บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ The Effectiveness Files: Will Butler-Adams, Brompton Bicycle

I've ever heard. 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:12.240 And you literally met a stranger on a bus? 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:16.480 I met a guy who I'd never met before called Tim Guinness. 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:18.000 Funny enough, that's his picture up there. 00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:20.160 He was the chair of Brompton. 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:25.519 He went to Cambridge with Andrew the inventor, and we got chatting, and that's how it started. 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:33.920 And I would have done two years, but for the fact that this weird bike invented by an eccentric legend changed my life. 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:35.680 And I am not a city man. 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:38.959 I was brought up sort of in the countryside. 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:46.720 Cities were big, claustrophobic, scary, you know, fun for a weekend, but not to live in it. 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:59.120 But then this bike, which no one had, none of my friends had, it really was a pioneer's bike, but it was very cool because it meant I got to know London. 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:01.279 I had friends who'd been there because I'd obviously been in Middlesbrough. 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:08.879 They'd been there seven or eight years, and all they'd ever done is get up and go down the same hole in the ground and trundle along in a metal tube spluttered on by a load of other people. 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:13.120 And I was whizzing along, cutting through back streets, down canals, across parks. 00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:16.319 I was going to nightclubs, folding it up, shoving it in the cloakroom. 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:20.240 My girlfriend, who now became my wife, she's standing on the rear rack. 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:23.600 It's two in the morning, zooming back to my flat, her flat. 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:24.959 This thing was awesome. 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:30.639 It meant suddenly the city was fun and liberating as opposed to claustrophobic. 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:36.079 And then I met other customers, and they said to me, This bike's changed my life. 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:38.160 That's fairly major. 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:47.839 And you know, so I was given some great advice from a mentor I had when I joined ICI, chat called Andy T, and he said, You'll never know what you want to do. 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:52.000 But if you ever find yourself doing something you don't want to do, get the hell out. 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:53.519 And obviously, this is the opposite. 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:56.480 I found myself doing something that was completely awesome. 00:05:56.720 --> 00:05:58.079 So I never got out. 00:05:58.319 --> 00:05:59.439 I was still here. 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:01.839 So how big was the company when you joined it? 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:03.439 1.7 million. 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:04.959 In terms of revenue? 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:05.519 Yeah. 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:08.000 And how many bikes is that? 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:10.160 Producing about 4,000 bikes. 00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:10.879 Pretty

much. 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:14.480 We were selling in the UK, Germany, and the Netherlands. 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:16.160 We really didn't have a website. 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:18.079 Marketing, forget it. 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:20.240 In many respects, Andrew done all hard work. 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:24.720 He got through the difficult bit and it taken him forever, and he started in 1975. 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:28.399 I rocked up in 2002. 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:33.279 So he worked very hard to get the difficult stuff done. 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:36.879 I then turned up, picked it up by the scruff of the neck, and said, let's fire this thing up. 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.839 Both engineers, but very different types of engineers. 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:42.160 So what does firing it up look like? 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:44.160 Making people know it exists. 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:46.000 You can have the best thing in the world. 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:48.240 It could be a service, a product, it could be anything. 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:54.399 But if no one knows it exists, if they don't know how it might change their life, you're just gonna disappear. 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:57.600 No one will know you existed, no one will enjoy it, you won't have an impact. 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:01.600 And there's no point working hard if you don't affect people's lives. 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:07.759 I mean, we all want to feel we've contributed while we're on our short little journey on planet Earth. 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:14.000 So there's no point being a genius if no one has the impact of this amazing thing, whatever it might be. 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:22.639 And is it obvious looking back now that there were sort of chapters in the journey from 4,000 to what was it today? 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:23.439 70,000? 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:25.199 80,000, something like that. 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:29.279 Gone from about 1.7 million to about 125 million is where we are at the minute. 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:32.800 The first thing I did was Andrew couldn't make enough bikes. 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:34.160 That doesn't help. 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:37.279 And that's because he was trying to do everything. 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:40.160 He was a genius, but also a megalomaniac. 00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:42.240 And so he controlled everything. 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:56.000 Well, we were bending little bits of wire on a four-stage manual press, and each time you did 500 bits of wire and you bend them in one form, you then take the tooling off, then you set up another tool, then you bend it in another form, and the whole thing took forever. 00:07:56.079 --> 00:08:03.600 And then in the Midlands, there's a you know 350 grand CNC wire bending machine that just goes wiggle-wiggle-wiggle and punk, and everyone's the same. 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:08.560 This was on a fly press, and if and it had to be a bloke because you needed to have enormous guns. 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:12.000 And by

