บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Healing After Abuse & PTSD: Moving Forward and Rebuilding Your Life | Louisa Rodriguez

00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:25.360 Um but yeah, I have crammed quite a lot in. 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:31.360 I feel like I loved a few lives in yeah, in my in my life. 00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:44.159 Um, but also I think from where I've come from, like sort of 11 years ago to now, it's I feel very grateful and for where I found myself at this moment in time. 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:45.360 Yeah, absolutely. 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:53.439 I think you've done so much in such a short space of time that it feels like it is already somehow a lifetime. 00:02:54.400 --> 00:03:02.000 It's strange, isn't it, as well, when you think back, like over the last few months, there's really been this like what were you doing in 2016? 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:06.719 And it's like this sort of like decade, um, this decade backwards of looking. 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:16.479 And I think it really feels like so many people really are in such different places to where they were in yeah, 2015, 16, what whatever it was. 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:17.680 Yeah, I think so. 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:20.479 Um life has changed a lot as well, you know. 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:23.520 I think uh sort of thinking about when I was 20. 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:34.719 We I was talking recently with friends about we went out before the age of social media and all our all our dark nights on in in the nightclubs have didn't they're not out there, they're sort of kept secret. 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:37.680 But uh I think it's interesting to think. 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:46.639 So I turned 40 two years ago, and that was quite a moment for me because when I turned 30, it was like the worst time in my life. 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:52.639 Um, you know, my life utterly kind of fell apart, really, and I felt like I lost everything. 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:55.840 And um yeah, it was a really dark time. 00:03:56.319 --> 00:04:01.439 Um, sort of early 2015, I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress as a result of everything I'd been through. 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:15.120 Um, and then when I turned 40, it was like the best year of my life, and it it was quite emotional for me because I just looked back and I was like, I made a promise to myself. 00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:24.959 So when I got diagnosed with post-traumatic stress, I I cried a lot when I found out that that's sort of what was going on, and it made a lot of sense though. 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:26.959 But I kind of made a promise to myself. 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:29.279 I was like, everything has fallen away. 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:32.720 I had um I felt like I lost everything, but one thing I did have was running. 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:33.680 So I used to run. 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:37.920 I ran a lot, and running was absolutely fundamental to how I recovered. 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:42.160 Um and I often say running saved my life, and it 100% did. 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:45.519 It was a thing, the only thing that great me out of bed at that time. 00:04:46.160

--> 00:04:49.040 And I made this promise to myself the day I got diagnosed. 00:04:49.120 --> 00:05:01.519 I was like, right, your life is really rock bottom, but um you're gonna come back from this and you're gonna make your life even better than it was before all of this happened. 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:03.600 And that was a promise I made to myself. 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:15.839 And it's funny, I wrote like I wrote down over a period of sort of a year or so, I wrote down all these things that I wanted to do and the things that I wanted to achieve, and um sort of just had them there. 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:23.199 And then when I turned 40, I kind of looked back over the 10 years and I was like, I did it, like I did it. 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:32.560 Um to turn 40 with the best of your life coming from like the worst time of your life in a decade, um, and celebrating with friends, you know. 00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:35.120 Because you know, when you turn 40, you've got to celebrate big. 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:42.399 Had like two weeks of celebrations, and it was it was actually quite emotional, it was quite emotional actually, just sort of looking back and realizing that I did it. 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:49.439 And you know, I think it was a decade, and I think that's a really important the life I have now wasn't built overnight, it was built over a decade. 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:58.480 Yeah, and it was lots of small things that add up, and I think and I talk about this a lot actually with leaders and when I'm doing development programs, everyone wants the bit the big thing, right? 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:02.319 They want to be in the big thing, but no one gets to the big thing like overnight. 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:04.079 Everything takes some time to get there. 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:04.879 Every small step. 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:07.439 I'm only gonna cut in that one because we're gonna go back to the beginning. 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:12.319 You're gonna whizz with like 10 minutes, and I'm like, come on, slow down, slow down. 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:26.800 So if you think about um where you were at the beginning, um at the beginning part of that uh decade and where you are now, what is the what's the one truth that it is that you've come to know? 00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:29.920 Is there a word or like a metaphor or something that sums up? 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:32.319 There's a couple, I have one, I've a couple. 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:43.199 So one of the fundamental things that I lived by was I'm gonna take this pain, I'm gonna turn it into something, I'm gonna turn it into purpose and power. 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:43.839 Yeah. 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:48.800 And um so I don't I don't want to talk about the trauma itself. 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:55.439 No, no, no, but the trauma that I went through wasn't clean, shall we say? 00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:07.759 So um it went on for quite a few years, and there was there was a court case, and there was serious,

so I think you know, I'd be like, oh, moving forward, and then something would happen, and it felt like it'd come and sideswiped me. 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:08.240 Yeah. 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:14.720 And so then what I do is I write, okay, I've got to this point where I was like, I'm gonna take this pain and I'm gonna turn it into something powerful. 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:16.639 And I used it to motivate me. 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:31.839 So I remember um in 2014, I no, 2013, I got into ultra running, and I remember watching um it's a very random story, but I ended up with these Irish championships because I was raising when it was PTSD, and there's this woman, and she ran like 140 miles in like 24 hours of this track. 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:33.199 Like I was like, my mind has blown. 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:37.279 I was like, oh my god, I was like, one day I'm gonna run 100 miles, like I want to do that. 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:42.639 And so um I'd be like, right, like I'm gonna I'm gonna do that, and sort of trained. 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:47.199 And actually, my first attempt at 100 miles, this was such a stupid idea. 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:50.639 So I decided I was gonna run 100 miles the day after this court case, right? 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:52.319 And the court case was hideously stressful. 00:07:52.399 --> 00:07:53.199 Run it out, run it out. 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:55.199 It was hideous, hideously stressful. 00:07:55.360 --> 00:08:02.639 Like every day you get moved, and it was all very public, it was in the media, it was very public and hideously stressful. 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:06.800 And every day it would be like, you're gonna be getting caught on Wednesday, and then be like, No, we're running behind, you're gonna be in court and things. 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:08.879 So every day you'd get like getting worked up. 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:11.600 And then I was in the court on Friday giving my evidence. 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:18.079 Super draining, exhausting, and it was kind of an end of like a three-year journey. 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:21.759 And I booked to do this hundred-mile run the next day. 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:24.959 And I remember getting up in the morning at like 6 a.m. 00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:28.079 just being utterly, utterly exhausted. 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:32.559 Like mentally, I just hadn't, and I remember thinking, I don't think I've got it in me in me today. 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:34.799 But I thought, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go show up. 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:40.399 And yeah, I still got to 60 miles, but I I just didn't have it in me. 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:43.600 Yeah, I mean, to be fair, to get to 60 miles, I think I'd be quite happy. 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:46.080 You knew what was really interesting, actually. 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:56.320 I remember I remember it, it was a really cold night, it was like below um freezing, and I was shivering, and it was like mile 45, and it was in the dark, and it was November, and

