บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Performance Domain feat. Dr Christine Jehu

you know, I like to lean back at that era, that time. 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:26.879 Come along with us, y'all take a vibe. 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:29.759 Uh get yourself ready for a great conversation. 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:32.560 It's been a while since I bounced a little combo off of someone else. 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:34.479 So I'm really looking forward to that today. 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:36.479 But you know, just vibe with people now. 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:43.520 I put two waters out there for you. 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.159 And I was interested to see which one you were gonna go for. 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:52.719 Because you know some people like tap, not tap room temperature water, some people like cold water. 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:55.919 So And then you got your Eagles water bottle too. 00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:04.719 We're gonna accept you today just because we have to, you know, but anybody that knows me on this podcast, they know that I'm a very, very competitive with my New York sports teams. 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:10.639 And anything that is Philadelphia, New York in the last couple years has been like a hot button. 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:11.680 Topic okay. 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:14.960 We can we can leave that off the table for that. 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:16.479 We can put it on the table too. 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:20.080 We do play y'all in the next month or so, so I mean I'm looking forward to that. 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:22.560 Listen, I let the players do their job. 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:25.039 I just might do the fan job. 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:25.840 That's fair. 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:26.400 That's fair. 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:30.479 And it's week two, so like we can't really talk about that much yet. 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:30.719 Right. 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:32.000 Y'all doing good right now though. 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:33.759 Yeah, up currently while we're recording. 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:34.479 I love it. 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:34.960 I love it. 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:36.240 Hopefully it stays that way. 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:45.280 Listen, y'all, wherever you at and wherever you're listening from, we got listeners and want viewers from like all over the place in this podcast. 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:49.919 You know, a little bit of overseas, a little bit of Asia, Europe, South America. 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:53.360 So, you know, this one might go a little further than you may. 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:55.759 Well, I don't know. 00:03:56.719 --> 00:04:03.599 As someone who's done it, which we'll dive into a little bit more before, like what is your I guess how big did your reach get? 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:08.080 I like to consider myself a super small time creator, the king of the small time creators. 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:12.719 You know, uh how how successful, I guess, was yours when you were doing it? 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:18.240 I mean, I don't actually I couldn't even tell you the numbers right now, but like definitely stateside. 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:21.600 And I think there were like a like a couple of people in Europe, maybe. 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:22.160 Okay. 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:22.720 Yeah. 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:26.399 I still wonder how people, you know, in those spaces find podcasts. 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:31.199 So I would love to hold some of my my listeners' viewers at that point. 00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:33.920 But I think some of it is the power of social media, right? 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:39.519 Like if you right, you share and somebody's connected here and then they get it and they share, it's yeah. 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:44.959 Alright, y'all, let's keep this thing going. 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:49.199 Hopefully, you know where we're kind of leaning into today so we keep this thing super 90s. 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:51.839 One of my favorite art rap groups of all time. 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:55.360 Ooh, messed up. 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:58.639 My DJing skills ain't exactly on point today. 00:04:58.959 --> 00:04:59.920 Couple air horns. 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:02.399 If you're not up just yet, wake up the energy. 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:04.480 Stay with us as we warm this thing up. 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:09.600 You know, the pain in my knee just started to kind of dissipate a little bit as I get a little closer to game time. 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:10.480 So stay with us. 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:12.240 Little outcast in the building. 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:15.040 Oh natural black game. 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:18.639 No second. 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:21.600 Well, it's the MI Cricket. 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:22.959 Ain't no one better. 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:27.439 And when I'm on the microphone, you best away your sweater, cause I'm cooler than a polar bear's toenails. 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:28.879 Oh, then you go again. 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:31.839 Corners like I was a curve. 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:34.959 I struck a nerve, and now you about to say that something flagged slur. 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.360 If I heard that's not what you want, but what you pay rent. 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:38.720 Then I heard it's not what you make. 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:40.959 But how much you think you got me fit that elbows? 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:42.639 Amongst other things, but I'm not worried. 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:45.120 Cause when we step up in the party like I'm out to stir it. 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:48.319 So what is your fucking side box and your stack of nickels, it tickles. 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:49.680 You about to be like Mr. 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:50.079 Fickle. 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:09.199 If you remember this one, if you know this one singing word for word, if everybody let me make it stay okay. 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:13.120 Those of us 40 and up, those of us 50 and up, maybe mid 30s. 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:18.240 I forget exactly what a millennial thing cuts off at, but we don't we like to leave it to those people. 00:06:18.399

--> 00:06:20.480 If you're too young, go act your parents about it. 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:28.800 If not, I will be just the future of the world depends on. 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:31.360 If or if not the child race, gon' have that nigga syndrome. 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:33.920 I will it know to beat the arts regardless of its skin tone. 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:36.240 I will feel that it's the tune and it just might get picked on. 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:38.720 I will give a fuck about what other play and get gone. 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:41.199 The alienators cut them different, keep your hands to the sky. 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:43.680 Like sound of blackness when I practice, when I preach it, don't lie. 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:46.079 I'll be the maker and the maker of the beast of my pop. 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:48.639 Now break a breaker to the phone, can I get some reply? 00:06:51.680 --> 00:07:01.439 So given all the places you like lived in your lifetime, someone who's somewhat traveled, like I guess musically in your younger days, what were your favorites? 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:02.480 Like what was your thing? 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:12.639 I mean, so here's the thing with me is I appreciate music for what it is, but I'm like, if you asked me to name artists and songs, I wouldn't be able to do it. 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:14.720 That's fair. 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.439 But I would say, I mean, I always go back to like 90s typical. 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:20.160 Uh-huh. 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:21.600 Always frustrated and now. 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:31.439 I know some of the people we are frequented around now might not, you know, appreciate our perspectives on it, but they really don't make it like they used to. 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:36.079 Keep it going with a job. 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:37.120 We're gonna get to this thing in a moment. 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:40.160 Well, slow walk the dog, it ain't game time just yet. 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:48.959 So I'm ready for war. 00:07:58.639 --> 00:07:59.439 Let's get it going, y'all. 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:03.680 We got one more for y'all as we keep this thing rolling towards our intro. 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:05.839 One of my favorite artists of all time. 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:10.639 And if you didn't know, this is not. 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:17.680 Thank you for the you know, you feel warmed up with the rest of the listeners with us. 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:29.519 I excel, death, bell. 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:32.240 Don't make us contact that I attract my tell. 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:35.440 Oh my check is like a depth that it's like a trap by XL. 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:44.480 Like a damn like a comment on the L and I'm a check and hit the upper like a comment face. 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.639 So he's dressed like my friend and extended. 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:06.159 80s, 90s, 2000s. 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:09.039 Come along with us, table it's a little longer. 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:10.000 We'll be there in a moment. 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:39.919 Speaking of secure, do you see the kills like catching a flag right now? 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:40.879 All over the internet. 00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:47.519 Not to make it political or anything like that, but he was seen getting a honorary, I think, FBI. 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:50.960 Like, you know, like a honorary doctor, honorary this thing. 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:57.200 He was like an honorary F BBI agent, and he was teamed with Cat Spattel, the director of the FBI recently. 00:09:57.440 --> 00:09:57.600 Okay. 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:10.559 One because Jack likes to like it's not the first time he's been like honorary law enforcement, so it's like, why do you want to keep like playing a cop? 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:15.279 But it's also a person who's played multiple things in his life, like, outside of being an athlete. 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:24.000 I don't remember if you know the uh did movies of Shazam, that amazing piece of content. 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:27.919 And then they got the other one where it's like a superhero, but I forget the name of it. 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:39.039 But Zach has always been like uh, I guess uh bigger than just the the game kind of person, but yeah, he hit up the internet with that one recently, so I'm gonna have to look that up. 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:39.840 Yeah, yeah. 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:41.759 Very interesting conversation that's game. 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:45.919 I don't know how into the social media thing you are, but people are pretty angry at Zach right now. 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:47.279 I can understand that. 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:48.480 I can understand it. 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:54.240 Is that like something that they do, like honorary FBI, or is that like they're doing? 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:56.879 You know, I think it's maybe something that they're doing. 00:10:56.960 --> 00:10:57.279 Uh-huh. 00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:59.919 Them being, you know, to whom it may apply. 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:00.480 Uh-huh. 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:02.559 Yeah, making choices. 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:08.080 Well, once again, wherever you are, wherever you're listening from, thanks for coming to check us out as we warm this thing up. 00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:09.600 Body feels good now. 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:12.320 We've settled into the the the competition ahead of us. 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:13.919 Not that this is a competition or anything. 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:14.799 I got you, I got you. 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:19.200 Uh, so as we intro this thing, as always, one more time, we are back for another audio occasion. 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:22.879 It is the podcast for self-starters and those willing to make the most out of any situation. 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:24.720 The EFS podcast is back. 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:29.360 Uh, and as we kick off, we got a little bit of lead-in audio for you today. 00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:31.600 Hopefully, I lost it again. 00:11:31.679 -->

