บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Chew Creators John Layman & Rob Guillory Return With Ghost Brawler : Ghostbusters Meets Raging Bull!

stuff. 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:40.560 But let's talk to John Layman and Rob Gillary about Ghost Brawler, the Bruiser Edition. 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:49.520 Friends, we've got uh a great pair of guests today. 00:02:49.680 --> 00:03:03.840 Two uh two gentlemen, the co-creators of the legendary image comic Chew, but independently responsible for books like Farmhand, Outer Darkness, Rider on Batman Eternal, and Detective Comics. 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:13.840 Uh, but we're talking about a brand new book that is being kickstarted called Ghost Brawler, which uh is rare and to go and it is up right now. 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:16.319 And I'm talking to John Lehman and Rob Gillory. 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:18.080 Gentlemen, how are you? 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:19.680 Yeah, thanks for having us. 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:20.560 Yeah, man. 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:21.360 Thanks. 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:22.960 Yeah, my pleasure. 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:38.080 I mean, uh, you know, when I heard about this last year, I was excited because Chew was one of those books that um reignited my love or reignited my passion for seeking out independent creator-owned stories. 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:41.840 Uh, and you know, that kicked off a one hell of an era. 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:44.400 It's part of a wave of such great books. 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:48.960 And now you guys are back with Ghost Brawler and the premise. 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:51.759 I mean, it's it's kind of hilarious. 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:56.719 Like, I don't think anybody else would come up with a premise like this, and I'd be like, Oh, yeah, this is gonna be awesome. 00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:07.120 But it's uh so he's a boxer that flatlines, he gets brought back to life, and then he's able to see ghosts and also beat the shit out of them. 00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:08.240 Yep. 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:09.039 Yep. 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:14.240 So he goes to haunted houses, starts a business going to haunted houses and just beating the crap out of ghosts. 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:25.519 I mean, that is a a a great idea for a business if you were able to see and physically assault ghosts and put them, I guess, in the ground. 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:29.680 Uh yeah, uh, you know, he sends them away. 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:33.040 But the the the yeah, the the the mythology builds. 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:39.360 Uh, you know, he he uh it it you know he finds out he's more powerful than he thinks through the course of the first story. 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:50.160 Um so John, I mean, being the the writer of it, uh where does how how does this idea gestate like where how long has it been cooking? 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:55.600 And then when you brought it to Rob, Rob, I'd love I kind of want to hear what what your first reactions were were. 00:04:55.920 --> 00:05:11.759 You know, I've been I've been sort of playing with with the idea of somebody who could could physically like interact with a ghost and and it and in an early incarnation it was a pirate thing, you know, like a pirate ghost ship, and it was like a a kid's book, and it just it it just never felt right. 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:18.240 And then um, you know, uh I I don't know if you heard the announcement, but we've got a a chew development deal with Blumhouse. 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:52.319 So um so Rob and I have been talking a lot, anyways, and then we started doing this um um these one-page chew book things for Comics the Magazine, and so we're talking all the time, anyways, and I kind of get the sense that Rob's ready, and uh and then the other thing is I I spent a couple years working on um the Scorched for Todd and um and Titans for DC, and it was real nice, just two deadlines, good steady paychecks, you know, just you know, color within the lines, do what the editors want. 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:58.879 Um, and then I got um booted off both of them just for you know rearranging deck chairs as happens. 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:04.959 And uh and it was weird, this thing just like came out of me like a lightning bolt. 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:19.920 And uh, and you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm not getting paid, uh, but I sat down and wrote all five issues in two and a half months, which is wow, that's that's amazing initiative for me who's slow and lazy and and writing for free. 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:27.199 And uh and I just um because Rob and I had talked about doing stuff before, but like it never felt right. 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:32.240 And it's also it's the 10th anniversary of Chew ending, which is hard to believe. 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:34.160 And uh it was just time. 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:38.560 So I like I I put this thing together and just freaking dropped it on Rob's lap. 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:40.879 Yeah, yeah, I was not expecting it at all. 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:48.000 I mean, I had just I had wrapped farmhand a couple about a few months before, and I was just minding my own business. 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:55.839 I was actually planning, I was planning to do a Kickstarter uh solo, and I thought, you know, I was already kind of making movements on that. 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:58.240 I was John and I were talking all the time about it. 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:06.720 And uh then one random Saturday, I'm at a farmer's market with my family, and I look down at my phone and I have like 20 text messages with John. 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:08.560 I'm like, what is happening? 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:12.160 Uh he's like, yeah, I got this idea, and he spells it out for me. 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:14.319 I'm like, okay, cool, this sounds awesome. 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:16.639 Like, are are we are you pitching me? 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:18.000 Like, what is happening here? 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:20.959 Uh he's like, Yeah, well, you know, send you the pitch, tell me what you think. 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:24.160 So I get the pitch and love it right out of the gate. 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:28.959 And then I get the

first issue, and the first issue is just better than better than the pitch, really. 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:36.879 Um, you know, it just wasn't what I was expecting, but it felt it felt like the next evolution of our collaboration. 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:39.839 Um, so I I was all in from the get-go. 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:41.519 So yeah, and here we are. 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:44.319 This was not on my bingo card for 2026 at all. 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:45.920 Those are the best kind of things, right? 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:50.240 The things you don't expect, but like just make you so excited to be doing. 00:07:50.480 --> 00:08:00.079 Yeah, I I I don't think I was, I think it was subconsciously percolating while I was doing all this, you know, while my my eye was on the the DC and and and McFarland deadlines. 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:07.839 And uh, you know, as soon as I was free of that, man, it's like everything that everything that was locked away in here just just unlocked. 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:09.839 Um so great timing. 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:10.720 Yeah. 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:15.920 Um and Rob, I know you're I don't know if you still are, but I know you're a big wrestling fan. 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:21.920 Does this scratch a little bit of an itch of like wanting to do a wrestling comic, but it's you know, it's boxing instead? 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:27.920 Yeah, I mean, it'll probably be the closest to a pro wrestling comic that John will ever do with me. 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:29.839 Um that's for damn sure. 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:34.879 Because yeah, I mean, it's uh a pro wrestling comic is on my bucket list. 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:44.480 Um, you know, I've done stuff like there's a lot of comics fans in pro wrestling, like CM Punk, big pro big comic fan, Kofi, The New Day, all those guys. 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:47.120 Um bunch of ref referees are huge. 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:48.799 Yeah, Jason Ayers. 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:50.559 I think we might yeah, yeah. 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:54.720 So yeah, eventually I'll get there, but yeah, Ghost Brawler scratches that itch for now. 00:08:55.120 --> 00:09:02.879 Well, it's you know, it's funny because wrestling and comics are not just, you know, take the fan part out of it, but they are synonymous. 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:16.080 I mean, wrestlers are just real people with alter egos that play superheroes on TV, they just are able to do things physically that most of us would, you know, break a bun in our body just thinking about trying to do. 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:16.799 Yeah, yeah. 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:18.240 I think it's it's a fascinating. 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:19.519 I mean, I grew up with it. 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:24.080 My grandfather was um I think my grandfather went to his grave believing it was all real. 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:29.440 Um, but to this day, like he, I mean, he just he he bought in all the way with Kfabe. 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:32.480 Um, so yeah, no, one day I'll I'll

