บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Ep 97: How Millennials Are Changing The Way Organizations Recruit And Retain Top Talent

27 00:02:18.904 --> 00:02:22.345 And that is one of the things that we talk about in this episode of the podcast. 28 00:02:22.425 --> 00:02:27.646 So some of the things you can expect to learn are, why millennials? 29 00:02:27.847 --> 00:02:33.548 So why is it that the CIO of such a large global company cares about millennials? 30 00:02:33.588 --> 00:02:35.209 Why isn't he just focused on technology? 31 00:02:35.789 --> 00:02:45.034 We also look at what it's like to work at VMware, some of the things that VMware is doing internally, various programs that they have going on. 32 00:02:46.355 --> 00:02:49.737 We also look at this notion of shiny perks. 33 00:02:50.197 --> 00:02:55.520 So we keep hearing about companies that are giving free food, ping pong tables, video games, 34 00:02:56.220 --> 00:03:00.563 Is that really all you need to do to recruit and retain talent, especially millennials? 35 00:03:01.203 --> 00:03:08.647 I think you might already know the answer to that, but we'll dive much deeper into that topic and what millennials actually need and care about. 36 00:03:09.468 --> 00:03:14.271 A couple other things that we look at are the multi-generational workforce. 37 00:03:14.291 --> 00:03:15.992 So working with five generations. 38 00:03:16.832 --> 00:03:24.457 I asked Basque about the Glassdoor rating that VMware has, around four stars, and what they've been doing to drive that. 39 00:03:25.177 --> 00:03:41.261 And all in all, we just look at how millennials are shaping the organization as a whole and why this is not just relevant for people that are in HR or leadership roles, but how this is actually shaping the technology decisions and things from a technology perspective as well. 40 00:03:41.862 --> 00:03:46.883 And then to wrap up, I asked Bas some fun questions about some embarrassing moments he's had at work. 41 00:03:47.503 --> 00:03:50.124 And he shares some interesting stories around that as well. 42 00:03:50.264 --> 00:03:54.025 So we get a little bit personal with Basque as well, so you can get to know him a little bit better. 43 00:03:54.965 --> 00:04:06.988 If you want to get access to more episodes of these podcasts or videos or articles or newsletters, pretty much anything around the future of work, you can visit thefutureorganization.com. 44 00:04:08.728 --> 00:04:16.010 If you want to sponsor content the way Targus is doing, you can email me, jacob at thefutureorganization.com. 45 00:04:17.890 --> 00:04:24.313 The newsletter is simply just text the word future to the number 44222. 46 00:04:24.753 --> 00:04:33.298 And my one favor for you, if you enjoy these podcasts and if they bring you any value whatsoever, I would greatly appreciate a review on iTunes. 47 00:04:33.538 --> 00:04:38.060 So either just open up the app and type in Jacob Morgan or the Future of Work podcast. 48 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:40.861 and show the podcast a little bit of love. 49 00:04:40.901 --> 00:04:43.682 It helps other people find it, and I greatly appreciate it. 50 00:04:44.703 --> 00:04:48.264 Make sure to say hello to the folks over at Targus, targus.com. 51 00:04:48.304 --> 00:04:51.986 Again, they are the ones that sponsored this episode of the podcast. 52 00:04:52.086 --> 00:04:59.709 So if you do enjoy it, make sure you can send them a tweet, visit their site, learn a little bit more about some of the things that they're doing. 53 00:04:59.829 --> 00:05:01.890 I would greatly appreciate that, as would they. 54 00:05:02.810 --> 00:05:05.491 Okay, that is my usual four to five minute intro spiel. 55 00:05:05.511 --> 00:05:17.915 Now we can get right into this week's episode of the podcast with Basque Iyer, the chief information officer at VMware, as we talk about how millennials are changing the way organizations have to recruit and retain talent. 56 00:05:18.495 --> 00:05:18.795 Enjoy. 57 00:05:19.056 --> 00:05:21.676 Five, four, three, two, one. 58 00:05:22.557 --> 00:05:23.777 This is a journey. 59 00:05:25.098 --> 00:05:26.078 Empty your mind. 60 00:05:29.758 --> 00:05:30.799 You'll know when it comes. 61 00:05:31.540 --> 00:05:35.123 We hope it never comes, but we'll get ready. 62 00:05:35.143 --> 00:05:37.965 Welcome to the Future of Work podcast with your host, Jacob Robin. 63 00:05:41.868 --> 00:05:44.531 Welcome everyone to another episode of the Future of Work podcast. 64 00:05:44.571 --> 00:05:49.555 My guest today is Basque Iyer, who's the Chief Information Officer of VMware. 65 00:05:49.935 --> 00:05:56.160 He's also the former Chief Information Officer of Juniper Networks and the former Group CIO of Honeywell. 66 00:05:56.541 --> 00:05:57.802 Basque, thank you very much for joining me. 67 00:05:58.695 --> 00:06:00.176 Jacob, thanks for calling me. 68 00:06:00.696 --> 00:06:09.979 Yeah, and we were actually just talking before I pushed the record button that we probably should have done this in person since we're both in the Bay Area, but hopefully we'll be able to get together sometime in the near future for a copy. 69 00:06:09.999 --> 00:06:10.860 Yeah, yeah, I know. 70 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:16.162 Being such a networked place in the Bay Area, it's kind of strange to do a Skype meeting, 71 00:06:17.011 --> 00:06:17.612 whatever works. 72 00:06:17.912 --> 00:06:26.639 Yeah, I don't know why, it was an oversight on my part, I must have just completely forgot that you're local, but we'll definitely get together for that coffee one of these days. 73 00:06:27.980 --> 00:06:41.692 So today's topic is how millennials are changing the way organizations recruit and retain talent, but before we jump into that topic, why don't we start with some background information about you and VMware for people that are not familiar with the company? 74 00:06:42.353 --> 00:06:43.614 Yeah, sure, so I am, 75 00:06:45.503 --> 00:06:47.644 I got my education in India. 76 00:06:47.864 --> 00:06:55.987 I ran my own refrigerators and air conditioning business for a period of time and decided

to get into computers, hopefully to go sell computers. 77 00:06:56.247 --> 00:06:58.448 And so I came to the US 30 years ago. 78 00:06:59.368 --> 00:07:04.990 And lo and behold, the computer industry just took off almost the day I landed, it seems to me, at least. 79 00:07:05.770 --> 00:07:12.873 And one thing after the other, I had an opportunity to work on some of the solar energy programs 30 years ago with some of the space programs. 80 00:07:13.705 --> 00:07:22.689 then manufacturing automation, worked in companies like J&J, GlaxoSmithKline, Honey Welfare a very long time, traveled worldwide. 81 00:07:23.209 --> 00:07:26.591 And then this Silicon Valley bug got me about five years ago. 82 00:07:27.831 --> 00:07:32.973 You know, I've always worked with Silicon Valley and I used to think there was nothing special about Silicon Valley. 83 00:07:34.274 --> 00:07:39.416 And I thought it was just all made up, then became a little bit more intrigued. 84 00:07:40.110 --> 00:07:43.611 And I completely got converted when both of my kids went into Berkeley. 85 00:07:43.671 --> 00:07:51.554 So I decided to make a life change and moved and worked to what at that time was a smaller company, Juniper Networks, as their CIO. 86 00:07:52.374 --> 00:07:55.255 And I feel like I'm learning all over again. 87 00:07:55.315 --> 00:07:58.196 I feel like, you know, whatever I learned before, I had to unlearn. 88 00:07:58.796 --> 00:08:03.318 And unfortunately, I have, you know, a lot of experience in information technology. 89 00:08:03.338 --> 00:08:04.698 So there's a lot of things to unlearn. 90 00:08:05.438 --> 00:08:09.840 And it's been a great ride learning how real technical companies work. 91 00:08:10.561 --> 00:08:17.227 what the future of information technology is and how rapidly companies are being created and destroyed. 92 00:08:17.708 --> 00:08:22.151 And it's gonna get even worse or even better depending on how you look at it. 93 00:08:22.792 --> 00:08:26.255 The last year and a half or so, I've been with VMware as a CIO. 94 00:08:26.415 --> 00:08:37.705 And the nice thing about, so what VMware does for people who may not know much about it is, we were the folks that build the components that makes cloud computing and 95 00:08:38.813 --> 00:08:40.354 the future of data center possible. 96 00:08:40.534 --> 00:08:51.416 VMware came to fame because they came up with this concept called virtualization, which created a software layer that people can install and run on any hardware. 97 00:08:51.516 --> 00:08:57.798 So we more or less commoditized every hardware vendor there was and commoditized most of the storage vendors and so on. 98 00:08:57.818 --> 00:09:07.540 So it gave CIOs an opportunity to now pretty much not get locked in to a particular vendor. 99 00:09:08.272 --> 00:09:09.633 and it took off like a storm. 100 00:09:10.533 --> 00:09:19.875 The third thing is also what virtualization does is most computers you buy do not work as hard as they can. 101

