บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ 418 – Doomwatch – Train and De-Train

Quist, who's now back in the 00:02:18.684 --> 00:02:22.044 country, into not investigating his pesticide. 00:02:22.164 --> 00:02:24.864 Quist has no choice but to fire Wren. 00:02:25.044 --> 00:02:28.964 However, Quist knows that because Mitchell tried to leverage him with the tape, 00:02:29.184 --> 00:02:31.984 he does have something to hide. Ellis dies. 00:02:32.364 --> 00:02:37.024 Suicide. Later, both Wren and Mitchell receive copies of Ellis' suicide note. 00:02:37.204 --> 00:02:40.544 While Mitchell destroys his copy, Wren uses it to confront him, 00:02:40.704 --> 00:02:45.524 forces him to admit that he forced Ellis to perform unauthorized tests that Ellis had objected to. 00:02:45.724 --> 00:02:48.844 Mitchell is forced to cooperate, and he gives back the tape to Wren. 00:02:49.004 --> 00:02:53.844 There is justice in the world, as soon after, Mitchell loses his parking spot 00:02:53.844 --> 00:02:57.584 and isn't invited to important meetings. The D-train leaves Wren. 00:02:58.815 --> 00:03:01.755 You know, when we watched this episode, when I watched this episode, 00:03:01.975 --> 00:03:09.395 I suddenly remembered what it was that had happened when we were watching Doomwatch before. 00:03:09.795 --> 00:03:15.635 And I thought, maybe, maybe we won't go all the way through with this. 00:03:15.795 --> 00:03:18.315 And that was, there's not a whole lot of sci-fi in this. 00:03:18.495 --> 00:03:23.155 Thank you for saying that. In fact, I actually found this episode to be rather boring. 00:03:23.255 --> 00:03:28.475 It was just bureaucratic nonsense. Yeah, it was. 00:03:28.795 --> 00:03:31.935 Yeah, I mean, and so this may be a short one. 00:03:32.095 --> 00:03:37.435 I don't know. You know, obviously, we're still in the range of what Doomwatch is doing. 00:03:37.615 --> 00:03:41.595 And I suppose that, you know, episode after episode after episode, 00:03:41.835 --> 00:03:47.775 it could just be company comes out with new chemical company does some dodgy testing. 00:03:47.775 --> 00:03:50.715 Company wants to get the chemical out and not 00:03:50.715 --> 00:03:54.595 be bothered by regulators and doom 00:03:54.595 --> 00:04:01.235 watch saves the day over and and over and again and i i don't think it is but 00:04:01.235 --> 00:04:07.235 that that made that that bit of his plot was very just ordinary sort of government 00:04:07.235 --> 00:04:13.375 procedural sort of tv um and i don't think really, 00:04:13.535 --> 00:04:16.995 if you tried to put yourself in 1972, it was any different then. 00:04:16.995 --> 00:04:21.655 It's like, ooh, big chemical, you know, maybe, maybe that was a lot fresher 00:04:21.655 --> 00:04:23.295 in the mind of the public. 00:04:23.455 --> 00:04:26.715 I mean, now we just automatically assume that all companies do this. 00:04:26.835 --> 00:04:32.495 Maybe in the 1970s, early 70s, maybe we weren't as jaded. And maybe this was. 00:04:32.895 --> 00:04:35.235 You know, ooh, would they do that? Ooh, how terrible. 00:04:35.415 --> 00:04:38.215 This is a doomsday scenario. 00:04:38.555 --> 00:04:40.655 But I didn't get it. 00:04:41.080 --> 00:04:44.080 So I don't know. I didn't feel it at all. Yeah. 00:04:44.400 --> 00:04:49.760 So what I found very interesting was that to me, it seemed like, 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:53.420 what would you guess, 80% of the episode had to do with a pesticide? 00:04:55.000 --> 00:05:01.700 Well, if we're going to get into the plot element itself, then yeah, 00:05:01.900 --> 00:05:04.340 it has to do with the pesticide. 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:09.020 But really, I thought this really felt more like just a character study of Toby. 00:05:09.300 --> 00:05:13.360 Yes, I think there's a lot of that. But what I thought was interesting was the 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:16.040 name of the episode, Train and Detrain. 00:05:16.460 --> 00:05:21.620 Yeah, it's about the 20% of the non-main plot. 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:25.700 It's about how they treat the old chemist. 00:05:26.020 --> 00:05:32.100 And to be honest, I actually thought it was going to have something to do with trains. I really did. 00:05:32.300 --> 00:05:35.060 You know, the way you described in your synopsis, because I hadn't, 00:05:35.140 --> 00:05:37.400 obviously I've never seen this before. Yeah, me neither. 00:05:37.820 --> 00:05:41.580 So I had no idea what to expect. i hadn't even read the synopsis so 00:05:41.580 --> 00:05:44.420 i literally went into this thinking that this got something to do 00:05:44.420 --> 00:05:48.040 you know much like the last episode has something to do with this 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:52.440 this this engine that was creating havoc 00:05:52.440 --> 00:05:57.020 wrecking havoc with the red yeah yeah so i thought we're gonna have something 00:05:57.020 --> 00:06:04.500 like that now we've got this train that either through its power source or it 00:06:04.500 --> 00:06:08.600 maybe it's it's waste, you know, waste exhaust. 00:06:08.840 --> 00:06:11.620 Atomic coast to coast train, atomic train. 00:06:12.237 --> 00:06:16.017 Something like that. Where have I heard that idea before? I haven't, yeah, I can't imagine. 00:06:16.197 --> 00:06:18.977 I honestly thought that that's what we were going to be dealing with. 00:06:19.077 --> 00:06:24.597 And when I saw how the phrase train and detrain was used in this episode, 00:06:24.597 --> 00:06:27.897 I thought, oh, okay, that's clever. 00:06:28.137 --> 00:06:30.797 Should I be impressed or not? I haven't decided yet. 00:06:31.057 --> 00:06:34.177 And of course, it's never a term I've heard before. 00:06:34.657 --> 00:06:39.317 Not used in that respect. No, obviously train, yes. But detrain, no. 00:06:39.477 --> 00:06:44.057 I've never heard that phrase used before. I'm just accepting it on face value 00:06:44.057 --> 00:06:47.237 that that's what it means maybe over across the pond. 00:06:47.417 --> 00:06:51.017 And of course, they're implying that that's what it means across the pond on 00:06:51.017 -->

