บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Walking Between Two Worlds: Wayapa, Identity and the Grief of Reconnecting to Country with Nikki Domeney

familiar with. 00:06:27.939 --> 00:06:31.700 And if you can just explain it, the self-sovereignty. 00:06:31.939 --> 00:06:34.580 What do you refer to when you talk about that? 00:06:35.060 --> 00:06:46.100 It's returning to yourself and being advocates of yourself in a world that's really loud and telling us how we should be or how we've been conditioned as we've grown up. 00:06:46.340 --> 00:06:52.819 It actually you get to a point where you realize that's actually not the core of who you are. 00:06:53.140 --> 00:06:59.060 Not all, but I work with a lot of individuals who on their cultural path trying to work out what it means to them. 00:06:59.300 --> 00:07:04.740 Another example, I went on country with my daughter at the beginning of the year, which was a really profound moment. 00:07:04.819 --> 00:07:18.420 And it was kind of a way of me helping reclaim what was stolen, being supported on country, and then saying to my daughter, it's really good to know where you've come from, to know where you might want to go. 00:07:18.580 --> 00:07:19.939 It may not inform you. 00:07:20.020 --> 00:07:22.259 It might inform you that you don't want to go down that path. 00:07:22.340 --> 00:07:26.180 You don't identify as indigenous, you know, it doesn't resonate with you. 00:07:26.259 --> 00:07:29.540 But as a little girl, I always had this feeling of something. 00:07:29.620 --> 00:07:36.500 I saw the world from a lens that I didn't have a kind of anything to bounce off because I wasn't brought up with country and culture. 00:07:36.580 --> 00:07:39.540 But that that's what underlining when I'm in these places. 00:07:39.700 --> 00:07:56.900 So for me, my own journey of art is who did I try to be to fit into society or the pressures that you have from family members who see you a certain way to actually reclaim the version of me that I missed out on. 00:07:57.060 --> 00:08:13.780 And if I can do that work with especially young people to have capacity and the tools to determine that sort of thing for themselves, I think the greater we are with supporting one another in terms of that inclusive and diversity piece, whether it's in business, community, home. 00:08:14.020 --> 00:08:14.420 Yeah. 00:08:14.740 --> 00:08:22.420 And tell me, you as a young child felt that you always you describe it looking at through a different lens. 00:08:23.060 --> 00:08:33.139 When was it that you discovered that you had that indigenous connection and how did it impact how you viewed your identity and your life prior to that? 00:08:33.299 --> 00:08:34.659 Like talk us through that. 00:08:34.980 --> 00:08:36.179 Yeah, it was an interesting time. 00:08:36.259 --> 00:08:37.860 I was at a bit of a crossroads. 00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:44.019 I found out probably about 18 months before I actually made separated from my son's dad, actually. 00:08:44.100 --> 00:08:54.819 And I say that because I was already starting to recognise that I was trying to fit myself into something that actually was

a was reporting that's a sovereign journey for myself. 00:08:55.059 --> 00:09:04.980 For me, I found out about my indigenous heritage and learned that my mum had connected with my mob about 18 months before she passed. 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:12.580 And I it just there was this moment of clarity and ah, like that makes sense. 00:09:12.819 --> 00:09:13.939 That really makes sense. 00:09:14.100 --> 00:09:20.500 However, it wasn't linear, it wasn't like all of a sudden I was racing to try to claim that. 00:09:20.740 --> 00:09:32.019 There was this confusion around what I was entitled to in terms of I hadn't been brought up with the same challenges of people who have been on country, the fact that my skin is doesn't look indigenous. 00:09:32.419 --> 00:09:36.899 There's a whole lot of those things that I had to unpack myself to get to the point. 00:09:36.980 --> 00:09:40.659 And so I met my great mob on my mum's deathbed. 00:09:40.899 --> 00:09:42.899 And I was really single mum. 00:09:42.980 --> 00:09:44.740 I had my two children with me. 00:09:45.300 --> 00:09:52.740 And yeah, through that process, interestingly enough, just before mum passed away, we had this call from my sister. 00:09:52.899 --> 00:09:58.899 The four four of us got on a call because my dad, my stepdad said, Oh, look, I think this is serious, it's this torrent, so mum was sick. 00:09:59.139 --> 00:10:04.580 And we're getting, I think, sick, she was disconnected from culture because she didn't know her mum. 00:10:04.740 --> 00:10:12.580 So she had trauma and she had physical ailments that meant her quality of life had been reduced because of these experiences. 00:10:12.740 --> 00:10:18.820 So, anyway, she we get the call from my stepdad, and he says, I think this one's serious. 00:10:18.899 --> 00:10:24.259 So we're on the call with my three siblings, and my older sister says, Nick, can you stay on the line? 00:10:24.420 --> 00:10:27.060 As as we were about to close the call, and I said, sure. 00:10:27.139 --> 00:10:30.580 And then she just said to me, Is this happening? 00:10:30.740 --> 00:10:32.580 And so she's five years older than me. 00:10:32.740 --> 00:10:45.779 And in that moment, in reflection, what I realized was that she had always relied on that spiritual part of me, this intuitive part of me that kind of knew she was seeking guidance from a kid's sister as to whether this this was the end for my mum. 00:10:45.860 --> 00:10:46.980 And I was saying she's passing. 00:10:47.300 --> 00:10:48.740 And I knew it wholeheartedly. 00:10:48.980 --> 00:10:55.779 But I grew up as a little girl having that kind of wisdom and intuitive knowledge, and yet had nowhere to put it. 00:10:55.860 --> 00:11:06.740 So to reclaim that and now be in faces, going on country and be celebrated and take this knowledge and take it back has been like the prevent like a feeling of coming home. 00:11:06.980 --> 00:11:08.180 So yeah. 00:11:08.899 --> 00:11:12.500 And I feel that there's a lot of people feeling that displacement. 