บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Armageddon Got The Drilling Wrong, But the need for Drillers Right!

know mirror what they have in in uh New York in order to drive this industry forward. 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:40.000 So it's an exciting time. 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:43.759 Uh as long as we can maintain it, we can build careers. 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:50.960 We just don't want to we don't want to put people in a in a career that then all of a sudden uh dries up some. 00:03:51.199 --> 00:04:02.479 Uh but we're gonna have its construction, we're gonna have those pits and valleys, but uh hopefully we can ride as many highs as we can by being proactive. 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:06.159 It's it is an exciting time. 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:12.639 And you know, the the last episode we talked about the importance of pay, and you know what? 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:31.199 The prevailing wage aspect of the geothermal ITCs, along with many states across the country, including starting with New York with Governor Hokel, who did the Thermal Energy Networks and Jobs Act. 00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:44.720 And uh the way we're looking at this as a family sustaining wage is fantastic because we're we're creating sustainable energy with people that can continue to do it. 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:50.480 And I um you graduated seven new apprentices. 00:04:50.959 --> 00:05:09.519 I talked to 75 fourth graders this week, and um it was three science blocks, and I was given uh just under an hour, and so you know, we we teach a lot, and uh had a couple takeaways from this. 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:17.199 First, I was like, okay, how many slides do I need for you know just under an hour with questions? 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:24.480 And at first I did 30, and then I was like, you know what, I'm gonna put some filler in there because I'm worried they're just gonna glaze over. 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:25.839 So I put 45. 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:29.120 Can I guess what you needed? 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:31.759 What I'm gonna say 10. 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:42.079 I'm gonna say 10 because the questions are going to be uh substantial at fourth grade. 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:43.360 I you know what? 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:44.000 So Mrs. 00:05:44.160 --> 00:06:02.480 Brooks uh Winchell Elementary, she is teaching in energy section right now from the beginning of the year, and they're talking about a fictitious town called Ergstown having blackouts, and the curriculum uh that is working is talking about renewable energy. 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:15.279 And as my daughter has come home and talking talked about different sections, um, they've talked a lot about wind and solar, and then they talk a little about hydro. 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:20.399 And so I went, huh, Brill, are they talking about geothermal? 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:24.879 And she's like, No, that's what you do, that's not renewable energy. 00:06:27.120 --> 00:07:00.399 Well, you know what it that's a microcosm of um the the outlook of the general public is that they don't understand that it is a renewable energy because although it's electricity that runs it, the efficiencies are so high that that we're actually you know uh using you know a kilowatt of energy and maybe delivering the equivalent of three or four kilowatts of energy to the to the area. 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:26.879 So, you know, it is a renewable energy, but that it tells it tells you because that teacher didn't see it that way, that that the population as a whole hears the the name, but equates that with maybe hot rock energy, or just they don't know what it means. 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:29.199 It's it's the curriculum. 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:38.560 And I'll tell you what, I don't know who will end up listening to us on and we I don't know how many times we preface this part of the nightmare. 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:46.319 Um I scoured, you know, and I I meet people at conferences all the time that go, I'm doing K through 12 curriculum. 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:51.279 I'm talking about geothermal and renewable energies to K through 12. 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:59.040 And I think we have a lot of upper middle school through high school discussions, and you can get into some pretty broad things. 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:19.759 But I went to the major associations looking to see what they have, and I know Christine Hofer kicks butt at New York Geo and talks with the Bose students and whatnot, but uh J Egg has the the coloring book and some very uh great foundational stuff. 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:28.079 Um, but I needed something fourth grade science with a fictitious town called Erbstown that's having rolling blackouts. 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.759 And um hey, I just built it. 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:34.720 Brock, what's the geology of Erbstown? 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:40.799 You know, that was a question asked by a fourth grader. 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:51.360 Yeah, Brock, but uh you know, the sun shines everywhere and the wind blows everywhere, and uh, you know, we we get this. 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:55.120 Um how is this geothermal gonna work? 00:08:55.279 --> 00:09:17.679 And what's funny as as I'm also talking with because of uh the big buffoonal bill that shifted the um IROA IRA to the new geothermal, new normal that we're seeing as Damby Lyon is talking about hey, we're coming up with leasing programs for builders in residential homes. 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:26.240 And I I am involved in a in a program for you know geothermal as a service right now as well on my my big kid job. 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:36.879 And I said to uh little Billy, and that's not his name, but uh, we're keeping these individuals uh in their wholesome world. 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:40.559 I said, This works everywhere. 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:50.399 And I I literally had an aha moment because I literally just had the same discussion with very rich financially smart people that I go with. 00:09:52.000 --> 00:10:24.320 You were able to sell 400 acres of solar panels or 90 windmills where the sun shines sometimes and the wind blows sometimes, but

uh 15 feet below the surface, it's 52 degrees or 47 degrees, or if we're down in Texas 65 or 70 degrees, and it's been that way for several million years. 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:32.559 Well, the the thing the thing people don't understand is just the battery concept, right? 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:36.399 The earth is a solar battery, period, full stop. 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:42.639 The the energy from the sun is absorbed by the earth and is stored. 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:45.519 All we're doing is accessing it, right? 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:51.360 And then learning how to turn that into either heating and cooling, you know. 00:10:56.240 --> 00:11:08.879 As long as I have a temperature difference, and then we're already using what you already have free on, or um, and by the way, I didn't hit the temperature difference bell right there. 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:09.759 That was my phone. 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:14.080 I'm about to shut the uh the sound off. 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:20.639 This this, by the way, is in fact a amateur uh well, I shouldn't say amateur. 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:29.600 This is a professional podcast run by two amateurs at podcasting, professional drillers, amateur podcasters, right? 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:31.200 I know I bet the different. 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:40.559 I think at this point I'm a professional podcaster, and uh nobody believes I'll give you professional podcaster, I will give me amateur co-host. 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:41.840 How's that? 00:11:42.559 --> 00:12:09.600 No, just because you know they also won't probably uh I'm gonna have to really work, and I and I love doing like stuff with young kids, but because of spending as much time as I have with adults, um I I really have to concentrate if I'm with young, young kids. 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:16.639 I never swore the entire time my kids were young, and if you swore in front of them, it pissed me off. 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:30.799 Now I'm the one that has to be biting my tongue because I almost in it, and so I've recently found that oh, hey, you've become a little more like you were in the field and a little less like you were at home. 