00:06:53.897 this side. That's what the Americans do. That is true. 00:06:54.177 --> 00:06:59.337 So I don't know. I did a little bit of- Well, I don't think it's a question of the phrase. 00:06:59.537 --> 00:07:05.357 I think it's more a matter of the policy about busting people down. 00:07:05.597 --> 00:07:11.237 Yeah, yeah. But not the phrase. I think the phrase sounds uniquely British, but I could be way wrong. 00:07:11.417 --> 00:07:14.397 Yeah, I know. we'd come up with something much more a lot 00:07:14.397 --> 00:07:17.637 more syllables honestly you know I mean it's like elevator versus 00:07:17.637 --> 00:07:20.597 lift and yeah we like those we 00:07:20.597 --> 00:07:27.837 like those complexicated sounds and stuff yeah you know the premise of Doomwatch 00:07:27.837 --> 00:07:34.897 is always painted as being you know cautionary tale about the progress quote 00:07:34.897 --> 00:07:39.577 unquote progress and what we're willing to do for it and go and. 00:07:40.054 --> 00:07:44.234 You could look at this and say, we're talking about the pesticides, but we're not. 00:07:44.414 --> 00:07:50.794 This episode is talking about the influence of American ideas on the British way of life. 00:07:51.014 --> 00:07:56.294 This American company has come in and bought this pesticide company. 00:07:56.534 --> 00:07:59.574 They've instituted these new management techniques. 00:07:59.714 --> 00:08:04.414 They've put pressure on them to perform. And so they're having to behave in 00:08:04.414 --> 00:08:09.514 a criminal fashion to keep up with their American master's expectations. 00:08:10.054 --> 00:08:17.554 With the tests and getting information out, and then also with the treatment 00:08:17.554 --> 00:08:22.274 of elderly workers and a topic that you and I, 00:08:22.494 --> 00:08:25.574 looking at this episode, can say, huh, 00:08:25.894 --> 00:08:29.054 we're in that age. Oh, that's true. 00:08:29.274 --> 00:08:35.874 And I will agree that that topic, or at least that particular store point, 00:08:36.014 --> 00:08:41.134 that bullet point of the episode, did resonate within me for that very reason. 00:08:41.294 --> 00:08:45.494 So I did a little research, very little research, but I did a little research. 00:08:46.234 --> 00:08:52.114 The Age Discrimination Act, sorry, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act 00:08:52.114 --> 00:08:54.854 of 1967 in the United States. 00:08:55.034 --> 00:09:01.534 And this is an act that prohibited some form of discrimination for workers over the age of 40. 00:09:01.694 --> 00:09:05.854 And I think it's interesting that they actually mentioned that age in this episode. 00:09:05.994 --> 00:09:08.434 Think in America, age 40, you'd be out of here. 00:09:08.874 --> 00:09:16.354 So I wish we had somebody who was, my heck, we're not old enough, right? 00:09:16.534 --> 00:09:20.254 I mean, we're old enough now, but in 1970. 00:09:20.834 --> 00:09:22.574 Oh, clearly not. At that time, no. 00:09:23.274 --> 00:09:28.354 You

and I would have no concept of the idea of how older workers in the United States were treated. 00:09:28.554 --> 00:09:34.054 No, of course not. And we would also have no idea how older workers were being treated in the UK. 00:09:34.534 --> 00:09:37.954 No, definitely not. Maybe they didn't do that to them. 00:09:38.074 --> 00:09:43.334 Maybe they weren't complete jerks to them and say, no, young youth. I mean, that is kind of a. 00:09:43.809 --> 00:09:49.449 That is kind of an American stereotype in British stuff about how we we covet 00:09:49.449 --> 00:09:55.089 youth and how we, you know, turn over things new, whereas Britain is old and stayed. 00:09:55.409 --> 00:10:00.409 And so you get you get people like Captain Peacock. 00:10:01.529 --> 00:10:05.189 Are you being served and whatnot with it? You know, you just rise up through 00:10:05.189 --> 00:10:09.089 the ranks and you just keep getting older and older and seniority counts for something. 00:10:09.669 --> 00:10:14.009 Whereas in the United States, it's like, get them out of here. New, fresh ideas. 00:10:14.329 --> 00:10:19.689 Chuck them out on the bin. So I'm wondering if this is truly in response to 00:10:19.689 --> 00:10:23.229 an actual influx at that time of that American attitude. 00:10:23.589 --> 00:10:29.309 It's possible. I think by that point, we were definitely, you know, 00:10:29.429 --> 00:10:35.969 our American corporate interests were definitely going across the ocean at that particular time. 00:10:35.969 --> 00:10:41.029 So it's very possible that maybe there was some kind of an influence being felt 00:10:41.029 --> 00:10:45.289 over in the UK, and it became a talking point. 00:10:45.589 --> 00:10:52.589 Yeah, so if that was the bugbear that the author wanted to expose, 00:10:52.589 --> 00:10:57.749 because Doomwatch is a show about exposing the dangers of progress, 00:10:57.989 --> 00:10:59.489 call it progress, but change. 00:10:59.489 --> 00:11:02.969 And usually that's in some sort of a science fiction element, 00:11:02.969 --> 00:11:06.189 and now it's more of a social one. They push social. 00:11:06.469 --> 00:11:10.689 And so what they had to do was they had to go, well, how would Doomwatch get involved with this? 00:11:10.769 --> 00:11:16.209 We're going to have to frame a story that would get them involved for some way. 00:11:16.309 --> 00:11:21.069 And so that's why the whole chemical story seems so periphery in this, 00:11:21.189 --> 00:11:23.829 even though it dominates the entire thing. 00:11:23.829 --> 00:11:27.989 And I think that makes this, I want to say an unsuccessful episode, 00:11:27.989 --> 00:11:36.189 but at the same time, you know, if I were, if I were living at that time and I was over the age of 40, 00:11:36.429 --> 00:11:39.149 I would watch this and I would have concerns, you know? 00:11:39.749 --> 00:11:42.229 Yeah, I suppose back then. It would make me think. 00:11:42.422 --> 00:11:50.162 I'm sure it would. Older workers still to this day

