บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Best Bits Series Three

shootings? 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:35.759 National Guard are brought in because of the divisions in the country. 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:40.240 There's massive tensions on the campuses, and they shot dead four students. 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:42.000 I mean, that's how bad it was. 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:46.079 We had the Watts riots, the Vietnam demonstrations. 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:54.000 We had the shooting of Bobby Kennedy, JFK, Martin Luther King, busing in in Boston, segregated. 00:05:54.240 --> 00:06:00.480 You know, you name it, that was a country divided, as it was in 1860, in the start of the Civil War. 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:05.680 So, yes, you can't rule out a return to the Civil War that they had 150 years ago. 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:12.560 I think a more likely scenario is that they've come through this very, very difficult divided time. 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:23.120 And I think there's some way to go yet, especially if you look at the trajectory of the Democrats, who are embracing what in American terms is radical far-left ideology. 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:33.519 So I don't think the divisions are going to heal yet, but when I think they they will, at which point we might come back to something more approaching where we were. 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:45.839 The other thing about the states is, and it goes around in I don't know about circles or linear, it's just interesting comparisons in the foreign policy, is that they actually are reverting to norm. 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:49.759 It's normal for the Americans not to try not to be involved in Europe. 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:51.439 That's the norm for America. 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:54.720 It's abnormal, what our generation has lived through. 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:58.000 And therefore we think it's normal just because we lived through it. 00:06:58.319 --> 00:07:06.560 But 70 years of their involvement against 170 years preceding it of their non-involvement in Europe, they're reverting to norm. 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:12.160 They care much more about the backyard and trying to get everybody to take responsibility for their own area. 00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:19.279 The problem for me is that what happens in their backyard pretty much affects us in ours. 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:28.240 Anyway, we're still with Americans for the time being, because I've known one particular Republican insider for a long time. 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:35.519 Todd Buchholz served as White House Director of Economic Policy under George H. 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:36.160 Bush. 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:40.319 He then went off to head a$15 billion hedge fund. 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:45.600 And along the way, he won Harvard's economics teaching prize. 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:52.000 And actually, apropos of nothing whatsoever, he was also co-producer of the musical Jersey Boys. 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:59.600 But what was on my mind when we spoke, as it is all too often, was AI. 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:07.600 I think the best analogy is to the beginning of the automobile industry in the early 20th century. 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:14.480 There were literally thousands of automobile makers around the world. 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:23.680 The United States alone had thousands of auto companies in the early days making cars, not just little bits, not just, oh, the thousands that made ashtrays and brake pads. 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:26.319 No, there are thousands that made full cars. 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:30.160 But only three survived. 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:35.200 That is, for many decades, we talked about the big three: General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:37.759 Did that mean the auto industry didn't survive? 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:45.840 No, the auto industry thrived and became pretty much the biggest industry in the country, but thousands and thousands went bankrupt. 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:50.320 So we look at artificial intelligence and data centers and so on. 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:56.399 And I think the industry itself and the promise of the industry is enormous. 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:00.799 But can we figure out in advance who the survivors are? 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:04.960 I think that's a pretty difficult thing from an investment point of view. 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:14.720 Having said that, there are certain companies at any particular time that look nearly untouchable and in almost monopoly positions. 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:24.320 I mean, you look at NVIDIA today, does lead the world in chip intelligence, and no one else seems particularly close. 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:25.679 Will they have that forever? 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:27.600 Well, I doubt forever. 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:36.480 There was a time when we all walked around in the 80s with Sony Walkman, and Sony had all the portable audio products. 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:38.799 And we thought, well, they're the best. 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:47.200 And then Apple came out with the iPod, and I don't, you know, really haven't heard of Sony since, except for flat screen TVs and a few other products. 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:57.200 So at any snapshot in time, we'll point out certain companies that seem as if maybe they will be eternal. 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:03.840 But markets are ferocious in finding weaknesses and exploiting them. 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:12.879 Bottom line, Jeremy, I think AI is truly a big deal and will continue to be a big deal from an investment point of view. 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:25.519 I would advise investors who want to be part of that to invest in a broad way and not think they can figure out which specific company is going to be the big winner in the next five to ten years. 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:29.360 We will get to the fun bits in a minute, I promise you. 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:32.559 But just let's stick with AI for a moment. 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:41.200 Will Gyatt is a wonderfully grounded guide to the twists and turns of technology. 00:10:41.440 -->

