บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Is Modern Parenting Broken?

single gender or income group. The struggle and juggle is real, she said. When they're feeling under pressure themselves, they're less likely to do the sorts of parenting behaviors that we know children need to thrive, so they're more likely to get irritable with children. Former US Urgent General Vivic Murphy recently declared modern parental stress to be an urgent public health issue directly linked to the well being of children and the health of society. 00:06:11 Speaker 2: Kel what did you. 00:06:11 Speaker 1: Think when you heard those stats? 00:06:13 Speaker 2: Well, I think it makes a lot of sense. Like when we talk about stress, and when I talk about well, if I'm going to use myself as an example, when I talk about behaviors that I don't like about myself and things that I don't like about myself as a mother, it's always things in terms of anger, having a short fuse, being impatient, and all of that comes down to stress. Stress about finishing work and which I have to do. I am the primary breadwinner and I am the primary ra It is stressful and that's just the way that things are. And it's fine. But I am always like, I'm always very aware of everything that needs to be done. Yeah, but I do I worry so much about Like, for fox sake, Kelly, just take whenever I do just chill. The difference in lend it's extraordinary. He's not a wingy little shit, He's not someone trying to push my buttons. He's just someone that is going about his day and really enjoying himself and enjoying spending time with me. And that is a little bit soul destroying when you think about it, because I wish that that's a person that I could be all the time. However, it's also not realistic. We live in a cost of living crisis, and I am in a very fortunate position. My mortgage is not that high, Like I only have the one kid, I don't have a lot of financial stress, but it's still there because everything is so fucking expensive. Yet companies are trying to squeeze you so dry because everyone's budgets are being cut. We were talking about that in last week's Peek and Pit episode about like even monetizing this pod. No one has any money, so when you are working, you're working harder than you ever have before for less money. Even we're living in a really shit time. 00:08:13 Speaker 1: Well, I think there's a bit of a question here, right, Are we as parents simply struggling individually or is there just too much expectation these days from families, because when people hear the term burnout, they often picture someone who isn't coping, as we mentioned before, but parents who are burnt out, they're still functioning. They're getting kids to school, they're turning up to work, they're paying bills, they're keeping everything moving, and underneath, they're exhausted. 00:08:41 Speaker 2: They're exhausted, they're not happy, they're probably getting sick a or because their immune system sucks. Like, they're certainly not thriving. They're just surviving. I would survive burnout as perpetually surviving, never thriving well. 00:08:54 Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of people think that exhaustion is simply part of the job of pairing as a modern parent. 00:09:01 Speaker 2: Right, but it shouldn't be really. 00:09:03 Speaker 1: Well, let's just start there, though, because I want to kind of define what Bernart actually looks like. 00:09:08 Speaker 2: Thank you, because I actually wasn't sure. I was like, I feel like I know, but maybe I don't. 00:09:13 Speaker 1: I think it's going to surprise you. When I was looking for a definition and things like that, I came across this really interesting article on parents dot Com and they talked about there being something called depleted mother syndrome, so I'll link the article. In the show notes, they define it as depleted mother syndrome or maternal burnout syndrome is when a parent feels emotionally worn out or overwhelmed by the responsibilities that come with raising kids. While not a recognized medical condition, the term describes a very real experience for many primary caregivers and default parents. They describe it as that feeling of running on empty, where you've given so much of yourself that there's nothing left. It can sneak up on you, so one day you might just realize that you're EXAs alstoed beyond normal tirdness, and things that used to bring you joy feel more like obligations. Kel, is there a time that you can think of when you realize that parenting felt overwhelming rather than you just simply being busy. 00:10:16 Speaker 2: Yes, I don't know if this is the first moment I fully realized it, But it's really really Stunn that stays with you, stays with me, and I just feel so heartbroken for me, but her looking back, because I do want to also tell her that you will learn how to manage so much better over the coming years. There was a night it would have been June June July. It was winter. It was my girlfriend's birthday dinner in the city, and I'd worked all day. Lenny was like, you know, five months old. For five months old, I was planning on doing this dinner, and it was really hard at that time to show up. I was making the best effort that I could, but I had a little baby, I was working full time. I was struggling. Nothing was fitting me at the time. I had no idea what my postpartum style was. We talked about that in another episode and had a good giggle. I'd signed up and so I could borrow three outfits a month. So every month I'd choose three options, I'd pay I think it was one hundred dollars a month, and then they'd get sent to me and I'd send them back. So I had like this suit on. It was kind of ugly looking back on it, but at the time I felt incredible in it. I felt gorgeous, and you know how rare that is in those days. And I'd done my makeup. I was wearing I think I had a pink lip on. I had like a little braid because I hadn't had time to get my hair done and I was already and then shit just hit the fan and I was just so tired and everything went wrong.