get that comic ad. 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:36.080 Well, till now we've got supernatural boxing. 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:45.360 Um John, do you have any like background in boxing fandom, or is this just kind of it it was just a vehicle like that you ended up switching to? 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:51.120 It's kind of uh we never say when this takes place, but it's clearly a period piece. 00:09:51.200 --> 00:10:22.960 It it's it we're we're saying 70s, 80s go so we get the gas guzzlers and wide lapels, and you know, to me that that's synonymous with like Raging Bull and um and you know the Rocky movies, uh, you know, mixed with you know Ghostbusters and Gremlins and Poltergeist, mixed with Casino and Sopranos and you know David Chase, like like there's a big like like just kind of 70s cinema uh kind of you know vibe to it, 70s, 80s, and then uh you know, a lot of a lot of gangster stuff. 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:30.639 But yeah, I'm I'm not you know, I I like a good sports movie once in a while, but I'm not a sports fan in any way, shape, or form. 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:38.879 I I guess it it did like I thought about Raging Bull when I first saw the the images that it came out and then like Cinderella man. 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:45.919 So that does it does make sense that you're pulling from that late 70s, early early 80s vibe. 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:51.759 Um I mean the one of the one of the marketing lines, it's it's uh raging bull as a ghost busting good fella. 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:56.240 That's a great actually, that's fantastic. 00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:00.799 That might even be the title of the podcast episode. 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:10.720 Yeah, it's weird because we we gave it to Prana and they kind of they they went more Rocky than Raging Bull, but to me it's uh it's it's more kind of rooted in like Scorsese movies. 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:11.279 Mm-hmm. 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:11.919 Mm-hmm. 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:13.840 But you know, fun and silly. 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:16.320 And Rocky's just a straight underdog story. 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:27.120 There's no right, there's no I'm gonna make money doing this for a living type type five where uh the lead character so so let's dive into that a little bit. 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:28.399 The the the plot. 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:31.039 He's he's alive, but he did die. 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:31.600 Yeah. 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:37.759 Um is it does it lean into the con comedy sensibility almost right away? 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:38.480 Like what? 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:40.000 Because you guys are really good. 00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:45.440 I mean, Rob, your art reflects what John writes in the comedy aspect of it. 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:49.360 Um, so does it lean into that pretty heavily quickly in the book? 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:58.960 Uh you know, I I I think um more more like absurdity and and like Chew, you know, Chew had a lot of goofy stuff, but it also played it straight. 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:05.840 You know, it's it's you know, I don't, I don't uh I don't sacrifice character for the sake of a laugh. 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:09.600 So it's you know, he he's gonna be in absurd situations. 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:18.240 Like, for instance, he lives with his mother, who is the typical sort of Jewish Italian, like overbearing, you know, where's my grandchild, you know, blah, blah, blah. 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:22.480 She's also dead and in a chair, just like uh Norman Bates's mother. 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:27.440 But she uh she won't allow him, you know, oh I I'm not gonna be buried in that cemetery, you know. 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:28.480 I don't like that cemetery. 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:33.759 So she's like the old person who won't allow the kid to put her in a home, but the home is the cemetery. 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:45.120 So I mean, and it's you know, it's played straight, but it's the idea of here's his withered mother and a lazy boy, and then the ghost is, you know, uh, you know, just bossing around this, you know, Italian guy. 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:54.480 And and Rob, like when you're getting these script pages, are you uh like immediately just like doing thumbnail sketches? 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:56.080 Are you just are you laughing? 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:57.600 Are you like imagining it? 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:03.759 Like how how does your process come, especially you know, working with John, somebody that you're so used to working with? 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:07.120 Like, are you immediately just picturing how this is gonna look? 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:12.720 Yeah, I mean, I usually with all of John's scripts, I mean, I kind of come to them as a fan first. 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:20.000 Um, because I was a fan of all of John's early work way before we got together, you know, his stuff with Dave Croslin, Puff, uh, Scarface. 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:21.600 I was a big fan of his stuff to begin with. 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:33.200 So anytime I get a script from him, I usually just read it just purely as a fan, kind of sucking it, sucking it in and kind of um immersing myself in it, just purely enjoying it. 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:43.919 And then I go back, I usually let it sit for a couple days and kind of marinate, and I'll go back and kind of chew on it again and start to kind of look at it more from a storytelling perspective. 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:48.639 And uh it it sort of it emerges over time, you know. 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:52.639 Um, but yeah, usually it the thumbnails and the visual aspects kind of come later. 00:13:52.960 --> 00:14:01.039 It's usually just kind of getting a sense of what John is going for, what the heart of everything is, what the world is, and I the art comes later. 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:02.240 Okay. 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.200 Um, and then this is the bruiser edition. 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:18.639 So this is gonna be basically like the preview edition or the full is it the full preview, is it

the full full five issues, or what are we getting with the Kickstarter uh to start? 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:20.720 You want to take that, Rob? 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:21.440 Or you want me to? 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:22.879 Yeah, yeah, I'll take it. 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:27.919 Uh so yeah, we have a lot of um kind of treats that are kind of surprises for later. 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:32.799 Um, but to to initially it's gonna be the first two issues, um, black, white, and blue. 00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:35.919 It's complete issues presented in black, white, and blue. 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:41.360 Um, and we're looking at full script, we're looking at concept art, uh uh what else? 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:47.840 Uh covers for the first five issues, uh, bunch of goodies, some previews from the next issues after that. 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:51.440 Um, and there's some stretch goals that are that kind of add on to that. 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.320 Yeah, we got it, we got a big stretch goal. 00:14:54.399 --> 00:15:01.919 Like, assuming this gets funded, we're gonna be like, look, here's here's our shoot the moon stretch goal, and it's a good one, and it's also chew related. 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:10.480 So we're gonna, you know, you know, kind of lean into like, oh, you we we always have like straight out if you're a chew fan, you will like this book. 