บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Unapologetically ADHD with Nikki Kinzer and Pete Wright

--> 00:01:53.840 partner of mine for so long. Try AG1 and get 34 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:57.310 a free bottle of vitamin D3K2. and five free AG1 35 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:02.359 travel packs with your first purchase at drinkag1. com. That's a 36 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:06.959 $ 48 value for free if you go to drinkag1. com. Check 37 00:02:06.980 --> 00:02:10.979 it out. This episode is also brought to you by Sansama. 38 00:02:11.580 --> 00:02:13.360 As someone who's always trying to stay on top of 39 00:02:13.379 --> 00:02:15.919 my day, I found that Sansama makes a huge difference 40 00:02:15.979 --> 00:02:18.400 in how I manage my workload. It's more than just 41 00:02:18.460 --> 00:02:20.860 a to-do list. It's like having a personal assistant that 42 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.419 helps me plan my day in a way that's actually sustainable. 43 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:25.939 And that last piece is what's so crucial for me 44 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:28.580 because it's so easy for me to overschedule. When I'm 45 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:31.050 planning with Samsama each morning, it prompts me to make 46 00:02:31.110 --> 00:02:33.509 sure I'm focused on tasks that matter the most and 47 00:02:33.710 --> 00:02:36.069 even alerts me when I'm overloading myself with too much work. 48 00:02:37.090 --> 00:02:39.270 I think my favorite part of Samsama is its integration 49 00:02:39.289 --> 00:02:41.610 with my calendar. Because while it's great to plan my 50 00:02:41.650 --> 00:02:43.949 day with a to-do list, it isn't nearly as valuable 51 00:02:44.050 --> 00:02:46.409 if I'm not doing it with my calendar. And I 52 00:02:46.449 --> 00:02:48.310 love the fact that it has a built-in feature called 53 00:02:48.469 --> 00:02:51.439 the Shutdown Ritual. because it's so important for me that 54 00:02:51.460 --> 00:02:53.539 I'm making sure that I'm keeping my work-life balance in 55 00:02:53.580 --> 00:02:56.620 mind when I'm doing that planning in the morning. Give 56 00:02:56.659 --> 00:02:59.219 Sansama a try today. It's free to start, and you 57 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.150 don't even need to enter a credit card to get going. 58 00:03:01.889 --> 00:03:04.210 Head over to sansama.com and see how it can help 59 00:03:04.229 --> 00:03:07.210 you build a more productive and balanced workday. Or you 60 00:03:07.229 --> 00:03:10.430 can just click the link in the show notes. And 61 00:03:10.530 --> 00:03:12.289 one more thing before we get started, I just wanted 62 00:03:12.310 --> 00:03:14.719 to let everyone know that I will be presenting at 63 00:03:14.780 --> 00:03:18.939 the 2024 Annual International Conference on ADHD this November in Anaheim, California. 64 00:03:19.409 --> 00:03:22.289 I'll be presenting on executive function in AI. You may 65 00:03:22.330 --> 00:03:24.210 have noticed I recently had an episode about that, so 66 00:03:24.310 --> 00:03:27.199 consider that a preview. If the conference sounds interesting, go 67 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:31.780 check out theadhdconference.org to get your tickets. All right, keep 68 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:35.240 on listening to find out how you can be unapologetically ADHD. 69 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:45.060 Pete Wright and Nikki Kinsey are here from Taking Control, 70 00:03:45.090 --> 00:03:46.490 the ADHD podcast. 71 00:03:46.689 --> 00:03:47.810 Thank you for having us. 72 00:03:47.870 --> 00:03:49.210 Yeah, we're really glad to be here. 73 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:51.060 And we're also going to be talking about their new book, 74 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:52.699 Unapologetically ADHD. 75 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:55.430 We've spent almost a year working on this, and it 76 00:03:55.490 --> 00:03:58.509 is a step-by-step framework for everyday planning on your terms. 77 00:03:59.590 --> 00:03:59.909 Awesome. 78 00:03:59.969 --> 00:04:00.969 Yeah. 79 00:04:01.389 --> 00:04:02.710 And that was actually one of my first things. I 80 00:04:02.710 --> 00:04:04.289 was wondering how long you guys have been working on 81 00:04:04.310 --> 00:04:05.750 the book. So it's been about a year now. 82 00:04:06.050 --> 00:04:10.110 Almost exactly a year from this moment in time. So 83 00:04:10.250 --> 00:04:12.650 it's been a year in progress because we started writing, 84 00:04:12.669 --> 00:04:15.469 I would say, more like in October. Pete, you didn't 85 00:04:15.490 --> 00:04:17.970 really start writing until December. Right. 86 00:04:18.350 --> 00:04:21.449 I participate in NaNoWriMo every year, National Novel Writing Month 87 00:04:21.490 --> 00:04:23.680 in November. And so it was part of the deal. 88 00:04:23.980 --> 00:04:26.240 I couldn't turn my attention to this until December 1st. 89 00:04:26.339 --> 00:04:28.720 But from there on, it was a marathon to get 90 00:04:28.779 --> 00:04:29.000 it done. 91 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:29.660 Awesome. 92 00:04:29.740 --> 00:04:32.120 Yeah. Because, I mean, a year ago, I had no 93 00:04:32.220 --> 00:04:34.959 idea that we would even be having this conversation. So 94 00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:37.420 it's pretty surreal that we're here and talking about it. 95 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:39.379 It's in our hands and pretty exciting. 96 00:04:39.769 --> 00:04:41.889 But I imagine it did help that you have the 97 00:04:41.910 --> 00:04:44.350 two of you working together on it and having that 98 00:04:44.589 --> 00:04:47.660 built-in accountability there. Because I know if I was just like, oh, 99 00:04:47.699 --> 00:04:49.220 I'm going to do this, I'd need to build in 100 00:04:49.259 --> 00:04:51.000 those systems. But you kind of have a natural system 101 00:04:51.019 --> 00:04:51.459 built in here. 102 00:04:51.860 --> 00:04:52.220 We do. 103 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:53.420 We work well together. 104 00:04:53.740 --> 00:04:55.800 And one of the things that we really wanted for 105 00:04:55.819 --> 00:04:59.720 the book is it to look like our podcast. And 106 00:04:59.899 --> 00:05:03.360 so it came pretty easy to kind of figure out, OK, 107

00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:05.790 what part am I going to have, which is more 108 00:05:05.829 --> 00:05:09.110 of the ADHD coach. This is the how to kind 109 00:05:09.149 --> 00:05:12.420 of method that the framework is. And then Pete being 110 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:15.420 able to put in what we call his essays with 111 00:05:15.500 --> 00:05:19.060 his own point of view from having ADHD, his experiences 112 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:22.850 with these concepts. And so it mirrors our podcast, which 113 00:05:22.889 --> 00:05:25.910 was really important to us because that's our personality. We 114 00:05:25.949 --> 00:05:29.889 wanted our personality in the book. And his, to be honest, William, 115 00:05:30.230 --> 00:05:32.790 he's a lot better writer than I am. He's a 116 00:05:32.810 --> 00:05:35.160 lot more creative and his stories are good. 117 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:37.120 And so it puts some interest in the book. 118 00:05:37.529 --> 00:05:40.040 I definitely felt both of your personalities in the book. 119 00:05:40.209 --> 00:05:42.339 I'd gotten the advanced copy and I just put it 120 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:44.759 in something that would automatically read it for me. So 121 00:05:44.779 --> 00:05:45.879 it kind of had like a little bit of a 122 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:49.220 robot voice, but it worked out. I could still like 123 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:51.720 hear both of your personalities in the book, even with 124 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:53.379 not having your voice in the book. 125 00:05:53.579 --> 00:05:55.060 Oh, that's so good to hear. 126 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:57.560 I love it. Even the robot knows who we are. 127 00:05:57.810 --> 00:05:58.290 Yeah. 128 00:05:59.730 --> 00:06:02.490 And yeah, you definitely have like with Pete's section talking 129 00:06:02.529 --> 00:06:05.889 to Jordan, our protagonist of the book, as it were. Yes. 130 00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:08.810 I was like listening. I'm like, did I remember the 131 00:06:08.829 --> 00:06:09.250 name right? 