บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Episode 40 - Stamping on the Shoulders of Giants: Deconstruction vs Reconstruction in Modern Fiction

you know, they're like we talked about before in Indiana Jones, it's wrapped up. 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:43.257 Almost perfectly at the end of the last crusade, 00:05:43.927 --> 00:05:48.038 and then it's like oh flash forward a few years later that excellent character 00:05:48.038 --> 00:05:53.488 that you like is now a drunk old and and you know a drunk or or 00:05:53.928 --> 00:05:59.868 fill in the character flaw that has become the exaggerate become their entire personality is this, 00:06:00.488 --> 00:06:05.478 whatever series of flaws we are putting together in order to make you see that 00:06:05.478 --> 00:06:09.478 this new person is going to be so much better yes yeah and this is the thing 00:06:09.478 --> 00:06:13.858 that's sort of breaking them down in in tv shows as well especially long-term 00:06:13.858 --> 00:06:15.412 tv shows what you'll find is, 00:06:15.894 --> 00:06:21.931 that the the characters who have been their longest who have established themselves as being, 00:06:22.558 --> 00:06:28.003 smart or funny or as soon as they want to introduce another character into the mix, 00:06:28.685 --> 00:06:31.858 they will show them in a better light than that character. 00:06:31.858 --> 00:06:35.988 It's like, no, no, I want this person, you know, that person has established 00:06:35.988 --> 00:06:40.295 themselves as being the go-to person, the smart one. 00:06:40.753 --> 00:06:44.478 It doesn't mean they have to be smart all the time, but you're, 00:06:44.478 --> 00:06:48.088 instead of building up the other character, you're reducing down. 00:06:48.588 --> 00:06:54.228 So it's almost like having dials on one of those... Like a sound desk. Exactly. 00:06:55.068 --> 00:06:59.372 Turn down the bass, up the treble. Exactly. You have all these different dials, 00:06:59.540 --> 00:07:05.379 and instead of pushing the one dial up to 8, 9, 10 and writing to that level, 00:07:05.965 --> 00:07:08.833 you go and we're going to reduce everyone down to a 4. 00:07:10.748 --> 00:07:12.670 So the 5 looks great. Exactly. 00:07:13.530 --> 00:07:19.010 So this deconstruction happens all the time. In good TV shows and bad TV shows. 00:07:20.210 --> 00:07:22.600 Why is it, okay, why are they doing 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:28.176 that instead of writing the better replacement? Well, one is they can't. 00:07:29.488 --> 00:07:32.861 As I mentioned, one of the culprits of this is Lindelof, who is, 00:07:33.046 --> 00:07:38.791 they can't fucking write. And others are Dan and Dave, Benioff and Weiss. 00:07:40.590 --> 00:07:46.590 These guys can't simply do it. And And you can also say that there, 00:07:48.070 --> 00:07:56.880 is a societal impetus that while I don't think society is any way more woke 00:07:56.880 --> 00:08:01.000 or less woke or more sexist or less sexist or more racist or less racist, 00:08:01.510 --> 00:08:07.757 there is a push from the Hollywood model to go, well, we have to establish ourselves. 00:08:08.099 --> 00:08:12.000 We must be

the paragons of virtue. 00:08:13.340 --> 00:08:16.100 Is that exactly what's happening, though? It's a case of, yeah, 00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:22.516 your 80s, 70s, 80s, you know, action stars were typically white men. 00:08:23.132 --> 00:08:26.864 And like, okay, well, Jackie Chan. 00:08:28.226 --> 00:08:34.310 Okay, well, yeah, sure, but name Jackie Chan's iconic character, 00:08:34.728 --> 00:08:37.628 like Luke, or Indiana Jones, he doesn't have one. 00:08:37.948 --> 00:08:42.640 Yeah, but he did far, please story, please story two. Yeah, can't name the character 00:08:42.640 --> 00:08:45.788 though. No, no, but the thing is, you don't need to name the character, 00:08:45.788 --> 00:08:48.668 because it wasn't the character, the draw. 00:08:49.008 --> 00:08:53.228 Indeed That's when That's I remember There's a line Recently from It wasn't 00:08:53.228 --> 00:08:56.408 that recently From Anthony Mackie Who said that You don't, 00:08:56.908 --> 00:09:02.828 You're not going to A Falcon movie anymore You're going to A A Marvel movie 00:09:02.828 --> 00:09:05.588 Yeah You're not You're not going to An Anthony Mackie movie You're going to 00:09:05.888 --> 00:09:09.075 A Marvel movie So You're going to You're going to see Like, 00:09:10.016 --> 00:09:16.408 If I asked you to name Tom Cruise's Character In anything Any of the non-franchise 00:09:16.408 --> 00:09:21.351 Movie that you've seen Could you Like Colonel Algren in The Last Samurai? 00:09:22.058 --> 00:09:23.568 Or... Well, sorry. 00:09:24.288 --> 00:09:26.241 Yeah, I know you're right. Cocktail. 00:09:27.017 --> 00:09:30.268 Cocktail, no. You have Maverick in Top Gun. Yeah, yeah. Well, 00:09:30.768 --> 00:09:33.114 that's a franchise. Then you have Ethan Hunt in... 00:09:33.334 --> 00:09:36.888 What about Live, Die, Repeat? Which was... 00:09:38.913 --> 00:09:43.948 Price was his name. Cage. Sorry, Cage. Cage. I was like... No, 00:09:43.948 --> 00:09:45.438 I was thinking of something. Yeah, Cage. 00:09:46.248 --> 00:09:49.342 Fine. Major Cage. Major Cage. by an example but, 00:09:50.788 --> 00:09:55.258 you would accept that the vast majority of people wouldn't identify and go this 00:09:55.258 --> 00:10:01.698 is a Tom Cruise movie same with Jackie Chan that it was a Jackie Chan movie same with, 00:10:02.728 --> 00:10:08.648 even a Stallone movie name all the characters he played like Rocky Balboa name 00:10:08.648 --> 00:10:11.198 his character in Expendables movies no. 00:10:13.128 --> 00:10:18.946 No idea name his character John Hardcastle John Hardcastle Or all the Statham movies. 00:10:19.851 --> 00:10:23.608 Yeah. How many different, you know, you're not going to a Statham movie for 00:10:23.608 --> 00:10:27.198 the name of the character. You know, you, it's, Statham did this. 00:10:27.198 --> 00:10:28.248 Yeah. Statham did that. Yeah. 00:10:30.002 --> 00:10:35.292 And those are the exceptions to the rule of the, there, because Mack, 00:10:35.292 --> 00:10:38.222 one last thing, Mackie was saying was that the vast majority of times, 00:10:38.222 --> 00:10:42.168 as in, I think Tom Cruise was the only example of. Yeah. Yeah. 00:10:43.564 --> 00:10:47.332 Tom Cruise is the only example of. Of someone who you go, I'm going to see. 00:10:47.332 --> 00:10:50.716 Oh, go ahead and tell me. You're not going to see the Tim, let's see the Timothee Chalamet movie. 00:10:50.948 --> 00:10:54.361 You're going to see the Bob Dylan movie. You're not going to see the Dune movie, you know? 00:10:54.663 --> 00:10:59.952 And so there is a. Well, that, yeah, that also works with some directors people 00:10:59.952 --> 00:11:01.312 go to the Christopher Nolan movie, 00:11:02.188 --> 00:11:06.315 this is true yeah but that is that is an exception maybe that and Tarantino 00:11:06.466 --> 00:11:10.252 yeah the Tarantino movie yeah you would go to the next Tarantino movie yeah 00:11:10.252 --> 00:11:11.418 that's coming out I'll taste, 00:11:12.142 --> 00:11:17.392 or one would one would yes but you know those are those are the exceptions rather 00:11:17.392 --> 00:11:22.362 than the rules yeah Jim Cameron I don't know I don't know anymore with Jim Cameron, 00:11:23.322 --> 00:11:26.922 back in the day maybe back in the day because then that becomes you're going 00:11:26.922 --> 00:11:30.322 to the Avatar movie because if you had a choice between going to a Cameron movie 00:11:30.322 --> 00:11:31.676 or going to an Avatar movie. 00:11:33.755 --> 00:11:39.472 Would that be a there'd be a push-pull I imagine on that I always say that the 00:11:39.472 --> 00:11:42.363 reason for this is happening is that there is a. 00:11:44.642 --> 00:11:50.552 The Hollywood has taken this position of being we are the betterment of mankind 00:11:50.552 --> 00:11:54.892 and we are going to direct people on how to be better to one another and how 00:11:54.892 --> 00:11:56.314 we're going to do this is what we're going to, 00:11:57.002 --> 00:12:00.302 With great power comes great responsibility, and they feel like they have great 00:12:00.302 --> 00:12:02.661 power. And they are realizing that they don't. 00:12:06.433 --> 00:12:13.561 The movies that are being lauded are ones that are not these deconstructions. 00:12:14.961 --> 00:12:19.618 Indeed, the ones that are being lauded are the ones that have reconstructions. 00:12:20.779 --> 00:12:26.746 You can do. Yeah. You can take the exact same thing of, this is an old character. 00:12:26.915 --> 00:12:28.145 He's passing over the baton. 00:12:28.772 --> 00:12:32.542 Lanterns is that perfect example. Well, I have a good example as well. 00:12:33.162 --> 00:12:35.638 It's in the superhero realm as well. 00:12:36.562 --> 00:12:39.748 So you take a movie like Dial of Destiny, it's just bad. 00:12:40.393 --> 00:12:44.562 It's bad, that whole idea of knocking Indiana Jones, like your favorite character 00:12:44.562 --> 00:12:48.791 that you followed all your life, and now he's just crap. 00:12:49.682 --> 00:12:55.152 You

