บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ NADIA

important place to start for any leader that just that concept of worthiness. 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:17.920 And for me, it's uh it has been a I think a lifelong intertwining ever before I even was a you know a professional who was working, um, very early in life type of formation. 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:25.439 Um but to your question, was there a moment when I was able to separate? 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:28.480 It's fairly recent for me. 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:57.600 Um and it's also a thing now that I'm being challenged by because there is a kind of like a comfort that I'm being pulled back into to merge the two back together again since moving into uh the executive director role, which is as you know, is I'm at I'm at month 13, so it's still relatively new for me. 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:46.720 But the the time when they separated was in 2023, so still also it was relatively recent, and it was um a cancer diagnosis that actually brought on an invitation for me to take a lot of you know inner work that I had been doing for a year, like just as part of my overall health and mental health and whole, you know, wholeness work that I had been doing, that now it really challenged me to dive deeper into the places where that sense of self was so interconnected in a way that was not healthy with my with my life's work. 00:07:46.800 --> 00:08:00.480 And I've always called uh you know what I have chosen to do professionally as a as my life's work because it has always felt so much more of a calling than it has been, you know, a nine to five day job. 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:23.920 And so getting a cancer diagnosis in 2023, and what physically and emotionally and mentally that I moved through from diagnosis to being declared, thankfully, in remission, it was a forced separation. 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:30.879 And it was like such a beautiful gift to be able to do that. 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:50.480 And, you know, two and a half years later, in a new role with new demands, at a very distinct moment in time with all of the changes that are happening in the in the world of development by way of you know geopolitics and the implications it's having on funding. 00:08:50.879 --> 00:09:00.399 There is this, I'm watching it in real time, like this coming back together of the two, because it is what is has always felt the most familiar to me. 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:18.159 But now is I'm also recognizing how risky it is from um a wellness perspective, from uh even just from like a leader health perspective, which then becomes you know an organizational health matter. 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:28.000 And so I'm like right now in real time wrestling with myself to like keep the two distinctly separated. 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:49.600 So powerful, and I want to go deeper on some of these, uh and particularly because one of the things I really valued and honored about you was how you were able to use your journey with cancer for such deep learning and light. 00:09:50.240 --> 00:10:00.960 You know, I've seen others get smaller with such a diagnosis, but you just grew in your light, and I can see this is one of the lessons, this is part of the evolution that came from it. 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:19.600 And I I I you've alluded to some of the risks that come from tying our entire worthiness and identity with, and it's particularly harder when it's not just a job, but it's as you said, for those of us who it's a vocation, it's our life purpose. 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:20.320 What did you call it? 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:21.440 Your life, what did you have? 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:23.759 My my life's work. 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:25.279 Yeah, your life's work. 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:26.240 That's even harder. 00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:28.879 You alluded to some of the risks. 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:31.919 You talked about wellness, you talked about health. 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:52.159 Um give me some examples very concretely of what it looks like when the two are joined, when your worthiness is tied, and then give me some examples of what it looks like, what leadership looks like when you're like my inherent worthiness is not tied to my performances. 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:55.679 Yeah. 00:10:55.840 --> 00:11:02.639 Um, so I can I can respond to that just acknowledging that this is like very personal, my personal experience. 00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:04.879 I'm sure this doesn't translate for everyone. 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:18.399 Um and if I can also respond to it by sharing what it was about the cancer experience that allowed me to like see the difference between the two. 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.240 Um, what it looks like, I'll start from where it looked, what it looks like. 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:34.559 What it looks like is for me, has been a very unreasonably high standard of of performance. 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:42.799 Um what I have called more recently this um orientation of like hyper responsibility. 00:11:43.279 --> 00:12:11.519 Um expand always adding and expanding what I can take on versus um you know acknowledging and recognizing that there are real limitations that exist, time in a day, capacity of mental bandwidth, of you know, physical capacity, all of those things that like are real boundaries that are set. 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:25.679 And I, you know, I really believe that they are set by nature with the best of intentions to frame like what is possible for you know a finite, fragile human being to be able to take on. 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:36.639 And maybe even to force us to recognize the importance of our own connectivity to others and to community so that it can be shared. 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:52.799 Um, and so that hyper responsibility, it wasn't like a yes saying yes, but it was an awareness of, you know, there's this thing that is necessary that needs to get done, or that, you know, the organization needs or the team needs. 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:57.600 I can see the connectivity of it to, you know,

