บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Kenneth Mims on Building Schools with Love for Neurodivergent Kids

helped my life severely. 00:04:42.189 --> 00:04:46.420 It made me feel less creeped out because I over set boundaries, always using my mail name. 00:04:47.259 --> 00:04:47.500 Why? 00:04:48.500 --> 00:04:49.038 Yeah. 00:04:49.339 --> 00:04:52.709 You know, but it's, but I have a unique journey though. 00:04:52.918 --> 00:05:03.899 I have a unique journey, you know, you know, so everybody just doesn't have, you know, certain experiences to put 'em in a position to, to connect the dots and see. 00:05:04.019 --> 00:05:05.279 But yeah, you, you, you're right. 00:05:05.788 --> 00:05:06.389 You're absolutely right. 00:05:07.339 --> 00:05:11.089 You mentioned two things and then I wanna get into your journey. 00:05:11.089 --> 00:05:11.149 Um. 00:05:11.819 --> 00:05:22.079 Uh, potential of kids and love and Lita has never had an IEP 'cause I was definitely the mom going, let me remove her from the system. 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:34.468 'cause I've worked with the system too long on the, uh, and um, I work with getting IEP straightened for military families across the country and people are like, I bet it's better in this state. 00:05:34.468 --> 00:05:36.329 And I'm like, no, no, it is not. 00:05:37.303 --> 00:05:41.249 Oh But it is rare to hear. 00:05:41.774 --> 00:05:51.973 Any educator say the potential and love and respect these kids, they get so in the weeds on, oh my gosh, I have to follow this. 00:05:51.973 --> 00:05:52.814 IEP. 00:05:52.814 --> 00:05:58.093 I think sometimes they fail to see the children child in front of them. 00:05:58.244 --> 00:06:06.403 Um, how has coming at it from a different perspective of coming at it from. 00:06:07.348 --> 00:06:11.788 The love perspective changed how you're approaching education. 00:06:12.884 --> 00:06:13.213 Yeah. 00:06:13.423 --> 00:06:13.603 Yeah. 00:06:13.603 --> 00:06:20.803 I mean, when I discovered, so I, I got exposed to autism from a, from a science standpoint, I was a science teacher. 00:06:20.803 --> 00:06:22.394 Had a kid ask a high level question. 00:06:22.394 --> 00:06:23.384 I'm like, oh, who's this? 00:06:23.923 --> 00:06:24.673 Who's this guy? 00:06:24.853 --> 00:06:25.153 You know? 00:06:25.153 --> 00:06:28.334 Then I found out he was diagnosed with autism, never heard of it before. 00:06:28.874 --> 00:06:30.853 Started studying, you know, autism. 00:06:30.913 --> 00:06:31.274 Um. 00:06:31.769 --> 00:06:37.048 While I was working on a master's degree, so I became science, I became what they call broad field certified. 00:06:37.048 --> 00:06:53.759 I'm able to, I became certified to teach every science subject in every grade level, but I was doing research for some of my classes on autism, and I discovered that the characteristics reminded me of myself, but also my peers in the physics community, like my professors, my graduate students. 00:06:54.269 --> 00:07:00.269 And so later on I realized years later I realized like I was exposed to autism from a strength based perspective. 00:07:00.913 --> 00:07:05.744 Which is totally different from the average child or family or individual. 00:07:06.283 --> 00:07:12.434 And so autism is presented as a deficit or a disability and you know, and a weakness. 00:07:12.944 --> 00:07:14.774 And, but I didn't see it like that. 00:07:14.774 --> 00:07:26.653 And so that kind of distorted my perception of reality in a good way because, you know, I saw like potential, I saw value, you know, and I just was like, and I just, just, I just saw something. 00:07:27.374 --> 00:07:28.754 And so, um. 00:07:29.754 --> 00:07:32.483 You know, I, I think that's, that, that's one of the, the biggest things. 00:07:32.483 --> 00:07:37.673 But from a, from a IEP standpoint, and, and, and, and you're right. 00:07:38.124 --> 00:07:48.754 Um, you know, I feel, I feel I have reservations of saying it as an educator, it's almost like a gang where you don't say certain, you know, you're not supposed to say certain things. 00:07:49.233 --> 00:07:52.415 I'm sure that you kind of feel that way when you're in IEP meetings with teachers. 00:07:52.415 --> 00:07:57.454 It's just, it's like, you don't say, you don't just, you know, but you know. 00:07:58.454 --> 00:07:58.814 I don't know. 00:07:59.055 --> 00:08:06.795 You know, so from a professional standpoint and a per, I think my personal, my personal life, you know, you know, created that. 00:08:06.795 --> 00:08:23.834 But, um, yeah, there's some, there's, there's some opportunities to change some things on a, on a, a legislative standpoint, on a policy standpoint to, from, you know, that that will open up, you know, some doors and, and change some systematic things when it, specifically, when it comes to autism. 00:08:24.163 --> 00:08:27.254 And you know, and I could talk about that for hours. 00:08:28.254 --> 00:08:31.524 Uh, we will probably have to have you back on to talk about that for hours. 00:08:32.359 --> 00:08:32.629 Yeah. 00:08:33.384 --> 00:08:39.774 this one's gonna sound weird, but coming from a physics and math, math blah, physics and math background, myself. 00:08:40.154 --> 00:08:48.554 Um, I know we used to joke as a few people found out I was autistic, had been diagnosed with autism and A DHD Young. 00:08:48.554 --> 00:08:50.323 They're like, oh, you're neurodivergent. 00:08:50.323 --> 00:08:52.125 And I'm like, no, you need to go see people. 00:08:52.125 --> 00:08:54.134 'cause I think you're so much like me. 00:08:54.193 --> 00:08:55.664 You are not neurotypical. 00:08:56.203 --> 00:09:01.904 And uh, the joke used to be that if you were neurotypical, you were the weird one out in our physics department. 00:09:02.828 --> 00:09:03.424 There, there. 00:09:04.784 --> 00:09:06.044 Um, how. 00:09:06.214 --> 00:09:19.504 Uh, did being around, like you said, you were around all these physicists, how did that kind of change your perspective when like you started realizing, oh, these guys are all not normal. 00:09:19.504 --> 00:09:22.054 We're just all our

own version of weird. 00:09:22.534 --> 00:09:22.804 Yeah. 00:09:22.835 --> 00:09:23.073 Yeah. 00:09:23.073 --> 00:09:26.855 So there used to be a saying, um, it's not rocket science. 00:09:27.063 --> 00:09:27.424 Right? 00:09:27.485 --> 00:09:29.284 You know, I don't know if you remember that like, so. 00:09:30.229 --> 00:09:33.979 But I used to, in my mind, I used to be like, well, I'm a physicist. 00:09:33.979 --> 00:09:37.369 Like, this is just how, you know, I think I just think in a certain way. 00:09:38.029 --> 00:09:41.929 And so I just, I, I kind of like, just, I, I don't know. 00:09:41.929 --> 00:09:44.714 I just, I, I didn't, how can I say? 00:09:45.249 --> 00:09:47.594 I just thought I was a scientist. 00:09:47.744 --> 00:09:58.693 I didn't think I was, you know, nor divergent or had, you know, any social emotional, like, you know, delays or, or, or, or areas of growth, you know, blah, blah, blah. 00:09:59.609 --> 00:10:15.839 So, you know, I mean, 'cause I talk, I was talking to somebody about like, you know, scientists that study light, if you look at like, um, Einstein Study light or like George Washington Carver studied a peanut their whole life. 00:10:16.739 --> 00:10:17.759 Their whole life. 00:10:17.764 --> 00:10:21.839 And then if you just look at the average researcher, like, you know, you know, take me physics. 00:10:21.839 --> 00:10:26.203 I mean, they're just studying like the most minute detail their whole life. 00:10:27.203 --> 00:10:33.504 You know, the wiring of the mind, the brain is, is, is, you know, you know, it's not a weakness. 