00:11:36.159 This always happens to me when I do this, but I'm a little bit quicker at getting it back now. 00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:42.480 Um today's audio is gonna come from a person who is on the collegiate level. 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:59.519 You know, we'll talk about our guests here in a moment, a little more specifically, but says some very powerful things in the media, and it kind of changed some of my perspective on some of the NIL comments I made, which I still feel like, and I'm not willing to completely die on that just yet, but this young man, uh, someone who's a little bit closer to our region, too. 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:03.759 I don't know if you saw this one from um Penn State um a player, but here it goes. 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:08.720 It's a big opportunity, you know. 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:10.080 My parents still struggling. 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:11.759 You know, I'm broke, you know. 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:19.840 So while everybody else still trying to buy their next pendant or buy their next car, I'm really just trying to fill in all the holes that I have back at home. 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:33.679 Understanding the platform that I'm having, and just seeing all of that stuff and like understanding how far I came, I really try to take advantage and um take full advantage in the opportunity that I can, like I said, with the platform. 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:35.200 Because I come from none. 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.559 When I go home, I'm not even a football player, I'm still a son. 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:43.919 So everything that I gotta do beforehand and afterhand, I gotta do it based off my parents. 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:45.919 That football stuff is out the door. 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:52.480 So, you know, for the opportunity that I gotten with the NIO era and the great coaching staff and all that, I'm thankful for that. 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:57.679 And that is that coming from Ciale to uh Pocky. 00:12:57.759 --> 00:12:59.519 Sorry if I butchered your name on that one. 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:06.320 Uh, but college football athlete for Penn State sharing his perspective about the you know opportunity he is presented with. 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:12.639 Uh so as always, as we get this thing going, get my intro music up, let my theme music run. 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:17.279 We got one, two, three, four, an abundance of air horns on the way in. 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:22.879 Get yourself ready for some interesting conversation today. 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:26.000 Very happy to be back in the the spot with someone else. 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:32.080 Um, but as always, if you made it to the audio slash visual occasion, please do not forget to like, comment, share, and subscribe. 00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:33.519 It is the EFS Podcast. 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.600 We are back for episode number 88 with your boy, the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:38.960 1%, 2 times, Mr. 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:39.200 D. 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:39.600 Burke. 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:42.480 Um, and very happy to be in the house with our guest today. 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:51.759 Uh, we'll go official introductors in a moment, but you know, a big round of applause for coming to hang out with me for a little bit and enjoy some very interesting conversation. 00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:52.799 We got Dr. 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:53.600 Dr. 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:54.960 CJ, would you call it? 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:55.600 Dr. 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:57.120 You know, officially Dr. 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:04.159 Christine J, who will get into a little bit more about how we met each other uh momentarily, but as we fade out to Steam music, how are you doing? 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:05.120 How are you feeling? 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:06.559 You know, just welcome. 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:07.360 Welcome. 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:10.879 I'm just I've told you this before we started recording, but this setup is legit. 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:12.480 I thank you. 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:18.320 I, you know, put a lot of hard work into us, and I do appreciate when people can kind of appreciate that, you know, upon entry. 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:23.120 So yeah, yeah, it's been a very long, long process again to this point. 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:26.240 So, you know, once again, I appreciate you coming to kick it and hang out with us. 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:27.279 Yeah, well, thanks for having me. 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:28.080 Yeah, 100%. 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:33.440 Uh so as we start this thing off, uh, we will get into you. 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:39.200 Um and I want you to kind of go over your background, your you know, your path in life to where you're currently at. 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.759 Uh first off, your current, you know, role and your current position. 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:43.120 Uh so what do you do? 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.639 And uh we'll dive more into why that's important to us here on the podcast in a moment. 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:51.039 Yeah, so um I'm a clinical sports psychologist, so I'm over at the University of Delaware. 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:53.039 I've been there for about seven years. 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.639 Um, how I got here? 00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:57.519 Yeah, sure. 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.480 You know, like tell us what, you know, got you into that role. 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:04.080 Uh how long have you been in the you know professional psychology? 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:09.679 Um and uh what kind of you know, what what did where did that spark for you at what point in life? 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:10.720 Sure, sure. 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:13.679 So I have been an athlete my entire life. 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:15.200 Started with dance. 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:21.519 Um when we moved to New York, I love telling this story because my mom my mom had all the feels about it. 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:24.159 I apparently was a really, really good dancer.

00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:29.600 And so when we moved to New York, my mom had made a promise to my dance teachers to keep me in the studio. 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:35.120 And so we moved to um we moved to Virginia and my brother wanted to take karate. 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:36.720 And he was like, really cool. 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:37.440 I want to do it too. 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.840 And my mom looked at me and she's like, But I promised your teachers. 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.159 Six-year-old me was like, I don't care. 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.080 I wanna take karate like this. 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:44.960 Sounds really cool. 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:45.200 Right. 00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:51.200 So trained in martial arts, tested for my black belt in the fifth grade, was the first female to get my black belt from that studio. 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:55.919 And then um shifted gears and soccer became my main focus. 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:56.320 Okay. 00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:01.440 Um so played soccer year-round, and then in the summers I would dive at the pool. 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:16.159 I wasn't I didn't like swimming, you know, the traditional swimming, but I fell in love with the board and taught myself by watching the practices and I would like listen to how the coach was telling them how to do these dives, and I just started doing it, and then they were like, Why are you not competing? 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:20.000 And so long story short, competed for about four or five years. 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:22.159 Um did really well. 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:27.120 Um, and then went to college, played uh division three soccer. 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.159 Um, yeah, soccer was my main thing, black belt and karate. 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:35.279 So I like to say I'm a psychological ninja because I have a black belt karate and a PhD in psychology. 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:43.759 Um I didn't really uh know like what psychology was, but that's what I went to school to study. 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:54.639 So majored in psychology, minored in studio art, and the summer before my junior year of college, I discovered the field of sports psychology just randomly on the internet. 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:58.879 I don't know what I was doing, uh, but that set my path. 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.360 I took two years off after undergrad. 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:07.599 Um, mostly I'm just gonna be real, mostly I partied and had a good time because I was very studious in college. 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:11.440 Yes, yes. 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:16.160 I didn't really start partying until my junior year of college, so I had like two years to make up on. 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:23.680 So um then I went and did uh my master's in kinesiology with a sports and exercise psychology concentration. 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:24.079 Okay. 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:36.079 And when I was there doing the performance work, when I was meeting with athletes, I found myself more drawn towards the

life elements that were contributing to whatever was showing up in their sport. 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:47.599 And so I made the decision to apply to counseling psychology programs and got accepted to the University of Memphis, and that's where I went, spent five years there. 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:52.720 And yeah, I spent seven years in grad school because it was a pretty freaking long time. 00:17:52.960 --> 00:18:12.960 And then got um just a general college counseling, like a clinician job out of my degree, got licensed, all of that, and then I had this moment where I had to like check myself and say, Hey, you got into this field to do sports, and you're just you're kinda dabbling and like, yeah, you're getting a paycheck, but you're miserable. 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.839 I did not enjoy where I was working. 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:26.160 And so I am a big affirmation person, and the first affirmation that year it was like I think I put them on my wrote all these down in January, I think. 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:30.160 And the first one was I'm the head sports psychologist at a division one university. 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:33.440 Nine months later, I got the job at Delaware. 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:38.240 And moved there four months before the pandemic. 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:40.720 Okay, and have been building it ever since. 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:48.400 So from the point of learning about the field to when I got my job as a sports psychologist was 15 years. 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:49.680 Okay, nice. 00:18:49.839 --> 00:19:00.960 Cause I was gonna say, off of everything that you were just speaking about, like when did because I'm a college athlete or was at one point in my life, and you know, uh these people who follow this podcast definitely know that. 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:02.880 Um we talked about it enough on here. 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:09.200 Uh, but I feel like those that industry wasn't very like prevalent back when I was in college. 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:09.599 Right. 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:16.559 Like it was just like practice, do your homework, and whatever else happens in between, we'll make sure we check on you if necessary. 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:31.839 So when did it become more like of a focus for schools to offer like mental health services and just generally have that kind of support for athletes, you know, which we'll dive more into what UD is doing in a second, but like when did that kind of start or when did that shift uh happen? 00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:42.480 Yeah, so when I was in my master's program, my advisor or the one who was training me on that side of the things, um, said that we were third generation in the field. 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:43.039 Okay. 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:45.680 So the field is still very, very young. 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.880 So the um in the American Psychological Association, we have different divisions. 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:54.960 So Division 47 is the Society for Sport Exercise and Performance Psychology. 00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:01.359 That's the I sit on the board, I'm actually the president-elect right now of that society. 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:04.559 But we just celebrated our 40th anniversary. 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:08.640 So the field is like basically as old as I am. 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:25.680 Um and so yeah, I and I always say if I if sports psychology had been a thing and I had access to someone doing what I do, I don't know if I would be in the field because I might have had a different athletic path, right? 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:28.799 And who knows where that no regrets, right? 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:42.880 Like I loved my life, I loved college and all of that, but I do sometimes wonder there were some some places where I could have competed at a higher level, but my mind was holding me back, and so yeah. 00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:50.000 So that's what like the majority of the people our age that I talked to, they're like, Man, if I only had you, and I'm like, I know, if I only had me too. 00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:50.960 No, for sure. 00:20:51.119 --> 00:21:00.400 You know, I look back at some of my times in college and I I think about like I you probably needed some support or some help then when you were going through what you were going through mentally at that time. 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:05.359 So uh I'm a big, you know, proponent and advocate of mental health and athletes. 00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:13.359 So for me, when we first connected, which was just by happenstance when I was doing an event, uh somewhere you were are you still a member there? 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:13.920 I am. 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:14.559 All right, great. 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:21.519 We can shout them out because my girlfriend is the one with the the head of operations for her ownership group uh at restore hyperwellness. 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:23.599 So they that was where we first met. 00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:30.640 And then, you know, when we when I asked you what you did and you immediately told me what it was, it was like, okay, I have to talk to you at some point. 00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:40.079 Just because, you know, my own journey with sports as an athlete and just again the mental health struggles that all athletes can kind of go through is something that interests me. 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:54.559 Um so it even more so interests me that in your current role with the University of Delaware, you are doing so well that UD is ranked the number two uh in the nation for I guess the exact category, I want to say it correctly, with number two in the nation for what? 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:59.759 For mental health support services to the athletes, I think this organization it's like. 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:11.359 I because I looked into it last year when it first came out, and I think it's some sort of organization that student athletes are members of, and then they survey their membership. 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:19.920 And our student,

