บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Kel Interview: Overcoming Stigmas

Lorain and then from Lorain I went to Lake Erie and then from Lake Erie I went to Grafton Right. 00:05:56.341 --> 00:06:03.851 But what I wanted to say, as I was listening to you when we met in the county right, this is a true story. 00:06:03.851 --> 00:06:05.591 Anybody that knows me for real knows that I'm a real private county. 00:06:05.591 --> 00:06:06.026 Right, this is a true story. 00:06:06.026 --> 00:06:08.548 Anybody that knows me for real knows that I'm a real private person, right. 00:06:08.548 --> 00:06:24.071 So when you said the whole thing about I became like a big brother and everything I normally don't do that right, like when you're in the county and you see somebody else, at that point it's every man for themselves. 00:06:24.071 --> 00:06:25.795 Facts, facts. 00:06:25.815 --> 00:06:31.928 Facts, because you ain't trying to have nobody's problems become yours, and I think I talked about it in another episode. 00:06:31.928 --> 00:06:33.223 Like prison, snitches is real. 00:06:33.223 --> 00:06:36.043 There's dudes in there that'll listen to all your stories. 00:06:36.043 --> 00:06:38.348 Get close and go talk to their lawyer like all right. 00:06:38.348 --> 00:06:39.269 Yeah, I got the scoop. 00:06:40.952 --> 00:06:46.901 Yeah, get me. 00:06:46.901 --> 00:06:47.547 Yeah, get me out of here. 00:06:47.547 --> 00:06:49.019 I got some information for you, but I don't know what it was about you. 00:06:49.019 --> 00:06:50.225 I think it was. 00:06:50.225 --> 00:07:03.641 I think we played a game of chess and as we were playing a game of chess, I was listening to you and one of the things that I picked up about you was that, alright, the young man got a good head on his shoulders. 00:07:03.641 --> 00:07:10.341 So as long as I know that you're young man, got a good head on his shoulders, so as long as I know that you're somebody that has a good head on your shoulders, I'll talk to you. 00:07:10.341 --> 00:07:13.826 And in the process of listening to you, I'm like, all right. 00:07:13.826 --> 00:07:21.987 And then that's what opened up the door for us to even start talking in the first place, because if he was one of them other ones, I'd have just kept it moving. 00:07:23.081 --> 00:07:26.850 Yeah, we call them crash dummies for anybody who don't know. 00:07:26.850 --> 00:07:30.341 County jail full of crash dummies. 00:07:30.341 --> 00:07:31.607 Dudes that I mean. 00:07:31.607 --> 00:07:34.442 To be honest, it's just so boring in there. 00:07:34.442 --> 00:07:38.149 And then you're dealing with this loss of freedom so you're angry. 00:07:38.149 --> 00:07:41.706 I literally know dudes that would go get in a fight because they was bored. 00:07:41.706 --> 00:07:51.848 They would go steal somebody's stuff brazenly, broad daylight no sneaking about it just because they want somebody to come find them, or they, you know, flood these toilets. 00:07:53.334 --> 00:07:59.045 Try to flush their whole blanket down their toilet so the COs would come in

there with the riot gear, like it's. 00:07:59.045 --> 00:08:08.887 You definitely got to be careful who you hit your cart to in the county man or in prison in general, because it's easy to let somebody in and it's hard to get somebody out. 00:08:10.492 --> 00:08:10.992 That's the fact. 00:08:10.992 --> 00:08:22.267 Once they're in your business, oh my God, they feel like they're entitled to you, to your presence, your energy, and at some point it's actually better to just not know anybody. 00:08:22.267 --> 00:08:24.713 Just keep to yourself, that's the best way. 00:08:24.713 --> 00:08:45.749 Yeah, but the other part, when he was talking about our moms listen, true story I was speaking with my mom the other day and she was asking about your mom, and I just go to show like our moms have been like a true catalyst between us, because I just kept thinking, think about it. 00:08:45.749 --> 00:08:56.673 I'm like if our moms didn't keep in contact, I don't know if we would have kept in contact, because once you went your direction and I went my direction, our communication stopped. 00:08:56.673 --> 00:09:01.409 But we were always in contact with our, with our mothers, and they were always dropping. 00:09:01.429 --> 00:09:01.791 That hit. 00:09:01.791 --> 00:09:05.070 You know, yeah, someone still asked about you. 00:09:05.070 --> 00:09:05.326 You want to know where you at. 00:09:05.326 --> 00:09:05.970 You know, yeah, someone still asks about you. 00:09:05.970 --> 00:09:06.539 You want to know where you at. 00:09:06.539 --> 00:09:08.490 You know someone still asks about you. 00:09:08.490 --> 00:09:13.986 And it just kept that whole communication going and then we ran into each other again. 00:09:13.986 --> 00:09:20.205 It was just like like we never left each other because we were always still connected somewhere. 00:09:21.147 --> 00:09:28.159 Yeah, and I remember too, like um, reaching out to my mom, and I had reached out to you a few times. 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:30.485 Like I said, we talked back and forth a few times. 00:09:30.485 --> 00:09:35.224 But when I say a few times, we're talking about maybe three times over. 00:09:35.224 --> 00:09:38.629 At that point, like what, six years, five, six years? 00:09:38.629 --> 00:09:45.311 So you know it was hey, just basically acknowledging you still exist, hope, everything cool. 00:09:45.311 --> 00:09:53.947 You know, basically, you know, by that time I worked from like oh, this, you know I'm fresh, I ain't never been to adult prison. 00:09:53.947 --> 00:09:58.366 I'm moving now, I'm in my own lane, I got my own stuff going. 00:09:58.366 --> 00:10:01.500 So I'm like I ain't really looking out for nobody, like if I seen, I seen. 00:10:01.500 --> 00:10:03.620 Looking out for nobody, like if I seen him, I seen him. 00:10:03.620 --> 00:10:12.139 But um, when it actually even when it, um, even when you actually did come, it was a while until we were in the same block. 00:10:12.139 --> 00:10:18.389 But when we were in the same block it was like it was basically like county again, like the comfort level. 