the time he got to sort of 456, his arms getting tired. 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:12.560 So guess what? 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:13.920 The bend wasn't quite the same. 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:15.600 We chucked half them in the bin. 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:24.160 So I got busy getting rid of any stuff that wasn't core, and core had magic, core had Brompton DNA, Brompton know-how. 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:35.200 But if it was just a thing that many people in the world could make, let them get on with it, and we can focus on the really magical stuff like brazing, which is really at the heart of what we do. 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:44.080 Um, so I got involved in that, and then I wanted more people to know that we existed. 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:48.879 And luckily for London, it's extremely cosmopolitan, and for us, our bike folds up. 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:58.720 So when people came and worked in London and they discovered this little bike, when they went home to Japan or whether they went home to Detroit or wherever, they packed their little bike up and take it home. 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:02.720 And the somebody told somebody who said to somebody, Well, no one's selling that bike. 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:05.200 Why don't I stick my hand up and I'll sell it? 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:15.039 So then I started, in some respects, through the fact that our product had sort of self-fertilized in a funny sort of way, but nothing was there to nurture it and look after it. 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:22.639 I then started taking that seriously and trying to look for distributors in the first instance. 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:36.159 And a distributor is someone who picks it up from you, FOB, takes it into your country, deals with all the paperwork, invests in the stock, finds the retailers, builds a website, makes sure you've got customer service, you've got the spares and everything else. 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:41.840 And then we had a nutter who is still with us, he's great, Mr. 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:46.559 Loro, who decided he wanted to open a shop that only sold Bromptons. 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:48.000 And we thought, oh, this is nuts. 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.879 We're a niche of a niche of a niche of a niche, it'll never work. 00:09:51.120 --> 00:10:05.039 But he was determined and he wanted to open his shop in Kobe, where the good beef comes from in Japan, and he was only gonna sell Bromptons, and he was gonna call it the Brompton Concert Store, Kobe, whatever it was, it was a mouthful. 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:07.279 And we were like, oh my god, we can't call it that. 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:08.480 That's a terrible name. 00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:09.279 What are we gonna call it? 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:15.200 Because we didn't want to call it Brompton because we felt that was the bike, and we thought the retail bit might screw up, so we'd call it something different. 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:24.960 So we thought the bike is the bike, but where people meet is at the shop, and

the the biggest conglomeration of meeting people in London is the is Clapham Junction. 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:28.080 So we thought, oh, we'll call it Brompton Junction, that's where people meet. 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:33.759 So that's what we did, and we had about a week to come up with it, and then we came up with a slightly squiffy logo that if you ditched. 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:40.960 And then we had the awful Fukushima disaster about 10 days before we were opening the shop. 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:45.440 I went in and for the store opening, and my lovely Japanese dealer, Mr. 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:52.879 Laura, was just so honoured that I'd, against all the advice, flew in, to which I felt there was no risk whatsoever. 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:54.080 And we had a great opening. 00:10:54.159 --> 00:11:00.000 And that was a precursor for us to realise we could actually open a store just selling Bromptons. 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:05.440 And then we took the next big step, which is where we opened our own store in Covent Garden. 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:11.200 The centre of London is owned by the King, it's owned by, oh, there are about three of them. 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:13.519 These they've all they've all sort of wrapped it up. 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:16.240 Dukes and Yeah, and and they've all wrapped it up. 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:18.480 So we thought, oh, we can open a little store. 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:20.080 And uh trotted on. 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:21.039 What do you do? 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:22.879 We're Brompton bicycles. 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:25.919 No, no, I'm sorry, it's not available. 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:27.679 Well, it looks like it's available. 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:30.639 I think we can might we might be I'm sorry. 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:32.720 We're creating our brands. 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:34.639 No, no, sorry, not possible. 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:36.720 And we found this everywhere we went. 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:40.960 We could not get into Central London, they wouldn't let us in because we were like grubby little bikes. 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:43.519 Eventually, it was classic. 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:50.720 The guy who was helping us, who was a friend of Lorne's, who was my FD, suddenly rang up and we had a budget of 70 grand a year, was our rent we could afford. 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:54.399 And he said, Will, Will, there's a shop on Longacre. 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:57.519 It's come up and it's gone bust. 00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:00.240 So you can buy the business for a quid. 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:02.480 Buy the chocolate business. 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:04.799 So we charge around, but you have to make the decision today. 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:06.399 And it was 90 grand, not 70. 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:08.000 We didn't have time to get board approval. 