บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Creating Belonging - With Kate Kelly - Intentionally Intentional Leaders

bike. 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:14.800 And I remember the feeling of leaving my driveway for the first time. 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:19.920 And we lived in a neighborhood that, I mean, at that time we you could just take off. 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:25.439 And there was a pack of neighborhood kids, and I got to be a part of that pack. 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:35.920 And there was a level of independence and freedom that I remember what it feels like now, even as a young person. 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:54.240 And it felt like the time where I just started to understand, and I had absolutely no words for it then, but the zone of proximal development where you stretch just to the part where you're like, maybe I'm going too far, you know, or maybe I shouldn't go off the ramp that the 12-year-old boys are going off of. 00:04:54.480 --> 00:05:00.480 But it was one opportunity after another where I started making choices for myself. 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:06.000 So and really kind of pushing the limit just a little bit. 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:08.959 I have one brother and he's three years older. 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:14.639 And so my whole life, I just wanted to go where he was going and do what he was doing. 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:18.399 And so there was the sense of independence, the sense of freedom. 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:22.800 And then that sense of belonging, I don't think it happens as much anymore. 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:25.360 But our neighborhood was like a little gang. 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:26.000 Yeah. 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:31.920 There was you could be six or you could be 12 or 13, you could be a boy or a girl. 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:33.439 It didn't really matter. 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:38.079 And so if you could ride your bike and keep up, you got to be a part of it. 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:39.920 So there was a sense of belonging too. 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:42.399 So that's my first instinct, I think. 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:45.120 That was a real cool feeling. 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:47.360 Yeah, it's maybe it's amazing. 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:51.759 I had a very similar experience too, but it's hard. 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:58.240 I mean, it's hard to just sit in the fact that bicycles for our generation were just freedom. 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:01.839 Like absolutely just get to go, and it's not that way anymore. 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:10.160 No, I think it's a real loss because for us, it was I feel like it was still safe. 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:13.120 I don't think that we were doing things that were unsafe. 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:13.600 Yeah. 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:16.399 So it was just like a little push, little push, you know. 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:22.959 And when you're six, I wasn't taking off and going as far as the big kids all the time because I was like, oh, that's probably not a good idea. 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:27.519 So you started to rely on some of your judgment a little bit too. 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:28.240 Yeah. 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:28.800 Yep. 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:41.920 But when Beth and I were running camp, we used to say our pitch about camp was that we teach kids how to make decisions in a safe environment and give them a chance to practice making good decisions, really was the line. 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:46.639 And it's like, it's hard when kids don't get that opportunity to practice this stuff as much. 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:47.279 Yes. 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:49.839 And I think that's for everybody at camp. 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:54.480 You get dozens of opportunities to say, Am I gonna push myself here? 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:58.160 You know, and I think it's like the tiny little things that happen at camp. 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:09.839 You've got a kid, and it's like the free choice period, and all their friends are going to cooking, but they really want to go to high ropes and they go to cooking, you know, and then you sit there at cooking and you're like, Oh, that wasn't very brave. 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:12.480 But the next day you get to make a different choice. 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:14.959 Yeah, and that's what I think is so cool about camp. 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:21.759 It's like opportunity after opportunity to say, okay, uh this time I'm gonna push a little bit. 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:22.480 Right. 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:23.120 Right. 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:24.000 Well, that's great. 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:25.600 Bicycles, good way to start. 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:27.439 Yes, yes. 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:31.439 The next role gives us a seven. 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:43.600 This is a definitely more camp focused memory question, but for you, who modeled the kind of leadership that you strive to embody yourself as a leader at camp? 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:45.120 That's an interesting one. 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:47.040 Can I go to a sports team? 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:48.240 Of course, yeah, yeah. 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:50.959 Okay, so a little bit. 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:52.560 But leadership, so yes. 00:07:52.639 --> 00:08:00.240 I didn't know if you wanted me to go to my camp background, but I had I went to horseback riding camp, which is so wild because I I'm not sure why that happened. 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:08.480 I think a friend was going and my mom sent me along, and the camp director there was really fun and joyful and energetic. 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:15.519 And I think I was probably seven or eight, and I have really strong memories of wanting to be near him. 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:19.680 And I was like, there's something really joyful about that person. 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:30.639 So that's one memory, but I have had probably a dozen coaches that have each given an aspect of leadership and probably in a different way. 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:40.240 My college coach, he could figure out what made every single person motivated, which I think is really amazing. 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:44.480 And it translated to camp for me in

