บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Bravo Restraining Orders, Private Investigators, and Escaping a MLM

people to 72 00:04:25.829 --> 00:04:29.850 come and poses someone else to get information. I think 73 00:04:29.889 --> 00:04:32.050 the whole story is so bizarre, but I think they're 74 00:04:32.069 --> 00:04:36.149 pretty bizarre people because wouldn't this piss off Teresa that 75 00:04:36.209 --> 00:04:41.439 he's obsessed with his, um, fiance or does he tell Teresa, well, 76 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:43.420 this woman's trying to take me down by saying I'm 77 00:04:43.459 --> 00:04:46.620 a narcissist. So I need to get more information about 78 00:04:47.019 --> 00:04:51.029 maybe she would reveal something that we could use against her. Um, 79 00:04:51.750 --> 00:04:54.230 I don't know. I don't think that would bode well 80 00:04:54.269 --> 00:04:58.810 that my husband was still obsessed with his ex-fiance. Why 81 00:04:58.829 --> 00:05:01.709 wouldn't you just ignore it? That's very strange. It's a 82 00:05:01.750 --> 00:05:05.189 temporary restraining order. I'm sure he will fight the permanent. 83 00:05:06.269 --> 00:05:09.680 But that just came out yesterday, page six. Everybody's reporting 84 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:12.360 on it. But just a very bizarre thing. When I 85 00:05:12.420 --> 00:05:14.019 first read it, I was like, I don't know if 86 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:17.199 this is totally true. And then upon further investigation, I'm like, yeah, 87 00:05:17.259 --> 00:05:20.279 this sounds pretty true. Then I watched the reunion last 88 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:24.060 night and it's just gotten so ugly. And Louie is, 89 00:05:24.189 --> 00:05:27.069 the guys are getting ready. Louie's got his shirt off 90 00:05:27.970 --> 00:05:31.990 and his tattoos and he's like, I'm coming out there. Meanwhile, 91 00:05:32.050 --> 00:05:36.610 it gets revealed that Rachel, who is the new cast 92 00:05:36.649 --> 00:05:39.160 member and she's a stepmother and she adopted her son. 93 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:42.259 And even Dolores says, no, I knew her years ago 94 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:45.319 and she's been wanting to adopt her stepson, now her son, 95 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:49.069 for years because the mother is in prison and has 96 00:05:49.110 --> 00:05:54.170 no relationship with the 16-year-old son. She said on the reunion, 97 00:05:54.230 --> 00:06:00.709 she said it's her belief, and she acted pretty convincing 98 00:06:00.750 --> 00:06:06.300 of her belief, that Louie found, through investigators, found her 99 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:10.040 son's mother in the prison and had her get in 100 00:06:10.060 --> 00:06:12.300 touch with bloggers to get her story out to say, 101 00:06:12.420 --> 00:06:15.529 I'm not happy with this. I don't want this. But 102 00:06:15.730 --> 00:06:17.889 in fact, she never fought it. And that is why 103 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:21.240 the adoption went through. And I'm like, well, this is true. 104 00:06:21.339 --> 00:06:23.459 It's not only sad for Rachel. It's not only sad 105 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:26.379 for the boy. But

it's sad for the fucked up 106 00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:30.319 mother that's obviously struggled in life. She's in prison. She 107 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:33.019 has no relationship with her son. I mean, you know, 108 00:06:34.060 --> 00:06:36.779 this is not good either for her. So that's cruel. 109 00:06:37.420 --> 00:06:42.480 Then Margaret says, he contacted one of my kids. Somebody 110 00:06:42.519 --> 00:06:45.290 contacted one of my kids. and said, I'm the guy 111 00:06:45.329 --> 00:06:48.110 on the other line. He said, whoever this was, but 112 00:06:48.129 --> 00:06:50.910 we believe it's Louie allegedly, said, I'm the guy you 113 00:06:50.930 --> 00:06:53.439 have to worry about. So it was the phone number. 114 00:06:53.449 --> 00:06:56.180 They tracked the phone number and the phone number went 115 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.939 to Louie. And her kid is very private, never been 116 00:06:59.959 --> 00:07:01.459 on the show, doesn't want to be on the show. 117 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:04.839 So this was a problem. And I was thinking, well, 118 00:07:04.860 --> 00:07:06.560 what would be the point of that? I guess the 119 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:10.019 point would be that then Margaret being a protective mother 120 00:07:10.060 --> 00:07:11.899 would be would say, you know what, maybe I need 121 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:15.180 to get off the show. This is too scary. My 122 00:07:15.259 --> 00:07:17.779 kid is now mad at me because he's never wanted 123 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:20.189 this life. I've worked really hard to protect him, and, 124 00:07:20.610 --> 00:07:23.730 you know, now what am I going to do? So 125 00:07:24.290 --> 00:07:29.189 all so strange. Meanwhile, Teresa's just like, what? Who? Acting's 126 00:07:29.250 --> 00:07:32.300 really bad. She and Melissa, of course, get into it. 127 00:07:32.329 --> 00:07:36.009 She accuses Melissa and Joe, her brother, of hanging out 128 00:07:36.069 --> 00:07:40.860 with Joe Giudice's, her brother, ex-husband who went to prison 129 00:07:40.899 --> 00:07:43.180 four years. She went to prison for one. She said, 130 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:47.199 I believe you were part of the FBI investigating us 131 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:52.110 because you hung out with Joe Giudice's ex-partner who eventually, 132 00:07:52.750 --> 00:07:55.370 they believe, turned him in. And Melissa was really good. 133 00:07:55.410 --> 00:07:57.509 She's like, no, you did the crime. I had nothing 134 00:07:57.550 --> 00:08:00.370 to do with it. Then she said, well, Jacqueline, who 135 00:08:00.410 --> 00:08:04.680 was a former housewife on the show, Jacqueline told me 136 00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:07.310 when we met up in Vegas that that it was 137 00:08:07.370 --> 00:08:08.709 you who did it. She's like, I haven't talked to 138 00:08:08.730 --> 00:08:10.550 Jacqueline in a year, but I will give you this. 139 00:08:11.230 --> 00:08:14.850 She has a text message that Jacqueline sent to this 140 00:08:15.129 --> 00:08:18.250 other

cast member, Jackie, who is barely on the show, 141 00:08:19.170 --> 00:08:22.709 and she came at the end. That's not important. Anyway, 142 00:08:22.730 --> 00:08:27.129 there's a text message from Jacqueline talking shit about Teresa, horrible, 143 00:08:27.209 --> 00:08:32.450 saying she's manipulative, but she's also dumb and calculating. And 144 00:08:32.690 --> 00:08:36.110 then she goes after Teresa's looks and her plastic surgery. 145 00:08:36.149 --> 00:08:40.230 And it's a horrible mean message. And Melissa's just reading it. 146 00:08:41.690 --> 00:08:44.929 I mean, so awkward. And then Dolores is like, ooh, 147 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.320 this isn't going to be good for you, Melissa. You 148 00:08:47.340 --> 00:08:51.500 better sleep with one eye open. I'm like, what is this, like, loyalty, 149 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:54.240 mafiosa thing? Because that was the other thing when Teresa 150 00:08:54.259 --> 00:08:57.279 married Louis. At the wedding, his whole family is like, 151 00:08:57.299 --> 00:09:02.279 you're loyal, you're loyal. And meanwhile, his sister who married 152 00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:04.539 them is an eye doctor, but now she's got this 153 00:09:04.779 --> 00:09:08.399 app that he co-founded called Forgivity that's all about forgiving. 154 00:09:08.419 --> 00:09:13.220 I mean, the hypocrisy of it all, which nobody's going 155 00:09:13.259 --> 00:09:16.580 to get this app or whatever, but it's like, you know, 156 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:20.980 they act like he's all spiritual and he does this warrior, 157 00:09:21.340 --> 00:09:25.299 you know, male, I don't know, be a better man 158 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:28.240 kind of a situation, go to these things in Laguna 159 00:09:28.259 --> 00:09:31.590 with a bunch of guys that are sunburned. And, you know, 160 00:09:32.389 --> 00:09:34.470 this whole thing when he sent the video to that, 161 00:09:34.669 --> 00:09:36.750 who I assume is this woman, Vanessa. I know this 162 00:09:36.809 --> 00:09:41.919 is very convoluted, but it is like really crazy because 163 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:47.580 you realize, I think this is crazy behavior because it's 164 00:09:47.620 --> 00:09:50.320 very hard to even find the motivation. And that's why 165 00:09:50.379 --> 00:09:52.379 I'm like, wait, is this really true? What would be 166 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:56.970 the motivation behind all of this? And I think the result, 167 00:09:57.009 --> 00:09:58.870 we still have one episode left, but I think the 168 00:09:58.909 --> 00:10:01.320 result is going to be that to is going to 169 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:06.679 be put on pause. I really do because this is 170 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:11.110 really dark and I don't know how they're going to 171 00:10:11.190 --> 00:10:14.809 justify it. And because she's so loyal, I think she's 172 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:19.480 going to believe everything he says. And now they're in 173 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:25.519 this so deep. Meanwhile, the Danielle girl, she's like, was 174 00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:27.409 I set up? I don't know. There's so much to it. 175 00:10:28.580 --> 00:10:32.210 But this is the really juicy stuff about it. And 176 00:10:32.970 --> 00:10:38.230 just really, oh my God, it's like crazy. Anyway, let's 177 00:10:38.289 --> 00:10:40.169 move on to something else. I thought this was kind 178 00:10:40.190 --> 00:10:44.110 of interesting. Pete Davidson adopted a cute dog and he 179 00:10:44.149 --> 00:10:48.309 was seen leaving a The place where he bought the dog. 180 00:10:49.070 --> 00:10:53.299 Peter went on and made a statement saying, I wish 181 00:10:53.340 --> 00:10:57.879 he would have adopted and not shopped. And he went 182 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:00.590 and left a voicemail for Peter, for the woman that 183 00:11:00.629 --> 00:11:03.549 said it, and was like, listen, why don't you do 184 00:11:03.590 --> 00:11:06.490 a little research before you put it out there? I'm 185 00:11:07.110 --> 00:11:10.370 very allergic to dogs except for this particular breed. So 186 00:11:10.509 --> 00:11:13.809 I do need to buy this breed. And the reason 187 00:11:13.850 --> 00:11:16.490 we got this dog is because my mom's dog died 188 00:11:16.909 --> 00:11:19.490 just last week and the dog was only two. So 189 00:11:19.509 --> 00:11:21.690 we were very sad and wanted to get another dog. 190 00:11:22.629 --> 00:11:24.529 And the comments are pretty great because I've always thought 191 00:11:24.549 --> 00:11:28.460 about this too. I know people say, no, you should 192 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:31.860 always adopt a dog. My dog Raven was adopted. My 193 00:11:31.899 --> 00:11:35.240 cat was adopted. They were older pets, however they were 194 00:11:36.299 --> 00:11:38.139 It is a pure breed, but it needed a home. 195 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:42.679 And because my dog Raven was seven when we got 196 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:45.490 her during COVID because she was a breeder dog and 197 00:11:45.529 --> 00:11:47.649 she was too old to have babies anymore. And so 198 00:11:47.669 --> 00:11:49.710 they didn't really have any use for her. And we 199 00:11:49.730 --> 00:11:52.490 went and adopted her and now she's having her best life. But, 200 00:11:54.289 --> 00:11:56.309 you know, it was kind of interesting that he called 201 00:11:56.330 --> 00:11:58.289 them out. And I thought that was pretty good. And 202 00:11:58.309 --> 00:12:01.759 then also it's true. I mean, these dogs are born. 203 00:12:02.220 --> 00:12:05.139 I mean, they are born. So someone needs to take them. 204 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:09.100 But I get it. It's a huge argument. Don't go 205 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:12.980 get at me. But I just thought the fact that 206 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.820 they did say something false and he is really allergic, 207 00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:19.799 I thought this is probably one of the best things 208 00:12:19.860 --> 00:12:23.940 I think Big Davidson has ever done and cleared something 209 00:12:24.000

--> 00:12:28.639 up because it bothered him. So that was good. Harry 210 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:33.840 is going every day. They're suing the, I think it's 211 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:37.179 called the Mirror tabloid, And some of it is really 212 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:41.159 kind of funny that's coming out with Prince Harry. He's 213 00:12:41.220 --> 00:12:45.919 saying that they put it out there that he had mono, 214 00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:49.860 which is the kissing disease, and everyone was mean to 215 00:12:49.940 --> 00:12:52.759 him at his school when they wrote this article that 216 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.139 he had mono, and he did have mono, but it's 217 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:57.179 affected him for the rest of his life that he 218 00:12:57.220 --> 00:13:00.879 was teased about the mono. I mean, pretty funny. And 219 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:04.950 then he said it's because of this tabloid that he 220 00:13:05.419 --> 00:13:08.240 his relationship with Chelsea, who was the really pretty girl 221 00:13:08.259 --> 00:13:10.019 that he dated for like, I don't know, six or 222 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:14.139 seven years, blonde girl, that his relationship ended with her 223 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:17.379 because of the articles that they were written. And basically 224 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:20.500 he's saying, I believe my phones were tapped. And that's 225 00:13:20.539 --> 00:13:22.879 how they knew about the fights that we'd have and 226 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:25.580 about all this other stuff. They would always write the 227 00:13:25.620 --> 00:13:28.779 articles as very good sources or party goes, saw them 228 00:13:28.940 --> 00:13:33.940 arguing at a party. The story was that she thought 229 00:13:33.980 --> 00:13:36.340 he was flirting with other people, and that's why they argued. 230 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:39.830 Other people or other articles have said, and who knows 231 00:13:39.850 --> 00:13:42.169 where it's really coming from, if they really tapped their phones, 232 00:13:42.190 --> 00:13:44.309 which is horrible if they did, or if it really 233 00:13:44.429 --> 00:13:48.409 was insiders giving stories, or do these people just make 234 00:13:48.429 --> 00:13:51.029 this stuff up? I don't really know how it works, 235 00:13:51.090 --> 00:13:56.250 but he is going and suing them, and he is 236 00:13:56.309 --> 00:13:59.629 in court every day. Meanwhile, Spotify, who paid them $ 25 237 00:13:59.529 --> 00:14:04.429 million for their podcast, they just laid off $ 200 people. 238 00:14:04.509 --> 00:14:06.450 So the article that came out about that was kind 239 00:14:06.470 --> 00:14:09.090 of like, wonder if it's because they overpaid them, but 240 00:14:09.110 --> 00:14:11.230 they also paid Joe Rogan a lot. And they paid 241 00:14:11.269 --> 00:14:14.149 a lot of people, a lot of money, millions, millions 242 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:18.259 of dollars. So, um, and 200 people is, is just 243 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:20.559 a couple of

percentage of their, of their company, but 244 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:25.320 pretty interesting. And, um, let me see. Oh, and Drew Barrymore, 245 00:14:26.210 --> 00:14:30.710 this was pretty crazy. So she, Vulture wrote an article 246 00:14:30.750 --> 00:14:34.220 about her She did an interview with them, I believe, 247 00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:37.669 an interview with Vulture. And she said, you know, after 248 00:14:37.710 --> 00:14:43.789 talking to Jeanette McCurdy and Brooke Shields, who had difficult 249 00:14:43.830 --> 00:14:47.529 relationships with their mothers who are now both passed, she said, 250 00:14:47.769 --> 00:14:50.740 you know, I shouldn't say she wished her mom to 251 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:52.879 be dead, but the way they wrote the article and 252 00:14:52.899 --> 00:14:59.559 then the tabloids picked it up was basically that she's like, um, Yeah, 253 00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:02.659 I don't have the luxury of being able to grow 254 00:15:02.779 --> 00:15:05.620 and recover from this horrible relationship with my mom because 255 00:15:05.659 --> 00:15:08.470 she's still on this planet. And until my mom is 256 00:15:08.509 --> 00:15:10.470 no longer on this planet, I don't think I can 257 00:15:10.529 --> 00:15:14.429 recover from the traumatic relationship I had with my mom. 258 00:15:15.909 --> 00:15:17.730 The mom was a stage mom. She's this really pretty 259 00:15:17.769 --> 00:15:20.360 woman named Jade. She would take her to Studio 54. 260 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:23.179 She also put her in rehab from 13 to 15 261 00:15:23.179 --> 00:15:26.039 or something for two years. During that time at 14, 262 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:28.779 she got emancipated from her parents' And when she got 263 00:15:28.820 --> 00:15:30.659 out of rehab, she was like living on her own. 264 00:15:31.299 --> 00:15:33.940 And then she got married at like 19 to a bartender. 265 00:15:33.980 --> 00:15:35.559 Then she got married to Tom Green. Then she got 266 00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:37.179 married to the guy that she had her two kids with. 267 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:40.080 Then she's divorced. Now, of course, she's doing her talk show. 268 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.360 And then so Drew then went and was really pissed 269 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:48.110 and did a Instagram video where she's like so mad 270 00:15:48.139 --> 00:15:51.809 at the tabloids for taking the quote from the Vulture 271 00:15:51.830 --> 00:15:53.929 magazine and making a headline. No, I do not wish 272 00:15:53.990 --> 00:15:55.830 my mom to be dead. I would never wish that. 273 00:15:57.190 --> 00:16:01.230 But her explanation was not great either. If she was 274 00:16:01.289 --> 00:16:04.789 my friend, I would have said what you should say, Drew, 275 00:16:04.820 --> 00:16:06.940 and I'll do it in Drew's voice, is what she 276 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:12.600 should have said was, what I meant was, when you 277 00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:15.960 have a difficult relationship with a mother, as