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:59.360 You know, I um I didn't have any Freudian slips, and uh I once in front of the mountain states uh water well drilling conference teaching um recruitment and 20 and then hiring 21st century employees, and this this class I taught was 2017-2018. 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:25.200 And I I said the fudge word as a uh as talking about a young man having his hand smashed and what that meant to a company, and I I said it in a comical like manner, but I had to write a letter and apologize. 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:42.399 And um funny enough, when I apologized to the entire association, everybody's like, we don't remember you saying it, but one individual did, and they needed to know that I I overstepped my bounds by saying it. 00:13:42.720 --> 00:14:07.360 Um, I think they're also the same individual that would have rather been in a uh class on variable speed pumps and not listening to some 37-year-old kid at the time talking about how we need to hire all individuals, not just you know, the same traditional individuals we've been hiring ourselves. 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:22.559 Well, it's it's really hard to find those same traditional individuals because our our economy is driving many of them uh away from what they traditionally did, right? 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:35.679 Uh farming is much, much harder to to do now, especially under our recent uh uh changes in in what's going on. 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:42.960 So if there's no if there's no future in it, they don't want to continue in that kind of work. 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:50.559 So they are available, but now we have to make this uh attractive. 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:53.200 And that's the that's the hard thing. 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:58.399 We we really have to make again, and I know this is a broken record coming from me. 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:05.600 We have to show them the career and show them what advantages we have coming to this industry, you know. 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:20.399 Um we uh they are out there, but there's just as good a candidate who are just as hungry from everywhere else in the country. 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:31.679 There's uh I have a couple female uh apprentices that are cornerstones for their company now, right? 00:15:31.919 --> 00:16:12.399 I've got I've got some gentlemen from the uh you know from rough areas in the inner city that work for uh you know traditional water well companies, you know, all that they have to be able to do is get to the job, and that's that's one of the problems we have is that uh when we recruit from the inner city is that uh we don't typically you can't get public transportation to the job, so you have to have your own car, which a lot of times there's nowhere to put a car in the city. 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:14.240 Uh, so it doesn't make sense. 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:15.600 Well, what does it cost? 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.399 Like, let's talk nightmares, it's Halloween. 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:23.200 What is parking cost for a construction worker for a day? 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:32.799 Well, parking cost for a day uh in our area a lot of times is uh worked into the budget of the job. 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:46.639 Uh but what I'm talking about is somebody who's got to own their vehicle but lives in uh an area that doesn't have the infrastructure except for on the street. 00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:57.360 And then when it's on when you have a vehicle on the street, uh, you know, you don't know in some of those areas, you know, how can you afford to have a nice car on the street? 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:10.960 You probably can't, and then you have to rent a garage or something in order to be able to put it's it becomes a another hardship for them to be able to do it, so it becomes a difficult recruiting tool. 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:18.160 And so when you do

run into those people that hey, I can get do you have good reliable transportation? 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:26.720 One of our one of the basic questions that we have to ask in our initial interview, do you have reliable transportation? 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:36.960 Right, and it makes sense though, because what's the one thing a contractor cannot abide? 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:45.920 Someone who's not there on time or just doesn't show up because you know, hey, I had a I had a flat or my my cars broke down, you know. 00:17:46.240 --> 00:18:03.839 So the I don't have I'm not I don't have an answer for that as far as how we fix it, but but it's a consideration that we have to look, okay, when we are recruiting from these other areas, that it's hard. 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:25.839 But I've got some guys that came from those areas and still live there that you know have seen the benefit of you know working for one of these companies and you know being able to work towards being able to move out of that area because it's extraordinarily expensive to live in the city. 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:37.839 I know that's a hard thing for you to understand, but even when you're living in one of those areas that's that's uh run down, it's extremely expensive. 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:48.880 So getting out of there compared to you know growing up where where I grew up or where you grew up is what way more expensive than it was when we were growing up. 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:53.359 But in towards the cities is even is even worse. 00:18:53.920 --> 00:19:00.400 And so to move out now, you need to find a decent job to even get an apartment now. 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:06.079 Apartments cost more than what my initial mortgage, and that's for a one-room apartment. 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:11.200 My initial mortgage was less money than what than what some of these people are paying for apartments. 00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:21.599 Heck, some of the car payments for a newer vehicle are up around where uh you know where we used to have housing for that. 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.240 So so I was shocked the other day. 00:19:24.400 --> 00:20:15.680 Somebody told me that they're you know they they were paying on a you know basic basic car, like not even a like fancy car, not sports car, not a big car, small car, and they were, you know, oh it's my payment is six hundred dollars a month, plus insurance, plus and I'm like, how I I don't understand how at the wages that we are offering, how are we how are we really gonna work somebody out of that, you know, uh more hours, more whatever, but it it becomes a difficult choice, especially when you can choose the fast food restaurant a mile away for similar money, and then now I'm not burning all that fuel. 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:20.160 It's a yes, yes, and this is the same discussion we just had. 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:28.799 You know, we we talk family sus sustaining wages, and um you're absolutely right. 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:36.880 Uh a reliable vehicle and insurance, and then you you're in the third largest city in the country. 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:52.319 Um, when you get into parking or traffic or fuel, the amount of road time, like those all have to be considered, you know, or you go work for buckies, yeah. 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:54.880 Yeah, if there's a buckies buy it. 00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:57.039 Yeah. 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:02.559 Um and it's that's the other end of it, you know. 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:39.920 In in the nightmare of we need more workforce, as you're talking about I've never heard of you saying we just graduated seven in October when we surely know that we are in late October, like slush, snow, ice, um, road conditions, like winter is coming, and that you know, you're gonna get somebody just started, and then we're gonna have to slow down. 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:47.519 Well, I guess from what we're seeing on some of the companies that are that are hiring these people, right? 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:51.920 Uh they're not seeing a slowdown. 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:54.640 They're seeing where they have to stop, they'll stop. 00:21:54.799 --> 00:22:01.920 Other than that, the the schedules are not gonna let them stop, and the amount of work is is pretty high. 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:14.240 So, because you know, remember we service the entirety of industrial drilling, you know, so it's geothermal, it's geotechnical, it's uh construction drilling, it's dewatering, right? 00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:18.799 So we've we've seen uh all of this stuff. 