I fit in now because I like I'm smart. Like I felt like I didn't fit in before. Laurel

Kassor: And that's on the moon. That is the coming back Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: to the moon thing. Like there are a couple of different things that you just completely named there. And and Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: both of them have to do with pillar three and four. Pillar three and four. And what we're dealing with what we're dealing with, what we're looking at here is this dissolving of some stuff that opened up when you were two, that left now, but it had to do with pillar four, the moon, and pillar three, Gemini. Connecting through that dissolution to Chiron, who is Pillar 6, and make it useful, make it practical, and it's actually put it into like application, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: but in Pillar four cancer, and in pillar three's house. So we have Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: this thing where there is this kind of cyllical protective shell. that by closing Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: down and emptying out and releasing this idea that like, you think I'm stupid. It provided the protection on one hand as part of the mask, which is again, Chiron is in a opening sextile to your ascendant, too, by the way. So there's something like like the communication, the information we learned Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: there and how we survive and navigate the world. But also, something that came through as you were sharing just now was that when you went mute, to me what what came through was fixing distractions. It's almost Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: like you were taking away what would distract people, on the retrogrades, by the way. So on the retrogrades. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Like That you withdrew also on the cancer. It's like the combo here. It's like that you withdrew these things, these processes into yourself, which also withdrew distraction, which I believe is something that has to do with pillar three and the echo pillar, right? And so when you took your own voice away as a distraction to other people from being caught up on whether you could get it or not, and kind of forced Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: them to assume that you would. then you did, you know, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: and then you were able to to focus, it feels very the Pluto coming in where it's like, well I'm gonna Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: take it to the fucking extreme which is gonna allow me to Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: really get immersed and be and kind of sink and do the transfer it's almost like you cocooned up, but just your voice. Yeah. Viv: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I I tend to do that a lot in my life. Like I it's even now I'll I'll go into shutdowns where I don't even realize I'm going mute just so I could understand something better or like I'm so overwhelmed and then when I realize maybe I was taking in too much information I'm like, Alright, now I gotta break it down and I feel like gotta go slow. I don't wanna go slow. Go fast. And it's just it's Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: it's it's even to this day. Like that time where I was mute

still happens now, but it's like it'll be where I'm in complete emotional overwhelm where it happens. Laurel Kassor: Mm. I totally. Viv: So it's like I that goes with the autistic shutdown. So it's like I when I was younger, I was actually like a meltdowner. Like I didn't know how to regulate the emotions. And then as I got older, it was like I did know how to regulate them. I studied how to have like like a high emotional like EQ. I studied how to have all the psychology behind things. I wanted to make sure I was emotionally balanced. I I reflected at a young age and was like I didn't like how that was like five, ten years ago. I'm going to figure out the psychology behind this. I'm gonna fix myself. I'm gonna make sure this doesn't bother me so that I can go help someone else. Attachment styles, don't know her anymore. Like, you know what I mean? Like, who's the like the fearful avoidant? Not Britney anymore. Like, so you know, like I can literally look back at those times where every few years I was like, gotta do this new transformation. Laurel Kassor: everything you just said is such a summary of what that early cluster of hitting your moon and then your three retrograde cancer planets were. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: up front it taught you everything Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: you just named to go inside to quiet the noise to listen to yourself Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: to get out of the distractions that you can slow down to do these things that you are smart about Having the regulation. so it's like it's such a perfect summary of what you learned. it's a really like the icing on the cake of that Chiron placement coming in to view here because Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: I know that at eight years old you were like, I'm gonna go learn the psychology. But at eight years old Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: you were probably like, I gotta understand this more. there's Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: gotta be something else is going on. Viv: Yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: You know, like that might have sparked up then, which is the connection to Pluto, which is the Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: trying to Pluto, which is saying, like, I'm gonna explore what's going on underneath the surface because like clearly I'm unwell, I'm not I don't like this this thing Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: that's going on with like how I feel unsafe and vulnerable does not feel good. So I'm going to withdraw within with my buddy Pluto over there, is gonna teach me a lot of things. They're gonna be kind of Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: scary, but like it's gonna make me safe. And I'm arming myself with information, which hello, you have your moon in Gemini. I look at the moon very Very much is like the emotional armor around us, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: right? So we're arming ourselves with information that we can rely on consistently Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: so we can regulate hello, pulling us back into the pillar two stuff I was saying about having that moon in the second house and how that connects to the Ceres in cancer placement Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: itself, because Ceres is like taking her cues from the moon, who is saying, like, if we're armed with information, you will be able to regulate. You just need to Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: learn it. Now stay in that third house and study. You know, it's like they're having the same conversation back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And so it's gonna be interesting as we head into the next phase because the next planet that falls. I'm really hesi- okay, hmm, let's try something different. I haven't done this yet Because it's not a planet, But the next spot on the chart is actually your south node. in previous episodes, I haven't been doing the nodes We're gonna try here though, because I'm feeling the call Viv: Mm-hmm. Sure. Laurel Kassor: It's a Leo South node, I look at it as if the north node is what we are importing. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: into our unique system of consciousness, then Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: the South Note is what you are. exporting from your system of consciousness. So it's not even necessarily like a bad - I know there's a lot of con there can be connotation around it about like, the South Note's scary and purgy and icky and yucky. It's Viv: Yeah. It's not. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: not and it's not. It's a byproduct. anyway, let's apply that same logic here to you. You would have been about nine years old. This is a South note. This is an export moment. now that doesn't mean it doesn't have anything to do with loss or or a removal of something because there is still this quality of something is leaving the system, right? But it is in Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Leo here and it's in the fifth house. So we actually have a little bit of a pillar stack here Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: because we have the fifth house and the sign Leo matching Viv: Uh-huh. Laurel Kassor: with each other. so this is gonna have something likely to do with fe a self-expression, d individual choice, Creativity, could be hobbies, games, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: sports. it could be directly father related somehow. and this does activate your son, who we actually haven't really met yet. Your your son placement, your Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: son and Scorpio, and your Mercury and Scorpio in the seventh house. So before we move on to the next one, I was just curious if there was anything around that time. Viv: Yeah, so it was a it was about the time where I realized like I really wanted attention, but not in the way of like I need everyone to pay attention to me. It was like, why aren't the people around me noticing me? Why do I feel like I'm not noticed like in school? Why is it that only adults and teachers really find me to be like I'm on their level and like I till this day I'm still friends with a lot of my middle school and high school teachers, like good friends like we text, we talk, whatever. Like I was friends with my mom's friends. Like, why

is it that adults see me but kids my own age don't? But then also my family doesn't see me and they're adults, so I don't get it. And it was me trying to figure out I don't need attention as in like everyone look at me. I need to just be noticed. Like, Laurel Kassor: Mm. Viv: are you being attentive to the fact that I have needs type of thing? Laurel Kassor: Interesting. Yeah, that fucking a hundred and ten percent tracks. I very much look at parts of pillar five as as it's about validation. It's about recognition, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: it's about being noticed, right? Like I like that how you phrased it like that because that is such a it's not a word I typically bring to this pillar, but I love it. It's so accurate because this is especially in like a South Node context, it Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: is like hello. What am I chopped liver? Like, like I I'm Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: I'm putting myself up up and out. D do Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: don't don't we love? Do we not love? Do we not accept? Do we not applaud? Like just notice me. Like Viv: Yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: it's brings in the squares. Now, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: it's really interesting because the technically these would be wa waxing squares. The nodes are so funny because they move the opposite direction of everything else all the time. Viv: They re yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: So the nodes are gonna keep going like that. So it's technically it's a waxing square that the sun and mercury are making here, which carries a pillar four undertone to it, which pulls us back to the moon territory and the cancer territory, pulls us back into the my family. Doesn't notice it has a rejection undertone. with Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: it. That tends to be the specific flavor I associate with this opening square aspect. And that has this like Where's my unconditional support? Like, why Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: don't I get and because there's a Leo and a solar? Because it's wow, it's like quite a stack because the sun's involved, right? So it's like, why am Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: I not being seen? And your son's in Scorpio. Like, this is Scorpio energy. So it can almost feel like stifled, buried. Like, what do I gotta do? Viv: Yeah. Right. Laurel Kassor: Again, what am I chop liver? Like, what does Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: a kid gotta do to by the Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: People who are supposed to notice you. Like there is the pillar Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: seven quality. So it is a relational thing to it. And you mentioned like a lot of the adults which I think is really interesting. And I think that like the Sun speaks to friends. And so it's like you're becoming friends with other people's friends, but the people who are supposed to see you are s you're still invisible to them, which again brings that Scorpio quality into it, where it's Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Laurel Kassor: like, hello, can you s like can you see me? It's not quite the same invisible quality of like Pillar 12, Neptune Pisces stuff. It's kind of more Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: like it wants to come through as like intentionally neglectful or might have felt intentionally neglectful, more than accidental Viv: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: or incidental, which is what I think the pillar twelve stuff wants to feel like. Does that make sense? Viv: Yeah, and like even from around that age, I w I mean probably a little bit younger, I actually started to caretake for my grandmother and my mom. So I didn't Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: have needs even from a young age and I was just like, so if I got sick or something and I was like, Hey, not feeling well, it was almost like, so you you got sick, so now you can't take care of us and like, now you can't do this thing, now you can't help us do this, so now you need attention and it was almost like a Ugh, now we have to help you. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Punishment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the manipulation, too. I would say Viv: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: of the of the undertones of the eighth pillar of that alchemical. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Unfortunately, and it was a bummer when I like really like it when it sank in. I was like, damn. it very Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: nature requires something to be evolved. in order Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: to understand that process. You don't come in as the Phoenix. No one does, that's part of Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: the whole undertone of that pillar is alchemy, which means inherently something is gonna feel wounded. And then be Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: asked to do that deep, deep, deep ca capital H healing work, everything you're describing about becoming the caretaker, that lands back through pillar four and the opening square that this represents here. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Cause even though this is in the fifth house technically, it has to do about choices, right? It has to do about self-expression, it has to do about validation, it has to do about being seen, but the quality between this what am I exporting? I'm exporting myself. my myself has to be of support. And I'm not Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: even being seen to be of support to these these obligations, these promises, of caretaking, which also is something inherently kind of confusing for you, based on the earlier experiences, where also I'm sure Viv: Yeah. Right. Laurel Kassor: it's would have reflected back over on itself many times, where even as you were caretaking for them, they probably each had their own different version of what caretaking for them the best way looked Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: like, which is going back again to this early moon stuff of like, well, I don't know how to fucking be a person because I'm getting a lot of mixed messages here. Mm-hmm. Viv: Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly. And like I remember bringing that up half of the time. They're like, What do you mean? You you should just and t like anticipating their needs. Like you should just know. Like,

