บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Episode 261 – Dan Ryder – Making Every PD Count

always a uh 45-minute pass, but then they can just put a note saying send them back in 20 or whatever. 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:37.600 Um and then the kid comes down, we work together on whatever it is they need. 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:41.040 They walk through and I say, How might how might we be helpful? 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:47.199 And then it's oh, I really want to do something about how gross downtown is. 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:52.480 Can we do a downtown detox seminar uh or elective? 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:54.560 And I go, sure, let's do it. 00:05:54.720 --> 00:06:17.439 And that led to uh a 13-14-year-old learner running a group of 12 other learners of across the age span from 12 to 17, going out and ever uh an hour every day and cleaning a different part of our downtown where our school is located. 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:27.439 Wow, and that was one day, and then and then that same afternoon a kid came in and was like, I want to learn how to use the whack them art tablets. 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:32.399 Okay, let's do that, and so on and so forth. 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:51.279 And so it's so this coming year we've really formalized that that's going to be my my day-to-day role rather than being the fill-in sub for everything, which kind of which wasn't the plan, but it's a necessity, right? 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:55.279 Like we just we just do what we need to do, right? 00:06:55.519 --> 00:07:09.279 And um, now it's going to be more that I am running the Ravenworks, I've got this great ed tech, I'm super stoked that he's gonna be there every day, so that if I need to step out, we don't have to close the space. 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:13.600 He's there to help keep things going, support kids. 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:17.680 Um, and he has a great relationship with the kids already. 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:20.160 So I'm pretty I'm pretty stoked. 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:23.199 There's gonna be I think it's gonna be a really good year. 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:28.560 And um I still don't have any idea what tomorrow is gonna look like. 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:54.800 But uh it's gonna it's uh the the goal is to make it a lot uh a lot more efficient and a lot more visible how we're able to use that space to make better connections with kids, families, community, and be more of a resource for everybody. 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:58.319 It's all folded under the umbrella of creativity, which is amazing. 00:07:58.560 --> 00:07:59.120 Uh-huh. 00:07:59.439 --> 00:07:59.839 Yeah. 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:00.800 Absolutely. 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:03.920 Like critical creativity is at the center of it. 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:07.759 And we've talked about critical creativity in the past, which I love. 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:22.720 You know, um, I'm glad that you kind of started with about next year because this conversation really is it's coming for kids and teachers in our school district about two weeks from when the teachers have to report back. 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:37.679 And so I know that the person I'm sitting next to is starting to think a lot about uh going back to school and you know, the year, the outline for the year, but also like what am I walking into for professional development? 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:44.879 So um we wanted to have a little conversation about back to the school kind of PD and PD in general. 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:49.440 Um, and so I'm gonna turn it over to my husband to ask the first question. 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:52.399 Well, okay, yes. 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:55.200 Um, thank you for putting it in that way. 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:59.840 Um I appreciate that you're not stressed about what's coming up at all, Matt. 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:06.559 I'm I I mean I'm I'm not, but at this, I mean I am a little bit in some ways. 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:09.679 You don't seem nervous or concerned in the least. 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:11.440 Oh, well, okay. 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:14.559 Uh that's good. 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:16.000 I I have that facade. 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:34.159 Um you know, um, you know, as we it's interesting because you never know, as we were talking about before we started recording, you never know, and Laura just mentioned it, what you walk into as far as welcome back to school. 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:40.320 Let's talk about our goal for our campus or our goal for the district or whatever that is. 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:46.720 And usually there are it's leaning towards math, leaning towards reading. 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:55.759 It's leaning towards you know, those those crucial and not that art is not crucial, but those what they consider those crucial subject areas. 00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:58.480 Um they're tested, yeah. 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:00.399 They're held accountable for those. 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:00.960 Yeah. 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:08.799 Um, you know, and that can sometimes change your your mental state even before you even walk in the room. 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:25.200 And just kind of curious, like, you know, how do you mentally translate some of those things, some of those strategies, um to actually make them more for a creative, you know, classroom, a creative environment. 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:35.120 Because it it is not just about art teachers and walking into those PDs, but I mean, it can also play into the art teacher as well. 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:45.039 Well, yeah, but it's I mean, uh but I think for art teachers in particular get kind of I feel like you guys get stuck. 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:45.759 Say it. 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:46.399 Just say it. 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:47.039 It's it's all good. 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:53.440 Well, you get stuck as the weird like stepchild kid that everybody's like, no, they're fine. 00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:54.720 Yeah, they're fine. 00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:55.840 We love them. 00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:59.200 Like they're technically part of the family. 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:04.480 Oh, they're

they're the weird fringe, right? 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:06.080 The weird family member, got it. 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:06.879 Right. 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:11.759 They just look, they're special. 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:16.159 And and we we don't really call them specials, like literally. 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:18.399 I know we call it specials. 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:20.159 No, it's allied art. 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:23.360 Oh, that makes it feel so much better. 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:24.559 Allied with whom? 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:26.320 Itself, right? 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:33.440 Because the only time you pair them up with anybody is with Jim, and you're like, that's not the same, right? 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:36.480 Like, like, come on, what are we doing? 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:39.360 Um music, PE, art, they all fit. 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:42.399 I think that's the the the trouble. 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:47.360 Well, there's there's a couple of troubles I think there are only two. 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:53.120 Um, but the big one, like overarching, knowing that you know, we're not on an infinite podcast here. 00:11:53.360 --> 00:12:09.919 Um but we have this tendency, one, especially at the beginning of the year, to try to cram big, big thinking into a small amount of time and assume that it's going to work. 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:28.799 When the assumption should instead be this probably won't go great in terms of like over time, whether the thing that we say in August is going to actually carry through to the end of the year. 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:34.159 In part because it's uh absolutely reflexive to whatever has come before. 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:37.600 It's not proactive to what we see might be coming. 