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:10.799 Lawn and I are in there, cool shop, cool location. 00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:12.480 We're like, oh, do we, don't we? 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:17.600 We walk back, and then we saw this green roundle above the store. 00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:18.639 What's that? 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:22.480 And there's a bloke in a tailcoat and top hat on a bicycle. 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:31.679 And it said, from this location, in 1816, Dennis Johnson built and made Britain's first bicycle in this workshop. 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:34.320 We're like, yippee, we're signing. 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:37.279 So we signed up, and that was our first store in London. 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:44.559 So then we got into retail, and at the same time as we started getting into retail, we decided to buy back our distribution. 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:55.279 So then we took back Japan, we took back Singapore, we took back all of Europe, Spain, Germany, France bit by bit, took back the US, and we bought them back, which is unusual. 00:12:55.440 --> 00:13:01.600 We didn't just take them back, and that was important to us because it meant that our distributors were investing in something they'd get a return on. 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:08.879 So we couldn't do it all in one go because they had to get the money to be able to buy them back, and then at the same time as buying back distribution, we then introduced retail. 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:13.600 And then, of course, retail goes from bricks and mortar to now post-COVID online. 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:18.080 A very charismatic tale of a business in rapid growth. 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:25.840 Lots of posters around the offices of various leaders of men, Henry Ford, Japanese inventors. 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:39.200 Are they are these here to inspire or inspiration matters, and the most important thing you'll see in this factories on the other side of that wall, which is what why we come to work, and it says we create urban freedom for happier lives. 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:45.039 It doesn't say we make bicycles, it says urban freedom for happier lives. 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:49.279 And that is ferociously true and really important. 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:55.120 Many companies could put on that wall, we want to make our shareholders richer. 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:57.440 That's what they're actually doing. 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:00.480 And they might pretend they're doing something else, but they're not. 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:02.480 Their job is to make shareholders richer. 00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:10.399 Who's gonna get out of bed, work at the weekend, who's gonna not see their child, you know, who's gonna miss this stuff for a company if they're gonna make shareholders richer? 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:11.519 Not many. 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:17.600 And we are trying to do what's on the other side of that wall, and I think that is really, really important. 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:25.039 There is no doubt the shareholders that we have have become richer, but that is not the starting point. 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:28.720 That is a consequence, and they backed Andrew when nobody else

would. 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:42.240 Most of them are his friends, they're people that knew him as he went on his journey, and more recently we've evolved the shareholder group, but it's still an independent company where the mission comes first before anything else. 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.679 If we get the mission right, there will shareholder value will come. 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:53.840 But that's got to be at the end, after the mission, the customer, the staff, the supplier, and at the very back, the shareholder. 00:14:54.639 --> 00:15:01.679 There's also a classic sort of marketing 101 to be about the ultimate benefit, exactly the way you described having it in your twenties. 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:06.159 So the principle that you create urban freedom rather than making bicycles. 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:09.600 That's a classic marketing sleight of hand, isn't it? 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:10.879 But it's but it's not. 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:12.639 And that's what makes me die. 00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:14.559 Marketing makes me vomit. 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:16.879 Because you're saying sleight of hand. 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:17.360 That's the problem. 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:19.759 We're just awash with bullshit. 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:21.519 That's not bullshit, it's true. 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:22.639 That's a good challenge. 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.360 Um maybe that's the word marketing is too loaded. 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:27.120 Communication is what matters. 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:29.200 Integrity is what matters. 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:32.240 And if you want to find out whether that's true, just speak to some of our customers. 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:33.519 Don't come to us. 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:35.279 Because then you'll find out the truth. 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:40.159 But the problem with our politicians and with brands, they mostly spout crap. 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.679 It's over-exaggerated claims, and it turns out to be not true. 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.639 And that is that is not what Planet Earth needs. 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:53.200 What we need is better quality stuff, we need modesty, we need honesty, and if anything, we need to undersell. 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:56.080 So that you leave something on the table to delight your customer. 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:58.159 Because then they go, wow, this is better than I thought. 00:15:58.240 --> 00:15:59.279 When do you ever get that? 00:15:59.519 --> 00:15:59.919 Never. 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:09.759 Because you're told it's going to be amazing and your children are going to be well behaved, and your partner's going to be sexy, and you're going to lose like ten years of it's just mostly crap. 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:16.559 That's why I find it very joyful coming in here to the factory and seeing real people making things with pride. 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:22.320 Yes, people buy one of our products because they have a need for it. 