what do you mean you don't know that I need this in this moment? Like and it came up later on in life where like I became that person who had the anticipatory like I I guess part of my attachment with others, Laurel Kassor: Mm. Viv: like in relationships, like I had to get rid of that. I made that part of me die after a while. I was like, nope, we're not doing that. That's not healthy. We're not gonna anticipate anyone's needs and I'm not gonna expect anyone else to do that either. Do I sometimes Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: fall into that thing where like I'm claire cognizant and I think other people should know what I need? Sometimes, but it's like it's not in the Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: I'm expecting you to know what my needs are. It is like the I just know these things. I forget that. Other people don't just know things. Whereas when Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: I was a kid, it was like this is an expectation and you should be able to read my mind, your mom's mind, like my your aunt, uncle, cousins, anyone, friends, families, why don't you know what your friends need? What you're what you need to be like every little thing was like, wow, I how am I supposed to just be a person? Like what does Britney need at this point? Laurel Kassor: Mm. Mm-hmm. And I I think that t totally checks out because it is like this uploading of and again, remember, all of this is coming through a nine basically a nine year old's perspective at this point Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: in time. So it's like b basically a nine year old is uploading their sense of self and confidence and validation Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: outside of themselves because the system can't handle it at this point right now. I mean, at any I mean, there is Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: I don't mean to like d derail myself. There's obviously very healthy expressions of all of these things. But when we're young, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: it's unlikely we're experiencing them at very high levels. And I think that Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: that is determined a lot by the environments that we're finding ourselves in too. And it's Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: all like we can get into the whole metaphysics of all of that, blah, blah, blah. But for for Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: now, in order for you to at this point in time. import Aquarius, detachment, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: the ability to see the bigger picture outside of oneself, different perspectives, contribution to the whole, I guess, and in this case we could say like the family Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: might have been considered that whole, right? That the self needed to be exported, right? Because the w the thing about the nodes Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: is even though I know we focused in pr pretty much just on the South one right now, it the it's always opposite the north. Always. Always, always Viv: Yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: in a tandem. So that's really interesting because then it's a long time after before there's another Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: planetary plot point. there. So what I've been noticing as these stories are being shared is that pretty much between one planetary plot point to the next, the person's living in a almost echo chamber of that a of the last plot point. Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: It's really bizarre, because it's like obviously other train like there's a bunch of millions of others of astrology techniques that we could apply to be like, well, what was going on in those between times? But it's weird to Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: see, like, yeah, and then nothing changed until and then they're naming the next planet. So really Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: interesting. I can imagine you spent most of your middle school and high school life. It would look like in that space. with those roles for various things Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: going on, but the next planet doesn't show up until about 24, 25, and it's Mars in Scorpio Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: in the sixth house. One thing I wanna note here is that in Soul A.R.C. Astrology we use Placidus. And in placidus system, your Libra is intercepted in the sixth house. My Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: the way that I think about that is that the context and the topics of the sixth house is where all Libra consciousness lives for you. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: You're not missing it, it's not not there, which I know are some of the like interpretations people have can sometimes have on in intercepted houses or intercepted signs is Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: that like it's hidden. It's you can't access it. It blah blah blah. No. You can very much access it, but it is accessible in that space and that space alone. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: So we can also know that in this time frame that we're talking about, there's probably been some relational stuff going on Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: too, around health, around tasks, around work, around usefulness, around being practical, trainings, etc., etc. So there's like a mixed. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: I know we're about to skip forward through many, many teenage years. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Here, so just curious what comes up for you around these time frames and these early 20s, what was going on in it relationally? Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Because this is shortly before we hit into some of the relational aspects here. Mars does Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: make connections to your Capricorn stellium that consists of Venus, Neptune, and Saturn, very tight, but Mars also makes trines to Ceres and Jupiter, too. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: So what's happening in our world? World. Viv: So in terms of relationships, by this point, I had already been through some pretty severe traumatic relational things in college. like it pretty bad. And I Tried to get through it as best as I could. And it was a lot of like sexual abuse, emotional abuse, that kind of thing. I was raped my freshman year of college. Like it just I was an RA in

college, so like I had that leadership part of me. Yeah! Like it's Laurel Kassor: Me too. Yeah. Viv: it was a fun time. I loved doing it. my RA helped that guy raped me. So like that was like a a fun thing, you know, like because they were frat brothers. So like Yeah, it's like it's it like and that's that Scorpio of me is like that's one of the least traumatic things in my life, okay. So like Laurel Kassor: I know, but it's and it's like I as an Aquarius moon person, like I can hold space for being detached and caring at the same time and but still it's Viv: Yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: like the human in me hears something for the first time. I'm like, you hurt my fucking friend, dude. Like what Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: the fuck? Viv: if it makes you feel any more anger, he's a psychologist for little kids in Boston, so Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: god, no. Ugh I mean I hate it. ugh Viv: So, I was dealing with a lot of those emotional I would say, like, whiplash I would have between like other relationships. I've had a lot of like in and out relationships, on and off relationships. And Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: it was more so like I I to talk about how it impacted me, it was like I When I feel something so intensely, like that's where like the the avoidant part of me came in. Like we were talking about attachment styles earlier. Like I was fearful avoidant and like, did I want to have that closeness? Did I want to have that nurturing part of relationship? Yes. Did I want to be loved? Yes. But like the second I started feeling like it from the other person is when I was like out the door but then like I love I like started to love like love them so I'd come back and it was like it's almost cyclical in a lot of my Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: relationships where it was that. So I had to work through a lot of that in steps over and over again. Laurel Kassor: Mars is in the sixth house. The sixth