บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Coparenting: How to keep it about the kids

00:04:16.370 think this is such an important topic because I think 72 00:04:16.389 --> 00:04:18.990 it's important for us to remember. I know when I'm 73 00:04:19.009 --> 00:04:22.209 working with my clients, I'm always trying to remind them 74 00:04:22.370 --> 00:04:26.610 of like, let's picture the kid's perspective on this and 75 00:04:27.230 --> 00:04:32.029 how complicated it is and how like they they love 76 00:04:32.689 --> 00:04:37.990 both parents and they don't want to be betraying or 77 00:04:38.069 --> 00:04:42.310 having to pick or align or hold and they shouldn't 78 00:04:42.379 --> 00:04:46.480 have to and so if they feel like you know 79 00:04:46.819 --> 00:04:50.750 one parent will be upset if they want to do 80 00:04:50.829 --> 00:04:54.470 something with the other parent or if they're you know 81 00:04:54.509 --> 00:04:59.910 I've had um co-parents I've heard of situations where like 82 00:05:00.410 --> 00:05:02.329 you know how when kids are younger at least this 83 00:05:02.379 --> 00:05:05.100 is was my kids experience that they sometimes the teachers 84 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:07.779 will give you a whole packet that's due of homework 85 00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:10.120 that they'll say like oh kids are busy and they 86 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:11.920 got sports so we give it to you on Monday 87 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:15.610 and it's due on Friday or like a two-week period 88 00:05:15.620 --> 00:05:21.550 or something like that I've had where um One co-parent. 89 00:05:21.430 --> 00:05:24.649 Tells the kids, the. 90 00:05:23.670 --> 00:05:27.149 Homework is always due on Mom's Day, on Friday is 91 00:05:27.189 --> 00:05:29.980 Mom's Day, so it's always due then. And they'll say, 92 00:05:30.420 --> 00:05:33.819 so you're not going to do the homework here because 93 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:35.259 that's Mom's responsibility. 94 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:40.160 It gets that tight, doesn't it, where people make those 95 00:05:40.259 --> 00:05:42.339 tight of boundaries around their obligations. 96 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:43.279 Yes. 97 00:05:43.639 --> 00:05:46.319 And it's like, who's that? I mean, you're sticking it 98 00:05:46.339 --> 00:05:49.490 to Mom, but you're sticking it to the kid. What's 99 00:05:49.930 --> 00:05:52.930 the purpose of homework is as an, and a packet 100 00:05:52.990 --> 00:05:55.069 like that is to, is to not have to do 101 00:05:55.810 --> 00:05:58.569 all in an hour the night before half tired. 102 00:05:58.610 --> 00:06:00.129 That's good. Does nobody any good. 103 00:06:00.149 --> 00:06:05.290 And so, yeah, like what are we doing here and, 104 00:06:05.670 --> 00:06:08.589 and what's the purpose and who, who is this benefiting 105 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:11.180 is by having that kind of, so then if the 106 00:06:11.189 --> 00:06:13.339 kid even, the kids don't want to do homework, but 107 00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:15.500 like imagine the kid doesn't want to wait till the 108 00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:18.509 last

minute. but then feels like they can't really do 109 00:06:18.569 --> 00:06:21.209 it when they're at that parent's house because that would 110 00:06:21.250 --> 00:06:25.879 be aligning with mom or betraying them. And it just 111 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:31.040 gets so much and so complicated for the kids to 112 00:06:31.060 --> 00:06:32.879 have to navigate. 113 00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:38.480 Even if parents don't have an amicable separation, and I 114 00:06:38.500 --> 00:06:42.819 don't know if this happens with mediation, guardian of light, therapist, 115 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:45.399 I don't know where this happens, but maybe teaching families 116 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:49.529 how to align. The understanding that both parents matter, both 117 00:06:49.569 --> 00:06:53.879 parents are everything. You can be good to this parent 118 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:56.100 and still be good to me. Where does that come from? 119 00:06:56.420 --> 00:06:58.439 Especially if a parent is not feeling that way about 120 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:00.480 the other parent. Yeah. 121 00:07:00.579 --> 00:07:05.990 So some counties, and at least we're in Northeast Ohio, 122 00:07:06.019 --> 00:07:09.550 so some counties in the area require, it doesn't matter 123 00:07:09.610 --> 00:07:12.889 the situation, you have to take a parenting course. And 124 00:07:12.930 --> 00:07:15.370 they try to address some of that stuff in it. 125 00:07:16.420 --> 00:07:20.240 And other counties don't require it. Some, if it's real 126 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:22.300 contentious and then you're going back to court a lot, 127 00:07:22.339 --> 00:07:26.160 they may require you to have like a parenting expert 128 00:07:26.220 --> 00:07:29.019 kind of person who helps mediate things as you go. 129 00:07:29.379 --> 00:07:31.790 But I have seen that to not even, to be 130 00:07:31.829 --> 00:07:38.689 like very well-intentioned, also expensive for the families. But that ultimately, 131 00:07:40.149 --> 00:07:43.850 if the parent isn't, if one parent isn't on board, 132 00:07:43.930 --> 00:07:44.750 they're still not going. 133 00:07:44.629 --> 00:07:48.120 To, to do it. So this could be a reality. 134 00:07:48.259 --> 00:07:51.110 Somebody dealing with co-parenting may very well have a situation 135 00:07:51.550 --> 00:07:54.829 like you're talking about where things are not always focused 136 00:07:54.889 --> 00:07:58.230 on the child, perhaps to get to the significant, perhaps 137 00:07:58.269 --> 00:08:01.589 because they don't see that this is harmful. Yes. 138 00:08:01.949 --> 00:08:08.189 And even in good circumstances where it isn't that far 139 00:08:08.269 --> 00:08:13.569 to that contentious, I do see people kind of getting 140 00:08:13.649 --> 00:08:18.209 lost in the weeds as far as like complaining about 141 00:08:18.250 --> 00:08:22.040 the other parent, talking poorly about them. I mean, we're 142 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:27.019 all human, but like doing that on a regular basis 143 00:08:27.399 --> 00:08:33.879 really also. So the kids are 50% of each biological parent. 144 00:08:34.470 --> 00:08:39.769 And so they, when you talk poorly about their dad, 145 00:08:39.809 --> 00:08:45.139 let's say, that you are also sending a message that 146 00:08:45.299 --> 00:08:51.960 part of them is bad. Part of them is not desirable. 147 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:57.120 And it's just really harmful and toxic. And again, it 148 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:01.570 forces them to have this alliance. And it's really unfair. 149 00:09:02.070 --> 00:09:05.210 I know that, again, when my ex-husband and I separated, 150 00:09:05.370 --> 00:09:11.870 I made a very clear promise expectation to my family 151 00:09:12.389 --> 00:09:15.909 who's like you know on they're here for me and 152 00:09:16.210 --> 00:09:19.629 love me right so um I said from the very 153 00:09:19.669 --> 00:09:23.070 beginning like if the kids are with me whether they're 154 00:09:23.110 --> 00:09:25.830 in the room or not but if they are here 155 00:09:25.950 --> 00:09:29.809 with me there's not one bad word that can be 156 00:09:29.850 --> 00:09:34.649 said about him his family his you know even in 157 00:09:34.669 --> 00:09:38.049 the minutiae of the divorce and all of that stuff 158 00:09:38.110 --> 00:09:44.559 of how that's all going, we only say positive things 159 00:09:44.980 --> 00:09:50.320 or you can inquire about his family, inquire about what 160 00:09:50.340 --> 00:09:52.059 they had for dinner at dad's or whatever. 161 00:09:52.649 --> 00:09:56.899 You know, but like, and no eye rolling, no, um. 162 00:09:57.860 --> 00:10:00.519 Nothing, because even if they're not in the room, you 163 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:03.720 don't know if they can even hear it or if they're. 164 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:06.490 You know, about to walk in the room. This is just, 165 00:10:06.590 --> 00:10:07.470 we're not doing that. 166 00:10:07.690 --> 00:10:11.769 And, um, you know, and I had the same conversation with, uh, my, 167 00:10:12.269 --> 00:10:15.370 ex-husband about, like, I would prefer that that be a 168 00:10:15.470 --> 00:10:18.570 similar thing. You know, like if, if the kids are 169 00:10:18.590 --> 00:10:21.049 with me, you guys can say all you want. 170 00:10:20.889 --> 00:10:23.980 About me and what you think about me and vice versa. Right. 171 00:10:24.019 --> 00:10:28.419 It's like, I'm not, but let's try to keep them 172 00:10:28.779 --> 00:10:31.100 to know that we, that's not how it's going to 173 00:10:31.139 --> 00:10:32.580 go because that's not. 174 00:10:32.490 --> 00:10:33.039 Fair to them. 175 00:10:33.669 --> 00:10:33.870 No. 176 00:10:34.230 --> 00:10:37.350 And I have to say, this does not happen a lot, unfortunately, 177 00:10:37.509 --> 00:10:38.970 from what I hear from sitting in a room with 178 00:10:38.990 --> 00:10:41.970 the young people. And for a lot of these couples, 179 00:10:42.090 --> 00:10:43.690 they were doing it when they were married in