But I was just so overwhelmed and so exhausted, and I went out to the car like Luke was like, just go it's fine. I went out to the car, but the dinner had already started, and it said, like, you know, traffic, it's going to take you fifty minutes to get there, And I just burst into tears. Yeah, And I just sat in the car, sobbing, and I just was like, am I ever going to feel on top of things again? Am I ever going to be able to turn up the way that I used to? Am I ever going to feel like myself again? And then I just went back inside sobbing, and Luke was like, what are you doing? And I was like there's no point, like why, I like, by the time I get there, there's just no point, Like I've got to get up early in the morning. I don't want to late night. I'm not going to sleep tonight anyway, because at the time Lenny was it was just one of those moments where I was like, why did I even bother? But the act of trying so hard to make it happen, and then it not happening because of life. I just, yeah, that was definitely goodbyer. Yeah, yeah, that was definitely a moment where I felt so exhausted in every single way. 00:12:56 Speaker 1: Oh God, that little you then as well, I have a. 00:13:00 Speaker 2: Photo of it, because I used to document a lot of like my postpartum, because a lot of people were like, oh, it's so helpful seeing someone else, and I saw I have a photo that I'll share and I just look so sad and cute with my little ruined make up running down my cheeks and my little outfit on and didn't make it to the dinner. Hindsight's a beautiful thing, though, it's it is. 00:13:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to give that person with so much compassion. 00:13:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, which and just saying don't try to do anything. 00:13:31 Speaker 1: Just stay home for twelve months literally. 00:13:35 Speaker 2: Like it's okay, you will get back out there. Yeah, but like if your baby's not sleeping and you're an idiot who's trying to look after a baby full time and work full time, don't. 00:13:44 Speaker 1: Try to do other things. 00:13:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, just it's silly, you, silly billy, what about you. 00:13:50 Speaker 1: I have the most vivid memory of being really pregnant. I was leaving your house. We'd done a full day of records. I had done so many records and the lead up to this across both of the podcasts, and I you know, when you're pregnant, especially at the end, you have so many freaking appointments. I'm going to like my obstetrician, and I'm going to get acupuncture, like all of these things. You know. 00:14:15 Speaker 2: I also were in agony. Oh, you had it so awful, Like the end of your pregnancy was awful. You were so uncomfortable. 00:14:23 Speaker 1: And then add on top of that, managing like a toddler who has just become the most active they have ever been as. 00:14:29 Speaker 2: A little person. I also wasn't really sleeping. 00:14:32 Speaker 1: You know, when you're that big at the end and you're just sleeping, You're getting up to pe a hundred times a night. It's just it's actually fucking making me really sad thinking about that, maybe I don't want a third baby anymore. And so I remember driving home from yours Kellen. At the time, I live further away from you, so it was kind of about a forty minute drive, which I actually loved doing each week because it was like the time where I could actually listen to podcasts and be child different press from the day. Yeah, and because like where I used to live, I never really drove much. So but I remember, for the first time ever really feeling that drive and being like or god, like my ears were ringing, my mouth was really dry, my eyesight was a bit off. I had the craziest headache I had ever had, and I remember it had been building kind of all day, and I've been taking pat at all, which is the only fucking thing you can take when you're pregnant, and it just was not doing anything. It was getting worse and worse and worse. And I had just never, ever, ever in my life felt that exhaustion ever. I mean, I'm sure I felt it in the newborn phase like once Suki was here, but I had never felt that kind of exhaustion because I had never been pregnant before and never not been able to actively rest, you know. So I think I had ten minutes left of the drive, and I honestly didn't think that I was gonna make it. I remember crying, like just being like oh my God, and like like you thought you were going to faint or something. On the drive it was like my ears were ringing. It was just like I was wired, you know sometimes if you like stay out too late and you're a bit wired, but you're so tired, and it was just it was not a good feeling at all. And I just remember getting home, parking the car, having a walk from a fricking car park to my apartment and like just being like everything was taking ten times as long as it should take. And it must have been warm as well, like Adam summer there at the same. 00:16:27 Speaker 2: Time, it was January, and I just remember. 