บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Finding Your Moxie: Self-Trust, Fear & Women's Leadership with Nicole Donnelly

like, what if we shifted to see those parts as also serving us and like, what if we serve them instead of trying to like push them away and label them as bad? What if they're just there and they have a purpose? Lisa McGrath: I think I I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think that the the perspective for each person will be different in how they view that. And being so my family is half Caribbean, but a lot of them practice Hindu. So I've got like Ganesh on my arm in like the tribal leaves. Yeah. Yeah. So Nicole Donnelly: my gosh, amazing. Who knew? Yeah, love it. Lisa McGrath: but I think what that's about is it's about if you provide offerings to both sides, then you satisfy them where they don't inhibit you. Nicole Donnelly: Yep. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: Right. So it's like because if you think about it, there's an aboriginal story that talks about the dark wolf and the white wolf. Right. So it's and then it the white wolf is filled with joy and love and happiness and contentment. And the bad wolf is filled with shame and anger and rage. And it's and they always say, What wolf do you feed is the wolf that will persevere. Right. Whereas they're saying we respect that both exist and we don't want we don't want any trouble. From either what we want good things, but we also want to let the bad things know that we see them and we acknowledge them and we don't want them to hurt. Right. It's kind of how Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: I would take that. But I like your interpretation too, where you're just like, you know, it's because everybody has a shadow side. Everybody has that gross, ugly side that they're capable of saying and doing some really horrible crap. And, you know, when you, when you ex it when you accept that side of you and say that is a part of me but when do I when does that side become relevant? So it's kind of like, you know, perfect example because I mean being a female yourself and Michael can understand this too, but when you're in what's Nicole Donnelly: Because he's a female too. Lisa McGrath: that? Michael: Ha ha ha. Lisa McGrath: No. No, but when you when Nicole Donnelly: Anyway, go ahead. Lisa McGrath: you're in a position where you've people pleased for a long time, that is your white wolf, but it's feeding your dark wolf because you're trying to avoid conflict by not creating conflict, but then creating internal conflict. Right. So when you're when you feed your dark wolf the right things to say, we're not doing this anymore, and you start to put in those boundaries. That's part of your shadow side saying no. And people, Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: people don't like that. They're like, well, where's the person that's helpful? And where's the person? Well, this the dragon was sleeping, it wasn't dead. So you've took to the point where I'm done giving, and that's where we're at. This is what it's gonna be, right? So that's something that I think all of us have gone through, especially when you're a

volunteer, especially when you're someone who has a generous and giving heart. People will just want, want, want, want and want for nothing. And then when you finally put your foot down, all of a sudden it's like this big to do. And they're like, How dare you victimize me? And you're like, But that's a side where it's the shadow side that's putting the boundary and saying, We're done. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, it's Lisa McGrath: Yeah. Nicole Donnelly: true. the other thing is too, is like when you're people pleasing all the time, there's like this resentment that builds up. You mentioned before, it's like, it's not like there's a cost. There's a cost to the people pleasing if it's not aligned with what you really want to give. And if you feel like you're being forced to do it or it's not in your Lisa McGrath: Mm. Nicole Donnelly: natural, then there's going to be that dark side of it where, yeah. Lisa McGrath: But I think a lot of people that are people pleasy are just avoiding of conflict. But you have to remember that there's two different aspects to people pleasing, right? There's people pleasing where you're kind of like the yes man. And I see that a lot in trades. A lot of guys that are like, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. But really in the back of their head, they're like, fuck, I don't want to do this. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: Right. And then and then, you know, and then you've got the people that are like, I'll get to it when I get to it. Which is basically not saying no, but not saying yes. It's like you might want something now, but that's just not on the docket. That's that's a a yin a yin and yang response, right? Because you're Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: not really, you're not being rude. You're just being honest. You're like, I'll get to it when I get to it. And then there's the other side of that where you have somebody in your life like your partner, children, best friends, parents, where you genuinely want to give it, fills your cup to give to them. But then there are people inside of that where there's friends and family and parents that will take, take, take, take, take until you're like, I can't do this anymore. Because then what Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: happens is when we do things repetitively for people, it becomes an expectation. And that's where it gets dangerous. And that's where people pleasers get pissed off. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Michael: You get people please. You just have to be honest about it first. Right? Like Lisa McGrath: And honest with yourself. Michael: w well, that's what I mean. That's what I mean. I mean it's it's really hard for people to be truly honest about who they are to others, right? I mean, there's always a modicum of something hidden, whether that be one percent, ten percent, or ninety percent. There's always something hidden. I don't think anybody on the face of the planet is a hundred percent honest with another individual ever. Like a hundred percent. A hundred percent? I don't think so. Nicole Donnelly: that's such a yeah. Yeah. Michael: 'Cause we all have evil thoughts, we all will have all have awful thoughts, and I guarantee you you do not share that with everyone or anyone sometimes. Lisa McGrath: Do we call them intrusive thoughts? Nicole Donnelly: It's true. I mean, if we were fully honest with each other, people would be pretty upset. It's Michael: No one would like anybody. Lisa McGrath: I don't know, I Nicole Donnelly: true. Lisa McGrath: mean, I tend to make my significance eye twitch daily and I'm pretty honest with him. You know that, Michael. You know that. Michael: Pretty honest, pretty honest. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, that's true. I mean, Michael: Yeah. Nicole Donnelly: I'm pretty honest with my husband, too. I will tell him straight up and he does the same and it works out great. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: no, no. Like, I mean, like, he'll say something, and like we both do it. I got him to be more forward because before he would never say something like this, and now he does say it. Matter of fact, he said it to me this morning, which was great. But like he'll say something that is completely off the cuff and I do not care for, and I'll be like, and I'll just get quiet and he'll look at me because I'm very opinionated and he'll be like, nothing from the peanut gallery. I'm like, no, I just killed you in my head three times. Nicole Donnelly: Ha ha. Lisa McGrath: And he's like, wow. And so he actually he actually said that to me this morning. I don't remember what I said, but it was really funny. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, I wonder what animal you were in another life, Lisa. I'm curious about this. What animal were you? Lisa McGrath: Ha ha. Michael: Snake. Nicole Donnelly: I think you would have been, sheesh, something really like, definitely a predator. You give off predator vibes, yeah, yeah. Lisa McGrath: Apex Predator. God. Michael, are you hearing this? Michael: Finally some truth in this podcast. Nicole Donnelly: Michael, Michael, don't know if Michael, Michael's not giving predator vibes. Michael seems like he would be, Lisa McGrath: Bunny? Michael: That'll be a first. Nicole Donnelly: Maybe like, I don't know, like a, like a golden retriever. Lisa McGrath: if if Red only heard that would she laugh? Michael: She'd be like, not even close. If it was a if it was Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, but Lisa, you're like you. Michael: a golden retriever who has very high prey instinct, maybe. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, okay, I could be wrong. Lisa McGrath: Yeah, more like a pointer. More like a pointer. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. But a dog, yeah, I would say I'm I'm I'm loyal like a dog for sure. Yeah. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, that's the vibe you give off. And Lisa, you seem you're like an eagle. I feel like you're perched high and you just kind of. Lisa McGrath: So that's actually funny that you say that because when I went to an Aboriginal naming ceremony, Eagle, Bear, and Wolf came back for my naming ceremony. Nicole