so it's the piece that's really cool is it's our students that are sharing that we have really great resources. 00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:21.759 I have no idea what the questions are. 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:27.039 Um, but yeah, the fact that they see it and two years in a row, we've been in the top 10. 00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:28.640 Okay, nice, nice. 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:34.079 Yeah, so that means you guys are doing a really, really good job of keeping your athletes in a good space mentally, you know. 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:41.039 Um, so talk about what that looks like for you on a, I guess, a day-to-day basis or weekly basis, whatever. 00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:43.359 Like how many athletes are you in front of? 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:49.680 Uh, and what kind of issues or maybe not issues, what kind of things, what kind of conversations are you having with them? 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:52.720 Uh, what kind of services are set up for them in that lane? 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:54.079 Yeah, absolutely. 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:59.440 So when I started at Delaware, it was just me for 600 student athletes. 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:00.240 Yikes. 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:01.440 Oh, yeah. 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:03.920 And then that thing called the pandemic happens. 00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:05.039 As well, right. 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:05.519 Yeah. 00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:09.440 I mean, it just like that is that is not the way to do it. 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:12.160 Like one person for 600 is a really poor ratio. 00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:17.200 Um, but now there are three of us um full-time for our student athletes. 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:19.359 I'm more in an administrative role at this point. 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:26.640 So I have two staff members, full-time staff members, licensed mental health providers who also have a specialization in sports psychology. 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:30.400 Because we do the mental health, we do the performance and the blend. 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:31.920 Um yeah. 00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:38.000 So a typical week, um, I tell my team, you know, 20 to 25 clinical hours. 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:45.039 And that can be that one-to-one in the office with the student athletes, but then it's also being out in the environment. 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:53.759 So it might be attending practices, having consultations with coaches, but also being in front of the teams delivering mental performance programming. 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:58.559 And so one day you could have, say, six clients coming in one-on-one. 00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:06.960 And then the next day it could be a coach consultation, a couple of staff meetings, and going out to practice, and then a game in the evening. 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:12.880 And when we're at games, it just really depends on the coaching staff and our level of involvement with the teams. 00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:14.960 For some of them, we're on the sidelines. 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:16.880 For some of them, we're in the locker room. 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:20.079 Um, some of them the coaches are consulting us at halftime. 00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:24.720 It just really depends on one, the coach's philosophy and two, what they need. 00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:26.720 And three, how integrated are we? 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:31.839 So the coaches are the ones that are trying to like integrate you, like you just said, into what they're doing. 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:43.200 Like, and are they the ones that make the decision about who gets to see the athlete when, or is it a place where the athlete has an open line of communication to you guys and then can say, hey, like I'm really like bugging out this week. 00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:45.680 I got finals, I got, you know, this and that on my plate. 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:47.200 Like, how exactly does that work? 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:49.440 Yeah, so we don't do any mandated care. 00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.240 Um that's yeah, we just don't do it. 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:56.079 So the student athletes have to reach out and ask for appointments. 00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:56.480 Okay. 00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:59.519 Um, they can also, like when we're in the space, we're working. 00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:06.880 You know, one of the joys is we get to watch sports as part of our job, but we also are there um to support them. 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.799 And so I just tell them, hey, we're always working. 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.880 So if you need something in the middle of practice, like come over and we can have a conversation. 00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:19.440 Um, so yeah, they come in, but our coaches also can submit information to us and let us know, hey, this is what we're seeing. 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:22.880 Um, we have a form that all of the support staff can fill out. 00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:32.960 And so if a coach sends us something about an athlete or um the academics are seeing something and then the athletic trainer is seeing something, then we're gonna reach out, right? 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:34.480 And be like, hey, what's going on? 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:36.000 Do you need something? 00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:47.279 Um yeah, so it really is driven by the athlete because you know, you have to be wanting to engage in change and be willing to do the work, um, or it's not gonna not gonna work right. 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.359 Right as anything in that field. 00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:56.319 Do you feel a lot of athletes are like reluctant to kind of seek out those services, or like what is your, you know, feeling? 00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:02.559 Because my thought is that mental health is the awareness of it is like at an all-time high from where it used to be, you know. 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:13.680 So now I feel like, and even more so for what I'm understanding about this generation of athletes, is they are usually more um open about the fact that they're dealing with something uh than we might have been in my generation. 00:26:13.759

--> 00:26:16.240 But I know that you know, where there's one, there's still the other. 00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:26.160 So I guess how often do you feel like there's pushback from athletes about the mental health services or versus the ones that are like all in, like, hey, like I do need help with this, so you know, please step in, you know. 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:26.880 Sure, sure. 00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:31.920 I mean, there are some that when you're walking through the facilities, they're like, Hey, Doc Jay Hugh, I'll see you at two. 00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:33.200 And I'm like, Okay, cool, cool. 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:33.519 Thanks. 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:43.839 You know, like there was one day I was walking through our um Whitney Athletics Center, and I'm going up the stairs and I pass one athlete, and they're like, Hey, that thing we talked about, and I'm like, Yeah, yeah, okay, cool. 00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:45.039 You know, we're like out in public. 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.559 And then somebody's like yelling at me from across the way, J Hugh, I need to schedule with you. 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:49.759 And I'm like, you know how to find me. 00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:51.039 And then someone's like, I'll see you at two. 00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:52.559 It's just like, okay. 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:57.839 But I I will say, you know, women are more likely to seek help than men. 00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:58.319 Always. 00:26:58.559 --> 00:26:59.359 We know that, right? 00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:01.759 And it doesn't change based off of identities. 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:07.599 Um, and so we do like the majority of our individual clients are female. 00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:12.240 Um, the men that come through tend to come through on a performance. 00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:14.799 Um, like they'll say performance is the thing. 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:21.200 And then when they get in the room and the trust is there, then it's hey, here's all of the life pieces. 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:30.960 Um yeah, I mean, uh, really it's uh like the differentiation is from a gender standpoint for the most part. 00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:32.480 Um, I understand. 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:44.000 And I've been one on here that many, many times have spoken about, you know, men's health men's mental health and awareness around that and the fact that guys are, you know, a lot more reluctant to seek that out, you know. 00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:51.519 And as someone who's been in therapy, I'm not currently, but you know, at a certain point in my life, uh I was for a decent amount of time. 00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:51.759 Yeah. 00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:53.839 Um, and I I support it. 00:27:53.920 --> 00:28:00.559 So I do know that the the male and definitely the male athletes could have a little more pushback, but I was just curious to see, you know, what that's like. 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:01.039 Yeah. 00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:03.839 And I think I wouldn't necessarily say that they have pushback. 00:28:03.920

--> 00:28:06.720 I think it's still like it's just taboo. 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:19.039 And there are some sports that like mental performance, even the mental performance side for some is taboo, but there are some sports like tennis, golf, like mental performance has been a staple for them. 00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:25.039 And so they are, I would say, less reluctant to come through the door and then it opens up. 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:32.160 But I would say a a um differentiating factor is the support staff and particularly the head coach. 00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:54.319 If the head coach is open and welcomes us in and engages in the dialogue, is in the room when we're doing the sessions and they're asking questions and they're reinforcing what we do outside of the time that they're with us, then that's when I start to see more of the athletes who like traditionally wouldn't come through, then they start to show up. 00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:54.880 Nice. 00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:55.279 Yeah. 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:55.759 Nice. 00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:57.680 Same on the women's side, right? 00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:02.640 Because there are some there are some female coaches out there that I'm like, do you have feelings? 00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:04.319 And they think they don't. 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:06.079 You see it in their team. 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:07.279 Fair enough. 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:07.519 Yeah. 00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:08.480 Fair enough. 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:20.000 Um, so along the lines of, you know, still what we're talking about in the college athletics, um, uh, wanted to kind of move the conversation forward just because, you know, my generation versus where we're at now uh is different. 00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:27.519 And, you know, coming off of the leading audio that we had with the young gentleman who's, you know, uh he's an eighth-year uh football player. 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:27.920 Yeah. 00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:30.400 So, you know, one of those people who stretched it out. 00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:31.759 Yeah, not anymore. 00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.799 Not anymore with the age-based eligibility that just came out. 00:29:35.440 --> 00:30:04.480 So I did, I was, I would say I'm a fan of that rule coming out because my perspective has always been like that, and again, these people know that when you don't cap your eligibility in college, it kind of slows things up for the next generation behind you, which is the young athletes coming from middle school to high school to then college, like the pathways look a little bit different now just because they're giving athletes so many years in college that you know, kind of uh like it's a trickle-down effect, and I think has kind of soured the game in certain ways. 00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:04.880 Sure. 00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:14.000 Uh, but do you see any kind of a, you know, I guess trickle-down effect into like the mental health side of it with a new uh NIL? 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:23.119 Well, now