like a causality. 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:10.559 Like if we're not able to resolve this or move this, then, you know, this could be like, you know, the two, three steps down the line of, you know, positive and negative implications. 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:26.960 And then, you know, wrestling with the, so you can take it on, like you can do it's because it's for others and it's for the benefit of the whole, which I also think is like, um, I would never I have zero expectations of other people doing that. 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:28.080 It's such a me thing. 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:33.840 So it's a you know, like I'm also not a leader that expects hyper responsibility from others. 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:40.559 It's just what I like I understand my own uh what what I am able to take on. 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:48.399 And so there's always the temptation to like do it and uh or say yes, uh, so that because it helps the whole. 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:49.600 Yeah. 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:51.600 So that's what it, that's what it's looked like. 00:13:51.759 --> 00:14:05.200 And then, you know, what the implications of that were on me without my, and I had no awareness of it because I was so disconnected from my body that like I wouldn't have even been able to tell you that these were the signs of it. 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:17.120 But it really was a a level of engagement mentally and physically in my in my responsibilities, whatever my job was. 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:22.240 This was not even like a, you know, this is not a related to my current employer or my current role. 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:32.960 It's like an always whoever, wherever Nadia was, she showed up as this, even like in my family, even you know, with my friends, you know, everywhere. 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:41.279 It was like stepping forward with a you do the work, you carry the the responsibility of the whole. 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:48.720 And it meant not being aware of the toll that it was taking on my physical health. 00:14:48.960 --> 00:15:03.039 If I looked fine and I felt fine and I didn't have a die, you know, like a diagnosis, I just kept going and kept going until my body was like literally quite literally, it was like, you cannot do this anymore. 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:09.120 And to find out, you know, I'm not gonna suggest that this was like the reason why I got a cancer diagnose. 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:19.200 I don't I'm not I'm not saying anything like that, but um, I do believe, and I have read the literature that I don't know if you are familiar with the book, The Body Keeps the Score. 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:21.440 Yes, yes, yeah. 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:36.000 And so I think that there is a a lifetime of micro um micro micro decisions that I was making that my body was bearing the the toll of. 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:48.080 And so when I received my diagnosis, it was a very aggressive, I only understood it after it was all done, but one of the most aggressive forms of uh lymphoma.

00:15:49.039 --> 00:16:10.000 And on the other side, like I'm still hearing stories nowadays, like in my remission, two and a half years later, of any one change in circumstances, my outcomes could have been completely different because that's how like aggressive this cancer, this particular subtype of cancer is. 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:18.320 Um, but when I got it, uh, and when the doctor gave me my diagnosis, it there was an when I say immediate, it was immediate. 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:24.399 Like I immediately had this awareness of there is nothing I can do. 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:27.759 Like there is no amount of work that I could do. 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:38.559 There is no amount, there's nothing that I could input in this moment in time that's going to change what those lab results say, what the doctors say, or my treatment plan. 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:47.200 Like it was an immediate, you have no responsible responsibility, control, authority in this. 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.960 And I think for some people that would have that could have been very terrifying. 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:56.720 For me, it was freedom. 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:18.799 It was the most bizarre sense of freedom because it felt like for the first time, I'm I'm a I'm moving through a process that I can't in like my responsibility won't um be the thing that determines my outcome. 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:23.039 You know, I I have very few decisions to make. 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:28.720 Like the the doctors will probably give me some options and they'll say, which one do you want to do? 00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:33.599 And the reality was, like, for me, I went in and the doctor was like, You've got one pathway. 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:38.720 There is one treatment protocol, it looks like this, you know, you're in or you're out. 