Donnelly: Why didn't tell me about the aboriginal naming ceremony? That's so fascinating. Lisa McGrath: it it's you know what, it's a really cool thing. So I've got a lot of friends that are indigenous and I love all of them. And like, actually, I've got like the best fry bread recipe out of it. So yay me. Nicole Donnelly: Ha ha. Lisa McGrath: So I make really good fry bread because of all the wonderful Aboriginal people that have come into my life. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: but the naming ceremony happened quite a long time ago. Lots of drums. It there's incense, there's or sorry, not incense, there's sage, there's sweet grass, they have They have a blend. So tobacco, cedar, sweetgrass, and sage are usually what they burn in in tribal ceremonies. And I didn't get an official name. I had the, I had the the naming elders come up to me and say, These are the animals that sit with you in your totem. So and I was like, and they're like, Eagle sits high. And I was like, which means? And they said, That's your most of your character is eagle. And they're like, You have bear because you have strong Nicole Donnelly: I knew it. Lisa McGrath: protection. And mothering instincts, and then wolf is because there are moments where you prefer to be in solitary but have no problem being in a pack. And I was like, Nicole Donnelly: you Lisa McGrath: interesting. Now they said it kind of like that. That was not verbatim by any stretch, but it was, it was really like I don't know how to describe it. Like it just, it's something different. Like if you're a spiritual person, it's really enlightening, it's really. Like it's it's very emotionally driven because the drums just make all your hair stand up. And like the chants make your hair stand up because it's just like it's you feel it really deeply because of how spiritual it is and how sacred it is. So I loved it. I'm not gonna lie. Like I I really enjoy sp doing traditional ceremonies with Aboriginals. the next thing I gotta do is I gotta do a sweat at some point. Cause I've been told you gotta do a sweat. Michael, you should do a sweat. Nicole Donnelly: So I Michael: I I sweat all the time. Nicole Donnelly: just feel like there's something so primal about it. like, I love that. what is the, okay, what are the, is this sweat? I don't know much about the sweat. Is this like similar to like what you would get out of a sauna experience? Like what is the sweat? Lisa McGrath: More than that. So it is the there it's all spiritual experiences. So basically what happens is you you basically sweat for an amount of time. I believe it's for like I don't quote me, but I want to say anywhere from like one to three days where you do an actual sweat inside of a teepee. Yeah, it's a while. And you have a spiritual awakening or vision when you do a sweat. And you can't, as a woman, you cannot be on your period at all. Nicole Donnelly: Wow, that would Lisa McGrath: Mm-hmm. Nicole Donnelly: be a really amazing experience. I

want to have a spiritual awakening. Michael: I mean I just I've done that with mushrooms and peyote. Does that count? Lisa McGrath: Thank you, Michael. Michael: Tell you you go to different universes, it's like it's kind of crazy. I've I have seen Nicole Donnelly: What universities have you gone to? Mushrooms, Michael, tell us. Michael: I have seen everything. So I used to do resets about every thirty days. so when I was going through my creative rebuilding of my life, because I left construction into this, and so it's about every thirty days I would just go on a wild trip, come back with all these ideas. It's kind of like a rewiring for your brain. not that I'm promoting drug use, but obviously Lisa McGrath: I thought you were talking about Chaga like line and like lines main, right? Michael: No, no no no psilocybin, Nicole Donnelly: you Michael: psilocybin, yeah. Lisa McGrath: I know. Michael: Sillycybin, yeah, sometimes. Lisa McGrath: Were you microdosing or was it like a mega dose all at once? Michael: No no no, this is this is yeah, you're you're out. Yeah, you're gone. Lisa McGrath: You're on You're on a journey. Michael: You're on a journey. Yeah. Yeah. You never know where you're gonna end up. So you I you gotta have to write my mindset. Nicole Donnelly: I gotta say, I've never done, I've Lisa McGrath: You and your spirit guide are walking. Nicole Donnelly: never done psilocybin. I'm so curious. Yeah. Michael: It's interesting. Yeah, it's it's a rewiring. So for about 30 days, your level of focus is really, really high. That's why people, a lot of people go into microdosing because you don't get that trip, Nicole Donnelly: Interesting. Michael: but you still get that focus. And there's a lot of stuff that you know has been studied by under science, right? About the rewiring through the mycelium in the brain and or my mice miceel, I think. so it's actually like the protection around the actual nerve endings in your brain and stuff. So it's it's really, really good for you. Nicole Donnelly: So are there any dark sides to this? Michael: be you have to have a good mental fortitude, be in the right mental like emotional state. So like I don't have really tipping points of emotional states anymore. I've kind of managed to deal with that over time. So Nicole Donnelly: Wow. Michael: that's why my Lisa McGrath: Like. Michael: my my spirit animal will be more like like a tardigrade, like a water bear. Which is just like I a tardigrade. A water bear, you've never heard of the they are fantastic. Yep, they are fantastic. Nicole Donnelly: A Tarder grade? What's a Tarder? I've never heard of a water bear. Where are water bears from? Lisa McGrath: Yeah, yeah, water bears. Michael: They're microscopic little tiny, tiny, tiny things. Nicole Donnelly: Really? Michael: Yep. Yep. Yep. Mostly solitary. So Nicole Donnelly: Okay. I never thought I would come on Devil's Advocate Trades and learn about microbears. Water bears. Little water bears. Michael: So a water a water bearer tardigrade is basically like super high resilient. if things get hostile, they actually go into hibernation. and really, really, really tiny. So and so their physical side has nothing to do with being allowed presence, which is kinda like me. I don't have a loud presence. and just slow and steady. Just just keep on going, keep on going. So I'm the type of person who stays up for days if I need to to just get what needs be done. Lisa McGrath: So let me tell you what happened here. Okay, Nicole. So what happened Nicole Donnelly: What happened? Lisa McGrath: here on Devil's Advocate Trades Edition is that you unlocked his sleeper mode for his ADHD, and now he is a fountain of information in regards Nicole Donnelly: you Lisa McGrath: to sleeper bears or water bears. So that's I understand, but that's not a topic that comes up often, Michael. Michael: no, no, I've studied them before. They are fantastic animals. I actually watch one on TikTok that they they just sit there. Lisa McGrath: So we engaged Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: your sleeper agent that was like, wait a minute. We're gonna Nicole Donnelly: you Lisa McGrath: educate today. Michael: W not everybody does this where you just like, hey, like find out more, go research, alt tab, all tab, alt tab, click, click, click, click. Lisa McGrath: No, I love it. I love it. But this is where on Devil's Advocate goes Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. I was just thinking like, you find, was this water bear something that came to you while you were tripping out on mushrooms? But no, it's a tiny eight-legged animal. Wow. Lisa McGrath: No, he d yeah. That's why I say that. So majority of trades are ADHD. like on Nicole Donnelly: Yes. Lisa McGrath: like an ADHD is a spectrum. So there the majority of them are ADHD. So that's why I always bug my ADHD, you know, brethren and say, Nicole Donnelly: Mmm. Lisa McGrath: just unlocked your ADHD sleeper agent there and all of a sudden I got a whole bunch of knowledge on a topic that I never thought I'd know. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: So they'll all identify with that and probably laugh. Michael: So Nicole, what's what's what's your spirit animal then, Nicole, if you had to describe it? 'Cause we've got Lisa. Nicole Donnelly: I think I'm a my spirit animal is definitely a horse. Michael: Worse. Lisa McGrath: Okay, why horse? Nicole Donnelly: I love well, well, horses, I don't know if you know this, but they're incredibly social. And they're like the longest living like they've learned like the herd mentality of the horses there that that I think I love so much. I resonate with that because I love to be in connection and community with people. And There's just something so like moxie about horses, you know? They're like, I don't know, they're strong and powerful. And when they gallop, they look so regal and yet they also carry people, you know? they're, I don't know, that's what I, you know? So I feel like. That's why I like identify with