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:24.480 Will there be a slowdown for some other institutions? 00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:26.160 Sure. 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:31.759 Uh the geotechnical side, though, doesn't believe there's gonna be a slowdown. 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:39.119 They've actually said if we could provide it, they'd they'd add crews, and you know that's that's crazy dog. 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:41.680 Plus, there's a lot of traveling going on too. 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:57.359 So, you know, some of these companies know they don't want to they they want to keep their machines busy, so they might look for some work down south or some some other stuff and to be able to to keep things rolling. 00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:17.920 Because once, you know, like anyone, once you get somebody trained that you like, laying them off is a bad idea because if I have to lay you off, what's to say that somebody who has other work doesn't snatch you up, and then there's no guarantee you wind up back with me, right? 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:23.759 So the more you know, if if all you're looking for is a warm body, that's not a problem. 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:34.079 But if you're looking for somebody building a career understanding what you guys do and helping your company forward, you can't afford to do that. 00:23:34.240 --> 00:24:09.519 So so I think a lot of them are looking at more long-term solutions of hey, we're getting quality candidates through here

through this system, and we wanna we wanna try and keep them busy as long as we can so that we don't put the resources in training them the way we want things done and how this system works for our company, and then have to worry about training somebody else next year because we laid them off and they went to work for our competitor, right? 00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:12.880 Uh, so we see a lot of this coming. 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:26.960 They've already told us they need more people in February that we're going to have to run, we're going to have to run another evaluation in February so that when weather starts to break in March, they can add crews. 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:44.000 So, I mean, it's a it's a great problem to have that I'm re retooling all of our scheduling that would that we've traditionally done because you know I have other we do have other things that the instructors do. 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:48.799 You know, we do stuff with the with the heavy equipment operators for safety classes. 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:54.720 I teach the case on classes, we have some other stuff to do, but drilling is my primary thing. 00:24:54.960 --> 00:25:05.279 So, you know, we're going to we're gonna have to shift our schedules all around to figure out okay, this new this new reality we're in, how do we meet it? 00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:05.759 Right? 00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:11.440 Because it's it's on us to to make sure we give quality candidates to the contractor, right? 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:16.319 And so we're gonna do that come hell or high water. 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:20.480 It's um it's a good problem to have. 00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:32.319 And you know, as we've rolled into the intro and we've thought about workforce as a nightmare, I uh I for years have wanted to have this discussion with you. 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:37.039 And I think we're we're finally able to on Halloween. 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:44.400 Um not a very scary movie, unless unless you really start thinking about it. 00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:49.200 You know, do you know what movie I'm talking about or I'm thinking about, don't you? 00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:52.480 Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:58.640 You're you're not you're not flying me to an asteroid, are you? 00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:06.720 Oh yeah, oh yeah, and we have that like 3-1A Atlas asteroid flying by us right now. 00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:19.839 Yeah, we do, and um I'm not sure if we could catch it because you know uh let's talk reality here. 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:25.359 It's moving faster than what physics say it should, right? 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:29.039 And that's and and I'm uh let me preface this. 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:31.519 Dave Bowers is not an astrophysicist. 00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:33.759 Dave Bowers can barely drones. 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:36.319 I do fly drones, but they don't move that fast. 00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:40.079 Dave Bowers has seen things, is all all he's seen. 00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:43.920 But if it's moving faster, how are we catching it? 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:44.480 Right? 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:48.319 We're not catching it to put a to put a uh drill rig on it. 00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:49.839 I'm I'm sorry. 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:57.920 No, um and uh I love this conversation because I forever I would say I'm too. 00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:00.000 It's your favorite movie, I think. 00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:17.359 First, everything until they land and pull a drill out is my favorite movie, and then and then I just have so many questions, and um the theaters I did too. 00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:22.240 I started the drive-in movie theater with my girlfriend at the time, Lena Dussel. 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:35.200 Uh I saw well, I saw it in the theaters, I believe, with my father, mother, and my wife, if I remember. 00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:37.519 Because it was summer blockbusters. 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:39.440 We we don't have that anymore. 00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:44.720 The only I can only think of two movies I saw with my parents and my wife. 00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:46.720 The other one is Titanic. 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:56.799 Anyway, so I saw this with my and as soon as the the drilling stuff started happening, I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:03.440 This is the least realistic drilling that I've ever seen in my life. 00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:16.960 Uh it's it's funny because it's zero atmosphere and it's moving, and I don't know what the tubing is that's coming out of the hole as they're drilling. 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:18.720 Like, are we drilling reverse? 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:20.480 Are we drilling with air? 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:23.519 Like what is it a kick? 00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:25.920 Like, what what is the kick? 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:44.720 This is this is this is was what was breaking my brain, is that we were we were drilling and exhausting uh exhausting cutting. 00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:53.200 So that leads you to believe there's some sort of compressed air source, compressed nitrogen source, air source. 00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:55.359 Look at the size of the machine. 00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:59.599 There's nothing else hooked to it, right? 00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:03.039 It's not pulling a giant tank, right? 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:05.759 So it it cannot. 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:10.720 There is nothing to compress to make what's going on go on, right? 00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:18.079 And that was just but there's no fluid, so it had to be some sort of compress uh of gas media, right? 00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:37.759 So to me, I could not come up with uh and and just like you, I think at that time at that moment, my uh my I could not suspend my belief long enough to finish this movie, right? 00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:42.079 Because I'm like, they could have they should have done something, right? 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:50.799 Because you can hammer all you want, nothing's gonna come out of the nothing's