00:11:12.580 --> 00:11:14.019 What would I would ever call Jack? 00:11:14.259 --> 00:11:32.019 And some of the work that I do with the way up in particular, I've had amazing participants who have done that, that have been able to connect to parts of themselves in a different from India or they could they can identify with an element that brought them back to what they knew, but then they're also reclaiming what the sovereignty looks like them here in Australia. 00:11:32.259 --> 00:11:34.340 So yeah, it's a bit of my journey. 00:11:34.980 --> 00:11:46.500 And so talk to me about the sort of level of spirituality that you felt that had clearly your older sister had identified in you early on. 00:11:46.659 --> 00:11:52.500 And how do you think that has changed as you've gone through the work and especially Way Upper as well? 00:11:52.899 --> 00:11:58.259 Yeah, so I when I went on country for the first time, I wasn't actually sure. 00:11:58.420 --> 00:12:02.420 I didn't want to put any expectation on this idea that I'd feel different. 00:12:02.659 --> 00:12:08.659 People that I know that have been on this journey have said that you will feel different, but I just went with a real open mind. 00:12:08.740 --> 00:12:18.740 And then when I literally put my foot on the dirt in Dira Bandy where my mum, my grandmother's birthing trees and the ceremony where place with the burial ground and all that. 00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:21.220 And my cousin actually saying, Can you do feel different? 00:12:21.379 --> 00:12:31.060 And even in that moment when she was asking me, she was kind of allowing me to actually feel and I did, I felt this real connection to the earth. 00:12:31.139 --> 00:12:41.940 And so all of a sudden, this sense that I had as a little girl didn't seem like it was was weird because I grew up thinking I had two hands because I had nowhere to put it. 00:12:42.019 --> 00:12:49.379 And so here's my cousin giving me permission to ask me to connect to that earth and to tell me what she felt, what I felt. 00:12:49.460 --> 00:12:52.659 And so in that moment, it was it was like, yeah, coming home. 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:58.019 And so with the way up will work, what's really beautiful is it's an earth mindful connection practice. 00:12:58.180 --> 00:13:14.899 So the we there's a lot of mindful practices out there that I just I endorse and I also practice, but there's something about the capacity to use these elements from being the tree with solid roots and then the trunk and feeling really solid, and then just feeling that connection to earth. 00:13:15.139 --> 00:13:31.940 And then one of the other things like I was just sharing recently, I'm in I live in Brunswick and quite built up, and we there's a childcare center up the road, and I've just walked the dog over the course of maybe eight months, and there's this tree, a little branch that's sticking out of the side of the building. 00:13:32.500 --> 00:13:38.100 And each time I

go for a walk, what I'm noticing is that tree is actually growing outside. 00:13:38.340 --> 00:13:47.220 It's gotten bigger and bigger, and in those moments, it helps me connect to the fact that we are larger than the fear that we have around climate change. 00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:53.539 I'm not saying that's not real, but it it mirrors back to you the resilience Mother Earth, Father Sky has. 00:13:53.940 --> 00:14:00.340 Yeah, and I think I always had a deeper connection to those things, so it's just helped me return to it and help others. 00:14:00.820 --> 00:14:03.460 You described it then as two heads. 00:14:03.860 --> 00:14:04.180 Yeah. 00:14:05.300 --> 00:14:06.420 Like weird. 00:14:06.659 --> 00:14:08.340 Like, why do I feel different? 00:14:08.500 --> 00:14:23.700 Why is it that I grew up in Wyndhamdale, which is in Werby, and it was a little, it was a little little suburb at the time, and yeah, I just always had this feeling that there was something more, and I would say that to mum. 00:14:23.779 --> 00:14:40.019 And the beautiful thing that happened when I was doing the way upilitation, I remember each morning we'd come back and have reflection, and this one morning I was able to say, I feel like I've been able to distinguish between what my grandmother's grief was, what my mum's was, and what mine is. 00:14:40.180 --> 00:14:43.860 It was like sort of being parted ways in the in this work that we were doing. 00:14:44.420 --> 00:14:47.940 And not no one in that room looked at me like I had two heads. 00:14:48.019 --> 00:14:56.500 They were just nodding, like they understood that's actually part of celebrating and recognizing that spiritual part of myself. 00:14:56.580 --> 00:14:57.379 And yeah. 00:14:57.940 --> 00:15:11.060 Because we know research clearly tells us, and also the work of epigenetics is always actually telling us more things as we we evolve that intergenerational trauma is a thing. 00:15:11.220 --> 00:15:16.019 It is real, it is something that you can feel, and it does change your genetic makeup. 00:15:16.340 --> 00:15:29.620 And so when you had this moment of clarity distinguishing the trauma that your grandmother, your mother, and then yourself experienced, is that something you can elaborate on just to give us some insight to that? 00:15:30.100 --> 00:15:33.860 Yeah, so what I'm loving is the more that I do this more work. 00:15:34.019 --> 00:15:38.019 I'm also doing some work with a company called First Nations Incursions. 00:15:38.180 --> 00:15:50.899 It's an anti-racism grant workshop for teachers to help them navigate around this climate of anti-racism and how yeah, and so I'm by facilitating that with Gunga Giri and Uncle Mark Brown. 00:15:51.460 --> 00:15:53.300 And it that's one of the topics. 00:15:53.460 --> 00:16:04.340 And so it it you're yeah, so I can't your nervous system is real goes back to if you have a look, there's some some research that just suggests that I was in my grandmother's womb. 00:16:04.580

