บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Drag the Tool Case Before You Design the Tool - #146 - Russ Wylie

00:04:59,441 --> 00:05:04,721 He was able to copy and paste things into the different tools available and then be 60 00:05:04,741 --> 00:05:09,702 able to provide a very consistent and and wonderful service report afterwards. 61 00:05:09,722 --> 00:05:15,003 And you think to yourself, you know, as we're not adopting these tools, these tools 62 00:05:15,023 --> 00:05:20,239 that are moving very, very quickly in the outside world internally, how am I going 63 00:05:20,259 --> 00:05:21,964 to keep this person around? 64 00:05:21,984 --> 00:05:26,262 Because the first reaction you get from when you have these people, the first 65 00:05:26,282 --> 00:05:30,895 reaction you get from those who are trying to run a global organization and and the 66 00:05:30,915 --> 00:05:35,361 you know much larger organization than the mind, the people that I I roll up to, 67 00:05:35,381 --> 00:05:39,436 they start saying, Well, hold on, that tool isn't those are those are not 68 00:05:39,456 --> 00:05:41,725 authorized. These are things we can't do. 69 00:05:41,745 --> 00:05:44,683 And when I first hear that, it one, it's a challenge. 70 00:05:44,703 --> 00:05:49,093 But then two, it's also like you start thinking about this one engineer that we 71 00:05:49,113 --> 00:05:52,164 hired, the one service engineer, service tech engineer. 72 00:05:52,184 --> 00:05:55,845 Is he gonna stick around? He's not gonna stick around. 73 00:05:55,865 --> 00:06:01,163 He's gonna be here for six months, realize what he can do, and then he's gone. 74 00:06:01,183 --> 00:06:06,890 He's gonna go pedal his his wear someplace else, and we are gonna be out a fantastic 75 00:06:06,910 --> 00:06:09,209 opportunity to engage this person. 76 00:06:09,229 --> 00:06:14,503 Yeah, you know, I think oftentimes when we talk about these types of things with our 77 00:06:14,523 --> 00:06:19,735 clients at headquarters, there's this tendency to distill things down to the lowest 78 00:06:19,755 --> 00:06:24,777 common denominator. And that's when questions I I just had a conversation with a 79 00:06:24,797 --> 00:06:29,063 client recently where they said, Well, Justin, you don't understand. 80 00:06:29,083 --> 00:06:32,719 Some of our guys in the field are still using smartphones. 81 00:06:32,739 --> 00:06:36,186 Okay. Or excuse me, flip phones is what they said. Flip 82 00:06:36,206 --> 00:06:38,177 phones. Of course they're using smartphones. 83 00:06:38,308 --> 00:06:40,955 There's they said they're still using flip phones. 84 00:06:40,975 --> 00:06:45,436 See, I couldn't even get the words out of my mouth because it seems so foreign to me 85 00:06:45,456 --> 00:06:49,704 to still talk about flip phones. But but let's assume for a minute, I don't even 86 00:06:49,724 --> 00:06:54,133 think that they're right, but let's assume for a minute that there are a handful of 87 00:06:54,153 --> 00:06:57,547 guys. This is an organization that has 17,000 frontline workers. 88 00:06:57,567 --> 00:07:01,922 And people at headquarters were arguing with me, borderline arguing with me, about 89 00:07:01,942 --> 00:07:05,496 the fact that, well, guys in the field still are using flip phones. 90 00:07:05,516 --> 00:07:06,777 I would bet that there's 91 00:07:06,797 --> 00:07:10,939 Five dudes in the field who are still holding on to their flip phones, if that. 92 00:07:10,959 --> 00:07:16,791 And what's happened is that organization is like lowering the expectation down to 93 00:07:16,811 --> 00:07:22,427 meet those guys and using that as an excuse to not deliver for the rest of the 94 00:07:22,447 --> 00:07:28,589 organization. Right. Because even if they're right, even if those five guys are using 95 00:07:28,709 --> 00:07:31,732 flip phones, like we're probably never going to bring them on board. 96 00:07:31,752 --> 00:07:35,446 So let them go. You know, I'm I'm not saying fire them, I'm saying let them be, let 97 00:07:35,466 --> 00:07:36,655 them use their flip phones. 98 00:07:36,675 --> 00:07:40,547 But let's go work on the other sixteen thousand nine hundred and ninety-five people 99 00:07:40,567 --> 00:07:43,690 that are in the organization that are probably ready to move ahead. 100 00:07:43,710 --> 00:07:45,144 What are your thoughts on that? 101 00:07:45,164 --> 00:07:50,418 Yeah, no, I I think you have to dis design for the you know, the most usual scenario 102 00:07:50,438 --> 00:07:55,315 that you're gonna have, right? So get eighty percent right and worry about the 103 00:07:55,335 --> 00:08:00,589 twenty percent afterwards. The situation I would say though and challenge that those 104 00:08:00,609 --> 00:08:03,414 people is that why are they still using that? 105 00:08:03,434 --> 00:08:08,563 'Cause I had I had the same, you know, discussion with people who wouldn't turn in 106 00:08:08,583 --> 00:08:14,528 their old laptops for new laptops and they had ones that were wrapped in duct tape and go, why? 107 00:08:14,548 --> 00:08:19,702 Why are you not turning in the laptop? Well, and it it eventually would either go 108 00:08:19,722 --> 00:08:24,877 down two paths. One of I just I can't change because this is the one I like and I 109 00:08:24,897 --> 00:08:29,923 don't want to learn a new one, which is which is one way, and that could be the 110 00:08:29,943 --> 00:08:35,098 flip-hone argument. The other one is what you give me in a new laptop does not is 111 00:08:35,118 --> 00:08:39,761 not easier to use and is not easily for me to switch from the old laptop. 112 00:08:39,781 --> 00:08:41,231 So the switching costs. 113 00:08:41,251 --> 00:08:45,821 For that individual, that technician who's been there a long time and has lots of 114 00:08:45,841 --> 00:08:48,825 things stored on his computer, right? Over the years. 115 00:08:48,845 --> 00:08:53,415 All these, I think we talked before, you know, my grandpa was a Pontiac mechanic, 116 00:08:53,435 --> 00:08:58,176 right? And he was

he for for like 50 years and he had a drawer full of wrenches that 117 00:08:58,196 --> 00:09:00,500 he custom ground and custom made himself. 118 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:04,977 These guys are the same way. They have tools and hints and tricks on there that 119 00:09:04,997 --> 00:09:09,624 they've kept for a long time. So those switch costs are so high for that person to 120 00:09:09,644 --> 00:09:11,268 change into the new way that. 121 00:09:11,288 --> 00:09:15,874 they don't want to do it. Now that's generally a perception issue, though. 122 00:09:15,894 --> 00:09:20,916 Right. You need to make it that it is easier to switch than it is to stand on the 123 00:09:20,936 --> 00:09:25,336 platform where they're in, right? And give them the new and the better. 124 00:09:25,356 --> 00:09:28,759 And you will, you know, slowly attrit those people out. 125 00:09:28,779 --> 00:09:33,802 But the the benefit that you need to achieve from this is you're gonna take these 126 00:09:33,822 --> 00:09:39,778 people who have these new ideas and be able to launch them on things so that they can, you know. 127 00:09:39,798 --> 00:09:43,995 Be able to help design the newest and the best software. 128 00:09:44,015 --> 00:09:50,246 So the example like I had with that, with that technician who was, you know, really 129 00:09:50,266 --> 00:09:56,120 interested in vibe coding stuff, he came up with a white paper and an idea for 130 00:09:56,140 --> 00:10:02,371 grabbing all of this technician tribal knowledge for lack of a better word, in, you 131 00:10:02,391 --> 00:10:04,932 know, by scraping chats inside the 132 00:10:04,952 --> 00:10:09,401 The different tra chat system they they had, and then putting them all together 133 00:10:09,421 --> 00:10:13,927 inside of a a system where technical experts could review it to make sure it was 134 00:10:13,947 --> 00:10:18,453 correct, obviously, right? You don't want to perpetuate bad information, but and 135 00:10:18,473 --> 00:10:21,169 then make that available back to everybody else. 136 00:10:21,189 --> 00:10:25,921 And he had this whole white paper built. I connected him eventually with some of the 137 00:10:25,941 --> 00:10:30,221 people that were working on some of the bleeding edge technology and the the 138 00:10:30,241 --> 00:10:34,917 headquarters location of this company, and it it started to you know go with like a 139 00:10:34,937 --> 00:10:38,355 Snowball downhill. It just started going bigger and bigger and bigger. 