house has to do with the sixth Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: pillar, the sixth pillar has to do with refinement and attunement. So working things out again and again. This is very much a again, it's in a very close sextile to Venus, Saturn, and Neptune. And it's got a mixture of sextiles in it. On one hand, there are two waning sextiles. So Pillar 11 coded has a disruptive quality to it. And those are two Neptune Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: and Saturn. Neptune and Saturn. But there's also a Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: waxing sextile to Mars too. And that's from Venus in Capricorn. Right. And so Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: it's like as you're describing, there's a lot of different things. I'm sure this disruptive Pillar Eleven stuff was coming in via some of the chaos around the Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: connections, the electricity, the chemistry. I often Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: think that when Pillar 11 gets up in and you you're as a relationship specialist astrologer, you can maybe verify this. I personally feel that when Pillar 11 any of the variables gets into relationship stuff. It is a recipe for chemistry in the sparks flying Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: sort of way that also can lead to the chaos of destabilizing or sudden unexpected things. if any of the traumas that you experienced came via like, I can't believe that happened, I can't believe you did that. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: Suddenly and unexpectedly, that could be a little bit of the aspect itself coming through. The abuse itself is likely responding with the scorpionic. If also There is the trines that are activated too. And so remember, Ceres has to do with the body, right? This is Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: that's the Titus. Well, it's actually Mars right in the middle between Jupiter and the Ceres trines. So there's a lot going on have to do with a demonstration, right? Like the aspect between them has a five undertone, so that can be about you know, pillar five can have to do with dating and it can have to do with flirting and Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: expression and courtship. and whatnot, but this is also about like there being demonstrations of control over body and over what Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: anchors you and that's across not just the physical but that's across the emotional that's across the safety that's across the communication scale of also potentially Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: not feeling heard again, you know. So there's a lot of features already I just wanted to kind of pull out. Viv: Yeah. I think for me I had a hard time leaving those situations. It's the Scorpio in me and the Taurus in me where I'm just like, I'm gonna stick it out type of thing. If I'm with someone, I'm gonna stick it out. And I had to learn that the hard way. And I think that's where like I was initially an anxious attachment, and then I became anxious avoidant, It's almost like I could see that part of me and I thought it was a weakness and I was like, We do not attach like that, we do not stay, we're gonna go. And like that, it almost became like self-punishment a little bit. Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: And then I threw myself into working out all the time, all day, every day. I'm a personal trainer Laurel Kassor: Mars. Viv: and I love to lift. I don't like slow working out. Like, do I do the Pilates? Yes, I have EDS, like I have to do it for my body. I hate it. Laurel Kassor: It's funny it's that you say Viv: it's weird because to me I'm like Man, I like really struggle to get through Pilates and yoga. I'm like, ugh, I need to do it. I don't wanna. But like lifting, I'm like, I feel strong, moving my body, I'm doing the things. And I fell in love to the point where it became a compulsion. My OCD decided it wanted to to say hello for the millionth time in my life and was like, we're counting calories, we're barely eating, we're working out three to four times a day. Like I Am burning one, two, three thousand calories a day, and I'm like, guess who's super skinny? It's Brittany. She's great, she's accepted,

she's loved, and then that messed up all like I didn't say it before, but like I already had severe hormonal issues, and it messed it up even more to lead into like everything else later on where my endometriosis and PCOS fully develop, but my adrenal system. was fucked. Laurel Kassor: Wow. The this is obviously Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: probably where some of the medical astrology stuff came in for you too. I'm willing to bet. There's so many connections Viv: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It yep. Laurel Kassor: I'm already about to like pull in. So again, I was like, wow, this is like very like Ceres is activated again here. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: And by trine. So I was like, yeah, it's easy demonstration. Like you are giving us such a an incredible example of the way that shrines. can be also not that healthy, right? Like the the Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: what you're telling us is that this was a Mars period in your life and Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: it was in really objectively what we would call nice aspects to some of your other Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: planets. And And again, this is also probably a little bit on Ceres being retrograde, on Jupiter being retrograde, and then being involved Viv: Mm. Laurel Kassor: too. So it's like coming out a little wonky, a little different than you would expect, but it's still showing us that there is no disruption here. Nothing was Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: getting in the way of Mars calling the shots for the body at that time. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: The the opening shrine, which has the Leo, here I am. Look at me, validate me. Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Energy between them was so vibrantly online at this Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: time that you were going overboard. You're going overboard Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: with the f with the flow of the expression of the demonstration because you were feeling validated. Cause look at me. I am so good. I do look good. That's right. this is probably where medical astrology started to show up for you. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: And I think that is because of Jupiter. to help Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: you with the coping and the creating a space and creating an understanding for what was happening in your body via a means that you had already found valid expression in and valid understanding and helped you move forward in your life because even if you had found astrology, which I don't even know if you verbalize this on air, but in your intake form you mentioned it was an astrology book at age nine that got you going. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: age nine is also where that Leo export came. So it could be that astrology was part of the North Node activation at that time. The opposition is Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: like you had to maybe give some of yourself away at that time. But also you are finding out like there's a different perspective. Out there for us. I think that if we think back to like that time when you discovered astrology, it could also