132 00:06:09.410 --> 00:06:11.370 Did he change the name? That would be really amusing 133 00:06:11.410 --> 00:06:13.050 if he just switched names throughout the entire book. 134 00:06:13.069 --> 00:06:13.389 Right. 135 00:06:14.509 --> 00:06:15.610 It's a different person each time. 136 00:06:15.829 --> 00:06:18.069 I'm just going to tell you when the first draft 137 00:06:18.110 --> 00:06:21.209 of the book, our protagonist, Jordan, was not Jordan. It 138 00:06:21.250 --> 00:06:24.110 was something else. And we wrote the whole book. And 139 00:06:24.149 --> 00:06:27.290 then our editor came back and said, you know, we 140 00:06:27.310 --> 00:06:30.069 need to have someone in here who is not gendered. 141 00:06:30.129 --> 00:06:32.889 If we really want like the goal of this character 142 00:06:32.910 --> 00:06:36.980 is so that when I'm talking to the character. I'm 143 00:06:37.019 --> 00:06:39.120 talking to you, reader. So you have to be able 144 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:42.259

to see yourself. And so we went with Jordan as 145 00:06:42.339 --> 00:06:45.519 a name that was not explicitly gendered. And that was 146 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:48.230 really important. And it was such a good call. I 147 00:06:48.290 --> 00:06:51.129 was lazy in my initial draft, but that was my 148 00:06:51.170 --> 00:06:54.089 greatest fear was that we missed one somewhere. 149 00:06:54.430 --> 00:06:54.970 Oh, right. 150 00:06:55.329 --> 00:06:55.589 Yeah. 151 00:06:56.069 --> 00:06:59.110 We did a thorough find and replace. So I'm pretty 152 00:06:59.149 --> 00:07:01.189 sure we caught it. Enough eyes were on it that 153 00:07:01.329 --> 00:07:02.529 I'm pretty sure we got it. Yeah. 154 00:07:02.550 --> 00:07:06.389 And there were just some like Great metaphors and ideas 155 00:07:06.430 --> 00:07:08.129 in the book that just really clicked with me. You 156 00:07:08.420 --> 00:07:10.379 were talking about FOMO in this one part, but you're like, 157 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:12.800 and then there's this other thing, the FOBO, the fear 158 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:15.160 of better options. And I was just like, I have 159 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:17.699 had buy socks on my to-do list for two months 160 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:19.490 because I've been looking for the best socks. This is 161 00:07:19.550 --> 00:07:20.610 exactly what's going on here. 162 00:07:20.829 --> 00:07:21.850 Right? Yeah. 163 00:07:21.889 --> 00:07:24.329 For sure. Yeah, there are no best socks, it turns out. 164 00:07:24.550 --> 00:07:25.850 It's one of those things I've always found is like, 165 00:07:26.389 --> 00:07:29.660 There aren't any right options, but there are certainly wrong options. 166 00:07:29.980 --> 00:07:30.139 Right. 167 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.019 And it's like, OK, I just need to get over 168 00:07:32.060 --> 00:07:33.920 that first hurdle and then I can pull the trigger 169 00:07:33.980 --> 00:07:36.579 and do what I need to for that research portion. 170 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:39.240 Because it's so easy to get sucked into for sure. 171 00:07:39.819 --> 00:07:41.300 It really is. And it's the hardest thing. I mean, 172 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:44.050 in terms of the ADHD note for me, it's just 173 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:47.069 the act is not finding the best options. We have 174 00:07:47.089 --> 00:07:49.629 to stop trying to find the best options. And our 175 00:07:49.810 --> 00:07:52.750 only focus is eliminating, as you say, the worst options. Right. 176 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:56.279 Because once we eliminate the worst options, we can't lose, really. 177 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:59.420 We can't lose because they're all good options as long 178 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:02.720 as we eliminate the worst options. And wrestling that sort 179 00:08:02.740 --> 00:08:07.220 of act of critical thinking, that discernment, is the ADHD task. 180 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:09.939 That's the muscle memory you have to develop with a 181 00:08:10.060 --> 00:08:13.920 practice

because context is everything. You might figure out the 182 00:08:13.939 --> 00:08:16.740 sock problem and the next day you have to buy shirts. Yeah. 183 00:08:16.779 --> 00:08:18.860 Also, this week I bought new headphones and I did 184 00:08:18.899 --> 00:08:20.939 that in 30 minutes. I was like, these are the 185 00:08:20.980 --> 00:08:21.899 ones I want. There we go. 186 00:08:22.019 --> 00:08:22.199 Done. 187 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:25.500 I was like, why are socks so much harder than headphones? 188 00:08:25.819 --> 00:08:29.279 Right? Yeah. Man, weird opinions held strongly. That's true. 189 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:30.899 There was so much in the book that I was 190 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:34.299 just like, oh, this is perfect for talking to ADHD. 191 00:08:34.700 --> 00:08:38.500 And both from your different perspectives, because there's definitely this 192 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:41.379 aspect of people with ADHD being like, I only want 193 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:44.539 to hear from other people with ADHD. But we also 194 00:08:44.679 --> 00:08:47.529 need to have that structure to like build off of 195 00:08:47.710 --> 00:08:50.549 that really helps you be like, okay, here's how these 196 00:08:50.590 --> 00:08:53.919 ideas work. And here is how we can actually apply 197 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:55.340 those within our ADHD. 198 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:57.299 And that's really the key, right? 199 00:08:57.519 --> 00:09:01.799 Is to embrace the ADHD partner with it and not 200 00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:04.940 pretend like it doesn't exist. And that's what I've seen 201 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:07.350 so many times with clients and people that I've worked 202 00:09:07.399 --> 00:09:10.250 with is that they want to ignore it or not 203 00:09:10.309 --> 00:09:13.470 even intentionally. It's just, there's all these shoulds in the 204 00:09:13.509 --> 00:09:18.129 world and these high expectations. And when you're not accounting 205 00:09:18.169 --> 00:09:21.129 for your ADHD, when you're planning your day, It's going 206 00:09:21.149 --> 00:09:24.169 to be really unrealistic. And then that shame starts to 207 00:09:24.210 --> 00:09:26.549 just kick in day after day. And that's what we're 208 00:09:26.590 --> 00:09:29.129 hoping to start to really break and have a different 209 00:09:29.149 --> 00:09:30.629 mindset around planning. 