00:10:18.389 --> 00:10:27.480 You know we been together, you know that's my brother. 00:10:28.023 --> 00:10:30.428 Yeah, and I appreciated that, and that's where. 00:10:30.428 --> 00:10:31.451 That's where. 00:10:31.451 --> 00:10:32.133 That is where I did, too. 00:10:32.133 --> 00:10:33.797 You know, I'm very. 00:10:33.797 --> 00:10:35.221 It was in the process of all that. 00:10:35.221 --> 00:10:38.227 We became family, though, and that is. 00:10:38.227 --> 00:10:40.321 That's the rarity in prison within itself. 00:10:40.321 --> 00:10:43.365 All right, I look at you like my little bro. 00:10:44.027 --> 00:11:04.250 I'm telling you, even the fact that we knew each other from county really don't matter too much, because what we're talking about here is we're talking about the fact that, yeah, we know each other. 00:11:04.250 --> 00:11:06.443 But even then I knew dudes. 00:11:06.443 --> 00:11:14.206 Well, I came across dudes that I had met throughout my life, whether it was high school, middle school, whatever and they come up to me hey, what's up, bro? 00:11:14.206 --> 00:11:15.244 And I'm like nigga, I don't know. 00:11:15.244 --> 00:11:22.412 You Like calm down, because for real I don't know what you off into and I don't want your problems to become my problems. 00:11:22.412 --> 00:11:29.889 But when we had linked up again, it was like dang, like finally somebody I can trust to talk about stuff with. 00:11:29.929 --> 00:11:36.010 You know, stuff going on that you don't really get a chance to acknowledge and give the proper attention to because you ain't got nobody to talk to. 00:11:36.010 --> 00:11:40.912 You cannot I don't care what nobody say go down to mental health, talk to nobody out there. 00:11:40.912 --> 00:11:47.360 You know you can't just meet nobody and just get to opening up out there. 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:48.923 You know you, you can't just meet nobody and just get to opening up. 00:11:48.923 --> 00:12:02.366 So finally, when it's stuff going on at home and all this, you like damn, bro, like pull the box out, let's talk, because otherwise you would just keep it in and you know you ain't really working on yourself otherwise, you know that's a fact. 00:12:02.668 --> 00:12:35.629 So so you remember, um, we were at Grafton and we were in the back day room and I think I was getting ready to leave um and be released, but before I was explaining to you how I built my credit up, you know, um, and essentially just started rebuilding everything, that conversation that we had I never talked to anybody else about just on the basis of it was like, oh all, right, so in the end prison is that right? 00:12:35.629 --> 00:12:36.711 It does. 00:12:36.711 --> 00:12:38.235 I hate every minute of it. 00:12:38.235 --> 00:12:48.225 But, as you know, I'm one of those people to where it's like, if I have to be here, I, by the decisions that I made, that brought

me here. 00:12:48.225 --> 00:12:52.306 If I have to be here, I have to make this count for something. 00:12:54.639 --> 00:13:02.528 And so while I was in there, you know, took the credit classes and you know all the programming and everything. 00:13:02.528 --> 00:13:06.605 But just on the side, you know, I pretty much figured out how to. 00:13:06.605 --> 00:13:17.554 Since I had family support sending me money to put on the books that I can get to be what I need, I figured out a way to do my credit off of it. 00:13:17.554 --> 00:13:36.196 And then I shared that information with you because I'm, like my ideology, became a person that's returning home to society needs to have a good credit score right, because with that you're able to purchase a vehicle which is your reliable transportation to get more from work. 00:13:36.797 --> 00:13:42.288 You know you're trying to get a house or somebody. 00:13:42.288 --> 00:13:43.089 That's for substance. 00:13:43.089 --> 00:13:51.280 You don't want to live in the hood if you're trying to get away from the nonsense, but if you got a poor credit score, poor employment and poor transportation, your options are limited. 00:13:51.280 --> 00:13:54.835 And so once I realized that it just so away from the nonsense, but if you got a poor credit score, poor employment and poor transportation, your options are limited. 00:13:54.835 --> 00:14:00.761 Once I realized that, it just so happened that I figured that out around the time that we linked up in Grafton. 00:14:00.761 --> 00:14:06.984 I was sharing that information with you because I wanted you to succeed. 00:14:06.984 --> 00:14:08.068 You know what I mean. 00:14:09.254 --> 00:14:11.745 And I appreciate that too, because I actually did put that to good know what I mean. 00:14:11.745 --> 00:14:14.234 And I appreciate that too, cause I actually did put that to good use. 00:14:14.234 --> 00:14:23.203 I mean between you and my cousin when I came home he actually did like credit repair and stuff, but I mean between the two of y'all putting that seed. 00:14:23.203 --> 00:14:25.783 I instantly started working on my credit. 00:14:25.783 --> 00:14:30.881 I didn't really have the time to get to it while I was in there, cause I got out like what Nine months after you or something. 00:14:30.881 --> 00:14:46.565 But when I get out I was like straight to it and I mean within the first year I was well up into the you know, the 700s, mid 700s, like. 00:14:46.565 --> 00:14:52.399 If you in there and you can, if you got the support on the outside to help you start building credit as soon as possible, throw you on some of the trade lines if they're responsible with them. 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:55.879 It matters, and for your kids too. 00:14:55.879 --> 00:15:06.143 For your kids it matters more than you think for you to have a lengthy credit and I appreciate that, bro, I thank you. 00:15:07.144 --> 00:15:08.288 For sure, for sure. 00:15:08.288 --> 00:15:23.123 But that just goes back to