hearken back to this understanding of like, I was using that even back Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: then to just make sense of some of the stuff I was going through. And this would have been like a another plot point spiraling off of there, plus Saturn. Saturn and Histellium were activated in the ninth house with Neptune. Viv: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: and Uranus, the astrology planet was activated too. So yeah, I'll I'll all floor is yours. Floor is yours. Viv: No, you're good. Yeah. Like Mercury retrograde doing its thing. I don't know if it's gonna mess you up. But like I realized that was actually a typo was seven instead of nine, which is like I don't know if that messes you up. So like that's the funny part. It merc Yeah. Yeah, Mercury just doing its thing, Laurel Kassor: so that was like no, that doesn't mess me up. That actually made more sense. It made more sense. I was like maybe nine was the South Node thing. That's why I brought up the South Node thing. Yeah, no, but it makes sense. Why? Viv: you know? Mercury retrograde. But yeah, I realized I was like, no, yeah. Seven. Yeah. So Laurel Kassor: So it really was right at that fucking Jupiter moment. Which makes it make even more in sense that astrology is when you would have had that interpretive aha moment of like, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: there's a way to interpret the world. Viv: Yeah, and like I was reading magazines from a young age. I've read like a vice columns. I was reading horoscopes from a young age. Taught myself astrology from a young age, reading the books, you know? And by the time I was in like my early to mid twenties, I was like, what kind of astrology do I wanna do? And it was more so like, I'm gonna treat this as self help. Like, let's go into medical. I learned about evolutionary too because they're so like they're closely related. They really are a lot of people don't believe it but I'm like if you sat there and you looked at the undertones of it they are so like related because you're looking at the psychological part you're looking at the physical part and you can't look at one without the other you really can't so like that's where like Pluto but chully got its birth around that time is like the thought process of it Laurel Kassor: It makes sense because this is Mars hearkening backward because like when we are as we get older and we're at different experiential points, we are looking back at some part of our other experiences. And completing the aspect in some way, right? We're bringing Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: some part of that aspect into completion. So if you were a child and you're like, whoa, astrology is neat. This is a cool thing I'm learning. What a big world out there Viv: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: to interpret. And then it's at this point in time where you're like, I found my you my specialty, my Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: thing that I'm going to practice, which is again the sixth house, right? This is again. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: Mars being like self-help, like Mars being like, well, what am I gonna do? Self-help is so Mars in the sixth house. I'm sorry, Viv: Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: you can't tell me you can't tell me otherwise, right? Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: And having that be in a shrine to Jupiter at that time, but Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: also to Ceres, who I think was like it anchored it in for you. But Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: then you mentioned evolutionary astrology and Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: hello. This is Pillar Eight. That evolutionary astrology is an alchemical branch of astrology, because it is very heavy on Pluto. It is very heavy on like that evolutionary process, which is qu very th much the alchemy. So it's super on the nose in many ways. And it's so Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: cool that this and I know I'm like really talking about like the the these cancer planets a little bit more than those Capricorn planets, but they're there, they're happening, they I'm sure they brought in mentors, studies, probably Viv: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: f some maybe even our first clients. th Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: did you find that to be part of that time period as well? Viv: Yeah, so like I had been studying a lot on my own for many years as I said, like since I was a kid and then I watched a lot of YouTube as we did and I started I got a a lot of mentorships from some like I'm not someone and this is like the Scorpio in me is like I'm not naming names, but like there are some like prominent astrologers where like I hadn't Like they were my mentors and did the things. And this is obviously the ninth house or in me where it's like I never felt like I was good enough. So like I kept going through different astrology, like boot camps, programs, like academies, all of this. And I'm like, every single time I'm wasting money because I already know the information. I would get so frustrated that here I am spending thousands of dollars on books, on mentorships, on all of this, and I'm like, I already know it. I like I I had learned this stuff like many years prior. I'm like, cool, you taught me a new way to look at this. Great, I got a new lens, I refined my lens. Yay! And I can take some of that and how I learn and how I can teach others, but like the fundamentals already knew it. And I did that, not even kidding, for maybe a decade before I was like, I'm ready now, I can do it. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: I can relate so hard to that to that Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: part of the journey Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: yeah yeah It's so cool because your Mars falls in the sixth house would align Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: with my six pillar system that does have to do with refinement. And when I was taught this method that I use on the show I remember my professor being like, yeah, this is, the age when you're an intern. And I was like, my God, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: yeah. Huh. Where you're learning the craft. you know? your Mars is objectively well

aspected. That doesn't mean it's not got its own stuff to modulate Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: But it sounds like a period that brought you a lot of information that was disruptive Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: and other other opportunities to learn about validation and et cetera et cetera. And it's important to remember, I think that Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: using this method that I use and this approach that I use, I really do zoom out and see the whole chart as a it's a lifelong story. We do do not know all the ends of it until the ends of of Viv: Mm-hmm. Right. Laurel Kassor: it. You know, so it's like the stuff that isn't Resolved feeling all the way yet, it doesn't mean it never will be. It doesn't mean that we're not Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: coming into more processes that come full circle later on, you know. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: So this is kind of where we're we land the plane here, and it is a chunk of planets, so you can kind of let the story unfold there. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Is Pluto, the Sun, and Mercury. They are In a loose conjunction, I would say, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: by my eyes here, the first planet is to fall in after Mars is Pluto, and that's about twenty-seven, twenty-eight. And Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: then just a couple years later, let's call it 30 in this bubble. There's a bubble of like a couple years in the late Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: 20s, early 30s, which just so happens to align with your Saturn return. This is in the seventh house now, so this is definitely Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: edged into the relationship sector. This Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: is after you have made some progress in deciding your own areas and specialties. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: This is going to hearken back to the moon in Gemini. So our first formative moment. This is the other side of the waning quincunx. So at this point in Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: time, something was destroyed, annihilated. Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: transformed, healed all of the above in various ways when it comes to some of these very, very, very early consistency of care ideas and opinions and experiences. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: This is also when the trine to Chiron comes back online very focally from Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: the side of Pluto, who is all about like, hell yeah, we transformed via process. Fuck yeah. So that's nice. We can assume because you're still here and you're kicking and everything. And then also the Saturn gang up in Capricorn in the ninth Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: was also activated via a waxing sextile here. So Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: there's some there's a lot of learning involved, there Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: networking involved, information, messaging, writing. You mentioned writing. all of this pillar three stuff is definitely how the writing is all coming Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: in. So that happened and then shortly after we have the sun and Mercury also come online and I'm sure you'll