00:10:33.504 --> 00:10:34.854 I just didn't look at it like a weakness. 00:10:34.884 --> 00:10:40.494 I looked at it as, as, I don't wanna say superpower, 'cause that's kind of cliche now, but it, it, it, it's a strength. 00:10:40.614 --> 00:10:41.573 It's a huge strength. 00:10:41.964 --> 00:10:43.464 And so I just saw the value in it. 00:10:43.524 --> 00:10:45.114 So, so, yeah. 00:10:45.114 --> 00:10:54.414 But, but when you start to look at like, outside of like professional, uh, capacities outside of like work, you start looking at like social and emotional stuff like. 00:10:54.879 --> 00:11:01.119 Re responses to like marriage and, and dating and, you know, that type of stuff. 00:11:01.124 --> 00:11:15.803 You, you can quickly see, you know, some triggers that, that, that, that, you know, show like the, the other side of, of these gifts, I used to joke with my husband's professors 'cause he's trained in geology and they would be sitting there going, we're normal. 00:11:15.803 --> 00:11:19.619 And I'm like, you guys study rocks for a people like rocks. 00:11:19.619 --> 00:11:23.609 Your people keep stopping on the side of the road for rocks. 00:11:23.908 --> 00:11:28.049 Your people would literally jump off of a cliff for rocks. 00:11:29.413 --> 00:11:40.903 Everybody else decided, and it's like if your friends drop off of a cliff, would you jump off of Cliff and decided the same thing

to here is don't jump off of a cliff just because you want to look at the pointy rocks. 00:11:40.903 --> 00:11:41.984 It's not gonna die. 00:11:42.884 --> 00:11:44.714 I never thought about it from that perspective. 00:11:45.014 --> 00:11:45.283 rocks. 00:11:46.438 --> 00:11:47.519 Yeah, I never thought about it. 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:49.078 Just they love looking at rocks. 00:11:49.619 --> 00:11:50.524 That's, that's funny. 00:11:51.374 --> 00:11:55.604 Uh, we were out with his professor one day looking for ash. 00:11:55.813 --> 00:11:58.364 'cause that was my husband still of taking me on. 00:11:58.364 --> 00:12:01.333 Our first date was, Hey, I've gotta go do a field study. 00:12:01.333 --> 00:12:03.484 You wanna come Hey, hey. 00:12:04.004 --> 00:12:08.413 like, and everyone in his department's like, oh, that's a great first date. 00:12:08.413 --> 00:12:10.994 And I'm like, guys, this is not normal outside of science. 00:12:10.994 --> 00:12:13.783 Hey, do you wanna come to my, uh. 00:12:14.684 --> 00:12:17.714 Help me do my field study, not normal. 00:12:17.714 --> 00:12:19.274 And they're like, it it is right? 00:12:20.714 --> 00:12:20.923 Hey. 00:12:21.014 --> 00:12:26.323 his professor like just was gung-ho and super excited and acting like a little kid. 00:12:26.354 --> 00:12:28.424 'cause he had figured out he had been wrong. 00:12:28.724 --> 00:12:35.203 And I'm like, you know, normal people, 'cause I've dealt with normal people, they're not super excited when they find out they've been wrong. 00:12:35.203 --> 00:12:37.994 'cause now they have all these new papers to write. 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:38.818 Yeah. 00:12:39.028 --> 00:12:39.328 Yeah. 00:12:39.599 --> 00:12:40.499 And it's funny you say that. 00:12:40.528 --> 00:12:42.989 I mean, so the science for me was just like the glue. 00:12:43.413 --> 00:12:48.734 I, I wouldn't be, I would have went down this path, you know, particularly, you know, focused on students who are divers. 00:12:49.514 --> 00:12:52.994 But it's, it's, it's, it's science, the commonality. 00:12:52.994 --> 00:12:54.134 You know, I love science. 00:12:54.134 --> 00:12:55.333 The students love science. 00:12:55.394 --> 00:13:00.974 You know, we had a common love and that just is what, you know, just provided a solid foundation. 00:13:01.604 --> 00:13:04.573 And, um, and that's what keeps things going. 00:13:04.874 --> 00:13:06.854 You know, this, this love, this curiosity. 00:13:07.854 --> 00:13:17.489 I did wanna touch a little bit on, you've got a new book out on, uh, the Mother's Guide to Autism, which being a scientist. 00:13:18.489 --> 00:13:29.039 It is slightly different than like some of the books I was given when she was a kid that I'm like, these are great kindling that were like, you need to mourn your child 'cause they will never be perfect. 00:13:29.124 --> 00:13:29.604 I'm sorry, breathing? 00:13:29.964 --> 00:13:32.964 Living thing in front of everybody's lives. 00:13:33.174 --> 00:13:36.144 It is

very much breathing and living. 00:13:36.534 --> 00:13:42.714 And if that's our child, then that's ghost, and then we have to question whether or not the child is haunted. 00:13:42.714 --> 00:13:44.434 Now, It. 00:13:44.434 --> 00:13:45.034 it was more. 00:13:45.034 --> 00:13:49.953 that your child's not neurotypical and where I was like, yay, she's neurodivergent. 00:13:49.984 --> 00:13:51.139 I can handle this. 00:13:51.438 --> 00:13:51.730 Yeah. 00:13:52.234 --> 00:13:54.693 You know, most parents, their first. 00:13:55.693 --> 00:14:07.229 Time, sometimes even really hearing the word autism except outside of like the Good Doctor or whatever new autistic character there is on not accept that, whatever the hell that is. 00:14:08.234 --> 00:14:10.693 We just do not accept its existence. 00:14:10.693 --> 00:14:14.984 So if you say teaching show, no. 00:14:14.984 --> 00:14:15.344 No. 00:14:15.344 --> 00:14:17.024 Not in any part of that department. 00:14:17.024 --> 00:14:18.313 No, not on the doctor part. 00:14:18.313 --> 00:14:19.634 Not on the autisms part. 00:14:19.634 --> 00:14:21.404 Not on the doctor part. 00:14:22.874 --> 00:14:24.583 We ignore that existence. 00:14:25.604 --> 00:14:31.634 She's heard me get upset at people who are like, oh, I've watched The Good Doctor, or, oh, I've watched the Big Bang Theory. 00:14:31.634 --> 00:14:33.340 I now know all about autism. 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:33.854 No. 00:14:34.479 --> 00:14:35.924 No, you don't anymore on. 00:14:36.924 --> 00:14:37.375 Yeah. 00:14:37.375 --> 00:14:50.205 Um, I've referenced, um, I've referenced, um, what was it, the Big Bang, but, uh, young Sheldon in a, in a, in a talk that I did, I referenced it. 00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:58.519 And so a young Sheldon, they really didn't get into anything, you know, but it, it highlighted, you know, some, some social emotional gaps. 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:00.500 But, but, you know, he was bright. 00:15:01.190 --> 00:15:04.340 Um, and so I just highlight the aspect. 00:15:04.490 --> 00:15:13.019 'cause people don't know that autism has nothing to do with, uh, intellectual, like iq, you know? 00:15:13.019 --> 00:15:18.029 Like they, you know, and, and really nobody really, they don't, people don't really get that. 00:15:18.029 --> 00:15:19.679 And so, and actually some people. 00:15:20.715 --> 00:15:28.904 Can have, you know, on average, above average iq, you know, and, um, so that's a, that's a, that's a, that's an interesting piece that you know, that, that people don't know. 00:15:28.904 --> 00:15:30.313 So I don't know. 00:15:30.615 --> 00:15:32.039 It's, we still have a long ways to go. 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:36.714 What would you want a mom to know of? 00:15:37.315 --> 00:15:44.754 A kid who's coming, they've just got that diagnosis and their child is possibly crazy like my husband. 00:15:44.754 --> 00:15:48.389 And playing with rocks and stopping in the middle of the street to look at rocks Yeah. 00:15:48.389 --> 00:15:48.668 Yeah. 00:15:49.134 --> 00:15:56.184 or they're, you know, a physicist and they can't stop discussing how atoms can be split. 