บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Sanford Greene Talks DC Comics Team Up With Scott Snyder, Darkseid, Czarface, Frankie Pullitzer, and Bitter Root's Future

lyrics gets a shout-out. 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:45.759 We talk about just uh hip hop in general and music and the connection of comics and and hip hop. 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:54.240 Um, before we get started, just you know, do me a favor by hitting the like button while you're watching this on YouTube or you know, be prepared to do so. 00:02:54.400 --> 00:03:02.159 Uh when you finish, comments, all that kind of stuff, uh, rating the podcast on the platform you're listening to it on really does help. 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:06.639 And obviously, any support you can give me helps keep this podcast going. 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:09.360 Um, I'm still operating this out of my own pocket. 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:13.199 So uh, and if you want to sponsor the podcast, please get in touch with me. 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:15.039 But we'll get to that after. 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:19.280 Why don't we get to my conversation with the great Sanford Green? 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:25.439 Welcome back, friends. 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:30.319 We have a returning guest, but somebody who's more than just a guest, is a friend of the channel. 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:34.319 He's a friend of mine, he's a friend of comics, he's a professor. 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:37.039 I'm gonna call him a professor, even if he's not. 00:03:37.199 --> 00:04:08.960 Uh, but we're talking to somebody who is a multiple award-winning comic creator, comic artist, uh, one who is taking up the mantle of doing some great service to Jack Kirby's creations, first starting with Doom a couple years ago and coming to DC comics in a few months with Dark Side versus the World, a DC all-in saga or saga, uh, creator, co-creator of Bitterroot, and an all-around superhuman being. 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:11.599 Sanford Green Sanford, how are you? 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:13.599 Oh man, Dave. 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:14.800 How are you doing, man? 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:15.439 Doing okay. 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:16.160 Good. 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:17.120 Good, good, good. 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:29.120 Yeah, I'm I'm having a good time uh trying to create uh and do uh do some justice to uh to Kirby's creations. 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:30.560 Yeah, yeah. 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:32.319 Are you a professor, by the way? 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:33.680 Can I call you professor? 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:35.120 I I am, I am. 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:36.560 Yes, yeah, that's what I thought. 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:37.120 I wasn't sure. 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:38.399 I don't know how that works. 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:39.519 Yeah, yeah. 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:46.560 I um been I've been teaching now for 15 years, man. 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:54.879 Um I uh I'm teaching at my alma mater, um Benedict College, uh Historical Black College. 00:04:55.199 --> 00:05:28.079 Um you know, I I'm I'm doing it mainly because um I went to school there and um I was reached out to by the um at the time the president um wanted wanted me to come back and do uh some workshops, symposiums, and uh I did a few of those and they made me an offer that I try to refuse, but eventually eventually I couldn't refuse. 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.639 But I I I wouldn't trade it for the world. 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:49.439 They they have been nothing but uh supportive of me and my career, and it's been really cool to be able to have some future um artists um to have graduated and that they're now in the industry. 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:50.639 That's amazing. 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:58.160 And you I I know you, and I I imagine it's not a stretch to say like you get a joy from teaching people about comics. 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:05.360 Like, you know, it feels like that's in your DNA is to is you know, that's a a joyful thing for you. 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:10.480 Yeah, I you know, jet not not just comics, um just art in general. 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:21.199 Um most of the uh students there, they're not going into the uh sequential art profession. 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:27.600 They have interest in it, but um a lot of them are are going into different fields in the arts. 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:45.279 And so just to be able to be um a uh a support in a um uh a resource, if you will, for those students, that that is very gratifying. 00:06:46.399 --> 00:07:04.240 Uh yeah, my uh I mean she didn't teach uh art, but my mom was a teacher and you know, she taught for 40 years, and you know, she she would uh come home days and be not happy because it's school and it's kids, but at the same time, like she never complained. 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:06.399 She was happy as a teacher. 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:15.120 Uh that you know, that makes you know, I think it's I think we talked about this last time, it's just how important it is uh going forward right now. 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:18.800 Um, you know, even in the last 20 years, just teaching in general. 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:31.839 Yeah, I think for me I'm doing it definitely, you know, it's the pay has been you know mild mild, I guess. 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:40.399 It's not um anything um, you know, that I would sell the farm farm with. 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.639 But um at the same time, that's not why I'm there. 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:59.439 I'm there because I saw or I'm continue continuing to see young uh black creatives striving to do something with their with their skill sets. 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:16.879 And I too was there at some point in my my life, and um I want to uh at least be the bridge to give them some opportunities um similar to what I I was afforded. 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:17.759 Sure. 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:21.839 And that's I mean, I you know, you wish everybody was like that, right? 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:22.720 Yeah. 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:25.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:32.480 But hey, at least you can do what you can do, and yeah, you know, and I I uh I love that and I applaud that. 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:35.440 And I think that's uh

I'd love to have you as a professor. 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:39.039 Look, maybe the word student is terrible. 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:40.799 Well, we take all comers, man. 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:43.840 I I think that's the thing that's great about college, right? 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:49.840 You never to, you know, we actually we have a senior who's an actual senior. 00:08:50.639 --> 00:09:05.120 Uh she's a senior, she's she's been super supportive, and she's like the age of my uh she she's like an aunt, auntie kind of uh person, but she is so like excited about creating. 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:14.879 She she retired from the military, um and she just wanted to come back to college and and do do art. 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:19.039 And so she she she ended up in one of my classes. 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:36.399 She she's not in a class, well, she's in a current class, she's in the the senior review class, which is all the seniors, and they're doing their whole their um their thesis and um their final projects over the next year, and so she's a part of that class. 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:46.080 And look, she's keeping, like I said, she was ex-military, she's ex-military, and um she's she's keeping the rest of those guys in in line. 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:50.799 She knows how to uh hey, it makes it makes my job a lot easier. 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.159 She's she's the the mother hand, if you will. 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:54.960 Yeah. 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:56.159 That's awesome. 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:56.720 Yeah. 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:10.080 Uh um, so let's jump into let's jump into well, the last time we talked on the you know, on the record here, you know, it was it was after Dune came out, and you know, what a fantastic book you you crafted. 00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:12.080 Uh just just amazing. 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:13.840 And you know, people talked about. 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:19.200 I mean, it's I still think that I don't think you'd be able to find somebody to disagree with. 00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:23.039 It's the best thing that you know Marvel put out in years. 00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:29.600 Um, and you know, your your love for Kirby was all over that book. 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:37.200 Uh and now, you know, I've known about this for a bit, but you're tackling Dark Side with Scott Snyder. 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.200 So it's it's Scott Snyder, Josh Williamson, you and and Yasmin Poutri. 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:43.039 That's everybody that's involved in the book. 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:43.840 Correct. 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:44.720 Yep, yeah. 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:52.799 And um, yeah, that that that project has um been a two-year process. 00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:59.679 Um it was talked about, then it was kind of put on hold. 00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:00.559 Yeah. 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:19.120 And um they needed to make sure that it had the perfect place uh to go, and then it got restructured story-wise, because where it is currently it needed to fit where the story and the overarching um um overall story is is headed. 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:27.120 And so uh yeah, we we we finally uh got got it going and um it's super exciting. 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:37.759 We did a um we did a kind of a a DC uh meet meet and greet to some degree with all the retailers uh throughout the country. 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:43.200 We did a big Zoom thing um last week. 00:11:43.759 --> 00:12:01.600 Oh wow man, it was very encouraging just to see how many um retailers are getting the word out um to their customers about what this book looks like, and it looks like it's gonna be some pretty significant numbers. 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:11.200 We got some other cool things that will be announced, I guess, hopefully in the next couple of weeks leading up to the uh launch of the issue. 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:11.840 Right. 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:16.799 And it's coming out November October. 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:17.360 Oh, okay. 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:21.759 So FOC though is is still early October, end of September. 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:28.320 Yeah, October 3rd, FOC 28th, October 28th is the release date. 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:29.279 Nice. 00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:40.879 Yeah, I uh I mean you've posted some of the pages, you know, the without any words or colors, and they've they've previewed some of you know the cover and um some of that stuff. 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:43.279 But yeah, it's it's picking up where KO left off. 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:53.679 And you know, Scott, I mean, it's crazy to see like him just become like the architect of everything that's happening at DC with you know within these last two years. 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:54.879 It's incredible. 00:12:55.200 --> 00:13:10.320 Yeah, he's definitely been a tremendous support and the journey of where the entire direction of the DC universe. 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:17.759 I would say ever since New 52, he's been like that that that person, that guy. 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:22.080 Um, and now it's a whole whole nother level. 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:32.960 Just when you thought that uh what he was doing with Greg Capullo and the New 52 Batman was gangbusters, this is another stratosphere. 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:33.600 Yeah. 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:51.279 Which is hard to believe that uh that that that era of the um of the DC um stories, um, especially with the Batman, um, where where that was, truth be told, that was one of the highlights of that that time period. 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:52.399 Oh yeah, for sure. 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:54.240 It was the I think it was the highlight. 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:55.200 The highlight. 00:13:55.360 --> 00:14:03.679 Um, and uh, but you know, even still he takes it to an entirely new level. 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:09.759 Uh never I I would argue never really seen before in DC's history. 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:31.600 I mean, I I don't think of being hyperbolic by by saying that, um, because yeah, we're we're in that day and

