บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Seattle makes a big splash via trade; will SF follow suit? Plus Mike Pereira on awful NFL officiating

get me wrong, but I think what happens with the NBA, and maybe they learned a lesson here, the guy's 23. I get it. And you want an 18-year-old, and you want to get him in early, and I understand all those kind of things. But this kid is good. Now they're going to have to adjust to him. It's kind of like Major League Baseball. Okay, you came out of the gate really, really fast, and you're hitting. 00:05:32 Speaker 7: 500. 00:05:32 Speaker 1: Okay, can you hit this pitch? Can you hit this pitch? Can you hit this pitch? If he can do all those things, but first impressions, he should have been taken in the top two or three. I mean, this kid is special. Off the court, on the court, he's a face of a franchise type. You can just tell he's got that kind of a personality. He's not going to be Steph Curry. He's going to rub some people the wrong way, but this kid is special. We can say that so far. I think that's fair enough. All right, number two. I think I changed this one out. Tim, this is Lynch, right? This is Lynch at number two? Yes, we changed this out at the last minute. If you haven't heard the news, it's not great. Seattle, according to Adam Schefter, has acquired Colts all-pro guard Quentin Nelson, and their offensive line at times has looked terrible, especially at the one guard position. They took Graze Abel in the first round last year, but they've struggled with Anthony Bradford at the other guard spot. Other than that, they're pretty solid. Abel Lucas at right tackle, Cross at left tackle. Pretty good offensive line outside of one guard position. Well, they took care of that. Now, Quentin Nelson is in the last year of his deal. He's 30 years old, but for the rest of this season, he's pretty solid, and they've struggled with run game, and that's one way to fix it. Quentin Nelson going to The Seahawks, and that was a player that I think the 49ers could have used, although maybe wide receiver defensive line is probably more important. But here's John Lynch before this trade went down this morning on his offensive line. 00:06:55 Speaker 7: For the most part, they've been really good. You know, we talked about that. You know you're not going to go throughout an entire season without getting sacked. you know, but we love the way our offensive line has been playing collectively. I think it's been one of the strong points of this season. We just have to make sure that we keep it that way. And, you know, people understand that the way to win in this league is to be really good on the defensive front, you know, have the quarterbacks and then have the guys to knock them down. And so, you know, we're going to play a bunch of teams that have those qualities and are really good and You know, there's other people on our schedule. Minnesota's on our schedule later in the year. Dallas, they each employ. Dallas, you know, has Christian Parker, kind of the Fangio tree. You know, Brian Flores doing the things he's doing, which are a lot of pressure packages. So there's a lot of challenges in the NFL. But, you know, I think at large we've been really pleased with the play of our offensive line, and we've got to make sure that we make it even better as we come back from the bye. 00:08:03 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:08:03 Speaker 1: And again, that was before the Quinton Nelson trade to Seattle. I'll give you some. Today is a is a is a upon further review day. And the offensive line, specifically one player on the offensive line, has struggled the last couple of weeks. And it would have been nice to get to Quinton Nelson. But in terms of the hierarchy of what they need, you know, kind of the pecking order of what they need, I should say. Defensive line wide receiver. I would have liked Quentin Nelson. I don't like that he went to Seattle, but I will say this, that the defensive line and receiver positions, I think, are a bigger deal. So we'll go upon further review and give you that. But my question to you is very simple. What should John Lynch do to counter it? Does he need to counter it? 415-808-KMBR, 415-808-5627. Would you like the reaction of the guys here in the studio? Because I was here for it, and it went something like this. 00:08:51 Speaker 2: What? 00:08:53 Speaker 5: No, God, please. 00:08:54 Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. 00:08:58 Speaker 1: It's because it's that team. You know, it's that team. Exactly. Could have gone anywhere. I mean, the Rams would have sucked too, but it's Seattle and he's a mauler. And, you know, here's where John's right. And the Niners get back to this. The Rams did this to kind of topple the division for a little bit. It's about the offensive and defensive line. We all know it. And the Niners defensive line, when it's, when it's rocking and rolling, they're winning football games and Quinton Nelson would have been really good. Cause like I said, somebody's struggling on the offensive line right now, but I get it. But my question is counter. How should he counter? Does he need to counter? Do they do that kind of stuff? All right. I have an apology to make. I cannot. Cause I, if you listen to the show with any regularity, I do, I do love our history. I do love sports history. And this is not so much sports history as much as it is. It is just fun. And I totally whiffed on this yesterday. So I apologize to you, the sweet, clean listener. But I make it up to you today. His first game as 49ers head coach. 00:09:59 Speaker 5: Yeah, that was. 00:10:00 Speaker 1: One Mike Singletary. And so Mike Singletary on October 26th, 2008. So what do we 18 years on that? Today's the 27th after the 49ers lost to yes, Seattle 34 to 13. His first game is 49ers interim coach after replacing Mike Nolan and And here was Mike Singletary 18 years ago. I'm sorry to say yesterday, but I missed it because I'm an idiot. And here's what he did after the game. 00:10:29 Speaker 8: Vernon, it was something that I told everybody at the very beginning of the week. I will not tolerate players that think it's