00:09:19.915 --> 00:09:24.116 Most of the CPUs are not utilized at 100% of the capacity. 102 00:09:25.417 --> 00:09:28.318 Most of them would be working at 30% of the capacity. 103 00:09:28.738 --> 00:09:36.740 And what virtualization did was created a layer where you can have fewer number of computers, actual hardware, which work much harder 104 00:09:37.551 --> 00:09:44.453 at 100% or 90% capacities, but the end user, it feels like they're still getting their own personal server or system. 105 00:09:44.513 --> 00:09:46.133 So it was a revolutionary concept. 106 00:09:47.073 --> 00:09:50.754 VMware has continued to innovate. 107 00:09:50.934 --> 00:09:54.035 They've built a building block for cloud computing. 108 00:09:54.495 --> 00:10:01.837 We are pretty big on making sure that your networks are secure in the whole concept called software-defined network, VMware is pioneering in that. 109 00:10:02.617 --> 00:10:05.918 And also in places like mobility, the whole world is going 110 00:10:06.712 --> 00:10:08.093 more and more toward mobile computing. 111 00:10:08.974 --> 00:10:14.136 And you need tools to deploy solutions both effectively, fast, and also securely. 112 00:10:14.196 --> 00:10:17.818 So it's diversified into a whole different area these days. 113 00:10:18.339 --> 00:10:19.299 How big is VMware? 114 00:10:19.319 --> 00:10:20.460 How many employees do you guys have? 115 00:10:21.400 --> 00:10:23.342 It's about 20,000 employees we have. 116 00:10:23.942 --> 00:10:27.764 It's about $6 billion roughly from a revenue standpoint. 117 00:10:28.564 --> 00:10:29.625 So quite a good sized company. 118 00:10:29.645 --> 00:10:32.807 I'm sure a lot of people probably don't know how large VMware really is. 119 00:10:33.612 --> 00:10:37.293 Well, even I, so I was a VMware customer when I was a CIO for Honeywell. 120 00:10:37.333 --> 00:10:40.233 I know that I was a VMware customer when I was a CIO of Juniper. 121 00:10:41.314 --> 00:10:45.835 So I remember coming into Palo Alto in 2002 or whatever. 122 00:10:45.855 --> 00:10:49.075 I was one of the first customers and it looked to me like a startup. 123 00:10:49.455 --> 00:10:53.276 And I was actually thinking I was, you know, very creative company, very innovative. 124 00:10:53.856 --> 00:10:59.438 And I was taking a huge risk at that time in choosing this virtualization product in 2002, 2003. 125 00:11:01.472 --> 00:11:05.714 And so in my mind, VMware, I still think of it as a startup company. 126 00:11:06.294 --> 00:11:09.975 So I was quite surprised when I joined them to say, wow, this is actually a very big company. 127 00:11:10.375 --> 00:11:13.256 But we still behave in a lot of ways like a startup. 128 00:11:13.316 --> 00:11:16.237 And I hope we don't lose that startup mentality. 129 00:11:16.397 --> 00:11:19.738 Well, we'll definitely touch on some of that in just a few minutes. 130 00:11:20.359 --> 00:11:24.000 But what is your role as chief information officer, as CIO? 131 00:11:24.260 --> 00:11:24.840 What do you do? 132 00:11:24.860 --> 00:11:25.921 What are you responsible for? 133 00:11:26.601 --> 00:11:28.642 Well, that's what my wife asks me all the time. 134 00:11:31.330 --> 00:11:42.736 So chief information officer, typically in most companies, is the one who's responsible for all strategies and implementation as it comes to information technology or IT. 135 00:11:42.796 --> 00:11:48.399 So decisions on which way, which solutions to buy, which vendors to buy, what to deploy. 136 00:11:48.980 --> 00:11:59.105 And as IT becomes more and more your nervous system of the company, the chief information officer becomes accountable for all the decisions and solutions and strategies that you do there. 137 00:11:59.678 --> 00:12:01.499 In VMware, there's two roles for me. 138 00:12:01.939 --> 00:12:12.585 One is I do provide all the computing resources that the VMware company needs, including R&D and engineering and HR and finance, but I'm also customer number one. 139 00:12:13.165 --> 00:12:21.789 So most of the customers who come to VMware are my peers, most of them are my friends, our fellow CIOs who have worked with or known in several circles. 140 00:12:22.369 --> 00:12:26.151 So in VMware, I also have to provide the voice of the customer. 141 00:12:26.191 --> 00:12:27.392 So I'm customer number one, 142 00:12:27.835 --> 00:12:30.076 I run every product that VMware makes. 143 00:12:30.736 --> 00:12:32.197 I'm very critical of the products. 144 00:12:32.857 --> 00:12:35.859 I have a point of view on acquisition strategies that we have. 145 00:12:35.939 --> 00:12:41.942 I have a point of view on our pricing strategies, our sales strategies, our marketing strategies, and so on. 146 00:12:42.242 --> 00:12:46.144 People may not take my point of view, but I do have a point of view, and they expect me to have one. 147 00:12:46.844 --> 00:12:50.526 And I have to represent the voice of customer, as they say. 148 00:12:50.546 --> 00:12:51.966 I have to represent the CIOs. 149 00:12:52.687 --> 00:12:55.188 I also spend a good portion of my time 150 00:12:56.239 --> 00:13:14.143 external, which is unlike other CIOs, 10 to 20% of my time I spend talking to customers about solving the cloud problem, the issues you have with SaaS software and emerging technologies like analytics or now Internet of Things. 151 00:13:14.963 --> 00:13:15.583 So I do that. 152 00:13:16.523 --> 00:13:22.444 I also have an additional role recently that I am responsible for the business direction for Internet of Things for being there. 153 00:13:23.184 --> 00:13:25.545 As this emerging technology 154 00:13:26.686 --> 00:13:29.568 becomes bigger and bigger, what is the role of VMware? 155 00:13:29.748 --> 00:13:31.589 What alliances should we form, et cetera? 156 00:13:31.629 --> 00:13:33.030 So that's kind of what I do. 157 00:13:34.231 --> 00:13:37.753 Sounds like you've got a lot of things going on, a lot of full plate. 158 00:13:38.754 --> 00:13:41.535 Well, I

mean, I think they're trying to figure out what I'm really good at. 159 00:13:42.456 --> 00:13:43.497 They haven't figured it out yet. 160 00:13:43.537 --> 00:13:44.877 So they're trying different things with me. 161 00:13:45.838 --> 00:13:51.862 You're still there, Jacob? 162 00:13:51.882 --> 00:13:52.182 Jacob? 163 00:13:53.432 --> 00:13:55.214 Oh, sorry, I muted myself on accident. 164 00:13:56.235 --> 00:13:59.198 So everything you mentioned sounds very technical in nature. 165 00:13:59.238 --> 00:14:01.160 Everything is very IT focused. 166 00:14:01.641 --> 00:14:09.949 So I gotta ask, why do you care about millennials and why do you care about recruiting and retaining talent if so much of your role is focused on technology? 167 00:14:11.371 --> 00:14:12.892 Yeah, so that's interesting. 168 00:14:14.290 --> 00:14:21.133 I think most people think of talent and technology, they almost think of it as a commodity. 169 00:14:21.153 --> 00:14:27.536 You can think of talent as a commodity or you can think of talent as a treasure that you have to collect. 170 00:14:28.336 --> 00:14:32.318 I happen to think that in information technology, it's treasure hunting. 171 00:14:33.419 --> 00:14:38.881 It's not getting the best, lowest talent, best price and so on. 172 00:14:38.901 --> 00:14:39.722 It's not a commodity. 173 00:14:39.802 --> 00:14:40.822 It's clearly not a commodity. 174 00:14:42.110 --> 00:14:50.694 And if you don't believe that, go look at companies that have been formed in information technology, you know, and you'll find that one or two people created the company. 175 00:14:51.134 --> 00:14:55.135 Microsoft, a couple of people on MS-DOS is how it started. 176 00:14:55.756 --> 00:14:56.816 Apple, a couple of people. 177 00:14:57.716 --> 00:15:01.498 Juniper Networks, you know, one person perhaps or two people the most. 178 00:15:02.599 --> 00:15:04.219 Unix Computing, very few people. 179 00:15:04.959 --> 00:15:07.461 Linux, you know, probably one or two people. 180 00:15:07.881 --> 00:15:08.461 Lotus Notes. 181 00:15:08.810 --> 00:15:09.931 I can go on and on and on. 182 00:15:09.991 --> 00:15:16.215 Almost every bit of technology that's been created has not been this massive amount of people coming together. 183 00:15:16.395 --> 00:15:18.976 And that trend is continuing now with the startups as well. 184 00:15:19.016 --> 00:15:23.319 Most of it is small people starting with a big idea and going. 185 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:29.183 So the trick is not how can I get, you know, a thousand people at the lowest cost possible. 186 00:15:30.023 --> 00:15:34.366 It is how do I get the two people that everybody else seems to want, right? 187 00:15:34.851 --> 00:15:42.317 And a lot of CIOs and a lot of, you know, when I was a CIO of Honeywell and other kind of traditional companies, you always looked at, I got a lot of things to do. 188 00:15:42.377 --> 00:15:43.377 I got limited budget. 189 00:15:43.417 --> 00:15:52.144 So let me get my value for my money and let me, where are the places to go hunt for talent or, you know, in a mass and, you know, deliver the maximum results. 190 00:15:52.764 --> 00:15:57.448 And I think I had the wrong measure on, you know, cost per employee and the lowest cost locations. 191 00:15:57.468 --> 00:15:58.529 Should I go overseas? 192 00:15:59.129 --> 00:16:04.033 And some of these make this, forget that, you know, having thousand people, 193 00:16:04.713 --> 00:16:06.254 doesn't really mean anything. 194 00:16:06.454 --> 00:16:09.235 It's always a David and Goliath fight in information technology. 195 00:16:09.335 --> 00:16:10.515 You need those five people. 196 00:16:10.695 --> 00:16:16.938 So how do you get those five people or 10 people or 20 people that everybody else seems to want? 197 00:16:17.078 --> 00:16:20.879 And that's why talent is very interesting for me. 198 00:16:21.539 --> 00:16:24.080 And it started off with looking at millennials. 199 00:16:24.560 --> 00:16:28.062 Well, I have two millennials, kids who tell 200 00:16:29.263 --> 00:16:30.204 that I don't know anything. 201 00:16:30.224 --> 00:16:31.785 So that makes me an expert on millennials. 202 00:16:33.106 --> 00:16:33.726 Excellent. 203 00:16:33.947 --> 00:16:37.570 I actually raised two millennials and I suffer that consequences every day. 204 00:16:38.350 --> 00:16:40.252 You raise them, but they say you don't know anything. 205 00:16:40.292 --> 00:16:40.752 I love that. 206 00:16:40.812 --> 00:16:44.675 Well, and you know, initially I used to, and I think they may be right. 207 00:16:45.255 --> 00:16:46.516 So that's the sad part. 208 00:16:46.937 --> 00:16:48.218 It's more and more I think about it. 209 00:16:48.238 --> 00:16:50.640 I'm thinking they are, they think quite differently. 210 00:16:52.001 --> 00:16:57.425 And then the trick is I have a feeling that most of us, most of people of my generation, 211 00:16:58.058 --> 00:17:02.341 have to change a way of thinking to look at it from their standpoint, and it's not so wrong. 212 00:17:02.821 --> 00:17:14.009 And so the thinking, you know, the difference here is when I came into work, I would work for anybody, and I would work for anybody who pays me a salary. 213 00:17:14.029 --> 00:17:19.553 And there was also a sense of if you pay me more money, you know, I will do that, I want to get promoted. 214 00:17:19.693 --> 00:17:26.258 And the companies also had pension plans and 401K and the security, and you join them and stay with them for life, et cetera. 215 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.162 And I actually work for, you know, really not very good bosses. 216 00:17:31.602 --> 00:17:36.584 You know, I work for people who are, you know, who are pretty mean people to work for. 217 00:17:38.445 --> 00:17:41.826 But you kind of thought about those things as your learning opportunity. 218 00:17:41.846 --> 00:17:46.308 You know, what doesn't kill you makes you better is kind of the philosophy that we all grew up with. 219 00:17:47.448