210 00:09:30.990 --> 00:09:33.990 And it's a funny shame, right? Because sometimes the shame 211 00:09:34.049 --> 00:09:36.230 is the shame that I'm living with ADHD and I'm 212 00:09:36.289 --> 00:09:38.570 incapable of dealing with the task in front of me. 213 00:09:38.950 --> 00:09:42.669 And sometimes the shame is I can't mask hard enough 214 00:09:43.029 --> 00:09:46.230 to truly believe that I don't have ADHD right now 215 00:09:46.389 --> 00:09:50.340 in this context. I am pretending. And I can't fool myself. 216 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:54.879 And sometimes we can. Sometimes, depending on your flavor of ADHD, 217 00:09:55.179 --> 00:09:57.730 you can pretend you don't have ADHD for a little while. 218 00:09:58.090 --> 00:10:01.039 And then it makes you question the world And suddenly 219 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:03.820 you're faced with the things that are usually challenging to you. 220 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:06.340 And you realize that your mask is not good enough. 221 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:10.029 It's not strong enough. It's not thick enough, whatever it is. So, 222 00:10:10.129 --> 00:10:12.629 so much of our kind of message is like, what 223 00:10:12.690 --> 00:10:16.870 happens when we stop pretending in any context that we 224 00:10:16.909 --> 00:10:18.980 don't have it? What happens if we... We don't have 225 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:20.820 to love it or hate it or whatever. It doesn't 226 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:23.379 have to be a superpower or a boat anchor. It 227 00:10:23.460 --> 00:10:25.600 just is. Now, what do we do next? 228 00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:26.980 One of the notes I have here is just I 229 00:10:27.019 --> 00:10:30.899 love this focus on that instead of trying to fix 230 00:10:30.940 --> 00:10:33.600 yourself into this mold of how you want to work 231 00:10:33.620 --> 00:10:36.179 with your ADHD, you just being like, OK, I have ADHD. 232 00:10:36.340 --> 00:10:38.539 How am I going to work with it in this context? 233 00:10:38.580 --> 00:10:40.139 How am I going to not change what I'm doing, 234 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:41.440 just accommodate what I'm doing? 235 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:44.500 And I think also not to assume that if there's 236 00:10:44.539 --> 00:10:47.039 another way is the right way and what you're doing 237 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:49.539 is the wrong way. I have just a quick little 238 00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:52.250 side note story, something that happened with my daughter. So 239 00:10:52.809 --> 00:10:58.750 she has ADHD and she, part of her age, her hyperactivity. 240 00:10:57.970 --> 00:11:00.009 Is that she talks fast and she talks loud. 241 00:11:00.509 --> 00:11:03.179 And there was a moment in the kitchen, I was 242 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:05.960 probably cooking something and she's talking to me. And I 243 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:07.899 remember I looked at her and I said, can you 244 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:09.620 just quiet it down just a little bit? 245 00:11:10.179 --> 00:11:12.179 And she looked at me and she's like, well, can 246 00:11:12.220 --> 00:11:17.370 you speak louder? And I'm like, Point taken. Like, I 247 00:11:17.409 --> 00:11:20.450 get that. Thank you. You know, I get that. Like, 248 00:11:20.929 --> 00:11:23.090 my way wasn't necessarily the right way. 249 00:11:23.149 --> 00:11:26.610 And her way asking me to talk louder was in 250 00:11:26.690 --> 00:11:28.889 her right to do so. Right. So I think it's 251 00:11:28.950 --> 00:11:31.909 also kind of not assuming that just because somebody else 252 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:34.509 has a different way of doing something, that they're the 253

00:11:34.549 --> 00:11:38.240 right way. Like, we can advocate for ourselves. We can say, no, 254 00:11:38.259 --> 00:11:39.600 this is how we like to work. 255 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:41.840 We need extra time for this or whatever. 256 00:11:42.269 --> 00:11:44.649 We really don't know how long something's going to take 257 00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:47.779 until we're in the project. So, you know, let me 258 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:51.179 have some time to get into the project and then 259 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:53.759 I'll let you know, you know, like it's sort of 260 00:11:53.860 --> 00:11:57.720 changing the expectations of what others are expecting from you 261 00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:02.330 by letting them know without even labeling ADHD. But this 262 00:12:02.389 --> 00:12:04.289 is just how I like to work. This is how 263 00:12:04.309 --> 00:12:05.230 I do things. 264 00:12:05.710 --> 00:12:07.889 Absolutely. Because I mean, that's one of the biggest lessons 265 00:12:07.929 --> 00:12:10.610 I've always been keep coming back to is like, I can't. 266 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:14.919 work against my brain. That just isn't fundamentally something that's going. 267 00:12:14.730 --> 00:12:15.539 To be effective. 268 00:12:16.070 --> 00:12:16.350 Right. 269 00:12:16.789 --> 00:12:18.049 And nor should you have to. 270 00:12:18.409 --> 00:12:20.610 And yet it is something that is such a hard 271 00:12:20.669 --> 00:12:23.590 lesson to internalize as well, because we have all these, 272 00:12:23.830 --> 00:12:27.110 if I go on to read productivity blogs, I'm like, oh, 273 00:12:27.570 --> 00:12:30.389 that person's saying this is how this works. I should 274 00:12:30.450 --> 00:12:32.950 be able to do that. And maybe even I've been 275 00:12:32.990 --> 00:12:34.629 able to do that once or twice, but I don't 276 00:12:34.669 --> 00:12:35.750 know why I can't do it now. 277 00:12:35.769 --> 00:12:36.820 Oh, totally. 278 00:12:36.899 --> 00:12:40.340 Totally. This is the peril of intermittent reinforcement. It's the 279 00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:44.860 worst with ADHD because Monday, you're amazing. Monday, you can 280 00:12:44.899 --> 00:12:47.159 do anything. Monday, you can put your mind to planning 281 00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:50.070 and you're hyper-focusing on just the right stuff and you 282 00:12:50.090 --> 00:12:52.409 know when to turn it off and context switching is great. 283 00:12:52.730 --> 00:12:55.269 And Tuesday is a disaster. You don't know how to 284 00:12:55.309 --> 00:12:57.769 get out of bed, right? Let alone see what's next. 285 00:12:57.909 --> 00:13:01.590 And that intermittent reinforcement causes you to believe you're capable 286 00:13:01.629 --> 00:13:06.799 of incredible things and be just devastated immediately. when reality 287 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:09.340 creeps in and you don't have a system that's resilient 288 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:12.100 to the kinds of feelings that have ag and to 289 00:13:12.139 --> 00:13:16.539 your point

