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Welcome to the Journey Podcast where we take missiology off the shelf and bring it to life because you deserve to be equipped for the call.
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I'm Christy Trimber.
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And I'm Bill Snyder.
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So glad that you've joined us.
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In our first episode with Scott, Scott Strickland has been our guest for these past two episodes.
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We've got one more together.
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In our first episode, we discovered why God calls us to think in terms of peoples.
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Then we explored who still lacks meaningful access, keyword access to the gospel.
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And so today we asked probably the most personal question of the series: what does this mean for me?
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Yeah, so whether you're teaching in a seminary, serving in member care, planting churches, leading or serving in a national fellowship, mobilizing new missionaries, where does your ministry fit in God's global mission?
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One of the uh things about the AGWM paper that we're referring to, one of the strengths is, is that it refuses to divide missionaries into first class and second class callings.
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That's right.
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Straight from the AGWM paper, they basically have a color code of red, yellow, and green.
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Red pioneering teams, yellow, strengthening emerging movements, green apostolic partnership with established churches.
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And the point isn't the colors.
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The point is that different assignments all serve under one big mission.
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Yeah, and so some of that is compassion, some of it is social justice, some of it is Bible colleges.
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We have, I mean, the whole gamut and all of it fits within the mission of God because it's just that big.
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And I love that.
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Um, I love that no matter where we are, we can serve the mission of God.
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We can be mobilizers, we can do what the Lord has called us to do and be effective in making him famous where he is not yet known.
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So let me ask you this question, Scott.
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Why is it dangerous to assume that pioneer ministry is the only quote unquote real missions?
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Well, if you we start making uh a false assumption like that, then right there where it's really I feel like that really just comes out of pride, right?
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Like it's God.
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I mean, it's a pretty arrogant statement to say I'm the only real one.
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Um like, no, you're not, and you're not the first, and you're not gonna be the last.
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Um the the end of the day, God calls us and we have to be obedient to what the Lord is telling us to do.
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So there is no first class, second class.
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Uh that does not have a place within the kingdom.
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You know, you mentioned that you know, you're not the first, you're not the last.
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So when we have short-term teams come to Cairo, we take them to a couple of cemeteries, which I know sounds really weird, but it's part of their experience and it's fun.
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So they go and they there's an American cemetery where William Borden is buried.
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He's very famous for saying, No regret, no retreat, no reserve.
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Uh, he actually died here in Cairo, not far from where I'm sitting right now.
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And um, and what's amazing is when you walk through this cemetery, it's not just William Borden.
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There's all these Americans, and you'll see like this missionary served for 60 years, and this lady started school, and this person, you know, planted a church, or this person served orphans and all these things.
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And I and I love going there because it reminds me that I am not the first global worker that Jesus has sent to this place, that I am standing on the shoulders of people who sacrificed greatly.
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They prayed and they toiled, and that's significant, but it also reminds me that I'm not the last, which means that I need to work really hard to stay in alignment so that the trajectory continues to move forward without going all wonky and um so that the gospel can continue and moving forward where it is not yet known.
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So when we get kind of caught up in this idea of what real missions is and what real missions isn't, it it to me it's just silly.
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There's silly arguments that I think it's demin, it's it's demeaning of we're better than this.
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Yeah.
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And I know, I know that there is a challenge in support raising.
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I know that with the goal of putting more mission workers on the field, there's gonna be more and more.
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Um I hate the word competition.
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Let I would say this, and I this next month or very soon right now, I will have been 40 years in missions from the point of our initial approval.
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Wow.
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And I can look back on that and say this God's call is God's enabling, and God's enabling includes God's support team.
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And so I do not have to put someone else down in order to lift myself up.
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Load full transcript
That's right.
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Let your passion and let your call pave the way for the support that is going to be coming to you.
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You're one individual like we all are, and we all have this wonderful thing in the assemblies of God that we believe in the call of God, and it's a call to specific or to generalized places.
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We know what we're supposed to be about.
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Let that call be the foundation on which you build support.
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Because we have a choice every time we're in a church, every time we're communicating, we can communicate big picture, or we can communicate, I'm the one that's really doing it.
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And maybe we stay away from that temptation because it doesn't help you in the long term.
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It's not gonna help you.