--> 00:17:52.170 When you have a choice of places to go to, you know, you don't think that way. 220 00:17:52.210 --> 00:17:54.491 You want to say, how can I better myself? 221 00:17:54.551 --> 00:17:56.032 Where can I have the biggest impact? 222 00:17:56.750 --> 00:17:58.072 where can I change the world? 223 00:17:58.152 --> 00:18:02.557 And the change in the world, people really want to change the world, not just have a mission statement that does it. 224 00:18:03.158 --> 00:18:04.499 So that's what I'm finding out. 225 00:18:04.539 --> 00:18:10.146 Now, obviously, you know, there's a, people aren't, millennials are still looking for jobs. 226 00:18:10.727 --> 00:18:12.809 They are also looking for gainful employment and so on. 227 00:18:12.829 --> 00:18:15.753 But if they have all this, the very best are looking for more than, 228 00:18:17.078 --> 00:18:21.660 a place where they can play ping pong and get free food and so on. 229 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:23.281 They actually want to make a huge difference. 230 00:18:23.501 --> 00:18:23.721 What? 231 00:18:23.841 --> 00:18:24.481 That's crazy. 232 00:18:24.521 --> 00:18:27.602 I thought ping pong and free food is all we need for happiness. 233 00:18:29.163 --> 00:18:29.423 Yeah. 234 00:18:29.943 --> 00:18:30.543 Yeah. 235 00:18:30.944 --> 00:18:33.144 So that's how we start off. 236 00:18:33.164 --> 00:18:37.666 This is, I think, a superficial way of us looking at how do you get talent. 237 00:18:37.806 --> 00:18:38.907 And we have done this. 238 00:18:39.047 --> 00:18:40.147 I had done it in Honeywell. 239 00:18:40.227 --> 00:18:44.889 I painted the walls red, put green stuff, put a pool table, a ping pong, and had a happy 240 00:18:46.092 --> 00:18:47.332 And I thought my job was done. 241 00:18:47.373 --> 00:18:51.474 So this is how old people think how cool people should behave. 242 00:18:51.774 --> 00:18:54.975 So I want to go back to a couple of things that you mentioned. 243 00:18:55.055 --> 00:18:57.596 And I want to touch on the Honeywell thing that you said in just a minute. 244 00:18:57.616 --> 00:19:07.480 So the first thing I want to ask you is have you seen the role of the CIO change since being at Honeywell and Juniper and now VMware? 245 00:19:08.280 --> 00:19:14.323 Yeah, I mean, so look, the CIO role did not exist when I joined this profession, right? 246 00:19:14.383 --> 00:19:14.923 It's one of the, 247 00:19:15.942 --> 00:19:23.348 If you look back, information revolution or information technology revolution has happened in the last 30, 40 years. 248 00:19:23.768 --> 00:19:25.810 The industrial revolution took a long time to happen. 249 00:19:26.410 --> 00:19:34.376 So I actually believe that we actually don't know what the future roles in information technology is, CIO being one of them. 250 00:19:34.436 --> 00:19:38.880 So we have tried to figure out, initially, you find the smartest IT guy and you gave him 251 00:19:39.572 --> 00:19:41.873 a job to maintain all the computers and so on. 252 00:19:41.893 --> 00:19:48.495 And then the person got networking and then you had some email and then you have maybe the one financial closed system. 253 00:19:49.356 --> 00:19:54.298 And so in my career, you've seen this role change almost every year. 254 00:19:54.318 --> 00:19:58.779 And I think we're just starting and this role is changing tremendously now. 255 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:01.701 So they're looking for, and we've gone through cycles. 256 00:20:02.041 --> 00:20:08.003 You look for a CIO who was very business savvy and not too geeky so they can relate to our people. 257 00:20:08.523 --> 00:20:09.963 And then they found that that didn't work. 258 00:20:10.063 --> 00:20:13.464 So then they went to, I want technical guy who's also business savvy. 259 00:20:14.865 --> 00:20:25.547 And if you look at a few years ago, it was like my CIO is running projects that are way overspent and money's going down the money pit. 260 00:20:26.107 --> 00:20:28.388 And so they wanted good operations folks. 261 00:20:29.188 --> 00:20:30.608 Then you get good operations folks. 262 00:20:30.668 --> 00:20:36.790 And now CIOs are saying, hey, my CIO can keep the trains running on time, but that's not the kind of person I want. 263 00:20:38.527 --> 00:20:48.009 help us digitize the business and transform us to the future, have a vision about what is going to happen in the future and think through IoT and all those kind of things. 264 00:20:48.249 --> 00:20:51.770 So every year that I've been here, it's been a new job. 265 00:20:52.830 --> 00:21:04.212 And I think the trick is if you like that kind of environment where things get redefined and the bar gets taken up higher and higher and higher, it's a great ride. 266 00:21:04.866 --> 00:21:14.532 But some people would rather be in other functions, you know, and I'm not to badmouth or say anything about other functions, but there are some functions which haven't changed dramatically in the last 30 years. 267 00:21:14.892 --> 00:21:19.375 I mean, finance, for example, I mean, there are still gap laws and regulations. 268 00:21:19.415 --> 00:21:24.578 While there are a lot of changes, the whole role of a CFO hasn't nearly changed. 269 00:21:24.998 --> 00:21:28.080 It was very important, you know, 100 years ago, and it's very important now. 270 00:21:28.893 --> 00:21:31.260 Whereas the CIO role, I think, is just gaining importance. 271 00:21:31.300 --> 00:21:36.876 And I think if you look at next year, it'll be more important and more and more important as you go in the next 10 years, 20 years, I think. 272 00:21:38.862 --> 00:21:42.223 It sounds like there have been quite a few changes. 273 00:21:43.044 --> 00:21:48.946 And I didn't know that the CI role wasn't really in existence, you know, 20, 30 years ago. 274 00:21:49.046 --> 00:21:54.829 I think most people are under the impression that this is one of those roles that's been around for many, many years. 275 00:21:56.069 --> 00:21:58.110

No, I think we call them several things. 276 00:21:58.130 --> 00:22:04.253 You know, you call them chief engineer, you know, manager of IT, MIS leader, MIS director. 277 00:22:04.768 --> 00:22:15.252 And as the value of information technology got more and more and more to the companies, the value of the chief information officer also got higher and higher. 278 00:22:15.573 --> 00:22:18.934 And people are constantly looking for something else. 279 00:22:19.414 --> 00:22:23.916 So as we get better at rolling our ERP, people don't want ERP anymore. 280 00:22:24.156 --> 00:22:28.418 So they say yesterday's news wraps fish. 281 00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:30.480 That's kind of what this role is. 282 00:22:30.780 --> 00:22:32.761 Whatever you've done last year doesn't really matter. 283 00:22:33.001 --> 00:22:33.821 That's a great quote. 284 00:22:33.841 --> 00:22:35.142 Yesterday's news wraps fish. 285 00:22:35.362 --> 00:22:39.824 I'm absolutely going to borrow that quote when I have some conversations. 286 00:22:40.505 --> 00:22:41.445 But I think you're right. 287 00:22:41.585 --> 00:22:44.226 This role of IT has kind of evolved into the CIO. 288 00:22:44.246 --> 00:22:48.648 And now we're even talking about new roles being emerging chief digital officers. 289 00:22:48.688 --> 00:22:51.170 We have all sorts of new things that people are talking about today. 290 00:22:52.610 --> 00:23:01.752 Okay, so we talked about where this kind of CIO role came from, but you also seem to mention that you've seen some just broader organizational change during the course of your career. 291 00:23:02.392 --> 00:23:08.753 So in general, how have you seen the workplace change over the course of your career? 292 00:23:10.293 --> 00:23:17.034 Yeah, I think, you know, the technology changes have come in waves generally. 293 00:23:17.174 --> 00:23:21.255 And that's how I look at it is, you know, if you imagine, obviously, 294 00:23:21.722 --> 00:23:30.724 I lived a good part of my life in California and most of my life I grew up on the beaches on the coast and I love going to the beach. 295 00:23:30.744 --> 00:23:39.466 But if you watch how the surfers ride, there are some people who are waiting for the next big wave and they may wait the whole day waiting for that wave. 296 00:23:40.066 --> 00:23:43.026 And there are other people who jump on the first wave and get wiped out. 297 00:23:43.346 --> 00:23:45.367 So technology changes comes in waves. 298 00:23:45.947 --> 00:23:50.588 And I always tell my fellow IT professionals that you must ride the wave that is in front 299 00:23:51.684 --> 00:23:54.225 Don't keep looking forever for what is coming in the future. 300 00:23:54.525 --> 00:23:56.346 You will forget to ride the wave that is in front of you. 301 00:23:57.227 --> 00:23:59.948 So several waves of technology has happened. 302 00:24:00.088 --> 00:24:14.174 And like I mentioned to you, the first kind of technology where IT came into place was just, you know, people wanted to do number crunching and close the financial books, add up all the numbers, how much profit did we make, how much taxes should we pay. 303 00:24:14.574 --> 00:24:15.975 So they got a mainframe system to 304 00:24:16.586 --> 00:24:18.007 to do all the calculations. 305 00:24:18.027 --> 00:24:21.749 That's the origins of IT in workplace, if you will. 306 00:24:22.850 --> 00:24:36.358 And from that to go into running your factories and then running your personal computers, personal productivity, to mobile, to internet, all these have been massive changes that have come up and people have wrote this. 307 00:24:36.538 --> 00:24:40.701 So in my lifetime, what I've seen is some of these technology changes actually come back. 308 00:24:43.155 --> 00:24:48.619 You just talked about how the Chief Digitization Officer is a new title that people are talking about. 309 00:24:49.180 --> 00:24:56.004 My title when I took the job with Honeywell, this was in 2000, was VP of Digitization. 310 00:24:56.905 --> 00:25:02.509 I wish I kept my business card because I could now come and tell people that I have 16 years of digitization experience. 311 00:25:03.190 --> 00:25:04.811 But that's just what they hired me. 312 00:25:05.291 --> 00:25:09.835 Jack Welch in GE pushed a program called Digitization. 313 00:25:10.275 --> 00:25:11.816 And he said we should move from, 314 00:25:12.456 --> 00:25:25.406 you know, the bricks and mortars kind of company to clicks and mortars company and look at e-commerce, you know, and they were really had dreams of, you know, selling all jet engines and everything on the internet, perhaps, right? 315 00:25:25.446 --> 00:25:33.692 And they had this vision of how they're going to be Amazonized, if you will, or, you know, Dell was the innovator in supply chain and going direct. 316 00:25:33.732 --> 00:25:36.254 So all these things were digital in 2000. 317 00:25:37.615 --> 00:25:39.337 Then, you know, we, that kind of 318 00:25:40.459 --> 00:25:41.640 kind of gotten quiet. 319 00:25:41.700 --> 00:25:43.561 And we created Chief Digitization Officer. 320 00:25:43.661 --> 00:25:44.482 I was one of them. 321 00:25:44.742 --> 00:26:01.213 And then I ended up running all of IT for Honeywell because, you know, you cannot just have two or three different roles going in different tangents because, you know, you still have to, once the technology part is overcome, you still need people and process and you need to have change management. 322 00:26:01.253 --> 00:26:06.117 You need to work with the executive ranks to make it happen at a company scale. 323 00:26:06.317 --> 00:26:08.218 So at some stage, you got emerged 324 00:26:08.892 --> 00:26:12.435 It's interesting for me to hear this conversation about the Chief Digital Officer. 325 00:26:12.495 --> 00:26:15.758 And the reason that conversation is coming is what I told you before. 326 00:26:16.238 --> 00:26:18.540 The role changes. 327 00:26:19.501 --> 00:26:23.104 The first thing the CIOs

do is to make sure the trains run on time. 328 00:26:24.205 --> 00:26:31.251 But once the trains run on time, you quickly have to transform yourself into a strategy role. 329 00:26:31.611 --> 00:26:33.453 And taking the company to the next wave. 330 00:26:34.083 --> 00:26:46.447 People who are either not able to run the trains on time or not able to make the transition from running the trains on time to the digital strategy discussion get stuck. 331 00:26:47.027 --> 00:26:51.788 And then the CEO feels like, I need to hire somebody else to kind of push this train over. 332 00:26:52.329 --> 00:26:55.329 So what I have seen is these waves come and go. 333 00:26:55.770 --> 00:26:57.210 A lot of these waves come back. 334 00:26:57.830 --> 00:27:03.572 But the fundamental principle is you need to be on top of the next technology change and wave that is coming. 335 00:27:04.141 --> 00:27:05.862 And in order to do that, you need talent. 336 00:27:06.042 --> 00:27:10.386 So we come back to that again, is you cannot do this without people. 337 00:27:11.226 --> 00:27:12.988 All I'm saying is you don't need a lot of people, 338 00:27:13.941 --> 00:27:14.501 something. 339 00:27:14.521 --> 00:27:15.342 You gotta have the right ones. 340 00:27:16.482 --> 00:27:25.367 And now, I also want to jump back to what you said at Honeywell, where you thought that you painted the walls red, you put in some ping pong tables, and you thought your job was done. 341 00:27:25.887 --> 00:27:36.913 And I think a lot of organizations feel that way about millennials today, where they implement some kind of shiny new things, they give them free food, and all of a sudden their job is done, and they have this wonderful place for millennials to work. 342 00:27:37.694 --> 00:27:43.277 So maybe you can talk a little bit about some of the things that you did at Honeywell, why they didn't work, 343 00:27:43.857 --> 00:27:48.780 And maybe you can draw some parallels on what we're seeing today with organizations taking that same approach. 344 00:27:49.320 --> 00:27:49.820 Yeah. 345 00:27:50.181 --> 00:27:59.286 So in 2000, you know, if you've gone into that buildings, it looked like a traditional manufacturing or a Fortune 50 type of building. 346 00:27:59.326 --> 00:28:03.808 So now I wanted to attract millennials at that stage, you know, and I was a lot younger. 347 00:28:03.849 --> 00:28:05.690 I was probably a millennial myself. 348 00:28:05.730 --> 00:28:06.590 That was not the term. 349 00:28:06.890 --> 00:28:13.434 But, you know, but you need to hire people who could come in and think differently, reimagine and knew about. 350 00:28:13.841 --> 00:28:22.346 e-commerce and not just the folks who knew the mainframe systems or mid-range systems and people who are willing to challenge the establishment. 351 00:28:22.946 --> 00:28:34.393 It was tough for me to recruit those people saying, come on over to Honeywell, when Yahoo's and the companies in the West Coast was drawing every one of