we're kind of fixing things, but where things have been at with the NIL era um and players uh feeling so easy to jump around from school to school. 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:23.359 Yeah. 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:33.519 Like how has that kind of played into what you do, or have you seen any kind of again trickle-down effect into that part of it um with you know where things were at and kind of maybe rectifying a little bit now? 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:43.839 Yeah, well, I think there's two things at play right now is one of it is the students in college and coming to college now are COVID era kids. 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:44.319 Right. 00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:49.279 And so from a developmental standpoint, there's an impact there. 00:30:49.680 --> 00:31:06.400 And then you bring the NIL pieces in, and you've got people who developmentally and socially delayed, like don't know how to send emails and don't know how to like follow up appropriately that you would expect um when you're in like that business setting. 00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.240 And I mean, college sport is a business now, I guess it always has been. 00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:25.839 Um, so you've got those pieces, and then you're asking them to make humongous decisions in a landscape that is still very much unknown with parents who didn't have to go through that landscape, even if they were an athlete themselves. 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.200 And so people are getting really, really bad advice. 00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:33.839 They're making decisions and being influenced by other people. 00:31:34.160 --> 00:32:00.160 Um, and then yeah, I think when you when you jump around, you don't build resilience because if you're like, fuck you, coach, like you didn't play me or and you think you're a superstar when really like maybe you did deserve to be on the bench, or you weren't putting in the effort and you weren't developing yourself, but you've got people from your past and your stat line from high school hyping you up when it's like, no, sweetheart, you're at a different level now. 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:09.680 And so I don't think that we're building resilience and grit and the like stick to itiveness when we can just say, I'm gonna go get a bag somewhere else. 00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:19.440 And then these people are giving them deals off of, you know, previous stat lines and they don't know if they're a cancer in the locker room or you know what their work ethic is like. 00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:23.440 And um, that's not for everyone, but that's what I tend to see. 00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:29.759 Like now the coaches are wising up to it and when they're like, you're trying to come here as your third and fourth school. 00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:34.880 Like, we have some coaches not even touching it anymore because they've done it and it has not turned out well. 00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:35.839 Yeah, yeah. 00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:40.000 And interesting that coaches are kind of hipping themselves to it now. 00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:53.359 Um, but have you, I guess off of what you just said, have you ever had that kind of conversation with any athlete who may be thinking, like, hey, I want to get out of here and you've made them realize that, you know, be where your feet are, like you said a little bit earlier. 00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:56.160 Um, has that ever happened in your career? 00:32:56.559 --> 00:33:01.680 Um, yeah, I mean, we talk to athletes all the time about is this the right place for me? 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:04.720 And then we break down all the different pieces, right? 00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:07.279 Like, what were you expecting when you came into this? 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.000 And were your expectations met or unmet? 00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:11.119 And in what regard? 00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:14.720 And for some people, it's hey, I actually need to move down a level. 00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:22.720 Because part of what's happened like with Delaware is we went from F um FCS to FBS in the last year. 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:30.240 And so all almost we're in Conference USA now, and so not all of our um sports are sponsored by Conference USA. 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:43.200 So we have a chunk of them in C USA and then others in various, but like for our RevGen sports, they're in a whole different they're playing against different, they were recruited to play in this one league, and then now they're playing against big people. 00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:50.880 Like I remember some of our basketball players telling me, like, I was so glad I was never gonna have to see that woman again because she was like a brick wall and there wasn't anything I could do. 00:33:51.039 --> 00:34:00.799 And it's just like that that adjustment to the level of play, and then what does that do again on your expectations of what you thought you were coming in for and what you're actually getting? 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:06.960 Um I think, yeah, I mean, we do have conversations about like, is the grass greener on the other side? 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:11.599 And then it for me, it always comes back to what are your values and what are your goals? 00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:18.400 And if you left your college experience and didn't have access to X, Y, or Z, like how would that feel? 00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:27.280 And just really try to ground them in what truly matters to them because the shiny stuff is really enticing, but but it's it can also be like a drug. 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:28.559 Yeah, for sure. 00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:29.360 For sure. 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:50.159 It gave me some things to think about, some interesting perspective that I didn't really realize with athletes, especially with the whole COVID era thing that often did not factor in how that changed kids and people who were developing themselves around that time and then throw them into college, with then, you know, now millions and millions of dollars getting thrown around and put in their faces. 00:34:50.320

--> 00:34:56.639 So yeah, it is a tricky time, and definitely good that at least here at your school, you have people to support you like that. 00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:58.880 And the other ones that, you know, don't do participate. 00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:03.119 And I don't know how many schools have services like that now, but uh, it seems like there are more and more. 00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:05.199 Um, and again, something I support 100%. 00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:10.960 Yeah, I think you had asked me earlier, and I didn't get to this point, is um like when did all of this start to shift? 00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:17.760 And I think it was around 2016, I think, was the first mental health best practices was put out from the NCAA. 00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:24.800 Okay, and then they recently updated it maybe in 2024, sometime within the last three-ish years. 00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:37.679 Um, and so in that it what's difficult is the the document is nice and it provides guidance, but it's also very broad because they're writing it for their D1s down to their D3s, right? 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:47.440 Their biggest schools to their smallest schools, and so you can't dictate to everyone that you have somebody on campus because you can't tell them what to do with their budget, right? 00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:49.280 And some schools experience isn't the same. 00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:53.599 Yeah, and some Texas is a lot different than a thousand percent. 00:35:53.760 --> 00:36:06.079 Um, but what it does say is that there has to be a clear path to care on the mental health side, and so that could be hey, you all have access to a provider at this practice in town or whatever. 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:10.480 The tricky piece is they say access to mental health services. 00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:17.599 That doesn't necessarily mean that those mental health providers all have the training and expertise like I have, right? 00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:22.880 That understanding of the sport experience and the college athlete experience. 00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:33.039 The classic thing that you hear from athletes is I went to the counseling center and you get any clinician that doesn't know the difference between a basketball and a football. 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:38.000 And the student athlete is sharing with them, hey, here's my schedule, this is what's going on, this is what I have going on tomorrow. 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:44.320 We're traveling here, we're doing this, we're doing that, my coach said this, and the clinicians can't handle what's coming at them. 00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:47.760 And they say, Well, can you just not go to practice today? 00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:51.519 And the students like, are okay, bye, right? 00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:53.199 And so the trust is completely broken. 00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:55.360 Right. 00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:09.119 It's like, did you not just hear what I said to you about how I'm concerned about performing and I'm a starter and I'm this and that, you know, like and so that cultural competency in this world is so important, and that's not what the guidelines say. 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:10.079 Right, right. 00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:15.360 So yeah, great because it kind of pivots to the next part of the conversation that I wanted to have. 00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:30.000 And I know we talked about college athletics, which some of it kind of you know lean like leans into this part, but I guess for you in your experience, there is like mental health services for the normal everyday individual versus uh the athlete. 00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:45.679 So where like what differs between one and the other uh and how you would either treat or you know, like work around that with the with someone you're coming to see, you know, because I I'm assuming, I guess I don't mean to assume, you might have worked with both populations at some point. 00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:46.159 Yep. 00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:48.000 Uh so how is it different? 00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:49.440 How does it differ between the two? 00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:56.480 I'm laughing inside because one of my um colleagues says that sports psychologists are a different breed. 00:37:56.559 --> 00:37:57.599 She's like, y'all are weird. 00:37:57.679 --> 00:37:59.360 And I'm like, y'all are weird. 00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:13.679 And I just think, I mean, you know the experience of being an athlete and the drive and the dedication and the just zeroing into your craft and the like we will plow through a wall for the thing that matters to us. 00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:21.840 And that's not the majority of your like clinical providers, you know. 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:26.719 Um, I once had a friend say to me, like, what are you like as a therapist? 00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:27.920 And I'm like, what do you mean? 00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:29.519 Because I am intense, right? 00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:41.119 And um, and so I think there's also that idea of uh like more quiet and reserved and like really soft, and that has its place and it works for some people. 00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:46.239 Um, so I would say one thing I think is different is our our orientation just to the world. 00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:58.800 Um, but from a from a theoretical standpoint, the clinician like goes with what makes the most sense with them from a theoretical standpoint, right? 00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:02.400 So how do I explain this in like sports terms? 00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:08.960 Um you know, like okay, basketball, right? 00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:15.760 You're gonna have a system for your offense, and everything is gonna run through that system. 00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:22.880 And you might have a player that comes in who's never been in that system before, and they're gonna have to friggin' figure it out. 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:28.800 And some people aren't ever gonna fit, and so then they may like leave the team or get traded or whatever. 00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:35.039 So if you think about from

a from a clinical standpoint, we all have our system that we run through. 00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:39.679 You can run any client through your theory. 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:44.159 You know, there's the how we understand them, and then there's the what we do in the room. 00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:51.840 And so I pull from many different theories in the room, but my guiding framework is is what it is. 00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:56.159 Um, and so that's how I understand the athlete, which is then gonna inform what I do in the room. 00:39:56.400 --> 00:40:03.119 That's the same for somebody who works with a general clinical population, um, just a sorry, a non-athlete population. 00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:09.360 So I think from the work that I do, it's super dynamic. 00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:13.519 And I think not if there are any psychologists listening, I don't mean psychodynamic. 00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:16.000 I mean like dynamic in the sense of like we're moving, right? 00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:17.280 And we're going quick. 00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:28.880 And um what's different, what I'd noticed from going from working with a general student population to an athlete population is they're they're thirsty and they want change. 00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:40.320 And if they're making the step to come through the door, they are willing to do what you ask them to do because they also are used to running through drills, learning a skill, getting a critique, making an adjustment, and getting better. 00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:44.639 So the same thing tends to show up in the therapy space, which is really freaking cool. 00:40:44.880 --> 00:41:10.559 I'm glad you said that because I I had this preconceived kind of notion about what I thought it was like with athletes in that sense, and it kind of is what you echo because athletes are so used to being like drilled and coached that if they had that trust level with someone in, you know, the mental health space, I feel like they would be more receptive to whatever you're telling them, you know, as far as guidance or just you know, practical practices to go about their day-to-day lives and stuff like that. 00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:22.880 I think that it it can connect with them, um, which is why I I kind of tie that to what I said earlier about, you know, some being reluctant, because I think that with the way athletes are wired, which is very different than you know, the everyday person. 00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:23.199 Sure. 00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:32.559 You know, not to shade anyone, but it's just a different experience when you have to do things for your survival, you know, on the team or your own personal goals and stuff like that. 00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:44.400 So I I think that me now in everyday life, still looking at most things around me as an athlete, I I I often like have to pull myself out of that to be like, hey, like so-and-so isn't thinking like that. 00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:56.960 So, you know, and then sometimes it comes to my competitive side of things with like the slightest thing can I can take it, like the Michael Jordan moment to where I took, you know, I took that, I took offense to that, and it drove me to, you know, want to compete in that way. 00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:04.639 So I often have to pull myself back and you know come off the reins as a competitor sometimes, just because I know, like you said, it's the it's not the same experience. 00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:13.840 And the things that I feel super, super passionate about, goal-wise or just like what I want to achieve, uh, may not be what someone else, you know, looks at in that way. 00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:37.519 Um, and kind of goes along with one of the other things that I saw that you have, you know, done in your life or something that you were definitely into and promoting uh when on your podcast, which I did listen to a couple episodes about that, uh, but I want you to kind of touch on the high performance coaching side of you know what you do and how that kind of uh works in, I guess, what you're doing now. 00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:44.000 Um, but also I guess do you offer those services to other people outside of just the athletes at your University of Delaware, correct? 00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:44.800 Like the hot problem. 00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:46.000 Yeah, I mean, that's the goal. 00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:47.119 That's the goal, right? 00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:48.320 Okay, gotcha, gotcha. 00:42:48.639 --> 00:43:06.800 That's something that um, yeah, I'm definitely looking into to offering because one of the things that um is really important to me is that for women particularly, that we don't hold ourselves back just because we see somebody else doing something, right? 00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:13.039 And like I see too many people, too many women who have a dream and they're like, but I can't, right? 00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.039 They're holding themselves back in some way. 00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:24.800 And I feel like I can really connect with those women and help them make adjustments in their life with what I teach athletes, right? 00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.360 Because life is a performance domain. 00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:35.840 And so it really is just understanding where am I performing and shifting the lingo from the field to the kitchen, right? 00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:48.400 From the what's going on with your teammates to what's going on with your kids, and really helping people get really clear on this is what I want to do with my life, and then helping them overcome the barriers that are keeping them from starting. 00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:51.360 Life what life is a performance domain. 00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:58.559 That's uh yeah, I like that, you know, as someone who again kind of looks at everything as a competition, but yeah. 00:43:58.800 --> 00:43:59.280 Yep, yep. 00:43:59.440 --> 00:43:59.599 Yeah. 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:08.239 Um so with that you said there was one quote that you had, uh