00:16:30 Speaker 1: Thinking like I cannot do this. I should not be doing anything right now except for be lady for you know, twenty four hours a day. And it was burnout. That was one thousand pounds and burnout because I was trying to do all of the things and I didn't want to let anyone down. And it was just like you still are trying to hold onto that old version of you and anyway. 00:16:53 Speaker 2: And I'd like to add to that that you weren't getting paid for any of that. It was a work that you were doing for free, so you weren't even getting like not a healthy paycheck, any paycheck from doing all that. I actually think like life is about learning to say no and to know your capabilities. Because I remember that record too, because that was the record that I didn't want to cancel because I didn't want to then fuck around with different things, but like knowing that you were going off and that you were making the effort to come over. But that was the day that my very dear friends

baby had passed the day before God and Key was constantly asking about this friend because they were the same, like they were both towards the end of their pregnancies. And I didn't want to tell Key obviously what had happened, because you have multiple mutual mutual friends. I have friends from you. I've met her many a time, Like it was, it wasn't even like that it was. I wouldn't have even wanted to tell you if it was a stranger, because that's an awful story to hear about a stranger. But given that you know each other so well that you'd be like, oh my god, Like you know, if you saw each other, i'd in public and have a chat, and you do see each other several times a year. I was like, I cannot tell Key this information, and so I was trying my hardest all day to pretend to like nothing was wrong, but I kept getting teary and then I was like, yeah, I'm just tied to and Keith was probably like, you're not fucking growing a human. 00:18:21 Speaker 1: It's a stupid bitch. I definitely wouldn't be I'd just be like, oh my god, we're all crying. 00:18:27 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:18:27 Speaker 1: It wasn't a good time. There was a lot going on and we were both of us trying to hold it together, right instead of like just say we need a. 00:18:35 Speaker 2: Sea No, I cannot keep doing this. 00:18:43 Speaker 1: What are the signs? Because it's not an official diagnosis, There isn't like a set list of criteria, but there are signs. And again these are from the parents dot com article. Can you guess what the defining trait is? Kel no peaking at the script? Think about we as women, we always feel exhausted, well a bit of an emotional thing rather than a physical thing. 00:19:06 Speaker 2: Perpetually being on the brink of tears, Well, it's also called guilt. You're like, Okay, I feel like you need to go talk to someone. I'm like, perpectually being on the brink of tears, I'm like, well, let's unpack that. 00:19:15 Speaker 1: Not on today's show. I'll call you after Yeah, please, I'm always here. 00:19:20 Speaker 2: But yeah. 00:19:21 Speaker 1: The defining trait is guilt. That you may feel significant or overwhelming feelings of guilt about not being able to give your all to your family. And I think that when I think about that, so much of motherhood is shrouded or a wrapped up and how much guilt. 00:19:37 Speaker 2: Wait, so that is the definer, Like, that's the key symptom of burnout, that you feel guilty all the time. Is that everyone of this maternal burnout syndrome. Well, it's just that nothing you do is ever enough, Like you're never going to be able to give enough to your kids? I think, is it? 00:19:52 Speaker 1: And it'll make more sense and more I go through. Okay, there's also chronic exhaustion, so you may feel fatigue. We've spoken about this, fatigued constantly regardless of how much quote unquote rests you get. However RESTful that might be aches and pain. So constant exhaustion can cause tension, which can contribute to pain ranging from headaches

me in that moment to backaches me all the time now, fluctuations and appetite, like you may feel that you have little to no appetite or you might find yourself overeating to cope decreased immunity. Kelly, I thought of you when this came up, that you might get sick more often. Think about you in that newborn phase and first year of daycare and all of that, Like your body is under so much stress it has less of an ability to fight off illness. So I think you were obviously burnt out looking back at that stage we've spoken about overwhelmed. You know, even the smallest of tasks may feel immense because you're just stretched too thin. Big one here, irritability. Emotional exhaustion can cause you to snap at your partner or your kids more easily. And this one, I think is one that kind of I pricked my ears pricked up when I read for u Kel is emotional detachment. That you may feel emotionally numb or disconnected from your partner or children or even yourself. And that's something that you spoke about feeling at Christmas in the year and