140 00:10:38,375 --> 00:10:42,382 So it was a great story, but you know, that's because I was able to grab it at the 141 00:10:42,402 --> 00:10:46,311 level I was at. But there are others in a, you know, two hundred, three hundred, 142 00:10:46,331 --> 00:10:49,847 five hundred person organization who are gonna have the same experience. 143 00:10:49,867 --> 00:10:53,826 And they're just they're gonna come in, look at this and go, Wow, this is this is 144 00:10:53,846 --> 00:10:56,773 crazy. And they just they wanna they wanna run out the door. 145 00:10:56,793 --> 00:11:02,399 Yeah. You know, one of my customers said something about change that it seems so 146 00:11:02,419 --> 00:11:07,956 simple when he said it, but I I think it was super important and true and a bit 147 00:11:07,976 --> 00:11:13,724 profound in that the issue isn't as much about the new thing, it's about unwinding 148 00:11:13,744 --> 00:11:16,607 the old muscle memory from the old thing. 149 00:11:16,627 --> 00:11:19,793 And I I think there's something to that, that 150 00:11:19,873 --> 00:11:23,787 it's it's what we know, even though it's clunky, even though we've got some duct 151 00:11:23,807 --> 00:11:25,263 tape on it, it's what we know. 152 00:11:25,283 --> 00:11:29,064 These guys are under a lot of pressure, a lot of time pressure, a lot of performance 153 00:11:29,084 --> 00:11:32,865 pressure. They're standing in front of a customer, they're doing work, they're being 154 00:11:32,885 --> 00:11:35,218 timed, right? There's just a lot of other pressures. 155 00:11:35,238 --> 00:11:38,747 And this is just like that's the one thing that's kind of a constant for them. 156 00:11:38,767 --> 00:11:42,548 It it may still be glitchy and they may still have to like hold the power button for 157 00:11:42,568 --> 00:11:46,349 a little bit longer or whatever to get like whatever the nuances, but it's like it's 158 00:11:46,369 --> 00:11:47,662 the thing that they know. And 159 00:11:47,682 --> 00:11:51,749 even if it's if it's old software, we we actually just heard from a client the other 160 00:11:51,769 --> 00:11:53,647 day who was saying that they're giving. 161 00:11:53,667 --> 00:11:57,600 Their employees the opportunity to use the old system and the new system. And people Hmm. 162 00:11:57,931 --> 00:12:02,855 are still fail you know, not failing back, but falling back to to the old system, 163 00:12:02,875 --> 00:12:05,358 not because it's better, but it's because 164 00:12:05,378 --> 00:12:07,999 it's just what they know and what they're used to. 165 00:12:08,019 --> 00:12:10,483 And in a crunch, trying to get stuff done, it's 166 00:12:10,503 --> 00:12:14,154 easier to go back to the to the muscle memory and just use use it the way you had 167 00:12:14,174 --> 00:12:15,106 been using it before. 168 00:12:15,126 --> 00:12:20,593 Yeah, it it's it's tough because the the risks when you get these things wrong and 169 00:12:20,613 --> 00:12:24,609 you do the integrations wrong, were are are very, very high. 170 00:12:24,629 --> 00:12:29,896 So I I I always will remember this. So the first time I had to present at a big 171 00:12:29,916 --> 00:12:34,848 aviation conference, I was a customer support manager for a large aviation 172 00:12:34,868 --> 00:12:37,659 manufacturer, product support type person. 173 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:43,013 And I had to present about some technical issues that we had on some products to

174 00:12:43,033 --> 00:12:48,176 a bunch of our customers in China. And we we had we were one of many suppliers that 175 00:12:48,196 --> 00:12:52,282 were showing up. So I was one of them and there were a few others. 176 00:12:52,302 --> 00:12:56,574 And there was one group that they presented and it it sticks with me. 177 00:12:56,594 --> 00:13:01,178 They put this chart up to say this is our on time we we know we messed up. 178 00:13:01,198 --> 00:13:06,279 This is our on time performance and had a chart that's used, you know, 90, 95, 85, 179 00:13:06,299 --> 00:13:12,252 90, 98. And then there was it just dropped to like zero and it just progressed like a flat line. 180 00:13:12,272 --> 00:13:16,245 And they said, well, that was the point that we decided to change our ERP. 181 00:13:16,265 --> 00:13:19,645 And we messed up. And we didn't ship anything for eight months. 182 00:13:19,665 --> 00:13:23,909 And they put it up there. And I have to hand it to them for being very open and 183 00:13:23,929 --> 00:13:26,553 honest with their customers about their problems. 184 00:13:26,573 --> 00:13:28,820 You know, there was nothing else to to do. 185 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:33,137 but that has always stuck with me. And that's always talked me about these these 186 00:13:33,157 --> 00:13:37,454 kind of integrations, is that if you you're you're going along, you're shipping, 187 00:13:37,474 --> 00:13:40,531 you're shipping, you're shipping, you're shipping, great. 188 00:13:40,551 --> 00:13:42,474 And then all of a sudden you're not. 189 00:13:42,494 --> 00:13:47,735 And because you didn't do all the front work to gather all of the requirements that 190 00:13:47,755 --> 00:13:52,806 you need to be able to generate all the user stories, you're gonna have a really 191 00:13:52,826 --> 00:13:56,863 good solid integration. And I I'll never I'll never forget that. 192 00:13:56,883 --> 00:14:02,124 That guy stood up there, he's quaking in his boots the whole time and they just the 193 00:14:02,144 --> 00:14:05,231 whole room unloaded on him. It was it was brutal. 194 00:14:05,251 --> 00:14:09,534 Well, that that's a good segue into to go back to the initial question. 195 00:14:09,554 --> 00:14:12,505 You you said there were two things. One was about 196 00:14:12,525 --> 00:14:17,071 kind of the human side, attrition and and trying to support, you know, advanced 197 00:14:17,091 --> 00:14:19,903 employees like the one that you described before. 198 00:14:19,923 --> 00:14:23,140 The other side of that equation is the actual hard cost. 199 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,649 So to go back to what we were saying, when we have poor adoption in the field, 200 00:14:27,669 --> 00:14:32,099 particularly with new technology and process, how is that hard cost measured? 201 00:14:32,119 --> 00:14:35,048 What are some examples that you've seen? Okay. Where 202 00:14:35,068 --> 00:14:39,184 it's it's been obvious to be able to look at that and say,

No, there's there's an 203 00:14:39,204 --> 00:14:41,125 actual cost to this not working right. 204 00:14:41,145 --> 00:14:46,530 Yeah, so the the two that I've seen are that really come to mind are the you know, 205 00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:51,474 the two technicians passing each other on the highway going in the opposite 206 00:14:51,494 --> 00:14:54,573 directions to go to go address customer issues. 207 00:14:54,593 --> 00:14:59,583 And not in the middle of a week when they had to do an emergency reschedule. 208 00:14:59,603 --> 00:15:05,846 We're talking about, you know, planned on a Monday morning and they're crossing each other. And 209 00:15:05,866 --> 00:15:09,860 you look at you can look backwards at these and start thinking to yourself, assuming 210 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,540 everybody's the same skill level and they they have the same skills and parts 211 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,408 available, that you've you've missed a real big opportunity. 212 00:15:16,428 --> 00:15:19,896 And that's actually those points, that's when the the technicians notice. 213 00:15:19,916 --> 00:15:22,143 And then they start saying, they start talking. 214 00:15:22,163 --> 00:15:25,918 And that's when they start talking to the dispatch teams and the dispatch teams 215 00:15:25,938 --> 00:15:29,837 notice and they start talking and they go, why why are we crossing on the highway? 