00:15:56.303 --> 00:15:59.063 Um, and they're concerned about their child. 00:15:59.664 --> 00:15:59.874 Yeah. 00:16:00.234 --> 00:16:00.504 What? 00:16:00.744 --> 00:16:02.668 She's laughing 'cause she's had. 00:16:03.594 --> 00:16:07.404 Parents go this way and she's like, your kid might become a scientist. 00:16:07.404 --> 00:16:08.154 just get over it. 00:16:08.453 --> 00:16:17.693 be more concerned if it becomes a scientist, because then it'll die quicker because they have no sense life. 00:16:19.119 --> 00:16:21.399 And we'll just die quicker if comes to scientists. 00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:23.289 Just try to make sure it doesn't make up a scientist. 00:16:23.289 --> 00:16:24.250 You shall be good. 00:16:25.250 --> 00:16:39.620 All the scientists she knows are research scientist and They every freaking Tuesday and Monday and Wednesday and freaking every day Well, of them are, yeah, they don't end up in the grave, I'll be nah, I, I, I know. 00:16:39.620 --> 00:16:40.789 Listen, but I agree. 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:42.259 I actually agree with what you're saying. 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:55.039 You know, I, you know, coming from the educator standpoint and talking to all that stuff, and then realizing, talking with moms like you, you really need to focus on that social emotional piece that you need to focus on that living piece. 00:16:55.684 --> 00:17:08.703 You know, like, like just real life, like school is fine, it's great, but it's not particularly kids who are, you know, who are autistic and nor diversion that need that social emotional development and support. 00:17:09.298 --> 00:17:11.074 You, you can't, you can't get it from school. 00:17:11.104 --> 00:17:19.564 So that's where, you know, going back to like that public school model and no form or fashion, does public school provide, I mean, listen, I mean, just be honest. 00:17:19.624 --> 00:17:22.384 It's, it's unsafe, you know, we look at the stories, you know. 00:17:22.789 --> 00:17:24.890 It's, it's traumatic, it's traumatizing. 00:17:25.190 --> 00:17:29.420 Just the thought of going to school for many is like, from this, it's what we watch. 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:30.829 It is. 00:17:30.829 --> 00:17:33.440 Unfortunately, that's the reality of, of this day and time. 00:17:33.529 --> 00:17:33.859 Right? 00:17:34.130 --> 00:17:42.859 And so from an individual who needs support socially, emotionally, like that, that, that, that environment is, you know, is not the place. 00:17:42.859 --> 00:17:46.160 But I'm just saying, the point I'm just trying to say is for mothers, right? 00:17:46.730 --> 00:17:50.159 You know, first of all I would say, you know, um, you know. 00:17:51.159 --> 00:18:05.589 I don't wanna say there's hope, but, but I, I do have to say that because many times, you know, this aspect, you know, like information that's presented is, is, is, is, uh, like the

end, you know? 00:18:05.679 --> 00:18:07.719 Um, and it's, and it's challenging. 00:18:08.619 --> 00:18:17.919 Um, but staying positive, being around good people, people that believe, you know, that's probably one of the biggest thing I found with, with parents, with moms. 00:18:18.069 --> 00:18:18.894 And that was the purpose of the book. 00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:22.269 You know, just that belief, you know, believe in your child. 00:18:22.509 --> 00:18:26.799 Find people that believe in them, you know, you know, cancel out the noise. 00:18:27.609 --> 00:18:41.839 Um, and um, and, um, you know, look at, I look at moms as superheroes and the reason why I say that is because there's battles, you know, and, and parents and moms many times are on that front line battling. 00:18:42.529 --> 00:18:46.970 And so the book is just meant to be a guide, support to identify, you know, those challenges. 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:50.509 And just provide, you know, uh, inspiration and tools. 00:18:50.990 --> 00:18:57.239 But, um, but yeah, just hope, um, strength because it is a battle. 00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:12.148 And sometimes, yeah, you gotta kick butt, but at the same time, you know, you, you, you all that fighting, you, you gotta, um, you, you gotta rest Also, you gotta, you can't be in that kind of fight all the time. 00:19:12.749 --> 00:19:16.199 And is that you, you said something that was so, you know, right on. 00:19:16.769 --> 00:19:30.328 And this is what I say, and I think if, if you're in a situation like with school or public schools and it's just, you know, and it's not the right fit and you're advocating and arguing for your rights, sometimes it's just best to leave. 00:19:31.318 --> 00:19:37.769 Because if you're always fighting for what's right, you may just be dealing with the wrong being, the wrong relationship. 00:19:38.134 --> 00:19:39.028 You, you know what I mean? 00:19:40.028 --> 00:19:47.409 I was, uh, she was in private school even by when we got really upset 'cause she had a private school that kept losing her. 00:19:47.409 --> 00:19:54.173 And I'm like, I am paying too much money for you to lose my I mean, I only almost got hit by a car four times. 00:19:54.173 --> 00:19:54.834 I'm still alive. 00:19:55.834 --> 00:20:00.244 They also may have accidentally left her behind at the New Mex, Southern New Mexico State Fair. 00:20:00.244 --> 00:20:01.984 They forgot they had her. 00:20:02.434 --> 00:20:03.125 Oh wow. 00:20:03.484 --> 00:20:04.144 Oh wow. 00:20:05.314 --> 00:20:12.963 And I am definitely, I mean, having fought for other people's kids, I'm like, and I will remove her for my sanity and she can be homeschooled. 00:20:12.963 --> 00:20:15.558 And people were like, I got rib in treats though. 00:20:16.558 --> 00:20:22.919 A small town, the sheriff's department was called and they called me going, we have Leta and we have hot her hyped up on sugar. 00:20:22.919 --> 00:20:23.788 Do you want her back? 00:20:23.788 --> 00:20:27.419 And I'm like, this seems like a you consequence now. 00:20:28.419 --> 00:20:28.749 At that. 00:20:28.779 --> 00:20:34.569 But she was nonverbal, so it was lucky that the sheriff's department knew exactly who she was. 00:20:34.989 --> 00:20:35.349 Ooh. 00:20:36.099 --> 00:20:36.459 Oh yeah. 00:20:36.730 --> 00:20:36.759 Oh. 00:20:37.344 --> 00:20:43.824 Because the magician they had left her with was traveling into the area and he's like, does anyone know who this kid belongs to? 00:20:44.824 --> 00:20:47.960 Um, but If forgot, they left me on stage. 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.269 They, they looked down, it was time to leave. 00:20:51.269 --> 00:20:56.029 They forgot she was on stage doing stuff and left and. 00:20:56.750 --> 00:21:04.250 I've talked to other parents who would be, were like, well, I would be upset, but I don't think I would have gone, okay, well I guess we're homeschooling. 00:21:04.250 --> 00:21:06.470 And I'm like, you have that choice. 00:21:06.470 --> 00:21:07.039 You can move. 00:21:08.375 --> 00:21:11.279 Yeah, you have a choice, you know, and that's the beautiful thing about. 00:21:12.214 --> 00:21:17.554 You know, more and more, you know, you know, every day, you know, just having that choice, you know? 00:21:17.644 --> 00:21:19.354 Um, yeah. 00:21:19.654 --> 00:21:20.944 And homeschool. 00:21:21.244 --> 00:21:27.484 do think sometimes moms get overwhelmed and they've got so many people who claim they're experts Yeah. 00:21:27.904 --> 00:21:29.825 and they may not be experts. 