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:44.319 And if you want to live, you just take it as, you know, take the package as what we're suggesting that it is. 00:17:44.480 --> 00:18:19.599 And so just the fact that like the set of circumstances that I was navigating, it everything was dialed into saying yes and moving forward, saying yes and moving forward, and knowing that there was very little else that I was responsible for, my day became I worked through it, which is a whole other conversation that I'm still I was still trying to make sense as to like, was that was that wise, or was that still that hyper responsibility thing that like I still as a patient in chemotherapy was like you know, working straight. 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:21.920 Yeah. 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:36.000 But my you know, what I was actually responsible for was like getting eight hours of sleep a night, eating well, you know, walking uh three, you know, three kilometers a day. 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:37.279 That was it. 00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:46.559 But like everything else, I had no, there was no amount of inputs that I could calculate in and say, you know, Nadia beat cancer. 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:47.839 It actually wasn't that. 00:18:48.079 --> 00:19:10.000 It was my ability to surrender and to trust the people that were surrounding me, you know, like my family and friends that, you know, provided this safety net to hold me in, my care team, the doctors and nurses that came together and said, this is your treatment plan. 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:28.400 And I literally had to surrender to that, you know, small uh community, that ecosystem of care for me, and um, and just trust that on the other side of this, I was going to get better or I wasn't. 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:48.079 And I had to believe that either of those outcomes were what were what were the best for me because I was trusting and saying yes to everything that I knew was going to be good for me, you know, and which was very different than the Nadia before. 00:19:48.160 --> 00:20:05.359 I was always very sure that the inputs that I put in, it was like a formula, the amount of hard work, the amount of dedication, the volume of responsibility that I take on, it will result in worthworthiness, affirmation, you know, success, et cetera, et cetera. 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:16.400 Like all the things that we can, you know, say impact, even like, you know, because it's not a lot of social impact leaders are not motivated by like success or accolades. 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:22.160 It really is about like the work is transforming people's lives. 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:30.160 And that in itself is like a could become a tether in a very unhealthy way if we're not aware about if we're not aware of it. 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:39.039 Um, but you know, to live in this place of surrender where some days, because of the chemo, I couldn't even think, like my brain was so foggy. 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:45.200 And so I had to just rely on other people to help me make sense of things in my day-to-day. 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:49.359 And um, yeah, it was freedom. 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:51.839 And so, what does it look like on on now? 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:58.880 Or maybe not right now, let's say like six, uh 12 months ago before before my job changed. 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:11.599 What did it look like after that separation was a I think a a real rightful orientation of human like me as a human being. 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:19.839 There is I am limit, I am created to be limited, and that is good. 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:21.920 Say that again. 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:22.720 Say that again. 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:24.240 I need to hear that again. 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:34.000 I, as a human being, was created with limitations, and and that range of limitations is really good. 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:54.079 Because I think that we lose sight of who we are in the bigger scheme of things, and we think that there is some way to like some hack to minimize limitations, as if that's the goal of all of this. 00:21:54.240 --> 00:22:16.079 It's like, or maybe we're just all created to really understand the Boundaries

that we exist in amongst the bigger world and creation that we're a part of, and and just really believe that those limitations are set so that every other person and part of the story can also do their part and bring their part. 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:18.640 And the whole thing only works. 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.359 This is what I find myself telling my team a lot right now. 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:34.319 It's like the whole thing only works when all of us are doing our part, not beyond what is reasonable, not below what is needed or what is reasonable, just your part. 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:41.920 But if when any one of us are doing too much or too little, the whole thing gets out of whack. 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:47.680 And so I think that's like the hard, which is what we were talking about just before we hit record. 00:22:47.759 --> 00:23:05.440 The hard reality is that, like, you know, we're there's so much very variability in with just the human condition and people and how every one person shows up, that you can't quite you can't uh you can't make that equation work. 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:08.720 But I still believe that that's really the the heart of it all. 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:19.920 It's like this all of us with our unique individual limitations when we come together as a whole, fit and support one another. 