touching on the you know what you just said about coaching women in that way. 00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:13.280 It was uh quiet women are always well, I forget the exact quote that you had. 00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:22.880 The one on your most second most recent episode, it was quiet women are are always something about them achieving high-level things in their life. 00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:24.480 I forget exactly what the quote was. 00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:25.519 Gosh, I don't know. 00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:29.360 I feel like there are quotables all the time, and it just comes off the top of my head. 00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:30.239 Okay, yeah. 00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:37.519 You said something that was uh about how quiet women don't achieve much in their life, or and something about being a disruptor, basically. 00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:43.920 Uh, and how that basically is something that propels you towards whatever your goal or your, you know, your level of success is. 00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:48.000 And it kind of connected with me because I consider myself that kind of person, a disruptor. 00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:48.960 Disruptor, yeah. 00:44:49.039 --> 00:45:08.960 Yeah, and I do think that people who are high performers have to kind of be like that, i.e., you know, the Kobe Bryant two we have up there on the wall, like he was a person who just literally, whatever goal he had in mind was just I'm willing to do whatever it is to achieve it, whether it be yelling at my front office and saying I want to be traded to then make them make a better decision to give bring me better players so I can have a chance to compete. 00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:14.320 So I just believe uh being a disruptor is like part of my purpose. 00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:18.400 Yeah, uh, so it was Wait, was it Quiet Women Rarely Make History? 00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:19.280 Yes, is that what it was? 00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:23.039 Yes, yes, it's Quiet Women Rarely Make History, yeah, is what you is what it was. 00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:24.960 And I was like, that is not a me quote. 00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:26.400 That is like on bumper stickers. 00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:27.440 Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:28.960 So wherever it was from, I heard it. 00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:31.280 I was like, yeah, that you know, that that's a good one. 00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:34.400 And definitely if you're coaching women in that way, then yeah, 100%. 00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:49.760 Um uh so with that, I wanted to keep the conversation around, I guess, sports and mental health and uh athletics, you know, and how it plays into the everyday life of like people who used to be in athletics, which were kind of you know echoed without what I'm saying. 00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:53.760 Have you dealt with any athletes in transition? 00:45:54.000 --> 00:46:00.800 You know, from like I'm an athlete now to maybe I'm gonna be a senior and I'm not gonna continue to play sports anymore. 00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:03.440 What are the

next stages or steps in my life look like? 00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:06.880 Uh have you had any people that you've serviced in that way? 00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:08.079 Oh yeah, yeah. 00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:12.159 And then the people who've had either a season or a career-ending injury, right? 00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:17.760 Like what is like one minute you're playing and literally the next you're not, uh you're facing a major surgery. 00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:21.119 I mean, think about the number of people who've who've torn their ACL, right? 00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:24.320 I mean, that ends your season for at least a year, right? 00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:38.400 And um yeah, I think it's really it's so complicated because we're all uh let me not say complicated, um complex and it has to do like each person's journey is gonna be different. 00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:47.199 And I think the thing with athletes is these are the moments when they just want me to tell them what to do, like give me the playbook, tell me the play, I'm gonna run it. 00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:50.239 And sometimes I'm like, now the play is your feeling. 00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:52.400 And they're like, Doc, what are you talking about? 00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:53.199 Like, what's that? 00:46:53.440 --> 00:47:01.599 And sometimes it's really sitting in it and getting quiet and going internally to find out like what's there that I haven't been attending to, right? 00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:14.400 Because an injury or a break from sport or just the the natural progression graduating out is that opportunity to get really quiet and get back inside and say, Hey, what's there that maybe I haven't been attending to? 00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:21.119 Where's where's a part of me that maybe like I put to the side because I've given so much focus to sport? 00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:31.360 Maybe there's an artistic side in there and really trying to honor the athlete and whatever the transition is and like grieve that. 00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:35.440 And because it really is, I mean, it it is the loss of a relationship. 00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:36.960 And I talk to the athletes about that. 00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:43.280 Like, you've been in a relationship with this sport for nearly your entire life, and so that relationship is shifting. 00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:44.960 Doesn't mean that it has to end. 00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:46.800 Like, do you want it still in your life? 00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:48.239 Could you coach? 00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:54.800 Could you, you know, how could you stay in relationship with the sport differently than playing it? 00:47:54.880 --> 00:48:00.559 And sometimes they look at me like I have six heads, and then three weeks later they'll come back and they'll be like, That thing you said, that relationship. 00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.800 Yeah, here's what I'm thinking now. 00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:04.079 Yeah, for sure. 00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:09.599 As someone who's been there, you know, personally, it's you know, one of the most trying times you can go through as an athlete. 00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:12.559 You know, absolutely my career ended by choice, I would say. 00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:17.760 You know, I was you know lucky enough to walk out on my own terms, but it doesn't make it any easier, right? 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:24.480 You know, and the the way you just said it is like you've been in a relationship with this, you know, so it is kind of like grieving something when you're done. 00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:31.679 Like I never even looked at it in that lens, and this is now 2019 was when I left as 2026, almost 2027. 00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:48.559 So I've had a lot of time to process a lot of the things I went through as an athlete, just through my own, you know, I like to be a person who I try to pride myself on being self-aware, you know, um through therapy, like I mentioned a little bit before, but I'm also a big advocate advocate for meditation. 00:48:48.639 --> 00:48:50.400 Um, so it's one of my practices. 00:48:50.480 --> 00:49:00.480 Uh, and it goes along with uh, you know, something that you put out there um to your listeners, the the three practices, the spiritual, physical, and uh what was the third one to start your day? 00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:03.199 Uh it was spiritual, physical, and mental. 00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:13.360 So for me, the meditation kind of is like the mental and the spiritual part, uh, just because I believe it offers me a space to kind of sit with my feelings and really process what's important to me. 00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:13.840 Absolutely. 00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:19.679 Um, and it definitely helped me through my transition from athletics to being an everyday person. 00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:32.960 Because when I came home, and people like, you know, they know this on this podcast, when I came home, uh, I felt like I was getting into a new life uh with less experience than everybody else who was my age, you know. 00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:47.519 And getting into the training space and the fitness space, uh, when I did initially come home and want to get into where I was working last as like a side gig, a side job, I was looking around and like everyone was 10 years younger than me, but knew like three to four times more than me. 00:49:47.679 --> 00:50:08.559 And that put me in a very like odd space because it it made me question like, did I waste a lot of time doing what I was doing before to then walk away from it mid-30s and then now have to figure out the rest of my life in front of me uh while still again grieving the fact that I'm stepping away from something that was such a big part of my core and still is to this day. 00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:12.239 So, you know, just a very interesting time in my life. 00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:21.840 Uh, and I do believe that a lot of athletes can go through those times and not have the right support or right mentality, you know, because I either believe you have the right mentality