the journey of incarceration in comparison to the ideology in prison is you don't get close to people, you don't talk to people, you keep to yourself. 00:15:23.123 --> 00:15:29.866 But then there are those little gems, those little moments when people cross your path and it's just like you know what. 00:15:29.866 --> 00:15:31.188 They're all big mistakes. 00:15:31.188 --> 00:15:32.419 Anybody got a story. 00:15:32.419 --> 00:15:39.243 But there are still civil people, you know, that have just made a mistake. 00:15:39.243 --> 00:15:45.384 That's the reality of, and this is my opinion, that's the reality of prison, right, don't get me wrong. 00:15:45.384 --> 00:15:49.722 There are some messed up people, right, that deserve to actually be behind bars. 00:15:49.722 --> 00:15:52.902 Right, I agree with that 100%. 00:15:52.902 --> 00:15:57.985 And then there are people, good people, that just make a mistake, right? 00:15:59.168 --> 00:16:09.341 Yeah, I met some of the smartest, most talented people that I ever met in my life in prison, like facts for real. 00:16:09.341 --> 00:16:41.264 Like like facts for real and um, I learned some of the most valuable lessons in my life from people in prison, you know, um, which is why I like doing this because I like giving that um firsthand account, like people still in prison, people have come home from prison like share your experience, because really, society just paints us as we're a bunch of people behind a fence, working out and ready to come out here and reoffend, like just all we waiting for is a chance to make a victim out of somebody. 00:16:41.264 --> 00:16:55.581 Right, you know, and that's really not the case, like it's really not Sometimes, most of the time, yeah, Most of the time, most of the time and, truth be told, all right. 00:16:55.640 --> 00:17:01.125 So this is just, you know, just being forthright and open for a second. 00:17:01.125 --> 00:17:29.741 So you know, I had got out and the whole credit thing I was talking about, everything was perfect, got out, bought cars, bought houses, started businesses, everything was going great, right, and then everything blew up in my face Self-inflicted, of course, because at the core of it all, one of the things that I did not address was my emotional baggage. 00:17:29.741 --> 00:17:36.836 Right, and, like you had said earlier, we don't talk to mental health. 00:17:36.836 --> 00:17:41.484 People don't talk to you as males. 00:17:41.484 --> 00:17:44.009 Right, we're taught to be like these strong people. 00:17:44.009 --> 00:18:00.916 I can handle it, right, um, but mental health is a real thing and I hadn't come to grips with my emotional baggage and, as a result, you know, I ended up getting into an altercation and ended up coming back Not proud of it. 00:18:01.178 --> 00:18:06.288 But it was at that moment in life that I just kind of said you know what I'm tired. 00:18:06.288 --> 00:18:12.890 So you know, I come home, everything is great, I'm doing good,

and then, boom, here I am. 00:18:12.890 --> 00:18:14.894 I come home, everything is great, I'm doing good, and then boom, here I am. 00:18:14.894 --> 00:18:15.635 I said this has to stop. 00:18:15.635 --> 00:18:21.269 So one of the things that I had to break out of was that adage of we don't talk to mental health. 00:18:21.269 --> 00:18:26.547 I finally had to just embrace it and say you know what, hey, I need some mental health, I need some help. 00:18:27.836 --> 00:18:31.066 There are people that want to go to mental health in prison. 00:18:32.817 --> 00:18:47.342 I ain't going to lie man, I would have loved to have gone over to mental health and gotten help, but in prison it seems like even in medical, nobody's looking out for you as an inmate, even the medical professionals. 00:18:47.342 --> 00:18:49.241 It's really us against them. 00:18:49.241 --> 00:18:52.784 It's not always unjustified. 00:18:52.784 --> 00:18:56.571 I mean, like we said, there's some people that's in there and they did something wrong. 00:18:56.571 --> 00:19:02.202 They're trying to get back on their feet and learn from it, and it's other people in there that are straight scumbags. 00:19:02.202 --> 00:19:03.205 They're trying to get over. 00:19:04.515 --> 00:19:11.778 So yeah, when you go to mental health, when you go to medical, first thing they do is think oh, you're just trying to get some drugs, you're just trying to. 00:19:11.778 --> 00:19:20.670 You know you're trying to get on the mental health caseload so you can get some drugs, get some SSI, finesse the system, you know, which really makes it hard for the people. 00:19:20.670 --> 00:19:30.920 That's like yo, I need help in there, tell them a bunch of personal stuff and then had a CO back on the block with all your information. 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:42.287 You know, like all this privileged personal information, and because the CO has to be in the medical wing, he done heard all of it, or they done talked about it. 00:19:42.287 --> 00:19:44.781 He done came back, told another CO. 00:19:44.781 --> 00:19:46.461 Now you looking like boo-boo. 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:47.738 You know You're like what the fuck? 00:19:47.738 --> 00:19:50.506 Why did I even go down there and they ain't help me? 00:19:50.506 --> 00:19:58.145 They ain't help me anyway and it's weird because the inmate wants to get on the caseload. 00:19:58.145 --> 00:20:02.935 The inmate wants to get on the caseload so they can get medication, they can get SSI. 00:20:02.935 --> 00:20:14.309 Whatever the staff side, they either don't want to give you medication or they're like fuck it, but I'm on a case, so so like you fighting, but you don't even know which way you going, they like all right, we'll give you some medication. 00:20:14.309 --> 00:20:16.538 You like, nah, I don't, I don't think I need that. 00:20:16.538 --> 00:20:20.864 Next thing, you know you walking around like a zombie cause they didn't put you on all this. 00:20:20.864 --> 00:20:27.865 You