216 00:15:29,857 --> 00:15:33,441 Why why am I going here and this this person going there when the jobs were 217 00:15:33,654 --> 00:15:38,267 very c near to each one of our houses and we could have just gone there and been 218 00:15:38,287 --> 00:15:42,785 home. so that's one that I see a lot of costs and associated with travel, poor 219 00:15:42,805 --> 00:15:47,592 dispatch. And then the other pieces, and I I know we talked about this too, is that 220 00:15:47,612 --> 00:15:52,400 when you have poor process and poor ability to, you know, make sure that people are 221 00:15:52,420 --> 00:15:57,265 working from the latest and greatest troubleshooting and and technology information, 222 00:15:57,285 --> 00:16:00,046 you know, I see I I call it this way, you get to 223 00:16:00,066 --> 00:16:04,895 troubleshooting on brake fixes where you unload the parts cannon on a machine. 224 00:16:04,915 --> 00:16:05,581 And I know you love that phrase, but it's it it 225 00:16:05,601 --> 00:16:07,805 I do. I love it again. 226 00:16:07,838 --> 00:16:12,852 is it it's a hundred percent true. You'll you know you start seeing these costs 227 00:16:12,872 --> 00:16:18,078 where your first time fix rates, you know, go down, your repeat warranty, warranty 228 00:16:18,098 --> 00:16:23,240 callbacks start coming because you've you've changed everything and you had don't 229 00:16:23,260 --> 00:16:27,383 this technician doesn't have the latest and greatest information. 230 00:16:27,403 --> 00:16:31,806 Or doesn't have access to information for legacy equipment in the way

that they 231 00:16:31,826 --> 00:16:36,286 should and have easy access to it, particularly maybe offline, deep inside a big 232 00:16:36,306 --> 00:16:38,749 factory where they have the ability to that. 233 00:16:38,769 --> 00:16:41,493 And it creates an incredible amount of insurance. 234 00:16:41,513 --> 00:16:46,141 You're spending thousands and thousands of dollars on parts that you're throwing at 235 00:16:46,161 --> 00:16:50,788 this machine to try to make it fix that the customer's probably never gonna pay for 236 00:16:50,808 --> 00:16:55,436 because you didn't do your due diligence with your right software to make sure that 237 00:16:55,456 --> 00:16:57,023 they can actually, you know. 238 00:16:57,250 --> 00:17:02,124 Do the work appropriately. So though those are the two big ones that I see that 239 00:17:02,144 --> 00:17:06,461 really, really you know, affect the business itself with direct costs. 240 00:17:06,481 --> 00:17:10,116 Travel is going to be a big one. That one affects overtime. 241 00:17:10,136 --> 00:17:15,073 Travel and overtime are going to be two of your biggest biggest costs associated 242 00:17:15,093 --> 00:17:20,153 with this. And then, you know, obviously the parts and warranty issue, not only is 243 00:17:20,173 --> 00:17:24,738 that a big hard cost as well, too. It, you know, it has all the soft costs 244 00:17:24,758 --> 00:17:25,750 associated with. 245 00:17:25,996 --> 00:17:30,340 you know, poor customer experience, MPS scores, dissatisfying people, you know, 246 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:34,925 because customers notice. They notice that you're there for two or three times, and 247 00:17:34,945 --> 00:17:39,345 then they start saying, Well, I need I need this technician over that technician 248 00:17:39,365 --> 00:17:41,720 because first technician couldn't solve it. 249 00:17:41,740 --> 00:17:44,648 I need second technician. They start demanding those. 250 00:17:44,668 --> 00:17:48,957 And then now your dispatching software is gonna have to plan around a bunch of 251 00:17:48,977 --> 00:17:53,598 varied rule sets that you have to program into it because of customer preference and 252 00:17:53,618 --> 00:17:54,648 the way that you've 253 00:17:54,668 --> 00:17:57,124 You've managed things poorly in the past. 254 00:17:57,144 --> 00:18:03,197 Yeah. For the longest time on my desk, I actually don't know what I did with this 255 00:18:03,217 --> 00:18:08,972 thing, but I had a part for a residential appliance on my desk at the office. 256 00:18:08,992 --> 00:18:14,954 And that part was there because a technician had come to my house to repair an 257 00:18:14,974 --> 00:18:21,244 appliance under warranty. They didn't know exactly what it was, so they fired, I'm 258 00:18:21,264 --> 00:18:25,463 gonna use your term, they fired the parts cannon at it. 259 00:18:25,483 --> 00:18:26,767 And the guy says, 260 00:18:26,787 --> 00:18:31,142 Tomorrow there's gonna be a bunch of parts that'll

show up here and I'll show up 261 00:18:31,162 --> 00:18:33,932 after the parts come in and I'll I'll get it fixed. 262 00:18:33,952 --> 00:18:38,198 So he did exactly that. Next day I get a box, it's got a bunch of parts in it. 263 00:18:38,218 --> 00:18:42,465 I don't really pay it any mind. I let the technician come in and do his thing. 264 00:18:42,485 --> 00:18:46,895 And he comes in and leaves behind all of the excess parts that he did not need on 265 00:18:46,915 --> 00:18:51,053 the work order. And so I came back, I had this, it was a wiring harness, and 266 00:18:51,073 --> 00:18:54,816 I had no idea, but I looked up that part number and it was a hundred and twenty 267 00:18:54,836 --> 00:18:57,484 eight dollars. I could have sold that thing for on eBay. 268 00:18:57,504 --> 00:19:01,596 I didn't. It was actually better for me to hold it as an example, especially given 269 00:19:01,616 --> 00:19:06,993 the business that I'm in. But that was an example of there was probably a process 270 00:19:07,013 --> 00:19:11,257 that could have validated the exact right part, but it was easy. 271 00:19:11,277 --> 00:19:15,988 It didn't really bother him. But I knew somewhere in their supply chain 272 00:19:16,008 --> 00:19:18,920 organization, somebody was feeling the pain. 273 00:19:18,940 --> 00:19:24,184 $128 times how many incidents, right? And so I I guess how do you go about like 274 00:19:24,204 --> 00:19:27,796 Connecting the dots. I've never been on, you know, in your 275 00:19:27,816 --> 00:19:30,250 seat there. How do you take that incident? 276 00:19:30,270 --> 00:19:35,042 I mean, I can throw out anecdotes all day, but like, okay, so it was 128 bucks one 277 00:19:35,062 --> 00:19:39,600 time incident, not a big deal. That organization probably had several thousand 278 00:19:39,620 --> 00:19:44,178 technicians around the United States given their brand name and everything. So 279 00:19:44,238 --> 00:19:46,733 how do you know? Like, is that happening all the time? 280 00:19:46,753 --> 00:19:50,227 How do you validate that? And then how do you bring that back to a Power BI 281 00:19:50,247 --> 00:19:54,466 dashboard or spreadsheet that you go and say, okay, this is a problem that's worth solving? 282 00:19:54,486 --> 00:19:59,426 Yeah, so the it's around identifying the the root causes for first time fixed rate 283 00:19:59,446 --> 00:20:04,507 issues, right? By figuring out the technicians that are there to solve them, the the 284 00:20:04,527 --> 00:20:09,588 part that was the main issue that ultimately was the last one that was replaced, and 285 00:20:09,608 --> 00:20:14,487 then doing the investigation around that to see whether it's a faulty part, a bad 286 00:20:14,507 --> 00:20:19,387 supplier. or are your is your training the the right, you know, for that as well? 287 00:20:19,407 --> 00:20:22,976 Are they they working off the latest and greatest training? 288 00:20:23,117 --> 00:20:26,283 they have the

