บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Wellness Without Barriers

lion safari park. Is that still 35 00:02:26.339 --> 00:02:26.700 going? 36 00:02:27.500 --> 00:02:30.300 That is still going. It's absolutely beautiful here as well. 37 00:02:31.260 --> 00:02:35.060 It is, yeah. I remember it was a childhood 38 00:02:35.060 --> 00:02:40.030 holiday. Used to go there, I think several times in my. My younger days for day trips and things, 39 00:02:40.910 --> 00:02:45.670 I guess. It's a big draw. It's no theme wise, I just don't want 40 00:02:45.670 --> 00:02:47.150 to. Adventure is. It's. It's more. 41 00:02:47.230 --> 00:02:48.750 It's an amazing place to go to. 42 00:02:49.630 --> 00:02:54.287 Yeah. You, you founded this, your organisation, Wellness Without 43 00:02:54.287 --> 00:02:58.527 Barriers, recently or not so long ago. Tell us the story about 44 00:02:58.527 --> 00:03:00.190 how. How it came to pass. 45 00:03:00.270 --> 00:03:04.830 Well, actually, Jo, it's come from lived experience. So five years ago 46 00:03:05.470 --> 00:03:10.110 I had a stroke, like episode and I was rushed into hospital with a 47 00:03:10.110 --> 00:03:14.030 fast ambulance and I lost eight hours that day. So I was taken 48 00:03:14.030 --> 00:03:18.870 in. I had loads of tests done, MRIs, CT scans, bloods, ECGs, 49 00:03:18.870 --> 00:03:23.550 and everything came back normal. All I remember of that day is waking up in 50 00:03:23.550 --> 00:03:28.190 hospital and there was a physiotherapist in front of me, along with my partner, 51 00:03:28.350 --> 00:03:32.870 who I didn't know was my partner at the time. I'd lost all my memory and I was given a 52 00:03:32.870 --> 00:03:37.220 leaflet on something that was called fnd, which is functional 53 00:03:37.370 --> 00:03:42.330 neurological disorder. And I was sent home. I was not able to walk, I was not able to 54 00:03:42.330 --> 00:03:47.050 talk. Me and my partner were just sent on our way to be told that we might have 55 00:03:47.050 --> 00:03:50.290 fnd, which is sad state of affairs for the healthcare 56 00:03:50.290 --> 00:03:54.090 system. But I've learned since then that FND is not widely 57 00:03:54.090 --> 00:03:58.890 known. So my own experience within the healthcare system allowed me to 58 00:03:58.890 --> 00:04:03.610 realise that wellness is not exactly accessible for all disabled 59 00:04:03.610 --> 00:04:07.650 people or chronically ill people. And that's where wellness without barriers has come 60 00:04:07.650 --> 00:04:07.890 from. 61 00:04:07.890 --> 00:04:11.960 So let me just ask you some questions about that because what's going through my head 62 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:16.760 is. So you're in hospital, you're struggling to remember who 63 00:04:16.760 --> 00:04:21.400 you are or any, any, any significant facts around your near relationships, anything like 64 00:04:21.400 --> 00:04:26.240 that. You're barely able to walk, talk and 65 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:30.760 function as a, as you were before, and they're, they're sending you 66 00:04:30.760 --> 00:04:35.090 home. Did they send you home a care package or any support or is this 67 00:04:35.090 --> 00:04:38.890 literally. Nope, just a bed. Just a 68 00:04:38.890 --> 00:04:39.450 leaflet. 69 00:04:40.010 --> 00:04:44.890 Yep, just a leaflet, provided my partner with a wheelchair and that was 70 00:04:44.890 --> 00:04:45.850 it, I went home. 71 00:04:45.850 --> 00:04:49.930 Wow. No. A GP referral, a follow up appointment, 72 00:04:50.170 --> 00:04:50.730 anything? 73 00:04:50.730 --> 00:04:55.650 No, no. I had to chase that myself. Well, my partner did, he did the majority 74 00:04:55.650 --> 00:04:59.610 of it. For the first two years we chased at the GP and got an appointment with a 75 00:04:59.610 --> 00:05:00.330 neurologist. 76 00:05:00.330 --> 00:05:01.530 That must have been quite scary. 77 00:05:02.510 --> 00:05:03.790 It was, it was very scary. 78 00:05:04.750 --> 00:05:09.630 My experience of the hospital environment and that, I think what you're talking about here is this 79 00:05:10.110 --> 00:05:14.830 gap between fixing you physically and 80 00:05:14.830 --> 00:05:19.230 fixing you holistically was by my mother in law before she passed 81 00:05:19.230 --> 00:05:24.070 away. She was clearly not well. She had a lack of well 82 00:05:24.070 --> 00:05:26.910 being, but physically she was 83 00:05:26.910 --> 00:05:31.630 okay. So they're almost saying, well, the hospital, the bed is there to treat you 84 00:05:31.630 --> 00:05:36.350 physically, not holistically. And it's a real frustration that you could be in a 85 00:05:36.350 --> 00:05:41.310 situation where clearly you need support, but there's nothing to hand you over 86 00:05:41.310 --> 00:05:41.590 to. 87 00:05:41.750 --> 00:05:46.190 There is a big gap there. And that became very apparent very quickly to my partner and my 88 00:05:46.190 --> 00:05:49.270 family. So we had to reach out ourselves and do everything 89 00:05:49.270 --> 00:05:53.750 ourselves. My partner spent hours and hours researching functional neurological 90 00:05:53.750 --> 00:05:58.600 disorder whilst I was led next to him having seizures and not being able 91 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:01.320 to speak and not being able to move. It was very 92 00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:01.720 scary. 93 00:06:01.880 --> 00:06:04.600 So how was your partner feeling at this 94 00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:07.160 stage? They must have been quite worried about you. 95 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:12.680 He was, he was extremely worried, extremely frustrated and I think he was 96 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:17.160 a little bit overwhelmed with having to deal with everything and having to go from, 97 00:06:17.400 --> 00:06:20.800 you know, being at work himself to almost being a full time 98 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:25.160 carer. He had to take a lot of leave to look after me and he also tried to 99 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:30.540 hide it as best he could from my daughters so that they didn't actually see any of the seizures or 100 00:06:30.540 -->

00:06:35.260 anything like that, as well as running a household. And he had his own medical issues as 101 00:06:35.260 --> 00:06:39.500 well that he was also dealing with. So I think he was a little bit overwhelmed with 102 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:42.339 everything. But he powered on as he always 103 00:06:42.339 --> 00:06:47.140 does. And I wouldn't know as much about FND now if he hadn't 104 00:06:47.300 --> 00:06:49.940 been able to do that, all that research and everything 105 00:06:49.940 --> 00:06:50.460 himself. 106 00:06:50.460 --> 00:06:52.260 Does it remind me what FND stands for again? 107 00:06:52.260 --> 00:06:55.300 You said it earlier, it's Functional Neurological 108 00:06:55.300 --> 00:06:56.020 disorder. 109 00:06:56.100 --> 00:07:00.530 And it's a purely neurological. There's no physicality, you're 110 00:07:00.530 --> 00:07:04.010 not. Nothing's broken as such. It's just 111 00:07:04.010 --> 00:07:06.770 a. That the fuse is blown. Is it? Or something like that. 112 00:07:06.770 --> 00:07:09.799 Yeah. So how they describe it is a hardware 113 00:07:09.799 --> 00:07:12.740 issue. So it's almost like your computer 114 00:07:12.740 --> 00:07:17.414 rebooting. So if you have an issue, a virus on your computer and it 115 00:07:17.414 --> 00:07:21.483 completely shuts down and it reboots, not everything is 116 00:07:21.483 --> 00:07:25.897 reconnected properly. So your brain fails to send signals to 117 00:07:25.897 --> 00:07:29.359 certain parts of your body or it, it becomes very 118 00:07:29.359 --> 00:07:31.956 sensit. That would normally not be a 119 00:07:31.956 --> 00:07:34.206 bother. Things actually are so 120 00:07:34.206 --> 00:07:38.878 oversensitized. So like your flight or fight modes, things like 121 00:07:38.878 --> 00:07:43.467 that, they are over sensitised and you can become, your body can 122 00:07:43.467 --> 00:07:48.314 become overwhelmed very quickly and then it has an outlay and it can 123 00:07:48.314 --> 00:07:52.382 be in the form of ticks, twitches, seizures, paralysis, 124 00:07:52.382 --> 00:07:57.230 blackouts. It can even be headaches, sleep disorders, things like 125 00:07:57.230 --> 00:08:02.078 that. And that's why FND is such an big umbrella of a diagnosis, that 126 00:08:02.078 --> 00:08:06.667 there's so much that comes under that. I believe they've now put 127 00:08:06.667 --> 00:08:10.649 fibromyalgia under FND. So yeah, it's, it's, it's very 128 00:08:10.649 --> 00:08:15.411 widely. It's a big diagnosis. There's a lot of varieties that come 129 00:08:15.411 --> 00:08:16.100 under it. 130 00:08:16.100 --> 00:08:18.340 So Tourette's maybe with tics? 131 00:08:18.340 --> 00:08:21.500 Yes, yep, that's, that's a 132 00:08:21.500 --> 00:08:26.340 consideration. Even Parkinson's. So people that have tremors or handshakes, 133 00:08:26.420 --> 00:08:31.310 feet shakes. I've known people be wheelchair bound, paralysed 134 00:08:31.550 --> 00:08:36.110 because of it, and it can start at any age. We've recently had 135 00:08:36.350 --> 00:08:41.270 a young lady who we've learned about in an FND group that I 136 00:08:41.270 --> 00:08:44.590 go to. She's 10 years old and she's just been 137 00:08:44.590 --> 00:08:45.310 diagnosed. 