00:10:47.279 On one medium or another, ten million of us listen to him every week. 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:57.440 So the question is, am I fantasizing when I dream about consumers turning their backs on AI? 00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:03.440 I hope sincerely that loads of us do say no and stand up. 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:16.720 But if you look at it as an example, Deezer, who are the French version of Spotify, France always has its own versions of stuff still, which I'm quite proud of the French for kind of setting up yours to globalism and doing their own versions. 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:26.159 There were some numbers recently that 70% of all new music uploaded to Deezer has not been created by a human being. 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:32.399 Now, that could be terrible if you're a musician or a talented young person who wants to get a gig. 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:35.600 But the reality is, Jeremy, people are listening to it. 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:41.120 They might be listening to it as background music dill jazz, but they're not rejecting it yet. 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:55.200 So for all this say of we're going to smash the printing presses, we're going to reject AI, too many of us are still now so embed with the technology and love using it for a variety of reasons. 00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:14.399 And I'm morally torn every day I play with AI because I know at some point at least one of the people I've happily worked for over 20 years is going to call me and say, Yeah, we've decided we're going to use an AI voice to do some of this technology explaining because we can just get the AI to produce it. 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:22.639 Not that the groups that I currently work with, but there are already radio stations experimenting with AI voices for news and sport. 00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:35.759 And boy, give it the name Loughborough, give it the town name Loughborough, or try and get it to announce some of the names of some Serbian tennis players, and you'll really see just how not ready for action AI currently is. 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:47.600 But it's getting there really quickly, and I think we are going to get to a stage where there will be a movement against the technology, and there'll be a movement against some of this stuff getting into our lives. 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:54.639 But at the same time, there's so many really good benefits for people to be online if you make it easier for them. 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:56.480 But not everybody's ever going to want to do it. 00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:00.159 And I I'm sort of torn into saying everybody should go online. 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:02.639 You should have freedom of choice still, you shouldn't be forced. 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:05.600 I'm not torn at all, but hey, that's just me. 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:13.360 Now, if you do listen regularly, you'll know that I sometimes ask quickfire questions at the end. 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:25.200 And the one I desperately wanted to ask Will was what's the silliest invention, the silliest bit of tech you've ever come across? 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:36.639 I once saw, and I never quite worked out why on earth you'd need this, a kebab spit that ran on the USB of a computer. 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:43.679 And the USB, for those who might be a bit like Jeremy, is the bit that you plug the mouse or whatever your accessory is. 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:50.080 And I kind of got around the technology and thought, you must be getting quite a bit of power draw from that to rotate a slab of meat. 00:13:50.320 --> 00:14:02.000 But I've never quite understood exactly why you'd want a uh USB-powered kebab spit, but I saw it one year at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, and I've wanted one ever since. 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:05.039 You might have caught me laughing in the background then. 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:14.480 And actually, true to my contrarian stance on just about anything, I am quite tempted by the idea of a kebab stick. 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:19.919 I don't think I'd use it for kebabs on my desk, but I'm pretty sure I'd find something for it. 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:27.519 Now, it is my pleasure and honour to introduce you to my aunt. 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:29.440 And you won't have heard of her. 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:38.559 She's not famous, but she is a hundred and five and knocking on the door of a hundred and six. 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:47.679 I had so many questions to ask her, particularly about her wartime experience. 00:14:54.320 --> 00:15:02.000 I used to see these girls in uniforms and other I'd like to join up. 00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:06.960 I couldn't join the Air Force because the colour didn't suit me. 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:11.679 And the Navy wouldn't suit me either. 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:14.480 So the only one remaining was the Army. 00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:23.120 So I decided to join the Army when I was seventeen, I think. 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:24.960 And I had the best time. 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:32.320 Well, now I've heard you say this, and there may be some listeners who think, what, there was a horrible war going on. 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:36.960 But you've never covered up the fact that you had a lot of fun in the war. 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:44.559 So during the day, the serious part is that you became one of the first women, I think, to work in radar. 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:45.120 Yes. 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:45.519 Yeah? 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:46.799 Were you any good at it? 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:48.320 Not particularly. 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:58.159 I can say that I enjoyed being in the army but amongst a group of girls, all strangers. 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:01.360 It was a different atmosphere entirely. 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:02.000 Yeah. 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:13.519 See, we were of a special group for the radar girls, which was new then, and you had to be of certain intelligence. 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:15.120 How they picked me up. 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:17.519 Oh, I knew you

were gonna say that. 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:24.399 Doesn't Doris just restore your faith in humanity? 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:32.720 Now, Doris used to be a regular listener to my next guest. 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:38.159 But then for reasons I've never discovered, she went off in. 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:39.919 I'm giggling at the thought of it. 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:43.200 Anyway, Steve Allen, we're talking about. 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:59.120 Steve was the legendary host of the early breakfast show on LBC, keeping an army of loyal fans until she changed her mind, and sometimes lonely listeners, company before dawn. 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:09.599 But his radio career started when he met up with one Dale Winton, who became a lifelong friend. 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:15.279 And he'd said to me, he said, Listen, he said, you should come and see my boss at UBN. 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:16.240 I said, What's UBN? 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:19.920 He said, United Biscuits, which was up the road at Gillette Corner. 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.599 So I went up there and I met the boss of that and I auditioned. 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:25.279 They sat me in a little studio. 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:30.400 And it was a radio station in a biscuit factory paying£400 a month. 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:31.200 Oh my god. 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:35.839 Which was a lot of when I was earning eight pounds a night,£400 a month was a lot of money. 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:43.200 And you would sit in your studio, and we had four-hour shows each, and I did, for some reason, the overnight show again. 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:48.160 So I'd finished doing Richmond and then drive up to uh United Biscuits. 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.680 Did you have to play biscuit-based songs? 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:54.160 No, but you had to make jingles. 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:59.200 Part of the deal was you had to make jingles that they could play in the factories. 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:01.680 So for each two workers there was one speaker. 