front 180 00:10:43.710 --> 00:10:46.210 of the children already. So they were already vilifying each other, 181 00:10:46.289 --> 00:10:49.289 maybe name calling, saying bad things, sharing with the kid 182 00:10:49.330 --> 00:10:50.929 that I can't believe your mom or dad did this. 183 00:10:51.220 --> 00:10:54.840 And then when the divorce happens, that language continues. And 184 00:10:54.899 --> 00:10:57.919 my clients feel so conflicted because they're like, well, I 185 00:10:57.980 --> 00:11:01.740 like that parent, but mom saying parent did that. And 186 00:11:02.500 --> 00:11:05.110 something that I say to my clients, maybe it's a 187 00:11:05.110 --> 00:11:07.659 little bit of a leap from here, but Even bad 188 00:11:07.700 --> 00:11:10.500 parents matter. So even if someone's convinced that their parent's 189 00:11:10.580 --> 00:11:12.379 bad or, and I hate to use that word, but 190 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:14.480 just in general, you got a bad parent or your 191 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:17.090 parent wasn't good at parenting, it's still the parent. They 192 00:11:17.110 --> 00:11:19.570 still love them and they're still connected. And to your point, 193 00:11:19.590 --> 00:11:22.610 that 50%, we still don't vilify them because we have 194 00:11:22.649 --> 00:11:25.409 to learn to accept that whatever their challenges are as 195 00:11:25.450 --> 00:11:27.450 a parent, so the young person can learn to accept. 196 00:11:28.460 --> 00:11:30.539 A big ask. It's a big ask when you're emotional 197 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:33.610 and going through all these feelings as a parent. Absolutely. 198 00:11:33.690 --> 00:11:35.570 And what I like, I tell. 199 00:11:35.470 --> 00:11:36.879 My clients this all the time, and I want to 200 00:11:37.029 --> 00:11:39.580 be clear in this too, is that I am also 201 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:46.039 human and I am not handling everything perfectly or I'm 202 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:48.899 not proud of everything that I've, every decision I've made 203 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:50.220 or every comment. 204 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:51.259 I've made or whatever. 205 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:56.769 But I do try to practice this and emulate this 206 00:11:56.970 --> 00:12:01.110 and to also apologize and own it to them. when 207 00:12:01.129 --> 00:12:05.769 I do say something or if I am having a 208 00:12:06.090 --> 00:12:10.220 reaction in, you know, in front of them, um, that 209 00:12:10.269 --> 00:12:13.120 isn't fair to them that they shouldn't be exposed to. Um, 210 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:17.320 and I, and I have been frustrated with, um, my 211 00:12:17.419 --> 00:12:20.059 ex-husband and some of the decisions that he has made. 212 00:12:20.299 --> 00:12:24.610 And I'm, I guarantee you he has the same, same, 213 00:12:24.929 --> 00:12:28.070 can say the exact same thing. But so then the kid, 214 00:12:28.110 --> 00:12:31.200 my kids have said, asked before, like as I'm having 215 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:35.179 an emotional

reaction and even trying not to say the thing, 216 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:38.960 but like just visibly frustrated. They've questioned me about it 217 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:42.720 or said like, and I try very hard to say, 218 00:12:42.740 --> 00:12:47.029 I am allowed to be frustrated with your dad. And 219 00:12:47.169 --> 00:12:51.039 I am also allowed to, to, wish he would have 220 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:55.059 handled something different or think he should have done something different. 221 00:12:55.639 --> 00:12:58.320 And also, I am not God and I am not 222 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:00.970 the expert in everything. So while I would have done 223 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:06.370 it differently and I'm frustrated about it, he gets. 224 00:13:06.250 --> 00:13:07.230 To make his choice. 225 00:13:07.830 --> 00:13:08.149 And I. 226 00:13:11.929 --> 00:13:16.730 Don't ever want them to not tell me something because 227 00:13:17.090 --> 00:13:20.419 they don't want me to be frustrated or upset with 228 00:13:20.460 --> 00:13:21.500 him or. 229 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:24.320 Whatever and that's that is completely. 230 00:13:23.779 --> 00:13:28.870 Not fair to them um and there's no lines secrets 231 00:13:29.330 --> 00:13:32.289 yeah and there's clear lines in this you know who's 232 00:13:32.309 --> 00:13:34.110 to say what the right choice is in the moment 233 00:13:34.149 --> 00:13:36.070 it can change so we might think ours is the 234 00:13:36.110 --> 00:13:39.169 right choice but there's there's two there's two parent angles 235 00:13:39.230 --> 00:13:41.129 and the one isn't always the right one they're just 236 00:13:41.149 --> 00:13:42.750 different right in some. 237 00:13:42.629 --> 00:13:45.370 Cases i'm sure at times your your ex is probably 238 00:13:45.409 --> 00:13:48.559 thinking rationally that this is the right choice. In his mind, 239 00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:50.559 it's the truth. And in your mind, it's a different truth. 240 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:52.799 So I like that you say that to your kids. 241 00:13:52.820 --> 00:13:54.659 You're like, I'm allowed to feel frustration. It doesn't mean 242 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:56.320 I'm right or wrong, but I'm allowed to be frustrated. 243 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:57.580 Just like you're allowed to be frustrated. 244 00:13:58.259 --> 00:13:58.399 Yep. 245 00:13:58.659 --> 00:13:58.799 Yep. 246 00:13:59.230 --> 00:14:01.690 And you're allowed to be frustrated with him too, for 247 00:14:01.750 --> 00:14:04.409 different things. And you're allowed to be frustrated with me. 248 00:14:04.629 --> 00:14:07.230 And we, you know, and I hope just the same, 249 00:14:07.289 --> 00:14:10.809 like I, we are both teaching you guys to be respectful. 250 00:14:10.870 --> 00:14:14.200 How do you communicate frustration and And you can feel 251 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:16.539 disappointed and not like it and it still be what 252 00:14:16.590 --> 00:14:16.919 it is. 253 00:14:19.070 --> 00:14:20.669 And, you know, for

the most part, I. 254 00:14:21.090 --> 00:14:24.830 Am lucky that I have somebody that we were for 255 00:14:25.230 --> 00:14:30.070 the majority of things on the same page and will 256 00:14:30.610 --> 00:14:31.389 work together to. 257 00:14:33.730 --> 00:14:36.730 Communicate the same messages as far as what's okay, what's 258 00:14:36.750 --> 00:14:37.570 not okay. 259 00:14:38.289 --> 00:14:41.409 Uh, you know, what, where our values and priorities are. 260 00:14:41.690 --> 00:14:47.169 And, um, you know, his, like my son years ago, um, was, 261 00:14:47.610 --> 00:14:49.769 you know, sassed back at me at a, at a 262 00:14:49.809 --> 00:14:53.990 baseball game and, and my ex's dad corrected him and said, 263 00:14:54.009 --> 00:14:54.649 I don't. 264 00:14:54.710 --> 00:14:56.490 Want to ever hear you talk to your mother that way. 265 00:14:56.629 --> 00:14:59.659 And, you know, it's like, we're, we're all, we're all 266 00:14:59.700 --> 00:15:02.399 trying to raise good humans here. And I very much 267 00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:05.240 appreciated that too. And that signals to me that we're 268 00:15:05.299 --> 00:15:07.259 on this, we're on the same team of raising these 269 00:15:07.299 --> 00:15:10.299 humans to be good. And, you know, even if you 270 00:15:10.340 --> 00:15:11.879 don't like me and I'm not saying that that's how 271 00:15:11.899 --> 00:15:15.519 they feel, but even if they don't, that, that still the, the, like, 272 00:15:15.659 --> 00:15:19.870 don't be disrespectful to your mother is what, how we 273 00:15:19.909 --> 00:15:20.970 want to be raising our children. 274 00:15:21.009 --> 00:15:21.190 Right. 275 00:15:22.049 --> 00:15:25.750 So, um, yeah, that's the, I'm lucky in that way. 276 00:15:25.789 --> 00:15:31.580 I know that not everybody has that same type of collaboration, 277 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:36.200 but I encourage people to strive for it because even 278 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:40.289 when I haven't necessarily found felt that or um and 279 00:15:40.389 --> 00:15:43.889 it's been nothing that has been overtly blatant but um 280 00:15:44.129 --> 00:15:47.240 where you could go low and it would it feels 281 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:48.679 like that's what you want to do. 282 00:15:48.620 --> 00:15:50.679 At the time you're kind of setting. 283 00:15:50.419 --> 00:15:53.779 The tone and the example of that that like whether 284 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:57.960 or not you um like me or all the decisions 285 00:15:58.019 --> 00:16:00.379 i make we are all on the same team with 286 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:04.429 them and and we're not going to do that we're 287 00:16:04.450 --> 00:16:07.090 going to lead by example You have. 288 00:16:07.029 --> 00:16:09.409 The same mission, like you said, which is to help 289 00:16:09.450 --> 00:16:12.409 the kids. And there are cases, I always have to 290 00:16:12.450 --> 00:16:15.519 step in with these, where the other parent cannot do that, 291 00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:17.600 like you

said. And it can be ugly and it 292 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.639 can maybe even be blatant. And I think the other 293 00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:22.759 side of that, again, on the child side, which I 294 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.159 tend to bring in, but is your parent can love you. 295 00:16:26.179 --> 00:16:28.649 They could die for you, but it doesn't mean they 296 00:16:28.669 --> 00:16:30.950 have the capacity to parent well. So in some of 297 00:16:30.970 --> 00:16:33.330 these cases, when it's obvious that this is just, you know, 298 00:16:33.370 --> 00:16:35.690 we have parents that don't follow and come and pick 299 00:16:35.730 --> 00:16:38.230 the kids up. You know, they're not consistent. That's out there. 300 00:16:38.289 --> 00:16:41.200 And in co-parenting, that shows up. But that doesn't mean 301 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:43.299 that that child still can't love and care for that parent. 302 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:45.120 You as the other parent can instill the fact that 303 00:16:45.139 --> 00:16:47.860 they love you, they adore you. And maybe the parent 304 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:49.580 wouldn't be the one saying this. It might be the therapist. 305 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:52.690 But not everyone has the same capacity for parenting. It's 306 00:16:52.710 --> 00:16:54.710 a really tough job. And they're not all going to 307 00:16:54.750 --> 00:16:55.230 do it equally. 308 00:16:55.250 --> 00:16:56.129 Absolutely. 309 00:16:56.149 --> 00:16:56.690 Absolutely. 310 00:16:57.080 --> 00:16:59.840 And even if the person that you are co-parenting with 311 00:17:00.100 --> 00:17:04.720 is disparaging you or like trying to set you up 312 00:17:04.779 --> 00:17:07.279 what it feels like for failure or for the kids 313 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.559 to think badly of you. And I would love to 314 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.440 hear your take on this, too, if you agree with this. 315 00:17:14.500 --> 00:17:18.849 But I believe that it really ends up always shaking 316 00:17:18.890 --> 00:17:22.430 out in the wash that like when especially once they 317 00:17:22.470 --> 00:17:26.670 get older, too. They know who's like, even if you're 318 00:17:26.710 --> 00:17:30.309 holding to the discipline and holding to the expectations and 319 00:17:30.329 --> 00:17:34.539 the other one isn't or is bad talking, like you 320 00:17:35.099 --> 00:17:38.359 living in line with your own morals and values and 321 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:40.720 what you want to raise of them, they will see 322 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:45.339 that and know that. And the disparaging comments aren't going 323 00:17:45.380 --> 00:17:48.490 to make your kid not love you. And they may 324 00:17:49.329 --> 00:17:52.529 be confused and questioning whether or not, as far as 325 00:17:52.589 --> 00:17:55.930 respect and that kind of stuff, But ultimately, they will 326 00:17:55.970 --> 00:18:00.269 know kind of what the deal is, right? And who 327 00:18:00.549 --> 00:18:02.829 was acting maturely or