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:39.039 Right? 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:43.600 Like when was the last time you went to a PD that was like, so this year we see coming up? 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:51.360 Or we know that in the next five years, this is the trajectory that our district is going towards. 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:54.080 And so we want to kind of get ahead of things. 00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:05.200 Yeah, that's that's not how I mean, honestly, like I in a Texas world, and I don't know about other states, but here it's always also this new law was passed, and you have to now do this. 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:14.799 And so it is it is definitely just reactive to whatever challenge the state has put in front of us, typically. 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:15.440 Right. 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:29.200 And then it's not really about professional development, it's not about developing your skill set or your craft or or honing that which you have already, you know, gotten to a a fine sheen in the case of Matt, right? 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:32.240 Like, like he already has so much. 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:34.960 Like, what are we at this point? 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.120 Like, we're really just walking into year 24 or something, yeah. 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:39.919 Something like that. 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:40.960 Right? 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:44.000 Let's freaking go almost a quarter century. 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:45.919 Let's not put it that way. 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:46.799 Yeah. 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:48.879 Well, you know, and you're half a century. 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:53.200 So I think and I do think though, Dan, that's like the it is so hard. 00:13:53.360 --> 00:14:04.080 Like, you want, I mean, my my mindset was always like from both sides of it, being the person putting on the PD and and from the person receiving the PD. 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:10.240 Like, I'm always going into it's like, how can I get the teachers happy and excited to be back with students? 00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:24.159 And they're they're not always in the best mindset to come back, and then you say, Oh, we have to do this law, or like, oh, right, you have to you have to do that, or oh, remember, you've got what is the bloodborne pathogen thing you got to do every year? 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:27.919 The videos oh, we finally we crack that nut. 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:48.879 We've been we've been and and the districts that are doing the the bloodborne pathogens and and all those required things for asynchronous video, like these are why we're glad it's 2026, we all have the internet, we we can do a lot of that uh not any less important, but also entirely pedantic, right? 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:56.799 Like that's the whole point of it, it's to just be instructive, it's not supposed to like like break open new new ideas and thoughts. 00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:58.480 It's yeah, no, absolutely. 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:03.440 But I do think that there's like this checklist though that is overwhelming to teachers when they come back, right? 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:10.080 Like they're like sitting in a PD, like Matt was saying, about math or reading. 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:23.279 And if you're not a math or reading teacher, you're wondering like check out especially when the instructor is not making it relevant to how can you infuse those techniques in your subject area, in your curriculum. 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:34.639 Oh, oh yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, right, and then and then you also then sometimes get the well, let's hear from art. 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:36.960 Let's let's put you on the spot. 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:38.639 Let's put you right on the spot. 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:45.360 And and I'm sure the art teacher would love to partner with all of you, and you're like, uh kinda, yeah. 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:55.200 Also I would, but uh yeah, that's really complicated because my schedule has been turned into this jigsaw of time. 00:15:55.759 --> 00:16:18.399 Absolutely, and I'm never on prepping and every other Thursday I get 20 minutes with the fifth graders because we've determined that fifth graders only need art for 20 minutes every two weeks, while third graders need it for 45 minutes every three weeks, like

every third Wednesday of yeah, yes, right. 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:21.519 So what do we have to do about it, right? 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:22.559 Because we can convention about it. 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:40.399 You're off you often feel like you're the person that's babysitting so that the rest of the staff can have conference conven uh planning together, and you're like, I want to partner with you, but exactly, and that happens so much, right? 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:44.799 So the question is like like what can we do about it, right? 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:46.720 Like, what's what options we got? 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:58.799 So we got options as the people sitting there hearing it because we may not have any say in it, and then we've got options when we do have some say in it, what we can do about it, right? 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:04.720 And I get to have a little bit, I'm lucky, I'm a district admin now, so I get to have a little bit of say in how we do things. 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:08.640 Um and I'm and I'm really fortunate. 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:15.200 I'm not responsible for all the P for the PD, but I am like a voice in the room helping share. 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:16.480 You get to help guide it. 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:19.039 Yes, and I offer a lot of PD. 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:23.599 Like I I and most of it is one-on-one type stuff. 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:44.079 But uh for my money, uh, what I think districts and schools of of any size benefit from is when we focus on professional development that is more about uh mindsets and conceptual frameworks than about discrete tasks. 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:44.480 Yeah. 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:49.039 Which I know is contrary to most PD that we get at the beginning of a year, right? 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:57.039 Most of it's how to use this curriculum and that curriculum meet meet these needs of this test and that test, or or this law and that law. 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:10.400 You know, I it's funny, as I was writing out these questions, I was um thinking about something my dad used to say who was uh who was a wrestling coach and would take us to numerous wrestling camps. 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:23.200 And one of the things he would always say was, you know, whether what makes it a good camp or a good, you know, whatever, a PD or whatever it is, if you walk away with at least one thing. 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:24.160 Right. 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:24.880 Just one. 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:25.519 Just one. 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:32.720 I mean, it it could be a really vague idea, it could be a concept, it could be a really finite detail. 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:42.559 And I think that's you know, that's part of kind of what keeps, you know, needs to keep you focused, is that looking for that thing looking for that thing. 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:44.720 Yeah, is it is it all gonna pertain to you? 00:18:44.880 --> 00:19:12.480 No, you know, and and it goes back to what you were just saying about proactive actions because if you let that kind of start to bog you down and be like, oh my gosh, now I gotta do this, now I gotta do that, then that kind of takes away from your your passion of creativity, you know, that burnout, no matter whether you're a brand new green teacher or you've been teaching for what a quarter of a century, as you so nicely put. 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:16.240 So it's I mean I heard a few turns. 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:18.960 So it's okay. 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:19.519 It's okay. 00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:22.319 Yeah, I think there's and we've both been around for about half a year. 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.759 Yeah, he just hit a nerve there because he that he literally just turned 50. 