บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Coaching Beyond the Mechanics — feat. Cullen Talley (EP. 66)

stand. 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:03.840 So I sold, I was a founder of a snowball stand. 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:05.919 And I do I do joke with clients, stuff like that. 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:06.159 Yeah. 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:08.879 Having to learn pricing, labor, material. 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:12.479 There was a lot of value in that, in that little building, and and we did great. 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:14.240 And we sold it a few years later and stuff like that. 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:15.599 So I I tongue in cheek. 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:16.560 That's right. 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:17.120 I did that. 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:21.279 I was more front-end, so I was more sales, uh bringing that to market. 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:26.639 So you think BizDevin sales more, but I was fascinated with product development, was fascinating about the operations. 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:34.959 So, and and quite frankly, I mentioned that payments company, that CEO, um Ed Lebris, at one point we were at, we were at lunch, and you know, I'd had a lot of success as a sales guy. 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:38.079 I was, you know, top five every year out of 300 and all this kind of stuff. 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:41.519 And, you know, I was pretty full of myself in my 20s, and I was like, what do I need to do next? 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:46.000 He said, You need to learn the rest of the effing business because right now you're only so valuable to me. 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:52.160 And it was a and it was a critical moment for me because it woke me up to if I wanted to grow my career, I need to see more broadly. 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:53.600 Uh, but back to your question. 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.560 In the last role I had, I'd actually moved into a COO role. 00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:02.160 There was a family that had a group of companies and they'd asked me to come in because they'd seen some of the background I had. 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:14.560 Um, so we actually moved to California and uh was there and got introduced to this work, this idea of running mid-sized companies with some tools and some systems and stuff like that in a way that the larger companies I had been in, we had. 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:20.079 We had those consultants come in, we did that planning and stuff like that, but I'd never really seen it for small to mid-sized companies. 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:22.079 So that was my last experience. 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:24.560 And we took that company in the year that I was there. 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:27.040 We we uh doubled the revenue and tripled the profit. 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:33.360 And we had team members 17, 18 years old, and we had some pretty senior team members, and it a light bulb went off for me. 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:34.639 Like, this is powerful. 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:36.879 And I I'd always been committed to the company I was with. 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:42.000 I was like, man, I think I can go do this and do this and make a bigger impact with more companies. 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:44.639 And that was the original idea, very divine moment for me. 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:47.360 It was a lot of soul searching, a lot of a lot of introspection on that. 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:52.800 So to me, I thought it would really be in a God moment in terms of that moment of because I felt like there was kind of a moment of download in that. 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:55.680 And that was the that was the spark that said, let's go figure this out. 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:00.000 And what what how'd you find EOS? 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:02.959 Uh we had hired an implementer when I was out there. 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:09.120 So that was my original connection was was we hired an implementer at that company and he came in and brought us through the process. 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:11.680 How long was that process for you guys then? 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.160 Uh well, I was there for just over a year. 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:16.000 So basically uh right around a year. 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:19.600 Were they still they still in the process when you left? 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:20.399 Yes. 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:24.319 And it then it kind of petered out because I was really the one holding it together. 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:29.600 Um and that founder is a very uh what's the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.720 So uh anyway, not necessarily as as uh committed to that same process all the time. 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:40.800 Yeah, it's uh you know, I would say that founder is more of an entrepreneur than a founder, then would you agree? 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:41.360 Mm-hmm. 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:42.800 Yeah. 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:43.360 Yeah. 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:47.600 So some some people just can't, I mean, that they just need the adrenaline rush of the next thing. 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:57.360 And it's and it's kind of like whatever their needs are bigger than the needs of the team or the company because it's just how they're wired. 00:06:57.600 --> 00:06:57.680 Right? 00:06:58.160 --> 00:06:59.040 That's where they get that juice from. 00:06:59.199 --> 00:06:59.279 Yeah. 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:02.000 It's just what and and he he's done amazing things. 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:04.879 But yeah, that was has he continued to be a serial entrepreneur? 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:16.639 He has, uh, but at the same time, scale has not been a thing that they've been able to reach, but yes, been able to create and uh do that, but not at a level that you could see the real opportunity to scale the business. 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:18.560 And that was really what I was there for in the beginning. 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:19.120 Yeah. 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:19.839 Yeah. 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:23.040 And so so you had this experience with EOS. 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:27.519 Um, and then was it you know, you had the download. 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:28.160 Yep. 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:37.040 And uh

and was it pretty much I'm gonna just go do this because I know EOS, I you know, I understand that and you talked to the implementer about potentially joining the uh the community. 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:38.079 What was the process? 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:42.639 I talked to yeah, so I I looked into the certification, I looked at you know, so multiple systems. 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:46.639 So I looked at EOS, I looked at scaling up, I looked at, I think 40X had a system. 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:50.560 There was a couple of different systems out there because I was most familiar, but it was the only one that I knew. 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:51.040 Right. 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:53.759 Um, and so uh that's where I went. 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:55.439 But I also thought I didn't want to just do that. 00:07:55.519 --> 00:08:02.720 So I actually went and got certified in exit planning at the same time because I really I was had come from the world about building value, not just having a successful company. 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:02.959 Yeah. 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:06.319 How do we build something that has real enterprise value, right? 00:08:06.639 --> 00:08:10.000 Because I was used to having investors and shareholders in the company, yeah, you know? 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:15.439 And so went to uh BEI and got certified in that one week, and then the next week got certified in the EOS. 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:18.480 And so my my vision at the beginning was really connecting with that. 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:26.480 And my original thesis was I was only gonna work with investors who are making investments and then for their companies and they're like that's not how it's turned out. 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:26.720 Yeah. 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:31.439 Uh but my my uh my initial thesis was I'm not calling on individual companies. 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:38.960 I'm gonna be dealing with investors that are making these investments who are great at financial models and predicting, but aren't so good at helping operate companies. 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:39.360 Yeah. 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:40.559 And then I would be that arm. 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:43.279 And we've done some of that, but it really hasn't how the business is. 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:44.480 It's amazing, right? 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:46.960 How well we can go down a whole rabbit hole in that. 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:48.480 So BEI, right? 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:50.720 Was that Business Exit Institute or what was it? 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:52.879 Yeah, business enterprise institute or something like that. 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:53.600 There's two of them. 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:55.120 It's not the SEPA group, it's the other group. 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:58.960 It's not at a dance, at a exit planning institute, which is the SEPA group. 00:08:59.120 --> 00:08:59.200 Yeah. 00:08:59.360 --> 00:08:59.440 Right. 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:00.080 It's not them. 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:01.679 It's Yeah, they're huge. 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:02.320 They're huge now. 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:02.639 Yeah. 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:06.639 At the time, they were kind of what, what, but uh that group, the Exit Planning Institute's done a great job on that. 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:08.879 Yeah, we're a we're one of their partners. 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:11.759 Yeah, and one of the coaches on my team is a CEPA and stuff like that. 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:13.039 So we we think that's tremendous. 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:19.360 Yeah, yeah, they've done a they've done a really good job of uh figuring out how to position it. 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:24.159 And you know, it's it's kind of funny because you know, you can get the CEPA, you talk about it. 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:25.519 It's it's just theirs. 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:26.320 They just made it up. 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:27.759 It's like it sounds like a CPA. 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:28.720 Yeah, yeah, right. 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:32.639 But you know, CPA wasn't invented by one firm to the best of my knowledge. 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:34.399 Whereas they created CPA. 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:37.360 Now they've sort of dominating this industry they created. 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:37.519 Yeah. 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:38.559 So hats off to them. 00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:38.879 Yeah. 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:39.360 Agreed. 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:39.679 Yeah. 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:40.159 Agreed. 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:43.039 So um so it's interesting. 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:46.559 So you you looked at scaling up, you you looked at EOS, 40x. 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:47.919 I is 40x around anymore. 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:48.240 I can't. 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:48.799 I don't even think so. 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:49.519 I don't think so, right now. 00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:50.240 I don't think so. 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:56.240 Um, and then you joined EOS, but you also got the the the exit planning certification. 00:09:56.480 --> 00:09:56.960 Yep. 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:15.840 Um, you know, it's funny when I first started to really go the direction that we have today, it was um, you know, it was around 2012, right? 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:16.320 Right. 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:25.840 Um, and I went and, you know, I had the idea for the company in tw in 2005, but you know, I got recruited hedge fund and did a bunch of different things. 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:32.639 And one of the companies I invested in personally was just starting on EOS, right, in 2010, I think. 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.519 Um and you know, so I read traction. 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:39.120 I'm like, well, this is a book I was gonna write when I first started thinking about it in 2005. 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:45.120 And um, and so I went in there, but with the background that I have private equity, yeah, right. 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:51.039 I was like, look, I understand the private equity world really, really well. 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:53.200 Kind of grew up in that world.