know and that is I absolutely hate that and but of a good example of one 00:12:55.152 --> 00:12:56.935 where the older character and that's Logan, 00:12:57.584 --> 00:13:02.082 I hate Logan oh no no no Logan is nah I have to disagree there Logan's great 00:13:02.082 --> 00:13:07.923 really really really really fucking hate Logan and every time it's the master but no it really is not, 00:13:08.682 --> 00:13:14.732 it is a hollow piece of shit it is and it is the science fiction is very very 00:13:14.732 --> 00:13:18.395 bad I can see what they're trying to do and I can see how they're fucking failing, 00:13:19.111 --> 00:13:23.240 But, and in that, there's no passing on of the baton. 00:13:23.913 --> 00:13:30.469 While X-23... X-23, yeah. ...is, she, it's not that she becomes an ex-Wolverine. No. 00:13:31.009 --> 00:13:33.650 She just exists. So there's no passing on of the baton. 00:13:34.418 --> 00:13:37.593 So that's why I would make an exception. 00:13:38.862 --> 00:13:41.542 I would not say... Doesn't fall into the deconstruction realm? 00:13:41.862 --> 00:13:45.632 Yes. Even though they kind of, they have Wolverine suffering and dying, 00:13:45.632 --> 00:13:47.602 and like slowly dying of his... 00:13:48.142 --> 00:13:53.282 You would say that Adamantium indeed his replacement Wolverine yeah as in he 00:13:53.282 --> 00:13:56.256 plays the CGI'd version of himself, 00:13:56.958 --> 00:14:01.633 which he kills off is is the closest to her replacement X-23 isn't, 00:14:02.243 --> 00:14:06.812 there isn't there is as in she is a well at the time of the movie ending I suppose 00:14:06.812 --> 00:14:10.482 yes but then that's again every movie is a capital yeah yeah yeah they could 00:14:10.482 --> 00:14:12.122 have continued that with, 00:14:13.101 --> 00:14:16.474 her possibly taken a role then they would have been a different story yeah well. 00:14:17.848 --> 00:14:21.969 But the Lanterns is, they are, 00:14:22.708 --> 00:14:28.588 it is, it is directly and obviously, it's not, not, not just Phoebe Waller-Bridge 00:14:28.588 --> 00:14:32.448 coming in to replace the guy that you really have an attachment to. 00:14:32.448 --> 00:14:34.758 Yeah. Most people don't have an attachment to Hal Jordan. 00:14:35.373 --> 00:14:38.208 And anyone who's claiming to have an attachment to him, you don't fucking have 00:14:38.208 --> 00:14:42.788 an attachment to him. Well, is, is that why you think Lanterns works is because 00:14:42.788 --> 00:14:46.983 both characters are introduced, essentially, this is a, it is a new project. 00:14:47.332 --> 00:14:52.488 Both characters are introduced at the same time already in the roles of aging 00:14:52.488 --> 00:14:54.588 superhero versus replacement, 00:14:55.908 --> 00:15:01.322 they're existing at the same time basically one is training the other in a way because, 00:15:02.513 --> 00:15:06.238 in the first episode we see four different timelines and then they're definitely 00:15:06.238 --> 00:15:09.488 doing a true detective season one riff which is great because if you're going 00:15:09.488 --> 00:15:11.877 to rip off something off rip off the greatest stuff around, 00:15:13.165 --> 00:15:18.905 Having, you know, they're going to essentially spend the next seven episodes. 00:15:18.905 --> 00:15:23.211 Like how Jordan dies in the end of 2026. 00:15:24.835 --> 00:15:28.135 Yeah. The show is set a decade earlier. He's got a decade left to live. 00:15:28.135 --> 00:15:31.935 Okay. So there is a lot more that he can do. 00:15:32.315 --> 00:15:34.795 So when people are saying, oh my God, they killed him. 00:15:35.175 --> 00:15:37.892 He's still around. Have you, didn't see the trailer? 00:15:39.075 --> 00:15:42.525 He's still around. Yeah, didn't see the trailer. He's going to be around for 00:15:42.525 --> 00:15:45.175 the next six, probably seven episodes. Okay. 00:15:45.515 --> 00:15:47.561 Assuming it's an eight-episode run. I think it's eight episodes. 00:15:48.432 --> 00:15:53.635 So will they get numerous seasons? No, they're Green Lantern. They're Green Lantern. 00:15:54.172 --> 00:15:56.595 The second season. The Green Lantern. The second season, yeah. 00:15:58.792 --> 00:16:03.355 So I think they've already approved the second season, because we're also going 00:16:03.355 --> 00:16:07.674 to have Jon Stewart's Green Lantern in the next Superman movie. Okay. 00:16:08.122 --> 00:16:12.075 As opposed to Guy Gardner. I don't know they're going to part of Gargarner 2 00:16:12.075 --> 00:16:14.374 because Gargarner is also going to feature in this show. 00:16:15.061 --> 00:16:20.325 So, with a different haircut. It's the haircut, wasn't it? Well, 00:16:20.325 --> 00:16:24.181 that was a classic haircut, which I appreciate. It was, yeah, it was comic accurate. 00:16:24.291 --> 00:16:27.067 Yeah, which I appreciate but I don't need it to be. 00:16:27.671 --> 00:16:31.039 But I'd say that in two ways. One. 00:16:32.737 --> 00:16:37.225 They're not deconstructing a beloved character but they are deconstructing an 00:16:37.225 --> 00:16:46.715 aged character so I can understand the hate that's coming out of the right, my God, is palpable of. 00:16:48.346 --> 00:16:51.656 They see the reaction, they see the, oh my God, there's a woman playing a sheriff. 00:16:51.656 --> 00:16:55.626 Oh my God, they're deconstructing a white guy and they're having a black guy in this place. 00:16:56.206 --> 00:17:01.228 That sort of horrible reaction, without actually understanding what's happening. 00:17:01.866 --> 00:17:08.356 They're just seeing the tropes. Yeah. when in truth you have a person who is 00:17:08.356 --> 00:17:11.304 at the end of their days who is coming who, 00:17:12.766 --> 00:17:19.280 has seen too much because if they had a true understanding of this character he has destroyed people, 00:17:20.266 --> 00:17:23.965 he has lived through fucking 40 years of warfare, 00:17:24.886 --> 00:17:28.707 in order to get to where he is now he's happy he's not happy to