00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:26.160 I think. 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:26.559 Yeah. 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:29.200 So me too! Last week. 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:30.240 Imagine that. 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:31.920 Oh my gosh, you guys are birthday buddies. 00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:46.240 Um so I I I like that you said that, Matt, because I think that that's really I mean, my hope is that people listening to this are thinking, yeah, it it, I mean, especially as the the oddball, you know, in the room. 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:51.440 You know, and I mean oddballs I mean that with the most love ever. 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:55.759 I mean, I I've been in this profession and I'm gonna continue to be in this profession much longer. 00:19:55.839 --> 00:20:00.720 And I we are sometimes on the we're not the first thought, like that's just what it is. 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:05.200 But I love that you said like going into it, what's the thing that I can try to do? 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:34.640 Well, I can try to look for a takeaway and not get so worried about like all the other things, or maybe I can look for a thought partner, maybe meet somebody new, or like I mean, I think too that uh when I go into a PD, I'm thinking not just thinking about the content, but I'm thinking about who can I network with, who are who are people that are like-minded and looking for those like-minded, you know, per people because you know, as art teachers, if you're the only art teacher in the building, you've got to find your like-minded folks because you need to know who they are. 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:45.200 So, you know, looking for those takeaways, and I'm I think too, we are in a time of education where burnout is real for every teacher in the room, not just the art teacher. 00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:59.279 And I'm curious, like, what are your thoughts around you know the mindset walking into the beginning of the year and trying to think forward and be proactive about preventing your own burnout? 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:11.839 So, what first I just gotta point out that if I went to one of Matt's dad's camps, I would love to come out with just knowing how to hear my coach scream. 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:20.400 So I was already ingrained with hearing his tone, and I knew it out of anyone.

00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:21.440 So, yeah. 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:23.359 But anyway, sorry. 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:38.960 Yes, no, I just I didn't know this about your dad, and that just brings me tremendous joys as a as a former assistant wrestling coach who was only an assistant because he knew how to manage children, not because he knew about wrestling. 00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:43.680 I mean, being a teacher and a coach does help you with that in the classroom. 00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:47.519 Oh, it was pretty much like can I just get the kids to their to their match? 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:56.640 Can I just they have all their all their stuff, and then can I sit there and clap and pretend I know how to give them advice? 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:58.880 Um, but anyway, I digress. 00:21:59.279 --> 00:21:59.519 No. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:23.839 So one of the things I like about approaching professional development from a proactive place and seeing what is coming forward is something that my dear friend Elizabeth Ferkis, uh who's the principal at uh CRCS at the at the Overman Academy site, the upper school, she and I talk about this all the time. 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:28.720 And it's about how can you have a PD that's optimistic? 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:43.359 And how do we how do we come into a space excited by what we're about to do so that we can be even more excited when we are gonna go and actually do it, right? 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:52.880 Like when like how do we how do we create an environment that isn't just like hey, fun in the moment, because we've all laughed and had great times and PD days, right? 00:22:52.960 --> 00:23:01.039 We've all been with the colleagues and like there's there's some sort of an activity or something or some conversation that comes up and everyone's in a great mood, right? 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:04.880 It's it's rare to have a day that's just like a funeral. 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:08.319 Right. 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:27.920 So so we know that those moments exist, but we're talking about instead is not just having a moment like that, but coming in and we're going and saying, Hey, here is what we want for a theme for the year, or here are here are our big takeaways. 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:38.400 We want kids to feel like they belong, and we want them to be willing to take challenging intentional risks, like mitigated risk. 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:47.359 Not things that put them in danger, but try things that are new for them, be willing to to try and fail. 00:23:47.440 --> 00:24:01.680 And what can we each do within our locus of control, within our classrooms, within our impacts areas that encourages uh that uh you know, these outcomes that we want to see in our kids. 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:07.039 And when we go in like that, then it becomes this like, well, what if we did this and what if we did this? 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:08.559 And what if you did this? 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:10.160 Well, I did this and this. 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:44.240 And as we start talking about what could happen, we're focused more on possibilities, and we get into we can get into a generally more optimistic, you know, creative space, and then we can talk about like realities and and and constraints and what we have the function inside of, but it doesn't have to start with that, and it doesn't have to start with everything we're doing wrong, it can be more about everything we want to bring to kids that we want them to find joy in. 00:24:44.720 --> 00:25:01.920 Well, I think that's interesting because Laura was saying earlier about the um the thought partners, and I I know that over the last couple of years, um, you know, since I moved up to middle school, um, I look towards my my um my French and Spanish teachers. 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:09.680 And all of a sudden I, you know, I'm sitting with them and we're talking about stuff that they're working on and or are gonna want to do. 00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.319 And all of a sudden I'll be like, hey, you know what? 00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:13.200 Blah, blah, blah. 00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:18.160 You should try, you know, or you could add this component, and they're like, I never even thought about that. 00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:30.559 So, like, as you're sitting there, as you were just saying, as you were sitting there kind of popcorning ideas that leads into that kind of natural positive mindset or that that setting. 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:34.079 So I think both of you bring a great point. 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:34.880 Sorry. 00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:36.240 Oh no, it's okay. 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:37.119 Let's talk at the same time. 00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:39.839 Yeah. 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:52.880 I was just thinking, I mean, some the the two things together, like coming into it from an optimistic place and a what we're doing well, and then you know, what do we want to bring kids this year? 00:25:53.039 --> 00:26:05.519 And then thinking about you know, the collaboration there is like there's there, I think one of the things that sometimes we don't do well is see the commonalities of educators. 00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:13.119 Like we get so, especially at the secondary level, we're like, uh I'm doing that island, and that's what I do. 00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:17.200 Yeah, the islands, and I think the silos are such a problem sometimes. 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:20.000 And I wish we would just talk about instruction. 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:24.240 Is it like like uh like let's just talk about instruction together? 00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:37.119 And like, what are like like you said, Dan, like what are the things we want to bring these students this year that are gonna bring them excitement and joy and get them plugged into actually like caring about whatever it is we're trying to teach them? 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:47.039 Yeah, you know, one of the things that uh we did, I mean, this is so long ago at my my last school, but I loved I loved it.

