บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Episode 4 - Pecan Nut Casebearer & Early Season Insect Management

00:05:09.279 Um, but there's other varieties that people said they like the flowers they see. 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:14.000 So our biggest question though, and we get to go back to a purba now. 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:18.800 Our biggest question is what about the pecan nut case bear? 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:20.079 Aperba this week. 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:21.360 This is the question. 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:25.439 When should we spray for pecan nut case bear? 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:26.639 Sure, sure. 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:31.600 So uh pecan nut case bear, it's uh in a moth pest. 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:43.680 So the adult moths, this pecan nut case bear is what we call technically their specialist insect, so they only feed on pecan, no other crops. 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:58.560 So they are always in the pecan orchards, uh, and every spring they emerge, and this moths uh they lay eggs, and it's very interesting how this coincides in nature. 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:11.920 So these moths, you know, they develop and they mate, male and female, they mate, and they lay eggs, and their egg laying coincides with this young nutlets. 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:23.199 So for the last you know, few days, I have been checking these nutlets every day, going to our ponder farm and looking at them, and we just started to see some eggs. 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:28.879 So it's very interesting how you know their egg laying correlates with the nut development. 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:38.319 So this picanut case bear, these moths, they emerge in the spring and they made and they start to lay eggs. 00:06:38.560 --> 00:07:10.399 And these eggs are eventually going to hatch in four to five days, and the little caterpillar come out of the eggs, they would start nibbling on the young nutlets, and eventually they will get enter into the nutlets, and that's how they feed on different in a number of nutlets, because this time kind of you have four or five nutlets in a cluster, and they can damage all the four or five nutlets, and they will those nutlets will drop. 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:15.199 So that's the typical damage of pecanut case barrier. 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:30.079 But these insects are going to stay in the orchard, and they might also feed on larger nuts, but that time nuts are much bigger, they will probably damage one or two nuts, and those are insignificant. 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:36.160 But this time of the year when nuts are small, uh, that's when we see the most damage. 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:43.519 That's why we say the first generation of PNC is more damaging than the other generation. 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:53.279 And again, you know, uh, this there will be you know three to four or could be five generations uh of this moth in in pecan orchards. 00:07:53.600 --> 00:08:04.160 And historically, what we have seen that the pressure of this insect population, pecan nut case barrier, is more on the western uh states. 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:15.439 So if you go to Texas, New Mexico, you know, they uh typically experience more pressure from uh pecan nut case barrier than on the eastern side. 00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:19.600 Uh here in Georgia, it's very interesting. 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:31.199 Uh, you know, we at least uh in my program, we have uh started to monitor the pecan nut case barrier population in the last uh three, four years. 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:46.639 And we see we capture a lot of mods, but uh our growers or even all the research scientists here in UGA or in USDA, we see that typically we do not see that damage. 00:08:47.360 --> 00:09:02.960 Although we capture you know a good number of mods and we expect to see higher damage, in reality, we do not see a lot of damage that does not sometimes correlate with the number of mods that we capture. 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:23.759 And it's very interesting why we do not see, and one of the hypotheses, it's still a hypothesis, we have not kind of really tested this in the field, but we have observed that there are a number of predators, you know, there are minute pirate bugs and there are some myriads. 00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:28.559 Um, these are you know called plant bugs, but they are predatory in nature. 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.759 And Ted Cottrell mentioned this, and I started to observe this year. 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:36.879 You know, I'm looking at this more closely. 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:50.480 We see a number of these predators, and if those predators can feed or predate on this PNC, can that case bearer eggs that might lower the overall population? 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:59.279 So, although we may have a lot of moths, but in reality, the actual population or the larval population may be less because of this predation. 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:05.919 So, this is something we are gonna try testing this in the lab and also observe in the field. 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:10.080 Nonetheless, you know, we have moths and we see eggs. 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:14.000 So, in some years, I have seen quite a bit of damage. 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:22.799 For example, last year we saw, you know, a good 10-15% not infestation in desirable, for example. 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:32.799 And we do not have any kind of documentation about which variety has, you know, which variety is more susceptible to case barrier versus other. 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:36.879 But that is something topic of research in coming years. 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:49.360 Something very important that really came out of that or purpose that I was going to get to is, you know, and this is something that y'all have taught me since I've been a part of the team, but but I've heard y'all talk about Dr. 00:10:49.440 --> 00:11:00.240 Ted Cotrell's talked about this, that in all the trapping that goes on this time of the year, and that that trapping is to determine what we call the biofix. 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:05.759 This is what will establish the mating and ultimately laying of the eggs. 00:11:06.000 -->