138 00:08:45.390 --> 00:08:49.950 Yeah, well, so I'm gonna make an assumption here, because we're having this conversation that 139 00:08:50.270 --> 00:08:54.670 you have improved slightly since that initial hospitalisation 140 00:08:54.990 --> 00:08:59.820 and you've. Are you still improving or have you kind of plateaued or how are you on 141 00:08:59.820 --> 00:09:00.780 your journey? 142 00:09:01.340 --> 00:09:06.300 I'm still learning every day about things that happen and as it 143 00:09:06.300 --> 00:09:09.740 progresses, for me, it's new symptoms seem to come 144 00:09:09.740 --> 00:09:14.380 out. So I've gone from having seizures, extreme 145 00:09:14.380 --> 00:09:19.300 fatigue, and when I get extremely tired, my speech slurs and then I'm not able 146 00:09:19.300 --> 00:09:23.700 to walk properly, my feet turn in, both pointing towards each other, so it's very hard to 147 00:09:23.700 --> 00:09:28.640 walk. 2. Having blackouts. I had a blackout behind the wheel of my car, crashed my 148 00:09:28.640 --> 00:09:33.560 car, lost my driving licence. But I've learned over the last five years since this 149 00:09:33.560 --> 00:09:38.000 happened, how to try and. How can I put 150 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:42.280 it? Not. Not stop, but maintain a healthy 151 00:09:42.760 --> 00:09:47.560 lifestyle. As I'm going, I know my limits. I listen to my body and when my body 152 00:09:47.560 --> 00:09:52.120 starts telling me that I'm getting a little bit fatigued or it's too much, it's too 153 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:56.760 overwhelming, it sends little signals and. But I'm still progressing every 154 00:09:56.760 --> 00:10:01.480 day. I have good days and I have bad days. I'm quite lucky that today's a good day, but 155 00:10:02.280 --> 00:10:06.960 because of being interviewed for only the second time in my life, I'll probably be 156 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:10.200 overwhelmed after this and I'll probably have to sleep for a few 157 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:14.600 hours. So, yeah, it can differ every day, but my journey is still ongoing 158 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:19.840 and because of that, I feel that I'm a good person to be running wellness without 159 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:22.720 barriers and helping others because of my lived 160 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:24.840 experience. That's currently still going. 161 00:10:25.100 --> 00:10:29.220 So is your. I'm going to say the word condition. Condition's the right word, I 162 00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:33.340 hope. Is your condition recognised as a disability under the Equality 163 00:10:33.340 --> 00:10:37.820 Act? Do you have social. Social support in terms of disability 164 00:10:37.820 --> 00:10:41.780 benefits, those sort of things, or are you being literally told to get on with 165

00:10:41.780 --> 00:10:42.060 life? 166 00:10:43.020 --> 00:10:46.860 It is known. It is a formal disability that's under the Disabilities 167 00:10:47.020 --> 00:10:51.180 Act. It is now. It wasn't a few years ago and I do get support 168 00:10:51.340 --> 00:10:56.020 from. From the government as such. Some people are having issues with 169 00:10:56.020 --> 00:11:00.740 regards to PIP and Disability Living Allowance, but I'm quite lucky in 170 00:11:00.900 --> 00:11:05.740 my own circumstances that I get that support. And I've had such great support 171 00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:10.700 from my local job centre in Trowbridge. There's a lady who I work with there who has 172 00:11:10.700 --> 00:11:15.140 been an absolute superstar. She's helped me build my business and she's even 173 00:11:15.140 --> 00:11:19.580 included me on their internal Internet as a 174 00:11:19.580 --> 00:11:24.190 disabled entrepreneur who's working within my life and 175 00:11:24.510 --> 00:11:27.470 she's been there every step of the way. So there is support out 176 00:11:27.470 --> 00:11:31.070 there. You've just got to really know where to look and I can help with 177 00:11:31.070 --> 00:11:34.430 that. You know, as someone that's been through it, that's where I 178 00:11:34.430 --> 00:11:38.630 stand. I can help people with advice, where to go and things like 179 00:11:38.630 --> 00:11:38.910 that. 180 00:11:38.910 --> 00:11:43.830 Are there research projects underway or studies to look into this 181 00:11:43.830 --> 00:11:47.710 in more detail, or are you kind of in this sort of vacuum where nothing's really 182 00:11:47.710 --> 00:11:48.190 happening? 183 00:11:49.560 --> 00:11:52.340 I believe they're doing some research on MRI 184 00:11:52.340 --> 00:11:57.150 scans. It turns out that there are actual differences between somebody that 185 00:11:57.150 --> 00:12:00.005 has. Is normal, let's say normal as normal can 186 00:12:00.005 --> 00:12:04.964 be. To somebody who has been diagnosed with FND, there are slight neurological 187 00:12:04.964 --> 00:12:09.774 changes within the brain that they have noticed, but it's not something that 188 00:12:09.774 --> 00:12:14.658 they really look out for. So if you go in presenting with stroke symptoms like I 189 00:12:14.658 --> 00:12:19.393 did, they would look for the normal signs of a blood clot within the brain or a 190 00:12:19.393 --> 00:12:24.053 bleed or something like that. So they don't really look for these specific 191 00:12:24.053 --> 00:12:28.561 changes. But I do know there's research going on around making training 192 00:12:28.561 --> 00:12:33.445 available for neurologists or radiologists to have a look for those specific 193 00:12:33.445 --> 00:12:36.526 changes. They're very, very small, but there are 194 00:12:36.526 --> 00:12:41.485 changes. I don't know how far they are with that, but I read an article on that not 195 00:12:41.485 --> 00:12:46.293 long ago and there's plenty of people out there who are doing apps that you can 196 00:12:46.293 --> 00:12:50.952 log all your symptoms with and it's used for research and things like that, 197 00:12:50.952 --> 00:12:54.032 which are really, really helpful. I use one every 198 00:12:54.032 --> 00:12:57.564 day. It's called NeuroLog by a gentleman called Stephen 199 00:12:57.564 --> 00:13:02.446 Painter. He has FND himself and he created Neurolog using his own conditions, 200 00:13:02.446 --> 00:13:07.327 his own symptoms. So there are things that are out there, but because FND is not 201 00:13:07.327 --> 00:13:10.634 widely known, there's not many people that are aware 202 00:13:10.634 --> 00:13:10.859 of. 203 00:13:10.860 --> 00:13:15.630 So whilst they don't know much about it, is there any 204 00:13:16.990 --> 00:13:20.470 kind of conjecture on the cause? Was it a mini 205 00:13:20.470 --> 00:13:23.230 stroke? Was it a virus? Was it just one of those 206 00:13:23.230 --> 00:13:27.310 things? I mean, do they have any kind of what they think is the likely 207 00:13:27.550 --> 00:13:28.190 trigger? 208 00:13:29.710 --> 00:13:32.813 So when I was first diagnosed, they put it down to 209 00:13:32.813 --> 00:13:37.623 stress. So I was under a lot of pressure in my job, in my Home life with things 210 00:13:37.623 --> 00:13:41.424 going on and it just got to the stage where my brain just gave 211 00:13:41.424 --> 00:13:46.391 in. But now they've realised that it can be a source of trauma they're putting 212 00:13:46.391 --> 00:13:51.124 it down to. It can either be something that happened to you years and years 213 00:13:51.124 --> 00:13:54.149 ago, or it can be something that happened quite 214 00:13:54.149 --> 00:13:58.728 recently. It's not necessarily just a stress related issue or a mental 215 00:13:58.728 --> 00:14:03.617 health issue. It can be from a fall. For example, if you fell over and hit your 216 00:14:03.617 --> 00:14:06.566 head, that can be a massive starting point for 217 00:14:06.566 --> 00:14:11.452 FND. They basically put it down to your brain's just had enough and it's just 218 00:14:11.452 --> 00:14:16.417 gone, no, no more. It completely down. And as it's rebooting, you kind of have 219 00:14:16.417 --> 00:14:18.357 to teach it using. It's called 220 00:14:18.357 --> 00:14:23.245 neuroplasticity. So you're kind of working with your nervous system to try 221 00:14:23.245 --> 00:14:27.978 and make the brain remember how to deal with your flight or fight modes and 222 00:14:27.978 --> 00:14:32.400 things like that. Just to train it again to try and get some normality 223 00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:37.365 back. And it doesn't work for everybody. Talking therapies as well, they use 224 00:14:37.365 --> 00:14:42.253 that a bit of cbt. Again, it depends on people's symptoms because everybody 225 00:14:42.253 --> 00:14:46.986 presents differently. I mean, whereas I presented with what looked like 226 00:14:46.986 --> 00:14:51.798 stroke symptoms, somebody can probably fall out of their chair,