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:22.320 Like we are going for that market, uh, you know, which we haven't necessarily done in the past, you know, like you know, farmhand and outer darkness, you know, if you like chew, you know, maybe you'll like this, but it's not the same thing. 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:24.799 This is we are going for the same audience here. 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:26.960 Yeah, that that makes sense. 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:29.679 That makes me happy too, because uh, you know, it's easy. 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:43.600 I mean, like, in terms of we just strip back and we talk about the comic book business, it's super easy to market when the same two people are working on a different book that the people that followed you from chew are gonna love. 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:44.159 Yeah, yeah. 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:46.320 I mean, look at Brew Baker and Phillips. 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:50.000 Like, you know, you can just buy everything they do, you know, you know what you're gonna get. 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:50.879 Yeah, yeah. 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:53.360 No, and I you don't even have to say the name of the book. 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:57.039 All you do is have to say it's Brew Baker and Phillips, you know. 00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:57.679 Yep. 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:07.919 I mean, that that is one of the great things about uh, and I'll put you guys in that conversation because you know, I'm 46, and so the great teams in comics span. 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:13.519 I I'm not gonna talk about people I didn't read when I was, you know, when they were you know what I'm saying. 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:33.840 Like I can't talk about the people that I wasn't reading off the off the stands, but you guys are in that conversation when we talk about some of the great teams in independent comic books, and like that's the great thing about comics is when two people work together consistently, we can talk about their work consistently, yeah, yeah. 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:41.759 And you know, I think uh people can go into this Kickstarter knowing, you know, it's it's it's as close to a sure thing as you're gonna get from a Kickstarter. 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.759 Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:44.960 I think that's one of the cool things. 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:52.559 Like when we first started working together on Shu, um, and you know, the initial plan was like five issues and let's see how it goes. 00:16:52.720 --> 00:17:04.559 So at some point when we when we realized it was gonna be able to go the distance and do 60 issues, like I always wanted to do the the runs I like are like your why and why the last man or your trans metropolitan. 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:09.519 Uh when I look at creative teams, I think of like Jeff Loeb and Tim Sell. 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:11.920 Um, they're two of my f absolute favorites. 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:15.119 Like anytime I see them on a thing, I'm like, I want that. 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:20.240 I know I know they're gonna bring something specific but original every single time. 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:29.200 So I've always wanted me and John to kind of be in that same category of like we could go from here and there and do completely different things that still feel like us. 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.160 Um so that's kind of the goal. 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:36.160 Yeah, yeah, and it's and it's magic when y'all work together. 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:51.839 I mean, you know, piggybacking off of that, I think about you know, Annis and Dylan, and whenever they had something, whether it was Punisher, Preacher, whatever they did together, I was like, Yeah, I want it, or Frank Quietly and Grant Morrison, you know, you just know there's gonna be magic there. 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:56.559 Um, so it's interesting because you know, 17 years ago, right? 00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:59.440 2009 was when Shu came out. 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:13.119 I know, but but what's interesting about that is that you guys were on a path with a bunch of other creators of that wave of like you know, saga and sex criminals. 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:18.319 And I I look at Lock and Key, even though it was an image, it was it was around that time too. 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:29.279 But the special thing about Shu, you guys were able to make merch off of almost every aspect of that book, and it was all great. 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:30.079 Like it wasn't. 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:36.160 Well, I mean, a lot of that is credited, I mean, all of it's credited to meeting skilt and crew. 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:48.559 I mean, they they they've done, you know, we've we've

had like mini mates and a game and an RPG, but like the majority of stuff uh has been them, and they they're just you know fantastic and their attention to quality is just nuts. 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:54.960 I mean, there's a uh that's the the wall of of chew right there. 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:56.480 Yeah, look at that. 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:21.359 I mean it's but what's interesting about that is it you know, looking at the business now and the way that creators have to not just get the name of their book out and and create, obviously, but giving uh giving people, the fans, something to put on their shelves, something besides the books that's like it's uh it's almost an extra reminder about how much you love the thing that you just read. 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.319 And um, so I I always appreciated that. 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:32.240 But going into to Ghost Brawler, do you see any any like you know things coming out of that and that aspect? 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:42.799 We don't have anything planned yet, but you know, we didn't we didn't like look at Chogs or Pollo as like a merchandise, like they they kind of grew organically. 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:44.880 So we'll you know we'll see what takes off. 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:59.599 But like um, you know, I know based on Chu, like some other comics said, you know, oh you know, we need you know a certain logo, or we they they have built-in marketing stuff, which you know, I I'd rather it just you know grow organically. 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:00.960 Yeah, yeah. 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:04.160 I mean, even I mean that I think that's the thing I learned. 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:20.799 I mean, the probably the most from Chu in addition to making the actual work was kind of the um the the licensing and the merchandising and all that kind of stuff, but it has to be organic, like with the skeleton crew thing, the way that came together, they were making the lock and key keys. 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:30.799 And I um I bought a bunch, and uh I when I got the keys, they sent me some extra keys and they sent me a card saying, Hey, we're huge fans of Chew. 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:34.640 Uh maybe we can do something together, and then it sparked from there. 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:40.640 So, like every bit of merch we've ever done, I mean, on any of our books, uh, has always kind of come from that. 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:45.119 It's just yeah, you know, we we dig each other's work, you do something cool, we do something cool. 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:49.440 Maybe we could come together and make something even more cool that people will enjoy. 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:52.960 So that's I think that tends to be the best kind of partnership. 00:20:53.279 --> 00:21:04.160 Yeah, I was curious about that because like back in those times, you know, the advertisements for for skeleton crew were in the back of books, but there was nobody talking about how this all you know came about. 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:11.200 And um, I think it's a fascinating moment in the indie, you know, independent comic and creator own scene. 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:25.759 I think it's a fascinating moment that most people maybe don't realize how big of a thing that was, because then you know saga would go on to do merch, and sex criminals would have their own cult of you know amazing merch and fan-made stuff. 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:41.519 And I I think, as the reader, you know, the person that's on the other side of it, I think for an independent creator-owned thing, I love being able to wear that kind of stuff and walk around with it and you know, advertise it, you know. 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:42.400 Oh, yeah, sure. 00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:49.279 I mean, there's nothing better than when you saw like somebody wearing a chog hat or a uh a chew shirt uh, you know, at a convention. 