00:21:29.825 --> 00:21:33.394 And then I'll talk to the mom and go, have they seen this paper or this paper? 00:21:33.424 --> 00:21:35.795 'cause of course I go down the rabbit hole of papers. 00:21:35.795 --> 00:21:39.125 If you're gonna tell me something, there's a paper out there for me to double check you on. 00:21:40.054 --> 00:21:40.294 Yeah. 00:21:40.444 --> 00:21:42.065 And the moms are like, but I can't. 00:21:42.095 --> 00:21:43.174 They're the teachers. 00:21:43.204 --> 00:21:45.785 I have to do what the teachers want. 00:21:45.875 --> 00:21:46.265 Um. 00:21:47.210 --> 00:22:01.700 And I'm coming from totally outside the educational world, uh, little academia, but I'm coming in with the Pentagon and Congress backing me, going, hi, yeah, I could listen to you, but here's all the papers. 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:03.200 yeah, yeah. 00:22:03.259 --> 00:22:09.349 You know, um, that's a kind of interesting point though, because you know, educators aren't really. 00:22:10.349 --> 00:22:12.869 They're Ed, they're experts when it comes to standards. 00:22:13.019 --> 00:22:22.890 You know, you know, at, you know, math, science, you know, the core subject standards and hopefully, you know, teaching instructions, you know, instructional strategies, you know, and those type of things. 00:22:23.670 --> 00:22:26.789 Uh, assessment, development, you know, curriculum design. 00:22:27.779 --> 00:22:32.785 But when, when it comes to this, this specialization in, in

social and emotional, you know, development and support. 00:22:34.003 --> 00:22:53.625 You know, um, I have to be honest and say, no, this is something that was totally, that I learned totally outside through, you know, through more of psychology, you know, and understanding, you know, um, you know, how, how the mind works, how behaviors, excuse me, are established and then, you know, the emotional piece. 00:22:53.744 --> 00:22:54.284 Emotional. 00:22:54.734 --> 00:23:02.055 And so schools and educators are not really, are not the experts when it comes to, um, social development. 00:23:02.789 --> 00:23:07.919 Is the reality of it's not, that's not so, um, and we just have to be honest. 00:23:08.069 --> 00:23:18.249 And even the experts that's in the school system, like sometimes you may have behavior therapists, but they don't, they don't operate in the same capacity as the medical environment. 00:23:18.429 --> 00:23:20.469 And so you may have that type of support. 00:23:20.829 --> 00:23:29.319 Even speech and ot, they don't operate in the same capacity as a medical or clinical setting, um, in the, in the public line, but maybe in the private. 00:23:30.669 --> 00:23:31.344 No, she. 00:23:31.494 --> 00:23:33.203 Is only gone to private therapists. 00:23:33.203 --> 00:23:37.253 And even they were like, I'm like, hi, did you know there's papers on this? 00:23:37.253 --> 00:23:38.273 And they're like, really? 00:23:39.190 --> 00:23:40.644 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:23:41.634 --> 00:23:44.875 It's just, you know, it's just some gap. 00:23:45.085 --> 00:23:50.634 Unfortunately, there's some, some major gaps and so I don't position myself necessarily as a expert. 00:23:50.784 --> 00:23:54.924 I really position myself more as a guide, you know, just to support parents. 00:23:54.924 --> 00:23:58.253 I think parents, mothers, parents are the, are the experts. 00:23:58.253 --> 00:23:59.154 They're definitely the experts. 00:23:59.724 --> 00:24:03.503 And they just need a little bit of maybe guidance and support on the journey. 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:12.789 And sometimes just a little reminder that they are the parents and they know stuff. 00:24:12.924 --> 00:24:13.089 Yeah. 00:24:13.285 --> 00:24:14.035 Oh yeah. 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:14.559 I know. 00:24:15.829 --> 00:24:17.095 They know a lot of stuff. 00:24:18.095 --> 00:24:19.480 What were you gonna say, kiddo? 00:24:19.615 --> 00:24:19.974 I'm sorry. 00:24:19.974 --> 00:24:29.605 Don't most of these experts be child free and want to be child free for the rest of their lives because apparently children are only paychecks that you need to pay for. 00:24:30.654 --> 00:24:42.144 And don't Most of them dislike children and don't, most of them just see children as something they have to pay for, so another bill in their bank account. 00:24:43.169 --> 00:24:46.375 How are the experts if they're all child free and single? 00:24:47.334 --> 00:24:52.554 has had a lot of therapists that were experts if you're child free and single and convincing a bunch of children. 00:24:52.554 --> 00:24:55.914 You Jean, that they're only paychecks to pay. 00:24:56.679 --> 00:25:04.388 No, but you, you, yeah, you, you, you tap on, you touch on something, you know, I know you, you saying in a jokingly manner, but there's some systematic things. 00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:11.439 Even the reality, like most the, in the therapy model, most individuals that are technicians are young. 00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:15.339 You know, just the way that the, the, the model is, is created and so. 00:25:15.924 --> 00:25:32.394 The technicians are young, they're getting either, you know, and they ha they don't really have that, um, same, um, ability perspective as like someone who is older with children who have that experience and that's consistent. 00:25:33.309 --> 00:25:33.565 Hmm. 00:25:33.609 --> 00:25:38.380 had some therapists who have told her that they are child free and they don't want kids. 00:25:39.144 --> 00:25:39.503 Yeah. 00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:41.269 that's what she was talking Mm-hmm. 00:25:41.410 --> 00:25:46.359 like, why would a parent listen to someone who's like, oh, if I had kids, they'd ruin my life. 00:25:46.359 --> 00:25:49.599 And she's like, then I'm not listening to you about how to raise my child. 00:25:49.989 --> 00:25:57.263 Also, why would you actively tell a child you are working with in a child environment? 00:25:57.324 --> 00:26:01.224 That you don't like children because they would ruin your lives. 00:26:01.403 --> 00:26:05.753 Like, why would you work with children if you think having a child would ruin your life, why? 00:26:06.753 --> 00:26:08.194 Yeah, that's definitely unfortunate, but. 00:26:09.184 --> 00:26:12.244 You know, sometimes those, those things do you know, do happen. 00:26:12.244 --> 00:26:12.575 I don't. 00:26:13.234 --> 00:26:13.414 Yeah. 00:26:14.490 --> 00:26:26.039 And even with the full SLPs and the full OTs, they don't have that science background that I think a lot of parents just automatically assume, well, they've studied autism. 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:31.200 No, they've studied how to teach your kids speech, and I think a lot of moms. 00:26:31.805 --> 00:26:37.265 Feel like they have to give over that power to the experts. 00:26:37.265 --> 00:26:40.474 And they're like, well, they know how to teach my child. 00:26:40.474 --> 00:26:42.875 And it's like, but you know, your child. 00:26:43.174 --> 00:26:43.549 Correct. 00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:44.089 Yeah. 00:26:44.209 --> 00:26:50.659 You know, your child, um, you know their strengths, you know their weaknesses, but also this is, you bring up a really important point. 00:26:51.184 --> 00:26:55.294 Which, so socially and emotionally, that goes into like culture. 00:26:55.564 --> 00:27:06.814 And those cultural or social expectations are defined by you and your family and your household, you know, so this is where your voice is, is really the dominant voice. 00:27:06.934 --> 00:27:09.574