hit their 227 00:14:51.798 --> 00:14:54.202 head and they present with different 228 00:14:54.202 --> 00:14:59.168 symptoms. Unfortunately, within the healthcare setting, because it's not 229 00:14:59.168 --> 00:15:03.512 widely known, when doctors do find out that you have something like 230 00:15:03.512 --> 00:15:07.935 functional neurological disorder, unfortunately they try and put 231 00:15:07.935 --> 00:15:12.513 everything underneath that umbrella, blame it on the FND every single 232 00:15:12.513 --> 00:15:15.927 time. But that's just because of lack of education, I 233 00:15:15.927 --> 00:15:16.548 believe. 234 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:21.076 So this is now a lifelong, I'm trying to think of the right word to use a 235 00:15:21.076 --> 00:15:25.815 condition, a lifelong situation which you've had to come to terms over the 236 00:15:25.815 --> 00:15:30.785 last five years going through, I would have thought, your own mental health as 237 00:15:30.785 --> 00:15:35.525 well as the fnd. Your mental health journey has been quite a struggle to get 238 00:15:35.525 --> 00:15:37.130 grips with as well as has. 239 00:15:37.370 --> 00:15:42.308 It has been very hard. It's almost like accepting that you have a disability when you 240 00:15:42.308 --> 00:15:44.989 were perfectly healthy beforehand. It can be 241 00:15:44.989 --> 00:15:49.928 difficult. I go through good days and bad days trying to remember the person who I was 242 00:15:49.928 --> 00:15:54.797 compared to the person I am now is very, very hard. And it's taken a long time for me to 243 00:15:54.797 --> 00:15:57.830 even accept the fact that I am a registered disabled 244 00:15:57.830 --> 00:16:01.146 person. And I know some people would probably criticise 245 00:16:01.146 --> 00:16:05.308 that. But I myself personally have always seen myself as a fit, healthy 246 00:16:05.308 --> 00:16:09.543 person. And because I was practically bedridden for two years, I gained 247 00:16:09.543 --> 00:16:13.634 weight. And that was something else that really messed with my mental 248 00:16:13.634 --> 00:16:17.656 health. When I sought help for that. I was told to just join a slimming 249 00:16:17.656 --> 00:16:22.029 club. Even though I couldn't do half of the things that they do at a slimming 250 00:16:22.029 --> 00:16:25.487 club. Getting there and being surrounded by people was bad 251 00:16:25.487 --> 00:16:30.425 enough. With the anxiety side of things, I've got better with the help of my partner, 252 00:16:30.425 --> 00:16:35.292 who's very understanding. My two daughters, they're very understanding and they 253 00:16:35.292 --> 00:16:39.173 listen all the time. Even if they have no advice. I know I can talk to 254 00:16:39.173 --> 00:16:43.690 them. And it just, it sounds silly, but kind of goes through one ear and out the 255 00:16:43.690 --> 00:16:48.134 other. They don't have an opinion, they don't try and fix it or anything like 256 00:16:48.134 --> 00:16:51.379 that. They just listen. And

that's what's needed for me 257 00:16:51.379 --> 00:16:56.178 sometimes. It's been a tough road, but I've come out on the other end and I want to be 258 00:16:56.178 --> 00:16:57.890 that person for other people. 259 00:16:59.410 --> 00:17:04.370 So it really wasn't literally a case of on Tuesday morning 260 00:17:04.610 --> 00:17:09.000 you were getting on with life and by Tuesday evening everything had 261 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:09.440 changed. 262 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:14.760 Yep, absolutely. And my whole life was turned upside down and my whole family's life was 263 00:17:14.760 --> 00:17:19.040 turned upside down. It was a massive shock and it was extremely 264 00:17:19.040 --> 00:17:23.880 scary. And it's not something that I would want anybody to go through or do on 265 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:26.160 their own. Definitely not. 266 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:29.600 You must have feelings of. It's not fair. Why 267 00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:29.920 me? 268 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.480 Yes. Yeah, I do all the time. 269 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:36.920 But I guess by starting the business, becoming, you know, putting yourself into 270 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:41.560 supporting others, it's. It's a very cathartic way of, of 271 00:17:42.760 --> 00:17:46.920 dealing with things because you're, you're dealing with yourself, but you're not focusing on yourself, you're focusing on 272 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:51.800 others. It allows you to heal yourself differently, doesn't it, without being sort 273 00:17:51.800 --> 00:17:53.640 of self focused? 274 00:17:54.280 --> 00:17:59.000 Yes, it does. And I actually find that some of the advice I give some of my clients as well 275 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:03.050 is I sit there and think maybe I need to take that advice 276 00:18:03.050 --> 00:18:07.730 myself. I can help people all the time, but to take my own 277 00:18:07.730 --> 00:18:12.570 advice can be difficult. But there are times where it's a big eye opener 278 00:18:12.570 --> 00:18:17.370 and it gives me a lot of satisfaction knowing that there's support out there for 279 00:18:17.370 --> 00:18:21.850 somebody that really needs it. And I'm glad it's 280 00:18:21.850 --> 00:18:25.610 me. And I couldn't wish for a better business, to be 281 00:18:25.610 --> 00:18:25.970 honest. 282 00:18:27.350 --> 00:18:32.310 Yeah. Are there people out there like you helping 283 00:18:32.310 --> 00:18:36.590 people like you that help you, if that makes sense. So you, you're part of a chain of 284 00:18:36.590 --> 00:18:39.190 people. So you're not on your own through this network as well? 285 00:18:39.910 --> 00:18:42.563 Yes, I am. There's quite a few people that I'm 286 00:18:42.563 --> 00:18:47.366 with. I'm actually a Trusted partner for a company called Ablepreneurs, so they 287 00:18:47.366 --> 00:18:49.874 help disabled entrepreneurs build their 288 00:18:49.874 --> 00:18:54.605 business. I'm also a volunteer and I've just been accepted as partnership for a 289 00:18:54.605 --> 00:18:59.549 group called FND Friends. They're in the southwest of the uk, so I'll be partnering 290 00:18:59.549 --> 00:19:02.918 with them and being able to give their community help and 291 00:19:02.918 --> 00:19:07.720 support. But I also have my own therapy as such, so I have my own talking therapy, I 292 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:12.594 have my own physiotherapy. I have a lot of people looking after me now, but I've had 293 00:19:12.594 --> 00:19:16.822 to work hard to get those people, which is what I don't want for somebody 294 00:19:16.822 --> 00:19:17.170 else. 295 00:19:21.410 --> 00:19:25.980 You talked about physiotherapy, so part of it is keeping your muscles 296 00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:29.460 active, dealing, as you mentioned, your feet point together 297 00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:32.780 sometimes. It's recognising that and trying to keep yourself physically 298 00:19:33.100 --> 00:19:37.220 active. You know, the use it or lose it mentality really, isn't 299 00:19:37.220 --> 00:19:38.860 it? You've got to keep doing things. 300 00:19:39.660 --> 00:19:43.860 Yeah, absolutely. And it's also about teaching your brain muscle memory and things like 301 00:19:43.860 --> 00:19:47.860 that. Distraction techniques are really, really good, especially if you feel like 302 00:19:47.860 --> 00:19:52.840 you're. If you're like me and you get a symptom before a seizure's coming on, you 303 00:19:52.840 --> 00:19:57.400 do what I call grounding techniques. So you can look around, you can see colours, 304 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:02.320 numbers and just say what you see, hear, feel, smell, things like 305 00:20:02.320 --> 00:20:07.040 that, because it distracts you. Physiotherapy for me has been very hard, 306 00:20:07.040 --> 00:20:11.960 especially when my feet turn in because it's almost like I'm heading back to where 307 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:16.840 I was when it first happened five years ago. And trying to manipulate my feet 308 00:20:16.840 --> 00:20:19.560 back round to where they should be can sometimes take 309 00:20:19.560 --> 00:20:24.420 weeks. I think I've only had one episode where they turn back to normal the day 310 00:20:24.420 --> 00:20:28.700 after and I was really, really happy because that never happened 311 00:20:28.700 --> 00:20:31.700 before. But it's small wins, small changes every 312 00:20:31.700 --> 00:20:36.620 day. And that's what my physios taught me. Muscle memory is, is key for 313 00:20:36.620 --> 00:20:39.540 trying to get your limbs working like they should 314 00:20:39.540 --> 00:20:43.820 be. But that has been the hardest for me is getting my limbs to do 315 00:20:43.820 --> 00:20:44.060 that. 316 00:20:44.060 --> 00:20:48.260 Do you. Do you get an inkling that today is going to be a bad day type 317 00:20:48.260 --> 00:20:53.230 thing? You think, yeah, I just need to prepare myself for a bad day or a bad 318 00:20:53.230 --> 00:20:53.550 week. 319 00:20:54.270 --> 00:20:58.590 Yes. My inkling is a