it was fucking it was grim. 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:57.840 I mean, this just sounds like torture. 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:04.159 Yeah, and I was um and I remember messaging my friend at the time going, I don't think I can do it. 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:06.159 And I've drawn quite a lot of vultures by that point. 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:09.279 I was like, I don't think I can do it, and they're like, and they were like, What do you mean? 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:13.919 And I was like, I just don't, and I said, and I remember saying to him, I feel like I've been through enough pain. 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:15.759 I don't, I don't need to do it. 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:27.360 Yeah, and I had to keep going for another 15 miles because I had to get to the checkpoint to like get out of this race, and then I got to the end, I got to the 60 miles, and I just was like, No, I'm done, I'm done. 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:34.159 Um, but then if anyone is into their running, you kind of once you get the bug for things, you're like, oh, I can't anyway. 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:37.679 I was like, went away and I reflected on it, and I was like, no, no, no, I'm gonna run 100 miles. 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:40.559 But what I realized I needed to do was train my mind better. 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:43.360 Yeah, and the next year I ran a hundred miles. 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:45.279 Yeah, I did a race, a hundred mile race. 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:47.120 Like, you know, that was the thing that I wanted to do. 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:56.240 I think in that kind of sense, I've never run a hundred miles, I've done a couple of marathons, but I think your your body, your mind gives up before your body does. 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:58.639 Like your body will just keep going, going, going. 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:01.039 And it's your mind that's that constant battle. 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:01.600 Yeah. 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:05.919 Yeah, they say like running an ultra is like some like 80% mind, 20% body. 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:06.399 Yeah. 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:12.879 Um, but I remember when I was running that 100 miles, I was like, right, you know, when it got tough, I was like, well, look at everything you've been through. 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:14.879 If you can get through that, you can get through this. 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:18.320 And um, yeah, I don't know how I did it, but I did it. 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:20.159 I was, I was, I was an utter mess at the end. 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:22.960 I remember the last three miles, I put little mix on. 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:24.320 Any any of the little mix pumps? 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:25.039 I love little mix. 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.320 I had them on my iPod for the last three miles, and that's what got me to the finish. 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:29.600 I remember getting to the finish. 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:33.519 And this guy was like, one of the guys that worked on the race, he went, Oh, what are you listening to? 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:34.879 I said, Oh, little mix. 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:37.039 And he went, Oh, a little mix. 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:40.559 And I said, Do not diss little mix, they just got me through the finish line. 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:41.120 Yeah, absolutely. 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:55.600 So, yeah, yeah, I was like determined to do this hundred-mile race, and then there was other things sort of um in 2016, like the the trial was adjourned and it was really unexpected, and loads of different stuff kept happening related to the trauma. 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:59.519 And every time something bad happened, I'd go, right, how can I turn this into something positive? 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:01.759 So I'd always wanted to go traveling on my own. 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:02.159 Yeah. 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.480 And I was like, right, this summer that's it, I'm going traveling. 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:13.360 So I went and travelled around Southeast Asia on my own, and then I wanted to do a conference to like raise awareness of um for the International Day to Eliminate Violence Against Women. 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:15.519 I was like, I really want to do a conference, I think it's really important. 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:17.679 Something else happened, I was like, right, we're gonna make that happen. 00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:25.919 And basically, every time I basically came to this point where something bad happened, I'd be like, right, well, I'm gonna turn it on its head, and how can I use that to motivate me? 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:29.039 And at the top also sounds quite tiring as well, though. 00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:31.279 Like it must have felt quite exhausting. 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:36.480 At the time, I like that was just that was how I dealt with stuff. 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:40.879 Yeah, and I think you kind of get on a I don't think I really thought about it at time. 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:46.080 It was like it was kind of like that I didn't feel like there was any this is how I'm dealing with it. 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:55.600 Yeah, because actually I want to move forward with my life, and I think that was the other thing is I really didn't want I really didn't want the trauma to define me. 00:11:55.679 --> 00:12:06.559 Yeah, so I was like, I want to define myself, and I think because some of the stuff that happened was quite public, like I didn't always feel like I had, you know, everyone would have their own opinion on what happened. 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:07.360 Yeah, yeah. 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:13.279 And I I was like, well, I want to define it, and I don't want to become the trauma. 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.919 Yeah, it's like taking ownership of it, yeah. 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:24.159 And I was really like, I I remember sort of after the trial happened, I was like, right, I want a near second people to look at me for who I am now, not for what happened to me. 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:24.960 Yeah. 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:27.919 And that kind of motivated

me as well. 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:31.840 I was like, I'm gonna define who I am, I'm not gonna be defined by other people. 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:35.039 Um, and it was, it wasn't until lockdown, actually. 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:39.679 I got to lockdown, and basically, if lockdown hadn't happened, I would have had a full-blown burnout. 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:44.240 I was, I was on a train, I was traveling the country for work, and I was on a train every day. 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:47.840 And I remember just being like, oh, it's slightly ironic now. 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:50.559 Because I remember being like in February going, I just need a minute to breathe. 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:51.840 I just need a minute to breathe. 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:53.279 And then it's like be careful what you were. 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:55.360 Did you know you're gonna get because everyone got lockdown? 00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:56.720 I've got a furlough. 00:12:57.279 --> 00:12:59.360 Um, but actually that made me stop. 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:02.879 It really made me stop and go, right, you keep on burning out. 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:09.279 And I actually didn't realise until that lockdown that for a long time I've been running really fast. 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:14.399 Yeah, I've been running really fast and achieve, achieve, achieve, do this, do this, do this. 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:15.840 Look at me, I'm okay. 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:16.320 Yeah. 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:20.639 And actually in lockdown, I was like, I don't need to run anymore. 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:23.519 Like you're, you know, look what you've done, look at where your life's at. 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:26.559 And it was actually a moment then to redefine myself again. 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:27.279 Yeah. 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:37.039 And I feel like in the last sort of 12 years, you kind of, I think that's one thing that I realize is you kind of have to, life is about learning and evolving. 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:42.399 And I think we, you know, you you're in your twenties and you're a certain version of yourself, you're in your 30s, you're a certain version of yourself. 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:47.200 And we kind of have to kind of surrender that version of ourselves to become the next version. 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:47.679 Yeah. 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:55.679 And I think as well, that there's that point where you have the you you have the tools that you've got, and that's how you can that's how you can live with things. 