traditional productivity systems are created by people who 290 00:13:16.779 --> 00:13:19.470 don't necessarily live with adhd in one shape or form 291 00:13:19.490 --> 00:13:22.230 or another and don't acknowledge it so we spend our 292 00:13:22.269 --> 00:13:26.029 lives as productivity nerds searching for systems and mining through 293 00:13:26.090 --> 00:13:28.990 systems that were not created for us and are making 294 00:13:29.029 --> 00:13:33.340 us pretend again that we don't have adhd so for me, 295 00:13:33.379 --> 00:13:36.679 that looks like buying years worth of Franklin planning systems 296 00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:39.799 before Covey even bought them and having them on my 297 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:44.669 binder and having them meticulously labeled, but still forgetting appointments, right? 298 00:13:44.789 --> 00:13:47.769 Like still being on the edge of constantly on the 299 00:13:47.909 --> 00:13:51.789 edge of whatever was coming next, because my focus was 300 00:13:51.909 --> 00:13:55.070 on setting up the systems because I love systems, not 301 00:13:55.409 --> 00:13:58.970 using the systems. There was no gateway through my ADHD 302 00:13:58.990 --> 00:13:59.470 to do that. 303 00:14:00.070 --> 00:14:02.250 I know exactly what you mean too about like, Setting 304 00:14:02.309 --> 00:14:03.769 up the system is the best part. 305 00:14:04.309 --> 00:14:05.429 It's the dopest. 306 00:14:05.690 --> 00:14:05.950 Yes. 307 00:14:07.190 --> 00:14:09.850 I remember one job where I spent days and days 308 00:14:09.909 --> 00:14:13.570 building this really complicated spreadsheet system to track these things 309 00:14:13.590 --> 00:14:15.669 we were doing. And I was like, the person sent it, 310 00:14:15.669 --> 00:14:18.220 they're like, this is the best thing I've ever seen. 311 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:19.379 And I never used it. 312 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:19.879 Yeah. 313 00:14:20.019 --> 00:14:20.179 Yep. 314 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:21.639 Yeah, I got to the end of the season and 315 00:14:21.659 --> 00:14:23.679 I was like, huh, that would have been really useful 316 00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:24.379 to actually use. 317 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:27.519 Shoot. Think of what we could have done. 318 00:14:27.539 --> 00:14:29.340 Next time. 319 00:14:29.669 --> 00:14:31.429 And I think this is also like a great point 320 00:14:31.450 --> 00:14:33.389 to pivot into. One of the big themes of the 321 00:14:33.429 --> 00:14:35.419 book is how to set up your own systems that 322 00:14:35.460 --> 00:14:37.919 work with your ADHD. I think one of the chapters 323 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:40.159 I really loved listening to was one on the system 324 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:43.039 fragility and like how to be like, hey, your systems 325 00:14:43.220 --> 00:14:45.320 are going to have days when they fail, but you're 326 00:14:45.340 --> 00:14:47.720 at ways to not have that be the end of 327 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:48.200 the system. 328 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.519 Yeah, well, I mean, my entire consideration on system fragility 329 00:14:52.580 --> 00:14:54.500 is I have to look at something that's not related 330 00:14:54.570 --> 00:14:56.570 to how I work every day in order to really 331 00:14:56.590 --> 00:14:59.269 understand where systems break down. And so I wrote this 332 00:14:59.289 --> 00:15:02.789 whole essay on industrial supply chains. 333 00:15:03.250 --> 00:15:05.740 Because why not, right? Yeah, of course. 334 00:15:05.779 --> 00:15:07.899 Like, why not? I want to try to, it's about 335 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:10.139 a laptop and it comes from China. And what are 336 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:12.940 all the systems that have to work seamlessly together in 337 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.419 order to make it to my doorstep? You know, once 338 00:15:16.460 --> 00:15:21.919 we understand writ large what system fragility means and how professionals, 339 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:25.340 risk analysts look at system fragility, it actually makes it 340 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:26.820 a little bit easier for me to look at my 341 00:15:26.980 --> 00:15:31.700 own simple systems on my computer and off and look 342 00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:36.259 at how my schedule, my contact list, my calendar, my 343 00:15:36.299 --> 00:15:39.220 to-do list, all of my systems that fall together in 344 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:44.600 this workbox actually do work together. And when they break, 345 00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:47.500 I have a better understanding of how to come back 346 00:15:47.590 --> 00:15:50.950 into the system and rebuild them quickly and easily. So 347 00:15:50.990 --> 00:15:53.809 I don't feel like I'm starting over anymore. That's what 348 00:15:53.870 --> 00:15:57.019 we mean by resilience in our systems. And That's the 349 00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:00.340 going through the interrogation process of the systems, of the 350 00:16:00.379 --> 00:16:02.840 tools that I'm using and how I use them is 351 00:16:03.220 --> 00:16:05.919 one kind of fun. Right. It's easy for someone with 352 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:08.039 my flavor of ADHD, like we were talking about, like 353 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:10.799 setting up systems is great. But once I documented, I 354 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:13.559 have a checklist on my wall here that I can 355 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.460 see the tools that I use and I can look at, OK, 356 00:16:16.700 --> 00:16:19.320 my schedule is a mess today. I know what part 357 00:16:19.340 --> 00:16:21.360 of my system I need to interrogate to get things 358 00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:23.700 back on track and make sure I'm delivering to the 359 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:27.879 people at the time necessary. For me, that metaphor of 360 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:31.679 large scale industrial supply chain helps me understand my role 361 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:33.259 in the world a little bit better. So I hope 362 00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:34.279 that essay resonates. 363 00:16:34.580 --> 00:16:37.360 I think

the message that both of us were really 364 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:41.820 trying to let readers understand is that just because you've 365 00:16:41.860 --> 00:16:45.120 been inconsistent or haven't seen something for a while, it 366 00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:47.679 doesn't mean automatically that it's broken. 367 00:16:48.220 --> 00:16:49.940 So to pause. 368 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:53.299 For a moment before going and grabbing that next planner 369 00:16:53.379 --> 00:16:56.070 or that new system that you just heard about on 370 00:16:56.090 --> 00:16:58.090 a podcast that somebody's using, right? 371 00:16:58.450 --> 00:17:00.529 Because sometimes that will take. 372 00:17:00.350 --> 00:17:03.529 More work and more time than it would for you 373 00:17:03.590 --> 00:17:06.910 to actually go in and update what you currently have. 374 00:17:07.250 --> 00:17:10.339 But you have to get past that fear of what 375 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.759 you're going to find out. You have to like work 376 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.059 through the shame of I haven't looked at it for 377 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:19.099 a while, not blame yourself. for it breaking, you know, 378 00:17:19.180 --> 00:17:21.900 and really kind of get past some of those emotional pieces. 379 00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:23.049 But yet at the. 380 00:17:23.009 --> 00:17:25.309 Same time, if you go back into it and you're like, no, 381 00:17:25.369 --> 00:17:28.710 I really just don't like this anymore, then it's okay. 382 00:17:28.769 --> 00:17:30.990 Go get a new one. Like, that's great. 383 00:17:31.269 --> 00:17:32.690 One of the things that we talk about in the 384 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:36.839 book is we have like four or five different reasons 385 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:41.349 why task managers fail. And so I think that's also 386 00:17:41.410 --> 00:17:44.009 very eye-opening is to be able to see that, oh, 387 00:17:44.069 --> 00:17:46.859 if I'm in between two task managers and I'm in 388 00:17:47.059 --> 00:17:50.900 between for too long, it's probably going to break because 389 00:17:50.980 --> 00:17:56.339 there's confusion and nothing is really being like used all in, right? 