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.679 But they love it because it's changed their life. 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:28.320 You know, I cannot live without that bike. 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:33.919 It has is it allowed me to be energetic, fit, healthy, happy. 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:35.519 It affects my mental health. 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.720 I can chuck in the back of the car, I came in this morning. 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:40.879 I I just couldn't live without it. 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:44.799 And and it it's it's not cheap, but I've had it forever. 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:46.639 And it fits into my life. 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:52.799 And the world is cr is is just under so much pressure because we're buying so much shit we don't need. 00:16:53.120 --> 00:17:04.640 We need to buy way less stuff and really focus our thoughts, our energies on buying delightful things that are repairable, that last long, that genuinely useful. 00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:12.720 But people, I mean, all these yellow storage centres popping up, it's a complete reaction to c crap consumerism. 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:19.279 People buying tons of stuff they don't need and then shoveling it into boxes that they're never going to see again. 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:27.759 I mean, we've got a climate crisis because we've made too much stuff, and then a whole load of our stuff just gets burnt or chucked into landfill. 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:35.119 I mean, it's all gone a bit wrong, and we need to row back and considered purchase. 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:39.839 Take your time, do your research, buy less things that are delightful. 00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:43.920 We design out obsolescence, we don't design it in. 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.640 We want people to repair their bike, to look after it. 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:49.039 We have spares for bikes that are 30 years old. 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:58.000 Because if you own a bike that's 30 years old, if you've been on journeys, you've been in the rain, you've met people, you've been to the pub, you know, whatever. 00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:02.319 You're gonna love that product so much, you're gonna never stop going on about it to all your friends. 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:12.319 Most companies are just so short-sighted they want to design the thing to break to force you to buy another one, and that is again not what the planet needs, nor what the customer needs. 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.759 Well, they say you should always be creating a customer rather than creating a sale. 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.720 Yeah, and really we're all getting a bit jaded. 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:24.400 Even though we do watch all this stuff on social media, we're sort of we're fairly sophisticated. 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:25.279 Well, maybe we're not. 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:34.880 You know, there's some theory that the big the big companies have got us by the shortened curlies, but one hopes we're a little bit sophisticated, because most of it we realise is over-exaggerated guff. 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:41.680 The thing that

you trust is when a friend of yours says, I tell you, I bought this, it's bloody awesome. 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:50.799 The only thing at the moment that I get totally excited about, which has changed my life really recently, has been an automatic mower. 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:58.160 And I and I have been like when the customers say to me, I've got I'm your best salesman, I must have sold about 20 bromes. 00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:00.720 I bought one of these little electric mowers, it's changed my life. 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:02.960 I'm not wasting my time walking up and down. 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.680 That thing is brilliant, but you know, there aren't many. 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:10.319 Most things you buy, you slightly wonder, in some cases, why the hell you ever bought it. 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:14.640 Um, how does the sort of corporate mood music change around you? 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:19.759 Because it's amazing to hear them described as grubby little bikes given the what's the top-end Brompton? 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:24.480 The average sale price is just under 2,000 quid for a Brompton. 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:30.000 And you'd start at just over a grand, and yes, we have a titanium electric bike that's six grand. 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.440 I mean, we don't sell very many, but if you want it, you can have it. 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.279 But that's not where it's at. 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:39.039 I mean, the thing I would articulate is do you have one of these? 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.279 I'm holding up a uh uh Apple phone. 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:42.079 Yes, I do. 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:43.039 Yeah. 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:44.400 How old is your phone? 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:45.359 Very old. 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:49.119 Well, today's Apple phone costs about the same as a Brompton. 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.559 And I mean, I don't need to say anymore, but it you won't have this phone in 20 years' time. 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.680 It won't make your mental health better, it'll probably make it worse. 00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:58.960 It's not going to make you fitter. 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.359 You probably won't live longer as a result of your phone. 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:02.559 You will if you ride a bike. 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:05.119 I mean, it's it is such a phenomenal investment. 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:09.839 There are people spending money to inject themselves to get thinner. 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:13.519 That is nuts, and there's billion pound businesses popping up. 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:15.440 Where, hold on a minute. 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:21.839 Walking, cycling, of course, in the extreme, we need medicine to help us. 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:23.279 Don't get me wrong. 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:40.960 But most of what we can shift the needle by changing how we go about our daily lives, by thinking a bit more about what we buy, by thinking a bit more about how we move, thinking a bit more about how we travel, and just weaving