them. 352 00:28:34.513 --> 00:28:43.458 It was very tough for me to attract the students from colleges in the East Coast or the West Coast to come and work for this older-fashioned company, if you will. 353 00:28:44.027 --> 00:28:52.330 So I took some risks and you could have gotten fired for this because the company has policies and procedures on how a building should be done. 354 00:28:52.730 --> 00:29:04.813 But we took one of the old labs that was run down and opened it up, completely redesigned it with multicolor walls and open cubes and Capuchino machines and so on. 355 00:29:04.873 --> 00:29:06.554 And it worked to a certain extent. 356 00:29:07.014 --> 00:29:13.196 We were able to hire a few folks who came to kind of challenge the status quo. 357 00:29:14.112 --> 00:29:15.712 The trick is not just that. 358 00:29:15.752 --> 00:29:19.033 The trick is when everybody starts doing it, how do you differentiate? 359 00:29:19.473 --> 00:29:26.275 And also after the initial thing is over, so initially people come and they like the cappuccino machine, you can drink as many coffees as you want, it looks cool. 360 00:29:27.315 --> 00:29:30.035 Then at a month later, you kind of say, what am I here for? 361 00:29:30.956 --> 00:29:34.576 The best ones clearly want to say, I want to learn a lot. 362 00:29:34.837 --> 00:29:36.417 I want to really change the world. 363 00:29:36.957 --> 00:29:38.417 They want to change the world. 364 00:29:38.717 --> 00:29:41.478 And if you just don't have the assignments to, 365 00:29:42.598 --> 00:29:48.140 capture their ambitions, they end up leaving or they end up settling, which is even worse. 366 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:55.942 So what my experience was is after the initial thrust, how do you keep that culture sustaining for innovation? 367 00:29:55.982 --> 00:29:57.763 That was very, very, very difficult. 368 00:29:57.923 --> 00:30:06.546 And people came in, sometimes did all the stuff and they said, the company, the antibodies of the company don't allow you to be innovative and running change. 369 00:30:07.006 --> 00:30:10.887 And they kind of had to settle in order to survive with the company. 370 00:30:13.296 --> 00:30:16.098 So that's the lesson learned is these tricks actually work. 371 00:30:16.698 --> 00:30:17.399 Hang on a minute. 372 00:30:17.419 --> 00:30:19.960 Let me just. 373 00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:26.925 These tricks actually work for a small period of time, but they create sustainable kind of culture and growth. 374 00:30:26.945 --> 00:30:28.546 You need more than that. 375 00:30:28.826 --> 00:30:30.607 So you need the trick won't work. 376 00:30:30.947 --> 00:30:33.289 And I think I'm finding the same thing here. 377 00:30:34.203 --> 00:30:34.763 free food. 378 00:30:35.503 --> 00:30:36.664 And my kids like it, right? 379 00:30:36.684 --> 00:30:40.205 They talk about it and say, hey, if I go to this, this company has a great cafeteria. 380 00:30:40.225 --> 00:30:41.165 They have coconut water. 381 00:30:41.185 --> 00:30:41.965 They have this and that. 382 00:30:42.005 --> 00:30:43.225 And everybody talks about that. 383 00:30:43.266 --> 00:30:43.846 It's all cool. 384 00:30:44.446 --> 00:30:50.007 But when they're actually going to work and they want to know, what am I actually doing? 385 00:30:50.047 --> 00:30:50.768 Am I going to learn? 386 00:30:51.048 --> 00:30:51.928 Am I going to progress? 387 00:30:52.048 --> 00:30:54.489 Are they actually going to support me? 388 00:30:54.549 --> 00:30:55.989 Are they going to let me go if I'm 389 00:30:56.752 --> 00:30:59.433 if the company doesn't do well. 390 00:30:59.573 --> 00:31:01.494 So a lot of questions being asked. 391 00:31:01.554 --> 00:31:08.716 And no wonder you're finding a lot of the millennials are looking at me incorporated. 392 00:31:09.676 --> 00:31:13.277 It's a different kind of company now than what the companies were when I joined. 393 00:31:13.297 --> 00:31:14.978 So people are looking and saying, what is it for me? 394 00:31:14.998 --> 00:31:16.178 Am I gonna learn and grow with you? 395 00:31:16.978 --> 00:31:20.660 Yeah, and I think the research is starting to show a lot of that as well, that 396 00:31:22.568 --> 00:31:24.769 Millennials care more about than just a paycheck. 397 00:31:24.789 --> 00:31:29.812 They care more about, you know, they don't just want these shiny things within the organization. 398 00:31:30.793 --> 00:31:35.635 So how do you think this is impacting the way organizations are thinking about recruiting talent? 399 00:31:36.256 --> 00:31:41.258 Do you think that most organizations are aware that they shouldn't just focus on these shiny things? 400 00:31:41.298 --> 00:31:43.099 Are you seeing any interesting strategies? 401 00:31:44.060 --> 00:31:45.541 Maybe some that VMware is taking. 402 00:31:45.561 --> 00:31:45.881 Yeah. 403 00:31:46.081 --> 00:31:49.802 Yeah, here's something that we have been trying and I have been pretty passionate about. 404 00:31:49.822 --> 00:31:50.622 It seems to work. 405 00:31:51.083 --> 00:31:54.264 I don't know if every company is doing it or not, but it sounds very simple. 406 00:31:55.084 --> 00:32:10.909 I have a feeling that my generation of folks would have worked for anybody and they all think or thought of it as an experience, even if you work for really bad managers and bad companies, which screwed up the environment or gouged the customers. 407 00:32:11.798 --> 00:32:13.819 or didn't really do anything other than make money. 408 00:32:13.879 --> 00:32:18.500 I mean, we kind of probably thought of it as a survival to work and so on. 409 00:32:18.860 --> 00:32:25.103 But the really good folks who are coming out want to work A for a good person, which is unusual. 410 00:32:25.163 --> 00:32:29.464 We never talk in management of, you know, is the person good or not? 411 00:32:29.724 --> 00:32:38.567 But you know, you talk to my, the people I talk to, I do a lot of reverse mentoring of millennials and you talk to

them and they, in their heart, they want to work for a good person. 412 00:32:39.808 --> 00:32:41.088 They don't want to work for an evil person. 413 00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:43.740 They want to work for a good company. 414 00:32:44.421 --> 00:32:46.461 They want to work for a company that does good. 415 00:32:47.421 --> 00:32:53.062 So, the more you, you know, first of all, you can't do much about doing, being good or bad. 416 00:32:53.362 --> 00:32:54.763 You know, you have to be authentic. 417 00:32:54.883 --> 00:33:00.644 Here's one if you're not a good person, I have a feeling you won't get good talent, even if you pay a lot of money. 418 00:33:01.504 --> 00:33:02.424 So, that's one. 419 00:33:02.464 --> 00:33:04.825 But then the company itself has to have some purpose. 420 00:33:05.665 --> 00:33:10.566 And things like social responsibilities, which are unfashionable to talk about, I talk about it a lot. 421 00:33:10.925 --> 00:33:15.647 in my all hands meeting, I talk about it during recruiting and you can see people light up. 422 00:33:16.528 --> 00:33:18.309 You have to be authentic, you can't fake it. 423 00:33:18.529 --> 00:33:23.351 So they wanna work for companies that do good things for the environment. 424 00:33:23.972 --> 00:33:26.153 They do good things for the world. 425 00:33:26.813 --> 00:33:36.038 They really use technology to solve some really meaningful problems and not just make the quarter. 426 00:33:36.518 --> 00:33:39.700 And all my training with the corporate world 427 00:33:40.406 --> 00:33:42.367 is make your quarter first, make your numbers. 428 00:33:42.447 --> 00:33:43.527 That's the most important thing. 429 00:33:44.188 --> 00:33:48.209 And of course, ethics and values and stuff, we all value all of that. 430 00:33:48.249 --> 00:33:53.331 And nobody wants to do something really bad or evil, but it's more than do no evil. 431 00:33:53.491 --> 00:33:56.032 A lot of companies say, don't do this and don't do bad things. 432 00:33:56.072 --> 00:33:59.754 But you have to come back positively, I believe, and say, no, do good. 433 00:34:00.434 --> 00:34:01.375 Do something really good. 434 00:34:01.915 --> 00:34:04.716 And doing what is just legal, 435 00:34:05.567 --> 00:34:06.748 alone is not good enough. 436 00:34:06.808 --> 00:34:11.873 You need to have to go about and beyond and do what is good and what is right. 437 00:34:12.394 --> 00:34:16.137 So old-fashioned as it sounds, but that is very attractive. 438 00:34:16.197 --> 00:34:20.501 And I have tested the theory a couple of times during my interviews. 439 00:34:20.561 --> 00:34:22.443 I've tested it with a lot of people that I speak. 440 00:34:22.483 --> 00:34:27.468 And you'll be surprised how many people come back after the meeting and say, that's the kind of company I want to work for. 441 00:34:28.055 --> 00:34:32.637 So what do you, you just talk about kind of a community involvement and sustainability. 442 00:34:32.697 --> 00:34:39.720 I know you guys have