a lot of ways with the staff. 00:08:44.720 --> 00:08:49.039 But you know, it's not looking at every person and saying, okay, this is how we do it. 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:54.960 It was like looking at Travis and saying, What is going to give me the very best out of Travis? 00:08:55.200 --> 00:09:00.720 And I took that with me everywhere that I went because I thought that that was a really unique skill. 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:01.440 Yeah. 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:08.240 It's something we talk often about on the Kip Archer podcast, is how we get staff to develop that noticing skill. 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:23.279 Like it's great when you, you know, you you take it and run with it and pick up on the things, but it's just the act of practicing that kind of noticing is it just takes a little work to figure out how to I don't know, concentrate that hard, but just find that in people. 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:31.200 I think but camp lends itself to that when you take away some of the distractions, you know, obviously, first of all, the phones are gone. 00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:47.279 But when you train somebody to look at another person's face and to know their name, yeah, it's I think it comes naturally faster than you'd think, even if it was a little unnatural at first. 00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:58.480 But if that's the expectation in your culture, is that everybody gets to be seen here, and you're gonna know every person's name, that it makes a really big difference. 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:11.519 And I think if I'm sitting there looking at you and I'm curious about you and I'm like wondering what makes Travis tick, then I think that kind of community and culture is created out of that. 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:17.600 Like Travis is a really unique and special person with his own history, and I want to know it. 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:22.799 And that was kind of what I got from from my coach Steve in in college. 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:24.000 That's great. 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:24.960 That's wonderful. 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:37.519 Is there stuff that not in reaction to, but is there stuff that you purposely did a little different from Steve, or that you you kind of think is Steve was a jumping off point to doing something a little different? 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:43.200 I think I really had a lot of coaches and I had a lot of teachers that I really liked too. 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:44.879 I mean, I'm a total nerd. 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:50.639 I loved school, you know, I'm one of those people on that personality test that is super high in conscientiousness. 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.639 So whatever I was doing, I really wanted to be good at it and to do it. 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.000 So, and I was just naturally an observer. 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:22.559 So I think if you have some of those components, I was always watching to figure out how did the teacher get everybody's attention, or you know, because you have some teachers that everybody is just riveted, you know, you want each it's either the tone of their voice or the cadence of their speech, or and so I think that I that I was always curious, and I just observed each of those people and said, you know, what is their superpower? 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:23.679 And like, could I take it? 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:25.039 And some of them you can't. 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:46.720 I mean, you know, there are people that just have a unique talent, and you're like, I'll try that on, and you're like, nope, that's not that's not my skill, yeah, but I do like that, and I learn from people at camp all the time, you know how you get lots of people that come through and you just think, Oh, that was amazing, you know, or they do that in a different way than I have ever done it. 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:55.840 So yeah, I think that lifelong learning is is a fun component to camp because you it's a playground for learning, right? 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:56.720 Right. 00:11:57.039 --> 00:11:57.759 I agree. 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:00.480 Next role 13. 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:02.799 Oh, I don't know about that, Travis. 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:04.080 Oh, okay. 00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:12.320 What was the first time that you folks had a real enrollment spike or slump one year after the other? 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:16.799 And what did it teach you about families trust in you? 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:18.159 That's interesting. 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:25.519 So we've had a progression that's gone climbing up a hill since when we started at Wakwick, it was relatively small. 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:30.720 It had its heyday and had been super successful and had taken a slump. 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:34.240 So when we got there, it was in a lower period. 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:38.159 And I don't think that we've had a massive spike. 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:44.000 And I think that what we've tried to do is create amazing for the people that are in front of us. 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:49.679 Whether, you know, Cole does that for the parents, I try and do it for the staff, our staff do it for our kids. 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:58.320 So I think that there's, I mean, in my opinion, you create trust with a thousand tiny decisions and actions. 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.600 And that's what I think we've been good at and that we like. 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:09.600 And it's moment to moment, it's conversation to conversation, it's a high level of candor and honesty. 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:13.200 And my husband Cole is fantastic at that. 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:20.639 He is gonna be really honest with you and where your kid is at, and if we can help them to be successful or not. 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:31.200 And so I think people really appreciate that when they tell you when Cole tells you something, he's sincere and it's true. 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:35.200 And I think that makes a really big difference for people in any relationship. 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:40.559 I mean, in of course, uh friendship,

uh, camp, all of it across the board. 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:41.519 Right. 00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:43.600 Yeah, that's great. 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:44.639 I appreciate that. 00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:53.360 I wanted to take a second, Kate, before we move into the insight section and just ask you about the new book that you folks have put out. 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:57.440 Okay, well, it's 25 years in the making, so finally we've done it. 00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:59.120 Yeah, it started for us. 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:06.000 Cole and I, we had a mutual friend, and she said for three years, she told me you have to meet Cole Kelly. 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:08.799 And I said, Cole Kelly, he lives in Georgia. 00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:10.559 Like, why would I meet Cole Kelly? 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:13.840 I lived in Boston at the time, and I was working at camp. 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:14.960 I had one day off. 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:17.519 Thanks, Jay and Mark, topper off at Danby. 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:18.000 That was it. 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:21.919 July 31st was my one day off the whole summer as their head counselor. 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:29.360 And I sent Cole an email, and I just said, Hey, I don't know where you're at, but Briarly's, you know, making me like reach out to you. 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:34.240 And we were engaged seven months later and married uh four months after that. 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:38.639 So we had dated long distance all of that time. 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:49.759 And so what happened and it evolved just really naturally for us was every single night we would say three things that we were happy about and one thing we appreciated about the other person. 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:55.039 And it was really just to learn about each other and to stay connected. 00:14:55.200 --> 00:15:03.039 I there was no grand plan, and it wasn't out of like the Gottman research or you know, Seligma, like we hadn't done any of that yet. 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:12.320 All of the research came after, and we just kept thinking, you know, the more we read, we were like, oh, this supports what we do, this supports what we do. 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:16.000 And we haven't missed a day in 25 years. 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:26.320 And what we realized over that was that we had this massive database of information that you probably wouldn't naturally share. 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:34.080 So there were about 15 things that we said, okay, both of us are focusing on being grateful. 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:47.519 That's one of our primary values in our life and at camp, is that it's not something you say, it's a practice, you know, whether you're writing it down, it's a journal, you're saying it to somebody, that's where it changes your life. 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:50.639 And so that has been really impactful for us. 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:56.960 And we're scanning all day for something to say at the end of the day that you appreciate. 00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:02.960 And I