heavy head. When I wake up, I could have 320 00:20:58.910 --> 00:21:01.950 eight, nine, ten hours sleep and I'll only feel like I've had 321 00:21:01.950 --> 00:21:06.229 two. And that for me is huge. I suffer quite bad with 322 00:21:06.229 --> 00:21:10.830 migraine. Not just last week. I spent four days in a dark room 323 00:21:10.910 --> 00:21:15.790 because I Just had a horrific headache, but I didn't know that 324 00:21:15.790 --> 00:21:19.830 headache was coming on. But normally I get a heavy head when I wake 325 00:21:19.830 --> 00:21:24.250 up. If I feel like I haven't had any sleep, sleep. I'm like, right, okay, today's a low 326 00:21:24.250 --> 00:21:28.930 day. We're gonna keep it minimal. But that's because I've been taught to listen to my 327 00:21:28.930 --> 00:21:29.210 body. 328 00:21:30.410 --> 00:21:35.210 Yeah, the only sort of relative experience I can give you on that 329 00:21:35.210 --> 00:21:39.650 is that I had issues. My gallbladder, probably about six, seven years 330 00:21:39.650 --> 00:21:44.330 ago. Actually, no, it's early Covid and I used to get these really bad attacks 331 00:21:44.730 --> 00:21:47.770 where I'd be on my hands and knees throwing up in the 332 00:21:47.770 --> 00:21:52.640 toilet. And I get an inkling about 20 minutes before and all of a 333 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:57.400 sudden I think it's going to be one of those situations and you get this crescendo of 334 00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:02.280 pain. Arm going numb and you get pains and then it's shot down 335 00:22:02.280 --> 00:22:05.840 your arms. And I'd be on my hands and knees, I'd end up being sick into the 336 00:22:05.840 --> 00:22:09.320 toilet. And all of a sudden it cleared and then I was back to normal 337 00:22:09.320 --> 00:22:14.080 again. And it was a really strange thing. So I was so glad to have my gallbladder out when it, 338 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:19.110 when they took it out. It was instant relief. But yeah, I had probably two or three years 339 00:22:19.510 --> 00:22:23.750 of this randomness of debilitating pain in my chest 340 00:22:24.230 --> 00:22:27.590 that always led me to throw up. I couldn't not throw up if you 341 00:22:27.590 --> 00:22:32.390 like. So, yeah, I kind of get that feeling. And I still suffer now from quite 342 00:22:32.470 --> 00:22:37.270 bad acid, acid reflux, where I can be just getting on with life all of 343 00:22:37.270 --> 00:22:42.080 suddenly go, oh, in five minutes time, I'm going to end up this real bad 344 00:22:42.080 --> 00:22:46.480 pain in my chest. And yet sure enough, it comes and then it'll 345 00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:51.400 pass. But then you get this ptsd, this post event sort of 346 00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:55.200 pain where the trauma makes you feel really for five, six hours 347 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.080 maybe. But that's obviously nowhere near as bad as what you're 348 00:22:58.080 --> 00:22:59.600 experiencing. But I kind of get that. 349 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:04.400 No, but that's your body talking to you. That is your body talking to 350 00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:08.720 you. The fact that you knew that before it was going to happen, that's your body sending you that 351 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:11.130 signal. You've just got to learn to listen. 352 00:23:12.090 --> 00:23:16.346 Yeah. And I share your frustration that the medical professionals 353 00:23:16.346 --> 00:23:21.210 just. They give you an mri, they give you a ct, they give you this, they give you 354 00:23:21.210 --> 00:23:26.074 that, you do the barium swallow, you go through their thing and they go, yeah, 355 00:23:26.074 --> 00:23:30.178 well, just have to live with it. You go, well, yeah, yeah, really, 356 00:23:30.178 --> 00:23:33.370 that. Take some Gaviscon and hope for the best. And 357 00:23:33.370 --> 00:23:38.082 it's. That's the frustration when you realise you're now living with this 358 00:23:38.082 --> 00:23:41.426 persistent randomness that can hit you at a moment's 359 00:23:41.426 --> 00:23:41.958 notice. 360 00:23:42.530 --> 00:23:45.930 Yes, absolutely. And that's really scary to go through life like 361 00:23:45.930 --> 00:23:46.170 that. 362 00:23:46.170 --> 00:23:50.650 Yeah. And I think once you. Once you understand the pattern, it's not so 363 00:23:50.650 --> 00:23:55.410 bad. I think the first few weeks of it, you. You try and you're 364 00:23:55.410 --> 00:23:59.130 desperately thinking, was it something I ate, Was it the way I was sitting, was it the time of 365 00:23:59.130 --> 00:24:02.370 day? And you. All these permutations go in your head and there's 366 00:24:02.450 --> 00:24:06.090 actually. There is no correlation here. It just 367 00:24:06.090 --> 00:24:06.650 happened. 368 00:24:07.290 --> 00:24:10.410 Yeah, absolutely. And it's so 369 00:24:10.410 --> 00:24:10.810 scary. 370 00:24:11.930 --> 00:24:16.650 Yeah. So you're living in a world and people talk about 371 00:24:16.650 --> 00:24:21.210 the social model of disability versus the medical model. You must have come across 372 00:24:21.370 --> 00:24:24.770 a lot of society where you are not the 373 00:24:24.770 --> 00:24:29.450 problem. It's the environment, it's the service provider, it's the way that you're not 374 00:24:29.450 --> 00:24:34.370 catered for. It's the issue what, what things that kind of surprised you the most with that difficult 375 00:24:34.370 --> 00:24:34.730 one. 376 00:24:36.250 --> 00:24:40.981 So because of my symptoms are not day to day, they're not the same every 377 00:24:40.981 --> 00:24:44.405 day. I can. Let's say, example, I've been on hikes, 378 00:24:44.405 --> 00:24:49.054 okay. I'm. I'm able, when I'm having good days, to do the things that I 379 00:24:49.054 --> 00:24:54.031 enjoy that I used to do. So I go on hikes with my partner and we climb the Pen y 380 00:24:54.031 --> 00:24:58.354 Fan in Wales. And it's not a massively high mountain, let's say, 381 00:24:58.354 --> 00:25:03.166 technically, if I was a whale person, it probably

would have taken me an 382 00:25:03.166 --> 00:25:08.142 hour, but it took me nearly three hours to do it, so I was up and back down and 383 00:25:08.142 --> 00:25:12.952 I put it on social media. My achievement, because I've always wanted to 384 00:25:12.952 --> 00:25:16.870 climb the Pen y Fan, always. And I got a lot of criticism for 385 00:25:16.870 --> 00:25:20.870 it. I got a lot of. But you don't look sick. I thought you were 386 00:25:20.870 --> 00:25:25.031 poorly. I thought you couldn't walk. You know, a lot of people 387 00:25:25.031 --> 00:25:30.007 criticising the fact that I had done it. What they didn't see was the three 388 00:25:30.007 --> 00:25:34.816 days afterwards of me recovering in bed. Constant tiredness, my bones 389 00:25:34.816 --> 00:25:39.628 aching, all of my joints aching, my feet turning in, unbelievably, not 390 00:25:39.628 --> 00:25:43.543 being able to walk, just the struggle for three solid days 391 00:25:43.543 --> 00:25:48.438 afterwards. So, I mean, the phrase you don't look sick comes up a hell of a 392 00:25:48.438 --> 00:25:50.968 lot for me. I deal with that a lot in the 393 00:25:50.968 --> 00:25:55.699 public. I have my sunflower lanyard. Just the other day on the train, I 394 00:25:55.699 --> 00:26:00.430 scanned my ticket and the gentleman on there was, oh, I need to See your 395 00:26:00.430 --> 00:26:05.404 disabled rail card? So I showed it to him and he just looked at me up and down 396 00:26:05.404 --> 00:26:08.422 and he was like, right, okay, and just walked 397 00:26:08.422 --> 00:26:13.153 away. So it differs. You can get some good receptives, you can get some 398 00:26:13.153 --> 00:26:18.127 bad, but you've just got to remain calm in it all the time and just remember 399 00:26:18.127 --> 00:26:21.551 that they're not seeing what goes on behind closed 400 00:26:21.551 --> 00:26:24.732 doors. I don't look sick. I don't look sick even 401 00:26:24.732 --> 00:26:29.625 now. But what you're not seeing behind closed doors is how overwhelmed I 402 00:26:29.625 --> 00:26:34.031 am, how tired I am and also how excited I am because it's not always 403 00:26:34.031 --> 00:26:34.460 shown. 404 00:26:34.700 --> 00:26:39.460 You'd think in 2026 we as a society would have come a long way or 405 00:26:39.460 --> 00:26:44.220 far enough to understand that. What does not sick look 406 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:49.100 like? You know, what does having a disability look like, sound like, feel 407 00:26:49.100 --> 00:26:53.860 like? It's where. Why do we need to rush to judgement and 408 00:26:54.020 --> 00:26:58.820 have an opinion on someone's ability or lack of ability and then 409 00:26:58.820 --> 00:27:01.900 say, well, you're not, you're not disabled enough. You know, what does that 410 00:27:01.900 --> 00:27:02.180 mean? 411 00:27:02.260 --> 00:27:05.620 It's difficult because, I mean, we've all probably done it through our 412 00:27:05.620 --> 00:27:10.500 life. We've seen someone park in a disabled bay at a supermarket and watch them get out of the car 413 00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:14.580 because you're looking for their disability. It's almost like you're looking for 414 00:27:14.660 --> 00:27:18.660 confirmation that that person has a right to use that parking 415 00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:23.380 space. I don't know what looking sick looks like to other 416 00:27:23.380 --> 00:27:28.180 people. It's difficult. Everybody has their own opinion on what 417 00:27:28.900 --> 00:27:33.860 makes you look sick. You