know craziness, back from taking meds, psych meds, in prison. 00:20:29.548 --> 00:20:30.450 They tried to give it to him. 00:20:30.450 --> 00:20:32.663 I don't want the medication. 00:20:33.156 --> 00:20:37.103 It's real hard trying to fight that battle man of. 00:20:37.103 --> 00:20:41.676 I need to talk to somebody, I need some help, but I can't trust the system. 00:20:41.676 --> 00:20:58.064 And then when you get out, unfortunately you got that residual like I can't trust the system when really you should be going to try to find some mental health, whether it's just a simple therapist, whether it is some type of medication to help with anything. 00:20:58.064 --> 00:21:01.483 You got going on depression, anxiety, whatever. 00:21:01.483 --> 00:21:08.532 But I mean, after going through the system, you're like I ain't taking that shit, I don't need nobody, I ain't messing with y'all. 00:21:08.532 --> 00:21:09.336 And really when you first get out, that's the time them. 00:21:09.336 --> 00:21:10.596 You like I ain't taking that shit, I don't need nobody, I I ain't messing with y'all. 00:21:10.566 --> 00:21:19.026 And really when you first get out, that's the time, that's the best time to seek mental health, uh treatment, because it's basically all covered by the state. 00:21:19.026 --> 00:21:29.102 So for anybody listening, if you need that help, like reach out, especially once you get out, because you know nine times out of ten you didn't get that help inside. 00:21:29.102 --> 00:21:31.694 Get, especially once you get out, because you know nine times out of ten you didn't get that help inside. 00:21:31.694 --> 00:21:47.647 Get that help when you get out, man, and not just for getting on the caseload, not just for getting SSI and trying to finesse the system, but really try to work through your demons and your baggage so you can move on. 00:21:47.647 --> 00:21:50.553 So I'm guessing that's what you did, right? 00:21:50.593 --> 00:21:51.294 Yeah, go ahead so you can move on. 00:21:51.294 --> 00:21:51.775 Can I give a disclaimer? 00:21:51.775 --> 00:21:54.403 I'm guessing that's what you did right yeah, go ahead. 00:21:55.154 --> 00:22:03.076 I'm going to give a disclaimer to all that are listening right, get out of your own way, right, meaning? 00:22:03.076 --> 00:22:06.965 I know we have the stereotype of males to. 00:22:06.965 --> 00:22:10.541 You know, we're men, we can handle our problems. 00:22:10.541 --> 00:22:14.503 Sometimes we can't, and it's okay to admit that we can't. 00:22:14.503 --> 00:22:20.645 None of us are, you know, just that strong that we can just do it on our own. 00:22:20.645 --> 00:22:21.567 It's impossible. 00:22:21.567 --> 00:22:27.440 And my advice is, you know, don't let our pride get in the way, don't let your ego get in the way. 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.588 You know, accept the help because in the end, it's let your ego get in the way. 00:22:30.588 --> 00:22:30.770 You know. 00:22:30.770 --> 00:22:33.383 Accept the help because in the end, it's only going to make you better. 00:22:33.383 --> 00:22:41.482 And I'm speaking that from experience, because I was that person that let my ego get in the way all the time and saying you know I'm not going, I got it. 00:22:41.482 --> 00:22:44.223 I don't need anybody telling me what to do, I'll figure it out. 00:22:44.223 --> 00:22:46.298 Just do it. 00:22:46.298 --> 00:22:49.279 You know it's going to help. 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:51.185 Get the help. 00:22:51.185 --> 00:22:52.662 It's okay, get the help. 00:22:54.773 --> 00:22:57.942 Yeah, that is not a sign of weakness or nothing. 00:22:57.942 --> 00:22:59.967 Man, go ahead. 00:22:59.967 --> 00:23:26.825 It's cool to lean on people, man, ask for help, admit when you're not okay, because the baggage that you got going on, and you know another stereotype of us man is we are, we want to be leaders, so we trying to go and lead somebody else's life and we still ain't got rid of all this baggage and stuff that we carrying around. 00:23:26.825 --> 00:23:30.240 Like you, you, you about to mess somebody else's life up. 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:30.921 You know. 00:23:30.921 --> 00:23:33.548 Yeah, that's that's great. 00:23:33.548 --> 00:23:39.363 Uh, that's a great disclaimer, because one of the questions I had was what is one of the hardest lessons that you've learned over the years? 00:23:39.363 --> 00:23:40.701 And that fits perfectly. 00:23:40.701 --> 00:23:43.724 So, uh, to to piggyback, though. 00:23:43.724 --> 00:23:44.627 Like what? 00:23:44.627 --> 00:23:50.707 What is some good advice that you would give, like a younger you or somebody fresh coming into the system now, at a young age? 00:23:54.096 --> 00:23:55.603 If they're coming in the system right now. 00:23:55.603 --> 00:24:06.258 You know, fresh out, I mean fresh in you know the first thing that I would tell them don't try to rush into getting to know people. 00:24:06.258 --> 00:24:12.251 Settle into the reality of where you are right. 00:24:12.251 --> 00:24:17.345 You know there's that mythology that you know you got to click up there. 00:24:17.345 --> 00:24:21.624 You know that there's strength in numbers, there's strength in individuality. 00:24:21.624 --> 00:24:23.996 That's where the strength is right. 00:24:23.996 --> 00:24:25.657 That's the first piece of advice. 00:24:26.118 --> 00:24:38.192 Second piece of advice I would give them is just I know there's the cliche of why is it that everybody that goes to prison finds God. 00:24:38.192 --> 00:24:41.545 If they really wanted to find God and all this stuff, they would have done that on the street. 00:24:41.545 --> 00:24:44.563 My response to that is it is what it is. 00:24:44.563 --> 00:25:00.278 However, you find them, whenever you find them, wherever you find them, just find something that's going to bring some sort of stability, some sort of higher accountability that can begin to set some sort of path in your life, though. 00:25:00.278 --> 00:25:13.865

