บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Tim Marshall

00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:52.639 No, I get it. 00:02:52.639 --> 00:03:05.599 And I noted the football chants, and I thought, well, should we instead of all this geopolitical stuff, should we just talk about Burnham and whether or not he is authentic and how we test it by getting him to sing a northern football chant? 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:07.199 Oh, I think he could. 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:13.520 I mean, that you know, I I read today he's has been asked to tone it down a wee bit because he is laying it on a bit thick. 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:23.599 But no, I think he's a proper football fan, unlike other prime ministers that shall remain nameless that couldn't tell the difference between Aston Villa and West Ham because they happen to wear similar colours. 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:26.319 This I know as a diehard West Ham fan. 00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:42.479 So listen, I will start him by quoting the words on the inside cover of Prisoners of Geography, because I think they're a really good way in, and I quote, not from memory, all leaders are constrained by geography. 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:48.400 Their choices are limited by mountains, rivers, seas, and concrete. 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:59.360 Yes, to follow world events you need to understand people, ideas, and movements, but if you don't know geography, you'll never have the full picture. 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:03.520 So I know we're constrained by time. 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:06.240 People have got dogs to walk and fish to fry. 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:15.280 But can we start with a very quick but should we say concise look at what's going on right now in the Middle East? 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:28.240 Twenty-one miles of geography, the Strait of Hormuz, is constraining and checking, not yet checkmated, but we'll see, the greatest military power the world has ever seen. 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:35.279 Were the Strait of Hormuz, well, it wouldn't be a strait, but if it was 200 miles across, we wouldn't be in this predicament. 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:38.319 Iran would not be able to in that manner. 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:48.079 So what's going on there is that the Americans, for various reasons, have failed to see that that little bit of geography might be a bit of a flaw. 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:50.079 I mean, there's other bits of geography as well. 00:04:50.079 --> 00:05:02.160 That the another card that the Iranians can play is to press upon their allies in Yemen, the Houthis, that if we come a cropper, you can still close the Red Sea to uh traffic. 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:06.720 This is pushing a number of other events. 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:14.160 A lot of Arab countries have realized that their biggest issue is not Israel, it's Iran. 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:17.839 A lot of countries are now looking out of balance. 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:22.560 One of the most significant things that's happened in the last since this war began. 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:32.240 Well, actually, since last year, when the first

bombing happened, the 12-day war, is Saudi Arabia getting into a security arrangement with Pakistan. 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:34.079 They're going to bring in Turkey. 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:45.279 And what's happening there is that these three have read the future, because the future is that the Americans genuinely mean to draw back. 00:05:45.279 --> 00:06:08.879 They don't want to stop being the world's most powerful power with influence everywhere, but what they do want to do is revert to normal and draw back and actually let friends, sometimes allies, carry the weight of the burden of security in their regions whilst they sit on top of it trying to pull all the strings. 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:18.959 The Europeans have uh they may be finally waking up to that's what's happening and realizing we better get our own house in order. 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:22.800 But I think most of the rest of the world realized it before the Europeans did. 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:24.160 I think that's what's happening. 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:29.519 That's in the Middle East, but the Middle East is in the context of what's happening globally. 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:48.399 One of the things that strikes me as somebody who's interested but very amateurish in my perspective, I guess, is that one thing, maybe the one thing the Americans won't do any more than Israel would do in Gaza, is put boots on the ground. 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:50.160 As in house to house. 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:52.160 Well, no, that's what the Israelis have done, though. 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:53.600 They've suffered so many losses. 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:57.759 Obviously, on the other side, the losses have been far, far greater and immense. 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:06.079 But the Israeli losses are exactly because instead of just carpet bombing, they've gone house to house to try and clear and they've lost so many people. 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:08.639 But when it comes to the Americans, 100%. 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:21.920 It's not even ripples, it's still, I wouldn't say tidal waves, but strong waves lapping out from the Iraq War of 2003 and then the embarrassment of leaving there and then leaving Afghanistan. 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:25.279 They're still lapping up on the America's political shores. 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:30.480 And that's why they won't go onto the mainland in numbers. 