who was. 328 00:18:04.589 --> 00:18:06.289 And so it's not always easy to do that. I 329 00:18:06.470 --> 00:18:06.990 do know that. 330 00:18:07.029 --> 00:18:09.730 I mean, I will be in here listening to some 331 00:18:09.950 --> 00:18:12.970 people's frustrations with their co-parenting and I will get outraged. 332 00:18:13.029 --> 00:18:17.670 Like, this is crazy. And so hard, like, you know. 333 00:18:17.690 --> 00:18:23.200 Because co-parenting and collaborating together, I will tell you, is like... 334 00:18:23.809 --> 00:18:26.569 as difficult as it, as it feels like it is, 335 00:18:27.309 --> 00:18:32.619 it's so much easier than not the like fighting against 336 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:36.480 one another. And it's like, not only is this so 337 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:39.400 hard for the kids, but it is harder for you. 338 00:18:39.700 --> 00:18:42.970 The hardest things I've had to do or deal with 339 00:18:43.109 --> 00:18:45.509 in co-parenting is when we don't agree. 340 00:18:45.529 --> 00:18:48.279 It's, And, you know, so. 341 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:50.980 To be able to try to communicate and get on 342 00:18:51.019 --> 00:18:53.569 the same page as much as possible, work together is like, 343 00:18:53.589 --> 00:18:56.230 it makes it easier for everybody. 344 00:18:57.009 --> 00:18:58.250 And you have to, if you're a parent, you have 345 00:18:58.269 --> 00:18:59.690 to get out of your own way. And this is 346 00:18:59.750 --> 00:19:02.210 true when you're parenting young people, too. I mean, it's 347 00:19:02.250 --> 00:19:05.269 not just about co-parenting, but if you have something that's 348 00:19:05.309 --> 00:19:09.539 in your way, an inflexibility, a past transference or projection 349 00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:11.519 of your own life, your own mental health, you have 350 00:19:11.539 --> 00:19:14.079 a responsibility to work on that so that you can 351 00:19:14.670 --> 00:19:17.220 be someone who can collaborate better and communicate better. Because 352 00:19:17.299 --> 00:19:19.839 usually it's coming from something already wounded in the parent 353 00:19:20.500 --> 00:19:21.960 and they just don't know how to fix it yet. 354 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:23.880 And then it comes out really big when there's a 355 00:19:24.420 --> 00:19:27.130 conflict like this. So it's your obligation, I think. I 356 00:19:27.170 --> 00:19:28.990 think parents need to work on themselves to be good 357 00:19:29.009 --> 00:19:32.670 parents and they deserve it for themselves also. Absolutely. 358 00:19:32.690 --> 00:19:35.289 And this is also where I am a huge advocate. 359 00:19:35.309 --> 00:19:37.819 And of course, this is like, because this is our lens, 360 00:19:37.900 --> 00:19:44.000 but of like our, if, especially kids of divorced or 361 00:19:44.099 --> 00:19:46.180 like not living in the same household of both parents, 362 00:19:46.579 --> 00:19:50.329 for your kids to have a therapist, a counselor, that 363 00:19:50.369 --> 00:19:52.670 they like, that they go to, and it doesn't have 364 00:19:52.710 --> 00:19:55.529 to be every single week, depends on what's going on, 365 00:19:55.910 --> 00:19:58.509 but like somebody they can check in and say, these 366 00:19:58.569 --> 00:20:00.750 people are batshit crazy. 367 00:20:01.450 --> 00:20:03.980 Or like, you know, you want to like this, please. Yes, 368 00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:06.019 dad's telling me this, mom's telling me this. 369 00:20:06.099 --> 00:20:07.720 And this is a huge part of your role too, 370 00:20:07.740 --> 00:20:11.450 where you help them to navigate like, And make the 371 00:20:11.849 --> 00:20:15.369 wise choice and to find their own voice. 372 00:20:15.529 --> 00:20:18.789 And how do you share this with your parents? 373 00:20:19.589 --> 00:20:21.269 And to be like that adult in the room with 374 00:20:21.329 --> 00:20:24.470 a full brain online and who can be helping your 375 00:20:24.490 --> 00:20:27.130 kids to talk through. 376 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:29.339 Any of the things that they're struggling with. 377 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:33.880 And this is a person that is ideal for our 378 00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:37.079 kids to say like, you know, I'm thinking about having sex. 379 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.599 And somebody with their full brain online is like, okay, 380 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:42.539 that makes sense. 381 00:20:43.589 --> 00:20:45.109 So how do we do it safely? How do we 382 00:20:45.140 --> 00:20:47.730 know you're ready? And have these conversations where they won't, 383 00:20:48.089 --> 00:20:51.109 that your kids probably don't want to talk to you 384 00:20:51.190 --> 00:20:54.430 about that as a parent, because... One, they assume you're 385 00:20:54.450 --> 00:20:56.789 going to come from a place of hell no, which, you. 386 00:20:56.730 --> 00:20:58.970 Know, we probably are. Can't help ourselves. 387 00:20:59.430 --> 00:21:03.470 Yes. Right. And and also they don't want to be 388 00:21:03.690 --> 00:21:06.890 in trouble or grounded or then not allowed. 389 00:21:06.650 --> 00:21:10.339 To see the boy or the girl or whatever it is. Right. 390 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:12.759 And so having somebody else to be able to help 391 00:21:12.819 --> 00:21:16.380 them to make responsible, ethical choices that aligns with their 392 00:21:16.420 --> 00:21:19.200 values and think it through and that doesn't come with 393 00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:20.380 consequences for or. 394 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:24.680 No, and they can say what they're feeling. And I 395 00:21:24.700 --> 00:21:27.460 think that should be, like you said, especially when you know, 396 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:30.720 even before you know that the divorce is imminent, to 397 00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:34.569 get somebody in place. I found with my clients that, one, 398 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:36.490 those who come in early and we work with them 399 00:21:36.509 --> 00:21:39.410 through the whole process, we have much better outcomes. And 400

00:21:39.450 --> 00:21:41.630 for those who don't get that help, they're coming back 401 00:21:41.670 --> 00:21:46.890 to me years later with resentments, confusion, unanswered questions that 402 00:21:46.910 --> 00:21:49.839 have been manifesting for years because they couldn't talk to 403 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:52.539 either parent about it. So I love that you brought 404 00:21:52.579 --> 00:21:56.140 that up, that get some kind of help for your 405 00:21:56.180 --> 00:21:58.539 child and for you, the parent, but for the children. 406 00:21:58.619 --> 00:22:00.200 Give them a chance to have an outlet. 407 00:22:00.980 --> 00:22:03.309 Yes. And so also when I have when I'm working 408 00:22:03.369 --> 00:22:08.869 with people in my office and this almost entirely first responders, 409 00:22:09.450 --> 00:22:14.190 I and they're having a difficult relationship or connection with 410 00:22:14.269 --> 00:22:15.289 one of their children. 411 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:18.759 I encourage them to bring the child in with them. 412 00:22:18.779 --> 00:22:22.130 And I tell them, and I will tell the child, like, listen, 413 00:22:22.190 --> 00:22:23.470 I get to work with your dad. 414 00:22:24.109 --> 00:22:26.410 Um, all of the time. So if you've got some beef, 415 00:22:26.829 --> 00:22:29.289 let's talk about it. You tell me and I'm, I 416 00:22:29.309 --> 00:22:31.869 will help him with it. And so you can come. 417 00:22:31.750 --> 00:22:35.230 In and tattle on him or her and say, you know, like, 418 00:22:35.289 --> 00:22:37.789 I don't, and, and now listen, all of the things 419 00:22:37.849 --> 00:22:40.829 aren't always, I will, I will sometimes say, well, we 420 00:22:40.849 --> 00:22:43.430 have to consider the other, other side. And, but how 421 00:22:43.450 --> 00:22:45.190 do we communicate this with him? And how do we 422 00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:46.710 find the middle ground of it? Right. 423 00:22:46.750 --> 00:22:46.990 Okay. 424 00:22:47.730 --> 00:22:51.589 Yes, yes. And we can help him to make or 425 00:22:51.650 --> 00:22:54.390 her to make sure the kid feels heard and seen, 426 00:22:54.509 --> 00:22:57.710 even if that's ultimately that, you know, we have to 427 00:22:57.769 --> 00:23:01.150 make a different decision as a parent. But a lot 428 00:23:01.170 --> 00:23:04.390 of times our kids don't feel like they're even being heard. 429 00:23:04.650 --> 00:23:08.059 So even in that builds that connection of like, I 430 00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:10.700 hear you and I do understand exactly what you want 431 00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:11.609 and why you want it. 432 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:14.319 I get it. You may not get it, but we 433 00:23:14.380 --> 00:23:17.759 hear you. We're not doing that. But I do get 434 00:23:17.859 --> 00:23:21.599 why you want that. And I wish that I could 435 00:23:21.619 --> 00:23:23.680 give you everything you want whenever you want it. But, 436 00:23:24.309 --> 00:23:26.049 you know, that kind of thing. But it's so