in good stuff into our life, and we will have a happier life. 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:48.880 But, you know, we we still keep doing silly things, and so we are, we might have got bigger, but we're still tiny. 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:52.799 We should be doing more because we have such a positive impact on our customers. 00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:57.440 I mean, the thing that is exciting though is I've got a bike by my desk which is number nine. 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:00.319 I bought it off a custom, but there's using it. 00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:05.039 We are currently on about 1.3 million Brompton. 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:07.039 Every Brompton has a unique serial number. 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:14.559 So, you know, we may not be the biggest company, we've been around 50 years, and there are, you know, circa 1.3 million bikes out there. 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.079 That's that is a legacy, if nothing else, and that creates momentum. 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.559 And you say that Brompton isn't expensive, it is, but it's a phenomenal investment. 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:23.359 And guess what? 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.240 If you can't afford a new one, buy one that's 10 years old. 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.400 It's still got 20 years of life in it, and it'll cost you five or six hundred quid. 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:31.920 It'll change your life. 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:42.079 I'm gonna try not to call it marketing, but I think marketing is the correct umbrella phrase for the four P's product, price, place, and promotion. 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:50.480 It feels like product is 90% of the story, and not the product. 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.920 It's the impact of the product. 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:59.759 So you talk about promotion, the promotion is. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.079 You're talking about corporate to consumer. 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:07.920 That is, if you're having to do that, you're pushing water uphill. 00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:13.119 What you want to do is that your consumer is promoting your product. 00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:16.880 That is because the product has had an impact on the consumer. 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:25.039 And that is where you get a brand that starts to make profit because you're not having to pay someone because the product is doing the work for you. 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:29.359 But it is not the product that is the thing, it's what the product does for you. 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:35.759 The reason why we like this iPhone and we all spend lots of money on it, because actually it does things for us. 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:40.079 We're not interested in the phone, we're interested in what it does for us. 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:43.839 And I think that is what businesses need to think about. 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:48.000 How are they contributing to planet Earth in the broadest sense of the world? 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:49.519 How are we making it better? 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:51.599 Adding value to people's lives. 00:22:51.839 -->

00:23:00.559 If you get that right, and it genuinely does add value, and you let the value add drive the product development, then you're onto something. 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.240 Have you got an example of that last point? 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:11.279 The reason we have a bike, and let's put the electric titanium to one side, but I spent 15 years dreaming of this bike. 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:12.640 I mean, I dreamt about it. 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:21.119 I then went out to Moscow to start doing titanium just outside Moscow in what used to be the old Soviet military city to make titanium planes. 00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:24.480 And I started there and we developed this titanium bike. 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:26.480 Eventually we set up a joint venture. 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:28.880 We're now the largest titanium frame maker in Europe. 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:30.799 That bike is not cheap. 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.279 So it's you know three and a half grand. 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.319 It is unbelievably cool. 00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:39.839 It is so light, it is robust, it is strong. 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:41.759 It's an absolute joy. 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:43.119 It is an investment. 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:44.480 You have to save up for it. 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:49.279 But I have it over a three and a half grand car any day of the week. 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:51.119 I just love it. 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:58.640 And that was us ten years of development, setting up businesses, innovating the way we're making it, no one else is doing it in the world. 00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:06.960 And that is us using the absolute extreme bounds of engineering to deliver something that weighs seven and a half kilos, not twelve. 00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:10.480 And it's transformational for a product like ours. 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:13.759 And then, different thing, electric. 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.440 We need to make an electric drive. 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.880 Bikes are going electric, but you've got to carry ours, it needs to be small. 00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:20.319 So what did we do? 00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:24.240 We didn't go to Bosch because they were making big, fat, heavy motors. 00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.720 We went to Williams F1. 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:28.000 Because guess what? 00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:32.319 Every F1 car had a KERS system in it, kinetic energy recovery system. 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:42.799 Every corner they went into, they turned a motor into a dynamo, sucked up that energy, put it into a battery, come around the corner, turn the dynamo into a motor, zoom, extra acceleration, off they went. 00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:49.279 That F1 industry had created very powerful, very light motors, control systems, and batteries. 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:51.519 So we got an Innovate UK grant. 00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:58.319 We went into F1 through Williams and sucked out that insight and developed our own motor, inverter, and controller. 