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:36.959 You can't rule out an operation against one of the islands, but they are not going to invade Iran. 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:39.199 Thank you for that clarity. 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:48.399 Let's move swiftly to another, I suppose it's what military types call a theatre in Ukraine. 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:58.399 And what fascinates me, maybe because I like a kind of pictorial way of seeing things, I quite liked the whole fuss there was about infographics. 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:00.079 I was rather taken by all that. 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:06.800 I'm trying to see it as a set of dominoes, as in if this happens, that will happen. 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:21.360 So let's suppose it's probably not suited to dominoes, the situation in Ukraine rumbles on for two, three, four more years without any substantial changes. 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:23.759 Presumably nothing happens with the dominoes. 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:27.680 But if something gives, like, I don't know. 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:28.800 Well, let's start there. 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:29.920 What might give? 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:34.320 What might change the situation in Ukraine and why? 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:41.919 There's a number of things, and also again, the ramifications of Russia's invasion are immense. 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:52.879 They actually fit into the previous answer when I was talking about how America wants regional allies to take on the security burden, it's the same in Europe. 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:54.720 In fact, that's probably the place. 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:59.840 I mean, they're doing the same with Japan and Australia, South Korea and Taiwan in the Pacific. 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:02.879 They're doing it in the Middle East, and they're doing it in Europe. 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:19.840 Because fundamentally, what happened when Putin completely failed in the opening days was he got rid of the Americans' primary issue with Europe, which is that no one power is allowed to rise and dominate the whole continent. 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:31.759 Hence they arrived in 1917 because of Germany, they came back in 1944 because of Germany, they stayed in the Cold War because of Soviets, and they stayed on a little bit longer because of Russia. 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:39.360 But the moment Russia proves it can't even reach the center of Kyiv, well, the justification for being there finishes. 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:42.159 And so the burden has to come on the Europeans. 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:46.559 So to go directly to your question, there's various scenarios. 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:52.879 Let's say the Russians have a massive breakthrough and roll all the way to uh Lviv on the Polish border. 00:09:52.879 --> 00:10:06.639 The knock-on effect of that is that then the massive long NATO front line in Central Europe, they are face to face with the Russian front line and all the tensions that that would bring. 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:15.039 An emboldened Russia, then perhaps in various ways probing and testing in the Baltic states. 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:22.000 And in the event that the Americans have gone, I don't think they will, but if they had, I don't see Portugal fighting for Estonia. 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:33.759 And in the event of them probing and us having no reaction, then they would take the Baltics, followed by or preceded by Moldova, followed by or preceded by Georgia. 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:40.320 All these things are plausible given the history and the geography of the region. 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:43.360 The other one, of course, is that the Ukrainians break

through. 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:56.000 It's pretty difficult, leading to a catastrophic defeat for Putin, who then falls out of a window, and another Putinesque figure takes over and the tensions continue. 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:57.919 I mean, you know, history's not going to end. 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:20.000 I commend to everybody listening that in Prisoners of Geography, you have a wonderful chapter about Russia, and explain through geography the importance of the line with NATO countries, the importance of Crimea in particular Sevastopol. 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:30.320 And I suppose I'm kind of thinking, well, okay, what if somehow or other I get that it seems ridiculously far-fetched. 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:40.159 But what if Ukraine blew up or somehow or other regained control of Sevastopol? 00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:46.720 Because that's after reading you, I now understand much better, as a warm water port. 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:49.279 Yes that's mightily important. 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:51.840 Could that change the dominance? 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:55.360 Yes, it absolutely throws Russia on the back foot. 00:11:55.360 --> 00:12:05.440 And that was its primary reason for starting the war in the first place, back in 2014, before the full invasion three years ago. 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:12.879 Sebastopol in the Crimea, on the Black Sea, biggest port they have, which has warm water. 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:26.879 But of course, it was Ukrainian, because Khrushchev, in the late 50s, I think it was, believing that Soviet men would live forever, gave Crimea to Ukraine. 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:33.360 It actually has, for most of history, been far more aligned with Russia or part of Russia. 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:36.559 But he, in his wisdom, gave it to Ukraine. 