some interesting programs around VMware for women, work in philanthropy that you guys are doing. 443 00:34:40.500 --> 00:34:51.445 So it sounds like during the interview process, you basically share how VMware is trying to make the world a better place and the millennials that you interview kind of grasp and attach to that. 444 00:34:52.086 --> 00:34:53.966 Yeah, but you have to do it with passion and conviction. 445 00:34:53.986 --> 00:34:57.208 I mean, if it looks like a sales job, these people are very smart. 446 00:34:57.288 --> 00:34:57.648 So yeah. 447 00:34:58.062 --> 00:35:01.903 I think authenticity is the first one, like I said, you need to have to actually believe that. 448 00:35:01.983 --> 00:35:08.184 If you don't believe it, every company has some programs and everybody can talk about the philanthropy programs. 449 00:35:08.224 --> 00:35:12.805 But I think first of all, the manager, I actually feel very strongly about it. 450 00:35:15.145 --> 00:35:25.027 I dedicated quite a bit of my time for this kind of work and my better half has actually quit a full-time job and she wants to work on nonprofits and so on. 451 00:35:25.595 --> 00:35:27.877 There has to be a commitment and passion. 452 00:35:27.937 --> 00:35:34.583 And the nice thing about VMware, as opposed to some of the other companies, is it's very grassroots-led. 453 00:35:34.723 --> 00:35:37.105 It's very democratized philanthropy. 454 00:35:37.145 --> 00:35:41.910 And what I mean by that is most companies kind of say, we want to support this program. 455 00:35:42.811 --> 00:35:49.857 And the CEO makes the call or the CFO or the CIO makes the call and commits $2 million, $3 million to this program. 456 00:35:50.570 --> 00:35:51.230 which is all good. 457 00:35:51.511 --> 00:35:55.793 I think people need to do whatever good possible in the world needs a lot of people doing a lot of good things. 458 00:35:55.813 --> 00:35:56.914 I'm not criticizing that. 459 00:35:57.234 --> 00:36:02.457 The problem with that is then it becomes just a PR campaign in most cases. 460 00:36:02.497 --> 00:36:12.723 People meet in Davos and talk about slavery or other human issues. 461 00:36:12.743 --> 00:36:15.645 All that is fine, but CEOs and CFOs and CIOs 462 00:36:16.167 --> 00:36:21.588 They get the press and the philanthropic organization have to align to get fundraising from those C-level executives. 463 00:36:22.248 --> 00:36:24.749 And what happens is the employees don't feel connected. 464 00:36:25.329 --> 00:36:27.549 They don't feel like, you know, I'm not really doing much. 465 00:36:27.569 --> 00:36:31.290 I'm glad my company is giving a million dollars to this good cause and the CEO is writing the check. 466 00:36:31.810 --> 00:36:33.350 But what is there for me to do? 467 00:36:33.970 --> 00:36:41.712 So I think the key is you have to get employees engaged so they feel like they are contributing to something more than just writing a check. 468 00:36:42.632 --> 00:36:52.975 And so I

believe me and Mary is kind of interesting that way is, you know, if I like a charity and I have passion for the charity, they will come and help me and support me in whatever way. 469 00:36:52.995 --> 00:36:56.457 So matching is one, but they have to give you a framework on how to support. 470 00:36:57.157 --> 00:36:59.518 But the champion has to be an individual employee. 471 00:37:00.318 --> 00:37:02.418 So that's kind of new. 472 00:37:02.478 --> 00:37:10.361 And for example, the things I like to do are things like there's a program called Year Up that I support personally, and that's a program which takes underprivileged children. 473 00:37:11.407 --> 00:37:18.690 and puts them through a finishing school, and people who are not able to graduate necessarily and have an engineering degree, we can still find jobs. 474 00:37:18.710 --> 00:37:23.692 So you will find in our help desk, for example, some of the students who graduated from Europe. 475 00:37:24.592 --> 00:37:33.416 There are Silicon Valley childhood advocates who you pretty much be a mentor and a supporter for underprivileged children right in Silicon Valley. 476 00:37:33.436 --> 00:37:40.619 And it's unconscionable for me to think that in a place that as rich as a Bay Area, there are a lot of children who don't have homes to go to 477 00:37:41.945 --> 00:37:46.187 So anyway, you have to pick this and you have to be able to talk personally about it. 478 00:37:46.947 --> 00:37:49.188 And I think people want to personalize this. 479 00:37:49.409 --> 00:37:52.590 It has to be your cause, you know, whatever Jacob Morgan wants to do. 480 00:37:53.430 --> 00:37:56.452 And you feel like you can make an impact and can the company help you. 481 00:37:56.672 --> 00:37:58.253 So I think that is pretty big. 482 00:37:58.933 --> 00:38:01.214 And it was very attractive with millennials. 483 00:38:01.714 --> 00:38:07.036 But the more and more I'm thinking about all this personally myself, I said, why do I not want to do that? 484 00:38:07.096 --> 00:38:10.398 You know, I'm not a millennial, but why don't I want to work for a good person? 485 00:38:10.667 --> 00:38:11.888 I want to work for a good company. 486 00:38:12.028 --> 00:38:13.029 I want to change the world. 487 00:38:13.749 --> 00:38:15.010 Why should it just be my children? 488 00:38:15.590 --> 00:38:20.394 So maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid, talking to like-minded people. 489 00:38:20.474 --> 00:38:28.860 But I feel like that this is a big thing for the companies is they have to tap into the sentiment of, you know, change the world for good. 490 00:38:29.420 --> 00:38:32.362 And the best talent will definitely come to you for that. 491 00:38:32.638 --> 00:38:38.364 I like that you also mentioned that it's not just about doing it for PR, it's about doing it because you're genuinely interested and passionate about it. 492 00:38:39.065 --> 00:38:47.315 And that probably also speaks to, you know, the interview process and who you have interviewing the millennials and how those conversations are going. 493 00:38:47.375 --> 00:38:53.421 Because if you just simply give them a piece of paper that says, oh, yeah, we do this for men, we do this for women, we do this for kids. 494 00:38:54.082 --> 00:38:55.463 it's kind of like, okay, that's great. 495 00:38:55.503 --> 00:39:03.067 But if you don't have that passion and that enthusiasm for what it is you're talking about, then it kind of really doesn't come across. 496 00:39:03.087 --> 00:39:10.510 So I think that's something that a lot of organizations should pay attention to when they have their executives sort of going in there and speaking with these millennials. 497 00:39:11.991 --> 00:39:14.513 Now, so that's how you recruit the millennials. 498 00:39:14.813 --> 00:39:18.094 How do you think differently about retaining millennials? 499 00:39:19.075 --> 00:39:20.616 I know there have been a lot of... 500 00:39:21.818 --> 00:39:30.802 conversations happening that say millennials are entitled, they just want to move up the ladder, they don't care about you, there's no loyalty, they're going to jump ship. 501 00:39:31.542 --> 00:39:40.046 I don't know if you agree with any of that, but I'd love to hear what you think about actually retaining and keeping millennials to work at your organization. 502 00:39:40.906 --> 00:39:44.968 Yeah, first of all, I think that perspective is very typical of us. 503 00:39:44.988 --> 00:39:49.150 When I say us, Jacob, I don't know how old you are, but I'm clearly not a millennial. 504 00:39:49.210 --> 00:39:50.230 And I'm looking and saying, 505 00:39:50.705 --> 00:39:53.067 It's a typical reaction is we don't understand them. 506 00:39:53.127 --> 00:39:54.308 So we tell them they are lazy. 507 00:39:54.368 --> 00:39:54.988 They don't want to work. 508 00:39:55.008 --> 00:39:56.349 They're not loyal, blah, blah, blah. 509 00:39:56.990 --> 00:40:00.972 Let me just explain how they are looking at it from their world, at least the ones I talked to. 510 00:40:01.993 --> 00:40:08.998 When I joined the workforce, unless I did something stupid, unless I was stealing or whatever, there was a security in the workforce. 511 00:40:09.098 --> 00:40:11.520 I get a 401k or I'll get the, 512 00:40:12.363 --> 00:40:19.007 a pension plan and people come back and talk about how they stayed at the company for 27 years, 30 years, and so on. 513 00:40:19.067 --> 00:40:24.870 So unless you really completely screw up, you had almost employment for life, right? 514 00:40:24.930 --> 00:40:28.551 And then, yes, it changes here and there, but largely that has been true. 515 00:40:29.292 --> 00:40:38.657 What happens now is if you look at a lot of millennials, and these are women and girls and boys who are graduating from top schools, they're not just losers, you know, 516 00:40:39.722 --> 00:40:48.107 They are really people who have put themselves through highly skilled, you know, and qualified folks and they get into

workforces. 517 00:40:48.788 --> 00:40:50.869 They don't feel like they have employment for life. 518 00:40:51.610 --> 00:40:58.674 They don't really, I mean, they've seen companies which kind of say, well, let's see how this quarter goes, hire people, terminate people and so on. 519 00:40:58.694 --> 00:41:00.816 I'm not criticizing the companies. 520 00:41:00.836 --> 00:41:04.298 That's kind of what we seem to do. 521 00:41:04.318 --> 00:41:05.999 Where do you expect them to react? 522 00:41:06.019 --> 00:41:07.180 You know, you want them to be loyal. 523 00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:07.780 You want them to give them. 524 00:41:08.023 --> 00:41:12.786 blood that they will never, ever, ever leave the company for no matter what somebody pays and how you treat them. 525 00:41:13.266 --> 00:41:16.168 But you will just hire and fire them at will. 526 00:41:16.208 --> 00:41:19.631 I mean, that seems to be unreasonable for us to kind of expect that. 527 00:41:19.651 --> 00:41:26.275 But that's an expectation that the corporation seems to have is we will do anything you want with you, but you better not be disloyal to me. 528 00:41:27.255 --> 00:41:28.536 So that's not quite true. 529 00:41:28.636 --> 00:41:31.598 And the second thing is, why are they jumping? 530 00:41:31.638 --> 00:41:34.080 Sometimes some people are jumping for money 531 00:41:35.086 --> 00:41:35.446 other things. 532 00:41:35.486 --> 00:41:38.528 But why are they jumping is they don't feel like they have a good manager. 533 00:41:38.948 --> 00:41:41.269 They don't feel like this person is good. 534 00:41:41.589 --> 00:41:42.950 There's no purpose in their lives. 535 00:41:43.370 --> 00:41:45.011 They don't feel like they're really changing the world. 536 00:41:45.531 --> 00:41:46.892 They don't feel like they're learning. 537 00:41:47.672 --> 00:41:58.437 And instead of looking internally and saying, how do you create an environment where you can have that people feel like they want to stay at work here forever, we immediately turn the tables on the millennials. 538 00:41:58.477 --> 00:42:02.219 So I haven't really found the millennials I have been interfacing 539 00:42:05.327 --> 00:42:07.788 or anything than what I have. 540 00:42:09.068 --> 00:42:14.149 And some of this is my, you know, like I'm sure, my dad always told me how he went to school with no shoes on and so on. 541 00:42:14.169 --> 00:42:19.710 So that is continuing now where we believe that we had had tougher lives than what they had. 542 00:42:20.030 --> 00:42:27.752 Well, it's funny you mention that because my family was born in the Republic of Georgia in the former USSR, and they would tell me very similar stories. 543 00:42:28.312 --> 00:42:31.012 And I went back there for the first time in 2014. 544 00:42:31.072 --> 00:42:33.073 It's actually where I proposed to my now wife. 545 00:42:33.913 --> 00:42:38.917 And I actually saw firsthand how they lived and how they survived. 546 00:42:39.417 --> 00:42:40.658 And it's true. 547 00:42:40.698 --> 00:42:44.421 I mean, they lived in buildings that today would be considered condemned. 548 00:42:44.481 --> 00:42:52.286 They had four people that lived in a room the size of a tool shed, which actually is a tool shed now when we went to go visit. 549 00:42:53.788 --> 00:42:57.670 So you hear about these things and you don't believe it until you actually see it. 550 00:42:57.710 --> 00:42:59.272 So once I saw it, I was like, okay – 551 00:43:00.032 --> 00:43:01.673 This isn't just something that they were saying. 552 00:43:02.133 --> 00:43:03.694 This is really how it was. 553 00:43:04.234 --> 00:43:05.475 No, it's all true. 554 00:43:05.555 --> 00:43:18.023 I mean, you know, so all I'm saying is it doesn't make you less of a person because you had the fortune to live in a house, not like your parents and so on. 555 00:43:18.043 --> 00:43:21.364 So I think sometimes we make a judgment on I went through that. 556 00:43:21.705 --> 00:43:23.145 My generation is better than yours. 557 00:43:23.326 --> 00:43:24.046 Yeah, yeah. 558 00:43:25.070 --> 00:43:28.671 And you don't realize how much tension and pressure that the millennials have. 559 00:43:28.691 --> 00:43:37.273 I mean, so again, a good person I know joined a company startup, highly qualified person, has a master's female. 560 00:43:37.293 --> 00:43:42.215 And we say we're looking for STEM educated women engineers, women engineers. 561 00:43:42.255 --> 00:43:45.836 And I know women engineers who haven't been employed, right, from great schools. 562 00:43:46.416 --> 00:43:50.457 So this lady, if you continue the story, worked for a startup, looked all good. 563 00:43:50.931 --> 00:43:54.612 First day they go and they have coconut water, they have free food, everything else. 564 00:43:55.192 --> 00:43:59.234 Then three months into it, they find that the breakfast is stopped. 565 00:44:00.054 --> 00:44:05.255 And then some of the vending machines don't have the better drinks. 566 00:44:05.876 --> 00:44:10.197 And then they get somebody to do cost-cutting and then they lay off the HR person who hired them. 567 00:44:10.237 --> 00:44:11.637 Then they lay off the finance person. 568 00:44:11.697 --> 00:44:13.758 So she's looking around and saying. 569 00:44:14.955 --> 00:44:16.456 When is Bullard coming to me? 570 00:44:16.536 --> 00:44:23.118 And she did get terminated or laid off a few weeks ago after the first eight months of the job. 571 00:44:23.738 --> 00:44:25.079 I'm not saying it's good or bad. 572 00:44:25.299 --> 00:44:27.260 Look at what it does to the psyche of the person. 573 00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:34.442 I joked and I said, hey, you are very smart, you're very young, and you're going to get another job in no time, which is absolutely true. 574 00:44:34.482 --> 00:44:36.963 She's going to get hired in no time. 575 00:44:37.403 --> 00:44:42.225 But she came back to me and said, hey, the thing that you kind of poo-poo is the anxiety that I go through. 576