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:50.000 Yeah. 00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:56.240 Uh you know, it doesn't happen so often now, but you know, when it did in the Chew Heyday, man, it was a it was a good feeling. 00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:57.680 Yeah, yeah. 00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:07.759 Um moving forward with You know, I know that you're there's a development deal of Chew and and you know that had uh you you've had a couple of iterations of it. 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:10.480 This is our fifth time on the merry-go-round. 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:17.759 Yeah, but this time it's uh it seems like it's the gas, the gas is to the ground and and it's moving forward pretty quick. 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:18.720 Well, yeah. 00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:23.200 Well, I mean, Hollywood moves really quick and then it doesn't, and then it does. 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:48.480 And um, you know, the we the we got Randall Park, we got Blumhouse, we got a we got a showrunner uh who's putting stuff out, and then they're they're waiting there, you know, there are seasons to sell in uh uh you know, and you don't do it around the holidays, you don't do it in the summer, so they're they're gearing up for the next, you know, to you know, to to what they call take it out, you know, to the networks, and they're they're looking to round out more cast members. 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:56.880 You know, we're having discussions who you know who would be the the the ideal Savoy, who would be the ideal Amelia, you know, uh you know the the sister Tony. 00:22:57.039 --> 00:22:59.599 So like um, you know, we're batting around names. 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:05.279 Funny thing was I got on Facebook the other uh the other week, and I'm like, hey, who would you cast for Savoy? 00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:07.279 Just like let my friends, you know, pick. 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:10.799 And then I showed it to the Hollywood person, he's like, oh, this is a good idea. 00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:12.640 Oh, I can get him, I can do that. 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:16.079 So, you know, I I I didn't tell my friends they were doing research for me. 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:23.839 Oh, yeah, no, it's it's yeah, the

Hollywood stuff's been interesting and some, I mean, yeah, like John was saying, we've been through this so many different times. 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:28.720 I think what's cool about this time is I just feel like we've learned so much, you know. 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:38.000 I mean, like you said, we've been doing this too since 2009, and we have we've always had consistent interest from Hollywood regarding Shu the entire time. 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:44.799 And we've I think we finally got into a place where we're um we're pretty good at advocating for ourselves. 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:55.039 And I think should this show happen, which it does look like it will, we'll be way more involved and have more uh influence in it than we ever would have had before. 00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:58.240 So it's it's been a super cool experience the entire time. 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:00.480 Plus, I mean like Hollywood has kind of come around. 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:10.000 Like when we were starting to make shoe in 2009, uh Hollywood was still kind of in this phase of, you know, well, the comic that works on the comic, but that would never work on the big screen. 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:10.240 Right. 00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:12.079 So they would change things and that sort of thing. 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.640 And their big one was Asians don't sell, right? 00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:17.519 You know, yeah, every everyone's gotta be white, right? 00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:22.559 Yeah, so well, I I th those days are hopefully and rapidly changing. 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:23.039 Yes. 00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:27.039 So, like, I mean, now you're in it, we're in the era of a literal translation. 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:31.200 Wolverine can wear the yellow costume on the big screen, and it looks cool. 00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:33.279 So that probably works really in our favor. 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:35.279 We could because she was a weird comic. 00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:40.640 I mean, there's lots of stuff that they probably would have never allowed in it, you know, 12 years ago. 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:44.240 But now and I think uh I think you can get away with a lot. 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:57.440 Yeah, the boys has helped, Invincibles helped, like you know, all these good adaptations have shown you know you don't have to um you don't have to deviate from the comic because of some you know Hollywood executive douchebag who's never read the comic. 00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:01.279 You know, you can make the case for uh you know keeping it accurate. 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:02.559 Yeah, yeah. 00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:09.200 And uh, you know, I think in terms of the creator own things, I think it's really important to have the creators involved. 00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:22.160 I mean, look, Sin City, Frank Miller code directs with Robert Rodriguez, I think it's the greatest on-screen adaptation from a comic because it shouldn't have worked, and it worked way better than expected. 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:28.640 But then, you know, Brian Lee O'Malley was super uh involved with with Edgar Wright making Scott Pilgrim, and look how that turned out. 00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:47.519 Yeah, and Kirk Kirkman being involved in Invincible is why that show is so absolutely fantastic, and you know, the comic is also um so I love to see creators being involved in what their adaptations are gonna look like. 00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:54.880 I had Chip and Matt on like a couple months ago, like two months ago, and we talked about how you know involved they are with sex criminals. 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:57.200 Because that's with Amazon, right? 00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:00.079 Yeah, and that's that's gonna be that's shooting right now. 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:01.279 They're shooting right now. 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:02.319 Yeah, right on. 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:04.559 And you know, that's awesome. 00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:10.079 And and Phillips is the I mean Brew Baker's the showrunner of Criminal, so I'm sure that's gonna be really good. 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:14.160 Like get the people that created the thing involved in the thing that they created. 00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:15.200 Yeah, yeah. 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.240 I wonder how much of that is because the creators push for it. 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:31.279 Like, I know I think that's been at least our experience is like I think we've have to be bold enough to kind of ask and say, you know, we want to be in this, we want to be producers, this is the non-negotiables. 00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:35.359 Um it feels like shows like The Walking Dead, you know. 00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:42.720 I know a lot of Walking Dead was purely because Kirtman was like so um adamant about like his position in it. 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:43.200 Yeah. 00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:48.319 Um and I wonder how much of that has has trickled down to all of us just saying, screw it. 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:52.880 You know, we just want if this is gonna happen, we have to be involved in some way. 00:26:58.640 --> 00:26:59.519 Oh, hello there. 00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:00.960 We'll get right back to the video. 00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:06.799 I want to let you know that I have a Patreon that supports both of my channels, Direct Edition and West Coast Avengers. 00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:09.920 For$5 a month, you can help contribute and support the channels. 00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:12.079 You get bonus videos from both channels. 00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:23.200 You get a chance to vote for a video that I record where I flip through a rare book, and every two months you can take part in a private sale of stuff from my personal collection, my inventory, and my travels. 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:27.359 Stuff that is not available anywhere else, but it goes to you first, my friends. 00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:28.880 The link is in the description below. 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:34.000 Direct Dave Engerinos, that's my Patreon, five dollars a month, and now back to the video.