I have, 278 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:18.879 and it's truly never going to be more than a 279 00:16:19.220 --> 00:16:23.730 happy birthday text and, you know, happy Mother's Day possibly, um, 280 00:16:25.789 --> 00:16:28.990 And they're in their 70s, as my mother is. I 281 00:16:29.070 --> 00:16:31.929 feel that until I can fully heal from this relationship, 282 00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:36.720 it most likely won't happen until she's passed. So while 283 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:40.019 she's living here, I still am traumatized by the fact 284 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:44.559 that it can't be repaired. But once time happens and 285 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:48.899 she is passed, I would assume I would be better equipped, 286 00:16:49.100 --> 00:16:52.820 like Brooke Shields and Jeanette McCurdy, to recover from it. 287 00:16:53.110 --> 00:16:55.740 That's what I think she was trying to say. Anyway, 288 00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:00.730 last little thing I'm going to talk about is Elliot Page, 289 00:17:01.250 --> 00:17:06.630 who is a man now, a transgender man. He was 290 00:17:06.710 --> 00:17:09.569 born as Ellen Page and was the star of the 291 00:17:09.650 --> 00:17:15.900 hit movie Juno about a pregnant teen. And Elliot Page, 292 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:19.200 who goes by Elliot Page now and goes by being 293 00:17:19.220 --> 00:17:22.000 a man now, has a book coming out called Page Boy. 294 00:17:22.299 --> 00:17:25.549 Great title of a book. And in the book, along 295 00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:29.660 with him saying that while he was the star of 296 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.240 Judah was a pregnant teen girl, he also had sex 297 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:35.559 with his co-star who was a female all the time. 298 00:17:35.579 --> 00:17:39.450 That was kind of juicy. But he also says one 299 00:17:39.490 --> 00:17:42.670 day in West Hollywood, he was walking into the Pink 300 00:17:42.710 --> 00:17:45.769 Dot convenience store in 2020. And this man came out 301 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:53.849 and said, you know, said slurs, homophobic slurs to him 302 00:17:53.950 --> 00:17:57.549 and used the F-A-G word or whatever. And it was horrible. 303 00:17:57.890 --> 00:17:59.710 And he had to run into the store to be safe. And, 304 00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:02.660 you know, that's an awful story, right? That's an awful story. 305 00:18:03.539 --> 00:18:06.700 But as someone who lives in LA, and I noticed 306 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:08.519 that an account I follow, which is about the most 307 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.599 depressing account ever, but needs to be out there, street 308 00:18:11.619 --> 00:18:14.440 people of LA, I noticed that they wrote the same 309 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:17.390 thing I was thinking was, yes, that is horrible. Does 310 00:18:17.430 --> 00:18:22.019 that happen? Yes. But people... We have insane people walking 311 00:18:22.099 --> 00:18:28.440 our streets freely and being insane, and nobody can do 312 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:31.900 anything about it. The police, mental health people, they can't. 313 00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:34.640 I don't know. They can't put them in a 5150. 314 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:36.680 I don't know what. But we have crazy people that 315 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:40.910 are scary, walking our streets all the time, yelling out awful, 316 00:18:40.990 --> 00:18:45.029 mean things. I mean, there's way worse things that have 317 00:18:45.049 --> 00:18:47.309 happened to people walking on streets. And this is horrible, 318 00:18:47.349 --> 00:18:52.279 but I'm thinking... It's probably just a crazy person. And 319 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:54.710 knowing that they're in West Hollywood, yeah, is that crazy 320 00:18:54.750 --> 00:18:58.069 person homophobic? Absolutely. Is that crazy person an awful person 321 00:18:58.089 --> 00:19:02.269 to scream those things? Absolutely. But my initial thought was 322 00:19:02.289 --> 00:19:07.819 just like, yeah, I don't think this person saw you 323 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:11.720 and was like, I'm angry. That's Elliot Page, who used 324 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:14.660 to be Ellen. That's my personal opinion. Some people think 325 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:17.109 it's a little Jussie Smollett. I don't. I think this 326 00:19:17.250 --> 00:19:20.670 thing happened to Elliot Page and he wrote it in 327 00:19:20.710 --> 00:19:24.579 his book. But being that it happened on the streets 328 00:19:24.630 --> 00:19:28.000 of LA and the way the story is told, the 329 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:33.519 person does seem absolutely insane. So this is a story 330 00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:36.099 that's getting picked up and the book is out and 331 00:19:36.140 --> 00:19:39.900 it seems like a pretty juicy book. So with that 332 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:42.380 all being said, I hope you guys see me at 333 00:19:42.940 --> 00:19:46.109 the Tempe Improv I will be there on June 16th 334 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:52.279 and 17th with Chris. Frangiola. And then of course, Chris 335 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:56.380 and Justin and I will be at my fabulous show 336 00:19:56.420 --> 00:20:00.740 in San Diego, June 24th. Everything is at heathermcdolland.net. Also 337 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:04.440 very exciting will be my Extra Juicy, which will come 338 00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:08.369 out Friday because that I will be covering. Everything I 339 00:20:08.509 --> 00:20:12.069 knew about Vanderpump rules that I was sworn to secrecy, 340 00:20:12.210 --> 00:20:15.509 we will have all now seen the final end of 341 00:20:15.529 --> 00:20:18.329 the reunion, and I've got to pick that apart and 342 00:20:19.430 --> 00:20:21.470 give all my thoughts. That's going to be on the 343 00:20:21.529 --> 00:20:24.910 Fridays Extra Juicy, where you can get it right here, 344 00:20:25.009 --> 00:20:27.829 and you can also get it on Patreon, which you 345 00:20:27.869 --> 00:20:31.750 go and get that at heathermcdonald.net. So make sure that 346 00:20:31.769 --> 00:20:32.309 you get that. 347 00:20:32.869

--> 00:20:33.130 All right. 348 00:20:33.730 --> 00:20:35.119 Now for my juicy interview, guys. 349 00:20:35.190 --> 00:20:36.650 Thanks. Itching. 350 00:20:37.180 --> 00:20:40.829 Burning soreness when you know it's thrush you want it 351 00:20:40.869 --> 00:20:44.589 gone treat the cause not just the symptoms with caniston 352 00:20:44.650 --> 00:20:48.789 combi ireland's number one thrush treatment brand caniston combi pastry 353 00:20:48.809 --> 00:20:51.849 and cream contain cotrimazole always read the label number one 354 00:20:51.869 --> 00:20:56.019 based on volume sales data To verify, contact info.ireland.bayor.com. 355 00:20:56.539 --> 00:20:59.779 I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week 356 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:02.880 on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who 357 00:21:02.900 --> 00:21:07.230 have faced tremendous setbacks, and yet somehow have found a 358 00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:09.789 way to turn them into their greatest strengths. 359 00:21:09.970 --> 00:21:12.849 Life is one long lesson of chaos. 360 00:21:12.990 --> 00:21:15.500 I'm heading to the Emmys, and I have police complaints 361 00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:16.119 filed against me. 362 00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:18.509 When your free will was about to be taken from you, 363 00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:19.400 what would you. 364 00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:21.740 Do if it was given back? Where did that need 365 00:21:21.819 --> 00:21:25.059 come from where you thought that you had to succeed 366 00:21:25.099 --> 00:21:27.000 in order to feel loved? He said, I have a 367 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:27.480 work dad. 368 00:21:27.500 --> 00:21:28.400 I need a home dad. 369 00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:29.420 What happens next? 370 00:21:29.660 --> 00:21:30.940 When I came in, he started crying. 371 00:21:31.299 --> 00:21:35.750 Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not 372 00:21:35.829 --> 00:21:38.470 those hard moments that they go through. It's about what 373 00:21:38.529 --> 00:21:39.289 happens next. 374 00:21:39.690 --> 00:21:40.750 I decided to risk it all. 375 00:21:40.930 --> 00:21:42.789 I realized how valuable every day was. 376 00:21:42.809 --> 00:21:45.269 You're worth the work. Listen, Dara, I'm not going to 377 00:21:45.289 --> 00:21:45.849 pull punches. 378 00:21:46.069 --> 00:21:48.039 You can use your voice even if it shakes. 379 00:21:48.230 --> 00:21:51.480 The stories are different, but the impact is the same. 380 00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:55.559 Only one question matters. What happens next? 381 00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:06.119 Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I'm very excited to 382 00:22:06.339 --> 00:22:10.059 speak to return guest, but she's also an author, Emily 383 00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:11.119 Lynn Paulson. 384 00:22:11.619 --> 00:22:12.460 Hey, hon. 385 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:12.539 Hi. 386 00:22:13.220 --> 00:22:16.140 So this is a juicy book about your life when 387 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.089 you got sucked into an MLM. 388 00:22:19.109 --> 00:22:19.180 Yes. 389 00:22:19.970 --> 00:22:21.730 And you tell it all. And I'm very excited to 390 00:22:21.750 --> 00:22:24.309 talk to you. But I just remind people that are 391 00:22:24.509 --> 00:22:27.849 hardcore juicy scoopers, I did have you on probably like what, 392 00:22:27.910 --> 00:22:28.750 like two years ago? 393 00:22:28.769 --> 00:22:33.089 Gosh, I guess so. Yeah, it was 2021. Yeah, March 394 00:22:33.109 --> 00:22:34.089 of 2021, I think. 395 00:22:34.170 --> 00:22:38.730 You were, you're a USC alum. And unfortunately, you went 396 00:22:38.789 --> 00:22:43.670 to the horrible gynecologist that was where you went. to 397 00:22:43.930 --> 00:22:46.829 have your exams if you were a student there. And 398 00:22:46.930 --> 00:22:51.710 you were so brave and put it on the record 399 00:22:51.730 --> 00:22:54.690 and sued and everything else. And that was fascinating to 400 00:22:54.710 --> 00:22:56.950 talk to you back then. But you are a married 401 00:22:56.970 --> 00:23:01.619 mother of five. You live in beautiful Oregon. And let's 402 00:23:01.859 --> 00:23:08.240 get into what happened when you got involved in this skincare, cosmetic, 403 00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:11.660 multi-level marketing. How did they just start from the beginning? 404 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:12.700 Because I have so many questions. 405 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:16.200 Yeah. So I had just had my last kid. So, 406 00:23:16.220 --> 00:23:18.039 you know, I was a stay-at-home mom with five kids 407 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:20.400 and I'd been out of the workforce for a pretty 408 00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:23.359 long time. And my husband had a pretty demanding job. 409 00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:26.509 He traveled a lot. So I had this like desire 410 00:23:26.549 --> 00:23:30.130 to do something. I wanted to earn money or just 411 00:23:30.430 --> 00:23:33.650 contribute in some other way than like wiping butts and 412 00:23:33.690 --> 00:23:37.329 changing diapers, right? I just, I craved something else. And 413 00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:40.440 getting childcare for five kids was totally out of the question. 414 00:23:40.460 --> 00:23:44.680 And so when friend reached out via social media, a 415 00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:46.920 friend from high school, and said, you know, hey, I'm 416 00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:50.440 meeting friends for wine. You want to come out and meet? 417 00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:53.140 I was like, first of all, yes. Like, get me 418 00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:55.349 out of the house. I'd love to go out. And 419 00:23:55.509 --> 00:23:57.109 she worked for one of those companies. 420 00:23:57.410 --> 00:23:57.690 Yeah. 421 00:23:57.750 --> 00:24:01.089 So I knew she was meeting people for, you know, work, 422 00:24:01.230 --> 00:24:05.079 quote unquote work. And I had seen some of her 423 00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:08.359 posts on social media, and I had been intrigued a 424 00:24:08.380 --> 00:24:11.380 little bit. I was I had that feeling, though,

of, like, cringe. 425 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:13.259 Like, it's one of those things. Okay, so let's talk 426 00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:15.619 about the post. What were the things that intrigued you 427 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:17.460 and what were the cringey ones? 428 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:19.160 So it was the things I was looking for. Like, 429 00:24:19.460 --> 00:24:21.480 it looked like she was making lots of money. Like, 430 00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:23.539 that looked nice. And she was home with her kids. 431 00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:27.119 So were her posts like, just got this new ride? Yes. 432 00:24:27.220 --> 00:24:28.640 Or I just went on this trip. That was the 433 00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:30.980 other thing. I'm like, oh, gosh, she's going on a trip, like, 434 00:24:31.009 --> 00:24:33.410 without her family and with all these women. 435 00:24:33.430 --> 00:24:33.509 Yeah. 436 00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:36.140 All this camaraderie. That sounds so wonderful. 437 00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:36.299 I know. 438 00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:38.319 It sounds so nice. It's like she was in like 439 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:42.079 wine country and it looked really aspirational. 440 00:24:42.259 --> 00:24:42.339 Yeah. 441 00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:43.940 You know, it looked like she was succeeding. She had 442 00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:47.089 all these friends seemingly. So those things look nice. 443 00:24:47.309 --> 00:24:47.529 Yeah. 444 00:24:47.589 --> 00:24:51.529 But what was cringy was the constant. It was like 445 00:24:51.549 --> 00:24:55.170 the constant feed of, you know, oh, my business is 446 00:24:55.210 --> 00:24:57.519 blessing me with this. Wouldn't you want to join this? 447 00:24:57.559 --> 00:24:59.559 Come join my team. All of those things that you 448 00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:00.200 see and hear. 449 00:25:00.220 --> 00:25:00.359 Right. 450 00:25:01.190 --> 00:25:03.069 And, you know, she reached out a couple of times. 451 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:05.519 And so I guess that part of me was like, 452 00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:08.519 I don't want to, like, have makeup parties at my house. 453 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:10.460 And I don't want to be the person annoying people 454 00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:13.779 in their DMs. So I was a little bit mixed, 455 00:25:13.819 --> 00:25:15.900 but I'm like, whatever. She's inviting me out. I'm going 456 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:19.450 to go meet her out. So go out, meet with her. 457 00:25:19.470 --> 00:25:23.029 And it kind of was like the perfect storm of, 458 00:25:23.049 --> 00:25:25.880 you know, I was drinking wine, so that helped. And 459 00:25:25.900 --> 00:25:27.339 there's all these products out. And I was like, oh, 460 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:29.539 those look good. You know, I'm kind of looking for 461 00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:31.900 new stuff for my skin. And like, of course, I 462 00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:35.089 just had a baby. And so, you know, stuff goes on. 463 00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:37.670 You're losing your hair and, you know, your skin's dry and. 464 00:25:37.609 --> 00:25:38.150 All that stuff. 465 00:25:38.190 --> 00:25:40.170 So I thought, OK, these would be good. So killing 466 00:25:40.210 --> 00:25:44.029 two birds with one stone. And again, there's all these 467 00:25:44.089 --> 00:25:46.549 women there. And I'm like, gosh, if they can do it, 468 00:25:47.190 --> 00:25:50.009 maybe this is something that I can do. And again, 469 00:25:50.029 --> 00:25:51.349 this was someone I knew. Like I went to high 470 00:25:51.369 --> 00:25:54.309 school with her. It's like I know her. I like her. 471 00:25:54.369 --> 00:25:57.009 I trust her. she wouldn't lead me astray. And so 472 00:25:57.049 --> 00:25:58.670 by the end of the night, I was like, sign 473 00:25:58.690 --> 00:25:58.990 me up. 474 00:25:59.309 --> 00:26:01.930 And what is the initial sign me up? What's the, 475 00:26:01.990 --> 00:26:02.829 what does that entail? 476 00:26:02.910 --> 00:26:03.109 Yep. 477 00:26:03.269 --> 00:26:08.269 It entails basically signing a form with your social security 478 00:26:08.309 --> 00:26:11.170 number and a credit card number. And I paid a 479 00:26:11.190 --> 00:26:11.779 thousand dollars. 480 00:26:12.460 --> 00:26:14.220 So it's just a thousand. And what do you get 481 00:26:14.259 --> 00:26:14.920 for a thousand? 482 00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:18.779 You basically get like this kit of products and you 483 00:26:18.819 --> 00:26:22.240 can use them yourself. You can sell them. And the 484 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:24.700 reason I got roped into the big one was because 485 00:26:25.099 --> 00:26:26.579 You know, there was a few different options. I don't 486 00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:29.420 remember what. It was like $ 300, $ 600, $ 900 or something 487 00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:33.470 like that. And the bigger package was the bigger discount. 488 00:26:33.630 --> 00:26:35.069 The more you spent, the more you got. 489 00:26:35.089 --> 00:26:35.390 Got it. 490 00:26:35.529 --> 00:26:38.089 And so in those moments where it's like, ooh, I 491 00:26:38.130 --> 00:26:39.970 can only get this right now, I might as well 492 00:26:39.990 --> 00:26:40.569 get all of it. 493 00:26:40.950 --> 00:26:41.190 Yeah. 494 00:26:41.250 --> 00:26:42.529 You know, if I'm going to spend $ 300, I might 495 00:26:42.930 --> 00:26:45.089 as well spend $ 600. If I spend $ 600, I might 496 00:26:45.109 --> 00:26:47.589 as well, you know, just that like mind game, right? 497 00:26:47.990 --> 00:26:50.490 And so I thought, you know, if anything, I'll buy 498 00:26:50.529 --> 00:26:53.630 this stuff, I'll use it, and it'll be a discount 499 00:26:53.690 --> 00:26:56.740 if I never do anything again. you know, that it'll 500 00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:57.920 be worth it. I'll have all this stuff. 501 00:26:58.200 --> 00:26:58.339 Yeah. 502 00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:01.000 So you start using products and you like the products. 503 00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:01.700 Yeah. 504 00:27:01.819 --> 00:27:02.200 I

liked them. 505 00:27:02.539 --> 00:27:06.609 And so then when do you start like having parties 506 00:27:06.690 --> 00:27:07.430 or recruiting people? 507 00:27:07.450 --> 00:27:07.730 Yeah. 508 00:27:07.990 --> 00:27:11.130 So it was the very first night when I joined, 509 00:27:12.210 --> 00:27:14.450 I was, you know, I drove home and I didn't 510 00:27:14.470 --> 00:27:16.849 want to go home yet because my kids were still up. 511 00:27:17.029 --> 00:27:18.809 So I wanted to wait till after bedtime to like 512 00:27:18.869 --> 00:27:21.029 get the whole night. And so I met my best 513 00:27:21.069 --> 00:27:24.269 friend out And we got some chips and salsa. And 514 00:27:24.369 --> 00:27:26.809 I kind of showed her, like, the pamphlets and everything. 515 00:27:27.490 --> 00:27:29.509 And she was like, well, if you did this, like, 516 00:27:29.549 --> 00:27:31.829 is that something I could do? And she was sort 517 00:27:31.849 --> 00:27:34.910 of looking for an escape, too. She was just in 518 00:27:34.930 --> 00:27:37.289 the middle of a divorce and all this stuff. And 519 00:27:37.309 --> 00:27:39.609 we were like, oh, this would be fun to do together. Like, 520 00:27:39.670 --> 00:27:41.559 nothing may ever happen, but it would be fun. And 521 00:27:41.579 --> 00:27:42.779 so she signed up that day, too. 522 00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:45.319 But now was that girl then under you? 523 00:27:45.619 --> 00:27:45.880 Yes. 524 00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:46.579 Oh. 525 00:27:46.599 --> 00:27:46.859 Yes. 526 00:27:46.900 --> 00:27:48.920 So now you're already a star. 527 00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:53.160 Yes, exactly. Okay. Okay, so now what do you guys do? 528 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:58.339 So honestly, so the next thing that happened was I 529 00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:01.259 got announced on social media. So I kind of thought 530 00:28:01.309 --> 00:28:03.849 this is something I'm going to do, you know, on 531 00:28:03.890 --> 00:28:05.670 the side. I'll try it out. I'm not going to 532 00:28:05.690 --> 00:28:08.750 take it too seriously. You know, my friend signed up. 533 00:28:08.829 --> 00:28:11.150 We'll figure this out, right? Like I hadn't even got 534 00:28:11.170 --> 00:28:13.630 the products to my house yet. Yeah. And then I 535 00:28:13.650 --> 00:28:16.599 was tagged in a post by the friend I met 536 00:28:16.660 --> 00:28:17.000 up with. 537 00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:17.380 Yeah. 538 00:28:17.690 --> 00:28:21.339 And it was like, welcome to the company. And, you know, 539 00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:23.420 Emily joined. She's a busy mom of five. It was 540 00:28:23.460 --> 00:28:24.460 like this announcement. 541 00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:24.859 Yeah. 542 00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:26.519 And I was like, oh. So I kind of got 543 00:28:26.819 --> 00:28:29.460 outed on social media. Like my mom texted me and 544 00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:32.349 she's like, what did you join? Like what's going on? 545 00:28:32.390 --> 00:28:34.210 I'm like, oh, crap. Like I hadn't even