about them when it's about the team. And we cannot make decisions that cost the teams. and then come off the sideline and it's nonchalant. 00:10:54 Speaker 5: No, you know what? 00:10:56 Speaker 8: This is how I believe, okay? I'm from the old school, I believe this. I would rather play with 10 people and just get penalized all the way until we gotta do something else, rather than play with 11 when I know that right now that person is not sold out to be a part of this team. It is more about them than it is about the team. I cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. 00:11:21 Speaker 5: Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win. Go ahead. 00:11:31 Speaker 1: You know what's great about rants like that? First of all, we just don't get enough of them. Everybody's PC. Nobody wants to end up as a meme. Nobody wants to end up. on social media. Nobody wants to be trending. Nobody wants any of that stuff anymore. So coaches are coached themselves at an incredibly high level by the PR department. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Players are as well. That's why when Yaxel came out after his first game and went after Luca, people are like, Oh my God. Like it just, no one wants to be the story. No one wants to be the, you know, the new cycle moves fast, but nobody wants to do that. So coaches don't do that anymore. Managers don't kick dirt. Coaches don't freak out. I mean, they do sometimes, but not to that level anymore. And it's, it's sad. So then we have to go back, we have to play stuff like that. But you know when you're sitting there, because I have sat through a couple of those, you know when you're sitting in one of those moments and you're like, my God, this is going to last forever. Can't do it. That thing's 18 years old yesterday, and it's as good as it was the day that he did it. Just amazing. That whole thing was just amazing. Can't do it. One other quick note that you need to know today, just crazy. The Valks are a game away from winning a WNBA championship, so this is the deal. I don't know what you have to do work-wise, but, you know, like when March Madness comes, you figure out a way, right, on Thursdays. So think of it as March Madness. Tomorrow is Thursday, October– or excuse me, not tomorrow, two days from now, 48 hours from now, Thursday, October 28th. Tip-off for what could be a championship-winning game, 9.30 a.m. Pacific in Atlanta against the Dream. USA and Peacock because there is an arena problem and they were going to have to play in front of about what? 00:13:17 Speaker 2: 3,500. 00:13:18 Speaker 1: So the that's the gateway center seats about 3,500, but they are going to play with the Hawks playing Cleveland Thursday night scheduled for five o'clock local time. The NBA would not move that. So they moved that up to a nine 30 start 1230 Eastern so that they can get fans in the place. 00:13:40 Speaker 5: Can't do it. 00:13:42 Speaker 1: Can you imagine that if they packed them into a 3,500-seat arena for the championship, and now they've got to play at 9.30 in the morning so they can play at State Farm Arena? 00:13:54 Speaker 2: Oh, man. 00:13:56 Speaker 5: Crazy. 00:13:57 Speaker 1: Atlanta sold more than 10,000 tickets in the first 90 minutes, by the way, but obviously for some fans it's difficult. You can't just call in sick because it's not most people. A lot of people would, though. They used to do that. They used to have World Series games during the day, but they don't anymore. But anyway, there you go. That's crazy. 00:14:13 Speaker 5: All right. 00:14:14 Speaker 1: So the Dream Gophers, excuse me, the Valks go for a championship in 48 hours. We missed. We want winners. I apologize for that. Yaxel is a problem with the rest of the NBA. Can he, is he good enough to save Steph? That is the question that we are all asking today. 49ers, John Lynch, he is now on the clock because the Seahawks lost. got Quentin Nelson, and somehow we will celebrate National American Beer Day, which celebrates craft breweries, over 9,700 craft breweries in the country. And Tim's already started. You might want to start right now as well. All right, a lot of great stuff on the text line. I'll get to some of these because we had a smorgasbord of things to discuss there. Lots of different things on the table today. Hit us up at 415-808-KNBR. Your interaction always makes the show go better. 408, or excuse me, 808-KMB, our 415-888-5627. Upon further review coming up next, and then officials have been under the gun a lot this year in the NFL, Mikey Rulebooks joins us. The great Mike Pereira is going to join us to explain things at 1050, only here on the Esports Leader. 00:15:30 Speaker 2: Fair and Biased comes to you live from the KNBR Casino Matrix Jackpot Studios. Casino Matrix. Progressive jackpots are here. Where are you? Just drop in. 1-800-GAMBLER. 00:15:44 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for hanging out with us on a Tuesday edition of the program. Fair and Biased with your friend John Lund and our great producer Tim Webb. Thanks so much for hanging out with us. 00:15:54 Speaker 6: Hi. 00:15:54 Speaker 1: Hi. By the way, here's what we're going to do because I yapped too much. There was a lot going on in that first segment. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to do the poll question here. We're going to do a pond for the review coming up next. The numbers today are outstanding. You're going to press your friends all day long, and they're going to be like, where do you get that? And you don't even have to give me credit. I don't even care. But it's really good. But it takes a little bit of time. So because I yapped too much, we're going to do a short here. We're going to get you the poll question. It has to do with Yaxel. And then we've got a pond for the review. Then we will have Mike Purr on to talk officiating. So we will have a great time with this. It's got to be about Yaxl, right? It's got to be about Yaxl. Let's do it.