You know, we want our child to develop, you know? 00:27:09.574 --> 00:27:18.829 So you have to play a role in, in the goals, you know, and the expectations and the vision, you know, because if you don't, and you're mute and you don't, you know, they're. 00:27:19.638 --> 00:27:26.329 It's not gonna be connected to, you know, your, your family and, and, and the potential that you see. 00:27:26.329 --> 00:27:47.749 So, but it's a, it's a journey I've realized, and some, and it takes a while sometimes for parents, moms, for parents to just kind of, um, come out of, you know, some of the emotional battles, you know, from, you know, you know, from initial diagnosis to, you know, you know, um, you know, to, you know, years after. 00:27:48.470 --> 00:28:01.519 You know, you know, and then like you said, like kind of trusting and going with the flow, and then having, you know, challenges and then seeing, you know, you know, and realizing like, oh, oh, this is not working out. 00:28:01.638 --> 00:28:08.534 So it's a, it's unfortunately a lot of time wasted, you know, wasted, you know, going through that, that, that, you know, on that journey. 00:28:09.534 --> 00:28:12.609 And I think, I mean, like I said, I was lucky. 00:28:12.609 --> 00:28:18.979 I came in from the community, so there were a lot of times when I was butting heads with her care team, it was. 00:28:19.644 --> 00:28:21.324 Me going, hi. 00:28:21.564 --> 00:28:28.013 I know this is what it says to do, but you are not paying attention to this over here. 00:28:28.344 --> 00:28:38.544 And every now and then I'd go, I know my degree is only a PhD in quantum physics and I obviously am not the smart one in the room, but would you like to explain that in smaller, Yeah. 00:28:38.723 --> 00:28:39.144 Yeah. 00:28:39.473 --> 00:28:43.044 and I, I may have thrown that physics degree a couple times around. 00:28:44.378 --> 00:28:45.849 But like she had a speech therapist. 00:28:45.849 --> 00:28:48.549 She was like, we have to focus on the tone of her voice. 00:28:48.549 --> 00:28:58.159 And I'm like, she can't annunciate words yet That person couldn't say my first name and don't accept the boundary called I am not your child. 00:28:58.159 --> 00:29:04.548 Can you please stop using my middle name and can you please stop trying to have a Latina accent please? 00:29:04.548 --> 00:29:05.328 It's just weird. 00:29:05.868 --> 00:29:09.409 Just weird, freaking weird and disturbing. 00:29:10.409 --> 00:29:15.749 I finally convinced them you need to be working on the fact she can't say cat, and you're concerned. 00:29:15.749 --> 00:29:17.519 Her voice is too high pitched. 00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:20.288 One of these is important in life. 00:29:20.318 --> 00:29:25.554 And a few of the parents I've talked to at dance are like, wait, you can come in and go, Hmm. 00:29:25.898 --> 00:29:27.308 I cannot understand my child. 00:29:28.538 --> 00:29:29.739 Let's think this through. 00:29:30.443 --> 00:29:31.824 Yeah, yeah. 00:29:31.828 --> 00:29:42.294 You, you, you touched on something very important because, you know, most parents don't really realize that, don't know that, you know, even in, in the school systems where IEPs it is the same way. 00:29:42.294 --> 00:29:50.064 I just, you know, watched, been in meetings where it's, it's, you know, parents don't really understand and, but I do notice though when parents have like an advocate. 00:29:51.189 --> 00:29:54.338 Or they have an attorney, but particularly an advocate that the county knows. 00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:56.618 Oh, it's attention. 00:29:56.828 --> 00:29:59.348 What, what you, what, what you, oh, you like this, you want this? 00:29:59.378 --> 00:29:59.979 Oh, okay. 00:29:59.979 --> 00:30:00.278 Yeah. 00:30:00.278 --> 00:30:01.118 And I'm just like, oh. 00:30:01.598 --> 00:30:15.669 But then other parents who don't understand their rights, don't know their rights, you know, they get kind of like, what they call it, the wool pulled over their eyes or something, you know, like they just, they just get the, so you're right, you're right. 00:30:17.034 --> 00:30:23.304 We have a school system around here who's telling parents they don't get a copy of the IEP and I'm like, hi. 00:30:24.743 --> 00:30:28.163 Hand it over and the parents are like, they didn't even bat an eye. 00:30:28.163 --> 00:30:29.003 And I am like, yeah. 00:30:29.034 --> 00:30:36.048 'cause I've had 20 years of experience that when I walk through the door, I'm bringing the attorney, they don't wanna speak to me, Hmm. 00:30:36.233 --> 00:30:38.933 they want me outta there as quickly as humanly possible. 00:30:39.933 --> 00:30:40.594 that's horrible. 00:30:40.864 --> 00:30:42.364 You know, like, yes. 00:30:42.604 --> 00:30:42.933 Yes. 00:30:44.134 --> 00:30:48.574 At least I am not the attorney who's on a first name basis with their attorney. 00:30:48.574 --> 00:30:54.814 We do have an attorney in town that I am pretty sure his entire paycheck is based off that one school system. 00:30:55.058 --> 00:30:56.284 It's, Wow. 00:30:56.794 --> 00:30:57.094 Hmm. 00:30:57.469 --> 00:30:59.734 but it's because, I mean. 00:31:00.409 --> 00:31:11.999 It goes back to they're not experts themselves and they come up with some of the dumbest things, not just with autism, where you're like, hi, if we could just think this through, Yeah. 00:31:12.419 --> 00:31:15.838 Do you, are you seeing that in other places throughout the nation by chance? 00:31:16.138 --> 00:31:25.364 there's a few school districts throughout the nation that it's like, just think this through 'cause it's not. 00:31:26.364 --> 00:31:27.564 That complicated. 00:31:28.374 --> 00:31:28.763 Mm-hmm. 00:31:29.064 --> 00:31:44.034 But I think sometimes the parents are so convinced that the educators have gotten an education, they have not gotten on the science behind autism, um, that they give in. 00:31:44.034 --> 00:31:47.933 'cause they're so overwhelmed with all this. 00:31:47.933 -->

00:31:50.963 And it's like, um, yeah. 00:31:51.503 --> 00:31:58.284 And then the educators are overwhelmed because what they're doing isn't necessarily the best option out there. 00:31:58.749 --> 00:31:59.019 Yeah. 00:31:59.019 --> 00:32:03.429 And I, I do have to say that I'm not trying to beat up on definitely teachers, you know? 00:32:03.429 --> 00:32:14.828 It is, it's uh, it's not their fault, you know, for the most part, you know, they don't design school systems, they don't design anything, you know, so it is a lot of factors that are just totally overwhelming. 00:32:16.134 --> 00:32:22.888 I mean, it takes developmental pediatrician and behavioral psychiatrist, 18 years to become an expert in, uh, autism. 00:32:23.798 --> 00:32:24.878 Yeah, that is true. 00:32:25.628 --> 00:32:30.278 you're not going to become an expert in autism in four years without those classes. 00:32:30.278 --> 00:32:35.648 I mean, the people who are experts are all autistic themselves, let's be honest. 00:32:36.648 --> 00:32:47.243 I mean, but you're talking neurologist, you're talking behavioral psychiatrist who went to get a psychiatry degree and then went on to get a degree in how behaviors actually work, and then went on to get a degree in autism specific. 00:32:48.499 --> 00:32:52.548 That's your entire adult life practically before you go work with anyone. 00:32:53.098 --> 00:32:53.388 Yeah. 00:32:53.394 --> 00:32:54.663 Yeah, you're right about that. 00:32:54.739 --> 00:32:59.028 can't expect teachers who are in school for like four years. 