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:05.440 They couldn't hear anything else apart from United Biscuits Network. 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:11.599 So we went out to Scotland, Liverpool, Manchester, Austerly, and Harleston. 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:13.839 And we used to go around to do factory visits. 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:22.160 And they would write in on calling cards saying, Can you play a record for Jess Pegg and whoever on Jelly Rounds number five in Manchester? 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:31.359 If you want to find out more about what Steve and I got up to in those old days on LBC, you'll have to listen to the episode. 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:34.720 But there's one more clip I want to play you of Steve. 00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:44.160 When he took on the so-called early breakfast show, you have to remember that it was supposedly a phone-in show. 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:47.440 Only Steve knew better. 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:53.759 He decided he wasn't going to take any calls whatsoever. 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:56.160 And I'll tell you the reason the very simple reason. 00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:02.319 If you're flowing with a story and you're doing a story and it's going really well, a phone call can hold it up. 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:05.759 So you might go, and here's Mary in Sutton. 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.160 And Mary goes, Oh, hello hello. 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.039 Immediately you've lost the thread of the programme. 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:12.640 I've got to keep up the momentum. 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:12.799 Yeah. 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:14.960 Otherwise I'm backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards. 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:18.319 So I made a conscious decision that I didn't want to do phone-ins. 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:25.119 Because people just wanted to phone up and say, I love listening to you, which is very nice, but it's holding up the programme. 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:28.079 I've got loads of people to slag off before we even get round to you. 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:30.240 You know, you've got to go with this kind of thing. 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:31.599 And so that was the reason. 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:36.240 We're now firmly in Chope's territory, dear listener. 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:41.759 Andy Hamilton made his name as a comedy screenwriter and director. 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:50.640 He co-created Drop the Dead Donkey, and what, in my view, is the best British sitcom this century so far. 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:52.799 It's called Outnumbered. 00:19:53.039 --> 00:20:00.960 Naturally, I wanted him to share some of those behind-the-scenes stories just between us. 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.279 People talk about continuity. 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:10.240 And when Ramona Marquez, who played Karen, well, when we did the the sample, the pilot, she was four. 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:16.160 Whenever she was drawing, I mean, for her, the scene was usually about what she was drawing. 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:18.240 That was the most important thing. 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:29.119 But obviously we didn't do retakes and pickups and stuff, but occasionally when we had to go back over something, her pencil changes colour every shot. 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:34.079 And I remember one lovely exchange we just started, and we had a lovely PA. 00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:48.480 She was very well trained, very professional, and we were picking something up, you know, we'd seen and Sarah I could hear her, I had the cans, the mic, I could hear the conversation, and I could hear her saying to Ramona, Ramona, we're just about to redo something. 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:51.759 Could you pick up the blue pencil that you had? 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:55.200 And Ramona just said, But I'm doing the sun now. 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.440 She said, yellow. 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:02.000 And the PA said, Yes, but it would be helpful if you just had the blue. 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:07.119 She said, Well, I can't do a blue sun, because then it'll be a blue sun

against the blue sky. 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:08.720 You won't be able to see it's the same. 00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:13.200 Yeah, we just went over to Sarah and said, Look, don't worry about it. 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:14.559 No one will ever notice. 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:16.240 And no one ever has noticed. 00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:27.200 Talking as we were a moment ago with Steve Allen about the start of his career, Andy and I discovered we had something in common. 00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:38.240 Before he got his break as a writer on not the nine o'clock news, I think, and before I started flogging talent, we had both worked at Harrod's. 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:42.640 So I was in the packing department, which turned out to be huge fun. 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:46.160 I was surrounded by lots of Iranian students. 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:59.759 We would keep ourselves amused by course there's a lot of snobbery involved at Harrod's So a dish the size of a thumb would come down and they'd say they want it delivered by the van, you know. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.000 It was just for the prestige of the green van pulling up outside the front door. 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:09.599 So on our last day, we got one of these, like a tiny little, tiny, tiny bowl. 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:22.480 So we got the biggest export crate we could find, filled it with sort of straw and bubble wrap, and put this tiny bowl in the middle with a little compliment slip, and then filled it with more straw and bubble wrap. 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:26.160 And the first day of the sale, I remember, it was an interesting education in life. 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:32.960 The first day of the sale, as I walked out, I was handed a lovely letter from the Harrods management. 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:39.680 You know, thank you so much for Conjure helping to make the first day of the Harrods Christmas Sale such a resounding success. 00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:41.440 And I thought, well, isn't that nice? 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:44.160 What a nice piece of human interaction. 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:48.000 And then I moved forward about three steps and this guy frisked me. 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:50.160 In case I was nicking stuff. 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:53.920 And I just thought that's sort of quite instructive, you know. 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:54.319 Yeah. 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:57.920 That's sort of the reality of the commercial world, you know. 00:22:58.160 --> 00:22:59.440 But no, I had a great time now. 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:00.319 It's extraordinary. 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:10.240 Underneath Tower, as you probably saw it, is that extraordinary city of tunnels and and they've got names like you know, I remember being allowed to drive, you've got these little vehicles. 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:11.839 Oh, I didn't know about the vehicles. 