It is time to unveil, unleash the poll. Grab this poll. 00:16:39 Speaker 2: Time for the daily poll. 00:16:41 Speaker 1: It's my poll. 00:16:42 Speaker 2: This is fair and biased on the sports leader. 00:16:48 Speaker 9: Dude, grab my poll. 00:16:51 Speaker 1: I need to grow up someday. I still laugh at those drops and we play them every single day. The Gary drop is outstanding. All right, I will ask the question. Tim will give you the answers. You can vote on YouTube or you can hit us up. Text line, call in line, whatever is your flavor in favor. 415-808-KMBR, 415-888-5627. The question is, is Yaxel Lindenborg the missing piece Steph Curry has been waiting for? Is Yaxel the missing piece? Steph Curry has been waiting for. The answers are? Your choices are Yaxlemania. He is the real deal. 00:17:26 Speaker 9: Your second choice is he's a new splash bro, but Golden State needs a little more. Your third choice is pump the brakes. Let's all just slow down a little bit. And your fourth choice is call 911. This team needs a ton. 00:17:37 Speaker 1: All right, so there you go. Either you are just completely convinced we realize that it's only four games. But you know what? I don't like when people, as a fan, I don't like when people go, settle down, settle down. If he's no good, why do I have to settle down? 00:17:50 Speaker 5: Like, why? 00:17:51 Speaker 1: Because I'll get over my skis on something. Maybe the team does. Maybe Steve Kerr does. Maybe I have to coach him a certain way. But as a fan, you know. What was it who Joe Buck, not Joe Buck, Jack Buck said it after the home run. I think it was David Freeze. Go crazy, folks. Go crazy. Like, go crazy. 00:18:06 Speaker 8: Go crazy. 00:18:07 Speaker 1: Guy's awesome you know and it's not just like he's like a kawaii leonard type where you take kawaii leonard a second but what i mean is not only is he so far a great player but he's a great personality he's he's a number one on the team and i mean that in terms of he can lead a team he can be the face of a team everybody wants face of team money not everybody wants face of team responsibility and this guy looks like face of team and face of team responsibility like he's one of those guys You know, like if I'm Draymond Green, I might start asking him questions. Like Draymond's like, hey, you know, you do this, do this. Yaxel might want to go, hey, Draymond, do this, do this. I'm getting ahead of myself. But A is Yaxel Mania. B is Splash Brother for another mother. But they need more. Pump the brakes. He's good, not Messiah. Call 911. The team still needs more. 00:18:53 Speaker 3: All right. 00:18:54 Speaker 1: Give us your thoughts on that. Hit us up on YouTube or 415-808-CAN-BR. 415-808-5622. 00:19:02 Speaker 5: Seven. 00:19:03 Speaker 2: All right. 00:19:04 Speaker 1: A deep dive, but not too deep. I learned my lesson a couple of weeks ago. I went way too deep and I even felt it when I did it. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to give you a

pun for the review. We do that after every 49ers game, some things we may have missed, some interesting numbers and some things to look ahead. We'll do that. And then Mike prayer joins us all this officiating talk in the quarterbacks and all the different things going on. Is it going too far? Even, uh, Mike Florio pro football talk said that, uh, The officiating in the NFL. Let me get the exact term that he said. What was the exact got to get this exact term that he said so I could give this to Mike prayer at 50 minutes past the hour. Mike's going to go. Let's see. He says NFL officiating needs to be completely. reimagined. So we'll talk to Mike about that at about 1050. In the meantime, upon further review, we do it next only here on the sports leader. 00:20:09 Speaker 2: Stare into John Lund's eyes if you dare. Watch the show on thesportsleader.com. Now back to Fair and Biased. 00:20:29 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us. It is a Tuesday edition of the program, Fair and Biased. We are here 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. for your pleasure in about... Let me double check this. I got to be on time for Mikey Rulebooks. Oh, we got plenty of time here. Plenty of time. Boy, this is what it's like being on time, Tim. This is awesome. I wouldn't know, John. I looked up and I'm like, usually I'm breaking at this time. This is wonderful. We got plenty of time. All right. So here's what we do every Tuesday on the show. We yip-yap all day on Monday and we, oh my God, this and oh my God, that. And they got their first loss and they turned it over four times and this and this and this. And so I didn't sense anybody panicking. In fact, let me go back real quick. When we did the poll yesterday, it was on the 49ers. So, of course, we did a Yaxel today. And we're asking a question about Yaxel. Is he the messiah? But we asked a question yesterday of how you felt after the loss. And it was 49ers are 6-1 heading into the bye after Sunday's NFC West results. How are you feeling? Ain't no panic. 6-1. Enjoy the bye. Wake up. 00:21:31 Speaker 2: Call Atlanta. 00:21:32 Speaker 1: Expose some serious flaws. Looking over my shoulder, Rams and Seahawks are coming or Fool's Gold. And I believe by a large margin, it was no panic, correct? Yeah, it was over 50%. Yeah, no panic. And so I'm not trying to make anyone panic here. What we do is we just try to give you a little bit deeper dive into things without being big dorks. So let's hit it. It is time for a pun further review. So we did mention this to you, but I'm going to dive a little deeper on this. So Michael Penix pressured on only three of 34 dropbacks. or nine percent 49ers didn't have any sacks their previous low here's where I think the number is impressive and you can and you can tell your friends they're they're low yesterday or Sunday had three pressures 14 was their previous low so Quentin Nelson goes to the Seahawks oh my god what do you do well this doesn't have anything to do with Quentin Nelson I still think they need to go and get some defensive alignment especially ones who can get after the quarterback osa keon white james thompson jr had one pressure piece uh atlanta used play action on 25 of his 35 dropbacks so yeah maybe that slows you down for a millisecond and they and that's the whole point of it but still what it also does too is it slows him down for an extra second so you should be getting some more uh pressure on the quarterback so is that just one game or is that the season because i'm going to tie something together here so that's number one here's number two secondary is not good enough if they don't get any pass rush you know that but let me give you some things and this is a little bit alarming for the secondary and I'm not necessarily saying they should go out and get secondary help because you tie the rush together with the secondary right but Dre Greenlaw allowed eight completions on nine targets and 70 receiving yards 68 of those by the way came after the catch Renardo Green has been really good up until the last couple of weeks he allowed three completions on three targets for 41 yards and a touchdown I'll get back to him in a second Jack Jones, we talked about him yesterday. He also had a penalty, a holding penalty. He allowed four catches on five targets for 35 yards. And Demo allowed just one catch on two targets for seven yards. But Demo against Washington, six targets, five receptions allowed. And Renato Green against Washington was four targets, three allowed for 68 yards. So that's two subpar weeks for Renato Green. Demo Lerner was fine against Atlanta, struggled against Washington. You don't normally see Dre Greenlaw in pass defense like that. So the point is, if you're not going to get a pass rush, you're going to struggle in the secondary. So over the last two weeks, Lenore, eight targets, six catches allowed. Green, seven targets, six catches allowed. Combine the two corners for the 49ers and not the, of course, we're not talking slot, just on the outside. 