00:13:55.759 --> 00:14:09.759 And it's, you know, the more aware you become, the more experience you get, the things that happen to you, you learn and evolve from it, and you get another set of tools so you can look at things differently and you can come back at them from a different perspective somehow. 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:12.000 What do you think? 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:14.159 Um, I sorry, I think I missed that. 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:19.279 What was the what what was the word that you would um summer that journey? 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:21.919 Oh god, I don't know, it's quite hard. 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.320 Probably a mix of like surrender and hope. 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:33.360 So I think you and actually when I was diagnosed with trauma, one of the things I really battled with for quite a while was I just want to be that person I was before. 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:33.759 Yeah. 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:35.200 I want to be that all glitter. 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:38.639 I used to love glitter and I was like all glittery and everything happy. 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:46.960 But when you've been through something that when you go through like post-traumatic stress, your world isn't safe anymore. 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:47.360 Yeah. 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:54.080 You've experienced something where it's like this and I completely lost trust in myself and I lost trust in other people. 00:14:54.639 --> 00:15:00.879 And I was like, I just want to be that person that can just see love and love and rainbows and see the good in everybody. 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:03.279 And I was like, I just want to be that person. 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:08.399 And it wasn't until I was willing to go you're never gonna be that person again. 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:08.799 Yeah. 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:15.200 Because you can't be, because actually what you've experienced has shaken your world up. 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:15.600 Yeah. 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:17.360 But you can be something else. 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:27.600 And I think in some respects, that process of losing everything, like I lost my career, I kind of lost my integrity, I lost a lot of things. 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:41.440 And then you come back from it, it does make you a bit more like, well, actually, you don't need to hold so tightly to things because all those things that I lost, I'm here, I survived, and things that I never, yeah, things that I never wanted to happen happened. 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:46.080 And and and you know, even now, sometimes I'll sort of sit there and I'll face a hard thing. 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:51.600 And I'll go, Louisa, you know, you can do that, get through get through anything. 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.879 And there's kind of a strength that you can draw from that, yeah. 00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:56.799 Um, and a fearlessness. 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:02.399 I think I've got quite comfortable with fear, um, because I'm so used to pushing that comfort zone. 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:10.879 So tell us about um that's quite a it's like the as we were saying earlier, it's almost like be that thing that you want to, like hope. 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:13.039 Sorry, surrender and hope. 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:19.039 They're the the almost like the the light in the dark of each other, isn't it? 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:21.440 It's like in that surrender, it gives you hope. 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.559 Um, and I guess it's surrendering to that fear, isn't it? 00:16:24.799

--> 00:16:33.120 Yeah, and surrendering, surrendering to the process, which is really hard, because I think as humans we want to feel like we're in control, but we can't. 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:35.759 I mean, and also we don't want to lose control either, do we? 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:38.879 Yeah, and we have to sit with the unknown. 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:44.559 So, like when I work with leaders, I often say people are not black and white, they're every shade of grey. 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:48.320 And that's what makes leadership like amazing, but also very challenging. 00:16:49.039 --> 00:17:02.879 And I think um when I was sort of knee deep in the trauma, I kind of look at it now as like I was in the dark, I felt like I was wandering in the dark, and it was just like a really dark, bleak place. 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:09.279 Um and that hope was just it was like a teeny little bit of light in that darkness. 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:17.759 But what I understand now is so my me and my friend, we used to talk about the caterpillar, and it goes into this chrysalis, right? 00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:19.680 And then it comes out this beautiful butterfly. 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:26.160 But when it goes into chrysalis, it's really like gross and messy, and it's like trans transformative, yeah, and it's really uncomfortable. 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:31.839 But they have to go through that in terms of um becoming a butterfly. 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:35.359 And it's the same with like seasons, right? 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:39.519 Nature does it every winter, everything dies, so it can be reborn again. 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:50.079 And I think that you know, when I was going through the trauma trying to heal, it felt like I had to pull myself apart and put myself back together again and really stare myself in the face. 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:56.000 Because while some of the stuff that happened to me wasn't my fault, I was kind of like, Well, how did I end up in that situation? 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:03.119 Um and it was really like, yeah, it was really lonely, and it was it was yeah, it was pretty dark. 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:11.839 But what I've come to know now is from that darkness, like the life I had now has come from that dark place. 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:31.920 All the things that I wanted and that visions that I created, and like I was saying earlier in February with the Epstein files, like if any, you know, I think a lot of women, and there's a few men I've spoken to who, if you've ever experienced any sort of sexual assault or violence from men, I think the Epstein files were really triggering. 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:39.200 And for me, I ended up back in that dark place, and I was like, I just felt really hopeless, felt really hopeless towards men. 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:41.440 I just like lost my faith for a minute. 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.279 And then at the end of the month, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, we don't do that. 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:45.839 We can't do this. 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:46.480 We need hope. 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:54.960 We need hope that actually, and then I looked back at my month of February and my work that I'd done, and there's all these examples of like great stuff. 00:18:55.039 --> 00:19:05.680 So I was working in Germany with a group of people that were from all over the world, and they were like coming together as a team, supporting each other, and they they actually really valued that diversity of thought that came. 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:14.319 And then I was um on a course which was all about how we hold space when there's polarized views and we bring people together to kind of have dialogue. 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:20.079 And I met these young people that I'm going to Nepal with later this year, and they were really like, can't wait to go and experience a different culture. 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:23.839 And I was like, This is all this good stuff, like this is this is the hope. 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:25.200 And I was like, we have to hold on to hope. 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:40.000 And I think when you're in that, and it's really hard when things are hard, but it's like having to find like whatever small thing to know that it like dark times do end, like the light will come again. 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:44.799 And I think that was really key to helping me heal. 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.359 And I think that's really beautiful the way that you that you put that. 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:56.559 But going back to what you were saying about um like the caterpillar, the seasons in that way, everything is a cycle, right? 00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:59.680 It's like everything that happens, nothing is endless. 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:03.359 Like if we were constantly in summer, we'd we'd be burn out. 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:10.480 We need winter to replenish, to regenerate, to die, to rebirth, and come back again in the spring with a different way. 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:12.400 Like the seasons never come the same, do they? 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:14.799 One winter's heavy, one's light. 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:21.200 Things change, and it is that point of surrendering and surrendering that control. 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:27.759 Because actually, we think we've got control, we've got no control, and it's all is everything's an illusion, isn't it? 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:39.039 And it's like how you how you still take that step and almost like dive into that dark, that pool of darkness, and what does it have to offer? 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.920 Yeah, diving into the unknown, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:54.799 Um and if you hadn't um if you hadn't of realized have come to that point of surrender and hope, where do you where do you think you would have been now? 00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:07.599 So I think the other thing that kind of helped me at that time was I'd seen I'd seen people that were permanent victims and like their mindset, and I didn't want to be