390 00:17:56.420 --> 00:17:58.960 And so that's something to be aware of. And so 391 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:01.769 there's just things there that we want people to think 392 00:18:01.849 --> 00:18:05.970 about and not just assume first that something's broken. There 393 00:18:05.990 --> 00:18:08.680 might be another you know, another underlying reason that they 394 00:18:08.740 --> 00:18:11.640 can actually challenge and get back going. 395 00:18:11.779 --> 00:18:13.940 The one I see the most for myself is like 396 00:18:14.019 --> 00:18:16.369 losing trust in my system because I haven't been using it. 397 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:19.079 And then that reinforcing not using it and being like, oh, 398 00:18:19.099 --> 00:18:20.000 I need to do something else. 399 00:18:20.259 --> 00:18:20.500 Yes. 400 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:22.279 Because like, oh, I haven't, I can't look at my 401 00:18:22.299 --> 00:18:24.329 to-do list if it doesn't have the actual to-dos I 402 00:18:24.349 --> 00:18:24.789 need to do. 403 00:18:25.049 --> 00:18:27.730 What do we say? We're like, oh, well, TickTick didn't 404 00:18:27.750 --> 00:18:30.670 work for me or Todoist didn't work for me. They failed. Well, 405 00:18:30.890 --> 00:18:34.289 the reasons that systems fail or apps fail for us 406 00:18:34.809 --> 00:18:37.950 invariably have nothing to do with the apps, right? The 407 00:18:38.109 --> 00:18:40.710 apps are doing what they promised to do. It's the 408 00:18:40.769 --> 00:18:43.809 human part, the human interaction where there's a mismatch. And 409 00:18:44.029 --> 00:18:46.670 that's not to say every tool should work for you. 410 00:18:46.809 --> 00:18:50.799 There's no should in that sentence. There are tastes and personalities, 411 00:18:51.299 --> 00:18:54.039 but the app itself, the tool, the system, the checklist, 412 00:18:54.380 --> 00:18:56.819 it's doing what it promised to do generally. 413 00:18:57.319 --> 00:18:57.819 It's us. 414 00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:01.220 It's our sort of commitment to making it a practice. 415 00:19:01.809 --> 00:19:04.869 And understanding what to do when that practice breaks, because 416 00:19:04.890 --> 00:19:05.190 it will. 417 00:19:05.349 --> 00:19:08.099 Right. It will. And that's part of the expectation is 418 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:11.099 that it's not going to be a consistent, perfect system. 419 00:19:11.140 --> 00:19:13.680 That's not what we're looking for. We're looking for something 420 00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:17.720 that's complete and that is resilient when these things happen. 421 00:19:18.019 --> 00:19:20.619 But going back to fear of better options, that's the 422 00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:24.130 other thing is that I will tell you almost every 423 00:19:24.250 --> 00:19:28.269 single time I do a presentation on either time blocking 424 00:19:28.329 --> 00:19:31.359 or something to do with planning, There's always the question 425 00:19:31.420 --> 00:19:35.859 being asked, what is the best one for ADHD? And 426 00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:39.960 there isn't any. And that is such a hard thing 427 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:42.980 to say back. It's like there is not a perfect system. 428 00:19:42.980 --> 00:19:45.930 There is not a better option. Because I have seen 429 00:19:45.930 --> 00:19:49.250 things work that are very complex systems that are in 430 00:19:49.250 --> 00:19:50.750 you know, these systems. 431 00:19:50.450 --> 00:19:52.690 Like Notion and OneNote. 432 00:19:52.730 --> 00:19:57.619 Like are just really complex to having a client literally 433 00:19:57.670 --> 00:20:00.299 have a note card that had the three things that 434 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.400 they were working on today in their back pocket and 435 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:08.299 it worked. So it really depends on what works for you. 436 00:20:08.359

--> 00:20:11.920 And I think practicing and giving it enough time and 437 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.779 chance to see if it works, but really adjusting it 438 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:19.789 and customizing it for you. And only you can really 439 00:20:19.869 --> 00:20:23.309 answer that question by investing some time and some focus 440 00:20:23.390 --> 00:20:24.109 on what it is that. 441 00:20:24.049 --> 00:20:24.910 You really need. 442 00:20:25.029 --> 00:20:27.890 What is the purpose of this tool? How is it 443 00:20:27.930 --> 00:20:30.450 going to help me? How does it work with my ADHD? 444 00:20:31.029 --> 00:20:33.930 And I think most important is how do they work 445 00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:36.859 and connect with the other tools? Because if we're only 446 00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:39.420 looking at the calendar and And the task manager is 447 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:43.299 two individual tools. You don't have a complete system. We 448 00:20:43.339 --> 00:20:46.869 have to really look at all of these things working together. 449 00:20:47.029 --> 00:20:48.049 What's your workflow? 450 00:20:48.130 --> 00:20:51.210 So I'll tell people, hey, if you need a sticky note, 451 00:20:51.309 --> 00:20:53.109 like I did it today. I was in a meeting 452 00:20:53.490 --> 00:20:56.490 and I wrote a little task. It says, add team 453 00:20:56.529 --> 00:20:59.369 member to FreshBooks. This is what came out of my 454 00:20:59.650 --> 00:21:02.589 meeting today. It didn't go straight into my task manager. 455 00:21:02.950 --> 00:21:05.150 It's on a sticky note. This is one of my 456 00:21:05.210 --> 00:21:08.049 planning tools is a sticky note. This is an inbox 457 00:21:08.089 --> 00:21:11.390 for me, right? So now when I have a moment, 458 00:21:11.650 --> 00:21:14.349 I will put this into my task manager and I'll 459 00:21:14.369 --> 00:21:16.349 take care of it when it's time to take care 460 00:21:16.410 --> 00:21:18.269 of it. But then once it's in the task manager, 461 00:21:18.369 --> 00:21:21.089 I can throw away the sticky note. Understanding that flow 462 00:21:21.170 --> 00:21:23.410 of how you work is so important. 463 00:21:23.569 --> 00:21:25.390 Like, yeah, it's funny with those like sticky notes. Like, yeah, 464 00:21:25.410 --> 00:21:26.750 if you don't get rid of it, then like three 465 00:21:26.789 --> 00:21:28.650 months later, you're like, did I do this? 466 00:21:29.130 --> 00:21:29.890 Exactly. 467 00:21:30.730 --> 00:21:31.650 Is this still relevant? 468 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:32.619 Right. 469 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.079 I remember there was also a very specific thing in there, 470 00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:37.380 like being like more specific with what you say on 471 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:39.980 your like notes and things and tasks that you put 472 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.640 in your thing, because you do need to have context 473 00:21:42.920 --> 00:21:46.000 and the action to do something within your task, because 474 00:21:46.059 --> 00:21:48.619 it's very hard to, you know, a couple weeks later, 475 00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:50.400 look at something like, what did I mean by this 476 00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:52.630 task and how am I going to get started on it? 477 00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:53.220 Yes. 478 00:21:53.849 --> 00:21:55.309 Pete, you can tell me what you think, but I 479 00:21:55.329 --> 00:21:58.779 think that's like a work in progress. Like I always 480 00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:01.900 am seeing something that, what did I mean by that? 481 00:22:02.059 --> 00:22:05.859 And having to rephrase it and think about like, what 482 00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:08.990 is the verb? What is the verb that is asking me, 483 00:22:09.190 --> 00:22:10.569 what do I need to do here? Or do I 484 00:22:10.609 --> 00:22:13.549 need to break this down? Because it's really three things, 485 00:22:13.630 --> 00:22:17.920 not just one. But yeah, it's always a constant review 486 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.930 and constant adjustment to change? Because, you know, when you're 487 00:22:21.970 --> 00:22:24.170 getting it out of your head, it may not make sense. 