15 targets, 12 completions. That's an 80% completion rate. So. 00:24:23 Speaker 1: Just food for thought if you're not going to get to the quarterback it's really going to put a lot of pressure on your defensive backs and while those guys were good the first couple of weeks the first few weeks a lot gets tied into the pass rush and they're they're going to need to get better there I don't think it's the corners I still believe in green I still believe in Lenore and of course you know stout in the slot is very very good but they've got to get some pressure on guys does that mean that they're going to bring in somebody via the trade because we're debating it back and forth receiver defensive line receiver defensive line Did I mention that the Seahawks got Quentin Nelson? Speaking of the offensive line, and this is why it kind of hurts, and I don't know if the 49ers were in on Quentin Nelson, who went to Seattle for a three and a five. Remember, the 49ers for the first few

weeks didn't give up a sack, but now against Atlanta, 10 pressures. Left guard Connor Colby, I told you, with Nelson going there, that would have been a really nice place to put Quentin Nelson. Connor Colby, five pressures, including a sack against Atlanta. Dominic Pooney gave up two pressures. That's not horrible. Williams, Brendel, and McKivitt's one pressure. So those guys are fine. Left guard, Connor Colby, the last couple of weeks has not been very good. Again, five pressures and a sack against Atlanta. That's not good. And Purdy only averaged 2.75 seconds to throw his second fastest average of the season. By the way, Colby finished with, if you believe in pro football focuses and a lot of people don't, a 45.4 PFF blocking grade. To put that into perspective, go back to school. If you get a 45 in a test, you fail. Now, look, I never got a 45. I mean, I was in the 80s and 90 percentile, but 45 is not good. I've been told that. So that's not good. So they could have used a left guard like Quinton Nelson, but he's going to Seattle. Turnovers, we talked about this to a certain extent, but I'm going to give you a little bit more on this. This is something you can impress your friends with. They were down four against Atlanta, minus four against Atlanta. In the Kyle Shanahan era, 2017 to 2026, regular season and playoffs, if they have zero or one turnover, the 49ers win 80% of the time. Zero to one turnovers, 80% win rate. If Kyle Shanahan in his 49ers career has two turnovers, 18 and 51, or a 26% win rate. If he has four turnovers like he had against Atlanta, and he didn't have them, the team did. He's 1-11 or an 8% win rate. Four turnovers, 8% win rate for Kyle Shanahan. They had four against Atlanta. Did not force any. Two interceptions, two lost fumbles. Five, by the way, three fumbles. They could have had five, but they got that one back. Three turnovers inside the Atlanta 30-yard line. Think about that. Three 49ers turnovers inside the Atlanta 30-yard line. And as I said, 1-11. To put that in perspective, NFL history win rate when you have– Four or more turnovers from 2000 to 2026. That's a pretty good sample size, 26 years. You have a 12% win rate. So Kyle's at 8%. So four more turnovers. You might as well just turn it off. The 49ers lost 17.8 expected points on turnover plays alone. So they basically handed the game to Atlanta. And then a few other stats that we need before we get– how are we doing on time? Oh, yeah, we're fine. Before we get Mike Pereira in here, 49ers, of course, seven penalties for 55 yards. And on the surface, that doesn't look terrible, right? Four Atlanta first downs became, or because of 49ers penalties, Falcons converted just four of 12 third downs. But again, the 49ers handed them four. Atlanta's first field goal, that offsides on Osa. That was a direct result, a holding penalty, a race to 10-yard McCaffrey run. Brandon Cooks, a false start on third and four with the 49ers trailing 26-20. And, of course, Purdy threw an interception on the next play. So you look at penalties and you say seven for 55 yards. Not horrible, right? Eh, about average. But what happened with those penalties? They were ginormous. So there you go. Turnovers, penalties. Offensive line struggling to an extent, specifically one position, Connor Colby at left guard, which happened to be the position that Quentin Nelson plays, but he just got traded to Seattle. Secondary is struggling, struggling because of the pass rush. And I think that's where they got to go. I know a lot of people want to go to the wide receiver position, but again, Pennix pressured on three of 34 dropbacks. That's only 9%. No sacks. And their previous low on pressures was 14. So there you go. That is upon us. further review what do you think tim too deep too statty too dorky not at all i want to impress my friends i you tell me that every week i'm gonna impress my friends because i've picked up some info Yeah, I think that's good. I mean, look, all that does is it tells you a story. You know, they got to get better. Obviously, they got to pressure more. They can trade for that. Along the offensive line, man, I don't know if, you know, John Lynch, he's not going to say if he was involved in the conversations. He might. They had him on this morning. It's too bad. We'd love to have talked to him tomorrow after this, but that's two games in a row where Connor Colby has kind of struggled. I mean, five pressures and giving up a sack. You can call that struggling, especially with a 45 rating from PFF, if you believe in that kind of stuff. And as I said, the rush and the defensive backs go together. The DBs are struggling just a little bit because of a lack of rush. Gave you turnovers. You could probably figure out those numbers, but that is pretty amazing. Kyle, two plus turnovers, 18 and 51, 26% run rate. Four or more, he's won an 11. That's an 8% win rate. And from 20 to 26 in the NFL, you only win 12% of the time if you commit four or more turnovers. Struggling. 00:30:05 Speaker 2: Struggling. 00:30:06 Speaker 1: So there you go. Those are some impressive numbers. Just let us know. 00:30:11 Speaker 5: All right. 00:30:11 Speaker 1: Quick stuff on the chat line because I know that I said, hey, man, hit us up. 415-808-KMBR. 808 says, not Messiah talking about Yaxel. Not Messiah, but good. Kevin says, Yaxel fills the Durant role with size. I'm not quite ready to call him Durant, but you're on the right track. Plus, he's bigger and stronger. I'm not saying he's better. I'm not saying that at all. But defensively, it took Durant a minute to become a good defender. Yaxel's already a good defender. How about the play last night where he runs down the layup, does a LeBron on... And I shouldn't bring that up. But he did block. He blocked the layup on one end, then ran to the other end and got the basket. I mean, that was probably the most impressive play of the night. 00:30:54 Speaker 5: Very, very nice. Let's see. 00:30:57