to get through it, or you need support to get through it. 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:22.239 Absolutely. 00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:28.800 Um, and then you see situations where like substance abuse is a thing, or you know, athletes who've been in all kinds of crazy situations. 00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:43.519 Uh I'm not sure if you saw recently um Kyle Singler from Duke when he was he was uh I came up, he was after my era, but was seen online, you know, making comments about his relationship with Coach K and stuff not looking very well put together. 00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:46.719 So it's caused a lot of people to worry about where his mental health is at. 00:50:46.880 --> 00:51:01.360 And you know, situations like that always like hit me like at home, hit me like really, really close to home just because like I feel I did pretty well in my transition, and then to see the other side of it is a little, you know, it's a it's a little sad for some guys, you know. 00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:02.079 Absolutely. 00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:11.440 So I think the one thing that sport doesn't always do a great job at is showing the translatable skills, right? 00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:17.199 Because you're so focused in on your sport, the skills that are needed for your sport, the scouting. 00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:26.639 But then if you pan back, you look at how did you navigate that system, especially if you're playing a team sport and you've got new teammates every year, right? 00:51:26.719 --> 00:51:28.239 Like you know how to be a part of a team. 00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:30.800 You probably stepped into leadership roles. 00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:48.159 And so where, yeah, from the fitness sense in the business standpoint, you might be 10 years behind or you know, they're younger, but you have all of this experience of being in a system and pushing yourself to the limit and succeeding at a high level when you do that facing adversity. 00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:52.400 That, like, you know, if this person misses a sale, they might crumble. 00:51:52.880 --> 00:52:11.599 And so I think we miss teaching athletes how, yeah, like you're not on a basketball court, but look at all of this and what made you who you are, and how the people that you're in the business world with or in the fitness world with, they might not have that and how it puts you to an advantage. 00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:12.639 Yeah, for sure. 00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:16.400 And I pretty much said this at one point or another through my career. 00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:22.960 And I said it a not so nice way, but I said like people are soft when they get when we get into the normal work world. 00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:28.800 It's like they complain about the littlest things, they are willing to quit over the smallest things or the smallest. 00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:33.760 And I understand everyone's feelings are valid, but what the for perspective also matters, you know. 00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:44.239 So for me, having to run until I literally couldn't run anymore, and then I'm collapsing on the ground changes my like my lens when it looks at something like all right, now you gotta get up at 4 a.m. 00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:45.920 for like three, four days in a row. 00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:47.360 You know, how do you handle that? 00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:51.360 Uh, this is more so the fitness space, just because we do have to wake up that early. 00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:52.639 Yeah. 00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:53.280 Right, right, right. 00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:55.679 For the early morning crowd and no that that crew. 00:52:55.760 --> 00:53:00.960 But you know, just even other things like that, where like when your boss is yelling at you or super critical or stuff like that. 00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:18.800 So how we deal with that in sport and how it prepares you to get over those kind of things in life is something that is like you take that to the bank because you're not gonna really get those experiences anywhere else, uh, but going through like the rigors and the years and years of just being and put in those kind of environments and those situations. 00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:25.440 So um, I've said this before and I say it again, like it does make you better than, you know, not better than I would say. 00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:30.880 It does make you more prepared for the adversity and things like that in everyday life than certain people who don't go through those things. 00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:37.360 So definitely something to highlight and definitely something to lean into as an athlete who is transitioning into just whatever, you know. 00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:41.760 But I think finding the thing that you want to do is the hardest thing for athletes at that point. 00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:42.000 Sure. 00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:47.440 Um, and definitely having people to support you on the mental health side can be a very, very big help. 00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:53.599 And, you know, I I I appreciate people like you to kind of share that messaging because, you know, it it's tough, you know. 00:53:53.679 --> 00:54:00.880 And I know that athletes get looked at oftentimes like we just can, like you said, run through a wall, literally, and uh, you know, you got this, you'll be all right. 00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:07.599 But you know, the stuff that goes on in our heads is often where people don't really put themselves in those shoes because they haven't been through it. 00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:08.480 Yeah, yeah. 00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:12.559 And the one thing is is we all have mental health 247, 365. 00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:19.679 It's just a matter of where are we falling on the continuum from healthy to like unhealthy at any given point in our life, right? 00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:23.599 So there are some people who are like, Oh, I don't have mental health, and I'm like, Well, you're breathing, you do. 00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:26.000 Like you have a brain, yes, you have mental health. 00:54:26.159 -->

00:54:31.679 You just may be on that more healthy side, you're able to cope with the adversities that come, you know, come at you. 00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:35.840 And so when I say that into a room of coaches, and I'm like, all of you have mental health. 00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:37.199 And they look at me like I have six heads. 00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:39.679 I'm like, trust me, you do. 00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:42.079 Solid, solid. 00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:50.559 Um, so outside of your career currently, um, you are uh working on a book still, or you know, what is the process? 00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:51.920 Like, how is that going? 00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:53.840 Yeah, um, like tell me about it. 00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:56.719 Oh my gosh, writing a book is a whole thing. 00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:57.760 It's a whole thing. 00:54:57.920 --> 00:55:01.039 Yeah, I think I started writing it maybe three years ago. 00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:02.559 Okay, yeah. 00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:08.880 And um, well, right now one of my colleagues is has offered to edit it for me. 00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:14.159 And so I like did a little bit of a sprint because then his wife had a baby. 00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:20.880 And so I was like, I'm gonna get this to you, and then you read it, edit it, you know, whatever, and get it to me when you can. 00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:25.360 So um, yeah, I mean, it really I have always wanted to write a book. 00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:29.599 And I have a friend who writes and had a publishing house at one point. 00:55:29.679 --> 00:55:35.199 I'm not sure if she's still doing it, but um, she was like, You have a book in you, and I'm like, I don't know what I want to write about. 00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:39.920 And so um we did some accountability calls just to like sit and write together. 00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:58.480 And yeah, it was like three or so odd years ago, I was on a podcast interview with one of my other friends, and she like I have this theory that I teach, and she was asking me questions about it, and it got me thinking about it in ways that I hadn't before, and I was like, the book. 00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:05.039 And I thought, like, okay, this book would be a pamphlet because I could literally tell you what it's all about in like three sentences. 00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:06.639 I'm like, how am I gonna write a whole book? 00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:08.559 And now there's a whole book about it. 00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:27.679 And so um, yeah, it's like gone through iterations and I sat down to write it basically like I was giving the um giving the talk to uh a team and I just wrote it just like I would say the things to them just to get it on paper and then would play around with it and it's like, oh, I can share a story here and I could share a story here. 00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:35.119 Oh, I don't have time in a one-hour workshop to like delve into this piece, so let me unfold that into like two chapters in the book. 00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:49.920 And um, you know, I went through um the last two years have been a little bit stressful, and so it was I didn't have as much emotional and cognitive space to to like go to work and then come home and edit a book. 00:56:50.000 --> 00:57:06.639 I just didn't have any brain cells left at the end of the day, and so it took a a a lot of time, but um yeah, now it's in my buddy's hands and I'm gonna see what he has to say, and um, then we'll shake it around, put some final edits on it, and hopefully it'll get out in the world in the next like six to eight months. 00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:07.360 Nice. 00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:13.360 Yeah, definitely we'll be checking for that when it when it comes out, and you know, best of luck on the rest of the way with that process. 00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:13.920 Thanks. 00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:14.639 It is wild. 00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:20.639 It is I I have a few author friends, so they've kind of told me, you know, a little bit about what it's like to write a book. 00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:28.000 Uh they've also challenged me to get into writing at some point because I was also told in not the same exact words, but that I have a book in me. 00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:28.400 Yeah, yeah. 00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:33.199 Um, and I've thought about it, but again, there's just the process seems kind of daunting. 00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:42.559 And uh now I've I've been challenged by one of my author friends to to start writing some stuff down as far as what the vision for it could be. 00:57:42.639 --> 00:57:45.599 Uh so yeah, I might be actually reaching out for some help with that. 00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:46.159 Seriously. 00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:47.920 As someone who's been through the process. 00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:59.280 Yeah, I mean, and honestly, some of what I have found is was helpful was just talking into the mic and getting the thoughts out and then put it in, let Chat GBT transcribe it for you, right? 00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:00.239 Or or whatever, right? 00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:07.599 Like uh because it's it's your there's something different that when we're we process differently, when it comes out of our mouth, when it comes out of our fingers. 00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:25.840 And so um, yeah, you just gotta find like what's most comfortable for you to get your words out authentically and then be committed to a shitty first draft and have some people in your corner who can read it and like make it be a book. 00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:31.280 I was told that exact same thing, like be prepared for the first draft of it to be terrible because that's just what it's gonna be. 00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:32.559 Yeah, yeah. 00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:33.840 So we'll see. 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:34.400 We'll see. 00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:44.400 I have been pushed to do so, um, but I also then run a business, so now it's like trying to figure out where I can squeeze in time to then add that to my schedule. 00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:49.280 So yeah, but I I do feel like

