สำเนาบทสนทนา 🔗
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:00:00]:
Motherhood is forever. Being a mother is forever. You can be all sorts of things and then not be those things, but a mother is forever.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:00:14]:
I'm Erika.
Amri Kibbler [00:00:16]:
And I'm Amri.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:00:17]:
This is Leaning Into Being, the show that allows you to be your all so you can give your all.
Amri Kibbler [00:00:22]:
Brought to you by Hello Mamas and HeyMama. Okay, we can't wait to have Dr. Ryger's energy on this morning to lift us up. And we really need to bring this in for ourselves this week and manifesting positivity and confidence and good energy and all those things. So you're our perfect guest for today.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:00:42]:
Okay, so this is what I do with live people I work with. We go, calm down.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:00:50]:
Love it.
Amri Kibbler [00:00:52]:
Can we do it again?
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:00:54]:
Calm down.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:01:06]:
Feeling good.
Amri Kibbler [00:01:08]:
That was a good call.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:01:09]:
I love it.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:01:11]:
We all needed it.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:01:12]:
We did. We really did.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:01:14]:
We're here together. Right?
Amri Kibbler [00:01:15]:
We're thrilled to be here with you this morning. We always like to start out our conversations by centering ourselves in motherhood, which is this shared experience experience that we have with all of our guests. So could you share with us where you are in your motherhood journey and what that has been like for you?
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:01:36]:
I love answering this question. The first thing that I'm going to say before I tell you where my pin lands on the mama map is that motherhood is forever. Being a mother is forever. You can be all sorts of things and then not be those things, but a mother is forever. And I say that I have a 33-year-old daughter and a 30-year-old daughter and I still get the mom calls and just wanted to talk to you or I wanted to. I know if anyone who has teenagers, this can happen too, a little bit later on. I just wanted to ask your advice about something. All of a sudden you've got a string of wisdom.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:02:27]:
So this is where I am in my motherhood, in my motherhood track right now. And it is the most extraordinary, demanding time and also laughing together literally until the tears are running down our faces and just having the best time together and figuring it out. And one other thing to add, which I think is so important is relationships are juicy. Relationships are juicy. And in that juice comes feeling frustrated, feeling angry, always loving someone, maybe not liking them at that moment. And when you can ride it and know that it's for now, it's not forever, although it may feel like forever in that moment that you can get to another space and level with it. But the juiciness is always there.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:03:30]:
We know that for sure. Dr. Iger, you work with women, especially mothers, what initially drew you to your practice in psychology and the deep and impactful way that you work with both women and mothers?
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:03:48]:
Women and mothers are the space of need. And I'm sure we're going to be talking about this later on, but there's so much that's expected of us and that we also want to give. And I love how you talk about being able to be connected with ourselves and really being able to get what we need so that we can give all we would like to give. And so from my end, being able to really listen intently to what that woman. And these are women who may be mothers already. They may be thinking about becoming mothers. They may be coming into my office, as they call it, the mama bumps that are growing in time. And as much as you can prepare, there's just so much else that comes at us that we can't prepare for.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:04:44]:
And particularly I think, for women, when we really do our best to anticipate, right? We try to anticipate needs, we try to anticipate where can things go wonky, right? What sorts of things get the. But gets the bus on the sidewalk. And we try to anticipate that so we can get in there and work with that. It just doesn't happen with parenting. There's so much that happens that we can't possibly predict. But here's what's important to note, is that one of the constants that we have is ourselves. We may not know what's going to happen in this situation. We can't predict those sorts of things, but we can have a grounding, a knowing and a trusting in ourselves.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:05:39]:
And I'll just add, but we're not going to get into this right now, that sometimes what happens is that through our own upbringing, societal messages, demands on us, our expectations of ourselves, that there's so much that can happen internally with the best of intentions that we really need that help and grounding and making sense of and then taking sense and understanding into action. And that's the space that I love. That is the space that I love. And I want to be super clear right now that understanding also needs action, but action also needs understanding. And it's when we integrate those two, and I'm going like this very specifically because we need to integrate those two. That when we have understanding and intentional action, that's really the spaces where we get to know trust and really build a very different kind of confidence in ourselves. And that's what I love to bring to women and to moms.
