บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Innovation in Action with David Carroll

00:04:49.120 I joined the department shortly after it began uh in July of 2022. 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:54.879 I started in uh January of 2023, so about six months after the department started. 00:04:55.279 --> 00:05:03.759 We we have a simple mission uh to keep kids out of the juvenile justice system and to reduce the harm for the young people that are already in the system. 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:06.399 The way we do that is through aid prevention. 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:10.480 Let's keep them out of negative contact with law enforcement in the first place. 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:26.399 For young people who come into contact with law enforcement, we have diversion, which gives a second chance to a young person to heal, to go through a restorative justice program that addresses the root causes of why they were engaged or why they may have been uh stopped by police. 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:31.519 And upon completion, uh that program uh makes that incident go away. 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:35.360 So it doesn't follow them or hinder them uh for the rest of their lives. 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:44.480 It also prevents harmful things like booking and court and detainment, which we know can have a profound negative effect on young people. 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:49.120 And lastly, uh we work with young people uh who are in a crisis. 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:56.000 They are living in the facilities, in the carceral settings because of uh something that they were engaged in. 00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:00.240 We work with those young people through community-based partners in those facilities. 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:18.959 We try to bring down the climate, provide services that they want and need, and most importantly, connect them to services in the community so that when they return home, they will be happy, healthy, adjusted folks that will not have that future contact with law enforcement and not go back into uh a facility. 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:20.399 So that's who we are. 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:25.360 Um, happy to share a little bit more about my journey uh if you'd like. 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:40.240 Yeah, because part of this whole podcast and our what we've been talking about, David, is how we bring our experiences to the work and our values and how these things sometimes we have to navigate the limits of what these structures can offer. 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:45.120 And yet we're trying to really tap into the notion of you hold true to your values, right? 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:51.040 And so it's important to know who you are and the values you bring to it as we have this conversation together. 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:52.160 Thank you so much. 00:06:52.399 --> 00:07:02.240 So um my journey was certainly a long and winding road uh with detours and probably a couple of accidents, you know, along the way. 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:12.720 Fortunately, you know, I'm here with you today uh based on lots of uh caring adults along the way that actually, you know, really facilitated my growth uh and my well-being. 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:16.959 So I was born into the foster care system uh shortly after birth. 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:22.800 Uh, I was uh placed in a foster home where I remained for the first couple of years of my life. 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:28.319 Uh, and then I was adopted by very kind, um slightly older parents. 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:34.240 Um unfortunately, my adoptive father passed away uh just a year or two after I was adopted. 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:44.800 So, you know, here I am, you know, a young person with an older mom living in an urban community where there was lots of opportunities to get into trouble. 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:49.040 And I probably took as many of those opportunities as I as I could. 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:58.000 But along the way, you know, fortunately, every time something happened, uh there was an adult that said, Hey, you know, why don't you join this baseball team? 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:02.079 Or, you know, why don't I introduce you to this mentoring organization? 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:05.120 And as time went on, those programs expanded. 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:11.680 Every high school that I went to, the college I attended, uh, lots of workforce programs, internships. 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:18.560 It was really a village that came together uh to provide the resources that I needed to grow. 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:24.480 And without those resources, I know that that I would not be in the position that I am today. 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:27.199 So that always was in the back of my mind, right? 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:28.639 As I went through all these programs. 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:33.840 Of course, they said, you know, get a job in corporate America, make a lot of money, come back, support your community. 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:41.279 So I you know, graduated from college, got the corporate job, but always felt drawn uh to the community that that raised me. 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:47.919 So I was coaching, I was mentoring, uh, but I wasn't quite ready to dive into nonprofit work, right? 00:08:48.000 --> 00:09:02.480 I was, you know, making you know a salary that I was enjoying at the time, you know, for a person in their in their mid-20s and going into the early 30s until um I was carjacked by uh two young people, you know, gun to the side of the head. 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:09.840 And ironically, what I was thinking about was what was going to happen to those young people once this incident ended. 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:13.200 And I got out of it, you know, relatively unhurt. 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:18.399 Uh, unfortunately, those young people were engaged in several incidents similar to that. 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:20.799 Uh, they ended up incarcerated. 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:26.799 And I knew that unless I became part of the solution, I would be a part of the problem. 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:30.000 So that incident happened on a on a Tuesday. 00:09:30.240 -->