ability. It's sometimes pick and shovel. 289 00:20:26,303 --> 00:20:30,944 You can develop power BI dashboards to look at first-time fix rate and identify 290 00:20:30,964 --> 00:20:35,724 those and identify the, you know, the the part that that was replaced on the last 291 00:20:35,744 --> 00:20:40,680 service call. And that's where I've been pretty successful with with digging through 292 00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:45,637 that. The thing that you need though is you need good partners in your supply chain, 293 00:20:45,657 --> 00:20:50,357 or if you're vertically integrated your your manufacturing base, so that you can 294 00:20:50,377 --> 00:20:52,836 actually bring back to them, you know, the 295 00:20:52,856 --> 00:20:55,267 the data so they can start digging into it. 296 00:20:55,287 --> 00:20:59,847 The last one of these that I did, I went around and around with with with the the 297 00:20:59,867 --> 00:21:04,428 latest plant and they they came back to say, well here's a better troubleshooting 298 00:21:04,448 --> 00:21:08,160 guide for your technician so they don't replace the part so often. 299 00:21:08,180 --> 00:21:11,214 And and that just that obviously didn't fly real well. 300 00:21:11,234 --> 00:21:15,964 So we had to go back to the the drawing board to take a look at some of the problems 301 00:21:15,984 --> 00:21:19,583 that they were having and get higher level engineering involved. 302 00:21:19,603 --> 00:21:22,976 But it was it's also a great opportunity as well too because 303 00:21:22,996 --> 00:21:28,181 For all the ones that we're, you know, you're seeing and you're capturing, there are 304 00:21:28,201 --> 00:21:32,766 also ones where the customer gets fed up and they just call somebody else. 305 00:21:32,786 --> 00:21:35,802 And you're not seeing that, that business, right? 306 00:21:35,822 --> 00:21:41,008 So in your case, so say your dishwasher's broken, guy comes in to repair, repair it, 307 00:21:41,028 --> 00:21:44,726 doesn't get it right. You know what? It's it's a dishwasher. 308 00:21:44,746 --> 00:21:47,390 It's not you know, it's not rocket surgery. 309 00:21:47,410 --> 00:21:50,179 I can go call the next dishwasher repair guy. 310 00:21:50,199 --> 00:21:52,162 He comes in, he'll he'll fix it. 311 00:21:52,182 --> 00:21:56,921 That first group doesn't even know that they spent all that time and money, didn't 312 00:21:56,941 --> 00:22:02,030 do any work on it. And now you're you're a loyal customer to brand B instead of brand A. 313 00:22:02,050 --> 00:22:06,877 Yep. Yeah, I think and I actually think that happens a lot in in the service 314 00:22:06,897 --> 00:22:12,234 business. And that you you raise an interesting point that that is probably a little 315 00:22:12,254 --> 00:22:13,977 bit harder to track because 316 00:22:14,037 --> 00:22:17,624 you may not know about the business that you don't have anymore. Right. 317 00:22:17,644 --> 00:22:18,798 Mm-hmm. That's exactly 318 00:22:18,818 --> 00:22:23,668 right. You only you only have the ability to look at first time fix rate issues when 319 00:22:23,688 --> 00:22:26,393 the customer calls you back for the second fix. 320 00:22:26,413 --> 00:22:32,189 Yeah. I I think that the reason I'm I'm so kind of fascinated with the cost tracking 321 00:22:32,209 --> 00:22:36,467 on this, it seems to be, I I literally just got off the phone. 322 00:22:36,487 --> 00:22:42,263 I was telling you before I got off the phone with a new customer, and they know they 323 00:22:42,283 --> 00:22:45,782 have problems with process and technology adoption. 324 00:22:45,802 --> 00:22:50,129 They don't yet, they haven't yet figured out how to measure it. 325 00:22:50,149 --> 00:22:54,634 And and it's part of what I really want to bring to this show is. 326 00:22:54,876 --> 00:23:00,894 is to help people really think about how we can turn something that we know 327 00:23:00,914 --> 00:23:07,657 instinctively is a big business problem, but but turn that into a business case that 328 00:23:07,677 --> 00:23:11,200 we can get support for some solution. Now of 329 00:23:11,220 --> 00:23:15,753 course the people that I'm talking to in my day job are are looking to you know potentially 330 00:23:15,773 --> 00:23:19,013 use our platform and our services to help solve for some of that. 331 00:23:19,033 --> 00:23:23,980 But it it doesn't matter whether you're talking to us or talking to somebody else or looking to use 332 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,812 Some new process in your company. Like at some point you got to really start exactly 333 00:23:28,832 --> 00:23:33,299 as you said with the root cause analysis and be able to then take that back to 334 00:23:33,319 --> 00:23:37,728 saying, How do we measure when we're failing and how do we measure when we're 335 00:23:37,748 --> 00:23:42,215 succeeding? And it seems to me that it's it's some kind of like, I don't know, 336 00:23:42,235 --> 00:23:45,322 witchcraft or something. You know, we haven't r really 337 00:23:45,342 --> 00:23:49,723 been able to kind of nail it down. It seem it feels to me like it should be simpler 338 00:23:49,743 --> 00:23:53,966 than it is, but I I know that there's so many complexities and hidden costs that 339 00:23:53,986 --> 00:23:57,142 probably make that a little bit more opaque than we would otherwise think. 340 00:23:57,162 --> 00:24:02,121 It it's it's it's difficult to really get to a lot of these root causes because you 341 00:24:02,141 --> 00:24:06,141 have to getting the data is is difficult to really understand that. 342 00:24:06,161 --> 00:24:09,920 So you can get you get to the point first time fixed rate rate. 343 00:24:09,940 --> 00:24:14,780 So I get I have a high first time fixed rate issue with part number, you know, A, 344 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,839 right? I get that I can get that data. That's easy. 345 00:24:17,859 --> 00:24:21,559 I say that they're replaced on first-time fixed

rate problems. 346 00:24:21,579 --> 00:24:27,139 there's a lot of warranty associated with that, warranty spend with that part. I can do that. 347 00:24:27,159 --> 00:24:31,726 At a pretty high level, pretty easily. The next levels beyond that though, that's 348 00:24:31,746 --> 00:24:35,010 where it starts to get difficult and it's pick and shovel. 349 00:24:35,030 --> 00:24:39,711 You're, you know, I haven't seen tools yet that can ingest multiple service reports 350 00:24:39,731 --> 00:24:44,411 from different technicians, read the issues that are associated with that, and then 351 00:24:44,431 --> 00:24:47,412 be able to kind of spit out what the the analysis is. 352 00:24:47,432 --> 00:24:50,867 I think we're getting there, but I I I haven't seen that yet. 353 00:24:50,887 --> 00:24:56,154 but you have to do a lot of reading of service reports, you have to read the service reports. 354 00:24:56,352 --> 00:25:01,316 To read the search for beyond that, you have to try to understand the the problems 355 00:25:01,336 --> 00:25:05,996 associated with it and be able to understand and make sure that you're you're 356 00:25:06,016 --> 00:25:10,858 actually fully capturing it. Because sometimes it's there are you know extending 357 00:25:10,878 --> 00:25:15,782 circumstances, environmental issues, there are pro you know, things that spike on 358 00:25:15,802 --> 00:25:20,522 dashboards could be associated with in in in spaces I've lived, like lightning 359 00:25:20,542 --> 00:25:24,980 storms in the area. And it it could set off a bunch of these machines and 360 00:25:25,162 --> 00:25:28,448 And you could have a bunch of issues associated with that. 361 00:25:28,468 --> 00:25:31,356 So it's it gets to be very unsexy very fast, right? 362 00:25:31,376 --> 00:25:36,031 It's it's always fun to be able to, you know, show these big dashboards, hey, look 363 00:25:36,051 --> 00:25:40,307 like this this part's our problem. But then getting into that next level of 364 00:25:40,327 --> 00:25:44,982 granularity requires, you know, somebody who wants to sit and actually dig through 365 00:25:45,002 --> 00:25:48,004 it all and try to understand it at the at this point. 366 00:25:48,024 --> 00:25:50,740 And then you can come up with the the solutions. 367 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,074 I find that, you know, kind of launching teams on this is really helpful. So 368 00:25:55,094 --> 00:26:00,127 What I've done is I've taken, you know, some of my supervisors and I've said, we're 369 00:26:00,147 --> 00:26:05,059 gonna develop a supervisor-led team. We're gonna have three of you guys are gonna 370 00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:09,077 look at a problem that we have. And it could be new tool adoption. 