that. 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:09.359 I didn't want to be seen as a victim. 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:13.920 I didn't even want to be seen as a survivor, I wanted to be seen as someone that thrived. 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:17.599 And it's almost like I didn't really feel like I had an option. 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:21.440 There was no option, it's like I can't stay here. 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:29.359 And also I think um, you know, I had to find a way because I had to pay my rent, you know, I had to figure out what I was gonna do. 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:32.160 I had to find a way to pay my rent and make make money. 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:44.319 And um yeah, I just I don't I I don't feel that there was an option, and I and I say that it took many years to get to where I am. 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:47.599 Took many years, it took a psychologist, it took a psychotherapist. 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:50.079 I've had every holistic therapy under the sun. 00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:54.000 Um, your favourite actually, do you know what? 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:56.960 Two things that really helped me. 00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.839 So initially, I saw a psychologist and had trauma therapy. 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:06.000 And that was great, particularly sort of to help me just manage the initial bit. 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:11.839 I went through periods where I needed to have sleeping tablets because my nightmares would get so bad. 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:32.319 Um, but after the trial, which was in 2016, I had this realization, I was like, this trauma is in my body because I had a lot of physical symptoms, it wasn't just like your mind, I had a lot of physical stuff that would go on, and I was like, I need to get this trauma out of my body, yeah. 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:35.920 So I was like, I actually don't think talking to somebody is going to help me. 00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:49.599 And I didn't know like what and anyway, so I ended up going to see a shaman for two years, and she was she was amazing, she was um American, and she used to be nurse, and she was now shaman, and she was very like maternal. 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:55.440 She had this really beautiful maternal Angie, and I'd go and see her, and I can't quite explain what she did. 00:22:55.599 --> 00:23:00.480 She was doing laser stuff, but she really helped me, and it felt like it was helping stuff shift. 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:04.640 But then she sort of said to me, actually, I think you should go to five rhythms. 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:11.039 And five rhythms is something that completely I don't think I would be here actually if it wasn't for five rhythms. 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:17.039 I think like running definitely helped me, but also running was it's disconnecting though, isn't it? 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:18.880 Yeah, like you can escape with running. 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.559 Whereas I've got quite I've over the years of real I've got an all or nothing personality. 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:24.559 So running actually at times I would run. 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:29.759 So sometimes running would be for me because inside I felt quite broken. 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:32.480 I would be like, let's see if I can just break myself. 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:39.440 Because it was a way of the pain that I felt inside running long and run long and hard. 00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:42.319 Yeah, would like I could deal with the physical pain, right? 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:46.079 Because it helped me make sense of the pain I felt inside. 00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:46.400 Yeah. 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:52.480 And I remember talking to the psychologist because I'd I'd basically run loads of miles and I was under-eating, over-training. 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:54.960 And that was like a coping strategy. 00:23:55.039 --> 00:24:01.680 And it, you know, there's far worse coping strategies that could have gone on, but there definitely was a time when it was like, oh, this is yeah, it's too much. 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:15.680 Whereas five rhythms, so five rhythms is something, it was a it's like a Gabrielle Roth, she was American, she set it up, and it's you go through these five waves of um I can never remember this like staccato and then chaos, and then you come down to live. 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:21.440 So it moves you through these, the music's designed to move you through these things, and you ex move differently in each one. 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:28.160 But essentially what it is is it's just this massive, like it can it grounds you and connects you to your body, doesn't it? 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:34.000 And it'll just be like and it's just such a beautiful when you're in five rhythm space. 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:38.000 I honestly think if everyone did five rhythms, there wouldn't be wars. 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:45.519 Honestly, there's just so the energy in a five rhythms room, it's uh like just everyone's just so loving and joyful. 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:50.559 Um, and you you know, no one talks, you don't really talk, you just move. 00:24:50.960 --> 00:25:39.279 And so I went every week, and it was just like, and chaos particularly is just like ah like let rip and dance, and it just allowed me to sort of get this stuff out of my body, and if I was angry, I could stomp it out, and if it was joyful, I was stumped, and and there's actually um I was in Leeds, I lived in Leeds at the time, there's this still take called Christopher Boylan, and uh he ran these these and he was just held the space beautifully, and I go every week for about two years, and um I think for me that I yeah, huge, and I think there was that thing about mind, body, soul connection, yeah, and you have and I I think that's another big thing for me is about our nervous systems and how we take care of ourselves is connecting to our bodies, and and I think you know, I used to joke actually when I was in my twenties, a dancer day keeps the doctor away, but actually I'm increasingly thinking that it's very true.

00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:41.839 Kitchen discos, yeah, the way forward, definitely. 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:50.240 I mean, oh my god, I think that was like my early 20s, like in London with all my gals, like we'd be, yeah, anyways, one and night, yeah, dancing, dancing. 00:25:50.400 --> 00:26:17.680 But I think in that way, what music and dancing can connect you to, it helps you start to express emotion and actually to be able to feel emotion, and especially when you think about like a classic music or something like that, there's no words, but you feel from the tone, from the the um instruments that are being used, you get the sense of something and it it stimulates, he feels it deep inside, don't you? 00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:35.119 And I think I don't know, I don't know about you, but like with a lot of the women that I work with, they're so self-aware, like they know so much about their patterns, they know so much about their triggers, they know exactly why they do what they do, but they can't stop doing it. 00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:54.960 And a lot of it is because it's stuck in the body, and a lot of it is things that we don't remember, and it's you know, five, ten, fifteen, twenty, I don't know, however old somebody could be, um it's things that's just been stuck and stored, and we've we've just forgotten about, yeah, um, but we don't we don't feel it anymore. 00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:58.319 Yeah, and I think um you've got to move like that. 00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:05.200 I think it's a release, it's huge release, and I I notice it now, like I'm um I think you've got to be present with it, yeah. 00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:10.160 And like sitting with uncomfortable emotion, no one wants to do it, right? 00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:13.119 Because it's no and my do you know what my friend says as well? 00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:14.160 My friend says this, right? 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:18.079 She was like, you know, you get certificates, you don't get certificate for this work. 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:20.400 No one sort of sits there and goes, you know, how do you explain something? 00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:26.240 I've just sat in the dark and been dealing with all this icky stuff inside, and like processing it. 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:28.319 No one will go, Congratulations, yeah, well done. 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:29.119 Here's your certificate. 00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:38.720 You've done the work to get slow down, um, and it's really difficult, but it's actually really difficult, exhausting, and it's you know, it's really painful, it's really painful. 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:43.839 Yeah, and um, you know, before I had PTSD, I used to work with a lot of people that had addiction issues. 00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:51.279 And um I used to get really frustrated because the system the system isn't designed to help them deal with the pain. 00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:57.440 Like at the time, there was methadone programs like get them on methadone, because that's a legal form of heroin.