horses is because I love to be in community, helping people and you know, running around in the open fields racing as fast as I can. I don't know. I'm just making shit up you guys. Michael: No, no, I think Lisa McGrath: Yeah. Michael: that works. I think it's like if you look at this, there's a key word, there's a key word in there where you mentioned Moxie. So Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: I know Michael: how does somebody learn to unlock and say hello to their moxie? Lisa McGrath: Michael, you're just ten Nicole Donnelly: you Lisa McGrath: for ten today. Michael: The caffeine is working! It's working. I don't know what day of the week it is and who I'm talking to, but Nicole Donnelly: You got it. You know what you got to do? You got to take mushrooms and you've got to do a sweat and you need to go to what you know, a indigenous naming ceremony and you need to go to Bali and Michael: There you go. Nicole Donnelly: go surfing and do like when I was in Bali, I did several things for the first time I've never done sound meditation, which was freaking amazing Lisa McGrath: Mm-hmm. Nicole Donnelly: with the with the the gongs and the bowls. You guys, that shit is real. I did that for an hour and I felt like it was 10 times better than the massage. The vibrations, yes. Lisa McGrath: Frequency. Most of us are based off frequency. Nicole Donnelly: Yes, and so the chakras, it's amazing. Through the sound, you find out which of your chakras are out of balance. And it was so true for me. My two chakras that were like, very clearly vibrating more than the rest were like my third eye and my root system. And I was like, that makes so much sense. So the sound meditation, that stuff, that was amazing. The other thing I did while I was in Bali that was so cool is numerology. Have you guys ever done numerology before? Michael: Yeah, yeah. Lisa McGrath: yeah, I do numerology. So I have a background in numerology. I've been taught how to do astrology by a an astrologist that's been doing it for fifty years. She kind of passed the torch to me. I'm also a Reiki master. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Wow. Yeah, see, that stuff is crazy. I did this numerology session while I was there, and I was like, this is too real. I couldn't believe how accurate it was. But then they say that there's this Pygmalion effect where it's just like, know, the Pygmalion effect, if you guys heard of this, like someone's, basically it applies to you. It could apply to anyone. whatever they say to you, whatever the neurologist is like, yeah, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's true. Lisa McGrath: Numerology you have to be careful with. You have to take it with a grain of salt. Same with astrology. If people are talking all about Western and Chinese astrology, you have to be careful with that because astrology is actually designed by stars and planets. It's not designed by all of the other things that we talk about. So if you really delve into it properly, like you can't tell me that, like way back when in Greece, they were like, that's Sagittarius. Like that's not what they were doing. They were reading planets and stars. And paying attention to the days, how long the days are, how long the sun's up, when the moon comes out, the moon was the mother, was the woman was emotion, right? The sun was, you know, action oriented and focus and drive. So that's why you worked in the day and slept at night. so they looked at all of those things. And if you ever get a chance, have you ever been to Mexico? Have you ever been to the Mayan Riviera? Okay. So if you ever go to pron correct pronunciation is Riviera Maya. And if you ever go there, then go to Tulum and do the tour of Tulum. The tour guides there will give you a story and it is so similar and helps you understand how an actual calendar, like their Mayan calendar works and that it actually makes more sense than what people would think. People are like, it's just a cool story. No, it's history. And it is very it is very driven and based upon how people lived in that in that time of work during the day and night, then there was no middle class. It was you were poor or rich. That was it. Like and they tell you these really cool stories about the the runes and how things came in and how exports and and imports came into dock and port and who controlled what. And it was it's actually a really cool story. So if you I'm sure we could Google it, but it's so much more fun to go down there and learn it at the Tillum Place. Nicole Donnelly: Now I feel inspired to go to Tulum. Michael: Might as well enjoy the sun and the food. Lisa McGrath: my god, we're we're headed there. So my kids and I are taking off on the on in sometime in December with my mom, and we're gonna take my daughter for her sweet 16 birthday. That's where she wants to go. I know, so Nicole Donnelly: Nice. Very nice. Lisa McGrath: we're gonna go back and I'm I'm gonna take my daughter to the to the Tulum ruins. Nicole Donnelly: Cool. Lisa McGrath: Yeah. It's the it's some of the places that are out there are incredibly spiritual. So In light of not making this completely spiritual, although it tells me that you're Nicole Donnelly: you Lisa McGrath: on a journey right now, which is super cool, but Michael's like, listen, this is Devil's Advocate Trades Edition. What the hell's going on? Michael: No, no, no, no, no. Like l this is trades are not just about doing the work and the bureaucracy and everything else, but these are the conversations that people have when they're on their break, when they're here talking with their friends, which we've talked about with politics Lisa McGrath: You got it. Nicole Donnelly: Well, everyone talks about their spirit Michael: recently and all that stuff. Yep. Nicole Donnelly: animals and what their horoscope is Lisa McGrath: That's right. I let everyone know. Michael: I think that's the first time I've ever had that conversation. Nicole Donnelly: telling them they need to do this week so that

they can meet the love of their life and all those things. Lisa McGrath: Yeah. Like how they have anal glycoma? Michael: Maybe. Nicole Donnelly: What the heck is anal glaucoma? Lisa McGrath: I don't see my ass coming to work today. Michael: Ha Lisa McGrath: Ha ha ha. Michael: I was like, I can't believe you actually said that. Nicole Donnelly: I gotta be honest, I didn't think I was gonna come on a podcast today and be talking about 8 o'clock. Michael: Well, now you can check that off of the life experience stuff and that's it. It's done. Lisa McGrath: Right. Bucketless check. Nicole Donnelly: Let's see what else have we talked about today. Jeez, man, it's crazy. Lisa McGrath: you thought it. You said it. And so yeah. Moving on. Michael: So is that what drove you out to Bali? Like Bali was part of like one of those seeking things, or was it just was it for the experience? Was it to learn something, take away something, or just to get away? Nicole Donnelly: You know, yeah, it was so cool. So we, my husband, okay, my husband works for Microsoft and he won this platinum club award. So literally the company flew us to Bali and Michael: Nice. Nicole Donnelly: we were there Lisa McGrath: Nice. Nicole Donnelly: with like, I don't know, all the other like Microsoft platinum clubbers from around the world. So I'd like to say I was there going on a spiritual journey, but no, I Michael: Ha Nicole Donnelly: was just going there on the corporate. The corporate jack. Lisa McGrath: But how cool is that though, Nicole? Because you went there for a business aspect, but it turned into a very spiritually healing aspect for you. Nicole Donnelly: it was so spiritually healing. I'm telling you guys, I'm running, I'm trying to build a startup right now. I've been trying to build the startup for a year and I'm in what you call the trough of sorrow. I don't know if you, if you follow the startup Michael: Yeah. Nicole Donnelly: world, I am in the full blown trough of sorrow right now and it is sorrowful. And so when I went to Bali, I was just like at a point where I was like, I need, I need rest. I need so much rest. My nervous system is just shot. And it was very ironic because when you're in the trough of sorrow in a startup business, you're just trying to get people to understand your vision and buy your vision and you're building something from nothing. it's almost like new category that you're creating. And so selling is hard as shit. It's hard. It is like eating glass. So I go to Bali and I'm literally with hundreds of world-class salespeople. who are making millions and millions of dollars for Microsoft. And I'm just sitting there like, this is great. Yeah, this is great. I need some sound meditation right now. I need a massage. yeah, that's that. was great. It was amazing. I'm not complaining about it at all. It was wonderful. Lisa McGrath: No, but you know what though? I think it's a good thing to point out is that a lot of entrepreneurs go through that because you are Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: starting something from nothing. Michael and I are both entrepreneurs. We get that. We've been Nicole Donnelly: you know. Lisa McGrath: there. But not only that, but I think where people, and this is something that I talk about really openly on my on on well, when it was just my podcast, and then I twisted Michael's arm to come on with me, be my co-host, which actually worked out really well in the long run. But beforehand, I talked a lot about So I I had a critical illness a few years back. And it's what forced me to slow down and take time to to rest and recuperate. Because a lot of us entrepreneurs don't know when to do that. We just go, go, Nicole Donnelly: you Lisa McGrath: go, go, go, go, because that's what it is. Are you hungry enough? Are you hungry enough? Are you hungry enough? Right. And and so it's just it's non-stop because you know that if you stop, you're not making money. So you keep going. And what we've what we fail to miss is that. We are not eating properly. We are not sleeping properly. We are not doing all of the things that our body needs to nourish to continue to do that. Especially when you're I mean, Michael's really bad for it, but you know, it it is what it is. I'm a single mom. So as a mother with Nicole Donnelly: my gosh, single mom and running a business. Lisa, you're a rock star. Like, that's amazing. You Lisa McGrath: Thank you. Thank you. Nicole Donnelly: deserve like all the awards. It's incredible. Like I... Michael: Okay, stop adding her ego. I still have to deal with her after this is over. Lisa McGrath: Sound like the other half. Jesus. Thank you, Michael: She does crush it. She does crush it though. She does crush it, yeah. Lisa McGrath: Nicole. I appreciate that. It has been a challenge. Nicole Donnelly: Yes! Lisa McGrath: but you know what? I'm I'm grateful for the people that I've met along the way. I've done a crap ton of networking. Devil's Advocate is my passion project. It is giving a platform to people that is uncensored, raw, and authentic. And it gives people an Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: opportunity to talk about their experiences, good, bad, or ugly. And it also gives, yeah. Right? That's what I'm talking about. Nicole Donnelly: and their anal glaucoma. mean, you know, it's always that. You got to talk about that. Michael: Sure. Lisa McGrath: Listen, have some anal glycoma and come on Michael: I do it. I I I bugger out. Lisa McGrath: the show. Michael: I do. I bugger Nicole Donnelly: Okay. Michael: out. I'll take off for a couple of days. Go touch grass. Not taking any device with me, no phone, no nothing. Lisa McGrath: He did that this week. I was very upset. I'm not gonna lie. Nicole Donnelly: so yeah but I bet it was amazing I mean Michael: I do it. Yeah, about once a month, once every two months. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: He needs to shut down. So Nicole Donnelly: Mm-hmm. Lisa McGrath: yeah, so my biggest, my biggest gripe when Michael does

