บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Dr. Rickey Vincent: Why Are Black Artists Played but Not Paid? #blackhistory

now. 72 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:45.839 And so the Dramatics had a run of those, and 73 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:50.560 I think Ron Banks was one of their leaders. And 74 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:53.319 if you're in Detroit, you're gonna wind up recording with 75 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:54.560 George Clinton sooner or later. 76 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:55.319 So uh. 77 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:59.560 Uh. Crate diggers love to look on the back of 78 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:03.399 records and and see, you know, who wound up over that, 79 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:06.199 who wound up in the in the in the sessions, 80 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:08.839 you know, doing things with George and stuff like that. 81 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:14.240 So the Dramatics have they check all the boxes and 82 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:18.079 you just can't you can't get away from that. Well 83 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:21.040 maybe people do, you know, we move on, But at 84 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:26.120 the same time, it's always a special thing to recognize 85 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:31.639 our roots, recognize where it came from. And when you 86 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:33.759 want to snuggle up and warm up on a cold 87 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:36.720 day and wet day. Great soul music the way to 88 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:37.079 do that. 89 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:40.519 It's funny too, because you know, I said, you don't 90 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:44.399 hear about them as much in the mainstream discourse, but apparently, 91 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:48.839 according to Wikipedia, they've been sampled one hundred and twenty 92 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:52.480 eight times, which is a lot of samples. And so 93 00:05:52.759 --> 00:05:56.120 and so, and I remember one time when I had 94 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:59.399 my show Home Turf back in the Bay, I interviewed 95 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:02.160 George and then one of the things he said was that, 96 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:05.439 you know, he doesn't really he didn't really care for 97 00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:07.600 rap that much, but he loved the fact that they 98 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:10.639 were sampling his songs because he was getting paid. But 99 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:12.920 that's not always the case. 100 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:17.439 Is it. It's not always the case, And and and 101 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:24.480 we kind of mistake recognition for you know, actual of 102 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:33.480 financial stability and financial accumulation, and that that sort of 103 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:37.000 goes into our own sense of our pop culture. In 104 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:39.279 this it reminds me, it goes back. There was a 105 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:44.920 there was a movie about Chess Records called Cadillac Records, 106 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:50.680 and Most Deaf was playing Chuck Berry and they're having 107 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:52.759 fun with his new hit and he gets to sit 108 00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:56.240 down in the room with the rock and roll DJ, 109 00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:00.759 the famous rock and roll d I think Alan Freed, 110 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:03.959 the guy playing Alan Free. And he sits down with 111 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:07.759 with Chuck Berry and and the Chess Records guy, and 112 00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:10.439 he says, and he points at Chuck and he says, 113 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:13.920 I'm gonna make you famous, and he points at the 114 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:17.920 Chess Records guy is I'm gonna make you rich. And 115 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:22.439 well wait, wait, let's switch sides here, let me get 116 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:25.160 on this side of the now. Say that again, because 117 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:28.000 but that was always a plan. That was like, you know, 118 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:32.199 give these guys a cadillact and and keep them, you know, 119 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:34.439 keep them happy on a short term, and we will 120 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:39.040 cash in long term, you know, and be set for life, 121 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:43.360 set for generations off of what these black artists did. Uh. 122 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:47.000 And that's been the formula for so long, and it 123 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:51.360 really hasn't been exposed. So even when you hear about 124 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:55.160 a song or an artist getting recognized or even appearing 125 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:57.480 on a on a sort of a remake of a song, 126 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:01.879 and and you're like, hey, they're they're getting their flowers 127 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:05.319 and their propers, but that doesn't mean they're getting their 128 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:08.560 debts paid, that doesn't mean they have health care, that 129 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:12.240 doesn't mean you know that their children are doing well 130 00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:15.120 based on what you know the parents accomplished for fifty 131 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:19.480 years and that somehow we have a blind spot there 132 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:24.600 and we were not recognizing those people that put in 133 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:29.759 that kind of work. We lost Jesse Jackson, and you know, 134 00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:34.279 all of recognition for him is well well deserved, but 135 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:38.840 you know, he's on Curtis Mayfield documentary. You know, given 136 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:42.159 it up for Curtis Mayfield. Curtis Mayfield put in as 137 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:46.240 much as work really for the people as Jesse Jackson did. 138 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:48.960 And I don't mean any disrespect at all to either 139 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:52.320 one of them. They both did, but we know how 140 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:56.639 to sort of recognize one to the type of soul 141 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:00.720 and spirit because that's just the way that to set 142 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:04.720 up for us. And we so we just sort of wish, 143 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:08.279 you wish the best for