00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:57.440 I grew up with that world, really, because it was leveraged buyouts back when I started. 00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:57.840 Yeah. 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:14.080 And I just knew that in order to really go after that industry and to have something compelling for it, I had to have like you know, these five things figured out and nailed in in the in the product. 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:18.399 And to this day, I still haven't don't have them all nailed. 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:18.639 Yeah. 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:20.559 I feel like we're getting really, really close. 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:21.039 Right. 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:30.639 And so, um, so so I mean, I'm literally putting resources right now behind, okay, this is what we got to do so we can finally get in front of these people. 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:43.919 Because I think every company is going to have to have what I'll call a level seven operating system within the next couple of years, or else it's gonna be really hard for them to be successful. 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:57.440 And if they and and with a level seven operating system, if you don't have it, I think you're going to be at risk if you're trying to do things with AI, if you have agents, you can't see everything, you're gonna be at risk that things are gonna get screwed up. 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:09.440 And as a fiduciary, as a board member, part of your responsibility is to make sure that the governance layer of an organization is um very strong. 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:09.840 Sure. 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:18.639 And now the new organizations are gonna have both on you know, humans and non-humans, and so they're distributed organizations, and it's just gonna be really interesting. 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:30.399 So I think we're gonna be in a really good place to go after the uh private equity and venture capital um firms and say, hey, you know, you need to be thinking about this, and hey, your companies need to be going this direction, and hey, we can help you. 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:36.720 But that's a long, you know, that's that's that's for foreshadowing or get in front of ourselves right now. 00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:54.240 So going back to the um you join you join EOS and uh what do you think of the coaching like your experience back in 2020 and eighteen? 00:12:55.759 --> 00:13:03.600 How's the industry, what you do, how you deliver value, how's it evolved for you in particular? 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:05.200 You now have your own firm. 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:06.159 Correct, right? 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:15.039 Yeah, uh, you teach your own system, um all operating systems have a lot of fundamentals, yeah. 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:22.240 Tools that are concepts, tools, and disciplines that are everybody pushes believes in weekly meetings as an example. 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:23.039 You know, yeah. 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:26.399 You need an accountability chart or an org chart as an example, right? 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:26.799 Right. 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:29.279 You need scorecards as an example. 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:34.240 There's a bunch of stuff that it right from system to system to system, the tools are the same. 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:35.759 It's like building a house, right? 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:42.000 Everybody's got, you know, all the builders have hammers and saws and screwdrivers and things like that. 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:44.240 But a lot's changed too. 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:44.879 100%. 00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:45.759 Yeah. 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:57.120 So take me through, I'd love to hear your journey in terms of you know what you've learned, what you emphasize, because you went through EOS. 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:01.679 You also been associated with scaling up. 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:02.000 Yep. 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.559 So you and those are kind of the two biggest. 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:04.960 Yeah. 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:07.759 And and in between there, we did some time with the pinnacle group as well. 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:08.159 Right. 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:12.720 And and and so, and then you you could say for a while pinnacle may have been third. 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:13.279 Yep. 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:13.840 Right? 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:14.399 Yep. 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:27.679 Um But really, you know, because then then you also have a couple others um like jackstacks, I forget what he calls it, but I don't see them or hear about them much, but I don't know if you do. 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:28.639 We don't. 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:41.519 But yeah, so uh to answer your question in terms of the evolution, you know, when I got in, I think part of it and part of it was the system uh at the beginning was I think more the tactics, the mechanics of of running the system. 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:45.039 Uh I think it was overly operationally focused. 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:48.399 And and I I couldn't understand oftentimes there's a lot of people in operations. 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:50.879 There's a lot of opportunity financially in operations. 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:51.120 Yeah. 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:57.679 What we've noticed is um our clients, and we've been fortunate to attract larger and larger clients, more complex clients. 00:14:57.840 --> 00:14:57.919 Yeah. 00:14:58.159 --> 00:14:59.919 We need to be able to speak across the business. 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:04.480 And so one of the things I've noticed is a lot of the coaches were good in a area. 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:07.600 Maybe they were financially driven, they come from finance, they come from ops. 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:15.919 And very few, interestingly enough, came to me from them from the front end, the marketing and sales piece of the business, a few with some tech capabilities and so forth. 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:21.200 Uh, but what I've noticed for us is we we need to be adept at speaking across the business. 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:21.519 Yeah. 00:15:21.679 -->

00:15:23.840 Uh it can't just be very ops-oriented. 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:27.039 And that's why I think even operating systems sometimes is not helpful. 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:38.399 Uh so for us, we have recognized you have to be, and when we're uh evaluating a new coaching candidate to join the team, I need to see that they understand marketing, sales, ops, finance, people, technology. 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:42.000 Like they've got to have uh, and there's others, obviously depending on the industry, right? 00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:44.559 They've got to have that ability to speak across this. 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:48.000 You don't have to be expert, but you can't be incapable. 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:48.480 Right. 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:53.679 Um and I, you know, for us, one of the things that we notice is a lot of the coaches struggle on the front end for their business. 00:15:53.759 --> 00:16:00.879 And I'm like, if you as a coach aren't able to deliver a message to the market and close and take people through a sales process, that's a concern. 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:02.960 And I think some of the clients are picking up on that. 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.039 Certainly we've had the opportunity to win deals at multiples of what other people were charging. 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:07.279 Right. 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:08.960 And that's really been some of the feedback for us. 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:12.080 So like we can see the conviction that we can see the obsession you have about it. 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:17.759 But as I got into it, the next thing that I noticed was many of the systems really lacked a couple three things to me. 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:20.159 Number one, they they lacked financial rigor. 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:31.360 There was some basic predicting and basic performance, but there was not real financial rigor in looking at margins, looking at variances, looking at trends, looking at ratios, and especially in the world we've been in the last five years, right? 00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:39.600 With the sheer number of changes we've had in terms of interest rates and tariffs and supply chain and obviously the pandemic, like there's a lot that's happened that's had a material impact to finance. 00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:40.720 So that was the first piece. 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:43.600 And I noticed though I talked to a lot of the coaches, uh, that's happened. 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:44.799 So we're seeing an evolution there. 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:45.919 That's that's what we're tracking. 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:50.320 The other is really leadership development because the systems lack that. 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:57.039 And there are certainly leadership programs, but I'm always like, what changed the next day or the next week if we're gonna train on something? 00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.759 And that's one of the things that I thought, you know, EOS did incredibly well. 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:03.759 And one of the things that I saw early on,

and that, you know, we've retained in the way that we do some things. 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:08.799 There's some, there's an obsession around can I teach you something that facilitates you through something? 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:13.839 And tomorrow and next week, you're a different person, different company, not all the way fixed, but materially different. 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:25.200 And I have been obsessed about the leadership development side because as our the comp the companies we've had that have scaled 50, 100, 200, 500 employees, it's a different game than 10, 15, 20 in terms of that thing. 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:27.599 Because at 10, 15, 20, you can kind of keep your hands on everything. 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:28.240 You know what I'm saying? 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:29.839 You're not really developing leaders. 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.400 You've got a leader, a few leaders, and then you've got basically people doing the work that are incredibly valuable. 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.599 We want to take care of them, but you're not having those layers of that, right? 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:41.200 And obviously that's getting challenged right now in terms of how many layers we need and all that. 00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:46.559 So leadership development was the was the the second thing that we that we really focused on in terms of that. 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:48.720 And the last was really strategy, right? 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:52.240 Because to me, strategy is a word that gets thrown around a lot. 00:17:52.400 --> 00:18:08.319 Um, but they're not really talking about I think a lot of systems had vision and they had some execution, but I felt like there was this massive chasm about what is the strategy that we're gonna go execute against beyond just this vision of who we believe we are and what we're committed to and this kind of softer things that are really powerful. 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:11.440 And here's our one-year plan, and here's the spreadsheet of things we're gonna do. 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:13.599 What is the strategy we're gonna take to the market? 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:16.799 And um, as again, as we get bigger, more important. 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:19.279 Because obviously when we're smaller, we'll take whatever work to stay. 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:20.960 We just I joke about some of this concept. 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:22.880 When you started, you were just trying not to die, right? 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:24.880 Cash was oxygen, we're trying not to die. 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:29.759 So for me, that's where the evolution has come in and the success that we've experienced in our growth and being an Inc. 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:37.359 5000 company and and the and the and the success we've had in terms of now we're coaching over currently over$1.5 billion in coached revenue currently. 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:38.960 Um so it's material. 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:41.920 And I think those three things uh have really helped us. 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:49.039 And I think that's where the evolution to me of the coaches that are doing that, and certainly we can have a whole other conversation about the AI component, everything else. 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:59.359 Um, but that to me is where the coaching, where I see some of the coaching systems and people struggling as they haven't adapted to what the owners and key leaders need. 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:05.440 And I think those three things to me have been critical for our success and where some of these systems are kind of getting left behind. 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:05.920 Right. 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:16.400 Are they getting left behind, in your opinion, by the companies who need more because they're scaling faster and or they're larger? 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:39.279 Or do you think just generally speaking, that the you know, the the the operating system coaching the business, even for companies with 25 to 50 employees, do you think do you feel the same level of change taking place? 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:44.559 Or do you feel like yeah, the demand is like, no, we gotta Yeah, the expectation is growing. 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:50.160 I mean, I mean I mean entrepreneurs and founders are getting smarter, obviously, margins are getting compressed in a lot of businesses, stuff like that. 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:53.519 So um they're just sharper and and their access to information and data, right? 00:19:53.759 --> 00:20:06.640 You know, so I I think the challenge for a lot of systems is their IP or their kind of um, you know, folks that have been there a long time, the loudest voices in the room are staying committed to that system. 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.759 It's like it's kind of like, you know, we're in football season now, right? 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:16.240 And it's like, you know, at one point, you know, defense was a bigger part of you can use I'm an LSU fan, but we'll talk about Nick Saban for a minute. 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:22.240 You know, at one point, obviously Lynn Kim is our coach now, but at one point, you know, obviously Saban was very, very committed to defense. 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:26.079 It was not, but then he recognized the game was changing and they had to adapt. 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:26.319 Yeah. 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:30.960 And they did and they dominated, but they adapted with a much more offensive view of things. 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:34.559 And this is where I think many of the systems are not moving fast enough. 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:37.119 And I think part of it is because of how hard it is. 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:37.359 Yeah. 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:42.880 Part of is you got some tenured folks who just, well, this is how I've been doing this 20, 30 years and really successful. 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:44.640 I'm like, yeah, but the world has changed. 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:44.880 Yeah. 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:50.000 And the other part is what are we actually protecting in terms of our our