00:27:37.440 --> 00:28:03.680 And I think I mean, look, I hope we're in a wild fucking timeline right now, but I hope that in comics and in movies, and you know, we can say music too, but I hope that people are starting to realize that they have more power over their creations and that enough pushback, Hollywood's gotta listen and and the comics industry has to listen too. 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:12.480 You know, I I'm very big into what's going on at DC right now, and it's because they're they're letting the inmates run the asylum, so to speak, you know. 00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:26.559 Yeah, and and with indie stuff, you guys are in full control uh uh of everything, but when grows to a size like True did, that's when you have to start yeah, voicing your opinions about how you want it to be represented outside of the pages. 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:29.039 Yeah, so I think that's really important. 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:34.799 Um so getting back to to Ghost Brawler, you're a completely physical guy. 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:37.119 You're doing pen, page, right? 00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:38.480 Um, is this blue line? 00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:45.279 Like, is are you doing this specially for you know the and then you're gonna recolor it when it comes out with image? 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:46.240 How's that gonna work? 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.440 Yeah, um, in this case, I mean it's a standard process. 00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:50.079 I always do. 00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:51.359 I'm always penciling by hand. 00:28:51.440 --> 00:29:10.240 In this case, I am penciling in blue, um, inking everything by hand, scanning everything in, and then basically doing a blue tone, um, some some specific like kind of spot colors here and there um for the bruiser, and then I'm just gonna take those exact same files and either I'm gonna color them or I'm thinking about bringing on a colorist for it. 00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:14.559 I'm not exactly sure yet, because coloring is like it's a it's it can be a lot. 00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:16.720 Uh like like with Chew. 00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:23.279 Uh with Chew, I had a color assistant and I would just do all the finishes, but even all the finishes took me an entire week to do. 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:29.359 So in hindsight, wow, like uh that was a whole year of my life I could have gotten back. 00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:31.680 Um, so I may bring on another colorist. 00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:36.319 I'm not entirely sure yet, but the process is is pretty straightforward for the most part. 00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:44.880 But the the point is the um the the bruiser edition is going to look very different than the than the the well, you know what? 00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:51.279 I I hate it when you buy something on Kickstarter for 50 bucks and then it's in the comic book store for$3.99 six months later. 00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:56.000 Like that's that that you know that that you you burn everyone who supports you. 00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:58.720 So we wanted to make something very unique. 00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:04.880 Uh and you know, hey, you you get this early, but you get it completely different, and then you know, color sells anyways. 00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:10.079 You know, this is this is gonna be towards you know, for fans and collectors and stuff like that. 00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:14.799 But like uh the regular edition is just gonna be a regular standard full cover, full color comic. 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:16.559 Yeah, I mean that was the goal, really. 00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:19.119 It's just just yeah, to make something completely unique. 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:25.359 I mean, every time we kind of put it out, uh they it needs to feel like its own kind of experience. 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:32.640 So like the bruiser edition, I mean, the honestly, like I may end up liking the black and blue edition more than I have. 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:37.839 I mean, we've I've only colored a couple pieces, uh, and it looks great, but like I'm kind of partial to the monotone. 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:41.839 Um, so I think both experiences are gonna be awesome, very, very unique. 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:56.319 But the cool stuff with the uh with the bruiser edition with the Kickstarter edition is because it's it's not gonna be a massive print run, uh, we get to screw around in ways that we probably couldn't on the on the direct market, uh, with lots of cool embellishments and special treatments. 00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:04.960 Like we're we have some pretty specific, like small print run, uh special things that we're gonna be doing that you couldn't you just couldn't do in a bigger run. 00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:06.079 So it should be cool. 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:16.640 You know, and I was gonna ask you, you know, I'm a I'm a big book nerd, you know, I love artist editions, I love you know, all of the different versions of the book I can get. 00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:29.359 So if this and I should say not that when this Kickstarter makes so much money and people really love the blue, you know, the blue tone edition, what's gonna happen? 00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:32.960 Are you guys gonna just have to do two versions when it's published with image? 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:43.440 Oh, you know, we we we have toyed with the idea of doing our own, you know, bruiser TP PP TPB, but we will probably, you know, keep that non-direct market. 00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:51.519 We'll probably, you know, have a you know, because because you know, full color sells and also the the great thing about image is their international reach. 00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:57.920 You know, they're gonna they're gonna get the full color comic into you know France and Italy and all that kind of stuff. 00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:05.200 But um, yeah, I I I I think we're gonna continue to play around with Kickstarter, and this might be the the format that works. 00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:10.480 Yeah, and we've been seeing more and more like um people kind of leverage

creators take. 00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:18.079 Like I I just saw yesterday that uh Daniel Warren Johnson is they're doing his uh his beta ray bill original artists from Marvel. 00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:20.079 I think yeah, it's Skybound printing them now. 00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:21.200 I forget who is who's doing it. 00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:25.359 It's done Dunbeer's doing it with Act Four, but I think it's it's done with Skybound. 00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:26.079 Right. 00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:34.240 But but being able to even do that kind of thing, it's like, okay, so you just took something you made over there and now you're repackaging it and doing a special version of it here. 00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:36.960 I think the Kickstarter thing is the exact same thing. 00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:51.039 So I mean, I it's it's just really cool that there's so many different avenues for uh creators like us to actually earn a living doing this stuff without having to kind of you know kill ourselves kill ourselves in the process all the time. 00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:56.480 Yeah, it's uh it's part of the distribution models that are changing, they're ever changing. 00:32:56.559 --> 00:33:04.160 Um me and Jim Rugg are probably gonna record a podcast about it because he's been making a list of so many different methods of distribution. 00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:13.839 And, you know, the thing is, and and what I look at at least trying to do with my podcast is like, yeah, you could release a Kickstarter, you could do it on your website, you could do it Zoop, whatever. 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:18.640 I'm gonna try and get at least in front of an audience that is aware of how to get it. 00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:29.279 And um, and that's you know, seeing what my job is out here is uh making people aware of cool shit, you know, cool books, cool movies, cool music, whatever it is. 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:45.039 Uh, but Kickstarter has been such a great way to grow not just your audience, but grow the amount of people that are aware that you have a book out and that you're gonna be at conventions and they can buy that book and then get it signed or whatever it is. 00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:46.880 Uh yeah, yeah. 00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:56.880 Kickstarter feels to me like um like you know, whenever I go to shows, I'm immediately going to like if you know Mike Mo Mike Mignola's over there, I'm gonna go hunt him down. 00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:02.799 He has a special edition sketchbook that's a limited, it's gonna be signed, it's gonna have a sketch, it's only for sale with the con. 00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:04.480 I feel like that's Kickstarter. 00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:08.079 Like Kickstarter is basically a good a digital version of that. 00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:11.840 Um, and that's the stuff I'm I'm a total geek over, man. 00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.280 Yeah, yeah, me too. 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:26.000 Uh like last year, or I guess it was last year, Mateo Scalera did the Kickstarter for his new book,