00:11:10.879 That's what establishes the timing of our application to control them. 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:22.960 But you mentioned this the trap captures don't always correlate with the damage, which makes the management of this more complex. 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:34.559 But your point is we don't know why, but it's just sometimes we catch a lot in the traps and we think, oh wow, this is going to be a big year, and then we have almost no damage. 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:45.200 It is possible that this is because of predator bugs that might be feeding on the case bear eggs once they lay those eggs on the nutlet. 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:57.120 I remember in 2020, now this I remember this because I had first started, the state had 70, it was really more like 80 and 90 percent of a crop. 00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:07.679 And when I say 90%, what I mean is at the end of the branches, what we call the terminals, just about every terminal had a nut set on it through Georgia. 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:25.440 And we recommended that everybody lay low on pecan nut case bear because we were hoping to get that thinning, that they would actually feed on the nut, that nut would drop and then it would thin that crop because that tree is going to have trouble. 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:29.039 It's not gonna fully make a 90% crop very well. 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:37.840 But what we noticed, especially where I'm at and growers who followed the case bear, we had very little damage to case bear that year. 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:41.279 It was like they had all the nuts they could feed on and then virtually none. 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:48.720 And many growers that weren't used to fruit then, and they came out that year and fruit then, they said, we have no choice, we've got to eliminate some of these. 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:53.360 That's probably the most difficult thing to manage with the case bear. 00:12:54.000 --> 00:13:02.480 So should we worry about pecan nut case bear with a high crop set or maybe a low crop set? 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:08.000 I would worry when you know we are kind of on the low year, off-year. 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:10.720 So that's when you don't want to lose too many nuts. 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:19.919 But if we are on year, we have you know the tree is loaded with nuts, then obviously you can lose some nuts uh from pecan nut case barrier. 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:27.840 And those nuts are probably some of those nuts will drop eventually, you know, kind of in the mid-season, anyway. 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:33.840 And again, you know, the insect itself is you know complicated, it's a biological system. 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:41.600 Nobody can really tell what's gonna happen, but we are dependent primarily on this moth capture. 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:46.799 We have the tool to monitor their population when they emerge. 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:49.919 And uh you know, we mentioned about this biofix. 00:13:50.320 --> 00:14:05.519 So every year we put out this trap to capture moths, and when we start to capture moths for two consecutive days in a row, that's when the first day is called the biofix day. 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:14.240 And this biofix, you know, this whole uh system was developed based on a lot of field observations uh out in West. 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:23.919 And very interestingly, this year at our ponder farm, we hit the biofix on April 18th. 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:36.799 And since then, I kept going to the orchard uh and looked at the nutlets, and I never found eggs until 28th of April. 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:50.159 So, according to the you know the literature or the biofix, uh this whole you know system, we should expect this egg uh after 10 days after we hit the biofix. 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:56.799 And it was very surprising that exactly on the 10th day, I was able to find eggs on the nutlet. 00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:03.039 So I think this uh observation or this biofix is you know very solid. 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:14.320 It provides uh at least this information that when you see this moths on the traps, you should expect egg laying after 10 days or so. 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:17.759 And these eggs are going to hatch in four or five days. 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:26.240 And that will give you a kind of idea when you should expect this damage of pecanut case bear on the nutlets. 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:37.759 So if you feel like you need to make an application, then you need to make that application between that 10 to 14 days from the biofix date. 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:43.279 And this biofix date may slightly vary from location to location. 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:51.279 For example, here in the southern part, maybe a little earlier, maybe if you go to a little north, could be a little later. 00:15:51.759 --> 00:16:03.440 So I think there is a value to have these traps uh in our pecan orchards and monitor you know when you see this pecan nut case bear. 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:12.159 And whether you decide to spray or you know, you don't want to spray, it's up to you, or it's depending on the crop. 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:24.000 Every year the scenario could be different, but at least this trap is going to provide that information when to make an application in case you want to make an application. 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.840 What are they kind of looking for in those traps? 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:42.799 So I know I remember it used to be that growers would be told, okay, you if you're trapping, you're kind of monitoring those traps, counting the moths in there every week or a couple times a week, or whatever. 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:57.120 And when you see a peak in the moth trap catches, and then it kind of drops down, that that's kind of your sign that the biofix is taking place. 00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:03.200 Is that what is that accurate or is that it's it's not you know technically accurate. 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:10.640 I think a lot of growers um and our crop consultants, they go

with their experience, I mean what they have seen. 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:17.440 And I personally give more credit to experience than the actual you know one data point. 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:25.599 But you know, the insect emergence, if you think, you know, the emergency usually happens like there are few, you know, early on. 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:30.960 It's I think it's very common in biological system you have this bell-shaped curve. 00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:36.480 So you have fewer early on, then there's a peak, and then again it'll start and drop. 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:51.759 Uh so the biofix is based on you know the initial caps, but after that initial caps, you likely to see higher capture you know in the next couple of days, and then again it will start dropping from that point. 00:17:52.400 --> 00:18:10.079 Again, there are not a kind of solid number when you know what triggers the application, but you know, in our experience uh this year, for example, at our Poner firm, when we had this trap, we started to capture on an average 10 moths per day. 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:13.839 So that tells me there is you know a good amount of moths. 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:17.519 But in some traps, there are very few moths. 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:28.640 So, you know, if you compare these two scenarios, then yeah, I would tempt I would be tempted, you know, tempted to apply or make an application if I have higher capture. 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:42.000 You know, I was recently on a call with my colleagues uh out in New Mexico, and they say that you know there is a consultant, I mean he goes by 20 20 mods. 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:47.839 I mean, when he sees 20 mods on his trap, I mean that's when he kind of triggers his application. 