validating 437 00:23:26.109 --> 00:23:29.769 to give young people a voice in this. And therapy 438 00:23:29.809 --> 00:23:31.369 is one place. And you're doing it both on the 439 00:23:31.430 --> 00:23:34.869 parenting side and potentially their own therapy to validate that, yeah, 440 00:23:34.890 --> 00:23:36.470 you may not get what you want. Your parents may 441 00:23:36.509 --> 00:23:38.890 not get along. But to validate that this sucks and 442 00:23:38.930 --> 00:23:42.559 it's hard and the different feelings and or that, You're 443 00:23:42.579 --> 00:23:44.259 not getting what you want, but at least you get 444 00:23:44.299 --> 00:23:45.220 to say you don't think it's fair. 445 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:46.420 Yeah. 446 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:51.660 And unfortunately, a lot of times some of what's led 447 00:23:51.819 --> 00:23:57.630 to a divorce or dissolution is infidelity. I mean, particularly 448 00:23:58.029 --> 00:24:02.910 first responders trend higher percentage-wise of that than the general population. 449 00:24:02.930 --> 00:24:08.109 It's not shots fired. I think everybody who is a 450 00:24:08.130 --> 00:24:12.230 first responder has heard these statistics before, but So often 451 00:24:12.309 --> 00:24:17.410 the betrayed spouse will initially, when they find out, just 452 00:24:17.470 --> 00:24:20.569 kind of put it all out on blast. So the 453 00:24:20.589 --> 00:24:23.750 kids hear the minutia of the details and that this 454 00:24:23.809 --> 00:24:25.750 is what happened and this is with who and this 455 00:24:25.789 --> 00:24:31.259 was this thing, which if we can try to avoid 456 00:24:31.299 --> 00:24:33.339 that at all costs, that's ideal. 457 00:24:34.619 --> 00:24:38.960 It does not do them any good and it's not 458 00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:40.990 what's best for them at all. 459 00:24:42.150 --> 00:24:44.230 And then they end up siding with the one parent. 460 00:24:44.430 --> 00:24:46.430 And if there is an infidelity, there's a lot of 461 00:24:46.450 --> 00:24:49.240 things in the marriage that potentially weren't going well. And 462 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:53.190 that was just an outcome of of a bigger picture. Yes. 463 00:24:53.269 --> 00:24:55.569 And what it feels like to the child, even more 464 00:24:55.650 --> 00:24:58.029 so than that, because I know when people are initially betrayed, 465 00:24:58.089 --> 00:25:02.150 they really can't hear that they're, they have, they feel, 466 00:25:02.450 --> 00:25:05.019 they feel like it's blaming the victim if it's where 467 00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:08.160 there's other pieces that led to this, which is true. 468 00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:10.240 We know that like in the bigger picture of a 469 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:14.720 fair recovery, but initially that is like, nobody's hearing that. 470 00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:18.140 But just even if we can think of it in 471 00:25:18.259 --> 00:25:21.009 terms of the kids, like It turns into the kids 472 00:25:21.049 --> 00:25:24.299 feeling like they were cheated on, that the betrayal happened 473 00:25:24.339 --> 00:25:28.779 to them. When we can all agree that, yes, they 474 00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:32.819 are secondary victims of it, for lack of a better word. 475 00:25:32.859 --> 00:25:38.509 But the betrayal was about the marriage, not the children. 476 00:25:38.509 --> 00:25:40.609 100% of the time. Yes. 477 00:25:40.670 --> 00:25:46.710 And so that's a huge reason to not. loop them 478 00:25:46.869 --> 00:25:49.670 in on the details of that, if at all possible, 479 00:25:50.509 --> 00:25:54.220 because we don't need them to be feeling like that 480 00:25:54.279 --> 00:25:57.200 this they were cheated on, that it had anything to 481 00:25:57.259 --> 00:26:00.700 do with them not being enough or them not. 482 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.539 Doing what they needed to do or be good. 483 00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:06.779 Like often kids will feel like, well, maybe like they 484 00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:09.220 mom and dad were fighting about because I got in 485 00:26:09.259 --> 00:26:11.559 trouble at school and like maybe if I was better. 486 00:26:12.170 --> 00:26:14.150 Then they wouldn't have been fighting. Then they wouldn't have cheated. 487 00:26:14.250 --> 00:26:18.130 And all of that, they internalize it as their own 488 00:26:18.190 --> 00:26:21.519 responsibility for things that we would all agree is like, 489 00:26:21.940 --> 00:26:24.980 that is not the reason. 490 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:28.819 And that's why therapy is so important there, too. Because 491 00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:30.920 if this did come from a place and a person 492 00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.819 does know it was infidelity, there's ways to process and 493 00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:37.309 validate and normalize that, too. And not vilify the other parent. 494 00:26:37.349 --> 00:26:39.640 But that takes a third party, right? Like you were saying, 495 00:26:39.660 --> 00:26:42.420 their brains cannot do this in that crisis of divorce, 496 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:45.859 but your third party person can help. Yeah. 497 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.079 And that's also what I will bring in those children 498 00:26:49.099 --> 00:26:54.210 who are really angry at the spouse who did the 499 00:26:54.289 --> 00:26:57.109 infidelity and have them come in and give them a 500 00:26:57.130 --> 00:27:02.869 platform to say their anger and their hurt and betrayal 501 00:27:02.910 --> 00:27:09.869 and frustration and and their reluctance to then now be 502 00:27:09.970 --> 00:27:13.609 introduced to this person, which usually people then want to 503 00:27:13.670 --> 00:27:17.509 introduce that person and say, now this is my person. 504 00:27:17.569 --> 00:27:18.430 I'm in love. 505 00:27:18.670 --> 00:27:23.549 And it's often, especially when the kids know that this 506 00:27:23.589 --> 00:27:28.779 has been in terms of infidelity, it's incredibly difficult for them. 507 00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:29.440 They're not ready. 508

00:27:29.460 --> 00:27:32.990 I mean, And people, I think that's some of the 509 00:27:33.369 --> 00:27:37.640 biggest mistakes people can make is introducing somebody too soon 510 00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:42.619 after the marriage has ended, if they were married or 511 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:47.019 the relationship has ended. And then expecting the kids to 512 00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:52.009 be like welcoming and open arms and like, you know, 513 00:27:52.049 --> 00:27:55.230 it's like, well, no wonder they don't like this person. 514 00:27:55.250 --> 00:27:59.170 I mean, it's really not about the person. It's like, that's, 515 00:27:59.859 --> 00:28:02.119 It's the role they're in. Yes. It's a tough role 516 00:28:02.140 --> 00:28:03.839 to be in. They look like the thing that split 517 00:28:04.180 --> 00:28:06.869 the situation that they just had. We don't have Christmas 518 00:28:06.930 --> 00:28:09.490 anymore the same way because of you. Yeah, yeah. 519 00:28:10.170 --> 00:28:12.109 And even if it wasn't because of, even if you 520 00:28:12.150 --> 00:28:17.380 were introducing somebody and it wasn't, there wasn't infidelity, we 521 00:28:17.420 --> 00:28:22.309 have to understand that aligning or being like liking the 522 00:28:22.349 --> 00:28:26.990 new person can feel like a betrayal to the other parent. 523 00:28:27.150 --> 00:28:28.289 And that is normal. 524 00:28:28.309 --> 00:28:32.269 We, if we can speak to that and, um, and 525 00:28:32.549 --> 00:28:36.019 even give our kids permission when we know that they're 526 00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:41.039 getting introduced to, uh, a new significant other, which again, 527 00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:43.839 with the co-parenting in a, in the ideal circumstances is, 528 00:28:44.539 --> 00:28:47.529 You're letting the other parent know that this is what 529 00:28:47.569 --> 00:28:48.380 you'd like to do. 530 00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:48.970 You'd like to. 531 00:28:48.970 --> 00:28:51.950 Introduce who you've been seeing and that you're in a 532 00:28:52.009 --> 00:28:54.650 committed relationship with somebody now and you want to introduce 533 00:28:54.690 --> 00:28:56.450 the kids and you tell the other. 534 00:28:56.589 --> 00:28:59.750 Parent this first before you do it. 535 00:29:00.829 --> 00:29:03.930 And so that they're prepared and not having an emotional 536 00:29:03.950 --> 00:29:05.519 reaction when the kids come home and say, we just 537 00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:07.640 met dad's girlfriend. 538 00:29:09.539 --> 00:29:12.680 And she's moving in. And then mom's. 539 00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:15.880 Supposed to be like just rolling with it and have 540 00:29:15.900 --> 00:29:18.700 a very mature answer. It's like, well, let's give her 541 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.640 a minute to like to adjust to that herself before 542 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.079 we're having the kids watching her reaction. 543 00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:29.829 But then also that we give that the mom gives 544 00:29:29.869 --> 00:29:33.549 them permission to like her and to, you know, get 545 00:29:33.569 --> 00:29:39.619 to know her. And as hard as that is, believe me, 546 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:43.039 it matters. It matters so much to them. 547 00:29:43.059 --> 00:29:45.960 You're giving, you're not giving this gift to your ex 548 00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:50.079 or to the other person. You're doing it for your 549 00:29:50.099 --> 00:29:51.619 kid or kids. 550 00:29:52.299 --> 00:29:54.420 And that's almost like when you were talking earlier about 551 00:29:54.569 --> 00:29:58.410 when one person might disparage the other, There's a perfect 552 00:29:58.509 --> 00:30:01.490 example of role modeling the right behaviors because you were 553 00:30:01.509 --> 00:30:03.410 saying they might hear mom or dad or this or 554 00:30:03.450 --> 00:30:05.829 that or grandma and grandpa. But the actions are what 555 00:30:05.869 --> 00:30:08.539 play out the loudest. And that's a great example of 556 00:30:08.579 --> 00:30:11.680 they're going to see and remember that you were equal 557 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:14.599 or had parity in it or that you were tolerant 558 00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:17.099 and accepting. And those things do, like you said earlier, 559 00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:18.920 I just want to make sure I commented that for 560 00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:20.269 kids when you were with them, that does come out 561 00:30:20.289 --> 00:30:22.410 in the wash. They really do respond to action, not 562 00:30:22.450 --> 00:30:24.619 words more. Might take a while. They do. 563 00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:28.940 Yes, and kids also can understand. Even if this is 564 00:30:29.059 --> 00:30:32.180 super hard for you and you're brokenhearted and you can't... 565 00:30:32.220 --> 00:30:35.559 You're just devastated that there is now the other person 566 00:30:35.660 --> 00:30:38.900 is going to be involved in the kids. And you've 567 00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:40.970 got all this fear about, are they going to try 568 00:30:41.009 --> 00:30:42.609 to take my place? Are they going to overstep my bounds? 569 00:30:42.630 --> 00:30:44.470 Are they going to be good to my kids? And 570 00:30:44.490 --> 00:30:46.809 this hurt that this person that you loved is now 571 00:30:46.849 --> 00:30:48.670 with somebody else and choosing them. 572 00:30:49.250 --> 00:30:50.390 All this. So hard. 573 00:30:51.190 --> 00:30:53.809 If you can be saying to your kids that you... 574 00:30:54.950 --> 00:30:58.220 like want them to like this person, that you want 575 00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:00.880 this to go well, that you're rooting for this, even 576 00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:06.000 while you're showing heartbreak or sadness, they can get that 577 00:31:06.099 --> 00:31:08.940 both things can be true, that you can be just like. 578 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:10.180 Sad and this hurts. 579 00:31:11.099 --> 00:31:14.819 Um, and that also, that doesn't mean that you don't 580 00:31:14.859 --> 00:31:17.799 want them to be having a.