not really understanding why. And maybe you are feeling like a little bit overwhelmed at that time. 00:21:19 Speaker 2: So it could be absolutely all of this is ringing so true at different points where I have felt super stressed or yeah, burnt out, and like that makes sense at Christmas when I'm trying to do everything to make sure that life has the most perfect and then like in terms of appetite, I absolutely my appetite is always affected by how stressed I am. 00:21:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It's interesting that you mentioned Christmas because when I was doing the research for Burnout, I was looking on the Beyond Blue website, which is an incredible resource. If you know, anything we're talking about today is bring out any feelings you're hearing some of the things we're talking about, and maybe that might be a friend that is not coping at the moment. Beyond Blue is an creadible resource and we will link that all in the show notes. But one of the things that came up when I searched burnout on the website was Christmas burnout. Like that's actually a thing, you know, because people are stretched so thin at. 00:22:13 Speaker 2: Christmas trying to do the most all the time. 00:22:15 Speaker 1: Exactly, and it is majority of the time women, because to do list in our head around the bloody corner and back again everything. So yeah, just something interesting, you know, you mentioning that just made me remember, Well, let's get into the why first. And foremost, parenting today feels really different from different generations, from previous generations. I should say, we're expected to be educators. You know, as soon as they come out the womb, it's like, well, what are you show? Are you showing them black and white photos? No, I'm fucking trying to learn how to breastfeed. Oh well we're doing black and white photos. Okay, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. Emotional coaches, we can't relate. I can't relate to

that. We're chauffeuring our kids everywhere. We're event plannings, we're baking cakes, we're financial managers all once, and we're doing it while navigating extreme economic pressures that many families haven't experienced before. So things like the housing crisis, childcare costing, you know, tens of thousand dollars a year, groceries being ten times the amount they were twelve months ago, insurance fuel, every aspect of family life feels more expensive. And then there's also the mental load, because sometimes the most exhausting part of parenting isn't what you're doing, it's remembering what needs to be done. And the parents dot Com article touched on the impact of imbalance, and interestingly, research suggests that parents who have a partner listen to this. I'm going to start it again because I want you to truly switch on your ears right now. 00:23:43 Speaker 2: Parents who have a. 00:23:44 Speaker 1: Partner are actually more likely to experience depleted mother syndrome than single parents, which highlights how impactful the imbalance of parenting responsibilities between co parents can contribute to burnout. 00:23:59 Speaker 2: Because that actually makes sense, because we get so pissed off about having expectations and then them not being met or they're not caring about things like Christmas as much as we do. But I mean, I still think that single parents' solo parents definitely have a much tougher time with things. But that makes so much sense, and of course then they're not going to get burnt out about that because they didn't have any expectations to begin with. Well. 00:24:22 Speaker 1: I also think if you think about if you are in a healthy co parenting relationship with your ex, and it's fifty to fifty, you have your kids fifty percent of the time. So actually, really good example, real life example Tara Pavlovic form a bachelorette now and a friend. 00:24:39 Speaker 2: Of the pud friend of hood God, we've had her work before. 00:24:42 Speaker 1: She recently announced that she was separating from her husband, and she's been sharing a lot about her experience, which has been incredible, so helpful for people, definitely, And I was reading through she didn't ask me anything the other day and someone said, well, how are you finding like the separation with the kids and everything, And she's like, it's actually better because I was doing everything before and now we have to evenly split everything because I do everything when I have them, and then I have a break because they go to her ex's place. 00:25:15 Speaker 2: You know. 00:25:15 Speaker 1: She said that the probably the hardest thing is the fact that you know the relationship is ending and going through the emotional kind of distress of that. But I thought that was really interesting. Part of a breakup is always so hard for Yeah, but it was interesting that she said that I was already doing everything, so the fact that now we have fifty to fifty or whatever their arrangement