these artists when they should 144 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:11.639 be an institution on the level of the Rock and 145 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:12.559 Roll Hall of Fame. 146 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:14.759 Well, I think that there's a couple of things that 147 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:17.960 contribute to that. First of all, for people like me, 148 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:21.000 regular media people that aren't super famous. You know, we're 149 00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:23.679 not on the Today Show or whatever. We don't have 150 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:27.120 access to big name artists. Most of the time. Most 151 00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:29.440 of the time there's publicists and layers and layers and 152 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:32.200 lanes that. Then there's this narrative in a lot of 153 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:35.360 these movies, like that one you just talked about, but 154 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:38.360 not that one as much as some others where it's 155 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:41.200 you know, Chuck Berry and certain artists were ripped off. 156 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:43.799 But that's in the past. That's we don't do that 157 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.879 anymore now. You know. Now artists have lawyers and they 158 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:50.679 have and they have sophisticated contracts, and they know what 159 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:53.000 they're doing, so they're getting paid. And you see one 160 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:55.240 or two artists that are billionaires, so we assume they're 161 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:58.919 all rich. And three, you know, the streaming, the advent 162 00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:02.080 of streaming, I mean, has really made it harder also 163 00:10:02.519 --> 00:10:05.080 for artists to make a living, not not even touching 164 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:09.240 on AI. So I think that while in some senses 165 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:13.240 things have gotten harder for artists as far as making 166 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:16.120 a living, the narrative is that they're doing better. 167 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:22.919 Well. I'd like to hear from some musicians that can 168 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:27.360 agree to that, because it when it when it trickles 169 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:30.840 all the way down. Many of the artists that I've 170 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:35.200 know that I appreciate the most are still on the 171 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:38.320 road and that's that's how they can do it. And 172 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:43.600 oh they're dedicated. They're dedicated, but they're also desperate in 173 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:45.720 a way that's not glamorous. 174 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:50.039 It's not fair either. It's terrible. It's not fair. We're 175 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:53.200 talking with doctor Ricky Vincent, music historian and author. Will 176 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:57.000 continue the conversation when we come forward on KBLA Talk 177 00:10:57.080 --> 00:11:00.919 fifteen eighty. Doctor Ricky Vincent is a renowned music historian. 178 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:05.559 He is an author and a professor, Doctor Vincent. You know, 179 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.879 we were talking about how just because an artist is 180 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:12.000 often sampled, or because you danced to their song at 181 00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:17.120 your wedding or grew up you know listening to their music, 182 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:20.120 doesn't mean they're paid just because they're famous. I always 183 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:22.399 say that about my parents, you know, Amri Baraka and 184 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:25.519 Diana Prima. Think people think I have a silver spoon 185 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:27.919 because they know my parents' names. No, I always call 186 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:30.159 it lifestyles of the poor and famous. You know, you 187 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:33.200 can you can be known by a lot of folks 188 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:37.399 and doesn't mean you have any money. But why is that? 189 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:37.720 Why? 190 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:41.639 I mean, I was looking at this list of billionaires 191 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:45.000 black billionaires. Apparently there's like twenty two in the whole 192 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:48.799 world and one one is Rihanna, one is jay Z, 193 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:52.840 and one is Beyonce. There are no other musicians on 194 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:57.200 that list. Why is why is? Why is Rihanna? And 195 00:11:57.240 --> 00:12:00.279 I love Rihanna? Why is Rihanna billionaire? But you know, 196 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.399 Smokie Robinson. 197 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:10.919 Isn't That's a great question. And why aren't we aware 198 00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:15.000 of this? And and those three that you mentioned, why 199 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:19.480 aren't they sort of making more more visible announcements. A 200 00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:24.919 part of it is the culture surrounding whatever it is 201 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:29.039 super wealth. And I remember Michael Jordan's the basketball player. 202 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:32.320 Always got he because he was like one of the 203 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:36.440 most successful players, of course, but then he was kind 204 00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:41.519 of famously kind of joked by Jonas Barklay and others 205 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:44.080 that the Michael Jordan's the chief skate that he wasn't 206 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:49.200 really into doing you know, social uh uh give back 207 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:53.279 type of stuff. He you know, he was busy accumulating 208 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:56.600 his money. And we we are trained to revere that 209 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:01.200 as opposed to uh recognizing, you know, there's a way 210 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:05.440 in our community that your value is based on how 211 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:09.279 you support your community things of that nature. And you know, 212 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:11.919 Michael has done what he what he what he's done 213