can have somebody with cancer who looks normal, you know, 418 00:27:33.860 --> 00:27:38.020 looks perfectly healthy, just probably looks a bit tired, but they could be inside 419 00:27:38.180 --> 00:27:41.820 absolutely in excruciating pain and 420 00:27:41.820 --> 00:27:45.300 everything. You know, it depends on that individual 421 00:27:45.300 --> 00:27:50.030 themselves. But it's a question I ask quite a lot. What does that looking sick look like 422 00:27:50.110 --> 00:27:50.670 to you? 423 00:27:52.510 --> 00:27:57.430 And also, I think under the definition of being diagnosed with a 424 00:27:57.430 --> 00:28:02.270 disability, it has to be a condition that persists for a year or more, 425 00:28:02.350 --> 00:28:07.230 doesn't it? It can't be a short term. My wife recently had a total 426 00:28:07.230 --> 00:28:11.950 knee replacement and she couldn't walk effectively or, well, 427 00:28:12.750 --> 00:28:17.390 for best part, two or three months. But she didn't qualify for a temporary 428 00:28:17.470 --> 00:28:22.190 disabled badge because she wasn't disabled under the definition of being free 429 00:28:22.190 --> 00:28:26.990 year. And we struggled. You know, there were places at times where I couldn't park so that she 430 00:28:26.990 --> 00:28:30.270 could go shopping or get out of the car. She was using a stick at the 431 00:28:30.270 --> 00:28:34.830 time. So there's a hierarchy here of 432 00:28:35.150 --> 00:28:38.390 being not long 433 00:28:38.390 --> 00:28:43.380 term. And I always think there should be a consideration for people who are going through 434 00:28:43.540 --> 00:28:48.180 a recovery process where they have the same needs as somebody with long term disabilities 435 00:28:48.820 --> 00:28:52.140 but need to support in the short term. And that's a 436 00:28:52.140 --> 00:28:56.860 very. Quite a frustration that I felt just being a carer for my wife for 437 00:28:56.860 --> 00:29:00.020 those two or three months during that recovery 438 00:29:00.020 --> 00:29:00.420 phase. 439 00:29:01.300 --> 00:29:06.100 Yeah, I believe that's absolutely true. There should be something, especially with something 440 00:29:06.100 --> 00:29:10.780 like knee or hip operations. It's something that you are going to be disabled 441 00:29:10.780 --> 00:29:15.540 for a period of time, but unfortunately a disability is only something that's 442 00:29:15.540 --> 00:29:18.820 classed as over 12 months, like you said. Do you think that does need

to be 443 00:29:18.820 --> 00:29:21.220 addressed? Definitely, yeah. 444 00:29:21.220 --> 00:29:26.209 Because I did inquire at the council whether we could get a temporary badge and they said no, under the 445 00:29:26.209 --> 00:29:30.664 Equality Act, we're not obliged. So it's almost like they're using the Equality Act as the 446 00:29:30.664 --> 00:29:35.535 justification where they could have said, yeah, we understand that you've got a doctor's note, we 447 00:29:35.535 --> 00:29:40.524 can see you've had that done. Yeah, here's a temporary badge for you, because each council could do it 448 00:29:40.524 --> 00:29:44.920 if they want to. The disability scheme, I understand, is run by each council, not central 449 00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:49.553 government. So everybody can make discretionary effort here and to support people, but they 450 00:29:49.553 --> 00:29:49.900 don't. 451 00:29:49.900 --> 00:29:53.020 Absolutely, absolutely. And it's wrong that they don't. It really 452 00:29:53.020 --> 00:29:56.900 is. You shouldn't have to fight for it, especially someone that can barely 453 00:29:56.900 --> 00:30:01.580 walk. You know, I've seen it where the council have had 454 00:30:01.580 --> 00:30:06.500 somebody in a wheelchair go back to work and it's like, how are 455 00:30:06.500 --> 00:30:11.220 they supposed to do that? You know, there's no accessible things for them during their job 456 00:30:11.300 --> 00:30:14.740 and it's just not a possibility. You know what I 457 00:30:14.740 --> 00:30:19.500 mean? You go from somebody who can do a job, say, kneeling down and they have knee 458 00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:23.180 operation, that's all right. They can just go back to work and it's like, well, hang 459 00:30:23.180 --> 00:30:28.140 on. No, they can't. They've just had knee operation, you know, there needs to be something in place, I do believe, 460 00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:31.220 for the short term, for people going through something like 461 00:30:31.220 --> 00:30:31.780 that. I agree. 462 00:30:34.470 --> 00:30:39.390 I mean, so it's just little things like getting in and out of a car, you know, being able to bend 463 00:30:39.390 --> 00:30:43.830 your knee to such that you can actually hook it out, in and out of the door, that 464 00:30:43.830 --> 00:30:46.630 it's. Once you're in the car, it's fine. Once you're out of the car, it's 465 00:30:46.630 --> 00:30:51.030 fine. But that transition to standing up, to sitting down, you say kneeling down, 466 00:30:51.270 --> 00:30:55.830 bending over and even just getting used to being able to walk 467 00:30:56.870 --> 00:31:01.650 without, because it offers your gait, doesn't it, you're putting your pressure on your hips in a different 468 00:31:01.650 --> 00:31:06.570 way, you're leaning differently. My wife suffered some strains and 469 00:31:06.570 --> 00:31:08.930 pulls to her back because she wasn't walking in the same 470 00:31:08.930 --> 00:31:13.090 alignment. There's a whole load of factors. It's not just the knee, it's holistic again, 471 00:31:13.090 --> 00:31:17.810 isn't? We talked about holistic well being and the hospital 472 00:31:17.890 --> 00:31:22.810 said, yep, it's done, it's stitched up, look after it, put some cream on it, take the bandages 473 00:31:22.810 --> 00:31:26.860 off after two weeks and then get on with life. Okay, right, great, thank 474 00:31:26.860 --> 00:31:27.100 you. 475 00:31:28.060 --> 00:31:31.380 That's it. That's it. That's. That's pretty much what happens all the 476 00:31:31.380 --> 00:31:35.700 time. They, they simply think that you can just cope on your own and do things on your 477 00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:39.580 own. You know, if you are a person that lives on their own, that becomes even 478 00:31:39.580 --> 00:31:44.460 harder. It's just, it's not right. And I, I do think that sort of thing does need to 479 00:31:44.460 --> 00:31:48.260 be addressed. They need to relook at the length of time that somebody could be 480 00:31:48.260 --> 00:31:51.220 disabled. I mean, FND is, is put into two 481 00:31:51.220 --> 00:31:55.980 categories. You've got acute and chronic. So acute is where they, it, it 482 00:31:56.360 --> 00:32:01.160 get symptoms, but it doesn't last very long. And chronic, which is the form of FND that I have, 483 00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:06.000 is where it becomes a lifetime. I remember in the early stages, I was told by a 484 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:10.840 neurologist that the numbness down the left side of my body will go after seven days and here I am 485 00:32:10.840 --> 00:32:13.920 five years later, still completely numb down the left side of my 486 00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:18.840 body. But they do, they expect you to go home and do it all yourself without any 487 00:32:18.840 --> 00:32:22.160 help. And I think that's where the NHS is 488 00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:25.200 failing. And I don't specifically blame the NHS for 489 00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:28.780 that. Maybe it's because they haven't got the resources for that or the people for 490 00:32:28.780 --> 00:32:29.940 that. We just don't know. 491 00:32:30.180 --> 00:32:33.300 That is the challenge with chronic versus acute, isn't 492 00:32:33.300 --> 00:32:37.740 it? I think, yes. Chronic is basically, it's your problem, get on with 493 00:32:37.740 --> 00:32:41.860 it. Acute, there's acute medicine, ward, there's dealing with it because 494 00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:46.900 it starts, it ends, whereas chronic, it's just like, well, we don't know what to do with 495 00:32:46.900 --> 00:32:50.300 you. We can't keep looking after you forever. You just have to go on and manage it 496 00:32:50.300 --> 00:32:52.980 yourself. And that's where you are now with the chronic, isn't it? 497 00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:58.430 Yeah. So that's pretty much it. I mean, I had my last appointment with my neurologist last 498 00:32:58.430 --> 00:33:03.390 year and he was, he was quite abrupt with it, but he said to 499 00:33:03.390 --> 00:33:07.190