books, our IP, and all that kind of stuff? 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:53.519 And like, how do I take the thing and then adjust? 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:54.400 Right. 00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:55.119 Yeah. 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:55.599 Yeah. 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:56.000 Yeah. 00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:57.359 So that's been a challenge for sure. 00:20:57.519 --> 00:20:58.079 Yeah. 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:05.119 And then has the has your model, your delivery model, you know, the EOS delivery model as an example. 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:08.559 And I and I and you uh I think you understand the scaling up model. 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:08.960 Yep. 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:12.000 The US model was five sessions, right? 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:13.839 Five day-long sessions a year. 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:14.319 Yep. 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:20.319 Um, first year different combination of days versus thereafter, yeah, right. 00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:24.400 Thereafter is three quarterlies and two days for an for the annual. 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:35.839 Um, but it was really five sessions and for lots of coaches, uh implementers, if it's an EOS thing, right? 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:52.559 Um you didn't need to and in some regards maybe it was even healthy to not really be engaging with the client in between those five sessions, and those sessions are spread out in ninety days, right? 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:57.599 Are you where's your world and how do you guys play it these days? 00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:58.160 Yeah. 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:02.000 So what I Refuse to be is a fractional employee. 00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:03.599 So let me just say that right up front. 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:09.039 That said, uh what I have come to notice is there absolutely has to be other interaction. 00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:10.319 Um, a couple things for us. 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:13.839 Number one, we have uh that that framework makes sense. 00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:15.599 Lots of people do quarterly planning, annual planning. 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:17.519 That's not new to you, but yes, that model makes sense. 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:21.519 Yes, there's more work on the implementation, what we call implementation up front in terms of getting this system in. 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:23.039 Is that is it three days, is it four days? 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:24.240 Kind of depends on the client. 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:26.319 And can we do it in 30 days, six days, nine? 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:29.920 There's some flexibility based on what the client needs and our calendars and so forth. 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:35.440 Um, once the client is implemented and up and running, our approach is really on-demand advisory. 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:45.599 So uh I use a lot of voice apps because I don't want my calendar to be full, but I have I have voice notes every single day from owners and key leaders on a particular topic, an update, a question they have for me and stuff like that. 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:47.200 So we have

that open. 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:50.640 Uh what I joke with them and say is you got a bat phone with me and my coaches. 00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:55.519 Meaning when you need to put the bat signal up and you need us, there's gonna be some days you need to talk to me three times. 00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:58.079 And we don't maybe not talk again for a month. 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:01.680 But you need to know in that moment, I'm close enough but far enough. 00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:05.920 I'm emotionally invested, but it's not mine, and I'm not financially tied to the result. 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:10.319 So you gotta you got somebody who knows your people, knows the plan, knows what has helped you create it. 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:10.480 Right. 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:17.680 And so has some objectivity and some ability to say, yes, you've lost your mind, or no, make the move, or here's what I'd be concerned about. 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:24.000 And so that's what you know, the feedback I get from my clients that are six, seven, you obviously met with one yesterday with us that is seven years in. 00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:25.680 I'm like, hey, there's no more tricks in the bag. 00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:26.480 Why, why are you? 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:28.160 I know we like working together and stuff like that. 00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:29.279 We've done great things. 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:30.480 Tell me why you're still here. 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:44.079 They're like, in those moments that I need somebody that I trust that is, again, aware of my world uh and can speak into me and knows that I have that have my best interest at heart, you're the call, right? 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:44.400 Right. 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:46.160 So we that's one piece that we're doing. 00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:48.799 The other thing we've started last year, and I quite frankly, I was surprised. 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:54.240 I had resisted this for a long time because I didn't want to be in the events business, but we're doing a CEO event twice a year. 00:23:54.400 --> 00:24:00.160 And we're bringing in our clients, our active clients can bring the CEOs can come in and we put them all in the room. 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:01.440 We do a day and a half. 00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:04.559 Uh we have each of what we've done is set again outside speakers. 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:05.839 One, you can't sell anything at it. 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.720 It's part of our program, so there's no cost to you except getting there. 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:17.440 And then we, I and my team help select uh several of the CEOs that are coming to teach on a product or a topic. 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:17.599 Yep. 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:20.000 So for instance, Brandon Bills is one of my clients out of Temperzo. 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:21.680 They have grown that brand incredibly. 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:32.559 So Dave Dickers, CEO, comes in and talks about the power of a brand for a mid-sized company and how they went from zero to what they've gone to in terms of brand recognition at the top on our golf courses, all the universities, everything else. 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:33.519 And so he did that. 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:41.440 I had um Jared Freeman, a CEO of uh On Path Federal Credit Union down in New Orleans talk about uh growing and scaling and being aggressive in a regulated market, right? 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.359 So like these topics, and so what's been cool is we're having our clients present. 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:46.880 So it's real stuff. 00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:47.200 Yeah. 00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:48.559 And it's not just the highlight reel. 00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.640 I'm like, listen, I need you to also talk about what's broken, what's effed in your company, and they do. 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:53.519 So we do that. 00:24:53.599 --> 00:25:04.319 We have some other and have them, you know, talk through that, and then we do a hot seat on day two where they have to get up, each CEO has to bring their biggest thing to the table, and then we put someone up at the front of the room and we just rapid fire. 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:06.000 That has been received incredibly well. 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:09.759 So on-demand advisory, CEO event, we just launched this past year. 00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:12.480 Um, we did our first second in command, same type of event. 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:13.440 Bring those folks in. 00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:15.440 Again, probably gonna do that twice a year. 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:21.759 Obviously, the 90 integration is huge for us because we um we're sold out to it and we know the power of it. 00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:28.400 So that's it, that's another thing we get a lot of feedback about is that we um help them use that platform incredibly well. 00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:32.799 Um and then we've just finished a new leadership curriculum because I couldn't find one. 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:37.680 So we've built it from the ground up based on some core principles we believe in that we're just now launching. 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:43.680 And so that'll work because um it's gonna allow us to continue to develop those second leaders. 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:48.720 Because two years ago, we started adding in what I call second-level facilitation. 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:48.960 Yeah. 00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:52.240 So for some of our clients, we will run the executive team through the quarterly, right. 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:57.359 And the day or two later, we'll do a half day um departmental quarterly. 00:25:57.440 --> 00:25:59.519 So we're actually facilitating that for the departmental leader. 00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:03.200 Because I made the mistake early on thinking each of those leaders had seen me do it enough, they could do it. 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:03.359 Yeah. 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:03.920 They can't. 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:04.160 Yeah. 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:04.880 And it's hard to do. 00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:05.279 It's hard.