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:12.559 Oh, yeah. 00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:18.319 I crashed mine into a confectioner cage, and they wouldn't let me drive one anymore. 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:26.240 The comedian and author Shapi Korsandi had a rather different start to her life. 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:31.839 Her family fled Iran after the Islamic Revolution in 1979. 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:37.839 And then oddly, she decided to become a stand-up comedian. 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:40.079 I felt like an outsider who wouldn't. 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.319 I had a lot of confusion as a kid. 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:44.079 Like my home life was so different. 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.839 Like my dad was this big famous poet outside of school. 00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:50.799 I was like a Nepo baby but without portfolio. 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:54.240 And then in school, I was like, you know, little brown kid. 00:23:54.400 --> 00:24:02.720 And then I watched Saturday Night Live, Ben Elton, Ritmail, and I'd loved like any kind of comedy on tele. 00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:09.759 Didn't really get the jokes of the old sort of more traditional comics, but the fact they were standing on a stage, I absolutely love Billy Connolly. 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:11.440 I think he was probably my first love. 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:20.319 But Saturday Night Live, that lot, because they were young, because they spoke in my language. 00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:25.119 I desperately wanted to be part of that world that they lived in. 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:27.920 And I imagine it was the same with punk. 00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:30.240 Because comedy's not punk now. 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.359 It's not underground like it was back in the 80s. 00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:36.240 I mean, it can't be because it's become so mainstream. 00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:40.559 And back then you could be poor and live in London. 00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:44.000 Um, there were squats to live in, there was housing benefit. 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:47.359 So you've got a lot of broken souls on the comedy circuit, which I love. 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:55.759 But now people are so much more together, the young comics that I've met, and they're brilliant, but they're a different texture. 00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:01.200 But I've got to say, that thing about being a woman, it was so hard. 00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:05.359 But at the time, I didn't think about it, I just plowed on. 00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:19.359 And she's plowed on to appearances on just about every panel show, touring here and there, writing novels, and more recently, training to be a psychotherapist. 00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:29.279 But before we move on, I couldn't help but ask her about Iran and what she felt about what was going on there. 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:32.400 And she started by telling me a quick story. 00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:34.559 It was 15 years ago. 00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:43.039 My dad said, uh, Reza Panavi is in London and he's invited me to have a cup of tea at the Dorchester. 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:44.079 Would you like to come? 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:45.359 I was like, Yes, I do. 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:47.440 And can I bring my

baby boy? 00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:48.480 And he went, Yeah. 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:49.920 So we went along to meet him. 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.079 And you know, my dad's the old foe. 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:56.160 And they met and he got my son a hot chocolate. 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:01.039 And my dad and he chatted, and my dad said, Why have you, you know, summoned me? 00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:02.880 And he goes, Look, I just want to talk. 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:05.119 I want to talk to people from all walks. 00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:07.279 I want to let bygones be bygones. 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:12.319 And when the time comes and we are able to go back to Iran, I want us to be unified. 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:16.720 And then as we left, he said to my dad, You see, we can be friends. 00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:19.839 And my dad said, Of course we can, until you're in power. 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:21.920 And then we'll be Tom and Jerry again. 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:23.200 And that's what I want. 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:29.519 I want a leader in Iran that if you criticize them, you won't get hanged. 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:40.160 If the name didn't register, by the way, Reza Palabi is the son of the late Shah, who something might yet take over. 00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:43.039 And now for a bit of a gear change. 00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:46.000 This is what happens when you make compilations. 00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:56.319 The next clip is of Yitzka Kramer, who is a Dutch anthropologist who originally trained as an ethnographer. 00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.880 She learns from tribes and communities across the world. 00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:10.720 And we talked a little bit about the gulf between the so-called developed countries and the developing world. 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:16.799 About a year ago, one and a half years ago, I was with the Mentawai in Indonesia. 00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:22.960 I was there because we were shooting a documentary about the stories behind traditional tattoos. 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:25.839 So tattoos is a very old way. 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:32.799 I mean, it's the oldest sign language which we put on our skins, and you see it across the world, across centuries. 00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:33.839 Everyone has it. 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:35.680 And there's different views on it. 00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:42.960 We went to the Mentorway to see how they live and how they use tattoos to connect them to the world. 00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:51.440 And what I became aware of is the impact my ancestors had on that corner of the world. 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:56.799 Meaning that the Dutch came there and they said, Well, it's good, let's trade. 00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:01.279 And by the way, let's bring our gods to you. 00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:04.000 And by the way, why do you tattoo yourself? 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:05.119 That's barbaric. 00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:09.920 And of course, you can still have your tattoos, but then you cannot go to school. 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:16.960 So there's this very subtle and very harsh way of oppressing others and taking away identities. 00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:21.920 And I think that's just in this case, a family saying, Well, we don't want that. 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:39.359 So they fled into the jungle, and I visited their grandchildren, so to speak, to see how they deal with this changing world and how can you sustain your belief system when the world is challenging it and it's countering it and it's oppressing you. 00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:42.799 I'll let you into a little secret, dear listener. 