gonna it look like a top hammer rig, which are not known for real speed, by the way. 00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:55.359 It's it's great. 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:59.599 And it I love how our driller egos are. 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:06.559 Like, nope, like the drilling's not realistic enough on a planet-killing asteroid. 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:18.319 Yet, we can believe from the beginning of the movie that it is easier to train a driller to become an astronaut than it is for an astronaut to become a driller. 00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:21.599 They didn't train them to become astronauts. 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:23.119 They really didn't. 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:27.200 They told them they taught them how to put a suit on, basically, right? 00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:32.319 That the astronauting part was done by astronauts, right? 00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:42.079 Um, I would love to have the opportunity, uh, however, you know, that also is somewhat unrealistic. 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:53.119 I believe you have to be in shape a little bit to withstand the the G-forces of uh takeoff, re-entry, those things. 00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:59.839 There's a reason that astronauts aren't you know shaped like me or you, typically, right? 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:03.680 Oh, I I don't know. 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:06.480 It's uh it's hilarious. 00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:33.920 And at the same time, when I think of recruitment, and I think of the beginning of that movie, and I I actually have the like Bruce Willis monologue in my phone of um that what catches me in the first like 20 minutes, you know. 00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:45.839 Um we get past the the comical offshore stuff, and we get to Bruce Willis and Billy Bob Thornton talking. 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:57.680 And uh Bruce Willis says, you know, drilling is science, it is a science, it's an art, you know, and that's something we talk about, right? 00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:02.720 That that learned response, those microsecond adjustments. 00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:34.000 And you as a a drilling instructor and a drone pilot or a a pilot with um earplanes and everything else, like I have always said that drilling is very similar to being a pilot, like a test pilot, not a not a dragon rocket that mission control controls the entire way up, but you know, back to the response. 00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:39.680 Here's the similarity, right? 00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:55.440 Is that you're constantly of this is a similarity between radio control, not with drones, but with with like radio control aircraft that that don't self-fly and uh drilling. 00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:02.079 You're constantly having to decide what that next outcome should be. 00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:03.680 What what's going on now? 00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:04.799 How do I correct it? 00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:06.480 What's the next outcome, right? 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:46.000 Whether it be you're trying to fly, you know, just easy circles or you're trying to fly aerobatics or whatever it is, it's the

same thing going on, and it's why uh you know, being a an operator of a drill rig, where I learn I know what the levers do, and being a driller is a is a relatively long process, and it really starts from the day you start running a rig and ends about the time where you stop running a rig because you're gonna constantly learn there's constantly gonna be something new, and you have to interpret on very limited information. 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:51.440 We don't have a we don't have a uh a live camera at the bit, right? 00:33:51.599 --> 00:34:00.559 We've got uh drilling action, sound of the rig, the color of the cutting, or the color of the fluid coming out if you're using mud. 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:04.799 We've got what the you know, and we're making decisions based on that. 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:08.079 And my uh uh the speed that it's penetrating, right? 00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:11.519 All of those things, and we're making decisions on what to do. 00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:14.880 Think about that first time you went out on the on a rig. 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:22.480 Uh, I believe the the story goes that you kind of buried it a little bit trying to show how fast you could go, right? 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:27.280 It wasn't my first time, that was just the first time at the at the controls on the platform. 00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:28.480 No, that's what I mean. 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.159 The first time that you were you were the driller, right? 00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:35.599 So I know what I'm doing, look how fast I can go. 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:46.320 And you know, we we tell people all the time that you know it's it's really that a lot of times for most drilling, it's the turtle in the hare, right? 00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:51.280 If if you're rushing, bad's gonna happen. 00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:59.199 If you find a rhythm that you can maintain over that entire day, you're gonna get things done. 00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:01.920 And that's and that's the that's the real key. 00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:03.840 It's the same thing flying, right? 00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:18.480 If I'm if I'm trying to go from one maneuver to the next maneuver and I'm reacting to the aircraft, chances are we're gonna have a crash. 00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:22.239 Chances are we're gonna stick a bit, chances are we're gonna have a problem. 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:32.559 But if I'm not going over my abilities, so ahead of the aircraft, right? 00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:36.239 I'm not, I'm not uh uh what is his name? 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:37.440 Jace, I believe. 00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:45.119 Jace the ace is like the bet right now the best aerobatic 3D pilot for RC, right? 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:46.239 Uh whatever. 00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:47.679 I just know his name, right? 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:48.639 His name is Jace. 00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:50.159 I don't remember his last name is. 00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:52.000 Anyway, I'm not him. 00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:55.679 If I try to fly like him, we're

picking sticks up, right? 00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:58.639 Because I don't have the ability. 00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:17.679 I have the ability to do things that that I know I can do as long as I stay inside of my ability and I don't let the aircraft get ahead of me, where I'm making uh I'm making reactions to what it's doing rather than planning what it's doing. 00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:21.760 And and it's the same thing planning a drill job, right? 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:34.559 Maybe that first hole on a geothermal job, even for an experienced guy in bad conditions, it can get ahead of him, but it won't get ahead of him. 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:37.119 Has he studied logs of that area? 00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:39.280 Has he worked in that area before? 00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:40.239 Has he right? 00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:47.119 That whole experience element, and if he does his homework, chances are it's not going to get ahead of it. 00:36:47.920 --> 00:37:00.239 However, the rest of the job should go relatively smooth, except for something unforeseen that he can't predict. 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:05.199 But those things become less and less as he does his homework. 00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:07.119 Uh it's no different. 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:12.960 You and I did that job uh years ago at uh Lasma. 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:16.880 I know that Lazma is horrible drilling, right? 00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:22.719 And we so when we showed up, we had all these contingencies. 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:24.880 That why are you bringing all that? 00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:27.599 Because I don't know. 00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:35.039 I've been out here before, I've seen so many different issues happen here in Lasma. 00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:46.480 So I had to plan for every contingency, and we got the project done, not as quickly as I would have liked, but the project was finished, right? 00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:52.880 Uh and all the all the parameters were met by the end of the project. 00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:54.400 Client was happy. 