00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:08.640 Listen, when I facilitate my own, it's hard to facilitate and participate. 00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:10.079 So anyway, that's the other thing. 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:15.920 So long answer to your question, my point is that no, it's not, it's you you you could do it that way. 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:22.640 We believe there's a better uh opportunity to really make an impact with clients with more than just the traditional stuff. 00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:23.200 Yeah. 00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:27.359 It's uh how many how many CEOs do you how many companies do you have now? 00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:28.640 Uh we're 75. 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:29.519 75. 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:32.400 And um, what percentage of the CEOs actually show up? 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:33.119 50 percent. 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:36.319 We've already got 35 registered for New Orleans in November. 00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:37.599 So and we'd probably pick up a few more. 00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:38.960 Is this your third time? 00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:39.599 Third time. 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:40.079 All right. 00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:42.000 50 percent plus or minus each time? 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:42.319 Yep. 00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:45.200 Because that's that's pretty damn good participation. 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:51.119 Do you find the same 50 percent or is it Yeah, and obviously you got new clients rolling in, you've got some clients. 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.200 I mean, there's people that are rolling out, stuff like that. 00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:55.599 So yeah, but it's been interesting, this core group. 00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:55.920 Yeah. 00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:57.359 Um, it actually surprised me. 00:26:57.440 --> 00:26:59.279 Like I didn't, because I mean, these CEOs are busy. 00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:01.119 Yeah, they don't need more stuff on their calendar, right? 00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:09.200 But they've started to create this connection because they had tried some other peer group offerings and we're like, I need to be in a room that challenges me. 00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:11.920 I don't want to be the biggest player in the room. 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:14.720 And with the work that we do, we push them hard, right? 00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.720 Like we're we're not the we're not the transit gym says, hey, like we we are pushing the companies. 00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:20.559 This is an intensity to the work that we do. 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:21.039 Right. 00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:28.319 And so they want to be around other CEOs, you know, that he or she has that same kind of pace in the business, right? 00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:29.200 Which is critical. 00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:33.519 Because a lot of them, even in their industry, they're like, these guys aren't moving like we're moving. 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:34.000 Right. 00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:37.759 Is it I've known you obviously for a long time. 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.680 Um, and uh and just full disclosure, you're an investor. 00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:42.079 Yes. 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:42.480 Right? 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:45.920 So we're we're we're we're we're we're we're buddies. 00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:56.400 I've always loved your intensity, and I presume that your clients tend to be folks who are attracted to your intensity. 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:06.400 And I presume that when you're in a room or your coaches are in a room, especially if they've done work with you, because I think that's part of your model, right? 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:06.880 Yeah. 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:21.119 Um the clients who are attracted to you are the clients who want to really bloody build something and go fast and go far and I hate to say go big, but but they care, right? 00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:30.720 They're driven and and and and what's interesting is um you know I've bought I've belonged to um a number of peer groups. 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:34.240 I've I did the EO thing a long time ago. 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:37.039 Um I do the Vistage thing today. 00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:37.680 Right. 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:55.599 And I've done did the SaaS founders peer group for um since I started during COVID and then it actually got disbanded. 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:58.079 Um kind of. 00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:00.880 It was Dan Martell's SAS Academy thing. 00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:14.960 Um when Dan decided, you know, I I I think Dan decided that you know SAS was going away and and he wanted to move and do some other things, and so he kind of shut down Sass Academy, then he sold it. 00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:22.400 Um but um with it and that was all within the last year, um probably about a year ago. 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:38.480 What was fascinating was, you know, when I and I was you know sort of a goat, um and by the by the end of it all, and actually I wasn't paying anymore because I was literally there as someone to coach and help help people. 00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:38.720 Yeah. 00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:40.640 And it was a great experience for me. 00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:48.160 Um and we went from 15-ish, which was Dan's original sort of promise, boardroom's only gonna have 15 people, you know. 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:50.960 Um, and then you know, it got all the way up to like 60 people. 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:51.279 Yeah. 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:51.680 Right. 00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:55.200 Because you know, you know, you charge money, you make more money. 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:56.640 More people, more money. 00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:59.119 Um there's there's there's a saying there. 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:12.720 But what was what was fa what's fascinating or is that um a lot of the people that were in port boardroom on the day that it became clear this was the last day, yeah. 00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:13.440 Right. 00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:17.839 Um, which is a day I'll never forget because they didn't actually say it. 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:20.480 You just you knew what was going on, right?

00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:21.039 Right? 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:26.160 But they like they weren't weren't sure if they were just gonna shut it down and do something different. 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:37.440 And um but on that day, you know, like and there was I think that group had sixty and you'd have like I'd say fifty show up. 00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:38.079 Right. 00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:49.680 Now remember, these are people that are paying, um, I forget what the paying uh pay what they're paying per month was, but um let's just say it was probably fifty K a year or something like that, huh? 00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:50.400 Yeah, something like that. 00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:50.720 Yeah. 00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:51.839 Right? 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:54.000 Um so they're paying the 50K. 00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:56.079 So, you know, when you're paying, yeah, you show up. 00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:59.839 So I'd say it was like 80 to 90 percent um show rate. 00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:02.799 And you know, and and they did a lot of interesting things. 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:10.160 Um uh a couple things like they had, you know, they'd have outside um people come in to challenge you. 00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:12.559 So there was we did a fire breathing thing one time. 00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:18.559 I I uh um repelled down a 50-story building um one time. 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:33.440 We did Navy SEAL training one time, we did um exit like exit training from a like a helicopter that crashes, kind of you know, so we did a bunch and uh uh fire walking, a bunch of so they had stuff like that in it. 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:41.599 So, you know, um but there's also you know people that would come and speak, and then a lot of us would also speak on topics, right? 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:44.400 So, you know, and and and we all loved being together. 00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:44.880 Yeah. 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.480 So they closes it down and everybody's like, this is it. 00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:52.000 And the amount of sadness in the group was palpable. 00:31:52.319 --> 00:32:00.480 And so what's fascinating is a lot of those people have been reaching out and saying, we gotta reform something. 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:01.440 We get right. 00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:22.079 And so we so literally within the last um two weeks, uh we went out and said, Hey, we're thinking about you know doing something, and you know, we're gonna bring in this guy uh to facilitate uh who's who's got his own coaching company, but it's focused on technology, a guy who I'm huge friends with and love. 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:26.960 But um what they wanted to do was just basically have it be virtual. 00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:30.960 And what was fascinating was everybody's like, no, no, right? 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:38.240 And and they they they said, look, you know, we if we're gonna do this, yeah, it's gotta be at least three times a year. 00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:38.640 Yeah. 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:39.519 Right. 00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:52.559 And um, and then in between, you know, we can have uh sessions, um, virtual monthly, but then if you're gonna do these coaching and you're gonna have these small little groups that get coached, they're like, ah, we don't want that, yeah. 00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:52.960 Right. 00:32:54.640 --> 00:33:00.960 Just the desire to get together and be in person, right? 00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:03.279 To your point, right? 00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:16.799 I think with you know everything going on in this world right now, yeah, the the need for a community where you're literally together is becoming it's it's like a real thing. 00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:17.200 Yeah. 00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:23.200 Listen, man, I I skipped uh uh screamed and kicked on my way to doing this. 00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:26.880 And we did our first one, learned a lot from that, felt like there were some things we could do better. 00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:27.839 We did our second one. 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:29.119 And the clients loved it. 00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:32.079 We and we asked for very direct feedback on how we can improve it. 00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:37.920 Um and so you know, there's some key things that we did, which was we're not selling anything, there's nothing to buy. 00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:43.680 We want connection, we want real results in the room, real experts, not become an outside speaker, but it just lowered that. 00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:46.880 And then, yeah, you're right, connecting with people that are trying to do the to do the thing. 00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:48.240 Light-minded, right? 00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:48.559 Yeah. 00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:51.440 That's where I go back to talking about you as a human, right? 00:33:51.680 --> 00:34:04.960 Just that bringing that intensity and then so you know, and having other other founders who are comfortable with and I presume the what's a percentage of your companies that still founder-led versus CEOs? 00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:06.559 Uh mostly founder-led. 00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:08.159 I mean, I say that. 00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:18.880 We deal with we we've attracted a fair amount of um multi-generational family businesses just because it's probably it's probably half and half in terms of that, that's not a multi-generation. 00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:29.760 So we got a CEO that wasn't the founder, and then yeah, I would say probably it's probably half and half, or maybe a little bit more on the next generation or next owner versus original founder. 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:34.079 Yeah, so I mean it's interesting. 00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:43.519 A third non-emotionally connected leader and two-thirds emotionally connected leaders. 00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:44.000 Yeah. 00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:44.239 Yeah. 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:44.639 Yeah. 00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:44.960 Yeah. 00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:45.280 Yeah. 00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:47.039 And I think it I love that you bring up that. 00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:53.840 And obviously I'm

I'm proud of my intensity, but one of the things that I've noticed is yeah, I think it's the initial attraction to us, and certainly part of what we've attracted. 00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:02.480 I think the reason many of our clients have stayed and what I've evolved to in my coaching is really get into the place about the opportunity to really do good, good in the world. 00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:02.960 Yeah. 00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:17.519 There's just some amazing stories in terms of impact we've had for entry-level employees, for drivers on a forklift, for guys spraying pest chemicals, stuff like that, the impact we have had and and and really, and really helping uh my founders, CEOs, and leadership teams recognize that. 00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:20.639 So my intensity is probably the sizzle up front. 00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:31.760 But what I've noticed is the fact that I helped them understand how we can we can take this high performing, financially successful company and make real impact on humans and then really celebrate that. 00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:36.960 The last two days with the client I had up here, uh, it was really a celebration of a goal we set. 00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:38.159 It was six people in the room. 00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:39.920 That was the entire company seven years ago. 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:40.079 Yeah. 00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:43.360 15x the company in in the last seven years. 00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:43.599 Yeah. 00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.320 Like it was just like, guys, let's just breathe that in for a minute. 00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:51.199 So it's interesting as I've evolved, part of it's probably my age, but the intensity is kind of that front end. 00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:55.199 And and my clients do, especially early on, they like that because they're trying to try to figure out how to find that. 00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:58.800 As they've grown, they feel like they've lost so maybe they've diluted because they're spread too thin. 00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:00.559 Well, I I think, you know. 00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:08.960 I sh I share your I I'll I'll call it belief, right? 00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:19.280 That look, the only way you're gonna build a great company is by building a great company that has great people. 00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:19.599 Yeah. 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:20.239 Right? 00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:20.559 Yeah. 00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:24.000 And so, you know, getting back to your point on leadership, yeah, right. 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:30.159 It's look, guys, you know, then it's and and and because I want to drill more on what you're doing on the leadership side, right? 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:36.159 But it's it's look, guys, you know, as goes the leadership team, so goes the rest of the organization. 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:37.039 Right. 00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:48.480 And so, and and if if you can't get your leadership aligned and you can't get your leadership team, right, recognizing that for them to be successful, the people that