--> 00:16:13.620 So I therefore, because I was in my mum's wound and then perceived that that by way of the DNA has impacted my nervous system. 00:16:13.779 --> 00:16:14.420 Yeah. 00:16:15.139 --> 00:16:21.779 And knowing that has actually been really validating because it means that I have now strategies to deal with that. 00:16:21.940 --> 00:16:25.539 In Weappa, we talk about as being cellular memory. 00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:38.259 So there's a there's this beautiful thing about the eel, for instance, that that travels up from the south to the north, has its babies, and then those babies, without the guidance from the mum, knows how to make its way back. 00:16:38.420 --> 00:16:40.340 So we all have this beautiful gift. 00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:44.340 So there's intergenerational trauma, but there's some beautiful qualities around that as well. 00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:51.060 What I do know is that I've done quite a lot of work to try to say it's not here with me, so my children don't have it. 00:16:51.300 --> 00:16:55.700 But the reality is it sits in our bone bodies like it's thousands and thousands of years. 00:16:55.860 --> 00:17:00.019 So most of us are carrying some sort of intergenerational. 00:17:00.580 --> 00:17:08.180 I'm gonna say trauma, because I think there's a lot of us that are navigating unconsciously those sort of things that are in our nervous system. 00:17:08.259 --> 00:17:10.579 So it affects how we shop every day. 00:17:10.740 --> 00:17:21.539 And now that I'm more aware of it and we're having discussions around it in forums, normalizing it, it just leads to capacity to to be kind to it to actually understand where it comes from. 00:17:21.700 --> 00:17:22.339 Yeah. 00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:28.259 Because when you think about it, it's like having an inherited medical condition. 00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:29.859 Exactly the same. 00:17:30.099 --> 00:17:32.740 But yeah, Western medicine didn't necessarily look at it that way. 00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:35.539 But as you said, there's so much more going on about it. 00:17:35.779 --> 00:17:40.899 So it is, it's invisible, it's not something that you can tap into. 00:17:41.059 --> 00:17:46.420 So that's the other reason why it's really important to know where you come from to help claim where you want to go with it. 00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:48.819 Because yeah, it's a real thing. 00:17:49.460 --> 00:17:51.139 Science is backing it up now. 00:17:51.940 --> 00:17:58.819 And Nikki, your mum only found out a short time before she died where she came from. 00:17:59.220 --> 00:18:02.500 Do you mind sharing that story with us and how she found out? 00:18:02.899 --> 00:18:07.220 Yeah, so it was just like trying to my brother-in-law was doing a family tree. 00:18:08.259 --> 00:18:14.259 And he just was able to piece it all together and then share that with mum. 00:18:14.420 --> 00:18:18.819 But then he then went on to actually try to contact these people through Facebook. 00:18:18.980 --> 00:19:03.960 So

social media had to place. 00:19:05.320 --> 00:19:07.559 And he was he was received really well. 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:13.799 My my cousin was like, yeah, I know who she is, I know her her mum. 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:18.360 And so that was happening in the background. 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:20.840 So she she done all up in Queensland. 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:29.559 So yeah, they came to visit mum a couple of times, and for her, I think it gave her a sense of clarity. 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:33.160 She grew up not knowing why her mum had left. 00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:36.920 We believe it's suicide or an overdose, but we're we're on that journey. 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.320 Sort of Mark Rain Tasmania, which I've visited a couple of times. 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:55.080 So for her, I think before she passed and having them on on you know, as she passed was such a beautiful kind of way of her being held by her ancestors as well. 00:19:55.559 --> 00:20:05.160 Yeah, it was actually very significant, and again, can't help but feel like the ancestors were up there leading her home and yeah, it's pretty, pretty profound. 00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:07.000 I think she was at peak. 00:20:08.360 --> 00:20:18.600 And so prior to this research that was being done into your family history, did your mum have any idea where she'd come from? 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.360 Did she have any connection with direct correct connection with her mother? 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:34.200 No, no, and it's really interesting because we used to think that mum because she had this dark skin, and we couldn't place it because we just thought we had Scottish and Irish. 00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:41.960 But here she was with this this this brown skin, or we know so she had no no no idea. 00:20:42.120 --> 00:20:47.240 She never mentioned that she felt a thing, but I used to say to her, I feel a thing without knowing. 00:20:47.320 --> 00:20:49.480 And she goes, I know, but yeah, that was it. 00:20:49.720 --> 00:21:00.840 And I think it was quite traumatizing for her because she was bought in and out brought up by my grandfather, but he was he was the same, so he was away a lot of the time. 