have discrimination against 00:11:50.162 --> 00:11:55.282 them, even though there's, you know, multiple more laws against discrimination 00:11:55.282 --> 00:11:56.622 that have come on the books. 00:11:57.142 --> 00:12:00.422 But it still exists. It still absolutely exists. Yes, of course. 00:12:00.422 --> 00:12:05.842 You know, if, if I, I couldn't go out and get a job, another job in, 00:12:05.842 --> 00:12:11.882 in IT, I don't think, you know, at, at, with, with 30 plus years of high level 00:12:11.882 --> 00:12:14.902 experience, you know, it just. Oh, I understand. 00:12:15.382 --> 00:12:18.402 It wouldn't, it wouldn't happen. I mean, I've been working, I've been working, 00:12:18.702 --> 00:12:22.482 you know, I've been working in healthcare for God knows how many years, same thing with Keith. 00:12:22.482 --> 00:12:27.802 And at our age, if we were to successfully find another job, 00:12:27.962 --> 00:12:30.502 it would be at a fraction of what we're making now. 00:12:30.882 --> 00:12:37.042 Yeah. And they would obviously want to hire younger people. Of course. Because they pay less. 00:12:38.162 --> 00:12:41.982 Precisely. So, I mean, it's... I wonder if it's... 00:12:42.549 --> 00:12:47.309 Is it the age or is it the pay? I mean, okay, it could be both. I think it's both. 00:12:47.589 --> 00:12:54.109 I think it depends on circumstances. I mean, I lost out on a possible promotion 00:12:54.109 --> 00:13:00.009 earlier this year within my company because of my salary of where I'm at right now. 00:13:00.189 --> 00:13:04.829 They had one position open and instead they hired somebody from off the street. 00:13:04.969 --> 00:13:09.229 And I found out it was because they could start that person off at a much lower 00:13:09.229 --> 00:13:15.449 rate than promoting me up because I've been with the company for, oh, good grief. 00:13:15.689 --> 00:13:20.129 I was hired 2005 here, and then that was 2018. So I've been with the company 00:13:20.129 --> 00:13:21.949 for 13 years. So my salary is pretty good. 00:13:22.329 --> 00:13:25.469 And if I had gotten that job, they would have had to increase it. 00:13:25.729 --> 00:13:29.289 However, keeping me where I'm at and bringing somebody fresh off the street 00:13:29.289 --> 00:13:31.309 allows them to save money. 00:13:31.489 --> 00:13:37.369 And there's something to be said for, and I'm trying to be fair on both sides of this issue. 00:13:37.969 --> 00:13:42.429 I'm setting my ways. I know it. Mm hmm. I flexibility. 00:13:42.849 --> 00:13:50.189 Yeah. You can look at this. You can look at this two ways. I have a ton of practical experience. 00:13:50.269 --> 00:13:53.929 I've seen things go wrong more ways than you can imagine. 00:13:54.149 --> 00:14:00.729 So when I see a project, I immediately eliminate so many avenues that you might 00:14:00.729 --> 00:14:03.989 explore because, yeah, I've seen that fail before. 00:14:05.029 --> 00:14:11.189 And a younger person with less experience could come in, less practical experience 00:14:11.189 --> 00:14:13.569 could come in and go, well, let's give that a try. 00:14:13.669 --> 00:14:16.769 And they might make it work because, you know, no ideas. 00:14:17.029 --> 00:14:20.149 Well, there are ideas that are completely unworkable, but I agree. 00:14:20.369 --> 00:14:22.669 You know, you're going to follow the path of least resistance. 00:14:22.849 --> 00:14:27.949 And so, you know, I don't I'm not trying to say stuck in my ways in a negative 00:14:27.949 --> 00:14:30.749 way, but but and I think we see that in Ellis here. 00:14:30.869 --> 00:14:33.869 He wants to do it the right way. He wants to do it the correct way. 00:14:34.132 --> 00:14:39.252 The way that he knows is right. He doesn't want to take shortcuts. 00:14:39.652 --> 00:14:44.632 And the situation, the management demands that he take shortcuts. Right. 00:14:44.972 --> 00:14:52.172 So, and would the younger guy in his office, would he be willing to do what 00:14:52.172 --> 00:14:54.692 the boss told him even if he knew it was wrong? 00:14:54.692 --> 00:15:00.052 I get the feeling he would, but he struck me as, you know, a youthful opportunist to me. 00:15:00.192 --> 00:15:04.952 And maybe it's because he does have that lack of experience that he hasn't built 00:15:04.952 --> 00:15:09.632 up all these, I don't want to call them safeguards, but this, 00:15:09.632 --> 00:15:11.872 this, this sense of proper procedure. 00:15:11.912 --> 00:15:16.972 Cause that usually comes about when you've been doing the job for a very long time. Yeah, yeah. 00:15:17.372 --> 00:15:23.072 And there's also less fear. When you're new on a job, you get the fear. 00:15:23.572 --> 00:15:29.172 I don't know how I'm doing. I don't know if I'm doing work that's adequate to 00:15:29.172 --> 00:15:31.412 the task. I don't know if they like me. 00:15:31.552 --> 00:15:34.512 Even if they give me good reviews, really, there's always that doubt. 00:15:34.632 --> 00:15:36.092 A little bit of paranoia, yeah. 00:15:36.272 --> 00:15:39.772 You get the feeling. It's like, no, I know what I'm doing. 00:15:40.252 --> 00:15:43.932 They know I know what I'm doing. And if you've been promoted, 00:15:44.232 --> 00:15:47.692 especially when you're kind of young and you get promoted up or brought into 00:15:47.692 --> 00:15:51.512 a position of some sort of respectability, if the boss tells you to jump, 00:15:51.672 --> 00:15:54.632 you're not only going to say how high, but you're going to then follow up with, 00:15:54.912 --> 00:15:56.452 and when may I come down, sir? 00:15:56.812 --> 00:16:00.632 Yep. And after a period of time, and I know I've done it, they tell you something, 00:16:00.832 --> 00:16:02.492 you ask questions. Oh, yeah. 00:16:02.752 --> 00:16:05.692 Yeah, I've reached that point too in my own job. So what about this? Uh-huh. 00:16:05.852 --> 00:16:09.192 Yeah, I've done that. And I think and I and I think you're right that that's 00:16:09.192 --> 00:16:13.532 a very