age now where um he there we're we're we're we're in a space where comics is not the mainstream. 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:34.879 Right, not like it used to be not like how it used to be. 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:57.279 You you know, you have your your uh your your other forms of um entertainment with the manga and of course you know other things, video games, anime, all those things are in in that space, occupying that space, and to see a traditional comic, if you will, uh penetrate those spaces. 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:00.480 Yeah, that's uh that's tremendous. 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:03.120 Yeah, what the uh with the absolute line. 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:07.120 I mean, it's it's all of your your pals, you and your pals. 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:18.080 Like it's it's Nick, it's you, it's Dan, you know, like all of these people kind of coming in and and and traditionally making some you know comics. 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:25.679 They are it feels like we're on the precipice of maybe them poaching, pushing through the mainstream again. 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:36.000 Yeah, but you know, it's the thing you you know you said, it's like video games, anime, even manga, like it's an easier barrier to barrier. 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:39.679 There's a lot, I should say, low barrier to entry for that stuff. 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:40.159 Right. 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:57.759 Comics feels like in general, if we were to take what we know as readers or creators or both uh out of comics, I think one of the reasons why absolute Batman is doing so well is because it is a low barrier there to entry. 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:03.759 You don't have to know any backstory because it's creating its new, and that goes for all the absolute books. 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:16.080 So absolutely, absolutely, I mean, and you know, and it's not just like the absolute absolute Batman is like the the tide is raising all the boats, if you will. 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:16.559 Yeah. 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:18.960 Um let's be honest. 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:29.840 Um the absolute Batman is is doing numbers that right that could now rival um manga sales, right? 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:31.679 Monthly manga sales. 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:55.120 But what it has also done is brought in new readers to the stores, to the shops, and it's also uh allowed or it it opened doors and opportunities for um these new readers to get into various other titles and and and and lines of the Energon universe is doing great. 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:58.720 Uh uh in Battle Beast Invincible Universe. 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:01.519 Yes, Invincible Universe is doing great. 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:09.440 Um, and then you have uh just even other independent books like Dork and Something Is Killing the Children. 00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:14.400 And uh, you know, I would throw Bitterroot in there, but I think we kind of got swaddled up. 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:19.440 You know, our hype was at a certain point, and then came all the absolute stuff. 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:21.359 We're gonna make we're we're coming back, though. 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:23.839 That's a bit of a breaking news here. 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:24.720 We're coming back. 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:31.440 We're gonna we're doing something that's gonna, I think is gonna put us in that same space with all this other stuff. 00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:34.640 Yeah, it's pretty we're pretty excited about it. 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:51.839 I you know, I I do think, you know, we and we've talked about this, you know, out outside of this, but I do think that there is it just needs that that one moment in the sun to get people to to look at it and read it because it's such a special book, Bitterood. 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:55.839 I mean, the you know, the last miniseries, the next movement was you know so good. 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:58.000 And you we you know, we talked about it last time. 00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:05.839 You're designing kind of that curb Kirby-esque, futuristic, you know, at least in the the outfits and stuff. 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:06.880 Um right. 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:14.559 And and I do think that there is I think people are hungry for story still. 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:21.519 Like I've been saying, I've been saying that for a couple years now because the independent scene has been pretty awesome. 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:33.519 And um, yeah, you know, just just needs that one moment that you know that one series to come out that is you know, the magnifying glass is on comics, like you said, right now. 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:35.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:18:36.400 --> 00:19:07.039 Yeah, I um yeah, I was gonna say that um for for for what we were able to do from roughly 2018 to about 23, 24, it hadn't been done by a uh all you know, you had an all-black creative team doing pretty much all black casts, um, with you know, arguably with an independent, you know, image still being in that independent category. 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:19.759 And um to be able to have the success that we had, um, you know, winning a couple of eisners and getting a movie deal. 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.799 Now, you know, we people always ask me about this. 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:27.359 I know you were gonna ask me, hey, what's up with the you know the movie? 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:31.839 The same thing that's up with every other IP that's you know out there. 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:32.640 Yeah. 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:58.400 You know, it's you're dealing with a lot of the Hollywood political machine, you know, political stuff and the politics of it and the the the the the the you know what the like to your point that you're you're you're what you just alluded to, the machine, who's in charge and what they're feeling and what they're up against versus who they they need to answer to or appease shareholders, whatever you want to call it. 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:00.319 Um it's all that stuff, man. 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:06.720 And that's why we

we we just came from uh DragonCon um last week. 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:21.839 And um first time we were all together, me, David, and Chuck, uh David Walker and Chuck Brown, the co-creators, we were we were together physically for the first time in I think three years, give or take. 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:39.680 And this is the first time since technically volume one, I think, that we had a really, you know, a sit-down and map this thing out, kind of like uh a retreat kind of thing, uh, which was very encouraging, great ideas. 00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:49.519 Um, we got stuff on paper now, so that's that's always the the goal is to start getting things to get things moving, get things um in writing. 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:53.279 And um yeah, we we we know that this is what we control. 00:20:53.359 --> 00:21:09.440 The Hollywood stuff is going to fluctuate, and um, but this is our our space, and we we it doesn't matter where we go, um whether it's a con or in-store or just sometimes on the streets. 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:17.359 I can be on the street, someone recognizes me, which is kind of weird as a you know, that whole you know, what do you what do you call it? 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:19.039 Um local famous comic book. 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:20.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:24.079 People like, hey, you're that guy say, hey, what's up with that uh with bitter roots? 00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:30.960 And you know, you get a chance to share with them, you know, some things that's uh that we're looking to do. 00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:32.480 That's what we can control. 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:40.799 We can control what's on the page and um whether you know, to let the chips fall where where they may, yeah. 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:42.640 Um moving forward. 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:46.880 Well, and you also have zero budget when you're putting stuff on a page. 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:53.119 You just need your pen and paper, you know, and and Chuck and David, they just need, you know, whatever the pen and paper or typing. 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:58.720 And um, I mean, I but and we talked about the movie stuff last time we saw each other in Charlotte this year. 00:21:58.960 --> 00:21:59.200 Yeah. 00:21:59.519 --> 00:21:59.759 You know. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.240 I to me, and I don't know. 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.880 I mean, there are certain things that yeah, I would love to see on the screen. 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:14.559 You know, I think about the discourse, the endless discourse on on comic book movies, comic book TV shows, and stuff like that. 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:18.400 I always wanted to see Wolverine on screen when I was a kid, right? 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:18.720 Right. 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.839 Like because it was Wolverine, and I got that, and I'm I'm good. 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:23.680 Like, I don't, I'm good. 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:28.640 But when I was reading like Infinity Gauntlet when I was a kid, I didn't give a shit. 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:30.799 I wasn't thinking like I want to see this on screen. 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:33.519 I was enamored by what was on the page. 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:42.960 Now, do I want to see my my favorite creators have their stuff on screen to their, you know, like to their specificity? 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:43.680 Yes. 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:52.799 Do I want Sanford Green, Chuck Walker, uh, uh David Walker, Chuck Brown to be happy with what gets made and make money off and make some more money? 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:54.480 Sure, yes, I do. 00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:57.759 But when I'm reading the comic, that's not what I'm thinking. 00:22:58.079 --> 00:22:59.680 Right, right, right. 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:07.279 And we it in in and that's the thing that's encouraging about what we're what we have coming. 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:16.559 Um it will definitely satisfy the diehards for sure. 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:22.079 It will and should, I'm I'm pretty positive it's gonna bring in a whole lot of new readers. 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:22.640 Sweet. 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:45.039 This what we're doing is going to bring in, you know, um folks uh that um that may have heard of Vitaroute, but the way that we're presenting it is going to definitely should get them on board. 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:46.720 I like to hear that. 00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:57.119 Yeah, and and you know, that's uh that that makes me happy because you know, when more readers jump on board to a book, that just means that book can last longer. 00:23:57.279 --> 00:23:59.599 Uh the creators can create more, you know. 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:33.680 There's uh it's it's still um, and I think you know, pretty much anybody that knows about comics, like with the exception of maybe one or two books that you could be on, like there's that thin line of of how successful a book can be uh monetarily for a creator, has to reach certain amount of issues or whatever it is, like the trade, you know, like I think it's McFarlane and Kirkman both kind of talk about how like or even Remender, I think, is talked about like you want to hit 40 to 50 issues because then you have that library volume or something like that. 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:34.640 Right. 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:35.759 You know, yeah, yeah. 00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:41.200 I mean, we got uh the first um we got our first tome. 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:43.920 So that's that that there you go. 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:55.200 It was one of those things where uh volume two came out, and then we saw the numbers for volume one jump, you know, twice as much, and so on and so forth. 00:24:55.359 --> 00:25:03.359 And uh and it and it also increased the individual sales uh for the the individual uh uh issues. 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:04.880 It that jumped the value. 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:11.119 Um my god, those those variant covers that we did, those things are like dude. 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:16.319 That that Acura one is like it's a ghost, and

everybody's looking for it. 00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:23.759 I got two of them up there that will remain as part of my trust fund for the kids. 00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:26.720 Funny total sidebar. 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:36.240 I was talking to um Dragota the other day about um the upcoming uh absolute uh uh issue five. 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.319 Yeah, 2025, issue two. 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.279 Oh, yeah, the 25th, yeah, with the wraparound cover, that crazy. 00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:48.400 And I said, dude, this is going to go for you know, pretty much pay off a house or something, right? 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:50.960 Yeah, and he said, No, I'm gonna hold on to it. 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:52.640 Sorry, and that might be breaking news. 00:25:53.039 --> 00:26:03.200 Some folks might be, and he says, you know, he said, hey, I I want to hold hold on, and that's what you know, truth be told, that's what uh you know, we've all we all do that. 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:03.920 Of course. 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:11.839 There's certain you know, original um bodies of work that we we reserve for ourselves. 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:13.839 Um, because it's our art. 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:18.720 But uh two, two, we we do see the value. 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:35.519 We know what this this this this work of art means monetarily, and and we want to um preserve that for for our generation, for for our next generation uh of our children and you know the our family. 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:39.759 And so it is a trust fund, if you will, um for for art. 00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:54.400 If you can if you can create something that um gives you that type of value, that that's the other thing that that bitter root kind of started to um afford. 00:26:55.039 --> 00:27:08.000 Um, you know, me specifically as an as as the artist, um I held I'm holding on to um certain stories or certain issues in um like the first issue. 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:08.400 Sure. 00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:09.440 Certain covers. 00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:10.720 You know, unfortunately I have to have. 00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:13.599 Did you keep that connecting cover? 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:14.960 I do have that. 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:16.319 I have all the connecting covers. 00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:17.680 Oh, okay. 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:26.400 And I actually have one of the the first volume uh or the first, yeah, the first volume of my individual connecting covers. 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:35.039 Uh there they are um on display at the South Carolina State Museum. 00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:46.480 So our our actual um state museum is uh curating that original, or some of those originals. 00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:51.039 That's they don't own them, but they're yeah. 00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:54.880 They're on loan from the uh San Francisco Green Foundation. 00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:56.400 Foundation, yeah. 00:27:56.559 --> 00:28:09.119 And that's kind of cool to be able to, it's kind of like a full circle moment for me because uh I remember as a child going to the state museum and looking at all these incredible bodies of work. 00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:15.359 Um I remember when I was a kid, I went to to a Norman Rockwell exhibit there. 00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:15.680 Wow. 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.200 And you know, that he was one of my stunning. 00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:31.359 Yeah, he was one of my entry points into the the the bridge between fine art and commercial art, if you will, because he's kind of in that in that wheelhouse. 00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:31.839 Sure. 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:43.519 And um uh it was always something about his work that felt like I can see it not only in motion, but as a as almost like a comic. 00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:49.920 Uh, like he can do, I could it's a shame that he never did any covers for comics or something. 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:57.920 Yeah, he totally would just be, I mean, obviously, he probably was offered and he said, You're you're gonna you're paying what? 00:28:58.079 --> 00:28:59.039 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:01.759 Your page rate is$22 a page. 00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:02.559 Right, right. 00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:06.480 But just think about you know, him, Lion Deck, or guys like that. 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:15.759 What what they could have done with a a cover doing Superman or doing uh you know, something that kind of fits there. 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:27.680 You know, I can see uh uh Norman Rockwell doing kind of like a um a Captain America, you know, like uh some kind of patriotic looking, you know, uh American. 00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:39.920 Or even just a small like Captain America in a small town in front of a window of a shop with a a kid who's like in awe and he's petting a dog. 00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:42.559 Yeah, you know, something like that. 00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:44.319 Yeah, yeah. 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:47.680 I mean, his his art and like I said, Americana. 00:29:48.160 --> 00:30:02.799 Yeah, his art, and I you know, I probably didn't know Rockwell's name until maybe I was 10 or 12 or something, but I'd seen his art a lot when I was a kid, and it always there's so much life in his art. 00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:13.759 There's so much life in in what he was painting, even if it was, you know, like like I said, like a a shop shopkeeper put you know, turning the open sign or something like that. 00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:15.839 There was just so much life in his work. 00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:17.519 Yeah, absolutely. 00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:24.720 I mean, that that stuff was kind of the beginning stages for me of understanding storytelling. 00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:56.640 Um just looking at his compositions and seeing, you know, in one corner of his compositions is some kids playing by the pond, and the dog is chasing you know a I don't know, another a cat around the kids, and you know, grandpa is yelling at them for not, you know, don't get in the pond or don't don't go over there, you might fall in it or