371 00:26:09,097 --> 00:26:14,191 So you three work on new tools. And whether that's gonna be an AI, you know, chatbot 372 00:26:14,211 --> 00:26:17,844 tool or a new gauge that we're we're looking to go for that. 373 00:26:17,864 --> 00:26:22,776 A safety team. You bring those people together and say, our number one issue with 374 00:26:22,796 --> 00:26:24,684 safety is slip trips and falls. 375 00:26:24,857 --> 00:26:29,633 Particularly in in this area or cuts, develop and help develop a solution for that, 376 00:26:29,653 --> 00:26:33,505 right? Let's come up with that. That technicians will actually use. 377 00:26:33,525 --> 00:26:38,129 You know, problem with safety issues a lot of times that are developed in a in a 378 00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:41,848 sterile environment inside of a plant, and everybody goes, Well, 379 00:26:41,957 --> 00:26:44,331 yeah, this is this is the problem, you know. 380 00:26:44,351 --> 00:26:45,272 And you then you try to launch that to the field. 381 00:26:45,292 --> 00:26:46,997 That doesn't this doesn't apply to us because that's not yeah. 382 00:26:47,017 --> 00:26:48,793 Everybody, yeah, everybody laughs 383 00:26:48,813 --> 00:26:53,360 at that stuff. and then, you know, you can look at 384 00:26:53,380 --> 00:26:57,694 other things I've looked at warranty and had warranty people launched at warranty 385 00:26:57,714 --> 00:27:02,189 issues and say, Hey, we have a a warranty issue on this this particular one machine. 386 00:27:02,209 --> 00:27:04,490 Why, why is that? it's all new technicians. 387 00:27:04,510 --> 00:27:07,166 okay. New technicians are having issues with that. 388 00:27:07,186 --> 00:27:11,607 Hmm. Let's review the training. Let's work with the training team to make sure that 389 00:27:11,627 --> 00:27:15,514 we're understanding why this team is really struggling with those things. 390 00:27:15,534 --> 00:27:17,996 So I think getting the buy-in as well too from 391 00:27:18,198 --> 00:27:22,500 Sometimes your field organization, your field leaders, and the and the technicians 392 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,823 and interviewing them is going to get you there a little faster, but it it it gets 393 00:27:26,843 --> 00:27:28,036 real on sexy real fast. 394 00:27:28,056 --> 00:27:34,698 Yeah, I had a another customer conversation today that you're reminding me of. 395 00:27:34,718 --> 00:27:36,578 They they talked about 396 00:27:36,598 --> 00:27:40,549 The the field techs are describing 397 00:27:40,569 --> 00:27:46,031 the things that, you know, how the work order went in a free text field, which as you said, 398 00:27:46,051 --> 00:27:49,734 now it's something that somebody's got to go back and kind of read. 399 00:27:49,754 --> 00:27:54,378 And I guess in in the modern era, we can throw some, you know, AI tooling at that to 400 00:27:54,398 --> 00:27:58,911 go pick up the sentiment on that. But in most cases, that application, their field 401 00:27:58,931 --> 00:28:02,670 service management software, however they're tracking their tickets. 402 00:28:02,690 --> 00:28:06,706 Has the ability to make that data. And what they found through this conversation is 403 00:28:06,726 --> 00:28:10,645 that people weren't

using like there was an inspection form that they should have 404 00:28:10,665 --> 00:28:12,104 been using in the application. 405 00:28:12,124 --> 00:28:16,075 But instead of actually filling out that form, they were actually just going into a 406 00:28:16,095 --> 00:28:20,046 free text field and kind of putting in a quick trip summary and said, I fixed it, I 407 00:28:20,066 --> 00:28:22,028 replaced the part, you know, case closed. 408 00:28:22,242 --> 00:28:23,069 Mm-hmm. 409 00:28:23,089 --> 00:28:27,852 And so it prevented them from having a lot of the data on the back end that the 410 00:28:27,872 --> 00:28:30,456 system was actually designed to do because. 411 00:28:30,476 --> 00:28:33,276 folks in the field weren't actually using the system. 412 00:28:33,296 --> 00:28:36,843 So is that consistent with things that you've seen in in your life? 413 00:28:36,863 --> 00:28:42,273 I've the best example I had that is when I worked for a large e-commerce company and 414 00:28:42,293 --> 00:28:47,573 I was working in customer service. And we were trying to look at wrap-up codes for 415 00:28:47,593 --> 00:28:52,422 the calls. So you would call this company and say, I can't find my product. 416 00:28:52,442 --> 00:28:57,012 I I have a problem. And so we said, we need we need more wrap-up codes. 417 00:28:57,032 --> 00:29:00,502 You need more data. So we added like 35 wrap-up codes. 418 00:29:00,522 --> 00:29:04,834 So the codes you basically have a free text field and you have like 419 00:29:04,854 --> 00:29:09,901 You know, the reason for the call. You just pull drop downs, you click the buttons, 420 00:29:09,921 --> 00:29:11,672 it it adds them to the thing. 421 00:29:11,692 --> 00:29:15,781 Would you know that 95% of the wrap-up codes were the first three? 422 00:29:15,801 --> 00:29:20,763 And and then it was, you know, maybe if somebody cared, they would go beyond the 423 00:29:20,783 --> 00:29:22,678 first three, but it was the first three. And so it well, yeah, it was it was yeah, but it was 424 00:29:22,698 --> 00:29:25,282 According to the data, it was the first three. 425 00:29:25,302 --> 00:29:26,492 It wasn't necessarily 426 00:29:26,574 --> 00:29:31,184 always the first it according to the data, it was the first three, but you never 427 00:29:31,204 --> 00:29:35,756 really got that differentiation. So all this wonderful thinking about you know, 428 00:29:35,776 --> 00:29:40,155 adding more choice in there, it it makes things more difficult for that that 429 00:29:40,175 --> 00:29:41,602 frontline user. So that's 430 00:29:41,622 --> 00:29:44,823 That's where I I go with it. I know that's not necessarily a field service role, but 431 00:29:44,843 --> 00:29:46,611 it's the same kind of thing, right? You're people Yeah. It's exactly the same. 432 00:29:46,723 --> 00:29:50,866 are gonna do what's easy and quick. You talked about having that customer looking 433 00:29:50,886 --> 00:29:55,081 over over their shoulder. They wanna get things done quickly for that customer and 434 00:29:55,101 --> 00:29:58,782 get out of there. They want to show that they're a competent technician. 435 00:29:58,802 --> 00:30:02,637 So they don't want to look like they're fumbling around with a tool at all. 436 00:30:02,657 --> 00:30:06,029 I know what I'm doing. I'm gonna fill this out this way, but done. 437 00:30:06,049 --> 00:30:09,216 This is the way I've always done it. Cus please sign here, Mr. 438 00:30:09,236 --> 00:30:11,324 Customer. And then and then they're gone. 439 00:30:11,344 --> 00:30:17,724 And you know, so it it needs to be more about the situation where you're going to 440 00:30:17,744 --> 00:30:21,043 you know do more to make their job easier. 441 00:30:21,063 --> 00:30:27,364 You to sell them that value proposition of this actually makes your life easier. 442 00:30:27,384 --> 00:30:33,764 And here's why. And it's not a situation where you go, it makes my life easier to 443 00:30:33,784 --> 00:30:40,165 know more data about you so I can make things more efficient and more profitable. 444 00:30:40,185 --> 00:30:44,535 You'll get a bonus at the end of the year if our our profit sharing comes in. 445 00:30:44,555 --> 00:30:48,509 They they're they're thinking much more in immediate terms about that. 446 00:30:48,529 --> 00:30:52,199 So it's how you're going to you're gonna make it easier for them. 447 00:30:52,219 --> 00:30:53,417 And try to do all those Right now. 448 00:30:53,525 --> 00:30:58,211 things afterwards. Yeah, try to do all those things afterwards in some kind of 449 00:30:58,231 --> 00:31:03,098 post-processing afterwards. I, you know, service reports are an interesting thing 450 00:31:03,118 --> 00:31:07,020 for me. And I've I think to be fair, I I think just about the the 451 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,112 you know, automotive dealerships have it down to a T. 452 00:31:10,132 --> 00:31:15,015 You take your vehicle in and they give you a full report where it's like check boxes 453 00:31:15,035 --> 00:31:19,625 on what the part, you know, this is what I saw, this is why I did check, check, 454 00:31:19,645 --> 00:31:22,601 check, check, check. Do all these different checks. 455 00:31:22,621 --> 00:31:27,445 They give you the information all on there very, very easily, succinctly, very easy 456 00:31:27,465 --> 00:31:32,230 to fill out. You know, there's little tiny spot at the bottom, say I replaced your 457 00:31:32,250 --> 00:31:36,024 brake caliper. Done. Easy. but it provides a really great visual. 458 00:31:36,044 --> 00:31:41,931 And that's why I think there's actually a lot of people that are not we're thinking 459 00:31:41,951 --> 00:31:47,839 about things from a service report to standpoint of too rigid, too, you know, white 460 00:31:47,859 --> 00:31:53,747 papery almost. This is everything I did. This is all the scientific data behind it, 461 00:31:53,767 --> 00:31:59,298 especially in you know spaces