00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:28.079 Um and how do we just move and exist with the awareness of what our limitations are so others can be there for us? 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:39.680 And and how do I show up for others where they have limitations so that I am you know a part of this bigger whole and making the whole the best that it can be? 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:42.319 Oh wow. 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:47.440 It's it's it's as if you have been sent to preach to me today. 00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:48.880 I don't know about that. 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:57.440 So I I will tell you why some of the things you have said are so they're so powerful to me in this moment. 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:14.960 Yesterday, um, and I I'm not sure what day you will put this out, but yesterday was a Sunday and we're recording on a Monday, but I I was feeling depleted, no energy, just didn't feel like doing anything. 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:21.920 And I remember speaking to my mom, and she was saying how she was feeling the same. 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:29.839 There was some you know party she was supposed to go to, and she just had to call and give her apologies because she just didn't feel like it at all. 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:38.640 So we're kind of um encouraging each other to sit within that sense of like if we're tired, lean into it. 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:51.279 And I said to her, I said, in my morning journaling that day, I had had a whole list of things that I wanted to do as my Sunday, you know, both reconnect with the divine, but also get ready for the week ahead, my personal stuff. 00:24:51.759 --> 00:25:05.920 And when I felt like I have no energy to do

it, as I sat in receptive mode, I felt as if the divine was saying, I have intentionally depleted your energy, Taka. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.519 So you would not do it. 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:10.720 Because if you had the energy, you would never stop. 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:20.559 And usually, because I'm such a high energy person, any lack of energy, I'm like, oh no, something's going wrong, Taka, you gotta get it together. 00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:32.240 There's so much stuff that you and so yesterday I was able to lean into it for a bit, but by this morning, I was ready for myself to with the stick again. 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:45.519 And this is why I feel also your your your message about, and I asked you to say it again because I needed to hear it that we are created to be limited, and that is not good. 00:25:45.680 --> 00:26:07.279 So, again, this morning in my morning walk, I started to think about all the things I felt I I wanted to achieve and do for myself, and I felt like all my time was going to do all the amazing because, like you, the life working things, and I was like, but why am I not able to do both? 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:09.039 And why am I not achieving both? 00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:11.440 And why am I slacking on all these things? 00:26:11.599 --> 00:27:29.440 And I could hear that song throughout the walk, and it's only now as you when you said that, when you said that sentence, I realized maybe part of the work to do talking is make peace with the fact that you are limited, you are not supposed to do everything, but because your worthiness is so tendried to achieving this and achieving this and achieving this with a personal level, life work, you you you start to feel less that, and to me, the invitation is my leadership is to show up more integrated, healthy, it has to come from an acceptance of limitation and an acceptance of being human and a letting go of that hyper responsibility because I sense Nadia that so many leaders that we are, you know, our co-leaders that we're working with across the globe, particularly those who are doing this kind of work that we're doing, are exhausted. 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:30.960 So degree. 00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:34.640 You know, and and I wonder if this there's two things. 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:46.720 I I think, as you said, it's being hard because the system we were talking about, this the system, the conditions around which leadership has to operate, are not going to encourage you to see your limitations, step back. 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:58.480 In fact, they will applaud you and incentivize you and potentially penalize you if you start to focus on taking care of yourself, having more of those boundaries. 00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:16.240 So I wonder, as you mentioned now, that you see it coming together, but I sense that you are doing the inner work to separate, to continue to recognize your limitation, to lean into sharing responsibility with others. 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:21.599 What are some of the question I'm asking? 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:29.599 What needs to share so that we can increasingly embrace that sense of limitation? 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:40.880 And I don't want to say limitation, that sense of so we can let go of that hyper responsibility so that we can unten that worthiness from being all to everyone. 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:46.160 Individually, or is that like a collective question? 00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:47.920 Or maybe both? 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:49.119 Maybe both. 00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:55.359 You know, I I I wanted to lean into the collective, but because this is an inner work thing, let me start with first individually. 00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:07.039 I think what I am experiencing for myself is the more that I isolate, the easier it is for the two to come together. 