me, there's literally nothing else we can do for you. We have done everything for 500 00:33:07.190 --> 00:33:12.110 you. And I was like, okay, so I'm supposed to just go home and just live with 501 00:33:12.110 --> 00:33:16.830 this and deal with it myself? And he was like, yeah, pretty much, there's nothing more we can 502 00:33:16.830 --> 00:33:21.710 do. You've had talking therapy, you've had physiotherapy. And it actually turns out that when I 503 00:33:21.710 --> 00:33:26.510 went back to my GP with that, they referred me to a clinic called the Rosa Burden 504 00:33:26.510 --> 00:33:31.450 Centre. Now they specialise in fnd and I'm now on the waiting list to be 505 00:33:31.450 --> 00:33:36.210 put in with them for three weeks to learn how to deal with my symptoms and 506 00:33:36.450 --> 00:33:41.250 how to face them and cope. So it turns out there actually is something else that can be 507 00:33:41.250 --> 00:33:45.650 done. It just means three weeks inside a hospital, but you're learning 508 00:33:46.290 --> 00:33:50.690 about fnd, you're learning about the triggers, you're learning about coping 509 00:33:50.690 --> 00:33:54.850 mechanisms and everything else. So, you know, this was 510 00:33:54.850 --> 00:33:58.980 a. A specialist consultant told me, no, nothing more we can 511 00:33:58.980 --> 00:34:02.820 do. And then within two weeks, I had a referral to the Rosa Burden 512 00:34:02.820 --> 00:34:03.100 Centre. 513 00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:06.380 So, again, is this the problem with our healthcare 514 00:34:06.380 --> 00:34:09.740 professionals? They've got their playbook, they've got their 515 00:34:10.060 --> 00:34:13.340 parameters. This is what we can do. If 516 00:34:13.340 --> 00:34:18.100 we. You're the extent of where we are. If you need to go something else, you're going to have to go outside of what 517 00:34:18.100 --> 00:34:22.980 we. But there's no signposting, there's no. Actually, what we should do now 518 00:34:22.980 --> 00:34:27.940 is you step out of the NHS into the private sector and this is your new 519 00:34:27.940 --> 00:34:30.780 pathway and the baton passes over to somebody 520 00:34:30.780 --> 00:34:31.140 else. 521 00:34:31.940 --> 00:34:36.784 Yes, that's how it should be. Absolutely. And that should have been done probably on 522 00:34:36.784 --> 00:34:40.177 the day that I was sent home, rather than a few years down the 523 00:34:40.177 --> 00:34:45.019 line. But like I said, my partner is absolutely relentless when it comes to research 524 00:34:45.019 --> 00:34:50.002 and he was the one that found the Rosa Burden Centre. And I believe there's one in London 525 00:34:50.002 --> 00:34:53.807 as well. I don't know what that one's called, but I believe there's 526 00:34:53.807 --> 00:34:58.650 a. A centre in London where you go in to stay and they teach you about your symptoms and 527 00:34:58.650 --> 00:35:01.350 they teach you how to cope, they teach you about 528 00:35:01.350 --> 00:35:06.332 triggers. And

I've heard a lot of positive stories coming out of the Rosa Burden Centre 529 00:35:06.332 --> 00:35:11.315 through others who have been in, said it was a life changing experience and they manage 530 00:35:11.315 --> 00:35:14.566 their symptoms a lot better. So there is further help out 531 00:35:14.566 --> 00:35:18.925 there. You've just really got to know where to look. And I think this is where 532 00:35:18.925 --> 00:35:23.629 healthcare needs to be educated on that situation. And like I said, get to it at the 533 00:35:23.629 --> 00:35:27.228 beginning rather than three quarters of the way down the line, 534 00:35:27.228 --> 00:35:27.560 yeah. 535 00:35:28.200 --> 00:35:32.943 I think when my mother in law went through her, she was eventually diagnosed with 536 00:35:32.943 --> 00:35:37.685 dementia, probably vascular dementia as a result of some blood loss and some low 537 00:35:37.685 --> 00:35:42.428 blood pressure at one point. And she went through this real phase where we didn't 538 00:35:42.428 --> 00:35:45.258 recognise who she was, she was completely out of 539 00:35:45.258 --> 00:35:48.869 character. But nobody was saying to us about these different 540 00:35:48.869 --> 00:35:53.327 symptoms. And there was. She used to get really bad symptoms at twilight and 541 00:35:53.327 --> 00:35:57.505 apparently there's something called sundowning which we didn't know 542 00:35:57.505 --> 00:36:02.390 about. And my father was in nursing home and he had a bad reaction to antibiotics and 543 00:36:02.390 --> 00:36:07.345 an infection and he started getting. Becoming delirious and reacting differently 544 00:36:07.345 --> 00:36:10.955 sort of to venture like symptoms. And nobody prepares you for 545 00:36:10.955 --> 00:36:15.912 this. No one says this is what it is. You're sitting there as a family member watching 546 00:36:15.912 --> 00:36:19.097 your loved one turn into a completely different human 547 00:36:19.097 --> 00:36:24.055 being. And if someone said to us, oh yeah, this is what's known as sundowning, this is 548 00:36:24.055 --> 00:36:28.728 what's known as a reaction due to this, that your loved one is going to react like 549 00:36:28.728 --> 00:36:31.985 this, don't worry about it, it will pass or it will be the 550 00:36:31.985 --> 00:36:36.659 situation. There's no signposting. I often said at the time what we need in this 551 00:36:36.659 --> 00:36:40.625 country or maybe other places in the world, I call it a personal care 552 00:36:40.625 --> 00:36:44.095 manager. So someone's allocated to you to be your joined up 553 00:36:44.095 --> 00:36:47.067 process. So that they say, okay, we'll dip you into 554 00:36:47.067 --> 00:36:50.110 this. Now we're pulling you out of that, dip you into 555 00:36:50.110 --> 00:36:55.065 that. Because otherwise every time you move between the service, you get dropped on 556 00:36:55.065 --> 00:36:59.808 the floor and you either have to pick yourself up or you have to find someone who's 557 00:36:59.808 --> 00:37:04.693 prepared to reach in. There's no continuity. And I think the personal care manager 558 00:37:04.693 --> 00:37:09.578 in my idea was this person would be assigned to you for your lifetime, if you like, or 559 00:37:09.578 --> 00:37:14.533 this role would be assigned to you. So you've always got someone you can dip in and dip 560 00:37:14.533 --> 00:37:17.576 out of and then they would do the signposting and the 561 00:37:17.576 --> 00:37:18.355 enablement. 562 00:37:19.100 --> 00:37:24.020 That's it. Exactly. And that's the thing you hit the nail on the head with being dropped in that 563 00:37:24.020 --> 00:37:28.980 gap. It's so hard for people to pick you back up or for you to find 564 00:37:28.980 --> 00:37:33.940 somebody to pick you back up and you find yourself saying the same things over and 565 00:37:33.940 --> 00:37:38.890 over and over again. And in the end you only seem to get help when people 566 00:37:38.890 --> 00:37:43.690 have had enough from hearing from you. It's not a case of oh yeah, we really want to help, it's 567 00:37:44.250 --> 00:37:49.170 this person again, we really need to get them off our backs and that's when they Go, well, why don't you 568 00:37:49.170 --> 00:37:53.850 try this? This is this. And that's. It's an awful situation, but that is the reality of 569 00:37:53.850 --> 00:37:54.089 it. 570 00:37:54.089 --> 00:37:58.650 I want to say right at the beginning that I would like to be looked after 571 00:37:59.130 --> 00:38:04.050 in the way you'll look after me when I get angry. How about we skip the getting angry 572 00:38:04.050 --> 00:38:08.190 bit and you just do what you would do before I get angry rather than after I get 573 00:38:08.190 --> 00:38:08.550 angry. 574 00:38:09.190 --> 00:38:11.190 Yeah, that is it. Exactly. 575 00:38:11.190 --> 00:38:11.990 That's the frustration. 576 00:38:12.550 --> 00:38:16.750 Yeah, yeah. I've lost count the amount of times that I got angry with healthcare 577 00:38:16.750 --> 00:38:17.390 professionals. 578 00:38:17.390 --> 00:38:22.070 Lost count, yeah. And you just want them to do what they 579 00:38:22.070 --> 00:38:24.910 did, but without getting angry. That's all you 580 00:38:24.910 --> 00:38:27.830 need. You know that somewhere. 581 00:38:29.110 --> 00:38:31.870 Yeah. If there was a solution, why didn't you give it to me in the first place? 582 00:38:31.870 --> 00:38:36.261 Yeah, yeah. Why did I have to get stressy? Why did my wellbeing have to 583 00:38:36.261 --> 00:38:39.882 suffer? Why did I have to go home every night feeling like 584 00:38:39.882 --> 00:38:44.738 this? And that's the frustration, because you end up getting angry because 585 00:38:44.738 --> 00:38:48.900 you know, if you keep pushing, the solution is there, but there's 586 00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:53.832 no. There's. Yeah, there's none of this continuity where someone's going to 587 00:38:53.832 --> 00:38:57.222 go, yes, we can do that, like signposting what you're