00:10:02.240 On that Friday, I uh I quit my corporate job and took a part-time job working at the YMCA, uh, working with uh with young people in an after-school setting, continued to work uh in nonprofit, went back to school and got a master's degree in nonprofit management, um, and started um in middle to senior level leadership uh within community-serving organizations, mostly working with uh young black and brown boys specifically, uh trying to provide resources to them. 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:08.080 So uh since that time, I've been you know so fortunate and so blessed to expand my reach. 00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:12.639 You know, originally when I got into this field, I wanted to help one kid, right? 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:21.679 If I could keep one kid out of jail or or out of the morgue, right, I would have felt that I was successful in my efforts. 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:36.080 And the fact that, you know, that has now just just exploded exponentially into being able to serve the two million young people that are in LA County is just an incredibly humbling opportunity. 00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:37.759 That's beautiful. 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:39.360 I I appreciate the story. 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:47.200 I think we've we've talked before about when you work with young people, and I d I really do believe it's a vocation, it is a calling. 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:52.080 Um, like you said, oftentimes you're taking a pay cut to do work that feels deeply meaningful. 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:54.480 We're gonna change all that because we're changing the future world. 00:10:54.559 --> 00:11:00.799 And we do believe the jobs that really are rooted in love and care for people should be, will be the top-paying jobs. 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:02.720 So we're gonna work towards that future. 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:26.879 But love the idea of I think any great advocate for young people is somebody who themselves has had the experience of if somebody had given me this, or if someone had taught me that, or I appreciate the hands that help build, you know, what I was working towards, the concept of the village, as you stated, um, just really appreciate that and how it brings you into the current moment. 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:31.120 I think the journey is one that is anchored in shared values. 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:50.639 And we've, you know, talk a lot about that, and we've talked, you know, all of us in our work, the importance of kind of centering those shared values and making sure that we're doing for young people that what we would want for our children and for their children and the generations to come, and that that that love is what um centers kind of our approach to these things. 00:11:52.159 --> 00:12:02.240 I would love to ask a little bit more about the idea of the youth justice reimagined as kind of like maybe the starting point and what went all into that. 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:20.639 And so the story's not lost on me that as David represents somebody who

went through these various aspects of community and the role that community played in youth justice reimagined, I actually think is a really important part of why we see it as such a creative and innovative response to a broken system. 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:26.639 Oftentimes, like when we're in the world of work or bureaucracy, it's really hard to go from A to Z. 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:28.080 Sometimes it's impossible. 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:31.759 Like there are actual steps that you have to take in order to get there. 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:41.600 Oftentimes, I think what we hear around the country is when there's an acceleration of progress, it's usually because community is rooted and centered at the table. 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:54.559 And so just thought it would be great to hear, and maybe Shaka, you could start us off talking a little bit about the beginning of that, the birth of Youth Justice Reimagined as that kind of spark plug that moved on to DYD and where we are today. 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:55.519 Absolutely. 00:12:55.600 --> 00:13:00.879 You know, we um we had been in partnership with Los Angeles for a long time, organizations there. 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:07.679 We worked with the probation department and had not seen them as a serious partner in the work as a whole. 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:14.080 There would be individuals who would be really trying to push, but as a unit, it was pretty much immovable. 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:15.440 We were not seeing progress. 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:33.519 So in late 2019, when they reached out to us to see if we'd be interested in facilitating this, our founder, James Bell, the you know who recently passed a year ago, um he and I had a conversation about it because he was like, Do you think these folk are serious? 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:39.279 Like, is this just a charade there or do you think they're really serious about trying to come up with something different? 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:43.360 And we had to, you know, really sit together and talk. 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:51.840 And I'm like, Yeah, look at how much of momentum has been built in this place where nobody, no experts predicted that anything like this was possible. 00:13:52.159 --> 00:14:07.759 With the amount of investment and just story after story of just terrible situations happening to young people, their families, there was just no sense that, oh yeah, LA is gonna just pivot and become a place that folk will look to as an example. 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:20.720 And so when we got started, much of this kind of work usually was done by folk who had a lot of experience in justice, had experience in government, were policy experts, usually a lot older. 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:30.240 And our approach has been to partner with the community and co-designing the facilitation of the experience, the process itself. 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:33.200 So for us, the innovation started there. 00:14:33.759 --> 00:15:04.080 So they said we want to work with you, and we came up with a list of community leaders who had been working on these issues, who had been in the trenches, who knew deeply what the contours of LA were like, and we dedicated a huge chunk of our contract to bringing in local partners, which for us is innovative in the work because you we don't we don't believe you this work can be done without those deep-rooted local connections, and there's limits on everybody's roles. 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:16.559 So we've got community members who are working in government, community-minded leaders who we partnered with in the CEO's office, um, who were you know deeply helpful in shaping the process. 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:25.279 And then we had a whole team of community members who throughout just really helped shape and innovate how we literally held these meetings. 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:30.159 And the meetings were with, I think the first meeting was 250, 220 people. 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:40.080 It was huge groups of people of all walks of life, some who have wildly different views about what should occur and what the outcome should look like. 00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:44.639 And so we had to be really innovative and creative about the process itself. 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:51.600 Plus, there was a real strict timeline that we needed to try to stick to to get all of this done in this window of opportunity. 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:56.559 And so I think for us, that was a huge part of it, and it remained a part of it. 