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No, no, can I add that doesn't look good either in front of the pastors and the churches, let's be honest.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And I think, I mean, one of the things I love about itineration, because there's so often I can't share the whole story living where I live.
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And so I have to be cryptic and things like that.
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And so when I'm in the States and I'm at a place that doesn't record, um, I can share what what the Lord is really doing.
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I can tell God's story of what He's doing.
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And that's such a beautiful privilege to be able to be a part of.
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And I don't know, it just it cheapens it when we start comparing, you know, who's doing what and what that means and why and whatever.
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Because what I see.
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Oh, sorry, go ahead, Bill.
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No, no, let me go back to the three colors again.
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I was never red, I was never yellow.
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Well, in a way I was a little bit yellow, but mostly I was green, meaning apostolic partnership with established churches.
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God gave me favor with existing churches and leaders to help them walk with them to see the unreached that are in their own nations.
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And the end result of that was there is wonderful national leaders today who are leading mission movements, and they forgot that I ever had a conversation with them.
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Like I think that beautiful.
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Yes.
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So we all, we all have influence, we all have friends, we all have a partner, and they may be 25 today, but when they're 45, they could be a district leader, they could be in a national office.
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Your influence today
is setting the stage for a tremendous thing that will happen in your nation.
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Let God work through your relationships and don't pay any attention to whether you're this or that.
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Serve where God has planted you and be open to what God would move you to do.
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Amen.
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Yeah, and and at the end of the day, like most of my career has been in the pioneer setting.
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Christy, you're the same boat.
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You spent a lot of your career in the pioneer setting, but as we were talking about earlier, you had to leave the field for a stretch because of some other things going on in your lives.
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My family's recently had to step away from the pioneering role and step back.
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That's a challenge when you're used to being at the bleeding tip of the spear and then you step back.
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It's a challenge.
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But if we wrap our identity up in I am this one thing rather than I am a child of God, then suddenly what happens to us when something we've been involved in gets pulled away, or God says, Okay, your assignment is shifting for this season.
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You know, yeah.
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Like at the end of the day, we gotta have our identity as I'm a child of God, not as I am a this or I am a that.
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Yeah.
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No, I I I hear you.
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I had that struggle when we we moved we moved to the States for a few years, and just, you know, am I still a missionary?
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Am I still this?
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Am I still that?
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And yeah, and I had to work through what that meant for me in my as a professional and my career, but also just in me as as a child of God, as as a daughter of the king, um, what that meant for me, because it had become up become so much of my identity, because it's I mean, I've been doing this for a long time and I was called as a little kid, so this has been my tradic my trajectory for my whole life, and it just felt weird.
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But it was a beautiful time where the Lord really brought me through this um kind of identity crisis so that my identity was just on him, and that was a really beautiful thing to discover.
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But that leads me to this kind of idea that we are one mission with two complementary pathways.
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There's global access, which we've talked about a lot, pioneering where the church does not yet exist, and then we have global alignment, partnering with churches where they do exist, so they become healthy sending churches, reaching the unreached.
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So the the question is how this has happened, so it's not just a like a theory, not just an idea, but something that actually is working through.
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And I I love your example, Bill, of was it the Philippines or Indonesia?
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Yes.
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Of just that church growing where they didn't even think that people that the other people group could even follow Jesus, and now all of a sudden they're reaching them, and that's just so beautiful.
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I love that.
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And it's just to me a picture of global alignment in the best possible way.
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And and we want to keep the relationships open with those that we serve with, because you never know when change will happen.
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Uh, all of us can get frustrated with seemingly the slowness of how it's going on.
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But then all of a sudden there's a change, and in six months, it's a different world in terms of relationship with national church leader, perhaps, or the emphasis that they're placing now on things that have been in our heart for so long, and we thought nobody was listening.
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But we've got to maintain, and in fact, our next series is going to be on the subject of partnership.
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We've got to maintain good, growing relationships with those that we are called to serve with, because out of those relationships are going to be multiplication factors that we alone as one individual could never accomplish.
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So part of that, it can seem um there's there's challenges, yes, but there is a future that God has us in his hands.
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And so I want to be in alignment.
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I I want to be available to challenge and to work with existing churches that they would be healthy, sending churches, eventually reaching the unreached.
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It may not happen today.
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But two years from now, who knows what God can do.