00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:48.160 I have huge trouble pronouncing anything with two O's in it. 00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.640 And I live problematically next door to a tattoo parlour. 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:58.640 And every time I say it, it sounds to me like that military parade they do every year in Edinburgh. 00:28:58.799 --> 00:28:59.920 Anyway, moving on. 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.359 Or moving back, in fact, to Leo Johnson. 00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:10.640 Leo is a visiting fellow at Oxford Smith School of Enterprise and Environment. 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:24.960 And he is studying with the aid of a great deal of new data why it is that we're not doing very much about climate change. 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:33.359 The stuff that looks really promising is actually the stuff that's not around kind of the biology of fear. 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:40.720 That Greta Thunberg line, I think it was at Davos, where she says, I want you to be afraid, I want you to panic, and then I want you to act. 00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:45.279 You have to do like the opposite of what Greta is suggesting. 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:47.359 Because that just creates the stress response. 00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:52.160 What works is the people who actually work with kind of the biology of hope. 00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:58.000 And the stuff that really motivates people to act is if they can see three things. 00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:06.960 If first of all they can see a vision of an outcome, and by vision, it's not some sort of corporate slogan, it's something they can actually see and smell and imagine. 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:13.440 Then the second is that vision has got to have a reason, a rationale, a case that motivates people. 00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:14.480 They've got to care about it. 00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:16.559 And it's not a business case, it's an emotional business case. 00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:23.200 IKEA has this line of the difference between your better and and they're better, it's got to relate to their better, what they actually care about. 00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:27.119 And the whole sustainability has totally got it wrong because it's never been framed as their better. 00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:31.440 It's always been a sort of a northern first world, this is our better, we're going to be low government. 00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:34.000 It's not about that if you want to convince people at scale. 00:30:34.079

--> 00:30:35.359 They will have their own individual better. 00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:42.720 So there's the vision, there's the emotional business case, and then the last thing is the credible pathway to get there. 00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:54.079 Which brings us back to this thing of like, how do you sit down with people, how do you listen, how do you understand what really makes sense to them, what's the alignment between what you care about and what they care about. 00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:56.480 And then you can get that group together. 00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:58.720 You've got a coalition that can actually get something done. 00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:04.480 My own favourite environmentalist is a chap called Tim Smith. 00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:20.960 Tim actually started off as a record producer, but you will know him as co-founder of the Eden Project in Cornwall, which is also in China, by the way, and it's on its way in Morecambe and Dundee. 00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:31.039 One of the things that came out in conversation with Tim is that he accepts every third invitation to do something. 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:44.960 So when I sent you off to the far-flung places to make speeches in front of corporate types who had absolutely nothing to do with your world, as it were. 00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:52.000 Absolutely. 00:31:52.160 --> 00:32:01.759 In fact, over the last twenty years, I would say, almost every major life-changing event has come from the third meeting. 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:03.839 And I've done some crazy stuff. 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:14.720 I've judged dog shows, I've opened old people's homes, I've been at the West of England Ballroom Dancing Championships, and it's all the things which I would have ordinarily refused to do. 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.440 And each one yields something peculiar. 00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:23.839 I went to speak in a Nissana near Taunton, and I was told there would only be 50 people and a dog there. 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:29.039 But I went because it was a third invitation, and blown me down. 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:38.720 Three months later I was in Plymouth addressing the European Commissioners trying to seek money for the Eden project, and it was quite obvious we weren't going to get it. 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:42.799 Suddenly this old guy gets up and he says, My name's Humphrey Templey. 00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:51.920 I'm chairman of Somerset County Council, and I happen to be in an Issana near Taunton three months ago, and I saw this man speaking. 00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:57.759 And it's quite obvious he has the wider West Country in his interest than just the narrow confines of Cornwall. 00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:08.720 And I've spoken to my colleagues on the council board who are behind me here, and we've all agreed that we in Somerset will drop one of our projects if the rest of you will also drop one each. 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:12.400 So that speech was worth twelve point seven million quid. 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:16.079 And to think of the paltry commission I earned from it. 00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:19.039 Anyway, time for another gear change. 00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:25.759 John Humphreys left school at 15 to become a Cub reporter. 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:32.960 He was actually the first reporter on the scene at the dreadful disaster in Abavan. 00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:39.119 He became a BBC TV US correspondent covering Watergate. 00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:47.039 But most famously, he did a 30-year stint as the main anchor on the Today program. 00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:57.519 He's interviewed, I think he said, a total of eight prime ministers, and he's written a slew of books, including one that caught my interest. 00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:01.519 It's called In God We Doubt. 00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:04.000 And I did believe in God. 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:05.839 Then I started to have doubts. 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:30.239 Then I went to Abervan on a day in 1966 and watched many, many, many mothers standing watching as their husbands dug for the bodies of their children who had been crushed when a massive, massive mountain of waste slid down onto their school and crushed it. 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:32.960 And I thought, oh no, God is merciful, right? 00:34:33.039 --> 00:35:14.079 What of those women who are suffering the greatest agony it is possible to imagine a mother suffering, knowing that the most important person in her life, her the little daughter, the little son, is buried underneath that mountain of filth, while their husbands, the children's fathers, who had heard the tip sliding down the mountainside, and were at the coal face digging for coal at the time, and they had come up to the top, of course, as soon as they heard it, they knew what had happened, and there they were when I got there first reported there. 