488 00:22:24.890 --> 00:22:27.200 But then when you go back and look at it, like, 489 00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:30.099 what do I need to do to make it make sense? Yeah. 490 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:32.099 And the last piece, and this is just something that 491 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:34.660 I've been playing with very recently, I guess in the 492 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:37.849 last year or so, but most conveniently very recently, is 493 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:41.329 we talk often about breaking complex tasks down, right? If 494 00:22:41.369 --> 00:22:44.390 the task that we're writing is really complicated, then break 495 00:22:44.430 --> 00:22:47.880 it down into its smallest atomic points. And One of 496 00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:51.500 those we got from our friend Kodosh Dini, Dr. Dini, 497 00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:54.099 who says, you know, you just visit the task. That's 498 00:22:54.140 --> 00:22:56.599 his thing. Like, just visit it. It might just mean 499 00:22:56.619 --> 00:22:58.460 bring the resources out that you need for it and 500 00:22:58.509 --> 00:23:00.230 touch them and look at them and maybe read them 501 00:23:00.470 --> 00:23:02.089 and then put them away again because it keeps it 502 00:23:02.109 --> 00:23:04.750 in your head. For me, I've just been playing with, 503 00:23:04.990 --> 00:23:07.730 you know, our sort of shared task management tool of 504 00:23:07.789 --> 00:23:10.349 choice is Todoist. And there's a function in there over 505 00:23:10.390 --> 00:23:12.750 the last year or so where you can click on 506 00:23:12.769 --> 00:23:14.759 the three dots next to a task and there's an 507 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:17.660 AI option that says break task down. And it adds 508 00:23:17.980 --> 00:23:20.630 six or eight new tasks that it thinks would fit 509 00:23:20.769 --> 00:23:23.430 into the task that I can't quite

wrap my head around. 510 00:23:23.869 --> 00:23:25.589 I had no idea it did that. 511 00:23:25.809 --> 00:23:25.990 Yeah. 512 00:23:26.309 --> 00:23:26.869 Wow. 513 00:23:27.109 --> 00:23:27.829 Mind-blowing. 514 00:23:28.109 --> 00:23:28.430 I know. 515 00:23:28.829 --> 00:23:31.230 When I'm in complete vapor lock on a task because 516 00:23:31.269 --> 00:23:33.920 I just don't know the way in, sometimes the tasks 517 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:35.859 that it comes up with are nonsense and I'm not 518 00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:37.779 going to do them the way it suggests. But it 519 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:40.339 helps me unlock what I do need to do next 520 00:23:40.740 --> 00:23:44.319 because I read something immediately and say, oh, I'm not 521 00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:47.380 going to do that. But, and the but is the lesson. 522 00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:49.519 If I can get to a but, essentially what we're 523 00:23:49.539 --> 00:23:51.640 doing is the same thing we did with the socks, right? 524 00:23:51.900 --> 00:23:54.599 We got rid of the worst options so that we 525 00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:57.369 could see that we have a number of different ways 526 00:23:57.430 --> 00:24:00.289 into this particular task. And that's the ADHD way of 527 00:24:00.349 --> 00:24:03.730 sort of creatively finding your way around the direct path 528 00:24:03.769 --> 00:24:06.059 because- We don't take the direct path. We've got to 529 00:24:06.099 --> 00:24:07.900 find our way in through the side door. And this 530 00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:11.069 tool in using AI to break down tasks has been mind-blowing. 531 00:24:11.109 --> 00:24:12.529 We didn't write about that in the book because it 532 00:24:12.569 --> 00:24:14.730 didn't really exist when we were writing about the book. 533 00:24:14.809 --> 00:24:17.390 I'm just now knowing you can do this on Todoist. 534 00:24:18.049 --> 00:24:18.529 It's incredible. 535 00:24:18.549 --> 00:24:19.430 Yeah, it's great. 536 00:24:19.490 --> 00:24:20.049 It's incredible. 537 00:24:20.289 --> 00:24:23.059 I've done something similar with my kids and being like 538 00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:25.160 using the same idea of like, how do you clean 539 00:24:25.180 --> 00:24:27.940 your room so that I can break that deck? 540 00:24:28.140 --> 00:24:29.400 Good idea. 541 00:24:29.420 --> 00:24:31.519 And then printing that out and then giving that to them. 542 00:24:31.539 --> 00:24:33.349 And they're like, oh. The first few times were great. 543 00:24:33.369 --> 00:24:34.529 And then they're like, I still don't want to clean 544 00:24:34.549 --> 00:24:34.789 my room. 545 00:24:35.089 --> 00:24:37.970 But at least they know how to do it now 546 00:24:38.049 --> 00:24:39.009 and they have the steps. 547 00:24:39.069 --> 00:24:40.390 So that's good. Yeah. 548 00:24:40.569 --> 00:24:43.309 I mean, I love being able to kind of like 549 00:24:43.569 --> 00:24:45.930 offload that executive function of figuring out how to break 550 00:24:45.950 --> 00:24:48.069 down that task because it's one of those things. It 551 00:24:48.130 --> 00:24:50.589 feels like it should be easy, but it's not. It's 552 00:24:50.869 --> 00:24:53.410 where we're like mistaking like the idea of simple for easy. 553 00:24:53.730 --> 00:24:56.670 And when we can really look at, okay, this takes 554 00:24:56.990 --> 00:24:59.670 more effort than I'm giving you credit for. And then 555 00:24:59.710 --> 00:25:02.470 be like, okay, give it the thing. But then being 556 00:25:02.490 --> 00:25:03.769 able to like, oh, I don't even have to do 557 00:25:03.809 --> 00:25:05.730 this anymore. I can just ask and then I can 558 00:25:05.769 --> 00:25:07.849 get maybe not the best answers, but at least guidance 559 00:25:07.910 --> 00:25:10.730 on where. Because I always find that structure of not 560 00:25:10.769 --> 00:25:12.710 starting off at nothing so helpful. 561 00:25:13.130 --> 00:25:15.549 So helpful. You just said something that I just want 562 00:25:15.569 --> 00:25:18.029 to anchor on a little bit because it's an implicit 563 00:25:18.089 --> 00:25:19.930 message in what we're trying to do, I think, with 564 00:25:19.950 --> 00:25:22.430 the podcast and the book. That, you know, when I 565 00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:25.400 run into something that I feel deeply should be easy. 566 00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:28.660 That's not like a cognitive response. That's an emotional response. 