581 00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:19.480 Good relationship with that person. Right. 582 00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:23.400 Yeah. Yeah. That they can like the person they can, um, 583 00:31:25.089 --> 00:31:27.369 you know, have fun with them and think they're funny 584 00:31:27.470 --> 00:31:32.549 or like whatever and enjoyable. And you can and mom 585 00:31:32.589 --> 00:31:34.509 can be sad at the same time or dad can be, 586 00:31:34.690 --> 00:31:35.950 you know, sad at the same time. 587 00:31:35.990 --> 00:31:39.700 And those things can coexist. That's a beautiful thing to teach. 588 00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:41.819 That's sort of that dialectic that you can have two 589 00:31:41.859 --> 00:31:44.519 things at one time. You mentioned it earlier when you said, 590 00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:46.900 I can make not the best choice as a parent, 591 00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:49.180 but I can turn it into a great teaching moment 592 00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:52.569 by apologizing. You know, so two things can be true there. 593 00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:55.200 And And even when you said that earlier, you said, 594 00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:57.759 I can be frustrated, but that doesn't make your dad 595 00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:01.200 a bad human, right? We have trouble with that. I 596 00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:04.599 find a lot of people have trouble filling in the and, but, 597 00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.680 or the if, then, and that's a great thing to practice. 598 00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:10.740 How can I also add that something else could be happening? 599 00:32:11.220 --> 00:32:14.240 Yeah, and I can disagree, and it doesn't also make 600 00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:17.950 me right, even when I feel very much right. 601 00:32:19.869 --> 00:32:21.890 Yeah, that's a great example. That's why with kids, I 602 00:32:21.910 --> 00:32:23.980 think that's important to say, We don't have to agree 603 00:32:24.059 --> 00:32:26.000 on this. You know, we don't agree, but we can 604 00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:28.109 hear each other and we can acknowledge we don't have 605 00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:31.789 to come to the same truth. I see some benefits 606 00:32:31.890 --> 00:32:34.109 in this. Maybe this is because I'm not in this situation. 607 00:32:34.470 --> 00:32:36.529 But when you were talking earlier about all the things 608 00:32:36.589 --> 00:32:38.390 you have to do to try to parent well in 609 00:32:38.410 --> 00:32:42.279 this setting, do you become like an ultimate communicator? I 610 00:32:42.339 --> 00:32:45.640 feel like if you can handle that situation with all 611 00:32:45.660 --> 00:32:49.039 the emotion and the logistics of it, do you feel 612 00:32:49.059 --> 00:32:50.880 like it helps in other areas? Could that be a 613 00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:54.160 benefit of co-parenting? Yes, for sure. 614 00:32:54.259 --> 00:32:58.380 And even that, like, I do think my ex-husband and 615 00:32:58.420 --> 00:33:02.819 I communicate the best now than we ever have before. 616 00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:09.490 And even when we disagree. And there are day-to-day things 617 00:33:09.529 --> 00:33:12.349 we disagree about. And what the default is, and the 618 00:33:12.390 --> 00:33:15.049 courts will say this too, is that I make the 619 00:33:15.069 --> 00:33:16.630 rules for my house, he makes the rules. 620 00:33:16.490 --> 00:33:25.710 For his house. we do communicate much better, I think, 621 00:33:25.750 --> 00:33:28.779 because we have to, we don't have to really. 622 00:33:28.859 --> 00:33:34.700 So like, even really being like thinking through what, what 623 00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:37.460 I'm going to say, or even, even the battles I'm 624 00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.099 going to pick are the things that, you know, the 625 00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:44.039 things I disagree with is like, I, I can't have 626 00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:47.650 an opinion about everything. I do have them, but, Voicing 627 00:33:47.670 --> 00:33:50.109 them and having them heard, right, is not going to 628 00:33:50.150 --> 00:33:50.670 be fair. 629 00:33:50.750 --> 00:33:53.970 So if this is a thing that is, like, not. 630 00:33:53.750 --> 00:33:57.390 The hill I'm going to die on, then, you know, 631 00:33:57.630 --> 00:34:02.079 waiting for something that is, like, I really, like, really 632 00:34:02.140 --> 00:34:05.759 think we got to either change course or, you know, 633 00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:08.860 I don't agree with the thing. If there's, if I'm 634 00:34:08.900 --> 00:34:10.860 choosier about that and the way that I bring it up, 635 00:34:11.219 --> 00:34:11.960 it's heard better. 636 00:34:12.340 --> 00:34:16.199 And, you know, I definitely do, I do that better. 637 00:34:16.739 --> 00:34:18.880 now than I did when we were married, for sure. Yeah, 638 00:34:19.820 --> 00:34:22.639 because when people are not getting along in any relationship, 639 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.480 there's a lot of static. You think you hear what 640 00:34:24.519 --> 00:34:26.800 you hear. You think you know what they mean. You 641 00:34:26.820 --> 00:34:29.429 think you're reading their nonverbal cues. And often that gets 642 00:34:29.489 --> 00:34:31.550 real muddy. So now you're saying, I can bring out 643 00:34:31.610 --> 00:34:35.610 an actual deliberate, intentional communication that doesn't come with so 644 00:34:35.670 --> 00:34:38.050 much layering. Yeah, absolutely. 645 00:34:38.070 --> 00:34:41.480 It's hurt. And even like I want to kind of 646 00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:45.039 chime in because I hear this as an often like 647 00:34:45.139 --> 00:34:48.980 conflict area too of like kids sports. So, you know, 648 00:34:49.239 --> 00:34:51.989 my kids are in all the sports pretty much around 649 00:34:52.510 --> 00:34:56.269 the clock. And I try, my ex and I try, 650 00:34:56.349 --> 00:34:59.550 we sit by each other at most of the things. 651 00:35:02.030 --> 00:35:04.590 And the difference between that, and we didn't always, in 652 00:35:04.610 --> 00:35:07.210 the very

beginning there was some like, it's also like 653 00:35:07.269 --> 00:35:09.449 figuring out what's this dynamic going to be and. 654 00:35:09.409 --> 00:35:10.429 Not to confuse them. 655 00:35:11.090 --> 00:35:14.690 But what, but what I saw happening with them is 656 00:35:14.730 --> 00:35:17.809 that like, if, if it's my weekend, so they come 657 00:35:17.869 --> 00:35:20.360 with me, then they see dad over there, then they 658 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:21.940 go over to dad and then they come back and 659 00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:23.280 then they go over to dad and then they come back. 660 00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:25.980 And then, and I can, I could feel their like 661 00:35:26.659 --> 00:35:29.460 tornness of like how long they're standing with either one 662 00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:31.500 of us and not wanting like, well, cause I'm not 663 00:35:31.539 --> 00:35:33.110 with dad. I want to make sure I give him time. 664 00:35:33.159 --> 00:35:37.019 And it's like, you know, I, I'm just like, let, 665 00:35:37.219 --> 00:35:40.429 we'll just sit together. They just, then, then they know 666 00:35:40.449 --> 00:35:45.190 we're like, we're cheering for this one, your sibling. We're 667 00:35:45.250 --> 00:35:47.789 all on the same team here. And you can be like, oh, dad, 668 00:35:47.809 --> 00:35:50.469 you know, we're going to go to Grammy's tonight. 669 00:35:50.190 --> 00:35:51.429 And have pizza. 670 00:35:51.469 --> 00:35:53.710 And like and it doesn't have you can see that 671 00:35:53.789 --> 00:35:56.469 we can be just talking about those things or what 672 00:35:56.489 --> 00:36:00.400 happened at school or. And there isn't this because people 673 00:36:00.579 --> 00:36:03.159 have all these big feelings, too, if they're if it's 674 00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:06.760 not their weekend and they're sitting by mom and they 675 00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:10.619 don't come over. And there's all this, I'm like, imagine 676 00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:13.019 these kids are so, so stressful. 677 00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:15.760 I'm in here and I'm stressed. That's their mom, right? 678 00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:17.579 How do they ignore them? That's just. 679 00:36:18.659 --> 00:36:19.000 Yes. 680 00:36:19.139 --> 00:36:21.320 But then there, it feels like the other parent is, 681 00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:23.570 is encouraging that and all that. 682 00:36:23.610 --> 00:36:25.889 It's just kind of like. That's a great point that 683 00:36:26.190 --> 00:36:28.590 somewhere where you have to be in a shared environment, 684 00:36:28.690 --> 00:36:31.889 how do you manage that? And if you're even a co-person, 685 00:36:31.909 --> 00:36:33.949 like I've been in situations where other people are in 686 00:36:33.969 --> 00:36:37.409 that and you're even uncomfortable, you're like, where do we go? 687 00:36:37.510 --> 00:36:40.030 Because these two people are not together, but there's like 688 00:36:40.170 --> 00:36:43.469 photos or stuff. Like it's, it's hard. And these poor 689