that is that he doesn't communicate at all. So I'm like, is he Michael: No. Lisa McGrath: dead? Is he dead? Michael: I literally will be sitting at my computer and it'll just be like, and I'm on a break. Boop. Closed. Gone. Nicole Donnelly: That's it. Okay, so. The longest I've gone without my phone, okay, was like in the last couple of years, like before, you in the last six years, let's say the longest I've gone without my phone has probably been maybe, well, aside from sleeping six hours. Yeah. Michael: It's still there. my god, no. No, no, my god, no. Nicole Donnelly: I know, right? I need a cleansing. I need a detox. Michael: Mm-hmm. Lisa McGrath: So for Nicole Donnelly: I need Lisa McGrath: me. Nicole Donnelly: to go with you, Michael, and we need to do mushrooms together. And Lisa McGrath: God. Nicole Donnelly: then we need to do the sweat, no phone for three days, and I'll be healed. And then I'll come out of it. And then the trough of Michael: Just well, just just just disconnect. Nicole Donnelly: sorrow will be gone. Michael: Well, how do well and this is one of those things, like I mean, like I'm a s I've been a serial entrepreneur my life, all my whole life. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Michael: And I've never really gone through that traffic sorrow because I when do you get the time if you're always connected to either people or especially technology, when do you have the time with your own thoughts? to actually listen to your own answers. Cause if everybody will rush to Google and AI and friends and communication. And if you're a horse and and you're kind of always around in that group and you're in that in that that pod of people all the time, when's the chance to just be quiet and listen to the other side of your brain? Lisa McGrath: So Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: when she says horse, in her, you know, in her wish would be to be a horse, that's how she sees herself. Horses are incredibly emotional and they can Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, that tracks. Lisa McGrath: sense things far before anything else. They that's it's like it's like the friend in the room where everyone's like, I love this person, but the one friend is like, and they're kind of questioning. That's a horse. Horses have incredible intuition. They know within a certain radius whether or not they want you around. So I've worked inside of Equestrian for a long time. I was a trail boss at 17 and then I started working Reiki on on horses. and let me tell you something. I like Nicole Donnelly: Haven't you done, Lisa McGrath: to I like to keep busy. But you know, I will tell you this. It was when I was having a bad day, I wouldn't go to the stables because those horses would know right away and it would just I got I had a better chance of being kicked. So Nicole Donnelly: Mmm. Lisa McGrath: It's like, why do you want to touch me when you're riddled with crap? Like, that's how like they feel it. So whenever I was having a bad day and I had to go to the stables, I was like, nope. I'd call them and say, having a bad day, don't want to come near the horses. And they were like, no problem. And a lot of anybody who works with horses and like really understands a horse will tell you, absolutely, I don't want you anywhere near my horse if you're having a bad day. A lot of those horses where people are like, I just want to go horseback riding. And then people get like bucked off or rubbed off on a tree, it's because the horse feels their shitty energy. They're like, I don't want you on me. Yeah. Michael: Yeah, they don't like you. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: I don't yeah. Bothers them. So Nicole Donnelly: interesting. Lisa McGrath: yeah. So you I I'll be I'll tell you with Michael, what Michael said. I've never had the trough of sorrow either. I was too busy, too busy kicking ass and taking names anyway. So was kidding. Michael: Ha ha ha ha. Lisa McGrath: No, but you know what? I was, it was, I had so many things distracting me between my kids and separation and working and you know, building myself. I didn't have time to think about anything else. It was like, it was like, you're going to do this and succeed, or you're gonna wrap it up and quit your shit. And I was like, Nicole Donnelly: you Lisa McGrath: there is no failure on this. There's no fail. You do it. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: And you keep changing as you have to change. You keep innovating as you have you pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot. Like keep going. Like don't stop. So I didn't I didn't fall into that either, but that might be the apex in me. I don't know. You know, Michael as the retriever, little apex in there, you chase some things. Michael: I see that's so funny 'cause I I well I got there the opposite way. I expected failure. Nicole Donnelly: interesting. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: did you actually expect failure Michael: Right. So expecting failure. Yep. Every single time. Every single time. Every Lisa McGrath: because really? Michael: single decision I make, I expect failure and I expect to have to change. I do not expect Lisa McGrath: So here's a fun Michael: that that that way I do thing is going to stay that way forever. Nope. It is always going to evolve, Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: So here so here's a here's a fun fact. Michael: always change. Lisa McGrath: Numerology. Michael is born on the 26th of his month, and which Nicole Donnelly: huh. Lisa McGrath: is an eight. An eight is a figure eight, which means money comes and goes all the time. There is no succeed, there is no fail. It is just constant. So he'll always have money and he'll Nicole Donnelly: Interesting. Lisa McGrath: so he'll lose money as fast as he gains it and then gains it as fast as he loses it. So that's how that goes at figure eight. That's numerology. Michael: That's why when it comes in I give it to my other. It's easier. Yep. Lisa McGrath: That's right. She needs to make sure it's there. Yeah. Nicole Donnelly: That's crazy. Michael: Well wait, are you are you able to talk

about this new business that you're getting going? Cause Lisa McGrath: Yeah yeah. Nicole Donnelly: me my new business is Hello Moxie. It's Hello Moxie. That's my business. Michael: I'm curious. Yeah. that's the one. Okay. Lisa McGrath: That's the one. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. And it's a it's a leadership development company for women. We provide mentorship for women five to 15 years in their career. It's so rewarding. Lisa McGrath: So what are your Michael: yeah. Nicole Donnelly: It's very mission like I just like I'm living my soul's purpose. It's fantastic. I love it. Lisa McGrath: Well, I love I love that for you. Now tell me, what Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: are what are some of the fundamentals or foundations that you stand on for helping women? Nicole Donnelly: great question. Okay, so I believe that the greatest problem that plagues women is a lack of self trust. I think women struggle with trusting their own voice because they've been conditioned from a young age to doubt themselves and to look to others, aka the patriarchy to decide for them what they need to do. And so I believe that the solution to that is women to develop deep self trust. And that happens foundationally when you practice somatic awareness, when you spend time literally doing nothing and sitting and absolutely just listening to what your body is physically telling you, paying attention to your physical experiencing and getting curious about it. And the more that you do that and cultivate that as a practice, you learn to build your intuition, which women have great intuition, but they've been so disconnected from it because of the way that they've been conditioned. And so that's what I, that's the foundation of our work is how to help women really reconnect with that inner voice that they have that they've lost through self trust. And then the two other, it's all built on trust. so we believe that there's a trust gap that's very apparent in, in women and in everyone really in the workplace. And there's three pillars of trust that you need to build in order to reach your potential. So self-trust is one of them. The second one is relational trust. You need mentors. You need people who are like actually gonna be back you up, teach you, be a mirror, challenge you. They're gonna have your back when you fail, right? So that's the second pillar is like that one-to-one relational trust anchor. And then the third pillar of trust is you need a community. need like peer community around you who's going to be there to help you when you fall and give you opportunities to lead in the group and have a place where you can belong. that's like foundationally what our program, everything we do is built on. yeah, it's very powerful. We had a third party. Psychologists come in and measure the impact of our program when we focused on developing trust first rather than skills. And we saw that across the board, there was an increase on 12 dimensions of organizational health when people