588 00:38:57.222 --> 00:39:02.077 after. There must be an index. I mean, I'm hoping that AI and technology will 589 00:39:02.077 --> 00:39:06.855 help because it'd be much easier to get onto your phone, type in, there's my 590 00:39:06.855 --> 00:39:09.937 symptoms, and I just say, that's it. What can I do 591 00:39:09.937 --> 00:39:14.792 next? And then hopefully AI or technology will be your care manager enables 592 00:39:14.792 --> 00:39:19.647 you to signpost yourself or someone develop an app for it where you can check 593 00:39:19.647 --> 00:39:22.421 yourself in and it will take you through the 594 00:39:22.421 --> 00:39:23.038 pathway. 595 00:39:23.860 --> 00:39:25.260 Yeah, that would be handy. 596 00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:30.120 Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned the fact that you've got a numbness in your left 597 00:39:30.120 --> 00:39:34.840 hand side. How is it to the point where is it just 598 00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:39.680 numbness but you could still use it, you just don't know. You just got a lack of feeling, is 599 00:39:39.680 --> 00:39:40.000 it? 600 00:39:40.720 --> 00:39:45.000 Yeah. So to start with, it was I couldn't move the left side at 601 00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.880 all. But now, through physiotherapy, I've learned that I 602 00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:52.880 still have to see what I'm doing, but I can still do normal 603 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:57.510 things. The only thing I don't really do too much is the cooking and the 604 00:39:57.660 --> 00:40:01.060 kitchen because I burnt my arm on the left 605 00:40:01.060 --> 00:40:04.740 side. I've cut myself numerous times cutting vegetables and things like 606 00:40:04.740 --> 00:40:09.660 that. So it's kind of been a risk assessment done with an occupational therapist 607 00:40:09.660 --> 00:40:14.540 so that I can't do things in the kitchen myself other People have to do it for me or I have to do 608 00:40:14.540 --> 00:40:18.060 it supervised. So it is complete numbness. It's almost. It's not like 609 00:40:18.060 --> 00:40:20.260 tingling. It's like when you have a local 610 00:40:20.260 --> 00:40:23.820 anaesthetic. It's there, but I can't feel 611 00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:27.500 it. But like I said, if. When I'm walking, I have to look at my 612 00:40:27.500 --> 00:40:32.420 feet. I can't look up and look straight. I have to look at my feet to make sure I know where I'm 613 00:40:32.420 --> 00:40:37.260 stepping. If I pick something up, I've got to watch it because I don't know the strength of my own hand, 614 00:40:37.580 --> 00:40:40.740 because I can't feel it. Yeah, it's complete 615 00:40:40.740 --> 00:40:44.380 numbness. And it's almost like somebody's drawn a line right down 616 00:40:45.660 --> 00:40:50.060 my body, the centre of my body and the left side. There's no feeling at all from your 617 00:40:50.060 --> 00:40:51.180 ears to your toes. 618 00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:52.740 Nothing at all. 619 00:40:52.740 --> 00:40:57.630 Wow. So it's a bit. It's definitely like going to the dentist, having an injection and 620 00:40:57.630 --> 00:41:01.790 then trying to eat a sandwich when you get home. It's. You can't do 621 00:41:01.790 --> 00:41:02.070 it. 622 00:41:02.950 --> 00:41:07.830 No. No. There's a lot of things I can't do, but anything I do, I have to watch what 623 00:41:07.830 --> 00:41:12.430 I'm doing, otherwise it doesn't happen. I don't know how many times I've gone to pick up a 624 00:41:12.430 --> 00:41:16.990 bottle and I've missed it or I've knocked it over because I've not watched what I'm 625 00:41:16.990 --> 00:41:20.150 doing. But as long as I can see, I'm 626 00:41:20.150 --> 00:41:20.470 fine. 627 00:41:20.470 --> 00:41:23.830 So your eyelids. You must chomp on the inside of your 628 00:41:23.990 --> 00:41:26.390 cheeks. Do you, with your. You bite into yourself? 629 00:41:26.950 --> 00:41:29.710 Yes. Quite a lot. Quite a lot. I draw blood quite a lot as 630 00:41:29.710 --> 00:41:29.950 well. 631 00:41:29.950 --> 00:41:34.070 I was just trying to contemplate that. And the realisation is that 632 00:41:34.070 --> 00:41:37.630 it's. That's a lifelong condition as well. It's not a transient 633 00:41:37.630 --> 00:41:37.990 thing. 634 00:41:38.630 --> 00:41:41.510 No. And that's the thing I was told would come back within seven 635 00:41:41.510 --> 00:41:41.830 days. 636 00:41:43.190 --> 00:41:48.024 I had a viral infection in my inner ear, or this is what they hypothesised 637 00:41:48.024 --> 00:41:51.974 probably about 10, 15 years ago, where I woke up one day and I 638 00:41:51.974 --> 00:41:56.166 was. I said I was deaf. I wasn't deaf. I became extremely hard of 639 00:41:56.166 --> 00:42:00.839 hearing. My hearing reduced by 80 or 90%. I had to have subtitles on the 640 00:42:00.839 --> 00:42:03.823 telly. I had to really listen to people. And I 641 00:42:03.823 --> 00:42:08.659 just. I went to the doctor and he said, well, it would just clear up within 642 00:42:08.659 --> 00:42:11.963 six weeks to 12 weeks and nothing we could do about 643 00:42:11.963 --> 00:42:16.960 it. And I was kind of. I got used to this idea that I was living in this muffled 644 00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:21.232 world. It was like I had noise-cancelling headphones on all the 645 00:42:21.232 --> 00:42:25.828 time. And I was quite, in a way it was quite comical because I had young 646 00:42:25.828 --> 00:42:30.502 children at the time and they were watching me watch the telly with the 647 00:42:30.502 --> 00:42:35.338 subtitles and they go, hey, you can't. Yeah. And I was out with my friends 648 00:42:35.338 --> 00:42:40.255 and we were sort of joking about it and I was, I suppose, because I believed 649 00:42:40.255 --> 00:42:43.962 at the time it would clear itself within. Just had to sit 650 00:42:43.962 --> 00:42:48.960 out. It became a bit of a joke. Fortunately, I woke up one day and I went, wow, 651 00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:53.873 my hearing's back. Wow. And it literally was, it went away and it came back 652

00:42:53.873 --> 00:42:58.708 over and it was about six to 12 weeks and I don't know what I would have done 653 00:42:58.708 --> 00:43:01.770 had it not come back. Maybe I'd have got used to 654 00:43:01.770 --> 00:43:06.363 it. But yeah, I know what you mean by this. Having to reorientate your 655 00:43:06.363 --> 00:43:11.361 entire life around this change. I actually had people tell me that I wasn't 656 00:43:11.361 --> 00:43:16.198 really deaf. I just had a hearing impairment because it wasn't terrible 657 00:43:16.198 --> 00:43:19.100 because I wasn't completely deaf. Hang on a 658 00:43:19.100 --> 00:43:23.290 minute. I think, is it an 80% degradation of hearing it classes 659 00:43:23.290 --> 00:43:26.272 deafness? I was definitely 80%. Definitely 660 00:43:26.272 --> 00:43:28.360 80%. I could barely hear. Yeah. 661 00:43:28.680 --> 00:43:31.119 So that must have been quite scary 662 00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:32.280 people judgmental, aren't they? 663 00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:35.320 Yeah, they are, absolutely. But they're not living in. 664 00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:41.480 No, I think it wasn't, it wasn't. I was chairing a board of directors at the 665 00:43:41.480 --> 00:43:46.250 time. During that, during that phase, I remember we had a board meeting and we decided to go to 666 00:43:46.250 --> 00:43:51.210 zero to Switzerland to have the board meeting because we could, you know, we decided to have an away weekend stay in a, in 667 00:43:51.210 --> 00:43:55.650 a chalet and had a, had a weekend long retreat in a chalet in 668 00:43:55.650 --> 00:44:00.570 Switzerland. And I remember I couldn't hear and I was trying to chair this meeting and the 669 00:44:00.570 --> 00:44:05.010 people around the table and we were just laughing at each other because it was so comical 670 00:44:05.890 --> 00:44:10.770 and I shouldn't joke about it, but at the time it was funny. I treated it as a, as a thing 671 00:44:11.010 --> 00:44:15.990 that was humorous because I, I, I, I, I guess the gravitate, the gravity of it didn't sink in at the time, 672 00:44:16.070 --> 00:44:20.070 but I was chairing this board meeting and, and I said, look, this sounds 673 00:44:20.070 --> 00:44:23.190 crazy. I have absolutely no idea what you just said. Can we do that 674 00:44:23.190 --> 00:44:28.110 again? And having to repeat themselves all the time. And yeah, it was, I got, 675 00:44:28.110 --> 00:44:30.870 I got the best night's sleep ever. Cause I, I couldn't hear anything. 676 00:44:30.950 --> 00:44:31.990 Yeah, I bet you did. 677 00:44:32.790 --> 00:44:37.502 Yeah. But I mean I, I'm, I'm 61 years old. 61 and a half years old and I, I 678 00:44:37.502 --> 00:44:41.223 think it's hard to go through life without having some 679 00:44:41.223 --> 00:44:46.101 stories. Maybe I'm not unlucky or I've had some stories where I've got a 680 00:44:46.101 --> 00:44:50.814 lot of empathy for where you are. Obviously not the long term chronic 681 00:44:50.814 --> 00:44:55.609 condition you're managing at the moment, but I've been a dip in and dip 682 00:44:55.609 --> 00:45:00.237 out of the world you live in and had some experience of it being acute 683 00:45:00.237 --> 00:45:05.031 rather than chronic. And certainly seeing my father, my mother in law 684 00:45:05.031 --> 00:45:09.660 and, and even my mother who is now 87 going through that stage of life 685 00:45:09.660 --> 00:45:13.545 where she started to slow down. She needs more help, more 686 00:45:13.545 --> 00:45:18.008 support. Three years ago she could just go for a walk and we walked 687 00:45:18.008 --> 00:45:22.059 around. Now she's saying, I need to sit down, I can't do this 688 00:45:22.059 --> 00:45:27.019 anymore. But to have that at your age, and I don't want to judge how old you 689 00:45:27.019 --> 00:45:29.995 are, but you're certainly not in your later 690 00:45:29.995 --> 00:45:34.872 life. You're still in that prime zone of your life life trying to come to 691 00:45:34.872 --> 00:45:36.029 terms with this. 692 00:45:36.510 --> 00:45:39.030 It's life changing. Absolutely is life changing. 