00:36:43.510 --> 00:36:44.949 kids really. Yes. 690 00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:47.599 I also like, I will say this to my, um, 691 00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:50.880 that they're friends, parents and stuff at school. So like 692 00:36:51.019 --> 00:36:54.360 our stuff is, should not be making everybody uncomfortable or 693 00:36:54.539 --> 00:36:58.630 any of that. Like we, you know, you, um, even 694 00:36:58.670 --> 00:37:01.190 when they'll say like, Oh, can they come over? Can 695 00:37:01.550 --> 00:37:04.329 you know, your daughter could sleep over this weekend. I'm 696 00:37:04.389 --> 00:37:05.889 not like, well, it's not my weekend. 697 00:37:05.929 --> 00:37:08.230 I can't say. I will say to the parent, it's 698 00:37:08.590 --> 00:37:11.670 not my weekend, but I'll reach out to him. Send 699 00:37:11.710 --> 00:37:13.309 him your number. Let him know. 700 00:37:14.789 --> 00:37:16.949 And I sometimes will even say, I'm sure it'll be 701 00:37:16.989 --> 00:37:18.840 fine as long as he doesn't have something else planned. 702 00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:24.039 But I'm going to loop him in. But that's because 703 00:37:24.059 --> 00:37:30.909 you two communicate. Yeah, but people don't. But really, I think, Like, 704 00:37:30.949 --> 00:37:33.440 I'm insistent on it. And I'm not saying he isn't 705 00:37:33.500 --> 00:37:36.300 or he is resistant, but I can see how if, like, 706 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:38.059 I think you just have to take the lead and 707 00:37:38.099 --> 00:37:38.900 being like, no, this is. 708 00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:39.579 What we're doing. 709 00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:43.139 Like, this isn't fair for everybody else to have to 710 00:37:43.179 --> 00:37:47.230 figure out whose weekend it is or who they're supposed 711 00:37:47.269 --> 00:37:48.690 to text and not text. 712 00:37:48.789 --> 00:37:52.329 And, like, it's like... And it is confusing because I've 713 00:37:52.349 --> 00:37:55.469 been in situations with, you know, my nieces and nephew, 714 00:37:55.849 --> 00:37:57.670 or my niece and nephew, and I'm always like, who... 715 00:37:58.110 --> 00:37:59.289 And usually I just ask the kids. They're a little 716 00:37:59.309 --> 00:38:00.469 bit older, so I can say, who are you with 717 00:38:00.510 --> 00:38:04.670 this weekend? Who do I confirm with? But yeah, it 718 00:38:04.849 --> 00:38:08.219 can travel beyond just the kids and you as a couple. 719 00:38:09.139 --> 00:38:11.900 Yeah. And I would say unless there's a specific reason 720 00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:16.639 not to, put both parents in that group chat and say, hey, 721 00:38:16.659 --> 00:38:19.039 I don't know whose weekend it is, but can Sally 722 00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:20.280 come with us? 723 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:23.360 I just want to make sure, you know? Let them 724 00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:24.940 worry about whether they want to be on the same 725 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:27.119 group chat. Let it be about them, not you. Right. 726 00:38:28.099 --> 00:38:30.480

I want to, I like, I really, if, if, if 727 00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:34.460 any part of, if it is you at all, who 728 00:38:34.519 --> 00:38:36.500 is that cannot be on the same group chat as 729 00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:38.099 your co-parent, I really want you to look in the 730 00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:39.800 mirror because what are we talking about? 731 00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:41.730 Like, this isn't like you're. 732 00:38:42.090 --> 00:38:45.210 Nobody's saying you need to come have the sleepover all 733 00:38:45.250 --> 00:38:49.150 together yourselves. Right. This is like, we're, if we, if 734 00:38:49.190 --> 00:38:51.750 you can't be on the same group chat about where 735 00:38:51.789 --> 00:38:55.070 your kids are going to you think what yeah yes 736 00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:58.250 what we're talking about and if it's not you if 737 00:38:58.309 --> 00:39:01.150 it's your co-parent then that's a them problem that does 738 00:39:01.190 --> 00:39:05.949 not mean like you aunt and kais put them both 739 00:39:06.050 --> 00:39:09.019 on it it's like if you guys can't handle. 740 00:39:08.780 --> 00:39:12.699 This what are we doing what are we doing that's 741 00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:14.760 so funny because someone just texted me earlier today about 742 00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:17.269 what do we do when certain family members are not 743 00:39:17.309 --> 00:39:19.420 talking and we're, we're planning things. And I say, I 744 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:21.139 just plan them and let them do their own thing. 745 00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:23.239 I'm not, I don't get involved in that. I'm still 746 00:39:23.260 --> 00:39:25.590 going to do the thing. And then people can decide 747 00:39:25.610 --> 00:39:27.590 for themselves. Yes. 748 00:39:27.750 --> 00:39:32.139 And like, I'm not, I'm not divorced from them or like, 749 00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:35.360 I'm not not talking to them when there's families, this 750 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:36.019 is family dynamics. 751 00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:38.420 When there's, there's two people in your family that are beefing, 752 00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:42.400 it's like, then let them beef. That's not for, that's 753 00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:48.159 not you. You do you and invite the people. And 754 00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:52.360 if They don't want to come if so-and-so's coming. Stay 755 00:39:52.420 --> 00:39:56.360 out of it. It's like you figured that out. That's 756 00:39:56.380 --> 00:39:59.239 like a whole other podcast, isn't it? Like managing family 757 00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:03.829 dynamics in conflict. See, we always tag something. One thing 758 00:40:03.869 --> 00:40:05.349 I wanted to ask really quick to make sure we capture, 759 00:40:05.369 --> 00:40:07.670 because I know we're getting close on time. Resources. Do 760 00:40:07.710 --> 00:40:10.670 you know of any co-parenting resources, whether within the first 761 00:40:11.050 --> 00:40:14.469 responder community or just in general? Are there sites or places? 762 00:40:15.250 --> 00:40:17.489 Yeah, we can link them into the I've got a 763 00:40:17.550 --> 00:40:21.949 couple that came to mind. Right. And we can and 764 00:40:21.980 --> 00:40:25.480 some therapists that I know that really are do very 765 00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:28.940 good job with this kind of stuff. And even a therapist, 766 00:40:29.019 --> 00:40:32.039 I see that she does. I send most of my 767 00:40:32.059 --> 00:40:35.880 first responders to her for couples therapy. But she will 768 00:40:35.960 --> 00:40:39.550 even do like we're getting we're in the middle of separating. 769 00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:42.429 And how do we tell the kids? How do we 770 00:40:42.530 --> 00:40:46.489 create a parenting plan that works? Because, like you had 771 00:40:46.550 --> 00:40:48.750 asked in the beginning, the nuances of first responders is 772 00:40:48.769 --> 00:40:50.429 their goofy schedules. 773 00:40:50.670 --> 00:40:55.570 So if you're a firefighter in this area, traditionally it's 24-48. 774 00:40:55.579 --> 00:40:55.989 And so.... 775 00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:04.219 How we rotate schedules is not the traditional way that 776 00:41:04.739 --> 00:41:08.820 the gen pop is doing it. And same with the 777 00:41:08.949 --> 00:41:13.670 police officers with 12-hour shifts or rotating shifts or working 778 00:41:13.710 --> 00:41:17.289 night shifts and all of that kind of stuff. And 779 00:41:17.329 --> 00:41:20.130 so she does a really good job of helping them 780 00:41:20.210 --> 00:41:26.079 figure out a good solution for everybody. And like I 781 00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:31.309 said in the divorce podcast we talked about, When you 782 00:41:31.389 --> 00:41:34.769 are starting to create this parenting plan and this agreement 783 00:41:34.789 --> 00:41:36.889 of how it's going to go, the two of you 784 00:41:36.909 --> 00:41:39.530 can either work together and figure out what works best 785 00:41:39.570 --> 00:41:41.469 for you, or you can let the court do it. 786 00:41:42.030 --> 00:41:42.760 The court will do it. 787 00:41:43.050 --> 00:41:45.579 It's got a template and you're going with gen pop 788 00:41:45.619 --> 00:41:47.920 and what the basic is. You're going to rotate each 789 00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:48.559 of the things. 790 00:41:48.579 --> 00:41:51.500 You're going to do this. My ex-husband and I did 791 00:41:51.539 --> 00:41:53.320 not want to do that. 792 00:41:53.460 --> 00:41:57.710 We have created the traditions of like which part of 793 00:41:57.769 --> 00:42:00.760 the family things that the kids are We would want 794 00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:04.050 the kids to be at and we work together that, 795 00:42:04.829 --> 00:42:08.150 you know, these are these are the days and they 796 00:42:08.170 --> 00:42:10.489 have the same tradition each year for all of these 797 00:42:10.530 --> 00:42:13.750 holidays of where they go and what they do. And 798 00:42:13.769 --> 00:42:17.559 that that part was important to both of us. And 799