00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:05.440 And but I was like, when you hear their stories, yeah, to been through unbelievable amounts of stuff, and I'd be like, Yeah, it's no wonder that you are. 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:07.920 It all comes back to trauma in the end, doesn't it? 00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:16.000 Yeah, but there's no there was there wasn't that support to help them kind of deal with it in the right way. 00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:21.839 Um and yeah, I think it's it's hard, it's really hard. 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:32.000 Um, it's not linear, it is really messy, it's really messy, and sometimes you just feel like you take for every step forward you take, you take a couple back, and and then you and then also you go, right? 00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:37.279 Oh, I think I'm all I think I'm all good now, and then something will come along and side wipe you and like oh god, here we are again. 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:44.559 Yeah, but I guess that's also like the premise in that way of like the five waves somehow is that like things are not linear, nothing ever is, is it? 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:52.000 So it goes back to the cycles again, like the cycles don't keep the same, and even when the cycle repeats, it comes back in a in a different way. 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:54.640 Yeah, so it's like nothing is ever the same. 00:28:54.799 --> 00:29:02.079 And I think when you were talking earlier, it made me think of I always say this wrong, um, kitsugi, the Japanese art. 00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:17.440 Oh, actually, yeah, and I think it's like that beautiful piece of like something smashing, it repairs back with like a beautiful gold thread and uh not thread pin, but it's beautiful again, but it's just in a completely different way. 00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:44.559 And I think obviously I've never been through PTSD or anything that you have, but in trauma work, in that way, it is about understanding and accepting of yourself that you are you've you've been through something horrendous, but you are still, and I don't mean beautiful like physically, I mean you are beautiful physically, but I mean like you're still beautiful as a person, you're still a whole person, you are just in a you are just different. 00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:47.200 Yeah, and I think do you know actually I forgot about Kinsugi. 00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:53.039 When I found out about that, I was about a year into and it it really I I held on to that actually. 00:29:53.119 --> 00:30:04.000 I used to have a picture of it on my phone because that was I particularly that was talking about the stage I was trying to accept that I wasn't gonna be the person I was before, and and Kinsugi, and I've shared that actually with other people. 00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:23.920 I think it is a really beautiful analogy, yeah, and of like healing your cracks, and I think I feel like there's something for me, there's been an ongoing journey of almost becoming more real as a result and being more authentic, yeah, and more honest and more raw. 00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:36.160 Um well, I think sometimes like when you the more that you and especially where you've been, the more that you keep leaning into fear, the more you keep leaning into that darkness, you turn around and you think, What the fuck have I got to lose here? 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:38.319 And it's like actually, I don't like that. 00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:40.960 I don't want that in my life, I don't need that. 00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:44.079 So you can stand up a lot more and be like, Do you know what? 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:44.960 Fuck you. 00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:46.000 No, thank you. 00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:48.559 Well, also, I think what it made me do, it made me quite brave. 00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:50.960 So, like, I've always been a bit like, I'll just say yes. 00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:53.440 So, some people are like, Oh, how have you ended up where you've ended up? 00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:55.519 And I'm like, honestly, I think it's just because I said yes. 00:30:55.599 --> 00:31:00.640 And then I sort of say yes, and then I sort of go, Oh shit, what have I said yes to? 00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:10.480 Um, and like, for example, so one of the uh consultancies I do work for, they use the psychology of laughter and humour in learning and development. 00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:16.640 And our last year our the we got told we had to do stand-up comedy training, and so I'm oh yeah, that's great, fine. 00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:25.440 So I got on a course, and then it was during Edinburgh Fringe, and we turn up on day one of the course, and they're like, Oh, right, yeah, so you're gonna do stand-up comedy course at the end, um stand-up comedy gig at the end. 00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:27.440 It's also gonna be your first Edinburgh Fringe show. 00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:29.039 And I was like, What? 00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:37.680 Um, and actually, like, um, before we did it, I actually had a minor panic attack, had to down a glass of wine. 00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:43.599 Um, but like that's that's just an example of like I'll just go, Well, yes, what have you got to lose? 00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:46.400 And even if it doesn't work out, you will have learned something, yeah. 00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:58.240 Um, and I think probably going to all of that stuff and kind of getting comfortable with fear, and it's not to say I don't feel fear, but when I feel that fear, I sort of will like breathe through it. 00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:20.079 And um, I was I was actually in the Scottish Mountains the other day, I was talking to my friend about it, and I was like, I still feel fear, but I think because I've been exposed to quite a lot of it, I kind of I'll recognise it and I'll go, okay, this means I'm like out of my comfort zone, I'll just breathe, but I also have a bit of a mantra, it sounds a bit naf, but I sort of say, Oh, you know, I'm a badass, I'm Wonder Woman. 00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:23.599 Because I also know that when you're in fear, you can freeze.