mean, we've had to do almost 10,000 of them, and you're not gonna say the same thing over and over. 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:23.840 And so really the focus is I'm looking at Cole and all day I'm like, oh, I appreciate you brought the garbage up, or oh, that was so nice that he did this, or and then you say it because what I found, you know, as we had kids and you're running to baseball and you're picking, you know, I mean, you know, the madness of it. 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:24.639 Yeah, yeah. 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:37.759 It's not that you fall out of love, it's that you fall out of the good habits and communicating and you think the thing, you know, I would think, oh, that was nice that Cole picked up the groceries so I could go for a walk. 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:45.919 But what happened over time for us is you know, Cole's happy would consistently be golf or something connected to golf. 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:52.639 And so, you know, as a person who loves him, I would constantly be looking for ways to encourage him to go do that. 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.279 Yeah, you know, where maybe I wouldn't have known that. 00:16:55.360 --> 00:17:04.640 Or one time he said, I'm so appreciative that you changed the sheets because he travels a ton and he's like, I just love to come home and they're clean sheets. 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:08.160 And I thought to myself, it takes me five minutes. 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:10.319 Like it is so, but it's so easy. 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:19.680 Yeah, it's so so much of it is so easy, but there's this really virtuous cycle that happens when you're scanning for goodness. 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:21.920 You know, it's like you probably did this at camp. 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:28.880 I think we all do it where you had say everybody look for something blue in the room, you know, and everybody looks for something blue, and then you say, close your eyes. 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:30.400 Now tell me everything that's red. 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:31.759 And they're like, What? 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:32.720 I don't know. 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:35.839 Well, because you see what you're looking for, right? 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:40.720 So that was, I mean, as we've gotten older, I mean, we're both really curious people. 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:45.839 We love podcasts, we love listening to books, we love all of the purpose and meaning. 00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:55.759 And we just thought we have to share this because it's undergirded a marriage that has been such a blessing in our life. 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:57.759 And we we've done it with our kids. 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:09.119 And when you sit at the kitchen table, and you know, when you listen to your six-year-old in the car go, I've already got my happies, you know, and you think, oh man, like you, it's the mindset for you. 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:13.839 Like, I've already got you looking at the world, thinking about what am I grateful for? 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:15.680 And it's it's amazing. 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:26.480 And our young men, I mean, we're all not perfect, nobody is, but when you create those habits, you know, it's the same as the atomic habits, it's it's five minutes, you know. 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:33.759 You don't need to buy our book, like we have we have both of them, and they're available on Amazon, but you need to just make a commitment to it. 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:39.359 And yeah, if you don't have five minutes for your marriage, you're in really big trouble. 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:39.920 Yep. 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:52.079 And it is, it's uncomfortable at first for people because you're stopping and you're looking, and every day you're putting down your phone, no matter what we're doing or where we are. 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:57.920 If cool's in China, he's gonna text it to me and say, These are my happies, this is what I appreciate about you. 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:07.519 And it could be something giant, like I appreciate what an intentional mom you are, you know, or it could be I appreciate that you did all the dishes. 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:18.480 And you know, that that has created just this really rich, warm feeling in our house, and I wish everybody could do it. 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:20.160 Yeah, that's great. 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:25.119 We appreciate you telling us about it so folks can go to Amazon to get the books. 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:26.640 What's the difference between the two books? 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:28.960 One is for families and one is for couples. 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:30.079 Oh, right on. 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:40.160 So it just yeah, kind of explains it's a little bit different when you're doing it with kids, but yes, for a kid to sit at your table and they have to say something they appreciate about somebody else. 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:48.240 Yeah, it's a pretty great thing for them to look across the table at the brother that they've been fighting with and say, I appreciate that Cole, let me play with his Legos. 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:50.079 You know, it's like okay. 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:53.359 You so it's a great practice for everybody. 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:55.119 That's wonderful. 00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:57.359 Well, I appreciate you telling us about it. 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:00.319 Let's go back to the question. 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:02.640 So we're moving on to the insight section. 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.200 Okay, just a reminder, you have a skip and a flip if you ever want to use that. 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:08.640 Okay, yeah. 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:13.759 And question number 19. 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:18.799 So, for you, what voices have you learned to turn down in your life? 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:20.799 Oh, that's interesting. 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:26.319 I was very fortunate to have parents that were incredibly supportive. 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:34.640 And I wanted to be with my older brother all the time, and my family was set up that if he mowed the