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:20.320 It's this balance between, you know, you have your government partners, you have your the professionals who have, you know, real decision-making authority in the system, and then you have these community leaders who are also powerful because they can do the things that your government partners can't always do, and they can make pressure where folk it's not really appropriate to be pushing your colleagues in these ways. 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:35.840 And so um, as the Burns Institute, you know, we've done this work kind of innovating to bring these two worlds together and and often compare it to like an orchestra, you know, you have instruments that make sounds that you're like, how can this all come together? 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:42.799 And yet you can't make that beautiful melody without all of those diverse instruments that make up the orchestra. 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:45.679 And so we really innovated on that. 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:54.080 I think that was a huge part of the process of developing the vision and being able to hold all those different perspectives. 00:16:54.240 --> 00:17:02.960 I mean, the first meeting it was like you had people who were just diabolically opposed in terms of viewpoints, and they all stayed engaged. 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:09.039 Um we were able to build relationships and and center young people and community voice. 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:15.039 Each meeting started off with artistic expression, some kind of

poetry or spoken word. 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:22.559 All of those things you know spoke to the values that people really had in mind for what this was supposed to be. 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:28.160 And it was the other side of it, is like all of our visions don't all align. 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:39.599 And we had some serious debates and straight-up disagreements, and sometimes we had to tell people to calm it down because they felt really passionately about this. 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:50.160 I do think that's something really important to highlight, especially right now, it feels like the just the appreciation and the celebration of having so many diverse perspectives in the room. 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.319 And David, I'm so curious you for you too. 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.319 Shock and I always say the diversity of the team is what makes the brilliance. 00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:58.480 It's also the most difficult to manage. 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:02.480 And as a leader of an organization like yours, I'm curious. 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:12.240 I'm sure you are constantly having um, you know, both stakeholder meetings, engagement, your own team, folks with really rich and diverse perspectives. 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:17.839 And uh, while I'm sure you appreciate the beauty of that, I'm I'm sure it also presents its own challenges. 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:21.839 So just love to hear your perspective on what Shaka just shared. 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:31.200 Yeah, I was writing some notes down for myself and and smiling, uh, thinking back to that first meeting where there were a couple hundred people in this room. 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:36.799 Uh, and like you said, they were just completely uh, you know, polar opposition, right? 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:38.079 You know, within the room. 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:41.440 And I remember thinking to myself, first of all, why the hell am I here? 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:41.920 Right? 00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:44.000 This is never gonna work, right? 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:46.559 And second of all, where's the nearest exit? 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:51.440 So when the riot starts, I can figure out how to make my way to the door. 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:53.759 And then and then Shaka came on. 00:18:53.839 --> 00:19:04.400 Um, and I don't even know if I've ever uh told you this, Shaka, but you know, I was blown away, you know, with with your facilitation and and the way that you engaged with the people in that room. 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:12.160 I remember going home and being like, I met this dude today, and he was talking about a different way that you know we can you know treat young people in LA County. 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:18.000 And, you know, I was I was really inspired and thought that something could could come of that amazing work. 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:22.960 And I really appreciated, you know, oftentimes the table is small, right? 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:35.279 Um, you know, you've got you're preaching to the choir, you've got the organizers, and it's a group of organizers that all have the same shared opinion, or you've got law enforcement and it's only law enforcement there, and they only have the same shared opinion. 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:43.279 And in this case, it was truly a mix across just about every category that you can that you can imagine. 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:47.759 So I don't think this would have worked without all those diverse voices. 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:57.119 Um, I don't think we'd be where we are if we had not given space and air uh in the room for for folks to share what their experiences were. 00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:10.240 And you know, oftentimes you hear from probation or from law enforcement that they got into this because they were a young person that had challenges growing up, and this was the way that they thought that they could could support their community and give back. 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:22.960 And we have to acknowledge that even if the system doesn't do what we want it to do for young people, there are individuals within that system that truly care uh about the young people that they serve. 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.240 So uh my department is a melting pot. 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:33.759 We have everything from ex-organizers to ex-law enforcement uh that that work for us. 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:38.079 Again, you know, sometimes you know, we have to to clear the room, right? 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:51.680 And have you know individual two-on-two conversations because the the commonality is that everyone that works for DYD is committed to the success of young people and to them thriving, right? 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.279 Um and I say that in every interview, um, in every conversation. 00:20:55.440 --> 00:21:07.839 I don't care if it's an accountant, an attorney, or a person that is supporting programs, every person in DYD has to be dedicated to the mission, or else they will not be successful in this role. 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:12.000 Again, because it is innovative, we are doing things in a different kind of way. 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:15.279 I heard community in Shaka's description. 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:19.519 Everything that we do is in partnership with community. 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:25.039 First of all, we don't provide any direct services, we support the organizations that provide those services. 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:34.640 We think that community-based organizations that are the closest to the young people already trusted are the best ones to be to be providing those services. 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:36.559 So everything is through community. 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:45.359 We have a lot of community input and leadership as we initiate new programs, as we evaluate existing programs. 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:50.720 We look to the community to let us know what's working, what's not working, and what we can change. 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:59.759 So we really do uh view it as a shared power between