good point as far as this episode goes, that we're now seeing that little 00:16:13.532 --> 00:16:16.412 morality play at work here. 00:16:16.532 --> 00:16:23.012 So, I mean, there are interesting ideas in the story that just not necessarily science fiction ideas. 00:16:23.372 --> 00:16:26.092 And and no, it's more for just a standard old drama. 00:16:26.777 --> 00:16:29.797 But I guess that's the flexibility of this framework. I mean, 00:16:29.857 --> 00:16:33.717 I'm hoping to see more anthropomorphic rats in the future. 00:16:34.957 --> 00:16:37.937 I'm definitely hoping I see more anthropomorphic rats in the future. 00:16:38.077 --> 00:16:41.137 But today, we just didn't get that. 00:16:41.717 --> 00:16:46.277 So I got a few notes. Tried to come up with some stuff that I just wanted to put out there. 00:16:47.197 --> 00:16:52.137 Starting with, in big print, the hilarious dead squirrel. 00:16:52.497 --> 00:16:55.837 Oh, yeah. Look like a cardboard cutout at first. 00:16:56.297 --> 00:17:01.037 I was like, wow, could that be any more? I mean, oh yeah, now the animals are 00:17:01.037 --> 00:17:03.817 dying and they're being petrified at the same time. 00:17:04.037 --> 00:17:06.297 Yeah, that part was- Instant rigor mortis. 00:17:06.537 --> 00:17:10.057 That part was kind of weird because I think that- There's your science fiction. 00:17:10.077 --> 00:17:13.257 Was a stuffed squirrel holding a nut, right? Yeah. 00:17:13.597 --> 00:17:17.777 So he actually died and froze in spot eating a nut. 00:17:17.977 --> 00:17:21.677 And then when the kid goes up and he falls out like a brick. Plop. 00:17:22.477 --> 00:17:25.617 I thought that was going to be the cool part. Like this is going to be some 00:17:25.617 --> 00:17:30.677 cool science fiction killer that freezes you in in situ. 00:17:31.017 --> 00:17:35.757 And then it's like, yeah, there's going to be dead people in a cottage somewhere. What? No. 00:17:36.077 --> 00:17:39.037 Right. We get the dead animals out of the way and then it's gone. 00:17:40.277 --> 00:17:43.017 You talked about it being a character study for Toby Ren. 00:17:43.317 --> 00:17:46.877 Now, Toby is the youngest member of the team. At least he's the youngest, 00:17:47.217 --> 00:17:50.637 the newest member of the team, which is also kind of interesting. 00:17:51.397 --> 00:17:54.857 Now that we think about it since this is talking about people who've been on 00:17:54.857 --> 00:17:59.397 the job a long time there's a scene where he comes in at the very beginning 00:17:59.397 --> 00:18:04.057 Ridge is looking at bags of dead animals and Toby comes in talks to Bradley and he says 00:18:04.308 --> 00:18:09.248 It's got to be a new pesticide. And Bradley's like, well, I prefer to wait until we get the evidence. 00:18:09.468 --> 00:18:12.928 There is the difference between young and brash. Yeah. 00:18:13.528 --> 00:18:19.108 Now, yeah, we see it the other way around now. And we see what's wrong with, frankly, Toby's wrong. 00:18:19.288 --> 00:18:21.648 I mean, he's right, but he's wrong. 00:18:21.928 --> 00:18:24.228 He's not right in the way that he thinks he is. Yeah. 00:18:25.048 --> 00:18:29.448 And Bradley is correct that we should collect the evidence and continue on. 00:18:29.688 --> 00:18:31.288 That's the methodological way. 00:18:31.968 --> 00:18:38.768 Let's talk about the technique that the chemical company used to try to get rid of Ellis. 00:18:39.188 --> 00:18:45.688 Oh, intimidation of sorts. Yeah. They removed the carpet in his office. Okay. 00:18:46.108 --> 00:18:50.388 Yeah, that's a good one. They changed his secretary without any warning. 00:18:50.908 --> 00:18:55.788 They removed his phone. They reassigned his parking spot without telling him. 00:18:55.928 --> 00:19:00.608 This I thought was interesting. Now, I would point out that the first thought, 00:19:00.888 --> 00:19:03.328 I had two thoughts that ran through my head almost simultaneously. 00:19:03.848 --> 00:19:08.048 The first thought that ran through my head was, I got the feeling that they 00:19:08.048 --> 00:19:12.328 were trying to discourage him to the point of saying, I'm out of here. 00:19:12.488 --> 00:19:16.268 Yes. The second thought that followed up almost immediately was, 00:19:16.368 --> 00:19:19.848 I have never heard of this technique before. Not to this extreme. 00:19:20.108 --> 00:19:23.208 I haven't. Not to this extreme. No, I haven't heard of anything like this. Not like this. 00:19:23.208 --> 00:19:31.008 I mean, you can give them really cruddy jobs and you can assign work to them 00:19:31.008 --> 00:19:35.368 that they don't want to do and it's beneath them or things like that. 00:19:35.448 --> 00:19:38.428 But yeah, I've never heard anything like this. I almost thought... 00:19:38.804 --> 00:19:43.644 In my, hey, this has got to be science fiction. I almost thought that maybe 00:19:43.644 --> 00:19:44.964 everyone had forgotten. 00:19:45.184 --> 00:19:49.084 Yeah, I will admit that. Okay, thank you. That it was like a parallel universe thing. 00:19:49.144 --> 00:19:53.484 Actually, that was a third thought that did come in at some point later on. 00:19:53.544 --> 00:19:57.204 And I think that happened with the phone when he goes in there and notices that 00:19:57.204 --> 00:19:59.584 his phone is gone and he goes out to complain and he's like. 00:20:00.864 --> 00:20:05.844 And I thought, I will admit at one point, I thought parallel universe. 00:20:06.104 --> 00:20:08.964 And then I completely threw that out because then I realized how would that 00:20:08.964 --> 00:20:12.684 even fit into this yeah you've got a pesticide that's creating dimensional portals 00:20:12.684 --> 00:20:16.944 of course but then I thought well maybe it's making everybody forget, 00:20:17.484 --> 00:20:24.984 that I thought might work but darn no yeah except you know the guy should have 00:20:24.984 --> 00:20:28.684 if that had been the case then the guy that was in his spot wouldn't have