Amri Kibbler [00:06:56]:
That's Beautiful. I'd love to dive a little deeper into that and direct the conversation over to this idea of understanding the feminine experience. And you talk about something called the four Fs of the feminine. I would love for you to share more about those and how they impact women.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:07:19]:
Okay, ladies, let's go. There are other Fs, but I left it at 4. Okay, so we're the finders, the feelers, the fixers,
Load full transcript
and the freelancers. So what does that mean, the finders? How does it happen that the broccoli hides in the refrigerator but then calls your name? Right? We are there to find, and it's extraordinary. It's really quite an extraordinary thing. And the other thing is that what makes it even better is that you don't even have to be in the house when people are calling you to find out where something is. So that's the finders. We're the fixers.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:08:01]:
Whatever is happening, we need to fix it, right? We take care of it. We fix it. So that's another role. And then the feelers, we are often the emotional center. We are the heartbeat of the home, and that's where we come in. We are, like, I call it the emotional Sherpas. And for people who aren't familiar with Sherpas, they're the people who are, like, lugging the stuff and guiding the way to get you up the Himalayas. And we are oftentimes the emotional carriers for ourselves and for our families.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:08:38]:
Going up the Himalayas of newbornhood, toddlerhood, going off to school, every stage of the way. And then we're the freelancers, which means that all the stuff that no one else does comes to us. It's one of those things. It's like we're the family task rabbit. And so those four Fs are ones that really need to be looked into differently and really brought attention to, because although that may be the implicit, like the stuff, that people really don't say that this is your job, but it's an assumption. And oftentimes we step up to assumption and just hop in there because we want to be. I'm not so sure. I'm not so thrilled about finding broccoli.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:09:33]:
Somebody else I know can find the broccoli. But we want to be of help. We want to be supportive. We want to be nurturing. We want to be giving. That can be intrinsic, inherent to how we experience ourselves, either what we did get or what we didn't get. So we want to make sure that we give it. But what can be assumed also needs to Be looked at and questioned.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:10:01]:
Oh, my gosh. Is so true. It is definitely resonating with me and especially the finders. I love that getting that phone call. Where is this? Or like, I always used to joke when I find something, or it's in the refrigerator and you're like, it's on the bottom shelf behind this. In front of you. Right in front of you. I want to double-click into.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:10:22]:
You mentioned earlier societal norms and societal myths. I'd love to hear you explain the myth of unlimited capacity and how it's rooted in societal expectations and how you help women overcome some of those societal myths.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:10:43]:
One of the things we hear so many times is about women feeling like they're not enough. And whether they're saying it or whether they're not saying it, thankfully, with platforms like hello Mama, that women are finding it much more easy and much safer and more supportive to be able to go. You know, I just feel like I'm blowing it. I just feel like I can't. I just feel. And it's not just. Just is how we minimize. Just is a minimizing word, but we use it very specifically.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:11:22]:
It's like taking it back a little bit. So there is this expectation that we have unlimited capacity and oftentimes the hidden message. And it depends where you are generationally also. But the hidden message can be, you said you wanted to work and be a mom. Here it is. This is what it looks like. And so we know that when your kid gets a birthday invitation, it's not just, oh, you're going to so and so's birthday party. That's where your mission begins.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:12:06]:
Right? Okay, so you've got a birthday party. Is it a theme birthday party? Do you need something? Who is the kid? How are you getting there? How does it work with all the other schedules? Who's going to get the gift? How are you going to get picked up? Do they know that you have an allergy? It is a massive undertaking in granularity. We get granular. And so it's one of those spaces that we think that we should be able to. And when things keep getting thrown at us or put in front of us or asked of us, there's a sense that we should be able to do it. And this notion of unlimited capacity we oftentimes do not have. I want to be really clear that there are not enemies here. And we're socialized differently.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:13:09]:
And where our power and control comes in is when we can begin and continue to recognize that socialization process that either happens with words or it happens very powerfully. Also not in words. So if so, and so is asking me to do that, I should be able to do that. But oftentimes there's just to start off this notion of he just came home from work and he's got da, da, da, da, da. And also that. And so, no, there is a different level of respect and expectation of capacity for people who can't see. I have two beautiful, amazing, brilliant women in front of me who are nodding their heads.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:13:58]:
You're missing the head nod, but you're not in there with us. I can feel it. I know it. And so we can start to feel shame about that. We can start to retreat. We can feel like we need to keep stepping up. And that's where we fall into danger of really being overwhelmed. And it's not because you're not enough.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:14:24]:
It is because it is too much. It is unacceptable. And I'm going to throw in one of my pet peeves and I'm writing about this also, is that sometimes when we get irritated or we feel frustrated or we're feeling just despondent, and what we oftentimes say is, I'm only human, right? I'm only human. And that becomes a reason or an excuse or a default of kind of shame a little bit. And here's the thing is that what's our other option? Being human is not second best. Being human is the space of strength and growth, and it helps make us really the caring, engaging, relating, competent, capable
people that we are. But being human does not mean limitless. There are times that we can choose to take things on that we know are going to stretch us and that we know that they're going to come and bite us on the behind sometimes.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:15:43]:
But we can be aware of that. But the notion that we should be limitless and that we have unlimited capacity is just one that really needs to be a piece of mythology. Just like we may love a unicorn, but we also know that it doesn't exist.
Amri Kibbler [00:16:01]:
Oh, man. What you were saying really resonated with me last night. I totally hit my capacity, and I was like, you know what? I'm going in my room for an hour, and I don't want to talk to anyone. I'm off duty. And I just, like, shut the door. And I was like, okay, I just need to breathe here. Because we aren't limitless. And the task just keeps getting piled up and piled up on our shoulders.
Amri Kibbler [00:16:26]:
And we're like, okay, I got to get it done. I got to get it done. And we just keep perpetuating the cycle of doing everything for all the people around us, and it's never-ending. I wanted to ask about something I've heard you talk about that sounds so interesting. The land of and. And what does it mean for women to live in the land of and, and how are some ways that we can navigate under this pressure that we've been talking about this theme?
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:16:56]:
I love the land of and. One of the things I love to do is, is I love to go into spaces that I don't have language yet to capture it right. And that oftentimes what happens is that we as women, as, we're finding out in all of these different ways that there are models and ways that are typical and average and normative for males, but they're being pasted onto us like an overlay, and we don't work that way. It's not the model. That is our model. And oftentimes that's the model that we're compared to. And what I am talking about and work on in my practice with all the people that I see and I'm writing about is that women live in the land of and meaning that we are. Oftentimes we hear, what hat are you wearing now? Which means, what role are you in now? We are ands.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:17:58]:
We are always mothers and daughters and sisters and aunties and spouses and friends and neighbors and CEOs and CFOs and any C that you want to be. And we are all of that, all the time. But what happens is that we focus our energy and our attention on the task at hand. And that is the difference. It's a focusing of our attention, but not that we stop being. Right. You're a mom and a daughter and a partner while you're also making up the business plan for the next year. And so this idea of what hat are you wearing now? Those hats are always there.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:18:58]:
We tilt. No one can see this, but we tilt our heads. The hats are always there. But what we focus on, the task at hand, is what shifts for us.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:19:09]:
Oh, my gosh. I'm going to be honest, Dr. Ryger, I'm feeling exhausted. Just like all of this stuff is bringing on, like. Yep, exactly. Yes. Yep. I wear that hat.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:19:19]:
Nope. Oh, my gosh. Now I'm like. It's like I'm seeing all this in front of me and I'm so tired.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:19:26]:
Yes.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:19:26]:
You know, so I'm going to shift the focus a little bit. I can't be the only one. I know. Amri is definitely shaking her head. Especially the week in the past few months that we've had both personally and professionally. For moms that are listening to this or women who are listening to this, how can we navigate and manage this fatigue? I mean, it's decision fatigue, it's emotional fatigue, it's relationship fatigue. It's all of the things. So share with us some ways to help navigate all the things.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:20:01]:
And all the things are constantly juggling the responsibilities, the hats, as you said. What can we do?