told my 546 00:28:34.250 --> 00:28:34.890 husband yet. 547 00:28:34.990 --> 00:28:35.089 Yeah. 548 00:28:35.609 --> 00:28:38.789 And so it was sort of that uncomfortable like, well, 549 00:28:38.829 --> 00:28:40.430 now I guess I have to talk about it. 550 00:28:40.430 --> 00:28:40.789 Right. 551 00:28:41.390 --> 00:28:44.450 And so I was given all of these like scripts 552 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:50.329 and– like business, business, again, air quotes, things to follow. 553 00:28:50.390 --> 00:28:53.099 Like first thing to do, step one, post about your business. 554 00:28:53.130 --> 00:28:56.220 Step two, message these people. Make a dirt list. 555 00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:57.579 What people? The people in your life? 556 00:28:57.819 --> 00:29:00.440 So you make, this is really cringy. I talk about 557 00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:02.299 this in the book, but the first thing you do 558 00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:03.759 is you make a dirt list. 559 00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:04.859 Okay. 560 00:29:05.339 --> 00:29:08.079 A dirt list is comprised of people who would buy 561 00:29:08.119 --> 00:29:11.680 dirt from you. That's why it's called a dirt list. 562 00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:13.900 So those are the people who, no matter what you're 563 00:29:13.940 --> 00:29:17.579 doing or selling, would buy anything from you. And so 564 00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:18.680 you make a list of those people. 565 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.869 So that's your mom, your sister. Yes, totally. 566 00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:23.049 Your best friend, like whatever, like the best friend I 567 00:29:23.089 --> 00:29:25.450 met with. Like she probably would have, no matter what company, 568 00:29:25.490 --> 00:29:27.390 what product, she probably would have joined just because it 569 00:29:27.430 --> 00:29:30.269 was me, right? So you make those lists and then 570 00:29:30.309 --> 00:29:34.529 you're given scripts to send out. Like, hey, hon, that's, 571 00:29:34.630 --> 00:29:36.130 you know, the title, hence the title. 572 00:29:36.150 --> 00:29:37.710 Hey, hon. Yeah. 573 00:29:38.029 --> 00:29:38.809 I know that. 574 00:29:39.130 --> 00:29:41.109 We haven't talked in 12 years. Yes. Yes. 575 00:29:41.210 --> 00:29:42.750 I don't know if you've seen what I'm doing, but 576 00:29:42.789 --> 00:29:45.579 I'd love to pick your brain about my new business. 577 00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:49.900 You know, we're the whatever. Number one, blah, blah, blah company. 578 00:29:50.019 --> 00:29:51.859 You know, you go on the spiel and, you know, 579 00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:52.940 is there a time we can talk? 580 00:29:53.259 --> 00:29:53.420 Right. 581 00:29:53.460 --> 00:29:56.079 So that you go go on the attack in people's DMs. 582 00:29:56.420 --> 00:29:56.640 Right. 583 00:29:56.779 --> 00:29:58.980 And then you make another list. It's called your dream 584 00:29:59.039 --> 00:29:59.599 team list. 585 00:29:59.859 --> 00:30:00.160 Yeah. 586 00:30:00.529 --> 00:30:02.630 Like, I can't say these with a straight face. But 587 00:30:02.670 --> 00:30:05.710 it's people who, if you could pick anyone to, like, 588 00:30:05.769 --> 00:30:06.670 be on your team. 589 00:30:06.849 --> 00:30:07.190 Oprah. 590 00:30:07.430 --> 00:30:10.710 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, totally aspirational. Like, the most famous 591 00:30:10.750 --> 00:30:11.490 people you know. 592 00:30:11.509 --> 00:30:12.849 Oh, you actually are, it's like. 593 00:30:13.049 --> 00:30:15.789 Oh, like, but, like, people who you would have contact with. Like, oh, 594 00:30:15.849 --> 00:30:17.819 who does my husband know at work who's got, who's 595 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:20.000 really well connected or something. Oh, okay. So then you, like, 596 00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:20.940 write those people down. Okay. 597 00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:21.099 Right? 598 00:30:21.140 --> 00:30:21.339 Right. 599 00:30:22.369 --> 00:30:25.130 And then you just, again, you've got scripts, like, to 600 00:30:25.190 --> 00:30:28.329 reach out to them. And you start, again, sending messages, 601 00:30:28.410 --> 00:30:34.130 sending DMs, sending texts, sending emails, whatever. Calling people, cold 602 00:30:34.150 --> 00:30:38.559 calling people. And getting people to, like, join you. So 603 00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:39.839 that's how that starts. 604 00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:45.440 Okay. So how many years were you involved in this? 605 00:30:46.180 --> 00:30:47.559 Over six. Like, six and a half. 606 00:30:48.140 --> 00:30:53.240 And so... Talk about the success. Like when, explain that. 607 00:30:53.619 --> 00:30:53.819 Yeah. 608 00:30:54.400 --> 00:30:57.440 So the reason I really got sucked in, and I 609 00:30:57.460 --> 00:31:00.160 think the reason I did so well at first is 610 00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:02.539 because there weren't a lot of people in my area. 611 00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:05.029 I was in Seattle at the time. And this company 612 00:31:05.069 --> 00:31:07.750 really wasn't big there. Nobody had really heard of it. 613 00:31:07.849 --> 00:31:11.210 There wasn't anybody really working for this company there. And 614 00:31:11.309 --> 00:31:14.230 so when I talked to my friends about it, they're like, oh, cool. Sure, 615 00:31:14.269 --> 00:31:17.910 I'll try that stuff, right? And so I had that. 616 00:31:18.049 --> 00:31:21.130 There was nobody using it. And I had money, and 617 00:31:21.369 --> 00:31:24.309 I had a big network of friends with money. And 618 00:31:24.349 --> 00:31:27.349 so that allowed me to look like I was succeeding 619 00:31:27.450 --> 00:31:30.490 really quickly, even though I wasn't getting a huge paycheck 620 00:31:30.529 --> 00:31:35.089 or anything. But you start getting tagged on social media. 621 00:31:35.130 --> 00:31:39.380 You start getting all these accolades from the company. You 622 00:31:39.410 --> 00:31:41.799 start promoting with all these weird titles, like you're a 623 00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:44.819 superstar number eight or whatever, and you don't even know 624 00:31:44.839 -->

00:31:47.589 what that means. But you're getting like those dopamine hits. 625 00:31:47.890 --> 00:31:50.069 So are you just getting people under you? Are you 626 00:31:50.329 --> 00:31:52.509 actually fulfilling orders? 627 00:31:53.150 --> 00:31:56.519 There's some of that. But honestly, the products are just 628 00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:00.400 a way to get people in the funnel, in the company. 629 00:32:00.859 --> 00:32:03.140 Because everything I've read is like it's really, it's not 630 00:32:03.180 --> 00:32:05.500 even how many of the products sell. It's that you 631 00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:09.619 have all these people that spent $ 1, 000. 632 00:32:07.660 --> 00:32:07.819 Right. 633 00:32:08.140 --> 00:32:10.440 And then that $ 1, 000 person has, you know, six people 634 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:11.259 under them who bought $ 1, 000. 635 00:32:11.140 --> 00:32:11.210 Yep. 636 00:32:12.309 --> 00:32:14.950 Because honestly, you never need anybody else to do anything again. 637 00:32:14.990 --> 00:32:19.019 If I had just bought the $ 1, 000 kit, my upline 638 00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:21.859 would have made money from that and she would have 639 00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:24.880 been happy with that. Then she'd go recruit somebody else. 640 00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:27.460 And ideally, you want someone who's going to sell and 641 00:32:27.500 --> 00:32:29.920 recruit other people because then you earn a commission on that. 642 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:32.299 How much commission do you get for each person? 643 00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:34.720 So it's different for each company, but you earn money on... 644 00:32:37.730 --> 00:32:40.980 you know, whether it's 10%, 5%, 20%, depends on the company, 645 00:32:41.180 --> 00:32:44.079 on anybody who joins you in your downline. So, you know, 646 00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.339 someone joins me, I earn money on their sales. Someone 647 00:32:47.380 --> 00:32:49.400 joins them, I earn money on her sales and those 648 00:32:49.420 --> 00:32:51.759 sales below them. So it's this, again, it's a pyramid. 649 00:32:51.779 --> 00:32:53.940 So all the sales flow up. So the bigger your 650 00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:57.390 pyramid is, the more you make. And so it's all 651 00:32:57.450 --> 00:32:59.750 about recruiting. It's about getting as many people as possible, 652 00:32:59.809 --> 00:33:02.450 because even if you're just selling product or recruiting people, 653 00:33:02.809 --> 00:33:05.880 that's what's important is more people. And when you do 654 00:33:05.940 --> 00:33:08.380 buy a product as a customer, which anybody who probably 655 00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:11.619 has ever bought from an MLM would know, is you're 656 00:33:11.740 --> 00:33:15.789 never left alone. Like, say you buy an eye cream 657 00:33:15.829 --> 00:33:17.829 from me or something. I would be in your DMs 658 00:33:17.910 --> 00:33:19.849 every month like, hey, do you need to add anything 659 00:33:19.890 --> 00:33:22.250 else to that? Anything else you want to try? You know, 660 00:33:22.269 --> 00:33:23.809 the best way to get a discount is to join 661 00:33:23.849 --> 00:33:26.420 as a consultant. Like, now you're just another target. 662 00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:26.980 Wow. 663 00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:28.559 Yeah. 664 00:33:28.579 --> 00:33:30.839 And so you don't really have to do the– at 665 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:35.079 this particular company, you weren't doing– the Mary Kay parties 666 00:33:35.700 --> 00:33:36.920 or the Tupperware parties. 667 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.039 Yeah, I think I had a party at my house 668 00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:41.460 to begin with, like a launch party. I think I 669 00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:44.180 did something at first. And then it was like going 670 00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:47.440 to retention events. So the other thing that these companies do, 671 00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:49.599 and they do it everywhere all over the country, is 672 00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:52.509 they have little local events where it's like, come learn 673 00:33:52.549 --> 00:33:56.710 about XYZ company. And consultants like me, I would bring 674 00:33:56.769 --> 00:33:58.930 friends to it. I'd invite friends to it. And they'd 675 00:33:58.950 --> 00:34:02.450 have some speaker who was a consultant who talking about 676 00:34:02.509 --> 00:34:05.750 how this company changed their lives. And again, really aspirational. 677 00:34:06.490 --> 00:34:07.730 And they'd have products there. 678 00:34:07.890 --> 00:34:09.650 And that's like a three-day convention thing? 679 00:34:09.710 --> 00:34:11.429 No, these were just like a night, right? 680 00:34:11.449 --> 00:34:12.250 Just one evening. 681 00:34:12.289 --> 00:34:15.719 Just like an easy couple hour thing. But then again, 682 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:17.840 you're in the funnel. Like you're going to be bugged 683 00:34:17.909 --> 00:34:21.800 like every day until you sign up. And you've got 684 00:34:21.820 --> 00:34:25.400 this boss babe like on your ass constantly. What'd you 685 00:34:25.420 --> 00:34:28.980 think of the presentation? And are you going to join? So, 686 00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:31.460 you know, there's those type of things all the time 687 00:34:31.500 --> 00:34:34.860 that you really, you know, you're not required to go to, 688 00:34:35.300 --> 00:34:38.090 but you're really, it's like if you want to be successful, 689 00:34:38.110 --> 00:34:39.210 you've got to show up to these things. 690 00:34:39.530 --> 00:34:45.130 And when did that name become so associated with stay-at-home 691 00:34:45.150 --> 00:34:48.690 moms or multi-level marketing, the boss babe? You know, I. 692 00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:52.199 I don't know. I know it was there when I joined, 693 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:54.260 but I think it came, it came, there was this 694 00:34:54.300 --> 00:34:54.960 girl boss. 695 00:34:55.260 --> 00:34:55.719 Oh girl. 696 00:34:55.780 --> 00:34:57.969 You know, it kind of started with that. And then 697 00:34:57.989 -->

00:34:59.849 I think it morphed into boss babe. 698 00:34:59.989 --> 00:35:00.210 Right. 699 00:35:00.489 --> 00:35:03.710 You know, all these infantilizing like monikers, which you don't 700 00:35:03.750 --> 00:35:06.670 hear for men. Like you're a boy boss. Like you're 701 00:35:06.730 --> 00:35:08.409 a dude boss. You never hear that. 702 00:35:08.449 --> 00:35:10.760 I know. I always thought it was like, yeah, so what? 703 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:11.059 I know. 704 00:35:11.099 --> 00:35:12.980 Just like, I'm just a boss. Just call me a boss. 705 00:35:13.179 --> 00:35:17.989 Yeah. Like, yeah. And, um, OK, so then what about 706 00:35:18.030 --> 00:35:20.199 the like the vacations and stuff that you get to 707 00:35:20.260 --> 00:35:21.570 go because you're a certain level? Do you go on 708 00:35:21.610 --> 00:35:23.460 like cruises and shit like that? Yes. 709 00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:28.500 So that's one thing that's really it's ironic that they're 710 00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:30.360 all called like, oh, I earned this free trip. I 711 00:35:30.380 --> 00:35:35.840 earned this free thing because you have to earn them. Right. Like, 712 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.639 you know, with a normal company, you might get bonuses, 713 00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:41.119 you might get a company trip or something like that. 714 00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:44.090 But you're also getting paid for a job like during 715 00:35:44.119 --> 00:35:46.719 that time. This is just you're doing unpaid labor all 716 00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:48.980 the time trying to earn these things. And whether that's 717 00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:52.000 like recruit two people and do this weird like dance 718 00:35:52.099 --> 00:35:56.610 metric thing. So you have to qualify for certain trips, 719 00:35:57.130 --> 00:35:59.050 whether it's, you know, a trip like a cruise. A 720 00:35:59.070 --> 00:36:02.630 lot of companies do cruises or a trip to Mexico, whatever. 721 00:36:03.570 --> 00:36:06.070 And then they give you a stipend. So they'll give 722 00:36:06.110 --> 00:36:09.880 you a certain stipend for like really good. shitty airplane travel, 723 00:36:09.980 --> 00:36:12.739 which you always end up upgrading. And then generally, if 724 00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:14.730 you're going to go on a trip, you don't go 725 00:36:14.769 --> 00:36:17.630 to Mexico for like two days. And so you upgrade 726 00:36:17.670 --> 00:36:20.489 and extend a little bit. And it's always a crappy 727 00:36:20.530 --> 00:36:22.989 hotel room. And so you like upgrade that. So it's 728 00:36:23.010 --> 00:36:26.010 always like the bare bones. And so you always end 729 00:36:26.050 --> 00:36:28.610 up spending more money. That's the first thing, like these 730 00:36:28.750 --> 00:36:31.090 free trips. And the more I talk to people, like 731 00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:33.139 I interviewed a lot of people when I wrote this book, 732 00:36:33.570 --> 00:36:36.469 That was the one thing that always came up. It's like, oh, 733 00:36:36.510 --> 00:36:38.230 I earned this thing, and it ended up costing me 734 00:36:38.269 --> 00:36:41.429 twice as much, or I got a fine from the 735 00:36:41.550 --> 00:36:43.929 IRS because I didn't claim it on my taxes, because 736 00:36:43.969 --> 00:36:45.730 you're then taxed on it at the end of the year. 737 00:36:45.849 --> 00:36:51.789 It's on your income as a payment, basically. Say it's 738 00:36:51.829 --> 00:36:53.369 a $ 10, 000 value trip. On your end of year, your 1099, 739 00:36:53.349 --> 00:37:03.920 it'll have $ 10, 000 for whatever Mexico trip as income, which okay, great, thanks, 740 00:37:04.119 --> 00:37:07.280 but like you can't pay your rent with a Mexico trip, right? 741 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:08.000 So it's not money. 742 00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:10.559 So when you're doing this, what are your checks like 743 00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:11.360 from this company? 744 00:37:11.619 --> 00:37:11.780 Yeah. 745 00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:15.699 So at first they were, I mean, I didn't expect 746 00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:17.679 anything at first. And so it's like the first check 747 00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:20.010 was like $ 700. And then the next one was like, 748 00:37:20.530 --> 00:37:23.210 you know, $ 1, 000. And then, but it was like, I 749 00:37:23.250 --> 00:37:25.429 was a stay-at-home mom. I thought that was pretty good. 750 00:37:25.469 --> 00:37:27.389 And it seemed pretty easy at first. Like I was 751 00:37:27.409 --> 00:37:29.730 just talking to people. But then as time went on, 752 00:37:29.849 --> 00:37:32.590 I had to start like putting more money into the system. 753 00:37:33.170 --> 00:37:35.969 Because I had to, again, pay a babysitter to go 754 00:37:35.989 --> 00:37:38.679 to these retention events. Yeah. You know, I had to 755 00:37:38.780 --> 00:37:41.519 buy all this product myself. Then there would be like 756 00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:44.579 qualifications for things that your upline would be like, oh, 757 00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:47.400 just buy a couple extra sunscreens or something and then 758 00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:49.250 you'll qualify. And then there's a. 759 00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:51.840 And then you'll hit the level to get the next thing. 760 00:37:51.860 --> 00:37:52.760 Exactly. 761 00:37:52.780 --> 00:37:55.179 And where are all these products? Do you have like 762 00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:57.070 a room in your house or just like a storage? 763 00:37:57.170 --> 00:37:57.940 Like a closet, yes. 764 00:37:57.949 --> 00:37:58.489 Okay, all right. 765 00:37:58.510 --> 00:38:00.360 Like a closet. I mean, and they always say like, oh, 766 00:38:00.369 --> 00:38:03.170 you don't have to carry inventory. And it's like every... 767 00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:05.739 chick I know who's in an MLM has just closets 768 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:10.889 full of their own products because you are incentivized for 769 00:38:10.929 --> 00:38:14.389 purchasing it. You're incentivized for having it for all this stuff, 770