known 00:20:28.684 --> 00:20:31.164 him but yeah I was like this is weird OK, 00:20:31.524 --> 00:20:35.184 I would be of all the things that they did. 00:20:35.464 --> 00:20:41.304 Right. If they took my if they took my carpet thinking about my office that 00:20:41.304 --> 00:20:46.084 I used to have, if they took my carpet, I'd be like, why did you take my carpet? 00:20:46.284 --> 00:20:49.444 But I don't care. I don't spend a lot of time on the carpet. 00:20:49.664 --> 00:20:54.104 You know, some days at lunch, perhaps I'd lie down on the floor and turn the 00:20:54.104 --> 00:21:00.064 lights off in my office and and relax. Yeah, carpet did did seem like a really 00:21:00.064 --> 00:21:02.284 ridiculously trivial thing. 00:21:02.444 --> 00:21:07.224 It costs money to send someone in and remove and rip it up. Yeah. Right. 00:21:07.864 --> 00:21:12.584 They took his phone away. If someone had come into my office and taken my phone 00:21:12.584 --> 00:21:14.584 away, I'd have done a dance. 00:21:17.729 --> 00:21:23.349 Right like okay happy days i can send email of course they didn't have that option but, 00:21:24.049 --> 00:21:28.709 but uh but you know he has a secretary out there even if it's not the same secretary 00:21:28.709 --> 00:21:32.089 he's got a secretary call him up and tell him that they can't run this experiment 00:21:32.089 --> 00:21:36.729 or whatever it happens to be so i'd have been happy as a clam later on in the 00:21:36.729 --> 00:21:40.729 episode his wall disappears his whole cubicle yeah Yeah. 00:21:41.189 --> 00:21:45.849 Or think about the cost. Yeah. Think about the cost of having a crew come in 00:21:45.849 --> 00:21:52.329 to remove his wall just to give him the hint that we don't want you here. Mm hmm. 00:21:52.849 --> 00:21:56.309 Like, I don't think they figured out how to do this. I think the British have 00:21:56.309 --> 00:22:02.769 not quite got the hang of how to to screw over one of your employees and get them to leave. 00:22:02.949 --> 00:22:05.029 Well, they haven't fully embraced all of Western culture. 00:22:05.229 --> 00:22:07.329 I mean, they still do the worst Western movies imaginable. 00:22:08.389 --> 00:22:12.609 That's true. That's absolutely true. But I just don't think this is a cost-effective 00:22:12.609 --> 00:22:14.029 technique to get rid of a guy. 00:22:14.969 --> 00:22:18.069 We've already talked about the age 40 in the United States, so I think it's 00:22:18.069 --> 00:22:19.149 interesting that they mentioned this. 00:22:19.963 --> 00:22:26.323 Was the age, apparently. Wow. You know, I look back on when I was 40, 00:22:26.383 --> 00:22:33.583 and I think I was still in my game at 40. Oh, I was definitely in mine still. 00:22:33.803 --> 00:22:37.763 You know, but something else you need to consider, though, and I know that a 00:22:37.763 --> 00:22:42.263 lot of people, you know, they kind of say, you know, rather glibly about, you know. 00:22:43.343 --> 00:22:47.863 60 is the new 50, you know, things like that, you know, how with each successive 00:22:47.863 --> 00:22:51.803 generation or with today's generation, you can have a better quality of life, 00:22:51.963 --> 00:22:54.163 even though you're older than the previous generation. 00:22:54.883 --> 00:23:02.563 And yeah, there is a lot of glib use with that, but I think that there is some truth. 00:23:02.943 --> 00:23:07.343 I mean, obviously you had it. I definitely had it in my life. 00:23:07.723 --> 00:23:11.143 When I was in my forties, I was extremely productive. In fact, 00:23:11.283 --> 00:23:17.163 that was among probably my The most productive. Yeah, I think. 00:23:17.523 --> 00:23:22.083 Well, you know, there's a distinction. 00:23:22.583 --> 00:23:25.743 So I can say when I was in my 20s, single. 00:23:26.703 --> 00:23:31.463 At the time I was working for an insurance company. I was a coder. 00:23:32.377 --> 00:23:36.017 I was the manager of the IT systems, but I was all primarily a coder. 00:23:36.397 --> 00:23:40.097 And I worked 18 hours a day. Oh, yeah. 00:23:40.977 --> 00:23:44.177 No, I did something similar to that. 00:23:45.257 --> 00:23:50.477 Back, you know, in my early 40s, I was, oh, let me see, actually, 00:23:50.877 --> 00:23:58.657 no, no, more like my, oh, very, very late 30s, extremely late 30s. 00:23:58.657 --> 00:24:02.017 I was doing 12 hours a day. 00:24:02.677 --> 00:24:06.137 No, no, no. No, I take that back. I was doing 14 hours a day, 00:24:06.317 --> 00:24:07.097 Monday through Thursday. 00:24:07.677 --> 00:24:15.057 And on, oh shoot, something ridiculous, like 18 hours on Friday. 00:24:15.257 --> 00:24:17.457 And I did that for three and a half months. 00:24:17.717 --> 00:24:19.997 And I had all the energy in the world. 00:24:20.277 --> 00:24:24.437 Yeah. I mean, there's plenty of Dr. Pepper out there and Cheetos. 00:24:25.797 --> 00:24:32.557 I fueled on Cheetos and Dr. Pepper I know that's a programmer stereotype But 00:24:32.557 --> 00:24:40.577 I absolutely just I was at the keyboard all the time Fingers flying Typing away Working at the code, 00:24:41.110 --> 00:24:47.190 I know for a fact that whereas I could crank out far more lines of code when 00:24:47.190 --> 00:24:50.910 I was 20 and, you know, I, what was the point of going home? 00:24:51.050 --> 00:24:53.850 I mean, I had everything I would do at home. If I went home, 00:24:53.870 --> 00:24:56.170 I'd just be on the computer programming. 00:24:56.450 --> 00:25:01.650 So work on it. I wasn't getting paid for overtime. I was, I was just. 00:25:01.750 --> 00:25:02.770 Yeah, nothing better to do. 00:25:03.070 --> 00:25:05.870 I was just dedicated and stupid. 00:25:06.290 --> 00:25:10.310 And as you get older, you realize it ain't worth it. Mm-hmm. 00:25:11.830 --> 00:25:14.650 You pay me for eight hours a day i'll be here 00:25:14.650 --> 00:25:17.910 eight hours a day and i know that's that sounds like you're 00:25:17.910 --> 00:25:21.410 being lazy but it's not it's it's