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:20:08]:
Great question. And here's where it starts. It's so important that in each and every one of you who's listening that you find out what your non-negotiables are. That's one piece of it. And one of the ways of finding out about non-negotiables is really coming to terms with not having unlimited capacity. It is so important to do that. And it's a tricky space. And this is what I will share with you that happened with me because it's insidious.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:20:52]:
So what happens is that we think we can do this, I can do that. As we look at it separately. So we have these, like micro. These micro-moments or these micro-tasks, and we go, well, I can do that and I can do that, and I can do that and I can do that. And what sometimes doesn't happen is that we don't really take into account the additive component of it. And so it's so important because we are competent and we are capable. And if it was just that task, the answer to that would be, of course, yes, well, of course I can do that. And of course I can do that.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:21:36]:
But that one is the additive component. Just like micro. Micro stressors. Micro stressors add up. And so it's no longer micro stressors if you add up enough of those. Like, you have to have 100 pennies to get to a dollar, but once you get to a dollar, you got a dollar. And the same thing happens with our stressors and the tasks that we take on. And it's so important to know when it's enough.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:22:07]:
And I'll share with you. I'll share with you. This is going back years ago after I had my first baby. Because we're talking about mamas. This is a great mama moment, and I think you'll relate to it. So we were having like a welcome party for my daughter. I am not a caterer. I am not in the catering business.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:22:26]:
I'm cooking. It's not my big thing. But for some reason, I got it in my head that I was going to make this luncheon, and it's like, well, green beans, I can dupe
green beans. Couscous, I can make couscous. Of course, I can make a chicken. All of that may maybe separately just could be doable. But when you start adding them up and I start asking for someone, I need 60, 16 pounds of green beans, you know, straight ones, not the ones that are all curled up. And we're adding all of that in, and then it's for 60 people, right? You see how this is growing? And there you have it.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:23:09]:
And so we come to a place of not knowing and not recognizing that if it's just green beans, course you can do green beans. You've done more than green beans. But when we start putting it all together in the level of demands that we have, and that also so much of what we do requires a certain level of decision making. Decision-making happens in the prefrontal cortex of your brain, and that is the spot that needs the most energy. These are not the things that we do en route. And so it's very important to really find out through knowing that you do not have unlimited capacity, and nor should you. And not sleeping. I just need five hours of sleep.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:24:07]:
You're not helping yourself and doing less and thinking that being more is a slippery slope of really bringing your best so that you can do your best. So this idea that I have my four Fs that need to be looked at, I do not have unlimited capacity, nor do I want to. And if you look at the realities of your life, what are the pieces that are your non-negotiables? And what is non-negotiable is pretty much non-negotiable. Right? And there may be a time that even a non-negotiable. Look, we have to be realistic. We have emergencies that happen. We need to step up. But not everything is an emergency.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:24:59]:
A kid forgetting their lunch isn't necessarily an emergency. And so we're on. Can do, will do. And there's something else that I say. Even though you can, doesn't mean you should. I'm going to repeat that. Even though you can, doesn't mean you should or that you have to.
Amri Kibbler [00:25:25]:
When you said that, I repeated it automatically in my brain because I was like, okay, this is one of those aha moments that we know we need to record here. Yes, that is so true. And so the reason that we created this podcast, specifically Leaning into Being, is because we wanted to create this authentic space to talk about what brings us joy, who we are as individuals and our unique Selves outside of all of those labels and all of those things that we have on our list. So we always like to ask, what is your unique place of being?