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:42.240 And then after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Russians managed to get a long lease. 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:46.799 So the Black Sea fleet didn't have to build another one somewhere else. 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:55.360 And it's their crucial port, the only Walmart port they have, because the other ones are up north, and it's very hard for them to get out to the oceans. 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:57.039 It's hard to get out of the Black Sea. 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:04.879 You've got to go through the Bosphorus, Dardanals, past about ten NATO states, through the Strait of Gibraltar, and only then you in the ocean. 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:12.320 So it's a raison d'etre for the first conflict, and they will fight tooth and nail to keep it. 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:14.080 I mean, they're getting hammered down there. 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:20.240 The people down there are wondering who actually, genuinely most of them wanted the Russians to come and take it over. 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.080 They're mostly Russian speakers down there. 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:23.759 Not all of them, but a lot of them. 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:29.600 They're not so sure it was such a good idea now because they're getting hammered and hit, and they have problems with water supply. 00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:35.440 To answer the question, sorry, Jeremy, which is I doubt the Ukrainians can take it. 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:41.360 If they did, basically the Black Sea fleet loses its historic port. 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:53.279 They only had a about 20 years left on the lease anyway, and they worried that if Ukraine was a friend of the Western nations, it would, at the end of this, terminate the agreement, which is why they acted to secure it. 00:13:53.279 --> 00:14:09.440 I don't think the Ukrainians can, but if they did, yeah, it fundamentally changes because then the Ukrainian Navy is in that wonderful deep water port, and um the Russians who've already had to withdraw some of the fleet to another port deeper into the Black Sea. 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:12.639 But yes, they would lose one of their cram jewels. 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:19.919 Well, we can't forget, of course, the words of the great visionary Donald Trump who said that leases aren't worth the paper they're written on. 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:34.559 Actually, let's pop across and look at what's going on in America just for a moment, because of the challenge being placed on democracy, which of course is happening elsewhere. 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:49.360 And it kind of raises the question in my mind, because there might or might not be a European parallel, of exactly where do populists sit in that line between totalitarian machines and democracies. 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:50.000 Yeah. 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:51.440 Where's America going? 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:52.320 Civil war. 00:14:52.960 --> 00:15:00.480 Well, um I had lunch with a very senior American banker who actually runs a household name bank. 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:03.759 And he actually said he thinks they're going towards civil war. 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:07.360 And he knows the country better than I do, but I still disagree. 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:10.000 And that's because America's been here before. 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:13.919 If you look at, was it 68, the Kent State shootings? 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:20.960 Whenever it was, late 60s, early 70s, National Guard are brought in because of the divisions in the country. 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:25.360 There's massive tensions on the campuses, and they shot dead four students. 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:27.200 I mean, that's how bad it was. 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:31.279 We had the Watts riots, the Vietnam demonstrations. 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:39.120 We had the shooting of Bobby Kennedy, JFK, Martin Luther King, busing in in Boston, segregated. 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:45.600 You know, you name it, that was a country divided, as it was in 1860, in the start of the Civil War. 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:50.799 So, yes, you can't rule out a return to the Civil War that they had 150 years ago. 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:57.759 I think a more likely scenario is that they've come through this

very, very difficult divided time. 00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:08.320 And I think there's some way to go yet, especially if you look at the trajectory of the Democrats, who are embracing what in American terms is radical far-left ideology. 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:18.639 So I don't think the divisions are going to heal yet, but when I think they will, at which point we might come back to something more approaching where we were. 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:30.960 The other thing about the states is, and it goes around in I don't know about circles or linear, it's just interesting comparisons in the foreign policy, is that they actually are reverting to norm. 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.879 It's normal for the Americans not to try not to be involved in Europe. 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:36.559 That's the norm for America. 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:39.840 It's abnormal what our generation has lived through. 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.200 And therefore we think it's normal just because we lived through it. 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:51.759 But 70 years of their involvement against 170 years preceding it of their non-involvement in Europe, they're reverting to norm. 