uh Fourth Father, and it was like, yeah, the TVP, uh, but there was an artist edition available too. 00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:27.360 Yeah, I bought that. 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:29.920 Yeah, we bought that too, yeah, totally. 00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:44.320 So it's it it is, you know, is uh all it used to be was comic stores, and then it was comic stores mixed with the internet, and then the internet became the worst place to talk about comics, and then it was back to comic stores, and now it's Kickstarter, it's everything. 00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:55.519 But uh did you when John, when you were coming up with this and then you know, sending it over to Rob and kind of pitching him like, here's what I want, did you have Kickstarter in mind to begin with? 00:34:55.679 --> 00:35:08.559 No, no, this is this was kind of like Rob's been talking about it and like wanting to experiment, and uh uh you know, I I uh yeah, I would have been happy to go straight to Image, but this this does reach a whole different audience. 00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:10.480 It's a neat, you know, experiment. 00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:14.480 Um, and it's you know it's it's kind of an audience that we've never touched before. 00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:16.559 So, you know, let's let's see if this works. 00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:31.599 But you know, like I said, I like image because you know, you got you got the direct market, you got full ownership, and then you know, they're great with uh, you know, foreign and digital, but you know, for for the hardcore collectors, we don't have something like that, and that's what Kickstarter is. 00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:32.639 Yeah, yeah. 00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:35.119 And that's a whole that's what's cool about images. 00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:43.920 Like, I mean, being able to go to them and say, you know, I'd like to experiment, you know, I'd like to like do something that maybe hasn't been done before. 00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:46.320 Like they were they were totally cool with it, you know. 00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:49.199 That's um that's that's special, you know. 00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:52.719 As a creator, I mean I know you're you're friends with guys like Jim of Food. 00:35:52.800 --> 00:36:05.519 Like Jim, Jim's a perfect example with this, like of a creator who is just able to kind of think outside of the box and leverage himself in so many different ways while kind of maintaining consistent thing. 00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:08.079 You know, we get to do that with Ghost Brawler. 00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:12.880 It's like it's gonna go over here and do this thing at Kickstarter, then it'll come back to Image, do this thing here. 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.679 It maybe we'll go back to Kickstarter later, who knows? 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:19.199 So it's cool to just have the leverage and the freedom to be able to do that. 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:25.599 Yeah, and that I guess, you know, not everybody's as fortunate to have what you guys have. 00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:30.400 Like you're an established creative team together and then independently. 00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:42.719 Um, but it is like once you have that one thing that people already can trust that they know your storytelling's great, then yeah, yeah, I'll take it on into your own hands. 00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:53.519 I mean, it's uh it's such a fractured thing, comics, and more so than ever, but it is also a giant community that is more together than ever. 00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:58.000 Yeah, so I don't know how those two things could be true, but they feel like they're both true. 00:36:58.480 --> 00:36:59.519 Yeah, I agree with that. 00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:00.880 Yeah, well, that's cool. 00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:19.599 One one of the things, I mean, really since 2020 in the lockdown, I've had so many stinking conversations with different different creators from all over the place who are all kind of problem solving, you know, and and the problem solving was always there, but I think COVID specifically shook up so many things that everyone was like, okay, what do we do now? 00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:20.079 What do we do? 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:21.280 Yeah, like what are you doing? 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:22.000 What are you doing? 00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:31.039 Like, I would just had so many calls and like people I'd never met before in the industry, um, who were all kind of thinking along the same lines and experimenting. 00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:34.079 And I think I think we're all better for it, you know. 00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:41.119 That's so many like experiments have already been done, so now we can see what worked and implement that into our own thing. 00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:41.760 It's cool. 00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:48.880 You guys really haven't, I mean, Rob and John, actually, I don't think I've seen you at a convention in the last five years, at least personally. 00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:51.280 I usually go to Emerald City and Heroes. 00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:55.840 Do you think you're gonna start uh doing a couple again once the the book's out? 00:37:56.320 --> 00:38:05.119 Yeah, I I really um like I I I I fell off during COVID and I was doing a lot of foreign shows because like as a writer, I don't really make a lot of money. 00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:11.760 So if I'm not gonna make money, make don't make money in India or South Africa rather than you know Detroit or you know, Bitcoin. 00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:12.559 Sure. 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:20.639 Um, but yeah, like I I'm I'm feeling the need to like get out there and press flesh and see American cities and all that kind of stuff. 00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:23.280 So yeah, I'm I'm definitely gonna you know get back into it. 00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:25.119 And shows tend to beget shows. 00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:28.159 You get you you go to one show and you get invited to to three more. 00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:41.679 So and I I got a kid who just went off to college, and I tell told my wife, like, why aren't I going out