county government and the community, which again is at the best interest. 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.440 Of the communities that we serve and specifically the young people. 00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:15.279 That I believe is at this, it's like the cornerstone of where we're trying to go is balancing the sharing of power and this real deep partnership. 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:21.839 And I'm just curious, I mean, as you're kind of out there making the road by walking as a county agency, right? 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:37.039 And what are what are you seeing as the challenges with all of that work you just described and balancing, you know, sharing of power and being in your role and yet being a person who is directly impacted by this whole thing and is deeply committed to it. 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:42.240 You know, talk a little bit about how you navigate the push and pull that comes with all of that. 00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:43.440 Yeah, it's complex. 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:49.200 I mean, it is, you know, if it was easy work, then, you know, somebody would have done it a long, a long time ago. 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:52.400 You know, at the end of the day, we're public servants, right? 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:56.559 You know, we work for county government that is funded with taxpayer dollars. 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.799 We have to be very responsible with the way that we use our resources. 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:04.799 We have to be um very detailed in the records that we keep. 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:18.880 Sometimes that's not the easiest thing for a four or five-person nonprofit to be to be able to keep the kind of records that are necessary for us to be able to reimburse them for services that they provided, um, as well as to justify. 00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:20.400 We know it's working, right? 00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:23.680 And philanthropy will often accept that, right? 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:28.720 And the and the anecdotal stories uh for the county, for any governmental agency. 00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:32.960 It comes down to the detailed records uh that people have to keep. 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:34.880 So sometimes that's a challenge. 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:49.920 We've been very fortunate that we have cornerstone organizations that can oftentimes support those smaller orgs that don't necessarily have the internal infrastructure for record keeping, data evaluation, things like that. 00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:56.000 Likewise, you know, community, if you want them to come to the table, you've got to value their time, right? 00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:58.000 And you've got to understand where they're coming from. 00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:01.920 They may not have transportation uh to that particular convening. 00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:05.200 They may not have you know enough money for food. 00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:07.200 So you want to make sure that you feed them. 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.640 And their time is just as valuable as any of ours. 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:16.160 So we need to make sure that we compensate them uh when they come to these types of engagements. 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:24.319 County government does not have a mechanism to pay folks uh that are not approved contractors. 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:42.000 Again, we've been able to work around that through some of our philanthropic partners that are willing to provide resources uh to support participants, as well as again, some of those cornerstone organizations that we work with that really help us to do things that typical county government uh can't do. 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:46.000 And then lastly, you know, grounding in the mission of what we do. 00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:49.599 Training and professional development are extremely important. 00:24:49.839 --> 00:25:03.440 Um, and we have had the opportunity as a department uh to visit legacy sites, right, that really encapsulate the the uh slavery to prison, you know, kind of progression throughout history. 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:20.960 Um we've been able to go to various art exhibits that that show the effects of systemic racism and when monuments are removed, you know, Confederate flags are torn down, the positive effect that that has on the the, especially the minority populations in those areas. 00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:24.400 But government can't necessarily pay for that, right? 00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:39.440 Again, we've been extremely fortunate that we've got philanthropic partners that have allowed us to use those dollars to take our staff, to ground them in the work, so that when they come back, they truly understand why we do what we do. 00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:40.799 It's powerful. 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:59.920 And I I've had the privilege of actually helping and debrief one of those trips with the team and hearing from each staff member about how profound the experience was and how much it blew their mind that as a county employee they were being educated in this way in such a thoughtful and deep way. 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:08.559 And so, again, that's why, like speaking, you know, zooming out to this notion of future on deck in this ideal future we're trying to build. 00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:11.599 This is exactly for us an example of that, right? 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:14.400 Where it's like, yes, this is important history. 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:21.440 We're gonna go and have this experience together, and then we're gonna try to live our values, and we're gonna hold to the fact that we're a county agency. 00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:29.039 We have to do some certain things a certain way, which is a part, I think, of the complexities that come into this future building that we're trying to do. 00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:31.759 Is similarly, like we're trying to build an ecosystem. 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.039 I love how you name that some of the groups help the littler groups. 00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:39.039 It's like the large trees in the forest help all the rest of the plants.