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:57.120 They care much more about the backyard and trying to get everybody to take responsibility for their own area. 00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:57.600 Right. 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:01.039 Where do they sit, these populists? 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:18.880 Let's quickly turn to Hungary and Viktor Orban, who quickly turned Hungary into a I wouldn't say an authoritarian state, but certainly began to slowly try to dismantle some of the democratic norms, but they were strong enough to hold up, and he was kicked out. 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:24.079 I'm confident that the American constitution is strong enough to survive Trump. 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:28.240 I'm not saying America will ever go back to completely to how it's been. 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:32.319 He's not going to stand for a third term, that the Constitution would forbid it. 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:34.880 That would actually cause a civil war, I think. 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:38.960 So I think it depends on the populist and the country. 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:45.119 If you have a populist that genuinely wants to turn it into a dictatorship authoritarian state, there are levers you can pull. 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:52.400 So therefore, it is then how powerful is the state and the constitution to withstand those challenges? 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:55.200 And in America, I think it's very robust. 00:17:55.200 --> 00:18:10.640 In other countries, far less so, let's say a country like Ethiopia or a country like Rwanda, if you get a populist there that wants to take that route, then you can advance towards authoritarianism more quickly. 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:14.559 And I think Kigami, for example, in Rwanda is a good example. 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:27.200 Let's turn to other threats, all of which have some kind of I imagine, some kind of geographical dimension to them. 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:31.759 First of all, sorry, this is a bit of a tangent from a tangent, but I'll be quick about it. 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:46.079 I bumped into a Tory grandee recently who was talking about Islam being the biggest threat we face in the UK. 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:51.119 I uh instinctively and strongly disagree with that. 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:56.480 But it's very, very, very clear that quite a lot of people are buying into it. 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:23.680 And that sort of makes me wonder whether we should at least consider whether we're witnessing or taking part in actually what might turn out to be a very significant clash between what some people now in I think an unfortunate way call a Judeo-Christian thing, set of values, civilization, use whatever word you will, and an Islamic one. 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:35.599 First of all, is that going to run out of energy as it becomes apparent that it's wildly, wildly exaggerated as a threat? 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:37.039 Or could it become real? 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:39.680 And in that case, what part does geography play in it? 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.400 Presumably in terms of migration, I don't know. 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:48.319 Well, it's possibly the most sensitive discussion in politics at the moment. 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:54.559 The idea that it is the greatest threat comes from demographics, but it's not just demographics. 00:19:54.559 --> 00:20:03.279 It comes from the tension between I'm uncomfortable with the phrase Judaic Christian heritage. 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:10.240 I mean, even though I would say to a degree the dominant culture is built on it, but it's a bit of a catch-all. 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:21.279 But there is a tension between the concept which Jesus came up with, which is render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's. 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:35.680 In other words, it's in the book that the culture was founded on up to a point after all our ancestors killed each other in large numbers and stole bits of land, that religion and the state and politics should be separate. 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:40.400 And I know that the king is the head of the Church of England as well, I know that. 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:43.039 Nevertheless, we do have that separation. 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:45.839 There is no such separation in Islam. 00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.480 Religion is politics, politics is religion. 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:49.920 There's no separation. 00:20:49.920 --> 00:21:01.920 And that does present a tension because people therefore do vote along religious lines, which is problematic. 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:07.119 So this country is what about 8% Islamic at the moment? 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:19.920 But the other problem with the idea of it being the biggest threat is that if the 8% were Islamists, as in radical political Islamists, then there's a problem. 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:36.079 Because without doubt, the Muslim