once a month, you know, coming back with some money in my pocket and you know, getting to see a city, eat some uh you know, barbecue or you know, whatever the local cuisine is. 00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:44.239 Yeah, yeah, me too. 00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:47.599 I'm going to San Diego for the first time since like 2018. 00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:50.159 Oh wow, which is gonna be weird. 00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:55.920 Uh I mean, I went I went for like I think 12 years in a row and then I just got tired. 00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:59.280 Um so it's I'm actually very excited to go back next month. 00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:10.400 It's been it's been so long, but yeah, just like John said, I'm excited to kind of see people see people again and you know, uh shake hands and hang uh stay up entirely too late hanging out. 00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:11.280 Yeah, yeah. 00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:14.880 I mean that uh convention scene has definitely gotten a bit. 00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:22.960 I just was at Heroes this past weekend, and I mean the energy there, and and they said they broke an attendance record in their 44th year, which is amazing. 00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:25.599 Yeah, uh, and it was fantastic. 00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:32.559 You know, I got to see people that know the channel, I got to see people that I interviewed in the last year that I haven't seen physically in a while. 00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:49.039 Um, but it feels like the ones that skew towards being pure comics heroes, Baltimore, uh, you know, like the one in uh IC3, which is a newer one, you know, some of those ones are just the the energy there is amazing. 00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:55.840 People are excited to be reading comics and being around creators and fellow collectors and readers and stuff. 00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:59.760 Well, so um so what else? 00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:02.239 Oh, John, I did want to ask you something. 00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:10.960 Uh, because he recently we really recently lost Sam Keith, and you had worked with Sam on uh aliens uh in human condition. 00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:14.800 And I just you know, if there's anything you'd you know, like you want to share memory. 00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:21.840 I worked with him on a uh uh book called Eleanor and the Egret that we created for uh for Aftershock. 00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:24.719 Wow, and it was sorry, I forgot that one. 00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:25.760 Yeah, that's all right. 00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:36.159 I mean, it wasn't a big seller, but it was a it was us trying to like do a Miyazaki movie, and it was you know, Sam Sam usually goes really dark, and we were you know just trying something different. 00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:38.320 But yeah, Sam was a good friend. 00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:46.159 Um uh I'd known about this for a while, and we were, you know, he didn't didn't want people knowing about it. 00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:52.159 Um and it was one of those things where the doctor's like, hey man, this is a degenerative disease. 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:54.639 It this isn't necessarily a death sentence. 00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:56.719 You could live a long, full, happy life. 00:40:56.960 --> 00:40:58.480 Spoiler alert, he did not. 00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:02.000 Like it could it could come on you fast or it could take forever. 00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:06.719 Sam Sam got you know the worst of it, but like he was uh he was just the sweetest guy. 00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:08.400 Like uh did you ever meet him? 00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:09.440 Uh once. 00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:16.559 And I have a lot of friends that worked with him, Alex Pardy and John Wayshack, uh, or two of them, and uh everybody said the same thing about him as well. 00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:20.800 Yeah, just a really like gentle soul, like never had anything bad to say. 00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:25.920 You know, he was he was a kook, you know, he did not think of things the way we think of things. 00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:36.079 Like definitely we talk about story, or you know, when we'd work, he'd he'd be more um uh concerned about a mood or a metaphor than the actual story. 00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:44.000 And it's like uh he he almost kind of lived in like a almost like a dream world with his stuff, which is yeah, that that's pretty appropriate for the Max. 00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:45.679 Yeah, yeah. 00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:50.719 He was a visionary, but also one that, right, was not in the same dimension as us. 00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:54.639 Yeah, and you know, he he would just call himself a dumb cartoonist if you if you asked him. 00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:57.840 He never you know thought of himself as a you know fine artist or anything like that. 00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:05.840 And and I don't think uh I don't think he understood uh kind of how revolutionary he was and how like how much his stuff touched people. 00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:07.679 He didn't like believe it. 00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:12.960 Yeah, if only he could see the tributes that poured when you know when when he left us. 00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:31.920 I mean, I was seeing musicians and and people in Hollywood talk about him, and I I forget like I already knew the Max from the comic, so the MTV show was just like you know, I was so into it, and there's so many people that didn't, and they saw the MTV show, and that was what uh really and and think about the time. 00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:40.719 It was all you know, it was all spawn and savage dragon and youngblood, and like here was this thing that was just you know completely bat shit and you know different. 00:42:40.880 --> 00:42:43.039 Uh yeah, yeah. 00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:50.159 So I just you know, I wanted to ask about him because you know it's good to get these stories uh from people on the record. 00:42:50.320 --> 00:43:06.079 I mean, I had Kelly Jones on last year and we talked about him a bit, and you know, they grew up together, and uh, you know, the Kelly's success on Batman is only I mean, it's because he's an amazing artist,

but Sam was like, I can't do these covers. 00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:08.719 And then he's like, Kelly, you do them. 00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:10.800 Yeah, that sounds like Sam. 00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:13.280 You know, he he had me on. 00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:18.239 Um I I I'm credited early on in uh Batman the Max. 00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:29.760 And uh he he Sam needed certain people to hold his hand at at different times, and I did, but once once we got that book started, I'm like, Sam, the max is you, man. 00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:32.079 I'm not I'm not gonna do this. 00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:35.280 And and once once we were on a stable path, I walked away. 00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:40.239 Just like, I don't want to be co-writing the I don't want to be co-anything the max with you. 00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:47.519 This has to be you, and uh uh it I I don't think the project would have happened had I not helped get it going. 00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:49.280 It's got Doombeer as well. 00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:55.599 Um, but then you know I also knew to walk away because it had to be it had to be a Sam Keith, you know, solo thing. 00:43:57.599 --> 00:43:59.760 Um so so getting back. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:04.159 to Ghost Brawler uh and and the Kickstarter. 00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:07.760 Uh are we gonna are you gonna I don't know if I asked this. 00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:09.519 Is it gonna be a hardcover, soft cover? 00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:11.440 We're gonna have options for both. 00:44:11.920 --> 00:47:05.119 Yeah, we we have a we have a uh an economy option like that was really important to us like you know in in times like these like the people who don't have deep pockets we want you to be able to you know we we don't want this to be a money grab and you know we're not doing this to get rich we're doing this to fund art and coloring so we can you know do this whole thing but yeah we've got a we've got the featherweight edition which is uh um uh you know just the you know standard um what perfect bound Rob yeah it's gonna be perfect bound uh soft cover and what are we looking at 72 80 pages do we 70 72 72 I mean that could potentially go up but 72 right now yeah um we've got the the heavyweight edition which is gonna be uh like a you know a foil enhancement people love you know like you know oh yeah love the the the fancy stuff uh the champion edition which is the hardcover um and then uh the goat which is gonna be like die cut it's gonna be different size it's gonna have like uh it's like that that's for that's for the whales that's for the people who really want to support us and yeah how many how many are of those are we doing Rob uh we're still talking about it will be limited um very limited I would say between 100 to 200 copies uh total got my intention with that one yeah well that one's gonna be the special one because that one is um that's the one I'm I'm actually printing there's a local printer I work with for a lot of my sketchbooks and stuff like that and he's