Um, next thing I would tell them the hardest thing for us to do is admit that we were wrong or did something right. 00:25:13.865 --> 00:25:16.689 Um, acceptance. 00:25:16.689 --> 00:25:20.602 You know we got to accept the reality of it is what it is. 00:25:20.602 --> 00:25:22.386 I'm here, you know. 00:25:22.386 --> 00:25:26.285 I understand there are some innocent people that are locked up. 00:25:26.285 --> 00:25:31.240 And then there's the reality that we've all done something to end up where we are. 00:25:34.946 --> 00:25:38.752 Next thing aggressively set a plan. 00:25:38.752 --> 00:25:53.048 You know, don't let the time you know just be wasteful, right whether it be go get some education or get some mental health, or get some mental health, go get some vocational programming. 00:25:53.048 --> 00:25:55.241 If you don't have a GED, go get your GED. 00:25:55.241 --> 00:26:10.048 Go do something productive, because if you just come in without some sort of plan and you just waste that time, that just channels to when you get out as well. 00:26:10.048 --> 00:26:18.269 Now you've done nothing in here here, you've done nothing out there, but if you progress in here, it'll transfer out there. 00:26:18.269 --> 00:26:29.402 Now will it be an easy transition with everything that you've done as far as per se, your mental health and programming and self-awareness and just getting yourself together? 00:26:29.402 --> 00:26:38.066 It's not going to be easy, but you are a thousand steps ahead when you do return. 00:26:38.066 --> 00:26:41.525 You have one minute remaining. 00:26:42.615 --> 00:26:47.041 By going ahead and taking advantage of the resources than you would if you didn't. 00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:57.221 I used to say that all the time, man, if you wait until your release to start working on yourself, you're way far behind. 00:26:57.221 --> 00:26:59.701 You're bound to fail for real. 00:26:59.701 --> 00:27:03.141 If you wait until you get out, oh, I'm going to get my shit together when I get out. 00:27:03.141 --> 00:27:04.279 No, it's too late, bro. 00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:06.121 I'll see you back on the next bit. 00:27:06.121 --> 00:27:12.460 I got in an argument with administration about stuff that I would not do. 00:27:12.460 --> 00:27:20.422 That they wanted me to do because I was like yo, I'm working on myself, and they had a hard time accepting that. 00:27:20.422 --> 00:27:21.305 But that's all right. 00:27:21.305 --> 00:27:24.959 They accepted it in the end and I think it worked out. 00:27:26.862 --> 00:27:35.426 So here's a reality that I do want to share, right about the prison system itself. 00:27:35.426 --> 00:27:46.153 The reality is, if you think about the prison system, you think about staff, right, those that work here in the institution. 00:27:46.153 --> 00:27:53.071 Their job security is based on the actual incarceration of men and women. 00:27:53.071 --> 00:28:22.236 So there's a double-edged sword of saying, yes, they're here to help

you and then the other side is they're here to destroy you, because if they actually help fix, actually help fix a population of individuals that society considers miscreant and detrimental to society, but if they actually fix that percentage of people, then that means that they would be out of a job. 00:28:22.829 --> 00:28:25.036 Oh yeah, they're going to work themselves out into unemployment. 00:28:26.560 --> 00:28:26.961 Exactly. 00:28:26.961 --> 00:28:30.835 That is a general consensus that people have to be really aware of. 00:28:30.835 --> 00:28:40.953 Yes, they're hired to help us, but they really don't want to help us, because now you have to realize that this is their likelihood, right, that's the reality of it. 00:28:40.953 --> 00:29:05.631 However, that's why you, as an individual, have to take it upon yourself to fix yourself Right, and what I was about to say earlier was the minute that they see you actually trying to fix yourself and like really truly committed Not all of them, but you have some staff then they'll buy into you trying to fix yourself Right. 00:29:05.631 --> 00:29:09.659 Then they really make the resources available to you. 00:29:09.659 --> 00:29:10.721 That's right. 00:29:11.742 --> 00:29:33.653 On this incarceration that I'm on right now um, I came in during covid and so there was nothing going on, but when I got here, it was like I started making my plan, and the first thing that I said that I want to do is I want to get into the barber school, I want to get into some type of educational program in exactly where I said earlier, and so I had signed up. 00:29:33.653 --> 00:29:37.135 Even though the stuff wasn't even available yet, I still signed up for it. 00:29:37.135 --> 00:29:51.006 I signed up for the barber college and, you know, through the powers that be the sanctions that were on for COVID, as far as the no movement and things of that nature. 00:29:51.006 --> 00:29:53.096 That stuff was lifted. 00:29:53.096 --> 00:29:58.049 And when they lifted that, that made it available for us to be able to go to school and everything. 00:29:58.049 --> 00:30:06.380 And as soon as they opened it up, as soon as they opened it up, I was able to get into the first class in Barber School. 00:30:06.380 --> 00:30:12.497 I completed Barber College Great and I knew I was getting ready to complete Bar college. 00:30:12.497 --> 00:30:13.539 I had signed up for college. 00:30:14.624 --> 00:30:33.758 So as I finished up barber school, I got into uh business administration in order to get my associates in business got that and because of the field that I pretty much isolated myself, that I wanted to work in, I knew that I needed to take, you know, dot training. 00:30:33.758 --> 00:30:35.182 I needed to take OSHA training. 00:30:35.182 --> 00:30:38.299 So I went ahead and did that and got my certifications and those. 00:30:38.299 --> 00:30:53.633 So, but the more that I did those things, the more that my case managers and unit managers were like hey, you know, we see, you know on your or as or, we see you doing x, y and z. 00:30:53.633 --> 00:30:56.981 You know you can also do this next thing. 00:30:56.981 --> 00:31:05.676 You know I was signed up with uh, the us department of agriculture, to take um green literacy programming. 00:31:05.717 --> 00:31:11.724 So you have to take those necessary steps to fix yourself. 