693 00:45:39.030 --> 00:45:43.350 But you're happy, you're happy in a, in your life changed, aren't 694 00:45:43.350 --> 00:45:45.710 you? You've got a lot of life to live. 695 00:45:46.510 --> 00:45:50.510 I am, yes. Yeah. I make the most of, of what I got on my energy 696 00:45:50.510 --> 00:45:54.630 days. I always make note of how I feel in the morning and that will determine my 697 00:45:54.630 --> 00:45:59.390 day. But I think because I've come to terms with the fact that this is me now, this is my life, 698 00:46:00.350 --> 00:46:05.190 all I can do now is pass my experience and wisdom onto others and hope 699 00:46:05.190 --> 00:46:07.750 that it helps them so. And that makes me very 700 00:46:07.750 --> 00:46:08.190 happy. 701 00:46:08.190 --> 00:46:11.910 So the experience and wisdom you pass on, what is that? What does that look 702 00:46:11.910 --> 00:46:16.470 like? What is the wisdom you're telling people when they're faced with 703 00:46:16.470 --> 00:46:18.510 this? My life has changed. 704 00:46:21.230 --> 00:46:23.390 How do you make that sound less bad? 705 00:46:25.230 --> 00:46:29.950 It depends on the situation, obviously. But it's a little bit like taking 706 00:46:30.110 --> 00:46:34.730 every day as it comes, taking small steps, trying to guide people into not 707 00:46:34.730 --> 00:46:39.690 pushing themselves too far. I say the main thing that the hardest thing that I learned was accepting 708 00:46:39.690 --> 00:46:44.570 the fact that I had a disability. So I can't sit there and say to somebody, you need to accept this, 709 00:46:44.650 --> 00:46:49.130 your old life is gone. Because I know when I was told that it really 710 00:46:49.130 --> 00:46:53.450 upset me. So basically it's just a case of supporting them emotionally 711 00:46:54.010 --> 00:46:58.480 and any questions they ask, being able to answer them to the full of my 712

00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:02.360 ability. And like I said, it depends on people's different experiences 713 00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:07.200 themselves. Anyone that's even slightly similar to Me, I'll give them the advice that I 714 00:47:07.200 --> 00:47:10.680 had and I give them what I do on a daily 715 00:47:10.680 --> 00:47:15.360 basis. I share my life quite, quite a lot with my clients and they're more than 716 00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:20.120 happy to hear the good days and the bad days. But I think it helps coming from somebody 717 00:47:20.120 --> 00:47:24.920 who has lived it themself and who does things like they do, 718 00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:29.440 like cancel appointments, not socialise, because they don't 719 00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:33.620 feel. Feel up to it and not feeling guilty for it. My biggest 720 00:47:34.740 --> 00:47:38.660 message to people is to work with your energy, not against 721 00:47:38.740 --> 00:47:40.700 it. That was the biggest thing for me. 722 00:47:40.700 --> 00:47:44.020 So if you're having one of those days, you're having one of those days. Don't fight 723 00:47:44.020 --> 00:47:47.620 it. No. You're not feeling it. Come back 724 00:47:47.620 --> 00:47:48.100 tomorrow. 725 00:47:48.580 --> 00:47:51.860 No. And don't feel guilty for it. Don't feel guilty for not doing 726 00:47:51.860 --> 00:47:52.180 it. 727 00:47:52.180 --> 00:47:52.980 Are you brave? 728 00:47:53.060 --> 00:47:55.820 I've been told I'm brave. I don't always feel like I 729 00:47:55.820 --> 00:48:00.800 am. I do feel like a burden quite a lot. But I have been told by quite a 730 00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:05.120 few people that I am brave, especially for starting my own business in my 731 00:48:05.120 --> 00:48:07.920 condition. So, yeah, 50. 50. 732 00:48:08.080 --> 00:48:11.680 I always find it's a very tricky thing, isn't 733 00:48:11.680 --> 00:48:16.480 it? People give you that label of braveness, even though you 734 00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:19.200 don't necessarily identify as brave 735 00:48:19.200 --> 00:48:19.760 yourself. 736 00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:25.040 Yeah, I definitely don't feel brave. I just. I see myself as just 737 00:48:25.040 --> 00:48:28.910 somebody that can. That can help others and that's what life's 738 00:48:28.910 --> 00:48:32.310 about. It's about helping other people. It's about giving yourself that 739 00:48:33.110 --> 00:48:35.510 wellbeing. Knowing that you've helped somebody. 740 00:48:35.510 --> 00:48:38.230 Permission to cry if you need to is fine, isn't it? 741 00:48:39.510 --> 00:48:41.270 Absolutely. Absolutely. 742 00:48:41.270 --> 00:48:44.110 I think. I think that's the brave thing, isn't 743 00:48:44.110 --> 00:48:49.070 it? The brave thing is allowing yourself to be at one with how you feel, 744 00:48:49.070 --> 00:48:50.350 your emotions and. 745 00:48:50.350 --> 00:48:53.950 Yeah, yeah, yeah, 746 00:48:54.110 --> 00:48:54.830 absolutely. 747 00:48:54.830 --> 00:48:58.750 You have to grieve, you have to. You

have to say, this isn't 748 00:48:58.750 --> 00:49:02.150 fair. I feel aggrieved. I feel that 749 00:49:02.150 --> 00:49:06.830 I've. I've. I've had something taken away from me that I thought was my right and 750 00:49:06.830 --> 00:49:11.710 my. And my whole life has panned out and I'm allowed to be angry, I'm allowed to be upset, I'm allowed 751 00:49:11.710 --> 00:49:12.190 to cry. 752 00:49:13.070 --> 00:49:13.750 Yeah, absolutely. 753 00:49:13.750 --> 00:49:16.030 But I'm also allowed to get up again. I'm allowed to get up again. 754 00:49:16.750 --> 00:49:19.510 That's it. Exactly. And I'm a big believer in 755 00:49:19.510 --> 00:49:19.870 that. 756 00:49:20.190 --> 00:49:20.910 You. You. 757 00:49:20.910 --> 00:49:25.270 Things happen for a reason. And I think that my stroke, like, 758 00:49:25.270 --> 00:49:28.950 episode was my reason to create wellness without 759 00:49:28.950 --> 00:49:29.470 barriers. 760 00:49:31.550 --> 00:49:34.750 And now you do so much good using your. Your 761 00:49:34.750 --> 00:49:39.390 bravery. If you want Your superpower to inspire others 762 00:49:39.550 --> 00:49:42.990 and, and give it and give people hope. Because that's the important thing is it is 763 00:49:42.990 --> 00:49:44.750 hope. That's what you need. Can't fathom. 764 00:49:44.750 --> 00:49:45.630 That's it exactly. 765 00:49:45.790 --> 00:49:48.440 No, you need to hope that tomorrow is going to be 766 00:49:48.440 --> 00:49:48.920 okay. 767 00:49:49.560 --> 00:49:52.240 That's it. That is it exactly. Hit the nail on the head there, 768 00:49:52.240 --> 00:49:52.840 Gemma. 769 00:49:53.240 --> 00:49:57.330 Thank you so much for sharing your story. How can people get hold of you? I'm sure people would love to find out 770 00:49:57.330 --> 00:49:57.557 more. 771 00:49:58.520 --> 00:50:02.520 Okay, so I am on LinkedIn under Gemma Davies on 772 00:50:02.520 --> 00:50:07.480 LinkedIn. You can find me on there. And I've got a really nice banner on there with Wellness Without Barriers 773 00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:12.200 written on it. I also have a Facebook page called Wellness Without Barriers and I have my 774 00:50:12.200 --> 00:50:16.040 website, so. www.wellnesswithoutbarriers.co.uk 775 00:50:16.040 --> 00:50:16.640 Fantastic. 776 00:50:16.640 --> 00:50:21.341 I'll put all the links to those in show notes and I'm sure people will be in contact with 777 00:50:21.341 --> 00:50:25.843 you. If you are listening to this, please do make contact with Gemma and don't tell 778 00:50:25.843 --> 00:50:30.281 her. She's brave. Just listen to her story and find out more about how you can help 779 00:50:30.281 --> 00:50:35.247 others. Or if you yourself feel that you know somebody or you or personally affected, then 780 00:50:35.247 --> 00:50:40.080 reach out to Gemma. I'm sure you'd be more than willing to have a conversation, wouldn't 781 00:50:40.080 --> 00:50:40.340 you? 782 00:50:40.900 --> 00:50:42.300 More than willing, Absolutely. 783 00:50:42.300 --> 00:50:43.300 Gemma, thank you. 784 00:50:43.950 --> 00:50:45.230 Thank you very much for having me. 785 00:50:46.830 --> 00:50:51.510 As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest 786 00:50:51.510 --> 00:50:56.190 gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart 787 00:50:56.590 --> 00:51:00.550 to the cause of inclusion. Today's discussion struck a 788 00:51:00.550 --> 00:51:05.350 chord. Consider subscribing to Inclusion Bites and become part of 789 00:51:05.350 --> 00:51:08.270 our ever growing community driving real 790 00:51:08.270 --> 00:51:10.990 change. Share this journey with friends, family and 791 00:51:10.990 --> 00:51:14.060 colleagues. Colleagues, let's amplify the voices that 792 00:51:14.060 --> 00:51:17.863 matter. Got thoughts, storys or a vision to 793 00:51:17.863 --> 00:51:20.772 share? I'm all ears. Reach out to 794 00:51:20.772 --> 00:51:25.599 joanne.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and let's make your voice 795 00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:30.176 heard. Until next time, this is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a 796 00:51:30.176 --> 00:51:34.836 promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, 797 00:51:34.836 --> 00:51:39.829 inspire and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world one 798 00:51:39.829 --> 00:51:42.492 episode at a time. Catch you on the next 799 00:51:42.492 --> 00:51:42.908 bite.