00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:46.960 There's a there's a a flow that we're trying to establish with this project that feels very aligned with where we've been trying to go. 00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:52.240 Yeah, and then I, you know, I think we should probably add that everyone doesn't agree with what we're doing, right? 00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:55.519 So, you know, that's certainly one of the challenges that we have. 00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:00.079 You know, systems um tend to try to protect themselves, right? 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:06.559 Um, and while we are about systems change, of course, there is the opposite effect, right? 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:08.000 You know, the push and pull. 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:24.240 So, you know, we are continually, you know, trying to change opinions, change perspectives with data, with anecdotal stories, with hearing about the success of young people who have gone through these programs and being able to see it and reduce recidivism. 00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:31.759 But again, you know, we are constantly uh pushing against a system that has been in place for hundreds of years, right? 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:35.119 And trying to change that uh with the work that we do. 00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:40.480 So of course that's that's an ongoing challenge, uh, and it probably will be forever, right? 00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:53.519 Yeah, when we think about what you all are doing and how the level of influence that you're having is, I think, probably both creating opportunities and challenges for DYD uh in particular. 00:27:53.680 --> 00:28:23.839 I'm curious about, we've talked in the past, David, about how sometimes as people, our own fear of loss or losing something, that we may support the innovation of a new idea, but sometimes worry that, oh, if I do this too differently, what happens for my job, what happens in my area, what happens in my department, and that kind of protective factor could become a real barrier for being able to lean into creating new structures and new systems that are centered in community the way that we've been talking about. 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:45.839 I'm curious when I think about um DYD and some of the other things that we've seen, like startups or new organizations standing up in community that may not all be a county agency, some may be a nonprofit, some may be a hybrid, intermediaries, all the things that we're seeing, it's almost as if we that I love the analogy, Shaki, you gave of the trees, like the bigger trees helping the smaller trees. 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:47.759 I see all these sprouts, right? 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:53.599 This kind of garden starting to sprout up of these new innovative practices and approaches. 00:28:53.839 --> 00:29:02.720 And in that, I think uh, you know, you hope, as I'll say for me personally, I hope it spreads like like, you know, like a weed, but a beautiful weed. 00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:05.119 All right, all right. 00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:20.480 But I imagine that um part of what we see just from a national perspective is when that new thing that has this great energy around it, that is has the credibility of community within it, oftentimes begins to get stretched. 00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:24.559 It becomes the place that people will come to and say, oh, hey, hey, could you also do this? 00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:26.559 Oh, oh wait, there's an emergent need. 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:29.440 Let's go to the can you do this and can you do this? 00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:38.880 And um, as wonderful as that is, that folks want to see something grow and grow, sometimes it can stretch you maybe in a difficult direction. 00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:41.759 And so just wondering how have you felt that? 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:43.759 How has that presented for you? 00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:48.000 Maybe just how you how you're kind of working around some of those things. 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:57.759 Yeah, I mean, at first I want to acknowledge the incredible opportunity that we have to be working in the spaces that we work as a county department, right? 00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:05.200 Because for the longest it has been community-based organizations kind of solely, but not really at the table. 00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:23.039 You know, uh DYD is at the table, the various department heads for every county department come together on a regular basis, and our voice is just as loud and respected as the voice of the fire chief or the medical examiner or the director of public health, et cetera, right? 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:33.119 So we are extremely fortunate and we can achieve so much more being at the table than we could without, you know, having having this department. 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:36.160 Um, with that being said, um we are small, right? 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:42.720 You know, in comparison to other departments, you know, um some departments have over a billion dollar budget. 00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:50.480 Um, and while$100 million, which is our budget, uh, may sound like a lot, it pales in comparison to a billion, right? 00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:53.920 Or several billion uh in some of the other departments. 00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:58.720 And because our work is innovative and we're nimble, Sam, you're exactly accurate. 00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:07.759 We've been asked to do other work outside of the juvenile justice system that feels like a stretch, but it's also important to us. 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:15.039 A prime example would be working with young people in the child welfare system, specifically exiting the child welfare system. 00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:22.799 We know that there is a strong correlation between the child welfare system and the juvenile justice system. 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:30.079 Just about every kid that's in a facility has had at least one or more contact with the with the child welfare system. 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:54.960 So while we can't change necessarily that system, again, it's a massive organization, we can

