บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Meet Ray Wade

had to do design documents and when people like would walk around and see their stuff, it was just like papers on a desk, , you know? So the, sadly enough, the Art Institute really never got it figured out because there were some shady things with the Art Institute and I think they've closed their doors now. I kind of had a similar, path I thought my entrance into the games industry would be like maybe 3D animation modeling. I like character modeling. I found out pretty quickly that the animation was not for me, just the tedious key framing and repetitive cycle, but yeah, I totally remember those days. So how did you get from the art side into more specifically like design? Well, you know, I'll tell you, it, it stems back to when I was a child. Like my jam when I was a kid was Sesame Street and the Muppets, and I fell in love Jim Henson and his puppets, and I was one of those kids that was just a little weird. Like if I have a, a recurring thing that goes through this podcast is I'm just a little different, you know, it a little awkward and weird, but it really has led me to amazing placesand so, I would take socks and I would design puppets and like draw them out on paper. And I was like, I'm gonna be a puppeteer and Jim Henson passed away and, broke my heart and I was like, you know, I think what I loved was the story, the narrative. And so I was like, well, I want to be a filmmaker and.then I kind of just saw so many movies that were amazing. You know, Francis Ford Coppola, Scorsese, Spielberg, Lucas, those are like my, my idols when I was growing up. And then I was like, I'm just never gonna be able to attain that, but I sure would love to do something like that. And, and so then, I got an Xbox and a a, a subscription came with it and I was, you know, thumbing through the magazine and I was reading articles and I, and I, it was just talking about game development and I was like, wait a second, this is interactive storytelling right here, like games is narrative. And I was like, that's it. I want to get into that.   And so I started to go to the Art Institute and. a funny quick story I was in my thirties and all the other students were pretty much, teenagers, like late teens. And so I was kind of the old guy on the block and my design teacher at the time said, Hey, there are three things that are never gonna happen in the video game industry. One of 'em is gonna be female gamers. The second one is gonna be educational games, and the third one is gonna be Christian religious games and boy was he wrong. And so, he had, he had this really neat, Exercise for us to where he said, I am going to put you all up against one another. You're gonna write a concept document for a game and then you're gonna pitch it to the class and whoever wins first place gets this free DVD of Das Boot and And so I pitched, a game called Penitent Scallywags, which was a Christian idea and I won, out of all the students. And I was like, that's right, your little punks Ha ha the old guy got it. And it gave me enough strength and inspiration to, get a business partner. And I decided that I wanted to create a Christian video game. And so the idea was I went to the school and I said, Hey, can I make a class so that people can enroll in my class and then they can get extra credit and that kind of thing and become interns. And so I wanted to make a game demo and so they said, sure. And so my partner and I, we got loan and like, got like 15 computers and put 'em all through my house in my garage, and every day for pretty much a, a quarter, the students would come over and model and animate and make music. And we made a demo and, it was so successful we were able to get like $250,000 investment money and I thought I was on my way.  Sadly I learned about overhead and business and apparently if you hire people, you pay them. And, we were hope, we, our goal was to like make a pitch deck and all this kind of stuff and shop it around Hollywood. we found out that nobody in the early two thousands wanted to make an 8 million Christian Unreal video gameand the funding ran out and I was just like, devastated, you know, because I was like, God, I thought, I thought you wanted me to make that kind of thing. But, but I, I still, you know, pushed on with school, graduated and then got a. immediately after that. Brock Henderson: So I wanna circle back. I have a quick question. Your professor, was he just baiting the class or did he really believe that video games were like that narrow? Ray Wade: Yes, I believe he felt that. His background was, he made a lot of analog board games. and he had a lot of great knowledge of game mechanics, but that was his belief, you know, back in the day. And, and so, you know, most of the stuff I was learning, I was like, okay, well maybe that's true, but later I was like, none of that stuff is true, you know? And, and I, I challenged it a bit.  Brock Henderson: So what did he say when you won, right? Isn't that the whole premise of your game? Was had some, religious, Ray Wade: Yeah. And, and that's another reason why I was like, wow. He said that wasn't gonna work, but apparently, you know, he really liked it and I felt very passionate about the idea. And maybe even someday, I still want to make that game. . And you know, maybe if we have another time or another day, we could talk about it, on, on that. But I think, you know, maybe he was challenging and questioning his own, design perspectives at that time. But, he taught me a great deal about scope and scale and perspective and, just the parameters of designing a game. And so, I felt like I was very much more a designer than I ever was an artist, because I was good at drawing stick figures and that kind of stuff. My art was not great, but I loved working with a team. I loved brainstorming. I loved coming up with creating stuff. Like one of the things that I absolutely adore, Designing games is like you create this wonderful thing, or you're part of