00:25:21.410 --> 00:25:24.330 the reality of it they're paying you for eight hours 00:25:24.330 --> 00:25:27.170 a day and you shouldn't be giving them 00:25:27.170 --> 00:25:30.290 freebies and of course that attitude leads 00:25:30.290 --> 00:25:33.130 to them wanting to get rid of you if i can find somebody 00:25:33.130 --> 00:25:35.830 young and stupid who will work 18 hours a 00:25:35.830 --> 00:25:38.710 day for the same money why should i pay 00:25:38.710 --> 00:25:41.910 somebody who's but i was far more effective i 00:25:41.910 --> 00:25:46.210 had far more experience i had far more ability 00:25:46.210 --> 00:25:53.770 to see a problem that i'd seen before and and and crush it but it doesn't look 00:25:53.770 --> 00:25:58.870 like you're more effective when when somebody sees you typing continuously for 00:25:58.870 --> 00:26:04.390 18 hours or they see you thinking for four and typing for four. 00:26:05.050 --> 00:26:09.290 Oh, well, in my case, management loved it. Yeah, I was making overtime, 00:26:09.530 --> 00:26:10.510 but they loved the dedication. 00:26:10.530 --> 00:26:14.210 So I got promoted really fast after that. Oh, yeah. 00:26:14.490 --> 00:26:18.750 And I- So it worked for me. I think, I hate to mention the guy because he's 00:26:18.750 --> 00:26:21.310 such a jerk, but the Dilbert principle, I think, holds. 00:26:21.490 --> 00:26:25.770 You will be promoted until you reach the point where you're no longer uh competent 00:26:25.770 --> 00:26:31.470 and then oh promote it to uh promote it to the level of your incompetence. 00:26:32.441 --> 00:26:38.521 Yeah, that's actually a Mark Twain quote, I think, or something to that effect. 00:26:38.641 --> 00:26:39.981 But yeah, I know what you're talking about. 00:26:40.201 --> 00:26:43.721 Yeah, I believe it. I've seen it in a lot of places. 00:26:43.981 --> 00:26:48.041 Well, I've seen it too. I've seen it where I work. I'd like to think it didn't happen to me. 00:26:50.701 --> 00:26:54.781 I got promoted to the point where I was at the end of the career path for, 00:26:55.501 --> 00:26:59.501 you know, because if you're in IT, there is no path to management. 00:26:59.501 --> 00:27:04.101 I mean, you can be an IT management, but there's no path to the management of 00:27:04.101 --> 00:27:07.621 the business because the business is about something else. 00:27:07.841 --> 00:27:10.881 It's not about computers. It's not your area. So I don't know. 00:27:11.041 --> 00:27:17.601 Anyway, a deviation there. But I think I genuinely think that this episode raised 00:27:17.601 --> 00:27:19.521 a lot of interesting ideas. 00:27:19.721 --> 00:27:24.301 I didn't think it was a particularly interesting episode. if you're looking 00:27:24.301 --> 00:27:29.081 for a very deep and thoughtful episode, 00:27:29.081 --> 00:27:35.921 which admittedly some science fiction or speculative fiction is very good at doing. 00:27:36.261 --> 00:27:41.421 Yeah, this is, this did it, but doom patrol has been,

you know, 00:27:41.641 --> 00:27:44.261 for the most part, a rather, well, it, 00:27:44.861 --> 00:27:51.561 it has had some morality that was stretched to, to the point of transparency. 00:27:51.641 --> 00:27:56.881 Uh, through science fiction. But if you were looking for science fiction entertainment. 00:27:57.581 --> 00:27:59.561 This was not the episode for it. 00:27:59.841 --> 00:28:05.801 No, no. And I think Doomwatch is at its core, it's a morality play. 00:28:05.981 --> 00:28:08.781 Oh, yeah, it is. It is. It's all 00:28:08.781 --> 00:28:15.501 about Mary Shelley and thinking about the consequences of your actions. 00:28:15.841 --> 00:28:18.501 Crashing airplanes by turning rubber into goop. 00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:23.080 Actually, I think that's a terrible one. I mean, I really enjoyed that episode, 00:28:23.080 --> 00:28:25.020 but I think that's a terrible example. 00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:31.920 That is an incredibly good idea that should be absolutely pursued, right? Oh, I agree. 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:36.620 You are not going to convince me that that was a bad idea. The only thing that 00:28:36.620 --> 00:28:43.840 you can convince me of is that they really, really needed to be grade A strict 00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:46.380 in their quarantine and their work. 00:28:46.620 --> 00:28:51.920 And what they developed needed to be not so virulent, you know. 00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:57.960 But the Project Sahara episode where they were collecting all the data on people, 00:28:58.140 --> 00:29:02.520 which was very prescient in the computers for the government databases, 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:07.380 that one's about the morality of what you can do with technology. 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:12.680 And I think that's absolutely fair, even though it's dated by today's standards. 00:29:13.560 --> 00:29:18.060 That's a worthy topic to come up and say, what about this? 00:29:18.540 --> 00:29:21.960 You know, look at the people who are, what are they called? 00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:28.460 Bioethicists? The people who are looking at, you know, what are the implications 00:29:28.460 --> 00:29:36.160 of being able to edit genes in unborn children? You know, there's eliminate genetic defects. 00:29:36.820 --> 00:29:41.600 How can you argue against that? How can you say that's a bad thing? 00:29:41.740 --> 00:29:47.120 Especially if you're looking at, you know, eliminating Down syndrome or any 00:29:47.120 --> 00:29:49.900 other congenital birth defect that could come. 00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:55.000 Of course, manipulating the genetics pre-birth. 00:29:55.340 --> 00:29:58.020 But is stupid a congenital defect? No. 00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:02.680 To fix it, I mean, to fix it is a great thing. 00:30:02.860 --> 00:30:08.480 Well, no, I mean, the quality of being stupid is the quality of stupid in a genetic defect. 00:30:08.660 --> 00:30:11.480 I mean, if you knew the child was going to have the stupid gene, 00:30:11.660 --> 00:30:15.520 there is a stupid gene, fixing