retire but there's a, 00:17:29.607 --> 00:17:35.526 there's a conflict in him yeah you talk to any any NYPD cop or any LAPD cop 00:17:35.526 --> 00:17:40.006 that have even done 20 years and they've seen some shit over their time you 00:17:40.006 --> 00:17:43.254 can imagine an intergalactic space cop going yeah. 00:17:44.758 --> 00:17:51.176 I'm done I've seen too much been too far you know gone too high sorry it's 20 00:17:51.176 --> 00:17:57.773 years he he interested himself in in 96 and then it's setting 20 years so yeah so 20 years oh yeah so, 00:17:58.646 --> 00:18:04.006 anyway still same point 20 years of space copping and yeah, 00:18:04.966 --> 00:18:09.566 it rips because he has lost he doesn't you know he doesn't have family he doesn't 00:18:09.566 --> 00:18:14.692 have friends he doesn't have function that's it so you can so it's not that, 00:18:15.162 --> 00:18:20.056 you took the person at the end of the last crusade who had friends and family 00:18:20.056 --> 00:18:23.506 and was riding off together in happiness not the person you took at the end of. 00:18:26.126 --> 00:18:31.085 Return to Jedi who was literally surrounded by friends who was had established, 00:18:31.550 --> 00:18:38.806 a new government who was going to establish a new school for his way of teaching the force. 00:18:39.584 --> 00:18:44.198 All the all the the hope the hope and anticipation for these characters and 00:18:44.198 --> 00:18:49.868 then it was just fucking destroyed it's this person has lived a life and we're 00:18:49.868 --> 00:18:54.368 going to see part of that life we're going to see we've seen him say I'm not afraid but it's, 00:18:55.352 --> 00:18:59.899 and indeed this is why I think that the also the the John Stewart character 00:19:00.227 --> 00:19:06.375 is also being played very very well in that they are do you remember a a movie 00:19:06.521 --> 00:19:08.683 Will Smith movie called After Earth yeah, 00:19:09.355 --> 00:19:14.220 where they where they weren't meant to be weren't meant to show fear yeah, 00:19:14.957 --> 00:19:19.828 that's essentially a green lantern they shouldn't show fear fear is yellow fear 00:19:19.828 --> 00:19:21.551 is the opposite yeah of will, 00:19:22.326 --> 00:19:29.477 and just seeing these two interact seeing them just both interacting with one another they're not, 00:19:30.127 --> 00:19:35.808 being afraid yeah but they are showing other emotions that show put them in 00:19:35.808 --> 00:19:39.836 conflict like there there's It's just... 00:19:40.843 --> 00:19:46.381 There's an awareness behind the writing that makes me really annoyed that Damon Lindelof is involved. 00:19:46.940 --> 00:19:50.137 And this is it, I suppose, if you're talking about, is that then a complete 00:19:50.295 --> 00:19:52.437 and utter lack of awareness of, 00:19:53.132 --> 00:19:58.298 like, surely when the writer of, or writers of Dial of Destiny, 00:19:58.797 --> 00:20:03.400 or the new Star Wars, the Force Awakens, etc. 00:20:04.207 --> 00:20:08.665 Surely when they're going, we're going to do this to a beloved character. 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:15.820 Are they not thinking, we could deconstruct and we'll give them these flaws 00:20:15.820 --> 00:20:20.250 and we'll allow them past the torch to someone else. 00:20:20.250 --> 00:20:24.590 But do you have to be in the toilet when you pass the torch? 00:20:24.590 --> 00:20:33.057 Do you have to be totally ripped apart and broken down and just can't hack it anymore? 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:39.263 Or the line from Trainspotting is like, oh, that's your theory about Sean Connery. 00:20:39.547 --> 00:20:43.251 You get old, you can't hack it, and you die. That's not a theory. 00:20:44.336 --> 00:20:49.507 But that's what's happened to these beloved characters. 00:20:51.683 --> 00:20:57.080 And is there no awareness of that? I think it's... Does that make it worse? 00:20:57.820 --> 00:21:03.980 I think it's hubris. It's the idea that they can write better or they can instruct 00:21:03.980 --> 00:21:06.199 better. That's where it comes down to that. 00:21:08.057 --> 00:21:13.430 These instructions on how to be. You should respect the, the woman with the 00:21:13.430 --> 00:21:16.051 lightsaber, just same as you can respect the man with the lightsaber. 00:21:16.707 --> 00:21:20.160 Despite the fact that the man with the lightsaber spent three years, 00:21:20.840 --> 00:21:24.550 three movies earning our fucking respect. Yeah. 30 years, basically. 00:21:24.550 --> 00:21:27.380 Well, no, no, just the three, no, just the three, just the three movies. 00:21:27.380 --> 00:21:29.071 That was it. Just three movies. 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:33.802 Why does he get to wield it because he defeated Dark Vader Rey didn't. 00:21:36.217 --> 00:21:38.902 You have to actually put the work in. You have to construct. 00:21:39.030 --> 00:21:41.003 You have to construct your own lightsaber. 00:21:41.149 --> 00:21:47.679 Yeah, but in the canon, you have to, Jedi construct their own lightsaber. She never did. Sure. 00:21:47.792 --> 00:21:52.257 She skipped all the building, all the suffering. 00:21:53.801 --> 00:21:56.414 She didn't go flipping through a swamp with Yoda on her back. 00:21:56.617 --> 00:21:59.197 No. She had a brief montage. 00:21:59.697 --> 00:22:03.517 She didn't. Where she already had, always doing all the powers, 00:22:03.517 --> 00:22:05.087 and suddenly she can do force healing. 00:22:05.302 --> 00:22:09.336 So it is not understanding of how to construct. 00:22:09.487 --> 00:22:14.107 You know, it's the reason why I will always go back to gaming as a, 00:22:14.107 --> 00:22:19.565 as in TTRPGs, as a method of developing a character. Yeah. 00:22:19.878 --> 00:22:24.667 That even if it's just power-based, even if you ignore all the strengths of 00:22:24.667 --> 00:22:28.737 how to develop a character, their personality, their relationships. 00:22:30.857 --> 00:22:34.537 Their hates, their wants. even if you ignore that and just

go right I'm just 00:22:34.537 --> 00:22:36.812 going to build up character power wise, 00:22:37.422 --> 00:22:41.877 then you simply look at any TTRPG and go right how does this work okay right 00:22:41.877 --> 00:22:47.227 well they can't jump from level 1 to level 10 without going through experience 00:22:47.227 --> 00:22:48.637 without going through 2, 00:22:48.932 --> 00:22:52.531 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 00:22:52.873 --> 00:22:57.737 simple as that's why like in Dungeons and Dragons it is experience based so, 00:22:58.697 --> 00:23:03.337 it can be milestone based as well I know yeah but the experience points idea, 00:23:04.217 --> 00:23:08.843 as a concept puts a 10th level character next to another 10th level character, 00:23:09.301 --> 00:23:12.537 of equal experience or has passed equal milestones, 00:23:13.497 --> 00:23:18.877 as opposed to what they have done which is put a 20th level character next to 00:23:18.877 --> 00:23:22.597 a 20th level character who's actually a first level character but just with 00:23:22.597 --> 00:23:27.146 all the powers yeah and then and it almost exposes the, 00:23:27.934 --> 00:23:32.762 we're not they then hide behind going clearly you must be a racist or you must 00:23:32.762 --> 00:23:37.872 be a sexist for things like no we want a genuine character like this is what 00:23:37.872 --> 00:23:39.967 more writers should be TTRPG players, 00:23:40.782 --> 00:23:45.653 I've said that for fucking years that it is but the thing is oh sorry I used to say that, 00:23:46.612 --> 00:23:48.512 But with the advent, with more 00:23:48.512 --> 00:23:52.493 and more people looking at things like Critical Role and Dimension 20. 00:23:54.536 --> 00:24:03.243 I think that it has changed it to a, I want that version of the Mercer effect. 00:24:03.348 --> 00:24:11.342 I want a DM who can do all these voices and has all these models laid out and no theater. 00:24:11.342 --> 00:24:16.482 Amazing maps. and yeah. Yeah, it's, it, that is a version of Blake, 00:24:16.482 --> 00:24:20.562 which is grand and I have no problem with it, but their whole theater in the 00:24:20.562 --> 00:24:24.912 mind and being able to adjust on the flying. 00:24:25.542 --> 00:24:29.945 Yeah. I've met too many or even describe. Oh, even, yes, even describe. 00:24:31.282 --> 00:24:35.432 That, that is a, a wonderful tool to develop for, for any writer. 