this team that's creating this beautiful, wonderful thing, and and. You know, as you sculpt it and you're creating it and you, and you're loving it and you are ready to show it to somebody, you know, you, you walk into a big building, you know, a big room with a bunch of people and, and there's your baby, your love, and you're like, oh, and you put it on the this pedestal and then you hand out bat. And then, okay, swing away, you know? And then they beat the daylights out of it and you're like, and then you take it and be like, I still love you. Let's go back and try to make it to what they want, you know, kinda thing. But, eventually it gets to somewhere to where you're like, wow, I had part of creating that, or I created that and, and that brings people joy or happiness and want, and they want to replay that. You know, that's, that was a addicting for me. I loved it. Brock Henderson: Yeah. It's magic, isn't it? Ray Wade: Yeah. It. Brock Henderson: So where, where was your faith during this time? Like what were you a, were you a Christian growing up or what was your story there? Ray Wade: Did you ever see the sound of music with the Trap family? That's the family I was in. My dad was a Lutheran pastor and my mom was the choir director and. They would enlist me. I'm, I was a young Jesus at some point, you know, in a skit, in a play, and, and they had me singing and, it really was kind of a show, and I'd have to go to both services and Sunday school and the whole nine yards. So basically Sunday was, the whole day was pretty much taken up and that's what I knew, you know? and so even though I was raised in that, I didn't necessarily have all the answers per se. And so I questioned a lot of my faith, but I did believe in God for sure. and then, when I got into the art institute and I came up with this great Christian video game kind of thing, I was like, all right, well, I think God wants me to do this and even through the making of the, the demo and the game, there were moments of faith and certain passages in the Bible to where I'd be like, well what does that mean? Like, is that something, you know, I have questions and I go to my dad and, it was a really wonderful time of discovery for me and of challenge, but I really felt like I am on the path that God wants me on exactly. Like I'm exactly where I need to be and then the funding ran out and I was like, so angry at God, if you've ever seen the movie Forrest Gump, where, Forrest and Lieutenant Dan are on the, the shrimp boat and the storm is, happening and lieutenants at the top of the mast and he's like shaking his fist at God. Like, you'll never sink this boat, you know, chewing me God. I felt like, that's where I was andafter the funding ran out and I was like,what was the whole purpose? I don't understand. You know, I pretty much abandoned God at that point. And I was like, you know what? Where were ya? Ray Wade: And so I went away from God for a, a very long time, but still believed in God, but didn't have a personal relationship with him. and I think people can understand how awkward and odd we feel to where it's like, God, you know, I want, where were you? Like I needed you . So there were, there was a dark period of time, you know, in my life where, I just kind of was like, I don't know if there's a destiny. I don't know if God is following my path or with me. A and and it was a, a dark time. Brock Henderson: Yeah. I'm kind of going through a valley season now as you, as you know. And, there are days where it's just, just really dry. Right. It's, it's, I don't know if I can pray. I don't know if, and when I do pray, it feels like it's the same thing over and over again then, It, it's, it's, it's hard, right? Like you feel like you have a, a vision or something that God gave you, and you're just trying to steward it and carry it, and it just, it just falls apart. What do you do when it falls apart? Ray Wade: Yeah. The journey for me is, It's, like a sine wave. It's like a peak in a valley. You know, there's gonna be stronger days and there's gonna be other days. But when I was going through those dark days, I had a lot of bad things that had kind of happened for me as well. And and I had started to lean on alcohol as a crutch and, it became a problem for me I started to isolate and push my friends and my family away and it kind of consumed me and I was in a very dark spot in my life. I was a functioning alcoholic and I was, struggling and I got to the point to where I was following somebody on TikTok and Facebook and a comedian, her name's Laura Cleary, and she was so funny, and she introduced her husband who had six years of sobriety and he told his story and it was crazy like, sometimes you hear these tales and you're like, that's unbelievable. That can't be. But you know, he like woke up one day and he had no idea what he, even what country he was in. He was badly beaten and bruised in a gutter and somebody just took him in and took two weeks to take care of him. But he found sobriety and was six years. And I was like, if he can do it, I can do it. And I. was like, it's time. And, and in AA they call it hitting my bottom. And when I finally went to a meeting, it was right at the beginning of the pandemic. So I had to do a Zoom call and they welcomed me with open arms and they, you know, pretty much took me in and said, you don't ever have to drink for the rest of your life. And they said, but we've got a couple rules. And the first rule was, welcome to God. Pretty much it was like, you need to have a higher power. And I was like, God, you brought me back in. Like, like, touche, God. you are clever and, I surrendered. I basically was like, all right, God,I surrender and I give my life to you.  And that turnaround for my life has every step forward in my, in my sobriety. I'm two and a half years sober now, and you. Every day is, A walk with God and a walk in faith and a miracle really. And I've, I literally have seen