00:18:48.079 --> 00:19:04.559 So again, if you you know see fewer mods, I mean that should not alarm you, but if you started to see at least 10 mods on an average per day for a week period, yes, I think you have a sizable population. 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:07.279 We use the term biofix. 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.160 Can you explain exactly what what that is? 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:19.039 So uh the biofix, you know, uh most of the insects they have this uh degree day model. 00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:27.519 So the degree day model is you know, the insects their development is uh very much dependent on the temperature. 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:35.039 Every time, every day, whatever kind of degree day or the temperature they accumulate, it goes into their biology. 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:51.440 So, for example, insects from starting from egg to get to the first insta or the first you know stage of the larvae and to the second stage of the larvae, every insect needs a certain amount of temperature, what we call that degree day. 00:19:51.680 --> 00:20:06.000 For example, if you have temperature over six, you know, let's say today your daily average is 70 degrees, and in that kind of threshold is 60, so you accumulate 10 degree days, you know, one day. 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:21.440 So if there is uh insect that needs 100 degree days to go from one stage to another stage, so that insect would need you know 10 days of you know this temperature, like 10 degree days over that period. 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:25.519 So again, this biofix is that's kind of the start of the clock. 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:35.119 As soon as we capture this moth, we call this biofix because we expect that after the 10 days, they are going to lay eggs. 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:39.759 So once they start to lay eggs, you know, we know the biology of the insect. 00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:43.359 So the egg needs about four to five days to hatch. 00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:51.599 So now we know that uh when you have, for example, uh 15th of uh April, you have the biofix. 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:56.559 Then after 10 days, that is 25th of April, you expect to see the eggs. 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:03.680 On 30th of April, you expect to see the larvae, and these larvae are going to feed on the nuts. 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:10.799 So again, the biofix is one of those timelines where basically it starts the clock. 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:23.039 I'm gonna go back in time here a little bit because like when I first I think it's I think pecan nut case bearer management has changed tremendously just in the 20-something years that I've been here. 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:24.799 Uh, I've seen it change a lot. 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:27.039 Like when I first came on, of course, Dr. 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:31.680 Dutcher was our research entomologist for pecans, and uh Will Hudson, Dr. 00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:35.200 Will Hudson was our extension entomologist for pecans. 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:43.440 And they worked really hard to try to develop some of this data and information that you're that you're talking about here and discussing. 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:50.720 And I think with some of the newer insecticides that we've got now, I think it fits the system. 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:57.440 Those materials fit this system, or maybe they help to make this system more more manageable. 00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.599 Um, because I know back then. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:07.519 There were still a lot of growers using, say, like Lores Band for case bear management or case bear control. 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:11.039 And then of course Lores Band is a broad spectrum insecticide. 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:15.279 So it's not just killing the pest, it's killing everything that's out there. 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:25.279 And we've gotten a thankfully, we've gotten growers away from that, away from using those broad spectrum insecticides early in the season, especially. 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:29.759 And now pretty much, you know, Lores Band is I don't think you can use it now. 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:31.599 I think it's not labeled anymore. 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:56.400 Some of the pyrethroids, you know, are broad spectrum and they are still labeled, but growers have

have learned to not use those materials early in the season because it does disrupt all those beneficial insects and predators that you mentioned and parasitoids and things like that that help us with control of these pests. 00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:06.640 And by being able to get rid of those broad spectrum insecticides early in the season, it's allowed us to rely more on them, on those beneficial insects. 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:16.240 And then also the chemistries that we have now for controlling pecan that case bearer are more targeted, I think, and more specific. 00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.960 Could you touch on that for a minute? 00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:32.799 I think that plays back into kind of what you you're saying with the with the timing of and I think that's the key, and it is for so many things in growing pecans, timing is the key to the whole thing. 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:40.400 So could you touch on how those materials, those chemistries that we use now, why timing is so important for that? 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.480 Yeah, that's a great point, Lenny. 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:50.559 Uh I think, yeah, over time I think we are using different chemistries than what we used 10, 15, 20 years ago. 00:23:50.799 --> 00:24:03.920 And like I said, these uh predatory insects, they play a significant role in reducing the pest population, especially on the pecanot cage barrier. 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:13.119 If it is true that we have you know less pressure of pecanut cage barrier because of the predatory bugs, I mean that is significant. 00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:16.559 Beneficial insects are playing a really significant role. 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:30.720 And using some of these broad spectrum insecticides, we use uh large ven or sometimes when you know pyretroid, even sometimes dimolin, you know, dimolin is also a kind of more of a broad spectrum. 00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:39.279 These uh broad spectrum insecticides, when we use, we take out not only the pests, also the beneficial insects. 00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:44.079 And these beneficial insects, you you know, these are kind of our friends. 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:55.039 So if we kind of take out the you know the those beneficial insects, you know, they uh you know there are some other pests, for example, you know, you'll have aphids coming in later on. 00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:05.200 So early on, if you take out this whole beneficial insect population, then your pest population subsequently are going to be worse. 00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:10.799 But fortunately, you know, the some of the new chemistries, you know, our growers they use intrepid. 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:23.359 So the intrepid or intrepid age, this is more specific, you know, those are these are selective to the uh caterpillar pest, and it has uh somewhat longer residual activities. 00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:34.240 Again, the FMC and you know other companies they have this diamides, they had this pentacore, and now they came up with this uh new