Brotherhood is here, is organized, and is trying to radicalize as many people as it can because it wants tension, it wants to create divisions, because the Muslim Brotherhood has a global plan to take over the world. 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:51.200 I mean, I I know it sounds fantastical, but if any research into the Muslim Brotherhood, it's very, very clear if you read their founding fathers from the 60s and 70s, the famous book called Milestones, which I mean it's all just it's laid out there. 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:57.599 Because you have to do God's will, and God's will is that your version of Islam is the one that the world has to have. 00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.440 So there is this tension here. 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:04.880 And i we do see it played out in our streets in some of the debate. 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:13.440 So the battle, if you like, is for the soul of Islam in the places that Islam is moving to in large numbers. 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:15.759 I don't think it's a thing about skin colour, by the way. 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:17.519 I think it's a thing about culture and religion. 00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:19.119 It's not skin colour. 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:26.000 So do I really believe that most of the Muslims I meet on a day-to-day basis want to take over the world? 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:26.640 No. 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:31.680 Most of them support England when they play football and would just want to get on with their lives. 00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:49.359 But that is not to say there is not a problem which needs understanding, but that's a very different thing to saying that's the greatest threat, especially if you look at global warming, Russia, the collapse in respect for democracy. 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:51.119 We face a lot of challenges. 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:54.400 Sorry, it's a very long answer, but it's a very, very sensitive subject. 00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:56.640 And would that we had longer to talk about it. 00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:01.200 By the way, I I have a homespun theory, which you could shoot down, but we wouldn't have time for it. 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:18.559 That actually there's another dividing line which crosses all these cultural things, but somehow or other groups this Tory grandee with a lot of people on the Islamic side, which is the divide between modernists and conservatives. 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:25.359 I'm quite curious about the connection between the conservatives on both sides, but we have no time for that. 00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:30.240 I do want to come back a little bit because as I said, that I do think there is a problem. 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:39.680 I don't believe it should not be exaggerated, but I go back to you see it played out over and over again that when there is an incident, you see the same groups and the same people. 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:54.240 Let's say it's a school, but awful incident in Battle in Yorkshire, where the teacher warned everybody, said anybody wants to leave, and

then showed a picture of the Prophet Muhammad, he was not trying to insult anyone, but the guy is still in hiding. 00:23:54.240 --> 00:24:05.519 Well, the people that organized all that, and I would say whipped it up, are the same people and all the same type of people that in every single one of these incidents, they go for political reasons to try and whip all this up. 00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:10.640 And they have a degree of success with people that think they might have some grievances. 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:32.000 And I do think most mainstream media is so frightened of the subject that they are frightened to say there is an organized effort to whip things up and to push us against each other, just as there is on the far right, because you see those same people turning up again and again. 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:37.839 But there is a reluctance to talk about it on one side, but not on the other. 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:40.319 Now, I hope that that is measured. 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:47.920 The problem is if you're on one side or the other, I'm not come down on your side, and there consequently you can shout at me. 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.880 Would that we could talk more about the role of the media and their responsibility? 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:59.759 Listen, Tim, just to wrap up very, very quickly, I have some entirely unspontaneous quickfire questions. 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:00.640 Oh dear. 00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:02.640 The answer's both to most of them. 00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:04.960 No, they're not difficult at all, I promise them. 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:08.240 Sometimes I toss in difficult ones, but these are easy. 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:09.279 Number one. 00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:16.720 Should geography join English and maths as a compulsory subject in the new school curriculum? 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:17.680 Nope. 00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.400 That's a big quiet wow from me. 00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:22.160 It's a reluctant no. 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:23.279 Maths. 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:24.160 Absolutely. 00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:25.759 English, absolutely. 00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:42.079 Look, teach it and teach it well and energize, and it has grown in popularity, and it is now quite a cool subject to at university because they folded in things like tumor geography, bit of history, terrain, politics, people movement, climate change. 00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:45.680 You know, they folded it all into things that used to be bloody soil samples. 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:47.440 Yeah, I had in when I was a kid. 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:52.480 So as long as it's taught properly, you will energize new generations to study it. 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:58.079 But no, I think maths, English, and the equivalent of how to write a check. 00:25:58.079 --> 00:25:59.200 Social skills. 