00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:24.079 Yeah. 00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:27.839 So if I tell myself something positive, that will help me keep going. 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:29.519 Um sorry, yeah. 00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:30.240 I'm gonna have to stop you again. 00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:30.720 Say that again. 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:31.359 We need to tell you. 00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:33.279 I'm a badass, I'm Wonder Woman. 00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:35.759 Um, and actually that's got me through some ultras as well. 00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:45.839 I remember one ultra, like literally the last five miles, I was just like, I'm Wonder Woman, I'm Wonder Woman, I can do this, I'm Wonder Woman, I can and it's um I mean you literally are you've got the hair and everything. 00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:55.519 Um, and so I think you know, and actually, when I look back, all that horrible stuff I went through, like I said, I draw strength from it now. 00:32:55.759 --> 00:33:02.000 It's like, yeah, if you can go through, if you can go through that and come out the other side, like this is your choosing to do this. 00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:05.519 Yeah, you didn't get a choice in that, you have to deal with it. 00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:13.200 And I think you know, every time, and and women, you know, and actually talking about turn transforming pain into power and purpose, women are the masters of it. 00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:38.880 When you give birth, like there is no greater transform transformative experience, and you know, I think the depth of strength that women have is just like untold, like it's we don't even know the potential, you know, like the last 50 years, women have more rights and look at the stuff that they're achieving, and I think yeah, this the strength that women have is unbounded. 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:50.160 And I always come back to so in in shaman traditions, uh earth and water is feminine, and fire and sky is so far the sky from fire. 00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:52.720 And for me, I love the ocean, right? 00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:57.200 You look at the ocean, it's just like it terrifies me, but I'm in awe of it at the same time. 00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:04.079 And if you've seen an ocean in a storm, I always think that's the strength that resides in all women, yeah. 00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:14.239 And and when you think like that, it's like, well, what what's possible if we just and I think also like women supporting each other, and and and that's the other thing, actually. 00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:19.840 My friends, I used when I didn't trust anybody, there's a couple of friends, I called them my circle of trust. 00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:26.000 And uh there's like a couple of friends in particular that I would have to get a bit emotional about it. 00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:38.480 Yeah, I wouldn't be here. 00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:41.280 They pick me up off the floor. 00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:44.719 And um Yeah. 00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:46.639 We need that, don't we? 00:34:46.800 --> 00:35:07.760

We need we need that group of people around us that we know are gonna be the ones who are gonna be there to for whatever it is, even if you can't speak for six hours and you're just gonna I'm thinking of myself, don't say anything for six hours, you're just gonna sit and sob in a chair, and but just knowing that somebody is there who cares for you, loves you, wants the very best for you. 00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:10.079 Yeah, that's the best place to yeah. 00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:16.800 My female friends have just um yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be where I am. 00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:19.679 I genuinely don't think I would be where I am today without them. 00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:22.639 They've just um, you know, and so like we're so different. 00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:27.440 Me and some of my my closest friends, we couldn't be more different, and they'll just be like, What are you doing now? 00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:30.239 But they've still, you know, we've got each other's back. 00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:36.559 Um and then they're also the ones that say to you, go Louisa, okay, slow down Louisa. 00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:37.039 Yeah. 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:51.599 And again, in that way, it's like they're they're there as a they're they're your they're your I don't know why I'm thinking of a gear stick in a car, like they're like your support network that are are just gonna be there for whatever stage is going on, whatever is happening, they're just there for you. 00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:55.760 Do you know what I sometimes say actually the greatest loves of my life, they are my female friends. 00:35:55.840 --> 00:36:07.199 Yeah, like and and and I sort of we all would joke that we'll all be old together, and um I'll be the one trying to get you know, climbing out the old people's home, trying to get them to come with me when I run away. 00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:16.079 Um but yeah, I think that's the greatest, yeah, they are the loves of my life, if I'm honest, my female friends, and I don't know where I'd be without them. 00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:27.840 You know, it's funny, one of my friends doesn't she doesn't live near me, but we voice note every day, and we know the ins and in in a in a workings of each other's minds and what's going on, and there's a real beauty to that. 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:44.400 And I think as a woman, I'm so that makes me so grateful to be a woman if those female friendships that we have and those connections and how we can talk and no holes barred, like yeah, I think I think sometimes it's just not it's not celebrated enough in that way, is it? 00:36:44.480 --> 00:37:06.480 Like, I see um older generations where sometimes I don't know, people have got married, they've had kids and stuff like that, and maybe I don't know also any generation doesn't matter, and actually you get so consumed with where you are that you lose that connection to your your female friends, to whatever. 00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:15.760 But those it that's your nourishment that is like your literal sort of like feeding ground, like that nourishment of support, of strength, of growth. 00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:25.360 And also, just quite frankly, sorry Simon, men die earlier, so you know you need your you need your good females around you because who else is gonna be there? 00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:29.119 So it's it is it's so so so so important. 00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:30.880 Yeah, definitely. 00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:35.599 Yeah, friendships, friendships are community, yeah, community, yeah. 00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:38.960 Um and actually I that one I'll share this. 00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:44.480 I moved to Cumbria four years ago, um, which for me was like a fresh start. 00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.599 Like everyone here knew me as a person I was here. 00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:54.079 Yeah, it gives you that sense of what you were saying earlier of like of who you are, not not who you'd be, where you'd been. 00:37:55.360 --> 00:38:05.760 And and it was interesting because I'd read a lot about community and healing, and and for the last I think partly connected to the trauma, I'd worked away for probably the last six years of working in Leeds of living in Leeds. 00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:12.079 And I think that was a conscious decision of I just want to be out, I don't want to be seen, I just want to be tucked away working. 00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:20.079 Um but I was kind of quite disconnected, and if I wasn't, I didn't realise until I moved to Cumbria really quite how lonely I'd been. 00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:22.960 And I moved to Cumberland and just the community here. 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:35.199 And um, that for me was very healing, like just the incredible community, and how everyone just welcomed you in and open arms, and like I said, I didn't realise how lonely I'd been. 00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:37.760 Like we work in a way, you're just in a different hotel room every night. 00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:40.960 Everything is really glamorous, it's really not just in different hotels on your own. 00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:58.639 No, it's no and uh and I think I'd just sort of I think almost hit because I didn't like Leeds was where everything happened, and I think I kind of hit a bit and I came here, and just the level of like acceptance and people accepting me for who I was and just making me feel part of something. 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:00.639 It feels like you could breathe, yeah. 00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:02.400 And you know, like now I love it. 00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:04.800 Like if I've been away for work, I've come back, I'll be insane. 00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:21.840 You know, you can you'll be insane for you thinking you're just gonna go quietly around and you can't like you always bump into somebody, but for me, that's something really beautiful about that, and that when you felt quite alone in the world to then come where you were in a community where there's always somebody there, yeah, to help you, and we help each other.