branding, Corazin Evo. 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:38.240 So corazin is also a kind of lepidopteran material. 00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:52.480 So these are kind of more selective insecticides, those are highly effective, but only to the caterpillars like pecanutrier or even sharkworm, and they have very minimal effect on the beneficial insects. 00:25:52.720 --> 00:26:00.880 So you kill the insects but you preserve the beneficial insects, you know, you kill the insect pest, but at the same time preserve the beneficial insects. 00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:10.720 So you're basically you know kind of boosting the system uh so that we get maximum press uh suppression using the selective insecticides. 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:27.519 So using these new chemistries, you know, kind of more sustainable way to manage the pest population, where you are encouraging beneficial insects and having much more efficient uh activity on insect pest population. 00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:40.079 Yeah, and I and I just know uh historically, I mean I've seen it just in the time that I've been here, the change and the chemistries that we use and rely more on those beneficial insects early. 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:51.599 I know early on when I first started, and growers were using some of those broad spectrum insecticides early in the season, like we mentioned, the aphid populations would just be through the roof after that. 00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:55.839 And then all season long they're battling aphids. 00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:07.519 Um, but now I don't really see, especially yellow aphid populations, you I just rarely ever see them get to a point that they're they're they're damaging. 00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:23.200 I mean, yeah, you'll see them and you may see some honeydew on the on the leaves, but they don't get to the same levels that they used to when growers were accidentally taking out those uh beneficials trying to control the pests for those broad spectrum insecticides. 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.839 So I think it's it's changed a lot and it's for the for the better for sure. 00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:34.000 Yeah, sometimes we just kind of underestimate the role of these beneficial insects in our cropping system. 00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:41.279 And if you can't, it's very unique and you know, like other nut crop uh tree crop, it's more a stable system. 00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:50.559 So they uh have better success in this perennial tree system, and uh we need to take advantage of the beneficial insects. 00:27:50.880 --> 00:28:06.319 I want your critique of my my approach to to managing uh case bear in the only varieties that I generally spray case bear for are uh pawnee and desirable. 00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:18.720 I spray it on desirable uh for case bearer because you know, desirable, no matter what how great the crop load looks early in the season, they're always going to drop a lot of nuts in June. 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:31.920 And so my thinking there is I just want to be able to preserve you know whatever else I can that Mother Nature doesn't just take by dropping those nuts in June from that natural tendency that they have. 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:43.359 And then Pawnee, I feel like the price for pawnee being higher because it's the first nut that we harvest, um, you can justify the expense of that spray on those. 00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:49.759 But then most of the other varieties, I generally don't worry about spraying, especially in a heavy year. 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:53.920 I think it probably probably benefits you to let them thin some of them. 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:59.519 But most growers like to have, you know, feel like they are in control of that. 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:01.119 So that's understandable. 00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:06.240 But that's what I that's been my approach to it, and it seems to have worked pretty well. 00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:09.359 But just uh what's your thoughts on that? 00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:12.640 And would you have any suggestions to change that in any way? 00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:14.319 No, I think you're right. 00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:20.720 Again, a lot of this uh pest management, what we talk about is kind of related to the price. 00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:22.720 Like you mentioned, you know, pony. 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:27.519 Yeah, you want to save nuts where you get the most you know money out of it. 00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:31.519 And see kind of similar experience, you know, other growers may have. 00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:41.200 And um, I remember one time I met a grower in Cook County, and he said one of his blocks always had higher pressure than other. 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:55.200 I mean, again, if you're a grower and you've been growing that crop and year after year, you have kind of more understanding about the insect pressure and what kind of loss you have from the insect damage. 00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:05.759 And you know, I just don't want to go ahead and say that okay, you need to spray for case barrier all you know on all your blocks and all the varieties. 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:27.599 But again, as a grower, if you're trying to, you know, be judicious and be conscious about you know where you're spending your dollar in terms of input and what kind of return you expect, and I mean these recommendations are going to be vary from grower to grower and variety to variety, even block to block. 00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:35.839 So yeah, I mean, I I don't want to say that you know this is the time to spray for peak and case grader and go ahead and you need to make an application. 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:37.519 No, that's that's not true. 00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:41.440 That's not how pace management or integrated pace management work. 00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.680 I mean, there's uh always an economic component to what we recommend. 00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.319 If it is not economical, don't do it. 00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:52.640 Another thing I want to mention, I think you touched on it a little bit