00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:16.519 that's fine, but we don't we don't recognize the distinction. 214 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:19.039 We don't we don't recognize the difference. Those three people 215 00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:21.960 made a lot of money, but and they might show 216 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:25.960 up once in a while at a at a memorial 217 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:29.879 for someone or dedication, but that to me, I'm like, 218 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:35.000 there's a disconnect there. And as much as Beyonce uh 219 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:39.919 puts little easter rays, little nuggets, little history lessons in 220 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:44.759 her videos, often uh she kind of recognizes these little 221 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:49.600 cultural elements that preceded her generation. Well, you know, the 222 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:52.399 music artists were the ones that were laying that had 223 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:55.240 been laying that out is through the history of recorded 224 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:59.080 music and the history of videos, and I just, uh, 225 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:03.240 I feel like we just sort of accept this and 226 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:06.639 move on. And that's that's not I don't think that 227 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:11.480 is actually telling the truth about our lived experience. When 228 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:14.120 we get around, you know, family gatherings and we talk 229 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:17.240 about the old days and this and that, We talk 230 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:21.600 about the artists and old shows, great times we had 231 00:14:21.799 --> 00:14:25.440 and what was the soundtrack to that? It was all 232 00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:30.440 this great music And people today are studying the music, 233 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:36.440 but not necessarily the people and giving them a recognition 234 00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:40.000 for what they've done and part of that is it's 235 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:42.840 the sweet and sour of hip hop, because you know, 236 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:45.960 when you tell people where hip hop came from, first 237 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:49.600 of all, that's still foggy. You know, fifty years some. 238 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:53.440 People say that, say that, Doctor Vincent, because I've been 239 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:56.600 saying it. You you, I mean, no shade to cool herk. 240 00:14:56.679 --> 00:14:58.279 But they want to say it happened on this day 241 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:02.039 at this time, man hip hop was to me, it's 242 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.559 not that cut and dry. And so I'm glad to 243 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:07.279 see you say that because you're a reputable scholar, and 244 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:08.279 I just run my mouth. 245 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:12.039 Okay, well that's fine, as you do a good job 246 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:14.360 of that. It's a great job, by the way, thank you. 247 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:16.799 But you know, I was. I was making my own 248 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:21.120 little wacky mixtapes in the seventies because I wanted I 249 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:24.320 liked those songs, I said, but I just want the beat. 250 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:27.120 Don't give me the breakdown. I don't want the ballot, 251 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:29.320 give me the beat. And so we were it was 252 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:33.120 a generational thing if we were into right, but you know, 253 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:35.519 on a on a sort of a deeper scale, when 254 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.559 the even when the ogs, when LEL Cool Day talks 255 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:40.960 about our you know, hip hop, we came up and 256 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:44.519 we did this thing, and to a large degree they 257 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:49.440 can say they created this, this music without elders. And 258 00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:53.399 every other form, you know, blues gospel jazz, you know, 259 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:57.200 the artists in that form were taught by a mentor, 260 00:15:57.399 --> 00:15:59.559 by an elder that said, look, this is how you 261 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:02.159 do these chords and that'll hold the crowd and boom 262 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.879 boom bah and you know, Ray Charles, everybody will say that, 263 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:08.320 you know, they learned from somebody else that talked to them. Well, 264 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:11.240 a lot of the youngsters that put hip hop together, 265 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.720 they didn't have an older family member. All they had 266 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.559 was the records. The records were there, their name, James. 267 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.159 Brown was their elder, because everybody was sampling James at first. 268 00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:25.039 Right, James Brown was their elder, and they sat down, 269 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:27.960 but not necessarily with James with. 270 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:30.519 His records right exactly, let me mess with. 271 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.759 This, let me mess with that. And it's gotten to 272 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:37.840 that point where folks recognized those hooks and those records, 273 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:42.200 but they don't recognize Fred Leslie or Mayfield Parker or 274 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:46.120 Jobo starts at Clyde Stubblefield on the drums. You know, 275 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:50.159 Jimmy Nolan's guitar licks, the guy that did all that 276 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:53.639 you know, all that Papa's got a brand new bag 277 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:56.679 and licking stick, all those real clean and tight and 278 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:01.000 crisp rifts that people around the world nothing to right now. 279 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:04.079 So you know, it's like, wait a minute, let's just 280 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:06.799 we don't. I'm not saying go back in a do 281 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.480 loop and stay there. I'm saying, if you recognize you 282 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:12.599 know where you came