00:26:47.200 --> 00:27:02.079 We did a a thing, uh, we had a literacy committee, and we tried to approach literacy um a very deliberate effort to constantly be reminding ourselves of the actual definition of literacy, which isn't reading and writing. 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:10.880 It's it's able to solve problems, able to make meaning, able to uh explain to others, right? 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:19.519 Or or teach to others, uh, and and um able to uh demonstrate complex understanding, right? 00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:29.680 Like like the definition of literacy is that's why you can be literate at all these different things and literate in some ways and literate in others, and right. 00:27:30.079 --> 00:28:13.279 So when we did that, then what we would we did a couple of different, I think we called them literacy fairs for lack of a better term, but the people on the committee like set up a bunch of stations where the staff could come through and see a bunch of different strategies on display, and then wasn't now you need to go through all of these, it was pick one or two that align really well from your perspective to what you're doing, because these are either they were either like research-based, and we hear that all the time, and I hate it, but because where was the research done? 00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:18.160 Oh, with a bunch of suburban uh affluent kids in you know middle America. 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.200 Okay, well, yeah, yeah, because that's what all of our kids are like. 00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:38.960 But but the but the idea of of still having something that's got some that's got some some weight behind it in terms of of the research or or you know the backing of of some endorsements, right? 00:28:39.200 --> 00:29:01.359 Plus some things that are kind of those those ideas adjace, which is kind of like what my critical creativity stuff, if you break it all down, you can figure out that they're that they're built on the spines and and the skeletons of stuff we've been doing and doing and doing, uh, but just with uh a a creative expression lens on top of it, right? 00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:15.039 So uh the idea just being if we can help those people find one or two things that we know help, and we can get them to adopt it and then talk about it. 00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:29.839 Hey, you're gonna use one of these with in in good faith for the next month, you're gonna use it regularly, which means like in a month and in every other day block school, that means you're gonna come up with like three different times you used it, right? 00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:31.440 Like that seems reasonable. 00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:38.319 You're not doing it every day, but every but once a week over the next month, you're gonna use the strategy. 00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:45.759 That's fair, and then bring in some exemplars of like what kids produced and bring in stuff where kids struggled and bring in. 00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:54.880 Let's look at the struggle, like what went what didn't go great on this, like uh and get away from well, the kids just lazy. 00:29:55.039 --> 00:30:06.720 Well, are they, or were they just not interested in the content, or were they not interested in were they struggling cognitively with the right strategy? 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:08.960 Like, what's actually going on? 00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:20.240 And we can look at quote unquote fails, you know, with with those lenses with a lot more value in them, and then we can be open and honest too. 00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:22.400 Like, I totally explained this wrong. 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:44.960 Whoops, like or not wrong, just you know, in a different way that uh I've had yeah, I've had conversations with kids before, and like I'm sitting there talking with them, and they're mad at a previous teacher who's like, This teacher thinks I'm dumb because they keep explaining it the same way and it doesn't make sense, and then all of a sudden I'm like, Okay, hold on, let's change your mindset just a little bit. 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:46.240 And I was like, you know what? 00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:50.960 They were explaining it to you in a way that made sense to them when they first learned it. 00:30:51.119 --> 00:31:01.359 So that's how they're I said they're making sense to them, even though it may not make sense to you, and all of a sudden, like their whole mood, their whole demeanor totally changed, and they were like, Oh, I didn't even think about it that way. 00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:06.079 But and I guess they're still in a job at the Ravenworks, Matt. 00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:18.640 I think I could I think we could use you at the Ravenworks because that's the exact conversation so many times, and that John has so many times. 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:24.079 It's like have you just thought for a minute that maybe they're not out to get you? 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:34.559 They just don't maybe they're a human being, maybe they're having to push down a lot of stuff, and then all of a sudden it just triggered something. 00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:46.640 Um, you know, I was I think one of our other questions was gonna be about those strategies and things, but I think you you really kind of um hit a lot on that. 00:31:46.799 --> 00:32:00.000 Um, but I'm I'm kind of curious in the idea of you know, let's say you try all these things, let's say you look for your thought partner, you do all these things, what what do you what do you do? 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:12.640 Like what if all those things aren't working, if those things, if you're still finding yourself struggling, you know, looking maybe like an unconventional space or you know, or or look bigger than just a thought partner. 00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:13.440 I I don't know. 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:20.079 I'm just really kind of curious if you have ideas or suggestions about what to do if you find yourself still struggling. 00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:22.319 Like, so if your campus sucks. 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:26.720 I