earlier. 00:30:52.880 --> 00:31:01.519 Uh, because we may have people, you know, a lot of what we're talking about here is for for Georgia, you know, for our case bearer situation here in Georgia. 00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:11.759 But I think out west, like in Texas, let's say, um the case bearer problem is is much worse than it is here. 00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:16.559 And my understanding is that out there you have to spray for them. 00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:20.640 As opposed to here, you kind of have a little more of an option, it seems like. 00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:21.519 Why is that? 00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:22.559 Do you know? 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:28.240 To be honest, I exactly don't know what are the reasons why the pest pressure is higher there. 00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:36.079 But to me, I think it has something to do with the weather and the kind of survival of the overall population. 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:47.920 So, you know, I have seen in the past in the West, in general, if you go to California or even Arizona, you have higher incidence of insect pest versus disease. 00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:56.720 But if you are here in Georgia or in Alabama or you know, this on the southeast, you have higher disease pressure, the insect pressure. 00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:21.359 One of the things, you know, over the years, what I have observed that when you are on the eastern side of the country or kind of southeast, you have a kind of complex and more diverse vegetation, you have more kind of heterogeneous um habitat, and that supports your kind of insect diversity and beneficial insects. 00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:36.880 So, in the past, you know, I have worked on cotton systems in the West, you know, in Texas specifically, you have just cotton patch, you know, miles after miles, and there is hardly anything out there other vegetation. 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:45.359 And pests always have a better chance of surviving and causing the damage in absence of these beneficial insects. 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:53.680 In order to kind of preserve that beneficial insects or support them to kind of encourage them, you need other habitat. 00:32:54.240 --> 00:33:10.400 So that's kind of my feeling that we have more beneficial insects like predators and parasitoids here in the southeast that might help suppressing the even not only case barrier, maybe other populations, other insect populations. 00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:26.799 But in the West, you have very less opportunity for those beneficial insects to kind of perpetuate and kind of augment or you know, uh kind of flourish uh to have a greater impact on the overall insect population. 00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:33.440 So, yeah, uh recently, like I said, I was talking to Kristen Bauer in New Mexico State. 00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:46.559 Uh she has been doing some work on pecanut case barrier, and I learned from her that you know their population is really you know significant and they always pray for pecan nut case barrier. 00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:59.599 And we're you know brainstorming this idea that you know they may have very fewer predators or you know other beneficial insects in the system compared to our southeastern system. 00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:03.039 So that is something we have been thinking to explore. 00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:14.880 Uh and in the past, you know, I have not worked on pecan in the Texas area, but you know, I learned from other people that you know they may have even an extra generation. 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:22.639 So, you know, they have their much warmer climate, they have you know fewer uh rainfall um events. 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:37.280 So all these things may kind of contribute to the higher insect population, kind of lack of beneficial insects and more generation, uh, more opportunity to kind of multiply. 00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:39.599 It makes makes sense. 00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:45.280 And I don't want to try to minimize that it can certainly be an issue here. 00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:58.079 Um, I mean I've seen I've seen a couple of times too where they wiped out a a lot of the crop in in an orchard or two, but uh I would say it's much more rare that that happens here than than you would see it out there. 00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:17.920 Yeah, I think you know, although we blame that you know, our what humid uh climate is not good uh for pecan for you know specifically for scab, but with some rainfall and you know this weather, you know, we have some advantage of having these beneficial insects. 00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:32.960 Even if you think about some other kind of anthropomopogenic fungi, they have a better chance to infect these insects or provide this beneficial service in insect separation than compared to the western states. 00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:40.320 And you know, one good example is this fungi that infect this uh cotton aphid. 00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:46.960 So we grow a lot of cotton here, and you know, our growers they don't even spray for cotton aphid. 00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:52.159 But if you go to west, I mean when I was working in Texas, I mean, cotton aphids, you got to spray. 00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:55.519 I mean, otherwise it's gonna you know eat up that those tips. 00:35:56.079 --> 00:36:03.119 But they don't have the advantage of having any fungus killing their aphids because they are so dry. 00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:07.599 But here in the east, you know, you don't need to spray for cotton aphids. 00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:15.920 I think some of the kind of similar reasoning can be you know extrapolated, you know, or pecanut case bear, other pest management system. 00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:18.079 Yeah, so a little known fact here. 00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:20.880 My my PhD is actually in entomology. 00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:28.719 Yeah, and uh and my uh research for my dissertation was on that that fungus on for cotton. 00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:41.360 And so we uh you know we had different plots and everything, and some some plots we had sprayed

fungicide to eliminate the fungus, yeah, and other plots you know we didn't spray. 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:57.519 And we go out and monitor the aphid populations, and of course, the ones where we sprayed fungicides and eliminated that fungus, the aphid populations exploded, and those that we didn't spray where the fungus was actively working, it was able to cause a crash in the aphid population. 00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:02.880 You know, yeah, so that's all direct direct evidence of that. 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:05.760 So yeah, I didn't know that, Lenny. 00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:11.039 It's kind of interesting that I'm speaking in front of an expert who did all this research. 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:26.800 But I think you know that is a kind of logical explanation that you know this uh humid weather and you know our environment probably helping us in some ways, uh, some of this pest uh separation. 00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:32.480 Yeah, Perva, you know, that that covers a lot on pecan nut case bear. 00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:48.400 And you mentioned, well, you gentlemen are talking about aphids right now and cotton, and but probably our number one pest is uh black pecan aphid in in regards to you know the damage it can do with dropping these leaves. 00:37:48.639 --> 00:38:01.599 It's not something we generally talk about this early, however, what happens when a grower sees adults of black pecan aphid in the orchard early, like in the month of May? 00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:02.320 This can happen. 