00:24:35.432 --> 00:24:39.472 Yeah. To be able to say, okay, then, you know, as in, what, what are, 00:24:39.472 --> 00:24:40.775 what am I seeing right now? Yeah. 00:24:40.950 --> 00:24:46.678 You're in a tavern there's a fire okay there's a couple of guys okay describe them to me, 00:24:47.311 --> 00:24:50.812 and being able to even off the cuff being able to go okay right let's throw 00:24:50.812 --> 00:24:55.202 some let's put some life into this instead of yeah they're all human why are 00:24:55.202 --> 00:24:57.037 they all human well because this place is racist, 00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:03.262 because and then as opposed to there's one guy with you know with a bandage 00:25:03.262 --> 00:25:07.722 across one eye and a crow sitting on his shoulder dressed in you know tarnished, 00:25:08.362 --> 00:25:10.225 you know broken leather armor, 00:25:11.662 --> 00:25:16.412 with a cloak which seems to have some sort of symbols on the inside of it you 00:25:16.412 --> 00:25:21.580 give it detail you give it purpose you give it spice and the next minute it becomes real yes. 00:25:23.062 --> 00:25:29.602 Then you also have to follow it up that's the thing that is often not taught 00:25:29.811 --> 00:25:34.878 by these by Dimension 20 and Criterole is that you establish that, 00:25:36.078 --> 00:25:39.239 And in a similar way, you're not constructing. You're going, 00:25:39.239 --> 00:25:42.720 here's a one-pager. Is that enough? Well, no. 00:25:44.049 --> 00:25:51.229 You promised this guy with, you know, you essentially promised Strider and you're 00:25:51.229 --> 00:25:55.669 giving us a bouncer as opposed to the king that will. 00:25:55.669 --> 00:26:00.482 His name is Jeff, and he is the champion of biscuits in the tavern. 00:26:00.615 --> 00:26:05.549 The thing is, that alone is, okay, I want, what is a champion of biscuits? 00:26:05.869 --> 00:26:15.249 So there is a meat to that, that is not understood, or that is simply that if 00:26:15.249 --> 00:26:19.541 you attempt to be funny, it's like, hey, I want the next joke. 00:26:20.749 --> 00:26:25.489 Keep it going. Yeah, that if you look at, and this is something that I often 00:26:25.489 --> 00:26:33.979 reference, if you look at Endgame, the Marvel movie, every big plot point is a joke. Okay. 00:26:36.305 --> 00:26:41.495 Trying to go through them here. Okay, so in the last fight, right, 00:26:41.495 --> 00:26:48.411 I said, it's not a problem, but the major, major developments in the fight at the end are jokes. 00:26:49.289 --> 00:26:52.961 The, when, I'll go in reverse order if I remember correctly. 00:26:53.461 --> 00:26:57.950 The, when, when Stark snaps his finger, what's his line? 00:26:58.275 --> 00:27:01.485 I am Iron Man. Which was the joke at the end of Iron Man 1. Yeah. 00:27:02.188 --> 00:27:08.705 When, when, Thor is fighting Thanos although was it was that not just in response 00:27:08.705 --> 00:27:12.492 to Thanos saying I am inevitable yes but it was a joke yeah, 00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:17.865 it was a joke yeah yeah it doesn't matter it was a callback to the joke at the 00:27:17.865 --> 00:27:22.885 end of the thing when when Thanos is fighting Thor when the so when the three 00:27:22.885 --> 00:27:26.235 of them have fighted initially Captain America's next to the side Stark's next 00:27:26.235 --> 00:27:27.920 to the side and it's Thor on Thanos, 00:27:28.625 --> 00:27:31.706 and he's got both Mjolnir and he's got Stormbringer and, 00:27:32.925 --> 00:27:38.330 Stormbreaker Stormbreaker and he has Molnir gets knocked to the side and. 00:27:40.419 --> 00:27:43.092 The

stormbreaker is being pushed into his chest. What happens? 00:27:43.819 --> 00:27:46.399 Captain America picks up the hammer. 00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:52.011 And throws it at the back of him. And Thor goes, I knew it. Yes. Where's that from? 00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:58.513 That's from Age of Ultron. Which was? Which was? A joke. A joke. 00:27:59.757 --> 00:28:04.448 That it moved a tiny amount. Yeah. Caused him to go, shit. 00:28:05.022 --> 00:28:10.159 It wasn't, I know it. It was a joke. Yeah. when just before the final of the 00:28:10.159 --> 00:28:12.159 big lineup happens where it's 00:28:12.159 --> 00:28:16.589 going to be all of Thanos' forces against Captain America he's just he, 00:28:17.476 --> 00:28:22.319 straps on the half of the shield you know whatever like the cut in his arm he's 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:27.369 like he's he's inches away from saying I can do this all day which again is 00:28:27.369 --> 00:28:31.414 a joke but they don't use it because they use it as a different part of the thing. 00:28:33.179 --> 00:28:38.969 What's the line that starts the big surge of characters coming in on your left 00:28:38.969 --> 00:28:44.057 on your left which is a joke from from Winter Soldier Winter Soldier yeah, 00:28:45.073 --> 00:28:48.199 all of them are jokes yeah they're all jokes, 00:28:49.322 --> 00:28:54.939 and this is the the crux of the matter of why what Doomsday's gonna suck why 00:28:54.939 --> 00:28:57.159 all the rest of the movies are sucking is that they, 00:28:57.779 --> 00:29:01.679 the Russo brothers essentially emptied out the option box they built all these 00:29:01.679 --> 00:29:05.069 different movies and then they went along and they took bits out of it went 00:29:05.069 --> 00:29:08.339 okay let's sprinkle in here and then delivered one. 00:29:08.339 --> 00:29:11.209 It's like, callback, callback, callback, callback, callback. 00:29:11.209 --> 00:29:14.154 All we want is callbacks. Remember the thing you saw? 00:29:14.299 --> 00:29:17.410 The nostalgia. We're doing that again except in a different way. 00:29:18.399 --> 00:29:19.285 And those things... 00:29:20.337 --> 00:29:24.870 Living through those movies, coming to the end of Endgame and going, yep, I accept it. 00:29:26.021 --> 00:29:30.246 I will welcome this nostalgia because they went along and they built, 00:29:30.913 --> 00:29:32.347 they constructed these two pieces. 00:29:32.603 --> 00:29:38.491 These things are jokes, but you could also say that they are reference points between characters. 00:29:39.464 --> 00:29:46.566 That Thor saw him going, almost picking up Mjolnir. That Sam and Steve had a 00:29:46.699 --> 00:29:50.542 decent relationship and that was the ignition point for that relationship was, 00:29:51.030 --> 00:29:52.406 on your left. On your left. 00:29:53.282 --> 00:29:59.751 The fact that he was coming back to save to save with everyone else that moment 00:29:59.751 --> 00:30:06.354 of yeah, you have that fist bumping moment because of the

things that have built up over time. 00:30:06.772 --> 00:30:12.711 You do not have that with Doomsday. You do not have with all these other these 00:30:12.711 --> 00:30:16.701 franchise and because there's no establishment anymore. 00:30:17.081 --> 00:30:18.963 They feel they want to skip to the end. 00:30:19.821 --> 00:30:24.721 Yeah, TikTok generation. Yeah. They want to go, this is, you want the big thing? 00:30:24.721 --> 00:30:28.291 We don't have time to build up a character properly. 00:30:28.943 --> 00:30:32.141 So that's too bad for everybody that's watching. We're just going to give you, 00:30:32.621 --> 00:30:36.147 what we give you. But the problem is they're still delivering three-hour movies. Yeah. 00:30:36.617 --> 00:30:39.154 So they're still going, we want you to come in. 00:30:39.641 --> 00:30:42.608 We want you to watch this three-hour movie. It's like. 00:30:44.131 --> 00:30:48.876 Why yeah what are you delivering to us in this three-hour movie except for you're 00:30:48.876 --> 00:30:52.536 telling us that there's only 64 different characters everyone's gonna have two minutes 00:30:52.809 --> 00:30:57.756 of screen time maybe or nine or two each or like in dial of destiny for example 00:30:57.756 --> 00:31:01.736 they're like oh yeah i get to see my beloved indiana jones doing adventures 00:31:01.736 --> 00:31:03.953 again great i'm in i'm going to that movie 00:31:04.270 --> 00:31:06.963 and as i'm not what the hell is this crap, 00:31:07.492 --> 00:31:10.401 why like what what am i doing here like, 00:31:11.175 --> 00:31:13.334 i have no issue with phoebe waller bridge. 00:31:15.436 --> 00:31:20.817 But i mean i think i think it was poor casting yeah for that particular role sure, 00:31:21.524 --> 00:31:26.356 but yeah you're just thinking this is going against everything i was promised 00:31:26.356 --> 00:31:31.816 by the fact this is true also yeah yeah but the fact it's another indiana jones movie and you know, 00:31:33.128 --> 00:31:38.774 if the the the crystal skull or whatever the hell that previous movie was yeah 00:31:38.988 --> 00:31:42.835 of kingdom of the crystal skull yeah um you should know, 00:31:43.596 --> 00:31:48.036 going into dial of destiny what they've already done in in the crystal skull 00:31:48.036 --> 00:31:52.786 the kingdom of the crystal skull which was kind of along those lines of indiana 00:31:52.786 --> 00:31:55.438 jones is the the butt of the joke yes, 00:31:56.247 --> 00:32:02.004 and why why did you need to make him the butt of the joke he's a great character, 00:32:02.446 --> 00:32:09.806 great three movies now you have him like oh you're too old and you're too you don't have it anymore. 