from. First of all, it's empowering. 283 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.440 It gives you a real good sense of who who 284 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:19.480 you are and where you came from. And there's a 285 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:23.759 business model in place. A lot of times if you travel, 286 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:26.920 there's a little brochure in your in your in your 287 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:31.319 airplane it says, you know, come to uh Nashville, there's 288 00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:35.880 an African American music Museum there. You know, come to 289 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:41.720 uh Memphis, there's a there's a Stacks Music Museum there. 290 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.039 You'll come to you know, Detroit, you know where the 291 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:50.759 Motown Museum is. And there are places where you can 292 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:56.720 uh sort of put structure to the recognition of your 293 00:17:56.759 --> 00:18:01.640 history and actually make it look And actually we will 294 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:05.319 wind up in the Chamber of Commerce listing of places 295 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:08.759 to go that really a whole community can identify with 296 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:13.079 and and it like soul music itself, it can cross 297 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:16.680 over and still appeal to its base, which is the 298 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:18.000 Black American population. 299 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:24.359 The thing about it, I look at nos and the 300 00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:26.839 I can't remember the name of the foundation right off 301 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:29.279 the top of my head. They have a foundation that 302 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:33.200 is giving money like half a million dollars in health 303 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.839 care benefits to some pioneers of hip hop paid in 304 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:40.480 full foundation, that's what it's called, paid in full foundation. 305 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:48.359 He's working with a couple of wealthy, membered corporate leaders 306 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.599 who are funding this, and NAS has spearheaded this, and 307 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:54.880 you know, they've given money to rock him and some 308 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.240 other folks who are deserving, who are exactly in the 309 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:01.519 position you're talking talking about. With many of these soul 310 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:06.839 music folks, they're still touring. Yes, everyone looks up to 311 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:10.079 them and recognizes them as pioneers, but they're broke, right. 312 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:14.279 And I think about this man Sonny Williams, who just 313 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.519 made his transition a couple of weeks ago. I worked 314 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:21.119 with him when I worked at Stevie Wonders Station. For 315 00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:25.160 all those years, Sonny was the janitor at the station. 316 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:28.559 He would clean up by day, but at night he 317 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:32.440 was touring with the Temptations, singing well, and he could 318 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:35.039 sing his butt off and that to me, and he 319 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:38.400 was such a kind and lovely man and really helped 320 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:41.039 me out when I was first doing that show front 321 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:43.720 Page and a lot of people were getting on my case. 322 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:46.160 He was just so supportive and so kind and rest 323 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:49.880 in peace, Sonny. But I think about him because he 324 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:52.519 to me, he's like a symbol of exactly what you're 325 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:57.880 talking about. And so what can we do, Like, is 326 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:01.400 there an R and B, A funk a jazz version 327 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.599 of a paid in full foundation that can come into 328 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:08.319 being and and support these artists or or get them 329 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:09.480 paid some kind of way. 330 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:18.160 Well, there there are efforts being made, and it's it's 331 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:20.960 but it's almost like trying to win the lottery. Uh. 332 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:25.680 To turn that around. There's a brother named Robinson who 333 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:32.759 I think he has Rhythm and Blues foundation, And there 334 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:35.440 was an effort to put a bit of the Blues 335 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:43.160 Museum out in the in between Mississippi and Alabama in 336 00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:46.440 a in a rural spot because finding a location wasn't easy, 337 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.240 and and so they go, they're going through a lot 338 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:51.480 of struggles. I know, the guys at the Dayton Funk 339 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:57.400 Center that have all this materials like uniforms from Roger 340 00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.119 and Zapp and you know, going to work from the 341 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.960 equipment of Ohio players and it's the material they have 342 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:11.599 is dazzling, but keeping a location that they can kind 343 00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:15.279 of build on it, it's always been an uphill battle. 344 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.839 And that's where it gets kind of just sort of 345 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.960 unreal when you think about how much of this great 346 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:28.319 music is on TV soundtracks. I heard a bunch of 347 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:31.880 classic solo funkt on the Super Bowl and then the 348 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:35.119 All Star Game, and here are these people making dunks 349 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:41.880 on on funk soundtracks and they're all multimillionaires, all of them, 350 00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:44.599 most of them making more money than they can spend. 351 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:49.880 But and somebody they donated somewhere to dodge the taxes and. 352 00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:52.799