00:44:42.943 --> 00:44:45.485 going to a workplace and finding out when is my turn next? 577 00:44:45.785 --> 00:44:50.828 How do you expect me to concentrate and produce my best when I'm looking around and saying, you know, is it my turn? 578 00:44:50.948 --> 00:44:52.949 And the rumors flying around on who's leaving. 579 00:44:53.489 --> 00:45:04.696 So there's a lot of anxiety and a lot of pressure on the millennials that sometimes, you know, we don't pay attention to because then I go back to, I came from India, I had nothing in my pocket. 580 00:45:04.716 --> 00:45:11.480 You know how hard I worked and you guys have had it made, had it easy and you got somebody to do this for education. 581 00:45:11.836 --> 00:45:13.276 You have the entitlement mentality. 582 00:45:13.316 --> 00:45:14.216 You can say all that. 583 00:45:15.297 --> 00:45:16.657 It doesn't really solve anything. 584 00:45:17.437 --> 00:45:18.477 You've got to move forward. 585 00:45:18.677 --> 00:45:20.517 You have to acknowledge that there is anxiety. 586 00:45:21.058 --> 00:45:23.898 There are folks that who are working through different changes. 587 00:45:24.298 --> 00:45:29.279 And the rate of change, especially in information technology, is so exponential. 588 00:45:29.799 --> 00:45:38.641 So for, we don't even understand how much pressure there is these days to cope up with the rapid change in information technology. 589 00:45:38.961 --> 00:45:41.181 It was not like a job you did 30 years ago 590 00:45:42.107 --> 00:45:46.630 where the pace of change, you know, you could kind of adapt to the pace of change. 591 00:45:47.170 --> 00:45:53.413 If I take a vacation for one week and come back, there are completely new terms that I don't know anything about. 592 00:45:54.014 --> 00:46:11.243 So anyway, my point is there is more good to be achieved if we don't classify necessarily millennials as this or that and kind of look at them and say what is going on in their minds and what would make it attractive for them to work. 593 00:46:11.810 --> 00:46:19.393 And don't get me wrong, unless we have some of the older generation of folks and the millennials work together, you cannot be competitive. 594 00:46:19.433 --> 00:46:22.835 You know, some companies just, you know, actually do reverse discrimination. 595 00:46:22.855 --> 00:46:26.356 They don't have any older folks or experienced folks. 596 00:46:26.877 --> 00:46:31.379 And they hire only these, you know, folks from college and so on. 597 00:46:31.399 --> 00:46:34.420 It looks cool and looks almost like a college campus and so on. 598 00:46:35.120 --> 00:46:36.261 But that is being short-sighted. 599 00:46:36.301 --> 00:46:38.462 That's not how your customer-consumer base is. 600 00:46:38.522 --> 00:46:39.382 That doesn't represent. 601 00:46:39.900 --> 00:46:40.920 what the rest of the world is. 602 00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:47.703 So I honestly believe you need a good blending and you need to do some mentoring both ways. 603 00:46:47.763 --> 00:46:52.784 You know, I think that the people, I mentor a lot of people, but I learn a lot from them. 604 00:46:52.804 --> 00:46:54.105 So I call it reverse mentoring. 605 00:46:54.125 --> 00:46:57.686 I learn a lot more from my mentoring sessions than they perhaps learn from me. 606 00:46:58.854 --> 00:47:00.656 What is it like to work at VMware? 607 00:47:01.336 --> 00:47:09.343 Do you guys have some programs that you, and I looked on Glassdoor and you guys have around four stars on there, which is fantastic, especially for such a large company. 608 00:47:10.104 --> 00:47:13.347 And you have a very high percentage of people that recommend your CEO. 609 00:47:13.928 --> 00:47:18.151 And so clearly you're doing some interesting things at VMware to attract and retain top talent. 610 00:47:18.812 --> 00:47:20.754 Do you guys have a lot of millennials there? 611 00:47:20.794 --> 00:47:25.438 I mean, what are some of the programs that you offer internally just in general as, as the workplace goes? 612 00:47:25.922 --> 00:47:28.063 Yeah, so what is it to work here? 613 00:47:28.123 --> 00:47:30.684 First of all, the CEO is a good guy. 614 00:47:30.864 --> 00:47:34.725 He's extremely smart and he's got a resume a mile long. 615 00:47:35.326 --> 00:47:38.327 But the first thing you really want to know is he's a good guy. 616 00:47:38.347 --> 00:47:43.169 That's how I'm looking at it and that's how people would look at him. 617 00:47:43.569 --> 00:47:44.529 And he's a good guy. 618 00:47:44.789 --> 00:47:47.410 I have no reservations about saying that. 619 00:47:47.430 --> 00:47:50.251 That is 80% of what is required, I think. 620 00:47:50.632 --> 00:47:53.233 He's also extremely bright and he's got a reputation, resume and all 621 00:47:54.569 --> 00:47:55.330 But that's the first one. 622 00:47:55.350 --> 00:48:03.536 The second is the leadership style is very casual, meaning it's not hierarchical. 623 00:48:03.556 --> 00:48:16.426 If you go to all hands meetings and things that we have, it's surprising how people from the lowest levels, if you say, would ask questions that, you know, I would have never dreamed of asking in my earlier companies. 624 00:48:16.727 --> 00:48:17.928 People are pretty approachable. 625 00:48:18.108 --> 00:48:19.989 So that's actually helps quite a bit. 626 00:48:21.771 --> 00:48:23.372 We have extremely smart people. 627 00:48:24.277 --> 00:48:34.120 And it's very addictive to actually go in and have, engage in a conversation with people who are extremely smart, but I wouldn't say everybody, but most of them are humble as well. 628 00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:38.181 So it's good to come in. 629 00:48:38.201 --> 00:48:40.542 First of all, it's great to be in Silicon Valley where you come back. 630 00:48:40.562 --> 00:48:47.064 If you're an information technology, especially, you know, you are in the heart of where everything is happening, working with a lot of bright folks. 631 00:48:47.324 --> 00:48:53.006 If

you're VMware, it's a microcosm of the, you know, Silicon Valley is right in the heart 632 00:48:54.269 --> 00:48:58.592 And I enjoy the conversation we have with them on future state of technology and so on. 633 00:48:58.953 --> 00:49:00.454 So that's the one we have. 634 00:49:00.814 --> 00:49:01.955 The campus is beautiful. 635 00:49:02.495 --> 00:49:05.137 It is nice to work in a place that is good. 636 00:49:05.498 --> 00:49:14.044 And some companies actually believe that they should have an ugly campus and a kind of hostile work environment so that they can show how tough they are. 637 00:49:14.864 --> 00:49:16.326 No, you want to work in a good place. 638 00:49:16.766 --> 00:49:21.049 You want to work in a good place which is comfortable, conducive to learning, etc. 639 00:49:21.089 --> 00:49:22.270 So when you walk into our 640 00:49:22.815 --> 00:49:24.376 campus, you'll have a lot of trees. 641 00:49:24.496 --> 00:49:27.198 It looks like you're taking a walk in the park, in the forest. 642 00:49:27.699 --> 00:49:31.902 It's, you know, we call it more of a classical style. 643 00:49:32.042 --> 00:49:36.225 It's kind of timeless, elegance rather than some cool colors and so on. 644 00:49:37.046 --> 00:49:41.830 And it feels like you're walking into Stanford University or one of those colleges that you want to go to learn. 645 00:49:41.970 --> 00:49:44.152 So I think that's pretty important. 646 00:49:44.172 --> 00:49:45.733 The workplace you work is pretty good. 647 00:49:47.074 --> 00:49:49.776 And it has a lot of, like I said, a lot of programs that support 648 00:49:51.171 --> 00:49:51.692 Inclusion. 649 00:49:51.812 --> 00:50:01.378 So, you know, we want to have anybody from anywhere in the world of any race, gender, you know, and diversity of thought, et cetera, work here. 650 00:50:02.218 --> 00:50:04.680 And you will see that as you walk on the campuses. 651 00:50:04.940 --> 00:50:06.761 And we're pretty, very global. 652 00:50:06.801 --> 00:50:08.963 So those are some of the things that we do. 653 00:50:10.163 --> 00:50:11.945 The addiction is the addiction. 654 00:50:11.985 --> 00:50:13.846 I think people want to work with that. 655 00:50:14.006 --> 00:50:18.169 There's always the internal talk within VMware would be, we should be innovating more. 656 00:50:18.269 --> 00:50:19.349 We should be changing more. 657 00:50:19.429 --> 00:50:20.290 So there's almost like a 658 00:50:21.270 --> 00:50:24.272 I wouldn't call it frustration is the wrong term. 659 00:50:24.792 --> 00:50:29.214 People definitely want us to do more of more creative, more innovation, more growth. 660 00:50:29.915 --> 00:50:35.458 And it's very addictive to be in an environment where people are not sitting on their laurels and not happy. 661 00:50:36.285 --> 00:50:39.046 But VMware is a global company. 662 00:50:39.166 --> 00:50:41.948 So clearly, you know, it's not just Silicon Valley. 663 00:50:41.968 --> 00:50:45.430 You guys are also, you know, you have millennials in other parts of the world. 664 00:50:46.190 --> 00:50:53.614 Are you noticing differences between things or millennials in Silicon Valley versus other parts of the world and how you're kind of attracting and retaining them? 665 00:50:54.554 --> 00:50:59.657 You know, the way I look at it, there is global culture and there are global differences. 666 00:50:59.777 --> 00:51:02.678 And, you know, I have lived in several places in the world and you have to respect that. 667 00:51:02.698 --> 00:51:06.000 And actually, you have to like it and enjoy it. 668 00:51:06.565 --> 00:51:11.248 that diversity, you know, and find that unity and diversity kind of a concept, you know. 669 00:51:11.648 --> 00:51:12.208 So that's true. 670 00:51:12.248 --> 00:51:15.710 So you can't paint a single thing globally. 671 00:51:16.371 --> 00:51:22.754 But corporate values and corporate culture always, you know, trumps the individual differences. 672 00:51:23.074 --> 00:51:33.300 So I think you should still, the way we, the glues that unites the VMware employees is kind of a corporate culture, you know, what the company stands for. 673 00:51:34.060 --> 00:51:39.681 I haven't really found, I mean, I spend a lot of time in Bangalore, India, you can't be just on the other side of the world. 674 00:51:40.602 --> 00:51:42.982 And I talk about exactly the same things. 675 00:51:43.082 --> 00:51:50.164 I talk about how we should do more to support the local community, how we should have more passion in what we do, how we should support innovation. 676 00:51:50.624 --> 00:51:56.346 So it actually, to me, just being authentic and talking the same worldwide is easy. 677 00:51:56.606 --> 00:51:59.346 So I don't have to prepare for different countries on what to do with VMware. 678 00:51:59.726 --> 00:52:02.007 Secondly, that seems to resonate extremely well. 679 00:52:02.720 --> 00:52:10.922 The company attracts the kind of individuals, regardless of where you're from, who kind of want those value systems, I believe. 680 00:52:12.322 --> 00:52:22.485 So I wouldn't call myself an expert on that, but I generally feel like the same messages that I talk in my all hands meeting here seems to work well. 681 00:52:22.625 --> 00:52:26.966 And after the meeting, people come back and say, yeah, we want to do this. 682 00:52:26.986 --> 00:52:27.926 We want to do more. 683 00:52:28.486 --> 00:52:31.847 So I think the corporate culture and corporate passion. 684 00:52:32.551 --> 00:52:35.652 kind of is the glue that ties it together. 685 00:52:36.093 --> 00:52:38.054 And people, I think, will make a self-selection. 686 00:52:38.294 --> 00:52:44.397 You know, folks who do not want to do that kind of work won't come for us, won't come into working for the event. 687 00:52:45.137 --> 00:52:48.478 So it's not like there are huge differences between different parts of the world. 688 00:52:48.979 --> 00:52:56.682 It sounds like the message and the attitudes that millennials have are