00:32:10.091 --> 00:32:16.136 You're not good enough to be, like, I suppose Shia LaBeouf would have been going 00:32:16.136 --> 00:32:18.456 forward had that been the plan. 00:32:18.796 --> 00:32:21.786 He would have, because he gets the hat at the end and there was all this kind 00:32:21.786 --> 00:32:25.423 of, you know, this symbolism of perhaps he's going to, 00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:30.179 be an archaeologist and follow in his father's footsteps and Marion and Indy 00:32:30.179 --> 00:32:33.879 are going to live happily ever after and we're going to follow Shia LaBeouf. 00:32:34.454 --> 00:32:37.429 Maybe a call back to Indy or getting them to help with something. 00:32:37.429 --> 00:32:40.869 In the same way Sean Comrie was only in a few scenes. 00:32:42.552 --> 00:32:47.370 Essentially, he would stand in the background as Harrison Ford did the foreground stuff. 00:32:47.620 --> 00:32:52.169 Absolutely. Or Shia LaBeouf could have been, like, maybe Harrison Ford's Indiana 00:32:52.169 --> 00:32:53.329 Jones went missing again. 00:32:54.089 --> 00:32:58.969 Sure, sure. They could do something like, who knows what the plan was, 00:33:00.005 --> 00:33:04.920 but whatever the plan was, it didn't need to make Indiana Jones pathetic. 00:33:05.797 --> 00:33:10.912 Absolutely. And again, this comes down to the deconstruction versus reconstruction. Yeah. 00:33:12.138 --> 00:33:13.763 If you are going to spend time. 00:33:16.669 --> 00:33:21.487 You have to give us a reason for the next character. Yeah. 00:33:22.102 --> 00:33:26.061 For this person is good because this person has our interest, 00:33:26.566 --> 00:33:29.596 not because they're the opposite of the person who has gone before, 00:33:29.887 --> 00:33:34.650 not because you're bringing the dial down and, well, he was a nine, 00:33:34.650 --> 00:33:39.273 but he's depressed and old now, so he's a four. So this guy who's a five is clearly better. 00:33:39.780 --> 00:33:43.310 It's also ageist, if nothing else. At its very core, it's like, 00:33:43.310 --> 00:33:44.945 old people are crap at everything. 00:33:45.177 --> 00:33:50.240 Well, have you met old people these days? Or is it the drivers I encounter? 00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:53.900 Yeah, but Indiana Jones isn't a normal person. Very true. 00:33:54.640 --> 00:34:00.900 Luke Skywalker isn't a normal person. Oh, no, I agree. But I'm saying that there 00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:04.960 is definite reason why you want to. 00:34:05.600 --> 00:34:12.009 I can understand the impetus of I want to take the the Indiana Jones franchise 00:34:12.375 --> 00:34:15.690 and bring it to a new generation. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. 100%. 00:34:16.015 --> 00:34:22.220 I understand why they have been trying and failing to move it across the Star 00:34:22.220 --> 00:34:24.101 Wars generation and move it into the next generation. 00:34:26.908 --> 00:34:31.560 They have no interest in building the next. Like, if you look at, 00:34:32.348 --> 00:34:38.021 name a character have you watched enough of the Star Wars the Star Wars shows, 00:34:39.355 --> 00:34:46.096 I haven't seen the Acolyte. Okay. I haven't seen the pirate one with the bunch of kids and Jude Law. 00:34:46.445 --> 00:34:48.758 Okay. Whatever that's called. Skeleton Crew. Yeah. 00:34:50.060 -->

00:34:52.851 Did you see Obi-Wan? Saw Obi-Wan, yeah. Okay. 00:34:54.043 --> 00:34:57.364 Did you see Ahsoka? Yes. Okay. So? 00:34:57.996 --> 00:35:02.087 Saw Rebels when it was out. The Rebels? The animated. Oh, yeah, Rebels. Okay. 00:35:03.139 --> 00:35:09.356 Over the course, they have put out five, six, seven, eight different TV shows. Yeah. 00:35:09.842 --> 00:35:17.483 I can count one character Ahsoka no one character because Ahsoka existed beforehand 00:35:17.483 --> 00:35:22.423 yeah okay oh one new character one new character yeah that is the, 00:35:23.763 --> 00:35:26.944 Moses Ingram character from from Obi-Wan, 00:35:28.175 --> 00:35:32.743 her character the inquisitor the black actress okay if they had treated her 00:35:32.743 --> 00:35:39.854 about but she she's a character who survived to the end of that show she walks off Yeah. 00:35:41.359 --> 00:35:44.670 If they had treated her better, if they had given her a better show, 00:35:44.670 --> 00:35:46.363 if they had made the show about her. 00:35:48.682 --> 00:35:52.770 Then, and took her through the kind of whole, she goes to the dark side and 00:35:52.770 --> 00:35:58.230 comes out and now, maybe not fully into the light, but definitely still a conflicted character. Yeah. 00:35:58.770 --> 00:36:05.928 Okay. I could imagine her walking into a room, walking into the chamber of the Jedi, 00:36:06.515 --> 00:36:13.140 walking to a round table kind of place where Skywalker's there with his lightsaber 00:36:13.140 --> 00:36:15.470 in a little nice little slot in the round table. 00:36:15.958 --> 00:36:20.271 Ahsoka's to his left with her lightsaber, her pair of lightsabers in two little slots there. 00:36:20.538 --> 00:36:24.091 And, what was her name? Reva. 00:36:24.588 --> 00:36:28.152 Put her new lightsaber because you lost your in a slot. 00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:31.960 And then suddenly you have three characters going, this is the, 00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:35.093 we're going to establish a new council. Yeah. 00:36:36.841 --> 00:36:39.860 They should have been working towards that scene. Yeah. 00:36:40.404 --> 00:36:45.080 Everything they do whether it be Mandalorian whether it be Ahsoka whether it 00:36:45.080 --> 00:36:49.390 be Obi-Wan whether it be anything everything they do should have been working 00:36:49.390 --> 00:36:52.397 towards building and creating new characters, 00:36:53.260 --> 00:36:59.030 for that one scene to happen because from that one scene it explodes yeah you 00:36:59.030 --> 00:37:02.383 now have so what do you want to do imagine you have, 00:37:03.346 --> 00:37:08.510 say seven characters you have your you have your Dwayne you have your that could 00:37:08.510 --> 00:37:11.758 also be like, part of the focus of that new, 00:37:12.560 --> 00:37:17.870 whether it's movies or TV show, is the, you know, meeting and acquiring, 00:37:17.870 --> 00:37:24.006 recruiting, building the council, you know, maybe re-establishing. You do it subtly. 00:37:25.460 --> 00:37:32.670 You do it, rather than saying, this is our plan, you say, in your own studio, 00:37:32.670 --> 00:37:34.912 in the writer's room, go, we're doing this. 00:37:35.121 --> 00:37:38.840 Okay. Pitch us on putting people together. Now, Thank you. 00:37:40.571 --> 00:37:45.582 On any type of force user you want to bring them together to put into that room. 00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:51.791 I want a list, and I want a list of six other characters that can work with 00:37:52.151 --> 00:37:55.591 Skywalker of whatever type personality you want. 00:37:56.032 --> 00:37:59.571 The darker, the stranger, the sinister, 00:38:00.111 --> 00:38:04.921 as in sinister rather than darker, but any type, someone who has survived since 00:38:04.921 --> 00:38:09.981 the Empire, or someone who has just come along as the plucky new guy or the 00:38:09.981 --> 00:38:13.600 old wizard witch who has managed to survive this amount of time. 00:38:14.742 --> 00:38:18.391 The person who is actually Dooku's great, great, great grandson. 00:38:18.391 --> 00:38:21.791 And don't forget some, like, four-year-old, because that's... 00:38:21.891 --> 00:38:24.911 No, no, no, I'm only joking, but... 00:38:25.351 --> 00:38:30.361 That's my point, is that once you have this established, then where do you go? 00:38:30.773 --> 00:38:34.271 You have your four-year-olds in that you have announced new school. 