00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:19.179 we both lose out on some of the things that 800 00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:22.019 is sad. But but when it is the fun thing 801 00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:24.260 that I know his family does that they would want 802 00:42:24.340 --> 00:42:27.530 to be at is like then they should go to that. 803 00:42:27.670 --> 00:42:30.849 That's I want them. Well, I want them always with me. 804 00:42:31.110 --> 00:42:34.590 I do want them to have that, too. And and 805 00:42:34.610 --> 00:42:35.369 so it's that 50 percent. 806 00:42:35.369 --> 00:42:36.750 50 percent of life. 807 00:42:38.630 --> 00:42:42.429 Yes and our schedule is different than most people like 808 00:42:42.469 --> 00:42:43.969 we they go back and forth back and forth a 809 00:42:44.030 --> 00:42:47.039 lot but we also check in with them I check 810 00:42:47.079 --> 00:42:50.199 in with them at least quarterly I mean I'm just 811 00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:53.159 regularly because they're getting older too of like does this 812 00:42:53.219 --> 00:42:56.210 still make sense for you guys we did this because 813 00:42:56.230 --> 00:42:58.110 this seemed to make sense when you were little when 814 00:42:58.130 --> 00:43:02.630 we did this um and they still and I'm want 815 00:43:02.670 --> 00:43:03.750 them to have a say about it. 816 00:43:03.750 --> 00:43:06.190 And they still say it works for them. They like 817 00:43:06.210 --> 00:43:09.530 it that way. I like that you asked, Corinne. I 818 00:43:09.570 --> 00:43:11.409 like that you guys say, is this okay, guys? Now 819 00:43:11.429 --> 00:43:14.619 you're in high school or whatever. Is this still okay? Beautiful. Yeah. 820 00:43:14.699 --> 00:43:16.320 And it's a lot of back and forth for you 821 00:43:16.420 --> 00:43:17.059 on this end. 822 00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:22.300 And some other kids will go week to week and 823 00:43:22.340 --> 00:43:24.380 they're like, oh, I wouldn't want to go a whole 824 00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:26.079 week without. 825 00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:27.699 And it does work. 826 00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:32.349 But you get to create your own If you two 827 00:43:32.429 --> 00:43:35.250 can communicate and if you if you're having a hard 828 00:43:35.289 --> 00:43:38.340 time doing it, it's getting a third party, preferably a 829 00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:42.219 therapist who is familiar with this kind of stuff to 830 00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:44.579 help you navigate what makes the most sense and what 831 00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:46.300 is the least disruptive for them. 832 00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:50.619 For the kids. I mean, there's three layers of people 833 00:43:50.659 --> 00:43:53.170 could you go for. You could get for individual therapy, 834 00:43:53.230 --> 00:43:55.730 like we mentioned, for for yourselves or the children. You 835 00:43:55.750 --> 00:43:59.090 could get couples counseling. which you mentioned you could do before. 836 00:43:59.449 --> 00:44:02.940 And some couples counselors and FBT family-based therapy, some of 837 00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:06.219 those individuals will also work with the family that is 838 00:44:06.340 --> 00:44:09.780 breaking up, meaning when there's the divorce. They will help 839 00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:13.179 with that. Others will help with each separate entity. But 840 00:44:13.219 --> 00:44:15.480 those are three levels of therapy that could address those. 841 00:44:16.179 --> 00:44:20.179 Yes. And I've had families that are post-divorce, everything is signed, 842 00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:22.400 and there are issues that have come up and that 843 00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:28.409 they go as the family unit to to family therapy 844 00:44:28.429 --> 00:44:31.639 together to work through those issues. I've seen that the 845 00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:35.719 newer spouses sometimes have an issue with that. 846 00:44:36.019 --> 00:44:38.340 You're not just healing the new family systems, you're healing 847 00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:40.099 the past one, which is a huge part of these 848 00:44:40.179 --> 00:44:41.070 children's experience. 849 00:44:41.730 --> 00:44:45.610 Which is still a family system. My ex-husband and I 850 00:44:45.690 --> 00:44:49.699 and our two kids... what other, other significant others are, 851 00:44:50.019 --> 00:44:50.840 are not aside. 852 00:44:51.159 --> 00:44:52.679 We are still a family unit. 853 00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:55.300 It's, it looks different and it's got to have some 854 00:44:55.340 --> 00:44:58.139 different boundaries with significant others in it. But at the 855 00:44:58.199 --> 00:44:59.900 end of the day, that is still true. We're the 856 00:44:59.960 --> 00:45:02.420 ones that parent teacher conferences. We're the ones that are 857 00:45:02.500 --> 00:45:05.280 like sitting at every sporting thing. We're the, we're their parents. 858 00:45:05.409 --> 00:45:08.349 So we're still that, and that doesn't ever change. 859 00:45:08.429 --> 00:45:11.090 And, and you share time together as a family unit. 860 00:45:11.829 --> 00:45:14.190 That was still there regardless. And we still should, we 861 00:45:14.489 --> 00:45:22.469 still should. Like, that's also like, there's, major milestones, graduations, showers, weddings, babies, 862 00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:23.340 you know? 863 00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:23.739 Yeah. 864 00:45:23.780 --> 00:45:26.980 It's like, so get along because you're not getting out unless, 865 00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:29.099 unless you're checking out, you're not getting out without this 866 00:45:29.139 --> 00:45:29.900 person in your life. 867 00:45:30.460 --> 00:45:32.300 Well, that's what I always say to like people, you know, 868 00:45:32.340 --> 00:45:35.760 getting married is like, you're not really married, married to 869 00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:38.820 somebody until you have children together and then they're with 870 00:45:38.860 --> 00:45:39.500 you for life. 871 00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:42.940 So learn how to communicate. Learn how to get help. 872

00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:45.929 Because if you go at this with like swimming with 873 00:45:45.949 --> 00:45:48.150 your hands up in resistance, it's going to be 10 874 00:45:48.150 --> 00:45:51.070 times harder than finding a way to go through this 875 00:45:51.130 --> 00:45:53.190 smoother and giving up some of the crap that you're 876 00:45:53.210 --> 00:45:54.789 holding on to. And I say that because a lot 877 00:45:54.829 --> 00:45:56.530 of people are holding on to crap that prevents them 878 00:45:56.570 --> 00:45:58.969 from being amenable. Yes. 879 00:45:59.130 --> 00:46:01.590 And the only people who are paying for that are 880 00:46:01.610 --> 00:46:03.900 the kids. Like you both are paying for it, too. 881 00:46:03.980 --> 00:46:05.659 But the kids are paying the biggest price. 882 00:46:05.739 --> 00:46:08.340 Yeah. And you may not see it now, but it'll 883 00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:11.710 come out. Did we cover everything, Corinne? I mean, we 884 00:46:11.730 --> 00:46:13.269 knew this would be a little more robust. Is there 885 00:46:13.289 --> 00:46:14.889 anything else we want to add before we. 886 00:46:17.929 --> 00:46:19.550 I think the only other thing I would say is 887 00:46:19.570 --> 00:46:23.110 like in deciding about parenting stuff or changing it along 888 00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:27.559 the way is like do the easy pieces first. Like 889 00:46:28.539 --> 00:46:31.960 address the things you don't mind giving up. Like, you know, 890 00:46:32.019 --> 00:46:35.760 the holiday that isn't that super important to you of 891 00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:39.099 the two if you've You know, if you've got one 892 00:46:39.139 --> 00:46:44.619 that is much more emotional for yourself, like speak up 893 00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:47.210 to say that you can, I'm good with you having 894 00:46:47.309 --> 00:46:49.670 this one or this part of the day of this. 895 00:46:51.190 --> 00:46:53.650 And like do the easy parts first or the things 896 00:46:53.670 --> 00:46:55.889 that you're willing to compromise with first. 897 00:46:56.590 --> 00:46:58.590 Wait on the harder stuff for last. 898 00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:01.719 And then if it's still, you can't come up with 899 00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:05.780 a solution, seek wise counsel that is neutral to both 900 00:47:05.820 --> 00:47:06.059 of you. 901 00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:12.400 To help you sort it through. Beautiful. And we only talked, 902 00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:17.429 I think, really about the psychosocial side of co-parenting. And 903 00:47:17.489 --> 00:47:20.489 maybe in the resources, we'll add resources for the logistics 904 00:47:20.550 --> 00:47:22.809 of it. I know there's schedule logistics and there's some 905 00:47:22.849 --> 00:47:25.489 other tools. But those are easy to adopt. Well, I 906 00:47:25.510 --> 00:47:27.969 should say they're easy to adopt. But you're talking about 907 00:47:28.269 --> 00:47:32.750 the really important things to prep this and to start easy. 908 00:47:32.769 -->