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:06.440 So she was pretty much in and out of foster care, and she'd experienced some pretty horrendous things there. 00:21:06.600 --> 00:21:09.799 So she didn't really have that place that she called home. 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:14.519 Yeah, and I again I can see how that affected. 00:21:15.080 --> 00:21:35.320 Now I understand that my grandmother we we think that she's come over to Tasmania because she was in love with my grandfather, but soon after she has two children, she's felt displaced because she's way away from her country and she leaves her two children, toddler and infancy stage, and we know she passed away soon after. 00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:37.880 So that says a lot, I think. 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:38.759 But yeah. 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:45.160 And when you made that connection, where was that connection to country? 00:21:45.320 --> 00:21:46.680 Where was her mob from? 00:21:46.840 --> 00:21:52.440 Uh Gamilleroy, which is it's quite a big country up north, and sits all New South Wales as well. 00:21:53.080 --> 00:22:06.440 The town that she's from, where my grandmother's birthing trees, where they did dance, is in a place called Girivanti, which is I drove from Brisbane with my daughter five five hours from Brisbane in in woods. 00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:13.480 And it's really interesting because when my cousin came through the door, but through in itself, but she looked like my mum, it was just uncanny. 00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:29.160 Yeah, so it's interesting that mum found her resting place up in Queensland because she'd been in Tasmania, then moved to Melbourne, and then in the 1990s, I think it was, because of her health, decided to move up north because it was better to her lungs and things. 00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:35.559 So I don't know, it was lovely that some of her people were able to just drive to her to visit. 00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:36.039 Yeah. 00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:41.960 I think that was an interesting thing that she ended up backing north closer to her room. 00:22:43.080 --> 00:22:56.039 And when your mum knew that she was going to die, what impact did that have on her connecting to country? 00:22:56.360 --> 00:22:59.240 Yeah, I feel like that was missed for her. 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:10.680 Mum was always in the garden, she was always connected to that, but you know, and moving up north was about the weather, it was about being in much fresh air as potable, things like that with her lungs. 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:25.160 But I honestly feel like her last breath was taken, and I remember having this moment, and I didn't it wasn't uh just something that landed in me that it was there was something that I was being asked to do with that. 00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:38.519 And so signing way upper, and then also now just working in the space, helping other people connect to country where wherever they are, wherever they're from, we can all connect to country. 00:23:38.600 --> 00:23:39.640 It's there for all of us. 00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:48.039 So I feel like yeah, she missed out on really doing that, so on doing it for her and my grandmother. 00:23:48.600 --> 00:24:29.320 feel like yeah this the the story is still left to be told in terms of the next chapter chapter to help get them return I feel and tell us about your experience of returning to country oh my goodness at the I'll tell you a little the story of it so my my my cousin had been saying for years from country and in that time the one shedding identities I've worked in corporate environments I felt I was like working in spaces where I was leading um people that had a corporate mindset and it was starting to become something that I realized that I couldn't I wasn't aligned with anymore. 00:24:29.640 --> 00:25:02.680 But I was shedding the identity

being single mum working out what CES looked like if I can use that word and it was an unveiling of a whole lot of different things and yeah then what was the question again sorry oh yeah that's right so I finally am ready I have this moment where I just feel like I've got to work in up in Queensland it fits around the anniversary more months passing my son was away and my daughter's was free to go on this trip and it just felt right. 00:25:02.840 --> 00:25:10.759 I kept reaching out to my my cousin saying hey I'm ready and that went on some months and he didn't get back to me and so I was going up there. 00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:28.039 So my daughter and I went we got to Brisbane met with my my stepdad which was really beautiful and we did we sat actually in this beautiful landscape just memor remembering month which was lovely and my daughter got to hear stories about her grandmother that she didn't get to know. 00:25:28.120 --> 00:25:31.960 So it was almost like helping her have an identity or connection with her. 00:25:32.120 --> 00:25:37.240 And then we still hadn't heard so I decided let's just drive there anyway. 00:25:37.320 --> 00:25:40.519 I feel they're the calling to do it and I just want to drive up there. 