00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:56.719 That's all that matters, right? 00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:08.480 Now, if I have a choice between a job in Lasma and a job in Wilmington for the same money, I'm taking the Wilmington job every single time. 00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:11.360 I it I couldn't agree more. 00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:20.239 So you're saying um you wouldn't go to an asteroid and drill if you could drill 30 minutes from home. 00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:28.000 Yes, if I can drill 30 minutes from home, I'm not going to an asteroid because uh I don't think I can get logs on an asteroid. 00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:32.239 I can get uh you know, and they're gonna tell me it's horrible things too. 00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:34.320 They're gonna say, oh yeah, it's iron. 00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:35.599 Right? 00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:37.360 Well, great. 00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:39.280 That's gonna drill fabulous. 00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:43.360 Iron pyrite, I think, is what uh what we get into. 00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:45.440 I uh I want to read this that's line. 00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:49.840 So after he goes, you know, drilling is a science, it's an art. 00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:55.920 I'm a third generation driller, doing it all my life, and I still haven't gotten it all figured out. 00:38:56.239 --> 00:38:56.960 Goes on. 00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:04.639 I sent, I assume you sent me for me because somebody told you I was the best. 00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:08.320 Well, I'm only the best because I work with the best. 00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:12.880 You don't trust the men you're working with, you're as good as dead. 00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:16.159 Now you want to send these boys into space, fine. 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:22.559 I'm sure they are good astronauts, but they don't know jack about drilling. 00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:35.440 Well again, but I I agree with one thing, there's one thing I agree with what he said, right? 00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:40.800 Anyone who tells you they're the best, run. 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:43.199 Run. 00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:46.079 If someone else tells you that guy's the best, that's fine. 00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:56.079 But if anyone in construction says, yep, I'm the best, uh, and by the way, every jeweler believes they're the best. 00:39:56.239 --> 00:39:57.920 Uh I can prove it. 00:39:58.159 --> 00:39:59.440 I have proof right here. 00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:08.400 This is gonna make people want to go watch the video portion um from Mrs. 00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:12.079 Brooks fourth grade class. 00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:17.360 Oh no. 00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:19.840 Can you see it? 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:29.519 You are a well geothermal drill master. 00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:32.239 Okay. 00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:42.800 Now I've been validated I I do I do ab I do like that you got the Mrs. 00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:55.519 Brooks fourth grade class badge of approval, except that what they showed in that picture was hot rock geothermal. 00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:58.880 So did you really explain it properly? 00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:02.800 Oh, now you're now you're challenging me, and I love this. 00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:05.280 So, all right, Dave. 00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:08.960 This is the back of the card. 00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:13.039 Because we did talk a little hot rock, but not a lot. 00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:18.320 And uh boom. 00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:22.880 They wrote, I love science. 00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:26.880 Okay, now that I can get now, now is that not great? 00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:28.320 That's fine. 00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:43.280 I just had to question your uh and apparently Alicia and Rachel, uh, you know, they got what you were laying down because I see their signatures there. 00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:48.000 But then all in all, you know, I'm pretty now I'm now I'm happy with what you did. 00:41:48.159 --> 00:42:05.440 But what the other side, man, it was it, it was, I thought for sure that maybe you had jumped from our normal cold

rock and have become a a hot rock guru uh somehow that I was unaware of. 00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:07.360 I mean, you may have. 00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:22.639 I mean, you're you are you're rangy, but uh I uh I did get to inadvertently, and I find myself in these situations many times lately, or my time my entire career. 00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:30.960 Um last year I got to be part of Project Inner Spaces Geo project. 00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:43.360 So I got to go to Texas AM and talk with all the rest of the geothermal drilling professionals, and I was one of few geoexchange heating and cooling. 00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:48.000 You know, they wanted to talk power generation and high pressure, high temp. 00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:50.079 And I have some background in that. 00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:51.039 So it was fun. 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.280 Thank you, Halliburton and Bayreuth. 00:42:53.679 --> 00:43:03.199 And um I've been sitting on this panel, you know, let's talk about oil field drillers and drilling asteroids and oil field drillers drilling other things. 00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:17.039 You know, I'm sitting on this panel with um a working group, not a panel, with the IADC, the International Association of Drilling Contractors, and they they do some great stuff and they have a well-controlled school. 00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:25.840 And that team has made job sites safe and has put a certificate program together so that people understand well control. 00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:37.920 They they are now doing geothermal well control, and so geothermal well control, they're going to talk about all the bad things that can happen in a geothermal well. 00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:44.000 And they've classified these wells and um geoexchange is what they're going by. 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:52.480 So heating and cooling, geoexchange, geothermal versus power generation or hydrothermal or hot rock. 00:43:52.719 --> 00:44:08.960 Um they're getting lumped together, and that's why we're busy right now, is because big G and little G for the the big uh Buffoon O'Bill, you know, they're they're all one. 00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:19.280 And um the discussion came up you do not have well control without a diverter and blowout preventer. 00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:43.280 And it gets better because a oil and gas professional in the state of Michigan jumped on the call one day, not knowing anybody else was from the state of Michigan on there, and uh made a statement about how it's the wild west, and um we need we need these risk matrix and control measures in place. 00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:44.880 I fully agree. 00:44:45.599 --> 00:45:00.079 What I didn't agree with was suddenly saying that our great industrial drilling companies, geothermal, water well drillers, geotechnical drillers, mining professionals, everybody you've been teaching. 00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:02.559 How long have you been teaching them, Dave? 00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:03.840 Uh 16 years. 00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:05.360 16 years. 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:17.280 How often in 16 years in our discussions, we've talked about well control, we talk about volatile atmospheres, we talk about the dangers and looking at the risk matrix. 00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:25.519 And there, every rig ought to have a four-gas meter, or now today, you know, it's just as easy to get a five-gas. 00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:35.760 And we should be very cognizant, especially H2S and all the geotechnical and environmental stuff we do around refineries and plants and that. 00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:50.079 But to say that geo-exchange geothermal, that forever we went 300 feet, and then we went 500 feet, and suddenly 800, and now they're talking 1600 feet in the state of Michigan. 