is, it's like, well, you know, my ex is now doing things that they didn't do before. So I think that's where that comes from. Yeah, exactly, think that I'm like sucked in. 00:25:49 Speaker 2: It wasn't fair before. Now you're forced to do it. 00:25:52 Speaker 1: So when I read that that was what the research was saying, I was like, I mean I can relate to that. It doesn't matter like how evenly you trying to distribute, you know, the parenting. There's always going to be a primary parent because children are different ages are going to prefer the mom because they're getting more from them, and you just you know, you're the default parent, the person who picks them up when they're sick, and it's easy to leave your job, whatever it is. The imbalance within your relationship and in your parenting co parenting relationship is really affected by you know, the I guess as women kind of the preferred parent thing. 00:26:29 Speaker 2: Luke and I, I mean me just being me, because Luke was like, well, you know, I went to overseas for work at the start of May, and I've recently, well I've just come back from my trip that's been planned for a lot longer than the Europe trips. So that's why they were so close together to Barley for my friend's birthday. But Luke was like, it's just really inconvenient for me to have to ask my boss to start work late because he starts work early every day, like seven, So he needs to start later when he has to drop Lenny off for school, And I'm like, but I do it every day. Do you not think that it's inconvenient ever for me to have to drop Like that's just the way that, like it works because we make it work. And I know that that's just your job, so I'm not gonna wings about it. But I hate doing the morning sometimes, like when Lenny's kicking and screaming at me, I hate that, Like it's so annoying. And sometimes I'm like, oh my god, I would love to have a little bit of help, or I would love that it's not always me doing the morning trying to pull a kid out of the house. And then I said, I was like, well, what if you didn't have me, Like if you were a single parent, you'd have to do it several mornings a week anyway, like exactly, you need to be adaptable, and so does because then he's like, oh, I don't want to piss off my boss. I'm like, well, your boss needs to understand that you have a family and that like your schedule is going to chop and change sometimes, like I am going to go away, whether it's for leisure or for work. That's just part of life. Then I really started. I was like, oh, what about last year when you decided to work nights and I was by myself every single morning and night and had to take him to bloody netball? Do you really think that was that convenient for me? He hasn't brought it up again. 00:28:18 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think you put him in his place. 00:28:20 Speaker 2: I did, But like, it's a very interesting thinking about it. The perspective of like a single parent. Well then all of a sudden they don't have to do, like their workload gets less. Yeah. 00:28:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a really interesting thing I hadn't thought about before either. Another factor I think that we were talked about before, but I think good to bring it up again as comparison that we now have, you know, front and row seats to everyone else's parenting, or at least they're highlight reels. And it's that's kind of why we started the pod. 00:28:51 Speaker 2: Exactly, because it's not because it's we are anything but the highlight reels really exactly. 00:28:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that is the other thing. It's like you can be having the shit to stay ever you've failed in every way parenting, you know, and then you open up and you've seen that keys made the perfect lunch boxes, and then you're just like, well, I feel like a fucking mate failure. And I just tell you, just look, they're the same every day they are. 00:29:16 Speaker 2: And also your kids don't eat them half the time, so exactly exactly. I just think that you do a lot of work for limit results. 00:29:23 Speaker 1: I've got one kid that doesn't ever eat dinner ever, ever, ever, So there you go. Everyone's got their own struggles. Rue. She just yeah, she's going through a stage. It's trying not to overthink it. I'm trying to just roll with it because Charlie also was a terrible eater. 00:29:37 Speaker 2: So whatever. She's fine though. I took her for a four year. 00:29:40 Speaker 1: Old vaccinations and she's average in every way and her weight's fine and they're really happy, and I'm just like, please, I needed to just tell her to eat more vegetables and stuff. But anyway, no worries, thanks doc. 00:29:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're very small. I think we programmed to think that they need to eat so much, but they're actually very small. 