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:25.920 But the more that I am a part of a community, it is so easy for me to recognize what's happening and then to like remember that this person is available as a as a peer, as a support. 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:43.839 And I work alongside this team, or what's been a gift to me in this season is um just finding other um executive leaders and being in community with them, particularly people who have been in executive leadership roles much longer than me. 00:29:44.079 --> 00:30:15.119 Um the the wisdom that they have learned over their years of finding the balance and holding perspective of like this bigger whole of the journey and um and also hearing, because I've heard the same thing, like every time that I meet another executive leader, I'm probably becoming like very creepy to some people because I'm just like, can we can we be in community together? 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:17.039 They're just like, okay. 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:31.599 But um, the more conversations that I'm able to have that are really honest and really open with other executive leaders is the acknowledgement that like everything that I am navigating where I think I am alone in this, it is unilaterally shared. 00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:34.160 There is nothing that I have experienced that is new. 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:43.680 There is no uh personal or individualized struggle, institutional challenge, people issue. 00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:49.440 There's nothing that I could surface and say that that somebody would be like, oh, I've never heard of that before. 00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:53.759 It's so everything is such a shared experience. 00:30:53.920 --> 00:31:30.000 And there's something about being in community with other leaders and knowing that, like knowing that so it is like hard data of the shared experience that we have as leaders, that um it, I think the the volume, the frequency of the awareness that this is a shared, these things are shared, makes it so much harder for me to like actually feed the story that I tell myself of like, you have to do it this way, there's no other way. 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:31.119 You know, you know what I mean?

00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:32.319 There's no other way to do it. 00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:40.000 It's just or even like I think the thing that's been the most tempting for me is like just this one time, just until we get to the end of the year. 00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:55.200 Like I make it like these time-bound exceptions of me sprinting really hard through, you know, of taking on too many things because of the set of circumstances that we may be moving through right now in this moment. 00:31:55.359 --> 00:32:01.440 But it's just it's just a very old wiring that wants to stay active and alive. 00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:09.599 And so, you know, I've got an incredible board and um I meet with my board chair and vice chair regularly. 00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:15.039 And that was a lot of our conversations because they have known me before I stepped into this role. 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:30.480 They were with me, like, you know, while I was in treatment, they they have seen the whole arc, and they are constantly reminding me to like pay very close attention to where those things are coming together or remaining separated. 00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:34.480 And so that so that and that's another form of community. 00:32:34.559 --> 00:33:08.799 It's like me being connected to my to my board, and and the kind of support that then comes from them in being you know, reminded that there is a much bigger whole of leadership, that this responsibility is shared within, and that it is critical to enlist everyone that has a part to play, um, and not take it on as like this is this is just something that I have to figure out. 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:30.000 So, yeah, I would say that being in community, what it does at an individual level, what it does then for the whole, and really kind of holding the whole accountable to the health of, you know, the organization or the health of people within the organization, including myself. 00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:43.440 And I'm not even holding into consideration then what the reciprocation of that is, because I am sure, separate to potentially being you know creepy at the beginning of an encounter with someone, I want to believe that like there's a longer term. 00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:45.119 Something out of it. 00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:46.640 Yeah. 00:33:46.960 --> 00:34:00.960 Because it is, I think the one thing that I have heard most frequently as an executive director that I never heard as a second chair leader to an executive director is how lonely executive leadership is. 00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:21.519 And so community really becomes a very powerful healing uh component for that inner work, but it also becomes a really it's a lifeline for so many other things and mutually, mutually so. 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:36.320 I suspect, and and this is something I I would love, I'll pull on that thread at another moment when we're together, because I you've said community, and I fully agree. 00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:42.719 And I've I've seen when we have convened spaces, how many leaders talk about I thought it was only me. 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:56.719 But what I've also come to see is that many struggle to create that type of community, and I think it's the way you are you one shows up in vulnerability. 