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But I know this we can, through our own um negative activities, cut off our cut off our opportunities to see that happen.
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We've got to keep those relationships strong and open because we are influential people where we are in some degree.
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So, Scott, tell us some examples of what this would look like where um, you know, some of the pathways that help support the mission of God in a different way than pioneer missions.
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Yeah, so uh Alan Johnson developed what he calls a continuum of ministry.
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It's a great graphic.
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Um the old spear analogy for you.
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Remember that one?
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Yeah, it was a little bit violent.
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It was a little bit
violent.
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There's some reason we don't really use it a whole lot today, but it it gets the point across, right?
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It does.
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It does.
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Um, but that whole idea of a continuum from on one end of the spectrum, I'm involved in praying for the unreached.
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That's the bare minimum, right?
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The bare minimum as a follower of Jesus is that we pray, that we seek God on behalf of those who have no access to the gospel.
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Uh, we said it, uh, I think in the first episode, uh, we talked about the Doxa initiative and the need to like you can go and adopt a people group, an unengaged people group, all the way through that pioneering team at the other end of the spectrum who is out there day to day walking the streets of a place where nobody has ever heard the name of Jesus.
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And as Paul writes with the Romans, how can they believe in someone they've never heard of?
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That's right.
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How can they hear unless someone has sent?
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And so you got that whole spectrum.
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So the idea is that somewhere along that spectrum, we need to be uh able to identify ourselves.
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At the very least, we can all be praying.
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And I mean, prayer is not it's true when we say prayer is the work.
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Like we throw that out there, right?
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How many times how many times have we all said that line, right?
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Right?
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He might be he might be famous for a reason.
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Um yeah, but it's true, right?
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Prayer is the work, and I think we can all testify to what's happened in our ministries and in our lives because somebody somewhere was praying.
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That's right.
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Uh maybe even not even knowing why, but they're praying.
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Yeah.
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And so finding ourselves on that continuum, that's what we've got to do.
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That's right.
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So there is no B team in the mission of God.
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Nope.
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We are all the A team.
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Yes.
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And I'm referring to a show that was around when I was very, very young.
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I'm picturing Bill with a mohawk and lots of gold chains right now.
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Imagine gold chains.
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I'm you know, Scott, we're we're we're uh we're aging ourselves right now.
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Okay.
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If you don't know the show, you need to find the show on YouTube.
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Please find young Mr.
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T.
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Yeah, I will pull out the chains.
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By the way, in case you've just joined us, let me remind you this is the Journey Podcast.
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And today we're asking not whether every missionary has the same assignment, but how every assignment contributes to God's one mission.
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And we're available sporadically.
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Hopefully, more often than not, you can binge listen to us if you're really bored.
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You can go back to an episode because they're all there.
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And uh I'm just so glad that we have the opportunity to share life in this way.
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All right.
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So we're talking, we're talking about living the aligned life.
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Uh we talked about praying as a part of it.
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We talked about the uh DOXA initiative.
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Um and we've got a note that's available, a document that explains that and how to sign up to pray for an unengaged people group.
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Honestly, guys, this may be edited out, but I feel like in some ways the assemblies of God is late to the table of unreached people groups.
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Oh, we are beyond late to the table.
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We were very late.
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We are the last to the table.
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Two decades ago, I was adopting a people.
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You know, it was Ralph Winter.
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It was all of that.
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It's the perspectives movement.
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So many good things were out there.
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Sitting right there on my shelf.
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We all need to.
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Yeah.
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So, so um, you know, this this maybe some of you, and hopefully some of you have been doing this for a long time, and perhaps you are where you are because you adopted a people and God gave you the chance to be there.
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Yeah.
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So um, I think it's important that we do that.
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Let me tell you one quick story.
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I was um I'm involved with a local church mission team and trying to redevelop a mission initiative in a church here.
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And so we did an a Zoom interview with a missionary somewhere in the world, and he was talking about the fact that he was just going back for a second term, and God had put a people group on his heart that he hadn't known about before.
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There was no church among them, there was no Bible among them, and they were probably an hour to an hour and a half from where he was going to be based.
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In going back on this next term, one of his top priorities was to go there, visit there, meet people there, look for ways to engage there, because he said, It's important what I'm doing here, but a part of this next term has to be somewhere where the gospel has not been.