Speaker 1: Our pass rushing in Seattle just got tougher from the 9-2-5. Absolutely. 9-1-6 says, I don't think you do a trade to counter or anything. You do a trade to strengthen an area of need. Offensive line isn't the main issue. They get another defensive line player and or receiver. That's more important. I agree with you 100%, 9-1-6. 100%. I know that I'm phrasing it that way. Hey, he's got a counter. He doesn't have to counter Quentin Nelson. I think they were already looking at defensive line, defensive tackle, edge, maybe wide receiver. By the way, we'll do this a little bit later when we do random sound at about 1115 after we talk to Mike Pereira. Or excuse me, we'll do that about 1130. Everybody's talking about Garrett Wilson and there's one uh incident in particular and we'll play that for you and I'll give you my opinion on all that kind of stuff I I don't think you go for a high-end receiver and I'll tell you why because of what it's going to cost you but I think these guys are going to come back be able to stay healthy it's not because the Quentin Nelson move today by Seattle if you just missed it a third in a three and a five which is what the 49ers gave up to get Trent Williams he's 30 years old he's still really good I would imagine Seattle will try to re-sign him because they've had a major problem at one of the guard slots. Anthony Bradford, 75 for Seattle. If you watch Seattle on a regular basis, he's inconsistent. He has plays where he looks good, and he has plays where he looks horrible. So now with Quentin Nelson, because their run game has struggled. It didn't against the Chiefs, but we saw it against the 49ers. They've struggled most of the season with the run game after they let Ken Walker go. So Quentin Nelson is a big piece in that. 00:32:32 Speaker 5: All right. 00:32:32 Speaker 1: Let's talk to Mike Pereira more than ever. I mean, we're always talking about officials and always blaming the zebras and all that kind of stuff, but I don't think at this level, I think it's the highest level we've seen in a number of years where the refs have gotten, uh, this much blowback. So let's ask Mike Pereira about it. Also, we step on the, on a regular basis, Greg and I would have them on every week. And we talk about the things that are being emphasized right now. And I think we can guess those things because I'm going to ask Mike about it. And then, uh, Mike Gloria went off on a thing that said that, uh, NFL officing has to be, quote-unquote, reimagined. So we're going to ask Mike Pereira what exactly that means. We'll do it next, only here on the Esports Leader. 00:33:17 Speaker 2: Fair and biased comes to you live from the KNBR casino matrix jackpot studios casino matrix progressive jackpots are here where are you just drop in 1-800-GAMBLER. 00:33:37 Speaker 1: He's the best guest in the history of the show He is Mike Pereira. He is the former VP of officiating in the National Football League, and everybody loves him. Love to

tweet at him, talk at him. I don't think Mike responds anymore, though. He's been sure. It's Mike Pereira, joining us courtesy of the UBGSI. How are you? 00:33:58 Speaker 5: I'm fine. Can I, like, though, you're fair and biased. Could I be, like, fair and unbiased? Do you mind if I take that moniker? 00:34:06 Speaker 2: Sure. 00:34:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're unbiased. I don't think you ever, like, go on the show and go, God, I really hope this goes against the Cowboys. I mean, you don't do that. 00:34:13 Speaker 5: Yeah, but I love the 49ers, though. That's what makes it hard to be fair and unbiased. 00:34:19 Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't do what you do. I'd just be like, I hate this call. Well, wait a minute. It looks clear, Mike. It looks clear. Yeah, but I hate the Cowboys. I mean, that's the way I would do it. People are like, okay, we can't have you on. You can't do that. You can't say that. Even though I know that you would like to see the 49ers win, you're never biased. You just go by the rules. That's admirable because I couldn't do that. 00:34:40 Speaker 5: Yeah, but that's because after I finished talking and they shut the microphone down, then I'm swearing and throwing my rule book on the countertop and like, What are we doing here? That's my common line now, which seems like it's been the common line this whole week. What are we doing here on all the games I was watching? 00:35:01 Speaker 1: I don't know where to start, but let me just start broad. Let me just start this way. Is it my imagination? Because we used to have you on every week, and we'd talk all these different things and all this stuff. Is it my imagination? You got expensive. God, these people, it's like Michael, it's like, believe me, I went to bat. I'm like, pay him. Let's go. Come on. We got to have this. 00:35:21 Speaker 5: $ 100 a week almost broke the bank. 00:35:25 Speaker 1: That's a good, Hey man, that's, that's like four bottles of Tito's. I mean, come on, what are we talking about here? I'll drive them straight to you. If we have to do this, that'd be amazing. But is it, is it me or is, are we just getting more and more and more of this? Because, you know, you had the lions and the Packers and people were upset. I was even watching on Saturday for that BYU UCF, whatever that was. So is this just normal and we're making a bigger deal of it? Or is this, does this seem like more now? 00:35:51 Speaker 5: No, I don't think it's normal. I mean, if you listen to all of the talk that goes around, and the thing is, you know, I'd like to say, first of all, I don't have an answer, but I'd like to say it's normal, but it just isn't because you're seeing too many calls to me that are being made that don't have to be called. And, you know, normally I would relate that to, you know, mostly people Fault starts and defense offsides and delay of games. But that's part of the equation for the added number of penalties. But, you know, to me, you're seeing player protection

fouls go a little bit too far here. And when you cite a couple of the roughing the passer calls in the Green Bay Detroit game, when you think about the Rams game a couple of weeks ago on the hit on a defenseless player at a key point in the game, which put Arizona in line to kick the field goal. to win the game. And that's not a foul. So are we, are we, are, is there some messages being sent out, which I don't think there is, but are there messages being say out at all costs, we've got to protect the players, the old when in doubt throw, which we got away from, you know, when in doubt is a terrible thing to tell officials. So when in doubt, call the foul, no, when in doubt, don't call the foul, either be right or be wrong. But I just, I don't know, but to me it started out with a tremendous amount of penalties in the first four weeks, then leveled off a bit, but then we just seemed to have the breakout again. And I think, John, and I'm just rambling, but I think the league is trying to curtail it. I mean, they did send out a memo to the officials saying, okay, listen, make them big. They were concerned with the– with the number of fouls, they should make them big. And so they're indicating there's some concern, but it doesn't seem to be having an effect. 