focused on just building trust. So rather than teaching people how to be better communicators, how to be more strategic, how to be more resilient, how to be more agile, we said, nope, let's just focus on building these three trust pillars first, what happens? And what we saw is that when we did that, they increased their strategic thinking, their flexibility, their resilience, their agility, their communication skills, all of it downstream. So trust is the thing. It's Lisa McGrath: Love that. Nicole Donnelly: the root of everything that is, people are so focused on how can we develop all these skills, but there's a lot, there's something deeper going on and it's trust. That's the gap. Lisa McGrath: How do you how do you trust in today's in today's world? Nicole Donnelly: So I believe that there's a formula for trust. I have a formula for it. It has three components. The first is belief. So you have to believe that there's going to be a good outcome. You have to believe that when you believe that something good will happen. The second is vulnerability. So you have to accept and embrace your strengths and your gaps without judgment and without shame. and give others the same in return. That's vulnerability. That's showing up authentically and saying, like, when you make a mistake, owning it, being honest about it. And then the third part of trust is acting. So it's believing that good will come, being vulnerable, and not hiding your flaws and being aware of them and accepting them. And then the third is acting anyway. So I believe good will come. I believe that there are good and bad parts of me and that I'm going to make mistakes and I'm going to act anyway. And then the flip side of that it's reciprocal so it's giving that to others in return and that's how you build trust. So it's how you build trust with yourself and then when you are in relationship with others that's those are the three and it has to be in in the face of uncertainty right so you don't know what the outcome is going to be so it's those three things in the face of uncertainty that builds trust and Lisa McGrath: I love that. Nicole Donnelly: thanks. Lisa McGrath: There is a funny. I just watched a speech that was done by a a lady who I wanna say it's on her page, possibly. Maybe not. Anyways, it's 15 minutes. It is a woman speaking to other female graduates and she is a professor. And it is so profound and so inspiring that I am going to send it to you. And it talks about women who Nicole Donnelly: No. Lisa McGrath: have imposter syndrome and how that is linked to the patriarchy. And she talks about how it shouldn't be a lot of men don't have imposter syndrome. That is more of a female aspect. Whereas, am I good enough? Should I be doing this? And I think that that's where it's and sometimes is a little bit of a hard conversation to have around males because males are like, that's not true, but it's not true for you. It doesn't mean it's not true for me. Michael: It's not true at all, these Nicole Donnelly: Do you have imposter syndrome, Michael? Have you ever felt like an imposter, Michael? Michael: no, I mean if I choose to do something, I mean I could definitely be wrong, but I don't have an Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Michael: imposter syndrome, no. Nicole Donnelly: Have you ever doubted yourself? Lisa McGrath: Well, I'd hope not. The system's rigged for you. Michael: No, I mean like I I not Lisa McGrath: Nope. Michael: always. No. I mean I it can't be rigged for me because I don't have any additional benefits that other people can get. I actually have less than because I don't have all the additional paid programs, the subsidies, of that type of stuff. So I don't think the system's rigged for me at all, actually. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Do you feel like, do you ever feel inferior? Michael: In in what regard? Nicole Donnelly: Like, like, have you ever, you know, like inferiority complex, like. Michael: I I mean there's people who do better at things. Is that inferior? No. They probably have more skill, more knowledge, more applicable ability. Right? And Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Michael: but well I think what happens on the male side is we lack the maybe the empathy at times and sometimes Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Michael: we lack the benevolence, right? Because we're not necessarily doing something to be good, we're doing something to do it. Right? And I think that's where I think a lot of the stuff, especially when it comes to female entrepreneurs specifically. Is there's this feeling that it needs to be benevolent. It needs to be for the good of others. Nicole Donnelly: Interesting. Michael: And does it have to be? No. Because if a plane's going down, the first thing they tell you to do is put your own oxygen mask on first. So maybe you need to be a little more Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, that's interesting. Michael: self-serving, a little bit more selfish, and benevolence can come later after success. Nicole Donnelly: Interesting, Michael. Michael: Just a thought. Lisa McGrath: He's an interesting guy. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, I love that challenge. Huh. Lisa McGrath: Boo boom boom. Michael: You can't get others to win unless you're a winner. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: Michael, Michael and I get into some heated debates. Nicole Donnelly: Huh. Michael: Winners teach winners. Winners teach people how to win. Lisa McGrath: It's not just that. It depends on what winners are willing to do to become winners. So you Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: have to have an ethical mirroring in order to be able to hear what certain because someone might say, I'm a winner, but they're under the radar cheating their way to win. And if you're someone who's willing to skip and dance around certain elements because your ethics are not the same as like mine, mine are very str I'm very straight and narrow. I tend to be very black and white. So it's either right or wrong. And so if to me what you're doing is wrong because you're capitalizing on something

that I feel is not something you should, one person might say, well, of course you capitalize on it. Like, you know, COVID was a thing and I got I had a Costco membership. So I bought 68 dozen freaking things of toilet paper and then I sold it for three times the price. That's how you do business. You know? Yeah, look at you. Look at you. Meanwhile I'm like, screw y'all, I'm a buy a bidet. Michael: Say it's a thing. But I also gave it to people who needed it as well, right? And so I give it away to you. Yeah. Nicole Donnelly: My days are amazing. They have them in Bali. I'm telling Lisa McGrath: Right. Nicole Donnelly: you, like amazing. Lisa McGrath: I love them. Nicole Donnelly: It's like the dryer and... Michael: I I hate them. I hate them. I hate them. I hate them. Nicole Donnelly: I mean, it feels nice. Lisa McGrath: It's pamper, right? Michael: I just feel like I'm losing I feel like I'm losing a water gun fight. Nicole Donnelly: You need to do the gentle version. Lisa McGrath: That sounds like an internal issue you're gonna need to work out, Michael. Michael: It could be an internal issue. Nicole Donnelly: Everybody needs an enema. Like what, you know? Lisa McGrath: If you spray Michael: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: if you spray directly to it, it will become an internal issue. Michael: I just feel like I shouldn't be sitting down there going, no, it's not no, nope, nope. I mean I get it. If it's that if it's that bad, Lisa McGrath: It's refreshing. It's refreshing. Michael: no, if it's that Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Michael: bad, go have a shower. Right? That's that's my thoughts. That's that's real, that's real, that's my family humor. Like if the boys are all we're all together, that's exactly what we're talking about. But but Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Michael: going back to your point, Lisa, is that don't think it's always about ethics, right? Ethics is one thing, right? Because then you have then you're making the assumption that everybody who did well bypassed ethics. And I don't think that's necessarily the case. But I would probably say the majority, Lisa McGrath: Not always, but the I find that people who don't bypass ethics it's a slow burn. Michael: I would say, I would say probably the majority not, bypassed ethics. That they didn't, that there was some ethics involved in that. What I say is is it goes into the empathy category and it goes into the benevolence category. Right. Because if you're talking about things like because then you're getting into things like the raw, raw abilities, raw talents, right? That type of stuff. That's that's when you get things to be a little bit different. Right? Because I mean you have you have two different things, right? You have the interaction model, right? Where you're talking about authenticity, logic, and empathy. And then you have the other side, which is the character model, which is ability, integrity, and benevolence. Right. So you break those down on on trust pillars about how you operate your business or your personality or your relationships, I think that's where men lack is is gonna be in the last of the two, which is gonna be the empathy and benevolence. Nicole Donnelly: Mmm. Lisa McGrath: So Michael and I had came to an interesting conclusion. Michael did, and he called and talked to me about it. And he said, Majority of millionaires share one thing, share a common aspect of why they are millionaires. And it was it was couples that worked together, which tells me that both people Nicole Donnelly: interesting. Lisa McGrath: with both with those two different aspects that Michael's talking about are what really are the main ingredients to making a really successful business because you need both sides to be successful. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: And Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, you guys were coming Lisa McGrath: I think that at the Nicole Donnelly: full circle to the to the yin and the yang and. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: That's right. That's right. So and then not every woman is gonna have, you know, the typical like yang energy. She's gonna have yin energy as well, right? So and then the same with men. Like you've gotta find that balance because there's some men that are just tend to operate on a wave of more of a female headspace. Doesn't mean they're flamboyant or anything like that. It's just they're softer and they have a softer approach and they're they don't want to fight. They don't like conflict. Then you they usually end up with a female that wants to fight. I would know. The apex eagle has a goat. But you know, so but that's where I I look at it where there always has to be a balance and that's why whenever I hear, you know, men and women giving each other a hard time inside of these more male dominant spaces or female dominant spaces because there are it's not really fair because everybody brings value somehow. It's where where you're bringing that value. Like I know for the longest time male nurses were looked down at, you know? And I love the fact that at my children's hospital that my son had a male nurse. I loved it. They actually shared the same name. So I thought it was great. And my little boy was terrified and thought he was gonna die. And having a male nurse actually made him feel better. And I think it's important that children see that there is compassion and empathy, and it's okay to have another male there supporting you saying, It's gonna be all right, buddy. Don't worry. Like I've got you, I've got you. And it's not their father, it's not their uncle, it's not someone saying, you know, rub some dirt in it, walk it off, spit in it, whatever. There's someone. having true compassion, caring for our children that are in the male fe that are in the male, male, that are male in the female sector. And no different than females being in the male sector, because I know I am. I've been working in trades for a long time. And I mean, I've gotten everything from like some like the men are talking. We'll get to you. It's