I am, which are very regulatory and you know the 462 00:31:59,318 --> 00:32:05,420 aerospace and medical and these things, they they have all this paperwork as well. But 463 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:10,165 You know, is there ways that we you can make this better for people so that it is 464 00:32:10,185 --> 00:32:14,794 more visual? So you give it to people to be like, yeah, I I brought this in, it 465 00:32:14,814 --> 00:32:19,715 looks great. I don't have to dig through a 30 page report for you know the condition 466 00:32:19,735 --> 00:32:24,636 of my machine. I've always found that that is and that also makes it easier then for 467 00:32:24,656 --> 00:32:29,265 the technician, because the technician then doesn't have to use three pieces of 468 00:32:29,285 --> 00:32:33,776 software to assemble this giant PDF for the for the technician to say, you're 469 00:32:33,796 --> 00:32:36,589 calibrated now. You know, everything looks good. 470 00:32:36,609 --> 00:32:42,495 Yeah, I think it's y it's interesting to hear you talk about the short term versus 471 00:32:42,515 --> 00:32:48,329 the long term. And I think that actually does drive some of the field technicians 472 00:32:48,349 --> 00:32:54,163 that I've been out in the field with, which is they are trying to get that report 473 00:32:54,183 --> 00:32:58,197 done right now so that they can move on to the next job. 474 00:32:58,217 --> 00:33:04,247 But the irony is the next job, if somebody else did that work and didn't document it 475 00:33:04,267 --> 00:33:06,264 well, there's a good chance. 476 00:33:06,284 --> 00:33:09,716 That the next job that they go on is going to take longer and be more of a pain 477 00:33:09,736 --> 00:33:13,788 in the neck because the documentation that they have to work with isn't good. 478 00:33:13,808 --> 00:33:18,124 Right. And it seems so obvious and it's easy for you and I to talk about this here 479 00:33:18,144 --> 00:33:21,773 because we're not out in the field feeling the pressure of that work. 480 00:33:21,793 --> 00:33:26,162 I get that. So I'm I'm not trying to be overly idealistic on this, but I I do think 481 00:33:26,182 --> 00:33:30,499 that there's something to that. That there's an opportunity for us to communicate. 482 00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:35,682 Like, yes, it's actually gonna cost you. I I found myself talking about this on the podcast a lot. 483 00:33:35,702 --> 00:33:39,403 I must feel pretty strongly about this. But you know, yes, we're we're saying this 484 00:33:39,423 --> 00:33:43,625 might take you two or three minutes longer to close this ticket out right now. We acknowledge 485 00:33:43,645 --> 00:33:48,239 that. We recognize that we're not going to beat you over the head for taking a few 486 00:33:48,259 --> 00:33:51,784 minutes longer on this work. The payoff is actually downstream. 487 00:33:51,804 --> 00:33:56,455 The payoff is that if we know that we've worked on this exact same pump twice, that 488 00:33:56,475 --> 00:34:01,633 the third time we send somebody else out, like we should be more prepared for that, for that 489 00:34:01,653 --> 00:34:04,172 service visit, right? And 490 00:34:04,192 --> 00:34:07,028 I don't know that we always do a good job of communicating the why. 491 00:34:07,048 --> 00:34:10,226 I think we often go to them and say, Well, this is gonna make your job more 492 00:34:10,246 --> 00:34:13,722 efficient. And I think in the short term is you may be looking at this and saying, 493 00:34:13,742 --> 00:34:16,536 It's actually not gonna be more efficient for me right now at all. 494 00:34:16,556 --> 00:34:21,281 Yeah. No, it's exactly right. They feel, you know, every time that they're minute 495 00:34:21,301 --> 00:34:25,851 that they're there, they feel like they're getting those those, you know, eyes 496 00:34:25,871 --> 00:34:30,655 buried in the back of their head, like burned into the back of their head from the 497 00:34:30,675 --> 00:34:35,459 customer. And they wanna really how can I I manage this and and get out of get out 498 00:34:35,479 --> 00:34:40,204 of this situation, provide them what they want, do a good job, how can I do that? 499 00:34:40,224 --> 00:34:45,008 in rapid fashion. And that's they don't want to be there any longer than they have 500 00:34:45,028 --> 00:34:46,415 to, because then they're 501 00:34:46,435 --> 00:34:51,194 They're in under the scrutiny of the, you know, the the the customer. 502 00:34:51,214 --> 00:34:54,588 And I've seen you you see this in in NPS resorts. 503 00:34:54,608 --> 00:34:59,992 Well, the technician was listening to an audiobook and it was taking too long. 504 00:35:00,012 --> 00:35:04,841 And I feel like you're charging me by the hour, so it's taking no, Mr. 505 00:35:04,861 --> 00:35:10,521 Cusper, we weren't. It's a set price. We apologize about that, but there are times 506 00:35:10,541 --> 00:35:16,340 when the machine actually has to run itself to like calibrate, so it has to work and 507 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,886 I if you don't want them to that's fine. So they they feel like they're under this 508 00:35:20,906 --> 00:35:23,659 microscope every time that they they do something. 509 00:35:23,679 --> 00:35:28,094 if they take too many phone calls to help other technicians out, they do that as 510 00:35:28,114 --> 00:35:30,700 well too. So there's a lot to be said for that. 511 00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:35,358 I want to get in, get out, get my job done, get to the next place, have a good, good 512 00:35:35,378 --> 00:35:40,016 customer experience, make sure that I I solve my my issue and I can, you know, check 513 00:35:40,036 --> 00:35:41,624 that off my list and then go. 514 00:35:41,644 --> 00:35:47,818 Yeah. I tend to focus a lot on the problems and when things go wrong. So let 515 00:35:47,838 --> 00:35:51,395 me let me flip this around a hundred and eighty degrees. 516 00:35:51,415 --> 00:35:56,634 Any stories come to mind

about where you've seen the teams that you've been around 517 00:35:56,654 --> 00:36:01,873 be unusually successful with the adoption of new process and and technology in the 518 00:36:01,893 --> 00:36:03,982 field? And tell me how that went. 519 00:36:04,002 --> 00:36:12,283 Yeah, we at one place we were launching a chatbot tool with all the technology and 520 00:36:12,303 --> 00:36:20,381 documents behind it. And the why it was such a successful launch, it and it took 521 00:36:20,401 --> 00:36:29,493 some time, was the early kind of inclusion of technicians and a few people from the field. 522 00:36:29,513 --> 00:36:34,004 Into kind of the focus groups and they started building the tool for them. 523 00:36:34,024 --> 00:36:38,149 What do you want to see out of it? Okay, here's the first iteration. 524 00:36:38,169 --> 00:36:41,014 Let's see, test it, test it, break it, go back. 525 00:36:41,034 --> 00:36:45,952 And it was it six to eight months that it that it took to eventually launch that. 526 00:36:45,972 --> 00:36:48,513 And then it was launched out to the field. 527 00:36:48,533 --> 00:36:53,207 And then there were more, as you launched it, the more people there were more 528 00:36:53,227 --> 00:36:58,205 issues. But the support teams were there having phone calls, doing demonstrations. 