naturally talk Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: yourself there. Viv: Yeah, so like I guess I'll go in subjects. So like relationally, Laurel Kassor: No. Viv: mid-20s, almost got engaged, really loved the guy. He was in the military. Laurel Kassor: T Viv: He went and got deployed and you know, dear John happened. So like great. Was awesome. it crushed me for years and years. my mom also I got the letter a week before my mom died. And my grandmother, he was already you know, he was there when my grandmother like died six months earlier. So like I I attached Laurel Kassor: no, no. Viv: the emotion of my grandmother and my mom into losing him because he was the only tangible person there. There was that. So I had to deal with that emotionally a few years later. I do get engaged, but he wanted to keep it a secret because he's a Pisces. and then that relationship just kinda like imploded on itself because I got sick. My pancreas decided it wanted to give out on me because when you work your body that much and you already have hormonal issues, the pancreas regulates a lot of your hormones and your adrenals. So like two lesser degrees of each other and I kind of had this idiopathic thing for a while where doctors were like, we don't know what's wrong, but your pancreas stu is digesting itself from the inside. And it was extremely painful. I was in the hospital for like 11 days, multiple holidays, kept going in and out of the hospital, lived in and out of the hospital for many years. Meanwhile, Mr. Pisces man would throw my pill bottle at me with my pain medication and just be like, can you just stop crying already? like it was just like Really just not a fun time. I mean he's an eighth houser, so I get his perspective of it. He was like, I wanna marry you, but I don't wanna tell people that we wanna get married. We're engaged. I had to buy my own engagement ring. and like it was just a clusterfuck of a few years of my life where I'm like, what? What was wrong with me like sitting here into this situation? And like, I mean, hindsight, 2020. But at the time, I was like, but I love him. But but like I love him, but then yeah, Laurel Kassor: Hmm. But Daddy, I love him. Viv: but then eventually, like the universe kind of just shows me, hey, you gotta move on. And I did. And it's like that Scorpio in me where like light went off and I was like, Hey bye. Laurel Kassor: Yeah. Viv: And didn't think about him again. Like I was just like, okay, good. We got a cat out of it and I got her. So she's she's wonderful. She loves my now like boyfriend and whatnot. So like that's beautiful. But like my health gave out. And he was just there for the beginning of it. And he was like, I don't wanna marry someone who's sick, that's not what I signed up for. And it's something that I'm gonna have for the rest of my life because it's one of my five autoimmune diseases. And like I have type two autoimmune pancreatitis. It took many years, Neptune on my ruling planet. Well, I mean I consider it Venus, but like I understand now I'm probably gonna try to add Ceres into the mix too, but like Neptune definitely is illusion and it's trying to find what the answer is there, and like I have multiple rare diseases, so that's the kind of funny part where it takes a long time to diagnose, but like I have three on my own just for my pancreas. So that's fun. Like I have a rare type of diabetes because of my pancreas, because of the damage to my pancreas. so it's not like I'm diabetic, but my my body treats myself like it's like I'm diabetic, even though I'm not. so again. messes with my hormones, PCOS like whatnot. And like a big thing I've been dealing with since 2022 when I had my endometriosis surgery. My last one at least is like my body immediately started gaining weight. Immediately. 80 pounds in three months. Laurel Kassor: Wow. Viv: And for someone who's a personal trainer, like it was it the worst thing. Like I was already losing my sense of self a lot because I was like, who who am I? What is this? I just moved to Ohio at the time and picked up my whole life to go be with my now partner. And this is very, very early 2022 and I am just like I don't I don't know any everything's new and everything's Fucked up at the same time. And since then, it has been my relationship, my health, and astrology. That's been my life. Like it it that Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: that's been it. Like I've could barely work in what I do. It's like my body gives out. I've gotten laid off a couple of times in between too Like it has been ridiculous, and the worst thing is that. My health has taught me one thing where it's like it it it's always gonna be there and that's something I had to accept where I'm I'm chronically ill and it was always going to happen whether I sped it up because I worked myself out to oblivion or not, it was Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Viv: always going to happen. I see my chart, I did medical astrology, it was going to happen no matter what. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: I was just eyeballing that sixth house cusp is Chiron, whose mythology is forever in process of mending. Yeah. Viv: Yeah. And it's like my relationship to myself, my body keeps changing because I keep losing the same like 50 pounds every few months and then gaining it back again. But it's like my doctor, she's just like, you are an anomaly because I'm eating the same thing. I'm not doing anything different. I'm working out. I'm doing all the things. But like my body will be like our hormones want to be high this time. So we're just gonna we're gonna be gaining weight. And like chic and like Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Gosh, this is it's so this retrograde Ceres is ruling the chart to me in cancer. Like yeah. Viv: So We finally figured it out actually like last month. So yeah. Thanks. So yeah. Laurel Kassor: Shut up. Congratulations! This is huge! Viv: So like my body, like having Laurel Kassor: That's awesome. Viv: having EDS, which is like side note to everyone out

here who has autism EDHD, we're like sixty percent more likely to have it. So please just if you're bendy, if you're bendy, if you can do the things, check it out because you're more likely to have EDS and With that, comes a lot of health issues, and for me, hormones were like one big facet of it. And for my body, any little medication or any little thing that's inputted into my body, it can be coffee, it can be like anything in the world, and my body has a hyper reaction to it. So when we were looking at my labs, we're like everything looks good in this area, but when we started treating it as this is like slightly under normal, and started treating those as Like this is largely a problem, is when my body started to actively get better. So we put me on a new injection. It's a peptide, it's called KPV, and it helps with autoimmune conditions and inflammation. Inflammation drives a lot of autoimmune conditions. That's helping. We put me on progesterone to help countereact the endometriosis and PCOS. that's happening in such a way where like weight loss is happening, I guess. and whatnot because my body's just like, yeah, I'll be we've been waiting for this the whole time. We're just waiting for to figure it out. Because Laurel Kassor: Mm. Viv: my progesterone, it looks horrible on paper. But like it's off by like a couple of like what we say like points or whatever it is, like by little interviews. Laurel Kassor: The it's so it's so fucking pillar six coded everything you're saying right now. Like it really Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: is about these micros. The smallest, the tinies, Viv: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: the tweakings, the adjustings, the just a little to the left, a little to the right, and like finding the perfect fix, right? Like that, Viv: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: it's so steeped. in this essence and in this energy, it's really, really, really fascinating. I think it really speaks to this whole time period is activating various pieces of the yod to the moon. Right, right. Because even though Viv: Yeah, right, yeah. Laurel Kassor: we're not explicitly talking about like the Saturnian, Neptunian stuff up in Capricorn, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: this whole area is very much about the transformation. It's about the Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: The the act of healing, the process that any Scorpio areas of our life exist inside of, right? Like that's where they happen. Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: It's like that's where the healings. Not that there is enough constant healing going on. There is, but I'm saying Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: like when you're living inside of your Scorpio bubbles of time, walking yourself through the chart, you know, it's Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: going to be this relationship to your healing process. And your relationship to your identity and your relationship to your relationships Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: for you specifically, as all this is in the seventh house. And it's really cool opportunity. I know

that you're a relational astrologer. You shared with Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: us about some of the lived reasons why that might make sense for you to be a relational astrologer in your lived relationships, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: but you're also really demonstrating for us that pillar seven. Venus, Libra, the seventh house, the opposition, they are not just about the relationship to other. They're also just Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: about the vows and the promises and the ways that you relate to yourself. And the ways that in your case, obviously, the ways you can relate to your body, which translates to the ways that you personally relate to other people. It's all very, Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: and I know, like as an astrologer, you know, it's all very symbolic for itself, you know? Viv: Right, yeah. And like you know, when you look at the seventh house and you know it's also the house of open enemies, it's like how are you an open enemy to yourself? Because a lot of people I don't see talking about that. You think about opposition with other people out there who really don't like you, but do you actually like yourself? And that's been things that I've been working on is like I can be in a smaller body, which I was six months ago, but then I'm in a phase where my body is starting to gain weight again, and I'm learning to love my body no matter what size I am in. Whether I am an extra small or I'm an extra large, I'm still Britney, I'm still Viv at the end of the day. And you know what? I am on a phase now where like I'm going back down. So I mean that's also a thing because we figured out the health piece and the relational part that's like I feel like we're in a TV. show. So here, if you wanna know, I will be getting married at some point. that is gonna be happening. I I found the person that I love and he is great. He is literally like all of the Taurus and Virgo Capricorn that he is balances my chart. and he has some Scorpio on there so it's like his Jupiter's literally on my Sun Like, you know Jupiter is the husband. It's ve it's very literal. It's very literal like husband on your Sun like Laurel Kassor: Is Viv: My his Venus and Sun are like literally on my rising. So like it's just it's Yeah. Laurel Kassor: This is cute as button placements. Viv: Yeah. So like we're good. We're happy. I know there's a lot of people out there I'm a Scorpio. I get it. A lot of shit happens to us. But You will find your person. You just you gotta work on yourself while you're doing it. Cause the most triggering frickin' thing is if you're gonna run. Because you think that it's hard because you finally feel safe. And like that's the thing is like trying to stay in a situation where you're like, I don't like this feeling. Sometimes it's not because something's really fucked up in the moment. It's wow, I finally can breathe. I finally feel safe. This is really foreign to me. And then you work on your relational skills with your partner and you're like, how do we do this? How do we navigate this? Because you too are going through the same thing and it brings you closer together because you're like wow we're safe for the first time in our lives this is so exciting this is my best friend you know like it it sounds so mushy and cliche but it it really is the truth Laurel Kassor: I fucking love w everything that you just said. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: I couldn't agree more. But it also sparked in me this idea of, I haven't pointed it out, even though I kept meaning to. I guess now is my moment, whatever. you kept mentioning the attachment styles. attachment is something I really associate with a little bit of Ceres, honestly. it's a pillar seven topic, but I think Viv: I do too actually, so yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: that it has a lot of Ceres coding inside Viv: Yep. Laurel Kassor: I love it it's always Viv: you. Laurel Kassor: so rewarding when we like kind of catch up to the current and everyone's like, everything's going so well now. Like everything, we're figuring it Viv: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: all out. And it's like such a testament to exactly what I'm hoping to illustrate with these episodes. I want to point out that you were born into this world codependent on a substance. Viv: Yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: Hello, you were literally brought into this world with an attachment struggle. Straight like, and that's on that ace, that's on that Taurus AC, and that dirt Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: that connection to that moon, this journey has been started with you codependent to a thing. There's sort of it began with an attachment It moved into a very confusing, like who do I actually attach to? I don't know, man. Which moved into a myself, I guess I attach to myself. I don't know. And Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: then that moved into, okay, if I wanna have healthy relationships, I gotta stay attached. To myself some more. But other people Viv: Yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: now have to be involved. And then it's Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: moved into this, this beautiful, like you've unpacked and understood. And that's on that pillar three being involved with all this shit too. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Like we literally learned about attachment. We learned about anchoring. We learned about why. And then via your in your interactions and your knowledge of care and Like nurture and nourishment are all like tied together, actually, But it's really cool to see the ways that you through the process of living your life gave yourself the knowledge, gave yourself the expertise, Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: have been practicing so much of this stuff specifically basically since like eight, have been walking this road of taking many multi-fast. faceted ideas, translating them into something usable and fucking functional that can then Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: be applied directly as Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: a salve to the wound again and again and again across multiple dimensions of your life,