work for them need to be successful. 00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:53.280 And for the company to be successful, you really want everybody to want the company to be successful. 00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:53.599 Yeah. 00:36:53.760 --> 00:37:04.239 And if you got a bunch of people below the leadership team that you know are are sort of throwing bombs and you know, d not liking one another, and it's just an unhealthy environment, right? 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:06.639 That's just that's just it's not gonna work, actually. 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:08.639 It's enlightened self-interest, right? 00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:19.440 Which is why, you know, almost I would say within two years of me getting into the coaching game, I started pushing all of my clients to certify great place to work. 00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:24.639 So all of my clients, right, always certified great place to work, right? 00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:28.000 And and and you know, six, seven, eight years, right? 00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:29.920 Yeah certified in a row. 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:32.559 Um, and then you know, we do it ourselves. 00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:44.880 Um and you know, barely made it by the skin of our teeth last year because you know, we had to let people go, um, and that kind of sucked, and you know, yeah, and it shows up in the results. 00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:51.119 But, you know, but the focus on just being uh the on the humans, yeah. 00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:51.679 Right? 00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:52.239 Yeah. 00:37:52.639 --> 00:38:00.239 It's like you get you, you know, you can be all aggressive and everything else, but if you don't get that, you're not gonna win. 00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:00.639 Yeah. 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:00.960 Yeah. 00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:09.440 And if they don't feel part of the winning, that's the thing that's so interesting with some of these small to mid-sized companies because they get nervous about sharing the vision, the plan, the strategy, especially the financials. 00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:09.679 Yeah. 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:11.360 I'm like, guys, I hear you. 00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:15.599 All I can tell you is we have all this information from all these companies you work with. 00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:17.199 People want to be part of a winning team. 00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:18.400 They also want to feel secure. 00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:18.639 Yeah. 00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:19.599 How do we help them see that? 00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:22.800 One, that you have a plan, two, that we are winning because they want to do it. 00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:24.480 And I always use the analogy of people with sports. 00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:25.840 People are passionate about sports, right? 00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:26.639 Like crazy. 00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:27.679 We won the Super Bowl. 00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:28.639 You run on the team. 00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:32.159 You don't own the team, but you still feel like you won. 00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:32.400 Yeah. 00:38:32.559 --> 00:38:32.719 Right? 00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:34.880 Whatever, oh, you it doesn't have to be sports. 00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:36.400 You'd be music that you can be passionate about. 00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:37.840 You feel a part of it. 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:41.679 Why wouldn't somebody who's working in the organization have that same connection to the company? 00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:48.639 What percentage of your, because what percentage of your companies they all I presume they all share revenue? 00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:49.760 Uh yes. 00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:51.039 All share revenue. 00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:51.599 Yeah. 00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:56.400 Do uh I presume that they share either gross margins or operating margins. 00:38:56.639 --> 00:38:56.800 Yeah. 00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:02.400 So I would say probably I would say 95, there may be one person, but I would say 100% share revenue. 00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:02.800 Yeah. 00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:11.199 I would say um close to 90% are going to share gross margin and 80, 85% are going to share net margin or eBay. 00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:11.679 Wow. 00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:13.119 So we we push it hard. 00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:13.440 Yeah. 00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:22.320 Because I'm like, listen, gang, first off, first off, if you if they if they don't have, if your teams don't have basic financial literacy, they can't help you do it. 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:26.639 So if they don't know what cogs are and overhead is, they can't help you manage it, right? 00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:26.880 Yeah. 00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:31.039 And you're going to get great ideas from frontline folks when you start to help them understand what we're trying to do. 00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:37.840 Secondarily, in a world that's got a lot of chaos, when you show people profit is we are winning and we can reinvest in you. 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:39.440 Profit is the fuel for growth. 00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:45.840 So when we make money, what that lets us do is hire more, buy better systems, put you in a nicer office, buy the machine. 00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:49.840 We get to do those things and prepare for inevitability. 00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:55.920 So if you're concerned about security and you may live paycheck to paycheck, it's nice to know there's a leadership group that's saying we have a plan. 00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.880 And then they start seeing you hit that plan quarter over quarter. 00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:03.039 And be honest, when you don't, they start to understand, okay, I'm safe here, right? 00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:05.840 If we go back to Maslow's hierarchy, what's the most basic human need? 00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:08.400 And if I'm in an entry-level role, that's always the thing. 00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:10.480 Like, I don't want to share profit, they're going to ask me for a race. 00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:12.960 I'm like, well, that's a that's a cultural issue. 00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:18.719 Want people to make a fair wage, and as long as you're in pay bands

and range and you've done some research about what's a then you should be able to do that. 00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:23.360 And if they add value and increase the value of the company, then we should share that with them after they've done that. 00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.159 But anyway, that's the fear initially for a lot of folks. 00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:26.480 Yeah. 00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:33.519 Um, but we we're we're pretty it's not required, but it is strongly, strongly uh suggested. 00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:34.400 Let me just say it that way. 00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:45.440 Aaron Powell Do you have you found yourself helping the companies think about how to share in in in in sort of in the riches, if you will, and and share in the profit improvements and things like that? 00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:49.119 What percentage of your companies buy into that? 00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:58.320 You know, it so uh the the plans are really formal and probably a smaller percentage, but helping understand when we outperform that there's an opportunity. 00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:05.840 I wouldn't say it's direct profit sharing, but certainly when we are winning, having c uh people understand there's bonus opportunities or whatever else. 00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:09.360 So I don't they don't all have a true profit sharing program. 00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:09.760 Right. 00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:13.760 Um but I would say I mean, listen, obviously labor is getting more and more expensive. 00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:17.440 So it's it's happening by by default, especially some of the markets we serve. 00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:17.760 Yeah. 00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:20.719 Um but yeah, it it's in it's innately there. 00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:23.039 There's a couple with a with a real clear program. 00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:30.480 But again, with some of the size companies, you know, it takes a minute for them to get to that point uh in terms of a of a true profit sharing program. 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:43.760 Aaron Ross Powell You talked about three things that you you're focused on doing that you think is a little bit sort of next generation in terms of supporting companies as a as a as a coach. 00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:50.480 Um the leadership side, are you is there and I know you you've just said you've created a curriculum. 00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:51.840 A curriculum, right? 00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:59.519 Is it is that become sort of non five days kind of work? 00:41:59.760 --> 00:41:59.840 Yes. 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:01.440 Is that how you guys are handling the other thing? 00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:11.360 Because my first I first, because we started doing the second-level facility, second and third level facilitation, I was seeing some things in kind of the VP, senior director, director. 00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:14.480 I was like, we've got to get some some soft skills in here. 00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:17.440 We've got to start having some of these, we say we've got to hold them more accountable. 00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:18.880 Okay, like how, right? 00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:20.559 Like, how do we how do we do that? 00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:22.880 Just like we know how to run a weekly meeting. 00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:24.719 We run, we know how to address score. 00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:26.239 How do I hold people more accountable? 00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:27.679 We need some how in that. 00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.320 So um I saw it there, but then I backed up. 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:37.840 So I was building in that for that originally, and then I had this awareness like, wait a minute, some of my leadership teams, even with very successful companies, need some of this as well. 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:41.760 So we've built it to where we can plug it into part of our quarterly. 00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:46.079 So instead of a new tool, we basically take that hour, hour and a half and plug in that. 00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:48.320 And we've got a couple of different ways we can sequence it. 00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:52.239 So as long as six months, where most of the teaching is happening in those three quarterly. 00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:57.199 So Q1, Q2, Q3, we get it all delivered because there's tools associated with everything else. 00:42:57.360 --> 00:42:59.840 And we see it as a standalone for that next level. 00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:00.079 Yeah. 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:11.119 Um, we also see it, quite frankly, as an opportunity for clients who don't use us for strategic planning, who may have another coach for us to get involved, get engaged, and show how we're different and what we do. 00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:16.239 Um, so I don't necessarily know we're gonna do a ton of that front end, but I do think it's an opportunity. 00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:16.719 Yeah. 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:20.639 And and you're and you're actually putting it are uh we haven't talked about this. 00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:26.559 Are you gonna be putting it in the the tool section in within the 90 institution? 00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:26.960 Absolutely. 00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:27.119 Yeah. 00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:27.360 Yeah. 00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:29.039 So we use the knowledge tab, we'll build that out. 00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:33.760 Because the cool thing now with the collections is we can turn it on and off and we can make it available to different teams. 00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:40.239 So with the advancements you've made with the knowledge tab, it now before we wouldn't have been able to do it, but now uh like within the mastery days and stuff like that. 00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:40.480 Yeah. 00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:45.599 So with the way the knowledge tab has been architected, we're going to be able to leverage it, which we're super excited about because it allows us to deploy it. 00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:49.440 In fact, we just started now using uh the knowledge tab for even our session prep. 00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:52.880 So we have different things we're doing, like with the engine we just did,