00:47:33.750 I like that. Yes. 909 00:47:34.170 --> 00:47:36.880 And then on any, whatever county you'd be going through 910 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:40.579 to do your disillusion or parenting plan or whatever, they 911 00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:44.960 have a standard template that you can find on every 912 00:47:45.019 --> 00:47:49.099 court's website that says, if you can't figure it out, 913 00:47:49.500 --> 00:47:51.219 this is what we will tell you you have to do. 914 00:47:52.389 --> 00:47:54.469 Including if you can't pick up and drop off at 915 00:47:54.510 --> 00:47:56.630 the other person's house, if you've got to do it somewhere, 916 00:47:56.650 --> 00:47:59.630 this is the police station or sheriff's office you go to. 917 00:47:59.710 --> 00:48:01.510 And they have a camera where you're supposed to park 918 00:48:01.550 --> 00:48:02.389 and they have the whole thing. 919 00:48:03.369 --> 00:48:07.510 The guy, my biggest thing was always, and he agreed 920 00:48:07.550 --> 00:48:10.329 with me on this is like, that is, that is, 921 00:48:10.750 --> 00:48:13.260 we are never getting to a point where we are 922 00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:18.139 exchanging them in a police station parking lot, like over 923 00:48:18.179 --> 00:48:19.159 my dead body, right? 924 00:48:19.179 --> 00:48:23.059 That's for Facebook marketplace, right? When you're exchanging headphones. 925 00:48:23.500 --> 00:48:24.039 Yes. 926 00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:27.119 Yes. Come on. I'm coming to you. 927 00:48:27.179 --> 00:48:28.860 You're coming to me. We're meeting in the middle. We're 928 00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:32.139 doing the thing. We're, and when they forget something, this is, 929 00:48:32.659 --> 00:48:35.980 One more little thing. Is their stuff. There's so much 930 00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:40.519 arguments over the kids' stuff. You bought them this, and 931 00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:44.670 now it's at the other person's house. My opinion about 932 00:48:44.710 --> 00:48:50.250 this is that the kids' items, their shoes, their coats, 933 00:48:50.289 --> 00:48:55.269 their jeans, their phones, their iPads, are theirs. 934 00:48:56.510 --> 00:49:01.679 Good. If they want the thing here, they can take 935 00:49:01.699 --> 00:49:02.619 the thing here. 936 00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:07.460 There's been situations where it's like, oh, that bathing suit 937 00:49:07.500 --> 00:49:08.019 stays here. 938 00:49:08.059 --> 00:49:08.929 That's the one I bought. 939 00:49:09.179 --> 00:49:12.269 Well, imagine, you just got a brand new bathing suit 940 00:49:12.309 --> 00:49:15.389 for the beginning of the season, and you can only 941 00:49:15.530 --> 00:49:18.550 use it half the time because this parent says, it's 942 00:49:18.570 --> 00:49:19.610 not your bathing suit. 943 00:49:20.199 --> 00:49:20.380 Suit. 944 00:49:20.389 --> 00:49:22.460 If you bought it for them, it's their bathing suit. 945 00:49:23.179 --> 00:49:24.559 And I will tell you, it is a big pain 946 00:49:24.579 --> 00:49:26.960 in the butt when they forget the thing and their 947 00:49:26.980 --> 00:49:30.610 school thing and whatever. And I am That is where 948 00:49:30.650 --> 00:49:33.340 they see my frustration the most. And I also say 949 00:49:33.380 --> 00:49:36.840 while I'm frustrated and annoyed that it is 930 at 950 00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:39.159 night and we are loading into the car to go 951 00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:40.260 to your dad's to pick up the. 952 00:49:40.219 --> 00:49:43.019 Thing you forgot. I also like to tell them as 953 00:49:43.099 --> 00:49:46.480 I am. It's annoying and I'm frustrated that this is 954 00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:48.000 because they have. 955 00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:51.320 Divorced parents who couldn't stay together. And this is the 956 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:56.300 adult's fault. It's not theirs. We try to remind them to. 957 00:49:56.670 --> 00:49:58.909 think through their things and go back and, you know, 958 00:49:58.949 --> 00:50:01.610 for what they need, but they shouldn't have to worry 959 00:50:01.630 --> 00:50:04.070 about it. They shouldn't have to worry about it. And 960 00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:07.820 so I'm not going to like be mad at them 961 00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:12.019 or I'm mad at myself. I'm mad at the situation 962 00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:14.239 and I'm frustrated at the inconvenience and I'm trying to 963 00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:18.079 get better at even showing that, but it's, you know, 964 00:50:18.280 --> 00:50:20.519 but I'm going to, I'm going to go do it 965 00:50:20.579 --> 00:50:23.159 if it's all feasible and pick up the thing and 966 00:50:23.380 --> 00:50:25.789 drop off the thing and, Make sure they have what 967 00:50:25.809 --> 00:50:26.469 they need. Yes. 968 00:50:26.869 --> 00:50:28.650 And they're used to this. They take their stuff to 969 00:50:28.690 --> 00:50:30.449 school and bring it home. They go to hangouts and 970 00:50:30.469 --> 00:50:33.550 bring it back. They go to practice. So they can adjust, right? 971 00:50:33.590 --> 00:50:35.190 They can, over time, adjust to all this. 972 00:50:35.809 --> 00:50:37.869 They can. And they have gotten better at thinking through 973 00:50:37.909 --> 00:50:39.650 the next couple days and what they need. 974 00:50:40.769 --> 00:50:42.010 But it is like this. 975 00:50:42.329 --> 00:50:44.449 It's the stuff that I hear of like, well, I 976 00:50:44.469 --> 00:50:45.789 bought them all this stuff and then it goes to 977 00:50:45.809 --> 00:50:46.719 their moms and never comes back. 978 00:50:47.110 --> 00:50:47.800 Well, here's what. 979 00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:51.960 Like, what happens because they're kids is not because mom 980 00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:52.880 or dad is a jerk. 981 00:50:53.260 --> 00:50:53.659 It's like. 982 00:50:54.940 --> 00:50:56.659 it works out for us all the time where like, 983 00:50:56.840 --> 00:51:00.090 I end up with a ton of pajamas and he 984 00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:01.280 will have all the underwear. 985

00:51:01.550 --> 00:51:03.030 I know how it happens. I have no idea. 986 00:51:03.489 --> 00:51:07.010 But when they are low on the things, we text 987 00:51:07.070 --> 00:51:09.309 each other and he'll say, well, Eva doesn't have any 988 00:51:09.949 --> 00:51:10.909 pajamas at my house. 989 00:51:11.010 --> 00:51:14.750 I'm like, okay. And sure enough, as soon as this drawer. 990 00:51:14.550 --> 00:51:16.630 Is full at my house, that means the other stuff 991 00:51:16.650 --> 00:51:17.050 goes there. 992 00:51:17.630 --> 00:51:20.090 I load up the bag. You know where it is. Yes. 993 00:51:20.469 --> 00:51:23.130 It's like, If it's not at my house, it's at yours. 994 00:51:23.210 --> 00:51:27.250 And so if we're running low on socks here, I say, hey, 995 00:51:27.289 --> 00:51:28.349 he needs more socks here. 996 00:51:28.369 --> 00:51:32.190 And a bag comes back with some socks. You know, 997 00:51:33.010 --> 00:51:35.349 I would like if I get a divorce in the 998 00:51:35.389 --> 00:51:37.409 future and I'm co-parenting, I would like my husband to 999 00:51:37.449 --> 00:51:41.489 have ownership of all the dirty socks. All over the house. 1000 00:51:41.610 --> 00:51:43.130 I think that should be his part. And I'm going 1001 00:51:43.150 --> 00:51:46.250 to find a neutral person to write that into our plan. Yes. Well, 1002 00:51:46.630 --> 00:51:48.070 I'll tell you what I did, too, because I have 1003 00:51:48.130 --> 00:51:48.670 I have my. 1004 00:51:48.650 --> 00:51:52.230 Orphan sock bin of missing socks, you know. And so 1005 00:51:52.269 --> 00:51:54.710 the one time, like, there's all, there's, like, that are 1006 00:51:54.730 --> 00:51:57.210 just perpetual. These ones I have not found. 1007 00:51:57.530 --> 00:51:58.170 It's been a long time. 1008 00:51:58.409 --> 00:52:01.690 So I sent, because they, you know, lived with their 1009 00:52:01.710 --> 00:52:03.409 grandparents when they were dead. 1010 00:52:03.570 --> 00:52:07.519 So I said, they said, Nona has the same thing 1011 00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:10.360 over there. And I said, well, take this bin to Nona's. 1012 00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:11.599 Find the matches. 1013 00:52:12.260 --> 00:52:15.199 If there aren't, if Nona doesn't have these matches, just 1014 00:52:15.219 --> 00:52:16.969 throw all of these into the garbage. 1015 00:52:17.429 --> 00:52:18.329 Because we're all dumb. 1016 00:52:18.929 --> 00:52:20.690 Because it's been here for too long. These have all 1017 00:52:20.710 --> 00:52:22.849 been here for way too long. These socks are gone. 1018 00:52:23.389 --> 00:52:26.610 They have went into the abyss wherever the socks go 1019 00:52:26.730 --> 00:52:28.969 to die. It's a good feeling to throw out the 1020 00:52:28.989 --> 00:52:31.090 sock that keeps showing up. But I have a puppy, 1021 00:52:31.130 --> 00:52:33.139 so usually the puppy moves the socks. I can't blame 1022 00:52:33.179 --> 00:52:33.780 the kids anymore. 1023 00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:35.380 Oh, yeah. 1024 00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:38.079 Or the dryer. I just put it in the dryer. Yeah, 1025 00:52:38.099 --> 00:52:40.500 or in the dryer. Yeah. Somewhere in the laundry room. 1026 00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:43.599 I think this is really helpful coming from a perspective 1027 00:52:43.619 --> 00:52:45.280 of someone that works with children who deal with this, 1028 00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:48.320 but someone who's dealt with it personally and professionally. It's 1029 00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:50.539 a big conversation, though. I mean, we talked, what, for 1030 00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:52.739 less than an hour. I think there might even be 1031 00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:54.429 a take two on this after we listen to it. 1032 00:52:54.429 --> 00:52:55.030 There's a lot here. 1033 00:52:55.690 --> 00:52:55.949 Yeah. 1034 00:52:56.389 --> 00:52:58.670 Hopefully it's a starting point. We'll put resources and whatever 1035 00:52:58.690 --> 00:53:00.550 we kind of talked about in the show notes. And 1036 00:53:00.570 --> 00:53:02.630 then also there is, for people that missed it, there's 1037 00:53:02.670 --> 00:53:04.840 the divorce podcast that we talked about before this to 1038 00:53:04.889 --> 00:53:05.900 talk about ideas for that. 1039 00:53:06.820 --> 00:53:07.059 Yes. 1040 00:53:07.219 --> 00:53:07.420 Great. 1041 00:53:07.460 --> 00:53:09.079 Awesome. Thanks for listening. 1042 00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:09.980 Yeah. 1043 00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:13.440 Thanks. Join us for our next episode on first responder 1044 00:53:13.460 --> 00:53:14.780 wellness for the whole person.