something. 00:30:56.799 --> 00:30:56.960 Yeah. 00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:13.279 Yeah, and that uh he had to convey so much because, like, yeah, his art was in, you know, was on the covers of like every magazine and whatever, Life magazine, or I think it was must have been, you know, more than just that. 00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:18.960 Um uh getting back to the art thing though, you know, it's interesting. 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:21.039 And I was actually gonna ask you this. 00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:25.519 I asked Dan this, I think, on the last uh time he was on the show. 00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:36.960 You know, in Japan, most of the major stories are uh the art is owned by the publisher, you know, Kadansha or whoever it is. 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:44.240 Um and that obviously leaves a lot of money out of the pockets for the mangaka. 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:57.680 But at the same time, like, you know, what do you think about the fact that like a publisher owning the originals so that it could be displayed in a museum in its entirety, uh, you know, 50 years from now? 00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:09.920 I just think about like, you know, the fist of the North Star, Ghost in the Shell, like all of these things are actually seen by the public because they're not always owned by the the creator. 00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:20.000 And obviously, I don't I don't want to see creators miss out on making their money, especially these days, because that's where the money is, is in the original art. 00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:38.960 But you know, do you think about that like you know, in terms of certain stories of yours are all intact, whether they're in your hands or in their, you know, in somebody else's hands, but then there's a lot of other works of yours that are scattered around between collectors that will never be seen by people in its entirety. 00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:44.000 I mean, is there um is there a happy medium on that? 00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:46.160 Yeah, I think you kind of said it. 00:32:46.319 --> 00:33:29.359 The the happy medium is we we as the individual artists, we we have the discretion of moving in a way to where we're uh selling individual works of art to collectors, and then we reserve certain works for future uh the state, family, you know, um uh building, you know, for their futures, but in the meantime, those works could be loaned to galleries and museums. 00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:40.079 Interesting enough, there's um something that we are a few of us from the Felix group were a part of um coming in November. 00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:41.680 Yeah, Icon Festival. 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:44.559 Yeah, the icon festival uh festival. 00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:53.440 And when that was put together, um I kind of sort of knew about it um about a year ago. 00:33:54.079 --> 00:34:08.480 You know, Felix is always moving, he's got ideas, he's he's very he's very uh proactive in in in the art collecting space, um, the curating space. 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:21.119 He understands a lot of the market and and and what and he's in many ways he's a few steps ahead of where mark mark the market may be going. 00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:55.440 Um and so when when he brought that to our attention, I I knew that it was going to be something that kind of falls into what we're talking about now, where you're you're gonna have these two um these two interests come you know uh to a uh to a medium, if you will, to to uh a uh meeting of uh the two minds, and that's the collector and as the exhibitor, uh curator, if you will. 00:34:55.679 --> 00:35:14.320 And and so um and OAX is is kind of like already in that space too, but this icon thing is like, you know, we're talking about George Lucas, and I've seen the folks that are some of the folks that are involved with this, as far as like who's on the board. 00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:25.039 Yeah, it's like you know, you see Queen Latifa, you know, you know, doing uh a Comic Con uh panel talking about curating work works of art. 00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:31.199 I'm like, yeah, that's a different right, because that's that's a world of people. 00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:32.639 Yeah, yeah. 00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:46.960 So we're we're we're we're entering a space that um honestly is is uncharted territory for us, you know, for uh the comic creator. 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:52.000 Um yeah, so I I I'm excited about it. 00:35:52.159 --> 00:36:12.719 Uh it definitely um something that um I firmly b firmly believe that uh it will uh transcend this industry um because this museum is going to highlight comic art uh comic artists and comic art. 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:19.840 And uh yeah, that's gonna bring some some interesting you know things to us. 00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:21.039 Sure. 00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:33.119 And I think, you know, we we've both been there, I mean, literally been there at OAX with the you know, collections in black, with what you know Phil, big Phil did with you know, with a couple other folks. 00:36:33.360 --> 00:37:22.960 Um, but it is it is sad to think about how like you know, he he's making this documentary about trying to find the original art for the first appearance of Black Panther, and nobody knows where it is, and you know, Fantastic 448, 49, and 50, which are arguably not just the three best Marvel comics, you know, in a storyline ever, but like three of the most important comics, and nobody knows who's got the art if it still exists, and it's right, it it's this medium that we both love, and it's one that you are a part of in creation, and you know, we know where Van Gogh's most uh important works are, and you know, uh we know where we know who's got the prints for you know movies that are 70 years old or the original prints for whatever Star Wars or something like that. 00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:42.400 So, you know, I do think that that like you know there's gotta be a little more responsibility, and I I agree with you, like it's like okay, you're the creator, you get to

choose what you want to keep and what you want to sell, and you know, Felix does what he does, but you know, whole issues go to people. 00:37:42.480 --> 00:38:08.639 I mean, there was just the post, and I'm sure you know who, and I won't ask, but there was the just that post on Instagram that Felix posted, and it's like one person bought the absolute Batman annual, the Wolverine story, uh Absolute Batman 15 complete, like all of this stuff, and like okay, well, at least somebody's taking the responsibility of I'm gonna own all of this, and it's not gonna go to other people, it's going to stay as a whole thing. 00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:09.920 Yeah. 00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:19.760 Um man, that that for me, I I that's a that's an interesting one. 00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:26.239 It's great in terms of being able to, like you said, have it in one space. 00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:28.400 Um it's not scattered. 00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:34.639 Um, but it's it's also you want more people to enjoy it. 00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:57.599 Um you want it more you want more of your your your your body of work to be in collections that makes it more um it just makes you more uh accessible, I guess. 00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:08.000 Um my my work is you know, I'm not doing a monthly, so a whole lot of my work out there, at least the the good stuff. 00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:16.320 Stuff that I feel that you know it you you would love to see um as many people enjoy it as possible. 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:20.800 I mean, the last my Doom book got bought by one one individual. 00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:21.440 Sure. 00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:29.119 Um you know, and I'm I'm already being there's inquiries about the the dark side stuff. 00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:32.000 Of course, but you know, for the entire thing. 00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:51.199 And and so you're like, oh man, this is you know, it it's it's it really is a um it's a situational um deal where um what what does this mean in this moment in time? 00:39:51.440 --> 00:40:45.599 Um just being honest, from a from a financial standpoint, um, maybe even a career standpoint, you know, because some of this stuff does um it can it can it it it builds your it has the the potential to build your your your your brand and your your your your value if you will and so you you you have to really weigh all those things which does feel a little I don't like thinking about stuff all the time like that, but you you look at the end of the day we're we're artists trying to make a living drawing comic books and so you're you're you're yeah you just leave you you know I can leave it there and you understand what that means. 00:40:45.840 --> 00:41:04.960 Um I I am grateful that I have had a career to where despite the ebb and flows of it, the trajectory has been it definitely within the last you know over the last I would say 10 years. 00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:05.440 Sure. 00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:10.159 Eight to ten years has been just continuously up and up and up. 00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:21.760 And you know, obviously being you know with Felix and what he brings to the table makes it um even more um I you know granted more opportunities. 00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:29.599 Um I I am proud though of what I was able to build on my own, and I still do some of that stuff on my own. 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:34.639 Uh there's certain things that Felix just doesn't, you know, it's not his wheelhouse. 00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:35.119 Yeah. 00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:40.880 If I'm doing certain projects or certain things, I'm like, don't worry, Felix, I got this, I got this one. 00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:42.800 I got this covered. 00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:50.000 Hip hop variant covers for you know for yeah, you know, all those things. 00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:50.400 Yeah. 00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:54.559 You were the brain, you were part of the brainchild of the hip-hop variant covers for Marvel. 00:41:54.639 --> 00:42:04.320 So it's only, you know, it's only fitting that uh, you know, that your the mass appeal thing comes along, and that's like, yeah, you're just you know, that was a a huge thing. 00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:05.840 Huge, man, huge. 00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:07.519 Stay tuned, stay tuned. 00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:14.880 Yeah, um you know, going, I want to stick up with dark side for a little bit, but I uh there's a bunch of other stuff I wanted to touch on. 00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:15.840 Um, right. 00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:19.840 How many pages is this book for you, like of your art? 00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:22.079 Um, it's 30. 00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:25.039 Um, because of where they want it to go. 00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:30.320 I think the other the backup story, I think, is up to that might be 18 pages. 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:32.239 So you got 48 pages overall. 00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:32.400 Yeah. 00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:37.039 Um, so that's a good chunk of uh of of story. 00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:42.800 Um yeah, they they they want it to uh keep it at 30. 00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:54.000 Um and uh truth be told, based on what I was able to put on the pages, that was a great decision because I I put a lot on those pages. 00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:56.559 I think this is great. 00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:57.440 Thank you. 00:42:57.599 --> 00:42:57.920 Thank you. 00:42:58.079 --> 00:42:59.519 You haven't seen it. 00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:01.760 I haven't seen all of them, but you I've seen some of them. 00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:02.000 Yeah. 00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:06.239 What you've seen has been, you know, the stuff I've been been able to show. 00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:13.679 Um but trust me, they're definitely a whole nother level of what I'm able to put put down. 00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:25.119 I mean, I was looking, I was thinking about it, and I was kind of measuring out what which you know special had more work. 00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:31.280 Um in terms of if you want to say length, definitely doom because it was 10 more pages, right? 00:43:31.519 -->