00:38:14.510 --> 00:38:18.210 for bonuses, all these things. So, um, so yeah, you 771 00:38:18.250 --> 00:38:21.570 qualify for a trip and then, you know, you're given 772 00:38:21.610 --> 00:38:25.719 a stipend and it's, you're taxed on it. 773 00:38:26.440 --> 00:38:29.650 And I mean, And then are you at a seminar 774 00:38:29.829 --> 00:38:32.210 all day long? And is it weird stuff? Or do 775 00:38:32.269 --> 00:38:35.550 you have celebrities there? Like, do you get invited to, like, 776 00:38:35.710 --> 00:38:38.429 certain dinners if you're the top person? And if you're not, 777 00:38:38.469 --> 00:38:40.480 you have to eat in the room or what? 778 00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:43.880 You, like, qualify for the parties. And, again, this is 779 00:38:43.940 --> 00:38:46.420 another incentive along the way to get people to spend 780 00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:48.219 more money, right? Hey, if you buy this thing, if 781 00:38:48.260 --> 00:38:50.719 you sell this many things, if you recruit these many people, 782 00:38:51.059 --> 00:38:54.130 you'll qualify for this, like, extra fancy super duper sparkle 783 00:38:54.170 --> 00:38:57.760 party or the bling suite or this– stupid things that 784 00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:00.500 have like, you know, whatever, these names, right? 785 00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:03.000 And did you like all these women or did you 786 00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:04.360 think they were kind of geeky or what? 787 00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:09.369 Like, I mean, I really liked the person I joined. 788 00:39:09.469 --> 00:39:11.849 I liked the people on my team. And like the 789 00:39:11.869 --> 00:39:14.469 people you generally bring in to join you are your 790 00:39:14.489 --> 00:39:17.110 friends and family. So like those were my people anyway. 791 00:39:17.150 --> 00:39:17.849 So they were great. 792 00:39:17.929 --> 00:39:20.170 Did you ever have to put pressure on somebody that 793 00:39:20.190 --> 00:39:24.670 was just like, Emily, like, just please, this is just 794 00:39:24.710 --> 00:39:27.920 too much. I need to get a regular job. Tell 795 00:39:28.139 --> 00:39:28.719 me about that. 796 00:39:28.820 --> 00:39:29.000 Yes. 797 00:39:29.500 --> 00:39:32.360 So actually the friend who joined me, the first person 798 00:39:32.380 --> 00:39:33.960 to join me, and I do talk about this in 799 00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.639 the book, she, you know, again, got a divorce and 800 00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:41.510 like she wasn't, you know, excelling as much as I was. 801 00:39:41.989 --> 00:39:43.969 So her paychecks weren't as big as mine. And so 802 00:39:44.050 --> 00:39:46.050 she had to get a real job. And at that 803 00:39:46.110 --> 00:39:49.389 point I was, I had drunk the Kool-Aid like pretty hard. 804 00:39:50.050 --> 00:39:51.869 And so I was like, why are you applying for 805 00:39:51.909 --> 00:39:54.219 a real job? Like, why not just put more into this? 806 00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:57.059 And that's one thing MLMs do, too, is they really 807 00:39:57.159 --> 00:40:00.019 malign like nine to fives. Like, why are you working 808 00:40:00.059 --> 00:40:02.159 at a nine to five when you could be your 809 00:40:02.179 --> 00:40:04.440 own boss, babe? And, you know, make your own hours 810 00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:04.820 and all that. 811 00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:06.489 Yeah. 812 00:40:07.090 --> 00:40:07.809 So, yeah. 813 00:40:07.889 --> 00:40:09.050 And what did she say? 814 00:40:09.070 --> 00:40:13.050 She I mean, she was realistic. Like I you know, 815 00:40:13.110 --> 00:40:17.260 this doesn't have health insurance. This doesn't have. you know, 816 00:40:17.500 --> 00:40:21.239 a 401k, like this isn't stable. Right. But for me 817 00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:23.840 who had a husband who had all those things, like 818 00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:26.239 that's not where my mind was. Oh, good point. It 819 00:40:26.260 --> 00:40:29.849 was like, and that's why people who really are successful, 820 00:40:29.889 --> 00:40:33.010 which again, it's like a 0.00 percentage of people who 821 00:40:33.050 --> 00:40:37.469 are successful, they have a second income. They already have money. 822 00:40:38.010 --> 00:40:40.590 You know, there's nobody who's at the top who like 823 00:40:41.050 --> 00:40:41.849 came off the street. 824 00:40:42.230 --> 00:40:42.369 Right. 825 00:40:42.409 --> 00:40:45.429 You already have to have a very significant amount of 826 00:40:45.489 --> 00:40:49.239 like financial socioeconomic privilege to get in in the first 827 00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:50.820 place and to succeed. 828 00:40:51.179 --> 00:40:55.280 That is so interesting. A good friend of mine was, 829 00:40:55.719 --> 00:40:57.809 you know, got sucked into her friend's MLM. 830 00:40:58.030 --> 00:40:58.190 Yeah. 831 00:40:58.949 --> 00:41:01.510 And I used the product too, but I was like, 832 00:41:02.210 --> 00:41:03.949 this is, you know, going nowhere. 833 00:41:04.090 --> 00:41:04.269 Yeah. 834 00:41:04.590 --> 00:41:08.389 And then that, that person, her husband was like, got 835 00:41:08.429 --> 00:41:11.719 diagnosed with cancer or whatever. And so she said, what 836 00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:13.940 can I, what can I do for you and your family? 837 00:41:14.579 --> 00:41:19.300 And she goes, Just keep pushing the product or whatever. 838 00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:22.800 Just keep working on your team. Just keep building. And 839 00:41:22.900 --> 00:41:24.880 when my friend told me that, I'm like, this is 840 00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:31.360 so wrong. Like you're making 12 cents. I'm like, it's 841 00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:34.289 not like this is and you have another thing. But 842 00:41:34.329 --> 00:41:37.610 just it's like people will get sucked into it that 843 00:41:37.690 --> 00:41:41.530 do are professionals. They do have professional careers and they're 844 00:41:41.550 --> 00:41:44.050 just like, yeah, OK, fine, you know. So then when 845 00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:49.260 did you start to realize, you know, that it's

getting 846 00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:50.099 ugly and weird? 847 00:41:50.300 --> 00:41:54.539 Yeah. So I think there were things all along the 848 00:41:54.579 --> 00:41:57.139 way that I was like, but then you see. 849 00:41:57.170 --> 00:41:58.690 What's your husband thinking, first of all? 850 00:41:59.150 --> 00:42:02.130 So he was very much like, do what you want 851 00:42:02.150 --> 00:42:02.389 to do. 852 00:42:02.409 --> 00:42:02.750 Yeah. 853 00:42:02.769 --> 00:42:05.030 Like, good for you. And he saw, like, I was 854 00:42:05.070 --> 00:42:07.110 happy and it seemed like I was doing well. So 855 00:42:07.130 --> 00:42:08.280 he was kind of like, that's cool. 856 00:42:08.300 --> 00:42:08.389 Cool. 857 00:42:09.090 --> 00:42:12.530 But he was very much not the boss babe husband. 858 00:42:12.690 --> 00:42:13.949 He was like not. 859 00:42:14.230 --> 00:42:15.610 What's a boss babe husband dream? 860 00:42:15.630 --> 00:42:18.199 So have you ever heard of retiring your husband? Have 861 00:42:18.219 --> 00:42:18.980 you ever heard that phrase? 862 00:42:19.099 --> 00:42:22.000 Oh, yes. I think I have seen this on these shows. Oh, God. 863 00:42:22.059 --> 00:42:24.860 So retiring your husband is not retirement. It is like 864 00:42:24.900 --> 00:42:27.300 your husband quits his job and then joins you in 865 00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:27.880 the MLM. 866 00:42:28.500 --> 00:42:30.139 I remember this from the Lula. 867 00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:30.590 Yes. 868 00:42:30.730 --> 00:42:31.230 Lula Rich. 869 00:42:31.309 --> 00:42:31.730 Yes. Yes. 870 00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:34.840 So then, and this is, this is perfect for the 871 00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:37.019 MLM because now you're screwed. 872 00:42:37.139 --> 00:42:39.320 Like you, you have to really can never get out. 873 00:42:39.550 --> 00:42:42.449 You have to rely on the income. And so, and it's, 874 00:42:42.510 --> 00:42:45.849 I mean, retirement is like sitting on a beach and go, 875 00:42:45.949 --> 00:42:49.469 you know, that's retirement is not shilling an MLM. So, 876 00:42:49.650 --> 00:42:52.530 but that's like the goal. It's, it's aspirational to retire 877 00:42:52.550 --> 00:42:57.389 your husband. And as I got higher up, it was like, why, why, 878 00:42:58.110 --> 00:42:59.909 why is your husband still working? Like, it looks bad 879 00:42:59.949 --> 00:43:02.760 that your husband's still working. That was the messaging. And 880 00:43:02.780 --> 00:43:05.909 my husband's like, fuck you. Like that's the, no. 881 00:43:06.219 --> 00:43:08.389 At that point, how much were you making a year? 882 00:43:08.409 --> 00:43:11.690 The most I made in a month was $ 40, 000. Okay. Yeah. 883 00:43:12.849 --> 00:43:13.449 Significant. 884 00:43:13.489 --> 00:43:13.710 Yeah. 885 00:43:13.829 --> 00:43:15.920 And I never made like I made that one month. Yeah. 886 00:43:15.980 --> 00:43:17.739 And the rest was, you know, it was like a kind. 887 00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:18.920 Of went up, went down. So

what was like your 888 00:43:18.940 --> 00:43:19.639 best year then? 889 00:43:20.139 --> 00:43:21.699 I mean, well, I talk about this in the book 890 00:43:21.739 --> 00:43:24.670 too is On paper, you know, I made like $ 400, 000. Yeah. 891 00:43:25.769 --> 00:43:28.510 But that's before taxes. So that's the other thing about MLMs. 892 00:43:28.650 --> 00:43:31.570 It's before taxes. It's before expenses, which are really high. 893 00:43:32.349 --> 00:43:36.710 And anything else, any side expenses, again, like childcare, babysitters, 894 00:43:37.070 --> 00:43:40.929 you know, additive things, buying products. And so it was 895 00:43:40.969 --> 00:43:44.659 like cut in like a third, right? So, I mean, 896 00:43:44.739 --> 00:43:47.880 still great for like a stay-at-home mom. But there's a 897 00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:50.420 lot of this like mixed messaging where I was considered 898 00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:53.260 a million-dollar earner. Because I had earned a million dollars 899 00:43:53.480 --> 00:43:56.840 over that period of time. But when you divide it 900 00:43:57.079 --> 00:43:59.940 up over a certain number of years, it's like it's 901 00:43:59.980 --> 00:44:02.579 not that much per year, especially if you take out taxes. 902 00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:03.159 Yeah. 903 00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:06.389 And that's why all the posts are like, again, super aspirational. Like, oh, 904 00:44:06.449 --> 00:44:08.670 I've become a millionaire. It's like, well, that's not really 905 00:44:08.710 --> 00:44:11.210 what millionaire means. Making a million dollars over six years. 906 00:44:11.230 --> 00:44:16.469 So like what came first? You watching cult documentaries or? 907 00:44:16.889 --> 00:44:17.369 Getting out. 908 00:44:17.489 --> 00:44:17.789 Yes. 909 00:44:17.809 --> 00:44:21.630 Yes. So I, so the first thing that happened is 910 00:44:21.949 --> 00:44:22.550 I got sober. 911 00:44:23.190 --> 00:44:24.010 Okay. 912 00:44:24.030 --> 00:44:25.389 So I stopped drinking. 913 00:44:25.590 --> 00:44:27.909 Now, why did you feel that you needed to stop drinking? 914 00:44:28.010 --> 00:44:29.829 I mean, it was a problem and it was really 915 00:44:29.889 --> 00:44:33.070 exacerbated by the MLM. Um, it was like something that 916 00:44:33.090 --> 00:44:35.400 was kind of already a problem. And then I all 917 00:44:35.420 --> 00:44:37.179 of a sudden had all these excuses to drink more 918 00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:39.039 because I was like going out with clients and I 919 00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:41.179 was going to all these events and there was always 920 00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:45.280 champagne and, um, you know, so I was drinking a 921 00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:47.139 lot more. I just, it became a problem. So I 922 00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:52.780 quit drinking beginning of 2017. And that's when I was like, Oh, 923 00:44:53.059 --> 00:44:56.159 like I can't do all the things I've been doing. 924 00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:59.039 Like I couldn't send the cringy messages. I couldn't do 925 00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:00.920 the cut and paste things. I couldn't post stuff. 926 00:45:00.940 --> 00:45:02.039 As a sober person, you couldn't. 927 00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:04.739 Yes. It was like, I was all of a sudden, 928 00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:05.900 like the beer goggles were off. 929 00:45:05.980 --> 00:45:06.300 You were clear. 930 00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:07.119 You were clear headed. 931 00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:07.360 Yeah. 932 00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:11.469 Like I had totally drank away my intuition about it. 933 00:45:11.789 --> 00:45:13.570 And then I really started seeing things I didn't like. 934 00:45:13.710 --> 00:45:15.329 And now how many years were you in it once 935 00:45:15.369 --> 00:45:16.489 you became sober? 936 00:45:16.510 --> 00:45:19.070 So almost three. Okay. And at that point I had 937 00:45:19.110 --> 00:45:21.070 like hit the top, like I was at the top 938 00:45:21.090 --> 00:45:24.039 of the pyramid. And I really believed at that point, 939 00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:26.409 like it was because of my hard work. Like I, 940 00:45:26.579 --> 00:45:28.860 I really worked hard, but nobody else. 941 00:45:28.900 --> 00:45:32.320 And honestly, how many hours a day or a week 942 00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:35.340 do you think you're putting forth? Like all the time 943 00:45:35.389 --> 00:45:37.840 you're on your phone looking, All the time. So probably 944 00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:40.960 more than probably eight hours a day. Oh, easily. Easily. 945 00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:44.179 Because even when I was like with my family or 946 00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:46.619 at like the phone was always in my hand. I 947 00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:48.880 had to be so connected all the time. I was 948 00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:51.860 like at the beck and call of if someone, you know, 949 00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:54.320 answered my DM, I'd write right back. You know, I 950 00:45:54.340 --> 00:45:58.110 was really, really just I was in. I was very in. 951 00:45:58.789 --> 00:46:00.610 So that's one thing I noticed, too, is how much 952 00:46:00.630 --> 00:46:04.099 time I was on my phone. And I also started 953 00:46:04.119 --> 00:46:07.539 to see like, okay, I had succeeded. I had achieved 954 00:46:07.579 --> 00:46:10.260 this like pinnacle, but nobody else I brought in had. 955 00:46:11.380 --> 00:46:14.139 And I really believed like, well, they must not be 956 00:46:14.179 --> 00:46:17.090 doing all the things until then I was sober. And 957 00:46:17.110 --> 00:46:19.070 I was like, actually they are, they're doing everything that 958 00:46:19.309 --> 00:46:21.289 I did, but it's not working for them. And I 959 00:46:21.349 --> 00:46:23.730 started to see like, oh, mathematically it doesn't work that 960 00:46:23.769 --> 00:46:26.989 way because of saturation. And now there's so many people 961 00:46:27.050 --> 00:46:28.489 in Seattle who are doing this. 962 00:46:28.550 --> 00:46:28.829 Yeah. 963 00:46:28.889 --> 00:46:31.820 And