miracles happen in the program, you know, because I go to meetings and we talk to one another and we talk about our faith and our higher power. And I have a sponsee that basically calls me every day and checks in with me. And, he just made a year sober. And so, there's a really great connection, you know, to God that happened for me to where, even in AA, we've got these dark times that we struggle with and we're kind of like, how are we getting through, you know? But, we're all, I think as human beings, very awkward. And we feel, you know, sad and depressed and a lot of emotions and where am I going? And, and how am I doing this? And the answer is with him. And, and the reminder is, is he's walking with us. And even though we've got those dark days, he's there. And we're here to remind one another. I feel like discipleship, fellowship is huge, especially in our game community. We need to support one another,and fill each other,with faith and remind one another and be like, you know, it is tough, but it's not always gonna be tough. And we're, we're gonna get through this and we can do this together kind of thing. Brock Henderson: Mm-hmm. . Now, you, you mentioned you were a functioning alcoholic, you stayed in games, right? You kept making games andyou've done stuff in aaa. Ray Wade: Yes. Yeah. I'm, I have been blessed to, make a lot of really cool games. I've, I've, I, I've worked, on a Disney, Pixar Cars race Rama game, a SpongeBob Square Pants game, with, Disney Interactive, did a little bit of a Club Penguin thing and, with Call of Duty and also a church in Northern California called Bethel University, or,Bethel Church,so I'm working right now also as a part-time coding mentor, and for backend framework C#, and web foundations. And so I, I'm really,just trying to like, keep up,on my knowledge of things because even though I'm never gonna be good at art, I love design and I, and I'm learning to love programming and I want to keep on making games. Brock Henderson: Yeah, tell me about that. You've done a lot of work in design and then I remember you told me that you went back to school to learn some programming. What wasthe motivation behind that? Ray Wade: The steam game that I was working on for like five years. I had a friend that was living in Washington near me and so we were like, Hey, we're not gonna, you know, pay get paid for this, but we'd love to make this indie game and then eventually we could put it on Steam. So that was the Pixel sand game. And you know, he was the programmer, I was the designer and his sister was the artist. And, we just did that, together and we created a good friendship, but at a certain point he was like, Hey, I'd love to try to teach you programming, and tried a little bit. And then he goes, well, you know, I don't really think that you can be a programmer.  It takes a special type of person to program and I think your strengths are in design. And I was like, okay. And then right just before we were going to submit our game and it was gonna go on to Steam, he sent me a text and was like, Hey, I've deleted all of your video game levels and I've decided that I want to go a more funnier type of route, so I'm gonna make some of my own levels and then submit it, but I'm going to keep you in the credits for game designer since you actually helped build the engine and, and that kind of thing. And I had to pray about it really hard because, you know, we were business partners on paper and I just said, All right.  After I prayed about it,I was like, I'm not gonna sue him. I'm not gonna pursue anything really good luck to him in that game. And I had to let it go, but the point that I got out of it was like, I couldn't do anything cuz I didn't know how to program like . Like I wouldn't have been able to take any of the, the open source code or anything like that and manipulate it. Ray Wade: But going back to school, I was like, I'd wanna learn how to program so I can be a better game developer and it would help me be a little bit more rounded if I knew like C sharp or c plus plus or some scripting. And so, so I went back to school and I loved it. Like I fell in love with programming, it's so neat and learning the languages.  And after a while I was like, you know, what? This is amazing and I talked to one of my teachers at school about, somebody told me that I could never program or shouldn't, and that teacher was like, no, no, no. That's absolutely incorrect information. Anybody can program as long as they are dedicated and, you know, we'll keep at it and work really hard. Ray Wade: You can learn. That language and I believe that. I believe that, you know, whatever you put your mind to and dedicates yourself to, you can do.  Yeah. I have a kind of a similar story where I was basically forced to learn how to program, because my friends in, in their computer science degrees and stuff didn't, I could never get 'em to make games, . So I just eventually became a point where I just had to learn to do it, and I'm so thankful I did.  So one of the big questions that I'm interested in is what does it mean to be a Christian in the game industry? I'd be curious to hear what it means to you and how your faith has, affected your journey in daily life as a game developer. Ray Wade: So there is Bethel Tech, that's where I am a, a coding mentor. There's probably about 15 of us and every Tuesday evening we all meet up and we call it, Mafia Mentors. And what we do is we meet up and we talk to one another, how, our progress is, and then we pray for one another, and for whatever's going on in our day. And so, today is Thursday, but I met with them on Tuesday and I said, Hey, you know, I was talking to my friend Brock, and he, you know, wants to do like kind of a podcast with and,I said, I'm gonna be talking to him,about my experience with the game industry and,Games and God,making games and also a Christian making secular games kind of thing. And, what they kind of talked about a