lawn, then I was mowing the lawn. 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:41.680 I mean, I was the kid, you know, it's above your head where you're like, yes, because I was like, I just want if I was emptying the dishwasher, he was. 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:45.839 So I didn't have a lot from my home that I had to quiet down. 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:50.960 I felt very supported and loved and encouraged at home. 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:54.319 I I think I don't have any social media, Travis. 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.960 I don't have, I don't engage in any of that. 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:06.000 I've been very careful about the input in my life and you know, from what I watch to what we listen to to what I read. 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:16.079 So I guess I would say I know myself pretty well to know that if I jumped into that, it would be super addictive to me. 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:18.720 And I just so I stay away from that. 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:27.119 So I would say anything that's gonna make my nervous system go crazy, like the social media, that I'd really just stay away all together. 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:28.240 Right. 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:29.759 Very cool. 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:30.480 Yeah. 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:31.839 It's I don't know. 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:42.400 I think when you know yourself as you get a little bit older, you're like, I just don't have the discipline to, you know, if I got into some news feeder, you know, and they algorithm you, so they'd be feeding me whatever makes me. 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:43.119 Yeah. 00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:47.039 So I just that would that would be what I turned down. 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:47.920 Right. 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:48.799 Amazing. 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:49.680 Amazing. 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.000 Next question is uh question eleven. 00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:59.440 What have you over time, what have you folks become more? 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.400 Thoughtful about or intentional about in your communication with families? 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:12.319 I would say really intentional preparation in the weeks leading up to camp. 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:29.680 So, Cole, we created a year or two ago six postcards when we tried to think about what are the things that happen at camp that if you had thought about it or you felt prepared for wouldn't be so dramatic. 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:31.839 And you know, like going to bed. 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:40.720 So there are six postcards you get one a week, six weeks before you come that say, here's something that's gonna happen at camp. 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:45.039 You know, you're gonna go to sleep and it it's going to be challenging sometimes. 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:48.319 And so think of two things with your family, like brainstorm. 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:52.480 What are two things that you'll have by the side of your bed, or what's one phrase that you'll say to yourself? 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:58.720 And you know, we have a homesickness one, we have uh, how do you ask for help and advocate for yourself? 00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:12.400 So the ones where I think that we felt like we could help prepare, and it really made a big difference, I think, for the families and the kids that sat down and said, it's not if you get homesick, it's when you get homesick. 00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:14.000 You know, how do we handle that? 00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:20.400 And it's super normal, and you know, all of the things and where do you where are the resources that are there for you? 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:24.960 I think it it made a smoother transition, particularly in those first couple of days. 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:26.319 That's remarkable. 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:40.240 The so much of my work has been trying to get camps to communicate more with parents, but then once you get into that, it's just to to level up that intentionality with each more and more of that communication. 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:40.960 Right. 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.680 And it's great, it feels really good to not be surprised. 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:56.720 Yes, you know, even as an adult, but particularly as a kid, if you come in and you're like, oh, you know, I have this really sad or sinking feeling, I kind of knew that was gonna happen. 00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:01.440 You know, it doesn't make it not real, but I think it makes it a little bit less scary. 00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:02.720 Yeah. 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:12.559 And it will have made them think about different points in the day instead of camp being a big black box of whatever it was that sold them on it, but it's just a black box. 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:13.200 Yeah. 00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:13.839 Right. 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:14.319 Yeah. 00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:15.039 That's great. 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:16.640 What an amazing practice. 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:17.599 I love that one. 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:21.519 What if your technology could help you lead more intentionally? 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:25.119 Think about what you're already trying to be intentional about at your camp. 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:38.880 Reducing staff burnout, managing operational overhead, making sure every camper gets the activities you promised when their parents enrolled them, feeling confident that you can enroll more campers with the activities and the staff that you have. 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:48.240 Camptivity Scheduling Engine 8 handles more variables, solves much more complex scheduling challenges, makes the entire schedule easier to manage. 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:55.359 With more data and cleaner insights along the way, you can see what's happening, understand why, and build better schedules faster. 00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:59.200 And when the weather changes, you can pivot without starting over. 00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:07.599 So instead of building and rebuilding schedules, your team can spend that time leading, developing staff, and focusing on the camper experience. 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:12.799 Add

camptivities to your tech stack and give yourself another tool for intentional leadership. 00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:14.000 Camptivities. 00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:17.200 Smarter scheduling, more insight, less work. 00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:19.920 Visit camptivities.com to get started. 00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:21.839 Question number eight. 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:32.880 Did you folks have some form of an operational efficiency that you were working towards that you started to do it and you realized that it just went against your culture? 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:41.680 Is there stuff you're trying to be more efficient at or or or change the way it worked, and you just gave it a try and said, nah, this isn't the way we want to do things. 00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:46.559 Okay. 00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:47.440 Okay. 00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:49.759 Well, yeah, so here is one. 00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:57.359 I mean, this came when the research started to come out about especially about teens that they really need to start their day later. 00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:00.079 They function better when they start their day better. 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:07.200 And and we did so we had a a session that was just for teens with 13 to 16 year olds. 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:11.440 And so we could do these little experiments because they were shorter sessions than yours. 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:16.000 But we had night owl owls hours for that particular thing. 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:20.079 And you know, the research said their bodies kind of wake up two hours after everybody. 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:26.880 So we we pushed camp right by two hours, and uh we did it, it was just like an eight-day experiment. 