mean, or no one, I don't I don't necessarily know about that. 00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:32.240 Yeah, where if you're just not finding it there, is that what you're saying? 00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:34.400 Like if you're not finding the right in front of you. 00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:40.799 Where else can you go to look for that to really be able to unconventional or conventional, either way? 00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:41.440 Right? 00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:57.359 So I guess uh a couple suggestions that I make is it's why it's helpful to be part of communities of communities of practice is such a cornfall way of saying it out, but it but to be a part of a community that's bigger, right? 00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:03.839 So so even if you're uh an introvert, which I love introverts, I'm actually a closeted introvert. 00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:10.160 I actually need lots of solo time to recharge, um, even though I'm very comfortable in groups of people. 00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:23.279 Um but uh like I really think that having an outlet where you can ask that question, um like here's what happened. 00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:24.640 I'm stuck. 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:30.720 I don't feel like I don't really know that other people around like in my building are quite getting it. 00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:39.440 So if that's on LinkedIn or Blue Sky or or Facebook or whatever, whatever your your method is, right? 00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:42.400 Like having having that group. 00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:48.400 But then you got people who are like, well, I don't really want to get into being public about my my stuff. 00:33:48.640 --> 00:34:06.480 So then I kind of do like something I had to do when I felt like I was uh a kind of a department of one when I shifted my English teaching to to design and engineering focus, and like people are like, that's great, just don't make me do it. 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:31.679 Um is I just kind of had to look inside of what's my locus of control, like where can I like where can I go with what I'm being told I need to be doing, and how how like what's the smallest thing that I could do where I still feel like it's valuable and I'm getting excited about doing it for myself, yeah, right? 00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:38.239 So you're sitting in that PD and you're like, Oh, I wish I had a thought partner to help me with this, and I don't, so it's just me. 00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:43.760 And I'm seeing them say, we need to be doing, let's just use writing across the curriculum, right? 00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:45.920 Because that's that's one that shows up all the time, right? 00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:51.920 Or reading, because right now we don't talk about writing anymore, we're just talking about the science of reading till we are blue in the face, right? 00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:54.639 Or numeracy, whichever we we want. 00:34:55.199 --> 00:35:05.679 Um, I'm about to do a computational thinking uh class for a week uh with my buddy uh that we're we're running for the University

of Maine. 00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:14.159 And um we're gonna be talking about computational thinking and game design and combining those two things, right? 00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:17.599 So we could we could go down a math road, right? 00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:27.519 You're like you're hearing all the stuff about kids need more numeracy, and you're like, I really like I don't know how I'm gonna get in all these projects that I wanted already. 00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:34.320 We're playing to do around color, around shape, around texture, around right, like all these composition skills, right? 00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:43.199 So you just start looking for yourself as what's the smallest deliverable that I could do that gets me really excited, right? 00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:51.360 And like just kind of shrink the world down as that's actually something I learned from Elizabeth is shrink the world down so there's fewer options. 00:35:52.719 --> 00:36:09.599 You know, here's my goal is how might I, you know, in this case is I because you're you're working on yourself, you don't have those other people, but how might I and and push to like looking around the room going, well, what's the thing that brings me the most joy when I teach it? 00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:11.039 Right? 00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:13.920 Because then I'll have that thing I already love. 00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:16.480 Like I love like say I love sculpture. 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:27.440 Cool, all right, we're gonna use we're gonna get the clay out, and we're gonna we're gonna use the the non-hardening clay so we can make lots of mistakes and everything will be fine, right? 00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:35.519 And our fingers will smell bad, and then we're gonna, but it's cheap and we can get the bucket of yeah, modeling. 00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:50.159 And it's it's all like greasy, and so I'm gonna buy a bunch of those little those little um condiment cups to put their like their little mini project in, and you're like, okay, so I gotta do numeracy and I gotta do computational thinking. 00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:51.599 All right, we're gonna do patterns. 00:36:51.679 --> 00:37:03.360 We're gonna do patterns and we're gonna do sculptures and we're gonna use patterns in our sculptures, and we are going to make little they would be the equivalent of a meeple for a board game. 00:37:03.519 --> 00:37:33.440 That's the size we're we're cooking it because we're gonna make it really small, but it has to use a repeating pattern within your figure, and then you need to partner because I don't want you to become you don't have to become best friends with these people here at the beginning of the year that are in your space that you don't know very well yet, but you do need to make sure that yours has a pattern that is either shared, replicated, or sequential to three other people. 00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:41.199 So you do have to say, All right, this is the kind of thing I want to do, is I want to do a pattern, a dot pattern. 00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:42.320 Okay, cool. 00:37:42.639 --> 00:38:09.119 He wants to do another pattern, but he's gonna do it instead of dots, it's going to be lines, but it's going to be the same pattern just in lines, and then this other one is going to do divots, and this other one, and so we all have the same pattern, but in three different ways, so we can look at repetition and right, and these different ways of thinking about how do you find a pattern, right? 00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:18.719 And then maybe you bust out that game set that drives me insane because I can't right, but you bust that out as a little warmer, right? 00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:25.599 And you're like tossing down the shapes, and they're like, tell me when you guys see a set, and someone yells it out, I see one, where is it? 00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:28.960 And they come up and they tap their fingers on it, and you're like, Yes. 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:38.559 By the way, it's a use a document camera or an old iPad, put it on so it's up on your screen, and have it look down. 00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:43.039 Although I do love hover camps, they're really cool, they're just a little pricey, but they're awesome. 00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:50.639 Um but um, but something like that, where you're like, okay, I didn't have someone else. 00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:52.480 I know I love doing this. 00:38:52.719 --> 00:39:05.679 I've got to work in something that I'm not sure I'm feeling, but I'm gonna use the thing that I already love because if it doesn't go great, I'm still gonna go do this thing again because I freaking love culture with kids, right? 