Hold that thought, Doctor Vinson, I got a heart out 353 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:57.359 here for news, traffic and sports. But while fascinating conversation continues. Next, Yeah, 354 00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:00.960 this conversation is making my mind race all around the world. 355 00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:04.079 He's an author and historian and a radio host in 356 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:10.039 the Bay Area. He is doctor Ricky Vincent. And I'm 357 00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:13.440 so glad you're on with us this morning celebrating black history, 358 00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:17.440 and we're looking at black music history and you were 359 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:22.559 talking about how folks folks don't get paid right, paid 360 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:25.880 in full right. Kim's out, well, folks don't get pay. 361 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:28.680 Right, and hip hop is paying attention to some of 362 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:31.359 the I mean, it's just so vast now as an institution. 363 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:36.519 And and the thing is, folks are able to, uh 364 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.680 talk about themselves, and that's a comfortable thing. A lot 365 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:43.039 of the artists that you know from the soul funk, 366 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:47.240 you know, blues and jazz generation don't necessarily toot their 367 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:51.480 own horn, and they have a certain humility about themselves, 368 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:55.319 so they're not necessarily making their case that right. 369 00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:57.960 I don't think it's just tooting horns though. I mean 370 00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:01.119 a lot of these folks are marketed as brands. Like 371 00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:04.160 Rihanna hasn't done an album in like ten years, but 372 00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:06.799 she's making her money on you know, she sold fenty 373 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:11.640 I think to the people that don't fendy, surprise surprise. 374 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:14.759 You know, jay Z has a deal with the NFL, 375 00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:18.039 and on and on it goes. I don't know why 376 00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:21.480 Neo has more money than you know, than sly Stone, 377 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:24.400 but he does. But I think a lot it has. 378 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:29.440 Someone has to be business, right, you have an umbrella? 379 00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:31.799 Are you going to go outside in the rain with it. 380 00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:37.839 Well yeah, I mean it's got old now, but it 381 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:40.119 was fun. But you're right there, there's a whole dimension 382 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:42.039 of it, and the music was just a part of 383 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:45.400 the process, right, And but we could go back and 384 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:48.359 understand that the craft is part of the process too, 385 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:54.079 and they're not mutually exclusive of each other. And it's 386 00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:57.240 just that one part of

it. Because they're recognizing our 387 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:02.920 our founders, it gets lost in the sauce and we're 388 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:05.400 not able to and Rihanna and all these other people 389 00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:09.720 and the and the athletes that are I don't want 390 00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:12.079 to just talk about people and say they're overpaid, but 391 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:17.359 they have discretionary you know, financial resources, and they they 392 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:21.720 could be a part of a a soul funk version 393 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:26.400 of paid in full incorporated or whatever that is. Uh. 394 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:29.599 That that could and it should be it should be foundational. 395 00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:32.759 I mean, it's we're talking about. But the Kennedy Center 396 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:36.279 is supposed to represent that this American company. Where's the 397 00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:40.000 Stevie Wonders Center, you know, where's the uh where where 398 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:44.279 are the god forget something happens to Stevie? What institution 399 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:48.160 do we have that is even worthy of recognizing the 400 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:51.880 scope of that man's work, from top to bottom, his 401 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:54.319 activist work. We have Martin at the King's Birthday is 402 00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:57.759 a national holiday because of the work Stevie Wonder did, 403 00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:01.839 who built on his craft, uh, and he embedded it 404 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:06.119 in social change, in activism, in civil rights activism that 405 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:11.000 he came up a part of in Detroit. So all 406 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:15.720 these pieces are connected, but we accept that there when 407 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:18.839 the history books are written, you know, it's about marches 408 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:23.599 and and and and legal changes on one side of 409 00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:26.359 the fence, and then the entertainers on the other side, 410 00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:29.519 and they just sort of two different stories. And I'm like, 411 00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:33.079 wait a minute, it was all lived together. And that's 412 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:35.880 that's how we lived, that's what we went through. And 413 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:40.200 I remember, Dominique, what changed my career is reading the 414 00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:43.599 first few pages of this book by Leeboy Jones called 415 00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:49.920 Blues People and and it's yeah, and it explained just 416 00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:56.559 the embedded rage and indignation that so much had been 417 00:25:56.599 --> 00:25:59.960 created by these people of African descent in this lane. 418 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:05.400 And every song that is written, UH has a thread 419 00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:09.119 of that. And once you understand that, every blues song 420 00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.559 is