00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:34.559 But we pushed camp, you got up two hours later, you stayed up tours, and the kids loved it, and the staff were just like this is killer. 00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:46.079 We do the adjustment in the time zone, and then everybody who had like office work to do and they wouldn't be in the office till 10, and all these things was like he had in your kitchen, was it hard on your kitchen? 00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:47.519 Oh, it's terrible in the kitchen. 00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:48.960 Yeah, it was terrible. 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:51.279 And we ended up we kind of split the difference. 00:26:51.440 --> 00:27:02.640 We ended up at one hour shift, and I was like, Okay, like that was a difference, but two hours was killer, and I think it probably was better for the kids, but you just couldn't nobody could sustain it, yeah. 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:03.519 Sure. 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:05.200 Okay, I thought of mine. 00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:07.279 We do bunk logs at night. 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:17.200 I don't know if everybody does that, but the counselors sit down together, and it was a really it still is a really comprehensive document at the end of every single day. 00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:23.839 So they're writing every kid that they have, the high of the day, if they had a low, they're writing any information about them. 00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:33.359 So I'm gonna know, Travis, if you went to the health center, if you have, if you were afraid of the ropes course, like they're it's really comprehensive, and they do their gratitude journal on that. 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.599 So at the end, they're writing the things that they were grateful for, something they appreciate about someone. 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:39.920 And it is very time consuming. 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:46.720 And we've tried to shorten it and make it, you know, you're like, oh, it's hard at the end of the day, they want to get out of there. 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:53.599 You know, you're trying to not make it onerous on the counselors, and every time that we shorten it, we go back. 00:27:53.839 --> 00:28:00.480 And it's too valuable and it's too important for the counselors that time together. 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:08.559 I mean, it's almost like in a marriage, you know, where you sit down and you're talking about the kids, and it's like you would say to me, Oh, I saw this, and I would say, Oh, but I saw that. 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:11.680 And so there's some collaboration and teamwork. 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:16.240 And Cole and I read every single one, every single night before we go to bed. 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:17.680 It doesn't matter what we're doing. 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:19.839 We circle things, we write on it. 00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:22.160 The division heads read them in the morning. 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:32.240 And so we just decided it's too important, and we'll give them time, we'll give them an hour off during the day, or you know, we'll let them stay out an hour later. 00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:36.319 Like we just thought every time that we've tried to do it, we go back to it. 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:36.960 So that's one. 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:45.599 I think we tried to get super efficient, and we were like, it is just too important for the care of the child and the experience to shorten it. 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:46.880 Right, right. 00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:49.200 How many kids at camp for a session? 00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:50.640 450. 00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:51.519 Yeah. 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:54.960 So I know, which is about the sweet spot. 00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:56.559 I would not want to be any bigger. 00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:08.480 I mean, yeah, if you're standing there, cool can tell you every kid their dog's name, like their parents, the siblings, like that's really important to us, is that it's relationship driven. 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:12.559 And so I think if we got any bigger, it would feel hard to do that. 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:15.039 So for us, that feels just about right. 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:15.920 And it's big enough. 00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:28.720 I mean, we love sports, and so it's big enough that we can have leagues, which is a really fun part of camp to have the kids get on a team, and you know, we've got basketball

leagues, the JV, the senior one, and it's intra camp, and people watch. 00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.920 And so if you get too small, you can't do that. 00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:33.759 And yeah, you know, so I don't know. 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:36.079 We just feel like we hit the sweet spot for us. 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:37.680 Yeah, that is great. 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:38.319 Very cool. 00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:42.079 One more insight role number two. 00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:51.680 What is a thing that you have learned to take less seriously about the job of being camp director? 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:53.200 Probably everything. 00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:55.279 I'm a really serious person. 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:01.839 I think I care a lot about all of it, the big parts and the little parts. 00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:03.359 It means a lot to me. 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:13.119 And so it's really hard to delegate, and it's really hard to let other people just take it and do it the way that they want. 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:17.759 And I know that they can do it just as well as I can in a totally different way. 00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:30.480 But I would say that that's probably the maybe don't take myself so seriously more than any specific thing, where you know, lots of people have a lot of ways to do things. 00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:43.839 So I just I like to work and I like to think, and I like it to be efficient and I like to be productive, and like it drives me absolutely bananas if our kids are waiting in line for food. 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:45.200 Like, I want it to be faster. 00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:46.480 I'm like, do we need to move the salsa? 00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:47.440 Do we need to do that? 00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:52.559 And sometimes it's like, okay, it's fine, like it's perfectly fine. 00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:55.039 They're chatting in line, like to talk to people. 00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:58.960 Everything doesn't have to be efficient, you know, to the nth degree. 00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:02.160 So I would say probably taking myself less seriously. 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:02.799 Okay. 00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:04.960 If that's if that's an answer. 00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:05.680 Yeah, yeah. 00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:06.559 Well, it totally is. 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.359 It totally is. 00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:16.319 So this is a Travis tangent, and my apologies to the listeners on that, but I this is something I'm really interested in based on what you said. 00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:23.680 You obviously we've been talking for this whole time about how intentional you folks are at camp. 00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:31.920 What is your process for training somebody to develop that kind of insight, that skill, that intention? 