00:43:48.719 But right in terms of of the launching point of something bigger, this this book has more weight, right? 00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:50.639 Potentially more weight. 00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:58.320 Um, there I got the overall um story and plot of where everything is going. 00:43:58.639 --> 00:43:59.760 Um, this book is definitely. 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:01.360 the launching point of that. 00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:03.920 So it's a very significant book. 00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:09.760 And it really, how should I say? 00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:29.519 It it really makes what I did, the decisions that I made like, wow, it's kind of cool to look back maybe a year from now and you know feel like wow what I did on that page there's a whole story. 00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:33.760 There's a whole epic that's coming because of what I did on one page. 00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:35.199 Ramifications of it. 00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:36.639 The ramifications of it. 00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:38.960 And so it's not just that one page. 00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:54.719 It's 30 pages that each page could lead to something you know well I would say I shouldn't say that at least half of those pages are things that could lead to something else. 00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:56.800 So it's interesting pretty awesome. 00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:57.440 Yep. 00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:09.760 That's and and you know I think you know I mean I don't think anybody knew what the all in stuff was going to lead to from the reader's perspective when it first started. 00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:20.880 So yeah who you know we'll be talking about we'll re we'll have a recap episode in a year and and talk about it and I'll play the clips of you saying that and then we'll continue. 00:45:21.599 --> 00:47:37.679 Yeah yeah yeah you're you know you're you're one of you're one of a few creators at least in modern times that has been able to really bring something fresh with a creator owned uh series but then play around in the sandbox of you know when we talk about Jack Kirby's creations his two biggest you know villainous creations um do you you know it's funny I don't I don't think I read anything that Darkseid was in when I was a kid but I had the superpowers toy so I always knew who he was right um do you do you remember like uh the first time you had encountered him in a comic that you picked up or something like that dude um the superpowers was my intro to dark side as well I I think that was the intro to most folks that are in our yeah in our era our generation um yeah I didn't know who dark side was until you know until that point I thought he was cool um but didn't really appreciate him until he um I didn't really appreciate him you know you know I'm a kid when the superpower stuff was was happening but the the appreciation of him came um not in in comics it came during um honestly uh the uh justice league animated show um that's where I really started seeing what he represents uh represented and um his and the potential I'm like oh my god this there's one episode of the Justice League where he he and Superman are going toe to toe um and I think this is the the episode where Flash basically to kind of set up a punch runs gets a head start running around the earth to come back to oh yeah you gotta get a head start so he can wallop this dude and uh in that episode Superman talks about you know this is the first time I feel like I I don't have to hold back and I'm like what does that mean? 00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:38.639 What does that mean? 00:47:38.880 --> 00:51:50.480 Oh my god and that made Superman cool to me because it's at that moment Superman was still the guy that you know died because of uh because of um doomsday doomsday yeah I was like uh you know you let doomsday a dude made of rocks or whatever yeah whatever he was made of right stone granite I don't know what that was but um you know I kind of I kind of bought into that but uh but still it that era made me really pay attention to uh to to what dark side represented so um I can tell you the story of how this even how I even got on this project yeah yeah so the origin story was me and Scott was talking uh two years ago at Comic Con and he said man I'd love to work with you what do you want to work on we got annuals coming up of this absolute Batman thing I turned it down and I was like no you know but no I mean you know um I I I I also knew that you know there were other folks other folks like you know Daniel and some other folks that were doing these specials and the the absolute Batman specials and and I I I felt like man I'd I would love to do it but I'd also want to kind of see what else can I do that may have the a similar impact hopefully and I just couldn't we couldn't really come up with anything other than doing absolute Batman right and then um the the Doom stuff had already come out and it did what it did and um a retailer I don't know if I want to give away my sources he he has conversations with Scott Scott frequently oh I already know who already know who it is dude from third eye you said it not me not me shout outs to uh Steve Steve is great and um we he um I was there for a signing might have been the Doom signing and some other stuff bitter root too I think and we're on the way to the signing and um he said you know what you need to do over at DC because DC for the next and now mind you this is almost two years ago year and a half ago meet Scott in San Diego a few months later I'm talking to him and I and he said you know what you need to do you need to do something that was that that's similar at DC like what you did over at Marvel with Doom and we were you know we were just trying to think what what character there that has a similar weight and not ethos some some some someone that could that would make people pay attention like oh wow this guy and the only thing I could think of was dark side um at the time um and he said you know what that that might just work as a matter

of fact here's some things that I was told about some where they're they're going with some things right and um I said okay I'm gonna call Scott and I'm gonna throw throw that out there and see what he says and he he was like oh my god that would be great let's see if we can pull this thing together and you know long story short you know Paul Kaminsky the uh editor on on the project um and one of the main editors at uh DC did a great job of curating and getting all the moving parts together to make it to make it work and so you know by the beginning of the year we had everything set um as far as like where it was going to be placed and where um and and what how they're they were going to um promote it and um man shout shout outs to those guys because they really put together a great plan um it wasn't just thrown out there for just to you know get it done and over with or whatever. 00:51:50.719 --> 00:57:13.360 You sure it was definitely a a thing that um they were very uh strategic about it and so you know good things come to those who wait and and at the beginning it was challenging I'm sure um there's a million stories about how creatives over the last few years especially at DC have been pitching stories and it's taken three four years to come to fruition but once they come when it comes together yeah boy does it come together and um it truly does yeah and so my hat's off to them for being great stewards of uh of these characters and in in in these stories yeah and uh you know um just to kind of affirm what you said you know Che had told me like her her and you know that Che and Scott were working on ideas together like a year and change ago and yeah I mean what they're doing right now and now you're part of it you know in the in the interior world of of of doing a comic in this era of DC it's just it's hitting on all cylinders and I I wanted to say this earlier and I just didn't get a chance to say it was like even Hayden and Kelly on absolute wonder woman I had never been not a Wonder Woman fan but I've never been reading an ongoing Wonder Woman book in my life and now I I can't I can't wait for the next issue and the next issue and the next issue it's it's it's just great storytelling with you know like what you know your your page design Hayden's page design what Nick does on a page what Dan does on a page it's all super unique and it feels fresh in every way um yeah dude wait wait until you see uh what James Heron is doing on the demon man I was just gonna say that yeah you know yeah I mean and and and I think that that's the part that's kind of like cool about right now in the in this moment is we're we're we're kind of all we got a group chat that we sent each other's work and we've seen stuff like a year ago and I'm like oh my god when is this coming out and James showed those pages a few of those pages um in in our chat and it just made me go back to the drawing board I'm like man bump this you're not gonna you're not going to you know just throw those pages in there like hey guys I'm goofing off here on this page I'm like no yeah sure you are you're not you're goofing off alright you drop you you dropped a specific page in that group you it was like a pipe bomb boom and everybody that saw it was just like damn it it rips up the page they're working on and man let me tell you but it's really inspiring to to be uh amongst you know such creative uh uh talents and and I mean there's even other guys like uh you know what Ian Bertram is doing what what um I mean even some of the stuff that um that um our brain is is fried right now even some of the stuff that um I'm seeing from from uh trad well trad too I mean gosh man dude see that's the thing it's like it's so much of us in in in the in the group man what trad is the stuff that trad showed us in in in the in the in the chat I'm like this makes no sense in a good in a good way it's like man come on man yeah he's uh he's uh unfair in the the the way that he creates um sorry I didn't mean to cut you off I just thought that's who you're talking about yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I I was thinking about a few other uh Wes Craig what he's doing yes um so you know um yes all of us are are you know uh inspiring one another um and look I just I'm trying to keep up well trying to keep up with these kids you know it's funny though because like what you have none of these other other guys have in a you know reference to dark side and the fact that you are now immortalized in a czar face song called Omega Beam and hey I'm a new member I'm a new member that's exactly because that's you at the beginning of the song right didn't they sample you talking at the beginning of the song dude I was like where did he get this from and then it I remembered I think that came from so last year um when I did the mass appeal uh Marvel collab I did the the cover and helped design the the characters and in the world building and all that stuff we did the big promotion and the panel the dude the panel was like that was amazing it was a concert it was a concert we it it was roughly like if that could have been in whole H it would have been in whole H. 00:57:13.679 --> 00:59:20.239 Right the Javits doesn't have a whole H per se it has like a mini whole H you know it's like a you know a whole C plus I don't know look 2500 3000 people in there you know but still a lot of people it's a lot of people man and um right after that we had a big kind of like lunch dinner party and um uh czar was there and called him czar yeah the regular folks call him czar face called him czar yeah that makes more sense makes more sense and uh no we we were just talking about if you could you know spend the night on the town with with uh you know a certain character who would it be he threw that charac question out there and and he wanted me to in in turn uh ask him and we just started going back and forth and so it it's kind of like the the what's on the record was spliced up to to

sound like it's just me talking it was actually both of us yeah it did a great job um about it um it did a tremendous job and just um yeah you're right man just to you know to to be on an actual you know record in is our face of all you know these guys are i i would say they're kind of in the run to jewels yeah yeah right so huge fan base um you know very eclectic fan base if you will the mf dunes and all that you know yeah it's it's it's kind of leans to the punk side of every genre whether it's rap or whether it's punk like the way that I view Zarface is like yeah alternative indie heads from all kinds of music like you could be correct you know uh an alt punk fan you can be an alt indie fan like a run the jewels or you can be an a you know alt rap fan um you know it it's it's so cool though like and this is the you know the album comes out in out of nowhere with a pow. 00:59:20.480 --> 01:00:45.199 I mean not out of nowhere but it's the whole Frankie Pulitzer Tom Hardy gets a lot of press because of that but he's yeah he's actually a really good rapper he's a true dude so to that point I'm like wait a minute this thing is like really getting big you know because it's not because of you know the the Omega Beam song but it is riding on the the the wave of of um Hardy not Hardy what's his name sorry no Tom Hardy yeah Tom Hardy sorry it it's it's is riding his his his level of of of skill and people are you know you got method man and and and deck on this on this song and and so you got members of the Wu Tang and you got oh it's like man this thing is like huge all of a sudden and I just happen to be mixed in there somehow that's when I reached out to to us I was like dude can I be a member man can I mean like can I get on the stage with you with you guys he's like yeah absolutely I'm like well I mean you're you're uh you also don't tease me don't tease me with a good time I'll I'll well with with the mass appeal thing and then also you did the I mean you did possibly if not definitely the highest profile Wu Tang poster last year at Madison Square Garden. 01:00:45.599 --> 01:01:24.159 I mean you're you know it's I think also like when you look at your career in particular and you go back to the hip hop covers and being you know like part of the architect of that like it's only makes sense that you're the person who's immortalized in a song uh about the character that you're doing this this one shot of yeah you know so so so actually I gotta give credit to Scotty Young okay okay I don't know what morning it was I see a text from him he said hey dude uh something to the effect have you heard the new Zarface? 01:01:24.719 --> 01:04:06.320 And I said no I hadn't heard it yet he was like dude uh you might want to download it and check it out let me know what you think um when you hear you know uh this song called Omega being so he sends me the Spotify link directly to the song right excuse me and so I'm like okay what he's really excited about this I'm