including your own relational status, not just with other people, but with yourself too, and how that has expanded to your body being the literal representative Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: agent. Of of you in so many ways, Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: which again makes sense to your chart ruler. Ceres in cancer. Like the avatar Viv: Yeah, yeah. Laurel Kassor: that represents you in your own chart, right? for And I was like, holy shit, what a fucking cool ass narrative. You really are made for this work. Viv: I try. I I mean like then now I'm trying to get all of us lovely astrologers into a little little faction if you s call it. I I started something called Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: Yeah, tell us more about that. Tell us more about the work that you do now and everything. What's it like to work with you? What are you working on? Viv: Yeah, so my business is called Pluto and Patchouli because you know, Pluto deals with all of the facets of, you know, trauma, but it can also be psychology. There's the sex part of it, you know, which is like the psychological sex aspect, but power and control and all of that. And patchoule is also like an herb where it is Rejuvenative. It it also is just like Scorpio, where it's transformational. So I thought being the literal person that I am, I put the Pluto and the patchouli together as like this is what it is, but here's the salve for it. So you want Laurel Kassor: Mm. Viv: to come to me and I'm gonna walk you through all of your Pluto Chiron darkness right there, and I'm gonna hold that flashlight with you, and I'm gonna hand you that patchouli, and you're gonna do it yourself. Like I don't want to be the one to sit there and tell you we're gonna be realizing things together. We're going to sit there, we're gonna figure things out, and you're gonna have someone on your own team. Sometimes you're not even on your own team yet, and we gotta figure that out. And I feel like I've gone through a vast array of things in my life where like I'm not really shocked when people say things in front of me. I'm like, all right, I know how to handle this. Let's go, let's let's learn it, let's figure this out together, let's figure out what's stopping you. Let's go. So I do that in like coaching and whatnot, but I also do some astrology readings. I do some birth chart readings, which is fun. I'm probably gonna try to do some electional astrology, even though you know for like the last like six months I've been like saying how much I hate it, but now like seeing things transpire in my life, I'm like, man, it all makes sense. I love it. So I might be incorporating that into some of my relationship readings and like if people want to do electional now that I'm a pro at it for doing it for myself. For like, for like... Laurel Kassor: We are always our own guinea pig. Viv: Yeah, trying to find like the best wedding date and all of that. So I'm an herbalist. I also am a past life specialist. I'm a past life regression therapist. I do a lot of these things. Some of it in person, like you'd have to be in Rhode Island or like someplace in New England for me to do some of the things with you, but a lot of it I can do virtually. I'm a Reiki master. I love doing energetic stuff. I mean I have a moon in my second house for God's sakes. Like I I like to do a lot of lot of things but now I started my own group of collective astrologers where we're all coming together and you know if you've watched Grey's Anatomy which I do love and private practice I was like I wanna do this I want that but for astrology and I'm gonna get my friends and we're gonna have a practice and we're gonna have our own Clinical trials, we're gonna have our own time to do podcasting, we're gonna have our own writing, we are going to do everything you could possibly have under one umbrella, but everyone still has their own autonomy, everyone still has their own business, but we can share stuff, we can invite other people to bring in new conversations, and it's about us being millennials, being the literal change agents that we came here to be with Pluto and Scorpio sitting here saying, 'How are we going to contribute to astrology?' We've learned from our forefathers, that's how we became astrologers ourselves. But how do we now train the next generation? So, yeah. Laurel Kassor: Yay I'm so excited to have been invited to be part of this collective as well. Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: It's been it's 'cause that's been on my heart. For years, for years Viv: Yeah. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: and years and years, this idea of how do we preserve this study after us? Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: And I know that's something that the other astrologers before us have also been concerned about. And it's lucky for them, they got us. You know? But Viv: Right. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: it's like, okay, how do we ensure that there is integrity? Because unlike previous generations of astrologers, They weren't infested with pop astrology the way we are infested with it today. And now not Viv: Right. Laurel Kassor: saying that there wasn't pop astrology, there definitely was Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: But today it with the social media, there's a lot more Viv: different. Laurel Kassor: room for misunderstanding and for misinterpretation on a scale that is and we were talking about this before we started recording, but like objectively incorrect information. You know, there's just Viv: Yeah. Yeah. Really. Laurel Kassor: some stuff where in no system is that true, Viv: Yeah, Laurel Kassor: And so I'm really so just in love with the idea of having this collective come together and be able to exchange and be part of the, you know, I've been calling it like the ushers of the new era, And that's how I really feel Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: about so many of my friends that I've met in the recent months is like, wow, we really were all kind of preparing separately to come Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: together in some way to like be this new generation of experts. it just feels like this is like what the other Viv: Not only grass. Laurel Kassor: side of the Saturn return looks like. Viv: Saturn matures at thirty-five, so like it's around Yeah, yeah, so it's around Yeah. Laurel Kassor: I'm thirty five. So this is why I'm like, I'm like, wow, it really feels like it's Viv: yeah. Laurel Kassor: my gosh. Britviv! I could talk to you all day. I really could Viv: Yeah Yeah me too. It's fun. Laurel Kassor: Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for sharing your story. It was so Fun to you know, it was so fun to hear your traumas. Thank you so much for that. No, but it is Viv: Yay. Yeah, so it's five. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: so much fun to like walk through the chart to hear your story, to understand more about like not just the work you do, but how you were literally trained by life to do it, and how you took Viv: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurel Kassor: what can be extremely challenging situations Viv: Mm-hmm. Laurel Kassor: and experiences, and really chose to make something useful. useful out of them and make something like really to be proud of, you know. Yeah. So thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah, of course. Where Viv: Yeah. Thank you, I appreciate that. Well no problem. Thanks for having me. I loved being on here. Laurel Kassor: can we find you on the socials? How can people contact you? Viv: Yeah, I got rid of TikTok a while back when everyone else did in February. So I'm just pretty much on threads and Instagram. Links to all of my other stuff, my blog, all of that, are in My bio, So you can definitely go there. I'm I'm active on threads for the most part. I do go on little hiatuses like I am right now where it's like sometimes, as we know, I need to go mute. So I do that. Do not be alarmed Laurel Kassor: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Viv: if you don't see me posting for a week or two or if I'm liking things here and there, getting back to you late. I was in a mute phase, I am sorry. Laurel Kassor: That's funny and it just so accurate of the chart, just so like this the still Viv: Yeah. Laurel Kassor: if this episode sparked curiosity in you about your own birth chart, I'd love to support you. You'll find readings and resources on my website, soularcastrology.com you can yap with me on threads at astro underscore Aries or stalk me on Instagram at soularc underscore astrology. But best of all, you can watch this podcast on YouTube. Don't forget to stay in orbit by subscribing. Leave us a comment to let us know what's landing, and of course, sprinkle some stardust on us. By sharing this podcast with the Astro Hoes in your life. Until next time, Seekers ad astra Yay! Viv: That was fun.