00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:42.160 I mean, you could break it into a small example of how you teach them to do whatever on the first day or whatever, but how how do you think about training them to do that? 00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:42.720 Yep. 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:45.279 So we have an incredibly long orientation. 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:46.640 We have two full weeks. 00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:47.119 Yeah. 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:50.799 And every moment of it is with intention. 00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:53.759 And so we're starting at a 10,000-foot view. 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:57.759 And what we're hoping to do is to get your buy-in in the beginning. 00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:10.559 So we're trying to transmit our culture in a way that's really clear to make sure at the very beginning that you, Travis, sitting here, know what our goal is and you want to be a part of it. 00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:14.160 Because, you know, as you know, it's an incredibly difficult job. 00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:17.680 And it's really not for everybody at every stage of life. 00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:26.160 And so a lot of times I think the most generous and loving thing that you can do is to get the right people in your seats. 00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:40.400 And so, you know, it obviously starts with interviewing, but then I would rather have somebody go to a different camp if they're not completely bought into what we're doing, because it's like a jump in the deep end with us all the way in. 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:43.200 There's no, you don't get to sit in the shallow end. 00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:47.039 We're asking a lot of you, you know, we ask our kids to be really courageous. 00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:50.960 So if you're not willing to do that, it's just not gonna work. 00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:52.640 And there's nothing wrong with you. 00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:55.759 You know, it's just for whatever reason, not a great fit. 00:32:55.839 --> 00:33:08.960 You know, if you're not super stable and you're not in a place where you can say, I am so ready to pour into everybody around me, or you don't buy into I'm gonna choose my attitude. 00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:13.599 Like every day I'm gonna wake up and if it's raining, we're going slip and sliding. 00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:15.680 It's gonna be the most fun day of the whole summer. 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:21.519 Like, if you're not there, not everybody's there developmentally or maturity-wise. 00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:29.279 So I would say we started a 10,000-foot view, and then we build the culture that we want them to create. 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:37.039 So there's a little teaching, you know, like it's we're gonna do bits of it, and then we're gonna have a lot of fun. 00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:42.240 And I'm gonna make you get outside your comfort zone, and we're gonna do all the things. 00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:43.839 You know what happens at king up? 00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:53.759 It's like, okay, we're gonna have commonalities and then shared experiences, yeah, and we're gonna do that over and over until you are so woven together with these people. 00:33:53.920 --> 00:34:08.639 We had four camp weddings last year of people that met at King Up, you know, and that happens all over, but it's like if

you'll buy in, you know, and you're gonna be vulnerable and you'll go on this ride with us, it will transform you. 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:13.360 And so I think we're really intentional about what we expect of them. 00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:20.400 We have really high expectations and a high level of support, and so we're gonna make our expectations incredibly clear. 00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:32.559 You know, we're doing the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like at the bottom is the sleep all the, you know, your physical wellness, then you've got your emotional wellness, you know, and we just draw a giant red line. 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:38.000 We cannot send anybody home any worse than how they got to us. 00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:42.320 Yes, like that's that is like the lowest bar that we have. 00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:44.079 Yeah, that's the expectation. 00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.719 And then you're talking about why are kids coming here? 00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:53.760 You know, they want to learn some social skills and they want to get connected to somebody, even if that's one counselor. 00:34:54.159 --> 00:35:01.199 You know, if you're a kid who hasn't developed those skills yet, but one counselor sees you and loves you, like that's our next level, you know. 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:05.039 And obviously we're working our way up until you get to the I belong. 00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:21.199 You know, if if every single human being, every kitchen worker and kid and office person left and said, I belong at Campbell Place, like that is where I'm my best self, my best version of myself, then we just that was it. 00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:23.360 That's like the ultimate goal for us. 00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:26.000 So it's a super long process. 00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:30.239 We're playing, we're having fun, we're being vulnerable, we're learning. 00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:45.199 And we, you know, we try like, I mean, I'm sure you do all the things that we do, but we try and do it in 15 different ways, you know, like let our returning counselors teach you about the nitty-gritty stuff, and then we're gonna do a game show, you know, to reinforce that in a fun way. 00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:58.880 So it's been, I don't think, you know, every time you talk to a camp person, you're like, oh, I thought I was the only person that did that, and you're like, everybody does some version of that, but we've developed it over 25 years. 00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:07.199 It's incredibly important to us to have the right people to set the right expectations and then to develop all the skills for them. 00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:12.159 And to be honest with you, Travis, it is way harder than it was 25 years ago. 00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:28.719 I mean, we are now starting at we're doing games of making eye contact, shaking hands, yep, introducing yourself, using names, you know, things that we were certainly not doing back then, but you meet them where they are. 00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:32.239 And so I think that's kind of why we've extended our orientation. 00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:37.920 And it's like they age doesn't mean skill. 00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:49.360 I think it used to in a different way, you know, where you're like, oh, when you're 20, you've probably been this kind of independent and you've made these decisions, and it just that's not the case anymore. 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:54.079 And so I think we're doing a lot, it feels a little bit like parenting, right? 00:36:54.320 --> 00:37:02.079 You know, where you're like, okay, I see you, you know, and we're gonna, you know, we're gonna inch toward the best version of you. 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:30.960 And what we say to them at the very beginning is every single person that walks through our gate is worthy of love and belonging, and that's what we're gonna do here, and you have potential to be so much more than you are right now, and that's why people go to camp because somebody loves you and knows that you can be way more than you are, and that is like you're like, wait, you believe in me that much? 00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:37.599 Like, you see me, and then you believe, like, I and everybody's gonna be a little different, you know. 00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:50.559 Some people are gonna shine in different places, but I think that sense of like you're the right person, you're meant to be here, and we I promise we are going to give you the skills to be successful. 