work with specific populations within that system, either to prevent them uh from going into the child welfare system or to assist them as they transition out to make sure they have the resources that they need to move forward into young adulthood. 00:31:55.119 --> 00:32:15.920 So there are spaces and places where we can be a value add, but certainly we have to be careful uh not to say yes all the time as to stretch ourselves uh too thin and to pull us away from again our core mission while we were created, uh, which was to keep young people out of the system and to protect those who are already in it. 00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:18.720 Absolutely appreciate that. 00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:27.279 And just thinking about in the the side for folks that aren't as familiar, because the the numbers do sound astronomical, the budget sounds so huge. 00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:31.440 It's important for folks to also realize the size of LA County. 00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:39.839 It is just such a significant service uh view that I think in the other places it can be almost hard to wrap your mind around the landscape. 00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:42.720 So just I think it's an important point to stress. 00:32:43.039 --> 00:33:06.799 And I think it also speaks to the need for like DYD is a great innovative agency that, as like you said, is a county agency, and there's so many benefits to standing it up in that particular way in this case, and thinking about all of the community partnerships that kind of create that almost like a buffer, or I see them as life rafts, right? 00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:19.759 Like all these community agencies that are there ready and pulse, like have the pulse of community to ensure that DYD is always moving in in spirit with community and addressing the critical needs that exist. 00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:26.559 And hope that DYD could also be really helpful in seeing multiple things start to sprout up. 00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:32.559 Like what else needs to be stood up that really does focus on maybe the prevention around child welfare, right? 00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:34.000 What are some of these other things? 00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:38.960 What's in in place that's sprouting up to have really creative and innovative ideas around housing? 00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:42.160 We know that's a big thing in LA and across the country. 00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:52.000 But all of these things, I just think DYD again, part of why we wanted to shed light on this, is because it is such a real example of something else that can be done. 00:33:52.160 --> 00:34:02.799 And the hope that kind of sits with that and that we really hope can inspire other folks to get involved and figure out, okay, yeah, this thing I've been thinking about, it's not just this dream over here. 00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:10.400 I can actualize this, we can operationalize this, and there's a way to do it, and there are people I can call and I can figure out what was the process. 00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:19.199 Um, I just love that that this has been kind of bridging kind of across what are some of the real challenges, but most importantly, what are the opportunities? 00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:26.800 Um, and so just I know we tend to speak to the challenges because it's what we all see first and it's what we all want to warn against and say, hey, get ready. 00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:30.719 It's gonna be great, there's gonna be joy, but there's gonna be bumps, um, and to be ready for that. 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:32.320 But we'd love to also hear from you. 00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:47.039 Um, given your world of experience, though, both your lived experience, your professional experience across sectors in very different ways, what are some of the most exciting things that you've been able to deal with, work on touch, being in the role that you are now? 00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:50.000 Yeah, it's gonna be partnerships, right? 00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:52.719 Um, and partnerships in in a variety of ways. 00:34:52.880 --> 00:35:08.639 Certainly, we've kind of you know talked about the exciting partnerships with community and with community-based organizations, uh, which is you know, phenomenal public-private partnership, if you will, between county government and and community-serving place-based organizations. 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:14.000 But the partnership within the county amongst the departments um has been amazing, right? 00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:25.440 Um, we have partnerships with DCFS, we have partnerships with arts and culture, with libraries, with the DA's office, with uh law enforcement, with probation, just to name a few. 00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:32.159 There, there are you know probably too many others to name, and forgive me uh if I didn't And the great partnership with the Haywood Burns Institute. 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:34.320 Well, absolutely, right, absolutely. 00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:43.280 I was counting you in those community-based organizations, but okay, you know, you know, but but but of course, but of course the partnership with with the Burns Institute. 00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:48.000 But you know, we have programs that were really developed with young people in mind. 00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:55.840 Um, these other departments recognize certain populations that they that they would love to provide additional services for, right? 00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:05.840 I've even recently had a conversation with uh DPSS, the you know, um public services, on ways that we can reduce the stigma on on receiving aid, right? 00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:10.800 Let's say you're a student and you receive uh assistance in in buying food, right? 00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:19.039 That shouldn't be something you should be ashamed of, and it shouldn't be something that you don't take advantage of because you're worried about the stigma of receiving aid. 00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:24.239 So there's so many exciting partnerships, some that have been tapped, some that haven't been