00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:55.360 Oh, you better have a flame to be able to flare off that methane we're going to encounter. 00:45:55.440 --> 00:46:04.320 And you better have all the control measures in place, because frankly, we have a footprint to do that, right? 00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:08.800 Am I going to be able to do that in a dense urban area in your? 00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:10.960 How can you teach this, Dave? 00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:19.920 Uh the short answer is you really can't, however, right? 00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:26.559 Um I I'm not a I'm not an engineer. 00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:39.039 But I question myself, do we need to do sixteen hundred foot geothermal holes? 00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:41.119 Does it make sense? 00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:46.079 Now the the fact that you can design it, great. 00:46:46.639 --> 00:47:00.639 My concern is the uh the the precision it takes to be able to uh uh install loops at those depths and those. 00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:03.519 I don't think we need blowout protectors and all of that. 00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:14.480 We do an awful lot of uh you know 2,000 and 2,500 foot water well for municipality without blowout protectors, right? 00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:29.599 You don't need a blowout protector uh for that unless history shows that you should have something like that in the area, in which case you should not be planning a geothermal job that deep there, right? 00:47:29.760 --> 00:48:05.519 It comes back to planning again, but um there does need to be new SOPs put together for if I'm gonna go that deep, the precision it's gonna take to make sure we don't shut off those loops, uh, you know, pinch them or or blow them out on the bottom because of uh hydrostatic pressure, uh, because you know, uh in case you you need to go to uh a little bit of school, some of the drillers, you know, we don't we didn't go to school for any of this, right? 00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:11.039 Uh so you learned on the job like a lot of guys. 00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:18.960 Well, the way to find out that you didn't get that right is not when all of a sudden the system fails. 00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:22.719 Because I got a lot of time in in that. 00:48:23.119 --> 00:49:02.159 But think about if we wind up with a a hole that's relatively dry,

and we put that geothermal loop in at 1500 feet, it what is the what is the burst pressure for that material depends on what they've they spec for the material, and then we have to make sure as we're grouting that that we're bringing the fluid inside and outside the loop up at the same level so that we can protect it against either blowing it out or shutting it off, because with water, every what 2.31 feet is one PSI. 00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:09.519 But now when we go grout, which is so much heavier, it might be a PSI for every three-quarter foot, right? 00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:12.880 Or every foot and a quarter, depends on what the specific gravity is. 00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:35.440 So now we've got to be able to play that game as we're grouting to make sure, but we can't fill that loop uh up a hundred percent because if we do, now we can blow it out at the bottom before we ever get grout to it because the pressures that we're putting on, you know, think about it, it's just like going down the at the bottom of a pool. 00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:42.320 The pressure that changes on your ear, the same thing is happening to the loop uh at the bottom of the hole. 00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:46.320 So what is the what is that pressure at 1500 feet? 00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:51.760 We're looking at we're looking at over 600 pounds of pressure, right? 00:49:52.400 --> 00:50:11.119 So now we have to counteract that with the grout, and it just is gonna take some a little bit of knowledge and a little bit of uh of SOPs and retraining the crews to where you don't do the same thing every time. 00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:14.559 You're gonna have to say, Hey, where's our water level? 00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:18.880 Right, so I know what we're what we're submerging in. 00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:24.639 We you know now it becomes more precision drilling, uh, like anything. 00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:30.400 Whenever we increase in depth, we increase in complication, right? 00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:33.360 Uh, and that's on all drilling everywhere. 00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:40.639 When you increase in depth in depth, you're gonna increase the complication of proper finishing of the well. 00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:45.440 It's it's tough. 00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:59.039 Um, everything you said, you just hit the nail on the head, and it's been a wild ride in your 16 years of teaching geothermal 16 years ago. 00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:14.639 Um, I was designing, I wasn't designing, I was field testing thermally enhanced groutes and working with both states, and we were putting two loops in one hole, you know, and going to 400 feet. 00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:21.679 And um, you know, the the discussions were well, they want us 500 feet. 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:25.840 And again, we got into the discussion of all right, cool. 00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:28.800 Does everybody have dual action piston grouters now? 00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:33.119 Um, mix 111 came out at 72% solids. 00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:51.599 You know, we were

trying to put Mix 111 down a hole, or we were trying to do one 50-pound bag of bentonite and 400 pounds of sand, you know, and like water quantity and quality and pumping time and trimmy size. 00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:56.079 People freaking out, well, you want me to go to an intercourt of trimming? 00:51:56.239 --> 00:52:00.639 You know, like uh, and here we are. 00:52:01.519 --> 00:52:02.079 Cool. 00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:04.079 Can we get to that depth? 00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:05.119 Sure. 00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:08.960 Are you getting to that depth in an adequate production time? 00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:24.320 Because we we have this discussion many times over, and um I can drill 1500 feet a day in the many areas of the Great Lakes State if it's three, 500-foot holes. 00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:40.639 I'm not drilling one 1500-foot hole, even if we want to look at all of the great um press releases out there that say they're there, they just broke the drilling record in feet. 00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:57.920 Those are 2,500 horsepower rigs with a staff of 35 people, no different than what Bruce Willis said in here about um, I'm only the best because I work with the best. 00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:02.159 And they we trust each other and we keep ourselves safe. 00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:08.880 And so um I want oil-filled technology in geothermal. 00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:18.000 And I I our advancements, um, including everything that's come out so far, and coil tubing rigs are a new generation of what we're doing. 00:53:18.239 --> 00:53:23.280 I was gonna say that that that's the game changer for us is the coil tubing rigs. 00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:38.800 But you know, we first off, is there an there before we can get widely implemented, there has to be projects for them that make sense because the costs are what they are, right? 00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:41.360 Coal tubing rigs, right? 00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:54.800 And so we really need to start, you know, looking at things in a in a in a light, it a lot of times the tail wags a dog in this in this industry, right? 00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:06.480 You're gonna be hard pressed to find a contractor that wants to go buy a coil tubing rig on the off chance that the projects are gonna be there for them. 00:54:06.559 --> 00:54:12.400 The projects kind of gotta come first, but they can't really afford to do the projects unless they have someone to drill it. 00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:16.880 So right tool, right tool for the right application. 00:54:17.199 --> 00:54:28.800 But the the reality is as we look at scaling, and we've tossed out many different numbers with the Geothermal Drillers Association and whatnot, going back in recruitment. 00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:52.159 And to hit 2050 goals, we need like 65,000 drill rigs drilling 600 holes a year for the next 24 and a half years, which means if I have 65,000 new drill rigs out there, I have 180 or 200,000 new employees. 00:54:52.800 --> 00:55:02.320 Like not to mention, and we talked