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:56.800 And you know, at the end of two weeks, they love each other so much it's almost hard to transition to the to the campers. 00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:03.440 I would say that's the hardest thing that we do is like, okay, like, yes, you're like, okay, now we really have a job. 00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:06.800 Like, I love that you love each other and you're all gonna travel after. 00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:17.760 And we have an amazing guy who's been with us, his name is Steve Nugent, and he opens up his house and he has 20, 25, 30, like the counselors all come through. 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:23.119 Like, he loves on people so beautifully, and the culture just is so deeply connected. 00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:26.559 But you're like, for real, like we have to do our job. 00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:32.800 Like, we're gonna like pivot just a little bit, but it is it's it's amazing. 00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:41.440 I mean, it is really an incredible gift to be able to be a part of something where you're looking at human flourishing like that. 00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:49.039 I just I don't know any other place where you get to have as much fun as we do and have as much meaning and purpose. 00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:50.400 Yeah, yeah. 00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:52.880 So that was a long-winded answer. 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:53.280 Sorry. 00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:55.199 No, no, no, you're you're totally right. 00:38:55.280 --> 00:39:01.440 It's a great thing, and and it definitely aligns up something that I try we try to get across every summer with

our stuff. 00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:10.960 Something I've talked a lot about since is how small the gesture has to be for somebody to feel noticed and appreciated. 00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:23.199 Yes, and but it does take a bit of thoughtfulness around it, but it doesn't have to be like you're we're not training you to save these kids' lives, we're training you to know their name and walk with them to the dining hall, right? 00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:27.199 And that can be all it takes for that kid to feel like they've got a home. 00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:35.440 I think when that happens to you in orientation, you know, when Travis is sitting there and someone comes up and says, Hey Travis, how are you? 00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:36.320 How was your day? 00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:40.079 You know, I heard this, or you get it. 00:39:40.639 --> 00:40:02.800 You know, like and you're like, wait, I can do that, you know, and I think that realization that it's like you know, we do the kid president video where it's like you don't need to be a superhero, like that's nobody's asking that of you, but it's pretty remarkable when you're walking and you're not thinking about yourself and you're looking around, going, Oh, Travis was walking by himself. 00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:06.079 Like, I'm gonna pop over and I'm just gonna ask how his day was. 00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:08.960 Like you feel so good about yourself. 00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:18.000 That's what I find is that transition of the like from I'm so worried about me to I'm so concerned about you. 00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:26.880 And you can almost see it on their faces, like the joy that you have when you it's like a burden that you can be done with you. 00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:31.599 You know, I'm sick of navel gazing and thinking about myself and wearing what people think of me. 00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:37.039 And like at camp, you're ridiculous, like you wear costumes, you stand on the table. 00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:41.039 Like you can't if you're gonna think about what people think of you, like you're doomed. 00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:47.119 You kind of almost, it's like you're forced to be like, okay, like everybody's ridiculous. 00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:48.880 So I guess I'll be done with that. 00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:53.199 And I think that's very freeing, especially for these kids. 00:40:53.280 --> 00:41:02.159 I mean, every year I feel like it's more and more of a gift to the young people to have a chance to do that at camp and feel that. 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:02.960 I agree. 00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:03.840 I agree. 00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:05.519 Let's move on to beliefs. 00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:12.000 So last section of our questions, and it is question number three. 00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:13.440 Oh, I like this one. 00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:16.320 Do you think about the legacy you leave, Kate? 00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:19.679 No, no, never. 00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:21.199 I think of I don't know. 00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:23.119 I just

I'm I don't think I'm wired like that. 00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:31.440 I I think about every day and every week and every summer, and I I don't know why. 00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:32.719 I've always been like that. 00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:51.039 I'm just uh feet where I'm planted and think about where I am, and I'm really grateful for this opportunity, and I'm grateful for the people who have come into our lives and have impacted our children. 00:41:51.280 --> 00:42:01.119 And I guess I think much more about that and just how incredibly lucky we are to constantly have. 00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:10.559 I mean, we have people that have worked with us for 25 years and then new people that come in that like become family all the time. 00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:25.199 And so I just I'm so grateful for the legacy that those people, the campers, the staff, have left on us and our family that I think a lot more about that than I do the other way. 00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:26.480 Yeah. 00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:29.840 Question number 17. 00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:44.880 When what is something when's a time when camp or camp leader should say no to a demand of a parent or a staff member or a camper just for the sake of the culture and how camp runs? 00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:49.039 My first thought is if it impacts somebody else's experience. 00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:51.360 That's you know, we think about that a lot. 00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:54.960 You know, you want it to be a right place for every kid. 00:42:55.360 --> 00:43:14.159 But if that child is taking away from somebody else's experience and opportunity and ability to grow or to flourish or to feel good, that's probably that's kind of my first instinct is that, you know, if you're taking away from somebody else, and even I mean, I would say the same for staff. 00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:20.000 Like, I don't think that anybody is entitled to make other people's experience less good. 00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:21.519 Yeah. 00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:22.079 Yeah. 00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:24.719 So we're really protective of that. 00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:34.320 And it's incredibly important to us that everybody at camp, everybody, like the UPS person who walks in, you know, gets gets respected. 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:40.159 And that's, you know, if you're gonna, I I don't, I do the Hallow app and they were just talking about it. 00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:45.760 You know, if you're nice to the waiter, but you're not nice to people in your home, you're not that nice. 00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:48.960 You know, and so it's like you don't we don't get to pick and choose. 