567 00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:31.809 And it's a judgmental response because I'm judging myself against 568 00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:35.089 what other people, the degree of ease other people might 569 00:25:35.130 --> 00:25:37.789 have or not have with a particular task. But what 570 00:25:37.849 --> 00:25:41.650 happens to my ADHD brain when I stop saying this 571 00:25:41.690 --> 00:25:44.450 should be easy and just say, hmm, this is hard 572 00:25:45.029 --> 00:25:47.650 and then stop talking in my head? Right. What happens 573 00:25:47.670 --> 00:25:50.289 when my practice is this is hard? What I do 574 00:25:50.349 --> 00:25:55.960 naturally is introduce clarity that was not present before. When 575 00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:59.240 I say this should be easy, I'm in a fog 576 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.170 because my brain is focusing on all the ways other 577 00:26:02.210 --> 00:26:06.190 people do a thing. It's a complete mess. I can't 578 00:26:06.329 --> 00:26:10.490 rationalize should be easy when I'm approaching a task, but 579 00:26:10.549 --> 00:26:15.039 I can rationalize this is hard because then I'm in 580 00:26:15.059 --> 00:26:19.480 a provocative sort of curious, maybe slightly fearful state, maybe 581 00:26:19.500 --> 00:26:22.400 an anxious state, but I'm not in a confused state, 582 00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:25.750 which makes it easier to to find the way in. 583 00:26:25.910 --> 00:26:28.470 If I just stop talking about what it should be 584 00:26:28.549 --> 00:26:31.150 to everybody else or what I think it should be 585 00:26:31.170 -->

00:26:34.450 to me because of everybody else's experience, I find an 586 00:26:34.650 --> 00:26:37.460 easier route into a hard thing. 587 00:26:37.819 --> 00:26:40.519 And this idea I always have where I'm like, I'll 588 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:42.420 step back and like, why is this so hard for me? 589 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:45.220 And then I go, oh, it's my ADHD. And if 590 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:46.980 I go from that, I'm like, oh, this is a 591 00:26:47.019 --> 00:26:48.089 solvable problem then. 592 00:26:48.220 --> 00:26:48.460 Yes. 593 00:26:48.619 --> 00:26:50.450 If this is hard for me because of my ADHD, 594 00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:53.299 I know ADHD solutions and I can work from them. 595 00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:55.339 Because this is reality right now. Let's just, that's an 596 00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:58.069 act of accepting reality right now. So let's move forward 597 00:26:58.509 --> 00:26:59.589 using our ADHD tools. 598 00:26:59.890 --> 00:27:02.869 And that really, I mean, that is a great example, William, of, 599 00:27:03.049 --> 00:27:05.329 you know, being unapologetically ADHD. 600 00:27:05.869 --> 00:27:06.599 Like, I get it. 601 00:27:06.730 --> 00:27:09.349 This is what's happening, but I can separate that. And 602 00:27:09.390 --> 00:27:12.029 I know, like you said, I have solutions here. I 603 00:27:12.049 --> 00:27:14.529 can do something about this. And yeah, that's great. 604 00:27:15.079 --> 00:27:17.960 The ADHD acceptance piece is so important, I find, because 605 00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:21.549 before I'm like, Because we always have some sort of 606 00:27:21.609 --> 00:27:24.970 label for ourself. And a lot of labels are really 607 00:27:25.009 --> 00:27:27.650 not useful for solutions. We're like, why can't I do this? Well, 608 00:27:27.670 --> 00:27:30.170 it's because I'm lazy. The solution for not being lazy 609 00:27:30.230 --> 00:27:32.779 is to just do the thing. But that's a bad solution. 610 00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:34.839 Like being like, just do that. I'm like, well, that's 611 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:36.920 still hard and I'm not going to do it. It's like, oh, 612 00:27:36.940 --> 00:27:40.220 but I'm having executive dysfunction and can't get myself to 613 00:27:40.339 --> 00:27:42.740 want to clean the dishes. Like, well, maybe I need 614 00:27:42.779 --> 00:27:44.829 some music or I need to do something there. And 615 00:27:44.869 --> 00:27:48.259 that becomes the solution rather than just this amorphous, I'm 616 00:27:48.339 --> 00:27:50.880 lazy or something that doesn't have good solutions. 617 00:27:51.460 --> 00:27:52.339 Right. Right. 618 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:53.240 I had a couple. 619 00:27:53.059 --> 00:27:55.180 More notes here that I saw that I really loved. 620 00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:58.019 The one I had to like stop the book and 621 00:27:58.039 --> 00:27:59.769 make sure I made the note for was writing it 622 00:27:59.809 --> 00:28:02.230 down is not a commitment to do it or a 623 00:28:02.250 --> 00:28:04.509 task list. And I was like, this is something I 624 00:28:04.569 --> 00:28:06.549 know and something I've said before, but you guys said 625 00:28:06.589 --> 00:28:07.789 it like three times in the book in a row. 626 00:28:07.809 --> 00:28:09.089 And I'm like, there's a reason for that. 627 00:28:09.470 --> 00:28:12.279 How important is that? Right. The only commitment you're making 628 00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:15.089 to write it down is just to think about it later. 629 00:28:15.349 --> 00:28:17.769 You might not do it at all, but like you said, 630 00:28:17.789 --> 00:28:20.230 you just don't want to forget the opportunity to think 631 00:28:20.289 --> 00:28:20.890 about it for later. 632 00:28:21.130 --> 00:28:24.390 My current tool for organizing is I just have the 633 00:28:24.569 --> 00:28:26.890 little notebook that I keep that has a bunch of 634 00:28:27.150 --> 00:28:29.190 sections and I have my to-do list in the beginning. 635 00:28:29.650 --> 00:28:31.099 And there's something like in the beginning, I just have 636 00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:34.119 breakfast veggies, which is something I want to think about more, 637 00:28:34.339 --> 00:28:35.200 but yeah. 638 00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:37.259 Just visit it. Visit breakfast veggies. 639 00:28:38.059 --> 00:28:40.039 Kind of see it in your head, you know, like 640 00:28:40.119 --> 00:28:41.200 mind's like, okay. 641 00:28:41.380 --> 00:28:43.549 But yeah, it's just something like, oh yeah, just Use 642 00:28:43.569 --> 00:28:46.190 your tools and let it be okay to not let 643 00:28:46.269 --> 00:28:48.759 the tools, like, control you. You're in charge of the tool. 644 00:28:49.019 --> 00:28:50.019 They're not judging you. 645 00:28:50.380 --> 00:28:52.900 We do talk often about, you know, especially in context 646 00:28:52.980 --> 00:28:56.000 of dealing with people who are charged with helping us 647 00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:59.839 with accommodations in college, at work, whatever, right, HR. And 648 00:28:59.859 --> 00:29:03.019 we always use the sort of language around, like, you're 649 00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:05.170 your best advocate, right? You're the one who gets to 650 00:29:05.329 --> 00:29:08.690 own your advocacy for your ADHD. The same thing is 651 00:29:08.910 --> 00:29:11.700 true with your tools, right? You kind of have to 652 00:29:11.900 --> 00:29:15.299 advocate and assert yourself into the tools that you use. 653 00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:18.109 You have to make it your own thing. And that's 654 00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:21.410 a responsibility and an opportunity. And for some people, it's 655 00:29:21.430 --> 00:29:23.109 a huge turnoff. You just want it to do all 656 00:29:23.130 --> 00:29:26.109 the work. But I think with ADHD, we have to 657 00:29:26.250 --> 00:29:28.869 take ownership of the fact that the system is going 658 00:29:28.890 --> 00:29:33.210 to have to be supremely customized to how our brains work. 659 00:29:33.430 --> 00:29:36.349 And