00:31:11.724 --> 00:31:13.713 Now that's just from the programming side. 00:31:13.713 --> 00:31:18.134 But, as I mentioned, I finally gave in and said I need some mental health help. 00:31:18.134 --> 00:31:24.973 So I reached out to the mental health people and, fortunately enough, I met a good counselor and I was able to talk to him. 00:31:24.973 --> 00:31:30.044 And I was able to talk to them and I was able to get some things off my chest that I had been carrying all my life. 00:31:30.044 --> 00:31:50.739 And you know now, once you complete all those steps, you've set up a recipe for success so that when those doors do finally open up, that's saying that it's the perfect science or recipe, but at least you are a thousand steps ahead for success than I would have been had I just did nothing. 00:31:52.431 --> 00:31:53.476 Yeah, that's great. 00:31:53.476 --> 00:31:59.221 And you're right, man, about the staff. 00:31:59.221 --> 00:32:01.278 They're not buying into your dream. 00:32:01.278 --> 00:32:10.343 They've seen a million people come through them doors and try to sell a dream, so they're not buying in until your actions say, man, you're really trying to change. 00:32:10.343 --> 00:32:15.643 And it's not just one program, two programs, but like the whole way you move got to change. 00:32:15.643 --> 00:32:18.880 Every priority that you got got to shift. 00:32:19.369 --> 00:32:21.657 You know, I remember when that happened for me. 00:32:21.657 --> 00:32:26.458 I remember trying to get into what was it? 00:32:26.458 --> 00:32:28.903 The diesel mechanics program? 00:32:28.903 --> 00:32:32.573 And they were like ah, like, ah, yeah, no, we ain't trying to, you know. 00:32:32.573 --> 00:32:36.991 But there's, I was like all right, it's cool, it's a waiting list, I'll be on the waiting list, put me on. 00:32:36.991 --> 00:32:44.338 I was like but put me on a waiting list for welding also, and put me on a waiting list for this and that and um, and for college. 00:32:44.338 --> 00:32:46.976 So I started going to college for a communications degree. 00:32:46.976 --> 00:32:53.636 But afterwards, all those waiting lists that I was on, like, all of a sudden they like oh, the diesel mechanics came up. 00:32:53.636 --> 00:32:57.170 Okay, cool, I'm going to stay in college and I'm going to do diesel mechanics. 00:32:57.694 --> 00:33:01.258 So I dropped down to like three classes and they was like well, you can't do that, why not? 00:33:01.258 --> 00:33:06.193 So I did it, passed the diesel mechanics Like, alright, I want my CDL. 00:33:06.193 --> 00:33:12.238 They like oh well,

you, because of the nature of your crime, they love to say that shit. 00:33:12.238 --> 00:33:19.077 They love to say that you know, because of the nature of your crime, we don't want to let you go outside the fence. 00:33:19.077 --> 00:33:21.516 I'm like I go outside the fence every day to go to diesel mechanics. 00:33:21.516 --> 00:33:23.253 I ain't got no tickets. 00:33:23.253 --> 00:33:30.691 I ain't got no, nothing Like what y'all. 00:33:30.691 --> 00:33:31.573 So now I gotta hunt down who to talk to. 00:33:31.573 --> 00:33:34.161 Once I talk to the right person, they like oh yeah, don't even worry about it, I'm gonna get you in there. 00:33:34.161 --> 00:33:35.403 I do the, I do the um, the cdl. 00:33:35.403 --> 00:33:39.796 At that point it wasn't nothing I could ask for that I wouldn't get. 00:33:39.796 --> 00:33:41.038 I want to do this program. 00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:43.571 At one point I was in like I was in um. 00:33:43.571 --> 00:33:44.493 I was in college. 00:33:44.493 --> 00:33:47.181 I was in the um, the, the digital design, graphic design. 00:33:47.181 --> 00:33:49.386 I was in c digital design, graphic design. 00:33:49.386 --> 00:33:51.624 I was in CDL. 00:33:51.624 --> 00:33:52.973 I was in all these different things. 00:33:53.013 --> 00:33:54.816 At one time People were like, bro, how you doing that? 00:33:54.816 --> 00:33:59.714 I'm like I just let them know I ain't taking no, I'm not taking no. 00:33:59.714 --> 00:34:15.257 I got to go home and I remember some dudes over in Lorain got caught bringing their cell phones and stuff, so they fired all of them, took them all to the hole under investigation and they just called me like hey, I'm in finals, I'm trying to write my finals and stuff. 00:34:15.257 --> 00:34:17.418 And they're like hey, we changed your job. 00:34:17.418 --> 00:34:20.099 You got to go over there and clean the visit room over there. 00:34:20.099 --> 00:34:23.490 I'm like no, they're like what you mean? 00:34:23.490 --> 00:34:24.692 No, I'm like no, like I'm a student. 00:34:24.692 --> 00:34:26.954 That I'm like no, Like I'm a student, that's my job. 00:34:26.954 --> 00:34:30.818 They're like all right, well, you know, if you don't, you can go to the hole. 00:34:30.818 --> 00:34:41.166 I was like well, you want to pack my stuff or you want me to pack my stuff, because if I'm not about to get my schooling done and I'm going to go to the hole, like either way, I'm not getting my way. 00:34:41.166 --> 00:34:44.612 So we go ahead and make this the hard way. 00:34:44.612 --> 00:34:46.356 And they're like man, I need to talk to the case manager. 00:34:46.356 --> 00:34:49.543 He ain't coming in until tomorrow. 00:34:49.849 --> 00:34:56.298 Bro, I went and cleaned the room, I did my homework while I was over there and the first thing in the morning I was out there to see the case manager. 00:34:56.298 --> 00:34:59.458 I was like yo, I need to let you know that I quit. 00:34:59.458 --> 00:35:00.952 He was like oh, you