00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:18.559 That's why you say maybe they all creep out to weep, but it means it's having the courage to step out, be vulnerable, to to know who one can trust, to be in community with those who are equally willing to share so that it becomes a healthy sense of community, but a definite uh community, I think is the case. 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:23.760 I want to come to um because I can see time is already flying. 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:34.960 I don't know how it's going so fast, but we always talk there's something around emotions because I think this is um part of the inner work that folks really struggle with a lot. 00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:43.920 How has your relationship with your emotions evolved over time? 00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:52.400 Because I can imagine throughout the battle with cancer, I can imagine stepping into this role as ED. 00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:57.280 You have had a roller coaster of different types of emotions. 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:02.239 How yeah, how was yeah, how has your relationship with those evolved? 00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:11.920 So I'll go back to what I said a few moments ago about the Nadia before my illness was very disconnected from my body. 00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:14.800 And part of part of that was my emotions. 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:32.960 So I've really learned to uh to quiet them and to separate myself from my feelings and almost show up in a very computer-like manner. 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:50.719 I used to joke a lot and say, I'm a robot, you know, like I, you know, I'm you know, I really compartmentalized, I used to be able to compartmentalize things in a way so unhealthy, but like I thought it was such an asset because then it's like I could step into something and think pretty objectively and I don't react. 00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:54.559 I am a slow processor by nature. 00:36:54.719 --> 00:37:04.000 And so, like, you know, I'm the kind of person that takes like when I sleep and wake up the next morning, like things have clarified uh from the day before. 00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:22.000 And so yeah, I would say that I always treated emotions as something that needed to exist separate from myself, particularly like me as a leader and how I was showing up and leading. 00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:35.760 And it's so quite the opposite and very, very unhealthy, I think, to be on any one extreme of like dissociated and separated from emotions or fully emotionally led. 00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:45.599 Probably both extremes are like completely um come with their, you know, their risks and their liabilities. 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:50.719 So I, you know, now I try to, I actually work really hard. 00:37:51.280 --> 00:38:01.440 One of the things that I

experienced um kind of at the first, like I would say two to three months of my you know diagnosis before I even started treatment. 00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:20.960 And this is a courtesy to my brother, who was my primary caregiver, um, I would feel things and I wouldn't be able to say, like, to even put words to it, um, like hesitations or uncertainties or you know, sadness or anger. 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:37.119 And like he would really talk me through, like, he would see me like in a moment, like wanna stuff something, push something down, and just kind of like, okay, we have I have to decide in the next five days, do I want to start treatment on this day or this day? 00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:40.000 And then and he was like, Well, you know, how do you feel about it? 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:41.280 And I just I didn't even know. 00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:43.199 I was just like, let's just start with it. 00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:47.920 And he's like, No, like what are the things that like are there sensations in your body? 00:38:48.239 --> 00:39:20.079 And so, yeah, so what I actually realized is that there's a lot of emotions that first show up as like a feeling, a physical feeling, before it's a a word that I can say, like, I am disappointed, or I am concerned, or I'm afraid, or you know, I feel really great about like whatever that emotional expression is with the language that we have, the first starting place is for me usually like a knot in my stomach, a lightness on my shoulders. 00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:34.000 And to be able to, I even like the first year of my when I was in remission, I found myself saying even to like my my leadership team together, like, I'm feeling something in my body, I don't know what it is. 00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:38.320 I just want to like, you know, just let me sit with it for a little bit. 00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:45.519 And then like the more that I it's a literal cure inner curiosity of like, what is that? 00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:52.800 You know, and then it would be able to surface as like an anxiety or a discomfort. 00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:55.440 And then I would, you know, really interrogate. 00:39:55.599 --> 00:40:10.639 It's not a long process, but it's certainly like it would, I would have to dedicate maybe a couple of hours to just like sit in the stillness of like, what is what is underneath this tension that I'm feeling in my in my physical body. 00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:14.079 Um, and so that to me is the way that I stay connected to it. 00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:22.000 And that that's so I don't stuff it down or ignore it because part of the hyper responsibility is like an absolute bulldozing of myself. 00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:26.880 It you know, it's like a oh, you're tired, push through another three hours. 