that, improving that. 00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:18.340 And then there's the question of, well, if you did... 00:30:19.352 --> 00:30:26.152 I'm grossly oversimplifying this, but let's say there's a gene that you can 00:30:26.152 --> 00:30:30.272 express, and if you express it at one level, you get a stupid person. 00:30:30.272 --> 00:30:33.372 If you express it at another level, you get an average person. 00:30:33.592 --> 00:30:40.492 And if you express it at a higher level, you get an uber genius. is. Hmm. Yeah. 00:30:41.172 --> 00:30:44.412 You know, you look at it and go, oh, I see that your child's going to be 40 00:30:44.412 --> 00:30:47.972 percent lower than the average. 00:30:48.192 --> 00:30:52.572 So, you know, there's there's two options. We could fix that or he might grow 00:30:52.572 --> 00:30:57.352 up to be president of the United States because apparently that's what it takes these days. 00:30:58.372 --> 00:31:04.412 But I and then, you know, if I had an average child, we should be tempted to 00:31:04.412 --> 00:31:08.412 tweak it. Well, yeah, I could see that. I can see that. 00:31:08.732 --> 00:31:11.652 I absolutely would be tempted to tweak it. 00:31:11.912 --> 00:31:14.872 And I feel guilty about that. 00:31:15.032 --> 00:31:18.392 I feel guilty about it. And I don't know why I feel guilty about it. 00:31:18.512 --> 00:31:24.952 Because, you know, I guess maybe you might, and I put this to you, 00:31:25.192 --> 00:31:31.432 you might say, well, you know, God's got a plan. But I don't fall in that camp. There is no plan. 00:31:31.672 --> 00:31:35.772 So why wouldn't you make the kid the best of the best? 00:31:36.112 --> 00:31:39.972 Six foot eight. Well, that's the really gorgeous smart. 00:31:40.392 --> 00:31:44.372 That that's the evangelical argument. And I won't even know. Yeah. 00:31:45.272 --> 00:31:49.472 Not not not trying to not not trying to pigeonhole you and say you're an evangelical. 00:31:49.732 --> 00:31:52.412 I didn't. No, in fact, actually. No, no, I know what you're saying. 00:31:52.472 --> 00:31:55.152 In fact, I'd actually take the opposite tack on that and say, 00:31:55.272 --> 00:31:57.692 well, OK, I mean, if we're if we're going to go down that road, 00:31:57.752 --> 00:32:02.632 I say something to the effect of. well, you know, God also created science and 00:32:02.632 --> 00:32:04.672 we're using science to improve the quality of life. 00:32:04.872 --> 00:32:08.652 So therefore God created the improved, you know, improve the quality of life. Yeah. 00:32:09.152 --> 00:32:13.512 You know, that's just me. And then, and this is, this part even sucks more, right? 00:32:13.852 --> 00:32:16.532 First, you have the ethical question of whether or not you should make your 00:32:16.532 --> 00:32:20.432 kids smarter. Let's say you should, then you have the economic issue. 00:32:20.672 --> 00:32:22.812 Who's going to be able to afford to do that? 00:32:23.367 --> 00:32:28.847 That's when, yeah, well, and we've had science fiction movies that have touched on that point. 00:32:29.067 --> 00:32:33.327 Would that spread the gap even further? 00:32:33.607 --> 00:32:37.167 Would you create Eloy and the Morlocks? You know. 00:32:37.767 --> 00:32:42.747 Eventually, you know, eventually would. I mean, it's been, we've seen it in Star Trek episodes. 00:32:43.347 --> 00:32:48.807 There was a movie 15, 20 years ago that dealt with that. 00:32:48.927 --> 00:32:52.387 It's another telling of the haves and have-nots. 00:32:52.387 --> 00:32:55.307 So yeah yeah far cry 00:32:55.307 --> 00:32:58.367 from this episode but but nonetheless it brings 00:32:58.367 --> 00:33:01.347 up those ideas to me and that's i i think i 00:33:01.347 --> 00:33:04.147 think sometimes the best television does that even if i 00:33:04.147 --> 00:33:08.427 just didn't really care for the episode and that's that's really kind of kind 00:33:08.427 --> 00:33:15.927 of funny let's see i we can't we can't pass by without mentioning the fact that 00:33:15.927 --> 00:33:22.007 mr mitchell receives ellis's suicide note and if If the man had had a mustache, 00:33:22.007 --> 00:33:23.927 he would have twirled at that moment. 00:33:24.347 --> 00:33:30.247 Because he lit his cigar with it. Yeah, and smirked. He laughed at it. 00:33:30.884 --> 00:33:37.164 Has anyone ever done that in real life? I mean, somebody take a note. 00:33:37.564 --> 00:33:41.904 It was so cliche. I'm going to light my cigar. A suicide note. 00:33:42.164 --> 00:33:46.524 I mean, they really reduced Mitchell into just a caricature by doing that. 00:33:46.644 --> 00:33:48.204 It was so beyond the pale. 00:33:48.584 --> 00:33:54.724 But I mean, to what end? I mean, what were they trying to tell us by doing such a thing? Yeah. 00:33:55.104 --> 00:33:57.684 I mean, if he just- Because that was, it was too far. I mean, 00:33:57.784 --> 00:34:02.244 if they just wanted to let him, you know, or just convey that Mitchell didn't 00:34:02.244 --> 00:34:07.244 care or, you know, just was like, you know, you know, good riddance to bad rubbish kind of thing. 00:34:07.464 --> 00:34:08.984 You know, there are so many other things he could have done. 00:34:09.064 --> 00:34:11.084 He could have just torn it up and thrown it into the garbage. 00:34:11.364 --> 00:34:12.604 He could have just burned it. Yeah. 00:34:13.004 --> 00:34:15.544 You know, then fine. If he reached over and burned it and tossed it in the garbage 00:34:15.544 --> 00:34:19.744 can, it's like, I'm getting rid of the evidence that this ever came in. 00:34:19.984 --> 00:34:23.644 I'm covering up. But by lighting his cigar with it, 00:34:24.044 --> 00:34:30.484 he's sort of making a metaphor that my success, 00:34:30.704 --> 00:34:43.344 because for some stupid reason, cigars are seen as a sign of success in television and movies and society. 00:34:43.744 --> 00:34:49.184 You know, fat cats are the ones that smoke cigars when I think it's just stinky 00:34:49.184 --> 00:34:51.164 people

smoke cigars. Thank you. 00:34:52.751 --> 00:34:59.611 The road to my success is paved over the dead torture and misery of this poor 00:34:59.611 --> 00:35:01.591 man that I drove to death. 00:35:01.751 --> 00:35:05.831 And he can't make any other conclusion than he drove him to die. 00:35:06.071 --> 00:35:09.771 So, yeah, Mitchell is quite a piece of work. 00:35:11.151 --> 00:35:14.971 Yeah. Yeah, I didn't particularly like that. 00:35:15.151 --> 00:35:19.891 What I did think was poorly done in the story, if that wasn't considered poorly 00:35:19.891 --> 00:35:25.211 done. At the end, Mitchell comes in and the chemist dude has his parking spot. 00:35:25.471 --> 00:35:33.411 Now, first off, I mean, maybe. I think there was a sort of hierarchy at my work 00:35:33.411 --> 00:35:40.451 where the director got the first spot because I guess they're too lazy to walk as far. 00:35:40.631 --> 00:35:44.191 I'm guessing that's what it is. Oh, yeah. The closer to the door, 00:35:44.391 --> 00:35:48.551 then the more important you are. And... 00:35:49.951 --> 00:35:54.011 So, you know, but but the other guy just got a parking spot. 00:35:54.011 --> 00:35:58.691 He doesn't need he doesn't need the head guy's parking spot. 00:35:58.971 --> 00:36:03.831 But think about it. He was a junior chemist at the beginning of this episode. 