00:38:34.731 --> 00:38:37.721 Who of those seven becomes the new, when was the new, the new, 00:38:37.721 --> 00:38:41.826 I see, prime minister, not prime minister, but principal out of school. Yeah. 00:38:42.180 --> 00:38:46.141 You have your Star Trek Academy. You do. You have your, you have your Jedi Academy. 00:38:46.141 --> 00:38:50.711 You have your fresh start and your, your, your initial reconstruction is what 00:38:50.711 --> 00:38:53.622 you're doing. I'm talking, no, I'm talking about continuing the construction. 00:38:54.138 --> 00:38:57.418 I'm talking about you build new characters. 00:38:57.674 --> 00:39:01.531 You have a character who arrives there, you know, the eighth character who's 00:39:01.531 --> 00:39:04.233 there who doesn't have a lightsaber. Why? They're not a Jedi. Yeah. 00:39:04.483 --> 00:39:08.146 Okay. They may be force sensitive they may not but they're still going, 00:39:08.848 --> 00:39:13.208 what are we going to do now yeah I think this is a fucking bad idea but but, 00:39:13.651 --> 00:39:18.151 it's it's essentially it's the it's the pilot it's the it's the the the, 00:39:18.831 --> 00:39:23.995 brash pilot make him make him her make whoever you want to make make them yeah 00:39:24.215 --> 00:39:25.655 does not it does not matter well, 00:39:26.531 --> 00:39:30.091 you know chuck in a former bounty hunter in there because everyone loves bounty hunters yeah. 00:39:31.389 --> 00:39:37.676 Sure, well, the reason why I'm limiting it is, again, I'm building from an Orpi background. Yeah. 00:39:37.903 --> 00:39:43.733 That you have your, no matter

what, set of, if you take any party, 00:39:43.733 --> 00:39:47.249 you're going to have a solid group of... Your wizard, your rogue, your paladin. 00:39:47.376 --> 00:39:49.788 Yeah, and then you're going to have a throw-in. 00:39:49.974 --> 00:39:53.642 You're going to have a person who doesn't really match with everyone else. 00:39:54.130 --> 00:39:57.944 That's often the most well-loved character, or if you look at, 00:39:58.530 --> 00:40:03.248 well-constructed and found friends, and family of other TV shows, 00:40:03.735 --> 00:40:06.803 you have Spike, you have Giles, you have the characters, and you have the kids 00:40:06.803 --> 00:40:10.003 being the centrals, and then you have Giles and you have Angel and you have, 00:40:10.003 --> 00:40:12.961 well, Angel kind of fits in with the kids, but you have Spike and you have Giles 00:40:13.211 --> 00:40:15.132 who don't really fit in, but they're functions of... 00:40:15.318 --> 00:40:19.333 Even in the Angel show where you had Lorne and you had... 00:40:20.193 --> 00:40:23.187 I'm starting to forget all the character names, but you had Cordelia, 00:40:23.628 --> 00:40:28.604 you had Angel, you had Lorne, you had the demon, you had Doyle, 00:40:28.796 --> 00:40:31.513 the half-demon, the Irish guy, Fred, yeah, So 00:40:31.863 --> 00:40:34.104 And then Wesley, not Wesley. Wesley, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Wesley. 00:40:34.601 --> 00:40:39.432 So yeah, you have, but you look at the group and they are mismatched. 00:40:39.879 --> 00:40:44.348 So you essentially, you have, they are linked by some facets, 00:40:44.860 --> 00:40:46.019 but the rest are mismatched. 00:40:46.019 --> 00:40:50.704 So you then have, from there, you go, okay, these are the core group and then, 00:40:51.539 --> 00:40:54.629 they all disappear off and they do all their TV shows. They do all their individual 00:40:54.629 --> 00:40:58.419 movies. And what's the big movie? They come back together again. 00:40:59.979 --> 00:41:04.749 You have them walking into a room. were walking the revengers you yes don't 00:41:04.749 --> 00:41:08.429 it's it's not a it's not a it's something to be laughed off you actually go 00:41:08.429 --> 00:41:14.019 along and you and you have the scene from from that right where you have when when all of them go, 00:41:14.799 --> 00:41:18.931 and they activate their lightsabers all these seven guys like guys girls whatever, 00:41:19.529 --> 00:41:22.579 adding all characters cracking open their lightsabers, 00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:27.739 when you see that the purple next the blue next to you know you see all the 00:41:27.739 --> 00:41:31.409 different colors yes and you go that one that one there see the blue one that's 00:41:31.409 --> 00:41:33.899 my one i like that one oh really i like the purple one the purple, 00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:38.259 but i i like the gold one too and you're talking about keraline crystals and 00:41:38.259 --> 00:41:43.079 you're talking about and you suddenly have the thing where this is a story, 00:41:44.319 --> 00:41:46.797 that you are it's not just the story you're it's you have your favorite yeah 00:41:47.116 --> 00:41:50.639 rather than the writer saying this is your favorite if you do not like this 00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:55.005 person you're a racist yeah if you do not like this person you're a sexist you 00:41:55.138 --> 00:41:57.054 have an establishment of these. 00:41:58.979 --> 00:42:02.061 Is that just kind of endemic of, 00:42:02.754 --> 00:42:07.344 like the society today is like that attitude of if you're not one, 00:42:07.824 --> 00:42:10.844 if you're, you're a one or a zero, if you're not one, you're zero. 00:42:10.844 --> 00:42:13.464 If you're not zero, you're one, you know? Oh yeah. It's like, 00:42:13.924 --> 00:42:16.914 you know, you have to like what we're telling you. Like if you don't, 00:42:16.914 --> 00:42:18.310 then you're all these bad things. 00:42:18.786 --> 00:42:22.614 You know, you, you only don't like them because, and you are the most extreme 00:42:22.614 --> 00:42:26.404 version of that. Like you don't like a female character. That's cause you're 00:42:26.404 --> 00:42:29.913 misogynistic and chauvinistic and you hate women. 00:42:30.112 --> 00:42:35.376 And you're like, where is this extremist mentality coming from? 00:42:35.656 --> 00:42:43.834 And on top of that, is that affecting everyone's writing in these TV shows and 00:42:43.834 --> 00:42:48.784 movies? Is it a case of, are they cowed by the labeling? 00:42:49.143 --> 00:42:55.804 Are they cowed by the fear of being, you know, if you don't put a female character 00:42:55.804 --> 00:42:59.084 in here, everyone will call you misogynistic and chauvinistic? 00:42:59.824 --> 00:43:05.534 Yes, that's why I think that some of these writers are better than they are, 00:43:05.534 --> 00:43:07.864 or better than their writing at the moment. 00:43:08.178 --> 00:43:19.355 That they are being forced to conform to a certain, it's almost like a neo-McCarthyism. 00:43:20.511 --> 00:43:24.514 They want to go on the blacklist. Yeah, because if you don't write this way, 00:43:24.514 --> 00:43:27.124 you're not getting, you know. 00:43:27.993 --> 00:43:31.234 And by the way, the blacklist was something it was actually called and not, 00:43:31.234 --> 00:43:33.784 I don't, you know, here I go. 00:43:34.104 --> 00:43:41.311 Yeah. And rightly so, it's a, how can I express this succinctly? Yeah. 00:43:42.714 --> 00:43:47.214 The writers who managed to get through it, the ones who managed to express things 00:43:47.214 --> 00:43:49.451 well, they're the rarity. 00:43:50.043 --> 00:43:55.414 That they managed to go, like, you can mention Nolan, you can mention different 00:43:55.414 --> 00:44:02.810 writers who have managed to weave their way through and deliver... Dodging the raindrops. 00:44:04.354 --> 00:44:11.537 So to speak. Delivering a story while also delivering what Hollywood appears to want. 00:44:12.673 --> 00:44:21.894 That it is a case