00:29:58 Speaker 1: And can we just talk about that. That's another pressure that was put on modern families. Back in the day, they weren't thinking about that drink and having birthday parties at McDonald's. Okay, now it's like blacked. Oh my god, I'm no judgment. I fucking love my McDonald's birthday parties, thank you very much. 00:30:15 Speaker 2: But yeah, you're so right, like things have like the judgment coming from everyone. No one is impossible. Modern parenting is impossible. Okay, so what can we do about this? Okay? 00:30:36 Speaker 1: Well, what's interesting about this episode today is that through putting it all together, I realized that I was burnt out. Oh shocker, but listens right now, no shit, no shit, But sometimes you just don't realize how unmanageable your life has become. Because and this was on a lot of reflection, I think that this is what it's kind of come down to. It is like we are used to operating at ridiculous levels of output. If I think about us free kids were spent decades understanding the breadth of work that we can take on and becoming really good at doing that. We've understood what our strengths are our weaknesses. And for

those of us that are millennials, a lot of our career was defined by the girl Boss era and without many or any responsibilities and with age on our side, we actually could do it all. You know, in our Girl Boss era, we were doing it all. We were doing careers, we were going out and having fun, but we didn't have any freaking responsibilities. We had no responsibilities, right, oh literally none none. 00:31:36 Speaker 2: I thought life was hard. It wasn't. 00:31:39 Speaker 1: No, it wasn't at all. And so when someone's like, do you want to be a parent, You're like, well. 00:31:43 Speaker 2: I was fucking can I do? What can I do? 00:31:46 Speaker 1: Well, now we know that the Girl Boss thing was actually kind of cooked and that we don't and shouldn't want to do it all, But when it comes to parenting, it's like we still kind of need to have that reckoning the expectations and the pressures that we often put on ourselves ah so high, and comparison, culture I think has a lot to answer for. And I think this first step to that is recognized that doing everything perfectly isn't possible, that something has to give and that's okay. And I think that definitely the second time around having a kid. Lucy said to me in like one of the early weeks of postpartum, she said, oh, it was when we were moving into the house, and I was like, so overwhelmed with boxes just shit everywhere, and she's helping me kind of unpack, and I'm just like kind of standing there, you know, flat feet, stuck in the mud, going like I just don't even know what to do. And she's like, done is better than perfect. Just put things places you have your whole life to unpack and find the perfect place for it. And that that was the best advice that she could have given me in that time. She gave me permission for me not to have to make unpacking be this perfect exercise, but more an exercise of like, just create some space for your self at the house to move in and settle in, and then spend your life unpacking and finding the perfect place, Like you've got to live in somewhere to figure out where things need to go. And I think like that Mantra can really carry into the rest of our lives and flow into the rest of our lives. 00:33:16 Speaker 2: Gosh, she's a wise lady, she really is. I wish that I had a child free best friend. I mean I don't obviously, I love my best friends, but like god, it'd be just helpful to have someone to come and help you with those things. 00:33:28 Speaker 1: Yeah, they do hit different they really do. On that note, Secondly, asking for support, but caveat here before you're completely overwhelmed. Right, You've got to ask for support before you get to the overwhelm, because the overwhelm is I'm not answering calls. 00:33:44 Speaker 2: I'm not reaching out to anyone. I'm I'm part of a. 00:33:47 Speaker 1: Mess on the floor and I'm going to take, you know, three to five business days and then I'll probably reach out to someone and be like, I just fell to pieces, but I'm back, you know, and you've had no one to help you there, and remembering that caring for yourself isn't soish, Kelly, you're a big proponent of this. It's one of the best things that you can do for your family. 00:34:04 Speaker 2: I verias is to have a. 00:34:06 Speaker 1: Little self care. 00:34:06 Speaker 2: You're very good. 00:34:08 Speaker 1: And then I know, Lastly, when discussing possible solutions in the ABC article that was kind of our guiding light for the whole topic of this episode. Following the research findings, doctor Wade from the Parenting Research Center said that the center's survey showed that loneliness, self doubt, and lack of self compassion had a stronger impact on parent mental health than cost of living pressures. 00:34:34 Speaker 2: So let me say that again. 