00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:00.640 And that is now what we have developed into our bikes. 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.559 And it's it's pretty damn good. 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:09.759 So using engineering to make the bike more useful, and that's what you should be doing. 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:10.799 Start with useful. 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:13.119 Don't think, oh, we can do it, and we can make more money. 00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:16.160 Oh yes, oh, and we can make it last and then break. 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:20.240 Like, you know, you're not gonna build a brand because a brand is trust. 00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:21.599 That's all it is. 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:22.720 It's trust. 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.880 We say brand, but really what we're talking about is do you do people trust you or not? 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:28.880 Tell me a bit more about that. 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:33.599 Because I I agree with you, but people don't often articulate it in that way. 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:39.839 If you're gonna recommend anything to a friend, you've got to believe in it, you've got to trust it. 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:48.799 And you know, if you're on a bike, which is hard bike, and it's 10 years old, maybe it's 15 years old, you're whizzing down Nossing Hill, it breaks. 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:50.720 Then what? 00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:55.200 Then you're colliding into the tarmac, you smash your front teeth, you might break your pelvis. 00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:58.480 If you're lucky, there isn't a truck behind you that hits you, and then you're dead. 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.200 So there better be some trust there, otherwise, it's not funny. 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.680 We've got 1.3 million bikes out there in America, in Japan. 00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:12.400 Think about the the liability with all those bikes. 00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:14.240 There needs to be trust. 00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:16.240 And you are buying that trust. 00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.720 That's why you go to a brand, you trust it. 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:21.920 But you don't trust it because of their marketing spiel. 00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:26.000 You trust it because other people trust it. 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.000 It's built trust over 20, 30, 40 years. 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:32.960 That's credible brand trust. 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:37.200 And as we all know, it takes a long time to build that trust. 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.720 It does not e it doesn't take long to break it. 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:43.599 So you corrected me when I talked about marketing earlier. 00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:46.319 You corrected me and said communication. 00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:47.039 Right. 00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:52.400 Tell me about communication and what do you communicate or how do you help customers communicate? 00:26:52.640 --> 00:27:02.960 We're so lucky because when we were little and we were very little, I mean, our marketing budget was like 60 grand, we couldn't afford marketing quite serious, simple as that. 00:27:03.119

--> 00:27:15.119 So the marketing was in Andrew's first bikes, a little what looked like a business card, a traditional little business card with a hole in it, and he got a tie wrap and stuck about 20 of them on the back of the saddle. 00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.799 So whenever you're wandering around and somebody said, Oh, that's a bit weird, what's that? 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:24.000 No trouble, poof, pull one of the business cards off the back of the saddle, give it to the customer. 00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:28.240 And then we had customers ring up and say, I've run out of my little cards, can you send me some more? 00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:31.279 Word of mouth, and we made it easier for them. 00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:32.480 It's now called a recommendation. 00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:34.799 You have an app and you get a little bit of a kickback. 00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:49.119 So communication is very important, and today, one of the reasons Brompton has succeeded is because we focus on that impact and experience of the customer. 00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:54.960 But at the same time that we did that, social media, email started. 00:27:55.200 --> 00:28:05.119 And so, for the first time, in the old days, if you had something that was amazing, you'd tell your family, you'd tell your colleagues at work, but that was about your reach. 00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:08.799 But then suddenly in the early noughties, guess what? 00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:12.559 You could write something and other people would read it all over the world. 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:21.680 And actually, in the first 10 to 15 years of the internet and social media, it hadn't been messed up by big corporates, so it was quite true. 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:26.640 The algorithms hadn't come in and it wasn't all sort of chasing you down every time you looked at anything. 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:32.319 So people believed what they read, and they were right to, because there was a lot more honesty and integrity there. 00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:42.079 And so we caught, we were lucky, or I was lucky, because I arrived at Brompton just at the moment that social media began, and we had a product that genuinely did good things for people. 00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:49.440 So the combination of the two meant our reach through our customers went way, way bigger than anything we could ever afford. 00:28:49.599 --> 00:29:00.960 And today we try, I would still argue, not enough, to take content that our customers create, refine it, but it's the same content. 00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:10.000 But maybe if they created something that was, you know, 90 seconds long, we can curate it down to 15, 20 seconds long and then spit it out again. 00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:13.680 But it's not us creating the content, it's our customers. 00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:15.920 That to me is way more credible. 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:23.519 We do still create our own content, which I always challenge, but I get pushback from people who are better than me. 00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:29.519 But my inclination would personally, all of it would be created by our customers. 