529 00:36:58,225 --> 00:36:59,608 This is how you use it. 530 00:36:59,628 --> 00:37:02,201 And I think I knew that it was really successful. 531 00:37:02,221 --> 00:37:06,594 You know, you could talk about the number of unique users and queries and all these 532 00:37:06,614 --> 00:37:11,040 other ways you can metricize it, but I knew it was really successful when I was in a 533 00:37:11,060 --> 00:37:13,263 training room talking to some technicians. 534 00:37:13,283 --> 00:37:17,709 And one of the technicians turned to me and goes, Hey, you know, a month ago you you 535 00:37:17,729 --> 00:37:20,356 talked to us about putting this tool on our phone. 536 00:37:20,376 --> 00:37:24,537 Can you show me how to do that? And that was kind of the light bulb moment that 537 00:37:24,557 --> 00:37:29,382 said, Okay, now this is starting to this is starting to gain its own you know steam. was 538 00:37:29,402 --> 00:37:34,210 that was that brief interaction. So it's it I don't think it's easy or short. 539 00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:38,788 And I think it requires a lot of back and forth feedback to do correctly. 540 00:37:38,808 --> 00:37:43,428 And you have to really you have to make it useful so that you have all the 541 00:37:43,448 --> 00:37:47,316 connections on the backside so the data is there and accurate. 542 00:37:47,336 --> 00:37:52,584 Cause it's difficult once you've launched into production, it's very, very difficult 543 00:37:52,604 --> 00:37:55,406 to say if they find errors in it to, you know 544 00:37:55,426 --> 00:37:59,553 put that back because you you lose that little window that you get with that person. 545 00:37:59,573 --> 00:38:03,602 'Cause as soon as they say this new tool and you they start playing with they say, 546 00:38:03,622 --> 00:38:06,862 it doesn't work, then they they don't want to ever touch it again. 547 00:38:06,882 --> 00:38:12,959 Yeah. You know, that's near and dear to me also, because in our business and my day 548 00:38:12,979 --> 00:38:19,752 job, we can actually let them have those first experiences in the simulation platform. Yeah. 549 00:38:19,938 --> 00:38:25,109 So we kind of take all that production risk away from the first impression that 550 00:38:25,129 --> 00:38:30,037 we're giving the teams. And this is something we advocate for all the time. 551 00:38:30,057 --> 00:38:34,637 We don't always get buy-in from the project team, but it's it's really 552 00:38:34,657 --> 00:38:37,164 An awesome way to be able to leverage a tool. 553 00:38:37,184 --> 00:38:41,434 So again, it's like we're we're just putting users into simulations of these 554 00:38:41,454 --> 00:38:45,984 workflows. But I think the more we can close the gap between what they're used to 555 00:38:46,004 --> 00:38:50,421 and what they think they're about to go into, the easier we can make that whole 556 00:38:50,441 --> 00:38:55,028 process, right? And so we've if we've given them their first impression, the first 557 00:38:55,048 --> 00:38:59,803 experience that they have in the new system and the new workflows and the new process 558 00:38:59,823 --> 00:39:04,290 inside the simulations in our platform, then when they do run in. 559 00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:08,038 To that hiccup, because they will, because things happen. 560 00:39:08,058 --> 00:39:12,247 That's not like devastating to their first impression, you know? 561 00:39:12,267 --> 00:39:16,419 but it's interesting to hear you talk about how the adoption, you know, kind of 562 00:39:16,439 --> 00:39:20,696 built over time. And, you know, in the software world, we would call that product 563 00:39:20,716 --> 00:39:24,921 market fit. It's like you, it's it's not just like a checkbox, but it's when you 564 00:39:24,941 --> 00:39:29,093 feel being pulled into the market. And in your case, it's being pulled into the 565 00:39:29,113 --> 00:39:31,786 workforce that people are starting to ask about it. 566 00:39:31,806 --> 00:39:33,688 That's exactly where you want to be. 567 00:39:33,708 --> 00:39:39,077 Yeah, it's exactly right. And it's you know, it it's a it it's a very, very I don't 568 00:39:39,097 --> 00:39:44,401 know, almost like a nice edge, right? To be able to go from that that situation to 569 00:39:44,421 --> 00:39:49,206 back backwards. And launching it though and doing it in a way where people 570 00:39:49,226 --> 00:39:54,531 understand that they have support and and putting the support out there and having 571 00:39:54,551 --> 00:39:58,686 the calls and the training and all these things, very important. 572 00:39:58,706 --> 00:40:02,518 Otherwise you you don't

get that because you will, you know 573 00:40:02,538 --> 00:40:06,535 50% of people who try it won't even or more won't won't contact support. 574 00:40:06,555 --> 00:40:11,222 But those people who do, you hold on to them because they're gonna give you the gold 575 00:40:11,242 --> 00:40:15,686 that's gonna allow you to be able to make that next iteration and make the thing 576 00:40:15,706 --> 00:40:20,206 work and it and and and work with them. So that's that's where that support is is 577 00:40:20,226 --> 00:40:24,782 very, very important. You know, you talk about sandboxes and you know, we're gonna 578 00:40:24,802 --> 00:40:27,404 test these and test this software in a sandbox. 579 00:40:27,424 --> 00:40:31,311 And I love that idea. I just don't see it a lot actually in the field. 580 00:40:31,331 --> 00:40:36,555 too much. They're just like the cost, the, you know, the burden rate of a technician 581 00:40:36,575 --> 00:40:39,614 is generally pretty high, particularly in the US. 582 00:40:39,634 --> 00:40:44,733 So, you know, I need to not spend a lot of money to have them twiddle around with, 583 00:40:44,753 --> 00:40:49,977 you know, playing with a a new development tool, particularly if I'm going to launch 584 00:40:49,997 --> 00:40:54,909 it for everybody. And that's I think that's actually very short-range thinking. 585 00:40:54,929 --> 00:40:57,051 I think long term you need to have 586 00:40:57,164 --> 00:41:01,326 that because you're gonna need to have these people that are bought into the tool if 587 00:41:01,346 --> 00:41:05,359 it's the main tool you're gonna use and can then be that ambassador for everybody 588 00:41:05,379 --> 00:41:09,343 else who's gonna come down the pike, who's not gonna have the benefit of all the 589 00:41:09,363 --> 00:41:12,500 support you have when you when you start these changes as well. 590 00:41:12,620 --> 00:41:15,999 Yeah. You actually just triggered something in my head. 591 00:41:16,019 --> 00:41:21,068 And if if we have published this document I'm about to talk to you about, I I will 592 00:41:21,088 --> 00:41:25,827 share it in the show notes here. We actually just produced or created a whole 593 00:41:25,847 --> 00:41:30,092 document about the pros and cons of going into a sandbox environment. 594 00:41:30,112 --> 00:41:35,037 And you just talked about this, is that there have been 40 research studies done 595 00:41:35,057 --> 00:41:36,814 over the last couple of decades 596 00:41:36,834 --> 00:41:37,874 Mm-hmm. 597 00:41:37,894 --> 00:41:41,560 about the ineffectiveness, the 598 00:41:41,580 --> 00:41:47,784 Low efficacy of putting users into an unstructured sandbox environment. 599 00:41:47,852 --> 00:41:49,040 Mm-hmm. 600 00:41:49,060 --> 00:41:53,794 And it's interesting because we, you know, in my company, we often get compared to 601 00:41:53,814 --> 00:41:58,084 just standing up a sandbox. And we may even use that terminology at times. 602 00:41:58,104 --> 00:42:02,607 But our version of that is putting the user through a very concise, structured 603 00:42:02,627 --> 00:42:05,970 walkthrough of what they're going to see in that software. 604 00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:10,029 So we're not just dropping them off into a sandbox and saying, go play 605 00:42:10,049 --> 00:42:11,086 with this, right? 