00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:28.239 That was that was really I almost felt like that was the final part of my healing puzzle, really. 00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:41.360 Um, and creating that for yourself, you gave yourself you gave that uh sorry, you gave yourself that this life, you gave yourself this start, and you've created you've created that community for yourself. 00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:54.559 Yeah, I really well think it was people that were here, um, and they don't even I don't think that most of them even realise like what it did for me um and still does for me, like it's it's really special. 00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:57.039 Yeah, I feel I do feel quite when it's funny, isn't it? 00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:15.119 I can talk about all this horrible stuff when it comes to people, like I think when you've lost trust in yourself and you've lost trust, the ability to trust other people, and your world's been really dark, when you come through the other side, I think one you appreciate things much, much more. 00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:16.239 And that's the other thing. 00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:19.280 Like, like I sit there now and I'm like, God, this is my life. 00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:20.880 Like, I'm so grateful. 00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:37.440 And I don't think I'd appreciate it as much if I've been through that, but to be in a place where you just are surrounded by just people that just care about you and you care about them, and you know, you don't even need to have it's not like deep meaningful, you know, like I go to the coffee shop, they're like, Oh, I haven't seen you for a while, how are you? 00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:45.760 And just that acceptance of who you are when they just completely accept you for who you are, is and you know that if somebody's asking, How are you? 00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:48.559 They genuinely want to know, not like, yeah, good, thanks, how are you? 00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:50.159 Yeah, we're great, busy, busy. 00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:51.840 See you later, like on you go. 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:53.280 And I genuinely want to know. 00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:58.000 And I think also it was that they see me for who I am now, yeah. 00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:01.599 And they don't know me for sort of everything that's gone past. 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:08.880 But it's um, yeah, I feel I mean, I feel very grateful to Cumberland sort of the community that I found here. 00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:13.679 It's been like the best thing I ever did was move to Cumbria, and I absolutely adore it. 00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:21.039 Um and yeah, it's kind of like I said, when I turned 40, I was like, wow, like I I did it. 00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:27.599 It took a long time, quite a lot of twists and turns, and but I think sorry, go on. 00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:30.639 I was just saying, and you know, but the stuff that I envisioned and wrote down. 00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:31.920 Yeah, it's weird actually. 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:36.639 I found some old journals a couple of years ago, and I was like, oh yeah, oh shit. 00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:38.159 That was it. 00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:50.719 Um and yeah, you know, I say when I work with graduates, I'm like, you've got to understand nothing's built overnight, you've it's chipping away and chipping away and chipping away and chipping away, and you'll get there. 00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:51.119 Yeah. 00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:56.159 And and I think the other thing is what may take one person one year, may take someone else ten years. 00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:58.719 And I think that's you know, it's your road. 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:12.159 Yeah, it's like accepting that everybody is you're on your own individual path, but everyone's unique, and what you think you want now in one year's time, six months' time, even you might not even want that same thing because we're all constantly changing and evolving, aren't we? 00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:17.199 So it's like you change your wants and needs change and evolve in in that way as well. 00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:20.239 Yeah, and I think also it's understanding that everything gets you here. 00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:20.800 Yeah. 00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:33.119 And like earlier this year, I kind of had a little bit of a when I was in the February in the dark place and the hopeless one of the other realizations was you know what, yeah, been through some hard stuff, but it all brought me here. 00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:34.239 It all brought me here. 00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:46.320 So actually, as much as it was rubbish and horrible and messy and dark, that was all part of the process to get me here where I'm like, yeah, this is great, this is good. 00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:50.480 Um but we can't see that when we're in the midst of it. 00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:55.119 That's where the sort of kind of surrender and have that hope that you can get better. 00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:57.599 Yeah, I love that because it is literally that opposite. 00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:01.679 It's like surrendering to the process, surrendering to what's going on there. 00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:27.280 And I really am a firm believer that I don't think we don't obviously different in your case, but like we don't take huge leaps forward in trust or something to go backwards, we always end up moving forwards because, like you just said, what tools we had then got us to where we were, but we evolve and change, and it's almost like we keep up skilling, so we keep changing, we keep up skilling, and we keep coming at things from a different perspective. 00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:33.440 And if we accept that and accept that's the process, then we'll just always keep moving forwards. 00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:35.119 But it's it's the fear, isn't it? 00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:35.599 Yeah. 00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:46.400 So what um what's the things that you tell yourself on a day when you're thinking, I just need to get back in bed, and I'm not I'm not facing this, I'm not up to it today. 00:43:46.639 -->

00:43:48.000 Um, what do I tell myself? 00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:49.039 I'm Wonder Woman. 00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:49.519 Yeah. 00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:51.280 I'm a badass, I'm a Wonder Woman. 00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:52.480 No, what do I say? 00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:59.760 Um, I mean, I have like lots of little quotes from my house, you know, uh that kind of help me get through. 00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:04.400 And I mean sometimes when it's this actually this has helped me. 00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:07.039 So Mel Robbins came up with this 54321 theory. 00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:08.000 Oh yeah, yeah. 00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:12.000 And quite a few years ago, when I was like, I can't get out of bed, I was like, 5-4-3-2-1. 00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:14.960 Did actually help me get out of bed? 00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:20.079 Um and I think for me, it's just so I do what I'm grateful for every every day. 00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:21.760 I've done it religiously for years. 00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:25.039 I just start the day with three things I'm grateful for. 00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:35.760 Um and that really helps me because it's like there's always something to be grateful for, even if it's like really simple, like I've got clothes and a bit of food in my cupboard. 00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:38.400 It's like that that definitely helps me. 00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:41.679 Um and the other thing is like a bit of movement. 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:46.800 So do you know what actually what really um really helps me when I'm really struggling? 00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:47.760 A bit of music. 00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:49.599 So I have this, you know, Happy Feet. 00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:51.840 Happy Feet, they have a heart song. 00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:52.639 Right. 00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:55.440 Penguins shouldn't be exclusive to penguins. 00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:57.599 Human beings need a heart song. 00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:02.079 So I go through phases, I love my music, always have music on. 00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:05.039 So um that's a good thing. 00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:12.400 I'll have like a song of the moment, kitchen disco, and I guarantee that will help shift something in me. 00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:15.760 Um, and actually, there's times when I'll be like, I haven't danced. 00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:17.199 I haven't danced for a while. 00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:20.719 I need to dance, and then I for dance and I feel and I feel feel better. 00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:30.960 Um, and I think for me, yeah, I think that moving just shifting, because I you know, I'm very lucky to live in Cumberland, have a nice little village, even just getting out of the house for five minutes and going for a walk, yeah. 00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:32.480 Just those simple things. 