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The result of that is this church immediately picked this family up because of what God is doing in his life and because of the fact that we want to see engagement go beyond where we are right now.
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So God is doing that among us.
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How much more can it happen as we pray, as we as we read, as we converse, as we think about these things, as it becomes a part of our daily conversation.
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The future is really bright as far as living in this aligned way.
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And it's not an alignment, excuse me, it's not an alignment with an organization, although that's a part of it.
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What we're really talking about is an alignment with the Word of God.
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That's right.
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How much more that is than just with a current initiative?
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Yeah.
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No, that's true.
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So if you haven't signed up to pray every day for an unengaged people group, do I pray for the Beldar people in India every morning as part of my morning routine?
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Um I'm learning a lot about them.
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They're an interesting people group.
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But that's one practical step that you can take today.
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It's simple, it doesn't take a whole lot of time.
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Um, and the second is just to get to know a people.
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Can you can you name an unengaged people group?
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Uh if not, choose one, learn about them, pray for them, talk about them with other people and be like, hey, there's this people group called the Beldar.
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There's no one who knows Jesus among them.
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And just watch what happens when you tell people because they cannot believe that in 2026 this is still a thing, that there are so many people who have never had once had the opportunity to hear about the gospel of Jesus.
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And the third is just to draw the line to ask yourself, how does my ministry move the gospel one step closer to people who still have no access?
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Because that is gospel alignment.
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That is global alignment.
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It's it's what it means when we, you
know, whether you're working in mobilization or member care, member care, I am so thankful for them.
00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:59.839
They keep us healthy so that we can stay on the field.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:04.960
They, you know, send little things through the TCK office to my daughter.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:11.599
And um, and she, you know, loves it when we're in the States and she gets all that, she gets to open all of her mail because we can't get it here.
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:20.640
Um, but you know, she's we have little Miko everywhere, like it's on her backpack and it's on, you know, there's a sticker on her water bottle because it's it that's part of it.
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:26.240
And it helps her identify with TCKs from around the world.
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:34.480
So their investment in global alignment is huge, and we should not underestimate that at all.
00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:39.759
And so it it the line is not it's not difficult to draw.
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:42.640
It's all a matter of a perspective.
00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:43.680
Yeah.
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:45.119
That's right.
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:49.279
And all of us are involved to some degree in mobilization.
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:50.000
That's right.
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:58.480
If we're home itinerating, we're sharing the vision, and we can include in that vision gospel access.
00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:06.160
Uh if we're on the field, we're helping national workers to embrace their role in the mission of God.
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:11.119
We all have the ability to influence someone else.
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:28.720
In in just the daily life of being a global worker, whether it's in in Cairo or in Istanbul or in uh Hanoi, North Vietnam, um, we all have the opportunity to mobilize and invite others to tell the stories.
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:37.680
And I would encourage you, if some of you are listening to this and you're itinerating right now, include global and gospel access in your Sunday presentation.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.119
Yeah, your thing with small groups that you're doing.
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:49.200
In your gospel in your, you know, quarterly or however often you communicate to your support team, mention those terms.
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:55.119
It's it needs to become a part of the daily conversation of our movement at large, and you're a part of that.
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:59.759
You may feel small, but you have influence in certain parts of this nation.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.960
Let it be.
00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:02.880
Use your influence to mobilize.
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:09.359
You know, the the gospel access concept is really uh taking off within our churches.
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:11.920
I'm itinerating right now.
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:27.599
And the last two weeks or two of the last three weeks I've seen where we've been at churches, and they were already using John Easter's what two-minute gospel access video clip as a part of
their convention stuff, uh things like that.
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:30.400
It's it's taking off, it's spreading, it's taking root.
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:44.880
So yeah, it's something we need to not just uh connect with so that we can raise money, you know, so that we can be in alignment with what's happening organizationally, but as you said, Christy, because it's really about what scripture says.
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:48.720
So, Scott, let me ask you this.
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:58.400
If you could challenge every AGWM missionary with one practical step after this series on the unreached, what would it be?
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:05.839
Um, after they've adopted an unengaged people group to pray, because that's the automatic given first.
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:06.400
Sure.
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:12.319
Um beyond that, start looking for who are the unengaged or the unreached people around you.