606 00:42:11,106 --> 00:42:15,410 But a lot of people do that, which is why your your comment, you know, kind of 607 00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:19,403 struck a nerve, because it's something that we see and hear about a lot. 608 00:42:19,423 --> 00:42:24,615 And your guys don't have time for that. And they end up getting frustrated by that. And so you 609 00:42:24,635 --> 00:42:28,748 make a really interesting point about, first of all, just their time, right? 610 00:42:28,768 --> 00:42:33,261 Their hourly pay. We don't want them in there just kind of like figuring things out 611 00:42:33,281 --> 00:42:37,557 on their own. But that is a mistake. And I believe that the mistake is made not 612 00:42:37,577 --> 00:42:40,005 because they, the project team, is trying to. 613 00:42:40,025 --> 00:42:42,456 Create a bad experience for the frontline teams. 614 00:42:42,476 --> 00:42:45,826 I don't even think it's because they're insensitive to their time. 615 00:42:45,846 --> 00:42:48,482 I think it's because it's a path of less resistance. 616 00:42:48,502 --> 00:42:52,618 It's relatively easy to set that sandbox environment up and say, well, just go in 617 00:42:52,638 --> 00:42:56,908 there and so you can start to see it. But it's ineffective as a learning experience. 618 00:42:56,928 --> 00:43:00,248 It's frustrating. And it's in the long run, it's actually costly. 619 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,191 So it's not actually accomplishing any of the goals and it's costing more money in 620 00:43:04,211 --> 00:43:06,552 the long run. And so we should look for alternatives. 621 00:43:06,572 --> 00:43:10,554 Yeah, and that's it when I when we were working on this one tool, the the real 622 00:43:10,574 --> 00:43:14,865 instead of using a sandbox environment is they had it, they just had hidden links to 623 00:43:14,885 --> 00:43:18,355 it. So it was always in prod whenever it was given to the the teams, 624 00:43:18,375 --> 00:43:21,422 but it was only released to certain team members, right? 625 00:43:21,442 --> 00:43:22,812 And that was where I started Interesting. 626 00:43:22,976 --> 00:43:27,911 with that supervisor-led team, that that little team to to start it, and then bring 627 00:43:27,931 --> 00:43:32,269 a few technicians into it. And it was always in a production environment. 628 00:43:32,289 --> 00:43:36,568 So it was always trying it was as close as a real product as they could. 629 00:43:36,588 --> 00:43:39,193 In the beginning and that worked pretty well. 630 00:43:39,213 --> 00:43:44,094 there were ways, you know, obviously there were definitely misfires, and I I mean it 631

00:43:44,114 --> 00:43:48,879 just it's the way it is when you're developing new, but the the ability to recover 632 00:43:48,899 --> 00:43:53,080 and manage that quickly was I think where this went really, really well. 633 00:43:53,100 --> 00:43:56,926 Yeah. Man, we're coming up at the end already. 634 00:43:56,946 --> 00:44:00,355 I knew this conversation will go quickly. 635 00:44:00,375 --> 00:44:06,878 let me give you one last chance. Any advice you would give to other service or 636 00:44:06,898 --> 00:44:14,154 change leaders about how to improve process and technology adoption on the front lines? 637 00:44:14,174 --> 00:44:16,117 you cut out there for a second, Justin. Okay. 638 00:44:16,137 --> 00:44:19,582 okay. Let me let me restate that. 639 00:44:19,602 --> 00:44:26,143 as my final question, is there any advice you would give to other operations leaders 640 00:44:26,163 --> 00:44:33,251 and change leaders about how to improve technology and process adoption on the front lines? 641 00:44:33,271 --> 00:44:40,333 You I think we spend too much time talking and talking inside offices, and we don't 642 00:44:40,353 --> 00:44:47,501 spend enough time sitting in vans, stuck in traffic, stressing out because you're 45 643 00:44:47,521 --> 00:44:54,669 minutes late for this service call for a customer who is you know is going to be hot 644 00:44:54,689 --> 00:45:02,264 under the collar because their production is behind your machine that is not working. And 645 00:45:02,284 --> 00:45:09,120 So my advice is that you know spend the time to really know what they do on a daily 646 00:45:09,140 --> 00:45:15,728 basis. And then you can have the debate about whether those are value add or not 647 00:45:15,748 --> 00:45:21,015 value add services, but you gotta walk in those shoes for a bit. 648 00:45:21,035 --> 00:45:24,918 You have to drag a tool case. I you know, I had 649 00:45:25,110 --> 00:45:31,519 One of my leaders told me this you had to drag a toolcase through the large factory 650 00:45:31,539 --> 00:45:37,871 to see how difficult it is. Some of these walks from a you know parking lot to the 651 00:45:37,891 --> 00:45:43,061 machine are a mile long. And it it is brutal to to do these things. 652 00:45:43,081 --> 00:45:49,336 And once you learn that, then you'll understand what the real issues are with the 653 00:45:49,356 --> 00:45:54,604 with the organization. You'll understand that that you know plug-in. 654 00:45:54,624 --> 00:46:00,627 signature pad that you thought was great to be able to put in plug into your laptop. 655 00:46:00,647 --> 00:46:05,504 Well, the thing doesn't initialize half the time and it breaks easy. 656 00:46:05,524 --> 00:46:09,591 And then the the tech can't get the signatures correctly. 657 00:46:09,611 --> 00:46:13,249 And it is just an absolute waste of time and money. 658 00:46:13,269 --> 00:46:19,201 So spend the time, walk in their shoes, understand what the issues are, talk to the 659 00:46:19,221 --> 00:46:21,998 customers as well too. And not just the 660 00:46:22,018 --> 00:46:25,901 the higher level, like talk to people on the floor, try to understand it. 661 00:46:25,921 --> 00:46:29,912 Then you'll be able to build better technologies and process for the field. 662 00:46:29,932 --> 00:46:32,545 I I think that is amazing, fantastic advice. 663 00:46:32,565 --> 00:46:35,358 And it's something that I've recommended often. 664 00:46:35,378 --> 00:46:40,207 I try to get my team because none of us are field service technicians and we also 665 00:46:40,227 --> 00:46:43,080 serve some other kind of field based operations. 666 00:46:43,100 --> 00:46:48,048 And so we don't drive trucks and we don't service equipment, but I want my team and 667 00:46:48,068 --> 00:46:49,365 me, I wanna understand 668 00:46:49,385 --> 00:46:53,624 as much as I can about the men and women that we serve out on the front lines and 669 00:46:53,644 --> 00:46:57,932 There is absolutely no way to learn about a day in their life from a conference room 670 00:46:57,952 --> 00:47:01,010 or working from our home office or whatever the case may be. 671 00:47:01,030 --> 00:47:04,601 Like we've just got to go out and get our feet, you know, shoes dirty. 672 00:47:04,621 --> 00:47:07,063 And so I completely appreciate that perspective. 673 00:47:07,083 --> 00:47:11,269 And I think for me, I always tell the team, it's first of all, it's a more fun day 674 00:47:11,289 --> 00:47:14,296 than just sitting it in front of our laptop all day, right? 675 00:47:14,316 --> 00:47:18,502 It's good to get out of the the norm. And always, always, always we come back with 676 00:47:18,522 --> 00:47:21,324 some new insight, some new perspective, a new learning. 677 00:47:21,344 --> 00:47:25,861 that we just we could have been told this same thing, but it doesn't kind of sink in 678 00:47:25,881 --> 00:47:30,399 until you see it, feel it, smell it the same way as the the folks on the front lines 679 00:47:30,419 --> 00:47:34,937 are doing that. And so I think that's great advice and something I certainly support 680 00:47:34,957 --> 00:47:35,918 too. That's great. 681 00:47:35,938 --> 00:47:38,667 Yeah, that's it's always the best way to be. 682 00:47:38,687 --> 00:47:44,290 Walk in their shoes, try to understand what the issues are and then you'll really start to 683 00:47:44,310 --> 00:47:46,925 Yeah. Well, Russ, I appreciate you taking the time today. 684 00:47:46,945 --> 00:47:50,809 Thank you so much for being part of Frontline Innovators and I look forward to being 685 00:47:50,829 --> 00:47:51,780 part of your network. 686 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:55,841 All right, wonderful. Thanks. It was wonderful being here and I appreciate all your time.