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:26:04]:
My unique place of being? Oh my gosh. First of all, I would invite each and every one of you to find something about yourself that you enjoy, that gives you joy, that you get a kick out of about yourself that, to find that spot. Because when I work with parents and I work with kids, there's so much that happens. It's like there's this problem and that problem and the other problem. And the problems are real and the problems are really important. And we're also more than that. And so one of the questions that I love to ask is what puts the twinkle in your child's eyes? And I would ask each and every one of you what puts the twinkle in your eyes? And what is it in yourself when you're spending time with yourself that you can have those moments of just enjoying? You can enjoy how you enjoy. You can get joy out of how you enjoy seeing the flowers come up in your yard or what a beautiful sunset is, right? You can get joy out of how you enjoy.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:27:24]:
You can get joy out of how you move. Movement, dancing, take a moment for yourself. And one of the things that I love and I lean into being is that, and this may sound a bit odd, but I really love challenge. And one of the reasons why I do is because I'm a realistic optimistic that I'm not looking for silver linings. We are full of gratitude. And we need to have gratitude. We need to have gratitude and also just let ourselves really connect with our own inner twinkle, with our own inner aliveness. What is it that gives you your aliveness? And I love the challenge, and I love the challenge that every single day there can be joy in your life and joy is there.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:28:25]:
It may be micro. That's where most of life happens. Most of life happens in the micro. We can have a graduation, we can have a birthday party, but most of life really happens in the micro and not with neon lights around it. And so pay attention to the micros, don't miss it. We have a negativity bias. We remember the negative much, much easier. That's how we're built for evolutionary reasons.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:28:56]:
And we do not have a built-in pathway for remembering joy. So when you are experiencing joy, and here's one thing that you can do right when you are experiencing joy, bring your attention, bring the focus of your attention to that moment and take it in for 20 seconds. You need to take it in for 20 seconds so that it starts having traction and memory inside of you. It's intentional. Bring it in. Teach your brain to look for it. We have this idea that our brains teach us. It's the opposite.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:29:42]:
We teach our brains what it needs to know. And your brain, you need to train your brain to be on the lookout for your micro moments of joy because we have so much. We are the four Fs we live in the land of and we're expected to have unlimited capacity. Do not miss your micro moments of joy, because that is what will help you and replenish and know that you have it in you to take with you. So don't miss them. It is such a crucial gift that you give to yourself as you really work on your path of your non-negotiables. So when the time comes to give, you are the giver that you really would love to be and are.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:30:33]:
I love that. I love the micro-moments of life. It's so true. We often hear it's the small things. It's the
small things, but when you put that in perspective of these micro-moments of life, it really is the small things in the grand macro of things, right? And you can always find a little bit of joy in that small moment. Speaking of that small moment, I can't believe I could. We could talk to you forever. You've been such an incredible friend to both Amory and myself and so inspirational to our community and I know to all of those that are listening.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:31:07]:
We like to end our podcast with the same question. And our question to end today with you is what is one time or moment that you can't believe you survived and are still laugh about today?
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:31:21]:
Okay, so. Oh gosh, I'm trying to think of one. There was a moment of sometimes your kid is going through a moment and you're just so in it with them and you're at it and the tempers are starting to go and we all lose it. That's what happens. And that's not where it ends. Remember, that's not where it ends. And then you get to a point. There was one where I was with one of my kids and I was being asked these questions that were like, I knew it wasn't going to go into a good place.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:32:04]:
And I just said, these questions are like asking me if the earth is flat. And I'm not going to have a discussion about the earth being flat. And all of a sudden it just shifted and it went to, oh, okay. I started laughing and just moved it on and the thing is that the hardest thing to have is perspective while we're in it, when we're in the murky waters, when we're in the darkness of those moments, it is very hard to have perspective. And that's where the realistic optimism comes in. Not that you'll have it at that moment, but that you'll be able to get back to it.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:32:49]:
I love that. Thank you so much for being with us today. I've learned all the things and thank you for being such a great voice to women and to moms.
Amri Kibbler [00:33:02]:
Yes, this is exactly what we needed. Thank you so much. So much fun and can't tell you how much we learned.
Dr. Risa Ryger [00:33:10]:
I am so honored to be with you and to spend this time and also you've gotten me at such a good time because I have just finished the first draft of my manuscript and so being able to impart information to help and I am so 100% in support of what you do, the information you give to women, how you support in wisdom, in savvy and knowing what it looks like on the ground in combat boots and then being able to hold us together and to bring our heart fullness together. You two are just extraordinary and I am so honored to be here with you with so much love.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:33:58]:
Thank you so much.
Amri Kibbler [00:34:00]:
Thank you for listening to Leaning Into Being.
Erika Hanafin Feldhus [00:34:02]:
To get connected and join the Hello Mamas and HeyMama community visit hellomamas.co.
Amri Kibbler [00:34:07]:
Let's connect, support and grow together in this journey of motherhood.