about this last week, um, the drill, the water well industry just at 10 and a half million dollars worth of revenue. 00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:03.920 So they're busy. 00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:26.800 And uh full circle back to add in surface casing and a sophisticated blowout preventer, and now build them to scale so that they're reasonably priced, so that they are a safety mechanism we can implement, or put the risk matrix at hand. 00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:36.079 But I drill 3,600-foot wells in South Florida into the Lower Floridian, and we don't have well control on those. 00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:46.159 There are plenty of deep holes out there, and well control designed appropriately, has established surface casing. 00:55:46.719 --> 00:55:54.480 So once we get done cemented established surface casing, what is my cost per foot to drill that? 00:55:54.719 --> 00:56:01.920 But what is my lateral cost per foot to tie that in? 00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:04.800 Because let's think about this, Dave. 00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:14.079 I I gotta finish that hole, I gotta remove that surface casing on surface with my blowout preventer, have everything sealed. 00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:23.519 But when my tie-in crew comes in, what did my cost per bore to get it to six feet below the surface? 00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:25.199 Like, can you imagine? 00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:30.719 No, no, it's gonna be it's going to be relatively high. 00:56:31.519 --> 00:56:45.280 And unless there is some sort of mechanism that's saying that this is the way you have to go, it's gonna it's gonna do this a similar thing possibly to some of the cold rock. 00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:49.199 Uh residentially, it will not be viable anymore. 00:56:49.440 --> 00:56:57.360 But then again, on top of it, uh uh residentially, you know, how viable is heating oil out east, right? 00:56:57.440 --> 00:56:59.920 That doesn't make any sense either, right? 00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:14.639 So um I'm just saying from a standpoint of cutting a hole, you know, right trenching, making a trench big enough that now I can get down there with a concrete saw, right? 00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:21.599 And then after I get done with the concrete saw, I have to cut that surface casing without it. 00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:37.119 You can chip the concrete possibly, but yeah, all in all, yeah, it's you've you've just taken your tie and crew and you've probably increased the numbers on your tie-in crew, you've increased the by far the time that they tie in, right? 00:57:37.679 --> 00:57:44.719 Um so really what we what we need to find. 00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:51.440 Well, and even beyond that, let me let me think back on this a little bit. 00:57:51.679 --> 00:57:56.159 We also then have to possibly, and that depends on the area. 00:57:56.559 --> 00:58:13.360 Now the design of the of the systems is going to change because you're no longer uh down to the rock, you're no longer tying into the formation because you're tying into the you're tying into casing. 00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:38.000 And uh, so then we need to use thermally enhanced cementatious grout to be able to put that there's a lot of things that that would have to possibly change, and it may only be a few feet that they have to change, but but I think that's it's a wholesale change in the designs of the project, how long the projects will take. 00:58:38.239 --> 00:58:54.719 Um I think there's gotta be a better engineering solution to what we're talking about for well control for these kind of things. 00:58:55.199 --> 00:59:10.320 Um and it might just be that you have to look at the area that you're in and not and not uh not plan to go uh deep enough that we're gonna need to use that extensive of well control. 00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:17.760 Because we have to be uh we have to be efficient or or this this industry can't can't continue. 00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:20.320 I I I see it. 00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:32.639 We need the risk matrix, you know, and I remember calling you in the in the middle of this discussion and being like, hey, how do we come to a similar risk matrix as what we have for trenching? 00:59:33.039 --> 00:59:40.880 When do you need an engineered system versus when do you need just benching versus soil classification? 00:59:41.039 --> 00:59:42.960 You know, all of those components. 00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:54.320 And we have to make it um executable and that somebody can be the competent person on site because we cannot over engineer these systems. 00:59:54.719 --> 00:59:59.519 And I think we'll have some systems out there that do this, and they'll be good. 01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:05.920 And uh it will be a smaller footprint because every engineer right now all they see is more vertical feet. 01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:11.679 So what if I lose 50 feet to casing, I have 1550 feet of vertical. 01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:17.199 But that but that probably means that you you over drilled it. 01:00:18.880 --> 01:00:19.440 Right. 01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:38.159 But I I understand it is the the the temptation as the footprints we have the working gets smaller, the temptation to put more vertical depth in these loops, but it's always like you said, it's always got to be okay. 01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:40.719 Does this does this make sense? 01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:43.920 Just because it'll heat the building, right? 01:00:45.199 --> 01:00:48.639 Doesn't make it uh make sense or safe. 01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:57.920 I can heat your building with a mini nuclear reactor out of a sub, it doesn't make sense for me to do it, right? 01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:12.159 So are we because you know we're so in enamored with that we can do it, we gotta we gotta start thinking, should we do it? 01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:30.639 And you know, or it could simply be the that we have to change, uh okay, we have this footprint for a vertical outside, and we can only go 500 feet or 600 feet or a thousand feet there because deeper than that it's gonna not be practical. 01:01:30.880

--> 01:01:31.199 Okay. 01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:38.400 And then we have to start looking at what are our what are our options? 01:01:38.719 --> 01:01:46.000 Because really, how much is how much are we can have a hybrid system, right? 01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:52.480 Where the geothermal system supplements a a tradition more traditional system. 01:01:53.119 --> 01:01:56.320 Um, there's a lot of ways you could go with this. 01:01:56.559 --> 01:02:21.599 I mean, as a as a driller, man, drill, drill, drill is what I want to see, but at the same time, I don't want engineers experimenting killing people for one, but then on top of that, killing the industry because they've over they've overpromised, right? 01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:29.199 And I guess that's maybe just because I'm more of a a realist when it comes to this kind of thing. 01:02:29.360 --> 01:02:35.039 Uh, but I just I just don't see where that makes sense. 01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:40.239 So you there are times when you when you told me that that's how deep they want to go. 01:02:40.320 --> 01:02:41.679 I know I'm not gonna let you talk. 01:02:41.840 --> 01:03:18.239 Uh when you told me that's how deep they wanted to go on that project where you after you, I think we were on the phone, you hung up, Derek and I stood there and were like, what and we couldn't come up with why why why it made sense, but obviously, you know, everything drilling is is case by case, but like I said, it's it's it's gonna change everything about how you have to approach a project is based on the geology and the depth you want to go, so it's a scary thing. 01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:55.119 And I want I want to leave this with this as we wrap up that uh the world's greatest driller, Harry Stamper, and uh mad props to uh Bruce Willis in all of his roles, and you know it's um it is sad to see you know these these iconic Hollywood action heroes, you know, um become old, and we see that they're not bulletproof as John McClain or Harry Stamper or whatnot. 01:03:55.280 --> 01:04:05.599 And I think this is the the quote for the industry right now, and it starts with uh when Harry's talking to NASA and he's like, What's your contingency plan? 01:04:05.760 --> 01:04:15.599 He goes, I'm sure you got a team of men sitting around somewhere right now, just thinking shit up, and somebody backing them up, and you're telling me you don't have a backup plan? 01:04:15.840 --> 01:04:18.480 You gotta have some sort of backup plan, right? 01:04:19.679 --> 01:04:22.559 Billy Bob, we don't have a backup plan for this. 01:04:22.800 --> 01:04:29.360 And this is the best that you can do that the government, the US government could come up with. 01:04:29.519 --> 01:04:31.679 I mean, you're NASA for crying out loud. 01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:37.679 You're you put a man on the moon, you're geniuses, you're the guys thinking this stuff up. 01:04:39.679 --> 01:04:58.000 Like we we can we can take science and physics and I welcome oil and gas into this, I welcome