it could be something that I would want to do at some point in my life. 00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:54.880 But absolutely, you know, God willing, I'm here for a long time and can fulfill that vision at some point later on. 00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:55.599 But there you go. 00:58:55.760 --> 00:58:56.400 Yeah, for sure. 00:58:56.639 --> 00:58:57.039 Love it. 00:58:57.199 --> 00:58:58.559 Um, so podcasting. 00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:05.840 Um now that we are already on my podcast, uh looking ahead, looking back, excuse me, when I was looking into you before ahead of time. 00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:07.440 I didn't realize you had a podcast. 00:59:07.840 --> 00:59:11.119 Um, and then did a little bit of wormhole and just listened to a few of the episodes. 00:59:11.360 --> 00:59:13.360 Your first episode and then the last few that you did. 00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:18.000 I feel like you know what they say, you should read the first and the last page of the book kind of kind of thing. 00:59:18.079 --> 00:59:21.440 So yeah, so you got the first brand and then the second brand. 00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:22.079 Right, right. 00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:24.480 So, you know, tell me about that for yourself. 00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:31.840 Um and uh one, I guess, how you started that, because you have way more episodes than I have at this point in my life. 00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:43.519 Uh so it's always encouraging to see, and you were podcasting since 2021, uh, back when many people weren't, or and the industry kind of started to take off a little bit, but now you know everyone has a mic and a a podcast. 00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:45.679 So I feel like a lot more watered down. 00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:48.719 Uh, but when you started, like what was that for you? 00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:52.079 And you know, I guess how did it fulfill you as a person? 00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:53.119 Yeah, yeah. 00:59:53.360 --> 01:00:04.480 So I I think I've always had this knowing of like I want to reach more people, and I just didn't know what that meant or in what ways. 01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:12.800 And I think in some ways, maybe even just how women are socialized, it was it felt kind of weird to say, like, I just want to reach people. 01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:13.679 And I'm like, with what? 01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:16.719 I don't, I don't know, but it's just always been that thing inside. 01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:26.239 And so um I have been an avid like consumer of podcasts for I don't gosh, since like 2015. 01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:28.639 And I've always just been like, this is so cool. 01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:38.480 And I love just listening to people sit down and like talk about TV shows or have really in-depth conversations, or someone's out there teaching you something. 01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:56.719 And so um there was a woman in this like the social media sphere that I was kind of living in at the time, and she had launched a podcast and then had like a course where she would get you through idea to launch in, I think we did it in like two months, three months, or something like that. 01:00:56.960 --> 01:01:04.559 And so it was nice because I was in this cohort of other women and we had were able to bounce ideas off and then like do guest trading and all of that. 01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:06.320 And so it started off. 01:01:06.400 --> 01:01:14.159 Um, it was initially called Beyond the Couch, um, mental health conversations without the psycho babble, because I don't like to psycho babble whatsoever. 01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:18.079 Um and so it started out in that realm. 01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:23.119 And then um there was something about the title. 01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:26.800 I just felt too constricted around like the mental health pieces. 01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:35.679 And I'm funny in that I don't always want my career to and like my training to be what I do in all facets of my life. 01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:38.320 Like it is a part of me, it will always be a part of me. 01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:40.239 It's an identity, it's how I move through the world. 01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:41.920 But like, I don't know. 01:01:42.079 --> 01:01:43.760 I just didn't want it to be like that anymore. 01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:46.960 And so then I rebranded it to beyond your limits. 01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:47.360 Yes. 01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:58.559 Um, and so that for me felt like I could do a little bit more of that coaching, a little bit more of that teaching, kind of um push the envelope a little bit, challenge people a little bit more. 01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:09.280 Um, and then what I realized when it kind of started to fizzle off is at the point that I started my podcast, I was married, um, but I was miserable. 01:02:09.440 --> 01:02:15.360 I was absolutely miserable in my relationship, and I had lost my voice. 01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:29.760 And the podcast was the place where I ran the show and I could talk about what I wanted to talk about, and there was no the feedback that was coming in about the show was all positive and was all supportive of me. 01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:37.840 And so through that process, I ended up getting divorced and um my ex-wife moved out and all of that great stuff. 01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:52.159 And I was in such a better place, and then I realized like I I don't need the same, like I had my voice back, and I I didn't need the podcast in the same way, right? 01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:53.679 Like it and two things can be true. 01:02:53.840 --> 01:03:03.679 I was still on mission, but then I also wasn't grasping content ideas as quickly as I was before. 01:03:04.159 --> 01:03:06.960 Um and so I was like, I don't want to force it. 01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:18.719 And there would be weeks where I'm like, I'm supposed to drop a podcast tomorrow, and so I'd just get on the mic on a Monday night and just say some stuff into a mic, and I I wasn't fully there. 01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:24.719 And um, and so I wanted it to be authentic, and I was like, I'm just

gonna pause. 01:03:24.800 --> 01:03:27.440 And I didn't like announce a pause, I just like stopped. 01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:32.960 I think I stopped when I was like, hey, we're gonna do this like three episode thing, and I did one of them and then I stopped. 01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:36.000 And I'm like, okay, whatever. 01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:38.320 Um, and everyone keeps asking me, like, are you gonna come back? 01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:39.440 You're gonna come back, you're gonna come back. 01:03:39.519 --> 01:03:41.679 And I'm like, Yeah, you know, like I want to. 01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:51.760 And then life took another turn, and again, that energy and the um just the time and energy that it takes, it wasn't there. 01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:54.559 I just had nothing left in the tank at the end of the day. 01:03:55.039 --> 01:04:00.639 And what I had left, I was putting into other parts of my life that were, you know, unfolding. 01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:07.280 Um, but now I have been like really like thinking about this and journaling about it. 01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:11.760 And the phrase that keeps coming back to me is built for the long haul. 01:04:12.559 --> 01:04:33.920 And so I think that is what I'm gonna rebrand and come back with is built for the long haul because I think it holds together what I was wanting to do with Beyond Your Limits and like the heart of um Beyond the Couch because it is the mental health, but it is the high performance. 01:04:34.239 --> 01:04:41.599 And really looking at like I told you before, it took me 15 years from when I learned about the field to get into the field. 01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:46.159 I trained in martial arts for what took five years to get a black belt. 01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:56.559 And I feel like we're in a time that, you know, if you and I were like, hey, we're hungry, we could literally put in an order and the food would be here by the time we're done recording. 01:04:56.719 --> 01:05:04.800 Or I just ordered some stuff off of Amazon because I'm gonna reorganize a room because my mom's moving in and like, you know, and it's gonna be here tomorrow. 01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:13.760 And we just don't have to wait and simmer and wrestle and grow in the same ways that we did in the 90s, you know? 01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:25.199 And so I really want to share that story and bring people on who can talk about like, hey, yeah, you see this success that I'm having now, but what was the 10 years before it? 01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:29.519 And what's what's behind the curtain that you don't get to see? 01:05:29.840 --> 01:05:36.559 And what like what is it that really made us and those pieces of what's really beautiful about people's stories? 01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:41.840 Well, I I want to encourage you and and maybe even challenge you to get that going. 01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:50.800 Cause you know, uh my thing when I started to dive into your episodes, again, the last two episodes I listened to, when I finished the last one, I was like, hey, like, where was the next one? 01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:51.920 Where's the next? 01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:57.280 Yeah, because you were presenting these skills and these pieces, and I'm like, this is like valuable shit, you know. 01:05:57.440 --> 01:05:59.760 And then uh it just wasn't I'm like, I wouldn't. 01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:03.280 It's like the cliffhanger that you never get to see the next episode. 01:06:03.519 --> 01:06:20.719 But yeah, and I understand that completely about having the will to do it because it is like, even though, and if you record by yourself, then even more so, like you would think that it's not an exchange of energy, but it literally is you giving your energy to however many people are gonna consume it. 01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:28.719 You know, so you have to be in the right mind space and you have to be in the right, like I guess, spiritual space to kind of do it, or else it's not gonna come out right. 01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:33.519 And the the feeling forced thing is part of you know the the battle that you have internally. 01:06:33.599 --> 01:06:45.039 And I've taken many breaks, not as long as where you you have, but you know, I've had last before I kind of started off again, it was like months, so I want to say maybe four or five months before I got back to it. 01:06:45.119 --> 01:07:02.559 And I was like, listen, like something's not sitting right with feeling like I need to record right now because one, I was in a point of like really trying to figure out where and when I was gonna be able to start my business uh after leaving my last career, quitting my job and going into full-time entrepreneurialism was a whole like task in itself. 01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:10.559 So having to take on that challenge put me in a space where like I can't force myself to record every week just because I don't feel like I have it, you know. 01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:21.199 And what you decide to give people, how you structure your episodes, like the the messaging that you want to put out, it has to come from a place to where it's fulfilling you to do it, or else it just feels like a job. 01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:33.599 And you know, uh, and I know there are people that do podcasts to get paid and hopefully would love to monetize at some point myself, but I don't want creating content to feel like a job because then it's not coming from as true a sense of creativity. 01:07:33.679 --> 01:07:34.639 It's like I have to do this. 01:07:34.719 --> 01:07:38.079 So yeah, and it you can feel it on the other side of the mic, right? 01:07:38.239 --> 01:07:41.280 When it's being forced, and that just doesn't feel good too. 01:07:41.440 --> 01:07:41.679 For sure. 01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:51.039 I'm only so good at hiding, and I've had episodes sometimes where I tell people, listen, listen, I'm here for a good time, not a long time, because I got about 35 minutes of content and then I'm out because I can't. 01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:58.719 I

got this going on in my life, so it's something that I have to just be very, you know, conscious and self-aware of with when you record and stuff. 01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:04.239 And I feel like I've been in a good groove and a good space recently, and you know, want to definitely keep the train going as far as that goes. 01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:05.920 What's been helping you? 01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:17.760 Um, I would say getting my business open was a big, big help because I kind of had to promote leading into the business opening, and it's something I talk about often on the podcast. 01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:27.359 Yeah, uh, so that was helpful in me feeling like I needed to record again, but also wanted to because it was something that was exciting in my life that was like it's a big, like this is a big moment for me. 01:08:27.439 --> 01:08:27.680 Absolutely. 01:08:27.920 --> 01:08:31.039 Uh, I wanted to share it with you know the people that support and listen to the podcast. 01:08:31.359 --> 01:08:41.840 Uh but since then I do feel like, again, being an athlete and goal-driven, it's like I'm challenging myself to make sure that I'm not falling off and staying consistent with it. 01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:42.159 Sure. 01:08:42.319 --> 01:08:50.000 Uh, just because I know in the industry of podcasting, like with lack of consistency, that's where like the ebbs and flows really, really go up and down. 01:08:50.079 --> 01:09:00.960 So I've had points where I've been, I've done it for like two weeks, and then you know, I'll take like three weeks off and then you know, come back for a month straight, and you know, kind of like, all right, well, now I need another two weeks off. 01:09:01.119 --> 01:09:19.840 But finding things to keep myself like going in this way, whether it be social media and current events kind of things, or you know, just delivering messages off of what I'm going through in my own journeys as a you know athlete who to then trainer to then entrepreneur. 01:09:19.920 --> 01:09:27.359 Like, you know, I I give my listeners every part of my life just because one of my monikers, like, I'm a living example of the things to do and not to do. 01:09:27.439 --> 01:09:38.239 So if I can bump my head a million times for you to not bump your head as many times as I did, I want to share those experiences with people because I think my purpose is in, you know, definitely in what I offer now as a trainer. 01:09:38.479 --> 01:09:44.479 You know, my purpose is in helping people to grow in fitness and young athletes to grow to the next level of their athletic careers. 01:09:44.640 --> 01:09:53.199 But, you know, in my experience, I've always felt that, you know, it is it's a shame that you go through things and then don't put it out there. 01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:58.880 Uh like one of my favorite quotes in life is for in vain you have acquired wisdom if you do not impart it to others. 01:09:59.039 --> 01:10:12.880 So for me, like it is like if you're going