00:25:40.600 --> 00:25:59.720 So did did my work the next day in Brisbane and then then the next morning we drove up we stopped in a town called Gundawindi which is also Genora Country I believe and then two hours later we're driving out to this little place called Girubandi and you know this is a dirt town. 00:25:59.960 --> 00:27:21.960 Is it just a dirt town so we literally they had an information centre we drove in there and then I walk in and I just said I think I've got family here and the lady asked a couple of questions and I told her who my uncle was my cousin was and then he she said oh hang on I know an elder I'll give her a call so she gets on the phone and you can hear them counting on the end and then the next thing she gets off she goes he's not here but your cousin other cousins here she's gonna get her a call anyway two minutes later she calls back they're on their way so the next minute my cousin and her husband walk in and it was the most profound moment that whole experience that I yeah so they walked in with the next minute we're yarning the four of us my daughter and I and the two of them just and I'm actually giving them back the stories that they didn't know about that it was her auntie and my mum she didn't get to and I'm looking at this woman and she looked like my mum and yeah it was just a really profound moment and then yeah they took us on country and showed us yeah where everything was and the dancing like for instance with dancing for me something was always been really I always loved to dance and just going on there kept informed me of the work that I'm already doing that space. 00:27:22.120 --> 00:27:53.480 But yeah I just walked away with just the greater sense of a knowing a real knowing and the connection that I have I was at an event recently where I was talking about my cousin and some of the work that I'd like to do with mob around supporting them with their creative arts and I was at an event talking about her and within minutes she's texting hey cunts how you going and it's like this unspoken connection there that's that yeah it's undeniable for me now. 00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:59.559 And the more that I speak to people in the space the more that they feel the same. 00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:25.400 Again when I was doing anti-racism facilitation a few weeks ago in Broadmeadows and there was a woman that came up to me afterwards and she just I just felt so much more connected to my ancestors again just by you talking about that and that she was just so grateful that she had access to be able to reconnect and and feel the space to talk about these things and these forums. 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:35.960 And as early educators I think that's amazing to be able to bring that into how we we talk I'm trying to do the way I call with early early education as well. 00:28:36.120 --> 00:29:07.320 So there's these these beautiful things that are happening where my job with that was to help young people never forget how to connect and then integrate some of the wisdom from our ancestors and then and their own ancestors but then also with the older like going into corporate events or community spaces where I'm I'm helping others remember how to connect to the the the and that's part of the sovereign sovereignty journey for all of us how we connect to country how how connect with ourselves and though those around us. 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:16.279 And tell us a little bit about what Way Upper work is for people who are very not familiar with that that term or the work that is involved. 00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:41.080 Yeah it's been established by an indigenous couple initially it wasn't it was co-founded but now it's two indigenous people and Jamie was asked he found there was a need to to connect people to the country so he actually went and spoke to the his outens and then got their feedback on how they could do that. 00:29:41.240 --> 00:30:03.000 So it's it involves four 14 elements and it's that the connection to yourself and then it's the the sun and the moon and the wind and the trees then you've got the animals you've got the kangaroo and each one of those elements helps it through the storytelling helps people connect to the things that resonate with them. 00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:17.720 So we're talking the kangaroo but it could be the characteristics of that animal that is similar in a dog for instance the presence of a dog and the way that they operate in the world and in Indigenous culture we're all connected to everything. 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:27.320 So it's going through that journey to help people reclaim that because we all come from somewhere we're all First nations from somewhere so it helps people just reconnect with that. 00:30:27.480

--> 00:30:38.759 And in corporate settings it's amazing how you can see the difference people come in and they've got their corporate I'm gonna say colonize sort of thing and then you they come out and their energy is just shifted and then they've got an access to that. 00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:50.680 It's a full ready funding program for little peoples the government Victoria government in particular is seeing the benefits of doing this within in in the early education center to get them ready for full. 00:30:50.920 --> 00:31:09.559 So it builds resilience trust in others and yes it's got a national focus as well that yeah it's it's actually I was trained in it three years ago and it just keeps getting more and more traction and because I think there's people seeing the benefits of it in practicing it in day-to-day life. 00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:30.519 So whilst it's a 14 element thing that I take people through the goal is that it leaves people feeling that they could do that practice at home but also that they get they build strategies on how to find those places like the tree that I told you thing out of the concrete it's like how to find the the trust in in in the environment that we've got around us. 00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:38.120 And what have you seen it help with people who might be grieving I'm not telling you this story. 