thinking it has to do with I don't know um I hate fairyland or something I don't know I thought he was and so so so I checked it out and I heard the intro obviously I'm hearing my voice I'm like wait a minute pause hang on rewind back wait that's my voice that's my voice okay cool and then he you know goes farther in and you hear hear my name and uh so I text Scott Scotty back and I was like dude wow is it dude he said I had to call him because I thought it was uh you know he didn't know for sure like if they they knew who I was or I was like I know you know I just thought they just threw it out there because they but um but yeah I mean obviously that's gonna be the theme song when when the the book is released in uh in October oh hello there we'll get right back to the video I want to let you know that I have a Patreon that supports both of my channels Direct Edition and West Coast Avengers for$5 a month you can help contribute and support the channels you get bonus videos from both channels you get a chance to vote for a video that I record where I flip through a rare book and every two months you can take part in a private sale of stuff from my personal collection my inventory and my travels stuff that is not available anywhere else but it goes to you first my friends the link is in the description below direct Dave Engerinos that's my Patreon$5 a month and now back to the video going back to just thinking about your timeline your history and your career with hip hop and comics and and and starting a lot with uh you know with the um you know kind of being the architect of or being part of the architecture of of the hip hop covers for Marvel it's it's only fitting but when yeah when that when that issue comes out if they don't contact Zarface esoteric you know and and and be like can we do a promo like a promo reel or something for for this issue coming out with the song and like then when they lyrically reference you it's like it's a perfect you know it's perfect. 01:04:06.559 --> 01:05:59.760 But that's even if they don't do even if they don't do it we're gonna do it anyway because that's that's hip hop man hip hop is rebellion exactly rep rebel music if you will but no um it uh yeah it it it it definitely was one of those things where you're like man to be mentioned in a in a in a song because of your body of work is is is pretty is surreal and and honestly kind of humbling that um you know you're you're recognized that way yeah I didn't realize like I didn't listen to too much czar face but I you know I listened to the album as soon as you post it I'm like I'm like I'm gonna listen to it I didn't realize how much like their entire lyrical contact content is revolves around comics revolves around that you know and it's it's lovely they have a comic yeah they have a comic um they they they I don't know what issue but they're doing comics along with so it like I said it falls into uh a similar space as the the runda jewels and definitely mf doom as a matter of fact is a there's a collaboration with mf doom i think there's a collaboration with uh jewels as well um yeah yeah and you know and and wu tang clan is kind of like the grandfathers of that because when you listen to like all those dudes collected comics they're comic nerds they're referencing it um uh I didn't yeah and and speaking of the Czarface comic I think oddly did a cover for them or something like that back a bunch of years ago I think so because I remember him posting about it but um I wanted to ask you about 01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:02.159 Something that we, you know, it already happened. 01:06:02.239 --> 01:06:04.000 We talked about in North Carolina, but the Inc. 01:06:04.079 --> 01:06:09.440 Alliance, you did the cover for Teen Titans 38, which was a huge success. 01:06:09.679 --> 01:06:16.000 I mean, people drove cross-state lines to to to to find that comic. 01:06:16.079 --> 01:06:23.519 And uh it's you know, and that that's 10 stores, but I think there's gonna be more in the Inc Alliance now. 01:06:23.840 --> 01:06:25.679 Yes, that's the uh the plan. 01:06:25.840 --> 01:06:30.000 Um, those guys are doing uh a tremendous job. 01:06:30.159 --> 01:07:03.440 Um the um initial members um with uh curating and and facilitating you know um and and moving this this uh um operation and uh this network uh in a way that really not only uh resonated within the immediate community, the the black community, but it definitely permeated. 01:07:03.599 --> 01:07:08.320 Look, anytime something sells out in this industry, people are going to turn turns heads. 01:07:08.400 --> 01:07:23.519 Yeah, they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna pay pay attention just a bit and to see what is going for um online and you know I trying to make sure I see this with all humility. 01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:27.519 I knew that this thing was going to be what it is. 01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:34.480 Um because the initial idea was um I was thinking just one store. 01:07:35.039 --> 01:08:02.400 Because like the typical, like the typical stores, and um the guys over at um Blurs at the Underground, um they didn't know if they could handle the you know the the financial responsibilities of the you know that whole you know doing a retailer exclusive yeah doing the retailer, I mean, you know, they they you know they they look it's a business. 01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:16.720 They know that these stores are making three, four, five, ten times the amount of whatever the the you know the um the retailer um rate is or whatever. 01:08:16.960 --> 01:08:32.640 Um so uh the the the comic um the uh companies are going to try to make sure that they're compensated with something that they feel like would be appropriate for you know from a business standpoint. 01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:36.640 So they they just couldn't handle that um at the time. 01:08:36.880 --> 01:08:45.199 Um and they came up with the idea of what if we get a few more um stores to pitch in. 01:08:45.439 -->

01:09:13.840 And um then the word got out that there's a handful of stores that are trying to, you know, uh um participate in this uh initiative, but uh the cover was uh sent to a few individuals, uh retailers, and those individual retailers sent it to some other folks, and people were like, Wait, what is this? 01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:15.439 Yeah, they'd be freaking out. 01:09:15.760 --> 01:09:17.680 Yeah, I need to be a part of this thing or whatever. 01:09:17.760 --> 01:09:22.000 And and so it, you know, the the two or three became ten. 01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:31.279 And um never ever that's never been done before in terms of like the history of uh this industry. 01:09:31.600 --> 01:09:54.560 Um and uh man, I couldn't be prouder of this this uh initiative and and and and just what it represents in terms of not just with the retailers, but the character, the significance of the character. 01:09:56.640 --> 01:10:01.279 Yeah, that character is so beloved, um, black and white, you know, and yeah, for sure. 01:10:01.920 --> 01:10:03.279 And everything in between. 01:10:03.520 --> 01:10:07.119 And um, and um, but it is very significant. 01:10:07.279 --> 01:10:12.960 It is the miles of the DC, I I would argue it might be more popular, you know. 01:10:13.119 --> 01:10:22.319 If it if it was, if if if static was to get a Spider-Verse type movie, oh my gosh, yeah, it might be more it might be more popular. 01:10:22.479 --> 01:10:29.680 I don't know, you know, because they're they're in this they're on the same trajectory uh in terms of uh impact. 01:10:30.159 --> 01:10:46.079 But um just the what what what the the story represents now with static joining the DCU proper or the DC, yeah, the DCU proper is a is a is a tremendous thing. 01:10:46.319 --> 01:10:48.800 And um stay tuned. 01:10:48.960 --> 01:10:57.920 Um there's there's more that these guys are obviously once you see one thing, you're you're now thinking, what else can we do? 01:10:58.079 --> 01:11:09.039 And and this is going to be the other part of it that that's so um awesome is that it is helped the stores um from a revenue standpoint. 01:11:09.199 --> 01:11:10.720 That was the ultimate goal anyway. 01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:16.159 Yeah, and it it raised their uh it raised their rising tide raises all ships in that kind of way, right? 01:11:16.399 --> 01:11:18.319 It raised their IP in a way. 01:11:18.640 --> 01:11:19.119 Exactly. 01:11:19.199 --> 01:11:26.159 It you know, it it it brought in customers, it definitely um raised their profile. 01:11:26.479 --> 01:11:28.399 Um there are many. 01:11:28.479 --> 01:11:29.439 I've heard many comments. 01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:32.800 I I did Dragon Con um last week. 01:11:33.119 --> 01:11:37.039 I could not tell you how many people um that came up to me. 01:11:37.279 --> 01:11:43.520 Um one trying to find the book because they were hoping and praying that I had copies. 01:11:43.600 --> 01:11:48.720 I I had a few, but they weren't yesterday's price is not today's price, right? 01:11:48.880 --> 01:11:50.079 Yeah, exactly. 01:11:50.319 --> 01:11:54.399 Um because I've seen what they've gone the what they're going for. 01:11:55.600 --> 01:11:57.520 It's it's ridiculous, man. 01:11:57.760 --> 01:12:04.079 Um and um, but uh um uh I lost my train of thought. 01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:32.079 Um Dragon Con came up to the Yeah, so the the Dragon Con folks they came up and and they you know the the sentiment across the board was uh the appreciation in of their not only their stores or or if you're there were customers, you know, being a um uh a customer of that store of their local store, seeing it get it get the notoriety. 01:12:32.239 --> 01:12:41.359 I mean, there's news, you know, um uh reports and interviews, and it's a big deal. 01:12:42.239 --> 01:12:50.159 Yeah, they're they're they're they're being profiled, um, they're getting notoriety from all these different facets of of um media. 01:12:50.399 --> 01:13:03.920 And um, yeah, it all just came from truth be told, it came from uh me wanting to do a variant cover, but um I'm telling on myself here a little. 01:13:04.239 --> 01:13:08.079 And I missed the deadline to do the the cover. 01:13:08.239 --> 01:13:16.880 Yeah, right, because I was working on something else and I just missed it, and um, they were going to move it to another uh issue, the next issue. 01:13:17.760 --> 01:13:34.640 And I'm like, wait, let's see if we can get a retailer to do it because I still feel like this cover represents the significance of the character uh static joining the uh DCU and and and the the Titans, and um that's where it all started. 01:13:35.359 --> 01:13:39.600 And I I apologize to my listeners and watchers if I didn't explain what the Inc. 01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:48.079 Alliance is, it's uh a network of black-owned stores in in America, which there are way fewer than I would have ever thought. 01:13:48.239 --> 01:13:55.840 Um, you know, I and and to have them come together and do this, so yeah, it it's an important thing. 01:13:56.000 --> 01:14:12.239 Um, you know, a lot of a lot of the people that we know in the space that I occupy, um, you know, like BJ Kicks and you know, some other uh friends that you know were literally, you know, trying to get copies by going to a place where they were, you know, like far away. 01:14:12.319 --> 01:14:13.920 I mean, it's it's pretty amazing. 01:14:14.000 --> 01:14:29.199 And and I think it's extremely important to highlight stores that are owned by whether it be black people, whether it be women, you know, any any because this, you know, this comic space is dominated by white and it is, and it has been for a long time. 01:14:29.680 --> 01:14:44.159 It is the it is the uh I don't know if you want to call it the elephant in the room, but you know, it's it's just one of those things where we we there are a lot of us in this space, and that that was the other part of it too. 01:14:44.399 --> 01:14:53.840 Was I was I had met uh