It can't work for everyone, and that's why I'm succeeding, 964 00:46:32.030 --> 00:46:34.369 because all of these people are paying in and then not. 965 00:46:34.949 --> 00:46:38.090 And they're just continuing to pay in, this sunk cost fallacy. 966 00:46:39.090 --> 00:46:44.250 Nobody was succeeding. And even the highest achieving people, it 967 00:46:44.269 --> 00:46:45.610 was like they were making a few hundred dollars a 968 00:46:45.659 --> 00:46:46.320 month or something. 969 00:46:46.460 --> 00:46:48.659 And where is your girl that's ahead of you that 970 00:46:48.699 --> 00:46:50.679 initially invited you to the wine dinner from high. 971 00:46:50.579 --> 00:46:53.380 School at this point? So I've actually surpassed her. 972 00:46:53.940 --> 00:46:54.380 Oh, okay. 973 00:46:54.500 --> 00:46:57.139 But she's making money off of me. So financially, she's 974 00:46:57.179 --> 00:46:57.559 doing great. 975 00:46:57.989 --> 00:46:58.210 Yeah. 976 00:46:58.510 --> 00:47:00.510 But I've surpassed her like in title. 977 00:47:00.849 --> 00:47:04.250 Right. So it's really like the goal is you two 978 00:47:04.469 --> 00:47:07.349 could get a golden nugget, which is Emily. 979 00:47:07.489 --> 00:47:07.670 Yeah. 980 00:47:08.110 --> 00:47:11.199 Yep. Some of yours might be duds. Yeah. Some of 981 00:47:11.239 --> 00:47:13.030 them may be rocks. Some of them you'll never hear 982 00:47:13.070 --> 00:47:13.300 from again. 983 00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:13.429 Yeah. 984 00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:15.440 But you only need a couple. 985 00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:16.500 Rock stars. 986 00:47:16.579 --> 00:47:16.920 Yeah. 987 00:47:16.940 --> 00:47:17.699 Yeah. Oh, yeah. 988 00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:19.900 Oh, so that's why you never stop. 989 00:47:20.059 --> 00:47:20.219 Yep. 990 00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:21.880 That's why you never stop. 991 00:47:21.980 --> 00:47:24.360 Everybody you meet. It's a numbers game. From the girl 992 00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:28.079 selling your shoes to the dyeing your hair to like, 993 00:47:28.179 --> 00:47:31.039 you know, at a cocktail party. Yep. It's always on 994 00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:33.280 your mind to try to recruit somebody. 995 00:47:33.340 --> 00:47:34.179 Yes. Yes. 996 00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:35.739 You're never off the clock. 997 00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:38.199 You're never off the clock. And you start getting so 998 00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:39.800 used to it that like you walk in somewhere and 999 00:47:39.820 --> 00:47:41.800 you're like, oh, she'd be really good. Oh, she'd be like. 1000 00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:45.800 you start seeing people as like walking dollar signs, which again, 1001 00:47:45.820 --> 00:47:48.579 once I was sober, I was like, that's gross. Right. 1002 00:47:48.619 --> 00:47:50.659 And then did you ever have anybody that, you know, 1003 00:47:50.699 --> 00:47:53.610 would call you or share like a sob story and 1004 00:47:53.650 --> 00:47:55.309 then you still had to try to keep them in 1005 00:47:55.349 --> 00:47:58.369 the game because you were so trained? Tell me about that. 1006 00:47:58.510 --> 00:48:03.420 Yeah. Like people who, again, weren't seeing success and they 1007 00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:05.139 were feeling like they were spending more money than they 1008 00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:08.199 were making. And so we'd have all these like platitudinous 1009 00:48:08.619 --> 00:48:10.840 like sayings like, well, you got to spend money to 1010 00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:13.530 make money or that's just the rent on your business. 1011 00:48:13.889 --> 00:48:16.170 Or again, you're like given all your spoon fed, all 1012 00:48:16.190 --> 00:48:20.010 of these things to say. And, and it's hard because 1013 00:48:20.030 --> 00:48:22.210 at that point you're like, okay, I've brought this friend in. 1014 00:48:22.230 --> 00:48:24.969 I want them to do well. I believe I can 1015 00:48:25.010 --> 00:48:27.309 do that. They can do well. Cause I did. And 1016 00:48:27.329 --> 00:48:29.510 so like that for so long, I really believed that 1017 00:48:29.530 --> 00:48:31.659 this was the best thing for people. And then when 1018 00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:34.880 I saw that it wasn't and it wasn't working, then 1019 00:48:35.139 --> 00:48:37.469 I stuck around for you know, a lot longer than 1020 00:48:37.489 --> 00:48:39.690 I think I would have because I felt guilty for 1021 00:48:39.730 --> 00:48:40.829 roping so many people in. 1022 00:48:41.570 --> 00:48:44.110 And like, so when did you like actually say it 1023 00:48:44.150 --> 00:48:47.710 out loud to your husband or whoever, like, I feel 1024 00:48:47.769 --> 00:48:50.769 gross about this and I want to get the fuck out. 1025 00:48:50.869 --> 00:48:51.090 Yeah. 1026 00:48:51.489 --> 00:48:54.780 So I, I wrote a book in 2019. So once 1027 00:48:55.340 --> 00:48:56.849 I would say at the end of 2018, beginning of 2019, I, 1028 00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:01.480 I started realizing, like, I want to get out. I 1029 00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:03.400 want to be done with this. And so I kind of, 1030 00:49:03.400 --> 00:49:05.909 I told my team, I told my customers, like, hey, 1031 00:49:05.989 --> 00:49:07.769 I don't like this anymore. Like, here's what I used 1032 00:49:07.789 --> 00:49:08.989 to believe. Here's what I believe now. 1033 00:49:09.250 --> 00:49:11.530 Are you really telling your people this? Yeah. And then 1034 00:49:11.570 --> 00:49:14.469 does someone above you get wind of it? And they're like, oh, yeah, 1035 00:49:14.750 --> 00:49:18.050 like this is like a Scientology like well Miscavige comes 1036 00:49:18.090 --> 00:49:18.670 and knocks on your. 1037 00:49:18.610 --> 00:49:21.030 Door for sure it was very much like don't quit 1038 00:49:21.429 --> 00:49:24.429 like okay understand you're not happy but do not quit 1039 00:49:24.449 --> 00:49:26.320 because if I as long as I'm still there it 1040 00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:28.780 doesn't really matter what I'm doing I'm holding the pyramid 1041 00:49:28.820 -->

00:49:31.760 in place right so my upline was like I understand 1042 00:49:31.780 --> 00:49:34.440 you feel that way totally fine you know just tell 1043 00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:36.599 your customers like I can help them out I'll help 1044 00:49:36.619 --> 00:49:38.099 your team you know what I mean so I'm still 1045 00:49:38.139 --> 00:49:41.110 there I'm not posting anything. I'm not messaging anyone. I, 1046 00:49:41.389 --> 00:49:44.329 I go into writing. I start going into recovery advocacy. 1047 00:49:44.409 --> 00:49:46.969 Like that's what I'm doing. And I kind of thought like, 1048 00:49:47.170 --> 00:49:49.949 I'll just put this on autopilot and still, you know, 1049 00:49:50.030 --> 00:49:51.329 collect a check till it dries up. 1050 00:49:51.590 --> 00:49:51.750 Right. 1051 00:49:51.789 --> 00:49:53.670 That's what I thought. I didn't think I would actually 1052 00:49:53.710 --> 00:49:56.809 like quit. And, and one thing she kept telling me 1053 00:49:56.869 --> 00:49:59.590 was like, you built this, you should continue to make 1054 00:49:59.630 --> 00:50:03.230 money off of it. And, and like I believed that 1055 00:50:03.250 --> 00:50:05.530 to some extent. And yet also I was like, it 1056 00:50:05.570 --> 00:50:08.590 was just the circumstances. And like, it was luck really 1057 00:50:08.630 --> 00:50:11.989 that I got in when I did. So that was all, 1058 00:50:12.010 --> 00:50:13.610 you know, my book came out, then COVID happened. 1059 00:50:14.050 --> 00:50:14.320 Yeah. 1060 00:50:14.980 --> 00:50:16.340 And all of a sudden I was home. I was 1061 00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:19.360 completely separated from the MLM. You know, we couldn't get 1062 00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:21.659 together for anything. We couldn't go to conventions or anything. 1063 00:50:21.699 --> 00:50:24.400 So there was that separation. I started listening to the 1064 00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:25.500 dream podcast. 1065 00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:28.110 So the dream podcast is, I was just, we're talking 1066 00:50:28.130 --> 00:50:30.489 about it. That is a really juicy one. It came 1067 00:50:30.530 --> 00:50:32.570 out a couple years ago. What I liked about it 1068 00:50:32.730 --> 00:50:36.570 is these people did, like, deep dive investigations on all 1069 00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:40.619 these different MLMs. Yeah. From, like, Mary Kay to Tupperware 1070 00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:43.719 to some that were, like, from the 80s. Yeah. And, like, 1071 00:50:43.739 --> 00:50:46.900 they remembered their aunt did it. And, I mean, I 1072 00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:48.340 don't know if I listen to every single episode, but 1073 00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:51.239 I listen to a lot. And it was really eye-opening 1074 00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:55.030 about how you sell the dream. And how some people 1075 00:50:55.090 --> 00:50:57.949 really get screwed over. Some are, like, funny, and it's 1076 00:50:58.030 --> 00:51:00.599 kind of a funny, like, oh, that time my mom 1077 00:51:00.619 --> 00:51:03.300

joined an MLM. Like, it's not all tragic. But some 1078 00:51:03.340 --> 00:51:04.039 of it gets. 1079 00:51:04.059 --> 00:51:04.980 Some of it is, yeah. 1080 00:51:05.219 --> 00:51:07.400 Some of the times it gets to a tragedy point. 1081 00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:08.300 Yeah. 1082 00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:09.360 Okay, so go on. 1083 00:51:09.579 --> 00:51:14.469 Yeah. So I listened to that. And honestly, I don't 1084 00:51:14.489 --> 00:51:16.510 know who recommended it to me. I don't know how 1085 00:51:16.570 --> 00:51:19.309 it came into my, you know, I was skeptical, right? Yeah. 1086 00:51:19.679 --> 00:51:21.170 And so I thought, well, I'll listen to this. And 1087 00:51:21.190 --> 00:51:23.730 I was kind of listening because I wanted to prove 1088 00:51:23.789 --> 00:51:26.530 that like my MLM was different, which is something that 1089 00:51:26.550 --> 00:51:28.309 a lot of people do. Like, especially if they see 1090 00:51:28.329 --> 00:51:29.949 this book, they're like, oh, well, my MLM is not 1091 00:51:29.969 --> 00:51:32.429 like that. But like, spoiler, they're all the same. So 1092 00:51:32.469 --> 00:51:34.780 I started listening and I'm like, well, that's exactly the same. 1093 00:51:35.059 --> 00:51:36.980 You know, we do that too. And the next one, 1094 00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:40.019 exactly the same. And there were so many parallels. So 1095 00:51:40.059 --> 00:51:42.360 then I started kind of diving deeper. And the other 1096 00:51:42.380 --> 00:51:45.880 thing that was happening was there was a lot of 1097 00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:48.559 just really predatory behavior during the pandemic. 1098 00:51:48.820 --> 00:51:49.199 Like what? 1099 00:51:49.400 --> 00:51:50.949 Like all of these women who are like, hey, you 1100 00:51:50.969 --> 00:51:55.769 lost your job, you know, join this MLM or, you know, 1101 00:51:55.889 --> 00:51:57.929 use your stimulus money for. 1102 00:51:57.949 --> 00:51:59.090 Stimulus money. 1103 00:51:59.389 --> 00:52:00.530 There was a lot of that. And actually. 1104 00:52:00.550 --> 00:52:03.130 So like when the checks would be dropped, they'd be like, hey, 1105 00:52:03.269 --> 00:52:06.670 today would be a great day to like DM 30 people. Yeah, exactly. 1106 00:52:06.769 --> 00:52:06.929 Yeah. 1107 00:52:06.949 --> 00:52:10.050 People can join you. We had scripts and it was 1108 00:52:10.090 --> 00:52:12.929 actually the FTC actually cracked down in like gave fines 1109 00:52:13.010 --> 00:52:15.389 to companies because they were doing this. And also there 1110 00:52:15.429 --> 00:52:19.099 was a lot of product misinformation, like buy our essential 1111 00:52:19.219 --> 00:52:22.719 oil and it will cure COVID or use our immune booster. 1112 00:52:22.900 --> 00:52:25.559 And so there was a lot of that just medical misinformation. 1113 00:52:26.179 --> 00:52:28.550 So that was, I was like, I can't be involved 1114 00:52:28.590 --> 00:52:31.769 in that. And then there was a lot of PPP 1115 00:52:31.809 -->

00:52:35.730 loan fraud. So, you know, the, it was the paycheck protection. 1116 00:52:35.789 --> 00:52:40.579 So like, say if you, You know, podcasting, like, went under, 1117 00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:42.739 and you had to pay your employee. Right, right. And 1118 00:52:42.760 --> 00:52:44.710 so it was, like, you know, helping you pay your employees. 1119 00:52:45.230 --> 00:52:48.070 That's what it was meant for. MLM reps were excluded 1120 00:52:48.110 --> 00:52:50.070 from it. Like, you could not do it if you 1121 00:52:50.090 --> 00:52:52.449 were an MLM rep. But plenty of people did. So 1122 00:52:52.489 --> 00:52:55.630 if you search any company, like, you can search Pampered 1123 00:52:55.650 --> 00:52:59.699 Chef or Modere or any MLM company, and you'll see 1124 00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:03.739 people come up who took out money with the parent 1125 00:53:03.780 --> 00:53:08.929 company name to, like, pay themselves. Mm-hmm. And there was 1126 00:53:08.969 --> 00:53:12.050 just so much at that point. And I was still 1127 00:53:12.550 --> 00:53:15.190 hitting the top title of the company. So here I 1128 00:53:15.250 --> 00:53:18.570 was doing jack shit. I was doing nothing. And I 1129 00:53:19.050 --> 00:53:20.590 was so grossed out by everything. And yet I was 1130 00:53:20.610 --> 00:53:24.079 still achieving. And my team was still like grinding and 1131 00:53:24.619 --> 00:53:26.679 not achieving. And so at that point, I was like, 1132 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:29.420 I'm out. And I fully just terminated my account. 1133 00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:30.280 And how did you do that? 1134 00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:33.280 I just had to send in a little form to 1135 00:53:33.340 --> 00:53:33.980 sign a form. 1136 00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:35.320 And what about the girl ahead of you? 1137 00:53:36.300 --> 00:53:38.760 She was not thrilled about it. 1138 00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:40.909 But she still gets money from the people below you 1139 00:53:40.949 --> 00:53:41.389 that stay. 1140 00:53:41.409 --> 00:53:43.969 So they all rolled up to her. Yeah, they rolled 1141 00:53:44.010 --> 00:53:47.210 up to her. So now she has the title I had. 1142 00:53:47.969 --> 00:53:48.230 Yeah. 1143 00:53:48.510 --> 00:53:50.530 But if you see on social media, it's like all 1144 00:53:50.550 --> 00:53:53.170 based on her hard work and everything and not because 1145 00:53:53.210 --> 00:53:54.500 her team rolled up. 1146 00:53:54.710 --> 00:53:56.769 And then at that point, she was like, well, who cares? 1147 00:53:56.789 --> 00:53:59.989 I'm going to get your people anyway. So maybe sometimes 1148 00:54:00.030 --> 00:54:01.440 people do want you to leave. 1149 00:54:01.539 --> 00:54:05.099 Oh, yeah. And there's definitely like buying out your downline or. 1150 00:54:05.679 --> 00:54:06.800 What does that mean? 1151 00:54:07.099 --> 00:54:09.920 Like basically you have someone who's like a me who 1152 00:54:10.500 --> 00:54:12.909 is like in the way and you could have people 1153

00:54:12.949 --> 00:54:14.349 direct to you who are working. 1154 00:54:14.469 --> 00:54:15.289 Who are into it still. 1155 00:54:15.349 --> 00:54:18.929 Yes. And so that would make your title higher and, 1156 00:54:19.389 --> 00:54:21.750 you know, you can basically pay them money so they leave. 1157 00:54:22.710 --> 00:54:24.030 Oh, are you bummed you didn't get paid? 1158 00:54:24.429 --> 00:54:26.880 No, because I knew, in fact, she offered. 1159 00:54:27.380 --> 00:54:27.719 Oh, she. 1160 00:54:28.420 --> 00:54:31.280 And I. How much did she offer? Like $ 80, 000. 1161 00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:31.239 Okay. 1162 00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:31.599 Yeah. 1163 00:54:33.219 --> 00:54:36.269 And at that point I was like. I knew I 1164 00:54:36.309 --> 00:54:38.110 wanted to talk about it. So I didn't want to 1165 00:54:38.150 --> 00:54:41.510 have to sign an NDA or anything like that. So 1166 00:54:41.550 --> 00:54:45.429 I'm like, no, I'm good. I'm just going to exit. 1167 00:54:45.570 --> 00:54:48.469 And so what are some of the response of people 1168 00:54:48.510 --> 00:54:51.409 knowing that you're writing about this? Maybe they're still in 1169 00:54:51.489 --> 00:54:54.829 something like this. Maybe they're recovering. maybe they really love 1170 00:54:54.989 --> 00:54:57.530 it and are pissed. Like, are you hearing from everybody 1171 00:54:57.590 --> 00:54:58.860 or what, what did you get mostly? 1172 00:54:58.889 --> 00:55:01.500 So it was really at first when I, when I quit. 1173 00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:04.480 And then when I published the announcement that my book 1174 00:55:04.500 --> 00:55:06.739 was coming out, it was like, Oh my God, how 1175 00:55:06.780 --> 00:55:09.559 could you do this? This is such a betrayal. So 1176 00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:12.480 basically anyone in the MLM, you know, kind of couldn't 1177 00:55:12.519 --> 00:55:14.920 talk to me anymore, but there are a lot of 1178 00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:16.699 people in who are like, Oh my gosh, thank you 1179 00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:19.139 for doing this. Like I see this, I see this, 1180 00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:22.239 this is gross, this is gross, but they're still involved. Um, 1181 00:55:22.619 --> 00:55:25.460 But in the last few days, what's been interesting is 1182 00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:27.909 a lot of MLM people are like, oh, my gosh, 1183 00:55:27.929 --> 00:55:29.630 I love the book. It's so good. I can't share 1184 00:55:29.670 --> 00:55:32.409 it on social media because my upline will be pissed 1185 00:55:32.449 --> 00:55:34.789 or the company will be pissed or whatever. Yeah. So 1186 00:55:34.829 --> 00:55:36.869 I think there's a lot in here that if you're 1187 00:55:36.929 --> 00:55:39.590 in an MLM, you will totally relate to. And I 1188 00:55:39.630 --> 00:55:44.309 think it's important, too, to know, like. There's different ways 1189 00:55:44.329 --> 00:55:45.329 to do things. Yeah. 1190 00:55:46.369 --> 00:55:48.170 And we were talking about the celebrity aspect,

which I 1191 00:55:48.190 --> 00:55:50.650 thought was really interesting. Because there are some of these 1192 00:55:50.670 --> 00:55:53.639 products that I'm like, why is this real housewife selling this? 1193 00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:59.260 And explain why that happens. Because I thought that was weird. 1194 00:55:59.300 --> 00:56:01.460 But then you made sense when we talked about it 1195 00:56:01.539 --> 00:56:02.920 off air. Tell me. 1196 00:56:02.980 --> 00:56:06.099 So if you're a celebrity, you have an immediate following. 1197 00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:09.099 You have all these people who are willing to do 1198 00:56:09.219 --> 00:56:13.000 whatever to be in proximity with you. So if you 1199 00:56:13.099 --> 00:56:17.760 join an MLM and they can join too, they're going 1200 00:56:17.780 --> 00:56:20.230 to join you. They're going to do whatever you're doing. 1201 00:56:20.269 --> 00:56:22.670 So it's like, oh, I'm going to pay $ 500 so 1202 00:56:22.809 --> 00:56:25.090 I can talk on the phone with the celebrity. I 1203 00:56:25.469 --> 00:56:27.769 can say I'm on her team. Like there's going to 1204 00:56:27.789 --> 00:56:29.849 be people who just pay the money just to be 1205 00:56:30.030 --> 00:56:33.210 close to that celebrity. And so like Real Housewives, you know, 1206 00:56:33.230 --> 00:56:36.000 the gal who's on Sister Wives. 1207 00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:36.559 Yes. 1208 00:56:36.579 --> 00:56:38.619 You know, like Britney Spears' mom. Like there's a lot 1209 00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:39.199 of people. 1210 00:56:39.219 --> 00:56:39.880 That did it. 1211 00:56:39.900 --> 00:56:40.420 That did it. Yeah. 1212 00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:40.659 Yeah. 1213 00:56:41.460 --> 00:56:42.840 Because they have an instant following. 1214 00:56:43.300 --> 00:56:43.619 Right. 1215 00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:43.960 Yeah. 1216 00:56:45.539 --> 00:56:49.920 I remember there was like a... There was this woman 1217 00:56:49.960 --> 00:56:54.300 who did... Was the valedictorian... Not valedictorian. The college speech. 1218 00:56:54.340 --> 00:56:55.570 What do you call it? The commencement speech. 1219 00:56:55.590 --> 00:56:56.280 Commencement speech, yeah. 1220 00:56:56.510 --> 00:57:00.030 At one of the schools I went to. And I 1221 00:57:00.050 --> 00:57:01.610 was like, why did this girl get picked? You know, 1222 00:57:01.630 --> 00:57:03.949 it's just because she like worked... She was a lawyer 1223 00:57:04.010 --> 00:57:08.570 and like worked for like Hillary Clinton or something. And 1224 00:57:08.590 --> 00:57:12.769 it was a really boring speech. And then... Afterwards, because 1225 00:57:12.789 --> 00:57:16.670 we were there because somebody, my friend's daughter was graduating. Afterwards, 1226 00:57:16.710 --> 00:57:20.389 like we were getting hit up as alumni because she 1227 00:57:20.429 --> 00:57:24.010 was also part of a cosmetic MLM. Oh, God. And 1228 00:57:24.050 --> 00:57:25.150 I'm like, really? 1229 00:57:25.170 --> 00:57:25.250 Yeah. 1230