00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:05.280 Can you help us out with this? 00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:17.360 Yes, I mean you will see a kind of yellow spot here and there, even now, because black pecan aphids like pecanut case barrier, you know, they're specialist insect. 00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:21.599 I mean, they only feed on pecan, they don't have any other hosts to feed on. 00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:36.320 So these black pecan aphids, they are going to be in orchard and probably you know feeding on some leaves, and you'll see this black uh so the yellow spots on the leaves here and there. 00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:44.559 But good thing about this uh system that black pecan aphids they cannot reproduce. 00:38:44.719 --> 00:39:01.519 I mean they can feed a little bit, but uh they cannot really exploit that leaf and uh produce the offspring at this time of the year because this leaf chemistry uh does not support you know their uh biology. 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:24.239 And as a result, although we see black beccarna feeds adults at this time of the year, we do not see any names or the immatures uh to a significant level that would you know cause a lot of yellowing and you know this uh the browning and uh what we see kind of late in the season. 00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:37.039 So, yeah, you'll see black pecan aphids here and there, uh, but you really don't have to worry about black pecan aphids until late in the season, let's say late July, early August. 00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:45.599 So uh I would not worry about black pecan aphids at this time of the year, uh, although you may see a few here and there. 00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:47.039 Don't worry about it. 00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:52.000 Never try to attempt making an application for black pecan aphids. 00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:54.159 I see that a lot. 00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:58.559 You know, I've seen some already this year, you know, spotting up some leaves here and there. 00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:14.639 And and I guess we could mention, I don't think we talked about so the when the black aphid feeds, black pecan aphid feeds, uh, it causes these yellow spots on the leaves, and then if they there gets to be enough of them on there, it causes the leaves to to drop off. 00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:24.719 But you know, like you say, you see them come in this time of year, and most of the time you'll see a little bit of that spotting on those lower leaves, and it's not a big deal. 00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:30.400 I've always ignored that, and like just as you described, they just seem to go away. 00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:35.280 Um, yeah, you'll have a little bit of yellow spotting here and there, but it's not really hurting anything. 00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:51.519 And I think if I understand it right, uh that early population comes in and kind of spots up those leaves a little bit, and don't they reproduce faster on leaves that have already been fed on and have some feeding damage? 00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:52.559 Is there anything to that? 00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:53.360 Am I thinking right? 00:40:53.599 --> 00:41:23.519 Yeah, yeah, it's pretty interesting insect in terms of kind of research standpoint that uh the you know the mother they come and cause this yellowing, and when they cause this yellowing, basically they break down the chlorophyll in the cell, and the the babies you know they can feed better or they can utilize that food source if it is yellow rather than uh you know green. 00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:30.480 So the offspring they feed on this what we call the catabolites of the chlorophyll material. 00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:37.760 So their food is basically degraded chlorophyll rather than like actual you know green portion of the chlorophyll. 00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:43.440 So later in the season, as the leaf chemistry changes, you have more and more population. 00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:52.800 The mother will come and cause this yellowing, and they will lay this, you know, they do not lay eggs that time, they just lay the offspring directly. 00:41:52.960 --> 00:42:04.000 We call nymphs, and then the nymphs will just kind of feed constantly and they will you know get bigger and they will kind of proliferate and cause more yellowing around the leaf. 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:19.360 They're always to me, they're like the most challenging insect to manage because they can depending if the conditions are right, they can come in and those populations can explode really fast, like within a couple of days, it seems like

sometimes. 00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:22.320 And uh that's what makes them so challenging, I think. 00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:25.840 So when so when would you suggest spring? 00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:29.280 Is there like a number of nymphs that you look for? 00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:34.000 If you're just seeing the adults, you know, you can kind of ignore them. 00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:39.840 But if you're seeing nymphs also, so how many nymphs would you consider a threshold or whatever? 00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:48.239 I mean, I have not really seen uh these black pecan aphids um laying nymphs at this time of the year. 00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:53.519 Uh, maybe they just do not reproduce, or you know, the reproduction is very minimal. 00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:02.880 But when late in the season, they would lay you know five, ten names altogether in a cluster and they will kind of start feeding. 00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:14.000 So honestly, I have not seen them laying names at this time of the year, and even if they do, it would be just like maybe one or two, and they would die. 00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:18.480 I mean, they would not be probably able to make the entire life cycle. 00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:35.599 So it's something to do with the leaf chemistry because you know, leaf chemistry, as we know, it changes over time in in pecan leaves, and those you know, phytohormones and kind of other biochemical components kind of change over time. 00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:44.719 So those probably do not support the reproduction or the kind of feeding or survival of the names. 00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:59.760 Uh so yeah, I think it's uh in terms of number, I don't have a specific number in mind, but uh even if you see one or two, it's probably you don't need to worry about it because those names are probably uh less likely. 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:02.239 To complete the generation. 00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:10.719 But later in the season, if you see even four or five memes in the cluster, I think they are going to just expand over time. 00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:11.440 Yeah. 00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:14.639 So in that situation, you need to jump on those pretty quick. 00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:15.360 Yes. 00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:16.159 Yes. 00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:21.679 This topic is really good for scouts and growers who scout. 00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:31.840 You know, what I hear from this early season black pecan aphid uh adult damage, what I hear in a nutshell is reproduction. 00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:37.840 So this time of the season, they're just not the leaf doesn't support the reproduction. 00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:40.480 If they are not reproducing, they cannot build. 00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:44.239 And that uh supports us not worrying about them this time of the year. 00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:51.360 They have to build before they can cause the damage that would subsequently lead to the leaf drop. 00:44:51.679 --> 00:45:00.320 And I think too, y'all, we need to talk about the real more detailed part