little bit was, yeah, isn't it a powerful position that we're in, that,we can be Christian, making Christian games, but most of us are Christians making secular games. And we can bring to that medium, honestly, it's not like I'm trying to sneak in, crosses here and there, but I do believe that my faith and my belief, and positivity should, and could hopefully have people want to engage me and help inthe journey. I think it's a very interesting world right now because we've got this cancel culture and I don't know if anybody's, like, if Christians. But I have in, in my, my time where it's kind of like, you know, if I talk about God or if I talk about my faith, I'm afraid like I might get fired, you know, for it. Ray Wade: Because I, I do believe that there are some games out there that would be like, we don't want any of that. Like, do not speak, but, but I do believe the way that I want to work and present myself is that I'm a, a good, honest Christian and if I have any kind of dialogues with anyone that, you know, leads to, Hey, how are you doing?  How can I help you? How's your life going? And you, if you want to talk. , you know, in a personal situation, great. If there's ethical issues that get brought up in work, I want to stand up and be like, I am not comfortable with that. I don't, I would not like to pursue that and, and try to be as communicative as possible. and so that, that's, it's, I think it's, I don't know. Do you feel like that's a struggle at all for you the. I've mostly worked with indie teams, so, not really. A lot of us have been, believers, the ones that haven't been believers, We've lived authentically around each other. so, and I'd always prayed like crazy for them and stuff. So, I think it's probably been a lot easier. I haven't,worked inbig companies. So if I could turn the conversation and flip it to you, I think games for me is, is my mission field and, it's what I wanna spend the rest of my life on, and there's a whole bunch that can continue to be mined. one thing that. As I've thought about it and been writing about it, is just this idea of, of love and developing games through the lens of love. The Bible talks about how as Christians we're supposed to be marked by our love, and that's what we see with God. So if we frame everything in that, in that lens of love of, of loving your neighbor as yourself, you have all these different focal lengths where you're loving the player and the product that we're designing. Brock Henderson: We're loving the people in the industry, we're loving our team. you know, and those I think continue to apply down to a fine grain detail, such as the way we write code. If I write code that tells the truth and is easy for my teammates to understand if they ever need to modify it that's a way to love them. So that's kind of what I've been thinking about lately. Ray Wade: Yeah. Yeah. I will tell you, I have had some experience working with teams that will actually take a little bit of, time out of their day or out of their week pray and sing and just kind of,talk about God and I am in love with that. I absolutely wish that I could do that,from here on out, until my retirement happens.  Finding like-minded people that want to celebrate andlove God and pray together and break, go team, you know, and then get back to it and work in that environment is ideal for me. Brock Henderson: Ray, thank you so much. Me today. Is there anything you wanna plug before we go? You wanna talk about your Pixel Light game or anything, what you're doing now? Ray Wade: Well, you know, It's pretty amazing. God is good and I feel like 2022 was a rough patch, for a lot of us. And, I wouldn't say that we're out of the woods, but I really do feel like 2023 is going to yield some bountiful times and events for us. And, you know, pixel light games. We're, we're just finishing polishing a demo that we're gonna be shopping around and pitching. And if we can do that, then I'm hoping that we'll be able to make our game and then it would just be go time and we'd probably spend a, you know, like two years making that game and, and having a team and, and, and having our own company is actually pretty amazing. So, I don't know if it's gonna happen or not but there are things that are alreadyin the process and rolling for us that, and we're talking with peopleand it's exciting times. If I had to say anything at the end of this podcast, it would be pursue your dreams and if you've pursued them for a long time and you've been discouraged, well, it's okay. Take a little rest and then get back into it and hit the ground running because God is there and he is with us and he wants to us to succeed. So keep on trying. Brock Henderson: Amen. Thank you, Ray. Ray Wade: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it, Brock. Hey, this is Brock. Thank you for listening to the first episode of the Faith Forms podcast. If you want more content like this first episode, I need your help. We don't have any sponsors and we don't run any ads. So my only ask is that you would subscribe to the Faith Forms podcast and take a second to rate us. It would mean the world to me.   Thank you and God bless.