you might need a notebook and a pen that 660 00:29:36.390 --> 00:29:39.410 you enjoy writing with because of its tactile experience and 661 00:29:39.430 --> 00:29:42.000 paper that doesn't bleed just right. And the words you 662 00:29:42.019 --> 00:29:46.180 write might just be breakfast veggies. But that attaches to 663 00:29:46.220 --> 00:29:47.940 your brain in a way that it would never attach 664 00:29:47.980 --> 00:29:50.480 to mine. And that's OK because you're the advocate in 665 00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:54.470 that situation. And I'm the advocate in Todoist. And we 666 00:29:54.509 --> 00:29:56.670 have to own that. Like one thing isn't going to 667 00:29:56.710 --> 00:29:59.269 work for everybody. Back to Nikki's point. There is no 668 00:29:59.349 --> 00:30:03.089 best ADHD tool in spite of us being sold that constantly. 669 00:30:03.650 --> 00:30:05.609 One of the original concepts for this podcast when I 670 00:30:05.630 --> 00:30:07.250 was like brainstorming ideas, I'm like, oh, I'm just going 671 00:30:07.269 --> 00:30:10.410 to talk about tools that work really well for ADHD. 672 00:30:10.470 --> 00:30:13.319 And I was just like, it doesn't matter, though. But 673 00:30:13.339 --> 00:30:15.119 I was like, I start writing about something and I'm like, well, 674 00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:16.799 the real thing that you need to pay attention to 675 00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:18.859 is how you use the tool. And then I'm like, 676 00:30:19.180 --> 00:30:21.200 I keep doing that. I can't make that the theme 677 00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:22.829 of the show. And that's like, well, then maybe I 678 00:30:22.849 --> 00:30:24.309 should do the thing that I keep writing about. 679 00:30:24.549 --> 00:30:24.970 Yeah. 680 00:30:25.109 --> 00:30:25.430 Yeah. 681 00:30:25.490 --> 00:30:26.710 Right. All right. 682 00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:29.279 I was wondering if there were any ideas or anything 683 00:30:29.299 --> 00:30:30.839 that you wanted to leave the audience with. 684 00:30:31.220 --> 00:30:34.000 You know, I think more than anything, we hope that 685 00:30:34.220 --> 00:30:37.920 this is a great resource for your listeners. It's that 686 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:41.299 framework that we've been talking about. But more than anything, 687 00:30:41.380 --> 00:30:44.259 I hope it's something that you keep on your shelf 688 00:30:44.420 --> 00:30:47.609 and go back to later too. When you do notice 689 00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:50.890 that things are working as well as you want them to, 690 00:30:50.990 --> 00:30:53.869 or you're noticing those roadblocks that we talk about are 691 00:30:53.890 --> 00:30:56.130 some of those things that kind of break the systems. 692 00:30:56.700 --> 00:30:59.119 that it's a resource for you. It's not just a 693 00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:02.089 book you read once. And it's a book that we 694 00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:06.690 hope you continue working out of to build that system 695 00:31:06.869 --> 00:31:08.930 and then be able to use

it in the future 696 00:31:08.970 --> 00:31:09.660 when you need it. 697 00:31:10.049 --> 00:31:10.809 And we want you. 698 00:31:10.730 --> 00:31:14.970 To be unapologetically you, really embracing who you are as 699 00:31:15.009 --> 00:31:18.150 a person. And one of my final comments is that 700 00:31:18.230 --> 00:31:20.869 life is not just a to-do list. Let's make sure 701 00:31:20.930 --> 00:31:23.849 that we have joy in our life. Let's intentionally plan 702 00:31:24.349 --> 00:31:27.480 time with our friends and our family and the things that. 703 00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:28.700 Mean the most to us. 704 00:31:28.769 --> 00:31:30.670 Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter 705 00:31:30.730 --> 00:31:33.730 if you have dirty dishes in the sink. Do your 706 00:31:33.769 --> 00:31:36.690 kids know you love them? Are you spending time with 707 00:31:36.710 --> 00:31:40.269 your family? That's the stuff that matters. And that's the 708 00:31:40.309 --> 00:31:43.009 message we hope to leave your listeners with. 709 00:31:43.029 --> 00:31:43.930 Couldn't have said it better. 710 00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:46.680 Super important thing to do. Because yeah, it's so easy 711 00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:49.960 to leave that stuff off your calendar when that's precisely 712 00:31:50.019 --> 00:31:51.539 the stuff that needs to go on there first. 713 00:31:52.059 --> 00:31:52.339 Yes. 714 00:31:52.980 --> 00:31:55.579 Otherwise, we will fill it with stuff that we don't, 715 00:31:56.180 --> 00:31:57.000 necessarily need to do. 716 00:31:57.259 --> 00:31:57.640 So true. 717 00:31:57.859 --> 00:31:58.180 All right. 718 00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:00.720 Well, the book is now out, right? And so people 719 00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:03.539 can imagine get that Amazon anywhere that books are sold. 720 00:32:04.019 --> 00:32:04.609 Absolutely. 721 00:32:05.089 --> 00:32:07.789 And if you guys want to hear more of Pete 722 00:32:07.829 --> 00:32:11.309 and Nikki, go check out their podcast, Taking Control, the 723 00:32:11.430 --> 00:32:13.670 ADHD podcast. Been listening to you guys for a while. 724 00:32:13.690 --> 00:32:15.069 So it's been a pleasure to have you on the show. 725 00:32:15.369 --> 00:32:16.009 Our pleasure as well. 726 00:32:16.190 --> 00:32:17.339 Thank you so much for having us. 727 00:32:24.809 --> 00:32:26.619 Thanks again to Nikki and Pete for coming on the show, 728 00:32:26.690 --> 00:32:28.430 and thank you for sticking with us all the way 729 00:32:28.470 --> 00:32:30.390 to the end. If you want to check out more 730 00:32:30.410 --> 00:32:33.609 of their stuff, just search for Taking Control, the ADHD podcast. 731 00:32:33.890 --> 00:32:35.690 Or if you're interested in their book, go check out 732 00:32:35.869 --> 00:32:39.869 Unapologetically ADHD, a step-by-step framework for everyday planning on your 733 00:32:39.910 --> 00:32:42.289 own terms. And as always, links will be in the 734 00:32:42.309 --> 00:32:44.970 show notes. But before you go, let's do a quick 735 00:32:45.009 --> 00:32:49.450 rundown of today's top tips. 1. Embrace your ADHD and 736 00:32:49.490 --> 00:32:52.650 plan your day around it to avoid unrealistic expectations and 737 00:32:52.809 --> 00:32:56.750 the possible ensuing shame. Two, when looking for a system, 738 00:32:56.910 --> 00:33:00.630 we need to recognize that no one-size-fits-all tool exists. Try 739 00:33:00.670 --> 00:33:02.859 to avoid the trap of looking for the best options. 740 00:33:03.210 --> 00:33:08.519 Focus instead on eliminating the worst options to simplify your decision-making. Three, 741 00:33:09.019 --> 00:33:11.859 when we recognize the importance of revisiting and adjusting our 742 00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:15.559 systems regularly rather than constantly switching to new tools, it'll 743 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.299 help us acknowledge that every tool or system will have 744 00:33:18.339 --> 00:33:20.799 days that it fails. With that in mind, we can 745 00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:23.119 focus on embracing resilience so that we can get back 746 00:33:23.180 --> 00:33:27.339 on tracks when things do go awry. Alright, that's it. 747 00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:29.140 Thanks for listening. I'd love to hear what you thought 748 00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:31.619 of this episode. Feel free to connect with me over 749 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:35.920 at hackingyouradhd.com slash contact. If you'd like links or to 750 00:33:35.980 --> 00:33:37.839 read this episode's transcript, you can go to the show 751 00:33:37.859 --> 00:33:45.039 notes page at hackingyouradhd.com slash 195. And now for your 752 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:48.890 moment of dad. In my opinion, Prometheus had the ultimate 753 00:33:48.930 --> 00:33:49.309 hot take.