00:32:59.419 --> 00:33:04.338 To even scratch the surface of any of this. 00:33:04.398 --> 00:33:17.808 Um, we had, I had one teacher who's like, she honestly did not know how an A a C could help a child communicate, and no one had taken the time to explain to her what an A a C was. 00:33:17.898 --> 00:33:22.249 And so she had banned it from the classroom and couldn't figure out why the child wasn't speaking to her. 00:33:22.699 --> 00:33:23.269 Oh wow. 00:33:24.019 --> 00:33:28.249 Good And the parents were like, but the teacher says it's distracting. 00:33:28.249 --> 00:33:30.409 And I'm like, what's more distracting here? 00:33:30.588 --> 00:33:32.088 Not talking to the child. 00:33:33.213 --> 00:33:33.933 About what grade? 00:33:33.993 --> 00:33:34.203 What? 00:33:34.324 --> 00:33:35.344 What grade was that? 00:33:35.433 --> 00:33:36.034 What grade level? 00:33:36.229 --> 00:33:37.278 It was kindergarten. 00:33:37.548 --> 00:33:41.749 It was the first, yeah, it, was the first a a C the teacher had ever seen. 00:33:41.749 --> 00:33:44.179 And she's like, well, she can just leave her iPad at home. 00:33:44.854 --> 00:33:45.394 oh, wow. 00:33:45.394 --> 00:33:47.794 I thought it was more like middle school or high school. 00:33:47.794 --> 00:33:51.183 I mean middle schoolers, but that's, yeah, that's critical. 00:33:51.453 --> 00:33:53.913 I found, you know, fundamentally foundational. 00:33:54.903 --> 00:34:03.919 They Oh, but no one had bothered to tell this teacher, this isn't just a normal iPad this child is bringing. 00:34:04.368 --> 00:34:04.659 Okay. 00:34:05.449 --> 00:34:09.918 And she thought she was doing what was best 'cause she's like, well, screen time is bad. 00:34:09.918 --> 00:34:10.128 I'm like, yeah. 00:34:11.298 --> 00:34:14.119 Assuming that's not how you speak to the world. 00:34:14.179 --> 00:34:16.608 And she's like, wait, what are you talking about? 00:34:16.608 --> 00:34:20.688 I'm like, do you even know, um, what this is? 00:34:20.688 --> 00:34:24.829 I remember when I was in third grade, I had a friend who was hard of hearing. 00:34:24.829 --> 00:34:25.969 I'm hard of hearing. 00:34:26.088 --> 00:34:29.778 Um, our teacher, she was more hard of hearing than me. 00:34:29.778 --> 00:34:30.704 Our teacher was return. 00:34:31.563 --> 00:34:38.014 Grades and she tried to give her the okay sign, not realizing that that's okay in the hearing world. 00:34:38.253 --> 00:34:47.054 She just told my friend that she'd gotten an F on the test, but she hadn't ever been told that that's the okay signal for the hearing world. 00:34:47.083 --> 00:34:51.344 And she was, the teacher was devastated going, no, you got an A plus. 00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:52.619 Yeah, yeah. 00:34:52.619 --> 00:34:59.648 You, you bring up a point where, so when I started the, the school, we transitioned to a research center. 00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:15.009 And so the plan, you know, became taking the research and using the school as opportunity to, you know, provide documentation and evidence and so we can leverage and advocate, you know, and, and, and, and, and, you know. 00:35:15.443 --> 00:35:19.824 Create policy or advocate for policy that would impact the, you know, the whole nation. 00:35:20.514 --> 00:35:34.614 And, you know, and so there, there's a need for research, you know, and, and, and hopefully that will drive, but within school systems, um, not school systems within, uh, education departments on universities that's preparing teachers. 00:35:35.123 --> 00:35:40.793 You know, there's, um, you know, there's, there's no content, you know, around this, you know. 00:35:41.273 --> 00:35:56.184 And when you talk about neurodiversity, there's no like legislation, you know, codified from federal, state, local that recognizes the word, the term, you know, and let alone like teaching strategies and practices. 00:35:56.184 --> 00:36:06.858 So yeah, these are some of the major, you know, systematic things that really, you know, I look forward to, um, seeing cha, you know, change over the next, I don't know, five to 10 years. 00:36:07.858 --> 00:36:10.963 That's one thing I am annoying some of the parents, I think. 00:36:10.963 --> 00:36:15.164 'cause we're getting a lot of data out of the dance studio and they're like, Ooh. 00:36:15.958 --> 00:36:16.619 What are you doing? 00:36:16.619 --> 00:36:20.759 I'm like, I am calling friends up, going, hi, would you like a paper?

00:36:20.759 --> 00:36:22.168 I don't have time to write it. 00:36:22.168 --> 00:36:29.699 And it's not my field, but like we've got kids who are starting to speak after dancing for three months. 00:36:29.699 --> 00:36:36.389 And I'm like, okay, well the bio evolutionary biologist are saying dance is language. 00:36:36.389 --> 00:36:37.228 Maybe we could. 00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:44.820 Go a little further, and these parents are going to their teachers and their teachers are like, what's evolutionary biology? 00:36:44.820 --> 00:36:48.239 And I'm like, that's what we, you know, up at the college world, call it. 00:36:48.539 --> 00:36:48.829 Mm-hmm. 00:36:48.909 --> 00:36:49.269 Mm-hmm. 00:36:50.289 --> 00:36:51.014 That's interesting. 00:36:51.014 --> 00:36:52.125 I didn't think about that. 00:36:52.514 --> 00:36:53.269 I didn't think about that because. 00:36:54.269 --> 00:36:59.429 At our school, we use, um, adaptive rec, you know, program. 00:36:59.489 --> 00:37:07.108 And I, and I use that from the beginning as far as like basketball was my sport, but we use it, integrating it with like positive behavior support. 00:37:07.438 --> 00:37:17.039 And so like from a biological, physiological standpoint and, and, and a, like a neurodevelopmental standpoint, you know, that, that physical movement. 00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:19.409 Now you, you really have me thinking, you know. 00:37:20.324 --> 00:37:23.594 I may have to come out there and, and visit a studio or visit a performance. 00:37:23.625 --> 00:37:27.195 I would love to see it because I can only imagine what's going on. 00:37:28.394 --> 00:37:39.014 And all the good, uh, studies being done on night are like, nor over in Norway and Sweden and Denmark, and I'm like, could we get someone over here in the US to do this study? 00:37:39.449 --> 00:37:40.815 Yeah, that's funny. 00:37:40.905 --> 00:37:46.664 I was in Sweden, uh, a couple years ago and I didn't get time. 00:37:47.219 --> 00:37:50.128 To to do like research on autism and connect with anybody. 00:37:50.128 --> 00:37:57.809 But yeah, I can see not even the autism researchers coming up with it, it's the evolutionary biologist. 00:37:57.809 --> 00:38:11.818 And I hate giving them their dues 'cause you know, they're the baby science, We went 40 minutes, so they usually come up with a good chunk of stuff for humans in the medical fields. 00:38:12.469 --> 00:38:23.088 And this is just being sad at this point, that the evolutionary biologist is coming up with more, this is how certain medical things work than the medical field. 00:38:23.329 --> 00:38:25.068 This is just sad at this point. 00:38:25.068 --> 00:38:26.179 This is just sad. 00:38:26.509 --> 00:38:29.239 What medical field, you know, their whole job is this. 00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:31.684 She, she is used to hanging. 00:38:32.188 --> 00:38:37.018 Around a bunch of professors, so she gets to hear about that academia hierarchy. 00:38:37.755 --> 00:38:39.045 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:38:39.134 --> 00:38:43.480 I mean that, you know, you're touching on something very, very important. 