we're directing them back there. 00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:56.559 So the knowledge tab has been a place, really a repository for us for those kinds of things. 00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:57.280 So we'll go there. 00:43:57.679 --> 00:43:58.079 Cool. 00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:00.800 Um That makes sense. 00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:02.320 Let's move over to strategy. 00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:02.960 Yep. 00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:08.719 So I have an uh I think an unusual perspective around what strategy is. 00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:09.519 Imagine that. 00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:09.920 Right? 00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:10.719 Imagine that. 00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:11.199 Right. 00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:30.800 So I believe that there are five unavoidable stages of development, going from basically the idea of a business to a exceptional company that you can confidently and competently hand off to a next generation of leaders and or um or owners, right? 00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:35.840 And I believe that strategy at its core is about winning each stage. 00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:37.360 Right? 00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:40.559 Because you got to win the stage to move to the next stage. 00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:41.039 Sure. 00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:41.519 Right. 00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:53.440 And I believe that most of the coaching communities are focused on companies that are at stage three, which is where you're you're now systemizing, right? 00:44:53.840 --> 00:45:00.400 You know, the the someone always shows, you tell me if I'm wrong here, but I believe 90 plus percent of the time, right? 00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:06.000 They're open to coaching because they're suffering from pain. 00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:09.760 And I believe the pain they're typically suffering from is people pain. 00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:10.239 Yeah. 00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:10.719 100%. 00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:11.280 Right? 00:45:11.440 --> 00:45:11.599 Yeah. 00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:24.400 And what happens is you get to the place where, okay, now I need marketing and I need sales and I've got ops, and maybe obviously, depending upon the industry, um, there's even a lot more departments than that, right? 00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:28.639 Finance, obviously, um client success, right? 00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:32.480 We we've got like, you know, 12 departments in our company, right? 00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:37.519 Um, and you hire these people, especially founders, right? 00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:47.599 You hire people who look like they've been there and done that, and then they come in with their own damn playbooks and their own damn perspective of performance, their own opinion on culture, their own this, this, this. 00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:50.719 And next thing you know, you turn around and you're like, I can't stand my company. 00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:51.119 Yeah. 00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:51.679 Right? 00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:53.280 So this is crazy. 00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:56.159 I can't believe I've built a company that I've ended up hating. 00:45:56.239 --> 00:45:56.480 Yeah. 00:45:56.559 --> 00:45:56.960 Right. 00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:04.000 And I've talked to a lot of founders, and this is a like a hundred percent occurrence, right? 00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:07.039 So you get to this place where like, what the WTF? 00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:08.159 I can't believe I've done this. 00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:27.440 I got to figure out how to get everybody on the same page, all believing in where we're going, all aligned around all these things that are really in critical, like performance management, KPIs, weekly meetings, you know, whatever feedback system we believe in quarterly conversations they want to have, right? 00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:32.480 And and and like, and then where they're working well together. 00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:38.800 There's not silos, there's not, you know, a bunch of you know inviting and yeah, yeah, crap. 00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:39.280 Yeah. 00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:40.159 Right. 00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:43.199 And so that so that's stage three, right? 00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:48.559 And and and so winning that stage is basically getting everybody on the same page. 00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:49.119 Yes. 00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:49.599 Right? 00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:50.239 Yes. 00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:54.800 And and and you know, and sometimes it's not just about the leadership team. 00:46:54.880 --> 00:47:00.239 It's it could be the founder, the co-founders, you know, the COO and the and the and the CEO. 00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:05.360 Yeah, well, especially when you have multiple owners, and we've got a lot of companies that have multiple owners, and there's times where their their relationship is good. 00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:05.920 I've had several. 00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:07.599 I'm like, I get that you're good friends. 00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:09.119 You guys get to hang out, you love each other. 00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:10.159 Yeah, that's awesome. 00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:17.039 She and and you and you are are not on the same page about where we're trying to go, even though your relationship exact fair enough. 00:47:17.119 --> 00:47:17.360 Exactly. 00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:17.760 Right. 00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:18.800 That's a huge one, right? 00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:22.559 Well, I just want to get to 20, or I I just want to grow three or five percent, right? 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:24.320 Or well, I want to grow 50%. 00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:24.880 Yeah. 00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:26.400 I mean, that's a big disconnect. 00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:26.639 Yeah. 00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:29.360 I want to go like aggressively pursue this. 00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:32.079 Well, I I think we're fine right here, right? 00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:34.639 Yeah, because it impacts my distributions. 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:36.000 Right. 00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:37.280 Yeah. 00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:37.840 Right. 00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:38.320 For sure. 00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:43.039 So so that's why, you know, to me, right, and

I go through all five stages, right? 00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:46.480 But to me, it's about, okay, what do we need to do to win this stage? 00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:46.880 Right. 00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:47.199 Right? 00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:48.559 That's what strategy is all about. 00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:57.039 And and I and I'm curious, you know, and you can knock me back and say you're wrong, but to me, that's what strategy is all about. 00:47:57.199 --> 00:48:02.800 When you're teaching strategy, are you are you more along the lines of like blue ocean and things like that? 00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:04.800 Or what what when you say strategy, what do you mean? 00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:08.000 Yeah, so I think initially, and obviously this is continued to involve it. 00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:12.239 I think this is the air, once we get this, once the leadership curriculum's done, that's the next thing for me. 00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:14.639 Because I think we've done a great job on financial rigor. 00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:16.800 I'm now really proud of the workers on leadership. 00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:23.360 And so I think we we were doing some things well on strategy, uh, but I uh just like leadership now, I'm I'm feeling called to the next version of that. 00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:27.360 So I wouldn't say there's a particular body of work we necessarily use on that. 00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:28.639 But to your point, I agree. 00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:35.440 They're trying to get everybody on the same page in terms of that, which then leads to once on the same page, do we do it the same way? 00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:36.880 So system process, right? 00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:38.719 So it's like we collectively do it the same way. 00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:38.960 Right. 00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:41.360 Like so it's like, okay, we agree, we want to go do this thing. 00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:46.079 Now I can't have one estimator estimating projects this way and another estimating another way. 00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:46.239 Right. 00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:49.119 So it's like it's like we agree here, then the next thing for us is that. 00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:50.880 Then to me, it's a differentiation cycle. 00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:58.400 So it's like what what I think a lot of the mid-sized companies don't think about is once they've had that level of success, they're now built to serve a certain type of client. 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:03.599 And what got them up was they basically would say yes to anything, because again, right, don't die. 00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:04.880 That's that's that's the marching. 00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:07.840 So genuinely being honest about an ideal customer profile. 00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:08.400 Correct. 00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:08.639 Absolutely. 00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:12.880 And genuinely be honest about the compelling value proposition three, and what do you call them? 00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:16.800 Uh we call it, I mean, so it's it's really ideal client and then brand

promises. 00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:19.920 And really and we really stand for the brand promise and then differentiated activities. 00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:20.239 Right. 00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:21.119 So how are we different? 00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:22.400 Not better, but how are we different, right? 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:24.159 And there's obviously a lot of great examples around that. 00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:34.000 But so for me, the ideal client piece is one that we we do in the beginning, but it really doesn't come to life until we get a little further along because it requires you to say no. 00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:34.239 Right. 00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:37.360 And many founders and key leaders are not good at saying no. 00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:42.960 And what I have to help them understand is you have built a machine that is built to serve a certain client. 00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:43.280 Yeah. 00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.880 And you may have been serving this other client for the last 20 years, 50 years, whatever. 00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:48.400 We're gonna have to say no. 00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:48.639 Yeah. 00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:56.480 And a lot of times, part of the people changes we have made in the process have helped because it you remember how we had to make this change and this people function, and that was an amazing person for a long time. 00:49:56.559 --> 00:49:58.239 And then the company outgrew them. 00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:02.000 The same thing is happening for you with your clients, your customers. 00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:07.119 There are certain customers and clients that you can be grateful for for the season that they were appropriate for your business. 00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:07.360 Yeah. 00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:08.639 They are no longer appropriate. 00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:17.599 And as long as you keep saying yes to them and you don't pay attention to the fact that your overhead doesn't make sense to start up a project of this size, we have a problem. 00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:21.039 So there's the ideal client discipline around that, getting clear about that. 00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:25.679 And and I tell you the thing we've added there that's been helpful is not just who they are, but who they aren't. 00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:26.079 Yeah. 00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:26.800 100%. 00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:27.119 Yeah. 00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:28.880 So it's like it's not just, oh, this is who we want. 00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:30.000 No, it's like who are they not? 00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:30.239 Yeah. 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:33.599 And I tell you that, who are you, who are they not questioned has been powerful. 00:50:33.679 --> 00:50:33.840 Yeah. 00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:35.840 And it's forced people to really think. 00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:37.119 So then it's the brand problem. 00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:37.920 What do we stand for? 00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:39.679 Like, what are we going to promise to the market and deliver? 00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:40.719 And how do we