00:36:03.831 --> 00:36:08.391 He got promoted to senior chemist, presumably not on his merit, 00:36:08.671 --> 00:36:12.451 but on the fact that he was there and they wanted to bump Ellis out. 00:36:12.631 --> 00:36:17.291 And now he's looks like he's being promoted to Mitchell's job at the end of 00:36:17.291 --> 00:36:19.891 this. Is he even qualified for Mitchell's job? 00:36:20.091 --> 00:36:24.451 Probably not. I don't think Mitchell's a chemist, right? I mean, he's management type. 00:36:24.651 --> 00:36:28.731 Right. It's just like I was saying, you know, in my work, you could, 00:36:28.891 --> 00:36:32.991 if I were a chemist, chief chemist is as far as you're going to go in that company. 00:36:33.351 --> 00:36:38.991 You're not going to move over into finance. You're not going to move over into the legal department. 00:36:39.191 --> 00:36:42.971 You're not going to move over into upper management. That's people whose job 00:36:42.971 --> 00:36:49.391 it is to run a company and drive a business and make contracts and deals and 00:36:49.391 --> 00:36:54.251 get supply chains working and not a head chemist. And it's a mistake. 00:36:54.391 --> 00:36:57.331 And there is the Dilbert principle in action. 00:36:57.331 --> 00:37:01.811 If you did promote the chief chemist to be the CIO or whatever, 00:37:02.091 --> 00:37:06.531 or CEO of the corporation, you would have promoted him into a position he's 00:37:06.531 --> 00:37:09.511 not qualified for. You would hit his point of incompetence. 00:37:10.648 --> 00:37:14.608 You're right, but that's something that we've, you know. It's definitely what 00:37:14.608 --> 00:37:15.828 they imply in this episode. 00:37:16.088 --> 00:37:19.288 Yeah, but is that another indictment against the American business model? 00:37:19.468 --> 00:37:22.908 I think a lot of this is an indictment against the American business model, 00:37:22.908 --> 00:37:30.208 because doing the tests surreptitiously seems to be something that the Americans expected them to do. 00:37:31.068 --> 00:37:36.888 Stonewalling the regulatory agency seems to be something that their Americans want them to do. 00:37:37.268 --> 00:37:40.308 Or at least it's mitchell's interpretation of 00:37:40.308 --> 00:37:44.688 what the americans want them to do so yeah this 00:37:44.688 --> 00:37:50.848 this is this is a very anti-american show i i i i think and and i would you 00:37:50.848 --> 00:37:54.948 know would you could you even do this episode now i mean obviously the whole 00:37:54.948 --> 00:37:59.308 pesticide killing thing sure we're still doing that is it does is this the way 00:37:59.308 --> 00:38:04.668 age discrimination works now i hope not i hope not no i hope not anyway. 00:38:05.848 --> 00:38:08.808 That's all i got i don't have anything else that's all 00:38:08.808 --> 00:38:11.708 i got so i mean that that does kind of that does 00:38:11.708 --> 00:38:14.608 kind of make it uh short but then 00:38:14.608 --> 00:38:17.468 hey we're not beholden we can 00:38:17.468 --> 00:38:21.188 make these as short as we want to i don't 00:38:21.188 --> 00:38:24.408 know what the next episode of uh doom watch is 00:38:24.408 --> 00:38:28.168 off the top of my head so you'll 00:38:28.168 --> 00:38:31.268 just have to listen as you'll just have to look at the list of episodes 00:38:31.268 --> 00:38:34.268 that are out there and and 00:38:34.268 --> 00:38:41.108 look it up and find out for next time but we are gonna we are at the very least 00:38:41.108 --> 00:38:47.288 we're gonna clear out through series one of of doom watch and then who knows 00:38:47.288 --> 00:38:51.408 i don't know it's gonna depend on how it goes i mean if they're all not science 00:38:51.408 --> 00:38:53.528 fiction we might might say. 00:38:54.542 --> 00:38:58.042 Ah, it is. The episode is You Killed Toby Wren. 00:38:58.282 --> 00:39:01.462 That's the next one. I thought there was the battery people. 00:39:01.622 --> 00:39:04.842 Well, that's what's showing up on April 1, actually. 00:39:05.082 --> 00:39:09.002 Maybe. Did I go too far? I think there's one called the battery people. 00:39:09.222 --> 00:39:11.442 Oh, you're right. Yes, the battery people. That is next. 00:39:11.762 --> 00:39:17.842 See, that sounds like people who've been fitted with electronic prostheses, 00:39:18.362 --> 00:39:20.982 and now they've been turned into killing machines. 00:39:21.382 --> 00:39:25.162 So we're going to find out. my prediction 00:39:25.162 --> 00:39:27.902 is right oh the doom watch yeah doom watch 00:39:27.902 --> 00:39:31.602 version of a cyberman or cybernaut british definitely 00:39:31.602 --> 00:39:35.182 cybernauts i think so and remember 00:39:35.182 --> 00:39:38.362 jerry davis and kit peddler who are the the force 00:39:38.362 --> 00:39:42.322 behind this show are of course the people who created the cybermen so that is 00:39:42.322 --> 00:39:47.202 true that this is their milieu well ben thank you for joining me oh sure thing 00:39:47.202 --> 00:39:52.362 and i'm gonna go rest my old bones in front of the fire and think about the 00:39:52.362 --> 00:39:55.702 old days when I was young and dynamic. 00:39:57.222 --> 00:40:03.242 Listeners, I do hope you'll join us all again next time on Fusion Patrol. 00:40:04.442 --> 00:40:06.722 Cheers, you young snappers! 00:40:11.122 --> 00:40:15.042 You've been listening to Fusion Patrol, a listener-supported podcast. 00:40:15.302 --> 00:40:18.342 Find out how you can be a sponsor and get early access 00:40:18.342 --> 00:40:22.282 to all episodes and more at patreon.com slash 00:40:22.282 --> 00:40:30.382 fusion patrol come join the conversation on facebook or twitter all episodes 00:40:30.382 --> 00:40:37.002 are available at fusion patrol.com our music is fight the future by amber wolf 00:40:37.002 --> 00:40:40.802 this has been a lone locust production.