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.559
Who are those who are geographically near?
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:17.440
Maybe you're in a place that is very much reached.
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:23.279
You're in a country uh working amongst the people that's 97, 98, 99% reached.
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:27.039
Uh, but I guarantee you there are gonna be diaspora people nearby.
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:36.240
There are gonna be someone else around who is from a people group who they may be geographically near to Christianity, but they're culturally far.
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:38.400
So start looking intentionally.
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:40.720
It takes intentionality in everything we do, right?
00:23:40.880 --> 00:24:01.759
Uh so intentionally start looking for who are those people near you that have no access and start trying to see what can you do to make inroads, how can you cast a vision for the national church, for local partners, and how can you personally or as a team start to try to engage with these people.
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:06.240
Um, maybe it's building more margin into your life so that you have some time for it.
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:12.000
Maybe it's spending time at a different coffee shop, maybe it's learning a whole nother language.
00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:18.880
Um but to be intentional, look for those people in your community where you're at that still are without access.
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:30.480
So we've spent three episodes talking about peoples and access and calling, but none of this is really about terminology.
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:32.000
Those are just words.
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:34.640
What it's really about is people.
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:40.480
It's about my friends that I live among.
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:44.640
It's real men and real women made in God's image.
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:50.000
It's about communities where the name of Jesus is still largely unknown.
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:54.720
The question isn't whether all of us will become pioneers.
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:56.960
That's that's not the right question.
00:24:57.200 -->
00:25:18.640
The question is whether all of us will intentionally align our lives with God's heart for all peoples, because some of us will go, some of us will train those who go, some of us will mobilize, some of us will strengthen churches that will become sending churches, but all of us can pray and all of us can participate.
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:24.559
So I would challenge everyone listening, sign up for the Doxer Prayer app, doxa.life.
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:26.079
Uh, it's got a great app.
00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:27.920
I highly recommend it.
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:35.440
Um learn, adopt an unengaged people group, learn its name, its location, learn its story, and then align yourself.
00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:42.319
Ask, can I clearly explain how my ministry advances gospel access and then mobilize?
00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:47.759
Share what you've learned with your team, with your supporters, with your church where you are.
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:54.240
For the first time in history, the global church is positioned to work together like never before.
00:25:54.559 --> 00:26:04.240
Churches from Africa and Asia, Latin America, Europe, North America, and the Pacific are no longer simply receiving missionaries, they're sending them.
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:11.519
The unfinished task is still unfinished, but we are watching God raise up a truly global missionary movement.
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:15.759
And what a privilege it is to find our place in that story.
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:26.960
It's been great, Scott, to have you with us, not only to share uh thoughts of your life, but also to just, you know, you're authentic, man.
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:30.640
You're you've done this, you're doing this, you're committed to this.
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.160
You're not some theorist sitting in an ivory tower.
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:35.839
You're living this out.
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:45.839
And um that is a challenge for each of us as we listen to your life and your story and where we're at in the whole mission of God right now.
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:52.880
Um next time we get together, we're going to be tackling another major conversation in missions today.
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:58.720
And it really flows out of unreached peoples, um, unengaged peoples.
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:01.119
The topic will be partnership.
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:03.279
How do we work well together?
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:07.680
And how do we work well with those that we are called to serve among?
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:10.079
What does the Bible say about this?
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:12.880
And how does it work in practical terms?
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:15.119
The good, the bad, the challenges.
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.640
We're going to deal with it with a special guest from Africa.
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:24.319
And uh I hope that you'll look forward to that and tell others about the Journey Podcast.
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:25.839
We are here for you.
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:35.599
Uh download some of the extra uh resources that are available and definitely um share this with others that you know.
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:42.880
I mean, it's been exciting to see that I think we're way over a thousand listens or downloads at this point.
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:54.240
I would love to see that double because this is not only available for us as a mission, but I understand that we're also going to be making it available to some in our World Assemblies of God Fellowship.
00:27:54.559 --> 00:28:03.680
So, Journey Podcast, it's for you trying to unpack missions so that you're able to do it in a way that honors God and you find fulfillment in it.
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:05.200
Christy, great to be with you.
00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:08.960
Scott, thanks for joining us, and I look forward to our next time together.
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:09.839
Have a great day.