measure that? 00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:40.880 Right? 00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:42.960 Because it you can say, we're unique this way. 00:50:43.039 --> 00:50:45.920 And it's just, it's just, I mean, honestly, it's crap. 00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:46.159 Yeah. 00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:56.480 And so it's like when we've synthesize it down, and there was, I was looking at some Harvard Business Review stuff on this, it's really helped us get clear about that in terms of what is the promise we're going to make to the market more than how we're unique. 00:50:56.639 --> 00:50:57.920 And how do we measure it? 00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:03.119 So if I'm going to make this promise, what are the what are the things on my scorecard that show me we're actually hitting that? 00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:03.519 Yeah. 00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:04.880 It's it's it's funny. 00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:10.079 Um who gives a damn if you're unique? 00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:10.559 Yeah. 00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:11.119 Right? 00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:12.480 That's not what they're buying. 00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:12.800 Right. 00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:14.639 They're not buying you being unique. 00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:14.960 Right. 00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:15.360 Right. 00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:16.400 They're buying something. 00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:16.880 Yeah. 00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:22.320 And now the question is, do most of your customers say this is why we're buying from you? 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:22.880 Right. 00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:23.280 Right? 00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:24.480 Plus or minus. 00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:24.719 Yeah. 00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:41.119 And and then, you know, I remember a long, long time ago uh sitting with um what is now a multi, multi, multi, uh, billion dollar private equity firm in its first year or second year. 00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:42.960 Won't go say the name. 00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:53.280 Um, but they had a model that was very transactional. 00:51:56.559 --> 00:52:01.280 They did everything they could to like buy stuff as cheap as possible. 00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:11.760 And the it became relatively well known for backtrading, you know, last minute, because you know, when you're doing due diligence, you can always find shit. 00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:12.239 Sure. 00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:16.400 And if someone's, you know, you spent two or three months, right? 00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:19.199 You can smell the right the lucre. 00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:26.400 And next thing you know, it's like, well, this, this, this, this, this, we're gonna cut your price by twenty percent or fifteen percent, right? 00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:34.159 Everybody's leaked out to the company, you know, the investors, like there's all this pressure to just close. 00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:34.639 Right. 00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:38.159 And back then it was like that was just their game. 00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:38.800 The playbook. 00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:40.159 That was their playbook, right? 00:52:41.199 --> 00:52:50.880 And

they had they didn't have that playbook just with the companies they were buying, they had it with their lending partners as well. 00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:51.920 Right? 00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:59.599 And so we're sitting here going, I have a funny feeling you're just not buying what we're selling. 00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:00.960 Right? 00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:01.280 Right. 00:53:01.519 --> 00:53:04.159 Because we were selling a long-term relationship, right? 00:53:04.239 --> 00:53:05.599 You could depend on us. 00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:09.199 If we say we're gonna get this done early on, we're not gonna trade on you. 00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:09.519 Right. 00:53:09.679 --> 00:53:09.920 Right. 00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:15.519 And then the we're not gonna trade on you is like, well, we're gonna trade on you, kind of right. 00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:18.480 So it's just they didn't buy what we sold. 00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:19.280 Right. 00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:22.719 And uh literally had that conversation with them, you know. 00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:26.159 And it was, you know, it's kind of like, I can't believe it came out of my mouth. 00:53:26.239 --> 00:53:26.559 Yeah. 00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:28.000 But it was the right thing to say. 00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:28.400 Sure. 00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:29.280 And it was true. 00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:29.760 Yeah. 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:32.159 And so, you know, it's like, okay, yeah. 00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:36.079 We're, you know, there's people gonna have relationships, there's people not gonna have relationships with us, right? 00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:38.079 But I think that's that's the key thing you said. 00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:39.119 Like it's true. 00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:45.519 And this is where I think, you know, coming back to the strategy piece, it's like the reason we go so hard at the IDO client is we're gonna make you apply it. 00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:47.760 This is not just an intellectual exercise, we're gonna apply it. 00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:48.000 Yeah. 00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:50.880 When we do the brand promise, we're gonna figure out again how we're gonna measure. 00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:56.960 When we talk about differ different activities, we're actually gonna make sure if if these are the things that make us different, right? 00:53:57.360 --> 00:53:59.519 What what are they and how do we protect them? 00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:02.400 And how do we make sure that they always happen at that level? 00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:06.559 And where can we get inspiration in our industry, outside of our industry for those other things? 00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:18.400 And so to me, when we talked about that strategy stuff to your point, I think where a lot of it gets lost is this kind of just this ethereal strategic view versus how are we executing against these components of strategy? 00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:23.119 And and and what it's really getting down to is discipline around the commits. 00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:23.679 Yes. 00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:24.000 Right? 00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:24.400 Yes. 00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:30.800 Okay, we said we're gonna do this, we said we care about these people, but 50% of our customers are not these people, right? 00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:32.159 Are we serious or right? 00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:33.360 Are we wasting our time? 00:54:33.440 --> 00:54:40.800 And and um, you know, my my experience has been I'm curious where yours is. 00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:52.079 I think without oftentimes without folks like us like pushing for the it's like a it's like a you know, a training coach, right? 00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:52.880 A hundred percent. 00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:53.280 You know? 00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:54.239 A hundred percent. 00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:56.079 Most wouldn't do it. 00:54:56.320 --> 00:54:56.559 Right. 00:54:56.800 --> 00:54:57.599 Not to that degree. 00:54:57.760 --> 00:54:57.920 No. 00:54:58.079 --> 00:54:58.960 Not that many reps. 00:54:59.119 --> 00:54:59.199 No. 00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:00.480 Not hold for three seconds. 00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:00.800 Yeah. 00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:02.159 It's just not the same. 00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:03.199 It's not the same, right? 00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:04.079 Yeah. 00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:04.559 Yeah. 00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:05.360 So I I agree. 00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:19.039 And I think I think what I see, Mark, and the in the clients we have is even if they've done the work, because even people that have like left and come back, they're like, you made us declare this stuff, but we weren't disciplined to it. 00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:22.159 So for instance, we got our ideal client profile. 00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:29.119 In a in a if I'm only looking at one deal, one opportunity, and I have this profile and this doesn't fit, I can justify that. 00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:35.039 What I and my coach team is we make you pull back and say, if you say yes to that, what are you saying no to? 00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:39.679 Because we do not have unlimited time, we do not have unlimited people, and we do not have unlimited money. 00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:45.440 So when you say yes to that deal that's outside of your ideal client profile, one, why are you doing it? 00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:46.719 And what's the cost on the other side? 00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:47.760 Because there is a cost. 00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:48.320 Yeah. 00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:48.800 Yeah. 00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:49.599 Yeah. 00:55:51.679 --> 00:55:59.840 To wrap up, where do you think the world of coaching and serving customers is going, given everything you know right now? 00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:00.400 Yes. 00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:02.239 I I'm uh incredibly excited. 00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:04.639 I've been telling my coaches for the last really year and a half, two years. 00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:07.920 It was funny, one of my coaches last week, he's like, I see what you said. 00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:09.039 I didn't quite get it. 00:56:09.199 -->

00:56:11.119 I was like, we're going to get commoditized. 00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:12.880 We're going to, we're going to get diluted. 00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:18.719 I've watched, I've watched disintermediation happen before with the work we did in the mobile space, right? 00:56:18.800 --> 00:56:28.000 I watched what happened to services that financial institution partners had, that the carriers had, that the retailers had, that that phone just demolished, right? 00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:32.400 So I have that in the back of my mind all the time, which is exciting to me because that means there's opportunity. 00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:38.480 So I think that the certainly the human connection, it's easy to say, but our conversation about the CEO event, right? 00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:41.199 The leadership development that we're working on, right? 00:56:41.360 --> 00:56:44.960 And then really stepping in to help them make decisions. 00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:53.039 Because I think part of the not, I don't think, part of the challenge for our clients that are successful and have the ability to grow is they can say yes to so many things right now. 00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:56.239 And there's so much coming at them that they need that voice. 00:56:56.400 --> 00:57:00.880 They need that kind of lighthouse in the middle of what even a good storm, right? 00:57:01.039 --> 00:57:02.079 To kind of help them see. 00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:04.079 So for us, it's gonna be less about the mechanics. 00:57:04.239 --> 00:57:05.679 Listen, you're building an amazing platform. 00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:12.880 At some point, like me going or a coach going to the front room and doing the accountability chart work, I can help, but the tool is going to do a really good job. 00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:13.199 Yeah. 00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:14.559 Setting rocks, setting milestones. 00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:17.199 Refined with mass works really good setting milestones. 00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:19.519 Do I need to stand there with somebody and have them walk through their? 00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:20.159 I don't. 00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:20.400 Right. 00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:21.119 Scoreboard. 00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:22.719 Like, and with the data that's in the platform. 00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:24.159 So to me, I'm like, great. 00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:31.519 It allows us just to continue to go upmarket and deliver more of how do we make these moves versus the mechanics of coaching. 00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:40.000 And that's where I think a bunch of the coaches are quite going to get bludgeoned because they're not thinking that way and they're not thinking about how how do I deliver value at a higher level to those folks. 00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:44.960 And I think a lot of the smaller companies are just going to be able to leverage tools like 90. 00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:49.039 And I don't know that they're going to need the coach because I think 90's and I know you're supporting coaches. 00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:55.280 My