00:38:43.710 --> 00:38:44.400 Very important. 00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:51.769 But, um, I mean, I think it would be good to look into this, but these are. 00:38:52.570 --> 00:38:58.059 Papers that no teacher, I mean, they have way too much else on their plate. 00:38:58.059 --> 00:39:02.050 They're not going down the rabbit hole of, oh, what are the evolutionary biologists saying about dance? 00:39:03.489 --> 00:39:04.059 No, no. 00:39:04.059 --> 00:39:07.210 Teachers just don't, we don't have the bandwidth to do anything like that. 00:39:07.329 --> 00:39:16.869 Um, but it, it's, you know, it is gonna take groups, it's gonna take, you know, you know, groups and associations. 00:39:17.260 --> 00:39:25.085 You know, there should be some teacher associations that transition, you know, into that space, you know, and, um, that can help advocate and support. 00:39:26.065 --> 00:39:32.905 We, we, we created some fellowship programs for teachers and provided them with instruction, uh, from instructional design standpoint. 00:39:33.835 --> 00:39:41.125 And we look forward to the transition to, you know, beyond the instructional piece, you know, in the academics, you know. 00:39:42.125 --> 00:39:45.840 So you were discussing, uh, the research part of everything. 00:39:45.900 --> 00:39:46.590 Uh, can you. 00:39:46.710 --> 00:39:47.159 Go. 00:39:47.670 --> 00:39:54.019 I know we're starting to get towards the end of time and we are definitely gonna have to have you back again, Ken, if you're okay with Oh yeah, please. 00:39:54.019 --> 00:39:55.369 I, I, I appreciate it. 00:39:55.969 --> 00:40:00.079 But just, um, you, you wanted to, uh, talk about just the research piece. 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:01.199 Yeah. 00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:08.130 And like what, um, that's all about and how that can be applied. 00:40:08.610 --> 00:40:11.309 I know that's probably a whole podcast in and of itself. 00:40:11.610 --> 00:40:21.769 Yeah, but just to summarize it, I, I actually, I was a, um, there's a program de funded by the department of, uh, energy called, um, uh, Albert Einstein, distinguished Educators. 00:40:22.010 --> 00:40:34.369 And so it's a fellowship for, that's been around over 30 years and it brings STEM educators to Washington, DC So I was able to participate in that program somewhere around 2021. 00:40:35.059 --> 00:40:37.849 And so I spent time on Capitol Hill as a legislative fellow. 00:40:38.420 --> 00:40:47.659 And, you know, got a lot of pro professional development and I saw that there was a disconnect between the practice of education, research, and then policy and legislation. 00:40:48.260 --> 00:41:03.800 And so when I came back, um, uh, I, I decided to take the organization to a slight pivot to a research center with the goal to con, you know, to, to take what we're doing, document it, publish, you know, and, and our research. 00:41:04.340 --> 00:41:11.809 And

advocate, you know, um, for policy, you know, legislation, you know, to, to have a huge, a larger, a larger impact. 00:41:11.960 --> 00:41:24.320 And so we were able to secure a National Science Foundation grant in partnership with Arizona State, uh, for a program that looked at computational thinking instructional models for, for neurodivergent individuals. 00:41:24.739 --> 00:41:25.460 And that was great. 00:41:25.460 --> 00:41:29.150 You know, we, we learned a lot and we were able to be exposed to the research world. 00:41:29.719 --> 00:41:29.900 Um. 00:41:30.545 --> 00:41:39.605 But now what we wanna do is, uh, focus on one of our, our programs, which is A-P-B-I-S program that's integrated with therapy, with behavior therapy, actually. 00:41:40.295 --> 00:41:50.465 But we have a unique model that we use in our school setting, and we want to, uh, we want to look at the, the impact of how, like what you're talking about in your center. 00:41:50.945 --> 00:41:58.835 You know, you know, these, these practices and these, I don't wanna say alternative, but I guess maybe they're, but they're based on science. 00:41:59.585 --> 00:42:01.985 And, and, and, and, but we, we know that it works. 00:42:02.255 --> 00:42:05.885 You know, we're seeing the impact, we're seeing a change in our, in our students. 00:42:06.394 --> 00:42:17.255 And so, you know, we want to document that, um, as well as continue with providing training and professional development for teachers, um, and, and school leaders. 00:42:17.855 --> 00:42:21.184 And so there's that, the consideration of a traditional approach. 00:42:21.724 --> 00:42:25.355 But what we're realizing, and we talked on it, talked about it, there's also. 00:42:26.164 --> 00:42:32.644 A non-traditional approach that has to, that we have to take, um, with this kind of, this kind of movement. 00:42:33.304 --> 00:42:38.375 'cause the traditional approach is getting us what we currently have. 00:42:39.034 --> 00:42:42.155 And so we don't want to be, you know, too alternative. 00:42:42.155 --> 00:42:50.405 But we, we, we may do some, you know, do some different things, but also we're in a position to just be ahead of the curve, you know? 00:42:50.405 --> 00:42:53.614 So when we first started the school, the term no diversity didn't exist. 00:42:54.500 --> 00:43:08.059 And now, you know, almost 10 years later, there's a, you know, there's a, the word, the language, but more importantly the perception, the beliefs, you know, the understanding about capacities of individuals have changed. 00:43:08.420 --> 00:43:12.289 And also, you know, from a mental health standpoint, from a social emotional standpoint. 00:43:12.769 --> 00:43:19.219 And so we anticipate for the next five to 10 years that society will catch up, you know, also, and, and shift. 00:43:19.909 --> 00:43:26.300 And things will just naturally progress, you know, um, to be in a line, you know, with our, our mission and our vision. 00:43:27.300 --> 00:43:34.739 I am kind of curious, and this is just probably, you know, the crazy scientist in me who's always curious about stuff. 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:50.519 What would happen if we took the way we're teaching, like at the dance studio and the way you guys are finding stuff in the research center and applied it to the neurotypical students, would it, I mean, and that's just. 00:43:51.429 --> 00:43:57.880 Me going, maybe what we're doing is leading education into the direction it needs to be for all the kids. 00:43:58.914 --> 00:43:59.335 Yeah. 00:43:59.425 --> 00:44:22.434 And in some aspects of it may just be re return to the original ways of, of, of, of educating, you know, kids, which is, you know, prior to, you know, like the industrial revolution, you know, prior to, you know, prior to, you know, large school systems where schools were more like, you know, school, like homes, you know, house, you know, you know, like, you know, people had schools out of their house. 00:44:23.304 --> 00:44:37.795 Smaller, more intimate, you know, you know, and so like from a neurological standpoint, from a social emotional standpoint, you're able to build those, you know, positive, like, you know, connections and feel that, you know, feel that energy. 00:44:38.454 --> 00:44:52.289 But when you talk about that dance, and I just didn't see it, I didn't think about it before, but the combination of the music and the movements, you know, and then if you're singing, you know, like you're, you're tapping into something so positive. 