NASA into this, I welcome every bit of what we understand as microsecond reactions and developing this industry. 01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:26.239 But at the end of the day, as much as I want more textbooks and I want more advancement and virtual reality and all of this, it is a lot of fun to get those young individuals on the rig platform or with the remote in their hand and watch them get to create a hole and discover the unknown. 01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:30.000 Yeah, it's it it's rewarding. 01:05:30.880 --> 01:05:38.000 Uh it's also it's also a little humbling. 01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:45.360 I had a gentleman uh yesterday uh who drew the short stick, right? 01:05:45.760 --> 01:06:06.000 I had that we were we had we had groups out grouting, but I needed uh to go back and and pull casing and do some other stuff uh for a hole and that I'd that we had set down to rock and we'd done some coring and so I had to remove all the core pipe and all it wasn't really that much stuff. 01:06:06.320 --> 01:06:18.960 Um but you know after taking the the uh the core adapter and all that stuff off, and and he spinning case, and he's like, I can't feel my forearms, and I laughed. 01:06:19.039 --> 01:06:37.920 I go, Well, you only might have another 12 hours of this to do someday, and he's like, I go, you'll you'll get stronger, or you or you won't, but it's it's kind of fun that you know he goes, is it always like this? 01:06:38.079 --> 01:06:46.159 I'm like, well, yeah, there are times when I can't feel my forearms, but it just takes a lot longer before that happens. 01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:57.360 Um, you know, you're gonna you're gonna have those hard days, but seeing people willing to willing to meet that challenge, because he he was beat after that. 01:06:57.679 --> 01:06:59.599 And I'm like, you okay? 01:06:59.840 --> 01:07:02.880 And he's like, Yeah, I'm fine. 01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:08.159 I appreciate the opportunity to to do it though, to see it. 01:07:08.400 --> 01:07:12.320 And and I thought that was a that was a great response to that. 01:07:12.400 --> 01:07:15.920 I I appreciated the opportunity to do it, right? 01:07:16.239 --> 01:07:32.480 And and so hopefully when he gets to the job, and I believe he did wind up out with a uh uh I think he's out with a water well company, uh starting next week. 01:07:32.719 --> 01:07:37.199 And you know, he's gonna get a chance to run a chain wrench an awful lot. 01:07:37.360 --> 01:07:40.639 Uh he'll get he'll get used to it, you know. 01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:44.400 It but it's it's uh it's a rewarding thing. 01:07:44.719 --> 01:07:49.280 But with all with all the stuff going on, I'm excited. 01:07:49.599 --> 01:07:56.480 And uh I always am interested to see what what we're gonna do next, right? 01:07:56.639 --> 01:07:59.920 What is this next phase gonna be? 01:08:00.320 --> 01:08:29.199 Uh, you know, if you if you have a uh an idea or something you want to discuss with Brock and I, or you you have have just got off a project that like the ones we're talking about, where you approach something at a depth or in a way that that is not standard and you want to discuss it, you know, uh drop a line because we would love to discuss it. 01:08:29.439 --> 01:08:35.279 Brock and I don't don't uh pretend that we're the only ones that know anything about about anything. 01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:47.760 Uh so you know if you could if you want to discuss why you think that engineering uh deeper and deeper systems, and here's how it can be handled, I would love to have that discussion. 01:08:48.079 --> 01:08:48.960 I would too. 01:08:49.119 --> 01:08:51.520 And I think uh that is a great discussion. 01:08:51.600 --> 01:09:30.239 And as you talk chain wrench and where do we go, and one of the reasons why coil tubing is so um advantageous right now is the fact that we're not handling tooling as much and that repetitive stress injury, but I'm back to Harry Stamper, and I'm only as good as the people that are around me, and we need to get to a point where ergonomics and um engineered systems are removing us from needing that that type of monotonous work. 01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:45.039 And let's face it, as the oil and gas industry transitions into um geoexchange geothermal, there's not that many drillers, as there are a lot of really good people at working at heights and tripping pipe. 01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:52.079 And that's because that rig, 75% of its time is putting pipe in the hole or pulling pipe out of the hole. 01:09:52.239 --> 01:10:13.199 You know, it's so the the idea that we're just gonna go into normal Illinois and run holes as fast as we can, you know, it it goes back to that that test pilot running that SS 135 and listening to the bit chatter. 01:10:14.159 --> 01:10:15.920 Yeah, yeah. 01:10:16.319 --> 01:10:19.359 You were on an SS 135 on that project. 01:10:19.680 --> 01:10:22.640 Uh, there was the SS 135 on that project. 01:10:22.720 --> 01:10:25.680 It was a short wheelbase, it was a sweet little rig. 01:10:26.640 --> 01:10:28.239 Nice, nice. 01:10:28.319 --> 01:10:31.920 So, yeah, I had an SS 135 uh at Rocket Soul. 01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:33.119 That was one of our rigs. 01:10:33.279 --> 01:10:38.079 So uh anyway, that that's uh discussion for a different day. 01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:41.840 So uh it's been a pleasure, Brock. 01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:44.159 I I'm glad we're back doing this. 01:10:44.239 --> 01:10:49.520 It it was a fun discussion this morning, and uh no Wilson. 01:10:51.600 --> 01:10:55.039 He's Wilson, he's here, right? 01:10:55.279 --> 01:10:57.920 I just finished my coffee before we started talking about. 01:10:58.159 --> 01:11:18.319 Which uh, which son is the sign for far under or wants uh that's on, but and far under far under is uh is no longer, however, uh there's a new band being formed correct right now. 01:11:18.800 --> 01:11:31.520 Uh some of the members of Far Under are in the band, but uh Far Under, I think was has been like about a year or so since he said he didn't have time for it anymore. 01:11:31.600 --> 01:11:39.520 And then shortly after that, you know, he trained a replacement, and then shortly after that, the whole thing fell apart for him for those guys. 01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:47.600 So some of the people in Far Under, the drummer and the uh, I think the the lead guitarist are gonna be part of this new band. 01:11:47.760 --> 01:11:53.359 My my son said he's gonna play uh uh guitar on the new band, not bass. 01:11:53.439 --> 01:12:01.760 He's looking for a bass player capable of playing the stuff that he had put together, uh that which sounds odd from what he was telling me. 01:12:01.840 --> 01:12:06.880 He goes, it's not normal stuff, it's stuff that you really gotta get into. 01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:10.800 So we'll see what this new thing sounds like. 01:12:11.039 --> 01:12:12.960 Uh, I'm sure it will be heavy. 01:12:13.039 --> 01:12:14.479 That's all I can tell you. 01:12:15.279 --> 01:12:16.239 Well, I love it. 01:12:16.399 --> 01:12:22.720 Thanks, Dave, for your time, and uh we'll see you all in another week. 01:12:23.119 --> 01:12:24.720 All right, bye, everybody. 01:12:25.039 --> 01:12:25.840 Thanks. 01:12:26.239 --> 01:12:28.319 Thank you for listening to Drillercast. 01:12:28.399 --> 01:12:32.800 Please follow us on your favorite podcast platform or find us on social media. 01:12:32.960 --> 01:12:36.640 Next, connect with us at the driller.com. 01:12:36.720 --> 01:12:42.880 There's all kinds of great content there, and it's your best way to continue this discussion or initiate a new one. 01:12:43.119 --> 01:12:45.680 Come on the show, have a debate with us. 01:12:45.920 --> 01:12:50.560 The intro music is provided by Dave Bowers Sons band Far Under. 01:12:50.880 --> 01:13:13.119 Now, for the legal disclaimer, the views and opinions expressed on Thrillercast, the Brock and Dave Podcast, the bad podcast, are those of Brock Yordy and Dave Bowers, along with the opinions expressed by these hosts, their guests, other creators, drillers, helpers, and authors. 01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:28.640 And they do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of our employers or companies, groups, and associations we volunteer to work with or BMP media. 01:13:29.039 --> 01:13:50.319 Any content provided by our hosts, guests, bloggers, authors, drillers, helpers, field technicians, grouters, mud pan shovelers are of their own opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual, anyone, or anything, even that pesky sticky clay. 01:13:50.640 --> 01:13:58.960 We have the best intentions here at DrillerCast, and just like in drilling, sometimes the unexpected conditions arise, creating genuine discussions. 01:13:59.279 --> 01:14:04.319 Because yet again, nothing on the driller cast is scripted. 01:14:04.720 --> 01:14:05.520 Thanks everybody.