position is that there's going to be a lot they can do with the AI tools they're building in platforms like 90. 00:57:55.440 --> 00:58:00.960 And so if you're just going to be there teaching the mechanics of rocks and scoreboard academy, man, you are in trouble. 00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:02.000 And you're in trouble. 00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:03.920 It gets compressed. 00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:04.639 Absolutely. 00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:06.800 So for me, it's a tremendous opportunity. 00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:11.360 Um it's an exciting time, and it's just a m managing of all that. 00:58:11.440 --> 00:58:13.679 Aaron Powell And it's the it's the more interesting. 00:58:14.239 --> 00:58:14.480 100%. 00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:14.960 Right? 00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:15.519 Like yeah. 00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:16.079 I mean yes. 00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:27.679 Obviously, when you when you start this work, it's kind of funny to do that once you've done it for as you have and as I have and have done, you know, uh 700, 800 sessions now and stuff like that, and a lot of clients that we've worked with over the years and taught this a lot. 00:58:27.760 --> 00:58:29.119 It's from stage and so forth. 00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:34.639 Like that work, I do enjoy it, but it's like I don't, it's not quite the same rush as the other work we get to do. 00:58:34.719 --> 00:58:39.519 We're really moving companies forward uh and really digging helping and having these moments. 00:58:39.679 --> 00:58:45.039 We had two yesterday, literally things none of us saw happen where there was just this eureka moment of inspiration. 00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:50.239 We're like, we've been trying to solve this for two years and this prep and this conversation and this moment at St. 00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:52.000 Park City, that is the answer. 00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:52.320 Yeah. 00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:54.800 And we made two amazing decisions yesterday. 00:58:55.039 --> 00:59:00.239 And we had done a lot of prep work, leveraging 90, leveraging the AI tools that they have. 00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:02.480 That it wouldn't have gotten us there. 00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:12.400 We had to get in the room as a set of humans, apply pressure to that situation, using this amazing data that we have and the thinking partner we have in AI, yeah, to then have a human inspirational moment. 00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:12.719 Yeah. 00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:40.320 And so to me, that's what we're going to continue to manage is how do we create those moments of like, and and you don't and you know, it's funny that you bring this up because a couple like selfish personal comments about my old my experience as a as a coach, and I I uh don't have 800 because obviously I had a side job, um, so to speak. 00:59:40.719 --> 00:59:49.679 But um but hundreds and hundreds of sessions and um and probably you know close to a hundred clients over the years as a as a as a coach. 00:59:50.079 --> 01:00:05.920 And to me, if I didn't walk out of that session feeling like there were two or three light bulb moments that never would have happened right without me being in the room, I didn't feel good about myself. 01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:06.559 Agreed. 01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:13.760 And I got to the place where, you know, I would have my uh it was an iPad, right? 01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:16.320 And I'd write notes during the session a little bit. 01:00:16.480 --> 01:00:21.599 Um, and then I, you know, I I would write my, you know, one or two or three light bulb moments. 01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:34.960 And as we concluded, I will say, hey, by the way, you know, I thought these were like light bulb moments, and I just want to make sure that you felt like they were light bulb moments, because then I'll feel good about the work I've done today, right? 01:00:35.039 --> 01:00:39.519 But if there's no light bulb moments, yeah, then I I'm kind of like, why am I here? 01:00:39.679 --> 01:00:40.239 Yeah, agreed. 01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:40.719 Right. 01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:44.320 And and I'll be honest with you, and I told this to my clients, right? 01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:52.400 The latter half of the quarterly sessions, right, where we're just solving problems, I'm bored. 01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:54.960 I'm just being honest, right? 01:00:55.199 --> 01:00:59.119 So, you know, to me, the mechanics of all this stuff, right? 01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:01.199 It's like I'm not there for that. 01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:01.440 Yeah. 01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:02.880 I'll help you guys, right? 01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:04.559 I'll keep you disciplined, right? 01:01:04.719 --> 01:01:04.880 Right. 01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:07.280 But I'm there to help you have those light bulb moments. 01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:10.480 And I'm even okay with me being a little bit bored at the end. 01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:11.119 Yeah, right. 01:01:11.199 --> 01:01:11.519 Yeah. 01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:13.519 Um, if that can happen. 01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:13.840 Yeah. 01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:16.559 But I'm but I just have this real honest conversation with them. 01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:19.599 And sure, and I have clients who've been with me for years and years and years. 01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:24.000 And and uh, you know, for a while there, it's like, you don't really need me anymore. 01:01:24.159 --> 01:01:32.000 But to your point, you know, if you can have a few light bulb moments, really help someone take, you know, I call it the creative edge, right? 01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:40.159 Because that's where, you know, the if you think about tools and AI and everything that's going on, it compresses, right? 01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:42.239 There's so much of knowledge that's out there, right? 01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:44.159 It compresses so much. 01:01:44.639 --> 01:01:47.599 But humans are all about advancing useful information, right? 01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:50.719 Figuring, oh, you know, if these three things are true, then you can build this. 01:01:50.800 --> 01:01:54.400 Yeah,

you can stack it on that, on that stool, if you will, right? 01:01:54.800 --> 01:02:05.119 And and just seeing the being the part of the creative process and helping people take things to the next level, helping them figure out how to win the stage they're in. 01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:11.280 And then ultimately, you know, and I think a lot about this right now, you you know, I'm writing a few books. 01:02:11.760 --> 01:02:18.239 Um, the the book I'm actually in the middle of right now is on exits. 01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:19.599 Right. 01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:21.280 What do you need to do? 01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:22.079 Yeah. 01:02:22.719 --> 01:02:27.440 To feel like if you and you know the exit planning stuff, right? 01:02:28.320 --> 01:02:36.239 Death, disability, divorce, distress, what's the 50, something like that, right? 01:02:36.559 --> 01:02:43.679 Um you know, you don't get to most of the time, you don't get to decide your exit. 01:02:43.840 --> 01:02:44.159 Yeah. 01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:45.039 Right? 01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:48.800 So what are all the things that we need to do? 01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:49.199 Yeah. 01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:56.480 So when that moment comes, this thing that you put, you know, for m for most founders, right? 01:02:56.639 --> 01:02:58.400 At some point, it'll be decades. 01:02:58.559 --> 01:02:58.800 Yeah. 01:02:59.119 --> 01:02:59.360 Right? 01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:00.000 For most. 01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:00.239 Yeah. 01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:08.960 You put decades into this, and so for when that moment comes, the company is ready to thrive without you, right? 01:03:09.360 --> 01:03:12.880 And so just you know, that's a that's a human thing. 01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:13.199 Yeah. 01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:14.000 Right. 01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:18.159 And it's a hard conversation and it's not a one and done conversation. 01:03:18.639 --> 01:03:19.119 Absolutely not. 01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:19.519 You know? 01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:21.199 So back to your point, right? 01:03:21.360 --> 01:03:39.199 Really figuring out, you know, what the stages are, where they are developmentally, how to help them sort of take it to the next stage, how to have those eureka moments, walk out of sessions 90 plus percent of the time where you're like, man, I I yeah. 01:03:39.440 --> 01:03:44.480 And and you know, I I like I have a client, and you probably have a couple as well, right? 01:03:44.639 --> 01:03:50.719 I have a client I took from zero revenue to being worth hundreds of millions of dollars, right? 01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:55.039 Another client I took from a couple hundred million to over a billion dollar valuation, right? 01:03:55.280 --> 01:04:06.960 And it's just, you know, just the the the the joy is being a part of that journey and having a founder say right in your eyes, right? 01:04:07.199 --> 01:04:08.159 You helped me get here. 01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:08.639 Yeah. 01:04:08.800 --> 01:04:09.039 Right. 01:04:09.199 --> 01:04:11.119 You helped me do this, you helped me build this. 01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:11.599 Yeah. 01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:13.199 That's super rewarding. 01:04:14.639 --> 01:04:14.800 Yeah. 01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:18.079 It's incredible to have somebody say this would not have happened without you. 01:04:18.159 --> 01:04:18.320 Yeah. 01:04:18.559 --> 01:04:23.039 Like uh and not man, I just I couldn't have a better compliment, quite frankly. 01:04:23.199 --> 01:04:23.360 Yeah. 01:04:24.239 --> 01:04:24.400 Yeah. 01:04:24.639 --> 01:04:24.960 Awesome. 01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:25.519 Yeah, man. 01:04:25.760 --> 01:04:28.400 Hey man, I really appreciate you hanging in Park City. 01:04:28.639 --> 01:04:28.719 Yeah. 01:04:28.880 --> 01:04:29.360 Glad to do it. 01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:34.559 Glad you came here and uh um and uh we'll probably do this again sometime. 01:04:36.159 --> 01:04:36.639 Thanks, bud. 01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:37.280 Yep.