of the black pecan management as we get on into the summer. 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:10.000 We could do one where we hit more details on it with the insecticides and you know the importance of rotation, what makes this pest so difficult to manage. 00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:10.960 Yeah. 00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:18.159 There's one more thing I'd like to touch on while we got a perva here because uh I have had calls on this this this week. 00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:28.480 You know, a perva, there's another pest out there that we don't see a lot, but we see evidence of it in especially older orchards. 00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:37.280 And I think kind of we're starting to right now is kind of the we're hitting the season where they're kind of their activity is kind of at its peak. 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:46.480 Um and so you know, you go in a lot of these older orchards and you see the tops of these trees kind of dying back or trees kind of getting weak. 00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:55.280 You see a lot of crown gall around the base of these trees and a lot of those older orchards like that, uh, when you start seeing that. 00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:59.119 Sometimes if it's a real sandy soil, you know, it might be nematodes or something like that. 00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:04.880 But I think more often in these older orchards, a lot of times it's prionis root bore. 00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:05.440 Yeah. 00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:12.719 And so how would growers that are seeing something like that in their orchard, what's what's the best course of action on that? 00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:30.559 Because that's a that's an insect that, you know, it's a big beetle, the larvae are in there tunneling in the root systems for years, you know, destroying those root systems, and the tree kind of gets to a point where the tree can't support them, and that's when you start to see that decline because the root system is being destroyed. 00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:39.360 But for a pest like that, that's kind of out of sight, hard to get to, I mean, what are the options for dealing with that? 00:46:39.760 --> 00:47:17.840 Yeah, I think, you know, like we said, black pecan aphid is probably the most challenging in, you know, pecan, but that is on the kind of above ground, and this insect is kind of underground, and we don't see and you know, we don't think about this insect, and it it can cause really significant damage to this root system of the older trees, and we don't even know like if they cause any damage to the root system of young trees, because sometimes you know we have the young trees planted in between the older uh trees, and these beetles are kind of underground. 00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:20.239 And do they feed on these young trees or not? 00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:27.119 I mean, I think we don't have that evidence that uh I saw actually I saw some this week. 00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:41.599 You know, they had a big old tree there that was dying from them, and they they cut that tree down and they planted a young tree on each side of that stump, and they noticed that one of those young trees just wasn't growing and it was starting to die back. 00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:56.480 So they dug that up, and I can send you the pictures of this, but um the root, the tap root of that young tree had been fed on and and just tunneled out by by the wow by RM. 00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:01.360 Again, and this is something you know out of sight, out of mind, that's the thing. 00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:14.000 Uh but uh the good thing, you know, from the research perspective, we are really um starting to work on several aspects for management of prionis. 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:18.559 Uh the traditional approach is we do the trapping. 00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:25.599 We have this uh black panel trap, we have the pheromone lures, we put them out, we capture a lot of beetles. 00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:29.119 But these beetles, they are actually male beetles. 00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:36.960 You know, males are not responsible for, I mean, they are responsible for mating, but the females are the ones going to lay egg. 00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:46.880 And even though you can capture you know 500 beetles in an orchard, that may not be any significant to reduce the population. 00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:49.920 And uh that's the challenge. 00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:58.559 If you cannot control the female beetles, you know, which are already matted with male, then the population is not gonna go down. 00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:03.840 Uh so we need to kind of target those uh female beetles if we can. 00:49:04.159 --> 00:49:21.760 And one of the ways you know it used to be managed using lore spend on the you know herbicide strip or around the base of the tree, and when these beetles come out of the root zone, you know, they come in contact with the insecticides and they they die. 00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:32.400 But the absence of lars bend or any of those chemistries uh you know kind of limiting our ability to um control this pest. 00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:34.079 There's some hope. 00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:39.599 Uh this year, actually, as we speak, uh we put out a trial uh in Albany. 00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:41.599 This is all orchards. 00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:43.119 We have this product. 00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:48.800 I mean, this is a pheromone, but there's an idea called metting disruption. 00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:54.480 Uh, and this has been tested and used, implemented in other insect-based systems. 00:49:54.800 --> 00:50:02.719 Even our peconut case barrier, you know, out in West, Christian Bauer is doing some of this mating disruption uh study. 00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:12.719 The idea is uh you know, in insect community or insect species, the male and female uh you know they communicate using this pheromone. 00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:18.559 So female release pheromone, then male will find them and they will mate. 00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:24.880 So this males they need this, you know, chemical cues coming out