00:34:35 Speaker 1: The survey showed that loneliness, self doubt, and a lack of self compassion had a stronger impact on parent mental health than cost of living pressures. So she said, it's much more about the emotional and psychological side, or relational side of parenting, how lonely you're feeling, how much you forgive yourself for making mistake. Doctor Wade said that parents could relieve this site ecological distress by being more self compassionate and engaging in community based peer support programs. There's something about forging connections between parents that seems to help reduce that sense of loneliness and builds hope and optimism in parents, doctor Wade said. And I think that maybe that is the biggest takeaway from today's episode, that the answer isn't becoming a better parent, it's creating conditions where parents feel connected and can then thrive. And maybe that's starting a WhatsApp group for the daycare parents and organizing a catch up with the mums over drinks to get to know them, or start a book club with them. I know that I've been recently been on a few playdates with some of Rue's friends. 00:35:42 Speaker 2: And their mums from school. 00:35:44 Speaker 1: And I have some more in the calendar coming up because I'm really trying to find my local mum friends. Maybe it's joining your local parenting Facebook group and looking for like minded people. Maybe it's volunteering. I know all the things I'm suggesting require additional labor and time, like volunteering at the next school activity, but sometimes you've got to give to get. And actually I put it out to you, shit is like, how have you found your support over the years. We'd love to know your feedback, so let us know. 00:36:16 Speaker 2: And the only thing that I would add is to if you're gonna ask for help, be willing to accept it. Yeah, that's a really good I think that that's such a not even if you're going to ask if someone offers you help, let's all get better at actually doing it. Like, as we've been recording, So my girlfriend has a newborn. Yeah, and I said to her, I was like, I know that. You know sometimes when you've got a newborn, you just want to do shit, but the

baby, like when the baby's going through those stages where they just want to sleep on you all day. Yeah, and they're literally sleeping like pretty much all day. And I know that she wants to do stuff. She's renovating her how she's got of different projects. I know that she wants to do stuff. So I said to her, I was like, I will come over one day. The baby can sleep on me, I'll get my beautiful fix for the newborn snuggles, I'll sniff her all day. I'll come and get you when she needs the boob. But you can do whatever the fuck you want. I'll just like work from your house because I've got so much stuff all the time that i can just do on my phone. And you know, while we were recording, she just messaged me, going, hey, you free for that? Can you come work from my house one day next week? Like actually taking people up on things, because you've got to remember as well, people don't offer things unless they actually want to. Yeah, and if they did, that's their own fault and that's on them. 00:37:39 Speaker 1: And I think it's really hard because when you offer and someone says no, you don't want to overstep. And I think it's really rare and some like if you have a sister, of course you overstep, you know, and always or a very very very best friend. But sometimes hard with everyone, car with everyone. So to accept someone's help, it gives them permission to do the thing that they want to do so badly for you and that moment and it's hard. I get it, it's so hard. And don't care about the state of your house. I mean, yell us from the rooftop at me, because this is my like one thing that gets in the way a lot of the time is like I'm always like, oh, it's too messy for people to come, and it's like fuck that spending time with having a play date and having someone over is going to like fill your cup. You can bitch about how hard things are at the moment. If that's going to fill your cup, don't worry about the mess. Just shove it in a cupboard, call it a day. 00:38:32 Speaker 2: Don't even shove it in a cupboard because then that's crazy. Later, shove it in a corner and tell the kids that that's the toys that they're to play with that day, or get them to clean it up. 00:38:42 Speaker 1: Oh, such a good point. I did want to finish on one last shout out for Lifeline, so again, if you or anyone you know needs help. After listening to this episode, that sounded like the episode. Course you didn't need help, that's not right. 00:38:56 Speaker 2: No, that made you realize, That made you realize, yeah, oh shit, maybe I'm on the brink or you're a burnout. 00:39:02 Speaker 1: We mentioned Beyond Blue before, and there's also Lifeline which has a twenty four hour crisis line and that number is thirteen eleven fourteen. Well, thank you so much for listening today is we Hope you enjoyed this episode. 00:39:12 Speaker 2: I have learned a lot. Didn't know that shit about burnout. 00:39:16 Speaker 1: Well, there you go, maternal burnout. It's a real thing. This podcast was produced by us Kelly McCarron and Key re Sels, with audio production by Madeline Joanna. 00:39:25 Speaker 2: Will be back in your ears next on Friday. There we go. 00:39:29 Speaker 1: I remember the show schedule? 00:39:31 Speaker 2: What is the day today? Bye bye