that they it's almost like you're dealing with an old. 00:44:26.054 --> 00:44:29.754 Myopic person in a wheelchair they can't see very well but I want you to do 00:44:29.754 --> 00:44:34.014 this and I want you to do that and you go yeah I've done this I've done this other oh that's grand, 00:44:34.594 --> 00:44:38.515 and they can't see past their own they can't see past beyond their own wishes, 00:44:39.084 --> 00:44:42.184 so you just spend time going yeah I'm going to spend the rest of my time doing 00:44:42.184 --> 00:44:45.501 everything I fucking want. I'm delivering for you. 00:44:46.830 --> 00:44:49.354 You want to make sure that we have representation. Absolutely, 00:44:49.354 --> 00:44:50.288 I want representation too. 00:44:51.492 --> 00:44:55.812 But I'm not going to make it my main deal. Like that historically, 00:44:56.452 --> 00:45:03.052 pre-social media, pre-even internet, people wrote what they wanted, it seemed. 00:45:03.372 --> 00:45:07.872 No, I would say that there's always been a There's a censor board. 00:45:08.352 --> 00:45:13.165 A directive of sorts, but I would say that... There is a comic book code, for example. 00:45:13.778 --> 00:45:18.200 Yes, but that was self-deployed, essentially. 00:45:18.982 --> 00:45:24.473 I would say that because we you know we can name several writers who've moved from, 00:45:25.146 --> 00:45:30.120 comic book into writing horror into writing thriller and writer sci-fi who have 00:45:30.347 --> 00:45:35.662 moved across the genres yeah who have have watched who have have written a vastly 00:45:35.662 --> 00:45:36.663 different types of things, 00:45:37.363 --> 00:45:40.777 and they have been able to do so because the, 00:45:41.552 --> 00:45:48.202 the market was was not one thing okay and that's why you have things like this 00:45:48.202 --> 00:45:52.109 this year especially with things like Backrooms with Obsession that. 00:45:53.217 --> 00:46:00.612 The reaction is so profound that they're going well we need to put India Navarro, 00:46:01.192 --> 00:46:07.145 into different things she's great and all and I wish her well and I think that her step into, 00:46:08.092 --> 00:46:12.723 Rogue's Shoes may be a mistake but because apparently she decided not to do 00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:20.182 Heat 2 with DiCaprio and Christian Bale and I'm thinking Heat 2 he too but with 00:46:20.182 --> 00:46:22.709 with bale and with dicaprio okay, 00:46:23.533 --> 00:46:30.660 any movie with with dicaprio and christian bale yeah will be far fucking better 00:46:30.904 --> 00:46:36.021 than anything marvel puts out it will be longer it'll be longer much more receipt 00:46:36.271 --> 00:46:37.361 that and a few things that, 00:46:38.332 --> 00:46:41.942 okay she went for the big paycheck fan let her have the big paycheck but i would 00:46:41.942 --> 00:46:47.052 have i would have kept my powder dry i went okay do a few because she's still 00:46:47.052 --> 00:46:51.158 going to get you know she sure would have

been paid a fuck ton for those two movies, 00:46:52.647 --> 00:46:58.202 So, you know, they learned the wrong mistake. We're getting a matchbox movie. Yeah. 00:46:59.995 --> 00:47:06.918 They're not learning from Barbie, which was, if you like it or not, a movie about feminism. 00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.645 Yeah. Whether or not you think it was a good movie, whether you think it was 00:47:10.645 --> 00:47:14.367 a satire, whatever you think about it, it was a successful movie. Mm-hmm. 00:47:15.006 --> 00:47:18.762 And instead of learning from it, going, let's get an auteur like Greta Gerwig, 00:47:19.175 --> 00:47:23.806 let's give her control, let's give her a fucking ton of money and let her run with it. 00:47:24.680 --> 00:47:28.821 Instead of doing that, they went along and made a matchbox movie. I see. 00:47:30.254 --> 00:47:36.373 It's not understanding what they do anymore and not suffering the consequences. 00:47:37.332 --> 00:47:41.005 Well, that's it, isn't it? The big budgets keep coming. It's not coming from 00:47:41.005 --> 00:47:44.800 Amazon. It's coming from Disney. If it's not coming from Wider Dam, it's Netflix. 00:47:46.375 --> 00:47:53.017 And they're ultimately terrible movies. Yeah. that the it's become a producer's 00:47:53.285 --> 00:47:59.294 field not a writer's field so I would tend to agree that that, 00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:04.685 perhaps in the in years gone by their the movies were better but I'd only say 00:48:04.685 --> 00:48:10.220 that there was more of them that like I couldn't list off 10 or 12 being movies 00:48:10.441 --> 00:48:13.395 yeah or what we consider being movies which were, 00:48:14.059 --> 00:48:18.593 wonderful that I would happily sit down and watch again I can't think of any 00:48:18.999 --> 00:48:24.567 Netflix movie that has come out which maybe have had three to four times the size of the budget, 00:48:25.466 --> 00:48:29.095 that would I'd still consider a B movie because of the quality of it that I'd 00:48:29.095 --> 00:48:34.209 ever want to watch again that I'd want to go out and find DVD the watchability 00:48:34.615 --> 00:48:40.047 factor is something alright to consider but like I couldn't think of, 00:48:41.255 --> 00:48:45.975 I'd be the same as that I can't think of a Netflix movie that I'd go just throw 00:48:45.975 --> 00:48:49.172 that on nothing to do throw that one on love watching it yeah. 00:48:51.180 --> 00:48:56.182 There's no name in my head for that movie. I just don't have one. 00:48:57.820 --> 00:49:01.510 We're recording this as about nine o'clock at night. I could go home now and 00:49:01.510 --> 00:49:06.072 I could brew some popcorn and put on a two-hour movie, watch it till midnight, 00:49:06.995 --> 00:49:10.734 and there'd be a list of movies that I could go through and go, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. 00:49:10.898 --> 00:49:15.079 And none of them, and all of them existed before COVID. 00:49:15.768 --> 00:49:21.280 Yeah. Probably all of them existed maybe before 2000. Well, they are. I don't know. 00:49:22.100 --> 00:49:26.390 There's been some good movies since then. So it's not saying that they're not created anymore. 00:49:27.330 --> 00:49:31.997 But they're outliers. Yes. And to wheel back to the initial idea is that. 00:49:34.140 --> 00:49:37.431 It's almost like, and this is why I'm saying the producer being the problem, 00:49:37.941 --> 00:49:44.359 it's that the producer will be involved in the pitch. Yeah. 00:49:45.120 --> 00:49:49.648 To get the monies. and once the pitch happens then that's it, 00:49:50.710 --> 00:49:56.262 don't stray exactly don't walk don't get a go away from it so it's a case of, 00:49:56.802 --> 00:50:02.040 we want to do this movie and to establish it, 00:50:02.762 --> 00:50:09.120 to create a to establish the characters we're going to assume that we're going 00:50:09.120 --> 00:50:10.840 to do the bare barest minimum, 00:50:11.564 --> 00:50:15.592 to establish the characters we're going to say oh you've seen this movie before with this person, 00:50:16.423 --> 00:50:20.311 if you look at all these Netflix movies they all have pretty big names attached 00:50:20.450 --> 00:50:23.069 or at least names that you people you recognize yeah yeah, 00:50:24.140 --> 00:50:29.335 decent enough actors but they're not given anything to do like there was a apparently 00:50:29.335 --> 00:50:32.699 there was a movie with Anthony Mackie which as a period piece. 00:50:33.785 --> 00:50:40.705 It just disappeared it cost 115 million or something and it was just gone in in in, 00:50:41.437 --> 00:50:45.065 like because I set my brain on that task to try and come up with a movie that 00:50:45.505 --> 00:50:50.441 I'd watch again from Netflix as we were talking I was listening to you but I was also, 00:50:51.224 --> 00:50:56.595 sub-function of brain but But I think, and I have watched it more than once, 00:50:56.595 --> 00:51:00.286 is The Extraction, which Chris Hemsworth. Chris Hemsworth. Yes. 00:51:01.185 --> 00:51:04.355 So there's one. Yeah, The Extraction and Extraction 2. Have you watched Extraction 00:51:04.355 --> 00:51:07.037 2? Yeah, I have. Which is basically a game. 00:51:07.525 --> 00:51:10.265 It's a computer game. A computer game. It's not as good as the first game. 00:51:10.265 --> 00:51:12.585 No, but the prison scene and. 00:51:15.045 --> 00:51:17.785 The train against the helicopter, they're just computer games. 00:51:17.785 --> 00:51:19.565 They're PS2 plots. Yeah. 00:51:20.505 --> 00:51:24.897 And for just bare action B-movie plots, sure. 00:51:27.336 --> 00:51:32.427 Edge of the seat stuff. I thought, yeah. It was grand. But again, name is character. 00:51:33.929 --> 00:51:41.905 Thank you. John, big arms, blonde hair? John, big arms, big muscles. So it is a soldier B. 00:51:42.885 --> 00:51:50.665 To wind us all together that you have a bunch of new things which want to be 00:51:50.665 --> 00:51:55.808 the old thing without putting any of the work in I want to shine