through a bunch of stuff in your life that could either help someone get through their journey, motivate someone to get into their journey, or just you know, anything in between that, like you're kind of selling yourself short by not putting it out there, you know. 01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:17.920 And I know that comes with a lot of self-doubt and you know, what if it's gonna connect with people, what if it's not. 01:10:18.079 --> 01:10:25.600 So at this point, I'm pretty much just to the space, like within my own like confidence level, with it's like, hey, bro, just put it out, you know, yeah and see what happens. 01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:27.359 And I do get good feedback from it. 01:10:27.439 --> 01:10:48.479 And, you know, the people that are watching and listening, they've said, like you said before, positive things about, you know, what I'm giving them, or again, just the ability to execute what I'm doing on the level that I am as consistently as I am, is something that I kind of take to the bank because it's kind of motivating because I know that it's hard to do what I'm doing, and I never lean away from like doing the hard things just because they're hard. 01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:49.359 You know, yeah, yeah. 01:10:49.520 --> 01:10:51.760 I mean, and look at this place, you're an all-in guy. 01:10:51.920 --> 01:10:53.760 Yeah, and I appreciate that. 01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:54.319 Yeah. 01:10:54.560 --> 01:11:05.439 I think you know, uh I appreciate you sharing because it's it's resonating with me a lot and it's like giving me like I'm excited and energized each time I think about relaunching my podcast. 01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:11.680 And I think part of what I have I have learned that the way that I think is very different. 01:11:12.319 --> 01:11:20.960 And so the things to me that are like, yeah, doesn't everybody know this are in fact the pieces that I need to share. 01:11:21.119 --> 01:11:29.760 And so I think some of what I've struggled with is like I learned a lot getting a black belt in karate in in elementary school. 01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:38.079 And so I was so young that the I wasn't necessarily having aha moments, it was just how my life was running. 01:11:38.239 --> 01:11:46.159 But now I look back and I realize oh, that piece has showed up consistently over time and has been the building blocks. 01:11:46.239 --> 01:11:58.399 And so I'm like, that's and I think that's where the built for the long haul comes from, is because so much of why I've been able to do what I do now was uh learned in that karate studio. 01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:01.119 And that's the stuff I need to be sharing. 01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:03.520 And I think there's like 10 years of content right there, you know. 01:12:04.079 --> 01:12:04.239 Sure. 01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:06.079 Share it, definitely, you know, yeah. 01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:15.920 And like you said, the stuff that you like you don't realize what people actually need, you know, from you unless you, you know, unless someone puts it out there, and then you'll connect with the people that you can. 01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:24.079 And I always tell myself, not for everybody, but the ones that you can really connect with are the ones that are gonna be with you for the long haul, pun intended. 01:12:24.479 --> 01:12:36.800 Yeah, and I heard somebody say, like, the point of a podcast or the point of putting whatever you're gonna put out in the world is to like hard repel people and hard like bring them in because you don't want those people in your orbit. 01:12:36.880 --> 01:12:40.399 And so that's why it's like stand for something, stand on something. 01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:53.119 And you know, like I use the F-word a lot, it's in the title of my book, and so like people will stop listening to me because I say the F word too many times, and I'm like, okay, you're not my people, and I need to be okay with that. 01:12:53.359 --> 01:12:59.920 100%, you know, and I'm I said it last week um on a post that I made like circle got smaller, but goals got bigger. 01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:01.359 So I love love. 01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:10.319 In that kind of way, it is a thing to invite the people that can appreciate your space into that space, and then the ones that aren't, like, listen, like fuck off. 01:13:10.399 --> 01:13:12.159 Like, literally, like this isn't for you. 01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:20.079 Yeah, so that's okay because there's something out there that might be for you, or maybe you're not a podcast person, or just maybe you like to consume different things in your life, and that's okay. 01:13:20.159 --> 01:13:31.439 But you know, the ones that are here for the things that I offer and the things that I put out there are the ones that really, really like they, they, they keep me going in a way that like makes me feel even more energized to continue the process. 01:13:31.520 --> 01:13:36.079 So yeah, you know, I think that has been super, super helpful to me to go back to your original question. 01:13:36.159 --> 01:13:41.920 It's just finding that groove, you know, and getting in that like kind of flow state to where every week you know what's gonna happen. 01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:43.279 I set my time to record. 01:13:43.359 --> 01:13:46.720 Like, even today, we're recording outside of my normal uh recording space. 01:13:46.800 --> 01:13:51.760 But when we get to my normal day this week, I'm gonna record something just because I want to stay in that mode. 01:13:52.000 --> 01:14:02.479 And then for me, it's a lot of it is just like getting reps too, because as an athlete, I'm used to shooting the ball until I can make a certain percentage, or you know, working on this skill until I can feel like I mastered it. 01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:09.039 So right now it's in a point where I know how to make all this come together and do it as well as I can right now. 01:14:09.119 --> 01:14:10.399 But how can I make it better? 01:14:10.560 --> 01:14:20.800 And the only way to make

it better is to go through the little steps where you're just fucking up over and over again, or just you know, finding yourself within that space to feel confident in what you deliver uh to the highest level. 01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:32.159 So, you know, I don't even feel like I'm there yet, but I do feel like every time I get behind the mic, like you said, it gives me more opportunity to figure that out and you know, find what that is for me, you know, internally. 01:14:32.239 --> 01:14:36.800 So yeah, this makes me think of here's what you get to do when you have a PhD is you get to quote yourself. 01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:38.960 So what nice all right? 01:14:39.279 --> 01:14:40.640 I do this all the time with my athletes. 01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:42.640 I'll put a quote up on the board and then I'm like Dr. 01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:43.199 Jehu. 01:14:43.760 --> 01:14:44.479 It's so funny. 01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:50.479 But the thing I say is it's the small, unsexy actions done consistently over time that gets you to the big sexy outcome, right? 01:14:50.560 --> 01:14:54.319 And so it's yeah, like you said, it's just putting those reps in and gotta get the reps in. 01:14:54.479 --> 01:15:04.560 Yeah, and not discounting, like I mean, you were telling me you spent a couple of months learning all the ins and outs of this so that you could do it well, right? 01:15:04.640 --> 01:15:14.720 Like all of those little reps and those pieces that the people on the other side don't see like specifically, but they get to experience it through the quality of what you put out. 01:15:14.800 --> 01:15:20.239 And so, and again, that's I think those are the pieces that hold people back is they don't see the behind the scenes. 01:15:20.319 --> 01:15:20.479 Right. 01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:26.000 And so when we can give it to them, that's such a gift because then it helps them see what's possible for them. 01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:28.000 Powerful, powerful for sure. 01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:28.640 Oh my gosh. 01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:33.119 Now I feel like I have to make like a public commitment to like get my podcast back out by the end of the year. 01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:47.119 I wanna I want to challenge you, and in any kind of way that I can be helpful of that, then you know, I I'm willing to be a support system because you know, I'm not saying I'm the biggest guru, I'm not Joe Rogan or any people who are you know doing it to the highest level. 01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:48.479 This is legit. 01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:53.359 Yeah, but I I like I said earlier, I like to call myself the king of being a small time creator. 01:15:53.520 --> 01:16:00.800 So you know, I do it in this space and the ones that really have purpose and really have vision and messages that they want to put out there. 01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:09.279 I challenge those people to do it just because again, you're gonna connect with the people that really, really are supposed to be in that space with you, you know, or along that journey with you. 01:16:09.359 --> 01:16:17.680 So, you know, challenging you, but I'm also down to be helpful in any way I can, you know, if there's anything that you need with having way more episodes than I have in my belt. 01:16:17.840 --> 01:16:20.159 But, you know, maybe it can be an accountability thing for the city. 01:16:20.319 --> 01:16:20.640 I love it. 01:16:20.800 --> 01:16:22.159 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 01:16:22.239 --> 01:16:22.960 Because that's the thing. 01:16:23.039 --> 01:16:29.920 So my mom is moving up here, but her house isn't gonna be ready until like early, like the first of the year. 01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:30.399 Okay. 01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:33.199 But her house in Virginia literally okay. 01:16:33.439 --> 01:16:35.920 This woman was like so afraid that her house wasn't gonna sell. 01:16:36.159 --> 01:16:40.800 She had two days of showings and like offers over asked. 01:16:41.039 --> 01:16:41.359 Okay. 01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:48.159 And so now she's gonna be living with me for like two and a half months in my room that's like my podcasting studio. 01:16:48.399 --> 01:16:53.520 And so in my head, I'm like, okay, I might just like sit on the floor of my closet because I don't do the video side of it. 01:16:53.680 --> 01:17:01.760 And I'm like, where can I just get good audio and just say F it let's rock and just put it start getting the reps in again? 01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:11.840 I mean, hey, if you wanna come and just get your audio in here, listen, I'm gonna make that learning curve a little bit you know, smoother for you to get back into it. 01:17:12.079 --> 01:17:12.399 Thank you. 01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:13.199 I appreciate it. 01:17:13.359 --> 01:17:15.680 But that said, we definitely appreciate you coming. 01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:19.279 So hopefully, watchers, listeners have gotten a positive experience. 01:17:19.439 --> 01:17:20.960 And uh thank you to Dr. 01:17:21.119 --> 01:17:24.159 CJ, Christian J Who for coming and sticking with us today. 01:17:24.239 --> 01:17:31.119 Uh so as always, as we leave you, uh we'll tell you to stay safe mentally, physically, and spiritually in all things in between. 01:17:31.199 --> 01:17:34.560 Uh, until the next go round, but episode number eighty eight with me. 01:17:34.640 --> 01:17:35.279 And uh, Dr. 01:17:35.520 --> 01:17:36.319 CJ is out. 01:17:36.479 --> 01:17:38.000 We'll talk to you in the next go round. 01:17:38.399 --> 01:17:38.960 Peace.