a giant comic geek um and loves loves making I'm his favorite client because I just I bring in the cool stuff uh that he does in between doing like ballet recital you know programs and things like that um so basically I'm printing this stuff with him we're doing all the bells and whistles my handprints are gonna be all over it um yeah die cuts we're looking at some embossing maybe some foil effects uh and it's gonna be a specific format that is only going to be for this this version of the book that's different than all the others um so that's the pimped out awesome awesome version of it I'm excited about but you know if you're not flush there's also you know an affordable version all the way up to you know sell us a kidney right right uh it's funny you call it the goat edition I think about that often like you know that that term has been thrown around more so in the last 10 years but we all know like if you're a student of history just American history sports history greatest of all time is Muhammad Ali I mean the man coined himself that nobody else is allowed to after that I mean uh so I love that it's called the goat edition for for the uh for the people that understand what that really means yeah yeah and then you know the featherweight's a little bit of you know a little psychology in there oh you're buying the the cheapo baby edition yeah but he could still kick your ass because he's 110 pounds and punches like he's 270 pounds. 00:47:05.599 --> 00:48:50.000 Yep you know I I if this was like the era of like celebrity deathmatch it would be funny to have done like an animated promo of the two of you boxing for the Kickstarter oh believe me they've they've come up with some stupid ideas and we're just like nope not not gonna happen not gonna happen yeah there's there's been a quite a quite a few involving boxing rings and other things like no we're not we're not doing that sorry no fair enough fair enough I mean it's it's it it's just a marketing idea um hey uh Rob can you share screens are you you comfortable showing the thing we got today what did we oh uh do we want to spoil that today I mean it's gonna come out it's gonna come out next week the let me see the episode find this thing you guys you guys talk I'll see you if I can find that okay all right um well yeah I mean funny we're we're we're leaning into the true stuff and we're you know just trying to make this as fun as possible uh and and we we got this today from Rob's buddy who's a designer Bert what's Bert's last name Bert Durand Bert Durand Durand yeah so this is gonna be our one of our premium prints um we're gonna pimp this thing out uh with some nice embellishments some special paper uh I may do a couple different variants of it like we're gonna have some prints that are um standard comic size but this one in particular I'm really kind of leaning toward doing like 11 by 17 poster so still playing around with it that's great like one of the old fight posters and it'd be cool if you were able to do it on a paper that uh that kind of feels like it's an older stock paper and feels like that but that's awesome. 00:48:50.159 --> 00:49:06.639 Does that mean there's a possibility that this matchup is going to happen in a book no but there is some you know like I said we got we got a a chew related surprise down the line as a stretch goal and uh uh you're gonna love it. 00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:27.920 Awesome awesome that's great and uh you know and I hope that things do move forward pretty quickly with you know getting something on screen for for chew obviously you know there's just there's some elements of it that I'm like I I I didn't need it but knowing that it's headed that way like I kind of want to see it. 00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:44.480 Um so do we yeah yeah you know that the the worst thing I I I my my morbid sense of humor I I make the point that how long Preacher took and then poor Steve Dylan you know dropped dead just about the time it you know just after it premiered and I I feel like that's gonna be me. 00:49:44.639 --> 00:50:10.320 Uh you know it's taken so damn long well don't say that no yeah you're gonna be fine just uh I mean Dylan from what I understand you know man drank like a horse uh Dylan Dylan lived hard yes yeah yeah like a lot of the guys from that era and the 2000 AD scene I'm glad that Simon is is completely sober now because you know who knows how long he would have lasted if he didn't get sober. 00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:40.400 Oh yeah there are stories about him as a wild man that's for sure um so before we get going any last things you want to give the audience information about Ghost Brawler or anything else that uh we can share uh I mean the good by the time this goes live it's it's already rolling um so I'm assuming you'll have some links to the whole thing yes links will all be in the description we you're already at$150,000 but I'll help get to 200 000. 00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:43.440 One of the add-ons is a trading card set. 00:50:43.679 --> 00:53:15.920 Oh yeah oh nice which is gonna be fun you know sports sports you know you know the various boxers but also you know uh some special guest stars sweet one of whom you just saw yeah I'm a big fan of like the old school like Wizard Wizard used to do these uh these foil cards that kind of went with every issue and like yeah I want I want to do that so so that's one of the things we're that's one of the the the things we're playing with and then you got to do creator cards see this is where you can do you can do two creator cards both boxing gloves oh uh have you thought about a uh an add-on like maybe 10 signed and uh remarked boxing gloves uh you know shipping would be a pain you know we we we gotta we gotta keep it practical you know uh that that's why prints are great bookmarks stickers things that are flat right flat things yeah right well look like the post office is just crazy right now I've been uh I've been uh we're getting ready to move

so I've been selling a lot of stuff on eBay and uh oh man like you know every every time someone comes up with an idea like that I just think about oh my god shipping cost shipping cost now I mean we're saying that now but like 15 days into the campaign I mean if it's doing really well I could go get some boxing gloves pretty quick yeah yeah just saying we'll we'll cross that bridge but nothing planned at the moment I will say this if you guys are at a convention that I'm going to be going to I'm bringing a boxing glove and getting it signed by both of you all right so fair enough all right well John and Rob the campaign for Ghost Brawler Bruiser Edition is up right now you can find the links in the description below and all over the place wherever you see this interview you will be able to access that Kickstarter uh gentlemen I appreciate your time I am excited for this book and as well as the future of whatever chew takes shape uh thank you so much for being here yeah thanks for having us thanks uh for watching everybody or listening whatever big thanks to both Rob and John uh it was a very spirited chat and I really really really cannot wait to get this book into my hands and then see what it looks like uh eventually with color but you know me I'm I love seeing the bare bones almost versions of things now this isn't an artist edition but it is going to be uh not colored it's gonna be blue and white and I guess black lines and that's about it. 00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:22.400 Thank you for being here this week and I hope you watched last week with Nick Dragata and I hope that you watched the week before with Jim Rugg. 00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:29.840 We've got some great guests coming up Jeff Darrell, Abby Denson and a couple others that I will say when the time is right. 00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:37.760 If you are new to the podcast I'd ask you just to subscribe on whatever platform you listen to podcasts on or watch podcasts on. 00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:43.599 If you aren't new here but you haven't reviewed the podcast on Apple or Spotify that would be much appreciated. 00:53:43.679 --> 00:54:14.559 And then if you're just watching on YouTube a nice little thumbs up and a comment down below uh really is uh helpful to growing this podcast and bringing it out to more people and if you want to do the best thing you can back the book on Kickstarter and you can join my Patreon which five bucks a month gets you at least three videos that are bonus to this channel and West Coast Avengers and um every two months I do an exclusive sale on there which is stuff from my inventory and my personal collection that's not available to the general public. 00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:21.599 You can visit direct edition on direct editionpodcast dot com which is part of the West Coast Avengers website. 00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:39.519 I'm on the social medias uh TikTok threads Instagram Facebook yeah I don't really like social media but I'm there anyway my name is Dave you're not Dave unless you are thank you for being here for direct edition and I'll see you on the next episode