can't quit. 00:35:00.952 --> 00:35:03.318 I was like no, you don't understand, I'm not quitting. 00:35:03.318 --> 00:35:07.356 I already quit like I'm a student. 00:35:07.356 --> 00:35:08.199 Hey, dude, look at me. 00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:12.510 Like what the fuck man Like? 00:35:12.510 --> 00:35:15.152 So I mean, we gonna get this bed, move out the way, because I already told them they can pack my stuff. 00:35:15.152 --> 00:35:15.956 I'm good, I'm ready. 00:35:15.956 --> 00:35:18.597 They like ah, man, well, you take that away. 00:35:18.597 --> 00:35:21.695 They can't threaten you with going to the hole, like I'm already in prison. 00:35:21.695 --> 00:35:23.954 I'm trying to work on myself. 00:35:23.954 --> 00:35:27.864 You're in my way of becoming a better person and think about that for a second. 00:35:28.005 --> 00:35:29.829 I don't mean to interrupt, but just think about that for a second. 00:35:29.829 --> 00:35:31.757 How do you go to jail in jail? 00:35:31.757 --> 00:35:37.298 That was always a philosophy that you got to be a really ignorant person. 00:35:37.298 --> 00:35:39.503 To go to jail in jail, my bad, go ahead. 00:35:39.923 --> 00:35:40.585 No, no, you're good. 00:35:40.585 --> 00:36:04.789 You got to be a really ignorant person to threaten somebody to go to jail in jail, but for you to fall for it at the same time is equally just asinine, because I'm like, so you're going to move me from one part of the prison to another part of the prison, but I'm still going to be in prison, right, cool, let's do it Right. 00:36:04.789 --> 00:36:09.822 I mean, I don't know, but anyway, that was just my little go ahead and vent thing. 00:36:09.822 --> 00:36:17.056 But to bring this all around though, we did the time, we made the best of the time. 00:36:17.056 --> 00:36:35.867 I'm proud of you for using your time better this time around, man, because you know, previously it was bit mode and this time it seemed to be just from day one, preparing, you know, and focusing on what was more important, which was working on yourself mental health, family, what's that? 00:36:35.867 --> 00:36:36.867 Yeah. 00:36:38.030 --> 00:36:46.324 What was different for me this time is the other incarceration, because I didn't want to accept that I was in prison. 00:36:46.324 --> 00:36:52.003 I didn't want to accept that I was receiving discipline or on time out or punishment. 00:36:52.003 --> 00:36:54.458 So I made the incarceration fun. 00:36:54.458 --> 00:36:57.719 You know I was doing this, doing that, getting into this, getting into that. 00:36:57.719 --> 00:37:06.559 You know, this time around I sat down and took it all in, like, oh, this is a punishment, this is real. 00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:15.376 I did something for me to be here and I made this time hell on purpose. 00:37:15.376 --> 00:37:16.958 I allowed the negativity. 00:37:16.958 --> 00:37:48.898 I I allowed myself to feel the negativity this time right, because when I walk out of here, I hate this place so

much that that's the leading factor in my decisions, that I hate and have a disgust for this place so much that every decision I make is designed to prevent me from being in a position to be in a place that I hate, which is something I didn't do in the past. 00:37:48.918 --> 00:37:59.358 And another thing that I wanted to add we can't forget about the family element, that family support right, and that is the most critical thing. 00:37:59.358 --> 00:38:02.119 A lot of us don't have family support. 00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:03.655 My mother supported me. 00:38:03.655 --> 00:38:05.235 My aunt and uncle supported me. 00:38:05.235 --> 00:38:07.094 My wife she supported me. 00:38:07.094 --> 00:38:08.980 How'd that go? 00:38:08.980 --> 00:38:14.213 Uncle supporting me, my wife, she's supporting me, so how'd that go? 00:38:14.233 --> 00:38:16.099 But that family support, you know, I I gotta give the thanks you know to them. 00:38:16.099 --> 00:38:41.054 If you have it, cherish it and recognize that us being away from our families impacts their ability to grow, because they have essentially put their lives on hold because of our statistics right, so they're waiting for us to come home with level heads and sane heads so that we can become a part of that family unit again and everything get back on track. 00:38:41.054 --> 00:38:43.646 So that's the other thing to keep in mind. 00:38:43.646 --> 00:38:49.259 Like, while you're here, recognize that your family, especially if they're supporting you. 00:38:49.259 --> 00:38:58.797 Let that be the guiding factor to your decision-making of how can I help benefit my family when I come home and hurt them again. 00:38:58.797 --> 00:39:01.539 I just wanted to put that in there too, but yeah. 00:39:02.269 --> 00:39:07.101 We often forget that we're missing from our families while we're in prison. 00:39:07.101 --> 00:39:13.050 We often just like we on the phone and we thinking like we still in the mix and that's nice, you know. 00:39:13.050 --> 00:39:15.298 It's nice that they allow us to think that for real. 00:39:15.298 --> 00:39:22.983 But, to be honest, you need to understand that you went from a leader of your household to another dependent. 00:39:22.983 --> 00:39:29.715 You don't run shit, so get that in your head and that's a hard pill to swallow for real. 00:39:29.715 --> 00:39:39.251 But then also, um, for your family, man, it's nice and they need to understand that you are an alpha and you are away from the pack. 00:39:39.251 --> 00:39:43.840 They gotta open up room for you to come back in so things flow smoothly. 00:39:43.900 --> 00:39:47.255 So there's not this power dynamic because they've been holding it down without you. 00:39:47.255 --> 00:39:54.114 They have become the alpha in the house and now it's this like okay, where can I pick up? 00:39:54.114 --> 00:39:59.632 Let's work together, because a lot of dudes I seen it, man they come back and they like it's my shit? 00:39:59.632 --> 00:40:04.034 Like nah,