00:57:25.889 --> 00:57:28.090 Like this is the commencement speaker. I mean, I was 1231 00:57:28.110 --> 00:57:32.030 just like. Tacky. Who went there for her own gain 1232 00:57:32.139 --> 00:57:35.400 of like, oh, now I'm in these Facebook groups of this, 1233 00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:38.039 you know, alumni of a bunch of women that, you know, 1234 00:57:38.059 --> 00:57:41.699 are great. you know, social and fun and have, you know, 1235 00:57:41.719 --> 00:57:45.579 some money and some brains and like, yeah, it's the perfect. Totally. 1236 00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:48.000 And you're told to do that. Like join affinity groups, 1237 00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:51.869 join mom's groups, join whatever biking groups, if you're, if 1238 00:57:51.889 --> 00:57:54.949 you're into that. And so, and then friend people. So like, 1239 00:57:54.969 --> 00:57:57.309 you're always looking to like increase your network. And then 1240 00:57:57.349 --> 00:58:01.130 those people see you post about your stupid products. And it's, yeah. 1241 00:58:01.210 --> 00:58:04.250 What about when somebody comes in there? Like my husband says, 1242 00:58:04.309 --> 00:58:07.239 I can't do this anymore because I haven't made any money. 1243 00:58:07.940 --> 00:58:11.829 And I've already put $ 12, 000 into it. And, you know, 1244 00:58:11.849 --> 00:58:16.309 we fight about it. And what would be your party 1245 00:58:16.349 --> 00:58:17.429 line to say to that person? 1246 00:58:17.789 --> 00:58:23.099 I have heard people tell their downline to threaten divorce 1247 00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:28.659 because of not being supportive. So that's considered not supportive, right? Like, oh, 1248 00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:29.559 you don't believe in. 1249 00:58:29.539 --> 00:58:31.860 What I'm doing. You're a suppressed person in Scientology. 1250 00:58:31.880 --> 00:58:32.079 Yes. 1251 00:58:32.619 --> 00:58:35.909 So it's really seen as like, well, you don't, you 1252 00:58:35.949 --> 00:58:37.789 don't support me. You don't love me. So there's scripts 1253 00:58:37.849 --> 00:58:40.409 around that. Like, here's, you know, here's something to say, 1254 00:58:40.610 --> 00:58:43.519 like one more month, then we'll qualify for this, or 1255 00:58:43.539 --> 00:58:46.059 this is how it's improving my life or, or whatever. 1256 00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:48.920 There's ways to talk around every single objection. 1257 00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:52.530 Yeah. Yeah. I think in the Lou, is it Lou LaRue? 1258 00:58:52.590 --> 00:58:53.150 Lou LaRue. 1259 00:58:53.190 --> 00:58:53.349 Yeah. 1260 00:58:53.489 --> 00:58:56.469 Lou LaRue. I think in that one was where, or 1261 00:58:56.630 --> 00:58:59.820 one of the docs or something where they were like, um, 1262 00:59:01.550 --> 00:59:04.750 Open a credit card line without your husband's knowledge or 1263 00:59:04.809 --> 00:59:08.329 like do all these things behind your husband's back financially 1264 00:59:08.349 --> 00:59:09.289 to stay in it. 1265 00:59:09.309 --> 00:59:09.829 Mm-hmm. 1266 00:59:10.269 --> 00:59:14.530 And I do think a girlfriend cult, whether it's an 1267 00:59:14.710 --> 00:59:19.219 MLM or just– it can be really bad. You know, 1268 00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:21.420 like even if it's just like– I love this thing 1269 00:59:21.460 --> 00:59:23.599 I've talked about on the show before where people– this 1270 00:59:23.659 --> 00:59:26.039 woman wrote a book of how she's like, you know, 1271 00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:28.079 all these women for so many years that would tell 1272 00:59:28.099 --> 00:59:30.460 their girlfriends at brunch– Kick him to the curb. You 1273 00:59:30.480 --> 00:59:33.199 could do better. Come on, girl. It's seen as supportive, 1274 00:59:33.239 --> 00:59:36.019 but in some ways it's like holding people back because 1275 00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:39.469 it's like, why? Wait a minute. You know, who else 1276 00:59:39.550 --> 00:59:41.760 is out there, lady? Take a minute. I don't know. 1277 00:59:41.820 --> 00:59:44.670 Like just so it's a weird thing. And then you're 1278 00:59:44.690 --> 00:59:47.750 always like, well, my girlfriend said and, you know, and 1279 00:59:47.829 --> 00:59:49.670 now you not only have one girl from it, you 1280 00:59:49.690 --> 00:59:52.269 have like several that are, you know, saying your husband's 1281 00:59:52.329 --> 00:59:52.710 a dick. 1282 00:59:52.789 --> 00:59:53.010 Yep. 1283 00:59:53.190 --> 00:59:55.329 And so you're in. That's why it's culty, right? 1284 00:59:55.369 --> 00:59:55.489 Yeah. 1285 00:59:55.510 --> 00:59:58.269 Because then you're in this. environment where everyone's saying the 1286 00:59:58.309 --> 01:00:00.809 same thing, doing the same thing. You feel like it's supportive. 1287 01:00:01.210 --> 01:00:03.110 You feel like these are the supportive people. So anyone 1288 01:00:03.190 --> 01:00:04.880 out here, even if it's your mom, even if it's 1289 01:00:04.889 --> 01:00:08.820 your husband who is not like believing in you is, 1290 01:00:08.940 --> 01:00:11.780 is gonna feel like they're wrong and you're right. 1291 01:00:12.900 --> 01:00:13.079 Yeah. 1292 01:00:13.800 --> 01:00:14.980 Were there mother-daughter teams? 1293 01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:18.860 Oh, totally. There were mother-daughter teams. There were teams of 1294 01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:21.889 like entire families. There was, there was a lot of that. 1295 01:00:22.650 --> 01:00:25.010 We talked a little bit about this, but was there 1296 01:00:25.289 --> 01:00:28.349 some real red flags, aha moments that you were just like, 1297 01:00:29.550 --> 01:00:30.030 I cannot. 1298 01:00:30.489 --> 01:00:32.800 Yeah, there were red flags all along the way. Like 1299 01:00:32.820 --> 01:00:34.679 they're easy to see looking back, of course. 1300 01:00:34.739 --> 01:00:34.980 Yeah. 1301 01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:39.599 But a lot of the like you're not allowed to 1302 01:00:39.639 --> 01:00:43.119 be negative. So it's this toxic positivity of, you know, 1303 01:00:43.139

--> 01:00:45.219 you have your team Facebook page where everyone who's in 1304 01:00:45.260 --> 01:00:48.420 your downline is on there and nobody's allowed to complain. Yeah. 1305 01:00:48.820 --> 01:00:52.840 Because if you complain, that might spread. And, you know, 1306 01:00:52.860 --> 01:00:56.119 you're told, like, what to post on social media. You have, like, 1307 01:00:56.159 --> 01:00:57.780 a list of things you can and can't post about. 1308 01:00:58.139 --> 01:00:59.980 And you're told not to be, like— What can you 1309 01:01:00.059 --> 01:01:01.280 can and cannot post about? 1310 01:01:01.300 --> 01:01:03.860 Well, you, like, are given certain pictures you can post 1311 01:01:03.929 --> 01:01:06.139 and certain language you can post because you don't want 1312 01:01:06.159 --> 01:01:06.719 to— Certain. 1313 01:01:06.550 --> 01:01:08.369 Pictures, like, that you would take with your family or, like, 1314 01:01:08.550 --> 01:01:09.309 actual stills? 1315 01:01:09.409 --> 01:01:11.949 Well, yeah, like, of products and stuff like that, right, 1316 01:01:11.989 --> 01:01:17.590 that are, like, approved. And then you can't make income claims, technically. But, like, 1317 01:01:17.829 --> 01:01:20.369 every post you see really is an income claim. It's like, oh, 1318 01:01:20.389 --> 01:01:23.719 I'm on this trip. Look at me. I'm working from 1319 01:01:23.739 --> 01:01:25.889 the beach like that's that is still an income claim. 1320 01:01:26.110 --> 01:01:26.860 Yeah. 1321 01:01:27.489 --> 01:01:30.869 But one of the really culty things is like, you know, 1322 01:01:30.929 --> 01:01:34.050 don't be negative. Don't post on social media about like 1323 01:01:34.429 --> 01:01:38.329 how much you hate your job. Don't post about that 1324 01:01:38.349 --> 01:01:40.510 your skin is bad because people will think it's the products. 1325 01:01:40.809 --> 01:01:44.349 Don't post anything like politically because you'll alienate half your audience. 1326 01:01:44.630 --> 01:01:44.849 Right. 1327 01:01:44.869 --> 01:01:47.849 You're not allowed to even be a person. You're you're 1328 01:01:47.889 --> 01:01:51.590 this caricature of. The MLM, especially the higher you get, 1329 01:01:51.969 --> 01:01:55.489 you're like representing the company in a way that you 1330 01:01:55.550 --> 01:01:56.909 can't even be yourself. 1331 01:01:58.190 --> 01:02:02.130 I mean, were you so freaked out when you saw 1332 01:02:02.849 --> 01:02:07.210 about the murder of the guy, the Colorado? I can't 1333 01:02:07.250 --> 01:02:08.239 remember the name. 1334 01:02:08.360 --> 01:02:08.590 Yes. 1335 01:02:10.030 --> 01:02:12.420 The Colorado man, he murdered. 1336 01:02:12.199 --> 01:02:13.500 His wife and two daughters. 1337 01:02:13.940 --> 01:02:17.340 And she was hardcore in the MLM. She'd just come 1338 01:02:17.380 --> 01:02:22.880 back from a trip from Phoenix. And her product was Thrive. 1339 01:02:22.949 --> 01:02:27.519 And it was like energy, vitamins, patches to like kill, 1340 01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:32.199 make your mood. And everything was about image. And even 1341 01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:36.150 possibly having that third child was something that looked like 1342 01:02:36.190 --> 01:02:38.710 the ultimate success and perfect family that you have two 1343 01:02:38.769 --> 01:02:41.889 girls and now he gets a boy. And when they, that, 1344 01:02:42.679 --> 01:02:47.500 documentary when they show about– can you just look that 1345 01:02:47.679 --> 01:02:49.440 crime up so I know the names and the documentary 1346 01:02:49.460 --> 01:02:51.840 because I know people are going to be asking for it. 1347 01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:53.920 And the guy was cute and she was cute, but 1348 01:02:53.940 --> 01:02:55.960 they were living beyond their means. And he had like 1349 01:02:56.039 --> 01:02:59.260 a steady job but like kind of a capped kind 1350 01:02:59.280 --> 01:03:01.440 of salary. And then she was doing all this. 1351 01:03:01.500 --> 01:03:01.659 Yeah. 1352 01:03:01.900 --> 01:03:04.059 And she was getting so into it that that was 1353 01:03:04.139 --> 01:03:06.090 causing them to be a lot in debt. 1354 01:03:06.110 --> 01:03:06.409 Mm-hmm. 1355 01:03:06.929 --> 01:03:10.170 But everything on her social media was exactly what they 1356 01:03:10.429 --> 01:03:14.389 told her to do, how to present this image. Chris Watts. 1357 01:03:14.510 --> 01:03:15.690 Shanann Watts, yes. 1358 01:03:15.710 --> 01:03:18.050 Shanann, Shananna Watts. Was it Shanann? 1359 01:03:18.110 --> 01:03:18.780 Shanann, yeah. 1360 01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:23.840 Shanann and Chris Watts. And then Chris Watts, even when 1361 01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:28.000 she films, telling him that she's pregnant. And at this point, 1362 01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:30.599 we know that she's already, I think he already had 1363 01:03:30.619 --> 01:03:31.659 a girlfriend at that point. 1364 01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:33.420 Suburban Nightmare. 1365 01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:33.599 Yeah. 1366 01:03:33.619 --> 01:03:34.820 Oh, the show is Suburban Nightmare. 1367 01:03:34.840 --> 01:03:34.960 Yeah. 1368 01:03:35.710 --> 01:03:37.449 I mean, there's a lot on it, but it is, 1369 01:03:37.510 --> 01:03:40.369 if you're not that familiar or you want to revisit, 1370 01:03:40.510 --> 01:03:44.969 it is like, I really think that had so, I mean, granted, 1371 01:03:45.030 --> 01:03:47.840 nothing makes somebody murder their wife and kids, but it was, 1372 01:03:48.010 --> 01:03:52.599 it was an element to their story of this perfect 1373 01:03:52.659 --> 01:03:56.059 life and not really being honest with each other and 1374 01:03:56.119 --> 01:03:59.579 not being, and being sucked into this whole thing. 1375 01:03:59.699 --> 01:03:59.980 Yeah. 1376 01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:02.820 And I mean, the entire documentary is like, because she 1377 01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:05.570 had so much on social media. You know, she had 1378 01:04:05.650 --> 01:04:08.050 she had posted. And that's

what you have to do. 1379 01:04:08.340 --> 01:04:13.280 You have to your entire life, like your whole image 1380 01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:16.059 is the company. And, you know, you've got to go 1381 01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:17.460 in your stories all the time because you've got to 1382 01:04:17.500 --> 01:04:19.539 stay relevant and you've got to show your kids. And 1383 01:04:19.780 --> 01:04:22.199 that's one thing I started to get really uncomfortable with. 1384 01:04:22.719 --> 01:04:24.340 Again, they encourage you to show your kids. 1385 01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:27.260 Oh, yeah. You're very encouraged, you know, because if you 1386 01:04:27.300 --> 01:04:30.039 just post like products, you know, you want people to 1387 01:04:30.159 --> 01:04:33.679 join you. It's you that you want, like you're selling yourself. 1388 01:04:34.340 --> 01:04:34.619 Right. 1389 01:04:34.880 --> 01:04:37.369 So it's almost like this weird influencer thing. 1390 01:04:37.690 --> 01:04:38.690 But, you know. 1391 01:04:38.710 --> 01:04:43.269 You're not an influencer. You're selling for this MLM. And 1392 01:04:43.550 --> 01:04:46.760 I didn't like constantly like having to be on stage 1393 01:04:46.800 --> 01:04:48.980 and put my kids on stage. And it's like anywhere 1394 01:04:49.019 --> 01:04:51.380 I went, I'd have to take a picture. And and 1395 01:04:51.719 --> 01:04:55.210 I that's one thing that I, you know, stopped doing. And, 1396 01:04:55.230 --> 01:04:57.389 you know, looking back at it now, like when Facebook 1397 01:04:57.429 --> 01:05:00.130 memories pop up, it's just like, God, it's so sad 1398 01:05:00.150 --> 01:05:01.449 that I felt like I had to be behind the 1399 01:05:01.469 --> 01:05:04.880 camera instead of like enjoying what I was doing because 1400 01:05:04.909 --> 01:05:08.340 it was all to post this aspirational stuff to get 1401 01:05:08.360 --> 01:05:09.059 people to join. 1402 01:05:09.980 --> 01:05:12.659 Yeah. I mean, even, you know, with my business as 1403 01:05:12.699 --> 01:05:15.480 a comedian, a podcaster and everything, social media is such 1404 01:05:15.500 --> 01:05:18.039 a big part of it. And I'm really grateful I 1405 01:05:18.099 --> 01:05:20.139 couldn't do it without it. I mean, there's a reason 1406 01:05:20.230 --> 01:05:22.829 why we can do all these things because we have that. 1407 01:05:23.389 --> 01:05:24.739 But. Yeah. 1408 01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:28.500 I mean, there's times where now I'm like, look, I 1409 01:05:28.539 --> 01:05:30.920 know that we, you know, got to get at least 1410 01:05:31.099 --> 01:05:33.980 one photo. Yeah. So I'm like, the minute the party 1411 01:05:34.019 --> 01:05:37.079 starts or whatever, I'm like, let's take the photo. Do 1412 01:05:37.380 --> 01:05:39.579 it now. And then I go, I'll look at these 1413 01:05:39.659 --> 01:05:42.780 later tonight. Yeah. I'll send you some if you like them. 1414 01:05:43.579 --> 01:05:44.420 And I'm like, that's it. 1415 01:05:44.539 --> 01:05:44.739 Yeah. 1416 01:05:44.900 --> 01:05:48.059 Because I'm like, I want to enjoy the Memorial Day party, 1417 01:05:48.119 --> 01:05:49.699 but I also am not stupid. 1418 01:05:49.719 --> 01:05:50.059 Yeah. 1419 01:05:50.360 --> 01:05:52.840 And if my friend who is a comedian is also 1420 01:05:52.860 --> 01:05:55.980 going to be on my show next week and, And 1421 01:05:56.260 --> 01:05:58.219 we do it for each other. We have to post, 1422 01:05:58.260 --> 01:06:00.739 you know. But I think about just like a regular 1423 01:06:00.820 --> 01:06:04.789 mom that's now sucked into this and where their kids 1424 01:06:04.829 --> 01:06:07.050 are a thing. Like my kids, I really never featured 1425 01:06:07.070 --> 01:06:11.360 my kids much. When they were really little, I didn't 1426 01:06:11.420 --> 01:06:13.960 because I thought that was weird. And then I was like, God, 1427 01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:15.780 I should have exploited them more. Then I was like, 1428 01:06:16.179 --> 01:06:18.539 then they were, like, not into it. Now they don't care. 1429 01:06:18.559 --> 01:06:19.199 Now they don't care, yeah. 1430 01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:22.199 So if there's something funny that's happening, I'm like, okay, fine. 1431 01:06:22.219 --> 01:06:24.090 And you can ask, right? They're old enough that you 1432 01:06:24.119 --> 01:06:26.610 can ask. I think it's with little kids and stuff, like, 1433 01:06:26.630 --> 01:06:32.349 they don't have your, like, they can't give you permission. And, like, 1434 01:06:32.429 --> 01:06:35.449 I use pictures of my kids in, like, my convention presentations, like, 1435 01:06:35.489 --> 01:06:37.070 to make it cute. 1436 01:06:36.670 --> 01:06:39.010 And, like, Now I'm just like, why? So then you 1437 01:06:39.050 --> 01:06:40.349 were like a speaker. 1438 01:06:40.369 --> 01:06:40.550 Oh, yeah. 1439 01:06:40.590 --> 01:06:41.010 You were that. 1440 01:06:41.670 --> 01:06:41.880 Yep. 1441 01:06:42.139 --> 01:06:43.579 And what was your speech like? 1442 01:06:43.639 --> 01:06:45.920 So this is the other thing that happened. So once 1443 01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:46.599 I got sober. 1444 01:06:46.619 --> 01:06:47.219 Yeah. 1445 01:06:47.780 --> 01:06:50.699 So MLMs are all about the sob story, right? They're 1446 01:06:50.900 --> 01:06:52.280 all about like, I joined. 1447 01:06:52.300 --> 01:06:53.860 I feel like your drinking wasn't that bad. 1448 01:06:54.219 --> 01:06:54.610 Oh, God. 1449 01:06:54.639 --> 01:06:56.469 It was really bad. I'll give you my first book 1450 01:06:56.510 --> 01:06:58.150 and then you can read that and you'll be like, yep, 1451 01:06:58.530 --> 01:07:00.250 you were a shit show. 1452 01:07:00.309 --> 01:07:03.170 So you were like, you had like blackout? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1453 01:07:03.190 --> 01:07:04.570 Okay. Like I was a, yeah. 1454 01:07:05.210 --> 01:07:05.429 Okay. 1455 01:07:05.449 --> 01:07:06.969 And nobody else really knew how bad it was. Just 1456 01:07:06.989 --> 01:07:08.349 because you