Mike uh Davis and his and his uh business partner uh blurs of the underground. 01:14:54.159 --> 01:15:00.640 Met those guys at San Diego like last year, and they were dressed to the nine. 01:15:00.720 --> 01:15:05.760 They got nominated for uh for Neisner for uh for retailer. 01:15:06.079 --> 01:15:14.640 Um and um they they they look like moguls for a nightclub or something. 01:15:15.279 --> 01:15:22.319 They had a nice, you know, nice suits and the you know the little handkerchief and you know I mean it's real sharp, sharp dudes. 01:15:22.479 --> 01:15:37.199 And uh, and I I was just like, man, you guys are you're you're you're an anomaly, anomaly, but you're also um you're you're what this industry needs. 01:15:37.359 --> 01:15:40.640 It needs a jolt of something that looks like that. 01:15:40.800 --> 01:15:43.520 It doesn't have to just be a person of color. 01:15:43.760 --> 01:15:57.039 It but it it showed a level of they showed like a level of business and sophistication that that if someone coming from the outside didn't know any better, they would think they were nightclub owners. 01:15:57.119 --> 01:15:58.000 Oh, we own a comic. 01:15:58.479 --> 01:15:58.720 Right? 01:15:58.880 --> 01:15:59.840 I'm like, I like that. 01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:13.439 I like that that you guys are are going against whatever that stereotype that that you know uh tends to uh be the overarching, you know. 01:16:13.840 --> 01:16:18.000 Comic shop owner in general stereotype is right such an easy thing to spot. 01:16:18.479 --> 01:16:25.119 It's an easy thing to spot, but I I I'm I'm of the mind that why do why does does it have to be that way? 01:16:25.199 --> 01:16:31.760 It should it should that should not be the the it shouldn't be the norm, it shouldn't be. 01:16:31.920 --> 01:16:34.800 But you know, obviously it is, but why not? 01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:39.279 Why, why, why, why can't it have this kind of look, this aesthetic, you know? 01:16:39.439 --> 01:16:42.159 Again, it doesn't have to be, you know, a person of color. 01:16:42.880 --> 01:16:44.239 No, no, you just in general. 01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:45.760 They just happen to be. 01:16:45.840 --> 01:16:52.079 And and that brings even more of a of a of a spotlight um on it. 01:16:52.159 --> 01:16:56.880 And so I I was just enamored with these dudes, and I just wanted to know more about them. 01:16:56.960 --> 01:17:00.800 I'm like, man, you guys are like, you know, I don't see this every day. 01:17:01.039 --> 01:17:06.720 Um, I don't see it ever, you know, let alone, you know, uh black store owners. 01:17:06.800 --> 01:17:11.520 Um I don't think I've ever met, I shouldn't say ever, but I I know a few. 01:17:11.680 --> 01:17:19.520 Um, you know, uh Jermaine in in in in in North Carolina in uh the uh Greensboro area. 01:17:19.680 --> 01:17:22.880 I've known him for a long time, um, and a couple of other guys. 01:17:22.960 --> 01:17:25.439 They were they're there's some of the members of the Inc. 01:17:25.520

--> 01:17:30.640 Alliance, the original members, and um, but I've known guys like him for a long time. 01:17:30.800 --> 01:17:37.279 And um, but that that was a thought many years ago. 01:17:37.439 --> 01:17:40.720 Like, man, I don't see too many black folks. 01:17:40.880 --> 01:17:48.319 And when I do see them, I try my best to, you know, keep keep a breast of what they have going on. 01:17:48.479 --> 01:17:53.279 There's there was one young lady up in Boston. 01:17:53.920 --> 01:18:00.239 She had a coffee shop and a um and a comic shop, which I thought was a brilliant idea. 01:18:00.560 --> 01:18:02.079 That is a brilliant idea. 01:18:02.399 --> 01:18:05.279 And uh unfortunately it closed because of the pandemic. 01:18:05.760 --> 01:18:19.039 So, you know, um, those are the kind of things that I mean, if it's hard enough for your average, you know, white store owners, just imagine, you know, what it does to someone, you know, of color. 01:18:19.359 --> 01:18:19.600 Sure. 01:18:19.920 --> 01:18:22.319 Or like you said, a w a uh a woman. 01:18:22.560 --> 01:18:23.439 Yeah, yeah. 01:18:23.600 --> 01:18:33.680 It's um, I mean, just small business in general, and then yeah, dial it into a a small business in a country where I don't know what the literacy rate is, but it's fucking terrible. 01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:35.039 Yeah, yeah. 01:18:35.199 --> 01:18:51.199 I mean, you know, we're you know, but again, I think this this was definitely the um the the launching point for for some really great things to come and um say to them. 01:18:51.520 --> 01:18:52.159 Yeah. 01:18:52.399 --> 01:19:06.720 Um, I did want to ask, somebody had asked me this, maybe like within the last month in my community, to like ask when I talk to artists, and you're really good at your cover design is pretty wild. 01:19:06.800 --> 01:19:10.079 Like it's it it spans different kinds of designs. 01:19:10.319 --> 01:19:18.319 But what what they asked me was what goes into a creator's mind when you're deciding to either homage somebody or homage yourself, which you have done. 01:19:18.399 --> 01:19:30.000 I mean, the Wolverine cover that's next to the Doom, you homaged yourself on it, the Spider-Man uh variant you did, which is a homage to like Johnny Romita, uh I you know, Spider-Man 100. 01:19:30.239 --> 01:19:37.600 But like when you're designing a cover and you do a lot of variant covers, so many that I I don't own them all, and and they're awesome. 01:19:37.760 --> 01:19:41.840 Like, I I sometimes message you and be like, Are you gonna sell this one? 01:19:42.079 --> 01:19:49.359 Um, but what yeah, when you're designing a cover that's not for your book, you know, something that's just a variant cover. 01:19:49.520 --> 01:19:52.399 What are you thinking when you're designing it? 01:19:52.479 --> 01:19:53.920 Like, how do you approach a design? 01:19:54.000 --> 01:19:56.640 And when does that design go into you know what? 01:19:56.720 --> 01:19:58.319 I'm gonna homage this. 01:19:59.119 --> 01:20:06.159 Well, truth be told, the homage to the Doom cover was not my decision. 01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:08.960 That was I'm just being honest. 01:20:09.119 --> 01:20:09.680 Uh yeah. 01:20:09.920 --> 01:20:20.720 I felt I felt like you know, once you once you do it, it's kind of like, you know, that's you know, you're you're you're you're kind of revisiting, you're doing a remake of your original. 01:20:20.960 --> 01:20:21.920 You already did it, though. 01:20:22.319 --> 01:20:34.000 So why you but but the other part of it is um I guess um they saw the value in what that cover has brought. 01:20:34.159 --> 01:20:37.760 I mean, I've seen it on all kinds of stuff, the uh the Doom cover. 01:20:37.920 --> 01:20:38.319 Yeah, yeah. 01:20:38.560 --> 01:20:46.960 And um, it's being repurposed on you know, everything from trees to wallpapers to whatever merchandise. 01:20:47.119 --> 01:20:49.840 Don't see a cut from it, but that's the story. 01:20:51.600 --> 01:20:55.760 So, you know, that's why I didn't want to do another version of it because you're gonna take that one too. 01:20:55.840 --> 01:20:56.880 No, just anyway. 01:20:56.960 --> 01:20:59.039 So uh don't don't get me started. 01:21:00.640 --> 01:21:02.399 I don't want to get you into hot hot water. 01:21:02.800 --> 01:21:05.199 Because diatribe, they know, they know. 01:21:05.279 --> 01:21:06.479 I'm like, come on, guys. 01:21:06.640 --> 01:21:14.159 Um, but no, um that that was not that one specifically was not my decision. 01:21:14.239 --> 01:21:26.159 I was actually um uh contacted to do, inquired to do um an homage, doom homage of that absolute Batman as well. 01:21:26.399 --> 01:21:26.880 Oh wow. 01:21:28.399 --> 01:21:29.600 You're like, not again. 01:21:29.760 --> 01:21:31.199 I was like, not again, not again. 01:21:31.359 --> 01:21:53.199 I mean, obviously, if I had if I hadn't done the Wolverine one, I probably would have did it because that that just you know, by that time, you know, Wolverine, now this thing, it just feels it just felt like overkill, and it kind of takes away from the special um uh the specialness of the uh Doom cover. 01:21:53.439 --> 01:21:57.199 And so yeah, I just didn't want to water it down or anything like that. 01:21:57.279 --> 01:22:00.800 Um, and I get it, you know, maybe maybe 10 years from now, I don't know. 01:22:00.960 --> 01:22:01.680 Who knows? 01:22:01.840 --> 01:22:05.600 If there's something that lines up and it makes sense, I would love to do it. 01:22:05.840 --> 01:22:26.720 But to the actual question, um honestly, I I'm getting a lot into just graphic design, composition and graphic design, and um a lot of of look, Pinterest can be a rabbit hole. 01:22:27.680 --> 01:22:36.000 Yeah, it can suck you in for hours, days if you're not careful, just scrolling through all this stuff. 01:22:36.239 --> 01:22:47.119 And um, there's times I I I I get on there and I'm looking at just some interesting combination, some composition of