00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:01.839 This from the man who put the geo in geopolitics. 00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:02.799 Question number two. 00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:16.559 Having written recently about the space race, the new space race, the future of space, would you like to be among the first group of humans to colonize Mars? 00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:17.920 No. 00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:18.960 Thanks. 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:25.519 I don't even really want to visit, but I'll go to the moon at the drop of a hat and hopefully come back three days later. 00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:29.039 But Mars, talking a couple of years. 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:31.920 Just, you know, if you decide you don't like it, you want to come back? 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:32.319 No. 00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:33.759 I'll leave that to Elon. 00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:34.799 If only. 00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:36.319 Final question. 00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:38.160 This is a lovely one. 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:40.880 Tim, what's your next book about? 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:42.160 It's not. 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:45.119 It's a blank page with no words on it. 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:47.440 Only connect, the rest is silence. 00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:49.599 If a tree falls in a forest, etc. 00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:52.559 I've been saying for two years I'm probably not going to write one. 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.319 Unless I wake up one morning, uh that'll be true. 00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:58.400 And think I'd have to write this. 00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:03.680 I'm enjoying writing some long-form essays for August publications. 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:11.359 And what I thought you were going to ask me was John Smith or Tetley's, or Mackison or um Guinness, or Red or White Wine. 00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:13.279 Because the answer to all of those is both. 00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:16.880 The future of the Samuel Smith Brewery, which is now, you know, who knows? 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:19.680 I have one for you. 00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:22.079 Uh West Ham coming back up this season. 00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:25.680 Did you hear that? 00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:26.960 I think they are. 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:28.160 You kept Boeing. 00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:29.119 That was the sign. 00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:33.599 I said obviously, I devoutly hope that they will. 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:38.000 Well, some are reasonably good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:39.039 Nah, you'll come back. 00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:43.359 By the way, in no, let's start and where we started, dirty northern bastards. 00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:48.160 I asked a question at the beginning of that, going off the old Buddhist thing about a tree in the forest. 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:54.640 If Ronaldo scores a goal in a stadium and there's no one in it, does it count? 00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:56.319 And the answer is no. 00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:00.319 And that's what Gianni Infantino should be learning. 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:13.200 And that, dear listener, is the thought to play around with in your mind for however long it takes. 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:14.799 Thank you, Tim. 00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:16.000 Can we compromise? 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:23.599 Will you at least consider the idea of a further update to prisoners of geography in another ten years' time? 00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:24.480 Yes. 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.400 I believe AI is quite good at that. 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:27.839 I don't use it yet. 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:30.880 Thank you for making me laugh about AI, that's a fuss. 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:32.400 Have a lovely day, Tim. 00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:32.640 Thank you. 00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:33.920 You look lovely well. 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:35.279 Thank you very much. 00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:37.759 I look forward to seeing you again. 00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:53.039 But I also have to say to those listeners who work with speakers, as I spent a large part of my life doing, that if you want your audience to know what's going on, don't just give them copies of the book. 00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:56.400 Get Tim to stand in front of them. 00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:01.279 Because it will make their eyes open. 00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:02.720 Checks in the post. 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:03.359 Checks. 00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:04.960 I thought we weren't doing checks anymore. 00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:07.039 There's a bank transfer on its way to you. 00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:07.359 Thank you. 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:08.079 Good now. 00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:09.359 Music is coming. 00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:09.920 See you soon. 00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:10.640 Thanks, Tim.