00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:16.320 They were digging. 00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:27.760 They couldn't use machinery because that would crush whatever the remained of the waste down into the school, and there were still some children who survived. 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:30.480 So they couldn't do that, so they had to dig by hand. 00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:34.400 It was the most uh harrowing aside to imagine. 00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:35.840 Uh their faces were black. 00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:41.280 Of course they had just come up from literally taking killed, but not quite black. 00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:44.480 There was a streak of white down their cheeks, tears. 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:50.320 They were digging for their own children, knowing the chances were that they would find dead children. 00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:51.840 It was torture. 00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:59.280 It was the most hellish thing that can happen to a mother and father, the ultimate horror. 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:00.960 So thanks God. 00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:03.440 Yeah, it's uh what was that meant? 00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:05.039 You're all powerful, right? 00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:06.880 Almighty,

almighty God. 00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:10.480 And you're in kind of control with everything? 00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:21.519 And did those children who were crushed to death, did they had they done anything to displease you or broken any commandments that they should have obeyed, or come on. 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:24.239 A God of mercy, we are told by the church. 00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:26.800 We are told to believe in a God of mercy. 00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:31.519 What mercy did God show to us those children and their mothers and fathers? 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:39.760 You can tell from the sound of John's voice how much the memory of Abba Van still affects him. 00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:47.440 Now, my next guest or the next clip I'm gonna play you is Clark Carlyle. 00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:55.039 If you're not familiar with his name, he was a very, very successful footballer. 00:36:55.360 --> 00:37:06.079 He went on to become the leader of the players' union, and these days he is chair of the mental health charity Mind. 00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:10.800 We talk about mental health every now and then on Just Between Us. 00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:13.039 And Clark's story. 00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.639 Well, it's more harrowing than most. 00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:29.599 My first attempt on my whole life was in 2001, where I had a career threatening, according to the surgeon, career ending injury when I'd just broken into the England under 21s. 00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:39.920 And in that moment, as a young man, where football was my sole identity and the reason for anything positive in my life, I believed that without football I was nothing. 00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:42.639 And so I did attempt to take my own life. 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:55.119 Having survived, and then that being pushed under the carpet and me told not to do that again and don't tell anyone about it, it became my own naughty, dirty little secret. 00:37:55.360 --> 00:37:59.360 Here's what is often unacknowledged in this conversation. 00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:06.079 Once you've attempted to take your own life, it's no longer unthinkable. 00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:10.880 It's now part of the parameters of my experience. 00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:17.519 Clark went on to make several attempts to take his own life. 00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:22.239 And he went through addictions of one kind or another. 00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:33.519 So it's all the more remarkable that he's turned himself around and leads the nation's biggest mental health charity. 00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:40.559 One of the things Clark spends a lot of time campaigning about these days is addiction. 00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:43.280 And in particular, gambling. 00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:51.679 Gambling, for the majority of my experience, in earlier days at least, it was geographically situated, which meant time constraints. 00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:54.400 Now, the world's casinos are right here. 00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:58.320 It's a predatory industry, it is everywhere,

you know. 00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:06.079 Ray Winston, Danny Dyer, whoever it is, everyone is in there every second to highlight how predatory it is. 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:12.719 Because the conversation and the debate has been around sports betting for you know the last five, six, seven, eight years. 00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:16.239 All the operators have done is gone, okay, you discussed that. 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:27.440 We're just going to focus on the other 50% of the population, developed their bingo and social websites and started to promote, oh, it's a social engagement community. 00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:29.519 Come and chat with other women. 00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:40.800 Even more horrific was that there were two operators who had an ad campaign that specifically targeted new young stay-at-home mums. 00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:47.920 The biggest growth sector in gambling was women aged between 28 and 37. 00:39:48.159 --> 00:40:02.159 And that's because they've been targeted by the social side, the bingo ones, funneled through to instant wins and then the slot machines, which are the most addictive engagement on the apps, and designedly so. 00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:05.280 People aren't gambling for that life-changing win anymore. 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:12.559 People are gambling, like betting five, ten pounds to win a hundred pounds so they can pay the bills at the end of the week or month. 00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:20.239 The most dangerous point with gambling is where it goes from it'd be nice to win, but all of a sudden now I need to win. 00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:23.760 That has to be regulated in some way. 00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:26.880 I couldn't agree more. 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:32.159 Now I think it's time for a different kind of escapism. 00:40:32.559 --> 00:40:42.239 Alexander McCall Smith has sold over twenty eight million books in forty six languages. 00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:56.960 He's best known as creator of the number one ladies' detective agency, and of course we talk about those wonderful Botswana inventions, Mars Romotswe, Makutsi, and Potaquani. 00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:04.559 But my own favourite McCall Smith series is 44 Scotland Street. 00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:10.559 A very genteel affair, and I promise you it will make you chuckle. 00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:13.440 There's one particular character, Bruce. 00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:18.159 Bruce stares at himself in the mirror with admiration, by the way. 00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:23.440 And Bruce deserves every misfortune that comes his way. 00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:39.599 Bruce is approached by a television company that wants to do a programme about people who've had dramatic things happen to them, and they've heard about his being struck by lightning, and they say, We want to tell your story in this sort of reality television series that we're doing. 