telling you a truth. It's an emotional truth. It's 421 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:16.440 telling you a truth, Uh, regardless of the lyrics, and 422 00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:18.640 all of a sudden you can you can build on 423 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.440 that and understand all your gospel and soul music. You 424 00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:27.119 can understand the rowdiness of the free form funk and 425 00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:30.160 the psychedelics and Jimmy Hender. It all starts to make 426 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.480 sense because it's all a flow. It's all this sort 427 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:39.279 of this creative energy that it's hard to use sort 428 00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:42.319 of it's hard to contain it with the with western 429 00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:48.519 constructs of of of of sort of mathematical measurement. You 430 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:51.559 can't can't do that. But if you understand it all, 431 00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:54.799 then by all this stuff is connected. It doesn't belong 432 00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:58.559 a different ends of the record store or different It's 433 00:26:58.599 --> 00:27:02.559 all our music, but somebody has decided to compartmentalize it 434 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:05.880 so they could contain it and commodify it and get 435 00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:10.720 paid while the creators don't. Uh, but what where where 436 00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:14.000 where do our young people get that information? So it's 437 00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:18.240 all connected. Sometimes you know, Grandpa were like telling folks 438 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:22.240 about that. You know, sometimes you could learn from Grandma 439 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.400 which we're cooking and and you know, explaining how things 440 00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:32.279 all fit together. But that that's that, that's on us, 441 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:35.279 that's heavy lifting. It needs to be done because this 442 00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:39.119 is such a that's a wealth source. It's a wealth 443 00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:43.480 of knowledge which will help us fight every day, you know, struggles. 444 00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:49.279 But it's also really a foundational aspect of the community's wealth, 445 00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:52.559 and we we could be initiating that, and a few 446 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:55.039 people are. It just needs to be needs to be 447 00:27:55.079 --> 00:28:01.240 done more. I'm waiting for an enlightened, superstar irving type 448 00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:04.920 to say, look, you know, let's create a foundation for 449 00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:10.240 these music artists that gave us hip hop, that gave 450 00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:14.079 us the beats that the world is dancing to today. 451 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:16.720 Right, the Funky Forefathers. I mean, I don't know why. 452 00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:19.319 To me, you know, it makes sense for it to 453 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:22.200 be Jay and Beyonce that because they are both billionaires. 454 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:25.400 But whoever it is you have said, you said you 455 00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.960 don't think we have an institution, and you don't think 456 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:32.960 the Grammys, the Soul Train Awards, the NAACP Awards, or 457 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:36.599 you know, the Motown Museum are mighty enough or in 458 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:40.519 the case of the Grammys, have the intentionality to get 459 00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:41.839 that done. 460 00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:49.880 Those are all sort of polite first steps. I'm not 461 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:54.440 about to disrespect anybody that is doing some of that work, right, 462 00:28:54.519 --> 00:28:57.480 So that's work it's hard, hard work because you have 463 00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:01.200 to change the model, change the paradigm people are thinking about. 464 00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:04.200 You know, I just want to be entertained. Just give 465 00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:07.519 me some of that that big grin, you know, give 466 00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:10.759 me a smile. Benny King had a big teacher, you know, 467 00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:13.240 give me a grin like that, you know, let me 468 00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:17.920 enjoy that. But it's bigger, and these are human these 469 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:20.240 are human beings. And what was the whole Civil rights 470 00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:23.640 moving about, you know, with the brothers with the placards 471 00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:29.119 I am a man in nineteen sixty eight in Memphis, right, 472 00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:32.279 they were saying, you know, look, recognize us as human beings, 473 00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:37.599 and so our musical mentors that are in many many 474 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:43.160 ways were guiding us through some very very rough times, 475 00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:47.799 which we need to recognize that for ourselves. Not just 476 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:53.440 to make sure that Frankie, Beverly and May's get paid 477 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:56.599 and make sure the lakeside, you know, it's taken care of. 478 00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.519 In terms of giving us fifty years of joy. It's 479 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.200 it's bigger than that. It's it's for us to know 480 00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:05.440 where it came from so we can move on. 481 00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:11.319 Yeah, for the culture, So I wanted to at least 482 00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:16.200 talk a little bit about sly Uh sly Stone. We 483 00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:19.839 started this conversation around the Grammy Awards because the mention 484 00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:24.200 of him, for for many fans of the music the 485 00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:28.640 d memorial mentioned and their tribute was lacking and that 486 00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:32.880 go ahead, it was lacking. 487 00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:39.119 In uh in substance and in uh in time. It 488 00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:44.480 didn't represent the overall scope. And what I mean overall 489 00:30:44.519