00:44:53.199 --> 00:45:01.719 And I, and I was reading, reading a, a book today about that the, the, the benefits just of being in a positive environment as it relates to learning. 00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:18.099 You know, you, you know, so if you're in a positive environment like that and then you infuse some type of learning, you know, that's going to escalate, that's going to increase, you know, the ability to learn compared to if you were in an environment where you were scared for your safety, unfortunately. 00:45:18.730 --> 00:45:18.969 Right. 00:45:18.969 --> 00:45:19.074 So, yeah. 00:45:20.570 --> 00:45:28.130 I know I've annoyed a few of our parents 'cause outside of the amazing, uh, strides our kids are making with speaking and like following instructions. 00:45:28.644 --> 00:45:29.244 And stuff. 00:45:29.304 --> 00:45:38.905 Um, a lot of times they are actually progressing in their dance studies faster than their neurotypical counterparts and their parents will be like, really excited. 00:45:38.905 --> 00:45:39.655 They did something. 00:45:39.655 --> 00:45:42.594 And our dance teachers are like, hold that thought. 00:45:42.594 --> 00:45:45.864 That usually takes a neurotypical dancer three years to learn. 00:45:45.864 --> 00:45:48.204 And your kid learned it in like four months. 00:45:48.204 --> 00:45:48.295 Nice. 00:45:48.594 --> 00:45:49.989 them be naive. 00:45:50.295 --> 00:45:50.715 Mm-hmm. 00:45:50.769 --> 00:45:52.809 telling you,

well just let them be naive. 00:45:53.809 --> 00:46:05.135 She's just like, let the parents be naive, but it's like You need to remember the difference between dance world and the rest of society, or the difference between congress world and the rest of society. 00:46:06.275 --> 00:46:09.929 And the only one reminding you there is such thing that two different here. 00:46:10.929 --> 00:46:16.269 but I'm wonder, I've been wondering over the last like years we're looking at this, if having. 00:46:17.269 --> 00:46:31.760 early class preschool and early, um, fundamental dance classes, instead of having 10 to 25 5 year olds in a class, if having two to three would make things a lot easier on the children learning. 00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:32.699 Oh yeah. 00:46:32.938 --> 00:46:37.755 I, I, I always advocate for the small environments, but I also, I advocate for both. 00:46:38.869 --> 00:46:46.489 You know, to, to, you know, like, to maybe have those, those both opportunities, you know, so the larger environment. 00:46:46.878 --> 00:46:49.429 Then also that additional separate small environment. 00:46:49.878 --> 00:47:00.768 And so then that's, you know, what I, that's where I, that's what I call inclusion, you know, like, so you want, you, you want them to, that's the goal, the larger environment, right? 00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:06.809 Um, so, but you, they just need some, maybe they benefit, you know, from that, you know, you know that, um. 00:47:07.684 --> 00:47:17.253 That small environment and, you know, whatever time it takes, if it takes a year, if it takes five years, if they never transition, okay, whatever. 00:47:17.253 --> 00:47:18.273 It doesn't make a difference. 00:47:18.664 --> 00:47:22.565 But just my whole philosophy is really just providing, providing opportunities. 00:47:22.565 --> 00:47:36.184 That's all we could, that's all we could control as, as educators and as you know, um, you know, trainers or, um, coaches, like that's all we can provide is an opportunity and a fear chance, you know, for, for, for students to. 00:47:36.860 --> 00:47:37.789 Reach their potential. 00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:48.380 And like you said, when when you give, I, what, what I've found is when you give, you know, individuals that are neuro diversion, a fair chance, a fair chance in a positive environment. 00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:54.139 Listen, I I got too many stories and, and, and I've seen some amazing things. 00:47:54.289 --> 00:47:57.530 I've seen some things, and I'm sure you've heard and seen with your own eyes. 00:47:58.190 --> 00:47:59.809 There's some, there's some greatness. 00:47:59.809 --> 00:48:01.369 And we're not talking about superpower. 00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:03.889 I mean, yeah, people say superpower, but there's some greatness. 00:48:04.309 --> 00:48:11.713 It really is and, and once you see that a couple times, you know for sure like, oh, this, this is something, this is, there's something going on. 00:48:12.713 --> 00:48:13.170 Oh yeah. 00:48:13.170 --> 00:48:14.134 And they may be. 00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:20.110 Crazy, uh, to the rest of the world, but something is going on. 00:48:20.605 --> 00:48:21.039 Something's. 00:48:21.594 --> 00:48:24.639 minutes if you don't want this to go hour. 00:48:24.940 --> 00:48:25.255 Mm-hmm. 00:48:25.394 --> 00:48:25.815 Mm-hmm. 00:48:26.114 --> 00:48:27.250 I mean, yeah, you raised me. 00:48:28.570 --> 00:48:31.659 We would love to have you back on the show again if you're okay with it. 00:48:32.304 --> 00:48:32.514 Yeah. 00:48:32.514 --> 00:48:38.500 Yeah, I, I definitely, I definitely if, but before I go, can I add Leta one question, Sure. 00:48:39.914 --> 00:48:43.735 Leta, I noticed, you know, you have a story, but I just, one quick question. 00:48:43.735 --> 00:48:45.565 How do you remain so positive? 00:48:45.864 --> 00:48:48.864 You know, you know, how do you remain so positive? 00:48:49.864 --> 00:48:51.309 I am really good at dark humor. 00:48:51.909 --> 00:48:52.360 Yeah. 00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:55.009 I have to work on humor myself. 00:48:55.579 --> 00:48:58.744 You know, I need to get a little, a little bit of that from you. 00:48:59.744 --> 00:49:05.000 I think, um, sometimes because she did grow up with people who. 00:49:05.059 --> 00:49:09.210 Not camera between the academia and her dad's military friend. 00:49:09.210 --> 00:49:11.309 She learned rock humor fixes everything. 00:49:11.730 --> 00:49:12.269 Oh, yeah. 00:49:12.510 --> 00:49:12.989 Oh yeah. 00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:14.099 Yeah. 00:49:14.099 --> 00:49:19.554 but before we let you go, can you tell people where to find out more about your work and where to find your new book? 00:49:20.219 --> 00:49:20.880 Yeah, yeah. 00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:23.280 I'm located on kenneth mims.com. 00:49:23.940 --> 00:49:31.619 Um, and you can just, you know, um, uh, go to website, um, learn more information about my background, about the book. 00:49:32.070 --> 00:49:42.255 And actually we have a, a free, uh, parent course, uh, and, and, uh, community, um, that we, that we've created and, um, always, you know, looking forward opportunities to speak. 00:49:42.869 --> 00:49:53.565 So if you're ever looking for people, looking for a speaker, um, I, I love, you know, I love talking about this work and, and just wanna help people and, um, yeah. 00:49:53.844 --> 00:49:54.565 I appreciate you. 00:49:55.565 --> 00:49:58.894 Well, we will have all that in the description below. 00:49:58.954 --> 00:50:00.364 Thank you again for your time today, Ken. 00:50:01.005 --> 00:50:01.855 Alright, thank you. 00:50:02.855 --> 00:50:03.065 All right. 00:50:03.896 --> 00:50:18.626 Okay, well thank you for watching the podcast and please subscribe and also look at the Adorable, don't You watch, subscribe Forward and also please like, and don't pick it if you'll to us, if you'll miss any of our new podcast. 00:50:19.405 --> 00:50:22.465 And also you see the Adorable, don't you like it?