00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:15.920 Or I or I love doing doing um textured acrylic with kids, or I love doing uh scratch scratch art with kids. 00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:19.039 Like I just oh, I can't I can't get enough of doing it, right? 00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:20.800 Like it's called scorpito. 00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:22.000 Scorpito. 00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:27.440 Yes, super cool word. 00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:34.000 I know it's a brilliant and I love it. 00:39:34.079 --> 00:40:02.159 And I I think it what I love about it, Dan, is it's just a a great example of uh, you know, just getting excited about what you already love and trying to think through how can I blend things in a way that that uh supports the mission of whatever the the administration or the school and or the district is kind of uh setting forth, but also allows me to still do the thing I love. 00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:05.679 And I think that that's that's the perfect place to be in, right? 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:10.239 And I know it's super hard, but be really loud about it. 00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:14.000 Like, like, and by loud, loud is relative, right? 00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:28.480 But like shoot it, take a bunch of pictures and shoot them off to your director of professional development, your your superintendent, your building principal, and whomever else is on like whatever your team

might be, right? 00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:37.760 And and it's not a br it's not bragging, it's just hey, I just wanted you to see like this is how we're trying to do this, and if you had any feedback, that would be great. 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:45.760 The kids are pretty proud of what they did, and I just want to make sure that I'm not messing them up, right? 00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:54.320 Like, I like I'm checking, I'm I'm checking for my own knowledge, like yeah, is this accurate to what your goals goals were? 00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:55.199 Right? 00:40:55.360 --> 00:41:13.599 Like, I just had them create all these representations of of their comprehension of this text that was there in the in the curriculum book that I know the that the whole seventh grade received, and while like we couldn't really pair up to do it because the timing was never going to work out. 00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:17.440 I grabbed a one of those, I found a passage from early in the book. 00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:22.239 Kids said they'd already read it, they're like, I already know this, like, but do you? 00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:38.159 But you're right, and then and then we went and we did um, you know, we did value, we did, we did 10 values, uh like, or yeah, we did 10 value black and white graphite drawings. 00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:39.039 Yeah. 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:55.440 And their constraint was they had to have all 10 values from a vet from a value chart that they made that we can then go over with the and they have to self-assess and put their little value chart and put the the square over with masking out the rest and match it up to their value chart. 00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:05.039 Okay, right, to show that you understand like what the protagonists in this one-page story experienced. 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:06.719 Love it. 00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:43.199 Um I think going back to the the communities of practice, I would like to just bring that forward again because I know in my own world and uh my career, having a connection to my state uh art teacher association and and obviously national, that having those people, and they're not in my local, like right here in front of me, but knowing that I can reach out to those people or build a professional learning community with those folks also was like a game changer for me personally. 00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:55.360 Um and I think you know, sometimes people don't know necessarily what the the the benefit of being a member is, but it to me it's mostly the connections you make more than anything else. 00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:56.559 It's with the people. 00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:06.079 Like, you know, there are people that I'm gonna meet at NAEA that I would have never met, you know, and they're now going to influence my thought on instruction in a new way. 00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:13.920 And even though it's not like a formal plc, like I've got a little text change with like four people that I met at NAEA or something like that, you know. 00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:14.719 Yeah. 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:24.800 And you and like Maine is fortunate that I know our art art teaching community or our education community is also very connected. 00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:27.360 Extremely, we know them very well too. 00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:27.840 Right? 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:30.480 And they're super, they're super good, right? 00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:33.039 I love your main art teachers association. 00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:39.920 They are I know actually know the the president and the yeah, like they're just like amazing. 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:43.920 And if I'm just gonna say like that the and they're small, right? 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:45.599 They're small, but they're so they're amazing. 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:49.519 Yeah, I mean, they're they're small, but they're very active. 00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:53.440 They are constantly offering things and doing things. 00:43:53.760 --> 00:44:10.320 And I I don't know how you would be an art teacher in Maine and not know that they exist or and Or that they have a very like they're very affordable, they're programming, they're they're super like tuned into what's actually going on. 00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:29.199 Uh they seem and they go up, you know, they've had their they're up and down with like anything, but every time I've been apart or or been in a room with them, or we host uh I had uh we hosted a little gathering uh at at my school. 00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:34.400 Oh, this is a couple years ago now, where they needed a place to meet, centrally located in the state. 00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:49.039 And I was like, uh, you can come to my school and and you know, and then it turned into me sitting with them like and us kind of workshopping and collaborating on ideas for like two hours when I thought I was like, don't you guys have meeting stuff you need to do? 00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:56.800 Like, but it was just they were getting inspired by our space and and it was just like a it was really positive. 00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:08.000 Um but it's like those exist for every those exist for for for every weird subsection of education, right? 00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:13.920 And it's just a matter of hunting them down, or it's a matter of like the weirdo on the other end of a call. 00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:24.719 I like I I'm thinking like um I don't know if you guys know Donnie Pearcy, um, but he's just this amazing educator um in Kentucky, and he's such a good dude. 00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:28.559 And he uh he just sends me memes. 00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:48.559 I love that or he'll send a thing that he did or some goofy thing, but he he put up his ISTE schedule this year as a um MS DOS prompt where you typed in commands and it would list like his schedule. 00:45:48.639 --> 00:46:00.159 But if you typed in a bunch of Easter egg type things, you just messed around a little bit, it was all 1980s like movie themed stuff, and it was it was it was amazing. 00:46:00.320 -->