00:31:39.160 --> 00:32:35.320 I was facilit co-facilitating a PD for I think it was like 75 early educators that had come from the a national early education center and in a break one of the participants came up to us and she started crying and she was like this is going to sound really random but I've just left from Queensland to come here and one of our little students had passed away and we knew he was going to pass away but I'm now left with as a leader this feeling of grief and how do I help my team deal with that grief and then how do I help the little people deal with that grief and there was something about my wisdom it was sent back to me later that oh my gosh Vicky you just knew what to say which is why I think I gravitated to speaking with you because we need to normalize grief. 00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:38.680 And in Western culture we don't do that so well. 00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:42.360 So I just said all right first thing is the relationship you have with grief. 00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:52.200 You can't go and help somebody else or these little people or your it's again that South sovereignty what how can you connect to your grief and make sense of it. 00:32:52.279 --> 00:33:15.480 So we use the elements and I just gave us some tips to is it the the rain like the thunderstorm rain or whatever feel the emotion we need to actually acknowledge that and we're some culture it's almost suck it up and get on with it whereas by using the elements the idea is that you can find that resilience you can find a place for that grief and normalise it. 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:26.920 So I asked if she wanted a follow-up chicken after that and so she did and she reached out to me and said I was at the memorial and when you take thing the follow-up and come to terms with it. 00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:41.799 And I didn't ask her what elements she dropped into but I did have the pleasure of going up to Brisbane and facilitating it again with another her tea and so by default I felt like she had done the work enough to then go ready to have my team do it. 00:33:41.960 --> 00:34:39.320 And in terms of brief with that too there was one of her participants there I'm sorry one of her staff participants who again started crueling and she said I'm really angry and she said I grew up in the country I grew up in the country and I never knew how to connect with country like you just wanted and yeah it was just so lovely to be held space for that she was angry and just full of grief and we held her and she felt and then her leader was able to share her experience of her grief journey and then through that it was able to say now that you know that how do you want to use these to help reclaim it so that the next time she goes back home into a country town she's going to be able to find those things that she probably might have taken for granted but is able to connect within a deeper level which then informs her how she's going to how little people deal with grief. 00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:52.199 The big emotions that come up the grief could be just because they thought they had sprinkled sandwich and it's banana grief has got so many different ways we we feel this it's happening all around us every day. 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:55.320 Change is often associated with grief. 00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:56.199 Yeah. 00:34:56.679 --> 00:35:24.519 And tell me what are some of those things that someone who might be listening now feels like oh I relate to that person who's from the country I am not indigenous from that area I like you I they may have Irish Scottish background you even mentioned the person who you helped from India have their connection to country and find that now they're living in Australia. 00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:46.119 What advice do you give to people to find that connection it's everywhere it maybe just taking a different look once you know this work and you can even go and have a look at Wayka work W so it's why W A Y A B A W Double R K. 00:35:46.759 --> 00:36:03.320 And it you it'll take you through those those elements but it's really about seeking every day intentionally how you're going to see out those those things and remember the story that you had with that element. 00:36:03.559 --> 00:36:16.599 Yeah mine's definitely the tree I had a strong connection with just remember talking about that tomorrow means to be climbing trees and and those things and yeah so how yeah just looking for it in every day but be deliberate about it. 00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:29.240 The the mindfulness and the well being piece I think that we're all talking in this day in life is to be intentional

about what your wellbeing practices look like and connecting with earth wherever it is. 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:51.240 I live in Brunswick as I said that I'm not too far from the rivers I always find connection with water as well most of us do because we are all made on white percentage of water but it's finding the parks and when you go to those places what happens is there's a community of people in those parks that actually then help you feel connected to a larger community. 00:36:51.400 --> 00:37:11.960 So it's finding it yeah in every wherever you can it's everywhere where you start to the sky's always there the sun always comes up yeah and that that again helps with the grief bit because you know that we all have seasons and so we have to you know honour those seasons the sun and then talk to one another but they're not necessarily there at the same time and it's not really not it. 00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:12.519 Yeah. 00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:16.440 I grew up on the Gippsland Lake so water is always my thing. 