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:31.519 And what about things then? 00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:37.200 I'm conscious that you've there's been a typeface initiative recently, for example. 00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:40.160 I don't really give a stuff. 00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:44.240 I mean, I don't really care about the typeface. 00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:54.240 What you want to do is make it easy to consume, make it crisp, make it clean, cut the waffle, don't bore people with all this other stuff. 00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:56.559 So if that helps that, great. 00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:58.079 But do I really care? 00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:02.079 No, I just want a simple, clean, honest message. 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.960 And that's that's part of that journey? 00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:05.519 Great. 00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:06.799 Andrew was brilliant. 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:12.400 He started designing the bike in 1975, didn't make any that he could sell until 1980. 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:20.480 So it took him five years, and then it took him another eight years really before he got going properly. 00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:24.000 So it took him nearly 13 years to even start. 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:28.000 That gave him 13 years to make mistakes, refine it, refine it. 00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:39.359 Elegant design is a refinement to the simplest, most simple, uncomplex, elegant solution. 00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:41.119 Communication is the same. 00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:43.599 The less you communicate, the better. 00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:54.960 The less adjectives, the less waffle, you know, but it takes time and takes thought to refine things down and have a really clean, simple message. 00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:57.759 And um, that I'm interested in. 00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:01.839 Typeface, if that helps us, but I'm not going to jump up and down about typeface. 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:05.039 How involved are you with initiatives like that then? 00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:09.279 Because I'm not directly involved unless it makes me want to vomit. 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:13.599 Which point I'll just say, you know, I'll just contribute. 00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:15.680 But I I've recruited people better than me. 00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:17.440 So I've got to respect their judgment. 00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.279 You don't recruit someone and tell them what to do. 00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:20.319 That's a bit potty. 00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:23.440 You recruit people, you give them the opportunity to go for it. 00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:29.599 Unless it's in the extreme, I will I'll support them, I'll try and give a little bit of guidance. 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.880 It's mostly when we start believing our own bullshit that I need to get involved. 00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:38.079 And that is, you know, modesty is so important. 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:43.200 We have something in our in our people team that

Brompton does not employ egos. 00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:49.839 And Chris William, who's running up our marketing, you know, he is not an ego, and that's quite hard in marketing. 00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:54.319 So it's important, and that comes with modesty about how you communicate. 00:31:54.480 --> 00:32:04.720 You're not exaggerating your claims, you're not, you know, you just be a little bit modest and sort of delightfully British and leave a little bit to the surprise and the delight when you get the product. 00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:12.720 Do you consider yourself in competition with any other products or any other and and who are they? 00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:17.759 The car, the tube, line bikes, the bus, other bikes. 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:19.839 I put other bikes pretty low down. 00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:34.000 Yeah, I mean, you know, there are millions of people who decide entirely beyond me to pay money to go under the ground in a dump hole of a metal tube. 00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.440 And if it's not the Elizabeth line, it's probably carcinogenic. 00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:39.599 It's all fairly vile. 00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:48.000 And in probably 20% of the cases, they could actually walk to where they were going faster, but no, no, they choose to pay to go under the ground. 00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:53.279 In 70%, 80% of cases, you could cycle there faster. 00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:55.599 But the mindset is not there. 00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:02.400 So we have not done a good enough job to communicate how unbelievably awesome this thing is. 00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:06.559 The bicycle, the most efficient mode of transport ever invented. 00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:08.160 Forget SpaceX. 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:10.319 It's the humble bicycle. 00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:11.359 And guess what? 00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:21.359 If the bicycle is the most efficient mode of transport ever invented, which it is, the electric bike is the most efficient electric mode of transport ever invented. 00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:30.559 We do not need flying bloody people mobiles, drones in cities making loads of noise and falling out of the sky. 00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:35.200 We have bicycles and we need to do more exercise because the NHS is dying. 00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:40.640 We cannot fund the sort of medical and health outcomes we've created in our society. 00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:41.839 We do not have the money. 00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:47.279 So we need to shift how we think we're going to live to have a society that's viable. 00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:49.920 And at the moment it is not viable. 00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:51.920 My father is 87. 00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:57.839 He grew up on rations, he climbed trees, he went to school on a bike. 00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:01.759 I mean, he basically just did what the hell he liked and didn't eat sweets. 