--> 00:30:47.880 scope is they could have had a lighting system that 490 00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:52.880 showed Slide Family Stone imagery album art throughout the night, 491 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:56.519 because so much of pop music was based on the 492 00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:59.920 work of Slyestone. But the problem is, first of all, 493 00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:03.000 it's hard for folks to get that off off the 494 00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:06.839 top of their head unless they lived it. And secondly, 495 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:10.359 Sly was so generous. He never turned around and said, 496 00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:15.079 that's my idea. You stole all those beats, you made everything. 497 00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:18.039 I used to listen to Casey in the Sunshine Band 498 00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:20.119 and I was like, well, this shure is exciting, but 499 00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:23.240 this sure is upbeat, Well, this sure is wow. This 500 00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:28.400 is everything fine the family Stone has done. Minus the 501 00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:32.559 compelling lyrics. I mean, I suppose it's compelling in shake, Shake, 502 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:34.720 shake your booty. I suppose that's compelling at some. 503 00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:38.079 Level, compelling for your booty, compelling for your. 504 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:40.359 Body, and the dance floor and all that is cool. 505 00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:43.119 But I was able to combine all of those things, 506 00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:46.880 which gave permission for Earth Wind and Fire and Stevie 507 00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:50.799 Wonder and these people to develop musically to the point 508 00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:55.720 where the bands could stand on their own, and you know, 509 00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:59.559 they competed with one another with friendly competition, and the 510 00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.559 vocal lists could compete on their own. Have you tried 511 00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:06.160 to listen to Taylor Swift's version of September by Earth 512 00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:13.119 Wind and Fire. It's but at some point she had 513 00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:17.359 to realize, wait a minute, not only is the band 514 00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:22.559 doing something musically that no band around today could even 515 00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:26.680 come close to reaching, even with all the harmonies, their 516 00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:31.480 vocals are just so advanced beyond you know, the structure, 517 00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:35.960 the way Maurice White arranged everything, all these pieces were 518 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:41.680 in place, and it's really it's just something that we 519 00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:46.000 need to turn around and and give some acknowledgement of this. 520 00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:51.880 And really, Slyestone gave everybody the template for making what 521 00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:55.599 we celebrate as great modern music. And to not be 522 00:32:55.720 --> 00:32:59.599 able to not to just treat

treat them like an afterthought, 523 00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:04.839 that's that that was unpleasant. I'll just leave it there. 524 00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.920 I mean, I was glad to see that Grammy Awards 525 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:11.759 a tribute to ROBERTA. Flack and some of the other 526 00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:16.400 greats that were there. I thought they really worked hard 527 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:22.200 that And I'm not, you know, disrespecting, but yeah, but 528 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:25.359 when it comes to Sly, he was on another level. 529 00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:30.319 The other artists of that era recognized that. But you know, 530 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:36.039 aside from Questloves, you know, fantastic documentary on Sly it 531 00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:38.960 came out that's the very same year, right, So I 532 00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:41.440 passed away like three months after that thing came out, 533 00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:45.720 and that thing was thirty years late. It could have 534 00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:52.680 been done in nineteen seventy five, not twenty twenty five. Yeah, 535 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:56.319 because what Sly had accomplished, So that that I mean, 536 00:33:56.359 --> 00:34:00.680 And yeah, well where's the sly Stone Museum. Hey, that 537 00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:03.200 will take a little bit. There's a project up here 538 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:07.000 in the bay. You know, it'll take some recognition and yeah, 539 00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:10.639 well you know, hey, Steph Curry's out here. He could 540 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:16.719 just cut a fingernails worth of of nonprofit you know, 541 00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:21.480 donation money to uh to a foundation of that. That 542 00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.079 would kind of wake people up and make people see 543 00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:27.960 how all these pieces are connected. But you know, you 544 00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:30.880 do you do what you can do. And meanwhile, we're 545 00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:33.000 gonna play that music and we're gonna wear it out. 546 00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:36.559 We're gonna keep wearing it out, Doctor Ricky Vincent. As 547 00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:39.760 you know, we have breaking news with the sad transition 548 00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:43.840 of the Reverend Jesse Jackson. And we have we have 549 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:48.320 our congresswoman who was a long long time colleague of 550 00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:53.079 Reverend Jackson's joining us this morning to say a few 551 00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:56.280 words about the reverend. Thank you so much for joining 552 00:34:56.360 --> 00:34:58.599 us this morning. I always love talking with you. I 553 00:34:58.599 --> 00:34:59.880 feel smarter when i'm done. 554 00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:05.199 Well, thank you, Dominique. I love doing this. And Jesse's 555 00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:09.280 on a song by the Stetso Sonic about Africa. You 556 00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:11.920 want to talk about your trip back to Africa,