00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:23.240 I was always in the water and that's how I always make sure that I'm around water or near water. 00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:36.519 And it's something about remembering what you used to feel like as a kid and what made you feel safe and comfortable I find before we actually put all of the other layers on top of who we are. 00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:38.360 Yeah that's amazing. 00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:50.840 Because the other thing is one of the elements the child and so the child so we've got hunter and the gatherer which is feminine and masculine energy but then we have the child and returning to the child. 00:37:51.079 --> 00:39:08.360 Last week I had the pleasure of sitting here in kindergarten for three year old doing weapon and their faces it was just such joy and what that did was so facilitating it and we both looked at each other we get paid to do this but it's it helps you return to that childlike and in in work that's what we need to do as well we need to remember how to play we need to remember how to connect to that child and in grief that's what we also need to do as well we need to be able to nurture that little part of ourselves but yeah the child is an amazing yeah I just I love the child because it just yeah there's a kind of ceremony about the series of milestones as a child get to being an adult reality we all you know yeah return to the child even when you're sharing that story and the smile on your face you've got the memory that's endorphins and it's unconscious a lot of the time but you know how you feel when you get there and then now once you know that that's where you go with intention I need to go and drop in so yesterday I need to go in the nature get right in there even if it was raining I was out there with the dog just connecting the water and yeah Mary Cream where I so yeah. 00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:33.320 And what are some of the challenges when you were talking earlier you were saying how

your complexion is not what people would expect of someone who has indigenous heritage because you have a lighter coloured skin what are some of the other challenges when you find out that you have indigenous connection and that you have to deal with on daily basis? 00:39:33.639 --> 00:39:55.639 Yeah for me and again this is walking to world and it was actually explained to me this last week by a lovely woman who I'm working with at the moment and she's been brought up with culture and so the the journey that I've been on is to recognise that I have not experienced what they have that their trauma is a lot different to mine. 00:39:56.840 --> 00:40:31.240 And yeah she just basically said yeah she was able to identify with the wisdom she knew it she didn't but she was able to express it in that case that she understood that my journey was different but not any less challenging because there's a guilt that can sit there and that I had to un unpack that that I hadn't experienced that but then also knowing the work that I've done on the intergeneration stuff how I've experienced that there's stories of my grandmother running and hiding because she could see the black car coming down the driveway. 00:40:31.480 --> 00:40:37.240 Understanding that means I know that has had a direct result on me. 00:40:37.880 --> 00:41:12.200 And so thinking about it has is a way in which to move forward and there's a lot of people I've been in spaces where people have actually said that and there was a period of time in my identity journey I actually felt like yeah I probably don't have a right to this but the more that I realize that we're not just skin colour so there's a beautiful thing I don't know if you've seen it where it's of the tea bag the tea bag you put tea in a in water it's always black then you put a little bit of milk on there might be caramel and then you put more milk in there and it's white. 00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:37.639 But underneath the essence of it's still black yeah and it is a real challenge and yeah stand out in those spaces when I was doing the way up and it's really interesting there's a woman in there that she had been born on country and she was from my mob and it was just a really beautiful coming together and but there there is this nuance that sits there because they're because they were driving to the session and had the police pull them up and we don't I haven't had that that discrimination against me. 00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:42.280 So something that I can't even fathom to understand. 00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:56.840 All I know is I'm here to to hold space for them and recognise yeah that their journey is different to mine but also honour mine as well and yeah role model that for those that I'm in collaborate with. 00:41:57.240 --> 00:42:25.400 And looking forward Nikki now that you're doing the work that you're doing tell us a little bit about what the future holds for you and where your focus is now yeah so I've through this work and really going on country has been giving and they gave me it's almost like they gave me permission so you've got to take this and I always knew it's transforming as I go but I'm literally now moving into just working in the First Nations space. 00:42:25.720 --> 00:42:37.800 So mentoring young people and then mentoring people in corporate positions that are feeling that pressure of trying to what I'd say maybe assimilate and having had experience with laps. 00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:54.280 It feels like the landscape is so expansive and so I'm even doing some work with a company a little group in Brunswick that are looking at how the importance of the refugees and First Nations Indigenous people walking that reconciliation pub. 00:42:54.440 --> 00:43:24.200 So for me it was always around creating harmony in workplace as a community and and the storytelling element of me that I've come to realise is that I am I've studied performing arts and there's probably a short film out there that I've put a that I'm working with a mentor on that sort of help educate people on some of the challenges wrapping their head around this the ambiguity around yeah what it means to be of a a particular culture. 