00:37:49 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:37:50 Speaker 1: Well, one of the, Mike, one of the things, and Mike Perez, Jonas from Fox, and we're obviously, we're talking about the officials here on the sports leader. You, we would always talk to you about at the beginning of the year, what is being emphasized? What are points of emphasis? And it seems like to me over the last couple of weeks, It's always been like this, and I try to explain it to people. Look, they don't want the leading man of the movie to be out of the movie. They don't shoot him in the beginning. So they want the starting quarterbacks in there. I get it. But is there a re-emphasis, if that's even something, of protecting the quarterbacks even more than they have? Because like you said, it's the Packers game. I get that. But it just seems like there's a lot of calls right now that are over protection of the quarterbacks. 00:38:30 Speaker 5: I think when you see, like, all of a sudden you look and you see the Packers that have been called for twice as many roughing the passer penalties than anybody in the league, you know, you start to look and say, is there a reason for that? Are they more aggressive with the quarterback? And I haven't seen that. I mean, obviously they were called twice for them this week. And, you know, I think Dean Blandino actually addressed it right when he said that's the teaching technique. where you didn't hit the head or neck area and you took him to the ground, but you turned to the side and landed on the ground. And then it got called for, um, roughing the passer, which is not. And I don't think, I think the league is beyond by saying we will forgive these, you know, we will forgive them because we want to protect

the quarterback. And we understand that, right, John. I mean, because maybe, maybe other than the 49ers who have Mac Jones backing them up, there's not a lot of great backup quarterbacks in this league. And so you the game is a lot better with the starting quarterback but um i i don't know i think they have to look at this week and i'm not in the inner circle there but they have to look at this week and say you know why is it because there was a young referee that had the green bay um the green bay and and uh Detroit game. Um, is it the fact that they've opened it up to the umpire now that the umpire can call roughing the passer since they moved them into the offensive backfield, which I was never for, because now you're adding a second player's judgment, you know, to me, that's the referee's primary call. It's what he makes a living on. And I don't think that the umpire is qualified is uniquely at least qualified to make that call. Is that part of the issue? I don't know, but I know one thing. The league can't be happy. Fans aren't happy. I'm not happy because I know these guys and love these guys, and I hate to see them have these issues and make these kind of mistakes. But, you know, you've got to work somehow to make this a little bit better and figure out where is the breakdown. I mean, as simple as saying, do we have too many people that are training? I mean, they got so many people back in New York. you know, are, are, are there consistent training coming from all of the supervisors? I think they're better off downfield and, and, you know, and then you look and you say with the downfield training, then you look and say, okay, well, who's, who's one of the main referee trainer? Let's see, let's go to CBS, Gene Steratore. Wait a minute. We've got the, we got the CBS rules analyst as a referee trainer. Well, geez, then I want a job for God's sakes. I want a job to be the line of scrimmage trainer or something. You know, it's just, they got so many people involved in the process is maybe that it, I don't know. I don't have the answer, but if it doesn't settle down in another week or two, I just can't believe that the competition committee is going to be happy to sit back and watch this because it's just a, It's too much in the forefront of the news. 00:41:48 Speaker 1: It's always great to talk to Mike Pereira. He's the former vice president officiating in the National Football League. And of course, you see him on Fox. And you're almost like a police officer. Like we only see Mike when there's a problem. You know, it's like, oh, let's go. Let's go ask Mike about it. It's like, oh, you know. So in terms of– and I don't know if you have this stat, so I don't want to put you on the spot like this. But as you said at the beginning, are they calling more? Because, again, this is just my seeming, and I should look up these numbers before I ask this question. But are there more? Because it just seems like there's always a flag. It seems like there's

more. And, look, I know nothing, but I always think to myself, if it's not– right in the middle of the player. It has nothing to do with the play. Should you call a flag? I don't know what they teach you there, but it's like, I just see so many and there's already so many stoppages in play. And I don't know if they take into account, like, is this a watchable product? Because people hate flags. 00:42:39 Speaker 5: Yeah, I know people hate referees. I spoke to, I spoke to, I spoke to a group. I went to San Diego and spoke to a group of judges, actually 150 judges in San Diego on Friday, this past Friday. And it's like, what, what, what are you doing here? Why are you talking to us? Why is a football referee talking to us? And I said, because you know what, we have a lot of things in common. Everybody hates us. You know, half of the people think we've made a bad decision. I mean, referees have to deal with two teams and two coaches. Well, you have two teams and coaches, the plaintiffs, the defendants, and then they each have a coach, the attorney. And I'm sure sometimes you have wanted to tell the attorneys that, that coach to stick it up as, but, you know, we have a lot of similarities here and, and, um, you know, I don't, the, the, the number of penalties are really not up that much might be maybe one and a half to a game or so, which doesn't seem like much, but it is one and a half a game that it's just the big calls that just seem up the fact that through week four, I think there was 18 touchdowns taken off the board by penalty. I can't tell you. I mean, I looked at stats through, they were through week four and they called them high impact misses, high impact misses, which normally means you take away a change of possession or you take away a score. High impact misses, they listed one. So, you know, you look at that and at least on how they're grading it, they're not seeing that as mistakes being made. And then do you go, Well, okay. Well, if there's two more penalties a game, are they seeing more? Are they getting better? I mean, are they seeing more and making more correct calls? I don't, I, we go back to my old statement from many, many moons ago. And I've really kind of felt like this, that officiating is part art and part science. And, you know, part science is everything is black and white and you have to call everything that black is black and white art. is realizing what you don't have to call and because it's not going to have any impact in the play at all. So game flow becomes equally as important, as important, you know, as the fouls that are being called the, the science part. So I don't, I don't know if we're headed there as a group or headed there as a game. But again, I mean, I, are we having too much turnover? Are we having too much turnover in the officiating ranks? Everybody say you never find it, fire anybody. Well, Sorry, that's not true. Look at the numbers. Are they expanding? They've got a bench now, extra officials. They are beginning to put officials, those that are struggling at least, into the spring leagues, the UFL. Good things are happening, but the results don't really have seemed to come to fruition yet. 00:45:40 Speaker 1: My prayer is shown as from Fox. I think you bring up a great point because you're right. As you were saying that, I was thinking back in my mind, like you said, the Cardinals game, you know, a roughing the passer is 15 yards. It's maybe, you know, it's those penalties that are, that are being called more than ever. I don't know what your thought is on Mike Florio. He's, he's definitely not a favorite in the Bay area. And I certainly don't want to start a fight with, with you and Mike Florio, but he says that the league needs to tear down the current status quo. There's a piece of, he actually said this on a show, a tear down the current status quo of NFL officiated and completely re-imagine the process of applying the rules in football at the professional level. Is it that dire? that they, he's saying start over. I wouldn't say that, right? 