were like, I went to. 1457 01:07:08.320 --> 01:07:09.980 Places and there was champagne. I'm like, I don't even 1458 01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:10.980 get buzzed off champagne. 1459 01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:12.400 Oh, no. So I don't even know what you're talking about. Yeah. 1460 01:07:12.519 --> 01:07:14.559 But like, I drank like before and after. Like, I 1461 01:07:14.599 --> 01:07:15.039 drank a lot. 1462 01:07:15.099 --> 01:07:15.739 Okay. 1463 01:07:16.260 --> 01:07:19.239 So the other thing that happened was, yeah. 1464 01:07:19.260 --> 01:07:20.139 The convention story. 1465 01:07:20.199 --> 01:07:22.090 Yes. So sob stories are a big thing. 1466 01:07:22.119 --> 01:07:22.929 Okay. 1467 01:07:23.090 --> 01:07:25.489 And because like, the reason I joined. 1468 01:07:25.510 --> 01:07:29.110 Same with like getting like American Idol or America's Got Talent. 1469 01:07:29.130 --> 01:07:31.710 They always want you to have a story about your 1470 01:07:31.730 --> 01:07:34.610 dad had cancer or you lost a limb. 1471 01:07:34.699 --> 01:07:34.880 Yeah. 1472 01:07:35.320 --> 01:07:37.789 Or people never thought you'd be able to speak and 1473 01:07:37.829 --> 01:07:38.650 now you can sing. 1474 01:07:38.989 --> 01:07:41.150 Or like even my like, I was a sad stay-at-home 1475 01:07:41.170 --> 01:07:42.989 mom and now I have this business, right? 1476 01:07:43.230 --> 01:07:44.329 So that was yours? 1477 01:07:44.650 --> 01:07:47.369 Well, no, it was until I got sober. And then 1478 01:07:47.449 --> 01:07:51.739 the company's like, ooh, you've got this great story. You 1479 01:07:52.179 --> 01:07:55.159 got sober and you overcame so much. So then that 1480 01:07:55.199 --> 01:07:56.960 became part of like the shtick. 1481 01:07:57.420 --> 01:07:57.659 Okay. 1482 01:07:58.460 --> 01:08:00.880 You know, this business was brought into my life and, 1483 01:08:01.159 --> 01:08:04.510 you know, led me to people who helped me get sober. 1484 01:08:04.590 --> 01:08:06.489 And now I'm, you know, nine months sober or whatever. 1485 01:08:06.510 --> 01:08:08.869 Like I was asked to speak about it. And it's 1486 01:08:08.949 --> 01:08:12.090 really hard because like, I felt very honored and, you know, 1487 01:08:12.130 --> 01:08:15.530 you're taught in early recovery, like be of service, share 1488 01:08:15.550 --> 01:08:17.689 your story. And so for me, I was like, okay, 1489 01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:20.119 that's what I'm doing. But it was done in a 1490 01:08:20.199 --> 01:08:23.380 way that was very, like, I felt exploited, right? I 1491 01:08:23.420 --> 01:08:25.720 felt like my story was exploited. And So as time 1492 01:08:25.739 --> 01:08:28.420 went on, like that's, I felt like I didn't want 1493 01:08:28.460 --> 01:08:31.899 to do that and I couldn't do that anymore. So, um, 1494 01:08:32.100 --> 01:08:34.579 so yeah, I was, I, I was a speaker at convention. 1495 01:08:34.600 --> 01:08:37.619 I was like a keynote speaker and you know, was 1496 01:08:38.000 -->

01:08:40.619 everybody knew who I was. I was like the corporate darling. 1497 01:08:41.600 --> 01:08:46.310 And so when you, um, a couple of questions. So 1498 01:08:46.369 --> 01:08:49.229 speaking of the corporate darling, there is a, uh, like 1499 01:08:49.369 --> 01:08:52.140 I was watching, um, Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. 1500 01:08:52.760 --> 01:08:57.029 And her husband, I believe, was like an executive with 1501 01:08:57.229 --> 01:08:58.109 some type of MLM. 1502 01:08:58.850 --> 01:08:59.789 Okay. 1503 01:08:59.909 --> 01:09:04.069 Whitney Roses. And then they let him go because they 1504 01:09:04.090 --> 01:09:07.229 did this ridiculous scene where they were in their underwear 1505 01:09:08.340 --> 01:09:11.579 like putting paint on each other's naked bodies. And they said, 1506 01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:14.140 this just isn't the image of this like Mormon MLM 1507 01:09:14.199 --> 01:09:14.939 whatever thing. 1508 01:09:14.960 --> 01:09:15.060 Yeah. 1509 01:09:17.539 --> 01:09:19.890 Is there ever a place where someone like you that 1510 01:09:19.930 --> 01:09:23.909 would be offered, because you're such a great speaker, you know, 1511 01:09:24.069 --> 01:09:27.439 now we will buy your upline, but we want you 1512 01:09:27.449 --> 01:09:29.300 to make $ 250, 000, $ 300, 000 a year and just be an executive. 1513 01:09:32.079 --> 01:09:33.119 Are there those people? 1514 01:09:33.140 --> 01:09:33.340 Yeah. 1515 01:09:33.380 --> 01:09:36.819 I mean, they're all corporations, right? MLMs are all corporations. 1516 01:09:36.939 --> 01:09:39.939 And the people, you know, the CEO, CFO, the VP, 1517 01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:43.279 like they're making lots of money. Okay. And it's, you know, 1518 01:09:43.319 --> 01:09:45.279 then a few people at the top of the pyramid, 1519 01:09:45.319 --> 01:09:48.359 the contractors are making money and everybody else is grinding. 1520 01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:48.640 Okay. 1521 01:09:49.060 --> 01:09:52.899 So it wouldn't behoove them to offer me a corporate 1522 01:09:52.920 --> 01:09:56.930 position when I'm already grinding. Like I'm selling the dream, right? Yeah. 1523 01:09:57.420 --> 01:09:59.380 So it's not that they couldn't. It's just, like, they wouldn't. 1524 01:09:59.680 --> 01:10:00.439 Yeah. Yeah. 1525 01:10:00.539 --> 01:10:04.130 That's where they want people is in the pyramid. Mm-hmm. 1526 01:10:04.250 --> 01:10:07.329 There's only room for a couple of corporate people. But, yeah, 1527 01:10:07.409 --> 01:10:08.590 everyone else is a contractor. 1528 01:10:09.569 --> 01:10:13.930 Okay. Yeah. So when you did leave, did you lose 1529 01:10:13.989 --> 01:10:16.449 followers and stuff? Did they, all the people that were 1530 01:10:16.489 --> 01:10:17.979 under you, like, weird? 1531 01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:18.340 Oh, yeah. 1532 01:10:18.520 --> 01:10:18.680 Yeah. 1533 01:10:18.699 --> 01:10:20.619 I mean, there were some people who were, like, so 1534 01:10:20.779 --> 01:10:24.500 between leaving and, like, announcing I was writing a book. Yeah. 1535 01:10:24.520 --> 01:10:26.100 A lot of people were more understanding. 1536 01:10:26.119 --> 01:10:26.199 Yeah. 1537 01:10:26.529 --> 01:10:28.109 And then when I wanted to talk about it, a 1538 01:10:28.470 --> 01:10:32.029 little less understanding. So, yeah, it was like a don't, 1539 01:10:32.069 --> 01:10:35.050 you can't talk to Emily anymore, unfriend, blah. 1540 01:10:35.090 --> 01:10:39.560 They were told that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And was 1541 01:10:39.600 --> 01:10:40.079 that hard? 1542 01:10:41.020 --> 01:10:43.560 Yes and no. Because I feel like I had a 1543 01:10:43.600 --> 01:10:45.859 very long period of exiting and I had talked to 1544 01:10:45.899 --> 01:10:48.300 a lot of people about it. So I had my people. 1545 01:10:48.500 --> 01:10:50.479 Like the friends I brought in are still my friends. 1546 01:10:50.750 --> 01:10:53.409 Even the friends who are still in, you know, still 1547 01:10:53.430 --> 01:10:56.500 my friends. You know, I have friends who are still 1548 01:10:56.659 --> 01:11:00.079 at the very top who, you know, again, like it 1549 01:11:00.100 --> 01:11:04.060 didn't change our friendship. But by and large, most people, 1550 01:11:04.420 --> 01:11:06.899 you know, they can't talk to me anymore because what 1551 01:11:06.939 --> 01:11:10.270 I'm saying is like they can't listen to what I'm 1552 01:11:10.310 --> 01:11:11.529 saying and still do what they're doing. 1553 01:11:12.050 --> 01:11:12.250 Right. 1554 01:11:12.310 --> 01:11:14.329 Like it's in direct opposition. 1555 01:11:15.090 --> 01:11:19.069 And when so when you start watching these shows about 1556 01:11:19.520 --> 01:11:23.079 real religious cults as well as MLMs, Because I say, 1557 01:11:23.159 --> 01:11:25.840 I swear to God, I think Netflix alone just like 1558 01:11:26.039 --> 01:11:28.720 kind of killed organized religion to some extent for people. 1559 01:11:29.159 --> 01:11:30.760 You see enough of these things and you're like, what 1560 01:11:30.779 --> 01:11:33.409 the hell have I been fed? And same thing with 1561 01:11:33.510 --> 01:11:39.109 something like MLMs. Do you feel that, like, have you 1562 01:11:39.149 --> 01:11:42.050 had people that are like calling from a closet of 1563 01:11:42.130 --> 01:11:44.029 just like, I want to get out. I don't know 1564 01:11:44.060 --> 01:11:44.600 what to do. 1565 01:11:44.939 --> 01:11:47.859 I've had so many people reach out. So many people. 1566 01:11:48.609 --> 01:11:50.510 I mean, when I announced the book, I was like, 1567 01:11:50.810 --> 01:11:53.489 it was very validating because I knew I'd get a 1568 01:11:53.510 --> 01:11:57.770 bunch of hate mail. And it was mostly people who 1569 01:11:57.800 --> 01:12:00.720 were like, oh my gosh, this happened to me, this 1570 01:12:00.739 --> 01:12:02.260 happened to me. And since the book has come out, 1571 01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:07.819 which it's been a day, it's just been all

positive messages. Like, 1572 01:12:08.079 --> 01:12:09.960 I could have written this part of your story. I 1573 01:12:09.979 --> 01:12:12.859 could have written this. I was so embarrassed for getting involved. 1574 01:12:12.939 --> 01:12:15.229 It ruined this relationship. It ruined this relationship. People don't 1575 01:12:15.270 --> 01:12:16.119 talk to me anymore anymore. 1576 01:12:16.489 --> 01:12:18.569 And people don't talk to people because they sucked them 1577 01:12:18.810 --> 01:12:22.250 in to something that turned out not to be profitable 1578 01:12:22.289 --> 01:12:22.649 for them. 1579 01:12:22.829 --> 01:12:24.090 And then they're blamed for it. 1580 01:12:24.430 --> 01:12:24.689 Right. 1581 01:12:24.810 --> 01:12:28.810 So that's the really, really crappy part about it. 1582 01:12:28.810 --> 01:12:31.289 Yeah, you're right. It's why sometimes people are like, oh, 1583 01:12:31.310 --> 01:12:33.810 do you have a good pool contractor? And I'm like, yeah, 1584 01:12:33.989 --> 01:12:35.250 but I don't know if he'll be good for you. 1585 01:12:35.430 --> 01:12:36.409 Yeah. 1586 01:12:36.550 --> 01:12:38.909 I mean, it's the same thing of referring someone. So 1587 01:12:38.949 --> 01:12:42.130 this is like the ultimate referral. You refer them into 1588 01:12:42.229 --> 01:12:46.359 a career that costs them money, and then they– referred 1589 01:12:46.420 --> 01:12:48.359 people so it's like yeah you are the one to 1590 01:12:48.399 --> 01:12:48.920 blame if it. 1591 01:12:48.899 --> 01:12:52.180 Didn't work and the you know the statistics on it's 1592 01:12:52.199 --> 01:12:54.819 like most people will never make a dime and so 1593 01:12:54.850 --> 01:12:57.069 and and you're just so willing not to look at 1594 01:12:57.130 --> 01:12:59.829 that because again you trust this friend who's and you 1595 01:12:59.869 --> 01:13:01.689 think well she made it so i can make it 1596 01:13:01.750 --> 01:13:05.590 too you just have that hope but it's it's really 1597 01:13:05.649 --> 01:13:09.720 hard because you also you develop these friendships and then 1598 01:13:09.770 --> 01:13:13.760 when you leave it's sometimes people stay in because the 1599 01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:17.399 known is is easier than the unknown. It's like, I'd 1600 01:13:17.439 --> 01:13:20.210 rather stay in and lose money than leave and lose friendships. 1601 01:13:21.289 --> 01:13:23.350 Or I'd rather, you know what I mean? Like that. 1602 01:13:23.590 --> 01:13:23.789 Yeah. 1603 01:13:23.829 --> 01:13:25.449 And I also think that's also really sad when they 1604 01:13:25.489 --> 01:13:28.989 go after like military wives and even Mormon moms and stuff, 1605 01:13:29.029 --> 01:13:33.399 because it's, especially with Mormon moms, it's, you know, encouraged 1606 01:13:33.420 --> 01:13:36.140 that you stay home with your kids and everything. So 1607 01:13:36.180 --> 01:13:39.140 this is the perfect thing. And also they just, they're 1608 01:13:39.239 --> 01:13:40.890 used to rejection. You know, if they have to go 1609 01:13:40.949 --> 01:13:45.739 on that To your mission, trying to knock on doors 1610 01:13:45.810 --> 01:13:47.789 and recruit people. Like, that's why I think they are 1611 01:13:47.850 --> 01:13:51.250 successful business people because nothing bothers them. They just keep 1612 01:13:51.329 --> 01:13:53.810 chugging along. So I'm like, yeah, no wonder it's like 1613 01:13:54.390 --> 01:13:55.970 successful for you or whatever. 1614 01:13:56.069 --> 01:13:57.970 Well, and there's a reason that there's a lot of 1615 01:13:58.109 --> 01:14:02.060 MLM people in church communities because they're already, and you know, 1616 01:14:02.159 --> 01:14:04.140 if you're in a church community, like go to town, 1617 01:14:04.220 --> 01:14:06.060 like whatever you want to believe or do, that's great. 1618 01:14:06.609 --> 01:14:09.050 But they're already their own closed environments. And so if 1619 01:14:09.109 --> 01:14:13.079 you're worshiping, believing in proximity with these people who are 1620 01:14:13.100 --> 01:14:14.619 doing the same thing, and then all of a sudden 1621 01:14:14.640 --> 01:14:19.180 they're selling collagen pudding or whatever, you're more likely to be, 1622 01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:20.920 you're more vulnerable to that. 1623 01:14:21.100 --> 01:14:23.569 So when my kid was little, I just remember we'd 1624 01:14:24.050 --> 01:14:26.890 had some activity and sometimes there was this mom there. 1625 01:14:27.569 --> 01:14:30.109 And she was just like, you know, Heather, I've been 1626 01:14:30.170 --> 01:14:33.949 thinking about how much you travel. And I really want 1627 01:14:33.989 --> 01:14:36.970 you to try... Like this vitamin thing. I think you 1628 01:14:37.010 --> 01:14:40.260 will absolutely love it. And it was something that I 1629 01:14:40.310 --> 01:14:42.720 think I heard my friend talk about. I'm like, is 1630 01:14:42.760 --> 01:14:45.399 this an MLM? And my friend was like, yes, but 1631 01:14:45.500 --> 01:14:47.300 I don't sell it. But I did buy it and 1632 01:14:47.319 --> 01:14:50.939 I do like it. And I mean, she was harassing 1633 01:14:50.960 --> 01:14:53.329 me so much that I was like. all right, I'm 1634 01:14:53.350 --> 01:14:55.640 just going to give her $ 200 because I just, I honestly, 1635 01:14:55.649 --> 01:14:59.060 I can't keep going back to this thing. And then 1636 01:14:59.500 --> 01:15:01.220 my husband, I was like, knew that my husband would 1637 01:15:01.239 --> 01:15:03.380 be like, what the fuck? You don't even take vitamins. 1638 01:15:03.399 --> 01:15:05.800 What are you talking about? Like whatever it is. So 1639 01:15:05.840 --> 01:15:07.640 I finally was just had to be really firm and 1640 01:15:07.680 --> 01:15:12.560 I'm like, no, I'm not interested. And I mean, you know, 1641 01:15:12.600 --> 01:15:14.859 that's the rejection, whatever. But I was like, oh, she 1642 01:15:14.890 --> 01:15:17.590 was probably so excited to try to say