00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.719 Like the person who's in front of you, we have shirts that all say create amazing. 00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:57.039 Like if you don't know what you're supposed to do at camp, create amazing for the person in front of you. 00:43:57.119 --> 00:44:45.119 Like, whatever that looks like, your co counselor, whoever it is so I I think it's it's simple and it's hard you know it's like most of the things that we do right yeah simple and hard I agree yeah okay last question question 16 okay here it is what do you think the role the proper role proper's a loaded word I accept but the proper role of parents is in the camp experience oh I think they're our partner absolutely positively I think that they have a responsibility to share information with us to set their child up for success and to be really honest about what's happening with the child and what that child what type of support that child needs so that we can make sure it's the right place and we can provide that. 00:44:45.440 --> 00:45:05.280 And I think that we have a responsibility to partner with them when things aren't going great or if you know in any way just I I find it to be that we do a lot of parenting at camp and you know people choose us I think because of our values and what we're gonna provide. 00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:28.159 So I think it's incredibly important that you feel aligned on those things and that you feel like I mean Cole is very good about picking up the phone and communicating and saying you know this is what we're seeing with Travis you know do you have any advice or has this happened in the past or have you guys done something that worked so it is absolutely a partnership. 00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:29.039 Yeah. 00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:34.320 And I think they need to buy into whatever's you know the culture at whatever camp that you're at. 00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:43.599 You know if we've got a dress code or you know we ask you not to send cameras and you try and sneak them into the bunk you know you're degrading the culture. 00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:54.639 And I I don't think that there are some rules that you follow and some you don't you know and if you don't like the rules of the camp then I would totally find another camp because there are loads of them out there. 00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:55.280 Yeah. 00:45:55.519 --> 00:45:57.840 So tons of different philosophies and things. 00:45:58.239 --> 00:45:58.480 Right. 00:45:58.559 --> 00:45:59.519 And I think that's great. 00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:12.559 I don't think that there's anyone right I mean obviously there's not but it's I think that sometimes parents pick a place because everyone in their neighborhood goes or I have a friend going and or I'm worried. 00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:45.039 It's like they might be nervous for the first two hours but if this is going to be a six or seven or eight year partnership like let's make sure that we're lined up on all the things that matter because in 15 minutes if your kid is eight they've already got 10 friends like you know we get scared I think of like what would it feel like if you went to a brand new place and you didn't know people but it's it's really it's really important I think to find a place that aligns with the end game. 00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:54.480 You know we're looking at creating good humans you know and so yep that's I think

that that's more important than we talk about in our industry sometimes. 00:46:54.559 --> 00:47:13.519 I think everybody's you know you want to fill your camp and you want to get kids but I would rather have 300 of families that share our values and that we're aiming at the same thing for their child than 450 you know of families that were it's discordant. 00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:14.320 Sure. 00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:20.320 Yeah discordant sometimes feels like you're just a place where they store their kids for a certain period of time. 00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:23.280 That's not what the way we think about this. 00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:28.719 Right and I don't want to fight with you like what that's not that's just a waste of energy and time. 00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:33.920 And so if there are things you know that don't align like I don't think that's a problem at all. 00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:46.480 But you know I mean we're really conservative about our older kids and how much supervision they have you know like we think we have other people's kids and I want to make sure that somebody's got an eye on them. 00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:48.000 Not everybody feels like that. 00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:58.400 And you know if 15 year olds in New York have a ton of freedom and so if you're like oh I want my kid to roam free and never you know be accountable then you know we're probably not the right place. 00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:01.679 But that's I I just think it's part of it. 00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:18.800 And I I love the partnership and I love our families and you know you know what the harmony is like when you're aiming at the right thing for a kid and you're watching that kid grow and you see and you're like oh this is unbelievable it it really it it hits just right. 00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:20.159 Right. 00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:26.480 That's a perfect place to end this Kate thank you so much for for being in here and answering the questions. 00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:29.519 Thank you it was a pleasure I really appreciate it. 00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:39.519 And again your book title is Three Happies and an appreciation and an appreciation one for families and one for couples. 00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:45.920 Exactly yeah that's great Kate where can people go to find stuff out about your camp? 00:48:46.239 --> 00:49:06.800 waquaic.com so w equ so that's every everything's there cole's blog the books anything else that's great well I'm I'm I'm good for you've been here and thank you so much for for doing this this brings us to an end of this episode of intentionally intentional leaders from go camp pro. 00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:31.519 If you would like to explore how you can lead with more clarity more capacity then you can take the Camp Resilience checkup for free at camp.mba slash Travis and if you like what you're hearing and you're looking for more great podcasts we hope that you would check out some more of the Go Camp Pro podcast today because we're recording in the spring I want to recommend you check out first class counselors. 00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:42.800 That is the show that we create for camp directors to pass on to their staff members to help them get ready for the summer so you can search your podcast app for first class counselors. 00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:55.920 Kate before we go for you for you who is an intentionally intentional camp leader that you admire that you think we should invite to be on the show next oh that's a great question. 00:49:56.079 --> 00:49:59.119 I would say can it be someone who works with us? 00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:31.599 Yeah yeah please oh Dana Stassen she's worked with us for a long time and she is we call her Princess Sparkle Pants at camp because you know everybody has a nickname so she's PSP but she is one of the most creative and uh sparkly and really fun joyful people to be around and she's a teacher during the year she worked with us full time a long time and she went back to the classroom and now she's an assistant principal and everywhere she goes she makes things better more interesting and more sparkly. 00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:33.360 So she would be my person. 00:50:33.679 --> 00:50:34.639 That is brilliant. 00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:36.000 Thank you for that Kate. 00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:41.760 Yes and thanks to folks who are listening hope that you stay resilient and stay intentional. 00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:50.159 The Camp Hacker Podcast is brought to you by Beth and Travis Allison summer camp leadership training and marketing consultants. 00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:55.039 Thanks for listening Camp Hacker bringing your world into focus