pretty similar in different parts of the world. 689 00:52:57.423 --> 00:52:59.884 Yeah, look at the millennials. 690 00:52:59.924 --> 00:53:00.944 They are all connecting. 691 00:53:00.964 --> 00:53:02.145 I mean, what do they do? 692 00:53:02.997 --> 00:53:03.757 how do they connect? 693 00:53:04.457 --> 00:53:07.298 They're all mobile phone ready. 694 00:53:07.338 --> 00:53:11.979 They're all using WhatsApp and other kind of to communicate worldwide. 695 00:53:12.059 --> 00:53:22.380 They communicate on Twitter, they communicate on LinkedIn, Facebook as it is required and they have their highly strong opinions of whether Facebook was good or bad. 696 00:53:23.201 --> 00:53:30.062 So I mean, globally where I go, it's not like the only guys in the Bay Area know about Snapchat and other kind of stuff. 697 00:53:30.182 --> 00:53:31.242 Anywhere I go in the world, I'm 698 00:53:31.653 --> 00:53:41.198 Even people who do not speak English seem to know all about all the tools that are being created in information technology and a lot of it in Silicon Valley. 699 00:53:41.598 --> 00:53:45.820 So I honestly haven't seen a big difference at all. 700 00:53:46.701 --> 00:53:53.004 But you have to be sensitive that there are some cultural nuances and there are certain things like, you know what, Costa Rica is a place we have. 701 00:53:54.064 --> 00:54:00.788 One of the things I talk about, Costa Rica is very, very friendly towards, you know, it's very eco-friendly. 702 00:54:01.398 --> 00:54:04.880 I mean, they're very proud of the forest that they have, the tropical forest that they have. 703 00:54:04.900 --> 00:54:11.184 They're very proud of preserving the country, the greenness, and the nature of Costa Rica. 704 00:54:11.665 --> 00:54:21.091 So when you go to them, I do talk about, do you know that every VMware virtualization machine that we put in place replaces a server? 705 00:54:21.111 --> 00:54:28.476 If you count the number of servers and virtual machines we have helped create, a number of servers that we have not. 706 00:54:29.189 --> 00:54:33.111 we've been able to display physical servers, which are sucking up electricity and heat. 707 00:54:34.172 --> 00:54:35.652 That could create a whole new forest. 708 00:54:36.553 --> 00:54:43.636 That message, they like hearing that message a little bit more, but it's not any different than what I say anywhere else. 709 00:54:43.857 --> 00:54:49.299 Some countries will have more on women's issues. 710 00:54:49.319 --> 00:54:56.523 Some countries will have more on green and some people will have more on 711 00:54:57.348 --> 00:55:10.250 different kinds of charities, whether it's children or whatever, but the general message of do good, don't do any, you know, do more than just not do evil, seems to make sense to a lot of millennials. 712 00:55:11.390 --> 00:55:18.772 What advice do you have for executives, for managers at organizations that are trying to attract and retain millennials? 713 00:55:18.832 --> 00:55:22.292 Are there any things that they can do or things they should be thinking about? 714 00:55:23.333 --> 00:55:25.953 Okay, so the first part is pretty black and white is, 715 00:55:26.707 --> 00:55:30.750 First part is you have to be a good person and you have to be authentic. 716 00:55:31.051 --> 00:55:34.353 And if you're not, you know, it's black and white. 717 00:55:34.433 --> 00:55:38.397 You know, you can, you can, I don't think you can fake it till you make it in this, right? 718 00:55:38.417 --> 00:55:41.239 So the first thing is hopefully you're good and you're authentic. 719 00:55:41.339 --> 00:55:43.120 And then you got 50% of the battle won. 720 00:55:43.521 --> 00:55:50.747 And if you're not that, you need to find somebody else to advise you, you know, how to get those traits ingrained, right? 721 00:55:50.787 --> 00:55:52.348 Because, you know, 722 00:55:53.932 --> 00:55:59.194 If you're not good at it, then you're trying to fake it, then you're not authentic. 723 00:55:59.555 --> 00:56:01.195 So those two are pretty important. 724 00:56:01.215 --> 00:56:03.396 That part of it is pretty absolutely black and white in my book. 725 00:56:03.856 --> 00:56:16.061 The rest of them, what I tell people is engage with the millennials and then talk to them about, you think about how your company needs to also deliver numbers and profits. 726 00:56:16.081 --> 00:56:18.542 We have shareholders and we have quarters to make. 727 00:56:19.722 --> 00:56:24.743 things that we don't like at some stage, retrenchment, all this stuff that comes with a modern company. 728 00:56:25.203 --> 00:56:25.683 We do that. 729 00:56:25.723 --> 00:56:30.504 But don't forget to not talk about the good things that the company does. 730 00:56:30.584 --> 00:56:31.664 Engage them to do it. 731 00:56:33.925 --> 00:56:38.026 Most millennials are not afraid of technology. 732 00:56:38.186 --> 00:56:39.746 So talk about future states. 733 00:56:40.086 --> 00:56:42.587 So you want to talk about Internet of Things and so on. 734 00:56:42.627 --> 00:56:49.368 People are highly motivated about vision of the future and how much you can do better 735 00:56:50.168 --> 00:56:51.149 good through technology. 736 00:56:51.169 --> 00:56:57.512 So talk about innovation, talk about future state of technology, but get them engaged. 737 00:56:57.572 --> 00:57:04.136 I think employee engagement, there's stats that alarming amount of employees are not engaged. 738 00:57:04.476 --> 00:57:12.781 Only 31% of the employees are actually engaged, which means they show up to work, but their mind and heart is not in there. 739 00:57:12.801 --> 00:57:17.784 So here you can get 31% productivity, and it looks to engage. 740 00:57:18.490 --> 00:57:19.531 So that's what I would do. 741 00:57:19.571 --> 00:57:29.039 And the other one is, you know, you need to have a, instead of having this divide on millennials versus the other generation, you need to figure out ways to bridge it. 742

00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:43.831 And I call it reverse mentoring, is make sure that there's mentoring sessions set up where it's not just the older generation telling the millennials how they should behave or how they could benefit, but learn a little bit about, you know, how they think, what they do. 743 00:57:43.851 --> 00:57:46.794 And I actually find it extremely exciting 744 00:57:47.782 --> 00:57:49.825 When somebody looks at me and says, you don't know anything. 745 00:57:51.206 --> 00:57:53.910 And so please teach me. 746 00:57:54.490 --> 00:57:55.111 I'm trying to learn. 747 00:57:57.274 --> 00:57:59.136 I think that's great advice for people. 748 00:57:59.517 --> 00:58:00.718 What advice would you have for... 749 00:58:01.882 --> 00:58:14.489 Millennials, so the younger people in the workforce that maybe are struggling with finding these types of organizations that have that anxiety where they don't know how long they're going to be there. 750 00:58:14.529 --> 00:58:18.031 I mean, is there anything they can do or something they should be thinking about? 751 00:58:18.652 --> 00:58:24.015 Yeah, I think they can learn a little bit about from the others. 752 00:58:24.055 --> 00:58:27.777 First of all, the millennials, I'm asking them the power of networking. 753 00:58:28.029 --> 00:58:29.910 You know, I think it's huge. 754 00:58:30.190 --> 00:58:32.170 And these days it's so easy to network. 755 00:58:33.151 --> 00:58:37.992 You know, Silicon Valley, we talked about how we run into people all the time in coffee houses and so on. 756 00:58:38.472 --> 00:58:46.334 But I think millennials should think of career as an end goal forever and ever and ever. 757 00:58:46.394 --> 00:58:51.456 So they should be thinking about not just saying, can I talk to this person and then get a job there? 758 00:58:51.938 --> 00:59:00.966 but I would recommend them to say, think about your end state as you want to meet with as many interesting people as possible and have as many interesting conversations as you can in life. 759 00:59:02.147 --> 00:59:09.753 And also do as many good things that you can because it does come back. 760 00:59:09.973 --> 00:59:11.134 The connections do come back. 761 00:59:11.514 --> 00:59:15.598 The way networking works, especially in a technology kind of a world is, 762 00:59:17.541 --> 00:59:22.484 You can be a giver of ideas, you can be a giver of connection of people, and people remember you. 763 00:59:22.644 --> 00:59:24.685 So make as many connections as you can. 764 00:59:25.646 --> 00:59:29.668 Go out, don't just do social networking, which is very good. 765 00:59:29.688 --> 00:59:33.471 You should do a lot of social networking, but actually do the old-fashioned physical networking. 766 00:59:34.111 --> 00:59:40.074 And the more people you know, the better chances of you doing better in your career. 767 00:59:40.094 --> 00:59:41.075 So that's one thing I do. 768 00:59:41.155 --> 00:59:42.756 I mean, I ask them to find a mentor.