something. 01:22:47.760 --> 01:22:55.199 Look, even even the the AI slot, I've I've I see something in it enough to go, hey, that's interesting. 01:22:55.439 --> 01:23:01.039 You know, I'm not necessarily take I'm not gonna take that and do you know, verbatim, obviously. 01:23:01.359 --> 01:23:02.159 Sure, sure. 01:23:02.399 --> 01:23:07.279 But there's something in it that makes me go, like the I like that color combination, right? 01:23:07.359 --> 01:23:08.000 Yeah. 01:23:08.319 --> 01:23:11.119 Um let me just put a pin on that. 01:23:11.439 --> 01:23:20.079 Well, it's also because it's pulling from so many sources, like you're getting inspir, you're looking at it, and you know that inspiration actually comes from something that that AI stole. 01:23:20.319 --> 01:23:20.640 Right. 01:23:20.720 --> 01:23:28.079 It came from something that actually was, you know, a really good like you know, composition or body of work. 01:23:28.399 --> 01:23:45.039 But um, but no, I I it's it's and it's also I think recently, especially with having done so many, you know, covers, um, I'm starting to value and study the less is more approach. 01:23:45.199 --> 01:23:46.960 Yeah, like the Venom one. 01:23:47.279 --> 01:23:48.560 Like the Venom one. 01:23:48.720 --> 01:23:55.119 Um, there's there's one I did it I did with um Superboy. 01:23:55.279 --> 01:23:59.920 It was just him on the cover, yellow background, there was no anything else. 01:24:00.159 --> 01:24:09.840 Um, even covers like the uh the Doom cover, not the the um the Doom one-shot, but the uh the One World. 01:24:10.079 --> 01:24:23.119 One World under Doom, that one was about just creating a dynamic or a bold image and creating you know a composition within it that this this bold image. 01:24:23.439 --> 01:24:29.920 And um it um it you know, I I think a lot about less is more. 01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:44.319 Uh and that that's not me doing literally less work, it's just more of creating a really interesting focal point and pushing back everything else around it. 01:24:45.600 --> 01:24:54.720 And um yeah, so that's that's been recently how how I have uh approached doing covers. 01:24:54.960 --> 01:24:59.600 I mean, you you have a multitude of kinds of designs for your covers. 01:24:59.680 --> 01:25:10.880 I mean, just look at what's on the back wall behind me, but that venom one really stuck out to me because it's very I don't think I consciously realized it until I was looking at it upside down. 01:25:10.960 --> 01:25:14.560 And I'm like, this image works any way you look at it, right? 01:25:15.039 --> 01:25:21.119 And you know, that's not something you see too often on a comic cover, you know. 01:25:21.279 --> 01:25:26.640 I mean, you see it in art in general, some you know, like or you see it on interior panel design. 01:25:26.800 --> 01:25:32.079 You know, I um, you know, sometimes you look at a page and it's like wow, I could read this from every direction. 01:25:32.319 --> 01:25:35.840 Um but but yeah, I just it kind of stuck out to me. 01:25:35.920 --> 01:25:39.279 And I I'm not a cover collector, not not by nature, you know. 01:25:39.359 --> 01:25:58.079 I'm a artist collector and and I'm a collector of what I'm reading, but I found with you and Dan specifically, it's hard to walk by and not pick that cover up and not, you know, like I don't care what's in the book because I'm not reading that book, but I I love the you know, the piece of art on the cover. 01:25:58.239 --> 01:26:02.159 Um you know, and then yeah, yeah. 01:26:02.479 --> 01:26:09.279 Um uh we've got, I mean, we could probably talk for four hours, but I don't want to keep it too much longer because it's late for you. 01:26:09.359 --> 01:26:17.920 But uh we anything, I mean New York Comic Con, Icon Festival, you're gonna be at New York Comic-Con, right? 01:26:18.319 --> 01:26:20.000 Uh yes, yep, yeah, yep. 01:26:20.319 --> 01:26:21.359 Icon festival. 01:26:21.520 --> 01:26:25.520 Uh is there any chance that I'll be seeing you in Japan this year? 01:26:25.840 --> 01:26:29.520 Well, because of icon festival, no. 01:26:29.760 --> 01:26:33.680 Well sorry, sorry, yeah, because I know, I know. 01:26:33.920 --> 01:26:43.600 It it's look, if that wasn't in the schedule, uh added to the schedule, um there would have been a strong chance. 01:26:43.680 --> 01:26:49.760 Um, but I also I know that um Felix, I think it's the same is similar. 01:26:50.000 --> 01:26:56.960 He he um because of because of the icon thing, he may go over for uh I don't know, you know how he goes. 01:26:57.039 --> 01:27:04.079 He plane and jump be in you know Japan for two days and come right back or whatever. 01:27:04.399 --> 01:27:16.079 But I don't have that luxury of being that six hours in between, six hours in between, oh yeah, and then and then you know, deadline stuff, yeah, other you know, things to come. 01:27:17.279 --> 01:27:21.920 Um, but I do I I will I whatever you're going, I'm definitely going. 01:27:22.000 --> 01:27:44.079 Because like yeah, after after last year with with Ma Food and Dave Croslin and like kind of doing all this stuff together, I'm like, yeah, I by the time the next person that wants to go with me to Japan, that's an uh artist and also somebody that likes looking at books, it's I'm gonna be like taking people around to stores and stuff. 01:27:44.399 --> 01:27:46.560 So you're gonna be my plug, is what you're saying. 01:27:46.800 --> 01:27:47.600 Yeah, exactly. 01:27:48.319 --> 01:27:55.920 Yeah, I I man, the the the one time that I was there, I um we we stayed in Genza. 01:27:56.880 --> 01:27:58.720 I guess Ginza's really nice. 01:27:58.880 --> 01:27:59.840 Yeah, Genza's kind of like. 01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:02.960 The Manhattan of Tokyo, right? 01:28:03.439 --> 01:28:04.640 We stayed there. 01:28:05.359 --> 01:28:13.119 And then we went to Akirahabra, which is where all the really cool techie stuff is there. 01:28:13.199 --> 01:28:16.399 And a couple of uh Mandarakes is there.

01:28:17.680 --> 01:28:19.199 And then we went to Shibuya. 01:28:19.359 --> 01:28:25.760 And Shibuya, I don't know what it was about, it just felt like I was living in an anime. 01:28:26.079 --> 01:28:26.720 Yeah, yeah. 01:28:26.800 --> 01:28:28.319 It's kind of surreal. 01:28:28.720 --> 01:28:34.399 Yeah, I mean, it's like the folks just in the I guess the square right there. 01:28:34.560 --> 01:28:35.840 I guess the what do they call it? 01:28:35.920 --> 01:28:42.960 The little so yeah, that with the dog that's kind of like that statue that's right there. 01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:51.119 Post up and and and and just hang out, and they got on these crazy outfits just to have it on. 01:28:51.279 --> 01:28:56.399 It's like they're not there for an event or no, it's just nuts. 01:28:56.800 --> 01:29:06.640 It's just them coming with, you know, dressed up like a you know Sailor Moon and whatever, you know, and you're like, oh my god, this is in this is awesome. 01:29:06.800 --> 01:29:15.279 And you know, me being, you know, um statuesque, I can kind of take my camera and just stand in the middle. 01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:16.159 Yeah, yeah. 01:29:16.239 --> 01:29:21.920 You you're you're you're literally a a foot and a half above everybody, like a head, two heads above everybody. 01:29:22.079 --> 01:29:24.560 Yeah, it's like I I become like a human drone. 01:29:24.720 --> 01:29:29.520 I can walk with my camera way in the air. 01:29:29.920 --> 01:29:30.319 Yeah, yeah. 01:29:31.039 --> 01:29:31.680 Overhead. 01:29:31.840 --> 01:29:33.760 It's like uh it's pretty cool. 01:29:33.840 --> 01:29:35.119 But yeah, I would love to get back. 01:29:35.199 --> 01:29:40.960 I my my only time there was 2008, so it was a long time ago. 01:29:41.039 --> 01:29:43.840 We're talking over Wow, almost 20 years ago. 01:29:44.000 --> 01:29:45.600 Almost 20 years ago, man. 01:29:45.840 --> 01:29:46.319 Yeah. 01:29:46.560 --> 01:29:47.600 I gotta get back. 01:29:47.760 --> 01:29:48.800 I gotta get back. 01:29:49.039 --> 01:29:56.960 I I I'll be there this year and I'll um go back as as long as it makes sense and as long as it's you know uh something I can afford. 01:29:57.119 --> 01:30:01.840 But it's what I work towards for the whole year is just to go there, right? 01:30:02.000 --> 01:30:12.239 Um, so yeah, newer comic-con, icon, uh all DC all in saga, dark side versus the world out at the end of October. 01:30:12.479 --> 01:30:22.399 Um, any anything else that that is on the horizon that you're uh uh got coming to shops that we can at least talk about or at least mention, I should say. 01:30:22.800 --> 01:30:30.960 Well, no actual issues or or interiors, I I should say. 01:30:31.119 --> 01:30:33.680 Uh, you know, to your point, lots of covers. 01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:38.159 I got yeah, they got all kinds of uh variants that's that's dropping. 01:30:38.319 --> 01:30:41.039 Got a chain cotta issue too. 01:30:41.439 --> 01:30:42.159 Nice, yeah. 01:30:42.239 --> 01:30:44.000 You posted that on Instagram yesterday. 01:30:44.800 --> 01:30:47.680 That one was was was was awesome to do. 01:30:47.760 --> 01:31:01.199 It was pretty wild trying to um capture his energy, which is impossible sometimes, trying to figure out where so I try to do it justice, and um, so that's coming. 01:31:01.279 --> 01:31:02.880 I got a demon cover. 01:31:03.359 --> 01:31:05.920 Um, I think that's issue two as well. 01:31:06.239 --> 01:31:13.760 Um and so New York, there there is something coming with Mass Appeal, hadn't been announced yet. 01:31:13.920 --> 01:31:14.880 Just uh stay tuned. 01:31:14.960 --> 01:31:27.199 There's something else that should be announced um somewhere around New York in before doomsday comes out. 01:31:27.439 --> 01:31:28.399 Yeah, nice. 01:31:28.640 --> 01:31:36.079 There's there's something that I that I've dude, this thing, I've I've worked on this thing probably almost a year ago. 01:31:36.319 --> 01:31:36.800 Wow. 01:31:36.960 --> 01:31:44.640 You know, and um so hopefully it'll be ready ready to launch uh when that close to that date. 01:31:44.880 --> 01:31:50.079 Um outside of comics, I'm actually working, uh I guess I can say this. 01:31:50.239 --> 01:31:51.760 I'm working on Spider-Verse 3. 01:31:51.920 --> 01:31:53.920 Yes, I had a feeling you were. 01:31:54.560 --> 01:31:55.520 Yeah, there is that. 01:31:55.600 --> 01:31:59.439 Uh I've already worked on it um earlier this year. 01:31:59.600 --> 01:32:04.479 Um I created um looks like I got uh I'm gonna have a creator credit. 01:32:04.800 --> 01:32:05.279 Awesome. 01:32:05.520 --> 01:32:07.039 Congratulations again on that. 01:32:07.680 --> 01:32:08.319 Yeah, yeah. 01:32:08.399 --> 01:32:26.880 Like uh, well, um character developed um part of the uh Vizdev team and um one of the one of the um more significant characters in the first um the first act of the of the movie. 01:32:27.359 --> 01:32:34.159 Um I helped design that and um pretty proud and excited about about that. 01:32:34.560 --> 01:32:37.840 Trust me, you you're not ready for for what it is. 01:32:39.680 --> 01:32:40.560 You're not ready. 01:32:40.640 --> 01:33:19.199 The way that the way that that they thought of how to approach these these long-standing characters, I mean uh obviously um comics like the absolute line, they fall into that space, but I think Spider-Verse has done a tremendous job of reimagining or or not even necessarily yeah, reimagining and and and just pushing the characters into really interesting, um, captive captivating um directions. 01:33:19.359 --> 01:33:21.520 Um, so yeah, stay tuned for that. 01:33:21.840 --> 01:33:22.319 Awesome. 01:33:22.399 --> 01:33:23.520 I'm excited for that. 01:33:23.680 --> 01:33:28.319 Um well uh I'll have whatever links in the description below. 01:33:28.399 --> 01:33:32.880 You know, you can find Sanford on all social media, but I did want to ask one last quick question. 01:33:33.680 --> 01:33:38.800 Could be the first thing that comes to your