00:46:02.960 It was just like it was so cool. 00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:08.000 And it was like when I I saw my Insta, I was like, oh dude, that was so great. 00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:09.599 And I was laughing. 00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:19.199 I'm like, you know, you could also, and like we just got going for a few minutes on these ways that like, oh, how'd you do that? 00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:29.920 And he's like, Oh, I use like I use an AI coding tool, and I just like I kind of it took me a minute to kind of figure out how I wanted it to be, and then I just started getting really too obsessed. 00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:53.679 And I'm like, oh, but you could do like with kids, you could have them create websites from different eras that have to reflect historically and culturally what was happening at the time while also having authentic like math knowledge and that like we just started ideating on it, and that's all just because we shoot little dumb messages back and forth to each other. 00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:59.440 Well, I mean, we the three of us wouldn't be friends if Twitter hadn't been a thing 10, 15 years ago. 00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:01.519 Like, I mean, that's that's the thing. 00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:04.480 You just score one out for Twitter in the old times. 00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:05.280 There it is. 00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:06.320 That's the old time. 00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:09.199 Way back when way back when. 00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:16.800 I mean, Dan, I know you've been on here a few times and you know how we um start to wrap up our podcast. 00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:43.920 Um, we could spend probably you know as long as we could with talking with you, but um likewise our last our last question is sometimes our our most difficult one, but uh you know, what do you what's something you want to leave our listeners with, especially as we talk about, as some aren't gonna want to hear this, going, you know, getting ready to gear back up and and go to school soon or start back. 00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:46.480 Just lean into the joy. 00:47:46.719 --> 00:48:04.000 Like, I know that sounds like I know it sounds like a Hallmark card, and we'll make a movie out of it, like for like the Christmas season, and there'll be this lady who goes back to her hometown, and there'll be this guy who used to be kind of dorky and blah blah blah blah. 00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:13.039 It'll be called lean and a holiday celebration, but really like I and it's hard, and I'm the first one to admit it. 00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:23.599 I I have uh I wear my heart on my sleeve, I get frustrated, I do this thing called getting underbitey, it's not great. 00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:34.559 It's it's like this cold dead dad stare that I and this clenched jaw, and kids know when I'm in a not great mood. 00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:41.599 Um and it can happen during staff meetings, it can happen during class, it can happen at kind of at any time. 00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:47.920 But I'm going to therapy, I've been going therapy for years, art therapy, by the way, and that is normative. 00:48:48.079 --> 00:48:50.000 Um for real, for real. 00:48:51.039 --> 00:49:01.199 But um but what helps me most personally is when I remember like what I get excited and joyful about doing, right? 00:49:01.760 --> 00:49:22.480 And we get to an end of a school year, and true story, I get to the end of end of the school year, and it's very often that I'm like, oh, could we just have two more weeks so we can do this thing that we just kind of came up with, or oh, I cannot wait till fall so we can do this, or we start planning the next year. 00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:25.280 And other people are like, We let's can we just get through? 00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:26.559 Can we just survive? 00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:34.960 And I have those days too, but it's really more like oh, but the possibilities kind of awesome to have, right? 00:49:35.119 --> 00:50:13.360 And my friend Ben uh Luce, who who works there at CRCS, he has this vision for this year of doing a whole year of tabletop gaming, board games, card games, uh role-playing games as a structure for building community and with you know different types of leaderboards and also like number of games, kind of taking board game geek and like seeing how we can turn that into a cultural, like uh a community culture piece, especially since we're trying to push away from screens and and and more deliberate in how those are deployed and used. 00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:20.320 And um and and I'm just I'm so excited, he's so excited about it. 00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:23.840 And it's just that's a sort of thing. 00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:26.960 Like it doesn't have to be that everyone should do that. 00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:44.400 No, but if you have people on staff who are tuned in with the kids and he did a whole year of doing board game related electives and seminars, and he got all this like kind of a critical mass of our of our student population all know Mr. 00:50:44.559 --> 00:50:51.679 Luce plays board games and and stuff, and they don't know that I was weird because there's my whole giant uh cabinet of them back there. 00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:52.960 But it's fine, it's fine. 00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:58.639 I'm not jealous at all, um, or feel like I've been left out at all. 00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:01.760 Um sorry, therapy next week. 00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:09.039 But just leaning into that so it's so good. 00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:13.840 And then to know that your leader is leaning in because Elizabeth's like, yes, let's do it. 00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:19.920 And he knows I'm an enthusiast, and I'm like, yes, let's do it, because I'm all about game-based learning too. 00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:27.119 And I'm like, oh dude, we can run a seminar that's all built around Catan and we can do this and this and this and this and this. 00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:34.239 And it yeah, it gets it got a little like crazy out of control, but that's the joy, right?