AFR 557 00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:17.280 A and GOA. So wait those Zimbabweves look that up 558 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:21.360 because it opens with Jesse Jackson at the Democratic Convention 559 00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:25.599 talk about South Africa. It's a moral disgrace. It's a 560 00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:30.239 moral disgrace. So the music is there to give us 561 00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:32.320 what we need. All we got to do is open 562 00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:33.159 our eyes and ears. 563 00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:37.559 That's black history. You're listening to KVLA Talk fifteen eighty 564 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:40.880 v LA Talk fifteen eighty. Not sure what happened here. 565 00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:46.360 We were contacted by Congresswoman Maxine Waters and we're expecting 566 00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:50.239 her to call in with her tribute. As you probably know, 567 00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:54.320 Congresswoman Waters and Jesse Jackson, we're good friends and work 568 00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:59.840 together for many years in this political space. But apparently 569 00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:03.639 we have not they have not been able to reach 570 00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:07.239 her back again. She called early this morning trying to 571 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:11.599 get on with us to pay tribute to Reverend Jesse Jackson, 572 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:17.000 and apparently that has not happened. But I will say this, 573 00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:20.519 I'm gonna end where we started, and I'm confident that 574 00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:23.440 Tavis Smiley, I know because he was just in here 575 00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:27.639 getting things together, that he is going to deliver some 576 00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:31.440 of the interviews that he had with Jesse Jackson over 577 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:36.519 the years, and the very impactful nature of those interviews 578 00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:40.360 in the work that Reverend Jackson said did. I will 579 00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:43.400 say this where I started this morning is that Reverend 580 00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:45.880 Jesse Jackson was a good friend of my father, the 581 00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:49.480 late Amara Baraka aka Leroy Jones. One of the reasons 582 00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:53.320 for that is because they understood internationalism. They understood that 583 00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:56.079 everybody has to have a place, not just in America, 584 00:36:56.119 --> 00:36:59.400 but in this world. They understood that centering black leadership 585 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.360 did not have to mean that we were not in 586 00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:08.679 coalition or insolidarity with others. And because of that, I 587 00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:13.719 think that Reverend Jesse Jackson was able to open this 588 00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:17.440 modern era of politics, open the space for this modern 589 00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:22.679 era of politicians and activists who move in that space, 590 00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:26.239 to make room for a Jesse Jackson, to inspire someone 591 00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:30.679 like myself to know that we have a place in 592 00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:35.960 this movement, and we are and we are we have 593 00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:38.960 agency to move. Do we have congress Woman Waters on 594 00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:40.719 the phone. Okay, let's get her on the air because 595 00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:43.079 we only have a couple minutes left here, just a 596 00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:46.440 couple minutes at the end of the show. Congresswoman Maxine Waters, 597 00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:53.760 America's congresswoman, beloved known as Anti Maxine Maxine. Congresswoman Maxine Waters, good. 598 00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:57.800 Morning, good morning, and thank you so much for colleague. 599 00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:02.519 I know it's about my dear closest friend, my brother, 600 00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:08.000 Jesse Jackson. And even though he's been sick for quite 601 00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:11.599 some time and I knew, we all knew this was coming, 602 00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:16.719 it still hits very hard. He was America's brightest leader. 603 00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:20.960 You have to change the Democratic Party, have to change America, 604 00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:26.000 and was our protector for civil rights and I'll never 605 00:38:26.039 --> 00:38:29.880 forget what he's done for this country. I traveled for 606 00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:33.119 six weeks strengths to nineteen eighty four across this country 607 00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:37.760 with him. He was truly not only a brilliant and 608 00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:42.559 talented leader, but when he created the rainbow and brought 609 00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:48.360 in everybody, women and foremers, blacks, whites, reds, everybody, he 610 00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:52.639 accomplished what we're still trying to do today. So I am, 611 00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:57.639 of course sattin, and you know my heart is pumping, 612 00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:01.760 but he'll always be with me for ever. 613 00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:06.000 Well, Congresswoman Waters, and we're about to pass the microphone 614 00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:09.000 to Tavis Smiley, who has got some beautiful interviews with 615 00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:11.760 Reverend Jackson to share with the world. I'm so sorry 616 00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:14.360 for your loss and the loss of your family and 617 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:16.840 our loss as a nation. And thank you for paying 618 00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:18.599 tribute to the Reverend Jackson this morning. 619 00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:22.679 Thank you for mom with you right now. I appreciate 620 00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:23.639 you so much. 621 00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:28.280 One love, it is time for Tavis Smiley. Like my 622 00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:32.920 dad Mary Baraka Nuts, let's go with Jesse Jackson. Let's 623 00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:36.320 keep hope alive until next time. One Love,