okay, sweetheart. You don't, you know, it's a good thing you're pretty. you know, there's all these little things that you get told and I just kinda laugh. Now I've got a mouth on me. So it doesn't usually people figure yeah, right? Right. Nicole Donnelly: No. Michael: It works. Lisa McGrath: It does you know what? I find you get a better response when you speak their dialect of asshole works every time. So they do. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, they respect you more. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: And especially when you can take a joke. Michael: So I hang on, but Lisa, it's not it's not asshole. Just that's how that's how we men communicate. Most men will communicate through cutdowns. Cut downs, attacks. Lisa McGrath: Listen, I get called an asshole daily, Michael. Michael: shut up. We'll turn that into a clip. Lisa McGrath: I do. Michael: We'll turn that into a clip and I'll get yelled at. Sorry, it's one of the things we're Lisa McGrath: Yeah, you will. Michael: doing on social media where like I'm putting in debate. We're like if you don't watch the whole thing and it just goes to that and goes, shut up and we just end it there. Nicole Donnelly: You Lisa McGrath: Rage bait, all the women they'll be like, my god, who's this loser? Michael: Yeah. But I one one side question though I want to ask you, Nicole, is how do you how do you teach someone to trust themselves? Like how do you trust yourself? Lisa McGrath: Yeah, it's a good question. Michael: Like, is it one of those things that it's it's a learned behavior, it's a practice behavior, is it academic behavior? Nicole Donnelly: it's totally practiced. Yeah, it's literally through somatic experiencing, like literally sitting outside and saying, my gosh, I'm just going to pay attention to what my body is telling me right now. What is my breathing like? I'm feeling a pit in my stomach. What is that pit telling me? Getting curious about it. And as you get curious about it, start to learn, your body is teaching you, your body is telling you through that somatic experience what the truth is of whatever situation that you might be facing or problem or whatever it might be facing, I feel a bit in my stomach because this happened or that happened. Okay, well, what does that tell me? I need to do move in this different direction, right? Like, so that's it's like, it's through listening and paying attention to the body. So, like, I find it very interesting, because historically, I talk, I talk about this in my TED talk, historically, people trusted and really honored our physical experiencing until Descartes came along and said that the mind was basically, our cognitive, our mind, that was the superior way of form of intelligence. That was like, changed the whole historic feeling of our bodies. And once he came and said that, everyone just felt like your physical experiences were completely inferior. Like it wasn't to be trusted. You needed to mind over matter, you know, like we hear that all the time, right? But really, there's so much wisdom in our bodies that we've been ignoring that if we really truly took the time to stop and listen to it, it's a great teacher. My body has taught me things that my mind could never teach me, frankly, that I would have never known if I hadn't really been practicing and paying attention to it and led me down past that. were the right path for me that I would have never known if I wasn't actually tuned in and had practiced it. So it's very much a practice. It's not something where you learn it from a textbook. You literally have to feel it in your body and pay attention to it, you know? Michael: So if somebody if somebody were listening to this right now, what would be something that they could do after this podcast is over, because listen to the whole thing, is what's something Nicole Donnelly: Yes. Michael: that they could do to get into that practice to prep themselves Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Michael: for going out eventually and going, hello, Moxie, I'd like to do this. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, so literally you just find a place that's like a safe place for you and just sit and literally do nothing. Literally don't there's no agenda you don't need to do like practice deep breathing exercises or literally I feel like we are so wired as humans not wired we're conditioned to just always be going going going going going going all the time and the biggest flex is to actually like do fucking nothing, like literally sit and don't do anything. And that's okay, like that's the thing. That's it. There's no Michael: Is it? Nicole Donnelly: formula. There's not like, I'm gonna sit there and then I'm gonna do this like box breathing exercise for like 10 minutes. And then I'm gonna do this yoga, you know, it's just what if you just sit there and don't do anything? That's what it is. Lisa McGrath: Michael, you look like you're Michael: Yeah, Lisa McGrath: struggling. Michael: because I've had this conversation with a lot of women before, and I find it fascinating that a lot of women don't know this exists. And and I was fascinated that no woman has this either, which is men have what's called a nothing box. Right? And you can ask almost every guy about this. Like when they say we go, like, what are you thinking? And they say nothing. What were you looking at? Nothing. It literally Lisa McGrath: It's true. True. Michael: is nothing. We are sitting there and I'm looking at the space between me and the wall with zero happening up here. Zero. Zero thought. Lisa McGrath: True. It's a thing. Michael: And this apparently is not a thing that women have. You guys do not have this spot. You'd have this, you don't have a nothing box. And I'm like, what? Lisa McGrath: No. We have express routes. Yeah. Men have boxes. Nicole Donnelly: No, we don't. It's yeah. Lisa McGrath: We have wires. Yeah. Yeah. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, it's true. Michael: I kinda feel like it's the fishing it's the fishing reel that popped off. And you're like, where do I