like, I 1643 01:15:17.689 --> 01:15:18.789 did what you told me. 1644 01:15:18.810 --> 01:15:18.880 Yep. 1645 01:15:19.390 --> 01:15:21.989 Boss babe. And I got the nerve to talk to 1646 01:15:22.010 --> 01:15:24.909 this mom and like, and I've been approached so many 1647 01:15:25.029 --> 01:15:30.479 times like in my life to join churches, to join 1648 01:15:30.500 --> 01:15:34.659 Mary Kay. I remember this other thing that was like, 1649 01:15:34.739 --> 01:15:36.699 I remember this, this was so long ago. Someone called 1650 01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:39.159 me and was like, I have to tell you about 1651 01:15:39.199 --> 01:15:41.859 this thing. Donald Trump's involved in it. And it's a 1652 01:15:41.920 --> 01:15:43.659 way that you can talk on the phone and look 1653 01:15:43.689 --> 01:15:44.949 at the person at the same time. 1654 01:15:45.329 --> 01:15:48.069 Way before FaceTime, yeah. 1655 01:15:48.310 --> 01:15:50.729 And I was like, well, that's never going to happen. 1656 01:15:52.289 --> 01:15:54.930 And I was like, oh, this is just some weird whatever. 1657 01:15:55.449 --> 01:15:57.479 And then we were supposed to meet because I liked 1658 01:15:57.500 --> 01:15:59.420 her anyway. And I was kind of curious about the 1659 01:15:59.439 --> 01:16:02.039 weird thing. And then she flaked and never brought it 1660 01:16:02.079 --> 01:16:03.779 up again. So I'm like, she must have gotten out. 1661 01:16:03.840 --> 01:16:05.850 But she was one of those people that was always 1662 01:16:05.909 --> 01:16:09.310 kind of doing those, a serial joiner, like those things that, 1663 01:16:09.350 --> 01:16:12.310 you know, you would hear about. And yeah, I mean, 1664 01:16:12.329 --> 01:16:14.439 I think it's all just like fascinating. I think so 1665 01:16:14.479 --> 01:16:17.899 many people like want to have friends in a community 1666 01:16:17.939 --> 01:16:20.640 and that's sad too, that they're like, and I think 1667 01:16:20.659 --> 01:16:25.140 it's really, must be really sad when you do finally 1668 01:16:25.180 --> 01:16:27.000 say like, no, I'm not in it or I don't 1669 01:16:27.039 --> 01:16:29.159 want it. And then like, I remember this one girl 1670 01:16:29.779 --> 01:16:32.670 that was doing the Mary Kay and we both had 1671 01:16:32.689 --> 01:16:34.569 a job after college and her mom was a big 1672 01:16:34.609 --> 01:16:37.659 Mary Kay person. And she was like, I'm going to 1673 01:16:37.760 --> 01:16:40.979 quit and just do Mary Kay. And I was like, 1674 01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:43.550 all right. And then she took me to the brunch. 1675 01:16:44.399 --> 01:16:47.649 And it was this woman got up there and she's like, 1676 01:16:48.109 --> 01:16:51.890 the way I live my life is God first, then 1677 01:16:51.949 --> 01:16:54.729 my family or my husband, and then a career. And 1678 01:16:54.750 --> 01:16:56.909 then a career, yeah. And I was like, well, I 1679 01:16:56.930 --> 01:16:59.170 don't even have a boyfriend. But I do believe in God, 1680 01:16:59.189 --> 01:17:01.029 so maybe this is for me. 1681 01:17:02.210 --> 01:17:04.310 You'll make it mean whatever it needs to mean, right? 1682 01:17:04.479 --> 01:17:06.920 And then she was like, What do you think? I'm like, 1683 01:17:07.079 --> 01:17:09.600 I don't know. She goes, well, you know what they say. 1684 01:17:10.189 --> 01:17:12.029 If you wake up in the morning and you're still 1685 01:17:12.109 --> 01:17:14.329 thinking about it, then it's meant to be. Well, of 1686 01:17:14.409 --> 01:17:15.630 course you're going to wake up in the morning and 1687 01:17:15.670 --> 01:17:18.069 still think about it. But I was thinking about like, God, 1688 01:17:18.109 --> 01:17:19.789 get me out of here. And I was like, and 1689 01:17:19.850 --> 01:17:22.390 then back then you had to really keep the product. 1690 01:17:22.710 --> 01:17:22.949 Oh, yeah. 1691 01:17:23.010 --> 01:17:25.989 And my friend was like gorgeous and organized. And she 1692 01:17:26.029 --> 01:17:28.779 had a whole second room in her apartment that was 1693 01:17:28.819 --> 01:17:31.899 like she made it a store. And because then you would, like, 1694 01:17:32.039 --> 01:17:33.270 get a call from a client or whatever. 1695 01:17:33.279 --> 01:17:35.010 Yeah, and bring it over. And you'd bring it over. 1696 01:17:35.029 --> 01:17:36.970 Oh, I remember the woman, like, I just had a 1697 01:17:36.989 --> 01:17:40.470 client say, hey, I'm going on a beach vacation. I 1698 01:17:40.510 --> 01:17:42.930 need this, this, this. And I just made, you know, 1699 01:17:42.970 --> 01:17:45.649 this amount of money. And so I always thought you 1700 01:17:45.689 --> 01:17:48.149 really were making money, like, actually selling the products. But 1701 01:17:48.470 --> 01:17:50.350 now we really know the truth about it, that you 1702 01:17:50.369 --> 01:17:52.350 really don't make any real money unless you're getting so 1703 01:17:52.369 --> 01:17:56.069 many people under you. But then I just thought about it. 1704 01:17:56.529 --> 01:17:58.909 Once I told that girl, like, no, I'm not interested. 1705 01:17:59.369 --> 01:18:02.489 But then she had a party at my apartment and 1706 01:18:02.529 --> 01:18:05.649 my crazy friend acted like she was interested and kind 1707 01:18:05.689 --> 01:18:07.770 of wasted her time and then wasn't. And she was 1708 01:18:07.789 --> 01:18:10.289 like annoyed. She never called me again. 1709 01:18:11.350 --> 01:18:12.689 She got what she needed out of you. She got 1710 01:18:12.710 --> 01:18:16.260 your network. Like she got your people that you invited. 1711 01:18:16.270 --> 01:18:17.039 You don't think she enjoyed me? 1712 01:18:17.640 --> 01:18:20.539 No, like she probably did. She probably did. But that's 1713 01:18:20.579 --> 01:18:22.000 how you see people, right? 1714 01:18:22.060 --> 01:18:22.640 Right, yeah. 1715 01:18:22.659 --> 01:18:25.000 It's like she got what she needed out of you 1716 01:18:25.039 --> 01:18:26.180 at the time

and then she had to go on 1717 01:18:26.199 --> 01:18:28.710 to the next person because you have to. or you're 1718 01:18:28.770 --> 01:18:29.630 not gonna make money. 1719 01:18:30.109 --> 01:18:32.420 The only time I felt that was when I was 1720 01:18:32.800 --> 01:18:35.779 starting as a stand-up and I needed people to come 1721 01:18:35.800 --> 01:18:37.600 to the show in order for me to perform. 1722 01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:38.819 But that's different. 1723 01:18:38.840 --> 01:18:40.960 And I would say something, funny is it? And then 1724 01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:43.369 I'd say something funny and then they'd be like, oh, 1725 01:18:43.390 --> 01:18:44.729 you're so funny. I'd be like, want to come to 1726 01:18:44.770 --> 01:18:46.340 see me at the comedy store at 830 in the 1727 01:18:46.359 --> 01:18:48.979 belly room? And then I'd like get their number and 1728 01:18:49.000 --> 01:18:50.640 then call them a few times. And then once they 1729 01:18:50.659 --> 01:18:54.399 would come. And I was like, oh, thanks for coming. 1730 01:18:54.500 --> 01:18:56.680 And then they would want to be friends. And then 1731 01:18:56.720 --> 01:18:59.689 I was like, well, I don't really need any more friends. 1732 01:18:59.869 --> 01:19:02.789 And I'm doing the same routine tonight. So, yeah, you're 1733 01:19:03.029 --> 01:19:04.069 you're no use to me. 1734 01:19:04.350 --> 01:19:07.750 It's but it's selling a service or a product is 1735 01:19:07.850 --> 01:19:10.409 different than an MLM. Like even like selling this book, 1736 01:19:10.430 --> 01:19:12.970 that's what one of the feedback, like the negative feedback 1737 01:19:13.010 --> 01:19:14.789 is like, oh, well, now you're selling a book and 1738 01:19:14.829 --> 01:19:18.050 making money off of this thing. It's like that's that's 1739 01:19:18.090 --> 01:19:20.810 what being an author is like. Hello. I don't think 1740 01:19:20.829 --> 01:19:24.710 that's no. But like you're providing a service. You're you're 1741 01:19:24.729 --> 01:19:27.510 inviting people one time. You're not asking people to pay 1742 01:19:27.550 --> 01:19:29.710 you to become to train them to be comedians. 1743 01:19:29.989 --> 01:19:30.229 Yes. 1744 01:19:30.310 --> 01:19:32.909 And then asking them to go get people to be comedians. And. 1745 01:19:33.239 --> 01:19:35.850 Like that's a totally different thing. You're inviting people to 1746 01:19:36.010 --> 01:19:36.829 be entertained. 1747 01:19:37.130 --> 01:19:39.770 How weird if that was a new MLM. Oh, God. 1748 01:19:39.869 --> 01:19:42.010 Get five people to teach. 1749 01:19:42.109 --> 01:19:42.310 Yeah. 1750 01:19:42.529 --> 01:19:44.529 I mean, there are classes and stuff like that to 1751 01:19:44.550 --> 01:19:47.260 do stand-ups. But again, that's different. You're having an experience. 1752 01:19:47.300 --> 01:19:50.699 You're right. It's like there's really nothing like this except 1753 01:19:50.840 --> 01:19:53.680 like a church situation. Yeah. Where you're expected to pay 1754 01:19:53.720 --> 01:19:57.500 a certain amount a year and always go and recruit people. 1755 01:19:57.520 --> 01:19:59.920 Yeah. And if you leave, like I think that's the 1756 01:20:00.020 --> 01:20:03.500 biggest sign if something is like, you know, not on 1757 01:20:03.520 --> 01:20:05.380 the up and up. What happens when you leave? 1758 01:20:05.659 --> 01:20:05.920 Yeah. 1759 01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:07.640 If I were to say to you like, oh, I 1760 01:20:07.659 --> 01:20:11.020 tried being a comedian. It wasn't for me. You wouldn't 1761 01:20:11.060 --> 01:20:12.810 be like, you're dead to me. I can't talk to 1762 01:20:12.829 --> 01:20:14.289 you anymore. You'd have been like, yeah, it's hard. 1763 01:20:14.529 --> 01:20:14.750 Yeah. 1764 01:20:15.270 --> 01:20:17.130 But if I say like, oh, you're not in the 1765 01:20:17.250 --> 01:20:20.329 MLM anymore. Like, Heather, I can't. Like, it becomes such 1766 01:20:20.350 --> 01:20:21.189 a part of your identity. 1767 01:20:21.229 --> 01:20:22.270 It can't. We can't. 1768 01:20:22.689 --> 01:20:25.750 Interact anymore. And so when your friend had that party and, 1769 01:20:26.329 --> 01:20:28.970 you know, like that, a friend didn't sign up, like that, 1770 01:20:29.210 --> 01:20:32.210 that was the end, right. Of your relationship. Yeah. 1771 01:20:32.710 --> 01:20:35.979 Yeah. And you know, I just realized that I really 1772 01:20:35.989 --> 01:20:37.680 didn't know why she stopped calling me. 1773 01:20:37.760 --> 01:20:39.319 Yeah, I know. 1774 01:20:39.800 --> 01:20:41.840 But I didn't want to sell Mary Kay and then 1775 01:20:41.899 --> 01:20:44.960 neither did the one friend that was lost enough that 1776 01:20:44.979 --> 01:20:45.760 maybe would. Yeah. 1777 01:20:45.800 --> 01:20:47.060 Yeah. 1778 01:20:47.739 --> 01:20:50.670 And it's sad. And she's, you know, Like she is, 1779 01:20:50.869 --> 01:20:53.310 who knows if she's still in or whatever, but like 1780 01:20:53.850 --> 01:20:55.670 she'll come to realize that one day. Like, oh God, 1781 01:20:55.689 --> 01:20:58.949 I just like kind of use people as like, you know, numbers. 1782 01:20:58.989 --> 01:21:01.039 People were numbers. It's a numbers game. You're told that 1783 01:21:01.100 --> 01:21:03.500 so often that you really just believe that. Like talk 1784 01:21:03.539 --> 01:21:04.720 to one person. And do you think a. 1785 01:21:04.680 --> 01:21:07.760 Lot of people were like fake friends too? Oh God, yes. 1786 01:21:07.819 --> 01:21:09.640 Like acting like you really wanted to be at this 1787 01:21:09.699 --> 01:21:11.239 person's baby shower and stuff? 1788 01:21:11.340 --> 01:21:15.329 Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's, it's just getting to 1789 01:21:15.369 --> 01:21:17.760 know as many people as you can. Like, even going 1790 01:21:17.800 --> 01:21:20.399 to an exercise class and, like, starting up a conversation. 1791 01:21:20.460 --> 01:21:22.819 I remember being told, like, anytime

you're on an airplane, 1792 01:21:22.880 --> 01:21:24.220 make sure you talk to the person next to you 1793 01:21:24.239 --> 01:21:25.960 and make sure you have samples in your purse and, 1794 01:21:26.079 --> 01:21:30.729 you know, get their info. Yes, everything is about getting contacts. 1795 01:21:30.869 --> 01:21:34.630 I mean, all that is, like, I get it, but also, again, 1796 01:21:34.710 --> 01:21:35.970 you're never off the clock. 1797 01:21:36.069 --> 01:21:36.270 Never. 1798 01:21:36.850 --> 01:21:39.930 It's always just in your head. And then if you 1799 01:21:40.010 --> 01:21:42.659 don't do it, then you feel guilt that you didn't 1800 01:21:42.720 --> 01:21:42.920 do it. 1801 01:21:42.920 --> 01:21:45.520 And you're blamed for it. So that's, again, it's like, 1802 01:21:46.140 --> 01:21:47.979 You can make it if you work hard, which is 1803 01:21:48.039 --> 01:21:52.039 not true because 99.7% of people don't. And if you don't, 1804 01:21:52.100 --> 01:21:53.720 then you can be blamed for it. Well, you must 1805 01:21:53.760 --> 01:21:55.340 not have worked hard enough. You must not have talked 1806 01:21:55.359 --> 01:21:57.899 to enough people. You must not have whatever, fill in 1807 01:21:57.939 --> 01:22:00.659 the blank. You can always say it's someone else's fault. 1808 01:22:01.090 --> 01:22:03.590 What about people that are serial MLM-ers? 1809 01:22:04.829 --> 01:22:07.390 Yeah, like join one and then join another and join another. 1810 01:22:07.449 --> 01:22:09.949 Yeah, and then everyone's just like, oh, my God, stay 1811 01:22:09.970 --> 01:22:11.590 away from that chick from high school. Yeah. 1812 01:22:12.689 --> 01:22:14.890 I mean, they just have hope that like it wasn't 1813 01:22:14.930 --> 01:22:16.909 that company, that it's the next thing is going to 1814 01:22:16.930 --> 01:22:19.970 be different. And they're searching for something like I was 1815 01:22:20.029 --> 01:22:22.850 like lots of people are. And I think that's where 1816 01:22:22.869 --> 01:22:24.569 you have to step back and say, like, what are 1817 01:22:24.609 --> 01:22:26.729 you looking for? Like, if you're that friend who's got 1818 01:22:26.770 --> 01:22:29.590 the annoying friend, just say, what are you looking for 1819 01:22:29.630 --> 01:22:31.479 when you join these? Like, how does this usually go 1820 01:22:31.520 --> 01:22:33.939 for you? Yeah, not great. You know, are you looking 1821 01:22:33.960 --> 01:22:37.300 for community? Like, let me help you find a different way. Like, 1822 01:22:37.319 --> 01:22:39.680 let's join a meetup group or something. Play pickleball. 1823 01:22:39.739 --> 01:22:40.199 I don't care. 1824 01:22:40.260 --> 01:22:42.949 Like, don't buy into something that has failed you so 1825 01:22:42.989 --> 01:22:45.180 many times. You know, are you looking for money? Let's 1826 01:22:45.199 --> 01:22:49.319 look at actual jobs or actual stay at home, like, 1827 01:22:49.340 --> 01:22:52.380 you know, virtual assistant or something like that. Like there, 1828 01:22:52.399 --> 01:22:55.180 there is a way to fulfill whatever your, whatever that 1829 01:22:55.279 --> 01:22:59.529 need is when MLMs just constantly, it's that sunk cost fallacy. 1830 01:22:59.810 --> 01:23:01.510 Like it's going to work out this time. I've already 1831 01:23:01.529 --> 01:23:02.850 put in this much money. I might as well put 1832 01:23:02.890 --> 01:23:03.170 in more. 1833 01:23:04.050 --> 01:23:07.569 Well, I am excited to take this book on my 1834 01:23:07.609 --> 01:23:15.520 trip going to Hawaii. Um, To join an MLM. It's 1835 01:23:15.560 --> 01:23:18.680 a special Hawaii trip. No, it's Hey Hon by Emily 1836 01:23:18.739 --> 01:23:20.930 Lynn Paulson. Tell everybody where they can also follow you 1837 01:23:20.989 --> 01:23:22.390 as well on social media. 1838 01:23:22.470 --> 01:23:26.529 Yeah, I'm everywhere on Emily Lynn Paulson. And you can 1839 01:23:26.550 --> 01:23:27.970 get the book anywhere books are sold. 1840 01:23:28.130 --> 01:23:29.289 And you have your other book too. 1841 01:23:29.510 --> 01:23:29.789 Yes. 1842 01:23:30.069 --> 01:23:30.270 Yeah. 1843 01:23:30.310 --> 01:23:32.960 Highlight Reel. So you can find that on my website also. 1844 01:23:33.300 --> 01:23:34.079 Oh, great. Yeah. 1845 01:23:34.100 --> 01:23:34.220 Okay. 1846 01:23:34.380 --> 01:23:35.739 Thanks, girl. Thanks for coming. 1847 01:23:35.779 --> 01:23:39.239 Thanks for having me. Just choose who to reward and 1848 01:23:39.270 --> 01:23:40.779 how much. OptionsCard handles the rest. 1849 01:23:41.189 --> 01:23:43.829 Your team gets one voucher, opening a world of choice. 1850 01:23:44.050 --> 01:23:46.829 They can even re-gift some of the value. One reward. 1851 01:23:46.850 --> 01:23:48.170 Endless choice. Skip the hassle. 1852 01:23:48.189 --> 01:23:48.960 Reward the easy way.