769 00:59:43.499 --> 00:59:54.408 It will be surprising how intellectually so smart people, people who got straight forwards from the top universities and so on, are emotionally completely vacant. 770 00:59:54.508 --> 01:00:00.492 So they can't relate to people, they can't manage other millennials, they can't manage senior folks. 771 01:00:01.133 --> 01:00:05.896 So I tell them to build this emotional quotient. 772 01:00:05.916 --> 01:00:11.160 Sometimes when you're so focused on your life, just getting your intellectual capacities further. 773 01:00:12.519 --> 01:00:13.399 not become balanced. 774 01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:15.380 So that's one I do. 775 01:00:15.420 --> 01:00:19.062 And then I also say, life is short, even if you're a millennial. 776 01:00:19.883 --> 01:00:22.084 So make the choices. 777 01:00:22.144 --> 01:00:25.645 Go work for companies that really resonate with you in the value system. 778 01:00:25.685 --> 01:00:27.066 So it's okay. 779 01:00:27.646 --> 01:00:33.489 So I would say be very critical and pick only those companies you believe are going to help you learn. 780 01:00:33.929 --> 01:00:40.092 I mean, it's okay to work a few jobs that may not pay as well as some other jobs, but you learn a lot more skills. 781 01:00:40.112 --> 01:00:41.993 So I would put a lot of emphasis on learning 782 01:00:43.468 --> 01:00:46.789 joining companies that support, you know, lifelong learning. 783 01:00:47.429 --> 01:00:51.550 What do you think is going to happen to organizations that don't pay attention to this? 784 01:00:51.610 --> 01:01:03.533 So organizations that still continue to focus just on ping pong tables and on free food and organizations that don't really grasp moving beyond this kind of shiny object syndrome. 785 01:01:04.053 --> 01:01:06.014 What do you think their fate is going to look like? 786 01:01:07.454 --> 01:01:09.995 So I actually when I look, these are 787 01:01:10.525 --> 01:01:20.333 So companies, corporations, they take a long time to actually die, if you will. 788 01:01:20.393 --> 01:01:20.573 Right. 789 01:01:20.613 --> 01:01:28.519 So you may look at a company that has the long buildings and they have all the stuff and just imagine that it's got to be forever and ever and ever. 790 01:01:29.580 --> 01:01:32.382 But, you know, I almost see these. 791 01:01:32.482 --> 01:01:34.564 So you could mistake it and say, you know, we are fine. 792 01:01:34.584 --> 01:01:36.025 We don't do all this and we're doing fine. 793 01:01:36.545 --> 01:01:38.947 That arrogance is going to get the companies eventually. 794 01:01:38.967 --> 01:01:39.868 It may not be tomorrow. 795 01:01:40.117 --> 01:01:53.461 But companies who don't get that, companies who don't say that there's something new going on, some companies who don't make it inclusive for both ways, for millennials and the experience generation to work together. 796 01:01:53.661 --> 01:01:59.603 So I've seen companies which go exclusively millennials and millennials and almost exclude the experienced professionals. 797 01:01:59.623 --> 01:02:03.965 I've seen companies that can terminate experienced professionals so they could hire more millennials. 798 01:02:04.565 --> 01:02:05.285 All those are wrong. 799 01:02:05.790 --> 01:02:11.172 and companies have to figure out that people are going to live long and people are going to work for a long time in companies. 800 01:02:11.192 --> 01:02:14.394 So you have to figure out how to get the experienced folks to work and add value. 801 01:02:15.234 --> 01:02:22.537 So I think companies who don't get that kind of a mindset are in trouble, but they may not be in trouble tomorrow. 802 01:02:22.637 --> 01:02:25.039 It may be two, three years to do. 803 01:02:25.319 --> 01:02:32.802 And if you don't have a place that you get the brightest and the most innovative folks to come and work for you, 804 01:02:33.702 --> 01:02:45.309 I think you're going to be disintermediated because every industry, there's very few industries that are not going to be dismantled by information technology specifically. 805 01:02:46.129 --> 01:02:58.857 So if you don't get those kind of folks to come and work and you don't reimagine your processes, I would imagine a lot of the large industries we have forever are just living dead, if you will. 806 01:02:59.997 --> 01:03:01.358 But that's just my point of view. 807 01:03:01.378 --> 01:03:02.278 It may not seem this way. 808 01:03:02.358 --> 01:03:09.100 And the funny part is most people in those organizations probably cannot imagine their companies not existing. 809 01:03:09.680 --> 01:03:21.084 But IT is always about change and people who are putting in change pretty quickly and who are willing to set up an environment of innovation. 810 01:03:21.284 --> 01:03:23.805 And companies who don't do it, I think, won't survive. 811 01:03:26.080 --> 01:03:27.440 And I completely agree with you. 812 01:03:27.660 --> 01:03:31.481 It's something that I have been telling organizations for a while. 813 01:03:31.521 --> 01:03:34.202 They're just going to have a hard time attracting and retaining top talent. 814 01:03:35.222 --> 01:03:37.422 Well, I know we've been talking for around an hour now. 815 01:03:37.522 --> 01:03:42.043 So do you have any last parting words of wisdom to people that are listening to the podcast? 816 01:03:43.024 --> 01:03:43.884 Yeah, please. 817 01:03:43.964 --> 01:03:48.865 You know, since you asked me for a point of view, I gave a point of view. 818 01:03:48.905 --> 01:03:49.605 I may be wrong. 819 01:03:50.085 --> 01:03:54.586 So I want your readers to, you know, actually engage and teach me and tell me where, 820 01:03:55.603 --> 01:03:57.323 you know, my point of view is wrong. 821 01:03:57.443 --> 01:03:58.524 I want to have a discussion. 822 01:03:58.824 --> 01:04:03.565 So sometimes when you do a podcast, you may come across as a know-it-all and here's a guy who's seen the world. 823 01:04:03.905 --> 01:04:04.465 Far from it.

824 01:04:04.545 --> 01:04:05.965 I'm trying to figure it out myself. 825 01:04:07.085 --> 01:04:13.967 So I want your readers and your listeners to come and give us some context so I can learn. 826 01:04:14.767 --> 01:04:15.567 I love that approach. 827 01:04:16.167 --> 01:04:20.928 All right, so now I have a couple of just fun rapid fire questions about you so that people can get to know who you are. 828 01:04:22.269 --> 01:04:24.189 First one, what was your favorite TV show as a kid? 829 01:04:25.796 --> 01:04:27.417 A Star Trek, unfortunately. 830 01:04:27.477 --> 01:04:28.638 I fit into the stereotype. 831 01:04:30.620 --> 01:04:32.481 What's an embarrassing moment you've had at work? 832 01:04:34.983 --> 01:04:39.087 So I was, I think I played the guitar extremely well, at least in my mind. 833 01:04:39.127 --> 01:04:46.193 And one of those events in my work, these guys actually asked me to join on a stage in a band and play. 834 01:04:46.233 --> 01:04:47.974 And my God, it was awful. 835 01:04:51.550 --> 01:04:52.650 It was that bad? 836 01:04:53.050 --> 01:04:53.771 It was really bad. 837 01:04:53.791 --> 01:04:58.832 I mean, when I play the guitar by myself at home, I think I'm better than Eric Clapton in my mind. 838 01:05:00.533 --> 01:05:05.554 Then you get on stage and I said, oh my God, I'm glad I have my day job. 839 01:05:06.194 --> 01:05:09.975 Well, hopefully Eric Clapton is not listening to this, otherwise he might come over to your house. 840 01:05:09.995 --> 01:05:11.196 Well, he's not as good as I am. 841 01:05:11.296 --> 01:05:12.416 Ask him about cloud computing. 842 01:05:13.276 --> 01:05:15.517 Exactly. 843 01:05:15.757 --> 01:05:19.418 If you were trapped on an island and could only eat one food for the rest of your life, what would it be? 844 01:05:22.343 --> 01:05:45.123 probably pizza oh good choice excellent choice what is a nickname that you think your employees know you by it's a good one let me take the two of that I mean I 845 01:05:46.557 --> 01:05:49.138 Do they talk about you behind your back, throw out any names? 846 01:05:49.618 --> 01:05:51.419 It's a big nickname. 847 01:05:51.439 --> 01:05:56.182 They think of somebody who says the most inappropriate thing at the appropriate time. 848 01:05:56.202 --> 01:05:57.602 But that's too big for a nickname. 849 01:05:57.742 --> 01:06:02.104 I've been told that I say the most inappropriate thing at the most appropriate time. 850 01:06:02.545 --> 01:06:03.585 Yeah. 851 01:06:04.145 --> 01:06:05.206 I suppose that's a compliment. 852 01:06:06.527 --> 01:06:07.627 I don't know. 853 01:06:07.788 --> 01:06:09.568 I always have this backhanded compliment. 854 01:06:09.588 --> 01:06:13.890 So I have to meditate and think about it for months before I know if they're actually crazy. 855 01:06:15.150 --> 01:06:17.251 What's your favorite non-Apple product? 856 01:06:19.592 --> 01:06:20.012 Tesla. 857 01:06:20.832 --> 01:06:22.593 OK, yeah, I've had a couple of people say that one. 858 01:06:23.393 --> 01:06:26.934 And last question for you, what is the best piece of advice you've ever received? 859 01:06:29.935 --> 01:06:31.356 Don't take too many advice. 860 01:06:31.896 --> 01:06:34.477 I don't think anybody really knows how to run your life. 861 01:06:35.816 --> 01:06:38.018 Oh, a little bit of a contrarian viewpoint there. 862 01:06:38.058 --> 01:06:38.478 I like it. 863 01:06:38.618 --> 01:06:39.018 I like it. 864 01:06:40.059 --> 01:06:43.781 Well, Bask, where can people go to learn more about you, VMware? 865 01:06:44.602 --> 01:06:47.763 I know that you have, obviously, a LinkedIn account. 866 01:06:48.004 --> 01:06:49.925 I don't remember if you're active on Twitter or not. 867 01:06:50.065 --> 01:06:52.166 I am. 868 01:06:52.246 --> 01:06:55.488 I mean, I think it's Baskire is the Twitter handle. 869 01:06:55.568 --> 01:06:56.769 So I'm active on Twitter. 870 01:06:56.829 --> 01:06:57.829 I'm active on LinkedIn. 871 01:06:58.970 --> 01:07:02.312 My email is biir at VMware.com. 872 01:07:03.353 --> 01:07:03.673 So... 873 01:07:04.450 --> 01:07:05.371 I am there socially. 874 01:07:05.431 --> 01:07:10.134 It's just I have a day job as well, so I can't spend a lot of time on Twitter, but I'm there. 875 01:07:10.234 --> 01:07:15.298 So most people, most contacts I get through LinkedIn or Twitter or through my email. 876 01:07:15.418 --> 01:07:18.941 Or buy me a good cup of coffee, you know, very rarely I've turned down. 877 01:07:19.541 --> 01:07:20.322 There you go. 878 01:07:20.402 --> 01:07:21.082 That's what I'm going to do. 879 01:07:21.102 --> 01:07:21.703 That's my plan. 880 01:07:21.763 --> 01:07:22.443 Yeah, yeah. 881 01:07:23.564 --> 01:07:25.946 Well, Basque, thank you very much for taking time out of your day. 882 01:07:25.966 --> 01:07:29.088 I know you're a very busy guy, so thanks for coming and chatting with me today. 883 01:07:30.014 --> 01:07:30.674 Sounds good, Jacob. 884 01:07:30.694 --> 01:07:31.375 Thanks for having me. 885 01:07:31.395 --> 01:07:31.895 I appreciate it. 886 01:07:32.095 --> 01:07:32.876 Yeah, my pleasure. 887 01:07:32.896 --> 01:07:36.197 And thanks, everyone, for tuning into this week's episode of the Future of Work podcast. 888 01:07:36.237 --> 01:07:40.139 My guest has been Basque Iyer, who's the Chief Information Officer at VMware. 889 01:07:40.500 --> 01:07:43.661 We'll see you next time on an episode of the Future of Work podcast. 890 01:07:44.722 --> 01:07:46.923 Thanks for tuning into the Future of Work podcast. 891 01:07:47.083 --> 01:07:54.107 If you want to learn more, you can visit my website, thefutureorganization.com, or check out the FOW community. 892 01:07:54.287 --> 01:07:56.648 That's FOWcommunity.com. 893 01:07:57.048 --> 01:07:57.889 I'll see you in the future.