start? Lisa McGrath: Listen, listen. Nicole Donnelly: you Lisa McGrath: I agree with you, Nicole, on your approach, but I believe that Bali was a calling to expand on that moxie. Because really, you're talking about believing and and having faith in your blind faith faith in yourself, which a not a lot of people know how to do. So I believe that there is an aspect and an element that's gonna help them physically to release with those vibrations and those frequencies. So maybe there's something there to help you with the trust aspect. I think that it I think it's a beautiful thing that you went there and you got to discover this and see things in yourself. I agree with you. The body can teach you more about yourself and and what it's capable of if you just give it the right things. And I know that being a cancer survivor. So that's what it's about, right? So Nicole Donnelly: Yes. Lisa McGrath: I love that you did that and you experienced it because you got a chance to see a different side. of Nicole and what Nicole needed and what her soul and body was looking for and and got nourished by it while being out there. And just the respect and the the awe that you had for the culture out there speaks volumes of you as a person because a lot of people are like, my God, I don't know why they're wasting food. Me but you But you did it. You were like, this is really beautiful that they're offering. They do it every day. It is, it is tradition. It is, you know, it's a tribal mindset. And it's not just giving to good, it's giving to both. It's looking at the shadow self and the and the higher self. It's giving to both. So that's incredibly inspiring to hear from somebody. Like you, you, you're looking at it like, I just took a Microsoft trip. Yeah, well, thanks, Microsoft. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, I mean, I'm so grateful. Don't like it was amazing. Incredible. Yeah, such like once in a lifetime. Lisa McGrath: Of course. Of course. But my point is is that it yeah, my point is is that it there was more meaning behind it than you realize. You took yeah. Yeah. You took Nicole Donnelly: I think you're right. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: you took a lot more away from it than I think. And sometimes that happens. Like when I went to Mexico for the f first time and did all these things, I was like, it took me a couple of months to really like come into the idea of holy shit, like this impacted me. Like this changed my life. I got a chance to recharge. I got a chance to see the culture. I got a chance to learn things. It was very eye opening and it was very it was really exhilarating to be in Mexico. I really enjoy Mexico. Yeah. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, you know, I have a colleague that I work with that lives in half the year in Tulum. She lives there and then she splits her time in Spain and Tulum. She loves it. It's a great place. I hear so amazing. Lisa McGrath: Yeah. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Yeah. Nicole Donnelly: Well, the eagle is landing in Tulum soon. Lisa McGrath:

Girl, you're so funny. You're so funny. And Michael: I'm gonna be listening to that for the next week. I'm an eagle. I'm an eagle. I'm an eagle. I'm an eagle. God, please don't do that. I wasn't sure if that was an eagle or a seagull. Nicole Donnelly: eagle with the anal glaucoma and the mushrooms tripping out with the pointer and then the horse comes along and with their sound Lisa McGrath: It's a great chat. It's a great chat. Become an entrepreneur. All these things can happen. Nicole Donnelly: meditation and everyone just the eagle and the pointer we just sit there with our mushrooms and do nothing. Michael: Find you know what? Find your nothing box. Find Lisa McGrath: I mean, don't hate us cause you ain't us. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Michael: your nothing box. Honestly, you can find that. It's it's it's my piece. I c if I do that for five minutes a day of just sitting in my nothing Nicole Donnelly: Yes! Michael: box, staring at nothing, it's great. It's great. But I l I love I Nicole Donnelly: It is. I agree. Lisa McGrath: It's a it's a real thing. It's a real thing. Michael: love the branding of it. So I was just I decided just, you know, just of course 'cause it's what I do is just looking at some wordplay of it where Moxie, right? And this is where it gets really, really interesting. Is Moxie itself is defined as courage, nerve, determination, and know-how. But Nicole Donnelly: Mm-hmm. Michael: one word that I really want to take out of there is the courage, because courage can't exist without fear. So and I think what happens why a lot of people don't do something is not they don't trust themselves because they're scared. What if I do make this decision? Now I have to own it. That's the only time your courage can step up, is to say, Nicole Donnelly: Exactly. Michael: in that fear, otherwise, you're not being courageous. We hear this all the time. Nicole Donnelly: Exactly. Michael: Be courageous, be courageous. That means you have to be fearful first. Nicole Donnelly: Yes, there's a great quote I have to share with you. Moreno. OK, she's an EGOT. She won the Academy Award for Anita in West Side Story, 1960. Amazing woman. And she has this amazing quote. She says, how afraid you are determines how brave you are. It's such a beautiful quote. And I want to put it on my wall because honestly, I Lisa McGrath: You should. Nicole Donnelly: would rather be brave than anything else. Wouldn't you? Like I'd rather be brave than rich or pretty or popular. Like, like be fucking brave. Lisa McGrath: Whoa, that's not getting crazy. Yeah. Nicole Donnelly: I don't know. I'd rather be brave because brave Michael: I agree. Nicole Donnelly: means you're doing cool stuff. know, like, yes, exactly. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: I agree too. Yeah, absolutely. Michael: When you're pushing you're pushing the limits. You're pushing the limits, right? Whether it's based on your yeah. Lisa McGrath: You're pushing your limits. And you're, and there's something beautiful inside that because now you're bringing an opportunity of innovation to a whole bunch of other people. And there are like-minded people around you that probably thought of something. And now that you're doing it, they want to jump on that wagon with you and go, let's do this and help you get Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: there because they want to do it too. And people like most entrepreneurs tend to be very inspiring to a lot of people, especially ones that want to become entrepreneurs. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: And that's where you need to have your tribe. If your tribe is stuck with everyday employee people, you're going to get brought down because they're not going to understand the same challenges an entrepreneur has. They're just not. So Nicole Donnelly: Mm-hmm. Lisa McGrath: that's something that I will tell you as an entrepreneur: make sure your mentors and your tribe inside of business are entrepreneurs, people that you can run to that have the same mindset because you don't have to agree on everything. But I'm telling you, most entrepreneurs are not going to enable you. They're not going to be like, it's okay, girl. You're doing good. They're going be like, pick your ass up, stop whining. What the hell are you doing? Why are you calling me? Why aren't you sending out three emails? Like they're going to push you because they know what it's like. They've been there. They've done the grime. They've done the I've gone four years without taking a paycheck. They've done that shit. So they're going to say, you're not giving up because we're not going to let you give up. So let's go. Pull your boots up Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: and let's go. And that's that's what you need to be surrounded by. People that are not going to enable you, they're gonna kick you in the ass. Nicole Donnelly: I so agree. And I have this kick ass advisory board and they, Lisa McGrath: Love that. Nicole Donnelly: amazing. mean, yeah, they're, one of the things that I think I love most about having such great mentors is the way they see failure. Like they don't, it's not a bad thing. Like every time you fall, they're just like, let's try again. Try the next thing. And there's no shame in it. like, if something, if I test something and it doesn't work out, they never, they're just like, okay, let's try something new. It's a whole reframe. I just, that's one of the things I just love most about entrepreneurship is there is no, it's a game. It's like this fun game where you're just trying to figure out the puzzle and there's no failure. There's just, let's try something else. We're gonna Lisa McGrath: That's right. Nicole Donnelly: try it another way. And it's just like, it's liberating, frankly, from like this fixed mindset that I think sometimes we get so caught up in perfectionism. you know, it's liberating to just look at it as this game that you're just playing this game and trying to create something. And, you know, like when you're brave, that's

what changes the world. Like brave people change the world, you know. So, yeah. Lisa McGrath: Yep. Yep. Brave people, Michael: So Lisa McGrath: thought leaders, innovators. You got it. Michael: Don't surround yourself with cheery leaders. Don't do it. Right? Lisa McGrath: Yeah. I'm a cheerleader. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Michael: Make sure, make sure, make sure you're not surrounded by sycophants who will praise you no matter how Nicole Donnelly: So true. Michael: bad you're doing. you know, because I hear this a lot. Like you hear somebody say something stupid, and I'm gonna use this in the female perspective. And I'm sure people crucify me along for this. But you know, like, live your best life, queen. You know what? Maybe somebody needs to tell her that's not the best life to live. You know, like. Lisa McGrath: Say that again for me. Say that again. Michael: Like live your best life, Queen. You hear this all the time. And it's like, no, what what you're doing is wrong. Stop what you're doing. Just stop it. Yes, Queen. no. Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: Yas Queen Yas Queen, go girl. Nicole Donnelly: It's so true. I will tell you my best mentors are the ones that just like are so direct. And they Lisa McGrath: Yes. Nicole Donnelly: tell you exactly the truth. And they don't, there's they don't mince words. And they're just like, this is it. And it's just like, so it's Lisa McGrath: Yeah. Nicole Donnelly: like, yes, that's what you need. You don't you don't need someone to pat you on the back. You need someone to tell you so you can get better, you know, like, totally like, but that being said, Lisa McGrath: Yes. It's gonna kick you in the ass. That's right. Absolutely. And you need men and women. Nicole Donnelly: You do have to learn, you do have to learn to be your own cheerleader. That is for sure. Like I've learned Lisa McGrath: Yes. A hundred percent. Michael: Yes, yes. Nicole Donnelly: like you have to have your own, like literally I have this like my notebook, right? But like these are all my wins and these are all, these are all the things that like you have to, you have to. Lisa McGrath: It's hard though. I know it's hard though to sit down. Like when I sit down and I just rattle off all the things that I've done, and you're like, wait a minute, let's just we're just gonna breeze past that. Like you just didn't do a whole bunch of shit. And it's like, yeah. So sometimes we forget to do that. Even like when Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: Michael and I are sitting down having a conversation and he's breezing through his little multi resume, and I'm like, look at you. I'm like, aren't you Mr. SmartyPants? And he's just like, What are you talking Nicole Donnelly: you Lisa McGrath: about? I just what are you what are talking about? So we do struggle. Michael: I usually say I'm usually wearing shorts, Nicole Donnelly: It's just a golden retriever Michael: so Nicole Donnelly: pointer that just smoking mushroom or smoking. don't smoke.