00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:45.039 It doesn't mean the other crap isn't happening, it doesn't mean that we're not also dealing with this, this, this, this, and this, or our kids aren't struggling with this and this, or our colleagues aren't feeling this and this. 00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:55.840 It's just like when we go into the PD, if we go in already expecting uh to just have our spirits crunched. 00:51:57.199 --> 00:51:58.159 And that's what's gonna happen. 00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:01.599 Yeah, we've we've lost before we've even shown up. 00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:02.239 Yeah, yeah. 00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:11.199 But if we go in, you know, uh, you know, kind of Juliet style and look to like if looking, liking move, right? 00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:15.440 Like what let's see what happens, right? 00:52:16.639 --> 00:52:27.760 And lean into those those little those little joys that that make us do what why the heck we're we're teaching creativity and while we're teaching art and while we're teaching design. 00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:29.599 There's gotta be a reason. 00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:30.000 Yeah. 00:52:31.039 --> 00:52:35.119 And it's because it's joyful, because if it ain't, what are we doing? 00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:37.039 Yeah, yeah. 00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:42.079 Dan, I just really gotta just tell you thank you. 00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:50.159 Um, we greatly appreciate you coming on here and and uh meeting your your apparently two podcasts a year quota. 00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:54.400 Um we just can't thank you enough. 00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:56.079 Thank you so much for being on here. 00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:57.199 Oh, I love it. 00:52:57.280 --> 00:52:58.960 I love hanging out with you guys every time. 00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:00.719 Thank you so much for asking. 00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:03.280 Because uh I'll always say yes. 00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:05.599 That's what we're hoping for. 00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:08.320 That's yes, we yes, absolutely. 00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:09.119 Thanks, Dan. 00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:10.000 You're the best. 00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:11.679 You guys are the best. 00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:16.639 As always, a super fun conversation with Dan. 00:53:16.960 --> 00:53:18.480 Uh when is it not? 00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:25.280 But I know he's just you know, you meet these people along the way at education, and you're like, wow, just so much to talk about. 00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:36.000 And it's crazy because we keep talking about how we want, and I don't think we've actually met physically in person and in either quite a long time or at all. 00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:53.199 So yeah, I know that that's wild, but you know, I do find that uh in all his uh humor, he is also a really grounded and incredibly smart human that has so many uh points of wisdom to share. 00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:54.320 Oh my goodness. 00:53:54.880 --> 00:54:01.599 I think you know what unites us in our philosophy and Dan's philosophy is this idea around community and connection. 00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:12.239 And at at the central theme with this idea around professional learning or sitting in professional developments at the back school time, and maybe they're not hitting the mark. 00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:19.920 No, you know, he brought forward that you just got to keep looking for those people that are the right people for you. 00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:40.239 Yeah, to continue that because you never know, even the people you might be teaching with or had been teaching with at campus for a while, and you think, oh, there's no way we don't have anything in common, you'd kind of really be surprised, and next thing you know, you're sparking off ideas back and forth, and like, hey, how about this? 00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:41.599 Oh, hell how about that? 00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:50.159 So I think getting out of your silo, and you know, even if it's just down to like looking for what is your goal this year? 00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:51.360 What is your goal? 00:54:52.079 --> 00:55:22.960 Well, and I love the fact, you know, I well, I always find it interesting and kind of uh humbling in a way when when we talk with him because I always forget that he you know started as English, as language arts, and you know, and yes, he was creative even in even in that, even in another subject area was still pulling a lot of those creativity pieces into it. 00:55:23.199 --> 00:55:40.000 So well, and he reached out to us in in K-12 Art Chat back when he was on Twitter, and you know, it's just a perfect example of you don't have to teach the same subject area to have similar goals and mindsets around education and educational philosophy. 00:55:40.159 --> 00:55:55.519 And when you can find those people that that are there for you, then it helps you avoid some of the burnout and some of the you know frustrations, especially when you're sitting in a professional development that you're like, what is what what am I doing here? 00:55:55.679 --> 00:56:03.440 You know, and I also liked you know the idea of just trying to get one thing out of it, just just look for that one thing, you know. 00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:16.000 So, you know, uh my dad, even though he was a coach, was a science teacher and uh a very creative science teacher before it was even considered the thing. 00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:18.000 So, but you know what else? 00:56:18.159 --> 00:56:24.960 Uh you kind of hit on the idea of you know the people and being interested and and all the things you can look for. 00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:29.920 Where where can some people look for some more information? 00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:33.280 Well, we try to say this every single wrap-up. 00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:34.079 I think so. 00:56:34.239 --> 00:56:38.159 But I just think it is really a truly wonderful free resource. 00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:49.440 If you go to davisart.com and you look under free resources, you will find our podcast in every episode, and right alongside it, you'll find a list of resources to accompany it. 00:56:49.679 --> 00:56:56.480 So get in there and start looking around, go back and listen to some some older podcasts and find those resources. 00:56:56.639 --> 00:57:02.400 There's a wealth of information and resources there that you can, you know, just dig into. 00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:05.840 And I I I appreciate Davis for housing all of that for us. 00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:17.039 And, you know, if people want to connect further or connect with additional people or even with us, um, a really good way to do that is through our social media on Instagram at creativity. 00:57:18.719 --> 00:57:20.320 Um, or send us an email. 00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:29.920 We would love to connect with you further and can send you and share more resources with you at the creativitypt at gmail.com. 00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:39.679 Um, we would love to hear from you and love to hear you know feedback about our episodes and about any episode or one we might have in the future. 00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:54.320 Lastly, if you can rate and review and give any feedback wherever you listen to this podcast, so whether that be Apple, Spotify, Amazon, um, just give us that thumbs up and I sound like a YouTuber. 00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:57.280 But it does help us if you do rate and review the podcast. 00:57:58.800 --> 00:57:59.440 Subscribe. 00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:00.639 Yes, thank you. 00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:03.039 Um, so make sure to do all the things. 00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:07.280 Uh, but most of all, make sure to have a wonderful and creative week ahead. 00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:08.079 Thank you.