00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:32.679 And again I think it's universal I'll tell it kind of my story my grandmother and mum but it's really a story that I think is there for all of us do. 00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:56.519 So it's yeah in my HR or people and culture stays where I'm consulting leaders it's work around unpacking the concept of more versus more I don't know whether you know that L O R E versus LAW I had this great epiphany doing this trauma informed course a few years ago then I'd studied HR but I would call myself a P and C leader people and culture leader and the word HR never resonated with me. 00:43:56.679 --> 00:44:03.000 And in that moment I just think because they set the room up for the weekend okay L A W it's compliance it's not negotiable. 00:44:03.240 --> 00:44:08.519 We're not throwing chairs at each other we're not swearing each other's safety is relevant in all of what we're doing this weekend. 00:44:08.679 --> 00:44:43.320 And then there's L O R E which is a way of being and in that case it was reciprocity and respect relatedness and so in that world yeah it's realizing that oh that's what I do I think we do more of the L O R E and my job is to help business leaders and businesses to help identify what that is which again is that self-sovereignty piece you need less of the LAW which is a Western construct built built on lack of trust but if you trust in a way of being then the LAW becomes less of an of an issue. 00:44:43.639 --> 00:45:05.880 Still need it always from a HR perspective have outland but if we bring in these practices and old ways of being then we need less and more harmony in the workplaces like and personally Nikki you mentioned that you have decided and made a conscious decision that what your impact is on your future generations.

00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:21.800 Yeah but what does that look like for your daughter and future generations moving forward yeah so I've got two children and one stepdaughter but for me firstly they know where they've come from. 00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:29.240 And to me that having that explained and given back to me I can't even explain what that void is. 00:45:29.480 --> 00:46:34.039 I imagine there's a lot of people that feel haven't have got those pieces that haven't been told and so for me my daughter in particular is a nurse she just started studying she graduated as a nurse and I'm sure it's gonna inform her best practices around that because it I can see it in the way that she behaves that she's got this beautiful spirit as well she's not just Western she's she is she has got this spiritual my son was the same way he's doing year 12 and I've had conversations around helping him sovereign be sovereign to himself in in in those four pistons that where there's so much work that's happening there and as I said I'm grateful to be part of with the anti-racism thing is but it really is helping them like that's always been my why my intention and the timing it all came about when I knew that I I was ready to do that for myself as well as them but also the work that I'm doing with the it all talks to each other the way up the mentoring I'm doing with for youths indigenous youth and the work that I've done with the refugees as well. 00:46:34.200 --> 00:46:40.200 Yeah and then helping the teachers on this journey as well just to have the support and but the beautiful thing is I can see it. 00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:51.159 So it's being handed down as we speak there are people receptive to these there are people that are in corporate Western constructs of businesses that are asking for this as well. 00:46:51.240 --> 00:46:53.000 So it's a pretty exciting landscape. 00:46:53.320 --> 00:47:14.200 Is there any last piece of wisdom that you'd like to share Nikki I think it is to trust yourself to trust and look at places and ways in which to connect to nature because that helps connect with yourself and everybody is a storyteller I believe. 00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:21.159 So the more you share your story with those that you feel safe with the more that we're all on this kind of healing journey. 00:47:21.320 --> 00:47:47.960 Yeah the more that we're sovereign to ourselves I think the better the future's going to be in business and community in families Nikki I can't thank you enough for sharing your personal story and giving us insight into Wayapa work and the difference that practice is doing to connect people to country and really improving everyone's self-sovereignty. 00:47:48.840 --> 00:47:59.320 Thank you so much Catherine for having me we hope you enjoyed today's episode of Don't Be Caught Dead brought to you by Critical Info. 00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:06.200 If you liked the episode learnt something new or were touched by a story you heard we'd love for you to let us know. 00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:11.639 Send us an email even tell your friends subscribe so you don't miss out on new episodes. 00:48:11.800 --> 00:48:17.720 If you can spare a few moments please rate and review us as it helps other people to find the show. 00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:19.320 Are you dying to know more? 00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:25.000 Stay up to date with Don't Be Caught Dead by signing up to our newsletter and follow us on social media. 00:48:25.159 --> 00:48:30.920 Head to don'tbecaugde.com for more information and loads of resources