Do you smoke mushrooms? What do you do with mushrooms? Okay. See, this is how ignorant I am. Okay. My, my, my Michael: Smoking much. No, usually in a tea. Usually at tea or just eat them. Yeah. That's okay. Lisa McGrath: Use unit. Nicole Donnelly: horse spirit animal doesn't know how to take mushrooms. This is Michael: But at least your horse is not Lisa McGrath: It's all it's okay. Michael: wearing blinders, which is good. Lisa McGrath: There you go. There you go. That's awesome. Okay. We are over an hour. So we're gonna wrap up. Are we turning this into two, Michael, or one? Michael: No, I think I'll leave it as one. I mean, it's a very it's an awesome congruent conversation, and I think there's a lot of takeaways. And I think people should definitely go and watch the TED Talks. So the U Cincinnati Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Michael: one is the one I watched. It was is fantastic. I very much enjoyed it. Go hit the website, check social media, that type of stuff. Hit a follow, go check out the podcast. Get to know somebody as an individual, right? And do these little exercises, then go say, I'm ready to say hello, Moxie, because the Moxie does require commitment to know-how. So that means you do have to do the work. So D I get that right? I think I've got that right based on everything I've read. I love it. Nicole Donnelly: Very good, Mike. You did, you got it right. Nice plug. Lisa McGrath: I like that. And then Michael: But I do, I think, I think it's really easy. I I think you can get out of this space of of being in this down space where I think just telling the right people in the right spot because the thing is there's eight billion people on the face of the planet. Nobody has a bad idea. Nicole Donnelly: So true. You know what? Michael: Nobody. Nicole Donnelly: You must be an entrepreneur because you're an optimist. Michael: yeah, optimist. I I would say I'm more of an Lisa McGrath: No, he's a pessimist. Michael: opportunist. If the glass isn't half empty or half full, it just Nicole Donnelly: you Michael: needs a top up. Which is what I say with my glass Lisa McGrath: That honesty. Love that honesty. Michael: of wine all the time. Lisa McGrath: God. So Nicole, I want you Nicole Donnelly: There you go. Well, thank you. It's been a pleasure. I've got to tell you, this has been the most surprising and unexpected conversation. I did not come into this conversation expecting to talk about what we talked about today, but Lisa McGrath: Okay. Nicole Donnelly: I'm here for it I'm loving it. I will have to say this is probably is going to go down as the most interesting podcast interview I've ever had for sure. yeah. Yeah. Pretty good. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: You know, most of most of our guests would usually say that. And it's because we want to get to know you. How can people, you know, understand your product and what you're trying to put out there or your services in the world if they don't get to know you a little bit? So that's why we have conversations and not interviews. Anybody can do an interview. But let's talk, let's talk Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Lisa McGrath: some shop. Let's talk some shit. Let's talk some anal glycoma. You know? Michael: But but sure Yeah Nicole Donnelly: I think we should end there. Michael: but hang on but but Lisa McGrath: Mm. Michael: but how's what's the best way to get a hold of you, Nicole? Do you prefer LinkedIn? Do you like direct email? Nicole Donnelly: www.analglocoma.com. Lisa McGrath: Love that. Nicole Donnelly: No, you can reach me Michael: I'm gonna go buy that domain right now. I Lisa McGrath: You should! Nicole Donnelly: at Nicole Donnelly. Well, she's I'm like, I'm on the anal glaucoma and I can't even figure out what my real information is. You can find me at LinkedIn, Nicole-Donnelly-Moxy. think it's Moxie. my gosh, I don't even know my own. Lisa McGrath: Yeah, it's Nicole dot Donnelly at Michael: I it's just Moxie. Yeah. Lisa McGrath: HelloMoxy dot us. Nicole Donnelly: Yes. Yep, yep, yep. And then our website Lisa McGrath: And then there's Nicole Donnelly: is hellomoxie.us. also speaking, I'm a keynote speaker. My website for that is nicoledonnellyspeaks.com. Yes. Thank you guys. Lisa McGrath: I love that. And I want you to Michael: Nice. Nice. Lisa McGrath: come back once this moves forward in the next six months, Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: Nicole, and let us know how you're doing and where Hello Moxie is. Yes. Absolutely. Nicole Donnelly: I will, for sure. When I get out of this trough of sorrow, I'll come back and we can do a victory dance. Lisa McGrath: You're gonna Michael: There is no trough of sorrow. Lisa McGrath: be out of this trough in no time. Michael: That is that is that is a that is a limiting belief system. Lisa McGrath: Yes. Nicole Donnelly: I don't know. Michael: There is no trough of sorrow because right now the only sorrow there should be is somebody is not getting into their moxie because you're not going to the next level yet. Nicole Donnelly: Michael, thank you for that. Yes, Lisa McGrath: Did you just love this? Nicole Donnelly: I feel so inspired. Thank you. Michael: But she honestly I think I think it's fantastic because I think most women that I that I work with and been around, I think they struggle. That's my hound. Somebody saying He's agreeing. The hound agrees. Yes. Yeah, she's just walking through the door. Yeah. Nicole Donnelly: And your dog is agreeing with everything that you just said, for sure. Lisa McGrath: I can hear him. Usually we don't hear him. It's cause it's probably because red's coming through the door. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm gonna say, Yas Nicole Donnelly: All right, you guys. it's been a pleasure. Lisa McGrath: Queen, you go, girl. Keep doing you. Nicole Donnelly: You're going to be my cheerleader. I don't need a cheerleader, Michael: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: Yes girl. Nicole Donnelly: Lisa. I need you to tell it to me straight. Like Michael just did. He just told it to me straight. Lisa McGrath: I had to make Michael I had to make Michael laugh. But I want you to Michael: Do it. Lisa McGrath: I want you to to delve into the trip you took to Bali and how you can associate and encompass some of those things into your hello moxie because I think there's a missing Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: link that's going to Michael: Yeah. Lisa McGrath: be able to be incorporated inside of that 100%. there's a spiritual Nicole Donnelly: I love that challenge. Lisa McGrath: element. So I want you to look into it and explore it a little bit more because I truly believe that frequencies are a good thing and a and something that Is so untapped that people are not paying attention to because and when you're dealing with frequencies, most people's bodies will start to regulate and adjust or point Michael: Hello! Lisa McGrath: out what's going on, right? So, but anywho, thank you, Nicole. We'll wrap this up because Nicole Donnelly: Yeah. Thank you. Lisa McGrath: Cooper's very excited. So Nicole Donnelly: Yeah, we gotta get Cooper going. He probably needs to go out for his walk. Michael: No, he's he wants he wants he wants Lisa McGrath: He's spoiled. Michael: food. He always just wants food. So I think I'm gonna make some beef tenderloin for him tonight. Yeah, yeah. Nicole Donnelly: All right. Okay. Well, we got to feed. We got to feed Cooper and feed Michael and feed the eagle. So, okay. Michael: Not the ego, the eagle. Lisa McGrath: Minach, well, hang tight for a couple seconds while we can get loaded. We appreciate you being on the show and we'll catch everybody on the flip side and don't do anything crazy. Nicole Donnelly: See ya.