00:46:20 Speaker 5: I mean, I read it too. Start over and do what? I don't, you can't come up with a new plan if you really don't have an issue. His thing is to have an eye in the sky, excuse me, John, which I don't necessarily disagree with. And I think they're getting close to that with these expedited reviews and video assists, but Again, where is the problem? Where do you tear it down? Is it the group of officials on the field? Is it the supervisors? Look, I'll tell you, I've been through both. It is so hard on the field. Everything is so fast. And it's only gotten a lot faster since I got off the field in 1997, my last year. And then you look at the internal pressures, the internal pressures for the job as the head of officiating, although I'm not even sure who that is nowadays. But that job is enormously difficult with the pressures that come from the coaches and the general managers, and even your own people in the league, the commissioner and the competition committee also. It's extremely tough. And I don't have the answer, a complete breakdown. No, I was an advocate and have been for a long time and put this report on Ray Anderson's desk. It was the head of football operations at the time and Roger Goodell's desk. And it was the future of officiating. And I did believe that there should have been a, or there should be, because I still believe it, there should be an officiating institute somewhere in the middle of the country. Maybe you're hated Dallas. Maybe that's the place to put it. But all 17 referees have to go there every week, all week long. It's no going home. They're going to make the 17 referees full-time so that they hear consistent messages all the time, that they are involved with every part of the decision-making that's within the officiating department. They assist in the new rules. They go to the clubs in the off-season a lot. They become... full-time because I believe

this, that the referee, and I've always believed this, and I don't think any referee will tell you different. The referee is the leader of the crew. He is the one that gives the messagings to the other six members of his crew. And I'm not sure they're all getting consistent messages. They didn't with me. I will tell you that because I was kind of understaffed maybe. And so I don't think the messages were getting out as they should. And hindsight is 50-50, and I do it a little bit differently now. But I do think the biggest step that we could take in officiating right now is after this week, after this week that we just had, they don't go home to San Jose, California. They don't go home to Austin, Texas. They don't go home to Pittsburgh. The referees, the 17 referees go right to Dallas or Kansas City or whatever. And they study all the video of all the games together as a unit. So they see everything the same way. So if I was Florio and I had a specific idea in mind, that would be the one because you're not going to get full-time officials, everyone. It's not worth it. It's not practical. It's not going to help. But to me, if you make those 17 white hat guys, the guys that turn around, turn on the microphone and make the announcements, if you get those people involved in the leadership of officiating, then I think you have a better chance to change things. And I think the committee also maybe needs to look and say, can we factor in common sense again? and figure out how we can make the game flow a little bit better. 00:50:16 Speaker 1: That was so good. I was just I was sitting there. 00:50:19 Speaker 2: No, I was Mike. 00:50:20 Speaker 1: I was sitting there mesmerized by it because what you just said there at the end where it's like get together and let's be consistent. I think that's the number one thing. And I think officials get way too much grief because fans love their players and they don't want to get on their coach and they have the jersey of the player. And so the easy guy is the zebra. That's the low hanging fruit. So I, they get on them, but what you just said is the exact thing. And, you know, if you're not re-imagine it, but like you said, like after the games, do they, is that all sent out to all the officials to whatever job they do and say, look, guys, let's get on the same page here again. Not that they don't know the rules, but, but how it should be interpreted. So in other words, this is roughing the passer. This isn't, this is, you know, a penalty like the Cardinals Rams game. Does that all get sent out and say, guys, you know, these are high profile plays. That is not a personal foul. Or, I mean, does that happen after the game where they get on the same page? 00:51:11 Speaker 5: It does get sent out, but it's, you know, and this could be another thing where I go on for 30 minutes and then my wife would say, like everybody else said, shut your mouth. You're talking too much. You know, but I think they, I think they get it, but it's more their individual calls. Yeah, some are going to get it in a mid-season meeting. They're going to put up plays for all the referees to look at. But they don't do that weekly? 00:51:39 Speaker 1: They don't do that weekly? 00:51:41 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, they have access to go online and see them if they so choose. 00:51:46 Speaker 1: But the league doesn't pick out plays and say... Because it sounds to me a little bit like. 00:51:51 Speaker 5: Oh, they pick out plays. I mean, I used to do that, pick out plays. Sure, they get what they call training dates. 00:51:56 Speaker 1: I don't mean to interrupt, but what I'm saying is it sounds when you're talking there that it's like... Well, then don't interrupt me, damn it. No, I'm sorry. I will never do it again. But the one thing is when you're saying that, it sounds like umpires who determine what the strike zone is and then they bring in the electronics because... It's not open to interpretation, right? It's written down. Now, you and I have talked about this a million times in the past. It's up to interpretation. There's a lot of rules like that in the league, and I understand that. But is there a way that they can at least be consistent? Because I think that's where the frustration comes in, right? It's not consistent? 