off, 00:51:56.278 --> 00:52:01.590 the old thing yeah without putting the work in to create the new thing, 00:52:02.147 --> 00:52:06.689 skip to the end writing yeah and indeed if you look at even something like, 00:52:08.483 --> 00:52:13.898 TNG. Yeah. The Next Generation. It took the death of Gene Roddenberry, 00:52:14.374 --> 00:52:17.450 arguably, for that to escape his orbit. 00:52:17.770 --> 00:52:21.810 Okay. If you look at the first, especially the first season, it was shit. 00:52:22.217 --> 00:52:25.288 It was trying to be TOS. Yeah, yeah. 00:52:25.538 --> 00:52:31.900 But you do get that vibe. But I always thought perhaps that was just the way 00:52:31.900 --> 00:52:33.620 of, see, it's not that different. 00:52:33.818 --> 00:52:40.724 It's don't you know as in we all know you love kirk and spock and mccoy and everybody else, 00:52:41.312 --> 00:52:45.800 here's something new don't hate it see it's kind of the same that's that's the 00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:49.540 vibe i thought that maybe that's what they were going for which is the which 00:52:49.540 --> 00:52:53.260 is exactly the same if you're talking about the. 00:52:54.260 --> 00:52:59.760 The deconstruction of of um harrison ford or sorry indiana jones because you're, 00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:05.013 they're saying the exact same thing with the Waller Bridger character saying see see, 00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:10.289 she's kind of the same kind of the same yeah or Rey see she's kind of the same, 00:53:10.980 --> 00:53:12.480 she does the same stuff but the 00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:16.529 difference in the next generation was they weren't looking back and going, 00:53:17.180 --> 00:53:23.510 Kirk was an idiot you know I remember a way Kirk you know made terrible mistakes 00:53:23.510 --> 00:53:26.802 at some battle when he was an admiral you know they didn't they didn't have to, 00:53:27.458 --> 00:53:31.600 put the thumb on the heads they didn't deconstruct yeah They reconstructed. 00:53:32.240 --> 00:53:38.800 They constructed anew. Yeah. But it took the great, I don't know, 00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:47.150 one of the, the galaxy camera, what they called it, for him to pass for season three, season four. 00:53:47.347 --> 00:53:51.280 So that's when the Borg hit. I think you had good episodes in that mess, 00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:55.403 in that questionable mess there. You had Measure of Man. 00:53:55.706 --> 00:53:57.740 You had some really fucking solid work. 00:53:58.623 --> 00:54:01.410 Snowgrass's script is just, Fucking fantastic. 00:54:02.853 --> 00:54:06.743 So, but you then had, I think you had forgotten plots as well. 00:54:06.743 --> 00:54:10.693 You had the creatures who sent a signal out that the things that were inside 00:54:10.693 --> 00:54:14.433 the people, they're all animals. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't remember that. 00:54:14.433 --> 00:54:15.526 But that was, that was season two. 00:54:16.420 --> 00:54:20.858 So that was a forgotten plot. They, they. Everyone was like,

that's over. 00:54:21.050 --> 00:54:24.203 But they, essentially, they came from the same location that the Borg came from. 00:54:24.203 --> 00:54:27.545 They only will come from. Yeah. So they, they changed things around. 00:54:28.993 --> 00:54:32.279 Uh, Brandon Braga and co made a better show. Yeah. Okay. 00:54:32.761 --> 00:54:37.057 But it was, they were allowed to construct the thing that was new. Yeah. 00:54:37.537 --> 00:54:40.913 Without the need to put down everything that came before it. 00:54:41.573 --> 00:54:46.694 With, to build on top of. Yeah. As in, to stand on the shoulders of giants. Yeah. 00:54:47.250 --> 00:54:50.923 Instead of replacing them. Instead of saying the giants were actually midgets 00:54:50.923 --> 00:54:53.381 and. Exactly so. Yeah, they, yeah. 00:54:54.409 --> 00:54:54.797 So 00:54:56.849 --> 00:55:02.679 Whenever I'm writing these days, like, say, take Quantumancy, for instance. 00:55:03.428 --> 00:55:07.989 Quantumancy starts off with a destruction, a point of destruction. Yeah. 00:55:08.169 --> 00:55:14.117 October 13th, 2003, technology, science ends. Magic comes back. 00:55:14.756 --> 00:55:20.289 It is now, and the first book jumps, depending on which timeline you're looking 00:55:20.289 --> 00:55:22.768 at, it takes from that point all the way up to 2018. 00:55:22.901 --> 00:55:30.208 So it jumps through 15 years yeah by the time we're into what book four we're at i think 2019 2020, 00:55:31.114 --> 00:55:36.859 so it slowed down the progress of time but it's 20 years on and and from there 00:55:36.859 --> 00:55:44.494 we are we went from villages who are scared of things outside their walls to statewide, 00:55:45.329 --> 00:55:49.469 kingdoms yeah it's an excellent period of time to do that though because 20 00:55:49.469 --> 00:55:54.009 years you still have people that remember the old world yep that know what, 00:55:54.749 --> 00:55:58.929 modernity was that they know who you know, 00:55:59.569 --> 00:56:05.249 famous people were and why and they knew how all this stuff happened and then 00:56:05.249 --> 00:56:10.289 it just went away and now they're adapting to live in this new reality yeah so, 00:56:11.249 --> 00:56:15.499 it's a great time period to do it of as opposed to like hundreds of years later 00:56:15.499 --> 00:56:19.999 which it wouldn't make any like yeah they wouldn't be irrelevant yeah actually 00:56:19.999 --> 00:56:21.749 the memory is very important. 00:56:22.789 --> 00:56:24.427 That all the characters. 00:56:27.242 --> 00:56:28.169 Even Dani, who is, 00:56:30.609 --> 00:56:38.582 in her early 20s now, or she started off in 2018, I think she was 21, 22. 00:56:38.930 --> 00:56:44.600 So she was a toddler, essentially, when the fall happens. 00:56:45.157 --> 00:56:47.969 That even she, thanks to her... 00:56:51.262 --> 00:56:56.502 Thanks to her abilities, she's seeing things that are beyond her lifespan. 00:56:56.502 --> 00:56:58.799 Yeah. And she can see the differences. 00:56:59.498 --> 00:57:07.380 And it is important to show those differences, because I'd almost say it's a trick. 00:57:08.462 --> 00:57:10.223 From my point of view, it's like saying that, 00:57:13.542 --> 00:57:21.942 having a dwarf with a New York accent, or having a, talking about getting bagels on Fifth Street, 00:57:24.129 --> 00:57:27.779 you have established the, you have not only. 00:57:31.447 --> 00:57:36.892 You have created in just those very, very few words an entire character. 00:57:37.422 --> 00:57:41.796 You don't have to go any deeper than that. It's like the reader understands 00:57:42.115 --> 00:57:47.682 that this person used to be in this situation, and now in this situation and their own, 00:57:48.382 --> 00:57:52.382 their own imagination are connecting the dots going well what could oh so many 00:57:52.382 --> 00:57:55.972 things and essentially you are and they are not, 00:57:57.383 --> 00:58:01.582 fixating them onto your story they're allowing going okay I want to see what 00:58:01.582 --> 00:58:03.102 happens but there's so many good things, 00:58:04.802 --> 00:58:12.726 it is a it's allowing a the reader to kind of enjoy the the spectacle of change, 00:58:13.591 --> 00:58:19.222 well we have deconstructed and we have reconstructed and i think there's uh 00:58:19.222 --> 00:58:22.983 not a hell of a lot more to say on the topic at the moment except, 00:58:23.878 --> 00:58:25.660 keep watching the sky.