tapped. 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:30.320 Obviously, the the Office of Education, you know, here in LA County, just so many opportunities to partner. 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:34.079 And what those partnerships have brought out are things like a program called Ray. 00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:48.880 Um, our Ray program is our re-entry program where young people have the opportunity to receive services in community, either if they've just left a facility or if they are looking at potentially being incarcerated, right? 00:36:48.960 --> 00:37:02.159 We've got these programs to support them, uh, to provide things that they need, also a stipend, access to resources for emergency needs, uniforms to pay for classes, um, emergency rent assistance, things like that. 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:18.159 That program is actually keeping young people out of facilities, either through preventing recidivism, or some judges are saying, if you participate in this program, I will release you to community instead of incarcerating you. 00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:28.960 And that program would not have been developed without the partnership of multiple county departments, including the DA, the defense attorney, the judges, et cetera, right? 00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:34.079 So that that is one of the biggest, most exciting, you know, things that I've experienced. 00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:50.000 Certainly at the micro level, at the individual level, seeing young people go through diversion, right, facing the most challenging circumstances of their young lives, and then ending that program by deciding to pursue work in this field. 00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:56.239 So we've got young people who finish diversion, you know, continue to engage with that organization. 00:37:56.480 --> 00:38:02.880 And now, a few years later, they actually work uh at the same place that that supported them in their development. 00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:07.519 And I and I just love to see um stories like that or you know, situations like that. 00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:22.159 We've got young people, um, and I just was with uh a young man who was in custody at one of our most secure juvenile facilities, facing what's called juvenile life, which is which is seven years or until you turn uh 25 years of age. 00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:38.239 This young person uh got his associate's degree uh while he was uh in custody, and in just two years after leaving the facility, he was able to get a bachelor's degree from one of the most prestigious universities uh in California, right? 00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:40.639 And is now working on a variety of fronts. 00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:50.880 I don't know when he sleeps because he works, uh still goes back into the facility uh working with other young people while holding a regular uh nine to five uh creative uh job. 00:38:50.960 --> 00:39:05.039 Uh so there are so many exciting individual stories, but then being part of this systems change through partnership is is probably the the the the most lasting

and profound impact uh that I can even imagine. 00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:12.719 So, yeah, I mean this is great, David. 00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:26.880 You know, from where we started and hearing about your story and then all of the work of the department, all these experiences you're having, you know, the the this podcast is really about the future and how to what is our vision? 00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:32.960 And so wanted to give you kind of a last question around, you know, what is your vision? 00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:42.480 Talk about what you see for the future, both as an individual, but also as a person who has your role and perspective, which comes with all of that responsibility. 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:49.280 I mean, you know, uh Sam earlier talked about, you know, folks being, you know, concerned about change and how it might affect them. 00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:51.840 You know, I would love to put myself out of work, right? 00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:56.800 And and I would love to do that uh by no young person being in a facility. 00:39:56.960 --> 00:40:10.559 And I know that is a you know a lofty dream, but my vision is that all young people have access to the resources they need to prevent them from being in situations that result uh in their in their incarceration. 00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:27.519 So that's that's my you know long-term vision is to make sure that no young person uh is behind bars, not because they're not being held accountable, but because they've got what they need on the front end to thrive and that they're being supported and being given second chances, right? 00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:28.480 Um along the way. 00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:35.119 The same types of second chances that that I was given and and lots of other uh folks are given along the way. 00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:36.880 So, you know, that's the dream. 00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:42.559 You know, certainly my statement is youth development is public safety. 00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:46.079 Um, we are not in contrast with public safety. 00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:56.320 Oftentimes folks look at second chances as not holding, again, young people accountable, creating unsafe situations for communities, but the converse is true. 00:40:56.559 --> 00:41:03.119 If you give folks what they need, then they're going to be so much less likely to engage in those risky behaviors. 00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:06.480 So, so again, youth development is public safety. 00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:07.679 That that's the goal. 00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:08.079 Yeah. 00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:19.440 You know, and then I guess if you, you know, my second goal, I guess, um, is for the work that we do in LA County for it to be replicated um across the state and across the country. 00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:27.119 So I do feel that if we're successful in what we do, other folks will take the opportunity to do the same thing. 00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:29.679 Um, and nothing that we're doing is proprietary. 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:31.599 Um, we're not keeping any secrets. 00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:41.519 Um, you can find Youth Justice Reimagined, all of our programs, everything is available, you know, either on our website or in other spaces and places on the internet. 