bruh, it's really not. 00:40:04.034 --> 00:40:13.914 But okay, I'm gonna let you think that until problems happen, which they inevitably will, you know right. 00:40:13.914 --> 00:40:16.000 But yeah, um, you know you, you at the end now you, you. 00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.891 Well, I hate using that term you're not at the end. 00:40:18.891 --> 00:40:23.601 You, you coming up on release because I tell people this ain't the end. 00:40:23.601 --> 00:40:24.951 This, this is the beginning. 00:40:24.951 --> 00:40:29.778 This is the beginning the everything you do in there that we just talked about preparing. 00:40:29.778 --> 00:40:36.458 That's the prequel, like we ready for game day now, and congratulations on that. 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:38.952 I appreciate that, bro. 00:40:38.972 --> 00:40:43.460 Congratulations on where you've grown to in preparation for it. 00:40:44.969 --> 00:40:45.894 Man, forget about me. 00:40:45.894 --> 00:40:47.335 Congratulations to you. 00:40:47.335 --> 00:40:51.298 I don't want to let it go unnoticed. 00:40:51.298 --> 00:40:54.233 Right, I've been watching you all this time. 00:40:54.233 --> 00:40:57.001 I've watched you succeed as a family man. 00:40:57.001 --> 00:40:59.094 I've watched you succeed as a businessman. 00:40:59.094 --> 00:41:05.494 I've watched you succeed as just an individual, from that dude that I met in 2008, right to here. 00:41:05.494 --> 00:41:14.601 It is 2025, right, you know we've kept in contact all this time, but I'm inspired by you, believe it or not, right? 00:41:14.601 --> 00:41:21.378 But that just goes back to 2008, when I said this young man has a good head on his shoulder. 00:41:21.378 --> 00:41:26.876 Right, when you see somebody that has a good head on their shoulder, you got to empower that individual. 00:41:26.876 --> 00:41:31.456 You got to empower it, because all it takes is to get up. 00:41:31.456 --> 00:41:37.713 I've been watching you at the wife and kids and houses and businesses. 00:41:37.713 --> 00:41:38.858 You're doing your thing. 00:41:38.858 --> 00:41:42.217 You're staying out of here. 00:41:42.217 --> 00:41:42.940 That's commendable. 00:41:42.940 --> 00:41:46.179 I got to give you your flowers, too, though. 00:41:46.179 --> 00:41:47.514 Keep up the good work, man. 00:41:47.514 --> 00:41:47.996 I'm proud of you. 00:41:47.996 --> 00:41:49.501 Thanks, man, thanks. 00:41:49.802 --> 00:41:50.664 Keep up the good work, man. 00:41:50.664 --> 00:41:51.106 I'm proud of you. 00:41:51.106 --> 00:41:51.447 Thanks, man. 00:41:51.447 --> 00:42:19.943 Thanks, that means a lot, and I just had a conversation with somebody about this man that recognizing that it's people in there that are using me as an example and inspiration is, in itself, an inspiration for me to keep doing good, because I know that not only do I have a lot to lose out here, but I could potentially fuck up the role that I play in all these other people's lives. 00:42:19.943 --> 00:42:22.572 So, yeah, thanks, man. 00:42:22.572 --> 00:42:24.556 Thanks for that recognition. 00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:27.222 For sure you do. 00:42:27.222 --> 00:42:28.563 Keep it up, man. 00:42:30.873 --> 00:42:31.536 I'll see you soon. 00:42:31.536 --> 00:42:34.876 Yeah, I will, man, and I'll be here for you, bro. 00:42:34.876 --> 00:42:52.333 Like you know, I'm always trying to give some game for free, man, all the hard earned lessons that I learned, cause I'm not telling you that it was a straight line up, it definitely was not, but it'll be a chance to give some of that game that you gave me. 00:42:52.333 --> 00:42:59.454 Give it back, you know For sure, only to the wide, so you got any closing thoughts. 00:42:59.454 --> 00:43:01.519 Man, you got any closing thoughts you want to end it off with? 00:43:02.949 --> 00:43:03.673 Closing thoughts. 00:43:03.673 --> 00:43:07.295 Man, first thing about prison is don't come to prison. 00:43:07.295 --> 00:43:20.137 If whatever element out there that would even lead you to here, change it, get rid of it, slow your life down, but if you do have to come, make the best out of it. 00:43:20.137 --> 00:43:21.320 Make your time count. 00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:22.483 I'm happy. 00:43:22.483 --> 00:43:40.913 It's an unfortunate situation but I know that I'm light years ahead and I feel that I'm ready to be successful, to take care of my family, and I'm glad that I have influential people like yourself in my life, keeping my circle small. 00:43:40.913 --> 00:43:47.376 And I'm just waiting for that door to open up so I can go ahead and do what's planned. 00:43:47.376 --> 00:43:51.963 Don't come to me, great man. 00:43:54.032 --> 00:43:56.981 As always, man, because I love to talk and give my two cents. 00:43:56.981 --> 00:44:16.902 I'm going to give my little two cents to people out there man that's going through it, or people that's supporting people going through it and that's before you can make any type of great change or before you can make change in somebody else, you first got to change the things that define them. 00:44:16.902 --> 00:44:26.324 So when you say that you focus on success, you can't be successful until you define success. 00:44:26.324 --> 00:44:36.097 Remember when we was in the streets, we wanted to be successful, and successful was getting a bottle, getting the girls, getting the weed, getting the move and how we was moving. 00:44:36.097 --> 00:44:37.255 That was successful to us. 00:44:37.255 --> 00:44:42.079 So you couldn't tell us we were not successful and that we needed to straighten up. 00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.757 So you know, work on the foundations. 00:44:45.757 --> 00:44:46.900 That's all I'm going to say. 00:44:48.869 --> 00:44:52.338 I agree with you 100%. 00:44:52.458 --> 00:44:57.579 All right, man, all right, and with that we're going to wrap this one up. 00:45:08.530 --> 00:45:13.583 The Lockdown to Legacy podcast is proud to be a part of the Buzzsprout Podcast Community Network. 00:45:13.583 --> 00:45:17.090 Audio engineering is done by our very own Remy Jones. 00:45:17.090 --> 00:45:24.782 You can reach out to us with any feedback, questions, comments or share the love by emailing stories at lockdown2legacycom. 00:45:24.782 --> 00:45:29.237 Stories at lockdown2 to legacycom. 00:45:29.237 --> 00:45:42.103 You can reach out there, too, for a free sticker, and you can find us on Instagram and Twitter with the handle at lockdown to legacy and on Facebook at the lockdown to legacy podcast. 00:45:42.103 --> 00:45:45.300 Please don't forget to rate, review and subscribe. 00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:46.793 Thanks for listening.