00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:07.200 That generation are on their way out, and the NHS is struggling. 00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:13.840 You wait till the next slots start clocking out because that is an absolute truckload of problems. 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:15.119 The NHS will crumble. 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:18.800 We, the taxpayer, do not have enough money to fund what's coming down the track. 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.159 So we need to change how we think we live our lives. 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.719 And it's not we go jabs. 00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:27.280 It's positive living. 00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:38.079 And it's about urban design, it's about creating an environment which encourages people to walk, to cycle, to be active, to be in the fresh air, which is good for your mind. 00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:42.079 And you know, so we don't need HS2. 00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:42.960 Can that? 00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:45.920 And let's make our cities livable, lovely cities. 00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:50.639 Tempting as it is to close there, because that's a rather heroic call to arms. 00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:52.079 Well, what happens next? 00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:56.559 What happens in this building or for the business globally or for you? 00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:01.119 So all we really want to do is create urban freedom for happier lives. 00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:02.400 Now, how do we progress with that? 00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:05.440 We progress with that by using technology. 00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:10.639 And the amazingly exciting thing is, technology is moving very fast. 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:26.159 In many respects, thanks to having powerful computers, which everyone calls AI, but really it's just a very powerful computer, that allows us to optimize design, design of software, design of circuit boards, design of bike, it affects material science. 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:36.559 So the opportunity for us to take something that people think hasn't changed for 50 years but has changed tons in 50 years and make it even better is significant. 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:49.039 And beyond that, I believe we will continue, sadly, to face more challenges in how we live on planet Earth. 00:35:49.199 --> 00:36:00.159 Cycling was a bit of a joke for politicians for a long time, and it still sadly is, because the amount of money spent on cycling infrastructure versus car infrastructure is just a joke. 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:12.559 But what has changed in London, in Paris, in Shanghai, in New York, cities all over the world are putting in cycle lanes and they're putting in incentives like cycle to work seeking to encourage people to cycle. 00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:13.679 Now, why are they doing that? 00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:17.599 That's not because they're interested in cycling, it's because the penny has finally dropped. 00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:22.880 If we want to save on health, cycling is a way to do it. 00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:26.559 So that that momentum is still coming. 00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:32.239 There is a lot of government money going into changing cities to make them more cycling friendly. 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:35.119 So is there any cap on your ambition? 00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:38.400 I mean, it's grown almost a hundredfold since you took over. 00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:41.440 Is there another hundred X left? 00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:46.159 So we'd be at 170 million, we're at 125, so I haven't quite got to 100. 00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:47.760 I've occasionally done the maths. 00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:54.000 But Warren Buffett, I read a book called Buffetology when I was at university and bought some B shares. 00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:55.199 Sadly, I sold them. 00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:56.239 What an idiot. 00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:57.840 Anyway, hindsight. 00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:04.159 Warren Buffett, compound growth is a beautiful thing, and I think that is really, really important. 00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:15.199 So, you know, we live in a world of unicorns and footballers, and it's all gonna happen overnight, we're all gonna be millionaires, and and the reality is that just isn't the way the world works. 00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:20.239 You have to work very hard and you have to be patient, and it's compound growth. 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.679 The last four or five years for us have been really tough. 00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:27.360 Our sector has gone through an absolute colossal implosion. 00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:33.679 I mean, it's just a litany, just litany, literally, litany of sadly, businesses going under. 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.719 So we just need to do a good job. 00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:38.159 Look after our customers. 00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:42.159 I'm frustrated that we're not having a bigger impact because we should. 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:50.800 But you need to take where you are and do the best you can based upon the reality that you are in, but never lose your ambition. 00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:52.239 And that's where we are at the moment. 00:37:52.400 --> 00:38:00.079 We are having to be careful because the sector is tough, and we're having to look after every penny and our cash flow and all these sorts of things. 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:12.079 But this business, and I'm I'm a curator of this business, I'll look after it for a bit and pass it on to someone else, should be still here in 50 years' time because it's doing good things for planet Earth. 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:14.400 That is fascinating. 00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:15.840 Thank you very much. 00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:16.880 My pleasure. 00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:18.559 Thank you for listening. 00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:25.519 Next time, we are going to take a break from our mission to break bread and talk brand with Chief Execs and Founders. 00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:38.159 We'll be reporting instead from the IPA effectiveness conference, covering everything from our Grand Prix winner to a far side chat with nationwide CMO Richard Warren, and even a light sprinkling of Lesbina.