00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:35.440 It's like a change of scenery, it's just changing your perspective, isn't it? 00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:37.679 Like moving it changing step, yeah. 00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:38.480 Yeah. 00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:47.519 And finally, um what would Louisa from 2015 what would she have to say to you today, do you think? 00:45:48.559 --> 00:45:52.559 Um I think she'd be very proud of herself. 00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:54.239 Yeah, I think she'd be like, yeah, you did it. 00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:55.199 Yeah, yeah. 00:45:55.679 --> 00:46:02.239 I did I don't think she'd quite believe I don't think she'd quite believe that she do it. 00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:03.840 Yeah. 00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:06.719 But well you bloody, of God, you're gonna rent me quite now. 00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:12.880 Well you bloody have, and we're in 2026, and you're absolutely listening to the plans that you've got coming up earlier. 00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:15.440 I mean, you are literally, you're just getting started. 00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:16.320 Yeah, yeah. 00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:16.960 Definitely. 00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:17.440 Do you know what? 00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:21.039 When someone so when I turned 40, someone said to me, You're middle aged. 00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:27.119 And I was like, No, I'm not middle-aged, I'm entering my second act, it's just beginning. 00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:27.920 I like that. 00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:32.880 And I think now it's like it almost comes back to that societal generational thing as well, doesn't it? 00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:35.039 Of like what 40 used to look like. 00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:48.880 We last year, I not accidentally, it was on TV, um came across um Shirley Valentine, and I I couldn't believe it when she was like, I'm 42, and I'm like, Oh my god, you look like you're 72. 00:46:49.119 --> 00:47:01.920 No offense, lady who plays Shirley Valentine, but she looks so old, and I think it's because that's what maybe 40, 41, two-year-old people look like in in that time, but it's things have changed. 00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:08.639 I mean, we're gonna be working so we're well into our 70s, so in that way, life life has changed, isn't it? 00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:16.239 Like 40 is 30, 50 is 40, and women are starting businesses in their mid-40s at a rate of knots. 00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:24.719 Like, we are the biggest expanding demographic in the in the country, so yeah, you are absolutely just getting started. 00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:35.199 And also, the other thing I want to say is um when I turned 40, someone said, Welcome to your wisdom years, and then I've added in your freedom years, and my friend reminded me, said to me it's your naughty 40s. 00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:38.320 And the other the other last year I was like, I've not been that naughty. 00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:40.639 How can I be more naughty in my 40s? 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:42.159 And I think there's a liberation, right? 00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:48.559 Because as you get older, you don't really like I feel like I care less and I'm less tolerant of things I used to be. 00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:52.000 But yeah, every time one of my friends turned 40, I'm like, freedom and wisdom years. 00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:52.800 Yeah,

love it. 00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:58.639 Yeah, do you ever look back um at photos of you in in your 20s and you think, fuck, what the hell was I worried about? 00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:01.679 I was fucking hot and tiny, and it's like this. 00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:04.880 I just thought I wanted to always be small and small recently. 00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:09.360 So I was going through some of my old USB, I was trying to find um a document anyway. 00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:11.440 It ended up in like this this black hole. 00:48:11.599 --> 00:48:15.519 I found all my old USB sticks with my party, you know, when you had digital cameras and like partying. 00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:24.960 And I I looked at myself and I was like, I used to like I was always thought I was fat, and I was looking at myself, um, Louisa, what what? 00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:26.159 What? 00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:29.840 Um, and yeah, you and never you do, you never feel good enough. 00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:37.440 And I and I looked at them at the photos and I was like, right, you need to just like celebrate your body, like we're not judging, we're not doing this anymore. 00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:49.199 But it was also really funny to look back and um just I mean, I don't know that I'd go if I could go back with the knowledge and wisdom I have now, but I don't think I'd go back to being in my 20s again. 00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:57.280 No, um, and just you know, the wanting to please everybody and the insecurities, and oh yeah. 00:48:57.519 --> 00:48:58.480 It's so funny, isn't it? 00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:30.000 Because like there's all the what I'm coming to realise more and more now is like there's all of these cliches, like you know, you know, maybe women in our 40s, like we tell women in the 20s now, like, oh don't think this, you know, definitely celebrate yourself now, and you like I could god I can't even think now, but there's so many cliches that I feel that come back on a daily basis now, and I'm just like, but they're so true, and we just think they're really cheesy nonsense, but they're not like they're literal gold nuggets that we should absolutely be hoovering up and yeah, taking on board. 00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:32.000 It's a beauty of life experience, isn't it? 00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:36.559 Yes, you and as you you know is they're all life stages, aren't they? 00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:42.480 And you kind of have to go, it's all you always like, Michelle Obama says, we're always in a state of becoming, and it's kind of true, isn't it? 00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:44.960 And you can't get here without going through that. 00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:48.800 No, that's all part of the process, yeah, yeah, exactly. 00:49:48.880 --> 00:50:02.000 Until it's okay hearing somebody else saying something, but until you've actually been through it and witnessed it yourself and felt it, you you don't believe it, and you can understand it, but you don't know it, you don't feel it. 00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:03.360 So yeah, yeah. 00:50:03.920 --> 00:50:05.760 Oh Louisa, thank you so so much. 00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:08.000 That's been incredible. 00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:11.440 Um, yeah, what a journey and what a story. 00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:16.079 I'm excited to see what you're gonna uh what's gonna unfold for you over the next year. 00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:17.440 Some amazing plans. 00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:18.639 So thank you so much. 00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.800 Wow, what an incredible episode and uh journey and story to hear. 00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:31.519 Um that fear, surrender, hope. 00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:42.480 And I think the biggest thing that I took from Louisa's story, I loved the line, nothing is permanent, no state is ever permanent. 00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:56.800 And if we can accept that nothing is permanent, and then when we sit, we can move through something and something else comes at the end, it feels less scary. 00:50:58.639 --> 00:51:14.800 And I started I started thinking about my own surrender, and it was a word that came up a lot on the live recording, as you heard, and it got me reflecting on yeah, what that is for me. 00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:31.119 And I realized it was about control, how much we try to control everything, how I used to micromanage every little aspect of my life, and actually, what it really boiled down to was about perfection or the illusion of perfection. 00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:40.320 I've got my shit together, I'm capable, I can do everything, no problem, jazz hands, give me a broom, and I can broom the floor as well. 00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:50.000 I'm perfect, but really, deep, deep down, it was about proving I'm enough, I can do this. 00:51:50.960 --> 00:52:03.199 And I was so tightly wound up, I was anxious, I wasn't sleeping, super thin, running on nervous energy, stuck in fight, flight, fight or flight, trying to control everything. 00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:05.599 No ball could drop. 00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:08.239 If a ball dropped, it would be the end. 00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:11.920 Like Jesus, what would happen? 00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:14.000 And it cost me so much. 00:52:14.239 --> 00:52:16.079 Top of the list, my health. 00:52:16.320 --> 00:52:22.960 I was thin, my period stopped, I had disordered eating, I felt like a bag of nerves. 00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:33.280 And until I started to slow down and find the connection back to myself and my own wisdom, I found that I could start to let those balls drop. 00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:34.639 And you know what? 00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:40.880 When I did that, nothing changed, nothing broke, and I was alright. 00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:45.840 And I think that's the point, that's the thing, that is the story in itself, isn't it? 00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:58.159 Sitting with those deep, dark emotions, that fear, the things that are coming up, the trauma, whatever that is for you, it's a moment and it will pass. 00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:05.760 Join me next week where I will be talking to another incredible lady about her journey. 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:06.960 Big zoo!