00:40:27.519 --> 00:40:29.039 Yes, yeah, yeah. 00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:35.840 And that becomes a conditioning where like fatigue isn't even something that registers anymore. 00:40:36.400 --> 00:41:00.239 And so, you know, to be to have the gift of learning that there are physical cues that my body is giving me that's connected to a real, like true leadership intuition, that you could connect it back to data points and evidence to come to a conclusion that's real and it's important. 00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:02.719 And we don't talk about it enough. 00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:07.679 We we, you know, we turn everything into like a theory or a framework. 00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:15.280 And I think those things are good and real, but there's also a again, the humanity of our experience. 00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:30.159 Like we are people in in human flesh that are leading organizations and initiatives, and that humanity is not separated from our brain, it is a it is so deeply connected. 00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:36.719 And so that to me is like the place where I'm trying so much to sit in and to not lose sight of again. 00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:50.719 It's like my body is a part of this machinery as a whole that is designed to help be a part of solving some of the, you know, some of the greatest challenges of our time. 00:41:50.880 --> 00:42:06.079 How do I do that without denying parts of it so that I could, you know, rationally um you know move through a decision-making process because it's a part of it. 00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:22.960 You know, this thing, and and you I remember the first time you you told me about reconnecting to your body as a as a beginning science to explore with curiosity what's showing up. 00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:27.679 And I remember when I heard that, and as you said, you've just repeated that again. 00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:35.760 When I heard that, I remembered thinking about how disconnected I am with my body, and I think many of us are with our bodies. 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:40.079 We haven't been trained socialized to think of our bodies in that way. 00:42:40.639 --> 00:43:01.920 It's all we're all up here in our heads, and as you rightly said, many times we only pay our attention to our bodies when they're getting in the way of being hyperproductive, when they're getting in the way of our performance, and even then, then we're angry at our bodies. 00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:08.400 Or if our bodies are not looking a particular way, then we might have a relationship of like I'm gonna lose weight. 00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:24.719 But this thing about being accused in the moment to what's happening within your body, often as the first signal to what you might be feeling, is a powerful thing that I can imagine because it strengthened so many of our leadership. 00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:31.039 But that, as you said, that is uncharted territory for so many of us. 00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:36.079 And I think a real invitation that maybe that's something we need to learn and step into. 00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:38.719 Yeah, you just brought something to my mind. 00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:58.159 There was a there was someone who I spoke to very early on in like my treatment journey where they were talking about like the it may have even been like one of the social workers at the hospital that was like, you know, you're probably moving through a lot of feelings like your body betrayed you because it wasn't able to like fight off this thing. 00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:08.400 And you know, I I didn't I didn't ever think that because you know, I just had such a clarity of like, I'm being invited into freedom. 00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:11.440 I'm gonna, you know, like I'm gonna embrace this. 00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:26.480 And so, really, what I think it actually was it's like all those signals to what you're saying that we feel like our body is getting in the way, those are actually the prompts and the reminders of like you are you are a human being. 00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:27.599 You're human. 00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:31.440 Take it down and not take it down and not chill, breathe. 00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:33.039 That's right. 00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:36.159 Take that sacred pawns. 00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:38.719 Oh my goodness, Nadia. 00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:42.159 You know, we have to continue over our wine because this one there, we can't finish. 00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:43.199 I'm ready. 00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:46.960 Thank you, thank you so much. 00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:52.719 I mean, so many gems, so much wisdom, so much insight. 00:44:52.880 --> 00:45:01.519 I'm so glad I was able to share your wisdom with our audience and have them see how amazing you are. 00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:05.519 We will definitely continue this conversation, folks. 00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:08.079 If you've joined us, thank you, thank you for joining us. 00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:08.960 Hope you enjoyed it. 00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:11.039 You could see as much as I enjoyed it. 00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:18.800 And if you did, always we say don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss any of the subsequent episodes. 00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:22.239 So thanks for joining us, and we'll see you for the next episode. 00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:23.280 Ciao.