00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:45.440 And he says that's great because he's an ect narcissist and likes the idea of being on television. 00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:54.400 So they say we'll recreate that situation where you're walking down Dundas Street in Edinburgh, and we'll show the viewer what happens. 00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:59.840 So he says that's fine, and he starts to do it, and he's struck by lightning again. 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:07.199 And thereby disproving the adage that lightning doesn't strike in the same place twice. 00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:12.400 You can get away with that sort of thing, I think, in this sort of serial novel. 00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:22.320 So I do don't know, not quite uh lapse into magical realism, but I do have things which really are a bit unlikely. 00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:29.280 So Bertie, for example, as you say, Bertie's been seven for eight years or something like that, and so on. 00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:32.000 So there's a certain element of fantasy in it. 00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:35.440 So I have odd things coming in from left field. 00:42:35.599 --> 00:43:00.000 For example, there's uh into Big Lou's Cafe comes the committee regularly of the Association of Scottish nudists, and they go and they're they're having constant problems because they're arguing with the Glasgow branch of the association, and they're also very cross with the committee for taking them on their summer outing to Glen Etiff at the height of the midge season, that sort of thing. 00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:04.559 I heartily recommend 44 Scotland Street, dear listener. 00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:08.159 I think it will make you chuckle too. 00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:16.480 Now, one of the things that McCall Smith will probably never worry about is social media. 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:22.639 And in particular, the social media phenomenon of the influencer. 00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:28.320 But unsurprisingly, uh Steve Allen has some pretty pungent views on the subject. 00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:31.679 I didn't realise what they did until a few years back. 00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:38.480 And there was one girl and she's on YouTube and she's in a restaurant, and she's ordered a chicken Caesar. 00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:42.159 So they bring the chicken Caesar and they put it in front of it. 00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:43.519 She goes, And what's that? 00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:45.599 And the waiter goes, It's what you ordered. 00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:46.559 It's chicken Caesar. 00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:48.880 She goes, I'm vegetarian. 00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:52.400 And he goes, You ordered chicken Caesar. 00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:55.039 He said, If you just wanted Caesar, why don't you just order Caesar? 00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:56.880 She said, I'm an influencer. 00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:02.079 And he said, and she goes, Well, you're supposed to know that I'm vegetarian. 00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:09.599 And but the trouble is what you've got to be careful of is if you've got a restaurant, she then goes online to her 200,000 people and goes, I was in this restaurant the other day. 00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:11.199 You don't ever go there, it's

vile. 00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:16.719 The management are rude, they didn't know how to serve my food, and before you know where you are, you're having to pander to these people. 00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:20.239 And they do walk into restaurants and go, the six of us will be eating now. 00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:24.880 I don't know if my next guest is troubled by influencers. 00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:28.320 But I had trouble when I came to introduce him. 00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:32.639 This feels quite strange. 00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:33.920 Anyway, let's go, Fred. 00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:41.679 I'm Jeremy Lee, and welcome to Just Between Us with my guest this week, Jeremy Lee. 00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:43.679 How do you do, Jeremy? 00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:45.519 How do you do, Jeremy? 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:46.320 Rather. 00:44:47.599 --> 00:45:01.599 I should say, just by way of a one-line introduction, Chef proprietor at Quovardis, best-selling cookery writer, Soho Institution, Jeremy Lee. 00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:06.000 It really was a pleasure to meet Jeremy for the first time. 00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.800 We talked about all aspects of running a restaurant. 00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:16.320 How I briefly worked for the Roo brothers, how he coped with COVID. 00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:23.039 Talk to me about how you break down the car, how you arrive at the cost of a dish. 00:45:23.360 --> 00:45:32.320 Well, this is really interesting, because when I first started, all a head chef had to do was write a menu and submit it to be typed up. 00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:37.199 They might have to put the prices on it, but that was usually the manager of the front of the house did it. 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:41.840 And you know, if you were asked for a costing or recipe, you just laughed and moved on. 00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:42.480 You know. 00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:43.920 That was it. 00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:50.159 No, gosh, over 40, 50 years, no, nothing has not costed. 00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:52.159 And every single penny matters. 00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:59.199 Um, because I think, as a lot of people find their cost, it was pointless being a busy fool and not doing the homework. 00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:00.159 And why wouldn't you? 00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:09.199 It was proved absolutely that a lot of cooks were promoted on their ability to cook, but hadn't ever been taught how to manage. 00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:14.159 And the reason we were in kitchens and not at a desk is that we didn't like that structure. 00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:15.360 We weren't managers. 00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:22.880 A lot was learned on the hoof and on doing crazy hours, on brilliantly that slowly but surely going away. 00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:27.039 And the old guard, well, you know, nature takes its course. 00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:34.079 And the Me Too thing has been amazing for calming kitchens down, zero tolerance policies, absolutely. 00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:40.079 And wanting to now keep your staff, because famously pre-COVID, the turnovers were amazing. 00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:43.199 I thought we're just doing a few months here, a few months there, going on. 00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:48.960 I'm putting that on a CV like a badge they'd done in my time, you know, would have been a four-year stint. 00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:51.519 And so that's all being eradicated. 00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.760 That's a fascinating glimpse into the world of kitchens. 