of the female. 00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:33.840 Uh but what happens is when you put a lot of this same chemical, the same pheromone, you create a kind of cloud. 00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:46.079 And if you kind of create a cloud, like you don't see, you have low visibility in this cloud of pheromones, the males they do not find the female, they are kind of confused. 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:50.400 So that's the way you disrupt the mating process. 00:50:50.719 --> 00:51:05.360 And when you disrupt the mating, that means you know, insects would not have eggs to lay, and that's the way you know people have had success in other crop systems, for example, apple pears and things like that, coddling moth. 00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:12.320 So this is a proven system uh you can use to control insects without using chemicals. 00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:16.559 So this is a technique we are trying to use for prionis. 00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:19.760 So we just collaborated with a company. 00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:28.800 Some of these pheromone strips came from Japan, and we're we actually put out a lot of these uh pheromone strips in this orchard. 00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:38.960 And our hope is that uh you know these males are gonna be confused and they won't be able to find find female and disrupt the mating process. 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:46.400 I mean, we are not gonna see the immediate effect because this is like a three, four-year kind of life cycle for this insects. 00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:52.880 So we are not gonna see this immediate you know, uh lower population or so forth. 00:51:53.039 --> 00:52:01.599 But if we do this uh you know for next three, four years, we should see some significant reduction in population. 00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:07.360 And if it works, I mean this could be another tool to manage prioness. 00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:27.360 And in the meantime, we are also looking at some uh uh other chemistries, for example, LD carp, which um you know the Temic they used in a row crop, so it is kind of a good nematicide and also has kind of longer persistence in the soil. 00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:29.679 So this could be another alternative. 00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:32.079 We don't have any kind of label product yet. 00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:43.440 So that is something I've been exploring with other uh manufacturers that can we use other chemistries which are long-lasting on the soil as an alternative to large vent. 00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:44.559 Let me ask you this. 00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:56.079 I mean, I see like like for other like say turf crops or something where you have a lot of the beel bar that feed and damage damage those. 00:52:56.320 --> 00:53:04.400 I think they use it a midacle, is it a midocloper that they use a lot of, or I mean what do they use in those crops? 00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:07.440 And would that do anything for for this? 00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:14.159 If you think about you know the pecan root system versus tarf, you know, our root system is much deeper. 00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:26.559 So you know, in tarf you have like this heavy irrigation with the kind of chemistry, so it just kind of soaks down the root, and you have um you know better success in controlling the insect. 00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:55.360 But in pecan root system, you have roots are much deeper, and you really kind of know where to soak it up with some insecticides, and roots are much spread out and kind of deeper down, so that may be a reason that we may not be able to just kind of copy what they do in tarp, but but there are probably some in opportunity to look at some chemistries which may have impact on kind of root system and root feeding insects. 00:53:55.599 --> 00:54:05.760 Uh, I have not looked at it, but I think that is another um good opportunity to look some of the chemistries that do well on the root-feeding insects. 00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:07.280 Uh great. 00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:09.920 Yeah, that's exciting about the mating disruption. 00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:13.440 I hope that's because having a non-chemical option would be great. 00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:14.159 Absolutely. 00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:24.239 Yeah, no, I we'll we'll talk uh in our future episodes, uh, you know, some of this metting disruption work we have been doing on uh hickory sharkworm. 00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:34.639 So I think you know this is another tool in our toolbox to manage insect pests and it has some kind of unique opportunities rather than applying insecticides. 00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:42.559 You can have this metting disruption product that has kind of longer you know residual activities. 00:54:42.639 --> 00:55:03.519 For example, if you put this out, they may be diffusing this chemical over three months of period, and you have a really you know uh longer period uh to control that insects rather than if you apply an insecticide today, if it rained out, you might have to kind of go back next day to reapply. 00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:11.840 So another thing maybe we can just mention a little bit about sting bugs. 00:55:12.320 --> 00:55:12.800 Thank you. 00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:36.719 You know, share with the growers that if they're seeing sting bugs in the past, that is something they can start to monitor and kind of be more vigilant about it. 00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:43.440 I think I think I would hold that to another one because you know you talked about that at our county meetings, what you're doing with those traps. 00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:50.000 So that would be uh great when we come back with you, you know, in a mid-season kind of thing. 00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:50.639 Yeah. 00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:55.199 A purpose so far, Lenny and I have done about one a week to get it kicked off. 00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:58.079 And uh so you're helping continue that. 00:55:58.480 --> 00:56:12.159 Well, a purpose, I want to just thank you for being on with us today and uh sharing this at least early season insect perspective for this in a nutshell, the PCAM podcast. 00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:16.400 And I look forward to having you on again. 00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:19.360 You have other insects you can cover. 00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:24.000 So, gentlemen, it's been good for episode number four. 00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:28.239 So look forward to being back on again and seeing what we got next. 00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:30.559 It's been a pleasure. 00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:34.880 Hopefully, uh, some of this information will be helpful to our listeners. 00:56:35.840 --> 00:56:36.400 Thank you a lot. 00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:40.880 And then we can get tired of hearing just me and Andrew's uh listen to it. 00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:43.039 Thank you all for listening. 00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:45.119 Stay tuned for the next episode. 00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:52.079 You can get more information on the University of Georgia PCM blog in a nutshell, the PCM podcast.