head, but like what's what's your favorite Kirby book? 01:33:38.960 --> 01:33:43.039 Whether it's a single issue or a you know, you know, a run or whatever. 01:33:43.119 --> 01:33:54.239 But what I mean, I know you talked about on in the stacks Fantastic Four, but do you have a specific Fantastic Four issue that you like absolutely love or a specific uh fourth world issue or something? 01:33:54.960 --> 01:33:56.079 Oh man. 01:33:57.199 --> 01:34:01.039 You now you asked me when I just oh, there it is. 01:34:01.279 --> 01:34:09.760 So I'm gonna pull this out because this is one of the things that I studied when I first started the uh dark side story. 01:34:10.319 --> 01:34:11.119 This bad one. 01:34:11.439 --> 01:34:12.720 Oh yeah, yeah. 01:34:12.960 --> 01:34:13.840 Hunger Dogs. 01:34:13.920 --> 01:34:15.439 That that's a wild book. 01:34:15.680 --> 01:34:29.359 It's very wild, and I loved every moment of it, and um, yeah, this is definitely this was on the drawing board um every day. 01:34:29.680 --> 01:34:40.960 And um, and I still feel like I haven't done Kirby justice because I'm looking at I'm I'm looking at things in here and I'm like, oh, why didn't I do that? 01:34:41.039 --> 01:34:44.159 Or why didn't I give a you know a nod to this thing? 01:34:44.319 --> 01:34:54.000 But you know, part of it is uh there there are some things like his his panel layout uh design um is really unique. 01:34:55.039 --> 01:34:58.319 Yes, stuff like this here, or this here. 01:34:58.560 --> 01:34:59.279 Where am I at? 01:34:59.359 --> 01:35:00.399 Where am I pointing at? 01:35:00.640 --> 01:35:01.680 I don't know where I'm pointing. 01:35:01.760 --> 01:35:02.159 Where are we here? 01:35:02.239 --> 01:35:04.319 Where I can you we can see I can see it. 01:35:04.479 --> 01:35:06.560 Yeah, oh you're pointing on the splash page. 01:35:06.720 --> 01:35:07.680 Yeah, splash page. 01:35:07.760 --> 01:35:26.720 I I I I kind of paid homage to uh to to something that looks like that, but yeah, that that is definitely um the thing that I've been just combing through for the last um three, four months. 01:35:27.039 --> 01:35:27.680 Awesome. 01:35:27.840 --> 01:35:29.039 Well, glad to hear it. 01:35:29.119 --> 01:35:30.479 You know I'm excited for this issue. 01:35:30.640 --> 01:35:34.800 I mean, yeah, uh you know, I've I've known about it, I'm I'm excited for it. 01:35:34.880 --> 01:35:36.560 I can't wait for everybody to see it. 01:35:36.720 --> 01:35:44.319 Uh thank you all always for your time and for your positive mental attitude. 01:35:44.399 --> 01:35:46.399 Your PMA is always good. 01:35:46.800 --> 01:35:52.800 Um, but uh yeah, I and uh you know uh I'm just excited for everybody to see it. 01:35:52.880 --> 01:35:59.680 So out at the end of October, DC, all in saga, dark side versus the world versus Sanford Green. 01:36:00.159 --> 01:36:01.199 There we go. 01:36:01.920 --> 01:36:02.479 All right. 01:36:08.079 --> 01:36:17.520 Thanks for watching, thanks for listening, and big thanks to Sanford for his time and just uh for being a very humble, candid human being. 01:36:17.680 --> 01:36:24.960 It's great to talk to people that have been in the industry long enough where they've seen it, they've seen it all, and they love talking about it. 01:36:25.199 --> 01:36:49.119 You know, talking with him about original art and the legacy is uh, I think it's super important just to hear it, and it's super important for people um who maybe, you know, going into comics or people that don't have the experience that Sanford's had, um, and and just getting to hear it from somebody who who's been around for a while uh in this industry and even in the animation industry. 01:36:49.359 --> 01:36:52.319 Really excited for all the things that he's got coming down the pipeline. 01:36:52.479 --> 01:36:56.319 What we talked about on the record and what we talked about off the record. 01:36:56.399 --> 01:37:01.760 Um, it's just gonna be an exciting year to come for Sanford and fans of his work. 01:37:01.920 --> 01:37:04.479 You can pre-order the book, Dark Side versus the World. 01:37:04.640 --> 01:37:07.920 You will be hearing this before the FOC cut off. 01:37:08.079 --> 01:37:12.960 So you can go to your local comic store and say, hey, order me a copy of Dark Side versus the World. 01:37:13.039 --> 01:37:19.439 Uh, let me get all the variant covers, let me get 27 of the variant covers, whatever it is that you feel that you need. 01:37:19.600 --> 01:37:21.760 Uh it's your life and it's your money. 01:37:22.000 --> 01:37:24.000 But I am really excited for this book. 01:37:24.159 --> 01:37:27.760 Uh, the Doom Book took me by surprise and it took us by storm. 01:37:27.920 --> 01:37:30.720 And I know that this Dark Side book is going to be amazing. 01:37:30.880 --> 01:37:31.520 I just know it. 01:37:31.600 --> 01:37:37.920 If you haven't listened to Zarface Meets Frankie Pulitzer, you can go, you know, right after you finish listening to this, you can throw the album on. 01:37:38.159 --> 01:37:40.079 Omega Beam is the track, though. 01:37:40.239 --> 01:37:46.720 That is the track that features not just a sample of Sanford, but lyrics about Sanford and Dark Side. 01:37:46.960 --> 01:37:47.840 Um, what else? 01:37:48.000 --> 01:37:50.159 The Ink Alliance thing, keep your eye on that. 01:37:50.239 --> 01:37:53.199 Like he said, there's a lot of stuff to be announced in the future. 01:37:53.520 --> 01:37:57.199 Sanford will be at New York Comic-Con, he'll be at icon festival. 01:37:57.279 --> 01:38:03.279 Um, and then, you know, if you're not going to any of those cons this year, you can always catch him at Heroes, his hometown show. 01:38:03.600 --> 01:38:06.640 For me, you can do a couple of things, like I said at the beginning. 01:38:06.800 --> 01:38:08.479 You hit the like button if you're on YouTube. 01:38:08.640 --> 01:38:10.079 You can leave a comment if you're on YouTube. 01:38:10.399 --> 01:38:13.279 If you're listening on Spotify, you can also leave comments on there. 01:38:13.439 --> 01:38:18.159 You can rate and review the podcast on Spotify, Apple, Amazon, Pocketcast. 01:38:18.560 --> 01:38:23.920 Um, it's it's hosted by Buds Buzz Sprout, so I think you could even like support the show there. 01:38:24.159 --> 01:38:32.880 Um, and if you want to go a little bit deeper to supporting the show, I'd appreciate it if you take a look at the Patreon and consider becoming a five-dollar member. 01:38:33.119 --> 01:38:40.239 That gets you up to four exclusive videos between this channel and West Coast Avengers every month and every two months. 01:38:40.399 --> 01:38:47.760 There is a sale on there where I do like a private sale drop of personal collection stuff and stuff that uh the general public hasn't bought. 01:38:48.000 --> 01:38:52.640 Other ways to support the podcast and the two channels, WestcoastAventures.com. 01:38:52.720 --> 01:38:53.920 I have a shop there. 01:38:54.079 --> 01:38:58.239 You can buy books for me right there, rare stuff, out-of-print stuff, original art. 01:38:58.479 --> 01:39:05.760 There is a tea public store where you can get t-shirts of both channels and some other stuff like Sankowitz and see Todd by Todd. 01:39:05.840 --> 01:39:09.520 That link's in the description below, but it's also on westcoastaventures.com. 01:39:09.680 --> 01:39:12.239 Other ways to support the podcast is just by sharing it. 01:39:12.399 --> 01:39:24.560 If you post the episodes on places like Reddit or on threads or Twitter or Facebook and Facebook groups, like that gets it in front of people that I probably am not getting in front of when I'm promoting my own podcast. 01:39:24.880 --> 01:39:35.199 The way these things work these days, the more that people in the community share and support, the wider uh my reaches. 01:39:35.279 --> 01:39:40.960 And I am always trying to get new guests, but the visibility thing is a key part of it. 01:39:41.119 --> 01:39:46.640 So that's just me being very forthcoming and truthful about how all this works. 01:39:46.880 --> 01:39:48.399 I will be back next week. 01:39:48.560 --> 01:39:52.159 I hope you enjoyed this episode and I hope you're enjoying the podcast. 01:39:52.319 --> 01:39:55.199 Going forward, there's not going to be a break-in season. 01:39:55.279 --> 01:39:57.039 There might be a week or two off here or there. 01:39:57.199 --> 01:40:01.279 I'm in it for the long haul, so come on and join me and stay along for the ride. 01:40:01.439 --> 01:40:02.479 My name's Dave. 01:40:02.640 --> 01:40:04.000 This is Direct Edition. 01:40:05.520 --> 01:40:06.800 I love you.