00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:50.320 We are open to engaging with you know other counties uh across the state and across the country to offer any type of insight that we can. 00:41:50.400 --> 00:42:02.159 You know, we've had the opportunity to speak in other cities and heard of places that were really excited about the work that both Burns did here in in uh California and in LA and what DYD is doing. 00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:12.719 So it would be uh a dream of mine to look up one day and see departments of youth development across the country preventing youth incarceration and supporting young people. 00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:13.760 Yeah, I love it. 00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:16.400 I love that youth development is public safety. 00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:20.239 Would love to hear the, I mean, I can hear the slogans now, right? 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:25.519 The future being that youth development is the lead public safety approach nationally. 00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:26.320 I I love it. 00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:28.000 I think that is what it needs to be. 00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:30.960 I think that is what the future is about and what we're trying to build. 00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:35.920 And, you know, for us as the Burns Institute, our North Star structural well-being, right? 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:45.679 Looking, we're looking to build structures that center the well-being of folk on the margins who are having, you know, who have historically been pushed into these systems. 00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:48.320 And that's infrastructure. 00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:51.920 That's not a program, that's not even just a department, right? 00:42:52.000 --> 00:43:02.559 That's a that's a goal of creating infrastructure that will allow these type of strategies to thrive, allow us to achieve a sustainable tomorrow. 00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:09.440 And so, you know, that for us is really embodied in what we shared and talked about today. 00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:45.519 And it's been an absolute privilege for us as an organization to go on this journey with so many people in Los Angeles and now in other jurisdictions who are actually picking up elements of youth justice reimagine who are trying to go on their own journey to figure out how they can depart from the punishment system that is not working for them or those young people or families and embrace something um similar or if not a model that has been laid out in Los Angeles, where again, if don't forget what I said in the beginning, when we did this, people were like nothing, they will that place will never change. 00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:47.440 Nothing you all, you know. 00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:50.639 Do you think that just because you put this report out is gonna change? 00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:59.840 And here we are with a hundred million dollar budget, over a hundred staff, huge relationships across the youth development networks throughout LA County. 00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:05.440 Um, so it's a great example for us of what structural well-being might look like. 00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:07.360 Well, we appreciate the time, David. 00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:13.440 We think this is probably the first of many conversations, as deep as our partnership goes, being there from the beginning. 00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:18.559 So glad you did not be lying for the first nearest exit that you found in the room. 00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:23.360 But that you are here with us and charting a new course forward. 00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:24.000 Thank you. 00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:33.840 Thank you so much, and I appreciate the the friendship and and partnership, um, a shoulder to cry on and you know, and and someone to laugh with when things are going well. 00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:36.559 So I appreciate your continued support. 00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:38.719 Next future on deck. 00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:52.480 We recognize what a privilege it is to share this time and space with you all as we consider our limitless potential to build a better future for this world. 00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:57.119 We would like to thank our listeners for your support, and thank you to our team and producers. 00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:06.559 There is a bright future on deck, and we hope this podcast is a reminder that you all have a meaningful part in a great responsibility in building. 00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:09.119 It's the opportunity of a lifetime. 00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:12.719 You can download Future On Deck wherever you get your podcast. 00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:18.159 Be sure to like and subscribe and leave a comment to us about your own vision for the future. 00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:19.760 Help us get the word out. 00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:21.920 So if you're new here, come on in. 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.320 This is a space where we all belong. 00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:32.239 Hey, it's Sam. 00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:40.000 In case you missed it, our documentary Youth Justice Reimagined, a story of community innovation and collaboration, is out now. 00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:44.800 If you've been moved by the conversations on this podcast, this film really brings it all to life. 00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:53.519 You'll hear directly from young people and advocates who are reimagining youth justice in Los Angeles and building the Department of Youth Development from the ground up. 00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:58.400 It's powerful, it's honest, and it shows what's possible when we lead with our humanity. 00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:01.840 Head to our website or check the link in the show notes to watch. 00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:05.199 After you do, be sure to come back and tell us what's really stayed with you. 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:06.800 It's critical to our practice.