00:52:28 Speaker 5: Well, that's the frustration with the coaches and everybody, and the frustration even with people like me. I mean, you see different things. like formations and you see some crews call a tackle for being a little bit off the line of scrimmage and then others don't. And then you see something called in the first quarter and then it's not called in the fourth. I mean, a coach would tell you, I think every one of the coaches would say, consistency is the issue. Just give me consistency. But it's hard because you're dealing with 120 some odd individuals that And some are better than others. I mean, they're better. They see more and they see it slower. And it's a little bit, if you had everyone that had the same abilities, then you might be able to pull something off like that. But it's really hard to do because everything happens so fast. But I remember Roger saying to me, Goodell saying to me, you know, is that, you know, you look at things and you go through and say, hey, hey, we've had a pretty good two weeks here. Well, no, don't say that to Roger. He said, well, then get better. We've always got to try to get better. We always got to try to be perfect. And I think that's the right approach. There's too much invested now. And, you know, with everything that's opened up and I just think it's hard. I mean, I'm going to wait for some day for you to call me after a week where the storyline and all the media is, hey, the officials had a good week this week. 00:54:00 Speaker 1: I'll never call you. I'll never call you then. Like when the 49ers kick you out. 00:54:09 Speaker 5: No, go ahead. Go ahead. I mean, here I thought you were going to ask me about,

well, the— The 49ers substitution issue when Atlanta substituted. 00:54:17 Speaker 1: In the huddle. 00:54:18 Speaker 8: Yeah, come on. 00:54:18 Speaker 1: They should have been able to substitute there. What's the deal? Why didn't the official hang the ball? 00:54:23 Speaker 5: You got to wait. That's an unusual situation only because if there's no sense of a hurry up, so if you substitute in the huddle, directly into the huddle, you don't worry about it, okay, because it's not an issue. But also you do worry about it if you substitute into the huddle and then you break quickly and run to the line of scrimmage. Then you've got to go scurry back and do a matchup. But I think there's no time thing. It doesn't say three seconds. It doesn't say one second. It's just if they go into the huddle and then they break and go to the line of scrimmage. Look, they try to keep you from playing games with substitutions, and that's what that was. And so I think Kyle was right to be upset about that. I don't know what he's been told by the league, but to me, that was one you want to get stopped. And then, then, you know, then you look at the catch and the end zone, the out of bounds that the ball came loose and all those things. And, um, but you know, I will say this in all seriousness, um, I really like you and I love KNBR and, um, I don't care if I don't get a single damn bottle of Tito's all year long. Anytime, anytime you want to, call and check in with me and have a little fun. I'm game. I'm game. 00:55:34 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. It's the best. I belong. I know this is weird. I belong to this, to a vodka club. As funny as that is, I got to get your address. I got, I'm going to send you some vodka because this is so good. And I want, I want you to feel good because we've been talking for years and everybody gets on you and they used to, you know, send you stuff and you get mad at you. There's a guy right now from the 408. He says, Absolute gold. This is incredible insight from Mike Pereira. This is the interview of the week on a Tuesday. 00:56:02 Speaker 5: Incredible. 00:56:03 Speaker 1: The whole text line is full of people loving you, man. That's unusual. So I just want to make sure you know that the people love you. They're just mad. 00:56:09 Speaker 5: But I'm a typical official. I feel under the gun. He just told me I'm the interview of the week. And for God's sakes, it's 11 o'clock on Tuesday. 00:56:21 Speaker 1: Like people don't expect much out of this show you know it is it might be the interview of the year you know i mean who knows no this is great stuff man i i got vodka coming your way you give tim your your number i gotta your address i gotta get i gotta get some to you everybody loves when you come on i know that on sundays and maybe even saturdays they get mad at you but uh But we love having you on, and the only thing I care about is that you're feeling good. Everything good? Back's good? 00:56:47 Speaker 5: Health is good? We were

just talking about that last night. It's actually three years ago in a week when I had my back surgery, and when I went from not being able to walk and not being able to do my job, having to miss a whole year of my job at Fox, I went from that to surgery in San Francisco. My gosh, Dr. Sigurd Bervin, who then was with UCSF, Um, took such good care of me and, you know, now I'm back to hitting the ball about two 10 on the golf course and, and, uh, and getting in that range where I think I'm going to, I think I'm going to get close to breaking 80 again. And, um, I just, I feel, I feel great and I feel so appreciative of everything that around that is around me, including this ocean now to make you feel bad. In Southern California that I'm looking at the waves right here in Manhattan Beach. So my life is wonderful. I'm lucky and I appreciate every second of it. Appreciate you. Appreciate the fans. Appreciate the players and love the officials. I just am sad that they're going through this. 00:57:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally get it. You're so great. Like I said, the text line is just full. Mike is the man. Mike is a legend. 209 legend. See, people love you now that you explained everything. They feel better. 00:58:09 Speaker 5: My hometown. My hometown. 209 legend. Yeah. 00:58:13 Speaker 1: Mike, thank you so much. Enjoy the ocean. Enjoy the time. I love watching you on the weekends, even if it's just, you know, like I said, you're like a police officer. It's like, oh, here comes the bad. They got to talk to Pereira. But you're the best. Thanks for making the time. I'm glad your health is great. And we'll talk to you soon. 00:58:28 Speaker 5: You got it, John. 00:58:29 Speaker 6: Thanks. 00:58:30 Speaker 1: That is Mike Pereira. That was a lot of fun. He just gave us a bunch of stuff to talk about. Give us your thoughts, Mike Pereira. They're explaining things. 415-808-KMBR, 415-888-5627. Of course, Mike is the former vice president of officiating in the National Football League rules analyst at Fox. Not only do you see him Sunday, Saturday, and I didn't get deep into this because it didn't affect The 49ers and the NFL, but the game between Central Florida and BYU was just a complete dumpster fire. Just, oh my God. And Mike was just, I don't even know what to tell you about this game. It was crazy. But so you see him all weekend long. So I appreciate everybody giving Mike some love because, you know, on the weekends, people are drinking beers and sitting on their couch and they're trying to hit Mike up. I don't think he responds anymore. 00:59:09 Speaker 5: He used to. 00:59:09 Speaker 1: Uh, via social media, but I don't think he does anymore. He's like, I've had enough of that, but great stuff from Mike prayer. Give us your thoughts on that fine interview. We're going to flip over to the, let's see, am I late to him? Uh, not too bad. 00:59:21 Speaker 5: Actually. 00:59:21 Speaker 1: I could have taken talk to Mike all day, but we're not too late. So let's read, let's first reset everything that Mike said there. And then bottom of the hour, give you some great random sound only here on the sports leader.