00:46:56.400 --> 00:47:05.360 Now, there's one question I often ask my guests, especially if they're of a certain age. 00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:15.519 What's your advice now in this state of the world, state of the country at the moment, for young people? 00:47:16.639 --> 00:47:19.840 I don't want to give advice to young people because they're really smart. 00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:22.639 I want to give advice to anybody over the age of 35. 00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:34.880 I hope you lose a year of your life every time you talk to a young person with that dystopian, drooling voice of yours about how we're going to hell in a hand cart. 00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:38.800 There has never been a more exciting time to be alive than now. 00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:49.920 Believe me, the advances in science, the advances in society, are actually monumental, but they're just beneath the surface before the media has finally caught onto it. 00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:54.800 And a part of the problem is old people thinking the past was a better place. 00:47:55.039 --> 00:47:56.719 It ruddy well wasn't. 00:47:56.880 --> 00:48:01.519 It's actually about to become popping with excitement. 00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:06.079 When I was young, I went to see a musical called Hair. 00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:31.440 The theme tune was The Age of Aquarius, and the chorus of that song was We Are Stardust, which was actually a ripoff of uh Carl Sagan and his wife in the book Cosmos had talked about one day I hope that people will discover that all life is star dust, made from stardust. 00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:42.000 Just think in the last 30 years alone, science has shown us the complexity of the human body, the microbial structure of our insides. 00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:51.360 It's also shown us the sophistication of the microbial structure of soils, and amazingly is showing us that they're all interrelated. 00:48:51.679 --> 00:48:53.280 Doesn't that excite you? 00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:58.960 That maybe the next generation of young people will actually have a god worth worshipping. 00:48:59.599 --> 00:49:01.599 I love Tim Smith. 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:09.920 And in particular, I love how he can sound so venomous when he's talking so optimistically about the future. 00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:14.960 Now I want to wrap up with two more little clips. 00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:25.199 Firstly, Shappy Corsandy talking about what might have been different had she not launched into comedy. 00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:37.280 I think I would have been a massive fan of stand-up comedy,

but perhaps done something else that really nourished my soul, but didn't involve all the travelling, all the booze. 00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:40.800 You say that, but it would have been such a loss to the world of comedy. 00:49:41.119 --> 00:49:41.679 You don't know that. 00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:44.559 I might have found a cure for hay fever. 00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:45.119 What? 00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:47.119 Do you know what given a choice? 00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:48.320 That would have been time better spent. 00:49:48.400 --> 00:49:49.360 I think. 00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:51.119 Yeah, no, no, I'm with you completely. 00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:57.440 But I have to give the last word to my wonderful aunt Doris. 00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:01.920 Here she is, talking about her BFF. 00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:04.559 So, do you have a best friend in the army? 00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:05.840 What was her name? 00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:08.400 Well, her real name was Gladys. 00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:12.800 And we altered it because I didn't like my real name of Doris. 00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:15.360 So we altered ourselves. 00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:18.639 She was gay, and I was Nicky. 00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:24.639 And to the end of our army career, both of us were gay and Nicky. 00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:26.880 We used to go out together. 00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:29.679 We were stationed at Acton at the time. 00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:30.400 Right. 00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:32.400 We used to get a lift. 00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:33.760 Hitchhike. 00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:34.800 Did you? 00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:38.079 In uniform or not? 00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:39.679 In uniform. 00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:41.440 We hitchhikes one. 00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:46.880 We were on the back of a hay cart going into the West End. 00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:52.719 We sat, we know the horse in front and the big cart behind our open cart. 00:50:52.880 --> 00:51:01.840 And we sat on this cart, not very comfortably, and a lovely car drove up beside us and it stopped. 00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:11.840 And the driver got out and he said, Sir, so and so, I don't know his name, would like to give you two girls a lift. 00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:17.440 So we arrived in the West End in Rolls Voice instead of the hay car. 00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:21.679 It just shows these little encounters can change everything. 00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:22.480 Yeah. 00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:24.480 So you get into the West End. 00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:26.719 Where's your first port of call? 00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:27.599 Where do you make for? 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:29.280 So the Regent Palace. 00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:41.440 The two of us used to walk into the bar, and it was the time when all the Americans were there, and gay was very attractive and attracted all the Americans, so we got lots of free drinks. 00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:44.559 So were you, let's not make any mistake about it. 00:51:44.719 --> 00:51:52.639 So two very good-looking women walk into a bar full of Americans with plenty of money in their pockets to buy you drinks. 00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:55.199 They had no money in our pockets. 00:51:55.519 --> 00:51:58.239 Otherwise they could have ordered a train up there. 00:51:58.800 --> 00:51:59.840 There's a point. 00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:05.760 It was such a joy recording that episode with Doris. 00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:11.840 And if you haven't already listened to my aunt, you really should do now. 00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:15.920 I can't believe you've got anything more important to do, to be honest. 00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:17.599 Anyway, that's it. 00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:19.039 We're wrapping there. 00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:21.440 All I need to do is thank you for listening. 00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:27.199 To tell you that we'll be back in some form or another in 2027. 00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:34.079 And in the meantime, whatever you hear on this podcast, remember, it's just between us. 00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:36.800 And whoever you want to tell, obviously. 00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:37.599 Have fun. 00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:40.480 Happy Chr can I say happy Christmas? 00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:41.760 No.